Talkin' Baseball (MLB Podcast) - The Myth of the Man Behind Baseball

Episode Date: November 5, 2019

Season 6 of Laughs from the Past debuts today and it is all about Baseball. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

What's going on talking baseball listeners? Thank you for tuning in. This one's a little different. As you know, baseball season is ending. As you know, maybe you don't. Jake and I have many different podcasts. There are 14 podcasts under the John Boy Media Network. One of the podcasts we make that we really enjoy doing is called laughs from the past.

It's a comedy history podcast and season six debuts today. Season one was random miscellaneous stories from the past. Season two was the Civil War. Season three was historical mysteries. Season four was children who made history. Season five was historical backfires. And season six, this current season, is baseball's, greatest tales and legends.

Did we cater it to our brand new audience of baseball fans? We sure did. So I'm going to play the start of our first episode of season six here on this podcast. I hope you guys enjoy it. Ten episodes coming your way all about baseball and the past time and the great sport. Baseball and history are really, they are really intertwined and it's hard to untangle them. That's just kind of how the story goes for America and for baseball. So I won't take up any more of your time.

Thank you for giving this a shot and a chance. If you already subscribe, we appreciate it. But here you go. Here's the start of the first episode, which is all about Abner Doubleday. Did he really inventing baseball? No. Well, then who the fuck is he?

And who invented baseball? Here we go. Have you ever heard of Abner Doubleday? It's likely you've been taught Doubleday as the inventor of America's greatest pastime. baseball. It's also possible that you know Doubleday as a prominent American general and an honored war hero. Only the latter of these two tales would be true. Despite having baseball stadiums named after him, even in Cooperstown, we'll find that Doubleday had nearly zero

contribution to the sport we love. So who was having a double day? Where did this myth evolve from and who really did invent the great sport of baseball? I'm Jake Storelli and welcome back to laughs from the past. What's going on, everybody. Welcome back to season six of laps from the past. Thank you for sticking out the brief hiatus with us. My name is Jimmy. I've got Jake alongside and we are geared up and ready for season six, the great sport of baseball. The legends, the stories, the lore, everything. Obviously, Jake and I are baseball enthusiasts. We just started a podcast called Talking Baseball.

Baseball season just ended, and this is a very clear way to convert listeners from one show to the other. But you'll enjoy it nonetheless because we have a team of researchers and producers helping with this season that have a 10-in-episode arc that is fantastic. I'm really excited about it. So right off the top, shout out to Jared Gott. Jake, we know Jared Gott. He's in the chats all the time. Joe Webster, Sam Deutsch, and Lucas O'Brien, who have been helping put this season together. We are really excited.

I didn't know that we were going to open up with shots fired at Abner Doubleday right away. Do you feel bad, Jake? A little bit. My first time reading the intro, I told you in Luke, I was like, damn, it's going down on Avner. So that's tough. It's pretty brutal. I mean, everyone just kind of knows him as the inventor of baseball. It seems like he wasn't.

And I'm pretty interested in why we think this and why he wasn't. Those are first tales. It seems like a good place to start. One of what I thought was my coolest things that ever happened in my baseball life was I played an inning on Double Day Field in Cooperstown where they do some fun stuff up there. Struck out. Struck out. Got to be honest with the people.

How many pitches? Do you remember the at Batwell? Does it torture you? It doesn't. I think it was, I think I remember the pitcher's nickname. I think the pitcher's nickname was Doc. So that's kind of pathetic that I remember that. But that's what makes it a beautiful sport. Newtown guy. We could dig him up. Maybe we'll put researcher Luke on that to dig through Newtown baseball. But yeah, I don't know. It's Abner Doubleday. It's James Naismith. I mean, these are in the sports world. Those names are lores. They're creators of sports. incredible. Was Abner a popular name at the time? Had to be more popular. I don't know how popular.

How many people do you think named their kid Abner because they love baseball so much? They thought Abner was the name of the guy who invented baseball. They tune into season six of Last From the Past. Find out their son is named after a liar and a dummy. Whoa. I don't know about the liar and dummy yet. I haven't read the episode. Abner might be a stand-up guy.

Don't know all the info. He might have been wrongfully pegged as the creator of baseball, which I don't know. I could use that. Oh, if I was pegged as the creator of a sport, I would not deny it. I'd be like, hell yeah. Yeah.

Isn't that insane? Like, I'm trying to think of, like, I don't know, we give movie directors and, like, song directors, music people. We give them a lot of love. Like, you hear a song that, like, connects to you, and you're like, dude, like, that, I love that guy.

Like, how did they come up with that? The inventor of a sport, man? If I met the inventor of baseball, I'd be like, dude. Thank you. I might bow. You might bow? You were about to do like a Japanese bow there. Yeah, bow is the closest thing I have to a religion.

Put that on a quote. Jake, just before we get into the story that our researchers spent a lot of time looking up, Abner was very popular in the 19th century as a name for males. It's a biblical name. Saul's army appears twice in the New Testament, but it was pretty much demolished by the long-running hillbilly comic strip, Lil Abner. So I'm guessing Lil Abner from the comic strip was the little fuck.

Lil Abner. Was Lil Abner one of the first Lil's? No. No. I'm going to be pretty strong that he wasn't. A little Wayne. Little bow wow, Lil Abner? No.

Oh, Lil Abner was, he's not little. I'm looking at the comic strips. He's a big beefy guy. Classic. I think. Anyway, let's get into this. You ready? Where do you think you're going to land?

I feel like we're going to like Abner and just be like he didn't like baseball. Or he didn't invent baseball. I have no idea. Okay. If anyone is this is your first time listening to Laps from the Past, this is season six. there's an incredible backlog of episodes. I was a history major in college. I enjoy history a lot.

I have a good general knowledge or more than your average person. Jake likes stories, and he's usually hearing these things for the first time. I know nothing. Put it on his tombstone. Abner Doubleday was born in Ballston Spa, New York. On June 26, 1819. His father was a veteran of the War of 1812,

and later served as, a U.S. congressman. Wow, that's cool. Double Day attended school to study civil engineering and then worked as a surveyor for railroads before receiving an appointment to the United States Military Academy at West Point in 1838. He graduated in 1842,

finishing in the middle of his class. Damn. Hell yeah. That's a tough end to like your... I mean, you can say that about... Can you start saying that about me? If I ever get a Wikipedia page, I need it to be graduated from Central Connecticut State University in the middle of his class. Yeah.

Or you know what? That's a... Throw a near the middle of his class just to cover all our bases. Okay. I like that. Yeah. Because I don't know if I've ever heard that. No.

Because no one... You always hear someone finish top or high in their class or they finish low in their class. You never hear... Yeah, he finished middle of his class. Yeah, because you don't brag about being average. but I promote bragging about being average here. Yeah. My mom was a huge promoter of being average.

Yeah. Don't stand out. Yeah. After receiving a commission as a brevet. That's a word I'm pronouncing wrong. Oh. Brevet. Second lieutenant?

I like brevet. Okay. Or it's brevet. No idea. No idea. Never seen it. As a second lieutenant in the third. third U.S. artillery. Artillery. Jesus Christ, Jimmy. Double Day served in a succession of garrison

duties before participating in the Mexican-American War. During the conflict, he served as an artillery officer and commanded a supply depot in Camargo, Mexico. Double Day returned to garrison duty after the war and in 1852 married Mary Hewitt, the daughter of a Baltimore-Lew. lawyer. In 1856, he was transferred to Florida for the third seminal war. Wow. So he's a military guy. Those guys, they have a lot of time to kill on bases and wars. They're playing games. So I'm guessing that's kind of my hunches started as a wartime game. Is commanded a supply depot just code word for like he was the manager of a warehouse? Nothing on his military resume

seems impressive. Seems like he basically just was like made sure that the garrison had guns in it. I mean, we're thinking he comes off as like he's a bright dude. Studied civil engineering. And it looks like he was given jobs in the military that was like, we need a bright dude. We don't need like a fighter.

Yeah. Can you just man the garrison, make sure that like inventories? tour is taken care of. Count the ammo. In 1859, Doubleday was stationed at Fort Moultrie in Charleston, a staunch abolitionist and supporter of Abraham Lincoln, he soon found himself surrounded by secessionist's fervor. In the face of mounting hostilities in December of 1860, Doubleday and Fort Maltry's commander,

Major Robert Anderson, moved their gulf. to Fort Sumter and abandoned the city's other forts to the South Carolina Militia. After nearly a four-month standoff, militia forces fired on Fort Sumner on April 12, 1861. Double Day, as second in command, is said to have overseen the first shots fired in defense of the fort. After a 36-hour bombardment, Doubleday surrendered Fort Sumter along with Anderson. So, I mean, they're caught up in a bad time Because they're in the middle of like the South But they support Lincoln

And all those militias are coming for all the forts Because the Civil War is starting Yeah, I never really uh I never really thought about that with the Civil War You're a you're a northern dude in the South And all that stuff's happening Gotta go Got to run away, yeah

All right So he started the first like round of fires like fire so that's cool it's cooler than what we thought before yeah better his street cred went up double day's first combat experience came in august 1862 at the second battle of bull run manassas we did a whole episode on the civil war i wonder if jake remembers anything the second battle of bull run manassas during early fighting near brauner's farm double day dispatched nearly 1,000 of his men to support forces under General John Given. His reinforcements helped temporarily hold the union line against a barrage by General Thomas Stonewall Jackson's

Confederates. His unit returned to action the next day, but was pushed back by forces commanded by James Longstreet. Remember that big battle from the Civil War episodes? That was when Thomas Jackson the south was surrendering and Stonewall Jackson said that we will finish them with our bayonets and took out his sword they didn't really do that they just sat on a hillside and waited

and then did pretty good so Double Day was involved but yeah and Doubleday again think about where we've come in two paragraphs he was involved in some of the first bullet sent and now I mean he's kind of got Stonewall Jackson on the resume, which, I mean, that's an all-timer.

Mm-hmm. Yeah, they were adversaries in one battle. That's cool. Yeah, it's nuts. Reassigned to the I-Corps under General Joseph Hooker. I think that's, we call them prostitutes because of him, hookers. Yeah. Double Day next participated in the Battle of South Mountain in September 1862.

After General John P. Hatch was wounded in the fighting, Doubleday took command of his division and successfully withstood a Confederate assault. He remained in division command for the Battle of Antietam, in which his unit sustained heavy casualties at an area known as the Cornfield. That's tough to have a battle place known as the Cornfield. Like, we were over at Bull Run. You know, we're at Antietam. Like, where were you?

We were in the cornfield. Yeah, I see what you're saying. I don't know. I could see the cornfield also having a spooky vibe to it. like, oh, dude, you're in the cornfield, bro? I don't know. Also has like... You think it was actually a cornfield?

Had to be, right? Yeah. I don't think you can name something not the cornfield, the cornfield. Unless you're trying to trick the enemy. Yeah, I don't know. Also has like a call of feet... In my head, and maybe this is just polluted by nowadays in video games,

but I'm picturing that just being like a level. Like, all right, boys, we're playing the cornfield today. Yeah, I think that might be diluted by video games. I don't, it just seems very much like war. Yeah, it feels like there's a hint of that in there. It doesn't seem like war was in the video game mode yet. There is dabbled in there. All right.

So anyway, after all that shit, he was promoted to Major General of the Volunteers. He would play a significant role in the Battle of Gettysburg. Heard of it. During the first day of fighting, he was forced to take command under the I-Corps following the death of General John Reynolds, choosing to follow through on the battle plan already enacted by Reynolds, Doubleday ordered his men to hold positions near the Chambersburg Pike. His stubborn defenses finally collapsed in the late afternoon

and his iCorpse then retreated through the town of Gettysburg to the height of Cemetery Hill. I feel like iCorpos isn't how you say that. It just sounds wrong off my lips, but I hope it's right. Eye corpse, yeah. I mean, what's the alternative one corpse or something? I think iCorp's is okay I think Apple just ruins things that start with I

Ooh There's a hot take iPad I computer I banana This is all ruined now Despite having to fend off superior force of confederates For several hours

Double Day was relieved of command By the I-Corps by General George Made He participated in the second and third days of the battle As a division commander And was wounded in the neck by a shell fragment in the aftermath of Pickets Charge. So it sounds like what we're getting at us, he's a badass in the end. Yeah, they, this, uh, our research has slow played double day.

Um, they went nerdy and now it's like, and maybe that's part of the picture there. That's what they're depicting is nerdy double day growing some hair on his peaches. Whoa, this next paragraph says that maid refused to make him, uh, commander or mead. so he fucking high-tailed it to Washington, D.C. to talk to Congress and was like, that fucking meads a motherfucker. I should be in charge. His handling of the Gettysburg campaign is awful.

Plus, you got a bunch of pro-slavery guys in your ranks. Do you even know about that? So I don't know if I like this move or not, but he totally was ratting out the union. Yeah, very much a petty rat move. I've got kind of a weird brain going on right now because I'm trying to link each of his life experiences to... Baseball?

To baseball. And this is like reporting the pitcher for Pine Tar. It's pretty good. It's pretty good. I was going to say something, but I forgot, Jake. Sorry. Oh, I was going to say, imagine being pro slavery,

but fighting for the union? Like, what a fuck-up-up head you have? Yeah. And what's your end goal? Yeah, what is your end? I mean, are those people technically, like, spies? Are those people just lazy? Like, I don't know.

I'm kind of for slavery, but I've already got this set up. I don't know. I've been, I got a lot of friends in the Union Army, so. I've worked pretty hard to climb the ranks here. If I go over there, I'm going to be pretty low on the totem pole. It's weird. But according to our dude, they exist. They probably existed. Double day stayed in the army after the Civil War and an 1866 assumed command of troops in New York City.

He was then transferred to San Francisco to serve as a recruitment officer. During this time, he was involved in securing the first patent for the city's cable car system. Damn, that's cool. Double day late, if he invented the San Francisco cable car system, that seems like just as cool as inventing baseball in a way. Like those are just as famous in a way. Yeah, just as famous for us, it would be definitely a tier or two down. I don't know.

Did Double Day just live this crazy good life and that like some loser invented baseball? And they were like, hey, Double Day did a lot of cool stuff and he's around it. Let's throw his way. Let's give it to Doubleday. Double Day later commanded an all-black unit in Texas before retiring from the Army in 1873.

He died in New Jersey in 18, 98 at the age of 73. Not bad. Okay. Yeah. Okay. So he was a cool war guy. Cool, smart, smart guy with a pretty good, pretty good couple notches on his belt, Stonewall Jackson, high up in the military, couple battles.

Okay. Okay. Not bad, yeah. So part two. How did this American War figure get credited with the creation of baseball? That's kind of piqued everyone's interest at this point, right? This is what kind of what we need to know. This story has been spread far and wide over the last century or so,

and there is both a stadium and their minor league team named for Doubleday. Former Major League Baseball Commissioner Bud Seleek even called Doubleday the father of baseball, as recently as the year 2000. Bud was just looking for a distraction at that time, anything not to talk about steroids. Like, do you guys remember Abner? He was cool. He was cool.

They call him Abby, or is that rude? Abby? I feel like I've heard that before. Because I don't know. I mean, Abby's a very prominent lady name, especially back then, I think, even more. Well, no, because back then Abner's existed. So maybe Abby was unisex. And when they made Lil Abby, Lil Abner, the cartoon, and Abner died.

now we only know Abby as a woman's name. Because not for nothing. Abby, good baseball name. That is a good baseball name. Hey, Abby. Oh, do it again. Abby. Yeah, that's great.

Abner, not so hot. I don't think this guy was good at baseball. Do we think Abner played baseball or just invented it? Because the vibe I'm getting right now is he was like, I'd be cool if you did this and this and this. And like he walked past a bunch of kids playing. He never played though. He was the first analytics guy.

He was crunching the numbers. You know how they always say like it's so crazy that they lined up the bases 90 feet away and still to this day, it's the perfect distance. Yeah, it's Abner's job, I'm guessing. He just did the mental math. Yeah, that's pretty interesting. Like they were playing this sport and Abner just tweaked it. You've got these bases too close.

Yeah. No, 100 feet? Let's put the bases at 90 feet. Came over with cocktail napkins and drawings. It was like, I think of 90 feet, you're up the odds of safe plays and close proximity plays. A well-placed bunt, you can still be safe. They're like, whoa, chill out, Abner. Yeah, Abby.

He went by Abby. Abby. So how did this myth begin? to decide who invented America's game. A.G. Mills commissioned a study in 1905 and asked the public for stories about the game's origins. All right. Thank you guys very much for checking it out. The rest of the episode you can find on whatever podcast app you listen to, laughs from the past.

You will find it. If you search John Boy, you will find all of our podcasts. Go listen to the rest of the episode because we are about to discover a picture of Abner Doubleday and have a. blast and then and then we go through the rules the first set of 20 rules of baseball which was pretty wild and weird and funny times so go check out the rest of that episode you can check it out on laughs from the past any podcast app or we do post the video of jake and i talking on youtube laughs from the past has its own channel you know what you should do though you should just

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