Talkin' Baseball (MLB Podcast) - MLB Umpire Explains How They Adjust to New Rules | 622

Episode Date: March 8, 2023

Longtime MLB Umpire Dale Scott returns to the show to talk about how umpires adjust to new rules in the game like the pitch clock and shift, his career, and some stories from his book!You can purchase Dale Scott's Book "The Umpire is Out" here: https://a.co/d/aWuHIvZUse code JOMBOYPRESEASON for 15% off your next purchase at SeatGeek* https://seatgeek.onelink.me/RrnK/JOMBOYPRESEASON*max discount $50, expires 3/31/2023Get 20% Off and Free Shipping with our code TALKIN at https://manscaped.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hello and welcome to Talking Baseball. Dale Scott, our favorite umpire's third appearance on the show. We have a lot of fun with Dale. Let's get it. Hello and welcome back to Talking Baseball. Myself, Jom and Dale Scott, for those of you that know and you're in our tangled web, it's a big week for us. It's a blitzball battle week, so Trev is flying out right now.

We actually pre-recorded this with Dale. We weren't sure if we were going to use it. week, we're going to have to because we're busy and we're in a little bit of a low, right? Spring trainings, I don't want to say slowed down, but we've kind of seen guys or you haven't seen guys. As I record this, Otani's hit a couple three-run yackers in his world baseball classic tune-up. So, you know, we're going to be falling into WBC and we're going to be feeling that out. And as we get more spring updates, you know we'll be there. But for this week, we've got Dale Scott, who's back for his third time. If you guys heard his previous appearances on the show,

he's awesome. He's such a dude. And we had a lot of fun with him. And we go over some of the rule stuff. And you get it from the umpire's view, which, uh, you know, it's, it's always, we don't stand in their shoes a lot. Uh, so, uh, without further ado, is that a word? Uh, let's get to the Dale Scott interview.

Brought to you by seat geek. Make sure you guys are going. I guess you could probably go to WBC games, right? Seat geek, maybe. I'd assume a bunch of Miami. I assume you can buy. I am there. They got seats there, and that's what Seat Geek is good at.

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You're live. One of my friends was a running back at Penn State, and his running back coach. You always tell him five before you jive. Run five yards before you wiggle. I don't know. Doesn't apply here, but go to Seat Geek, click the link, download the app. John Boy, previous season, 15% off your next Seekeekeek purchase. Dale Scott.

Baseball. We are joined by for the third time author, Dale Scott. Some umpiring and stuff and just, I don't know, kind of a sneaky fan favorite of the show. I remember when we first had you on and we were like, I don't know. umpire are people going to hate that exactly and then you crushed because you're an awesome dude and that's why we're doing it for a third time so how you doing it's the three timers club yeah man that's that's i'm a little nervous is is trev not here because i was afraid i'd throw him out yep he did he said he said he's scared of your strikes well who isn't quite frankly but uh no i'm happy to be here

and actually in person that's great and if anyone hears uh booming noises in the background we are at the warehouse uh dale just strapped on the gear for the first time since Do you remember the, we should find the, oh, that's a home run right at us. Incoming. The last pitcher you called balls and strikes for, and then the next one was someone from our warehouse. That's a fun treat. The last picture I ever took, I left on a stretcher in a neck brace. Wow.

So this worked out well. I'm still on my two feet. When we reached out to you, you were like, I don't know. I don't know. I mean, you actually, I've had concussions. But no, it was a lot of fun. Very different. but it's been that was uh i can tell you right now that was april 14th 2017 wow so it has been

quite a little bit yeah yeah i have i want to that leads me right into 2017 baseball has changed so much since you left unbelievable and i mean just from kind of the strategy of umpires which we or catchers we talked earlier about stealing strikes and the no and the no whatever you have the sticky stuff you have uh COVID ball and now you have the all the all you have the all All the rule changes now. A bunch of rule changes, yeah. And plus we have a whole bunch of new umpires. Yeah.

The staff has changed. I mean, this year. Just this last year, there were seven crew chiefs, 10 openings. So it's amazing how, you know, you're in the game for 30 plus years, and it seems like nothing really changes. And then, you know, you're out just a very short time, and there's a lot of changes. And the changes right now are the most drastic change.

I think we've seen to the sport on like a holistic level. As you watch this and you see what, you know, the umpires have to enforce and people hate it and people, some people like it. But do you get a little jealous or are you saying, thank God I didn't have to deal with this? I'll tell you what. The one thing I'm a little bitter about with my radio background is I didn't get to do announcements. I would have. That's my wheelhouse, man.

I would have crushed that. A little bitter about that. to be honest with you, I'm not, you know, I'm kind of glad. I mean, I'm kind of glad I missed the COVID thing, to be honest with you. With baseball. And then all these new changes, you know, you know, I'm an old man. I'm set in my ways. We have to teach an old, old dog new trick.

No, but it is, it's a lot of, it's a lot of stuff. You know, I kind of joked, you know, you're in the game for a long time and nothing changes. But literally nothing changed in baseball for years. I mean, it was very. rare that you had even a major type change, maybe a minor thing here or there. And, you know, beginning in 2000, when we combined, for the umpire staffs, we combined the leagues and we're working both leagues. But since then, we've had a ton of changes, and especially, you know, more recently. But even in those last 20 years or so, there's been quite a few changes, you know, with, you know, sliding rules and, you know, pace of game initiatives that have been going on for a long time.

And I think finally they got a grasp of it a little bit. It's really going to work. But yeah, it's just, it's amazing how a game for a longest time didn't change, and now it's changed a lot. And pitch clock's been the hottest one. I think we've seen. And I, you know, we talked a little bit. We were having lunch, a little New York slice before.

You know, I think pitch clock, when it's players, umps, owners, to get everyone on the same page with that is rare. And I think everyone kind of is, which, you know, a lot of fans rebelled for that, even our guy Dan Roark, who's as big of a Yankee baseball fan as you'll find, you know, he almost has that edge up because, you know, he wants his baseball. And even we went from Ghost Runner last year, I guess pitch clock, have you heard anyone, I guess anyone's still umpiring or any other thoughts on it that's, when it first happened, we've seen it getting executed to the letter of the law.

Yeah. Do you think that's an initial thing? Do you think that carries over or do you think there's, you know, because we've seen a couple pitchers mid wind up, but the foot's not down yet that they've called it. Do you think when the season comes around, maybe that becomes a little let him play or what? I don't have inside knowledge particularly,

but I do know that when they have, like years ago, we had the no-stop box. We were emphasizing box to stop. And so we called a ton of box in spring training, trying to let everybody know, you know, this is what we're doing. I have a feeling these changes this year or that, you know, the pitch clock. They might tweak it a little bit.

They might tell the umpires or instruct them to do, you know. But I do know right now, and I think most people would admit, let's, let's call the heck out of it in spring training. So everybody gets on the same page and understands what it is. So when the games actually do count, maybe, you know, it won't be as a big a deal. But anytime there's a change like this, I remember in 2003, I believe, is when we had the Quest Tech system, we were now being evaluated by a, you know, a computer, so to speak.

And, you know, quite honestly, we had gotten too wide on our strike zone. I mean, it just had developed to where, I look at, guys, I look at games on MLB Network or something, and I'm, you know, I'm going, oh, my God. The Carrie Wood one is. Greg Maddox has a couple viral ones that are. You know, and I, but I also know,

most of the time no one said a word because it was it was I'm not saying it was right but that's just the way it was and so uh that that was being rained in and everything and and it was an adjustment that I believe it was a 2003 season that that suddenly pitchers weren't getting that outside pitch like they used to suddenly hitters we were calling a little just a little bit lower in the zone and and and a little bit more above the the belt and so everybody had to adjust and and that uh that spring that uh April and May um there's you know screaming going on here and there, as everybody was adjusting. Once we got to that point, though, things, you know, died down. And it'll be the exact, I think it'll be the exact same thing with this, is once everybody understands, you've got to remember, too, any guys that have been playing in the minor leagues the last couple of years have had these rules.

So they're not necessarily new to this. And a lot of them just got promoted from the minor leagues, which might help out. Exactly. They tried to implement the batters can't step out rule, and David Ortiz literally said, go fuck yourself. Like, I'm not doing that.

And no one argued. And also, in the rulebook has said 12 seconds forever. Yeah. But no one's, no one's done it. But I guess that's just, so I guess my question is,

at what point, I know that's not umpire saying, we're not doing this, but can the union of umps say, we're not going to do this? And it brings me to like the sticky stuff checks. Like, that was a much different task umpires had to do there.

Especially when the, guys were doing their belt and making a whole mockery of it. Right. But do you think that, you know, as an umpire, are you, do you have to just go, oh, this is my job? I enforce the law and, and we do it? You know, the union is, you know, consulted and that kind of stuff. For years, the Rules Committee didn't even have an umpire on it, which made zero sense,

okay, because we're the ones that have to enforce it. You could make all the rules you want. We're the ones that have to enforce it, and sometimes that input would be helpful as you're forming a rule. But there is an umpire now on the Rules Committee. It's not so much that we just say, oh, we're not going to call that. That's too tough. It's more trying to shape the rule and the enforcement of the rule that in the spirit of what they want the rule to do, but also umpire-friendly in practical purposes on the field.

Like I said, it's easy to sit up in an office and say, well by God, this is going to be the rule. Okay, well, how are you going to enforce that? Or, you know, in practical terms, we're the ones that need to enforce that. How, you know, and we can give suggestions. I think it's easier to, trying to still stay with the spirit of what they're trying to do, but saying that maybe we can enforce it this way or mechanically we can do it this way, that'll make it smoother and easier to digest.

Have you, and I'm putting you on the spot a little bit, so if there's not one, it's fine. But I'm excited. There's going to be a next step to this where we see, Players, anytime there's rules and anything in life, people try to take advantage of them the best they are. And there's going to be a part of this season where players are taking advantage. And we've heard some different things from base running. Like if you see the clock ticking down and you know that pitch has to go, you might get that head start. I guess for any of the new rules, whether pitch clock or any of the shifting,

we've heard rumors about maybe actually pulling an outfield or out from left field and putting them in that second base shift. Have you heard or thought about anything like that about how the players will take advantage? And I guess is it the umpire's problem to worry about? Or would you be told ahead of time like, hey, we think teams might do this. Usually we're not told like that. But it's one of those things, any time you change, especially, you know, major changes in what's going on, there's unintended circumstances. We got it in replay.

When the guy slides in the second, easy double, the throws late, but they keep the glove on him. And he comes up this right here. That's not why that replay was put in there. That's a cheap out. Everybody knows it's a cheap out. But what are you going to do? He's off the base being tagged with a live ball. So that was unintended.

When the ABS system comes into the big leagues, you're going to have unintended circumstances. I don't know what's going to be it. That's a lot of times unintended means we don't know yet. Right. And the same thing, I think, with what's going on this year with the shift and the clock and everything, I'm sure there will be some creative. situations where they can take advantage of the new rule.

And maybe nothing illegal, but they're taking advantage of this new rule. That's when baseball steps in at some point. They might tweak the rule or tweak how it's done. They tweaked the slide rule and the catcher blocking and all that stuff. From the original rule that came out, they had to rewrite some of that because in theory, as it was happening, it wasn't what they intended. So that's going to happen. I would be shocked if it didn't.

It's an adjustment period. But again, just to emphasize that anybody that's been playing in the minor leagues and the umpires that you're talking about, have seen this, have played under it. And quite frankly, in a year or two, I mean, a year or two, meaning everybody will be useful. They'll be useful before that. But it's a big change now, and that's what everybody has to adjust to. There's a lot of ironing out to do. Right.

We're talking about replay. And I talk about this a lot since I started watching. kind of foreign sports and how they use replay. And I want to know if this is too far against the system that you worked in for 30 years or if you, if any umpires have been asking for this in cricket or even some other sports, if the umpire doesn't know a close play. Just, just go to repo. Let's just, whatever I say shouldn't hold weight because I just go straight to the booth and then

they do it. Is that something you think, as an umpire, did you ever be like, I wish we could just review this way. Well, there was certainly, you know, as a crew chief, and you didn't have to have a challenge for a boundary call or a home run like that. You would just, I mean, let's say I went out on it and I have a home run. I immediately was going in, knowing that I want to look at this. First of all, I know they're going to want me to anyway.

But under my discretion, I'm saying, this is what I have, but I'm not sure exactly what it was. So, you know, it would be nice maybe sometimes instead of, you see it in basketball, for example, a guy will call an out of bounds and then immediately go, I'm going to look at this, you know, in the last two minutes or whatever. Seems like it would be better for umpires to be allowed to wiggle room there on certain plays. And you may be, you know, you may see that coming up.

You may see a situation where you have kind of an express replay type of thing where they're kind of trying that NFL and football where instead of getting front of the monitors stuff. When there's an obvious miss, they just buzzed down and say, hey, that, that was incomplete. The ball, you know, the ball hit the ground. I like that. And so you could have that on certain types of plays. I think you could have an express or an accelerated type replay that doesn't take a lot of time. And it's obvious to everybody that needs to be changed. We'll see if that gets to that. I think at some point they will. You know, replay when it first started compared to now is much more streamlined from our end, in the replay center, because we're

so much more attuned to what we need to do, what we have to see, you know, and that kind of stuff. And replay times have gone down, I think, each year as far as the time that they have to go when they go to replay and when a decision is made. Now, certainly when you have complicated ones with maybe specter interference and you have to award runners, and that's a little bit different. But, yeah, to answer your question, I think I see no reason why that couldn't happen at some point as they get better at streamlining this. stuff.

I think we got to jump. I introduce you as an author. You know, for 37 years like you mentioned. You know, I have been called a lot of things author. I still am not used to. Well, you've combined everything now because you've turned, you know, and I've been reading the book, you left your budgeting career. We've been.

Burgeoning. Burgeoning, whatever career in the radio. In radio, using your voice, that booming voice, to go become a full-time, umpire and now you just recorded the audiobook so you've kind of come full circle the audio book just came out February 28th uh that was an interesting uh my background in radio they they they allotted me five days in the studio to record that i did it in four because i've seen the sorry i've seen the business you know what don't you guys keep the other day i'm good take the fifth record an album you guys sit around for eight hours i'll go ahead and they take up uh but it was fun it was uh it was a

interesting thing to do and and we'll see how how that goes but the whole author thing Like I'd said before, I had no intention to writing a book when I retired and I was talked into it. Rightfully so. I think my story deserved to be out there. And from my book tour last year and all the people I met in person that is so humbling, but that it actually did affect and change their lives for the better is amazing. And it's like Billy Bean, who wrote the forward to it, but it's like he said, Dale, it's a tip of an iceberg. You're just hearing from these few people

There's a whole ton of people you'll never ever hear from But it's been a positive effect So that makes me feel good And I think that's certainly why it should have been written I haven't gotten to the big league stories yet Which I've heard a lot because we've talked about them on the show But you open it up talking about nut cutters And how many times you've been hitting the nut is the first

Not a lot of books start with talking about your donuts Yeah and I love it The books I normally read do So that's why this worked out But I love it because I love the lingo that you don't know about because you're not part of that world. And I never even would have thought like, oh, umpires have their own baseball lingo. It's like, fuck, I'm not part of that world. I don't know what they're saying.

I want to know. So I love that. And then I also enjoyed, I don't want to spoil too much, but I told Jake that he would enjoy this. And Sam, who works with us, she's read it as well. And she said, did you get to that part? When you got to heckle someone at their job. California league. Yeah, by Celia.

The Adams family. They were at every game in Viceroycella, and not a lot of people were. So you heard everything they had to say. And that one day, Tim Chita was my partner. Tim Chita. And we went into this ice cream place in Vizelia. And right when we walked in, we recognized Mr. Adams was there. You know, they owned it.

Of course, he didn't know who we were. We're out of uniform. And so we, you know, let's have some fun. So we got our scoops and we're sitting down and the next people come up. And as he's scooping up, we're saying, you call that a scoop? That's not a scoop. You know, you're better than that, you know, and finally he asked us to leave. And I said, well, are you having an issue with, you know, someone yelling at you at work?

He goes, yeah, I am. I go, well, so are we. We're the umpires. We'll see you tonight. That's like the things you dream about, you know? Totally dream about it. To have that actually, that scenario would be able to set up for you is almost impossible. That was good.

And also the learning about just the Dominican League, the grind of it all is wild. but what a crazy impressive with me is that how young you were and how quick you went from... I was lucky. I was lucky. You know, I went to Empire School when I was 21. I only spent five years in the minor leagues.

My big break, you know, getting to AAA was quick and I just was fortunate there. But my big break once I got to AAA was literally my third game behind the plate was Dick Butler, who at the time was the American League supervisor, was there to watch Larry Young and Tim Chita, who were on the crew, because they had interest in both of them.

And Larry already had his option bot. And to watch those two behind the plate, I happened to be the middle game. Yeah. And so he saw my game on a Saturday night in Louisville that went to five hours, 15 innings. And that put me on the map. They said, who is this guy? You know, I had just come up.

And so the next two series went to Evansville. We were seen by another supervisor. We went to Indianapolis. We were seen by another supervisor. and boom, my option was bought. So I was five plate games into my AAA career, three weeks since being called up in May of 84, and the American League bought my options.

And how old were you when you did your first MLB? I was, I just turned 26 my first major league game. You were nervous as shit. Oh, my God. I put my undershirt on backwards. Okay. Seriously. And Jim Evans was the crew chief, and he's got this real dry, since humor.

And he said, before, you said, are you nervous? I said, no, Jim, I'm not nervous. I'm excited, you know? And then I was putting my shirt on, and he goes, so I'm glad you're not nervous. You always put your shirt on backwards. I said, of course I do. I set the trends. And I said, okay, maybe I'm a little nervous.

So if we have any, you know, a lot of people listen to the podcast that are baseball fans, if we have any young people that are looking to be ums, something that I kind of picked up on about your, quick path and umpire school was not only the mechanics and be making the right calls but you talk about earlier on just the level of confidence you did have or perceived other people to have and and that's when you're 12 and you go to um school they say whatever you call make it with confidence right but you talked about that in the book before even an umpire kind of like that well he was commissioner of his town that's what i want to tell you he was commissioner of all commissioner of officials

of officials sports program wow 20 years old yeah yeah and again that just fell in my lap. I was lucky with that. You know, living a double life that I was doing, I think is what gave me, now, I don't know if that makes a psychopath or whatever, but it gave me this confidence and able to, you know, to come off as something maybe I wasn't, which was a straight male. Yeah. But I got to say, though,

guys, I may have shown confidence and looked calm and cool or whatever. Inside, I was a nervous wreck. Yeah, I put my shirt on backwards for God's sake. So obviously it was affecting me. So, you know, one of the guys asked me earlier, you know, how do you, how do you, how do you, I said, well, it is a stressful job. How do you do? I said, well, it is, but you learn like players do, and anybody at a high-stress job, you try to channel that and, you know, compartmentalize. that a little bit. Because otherwise it'll eat you up. And that's, that's something you, you know,

I had to learn it. Yeah. And especially, you know, when I went from AAA to the big leagues, you know, I thought it was a pretty good AAA umpire or whatever. I got the big lines. I mean, this is a whole different thing here. It's a, it's the game of baseball, but it's a whole, you know, you're surrounded by a whole different. Also got the egos, the veterans, the managers that are lifers, and you're entering a whole new world of. A whole new world. And you have zero credibility as far as they're concerned. None. Until you prove yourself, that's the way it is.

So it's been a great ride, and I wouldn't change a thing, but it's been a lot of fun. And the stories of, you know, your first winter off and meeting your now husband right away is wanting to. Right. The last thing in my mind was getting into any type of relationship. I was finally not working winter baseball for the first time in like three years. And I was getting paid, and I was off for five months.

And I thought, I mean, this is, I'm moving to a new city. I'm going to Portland and... That's kind of how it works, man. You tell people, it's like an old line for movies. Like when you stop kind of looking for it and then it happens and that's... When you're looking for it, you never find. You know, I was... You make mistakes.

But, yeah, that, that happened. That happened, but... But you learn from the mistakes, hopefully. Yes, yes. But yeah, we just celebrated last October 36 years that we've been together. And so it's been, it's been good. I've had a charmed life, I got to say. Yeah, a couple of concussions here.

And everything's good. Is that the second book? Charmed life, Dale Lott? Yeah, charm. Now, you could interview some managers and players. It's not so charmed, probably. Do you have the author's itch right now? I mean, that's, you're telling the story of your, it's a big story.

I mean, now, like, do you have a little scratch that you want to do some more? Or are you like, I'm done? I'll be honest with you. I have thought about maybe diving in again. I'm certainly not, doesn't mean I will. We'll see. To answer that, though, I really did enjoy the process. I have a pitch.

If I was a literary, if we have any literary agents listening, I think that you should team up with a player, a manager, and someone in the booth for a game. And then you tell it from the four perspectives. From the different perspectives. Oh, I like that. Because you have, and we got to let you go. You can do that audio visual too.

Yeah, you've done so many big moments. Like, go listen to our first two interviews with you. You should have seen the kids. I call them the kids. Now I've got my beard, Dale, you can see. That's two months? Two years. They, when Zoe from We Got Ice,

who I think they're about to torture you in a minute, he heard that Dale Scott was for the Jose Battista game, and Zoe was like, started drooling. And then the Grugie Punch game. If you do that from every perspective, all right, so we're in. So we're producing it. John Moy Media will produce that. We'll just get more people on.

Yeah, perfect. I know the right people. Yeah. Well, thank you very much for coming and umpiring a blitzball game, which is a ridiculous thing that I'm excited happens. It was fun, guys. It was fun. I was having flashbacks a couple times. I only had to warn one pitcher, but we thought it went well.

It was a great time. Yeah. Thank you. I think, yeah, we guys, they were going to have you on some of their wiffball. They're like a minute long now, so it'll be a little easier. Well, that would good, because that was a lot of work. You know, it's a lot of standing on. Yeah, we're tired and .

All right, thank you very much for joining us. Thank you guys for tuning in. Go by, the umpire is out. Or listen to the audiobook. Or listen to the audio book. Listen and read along. There you go. By both.

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All right, guys. So, that was Dale Scott. Jake, what was your favorite part of the interview? Me and Dale, so we interviewed an interesting location. We were upstairs at the warehouse, so that was a fun dynamic. We were just looking at a camera in the distance. I liked that me and Dale were standing.

So there was a couple times that we were laughing and had a joke, we would throw bows and. to each other so we got a little physical. So I like that. That's the highlight. I will take away from that. And yeah, man, it's, you know, talking baseball. Sometimes I forget, you know, our Christmas New Year's Week Rules episode was one

of our biggest episodes of the year. Dale Scott in the umpire perspective and everything he brings to it. It's so cool, man. He highlights from the day, you know, Dale Scott. God, he's, you know, been behind Randy Johnson. I think he said he caught, he was the umpire for five Nolan Ryan games. Hearing the We Got Ice Boys, who normally can't control their silliness, they have to let it out.

When Zoe found out that Dale Scott was behind home plate for the Jose Batista bat flip game, he like, Zoh, like, gasped. He was like, what? So having him in the warehouse, man, was a lot of fun. Dale Scott mixes it up on Twitter. What is he? Dale Scott, MLB-5. And he's got his new book.

The umpire is out. And he's awesome. So thank you, Dale. He came out. Well, he came out, and he came out to visit us. But just for us. Like I thought he was doing like a New York City swing or something. And no, he was like, yeah.

Or at least going to use it for like full weekend in the scene. Yeah, he ended up seeing a show and he's enjoying it. But still, so we've got some fun warehouse stuff coming with him. And yeah, like I told you guys at the start, excited to get into WBC as it picks up. And everything is we keep getting more stuff from MLB, a spring training. I mean, we're going to be what, three weeks opening day? Give or take, right? Woo!

Makes socks! Check out our old Dale Scott Epps too. You listen to this far, might as well subscribe if you're not. Yes. Yes. Interact. Comment below your favorite part.