Talkin' Baseball (MLB Podcast) - The New Managers are EXCITING? | 748

Episode Date: November 13, 2023

Use code TALKIN for $20 off your first SeatGeek order. https://seatgeek.onelink.me/RrnK/TALKINVisit http://get.bluemoonbeer.com/BASEBALL to see delivery options.Head to https://babbel.com/TALKIN to receive 55% off your subscription+++++Timestamps:0:00 We're Done Living in the Past!3:05 Jimmy's Trivia8:15 Cleveland Guardians: Stephen Vogt Replaces Terry Francona19:15 LA Angels: Ron Washington27:40 Houston Astros: Joe Espada33:40 New York Mets: Carlos Mendoza40:40 Chicago Cubs: Craig Counsell53:40 San Francisco Giants: Bob Melvin Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hello and welcome to talking baseball. The offseason is here and the managers are coming and going. A lot of managers coming and going. That's what we're talking about today. The off season, I don't have a bat. I don't have a bat. Hello and welcome to talking baseball. Thank you very much for joining us today.

If you are not subscribed to the YouTube channel, you could do that. That would help us out a ton. We appreciate it. It's November 13. Last episode, we did round out and stop talking about the 20-23 season. There will be no more 20-23 MLB baseball season discussed on this show ever again. So we're looking forward to 2024 and some teams have new managers. That's what we're doing today.

My name's Jimmy. Jake is here. Trevor and BBD. Trev, how are you dressed in all black looking nice? I'm actually trying to live in the press. I don't want to think about the future either. I'm just trying to be present in the moment, James. And I think that means, yeah, talking about some of these managers, like Joe Espada.

How about it? I'm excited, though, because, you know, I don't love managers and, you know, either the love or hate that they get. But this is, I asked before the episode, is this like a record for new managers during a year? It seems pretty crazy. And when things get crazy, I love to sit down and talk about it with you guys. Jake, how you doing in that pink shirt? You look good like a piece of bubble gum. James Davis, King Theodon.

I'm doing well. I'm, you know, again, no more 2023. 2020 is over. It's 2024. So I'm jazzy for that. And we got a, as managers go, we've got some kind of sexy names. I mean, we've got one of the more beloved players in recent history. We've got one of the most.

respected dudes in baseball getting another shot. And yeah, I don't know. We don't know the line of how much credit do you give the managers, but I know, hey, Tori Lavello felt like he did a fucking bang-up job with my snakes this year. Texas Rangers added a lot of talent as well. But Bochi's a pretty damn well-respected guy in the game. So there's something more to it than probably,

how hard we poo-poo it sometimes. I think that rhymed for a little bit. So I don't know. I'm excited to see which tidbits, Trevor's tidbits we dig out that help us find some things we like or maybe we don't like, Jim. It's time for Trevor's tidbits.

Those are some days back then. My guy Jack Flirty reached out and he told me he's got a huge hammer. Hey, I have trivia for everyone. You guys ready? Yes. To start the show off with some trivia? Should be brought to us by anyone, or are we good?

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Zobrist. Are you ready for trivia? Yes. Oh, which MLB manager has been in their position for the longest? Currently. Currently, active manager been the longest active manager of their current team, their manager. So it's longest tenured in their current position. Yes.

Which team has been with the manager? Like Cora wouldn't count because he got booted for a little bit, right? Yes. Yes, I don't think he would count. I don't think he'd have it anyway. Anyway, looking for loopholes. Yeah. No, no loopholes.

That would be the only good loophole, I think. Definitely not correct counsel. Is it Kevin Cash? That's a good guest, that's a good guess, Trow. Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. Kevin Cash. And the raise hired December 5th,

2014. Yeah, the only manager. I don't know what a salary is now, but yeah. So that means he didn't manage in 2014, to manage in 2015, but no other manager that managed in 2015 is still in that position. The next ones would be Dave Roberts, who got hired at the end of the 2015 season, and Scott Service, who got hired at the end of the 2015 season. Yeah.

How about that? I would not a guess a service one. Dave Roberts came to my mind, but the service one, all right. Scott. Okay, I have another trivia. This might be way too hard for you guys. you're going to get it. Because on this sheet I'm looking at has the previous manager.

So the previous manager before Kevin Cash was. Joe Madden. Joe Madden. Jake's correct. Oh, I thought it was a trick question. No, that was just to get you in the mindset of what we're doing. There have been two teams who are, there's two managers who are previous to two teams. So like, there's two teams out there who they're most recent.

the manager before who they currently have was the same guy. They share a most recent ex. Whatever. Don Mattingly and Joe Girardi, I don't know how to explain that, have been replaced and those people stuck. The Dodgers replaced Don Manningley with Roberts and the Marlins replaced Don Manningley with Schumacher.

So both of Maddenley's replacements are still there. Currently employed. And then Joe Girardi got replaced by Boone for the Yankees and then Joe Girardt got replaced by Topper for the Phillies, both employed. I was going to try and tie that in to the vote replacing Francona because I don't know if that's a higher that is, you know, their full-time, hey, we think this guy's going to stick for a while

or like, let's really change it up and just get some fresh blood because we get the oldest dude and let's get the youngest dude. So. Yeah. A note on Kevin Cash before we get on track a little bit. His original deal was five years, five million, and he signed an extension to which the terms I cannot find, so it's probably more money per year. Someone in the comments has probably already said what it is if it's out there. But let us know.

Beaumel also about to have, um, Bomell and Dusty about to be on that same list getting replaced. But like Bomell is kind of just right in that West Coast, you know, real weird way. Got a good thing going. I don't know. I don't know if he does or not. All right. You want to start with the big one or leave it towards the end?

A couple big ones, I think. Are we Kronpod? Cron pod and a couple big ones. I only have one big one in my brain. I think this first one's a big one. You got two. Yeah, I think this first one's a big one too. Two famous baseball guys.

Oh, I don't have this. On our sheet. Okay. On our sheet, number one, first team we'll talk about is the Cleveland. them guardians. Chris Rose. I would consider this a big hire. Because of Terry Francona leaving, massive hole, Stephen Vote, you know, very recently retired.

One year as a bullpen coach for the Mariners slides into the job. I don't know if you saw the press conference, very emotional and that's what Stephen is. He's, I think he's like aware of emotion a lot and he plays into it, which I think can be good, you know, for a manager. it means that you can communicate.

But I'm curious to get your guys take. I spend a lot of time with them, so I have some thoughts, but I'm curious to hear your guys take because it is, James, as you said, I mean, it's a young dude, and it is a complete departure from Terry Francona.

But I think he's, I don't think Steve's like a normal ex-ball player. Like he's been like training for this for so long. So I almost feel like it's not like a first manager gig for him even though it is. Yeah, I'll go first. I don't have an opinion on this besides I once attended a wedding with Stephen Vote and

at that wedding, Brett Anderson got absolutely lit up by the Yankees in the first inning and that's my biggest memory. Yeah, this, I don't know, it's first as a player becoming a first time manager. I mean, Terry Frankona leaving is huge but this

not in a rude way does nothing for me because I have no idea. So I'll let Jake go. Yeah, I think for me, the Francona effects, like I think going into last season, if we did a top five managers in baseball, there's a good chance Terry Francona could have been on that list. Some may be, some maybe their number one spot. Especially if you remember the year the guardians were coming off of when they were the young upstart guardians that won the central the year before when we didn't know any of their players. Then we learned who a lot of their players were, but all the pitchers were on pitch limits,

Trev, so they never really gave themselves a chance. What's that about? What are these pitchers doing? For me, the Stephen Voe also has some major pull because kind of like you were alluding to, Trev, this guy was the dude in baseball that you pointed at that was a future manager, like when he was still playing. It's one of the questions I always ask you when you know a guy is like, do you think, like when you were playing with them, did they give off managerial vibes? Like when you were around the club house, was that a guy you're like, wow,

that guy's going to be a future manager one day. Vote was kind of that guy around baseball, like kind of the prototypical backup catcher, well-liked. This is a guy that when he shows up to Oakland as a visitor, he's got the stands chanting for him. So he became one of baseball sweethearts in a delicious way. And he's got, I mentioned Chris Rose.

Go check out, you know, he's been on the Chris Rose rotation. It's fantastic and just an electric guy. And I think the, you know, he's 39. now. I think that would matter more on a different roster. Currently, Cleveland has two guys who are over 30. One, Jose Ramirez, who I'm, you know, pencil him for top six in ALMVP voting. And then the other guy right now is Christian Betancourt, who would be slotted in as their backup catcher. So this is a young team. This is a young org. Like, their whole pitching staff sees Stephen vote as an old guy. Like their whole pitching staff, I think, is currently 26 and

younger. Beaver, but isn't he hurt? So, like, I don't think that's going to be too much of a factor. And I don't know. This feels like an investment play, which, you know, your first year doing anything is probably going to be your worst year at it. That, I don't know. I think they're, they're kind of signaling like, hey, we want to give voter a chance. This whole organization operates differently. You got one of the most beloved guys in baseball. I'll reference It's Tori Lavello again, super beloved by the Arizona organization. Like there was times coming off last year where it was like, should they get a new manager?

And it was like, well, the talent wasn't really there. Stephen Voteslots in. But yeah, in a year or two, for all of these managers, you better start winning. Otherwise, you become part of Jimmy's trivia he started out the show with. Which I was wildly wrong. Lloyd McClendon also is double previous. and Dusty and Bob Bowmel.

But I ran into a thought, Trev. Do the Guardians even know how to manage a manager? You know, when Boone got hired by the Yankees, it was because the analytics team and Cashman wanted someone they could control a little bit more was like the rumor and a lot of the young hires, J. Stingler, like that whole wave we had of those young hires was because, oh, what does a manager do anyway?

They're just going to get the piece of paper. They're just kind of molders of like the brain. But Tito wasn't that way. Tito managed the games. He made the lineups. They go against what the nerds and all the other teams do. He was pretty kind of like in control. So is the analytics crew or whatever that baseball ops crew in Cleveland?

Do they even know how to manage a manager? Are they letting vote do the whole thing? No, I think when he comes in, if there was some of that with Terry where he had some pushback with them, far as you know who should start and what the lineup should look like i i think they'd probably take that step forward uh with steve and say hey we're we're going to be doing this and uh this is the way it's going to be i'd assume i don't think you hand the keys over to him and say do whatever you want doesn't seem like that um but to me voter makes so much sense in in this role i mean going

from a guy like terry who i don't know if we've given like him enough flowers like he's he was the face of the franchise pretty much. You know, him and Jose Ramirez, you don't say that about a lot of managers throughout baseball, but he was because he drove the scooter around and he had someone opening his bubble gum up for him so he couldn't take his eyes off the field. Like, just quirky stuff like that.

You always heard great stories from him, and he handled the media so well. Stephen's going to do the exact same thing. And this guy's, he's going to keep his club loose. He's going to make them laugh. He might come out in a round. referee outfit and do his whole bit in the clubhouse. Like he gets that aspect of being in a clubhouse.

And I think that that's different than a lot of guys because he has the energy to do that. And he likes that. He knows how to get people loose essentially. I played with him in Oakland, saw him learn under Bowell, saw him when he wasn't starting, sit right next to Bowell and kind of like pick his brain. I'm excited to see him work a bullpen and see him. if he's got any different ideas there because I think that's one area where managers do make an impact. But I think it's great. I don't know what the contract is, but I think, I think Stephen's

going to be around for quite some time, whether it's in Cleveland or whether it's somewhere else, this guy's going to be a manager for a long time unless he doesn't want to do it. It's the only thing that will stop him for managing is himself. I think he's just perfect for the job. And it'll be fun. It'll be fun to see him go out there for the first. first time. I'm curious what kind of get up he's going to wear. Like managers have outfits. They don't wear the uniform the right way. So that'll be something to watch. What kind of sunglasses is going to wear? Is it going to be a sweatshirt guy? That's what I'm assuming. Three year contract runs through 2026. Let's go Guardians, man. I like looking at

some of the other names on the sheet that were hired because again, as I was telling you guys before the show, a lot of like former teammates stuff like that Chris Velaka, Mortal combat Chris used to sleep at his house he's the Guardian's hitting coach he interviewed for the job I thought that was cool Carlos Mendoza was the runner up here before he took the Mets job that's what the sheet says I love it I think it's a great hire

I have him as kind of the relaxed baseball pullover that kind of like nylon it's like a rain jacket a little bit it feels I have him in that definitely not Jersey no you don't don't have them as a hoodie, like a Shelton kind of style.

They all love that. Maybe end of the year, but I happen to be normally hot. Yeah, but I mean, Shelton, Nevin, they all, boom, they all wear that cutoff really lightweight hoodie. I feel like that's become. Yeah. I wonder. I believe in Stephen.

I believe it. How many managers have their own chant? Boone. If you haven't seen the video of him hitting a homer in his last aback, go check that out too. Okay. He's had some moments. You mentioned Boone.

We got to talk to him this year. When we kind of ended up laughing at one point, the managers do a pregame and post-game interview every game. That's approximately 300-something interviews. Hey, Stephen Vogt talking to a camera that many times. That's kind of fun coming off a D-D-O. So good for Cleveland. Good for Cleveland.

And it's another catcher turned manager. So how many managers out there were not catchers? That's a good trivia question. John's Trivia Corner. Was Tori Lavello a catcher? He was an infielder. He might have caught, though. Who knows?

Might have caught. We'll have a might have caught list. Catchers. You know, like some of these guys that have played all over the place, you might have caught one. Doesn't look like Tori got behind the dish. He would have. Not in the show at least.

The team needed it. Damn. Played in Japan. Hey, Jason Giami was another guy that used to get talked about like Tori Lavello, but I think steroids got the best of them. Not Tori Lavello, a vote. Like going to be a manager. That's what they used to say about Giambi all the time.

The dude's going to be a big league manager. I heard way different things about Gianbi. It was off the field, though. Well, once he went with the Indians at the time, and then the Rockies, he had a run. In his later years, and he very much wanted to be a manager, and he just never got a chance, I guess.

I feel like I can't recall a year he got, like, interviews. I thought there was one year he was getting him. Yeah, he might have. I just don't, I don't immediately recall. There was like a player coach rumor for a while, the Cleveland Indians at the time. Yeah, that's what I remember. That's like a decade ago now.

He's out. You know. Okay. Where do you guys want to go to next? Ron it. Well, the Angels. hired a new manager, and it was Ron Washington. Snaps for Ron Washington.

Congratulations. They moved on from Phil Nevin, your guy, and he became my guy. and he became my guy. He was so nice to me when I saw him. So that was nice because I always liked Phil. But Ron gets the job. Some people that interviewed for the job, I'll just go there and then we can get your guys take. This was an interesting one for me.

I mean, we got Buck Schillalter interviewing for it. Benji Gill, Darren Erstad, Tim Salmon, and my favorite of all, Tori Hunter. That was another thing. Oh, we got your back at the end there. And it gave us Tori Hunter. Tori Hunter. Right when you said Tori Hunter, you got cut off. It was kind of like Tori being like,

keep my name out of your mouth. Mm-hmm. Did I do that again? Kick your ass in poker soon. Okay. So what's around Washington's first like task, befriendron, or kick him off the team, one of the two?

I think he wins Netto the gold glove. Yeah, he's going to help all the infielders, but he's got a big issue there. I don't know. even know if I can have this conversation like what are the angels next year i haven't even right my head around that i like that ron washington's getting another chance got the rangers to the world series back to back years been like a big piece of what the braves are doing everyone talks about him so respectfully i really thought he was going to go to the astros and kind of carry on that

tradition also feel bad for my dude buck it was rumored that he's very close to the people and the angels. I forget the guy's name. And that he was like, you know, really going to get this job. Right. And then if you don't get the job, you think, oh, well, they probably wanted someone younger and like newer. And he's like, ah, nope. They went with an old school dude, just not you. So kind of tough for Buck to be like, Ron. I don't feel bad for Buck. You've had enough Buck. Like let somebody else get some. Oh, you can't go from the Mets to the Angels anyway. So like Buck's, uh, you're, uh, you're, uh, Like that's a great, great not hire from Buck's point of view. We did this one on baseball today.

And that was one of the first things we talked about was Anthony Rendon and what's going to happen between him and Ron Washington. Because, and I don't know if you guys remember or not, I don't recall if as a manager, Ron is out there doing his early work with the infielders. Even if he doesn't, somebody's going to be doing that with the infielder. So you're going to have Zach Netto out there. He's going to be out there. All the other infielders are going to be out there. Is Anthony Rendon going to be out there every single day doing washes infield drills? Because if he's not, that's a bad precedent in the set.

And then you got, I mean, that right there is the first thing I want to look for. Is he going to buy in to the program and show the kids like, hey, even after you sign your $200 million contract, you still got to work? Because if he doesn't do that, then what is Ron Washington there for? Yeah. You wonder if we see Anthony Rendon's name this offseason at all Because it's an it's an interesting point I mean Luis Renhifo who put together an incredible second half He's he slotted into your second baseman role and maybe like up in the lineup

He had a big second half netto your guy guy sure he he looks the part And then our Nolan Shenuil And Schnaoel uh you know he came up and he was getting on base and he So three of your infields there are like kids that we've seen the Ron Washington system. We've seen Austin Riley give love. We've seen Dansby. We've seen Ozzie like Freddie,

all these guys who are all world infielder give Ron Washington love. So it's funny in a time when Trev, Jim, we talk about it a ton, BBD. You know, how much credit can you give a manager? Like if, you know, the Atlanta Braves felt like they were going to win 100 games last year, whether one of the four of us, was running the ship. Ron Washington at least has a party trick, an infield defense. So you're right,

whether it's him or someone that has the Ron Washington thumbs up to coach infield defense, there's something that you can instantly look for and our team should get better there. But you're also coming off of where does Otani land this offseason? Trout's obsessed with the weather. Like, it's an interesting environment. I believe it's pronounced like Manuel or Logan Shant Noah What's his first name? Nolan. Nolan.

Januil? Shanual. Yeah. Shanuel. Okay. Can I ask you guys something? And this got, we had a clip on this.

And I want, excuse me, I want to be able to, like, clarify my stance on this a little more because we have more time on this show. With Ron Washington, I said it's similar to me when the Ash was brought in Dusty Baker.

And people are like, and Chris Rose pushbacks, like, why, that's not even close. Like, the Ashos had all this talent. Ron Washington's inheriting a different like a lesser roster and I agree with that. That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is

Dusty got brought in because there was, you know, the cheating scandal and the Astros just had a bad stink to him. And you brought in Dusty and it was almost like a defense mechanism like, hey, like we got dust. You can't talk about this guy like everyone loves them.

Like the angels have like that kind of like it's not great, right? Like around baseball, like they just haven't won. They're losing Otani, like we said. Like another year where they thought they were going to be good. Then they weren't. They didn't trade anybody away. Like there's a kind of a Artie Moreno running the helm.

Like there's kind of a stink there. And you bring in Ron Washington, who is University of 11. It's almost like it masks it a little bit. And I think not all the other stuff aside, Ron Washington is a successful manager. He has what you call the party trick. But I think, you know, he's got something that he can bring to the table. but I think that is another big reason for this hire. Like you get somebody that's universally left,

so it kind of like deflects some of that. Stank. Yeah, they've tried that with Joe Madden too, though. I mean, the angel stink is... That's different, don't you think? He's not as below that. Madden's different. Yeah, but it's like the roof of the house stinks,

no matter what you put inside of it, as many flowers, it's, you can't change that roof. I kind of like the roster. I'm looking at it right now. Do they have me... I'm not talking the few. I'm in the present.

I was just going to say the opposite of that. No way. The Texas Rangers just won the World Series. Seattle is supposed to be in their peak in the Houston Astros. Over Seattle. Over Seattle. Are you over the Houston Astros and the Texas Rangers? No. That's what I'd love to know.

What did they tell 71-year-old Ron Washington? Like, hey, you got five years and let's figure this out? Two-year contracts? Is this going to be like two years and why did you keep Ron Washington away from the rest of the league. Oldest manager in baseball, 71 years old. Hot.

Go look at his Wikipedia pick. Fifth manager in seven years for the Angels. Tough Wikipedia pick. Crazy how they do that. Really? Is it? I got to go now. He's throwing BP and he's in that like pitcher

where you just can't believe how far back an arm actually goes when he throw baseball. And he's wearing no ball cap. I think that's a great pick. I will tell you that he likes that bitch. The next end of the chin. He likes that. The bald spot.

I'm into it. I'm into that. He's at work right there. He's about that work. Man, I didn't realize he was like 70 when he was so exuberant and lively on the, with the Braves. Pete Carroll effect. I'm happy for the angels. I can't wait to see the happy feet. You guys remember the happy feet, right? Ron Washington, top step of the dugout, scoring runs. He's got the happy feet.

Oh, yeah. We're going to see that again. Very cute. It's cute. No other way to say it. Love it. Well, I don't know what this changes for them, except it gives them a guy that everyone loves. Go, Angels go. Moving on. Moving on.

Next team up. Astros have replaced Dusty Baker from within Joe Espada. Joe Espada been rumored to be, get a manager's gig for a long, long time. Almost every year it was like Joe Espada's top of the list. I don't know how many times if you want to go find on Twitter like. I feel like he finished second to like four different manager gigs last. four years. Like, yes.

He really did. Well, now he comes from within. And I thought that this, there was two options for the Astros. One was this, just bump someone up from within or go get like a Ron Washington, Buckshaw Walter, like someone that's just going to come in and knows how to handle veterans and let them do what they're doing and not try to change your system, not try to put their mark on the system.

Like, you know, I came in and I revitalized this. and totally like, you know, I'm going to get some credit, like a young manager kind of needs to do if they want to continue to get hired and be thought of. So I like this move. Hopefully it's spotted just does that. Just like, hey, I've been with you guys and I've been around for a while. It's status quo.

Keep it going and has their respect. That's what I think this move is. It's just let's not fuck things up. Let's just keep going. Same way. We got a guy here that knows the system, knows the players. Everyone respects them.

and if we make this move as an organization, we're going to be in a good spot, the same spot essentially. So yeah, this one, I wasn't surprised at this at all because, again, I just think that they as an organization feel really good about where they're at. They have some decisions coming up soon

with Altovae and Bregman, but as far as, you know, the roster, it's in place, another ALCS in the books. This was kind of a no-brainer to me. So I'm happy he got a chance finally, but I don't think it changes much for the Astros. Happy Joe Spot against the land here. Like the guys were saying earlier,

you know, some of the teams he's interviewed with, Cubs, Giants, Mets, White Sox, Marlins, athletics. Like, you know, when you finally get that first opportunity, to have your first opportunity be with these Houston Astros, that's pretty nice. That's pretty nice. You got some good odds.

Like you're not going to look back in, you know, Oakland had a pretty tough year this year as you're building up your managerial resume. That can cook the books a little bit. So Joe Spott gets a real shot. But with that also comes expectations. Can you name those teams again? So. And so.

Listed are the Cubs. And they went with Ross over him, I'm guessing. I believe so. I think it was that cycle, yeah. The Giants. Kapler over him. They just hired him. a new manager, the Mets, Buck, Beltron.

Yeah, I think that was Beltron Rojas year. Robos. I think so. White Sox. That's been high. Grifal. They went with Grifal. I mean, he's dodged a lot.

This is, uh, Marlins athletic. So. Yeah, not a bad. Not bad. Chos spot. He gets a, he gets a real gig. And those are who are patient, the world is kind. I'll say something half me, what I'm known for on this, on this show.

I see like people link to it I sell Brad Osmus on there I don't know like I'd rather see someone like Joe Spada get a shot than watch Brad Osmus get his third managerial shot He just got that good smile He comes in he roos he bought me a drink one time

And I speak highly of him ever since because he got me I think that's what Brad Osmast does It just gets you real quick on the Brad Osmus front What I had read about the situation was Bagwell He's a loud voice in that front office And he was pushing for Osmus

But Spada knows the org as well So Bagwell's a lot of voice, huh? One interesting point of something like this The guy that's coaching And then becomes the manager It's almost

You get a big pay increase from Usually from a coach coaches make, I don't know, a couple hundred grand, maybe a little bit more depending on, you know, your role, how long you've been in the organization. He's going to be making a million plus at least here. So you get this big bump in your pay, which is nice. And then I think your work goes down. Like the hitting coaches and the infield coaches, they have so many different kind of responsibilities and they're at the beck and call of the players a lot. The manager isn't.

Well, you're not doing. You're managing. you're talking to the front office and you're doing this and that but it's not like you're not like in the muck really as a manager so a guy like Joe Spotted who's been kind of in the muck for a while I think it's nice to be able to put your feet up because that's not what the gig is but it's got to feel good to like you're calling the shots you got to pay raise like it's cool less work when was he with the Yankees 2017 was his last season with the Yankees Is that 2017 Yankees coaching tree Kind of like all dispersed Just went nuts Kind of

Yeah, Topper Topper Gerardi left Mendoza is the next one we're talking about And Mendoza's was he He was a third base coach for the Yankees Yes For a while A few years there

I think a few different roles But third base at the end I remember him. It was, oh yeah, look at this. Tony Pena was there. So he already had his tree. But Toppers of manager.

And like you said, Jake, Mendoza. Carlos Mendoza replaces Bucks Shawalter. Last place, person to replace Buck Shawalter, Brandon Hyde, still in a job. Last manager replaced Dusty Baker. Dave, Martinez won the World Series.

Metz hired Carlos Mendoza. I don't know. I'm guessing you have some stuff on this, Jake. They just went like, let's go not flashy since we've been doing Flash this whole time. Yeah, it was a little, I think this one surprised people, especially Craig Counsel Rumors, David Stearns in the front office. So there's your Milwaukee connection. Let's just do this.

Let's just do this same thing for the Mets, but make more money. And I don't know. I think everyone was kind of skeptical of the Mets for kind of the reasons. you're saying like, hey, go, you know, be the Mets. Go get us a big name. We're still paying Frankie Lendor a lot of money. Like Alonzo potentially in his last year as a Mets. Like, but they go for Carlos Mendoza.

And I think Yankee fans were a little surprised. We've covered the Yankees as like a work since 2017. This is a guy that's been around the Yankees. He's been the bench coach in the past few years. And we don't have a ton on them. And the Yankees also, you know, if you follow other sports, if you're the offensive coordinator in football on a really good offense, you're most likely to get the look next year when a head coaching job comes open.

The Yankees had their worst season in 30 years. So I think the last thing Yankee fans were thinking was like, hey, our staff is going to get plundered this year, pirate term. Carlos Mendoza gets hired for the Mets. He probably, well, he might have to move. I don't know where he was living, but to get to Queens, you might have to move. But he stays in New York City. He gets his opportunity.

And yeah, you'd assume this is a guy that's going to get a chance to grow with the team because he's not a Ron Washington type. He's not a, hey, let's come in for two years. Like, he's getting his first opportunity. You hope they give it to him. And I don't know. I think the bigger surprise came from Yankee fans just because it was like, oh, I don't know. I don't know a ton about this guy, even having tracked him. but I'm happy he's getting a shot.

I think with a guy like Steve Cohen, you know, running the ship essentially, he hires David Stearns and he's like, okay, I kind of went and got this guy. And then Craig Counsel Rumors were there. And if you're running a business, I think sometimes you think, I want that guy because he's the best there is and he might be available. But as soon as they didn't get counsel, you start thinking more of a businessman. What does this manager actually do? What does he bring to the team?

you know, what, what do we want from a manager? And you start talking like that. I think you can say, hey, we want a guy who has experience in New York who's not going to cost us $8 million a year. I think Steve Cohen's like starting to think like that. Like, where can we save some money so I can go maybe do it on the field? He came out guns ablazing and I'm going to spend and outspend everybody. And he's done that.

But I think as he's been in baseball now for a couple years, I think he's looking at different areas. and if you're talking, if he's sitting down talking to David Stearns and they're like, oh, we didn't get counsel. Where are we going to go now? I think they have a conversation like, we're going to be kind of like, we want to be in control of this. And to me, a first time manager, guy like Carlos Mendoza makes a ton of sense. You're going to pay him $4.5 million over the three years. So it's not like a huge investment.

I think he's going to be a guy that probably doesn't Tito it and say, I'm going to make my own lineup. I think he's probably going to give in the lineup. That's why you bring in a guy like Stearns. And it makes sense to me that they went out and got him after counsel wasn't there for them. Yeah. It's a little bit of a, hey, if he's the guy, he's the guy. If he helps us get to the guy, he helps us get to the guy since they already admitted that they don't, that, you know, 2024 is a continued to build a year.

and they said in 2025 is now the attack year again. So they get a year to see if they, they gel and vibe before they, in their words, go for it in 2025. The Guardians reportedly had Mendoza as a favor. That's on the sheet. This guy must interview really well. Never seen him take an interview,

but I'm thinking that in my head too. That's where the seventh different team he, like, did an interview with. He struck me as kind of the next Joe Espada, that guy who's interviewing for a ton of gigs and doesn't get one and they both got one. So good for both of them. Hopefully we'll get to know him a little bit more. You guys, I mean, that's crazy to me. When I asked you that, like, who is this guy?

You guys are Yankees fans. You didn't have a lot interesting to me. So hopefully we see his personality and we're going to, whether he wants to or not. Could be a good thing. I have no idea. But if you asked me for an anecdote or a story or like something, anything, I would say, I don't know. Snow has been around. Boone calls him, generally like.

Calls him Mendi. Yeah, Boone calls him Mendi. Which is something that BBD could go by if you wanted to call him that. That's what everyone called me in high school. Yeah. Almost sounds like a different language, though. It sounds like you're babbling a little bit. Oh, I need this.

You do need this. Trev, we do need this. Babble. Picture this. Why don't everyone close your eyes unless you're driving. You're sitting at your Thanksgiving dinner and you surprise your family by starting an argument. I mean,

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But I forget. Or Arabic. That the curse I know. Pick one. It's a bad one. All right. The big one. The biggest one of the bunch.

Record setting deal. Craig Counsel. Stays in division. Goes to his rival. Cubs. Craig, counsel, the three Cs, highest paid manager in the league earning 40 million over the next five years,

eight million per year. I believe there's 10 managers who earn less than a million a year right now, and I just read that last year there were 15 managers who earned less than 1.5 million yearly. But now there's one manager who earns 8 million a year for the Cubs. I'm a big expectations guy. Hello. Kind of the opposite of what we said for Mendoza.

Like, like you said, the front office kind of said that next year should be why. Their expectations were through the roof last year. This year the Mets are kind of chilling in theory. Like, hey, Mendi, come in. Let's see what you got, kiddo. Cubbies went the other route. Like, well-beloved David Ross. This year almost kind of felt like a win for a lot of Chicago fans,

just because we didn't know what they would be. and they stayed in it throughout the whole season. They've got a lot of questions. Two guys that helped keep them in it throughout the season, Stroman and Bellinger, they're probably on their way out, but supposedly they're in on show-A, so that's a whole other type deal.

But they just paid counsel, not even the most of these managers now, but the most of any manager ever. It ties Joe Torrey, the $8 million man, which is crazy how managers used to be valued and how they're valued now. But coming over from the division rival, in the Brewers.

And now an expectation's been set, and I love to note that Dalton had in here that this reminds Cubs fans of, they let go of Rick Renterea in the middle of his contract, and they brought in Joe Madden. They won the title two years later. So it feels like there's going to be a tight timeline on Craig Counsel if he's making that kind of money.

And I don't know. I also just remember laughing that I was like, hey, you know, Craig Counsel's going to look and to take some time. He wants to get to his kids' sports games. And, you know, that's going to be a big part of his decision. It seemed like the bigger part of his decision was getting the most money because he moved less than an hour and a half away from where he was. So I don't know.

I hope it helps Craig's lifestyle, but I think the money talks. Cubs fans, I think, close your ears. Can you close your ears? And close your ears. I don't understand this at all. I'm sorry. Like, I've... Question for you, Treve.

Okay. If it was four million a year. Yeah, I mean, makes it better. Yeah, because you can go spend four million on a reliever or somebody at the deadline. Yeah, like, like that's where they trip up for me is as well. I just, because I mean, obviously people have heard me talk about managers on the show. And I'm trying to get better with that. I had, you know, I feel like I was really strong on my managers don't do anything take.

I'm still kind of, I lean that side. But, you know, personalities in a clubhouse matter. managers are a big personality in the clubhouse so all this i don't understand the hoopla with kregg counsel and how he's the best manager i'm happy he got paid that i'm happy he's moving salaries forward for the guys great okay but like why like what's what makes what sets craig counsel apart now i know uh hoyer came out and had some you know the bear bryant quote about, I had it up. This quote is just ridiculous.

He'll take his and beat yours and he'll take yours and beat his. So you're telling me, what's the front office for then? If he can just take a random group of players, then, oh, okay, that's bullshit. That's like a lie. That's just a lie. You have to have a good team to win. Managers aren't going to change that. So I just, if you're paying this guy this much and you're saying that about him,

is he riding the lineups? Is he making all the decisions? is the front office for not? Like, is he just going to take over? Like, what is he going to do that's going to change your fortune so much? Like, I just don't get it. I don't get it. It's not like he's like, he's not like a character.

Like, he's not like a great interview. He's not like, he just, he's quiet and like doesn't, like, he's not the face of the brewers. He never was, even though, like, he'd been around for a long time and it was part of the organization forever and from there. I don't think he was the face of the brewers ever. So he doesn't bring that aspect. What is it? I'm genuinely curious.

What is it that makes him the most sought after manager this offseason? It'll be very interesting to see him with the Cubs. One of the big things that managers get graded on Travis bullpen usage, one of the things that has been quantified is that the brewers are able to really produce pitching products. They're like one of four teams. in MLB who constantly call up kids who can pitch. Like Abner, Double-Day, no, Abder Uribe was in AA today.

They called him up. Oh, guess who counsel gets to call out of the pen down in the stretch now? So a lot of times managers get graded on their bullpen managing. Well, bullpen managing, just like kind of the Yankees learned with George Girardi. And then when you went to the Phillies, it's a lot easier when you got six good guys or five good guys. I'm super interested. I think if it comes out that Cohen just drove this price up to $8 million, and it was just scared of Cohen.

Now the Cubs spend $8 million a year on council. That makes me kind of like fun in the storytelling 30 for 30 aspect. I don't understand if you can't get a reliever now or something. I don't know. That's the one thing, Jimmy. If they're at the deadline saying we can't go over this tier, my mind will be blown. Do the managers go towards a tax or is it just money?

It does not. Yeah. That's the thing. It doesn't. But if they're saying, here's our budget. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. I don't know. I don't know. I didn't know council was as highly regarded either. That one quote is nuts. Well, that's where the other front office side of this is crazy. So Tito was the highest paid manager at four and a half mil per year.

And supposedly Milwaukee offered him tops of five and a half. So, you know, Craig was in it. And hey, have been successful. We've kind of given more credit to Stearns in the front office because, you know, I don't know exactly what Craig Counsel was teaching a guy like Joel Pyeamps in the bullpen. I don't think that was necessarily what his doings were.

But the Cubs, in a way, their front office has laid it out for them because you're basically saying, hey, Craig Counsel, he might, we regard him as the best manager of the game. So what you're saying, Trevor, okay, well, if you're, went out and you got the best manager in the game, then I guess everything else lies within what players you're bringing in and how the front office is running that team. So they just laid out a gauntlet for themselves,

and maybe they're ready to go. Like, maybe this whole thing about the Cubs, because remember how bummed we were that it's like, so wait, you guys are letting Schwabre, Rizzo, buy as bright. You're letting everyone go. The team that broke the curse, the team that changed Chicago sports forever, you guys were just ready to move on

and we were sitting here as baseball fans, like, what the heck? What the heck? And you know, I don't like to say that. So maybe there's a new move coming. Like maybe Otani to Chicago is real. Like maybe they're putting the chips all all in. And that's why they went out and got the best manager in baseball that they think was out there. Also a little bit, this is free agency.

How many managers let their contract run out? Craig Counsel let his contract run out. people regard him as a great manager so he had a little waffle iron bidding war going on maybe the Mets did drive it up maybe the Brewers drove like he hit free agency right we always compliment players for this we should compliment Craig counsel for hitting free agency right

if that's how they're going to act if this is just like hey we're going to act like a boss and if this guy's available fuck it we're going to go get him and yeah we're going to be in on show hey and yes we have one of the best farm systems in baseball and we're going to be major players in free agency then I'm all in on it. Then I am like stoked on this move.

Like a big market team is acting like a big market team in quotes. Like I mean, we've talked about that an extent on this show. But like if they're going to do that and this is just like they consider this just another piece of the pie like, yeah, let's go get the best manager. Let's go do all these things. Then I'm all about it. But if they're thinking that we're going to rely on our prospects to come up and Craig Counsel is going to be the reason that we're win, I don't, I'm not into it. Like, but if it's just one move in a bunch of different moves, then I'm all in if that makes any sense. What if Ricketts saw the news out of San Diego and was like,

whoa, I can get a loan and then just get all the players? So I'm money's a little free to him right now. Genius. I mean, look, they have been at the, like, a lot of people have said the Cubs are going to be aggressive at Otani. That's, those are rumors out there right now, whether they're true or not. I don't know. But I'd like it a lot more if that's the way that they're going. Pete Crowe Armstrong will be there next year, people. Who's there this year? No, but like there. I do love that there's, you know, some good Midwestern drama in here, eh? You know, Milwaukee guy, Craig Counsel goes over to the Chicago Cubs. At least Brewer's fans at the end of the day can shrug and be like, I know there's that sign in that park. They like crossed out Craig Counsel Park or whatever. I mean, Craig

council left for more money. So if you're a Milwaukee person, like, that's where you land. Cubbies, man. You got the guy from the brewers and you poo-poo, uh, Rossi on the way out. Like, they have really, they set up the gauntlet. And I hope you're right, Treve. I hope they win you over by being the winners of the off-season. I'm not. Last off-season. Mets, Rangers. Mets and Rangers, yeah. Different seasons. Those are completely different seasons. Well, then the Rangers just kind of traded for the Mets winnings.

Didn't really end up anymore. That's true. And the D-BACs did as well traded for the bets winnings. The Mets were all over this World Series. Everywhere. I was going to say something. Maybe I've forgotten it at this point. Okay.

Shit. That was a fun way to deliver that. Yeah. I may have forgotten. Oh, Adonassios quotes were good. You know, I thought about it. I was, you know, you know, it's a loss,

but then I thought about it some more, and it's actually it's a loss for Craig. He lost out of this community. That's an excellent. Face. I like it. It's honest and it's not like terrible. It's not really mean.

It's not really soft. It's just kind of comes off as very genuine. He lost that. And a little like, you know, confident. He lost out. Does counsel get booed first time back? Yeah, humans are humans. I think he does.

You guys in Milwaukee, you better boo this dude. Why would it? And Craig, I don't care either way. I'm happy for you, but I want to see you get booed. Have a couple extra beer sandwiches before the game and let Craig know how you feel. They weren't even like an amazing, I don't even get it. I just did not know he was regarded. Craig won those two World Series as a player 25 years ago.

Only one other managerial job has been filled, and that is the San Francisco Giants. So we just talked about the Brewers a little bit there. They're still TBD. Ricky Weeks. This is people linked for the manager role. I don't think there's been interviews with all these people that we've mentioned. I'm going to link you.

Brewers are going to get Ross. That will be great. Just swapsies. This is how much managers don't matter. That's what they should say. The brewer should go managerless. Is that legal? What a move. Oh, you just paid 8 mil for our manager? We're actually going to move on managerless to prove that that's ridiculous.

That's a great counter. If someone, oh, we stole your manager for $8 million celebrating the streets. Okay. We'll just continue on without him. Don't hire anyone. Is that legal? Give it out to the fan.

Has to be legal. Give it to a fucking... Like American Idol style. Have a different player manage every day. Oh, man. Bob Melvin, kind of slutty, Treb. Your thoughts. We're going to San Francisco Giants.

Congratulations. You got your guy. Bay Area guy. Bob Melvin is the new manager of the San Francisco Giants. Former manager Gabe Kapler and talks with the Red Sox for front office stuff. He doesn't matter here. I actually just watched Farhan talk about Bob Melvin and the things that he said were so like stereotypical. I was like, man, I wish you would have said something different.

He's like, he's a Bay Area guy through and through and we align on a lot of our visions. And I'm like, all right, man, I don't know. But yes, is he is he slutty for teams on the West Coast? Yeah. Of course he is. Watch out, service. He was moving on up. Other people linked for the job before we get into Beaumel, because I think this is probably our last big discussion here.

Kai Correa, which is we love him, Gabe's mini-mee, Alyssa. If he shows up looking like Beaumel. That would be awesome. Kai's got the opportunity. We need to do the funniest thing ever. We need you, Kai. All right.

Yeah, we're going to do. to DM him. Lisa Naken, who was the giant assistant coach, he was the first woman to interview for a manager role. That was cool. Vaux apparently was linked to this job as well. He ain't coming. You got Beaumel and he's somewhere else.

This one, does this fire you up the way, like, counsel fires you up? Because what's the difference between Beaumel and counsel? Neither of them fire me up. I think what happened was the Major League Baseball went. away from like old school managers and that stretch from like 2015 to 20 20 20 basically and it was like if you survived that and had the longevity of like been around people were like he's he's great like I don't know people are talking about bow mal and counsel in a way that I just was not aware and and the numbers and nothing adds up so I don't know it's kind of like those weird thing we're

like if you just survive five years you're going to get hired again. Shout out. And then if you survive another five, you're going to be regarded as a great manager. And I'm like, what happens in those like eight years or 10 years? But I'm happy for them. He had to sit through and be the manager of the Oakland A's and deal with that front office and players leaving all the time and having a new roster all the time. I'm happy that maybe it'll be different.

Like San Diego was a trip for him. That didn't work out. I think him and Preller didn't get along. So like he's had to deal with certain things over his last two jobs with the A's and the Padres that I don't think he'll have to deal with with the Giants, which is I guess good for Bow Mel.

Like you need that, I think that's good. Kind of my take. Tell me, what the Giants do with their offseason. Are they going to make $100 million moves? Are they going to have, you know, their starting pitching staff at the end of last year was like two and a half men, Charlie Sheen.

So I don't know. Beaumel doesn't move the needle, but that's kind of what, that's kind of Bob Melvin's signature. Like that's, Bob Melvin does not move the needle. Great. I played for Beaumel.

Thank you very much. He's a very nice guy, an awesome guy, a great communicator. So like you got we got to talk about his qualities and his traits that make him a good manager like he'll He'll sit he'll call you in his office and he'll talk to you a lot like he's that's one thing that he does that I thought was really cool like he's very very open to you now it was Sometimes I felt like it wasn't truthful but at least he was telling me something you know he's communicating something I'll give you an example because people are like what does that mean?

He called me his office hey you're swinging the bat really well I really wasn't ever with the but you're swinging the bat really well. I want to get you in the lineup. I fought for you today. I fought for you to get in that lineup. But, man, if I started you that, I'd get that phone call. I get that phone call. And then I wanted to be like, do you really care if I play or not?

Yeah. No. He just, but he was trying to make me feel better. Bob Melvin lies to his bench players. You fought for me, Bob? I was a starter at the time. Sounds like Bob was just fighting.

Yeah, well, wait. But look, that's part of being a manager is making people when they're shitty feel good about themselves and he did a little bit. I was like, well, what? How many teams do you think

after opening day how many teams are going to have a manager a manager in his first or second year with that team? The number's kind of crazy. Say the question again. Yeah, what? Starting, opening day.

This one's an easy one. I'm not going to pivot. How many? Opening day, 24. Yeah, how many teams will have a manager that it's their first opening day with them or their second opening day with them? Oh, the second. Right now, there's six higher so far. There's four more spots available.

So that's 10 right there. Two more common. And then Bruce Bochy is one. I would guess 15. Go to fall. Yeah. I mean, with that, 16. 16.

16. That's a lot. That's over half the league. The manager turn is kind of churn is kind of crazy. Now granted, opening day, Topper took over halfway through, and so did Schneider. So they kind of get grandfathered in in like the opening day. But spring training is a big part of it, so I stand by it.

Definitely. The part that got me the most on the Bob Melvin one because it was with the Padres, they let him walk to a division rival. And like, you're entitled to compensation. that case. They didn't ask for any. Yeah, I like that too.

When I saw that note yesterday, and Dalton I were finishing out this sheet, I was like, they didn't, they didn't even grab, like, one lottery ticket arm and just in case they can screw over their rival, like. The Padres? Yeah. Let's just go barrel money.

Yeah. You can, you can at least get cash. Like, manager, you're entitled to some amount of compensation. They hired them from you. So, probably a situation. I don't know. Who managed the,

Diamondbacks before Tori Levello took over November 4th, 2016. I was looking at this the other day. Matt Williams? No, think of sexy dancers. Jake Story Ellie. Chip Hale. Chip Hale. Chip Hale.

My God, I hated him. Hard cut. I did. You want to know why he was hitting these ground balls obnoxiously at me. And I was like, what are you doing? Like it's 7 a.m. in spring training and the ground is wet and you're wailing the ball at me and I don't want you to do that So we had it out actually right away and then I learned I really liked him at the end

Nice A couple stags Chappelle I love that you know I'm gonna wake this motherfucker up You probably Lolligangayette was a rocketing balls at me. I'm like what is going on? Chip We can get to that I answer

Hold on probably his job for the day let's find out of this ploof guys going on fire to him. I did. I was like that. I was like that. His name is actually Walter William, but he goes by Chip. Smart.

W.W. Hale. If he was to be an author, I think he would go by W.W. Hale. Baseball rat like him. That's kind of it. That's all the managerial openings, the Giants, or excuse me, the Padres.

Baudres still searching. And the Brewers. Had in the ring? Brewers are, Done. Done, that's right. They're going Sands manager. Yeah.

Can you do that? Legitimate question. There shouldn't be a rule. Somebody has to like make a pitching change and stuff. So like there has to be somebody for title, right? I guess so. Like in hockey you have to have a captain for certain reasons. Maybe just let the players aside when they're done.

My arm doesn't feel good. I'm out. Hey, get ready. That doesn't work. The starting pitcher just comes out. Nobody loose in the bullpen. I'm done. I'm done.

I don't feel great anymore. Oh my God. We should have given counsel $8 million. This is a nightmare. All right. That's it. That's the manager search. Did any of the teams get significantly better with the change of manager?

Most interesting one to me is Ron Washington. I cannot wait, cannot wait to see what happens with him and Anthony Rendon. That's the biggest storyline to me. Actual answer, no. Possible to say right now. Okay. Good, good job. Good talking. See you guys later. I think we referenced 2023 a few times. Cubs will get better.

I did. Came up. I didn't talk about it. No caffeine for me today. There's a mistake. Thank you.