Talkin' Baseball (MLB Podcast) - When Will Boras Clients Sign & Former Mets GM Suspended for Phantom IL Use | 774

Episode Date: February 12, 2024

Use code TALKIN for $20 off your first SeatGeek order. https://seatgeek.onelink.me/RrnK/TALKIN++++Timestamps:0:00 It's Baseball Season3:55 Dodgers & Padres Reported to Spring Training!5:10 Former Mets GM Billy Eppler Suspended for Misusing the Phantom IL17:20 When Will Snell, Montgomery, Chapman, & Bellinger Sign? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hello and welcome to talking baseball. There's so much going on in the baseball landscape. We're going to talk about all of it. Let's do it. Let's talk some ball. Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. Oh. Hello and welcome to talking baseball.

Thank you very much for joining today. It's February 12th, 2024. The show is brought to you by Seat Geek. My name is Jimmy. His name is Jake. Trevor Plouffe, coming from California and producer BBD, behind. the dish. And as I said, there's a lot going on in the world of Major League Baseball. But that's the lie. Nothing's going on. It's the longest offseason ever. I was thinking about this the other day

and this offseason feels so long. I was like, we're still six weeks away from like opening day. Nothing's happened for a long time at this point. So we're going to talk all about that. Jake, how are you doing? James, Trev, Davis. I'm okay, getting better. Got my yearly sickness out of the way. But it was kind of nice. I got to Fanboy, you know, on my couch waiting for the episode to upload. But I'm feeling better.

Got a lot of love from the people. Thanks to you guys, so I appreciate that. And ready, you know, it's baseball season. I'm going to fire off that tweet right now, just like you did. I wasn't even saying that. Matt Stafford's, my friend. Call Matthew. What's up, Trout?

It's officially baseball. Yeah. I'm doing great. I don't know. There's nothing going on. I watched the Super Bowl last night. Yeah, with my friend Matthew. And Sean McVeigh.

How about that, Jake? How about that? He said the Niners should not have taken the ball in overtime. Agree. He said, defer because that's the only way to guarantee yourself four downs. I was like, I don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Let's just watch the game. No, he's a nice guy. I like him. A lot of energy. James, what's up, bro? How are you? I'm doing swell. Use that word twice today. I'm good. I'm good. We were a lot of discussion. What

should we talk about? A lot of conversations that we've already had. And we're doing the TPPs. So that's like kind of hugging, you know, about specific teams conversations. And there's, There's just nothing going on. We still got the Boris 4 out there. We got Epler getting suspended for the Phantom IL. We'll discuss that a little bit. And that's kind of it, man. There's, uh,

I hope we get something going because other than that, we're not going to get news until like an unfortunate spring training injury. I do like this part of the baseball season. Because this is when we get to see guys like on the mound for the first time, like in the bullpen. saw Yamamoto. Glass now. He's behind him.

Glass now. That video was awesome. That's an angle. Maybe we need to like discuss like during a broadcast. Like it was like down into the side right there. I don't know. I saw the shape of the pitch really well. I thought that was cool.

But I don't know. This is a, I think that the topic we're going to talk about first, I believe, Epler and this phantom aisle thing is actually pretty fascinating. I know it's not like news, news per se, but I do think it's an interesting discussion and just like the culture of baseball and I don't know how this this came about suddenly. Can I ask one Q really Qling?

Yeah. Why did the Dodgers report before everyone? They played that Korea game. Oh, there you go. They and the Padres are two days after them. So the Padres reported yesterday. Yeah.

Okay. I guess I like that. They're opening days like a week early. And I like the. that the Dodgers went two days before the Padres saying, oh. So you guys aren't prepared for Korea. Okay. That's fine.

Are we going to Korea? Let's go. Yeah. I think we're going to try and do like a live companion stream in the office for the first one. Yeah. 6 a.m. 6 a.m. Yeah.

Okay. That'll be fun. Is that 3 a.m. It's always interesting when they do that because then they come back and they play more spring training games, right? I think they will be. Yeah, they've done that before. Yeah, exhibition. Probably not at spring training, but yeah.

Weird. No twins teams never got the, uh, we're opening up. Only the cool teams get to go do that stuff. Australia games for you. I don't know. The A's used to do it. Yeah, but they were cool back in the day.

They kind of were in a weird way. Yeah, they've lost that a lot. You know, I don't want to get into that. Well, the Phantom I.L thing is bizarre because I am, I am of the opinion that I've seen elsewhere as well that this is like a cover-up or there's way more going on here. Like teams have been doing Phantom IL stuff

and I tweeted out and this tweet got kind of big so I got reading comprehension abilities from as dumb as you can get not understanding what I was saying. The Phantom IL became so common place that it was no longer like the boogeyman like players would use it like i posted a video of danny duffy saying like i'm i'm sucking right now i'm not going to go on the phantom d l he said because it was 2018 i'm going to pitch through it and i remember that came out i was like oh used to not even be able to

like say that you know like it would be like in trouble if you said those words the yankees put cc on the phantom i l uh every year's last three years because they wanted to arrest him for the playoffs and like at the end and I remember like in Boone's press conferences they would say well you know Cece he's probably going to use need a need some time at Tori coming up it was like very commonplace that you would use the IL the 10 day IL to give a guy some rest or uh avoid him going getting sent down or released or DFA but now Epler suspended because he misused it and I think it's interesting that only him him is suspended for this and he resigned on October 5th when this was brought to everyone's attention there was an investigation going on so he's not really currently employed by anybody

so you know I think that's part of this I think there are a couple different like ways to describe the phantomile there is so what you're talking about with cecy where like a player you know maybe does want to use it because um you know, he wants to rest before the playoffs, like a veteran like that, and you're trying to save some bullets, whatever. I don't think that's the problem. So maybe in the future,

they're going to have some sort of like player, like agreement, like contract or something like that. But it's the instances I think that they're trying to get rid of where a team will put you on the IL instead of exposing you to waivers and maybe you want to be put on waivers. Maybe you're blocked and you're not playing and you want to get out of a situation

and they're able to use your roster, without, you know, putting you on waivers and allowing another team to have the chance to get you. I think that is probably what they're trying to combat. But it is. I mean, yeah, everyone knows this is commonplace. And, you know, there are times, I hope I don't get, like, in trouble for this, but there are times where a player, you know, agrees to it. wants to do it

to get some mental clarity something of that nature so I don't know where this goes from here there needs to be now when you when you establish a punishment like this

essentially what you're doing now there needs to be like new language because this is still going to go on until there is a new rule put into place where you have to maybe everything needs to

be recorded and players have to sign off on it or whatever it may be, but there has to be some sort of change. You can't just have this punishment and then nothing new come out of it, essentially. I don't know if you do. I mean, like Jim said, there's part of this that doesn't pass a sniff test. Like, why is it just Epler? He's currently not employed. He resigned from the Mets. So if your team's World Series aspirations had Billy Epler and your first, you're front office for this season. You're out of luck. Not this year.

But I don't know. The whole thing's a little bizarre because we've seen the eye. Are you saying they put Billy Epler on the Phantom IEL? He kind of did. They kind of did. The other thing that's just, I don't want to say bizarre, it's the I.L has gotten to, like we've had players now use the I.L. For mental health.

So like, like what you're saying, we had guys that, you know, I think there's been a lot of veterans that you heard, you know, you can almost always spin like a lower back. Like, yeah, anyone over the age of 32, you can be like, ah, back's a little stiff. But now even with mental health, it's kind of what we've been saying, like, hey, if you're in a really bad slump or you're getting lit up, and, you know, we've seen guys either go to AAA and tinker with something while they're rehabbing on the IL, you can, like, literally say that now, and it's actually more coaching.

sure than it used to be. That I don't know. And I think the only thing that, again, the sniff test part here that's a little bizarre is, how many times is this a real issue? Because you need to be a guy that can't be sent up or called down, right? Because this ends up turning into performance. So if you're a player that's not performing, that a team needs to send up or send down, So you need to be out of your options.

Or five years with the club. Five years with the club. You know, you probably have signed your, like, or you've signed a contract like every big leaguer's dream. So you have to be a big leaguer that's made it to that point, underperforming so hard, which probably means you're on a veteran-laden team or a team that's competitive that they want to get you out of the mix for a little bit.

That I don't know. I guess, you know, this turns into a one. percent of the 1% thing for me. And also, let's say if I was, I'm a player on the Dodgers. I'm a veteran player on the Dodgers that's having a really tough go at it. And the team's kind of looking at me like, hey, we, you know, one for 31, man, we got to, you know, take a breather. Like, we're 20 games above 500.

It's July. It's okay. I don't know. I guess for me, the player that's fighting that. I don't think players are fighting it that much Well you just said like Danny Duffy He's fighting it there Well he's saying he doesn't want to go on

I thought you meant fighting it like getting Epler in trouble No not wanting to go on Yeah Because that's the only time it would push would come to shove there Go ahead James Well I mean the I mean not to out my Yankees And I don't know this for 100% Certainty

But in 2022 When September came around all the sudden, Nestor got put on the IL for 10 days because he had hamstring. And then right after they announced that, he was doing full sprints in the outfield. And then they took Wondie. But that's he agreed to it. Yes. Because that can be Nestor saying like I'm.

But that's, I think players do agree to it. Right. But the problem would be if they don't. I think the problem is like other, it's like other teams. saying, hey, this is like misuse of your roster. You have to get rid of a guy if you put them on there. I think it's minor league guys saying, hey, this is how we get called up. I don't think the player going on is upset about it.

As I say, I don't think I think this is other teams. But Duffy wasn't that example, right? I'm not going to the Phantom I L. He was just through it. Yes, yeah. But that's because he was just, yeah, he was bad. Right. But I'm just saying like the teams that are upset and, you know, outing Epler, like,

apparently there was a source that out at Epley. Anonymous letter. Anonymous letter. I think that's like rival execs or other teams that are getting upset or just someone that hates Billy Epler. Because, yeah, teams do this in agreements with each other all the time. Sometimes it helps guys if they're going to get cut. Like, I don't know.

I don't want to say a bunch of Yankees things because. they're the only team I follow closely enough, but anybody, like we were in the office talking to other fans. They're like, yeah, our team did this. Every team does it. So it's so weird that he got in trouble. I think there's one instance where maybe this is kind of having a negative impact all over the place and it's relievers.

You know, when you do your job and all of a sudden you pitch two innings and you're not available to pitch for the next three days, like, hey, we're going to phantom you for a week or whatever it is so we can get someone up here that can throw and we're not going to lose you through waivers. I don't think you'd want to do that if you're a reliever. You're like, no, I'll just take, how about I take a day off or two days off

and I just don't pitch? And then I'm back ready to go. You're going to take appearances away for me because I did my job. Like I think that's where players would have a problem with it. The other instances we're talking about where you're underperforming and maybe they're just trying to save you

and not run you through the waiver process. Like I guess some guys will be okay with that. that you know we lost trev he went robot i'm sorry guys made a lot of good points i don't know where i ended off there i was talking about relievers and how you know if you do your job and now all of a sudden they have to put you on the phantom i.l to get your roster spot so they can have other pitchers throw i think that is the one instance where you'd want to avoid the phantom i l instead of just taking a couple days getting back and you know being able to throw again and get your appearances up.

I mean, there's just a lot of different ways that teams have used the Phantom IEL, so it's interesting. Now I'm reading a story from The Post, obviously the most genuine news source around. Tommy Hunter's out there saying, like, he can't believe Billy Epler got sing in a lot.

I think he's one of the guys that Billy Epler played put on the Phantom IL, and Tommy Hunter's out here saying, he didn't care. Yeah, usually players keep that paycheck going. Very weird. But we'll see. We'll see if teams actually stop doing it.

You'll know if your team starts all of a sudden, if the 10-day I-L number gets drastically less, then I think we will know that teams are taking this serious and now, you know, they've heard the warning and they don't want it to happen to them. If not, then I think teams are saying, eh, that was something else. We're going to keep doing us.

So that's exciting. Remind me to keep track of that. come September 1st. Trevor Mays also quoted in the article saying that I liked Billy Epler a lot as a person. I thought he was a stand-up guy and he was always very honest with me and we always had very upfront conversations. So James, your conspiracy theory is starting to sound a little bit better to me. It's been the only play the whole time.

I think so. Yeah. Billy, what'd you do? Dude who resigns, gets suspended for something that everyone does. It just doesn't add up Yeah, it doesn't add up Yeah, everyone does that Make something else up, you know

I feel like we've had to put Jake on the fan of aisle On this show before Like, you're underperforming, get out of here For a couple, you know, take a break, kid That's why you got sick It's gonna be real IL Mental health's a joke to you guys That's great

Tweet that out Don't you tweet that out Don't you tweet the video you sent our group chat out Yeah, I wish Nobody replied, and I died after that for another two days because I was looking for energy for my friends. Got nothing. I gave it a thumbs down.

Yeah. Like a day later? I was grinding. I was head down, making videos. Yeah, bro. Some of us are playing the game. I was trying to get, you were about to say some of us were working, and then you knew that wasn't what you were doing,

so you pulled that back. That's good. That's good. Is Boris just waiting for spring training injuries? Trev, in your opinion right now? Like if I had to guess, and again, this is just an unsanctioned stupid guess, on Snell and Monty,

I would guess they have offers in from teams, the angels, the giants, teams like that. That might not be their first choice, might not be at the price they want to get. But they have like their top offer right now. There's no movement in the marketplace. And Boris is saying,

why don't we let spring training happen? We saw what happened when Kendall Graveman went down and then all of a sudden, Hayter goes and gets his money from the Astros. There's always injuries at spring training. If you're Boris is the best option right now, let's just let spring training, pitchers and catchers report,

let them get going and see if maybe the suitors that have the bigger wallets get delta blow to their rotation, because that's, in my opinion, the only thing that I can think of, that's somewhat logical and holding up this process. I think that's a fair point. I think that's been a play that he's used before as well. Like the waiting game is one way to shift the leverage into, you know, the player's favor in this instance.

But I also think there's the TV deals have held it up. Like the Rangers were engulfed in that as well. I believe there was some clarity that happened last Friday. There's a judge that ruled. I think Bally's is going to be doing a one-year stopgap contract. So that could be it as well. Like you want all suitors in. and they needed a little bit of clarity on

how much they're going to receive from the TV deals and what was going to happen. So that could be it. But I mean, yeah, there's, I do believe he probably has some offers and he thinks he can get more. And if he thinks he can get more, he's going to be in their ear saying, I think you can get more as long as we wait.

And if you hear that as a player and you have Scott Boris as your agent, you kind of have to trust it. Like, that's why you hire him in the first place is to maximize your earning potential. That's why I guys switch to him, the year before they enter free agency because some way or another

it gets into their head like hey this is the guy that's going to get you more money than anybody else like you got to go with them so I think that like I said if you sign Boris and that's your guy you kind of have to just trust the process the only one that doesn't trust the process

is Jose Altoube he's like no I'm going to sign because I want to but everybody else you know you're just going to say all right Scott do your thing stinks man Yeah. It's not fun for us. Because like you said, you know, Monty is one of those guys that switch to Boris midseason, and you wonder, wonder what was that speech? Is it, is it? I'm Scott Boris. I do this year in and

you're going to be good. Or, you know, does he hit him up front? Like, this free agency is going to be painful and we might have to go into spring. Or did he tell him like, dude, you're, you know, you're an innings guy who's peaking at the right time. Like this, you know, I, You just wonder, and I don't know how much it really has to be the perfect injury, right? Like it would have to be Dodgers rotation, Yankees rotation. I guess who are the teams that would someone would have to get hurt, you know, kind of soon, right? Like in the next two weeks? No, they could go half of spring training.

They do the board spring training. Last time he had this, that's what they did. But that's close to halfway almost. Yeah. You know? When was the last Boris spring training? Who were the pitchers? Lance Lynn was one of the pitchers.

Entering 2018, I believe, was the year they did the free agent spring training. True, free agent spring training. Lance Lynn signed March 12th. Yeah, and a Cobb was he the other one that signed really late? or guy guy If there is an injury in spring training I do believe it opens them up to the possibility of these like one year high AAV deals

from some of the teams that you wouldn't consider would actually be in the race like you know for instance I guess the twins are like a decent not a great example now because they're not really spending money but like a mid-market team like that saying hey we'll give you the one year at the AAV you want but I don't think they would do that without an injury so there's that aspect of it but

I honestly think he just hasn't got what he wants essentially yet he hasn't got the money that he wants or has promised his clients and the way that he gets guys like that James I don't think it's not Boris going up and talking to them ever I think it's like the players he represents kind of like saying like hey man

Like if you just casual conversation, hey, like if you want to, you're in line to get a massive deal. Like let's make sure you're getting the most. And then all of a sudden that gets put in your brain and it starts running wild in your brain. You try to put that thing on the fan of my elbow, but you can't do it. You get suspended. Update. Boris does not send his clients to the spring training for agency because he has his own facilities that they practice at. but I believe there were pitchers that went late.

I know Lance Lynn was one. Was Arieta one? Was there? Lynn and Cobb were the two main ones. Yeah. Cobb ended up getting a four-year contract on March 21st, so I don't know when they started that year. That was with the birds, and Jim, you'll like this.

You know, it's always fun to go back in time a little bit. 2018 on MLB trade rumors, you know, they announced the signing. Alex Cobb signed. They've got the innings. That was at 503 p.m. the next day at 9.38 a.m. Cobb has passed the notoriously stringent

Orioles physical. Nice. Good for him. What day was that? March what? That was the 21st. Opening day was the 29th. And Lynn was the... So Cobb was the last one. Lynn was the 12th.

And yeah, opening day 29th for the twins as well. And they opened up against a year. other how about that yeah yeah so these guys could go into march easily i think they will go into march and you're looking at the yankees dodgers braves astros blue jays what about the position players i i get the pitch pitchers are going to get hurt i have no idea what's going on with match i mean like i is boris just busy with the other guys like yeah i don't know i it's happened before You know, when Mustakis and Hosmer had Boris that same free agent year, like, Hosmer kind of got all the attention.

And I think Moose settled for like a one near six. You lost money from the qualified offer. It feels like one of these guys are going to get hurt, and that sucks. Who's going to get hurt? What do you mean? Contractual. Contractually. Okay, okay.

Worst contract than they thought was possible. A lot of fan of my L talk today. Snell just won the sigh. That's what That's what I forget if it was people in the office Or you know The people in the street

Always coming up to me and talking ball But they were You know what? It was probably Yankee fans That they were like You know what Shouldn't it Snell just take like a one-year deal? No

He hit free agency After winning the Cy Young This is it This is it This shouldn't be This is what players dream of that no he shouldn't take a one year.

Is it just enough for teams to be like man, the style of pitching is different too much we don't want the walks we don't think you can just continue to strike people out at the rate that you do, have the width percentages at the rate that you do, is that coming into play? Like our team's saying like that you can't continue

with the way you pitch? Yeah, I think so Because he has an elite elite elite Like whiff rate On two of his pitches So that's how he can get out of jams Obviously everyone that listens to the show understands that But is that a thing

Our team saying like in the future We don't think the peripherals are going to hold up like that And here's our offer And Boris is saying no Look what he just did with his You know sub freaking three And Salyang He's technically an outlier

who just won his second Sion. I'd want him pitching on my team. Man, that twins move. Love my guy, Lance Lynn. They released Annie Ball Sanchez to make room for Lynn. 2018, Hannibal Sanchez went on to start 25 games for the Braves. Nationals? Braves. To a 283 ERA that year.

In 2018, he did. Yeah. Anabal snuck some seasons out at the end Dude, he was nasty That's funny In my book But nasty Oh yeah, you saw him as

Yeah, I guess in my head I still have old man Anabal Slinging it for the Nats And apparently the Braves But you saw The Tigrays You saw him when he was the guy I mean on that pitching staff

He kind of wasn't the guy But he also was That pitching staff was gross dude How's your 257 ERA in 20 13 and a ball put some seasons together kid and then the twins traded for Oter Rizzi

in that spring training twins have made some moves man so I think they're I think that's what they're weighing out on the pitchers but yeah I don't know Belling Berlinger and Chapman what's going on there I mean Cubs fans have been penciling Belling Belling Belling Bellinger in

but I don't know Billy's rumors are hot on belly I like that aspect I think there's no rumors because there's nothing doing right now. They're just waiting. It's actually shocking that we have four guys like this. The Boris four. Like real impact players that aren't

either getting what they thought they were going to get or aren't getting offers for some reason. Let's get one team in on this. Braves. Boom. Braves for who? Pitching? For all four. I want all four to go to one team now. What team would that change? Rockies.

What team would that change? What do you mean? Well, we're all four. I want all four to go. Well, what team would those four take from, what's the worst team that could take on those four and now their playoff contenders? Meet the Mets, greet the Mets. No one with lesser around them than that? They go to the White Sox,

are the White Sox now much better? I'm just naming teams that we did for TPPs ready. Yeah? The Reds. Okay. A couple savvy vet pitchers. They need that to go along with the young studs. You got all these short stops playing all over the field.

Just knock a few of them into the outfield that Matt Chapman at third base. You basically have a bunch of center fielers and short stops running in the outfield. Okay. Cody Bellinger hitting 50 bombs in Cincinnati. Let's go. Philly. Philly's pretty good, though. Right.

Well, I'm trying to find the worst team. Right. I'm trying to think of, I mean, this is. I mean, this isn't a real situation. This is not at all. Reds are probably going to win the Central anyway, so they don't need that. But I don't know.

Where's Peter... R-I-P Peter Siedler, man. Now, that would have been... Would have kept Soto. Would have kept Soto. Yeah. All right. Hopefully we get some news, man.

We need these guys to sign. I don't think we're getting... Maybe Chapman Bellinger. I don't think we're getting the pitchers for a while. Unless they get... fed up. I would guess the pitchers first if they want to not have to start the year late like Lanson Cobb had to.

It's like spring training is for the pitchers. Got to build up at some point. I think maybe hopefully everyone learned their lesson from that and then COVID and then lockout. Like we had three years in a row 2020, 2021. And then that 2018 where we're, pitchers like didn't get full springs

and everyone kept saying like does it go to full spring? I'm like I don't know can't you manipulate that yourself toss some innings at Boris camp you should be able to as a pitcher yes get on the mound to throw some balls bro that's all you guys do

Monty doesn't care because he's kind of he doesn't care Snell doesn't care he's standing on his business in Fortnite right now Like it's not a problem. It's not a problem. Let me know when I need to strike people out.

I think he's having a baby too, so congrats. I think so, congrats, maybe. When did Harper sign? Because he was the one free agent that was later in spring training. Was it March? Like middle spring training, yeah. Because I remember he came out and he was like, he was the one that told Boris, I want one team,

I want no options. I want no, uh, whatever, like gimmicks. Like, I just want to straight up contract. I want to sign with the team, retire with the team, and then like let's get it done. Signed March 2nd. March 2nd.

Okay. Position player. Like the thing about the pitcher specifically, if they don't sign in the next like two weeks and now they're like start of the season could be altered. Then I'm like, then I have no idea. I have it agreed to Feb 28th. You know, it's a leap year, so we got extra time now.

There's extra February. With manager, Gabe Kapler, excited about the Bryce Harper signing. We all were. I was in that clubhouse, baby. That's awesome. Taking a roster spot from you. It's tough. Yeah, I didn't make the team.

I went home. I never played baseball. Your fingerprints. In that organization, though. Juice to time. Oh, yeah. I got a little nervous. When we were on the Phillies backfield and you walked out to the team,

stretch. I got half nervous for you for a second. Just walked out and just like there was a chance a coach was going to be like, no, dude. No, I got the juice like that. You still have the juice. You have the juice. Topper even was excited to see you. He looks like guy doesn't remember faces. Or he remembers all faces. It's a crossword puzzle guy. So he remembers you.

Well, that's the news. There's none of it. Thanks for joining us. I had fun. Check out Blitzball Battle. 4. Trev and his brother versus me and Jake. Game 2. Starts February 18th. Jake sucks.

No soup for you. Seinfeld out? It wasn't really our sign fell down. We need to lean into that. Keep a cup, fan of the warehouse. You should be too. Subscribe. Subscribe.

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