Talkin' Baseball (MLB Podcast) - Spring Training is OFFICIALLY Underway!

Episode Date: February 24, 2025

Download the DraftKings Sportsbook app and use promo code TALKIN Use code TALKIN2025 for 10% off your next SeatGeek order*: https://seatgeek.onelink.me/RrnK/TALK.... Sponsored by SeatGeek. *Restrictions apply. Max $20 discount Book your next trip at https://www.bestwestern.com Coach Trev and Talkin' Jake break down what's happening at Spring Training including how the Automated Balls and Strikes system has been working and how much the guys love it. They also talk about Dustin May's return to the mound and Clay Holmes' new change up! Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hello and welcome to talking baseball. How about this challenge system? We're going to talk about it. What do we like? Also, there might be an ace available for your team. Other spring training. Let's talk ball. Dustin May.

Oh, I'm out. Wow. Don't challenge. Don't challenge me. Hello and welcome to talking baseball. Happy February 24th, which means happy birthday, Jess. Hello. We like that.

My gosh. Hello and welcome to talking baseball. I think 30 days away from opening day. February is the short month. We're going to talk a lot about inches and height, which is going to be just going to be a bad episode for me. I'll just get out ahead of that. Jake Story Ellie, Trevor Plouf, Rob Chiracroko.

It's all brought to you by Seat Geek. The baseball season is underway. way, essentially, or go see a hockey game, go see a basketball game, go flush it out of your system before who, before ball season is here, or go see a concert. It's Seat Geek people. They have everything and they have a 10% discount for you with code talking 2025 at Seatgeek. Download the app, whether you've used one of our discounts before or not. You're good.

Save 10%. Talk in 2025. Download the Seek app. if you already have it, put in the code and go see something. Go see a spring training game. Go see a couple young studs popping off that I think we're going to talk about a little bit. Talking 2025 at Seat Geek. Coach Trev, how you doing?

Jakey boy, Rob, I'm doing great. You know, I'm still getting over a little bit of sickness. If you can hear it in my voice, I'm a little nasly, a little gravely, kind of like, do I sound like Morgan Wallen? Probably not. I don't think so. Um, this is an interesting episode for me. Spring training,

we're going to talk about some of the things that have happened. Some of the guys that have gotten off the fast starts, which is kind of hilarious because I'll tell you this, guys will be like, oh, spring training doesn't matter, but you want to get knocks in spring training. I don't care what people say, it doesn't matter.

I'm just using it to get ready. Bullshit. You want those knocks, okay? Don't tell me any differently. But we are going to get into the ABS system, which is interesting because I feel like, you know,

I'm familiar with it. I understand what it is, but I think we're kind of going to deep dive into it and really give a nice explanation to the people. Because this is something that's coming. Whether we, whether you like it or not, it's going to be here,

not this season, but soon, I believe next year it's going to be implemented. So you got to know it or else you're not going to know ball. They're going to say you don't know ball. And that's where I'm at. I'm excited, man.

I talked to, you know, I talked to Kotuck. over the weekend. He was drumming up at Innings Fest, which is a concert at Arizona Spring Training. And he got me fired up about baseball season. And then we actually brought you up a little bit.

Oh. And so I think it's the perfect time to shout out that beautiful, effervescent flower, Jessica. Yeah. And say, happy, happy birthday, my sweet love. Okay. Careful. Careful.

Careful with that. Thank you. Um, yeah, we got to get to that innings fest. Ryan Dempster, it's turned into a concert and like there's baseball dudes around. I don't, what's that? It's kind of like, he just threw a concert. Like, I want to just throw a concert. Okay.

Incubis was there. Get us on. Wow. I feel like you had a big incubus phase. Oh, for sure. I mean, I literally have, the biggest painting I have in my house is from Brandon Boyd. I mean, wasn't cheap. Nice.

dude. Sheesh. Let's talk ball. And kind of this isn't ball, but it's going to be ball, like you've said. And if you watch any of the spring training action, you've definitely seen some of this. Maybe some of you are coming in absolutely blind. So let's talk about the ABS challenge system. It's been kind of cool, coach.

Now that we've been doing this show for half a decade longer, Yeah, right? I mean, you've seen my body fall apart. I've seen, you know, you turn into just L.A. I mean, just the king of L.A. essentially. I've changed for sure, yeah. You've talked about a political run. The automatic ball strike, ABS, challenge system that's been in the minor leagues.

We've talked about it before. And I don't know, man, like we've, the community. loves when we talk about the potential rules and changes because you see it affect the sport we love and we've seen the base running rules get implemented. We've seen the shifting rules get implemented. A pitch clock. I mean, there is a time when that seems sacrilegious

and now it's just a part of the sport that this is the next one that is coming. And they have it in spring training this year. It's been at AA and AAA. For the past two seasons. So a lot of the young guys are already used to this, and now we're seeing it. It's at 60% of this year's spring training games.

And you've probably already seen some of your favorite hitters or catchers or pitchers challenge it, because that's who can challenge it. And basically what they're currently at is a, you get two challenges and you lose them when you get them wrong. So if you stay hot, you can keep them rolling. But with two and not wanting to miss, you do have to be judicious about when you're challenging

or the count, the situation, where we're at in the game, all of that fun stuff. And yeah, it seems like that baseball has made the decision that this is the route they want to take. Instead, Trev, there was times we talked about going full, aBS, get every pitch, and, you know, every pitch we, turn our head to the scoreboard.

It seems like we're staying away for that. We're keeping it with the umps. And this is the system that we're going to be seeing. And yeah, for those familiar from the tennis world, you kind of get that hawk eye view that they've had for years. The minor league experimentation, a challenge added 17 seconds to the game. So to get a call right, that seems worthwhile. So, Trout, I'd love to hear from you just kind of,

You know, we've done some overview of this before, but now it's like it's getting here. Yeah. So that's, I think the interesting aspect of this is they did try to leave the human element in the game as well. I mean, I think umpires are part of the game. I've always said, I think that some of the best interactions, best entertainment at a baseball game is like, coaches getting fired up at the umpires. Like that gets the loudest pop, dude. So I want to keep that.

I think they made the right decision there and not going full Hawkeye, full ABS, every single pitch. I just don't think that just doesn't flow right now. Could we get there, like down the road? Like, sure seems like that's the way it's headed. I hope that we don't, in my opinion, I hope we don't get there. I think, you know, the two challenges. If you want to add a third challenge or something like that,

or maybe in the ninth inning, you can. challenge whatever. There's going to be amendments to this, but I like the fact that we're keeping umpires there. It makes it feel, you've got to keep some of the tradition in the game. That's, that's kind of my gist there.

But I think for a long time, players have called for this or just some way, because you know, you know, as a hitter or a pitcher, you know there are times where you just, you get screwed. Right. You know that pitch is a ball,

or for a pitcher, you know that pitch is a strike. And the statistics are there to back up what it means to go from an 01 count instead being at a 1-0 count or a 2-0 count instead you're at a 1-1 count. Like the statistics will speak volumes there. And because we have all the information as hitters now, you know those. So when you get into one of those situations where you should be in a 2-0 count and instead you're in a 1-1 count, you know that your percentage of getting a hit went down about 200 points. like that's not right it's not great for you so people have always wanted this um to come into the game and you know they introduced it a while ago in the atlantic league which is kind of the testing

grounds for major league baseball and i think there were some things they have to work out they had to work out with it you know you know i think at first i think the biggest worry was well what is is it the same strike zone for everybody Is there just a box and you got to hit it? And now that we're learning more and it's becoming closer to majorly baseball, we have some of the numbers on that. I think that's what kind of grabbed me here, which makes a lot of sense.

If you want to get into that or I can get into it, Jake, I think the people need to know it. Yeah, I'll lay out the inches for you because I'm pretty used to measuring that. For the ABS strike zone, okay, home plate, 17 inches wide. Perfect. Boom. You me, Rob, combined. The top, so this is where things get interesting.

Because, okay, we've, and this is the part that I've been walking all over myself, but this is what we're doing now, so I won't get into where my brain's spinning. The top end of the zone is at 53.5% of a player's height. So if it's El Tuve, if it's judge, it is a different top of the strike zone, which makes sense. Let me finish, and then I want to see where you go. The bottom of the zone is 27% of a player's height. And then the depth of the zone is 8.5 inches from both the front and back of the plate.

So I see you got a wry smile on your face. I guess that's the information I wanted to put out. Now you go. We talk about height all the time on the show. Yes, a lot. So, so where is this height coming from? Hawkeye measuring you as you walk up to the plate with spikes on. It's not measuring your batting stance.

It's your height. Yes. So is it just saying Alex Breggman is listed at six foot? Right. And baseball reference? That's, I guess, we need to figure that out. I don't know if Rob, you can look that up. I don't know if there's an answer to that anywhere.

But that is, because if you're a highball hitter. Right. like you okay if you're a high ball hitter you'd want to say you're taller because then the strike zone gets lifted up if you're a low ball hitter you'd want to go like your actual height probably

right so the strike zone goes down a little bit so are guys going to start telling the truth now is this going to be the ultimate height truth serum butterfly effect there's always there's always auxiliary action to come about from stuff like this. I'm just curious. I know that sounds silly,

but I'm actually genuinely curious about it. And that's, that's, I think that's where every baseball person starts spinning because, you know, it used to be tied to your batting stance. You know, that used to be the joke when a, when a Tony Womack or a Ricky came up and they were all bent over. And then, you know, you got these guys with the straight up stance, it's even like belly or whoever it is.

Long go. That, okay, so where is it your stance? Right now it's currently based off straight up size. And I know we're going to do some videos from over the weekend to kind of play what looks like a strike, what doesn't look like a strike. And I guess the part for me that's been fascinating with baseball over the years is that we've seen evolutions of strike zone. we you know there's there's those clips from the 90s I saw our guy pitch ninja was posting it that famous levan hernandez game where you know in the 90s the strike zone used to be nothing above the belt yes but if you were around the plate it was counting um which that was interesting and then i think we

much more horizontal than it is now yes we saw in later years we saw the plate come much more into play that you had to be on the plate, but we saw it come up, and that was a little bit with, like, the foreseam, even in those, like, later Justin Verlander resurgent years, that the high strike came back a little bit,

that now we're in an interesting spot, and I don't want to get too far ahead with these clips, but, like, my early return is that, like, the high strike is going to be out for a little bit, because where this 53.5% lands, ain't that high. here's what I'm thinking.

Big guy, Evan Gaddis to me seems like, I think he was tall. It's huge. I don't know. It was just built like a refrigerator. He's a big boy. Yeah, like a bear.

But you remember his stance was so crouched down. Or like a Jeff Bagwell. So spread out and crouched down. That's how you like to hit. But you're doing yourself a massive disservice. If you're really tall, and you get really low in your stance because now all of a sudden that ball might be at your neck. Right.

It's going to be a strike, right? In theory, that's what we're currently being told. So we're talking through this. The listeners out there, you know, this obviously isn't at the major league level just yet during the season. So we're all just trying to wrap our heads around it. That's something that is going to come into play. What's your stance like? Like, is everyone going to get into a neutral stance now?

I mean, I think, yeah, I see what you're saying. I mean, end of the day, hitting-wise, you just have to be comfortable. Like, I don't... Sure. You know, like, that's what it comes down to. It's one of the more fun things in the game that everyone does have a different batting stance. I guess if you're someone that lives on the extremes, that, yeah, that's something that has to come into play. Evan Gaddis was 6'4.

Right. Okay. And then he got down so low when he was hitting. Like, that ball will be at his eyes and be a strike. So, like, that's, people are going to have to take that in the consideration, Jake. If what we're saying is true, which I think it is, it's, they take your height. Right. Online, it says that they measured players before the start of spring training.

Nothing else. Who's got those numbers? We need the sheet. Cleats on, I'm assuming. MLB has those. Let's take an inch off. We need those. Cleats on and you're standing on like a platform.

Dirt. Yeah, but dirt would go under. But if you're on a platform, then you'd have like another extra inch. They'd have to measure the cleats on because that's what you play in. Right, but the cleats go in. Unless you're trying to game the system.

Right. Could you wear shoes or not wear shoes? You don't sink down to the freaking thing. Treve, you know I don't ask this a lot. I think you're going to have to send some texts. Yeah. You're going to have to send some text, bro. Just to see what, what was this?

Like, is it just the normal spring training measurement? Was it the team doctor? Was this the league? Was this a guy from ABS? Like, what? What was this? Because that matters. Very curious about all this.

Very curious. I think you're going to have to get your sources going. Me and Evan Gadda, 16 and under a USA team together. I was going to say, wasn't that one of those tournaments you guys were in South America, just running around the streets? He got sent home from that. Oh. A couple guys did.

Homer Bailey? He was there. He was there. I want to just throw these studs under the bus anyways. So that's one of the... Okay, that's an interesting thing we're going to have to find out. You know, I think there was some nerves about pitchers gaming the zone. It sounds like you're a little,

less concerned with that currently? That I was, my early conclusion is that, well, I don't know. Everyone's trying to get a call, so it is what it is. But if hitting's the hardest thing doing sports and this is something that can benefit either side, I lean that this is better for the hitters to start from everything you talked about from count leverage. Like, I think this is good news for hitters. As long as they have a chance to get used to the.

strike zone like let us know the strike zone let us get used to it then it becomes probably advantageous to the hitters but there are certain pitches that a pitcher can throw to take advantage there that we talked about the depth eight and half inches from the front of the plate front and back so just put the difference if it was which I thought it might be maybe it was at the beginning when they first started this like just the front of the plate right you know then you could really work that 126 curveball and just nip the front part of the plate

landed essentially on the plate if it's coming down vertically enough and you'd be able to get a strike on a ball that bounced. I guess technically you could still land a ball in the middle of the plate if it's coming down enough for a strike. So if like that happens, will we see the usage of a 12-6 curve ball

go up? Yes. I don't know if that's really possible physics-wise to really do that. I think there's a little bit of V-Lo going in, so I don't think you can necessarily do that. But I think what we will see is a bunch of two-strike pitches where maybe early on, like in Spring Cheney,

we will have pitchers challenge the ball that bounces right behind the plate just to see, okay, where was that? Yeah. Like, did it nip the, the zone or okay that's not enough like i think they'll use this as training for what can i get away with and i think that's something you have to take into account like you know our picture is going to change the repertoire because of this it there's just a lot of things that this opens up um

yeah it's it's i want to see it play out more yeah yeah and i you know with teams are going to try to be so judicious with this to start until they learn the ins and outs of it because you don't want to waste it, especially if there's a big situation and you're out and then a big call happens. Like, that's going to feel pretty brutal. That, yeah, I'm interested to see all those ins and outs. And like from a fan watching experience, which something Jimmy opened up my eyes to is that every NFL game, you turn it on and you get the camera shots you know. Yes, some of the bigger broadcasts,

you might have the floating camera behind the quarterback or the Boogmobile when that was cooking or whatever. But every broadcast is the same shot that you get familiar with the field and the first down and how it's going to look. Baseball doesn't have that. You turn a different... Especially when they're showing the pitch.

Yeah, it's off to the side, it's behind. I don't know. That's going to be an interesting to watch fan experience. wise. And I hope, and to start, it's going to be a lot of guys saving it for the big situation, saving it for like some teams early on, because dude, it's tough to trust players. Like, I think pitchers, most teams pitchers are going to lose their vote. Like, I don't think pitchers are going to have a vote. Like catcher, you got the best view in the house. pitchers are very emotional and understandably so they should be like that's okay easy um

that yeah it's going to be interesting to see how different teams use their privileges that a lot of coaches might just be like hey we're saving ours to the seventh inning or later guys like let's let's just be smart about this um but i don't know it or leverage situations right like how how can you also tell i mean the dodgers don't care about any anything like Dave Roberts is going to like Freddie Mokey to you guys know what you're doing but it's going to be interesting to see how the different team dynamics play into it. Yeah, there'll be different. There'll be different rules per team for sure. I do think that that is probably the best portion of these rules that I have read is the fact that it has to be

the pitcher, the catcher or the hitter. Nobody the manager can't do it. Nobody from the dugout can do it. nobody from back in the clubhouse looking at screens can call down. Like it has to be immediate and has to be one of those three guys. That to me makes it part of the game. Yes. Like that's players doing it, not the auxiliary coaches. I respect all the coaches,

all that stuff. But my gosh, let's let's let the guys play the game. Please. I've said that from, I got blasted when we did our famous AI. Oh, my God. It's going to go down as a legendary.

We might just run that episode every Christmas Eve or something. I think we should. Just you want to dumb the population down a little bit. That's what you do. I think, um, like I said like the pitch, like tipping pitches like are like getting tips on pitcher should only be the guys on the field.

Uniform personnel. I don't like some dude on his computer in his hotel room pulling up. Like I don't think that's, that's not part of the game. dude, I don't like that. And this is kind of along the same, it'll look, like, you have to be right there and it has to be immediate.

That seems to me still, like, within the spirit of the game. If it was a manager or somebody could call down, I hate it. That's like why the replay thing is like, I wish the replay would do the same thing. Are you involved in the play? Are you on the field? You can, you can challenge that.

But like the hold on, hold on, call the guy, call the guy. Like, I can't. stand that Jake. I agree, but dude, and maybe this is just me. I've always, I struggle so much from the viewing perspective and, you know, going back to my playing days. Like, tags at second base, bro, no clue.

I'll be honest with you. No clue. Well, I also hate that rule too. If I'm the base runner and I slide into second base and it's bang bang, I think I'm safe. Like, I'm competing and I, so that, that's the only part that I, I understand. You kind of know. You know. In your head deep down, you know,

but you're like, everyone's always like, oh, shit. I, so I do hate that, that now every sliding play, it's if you're out, throw up the challenge, because why not?

But, dude, I kind of don't. Like, I, again, that could just be a me thing, but. I'm going to pose a question to the fans here. Right. In the comments, I want you to let me know,

if you like, like the fact that now, because we have slow-mo cameras in the challenge, do you like if your foot comes off the base this much on a slide like do you like that you can challenge that and all the sudden you're out because I don't really love that it's like a a base is a weird thing if you really think about yeah you're sliding you know feet first into the thing and you're you hit it's got a little bit of a bounce to it so yeah it's like going to push your spike upwards like if you beat it you beat it that's kind of how I'm I always liked it. You know, the neighborhood rule around second base where you can kind of just dust the outside

when you're turning a double play. Like, the ball beat you, the ball beat you. Now, like, it's like you got to hold the tag down and you might come off a little bit. And I'm not a fan of that. I'm curious. What if you slide past it? That's different.

Okay. Sliding past, it's different. But like, if you hit the base, and think about that, the base is rubber. And your cleat hits it going as fast as you can. It just might come off just a little bit. I think that is. That's not really in the spirit of the game.

I tend to agree. And I, hey, if you're, hate the MLB commissioner's office and rule chain, hey, they've made big changes and they've kind of all been a hit. So I, something like that, I could very much see it being in play one day it feels like this is next.

Let's go look at a couple. Bobby's prepared a couple for us that we can test our eyes a little bit and see if we are Hawkeye. So this is the first one. It is on our sheet. So you guys do actually have like the answer, but this is the first ever one.

Oh, I haven't looked at it. Oh, okay. I can play it again. Yeah, show us again. This is Cody Poteet against Max Muncie. some thick legs all right potique calls for it

what do you guys think that's a strike that's a strike and I think this is the big this is the biggest one for pitchers the classic catcher has to reach across

sure in the like I think that's where pitchers and catchers are going to clean up the most because that's it's just been missed for you hitters don't really care about that one

they know it's a strike but like you know for so long it's got to hit your spot but you use that argument but you know it's right And it is calls for it. That's the strike. Yeah.

And that's the strike. Big time strike. Okay. Could zoom in at the end. We like that. All right, we got this one. This is the Padres versus the A's and Maldonado challenges. Hmm.

I got strike. Okay. So they called that a ball. They called that a ball I got strike That's interesting That's tight I like it

He's tight He's tall The hitter Oh hitter is tall Good call Treff Hitter's tall That ball That ball broke late

Like it feels like That ball really moves at the end A horrible camera angle Oh did it go around the zone though I got strike You want to lock in I think I'm gonna go strike with you I, in my heart, that feels like a strike.

But yeah, we could, we could be outside or down here. All right, locking in a strike. I trust Maldonado. Challenges. And it is a... That clip? Stripped. Wow.

Let's go. Wow. See, that's tough. I'll tell you what. It's a strike. If that pops up and my team's got second and third or whatever, you're going to That's going to be a very new baseball fan feeling. You can't deny it, though.

Right. That's what's great about it. Right. It's a strike. Yeah. All right. Here's the third one. We got the Blue Jays versus the Yankees.

This is called a ball. Alejandro Kirk challenges. Turkey. It's the head. You see it again. Need to see it again and see that one. Oh, I got ball outside. Give me one more.

Sure. My guy, Spencer Jones. Watch out, people. He's coming. I got that on the, too far outside. Yeah, that's Kirkie Framing. That's an old... All right, so we got balls.

Yeah. And you guys. All right. Yeah, come on. I've seen a lot of pitches in my day. We're hitters. Okay, so what's that little number that comes up? That's how far away is.

Is that half inch off the place? that's fantastic. We got that one. All right. We're crushing this. Another Yankees one, Yankees Ray. Should we just be umpires?

Would that have been the fix? Yankees Rays. Yeah, I think I watched this one live. Whoa. Okay, don't stop right there. Yeah, it stopped. Um, okay. That was quick.

What do you think? He called it a ball. It was called a ball. Pop of the ball. the zone. It was definitely over the plate. Did it clip the top? That's 53% of his height. I'm going to go ball, but I think it clipped the top. I'm going to go ball, though. Jake? I know the answer. I watch this game live, whatever. It's a ball. Yeah. Okay. And it's not even close, which I thought was interesting. Because I mean, Trev, look at that. Like, that's. So 53% of his height, that was above that. That's how I

looked at that. I mean, Rob, you can play it again because, like, I don't know, this does look borderline. Like, if a guy gets punched on that, you're like,

okay, you're probably not excited, but I guess I was shocked. I think that's a ball. I was shocked how much of a gap there was there. But, you know, that it could have been right there is where it really made its move down.

Right. Down. After the eight and a half, after the T-ploof, that it came right down. All right. And last one, this is my favorite one. This was the Angels versus the Guardians.

Guardians were beating the Angels, I believe, 14 to 1 at this point. Oh, yes. This is the last three, two count, two outs. Basically, games on the line right here. Down to the last strike. Christian Moore challenges. Why not? Let's do that again.

that again. Ooh, that's interesting. That looked like a little cutter or something. Called strike. I got it to the strike. I need one more. I need one more. That's such a bad freaking angle.

Umpire calls it a strike. You know, me and Trev, we're always looking to differ where we can. I'll say that's a ball. I don't know. The catcher, catcher's reaching.

It falls cutting away. This is a tough angle, but I'll go like. To 1 ump's trying to get out of here I'm trying to get out of here And it is Come on Ringed up

My guy 94 for the halos here Challenge it, why not Don't cut too quick Look at this Oh Ball Oh, love that Wow

Less than 0.5 inches That's That guy is like thank God Yeah The umpire was not happy. Had to keep going for about 15 more minutes. He's probably got to go to the bathroom.

He's like, dude. Angels lost 14 to 2. Okay. I love it. Do you think? I've said this before, Jake. Right. I think there are going to be some umpires that really play into this as well.

Maybe I'm wrong. But if there's a guy that maybe they don't like, they've had some back and forth throughout the game and he challenges and the hitter is wrong. And he just goes, you know, some smug look, or maybe he goes, this one. That was one of Jimmy's early takeaways. He was like, hey, if a hitter calls out an ump and they're wrong, and now the next pitch is borderline, umpire's still human. Like, I mean, that last pitch we saw, that throughout the history of baseball has gone either way.

And I, the human side of umpires is going to be interesting. and we're probably going to have a couple hilarious interactions where a player is probably going to double up and be like, no, dude. And that's going to be, that's going to be fun. We have a social clip out there somewhere where I was like, man,

like this is going to be, make Angel Hernandez, obviously that's not going to have. Angel Hernandez could be like even a bigger star because like think about when the challenges are going to be implemented, most of the time are going to be high leverage. we think we'll see how it plays out but like you just said these guys are humans human nature they want to do their job right big situation uh batter at is on the road and it gets freaking

rang up the place is going crazy and then he challenges it place calms down and then it ends up being a strike it's going to get a second pop like the umpires are like Yeah. So it's going to be it's hard not to do that man. That was going to be my kind of closing. I think there's there's still a catcher's conversation a little bit. I do think that's tight. But I guess entertainment value wise, do you think this is going to be good for baseball or bad for baseball or kind of unnoticed. Good for baseball. Yes. We we just did this. We just filmed BB6 not too long ago. Let's ball. Check out our warehouse page. And we have a million. cameras and we do some replays. And at the beginning of it, we were just having the booth say something and nobody downstairs, like the crowd didn't really know what the call was.

We implemented a rule that the umpire had to go out to the middle of the playing surface and call something. And that's, we went nuts for the calls. Like that is, it's entertainment. It really is. So yeah, I think it's going to be a plus as far as entertainment. Yeah. And I guess the other, conversation was tied to the catchers and pitch framing because that became so much of a thing and it shouldn't be as prevalent. Like I know one line I got stuck with Jimbo was, you know,

we're just tricking old men. Like that was the job of a catcher for a little bit was to trick the umpire, which again, there's something about that that's not in the nature of the sport. I do think the framing is going to be very important because even that last pitch we brought up, a cutter that's off the plate that, okay, that guy throws that same cutter again, it breaks less than a half second later, so it has the corner. Like, teams aren't going to be able to challenge those flippantly. That I think the catcher framing value is still very much going to be there. This is a la the pitch clock,

where the pitch clock's goal was to get rid of the pitchers that were really killing it. The guys that were taking 50 seconds and stepping off and, you know, this is to get rid of the bad ones. And I think the catcher framing is still going to be very valuable. When we do get a little comfortable, you know I've been asking to get me some more hitting meat sacks behind the dish that maybe we can get closer, but I think with this system, you still need someone back there framing up your pitch.

If it went full Hawkeye then yeah Framing is out the window doesn't matter but because there's only two challenges like you still need guys to steal strikes there's still going to be a ton of strike stolen

they're still going to be a ton of missed calls it's two it's two challenges and I don't think I truly believe like you're saying I don't think every hitter isn't have the right to challenge I just don't unless it's egregious yeah man I mean

If you're a rook, I'd be like, don't fucking use your challenge. Unless you know. Like, that's the truth. Well, man, that's what I'm running through, I'm running through these teams that have a couple thumpers. The Kansas City Royals. Hey, I'll leave out player names for now.

But if you're a guy at the bottom of the Royals lineup, those challenges might be saved for Bobby Witt, Salvey and Vin, many. Do you think, do you think you have to demonstrate like a low chase rate, you know, like the numbers have to back up if you're able to make a call? Like if you're a guy that swings at everything, like you probably shouldn't have a say. Like you don't see the ball as well as other people do. So like you're probably going to get the challenge wrong as well. I wonder if teams are going to implement some data in their decision of who gets to use these challenges. I guess Okay, let's wrap this up with you and me, top of our head,

we're managers of a team. What are you, because I think I would tell the guys, I would say, you know what, you guys have all, you all have the credit that if it's egregious, I'll let you do it. But if you get an egregious one wrong, you will lose that privilege. Like, I can't risk that for the team.

So I would give everyone, hey, if it's egregious, you get it. And then I think I would say like unless you're one of the dudes, like you're one of the two or three guys that makes this lineup go, we can't afford it unless it's late in the game or it's a high leverage situation

that I think that's what I'd lay out. Yeah, I don't know if I'd go like as blunt as that. I don't think you'd do that as a manager, or at least I wouldn't. I would probably have some sort of like this is when we're going to do it. Is it a runners in scoring position? Is it late in the games?

I think the leverage to me would matter more than who. Okay. So like, you know, they're all big league hitters. That's what I'd say. You're all big league hitters. You're here for a reason. Let's save these for a time that it might impact a scoring situation for us. If it's nobody on, nobody out or nobody on two outs.

Like let's maybe save the challenge. Like, let's understand what these challenges mean and what they, how they can impact the game. Let's save them for, yeah, I mean, runners in scoring position, maybe if it, like, determines you're at bat, like a walk or, you know, a three-two pitch. Like, you know, I think you'd find,

find those lanes. Instead of a who can do it, it's like a when should we try to do it? But try, like, let's say, okay, it's 2015 in Minnesota. You've been around for a handful of years. You're the third baseman. It's a one-one pitch. It's the third inning.

and it gets called a strike and you're like, that was off the dish. Like, I don't know. I just think it depends what the situation is. If nobody's on and it's two out, it's like I think that you have to understand that there's going to be, there's going to be another time in the game

that you probably want to save it for. Like what are you, like, they know your percentages of, of the runs that you can expect in any given situation. So if like you're in a one, It's like, you know, not a lot of runs are expected in this situation. I wouldn't challenge.

I think I would save them for the more, you know, fruitful situations. It's, um, I'll be interested. MLB says it's not happening this year. Sometimes I feel like, I don't know. No, it won't happen this year. I don't think they, I don't think they've said it's going to be in 2026 either, but they can. The way it works with the Players Association and MLB is,

they can MLB can suggest a rule change and the players association can say no and then a year goes by and MLB can implement it no matter what so you can just say no for a year essentially which is kind of a crazy rule

like I don't maybe we need to revisit that but I believe in 2026 we'll start to see this yeah I guess just knowing some of these cats I want if they get a good response and I don't know

this all comes back to one thing for me Jake I need that list. I need the list. Trev, text your boys, dude, and be like... Who can get that for us? Okay, so I don't know about accessing the list, but I would love to know, like, hit up your guy. You want to know about the list.

Oh, I got that. That's easy. That's easy. Text Matt Chapman and say, hey, did you just get measured by the team trainer? Did someone from the leak? Did you have spikes on? Like, would love to know. I love gaming the system.

love it. Maybe I'll DM Tyler Wade. I don't know. I don't know. Him and Jackson Merrill just best buds? What's up with that? Tyler knows what he's doing. He's got a little t-ploof to him, man. He's boys with Judge. Like Jackson Merrill will be in the league for a decade after he's out. He's a nice guy that people like to hang out with. Is that what you're saying? Yes. He's a nice, I'll take it a step further. He's a nice, handsome guy that people like. Good conversation. California. I'm not a fool. You know why people hang out with me? Here we go. I'd love to know why. Olivia. Out white. Particulous. Yeah. I know. And that was all brought to you by Best Western. Today's episode is

sponsored by Best Western hotels and resorts. Life's a trip, so why not make the most of it? 4,000 hotels worldwide. Best Western is there for every detour destination and unexpected turn. along the way. Whether you're hitting the road for work, the next big game, there's a room waiting for you with Best Western. We're doing a lot of fun stuff with them this summer. I don't want to leak too much,

but I think Jolly's got a cool thing coming up. I think the Ice Boys. The Ice Boys, even little little shmee. So whatever you're doing, travel-wise, go check out Best Western, maybe stay a little longer, take the scenic route, and there's probably a Best Western there. So go check it out. Life is a trip.

Make the most of it at bestwestern.com. All right, a couple spring training storylines going on. Now, you know, maybe, hey, we had everyone making their debut. Corbyn Burns for the D-Backs, strikes out the side. Soto, Homer's, Ellie goes from both sides of play. All that's good. You know, Braggie goes yard, but there's not too much to sink your teeth in. Trev, there's a couple things that I do think are important storylines to know.

The first one for me and what fully finally set off my smoke detector is you told me that Chris Rose is all about this. Sandy. Sandy Alcantara, always struggled with that one. He's back. This is a guy that won the Cy Young was arguably the best pitcher in baseball for about a two-year span. We haven't seen him in a minute, and he comes out his first start in 521 days, 99.3 on the radar gun, hello,

and tossed a scoreless inning. Now, what does that mean? Okay, well, hey, maybe if you're talking Cy Young Awards and stuff like that, maybe that changes your votes. Maybe your all-star team this year. I think the bigger thing is, Sandy is making 17.3 mil this year.

he's making 17.3 mil next year, and then there's a team option for 21 mil, ages 29, 30, and 31. That the Marlins, who, when we did our team profile and projections, that was one of the toughest ones, man. They have really cleared the cupboard that if this guy comes out looking like he can look, I think we've found one of the biggest trade,

targets of this year and something that will go down because I think Sandy at this price tag for the middle market teams, if you could trade for him for the right price, I think that's worthwhile. Obviously, all the big boys should be in on it, that I think him, along with Vlad, is probably going to be one of the bigger storylines of this season. I think Sandy would fetch a bigger haul than Vlad would. Yes. I think, you know, relatively speaking, obviously we're not talk about some young kid that's making league minimum who's a stud or something like that like gunner hasn't signed an extension right like we're not talking about guys like that like actual contracts guys that have done it this he might be the most valuable trade asset in in baseball right now

so he he's first sign like maybe before spring training ends too if you're the marlins and he looks good through a couple starts, you got to start putting him out there. That is just for what the Marlins are doing, that is just smart business. Teams don't need to see him do it once the season starts. This guy's got a track record. The dad is all there. He's hitting 99. Like, do it right away if you're the Marlins. So yeah, I do think that this is going to be a massive story. line, even in my opinion, even before the season begin. Because that contract, 17, 1721 for him is, looks delicious, dude. And we're seeing fourth starters get $15 million.

We're talking about a bona fide ace here, a Cy Young winner, making around that same money. So, yeah, I'm, and locked in for three years. That's a massive haul for the Marlins if they decide to trade him. Yeah, I hadn't put it all together and then seeing. him looking at the contract, where the Marlins are at. I'll be interested to see. Because they're still, and this will start to segue us out, there's still a couple arms available.

Nobody likes Sandy, but, you know, Kintana's out there. Like, there's a couple innings guys out there that teams can still look into. And there's a trade market like Marcus Stroman, Jordan Montgomery, that there's still some starting pitching out there. there to be had. But Sandy's different. And you're talking about two and a half to three years, depending where the trade goes down.

I think for the Marlins, I think they should be in no rush. Like I, even if Sandy has a beautiful spring training, I think his value, I don't think his value goes up until, okay, it's April, he has five starts and he looks like that guy. And I... It's just the risk of, hey, man, like... He does get hurt. I get that. The injury stuff. Like if he looks good through spring training,

I don't think teams need to see him do it through the season. I don't think that they would care. Yeah, it's true. And I mean, just getting this guy in your pitching lab. But I also think teams get more desperate as like the injury bug starts to hit this season. That if you could, if Sandy puts in an average half of a season for him,

I think his value is above what it would be at the end of spring training that he is going to be. a hot name and a hot topic throughout this season. Your favorite store to shop at a nice ball. Yeah, you know I'd poke my head in hot topic. Rob's excited right now. Rob was a hot topic. A lot of band t-shirts for Rob.

Yeah, a lot of, oh, are those boobs? Treve, I guess the other thing, I'll let you talk about a little bit because Clay Holmes came out and he had a big spring training debut, three clean, that part of this Mets plan for, pitching this year is Clay Holmes as a starter, and you've liked the thought of him as a starting pitcher that he debuted a new pitch, and we just had some breaking news.

Sean Mania is probably likely to miss opening day, and you wonder if that brings in any other pitching options for them that they said they're out on bringing in any more starters. But I'll let you talk about Kill a Clay. Yeah, no, I mean, I always thought he was an interesting choice as a closer just because, The strikeouts can be there at times, but he's like the best ground ball pitcher in the game.

And, you know, at that point, typically teams look for swing and miss stuff more. So he fits the profile to me of a starter more than anything, but you have to add pitches. You can't just be kind of, you know, he's like a sinker, slider, sweeper guy, which is, I don't know, slider and sweeper. Like, I get it, they're different.

I understand that. But for a hitter's perspective, you're just going like, like that. Um, so, uh, because pitchers are just, have all the advantages of the world, he's like, hey, I'm going to start throwing a new pitch now. I need a third pitch or fourth pitch because I'm a starter. And he went and, um, was talking to the SNY guys. We got a clip from our good buddy pitching ninja about explaining his new pitch to kick change.

Definitely, definitely. So your typical, you know, your typical, you know, your fingers are laying flat on the ball. This is just a grip where you kind of spike up one of the fingers. Just so, you know, supernators like myself, people that cut the ball, are able to basically kick the axis where it's spinning and get the same depth. I'm not a huge pronator. I kind of release the ball from a more supernator or cut position. So really the spike just kind of pushes the ball where it's spinning more sideways and I get the depth. And, you know, it's definitely more comfortable for me.

And I think that's the big thing to change up is just finding the comfort and really just don't like your fastball. and it's been nice to see the results here early so far. First takeaway MetSpring training had fire. Like the best one by far. I love it. So what he's basically saying is he's not a guy that can pronate

which is typically how you throw a change of a circle change up. He's more of a super inator where he's cutting the ball. So for him to, before we had technology in the edrotronic cameras and all these things, he'd have a difficulty finding a change up that worked for him. But because

We have so much data and we've seen guys throw these things. He knows, hey, I can get the ball. I can kick it off its access, kick change. If I just spike my middle finger there and I can, and that's the biggest thing for the change up. You want it to look like a fastball coming out of the hand. You don't want to have to change like your arm action much. So he's saying if I do that, I can just throw it like my fastball.

Because the spike is there, it kicks it off the access and I get the movement that I want to get. So, I mean, he now is throwing that pitch. gives them that third kind of look for a hitter that now you have to be able to go sinker. You have to be able to go a little bit more depth with the changeup. Obviously a little different V-Lo there. And then he has a two different kind of slider and the sweeper. So it's that extra look that I think you have to have as a starter. And it's the ground balls is why I liked him as a starting pitcher more than kind of in the back end of a bullpen.

but this has the potential to be a strikeout pitch for him as well. And I don't know why Ritey's don't throw righty-rity changeups more often. It's still a very good pitch if you have a good one. It's kind of like faux paw. I don't really understand that. But this has the potential to be a strikeout pitch for him. And first three innings clean, I think after the game, he said that's the most excited I've been to pitch in a long time. I like when guys say that.

It looks like he's gotten a guy like a new lease on his baseball life. And that's cool to see, man. So even though he's a pitcher, even though I don't love that they have all these advantages and can just kind of freaking change everything on a whim, from what he went through last year, like he was getting booed a lot.

And he was, you know, I like that he's happy playing baseball again. It kind of tugged on the heartstrings a little bit for me. I like that too. And it, for, you know, a little Yankees inside. I mean, there was never malice towards Clay.

It was just like he was starting to struggle, and they had Luke Weaver who was thriving, and it was like, you know, the Yankees dug their heels in a little more than they had to. Yeah, that Clay never reeked of closer, and that's okay, because he might be a great starting pitcher. But, yeah, there's a lot of soft contact from Clay, and how did you like the Yankees' defense to end the year,

Mr. President? Um, so that was, uh, that was a bad combo. And yeah, it's, um, and maybe, maybe we'll end up doing a segment as like new pitches in spring training. Because, yeah, if Clay Holmes adds a change up, watch out for that. Um, and that was pretty cool because I didn't even know all schemes added to. Yeah. I mean, why, why not? Um, that, yeah. And this is, this is what I've been saying. Like, the Mets now think, David Stearns and what they built in Milwaukee. They now feel like they are one of these pitching places that they can get more out of arms than you can. And we've kind of seen a little bit of that. I don't know if they get full credit for Mania. I don't know.

You know, they tapped into Sevi decently last year and, like, Clay Holmes, they think there's more there. So, I'm fascinated to see. Everybody has the data, but it's how do you read the data and then how do you relay it to the pitchers? like, you know, Joe Ryan was the kind of the eye-opening guy for me. He goes, you know, I'm a lower arm slot guy, but I don't throw the ball here. I'm more over the top of it. So like that changes everything because I didn't know that until somebody pointed it out. So he's like, I always tried to throw like a lower arm slot guy, but I wasn't getting the actions that every other, every other guy was getting.

It's because my hand placement was different. And so you go down the rabbit hole. And if you have guys that can identify that quickly and say, you know, it's not your arm slot. It's your hand placement. Like the faster that you can get that information dialed in, the quicker you can make adjustments, the less time you're struggling with pitches, that's the difference in organization to organization.

Everybody has a data. But it's identifying, implementing, and relaying information, which is a skill. Like you have to have people that can talk data and then dumb it down to some players, some players you don't have to, but make it palatable for them and make them want to make these changes, that's what makes the difference in, like, what you'd call a pitching lab

and some organization that you'd be like, what the effort they do. Trev, let's wrap it up with the Draft Kings, Kings of the week. Hey, baseball's here. Basketball is rolling. And right now with our partners at the Draft King's Sportsbook, $5 for Newcast.

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age and eligibility varies by jurisdiction. Void in Ontario. New customers only. Bonus bets expire 168 hours after issuance. For additional terms and responsible gaming resources, see dkng.com slash audio. Trev, do you have your Graph King King of the week? I was going to go with our guy, Craig Yoho, because we had been talking him up, and he showed that change up and it was nasty.

But I think I'm going to go with the guy that looks like he's from Florida. Zach Veen over in the bat flip. You got video of that? I think Bobby does. What? That almost hit the pitcher, bro. Play that back.

Is he a California boy? Oh my. He's a Florida guy. He looks like he's a Florida man. He hits that thing a mile and bat flips it halfway, even three quarters back to the pitcher. I've never seen a bat flip like that. Right?

Did he say sorry? I didn't see that. It looks like he said I'm sorry. That's good. See, now I'm even more in on you, Zach. Just a little paw out. You know what's going on right now. Let me tell you.

Young kid in big league spring training. You have the nice pants. Your uniforms fitting correctly. You're feeling like a baller. And then all of a sudden you hit a homer and it's still a big league game. I know it's spring training. But you feel like, oh my gosh, I'd be long here. And sometimes your body just does things.

And I think that's kind of what happened right there. That's a crazy bat. That's like a Dominican League winner ball. They would never apologize for that down there, by the way. No. That was crazy. And I like that he apologized. But I don't know.

I gave it to the young pup. I'm glad you went there. I debated it. And yeah, he's first round pick for the Rockies a few years back. Like he made it to AAA last year So he's a guy that There's some young Rocky's talent Watch out

Here we go Back Veen, yeah And you normally You see that bat flip sometimes But it's usually out of the field of play Back at Back at the pitcher He blacked out right there

I like a little apology A little apology is okay In baseball He didn't mean it If you throw a bat at a pitcher It's okay to apologize Hey pitchers If you hit the hitter

And you really didn't mean to It's okay to be like My bad, bro. You good? My bad, dog. My draft king's king of the week. I'm going a little bit of a different route. Well, he performed, but I didn't know how nuts the story was with our guy, Dustin May.

It'd been a minute since we've seen Dustin May on the field. He had some elbow injuries. And I don't know, man. Trev, sometimes we just have this weird thing with pitchers where it's like, almost we see you when you see you. Like, okay, yep, you got Tommy John. sure. Okay, you had another elbow injury. All right. Yeah, let me know when you're back on the mound. I didn't fully realize this. Dustin May, like, ripped his esophagus. He was rehabbing for the second time on his

elbow and he said he was starting to finally feel good. There's actually some really good quotes here. He was like, man, after the first one, my elbow never felt right. He's like, then, like my elbow was starting to feel good. I'm rehabbing. He's out having dinner, eating salad, gets stuck in his throat. And then hours later, he's at the ER and they're performing an emergency surgery on him. That, yeah, he hadn't been on the big league mound or on any mound in a while. And you can see it after he gets through his inning. He's a little emotional hat, face in the glove, face in the head.

face in the hat that, you know, this guy was, you know, when the Dodgers were looking like they were building for some, we're like, okay, get ready to watch this guy for the next decade because his fastball's too electric. Like I was debating if his fastball ran too much. And now this guy's been struggling to get on the field in many different ways. And here he is, like, fighting for a roster spot essentially on the Dodgers. Like right now he's listed as their long reliever. and he's got all the armed talent in the world.

So easy guy to root for, I think, before all this, I think he's an easy guy to root for now. And he was the king of the week for me. I'm trying not to turn into emotional old Chris Rose for a lot of these stories, but this one's cool. No, I like it. And the fact that he's just kind of like, oh yeah, Dustin Mayer, remember that they got him?

Like, he's absolutely filthy. A good time to read to have a PSA for people. Chew your food. Take a little bit more time. Just chew it completely. We could have avoided that salad esophagus disaster right there. You'd like to think so? I don't know.

Also, Chris Woodward didn't know he was back on the bench for the Dodgers. I think I just looked it up. He's replacing Clayton McCullough, who went to the Marlins, and he's their first base coach now. That's huge. I don't know why I brought that up. I don't know. Sorry, guys. I played against him way, way, way back when.

What a way to close it out. Thank you, everybody. Enjoy your week. We've got the TPPs coming out. Make sure you check out your team and every other team. Get knowledgeable about it. We will be back Wednesday. Tuck and ball.

So. Do some. Pronate. I think I'm a supinator. I'm a big pronator. Oh, look at that pronation. I can do both. Obviously.

Yeah. Elite athlete. People forget. I forget.