Talkin' Baseball (MLB Podcast) - Is Angel Hernandez GOOD For Baseball? | 825

Episode Date: April 17, 2024

Use code TALKIN for $20 off your first SeatGeek order. https://seatgeek.onelink.me/RrnK/TALKIN  Post your job for free at https://linkedin.com/talkinGo to kushydreams.com and use Promo Code JOMBOY420 at checkout to get 30% off your next order and enter to win free stuffUpgrade your closet with Rhone and use BASEBALL to save 20% at https://www.rhone.com/BASEBALL+++++Timestamps:0:00 Yuckin' Ball3:55 Angel Hernandez: The Biggest Star in the Game24:25 Skip Schumakr Ejection34:40 Blocking the Bases & Kyle Freeland's Injury50:55 Oli Marmol UPDATE Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hello and welcome to talking baseball umpires rules hot in the streets. We're laying down the law today. And a lot of manager talk? Yeah, we're back. That's the future of baseball. Two pitchers. Hello and welcome to talking baseball presented to you by seat geek. My name is Jake Storelli.

That is Trevor Plouffe out in beautiful Los Angeles, California. Wow. City of Angels. BBD is here. And we're yucking ball. That's the new name of the podcast. We rebranded from talking baseball to yucking ball. And we're covering a lot of topics on yuck and ball today.

Man, we got to be honest with you guys. I'll lay it out a little bit, Trev. Our guy, Jimmer for debt slash John Boy, put out an Angel Hernandez video on Jimmy's Three Things. are now our number one video on the channel. So we got to diagnose that a little bit. It's almost like a therapy session with the people to see what's going on. And we did want to talk some umpiring and some of the new rules, some blocking the bases. There's been a lot of going on in that.

Obviously the pitch challenging stuff that gets closer and closer. So with that, Trev, my guy, guy. How you doing? What's up everybody? Yucking ball? You do like a focus group or something and came up with that? Okay. Yuckum ball.

I just got all my new gear. Check it out. Shop.jamboymedia.com. Look, yes, we have a plethora of topics on the agenda today. I'm excited to do that. I'm fresh out of the baseball game. Saw the Dodgers do their thing last night against the nationals. That was fun. Got to talk shop with my boy Joy Menesis.

before the game. Really? Just a great Lehigh Valley Iron Pig reunion on the field yesterday, Chavez Reveen. But I think this is going to be a good episode. Sometimes Wednesdays we try to do like a topic or we try to sometimes have fun with it.

But today was more like, hey, we got like kind of a lot of stuff to catch up on and give our opinions on. Starting with the empires, we're going to talk about like you mentioned at the Kyle Freeland play at home plate. That's going to be a fun one to get into. and then, and then, which may be the most important part of the show for me,

I got to talk about Oli Marmal in our relationship. It's coming. Skip Schuemaker and Ali Marmal. That's Yuccan Ball. That's Yucke and Ball, baby. Hey, well, new episode Yuckin' Ball, Braves win. Is Yuckin' Ball? Is that Southern?

I thought it was like a New York thing. I couldn't tell when you first said it. I don't say that. I think it's Southern. I feel like I can Yuckin's not a word You just made it up I don't know

I think you can yuck it up with somebody Yuck it up that's a phrase It's coming from yucking it up Yuck it up comes from Let's see Oh no Yeah everything that came up is Yuck like gross

Okay Oh there's to fool around And that's kind of what we do Definitely what you do Clown around I'm a yucker. I'm yuck all around. Some other yuckers.

Trev. Angel Hernandez, the biggest star in the game. And that should be the title of his autobiography in a little bit. Jimmy, I mentioned he posted his Jimmy Three Things video. It's going absolutely insane. Insane.

It's got almost. 200K views in one day. It's crazy. The people love it. And I don't, I guess I want to ask you to start. What is everyone's obsession? Is it rules?

Is it people that shouldn't be involved in something? Is it people that are bad at their jobs? And that's like, there's almost like a Steve Corell effect from the office. But he kind of was good at his job. That's for another time. I don't know Trev

I think any time that collectively we as a country can rally behind something whether that's something good or something bad we like to do that so like

everyone is rallying anti-angel which makes me kind of want to go pro-angel which I think I have a take that can go pro-angel here but I think that's what it is it's

Angel Hernandez and Joe West were like Tiger Woods and Phil Mickelson. Like Phil was always kind of in the background of Tiger. Then once this doesn't make much sense in the analogy. But now Angel Hernandez has got the show because Joe S is not there anymore. So it's like even more so about him, even though he's had his moments throughout his long and tenured career. But I think that's what it is.

It's just that we all feel the same way. So it's like fun to get around and talk about, man, did you just see how bad Angel Hernandez was? last night. What's this guy still doing behind the plate? And he just, he kind of keeps doing it. You know, we had the Wyatt Langford at bat, which was just atrocious. If you haven't seen it, go check it out. It's three of the exact same pitches. As Jimmy put in his video, I believe it was the worst strike call since they've been tracking the pitches. That's funny. You know, like people like stuff like that. Umpires, I mean, I guess all sports have. you know, their officials impacting the game.

I guess you could say like basketball referees maybe have the most impact on a game. When you're talking what fouls they're calling towards the end of the game to put the other team on the free throw line. Umpires almost have the same effect because they're, if you look at the numbers, I mean, I think that's like a whole separate conversation,

like 01 to 100, a 2-0 to 1-1, those different counts, what that means in a baseball game. It's not as like prevalent as, hey, you're going on the free throw line, you're going to shoot a cold baskets for some points, but like the numbers are overwhelming. And here we are. I mean, Angel is himself,

and he's never going to change, guys. And that's where, I mean, there's a lot of conversation. It's so funny that this is, this is one of baseball's go-to topics. I mentioned Angel Hernandez became our most popular video. It was over a Joe West clip. We did a couple years back. So all the yuckin ball we do on this program,

and the umpires kind of shine. And Trev, I do want to, um, the baseball side of it that I do think a lot of people end up getting to. And there's something about, you're right, when everyone can rally around something and be like, hey, that's, that's so bad. How does this continue? And it's almost, it's like the next episode effect. Like if you tune into your team's game And you see Angel behind the dish

You kind of perk up You buckle up That's so dumb But I do It's entertainment It changes the game And you know it's You know

Now teams are Teams will send that in your packet of info You get before the series Here's the umpires This is what they do This is the zones that they call I get sent them even now For my broadcasting duties

Like, people want to know background about these umpires and, yeah, like, what part of the zone they favor. Like, that is a, that's a real thing. And I think as much as people want to hate on it, I think it's good for the game. I think it is, as long as we get that challenge system, which I think is going to be here sooner than later, what's not to love, man? You keep the human element, but you can get the calls right, but there's also a human element

because you might challenge it incorrectly. Like, all this is gearing up for umpires to be even bigger stars. Can you imagine, Jake? Can you imagine Angel Hernandez behind the plate, right? And say, like, I don't think he's going to be umpiring any playoff games anytime soon, behind the plate.

Imagine in a game at the end of the year and your team needs the win to go to the playoffs. And Angel Hernandez calls a ball to walk in a run. And your pitcher goes, no, that's a strike. Boom,

hits the challenge. But then Angel Hernandez is right? Like, it's going to just cause all these dramatic situations. I can't wait for it to get here. As much as we have that drama now and, you know,

it's entertaining for us to talk about afterwards, like, oh, he missed this call or made this call. Like, when that challenge, is in. I think it's going to make it even better for everybody. It's going to make it even more entertaining. Umpires are not going anywhere. Like they're just not because I do believe that they are, they can be one of the most entertaining things on the field and I can't believe

I just said that. Isn't that nuts? Isn't that nuts? And you see it in our warehouse games too with our umpires. I want to give one example and then talk about, uh, this a little more. Uh, I just, I brought up Freddie Freeman's career stats. I think Freddie has an argument for best hitter in the game currently. And Trev, you breezed over this, but we have a wide range of yuck and ball fans that, you know, some may already know this, some may have no idea. So let's say there's a 1-1 pitch like you mentioned.

Borderline pitch gets called the ball against Freddie Freeman. Freddie Freeman, after 2-1 counts in his career, is 290, 458 on base, a 966 hitter. You know, Hall of Fame, a Hall of Fame hitter. Gets on base close to half the time. After a 1-2 count, Freddie Freeman is 203, 267, a 600 OPS. So basically the worst hitter in the league. and we still have people like Angel Hernandez deciding on those pitches.

That's Looney Tunes. And like, that's not, Freddie is not the outlier. Freddie is the norm. Like, go, go check. Oh, yeah. Go check other baseball players. You can do league-wide stats with that.

Maybe I'll check Trevor Plouf stats in a minute. Freddy's one, two numbers are decent. What, yeah, exactly. Compared to the league, that's probably, that's probably above average. That, when we started getting those numbers, because, you know, when I first started playing, we weren't getting all these numbers.

And then all of a sudden we got a pack of paper that was this thick telling us everything. It was too much. But when we started getting those numbers, like in the counts, you knew league-wide, but when you started seeing your own numbers, like what am I doing? I would bring that up to the umpires after the abat. Do you know what the hole you put me in?

Like, you know, like you might think it's not a big deal because it's in the first inning or the second inning. But don't look at it. my numbers and put a face like that. I've bebes made a noise and now I'm looking bebes if you want to. Yeah. So I like to end on a positive note.

Right. So Triv, one, one two counts, 141, 151 231 slug. It's a 382 OPS in your career. Is that real? Hold on. So that's, I was doing after, that's in a one two

count specifically. Oh, yes. Either way, they don't get boosted a lot more. The stat I use for Freddie, actually... After one, you're better. 559 OPS. So Freddie was a 600. But yeah, the stat I used after 2-1.

After 2-1, Trev, you weren't known for your on-base percentage. It's that power. If you got a 2-1 count, you were a 378 on-base. Hey. 788 OPS. So that one pitch, man. That's that's, that's, that's, career altering. You get a good year.

Yeah. No kidding. I mean, it doesn't happen all the time where it's an umpire that gets you in those counts and whatnot. But I do, I do think like the challenge system that's coming is going to be great. And I didn't, I guess I didn't think about this. Not that I didn't know. But when I saw Paul Skeens on the mound challenging pitches, I was like, oh man, that's a hitter's worst nightmare. Guy calls ball four. You start taking your stuff up. Hey, man, just worked a nice of bat right there. heading down to first base all of a sudden the guy taps his head. They show on the Jemotron and you strike out in front of everybody like.

It's tough. Stop. Stop. Trev. I want to talk about this more. And especially with our buddies over at LinkedIn. Maybe you're looking to hire, I don't know, new umpires for your league. Maybe LinkedIn.

Were you LinkedIn famous for a while? I do well on LinkedIn. My Jessica does well on LinkedIn. There's some John Boy Media. I love LinkedIn. Send your requests. I will add. LinkedIn wants you to know if you're adding to your small business,

you will find the quality professionals you want right there on LinkedIn Jobs. LinkedIn Jobs has the tools to help find the right professionals for your team. It's not just a job board. It helps you hire professionals. You can't find anywhere else. I mean, a lot of people, over 70% of LinkedIn users don't visit other job sites. Like, LinkedIn is the guy. LinkedIn's the one-one.

So 86% of small business candidates get a qualified candidate within 24 hours. So if you're looking to hire, LinkedIn jobs is where you want to be. Post your job for free at LinkedIn.com slash talking. That's LinkedIn.com slash talking to post your job for free. There's a link in the description. Trev, I was laughing at a couple things. One, umpires for clicks. Jeff Passing, Kenny Rosenthal in the past 24 hours have gotten their

umpire takes off it's insane how much a part of the game are something that we have talked about in the past um you mentioned that when we get that challenge system um we've compared it to tennis before tennis is challenge system when it cuts to that 3d view that's probably the most electric moment in tennis right now besides like a great rally so yeah those pitcher challenge or hitter challenge calls and i i do love that you open with our guy paul skee because that went around the internet the other day. He just throws the pitch, gets called a ball, taps on his head, strike three, you're out.

And I saw the first look of fear in your eyes because it's like, you know, for everything we've talked about, there's, you know, I think baseball people are pretty, I don't want to say basic in a mean way. I think it's just we enjoy the sport, man. It's on for six months. You can deep dive in every pitch or you can have it on in the background.

It's baseball. That I, I, if, I think baseball people for years have just done it like, well, it's going to balance out. Your guy's going to get some calls.

The hitter behind you might get the call. You might not tonight and tomorrow it'll flip. Where it feels like that's changing. And I saw a little look of fear in your eyes when talking about if pitchers, can challenge. It's just, yeah, I mean,

you take the, you take the good with the bad, they balance out. Because sometimes, you're going to win and sometimes you're going to lose. I mean, that's one of the great joys of being a hitter is when you know that you're out and all of a sudden you're like, should I start walking back to the dugout and then you don't hear anything?

You're like, oh my gosh, I'm going to go to first base as fast as possible because that was a bad call. So you do get those from time to time where you are obviously benefiting from a bad call. but just that moment that a pitcher would do it you're going to see guys praying. I don't know, like you're going to be in a batter's box like this. It's going to be crazy. And I know the other part of this conversation that we sometimes stumble into,

getting to the ABS system in challenging balls and strikes, the pitcher manipulation part of it, man, I know that's something you've always lived in fear of. And I do wonder what that product looks like. And I don't know if we have someone that's... I don't think we're going to get to that. I don't know. I don't think we're...

I'm not saying we're never going to get to that. But I think there's going to be major pushback on that for quite some time. That's going to be a while before we just go full automated strike zone. Oh, I agree. But do you think the challenge system might be en route sooner than later? I think maybe, like, for pitchers, if they're being taught like, okay, this is where that zone is and you get ahead in the count like 02, like why wouldn't you just try to throw some weird, you know,

ephist type, you know, curveball at the top of the zone or, you know, maybe something the opposite way down at the bottom of the zone just trying to clip these corners. I mean, I know that's what you're trying to do already in an O2 count is live on the peripherals. But like, I think there is an aspect where you, could catch a plane in this system that's not typically called by a regular umpire. That's, that's kind of the hitters pushback on it, you know, already is, man, like, what kind of zone are we using? Like, we need to know the zone because you can't just have this new thing and all of a sudden

it completely changes where we're looking in, you know, in the zone. So it's going to be, I just think there's going to be so much, well, I'm wondering, when they're going to try it out. Like, is it going to be like in spring training for a year? Right. Everyone kind of get used to it. Then during the year we won't use it. And then, okay, let's do it again in spring training the following year.

And maybe then we implement it. But I don't think you can just blind implement it until you have hitters and pitchers kind of like understand where that zone is. I know a lot of guys have been using the minor leagues, but there's a lot of guys in the big leagues that have never used it. So I think there has to be some sort of grace period with it. I guess maybe they'll just give one spring training, but that to me maybe isn't enough.

Well, it's interesting for the veterans, right? Because you see Paul Skeens used to it. Yeah, he's used to it. And a lot of guys are, the younger guys are. And we've seen that with some of the base running rules and things like that. The guys, you know, when you get that programmed into you at the minor league level, you know, it becomes a funnier thing for the veterans and having to adjust. And I know we want to talk some more rules blocking the bases and things like that.

that, again, the veteran adjustment to that is going to be trickier. It's going to be a lot trickier. Can I segue us into our next topic? I want to close one thing off on Angel Hernandez because I said it before the show. And actually it's about umpires in general. The fact they are a part of the entertainment of the game,

and I mentioned our warehouse half-jokingly half-not because they're very loosely umpiring or refereeing the game. They are there for entertainment value. It's a lot more Savannah Banana style, which again, Savannah Banana is one of the stars of the game is usually the umpire behind home plate that does splits and stuff. He's got some moves. He dances.

That's my backup career plan. There was an umpire a couple nights ago that I really liked his strike three call. It was the very basic. He did the drop step forward. And I liked it because a lot of guys that turn to the side, that feels a little more showy. But with the drop step, it's some basic footwork, one, two, and then he punches straight forward.

And it's like, I was just like, I like that. And then I just ran through the whole process of, if you want to become an umpire, A, how many guys went into it with their dream? Strike 3 call, probably a chunk. A lot. A lot of them. But Trev, then I went the other way because there's probably a chunk that messed around to try

to find their best strike three call. And they put in their work in the minor leagues. In some nights, they were like, I'm going to try out a different strike three tonight. And how much they... In their hotel room? Yeah, how much they enjoyed that. And it's kind of gross. But, dude, it's the entertainment of a baseball.

game the umpires a big double play and they punch them out or when they hesitate to make the call it's a massive part of the entertainment value of baseball your eyes jump to them i told you guys before the show i mean this is kind of the you know my segue into our next topic but you know another reason why we're we're actually being serious why umpires are good for baseball i mean there's nothing better. There's no louder pop in a stadium than when a manager goes out there and gets in an umpire's face and then finally gets tossed. Whether it's the visiting manager arguing and you get a chorus of booze

raining down on him or your home manager going out there and firing the boys up the way Skip Shoemaker did. And you get this crazy. I mean, I saw it firsthand because I was played for Ron Gardner. and hire who, you know, got ejected, I mean, probably more than anybody during his tenure, I would assume, because he got ejected all the time. A lot of times he just didn't want to watch baseball that night. He's, I'm over it. We'll get research on Ron Gardnery's ejections. I don't know about today's shows, but yeah. Okay. But like stuff like that, like crowds love that. And we're in baseball is an entertainment business.

We can't take that out of the game. We just can't, man. It's too good. I mean, dude, I don't know if we'd have a company if it wasn't for that, right? Like some of our biggest videos are Jimmy reading the lips. My asses in the jackpot. Like just think about all the, you know, these guys are savages in the box. Like so many of our greatest moments, you know, that Jimmy's done have been because of that. And fans, like you mentioned, Jake, they just, they kind of can't get enough of it. So, like, we can't get rid of this aspect of the sport.

So, you got a note from Beaver, seventh all time with 84-e-jew. but during his time, I'm telling you he's got to be number one. And Bruce Bochy is currently three behind is the only guy who's a threat to pass him right now. And yeah, the others that overlap, Tony LaRoucces ahead of them. They had some overlap ears there.

That's so good, man. There's some Tori overlap, but... So Skip Shoemaker, if you didn't see, managing the Marlins, Bomell calls for a righty out of the pen allegedly and then out walks gosh I'm going to mess this up

Tyler Rogers because they have both Rogers and one's a lefty and one's a righty Tyler Rogers is a lefty my former teammate walks out of the pen all of a sudden Bomell's like hey no no no I wanted the righty

so the umpires go walk back out there said no you're not the guy in and they signal for camilla duval who had not really been warming up right at the time so rogers long walk back camila throws a few more pitches and then all of a sudden he's able to come in the game get his full allotted amount of time the check him he comes in the game and skips going nuts on this getting in last diaz's face saying basically just arguing the whole thing then after the game he kind of clarified what he was arguing. First of all, he said, well, you know, he signaled and a wrong guy came out, he should be in the game. But if that's not the case, because Laz Dia said, well, actually, if Bowmel immediately

realizes that the guys made a mistake, they allow for that for the change. But Skip's point after the game was, well, then we should at least, you guys mess this up. We should at least get a 1-0 count because you guys took too long. But because they reset the clock and all these things, they didn't get the 1-0 count. He came into pitch. He got his extra warm-ups. Skip after the game also was saying, like, well, he shouldn't have gotten that time to warm up,

which I don't agree with. I'm like not trying to, like, guys, like, relievers need to warm up. You know, like, I understand that. I do agree with Skip, that it should have been a 1-0 count. Instead, the next pitch is a strike that the catcher drops on a stolen base attempt,

and then Skip gets thrown out because he wanted to get thrown out. But, you know, I think that was an interesting part of the game because afterwards they asked Las Diaz about it, who was the home plate umpire. And he says, I got to go to the upper echelons. I got to go to the top to the boss because we don't have a rule about that. Which to me is like, I don't know if anything's come out after the fact.

Like there was no rule about how to address this. If the wrong guy comes out of the pen, Like that seems like that would be something that would happen It has happened before So how was there not a rule about it? Yeah, I mean I This one's a little odd for me Because like you said, Skip Shoemaker

Getting getting tossed at the end I mean the Marlins For teams that had Some genuine forms of hope this season Like they're kind of the number one loser Currently in this MLB season That it felt like there was some frustration attached to that.

For years, it's always felt like however they signal righty-lefty and whoever comes out has to pitch with the emphasis on player injury and stuff. Like, that's the number one defense here, like with guys having to be warm and stuff like that. But this has, again, like you're saying,

Rogers was warmed, Oval was not. this is kind of the opposite effect. I don't know. I kind of get lost in it, man, because... In my head, whoever comes out of the pen has to pitch. So what do you think the rule should be? Like, if they step on the field?

Yeah, if he comes out of the pen, he's the guy that comes out of the pen, he should have to pitch. Like, you messed it up. And, like, you know, he was already warming up, so he's not going to get hurt. But like, I kind of agree. You got to pitch.

If you step on the field from the bullpen. you're in for three batters. You're in for three. Or, you know, it's the end of the inning. But, you know, Gabe Kapler went through this with Holy Milner when he wasn't warming up and he just called for like a lefty and they're like, nobody's warming up. That's a lefty. Yeah. And here, and so he had to come in.

But this one to me was a little bit more clear. Like, I think Rogers should have had the pitch. Although, you know, you can go and say, well, Beaumel signaled for a righty. But if you mess up, shouldn't there be some sort of. penalty for it. That's why I said at least the 1-0 count. But in my mind, now that I'm thinking about the situation

more, like, Rogers probably should have the pitch. And if we don't have a rule, like we're trying to figure out a rule now. You really like the C.B. Buckner quote. The Las Diaz. Las Diaz, excuse me. Can we get it up? I don't know if I have it in my notes or not,

but it is an interesting, interesting quote. they did you oh no you have a lasd the i trev when you type in las diaz quote into google you refer to google top top thing is trevor plu from last year it's me what did i say are we all just are we just umps for clicks what is this i mean that's like on twitter i don't las diaz points out the biggest flaw in MLB umpiring and he didn't even mean to. Players are held responsible for their careers regardless of injury or just playing poorly. If you don't perform, you're gone. Umpires aren't held to that standard and it's been showing a lot lately. I mean, that's the truth. Everyone

knows that. Why can't I find the Las Diaz quote? I don't know. You were so jazzed up about it. I'm sorry. I'm going to look for it right now. See, you don't have it. Anyways, a weird one. Umpires affecting games, it's not going anywhere people, and I don't think it should because look it, we have so much fun talking about it, and yeah, you might in the moment get heated. I think that's the thing. We just got to clear up the game-changing

aspect of it. And a lot of that gets cleared up with the reviews, with the challenge system on the strike zone. The more and more we get into that and have that ability to challenge plays, I think the better the game will be, but we can't

lose the umpires, man. We just can't. And think about their uniforms. Like, we could just make these guys dress in silly things. Like, I think that's maybe something we should look into. I mean, it's honestly, the, the biggest thing is just a step further in accountability. And I think it's the balls and strikes. Like the video replay reviews, if you miss a bang, bang play. But again, man, I, I play the bang bang play guessing game when I'm watching a game. And I get it wrong a chunk of the time. Oh, yeah. Like a chunk. You're also not right there. You need to position yourself.

They're listening for sounds of when the glove hits the mid and they're watching. Like, I get all of that. But still, it's a tough ask where especially balls and strikes and some of these guys aren't young pups that I'm excited for the pitch challenging. And I'm wondering actual timeline. I know, I think Passon said like 25 might be in play at the Major League level. I mean, we'll see. That's next year.

In my head, that was two years from now. But I need to catch up a little bit. I mean, Major League Baseball, that's the rule in place. They can propose a rule. MLBPA can say no, and then a year later they can implement it anyway. How funny is that? That's a bad system. When did we agree to that?

Let's go research that one. Treve, I might have some good news for you because we mentioned Skip was running hot. We got to talk about your boy, Ali Marmal, a little bit. I still want to talk about blocking third place. Plus, we had the Kyle Freeland injury, which was a weird one. and Trev, you didn't know about this. Cushy Dreams is back. Because no, it's coming up this weekend, Trev?

I do, actually. 420. I think I'll be in Vegas for 420. That's a mix of Saturday. I did know about this because Cushie Dreams sent me a nice hair package. Hey, hey! Cushy Dreams. You know what?

I'm going to give them credit. where did the phrase 420 comes from, they asked. They said, is it Jake's Little League batting average? Might be a little low. Whoa. Yeah. However it started, it's a real holiday on April 20th, and we're celebrating with our friends from Cushy Dreams.

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store credit, bang. Jeez. Could be you. So go to cushy dreams.com. Use promo code John Boy 420, 30% out of check out, check out, and get entered to win free stuff. So, Treve, I guess, do we want to keep it with your guy, Ali, right now? I think maybe I want to end with that, because I feel like the other stuff we want to talk about, the Kyle Freeland and, you know, the Glaber Torres, Oswaldo Cabrera play, kind of like the blocking

the base thing that kind of coincides with umpires and rules and stuff like that. So let's stay on that. I need to push my shades down because I'm getting blasted in the face. I don't look good. I don't like why I don't look good. Clip that. So for anyone that doesn't know or just a reminder, blocking the bases is out in baseball. And we've seen a couple interesting examples of it. Because I think initially your head jumps to home plate, plays at the play. catchers blocking the plate that was coached for years. And I think kind of credit to the catchers, I feel like they've done a really good job of trying to not push the boundaries

slash the way people's, people's, the way people run the bases from third base, it is natural that there is a natural lane that gets created. If you come in wide around third base and wherever the catcher is going to catch the ball, there should be an appropriate lane for the runner to come home. And obviously there's been some borderline plays at the plate, but I don't know. I don't think there's catchers trying to push the limits on it because they don't want to get a huge out.

If you get an out at home plate, that's a game changing out. They don't want to be called for blocking on that. I think we've seen a couple weird ones. Juan Soto got thrown out at first base from center field, where he was trying to get back, and the first baseman was in front of them, and it kind of looked like blocking. but didn't get called.

And then, yeah, the other example that I have, and I'm sure all of your teams have example and let us know ones that stood out or didn't stand out. Runner on second, ground ball to second base. Runner goes for it. Glaber tries to throw them out at second. Aswaldo catches it, and he's trying to not block the bag, and he's kind of in front of the base.

And the runner kind of does a good creative slide, and he gets in there. and it's definitely, like you've talked about, Trev, a couple years ago, I think his Waldo would be at the base, probably with his foot blocking the entire base. I think the throw would have beaten it significantly enough. It's probably an out. Now it's just a normal play. Runner is safe.

Blue Jays were set up for a rally. That, I don't know, we're all adjusting to this rule, and I think you've kind of been the most hell-bent on. it because you've been in the infield and you've seen people coming in with their spikes and normally that's your solution that where where do we go from here and then the kyle freeland play like you mentioned that play had a little bit of it and it's just scary we've got a pitcher running the bases so take that take that where you why is that why is that scary it's crazy to think like you can't run the bases i get whatever um he ended up dislocating a shoulder on this thing

but blad black came out and was like cow freeland's an athlete what are we doing it's like He's a pitcher. Pitcher. You get that pitcher. Yeah. I'm surprised. I don't think you can wear a puffy jacket anymore. I think that's against the rules,

but I'm surprised he didn't put one on anyway, just for old time's sake. This rule, yeah, the blocking the base rule around, you know, first, second, and third is new for this year. And it's basically, and for some reason they said they saw an egregious amount of blocking the basis, like dropping a knee in front of the basis. That's been going on forever.

So I don't know if where, they got that. But I do know it was spearheaded by base runners that wanted this play. There's some good Andrew McCutcheon quotes about it. And I think it's been an influx of

people sliding head first trying to, because I think that's the best way to avoid tags. It's sliding head first. You could do the swim move. You can kind of change your direction a little bit easier when you're sliding head first. I don't know if it's faster or slower. I think it might be faster to the base.

But once, if you knew a guy was a head first slider and you're covering the base at second base on a throwdown on a stolen base, like, of course, like as soon as you get that ball, you put that knee down, because what's going to happen to you? Nothing. But a lot of times you end up jamming fingers and breaking fingers. And that's why we see the influx of other mitts around the league. I wonder if those are going to like

Are those going to go away now? They're not because they're swaggy and like You know that's the cool thing to do Teddy's team is they're eight years old They don't even know how to slide head first This is actually causing injuries for my youth team Because they want to slide head first But they don't know how

Are they the least swaggy swaggy thing ever Kind of Oven mitt sliding gloves Started by Brett Gardner and now everyone's got one in the back pocket. Everyone has the use of the nation are doing it. But I am all for player safety, Jake. If we're really breaking it down,

I want the best players on the field. I told you before the show, like one solution, if we didn't want to go this route and letting the bag just be completely open is outlawing head first slides, making sure if you went in feet first, nobody's blocking the base, dude. Nobody's blocking the base because you don't want a metal spike in your leg.

It doesn't feel good. But that's obviously not going to happen. So I don't mind this. It has changed the way guys have covered second base, third base, or what it is. Right now, you're seeing a lot of guys standing way in front of the base, and I think the best way right now to get runners out is to throw the ball up the line and try to tag their legs. If you're sitting at the base right now,

yes, if the throw beats the guy by a lot, you know, you're there and can maneuver and get yourself into a better position. But if it's like more of a bang, bang play and you're receiving the ball so far in front of the base, leaving the entire base open to slide and leaving the outside part of the base. Like you have to go so far with your glove.

You can't catch and put it down. You've got to catch and reach with it. And then you get the swim moves. Like, I think it's, I think it's going to be increasingly difficult to stay at the base, give it all up and then try to apply a tag. When you see guys get thrown out a lot right now, it's those throws going up the line,

like towards first base from the catcher, and now you can just kind of run out there, catch, and apply the tag because you can't swim move your legs, and you're getting tagged on the butt, you're getting tagged on the back of the leg, or even the spikes that kind of come up right there. It might be a thing we start trying. Like, let's get off of the base,

let's go up the line a little more, and just try to hit that note because if you wait back on that ball, not wait back on it, but you're at the base. Applying that tag and reaching becomes more of a difficult thing than just going up the line and slapping the tag down.

So I think we're going to start seeing more and more of that as we've given the runners the entire base. I think you're right for stealing second. Yes. And maybe probably stealing third two. I mean,

that that's very similar. I guess my wheels have been spinning. I mentioned that the throw from second to third that I told you about because what you just described is kind of the position as Waldo was in

but with the runner from second kind of having that outside lane that kind of opened up the bag that the throw beats him but it's a semi-traditional spin slide or just using your chest to stay out of the way,

that I think if Oswaldo got him on the leg, he would have been safe. So for that play, should the third baseman be deeper and let the ball travel? I don't know. The angles are throwing me off. Yeah, I mean, everyone's got to watch the play

to know what's really going on. Glaber comes in on the ball, throws it, throws, it's run on second only. He's trying to get the lead out there. So he throws it to Oswaldo, who creates a lane, kind of comes to the inside part of the base.

But again, that's what happens. he has to reach back and it isn't able to get the guy in time, I think he maybe gave him too much of a lane on this particular play. And if it is, if it is going to be, it's just difficult. It's all by case by case. It's all like, you know, you have to read in the moment what you can do. But I do think at second base, the throws down from the catcher, probably we're going to see more and more, more guys trying to go up the line a little bit.

I think we're going to see that. The other stuff at the other bases, I mean, it's, like I said, it's just who's running, where they're running from. Because when you're stealing a base is a straight line. You're trying to go as quickly as possible a straight line. When you're rounding a base, rounding second, like you're creating your own running lane, and you could be out further, you could be in further. So it's all just different. And which brings us kind of to the Kyle Frieden play, which we do have the video,

which you'd like to show people. But home plate's different. You don't have to give up the entire play. It's a different set of rules for home plate, which is interesting. Yeah, tough timing by you teeing that up because... Oh, Beber's isn't here. Yeah. So maybe pause, pause.

Beebstrev just teed up the Kyle Freeland play and didn't see that you had left. This one's interesting. First of all, obviously it's Kyle Freeland running, which makes it strange. A lot of guys on the Rockies were ill, but here he comes down. Great play. by Rio Muto and Hoffman's a big boy on the mound right there. That's a big dude. And sucks. I do believe Freeland dislocated his shoulder. That's no fun. But if we go back, I think you can slow it down. If there is a replay here, you see that Hoffman is in front. He's going for the ball, which is

acceptable. If you're going for the ball, you can block the base and that is like a discretionary call by the empire. but even here when he comes down you go back a little bit Beebs right to that collision right when they do here you see like even if he wasn't going for the ball I'm curious his foot wasn't planted

he is blocking the entire base right there but it's off of the ground so are you technically giving them a sliding lane because your foot isn't off of the ground now they didn't call this they didn't call blocking the plate right and they review but I'm curious

is it because of his foot was elevated and he gave him a lane to slide into, even though that foot, clip Freeland's foot, to keep him off of home plate. It's like, where do you go with this one? See, for me, and I think with any of these new rules, we need data size.

We need more data and you need to see more plays. I guess for me on this one, I was shocked it wasn't called blocking. And maybe it's just the way the play ended, is not something baseball should want. Let's say Kyle Freeland's a normal base runner, let's say he's Trevor Plouf, and Jeff Hoffman's coming home. You know, for baseball in 2024 sports,

that's a gnarly collision. Like, we're lucky Jeff Hoffman didn't get more hurt. That for me, and again, it's a bang, bang play, and either way, however we get there, We need to teach the pitchers. People are going to be kind of crazy that I'm referencing this again, but we created slapball in our warehouse where when you were shooting,

your feet had to come to a complete stop. Because what we found was people were creating space to get a shot, and then on the continuation, they were running into people. So on that very play, again, I don't know how it plays out 100 out of 100 times. But if Jeff Hoffman got to home plate and kind of stuck it and then did a slap tag down, it may have been a clean normal play.

And I guess for me, Kyle Freeland, as the base runner, did what any base runner would do. Go home. Try to score, go straight home. The only thing that can be changed on that play would be the pitcher. And I think there is a world. that if you taught Jeff Hoffman or pitchers to come home, you kind of got to stick it before home plate and do a slap tag.

I think you still could have gotten Kyle Freeland out and avoided contact. But I don't know. Is this an outlaw? I don't hate that, but he was late. So he was just coming in, getting the ball. So technically he got in the way going for the ball, which you're allowed to do.

Right. I guess for me. But it was his fault. If you're baseball and you're trying to solve this, you just start out with Hoffman broke late. Okay, so there's either a wild pitcher passball and then Hoffman breaks late. And then it seems like the base runner

is getting penalized. I mean, he's putting his body in harm's way as well. Like you can't just take this rule and say, all right, every pitcher just wait a little bit and then come diving in to catch the ball and block the base completely because you are going to get damage doing that. But in this particular play, I mean, yeah,

like he came in hot right there. And I don't think he was trying to, like, run into anybody or block the base on purpose, but that's just how his body took him. And look, we know pitchers aren't the greatest of athletes. He couldn't stop. And all of a sudden, you're getting this collision at home plate. But the main thing I'm taking away from this is

catchers have to, to still give a sliver of the plate. I don't think they have to give the whole base the way that infielders do. No. There has to be a lane. I think that's how they define it. There just has to be a lane which means this much which is kind of

crazy. But if you just keep your foot hovered above the plate, can you just block the entire thing? You're thinking the Flamingo might become the future of I'm just wondering because that's what this looked like. I know he was going for the ball so maybe that's why it wasn't called for obstruction or blocking the base.

But also he had the foot elevated. We're getting a lot of questions that I don't know if they have answers. I don't know if the umpires have these answers. At least that's what Laz Diaz is saying. We've got to go back and check up with the bosses, the upper echelons, as Laz would call that. The upper echelons. That's really good.

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Use promo code baseball Save 20% off your entire order That's Rone.com slash baseball Click the link in the description Save yourself 20%. I try to tee it up a bunch of times now. You've been saving the best for last with Ali Marmal. All right.

I mean, look, I'm going to start this off by offering an apology to Ali and Marmal. We put out a clip yesterday. Chris Rose and I were talking about the situation. At the end of the shows, we like to kind of give, like, you know, a fun little thing. And if anyone saw the video, it's Ali Marmal, kind of like holding an umpire back. Then he kind of follows down the stairs. so then all he grabs him by like the jacket collar and then throws him and he's mad at this guy. And our reaction was because we've kind of been all over,

O'Armaul, about Wilson Contreras and how he handled that situation, the Tyler O'Neill situation, the abysmal season they had last year, some of the times he's, the way he's handled reporters. So we kind of just fed off of that. Like it just looked like, man, what are you doing?

like, why are you doing this to this former cop, a guy that I know that works security at the Coliseum? Like, why are you doing this? We kind of went into it and we said, like, you're going to get the challenge anyway. Why do you have to basically not be a people person? We misled our fans. He was, in fact, not able to get the challenge in.

So he was very upset about that. Change the game. So I do want to apologize to Ali Marmal about that. Now, my feelings still stay the same with this guy because I do believe that he's just got, there's something about him when I watch him manage, when I watch him interact with people, I just don't get a good feeling.

But then, yesterday I got a text for my guy, Kyle Gibson. And if you know me and you know Kyle, you know he's one of the guys I respect most in the game. Like, well, his opinion can sway me he's probably one of the only guys that can sway me that's in the big leagues right now truly, truly swaying

because I know the kind of person Kyle is and he hit me yesterday with hey, you guys got that one wrong Guccioni at second wouldn't give all these review even after the security guard interaction happened though he said he was up against the clock

he grabbed them to keep him from falling down the stairs what's he supposed to do so he gave me that whole situation which I again I apologize to Ollie about that and I said crazy that they didn't let him have it. That's 100% on the umpire. What are they doing? No feel. And I said, tell me if I'm wrong. He's just not a good people person. Like it seems like he's always on the defensive. And his response was, Ollie is awesome. I like him a lot. He has a similar

demeanor of Hyde where he seems super intense on the outside and defensive. And maybe not your favorite, but then you get him on, you get him on your team and he's great. Does that make sense? And I said, yeah, I mean, I played with a million guys like that. I hated him. And then you start to have him on your team and get to actually know him and things change. So he added at the end, he's been great with communication and culture. So now, here I am at a crossroads, Jake, a guy that I've kind of bashed. And one of the last times I went out to Dodgers Stadium last year, the Cardinals were playing. And I was kind of waiting for him to come say something to me.

He was giving me some side eye a little bit. It never happened. But I've been kind of hard on him. I think we all have been hard on Oli Marmal. And here's my guy Gibby telling me that's not the case, man. Outwardly he's like this. He's been great for the communication and culture. So guess what?

I am back on the Ali Marmal train. I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt. But I will say this. I will say this, Jake. If I get more instances of I'm not really feeling the way he's treating people, then I reserve the right to change my mind. But as of right now, I'm Oli Marmalls' number one fan. I'm with the Cardinals.

I picked these guys to win the division, and they just got back to 500 last night. So, Ollie, again, I'm sorry about the miscommunication on that play, and I'm giving you second chance, my brother. Yeah, managers end up in a weird spot. The Cardinals had, you know, one of their worst seasons last year, and it also piggyed back off of Schilt. had a really good record with the Cardinals.

And it was one of those like, why is this ending? Like if we're, again, it becomes the value of managers. Like if we're not valuing what Mike Schiltz done as manager of the Cardinals, like what are we doing, that Marmal has one good season, what was it, 93 wins. And then one of the worst seasons, you know, in the Cardinals last 30, 40 years, you know, 35 years or so. that we all kind of want to point the finger somewhere.

And the contraris stuff was weird. That one was just odd in general, but also, you know, Goldschmidt and Aeronado having down years was significant. The pitching being bad, which how much of that, that's not really Ali Marmal's coaching. Cards are currently 24th in OPS, batting average and on base percentage. So again, not really Ali Marlon. You can't do anything about that.

I never got mad of them for the Cardinals being. bad. I got mad at them for what I believe was bad clubhouse atmosphere. Right. And yeah, getting Gibby and, you know, I always loved the way that Marcus Stroman on R2C2-C-C-C-Sabathia's pod when he was going, he complimented Amber Sabathia, and he said the phrase, she's the realist. Like, Amber isn't going to fluff anyone up for no reason. That whole Sabathia family, man, no need. No, they don't need to. You're going to get the truth. And I think for you, Gibby is kind of that guy in baseball.

If Gibby had something to say about Marmol, he trusts you enough and is a real enough person that he would have hit you differently. So the fact he came to you with that. And man, that whole A security guard situation, that's one of those, like, it's our

full circle to our beef with umpires. You just got to be a little better. Because he bumps into the security guard and you almost have a moment of like, oh, we got a couple alphas here. Like, you got a big boy security guard. How's this going to end? And the security guard throws up the hands like, hey, that was kind of my bad.

Like, I was just kind of getting around to do my thing. Like, that's on me. He wore it. And for the umpires, and it's where being an umpire is tough because they have to draw lines. They pretend to have a firm line in the sand there. The play doesn't get challenged when it, you just need to, okay, so it was at 31 seconds? Like we need to have a gray area of challenge If a team really wants that, you got to let it go

But they don't Guccioni too, that's my guy You gotta have a little more feeling that, Chris. Come on. Show me your gooch. Trev, you know, we got Ozzy Albies, Hurt Foot on here, some more Marlins combo But I think that is for Friday's episode

When we come back to you with the series recap. We thank you, people. We're excited for baseball. season might be a voicemail up next week so we might be requesting check that out keep an eye out chick sucks am i am i on skip shoemaker too i think i'd never been out on him we've kind of been in on miami's coaching staff he's robed up john jay my guy peepang oh yeah we are marlin's coaching staff guys we like the coaching stuff goes for