Talking Simpsons - Talking Simpsons - A Milhouse Divided With Ian Jones-Quartey and Toby Jones

Episode Date: August 22, 2018

Ian Jones-Quartey and Toby Jones are executive producers on Cartoon Network's OK K.O.! Let's Be Heroes, and they're joining us LIVE in-person to discuss one of the most momentous Simpsons episodes of all time! We all borrow a feeling as Milhouse's parents get divorced, and we struggle with dignity, sweet Fannie Addams, dry crackers, and smashing chairs over your father's back! (Plus Ian and Toby will share with us some behind-the-scenes secrets of OK K.O., Steven Universe, Regular Show, and MORE!) So hop in your racecar bed and get ready for a patio party! Support this podcast at Patreon.com/TalkingSimpsons!

I heartily endorse this event or product. Ahoy, ahoy everybody. Welcome to Talking Simpsons, the only podcast that's good for keeping down the urges. I'm your host, Gudgeer College graduate Bob Mackey, and this is our chronological exploration of The Simpsons. Who else is here with me today? Henry Gilbert, and I helped myself to a few umbrellas. Who else is here? Intern at KZUG, Toby Jones. Awesome, and who else? In one of your little bedtime stories, Jones Cordy. And today's episode is A Millhouse Divided. Can I come home later? There's not going to be a home later. Oh, okay.

Today's episode aired on December 1st, 1996, and as always, Henry will tell us what happened on this mythical day in real world history. Oh my god! Oh boy, Bobby! Model actress Angie Everhart weds actor Ashley Hamilton. Tiny Tim passes away at the age of 71, and Glenn Close plays Cruella de Vil in the live-action 101 Dalmatians. Classic.

So wait, was Angie Everhart in the Dennis Miller horror vehicle Bordello of Blood? Ooh, you know, I think she was. I'm pretty sure she was. It was one of her brief acting appearances. That was a film that my parents walked in on me watching, and it was very uncomfortable. We're very ashamed of you.

Dennis Miller? Tiny Tim, R.I.P. So sad. That first episode of SpongeBob where they play that Tiny Tim song in it, that made the series for me just from the episode one. I mean, I mostly know him as a joke on things from the 90s about someone with bad musical taste would have his albums. In fact, that was a joke on Wacking Day

when they needed bass-heavy music. Oh, that's true. Yeah. Tiny Tim. Yeah. And Alvin and the Chetmunks, I believe, too. Yeah. And a Castrato Christmas.

That was the third one. The 101 Dalmatians. As a kid, I had a Dalmatian as a very little kid, so I was way into the animated one, and I was there for day one on the live action film and it was It's alright. It doesn't include a all the ads had a scene where

Glenn Close falls into a giant vat of hair. Yeah. That's the big highlight scene. I feel like all 90s kids movies had to end with the bad guy falling into a vat of something. Yeah. Basically every Beethoven movie has that. Yes. Or just a pool which is a vat of water. Basically every Beethoven movie has that. Or just a pool which is a vat of water.

Home Alone ruined all of them. Every kid's film for the 90s after Home Alone had to almost murder the villains. That's true. The entire second act of Three Ninjas is just a mini Home Alone. It's just like, I guess that's what you want. You mentioned 101 Dalmatians

anime and my first thought is just the Disney TV series. Oh, yeah. Much less well-known. Yeah, the weird jumbo TV series done by Jim Jenkins. I'm thinking of the Disney Afternoon one. Is there a different one? Yeah, that one. Oh, that one.

Okay. Is that where they live on the farm? Yeah, they live on the farm and they have a chicken. Wait, what is the Jim Jenkins connection? He show ran it because uh it was made at jumbo after they finished the new day and they gave them 101 dalmatians to run that blows my mind because it looks nothing like his art no in any way yeah it's very strange yeah and i didn't know that i thought he just vanished after the new doug movie

no you also did pb and j otter right? That's true. Oh, yeah. So many classics. I've got the Blu-ray. You probably remember that more than Doug. We make fun of Doug on here, but only because I loved Doug. And we all are Doug. Yeah.

Look, I don't want to get into it too much, but after spending, I swear to God, 10 years looking for it, someone finally put the final episode of Disney's Doug on YouTube recently. It was like a religious experience. I was really happy for you that day. looking for it. Someone finally put the final episode of Disney's Doug on YouTube recently. It was like a religious experience. I was really happy for you that day. Every like six months, I'd be like, I'm still looking for that episode because it's the canon finale to the Doug version. So I want our very super special guests to introduce themselves.

You might notice there's a different room tone happening. That's because we're in Los Angeles and we got some hot shots on the podcast. Let's have them introduce themselves and talk about what they do. Let's first talk to Ian here. Ian, who are you? Hey, my name is Ian Jones Cordy. I work in the animation industry. I worked on several shows like the Venture Brothers, Adventure Time, Steven Universe. And then I created my own show called OK KO. Yeah, I just show run a show by day. It takes a lot of work. But the thing is, I'm a huge fan of animation. So honestly, every day is my birthday. It's great.

Yeah, we interviewed you a year ago on our Patreon. And you're also a voice actor on OK KO. We're big fans of the show and Talking Simpsons. Thank you so much. Yeah, I got into voice acting. And I get to work with amazing voice actors like Jim Cummings. Oh, God. One of my favorite voice

actors and yeah being in the booth it's definitely it's a very different experience because yeah people get to tell me what to do toby included uh just like give me uh tons of different like could you do more like this and i'm like okay toby finally the tables have turned i will tell you so my hometown comes up a lot on this show because we talk a lot about personal stories uh jim cummings is from my hometown. Oh, wow. And if you want to see a grown man cry or just break down, just say Youngstown, Ohio in front of Jim Cummings and see how he responds.

Oh, okay. Yeah, all right. He got out of that place when he was a teenager. We'll do that next time. Please do. I don't want you to ruin him. I just want to see how he responds. So Toby, please explain who you are.

I'm Toby. I'm the co-executive producer of OK KO. Before that, I wrote and storyboarded on regular show for about five seasons. Awesome. So Toby, please explain who you are. I'm Toby. I'm the co-executive producer of OK KO. Before that, I wrote and storyboarded on Regular Show for about five seasons. And before that, I made zines. Cool. Yeah. Kind of like a fairy tale cast.

Like you went straight from zines via social media even to Regular Show? I mean, it's funny how it feels like so long ago now. But at the time, yeah, I had graduated from art school doing like film and I was just doing comics and stuff on the side and, you know, working in a movie theater and a bakery trying to get my stuff made. Nobody gave a shit. Nobody wanted to make anything that I was doing at all. But then I was watching regular show and adventure time obsessively. And this was like, Twitter is new at this time. And JG was like, I'm looking for storyboard artists.

And so I immediately messaged him on Facebook, no less, which is like to now it sounds insane this is crazy if someone did that to me i would be so unhappy with them but i reached out to him and i was like look at my comics you should consider me and then he sent me a board test and within a month i was moving to los angeles to work on the show yeah i mean don't be afraid to reach out blindly i think that's how we got ian on the show and a lot of our interviews like don't be afraid be afraid. The first time I met Ian was at San Diego Comic Con. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Yeah.

And I was like starstruck getting to talk to all the Steven Universe people. You guys were like fresh off the stage doing like. Yes, that's right. One of those massive panels. Yeah. Like big musical panel. And then you were the first. It was like a roundtable thing.

And you came to my table first. And then after you said like, you mentioned you've listened to me on a podcast. I was like, what? You can't be in my world. That ruined me for the rest of the day. Well, before both of you leave,

before both of you leave, we have spec scripts about two podcasters who are also ducks. We think it would be great in a, you know, okay. KO Steven universe sandwich on cartoon network. If you're into ducks, that's more of a Disney thing.

Oh man, we got the wrong guests on this show. Damn it. Alex Hirsch. Let's get him. OK KO Steven Universe sandwich On Cartoon Network If you're into ducks That's more of a Disney thing Oh man That's true We got the wrong guest On this show Damn it Alex Hirsch Let's give him We'll workshop that

Okay There's other animals Don't worry I can't draw so If it's a monkey In the mid 2000s Then Cartoon Network Is the place

Oh man God I need a time machine And a better pitch I could ask a million questions About Adventure Brothers And Steven Universe And regular show

But I do want to ask about OK KO Because that's Your current gig right now I love it ask a million questions about adventure brothers and steven universe and regular show but i didn't want to ask about okay kio because that's your current gig right now like i yeah i love it there were just like five new episodes released like yeah and on the channel which were the point prep stuff so cool thanks fucking kurt angle like that's one of my favorite stars not just guest stars oh no it's fine like wow it's just that's perfect it was amazing it was one of those things that came together we talked about it a lot because we had this character chip damage who he's a big superhero but i was like i don't want him to sound like

the normal voice actor kind of sound he needs to have like i don't know something to him just have like a very unique rhythm a unique rhythm like yeah it's to sound kind of different within the world of the show and uh working with wrestlers is really hard because they have very tight contracts like they can only appear in wwe related things uh wwe related media you know and uh we were just lucky enough that current angle was technically retired yep for like a moment and we reached out to him and he was like sure I'll do it and then like as we were recording he like

became an active wrestler again and we were like I figure there's some sort of sweetheart deal because those WWF guys they team up with Scooby Doo and Fred Feastone and the Jetsons and whatnot so those get to be like wwe sanctioned yeah you know things so i mean we could add wwe onto our title it would be good to do that

i mean we should do a tv movie ok ko meets wwe meets uh gordon ramsay uh yes i'll write that one down but i i love ok ko i mentioned everybody. I love OK KO for one reason, because it's like it's a really fun like action kid show. But it's also there's so many like references to animation that you don't I don't think you need to get to love the show. But they're there. One of my favorites is in Let's Watch the Pilot. And the Kennedy Toons reference. Thank you. Oh, my God.

That was like a joke how many years you've had that joke for years i know it was like 2013 and we were like meeting at a coffee shop being like oh what do we do with the show and you were just like i have this idea we go back to the pilot and it's like this and i was just like yes i feel like glenn kennedy is somewhere animating that dance right now even in his sleep he can't stop drawing Those little kicks Yeah That was so hilarious And the one right after that Also Mystery Science Fair

2 2001X Yeah Yeah That started watching I was like Oh this is just fun And then it turns into

A Dexter's Lab thing So So gradually I didn't even notice It started That one It started small It was like

In the story It's like It's kind of like Dexter's Lab thing But at the storyboard handout To our boarders We were just like Just go in all Just go Yeah Lean in if you want to Don't hide it Just go all the way And so the story it's like that's kind of like dexter's lab thing but at the storyboard handout to our boarders we were just like just go in all just go yeah lean in if you want to

don't hide it just go away the storyboarders uh ryan and parker actually like they did a thing where you're watching it you don't realize it but then slowly but surely it becomes more and more like a dexter's lab episode yeah just and then luckily we work with a sound design team who actually did sound design on those old shows. So we like got to pull all the sound effects from Dexter's lab and just like sneak them all in there. And as a huge fan of that show is just amazing. It was also like the episode is like a weird experiment because like it is that, but it's also like a very emotional episode at the same time. So it's like it's fun to play with the tones like that and do things that seem like they shouldn't fit together but yeah it's um the show is really inspired by the

simpsons actually especially for me i know season one always gets a bad rap from people but there is a thing about it that i love which is just that you can see them figuring out what the show is as they're making it and there's something really exciting about that because every episode you're like oh they got to something else now like now the show's like this and then now the show's like this like i just wanted that feeling of like oh you never know what kind of show it's going to be when you turn it on yeah we watch the shorts and they get a really bad rap and they're very different than the show but it is fun to watch that slow evolution it's like oh the rooms have corners now and crusty is invented but i did want to ask about he didn't do a lot on the show but uh we're big fans of anime here on the network oh yeah and

i wanted to ask about hiroyuki imaishi oh yes who storyboarded your opening how did that connection happen like oh my god he's amazing we just did we did kill a kill for what a cartoon our other podcast we did um fully coolly which he did a lot of storyboards on that and like i like how did that happen i really need to know he's one of my my heroes. And, uh, yeah, I just, it was, it was just a pipe dream that we had. And I randomly ran into someone who, um, his name is Will Fang. And at the time he worked for Trigger's parent company and I just like pitched him on this idea and he was like, yeah, that, I don't know, maybe he'd be interested sometimes they do stuff uh we'll see and i actually visited japan and at the same time we were also working on a deal for um

takafumi hori who's another really oh yeah uh great trigger animator to do some sequences on steven universe oh man and so while we were in that room uh we were just you know it was great because we basically just got in a room with them and we just talked we just kind of shot the shit for like a couple hours about what it's like being an animator i was like it was always it was funny because we were like in america it's like this and they'd be like what in japan it's like this we do this and then i'd be like what no way we do it this way and then we just started talking and then eventually you know i i worked up the courage to ask him i she like hey i'm working on this thing maybe i'll ask you about something later uh i don't know and then i wasn't really sure he kind

of gave like a response like he'd be interested but i couldn't tell if he was real about it and then like months later when we started the show i I reached out and he was all in for it. That's great. You can really tell it's his work too. He's amazing. Yeah, we just kind of gave him a soundtrack for the, like we had the music and we were just like, here's the music, like do something.

Yeah, I mean the show didn't exist at that point. And so we were just like, hey, you know, we trust you. We love your work. And, you know, we also talked a lot in that. We had like a Skype call. We talked a lot about just like philosophy of what we value and like in animation and you know obviously we have a lot in common when it comes to that and he just kind of like took the basic concepts of the show and managed to boil it all down so with with such skill

especially considering again the show was not out yet we talked about a lot about you know the show having flexible models and sort of the final product reflecting the animators who actually made it and how that was really important to us. And he talked about how at Trigger they really tried to do a lot of the same thing, but they had a tough time with it sometimes because being that flexible, it's actually kind of difficult because you have to keep in constant contact with the animators who are making it and say, okay, well, it's actually kind of difficult because you have to keep in constant

contact with the animators who are making and say, okay, well it's actually supposed to be like this, like do this thing that's funny and seems wrong. It's actually right. You know, like asking them to do like a Kennedy cartoon sequence, they'll be like,

wait, do you really want this? And we have to be, we have to give like special directions and be like, yes it is. It actually takes like a ton of time. do you really want this? And we have to be, we have to give like special directions and be like, yes, it is. It actually takes like a ton of time. It's like a lot of emotional energy because like the quality control on a lot

of shows is based on how like correct it looks. Yes. And on shows like this, the quality control really comes down to just like taste and opinion of just like what we think feels right and what we like. And it's like, you know, we of course we'll go in and redraw stuff if,

if we think it should look what we like. And it's like, you know, we, of course we'll go in and redraw stuff if, if we, if we think it should look a certain way. Uh, but having like every single shot and be like a different decision that has to be made of like, whether it's correct for us and our taste is, is quite challenging. It ends up taking a lot of time.

And she totally got that. And so like he worked that into the actual, uh, direction of the intro, which he's storyboarding. Awesome. Yeah. Yeah.

Amazing. The Simpsons must've been an early tune in your lives then right oh yeah absolutely you guys are also i feel a kinship with me and bob and you guys in that you are simpsons fans but also anime fans and i feel like that's not those two don't intersect a ton not really yes the simpsons is just not popular in Japan at all. It was funny being in Japan, and I remember I drew, I was staying with a family at an Airbnb, and they were looking at my sketchbook, and there was like a drawing of Barton there,

and the kid was like, oh yeah, C.C. Lemon. Like that was his like only reference point for The Simpsons whatsoever. I was in Japan a month ago at Nakano Broadway, and I was looking for Simpsons stuff, like what is the presence of The simpsons whatsoever i was in japan a month ago at nakano broadway and i was looking for simpsons stuff like what is the presence of the simpsons i found one thing it was the doormat of a shop and it just had the simpsons logo on it with the family and it was filthy there was nothing else simpsons related it was the original simpsons mania yeah yeah i found way more garfield toys in japan Oh boy. That's worldwide appeal. Yeah.

I mean, yeah, it's true about Simpsons and anime, like the fans not necessarily crossing over all that much. I would say Cartoon Network is mostly people like that. Yeah, it's true.

That's where they're all situated and like, it's true. Like when I got into anime was like right when I got stopped watching The Simpsons for a while and I was just like, you know, I was like,

okay, I grew up with The Simpsons but look, real sophisticated cartoons are anime, South Park, Family Guy and of course, The Crown the crown jewel the clerks animated series and then like when the dvds came out of the simpsons is when i kind of went back it was like all the way it was like a rediscovery completely basically yeah those dvds were a huge gift to yeah like college me becoming becoming very critical about everything like you know analyzing every single thing and actually to this day i uh do like periodic rewatches of the simpsons based on

uh where i am like re-watching the simpsons in college since i have now started working in animation and have run a lot of shows re-watching it now is a completely different experience because i can see all the choices that get made in every episode and it really um it really impresses me when i see like clever reuse of old shots like uh how sparing the soundtrack is or how overbearing the soundtrack is these are all like things that we think about in our day-to-day and uh watching a show i mean a show like this too millhouse divided uh was really fun because not only does it have like a lot of good jokes,

but there's a lot of great like sound design moments too. And just animation design moments as well. Yeah. We pick up on so much more of that when we, we don't actually watch the video when we're doing the clips. If you're listening at home, we just listen to the audio and you pick up on so much more when you're not watching it on a TV,

but Milhouse divided who chose this episode. was it both of you together deciding upon this yeah we can confer about it we basically we both looked at the list and we like almost at the same time we're like millhouse divided yeah it's just it's actually yeah it's one of my favorite episodes yeah it's really good and it's it's just really one of one of the best of this era in terms of like breaking the status quo having something to say and just like really filling out characters that we knew nothing about this is a real breaker of an episode yeah we we kind of we talked about this a little before but that this season seven i felt was them like playing in the playground and now this is them breaking their toys

it's so tragic in the episode where Kirk Van Houten gets a name. It's the same episode where he gets a divorce. He has never referred to as Kirk before this episode. There was one cut scene in Treehouse of four or six in which he's worried about Milhouse getting a two spaghetti dinners in one night. Sorry, two spaghetti meals in one day. The cut scene is we're all worried about that.

Kirk. Uh, I think, uh, Ned says that, or some Skin i think uh ned says that or some skinner says that somebody says that but uh so he is named in this episode only to be destroyed it's such a great episode of like reveling in sadness it's just true it's such a sad episode the um and the the it's funny that it's a you know oakley weinstein episode because some of the like

cruelty of it you know really makes me feel like oh am i watching like a merkin show especially like the ending almost feels like merkin you know yeah the the real screw you turn at the end where it's like oh yeah it's a sitcom things will reset no uh but i would have to say that this episode was written by steve tompkins as we always point out that doesn't mean he wrote every joke or every word but it is his sole credited script i do have to say that um bill oakley and josh weinstein said multiple times like he is sort of the unsung hero of their seasons like he had the best jokes in the room he was like doing so much so if you see that he only wrote one script that doesn't mean he didn't

do anything for the show like i do want to call him out he's also he also wrote for the critic alice tompkins is named after him so there you go i think he really gets it the uh he gets the sadness of it very much i think last season you can see them starting to be like we really love millhouse and hank azaria's kirk is hilarious before every line of dialogue it is great yeah i also noticed that um i think the director was stephen dean moore yeah you're right and like i looked back at his credits and I noticed that he, this was only like the fourth episode he did,

but like there was like two other ones. There was Marge Be Not Proud and Round Springfield, which are both like kind of emotional episodes. And I think it's interesting that he kind of got these like emotional sort of heavy hitter episodes. There's like little touches that are like a little more filmic and like sad yeah no no yeah i mean the shot of the hot dogs uh breaking apart the sink is just like cinematic yeah i was uh i looked at his imdb and was surprised like how steven more who just directed an episode like they aired an episode he directed

this year of the simpsons he's still with show. And he has worked all the way back to the 80s of Captain N, Real Ghostbusters, Brave Star, and Denver the Last Dinosaur. Oh, boy. He had less money to play with. But I should say Stephen Dean Warren also was on The Critic. He directed the episode From Chunk to Hunk. So both Tompkins and Moore moved from The Critic to The Simpsons in that ecosystem.

Another sad boy. Another thing I want to say about this episode is that I dislike that they undid it later. I like that it's a seemingly permanent change. And then at least they gradually undid it. But that they eventually got back to that status quo is just, I don't know. That's because they had to tell all those great happy kirk stories it's a shame because yeah them broken up uh they became better characters um way more funny uh having kirk is a reliable sad sack yeah it's a great engine for jokes kirk was their pre-gill character before they really leaned into gill kirk was the guy who got his arm cut off

oh yeah all the abuse uh that was one of the first moments i remember watching uh when it aired and being like oh i'm depressed yeah it's like the simpsons supposed to make me happy and sad because this guy's arm broke off and was taken off for no reason and then just later it's in a sling it's like i guess they reattached they reattached it i guess he just put in a glass of milk or however that works and And also that Luann got to be one of the very few single women of Springfield too. They could do way more jokes with her instead of just Edna being the only single and ready to mingle lady in Springfield.

I mean, they eventually even broke a poo up for a while. Yeah, that's true. I think from Manjula together. I don't know. We haven't seen him. No,

no. Yeah. But I guess let's get into the episode at the beginning here. For sure. If you really wanted us to be neater, you'd serve us out of one long bowl. You're talking about a trough. We're not going to eat from a trough. And another thing, it's only 515.

Why are you in your underwear? Hey, this ain't the Ritz. At least let's have a civilized conversation, shall we? Lisa. It's only 5.15. Why are you in your underwear? Hey, this ain't the Ritz. At least let's have a civilized conversation, shall we? Lisa, how was school? How was what? What? School, school.

It's not time for school. I know it's not. I'm going into the dining room to have a conversation. Anyone who wants to join me is welcome. Hello, Marge. How's the family? I don't want to talk about it. Mind your own business. Keep it down in there, everybody.

Marge can't even fake a pleasant conversation. I thought it was like everybody. No one is paying attention to her. It's clear. My family, if we ate together, was in front of the TV tv i think we realized like we we don't want to look at each other yeah i mean when the simpsons was on was on thursdays that's we would sit and watch like the simpsons we want the simpsons but

then it was wheel of fortune it just happens something uh because me and toby re-watched this episode together before and one thing we noticed is that there's a there's an interestingly shifting pov throughout the episode yeah first act really seems to be marge's pov of like marriage and the family and then in the second act it's kind of like it's just like a variety pack yeah it's kind of like it mostly barfs on the concept just like riffs on the concept and then third act it's really homer i mean yeah that's the main thing that i noticed going back to the simpsons after making especially like 11 minute cartoons like an 11 minute cartoon you know it really needs to be one story that focuses on one thing yeah but the simpsons like in its prime now as well but in its prime you'll watch a classic simpsons episode and

be like man the structure is just anything yeah it's just like whatever they thought was funny in any given moment and just remains all over the place yeah it just remains compelling because of the quality and because it's so funny well i don't know if henry remembers this but didn't oakley and weinstein the showrunners for this season in seven didn't they sort of regret sort of shifting the focus to homer and marge at the end they bemoaned a little on the commentary but i think they they ultimately are happy they did it i i'm kind of two minds on that too i mean the show is called the simpsons so it i guess it should come back to the simpsons and maybe they felt it was masturbatory to focus on kirk for the whole time but man there were going to be so many more great kirk van houten

and sad jokes if they hadn't done that yeah we talked about that too because like it you know you need you kind of expect that grounding of the simpsons and we'll get into this when we get to those parts of the episode but like you know the thing it becomes in act three is a much more conventional and kind of expected like those the beats that it starts to hit in act three are a little more normal for the simpsons we just basically we're like i get why it's the simpsons maybe i wish it would have been a different thing that they landed on yeah three because but also i feel like they could have just had it be the Milhouse family story. Well, it's interesting because so much of the episode

is leading up to the gut punch at the end. And I don't think you could have that gut punch if Act 3 was really investing you in Kirk's struggle. And if they did that story, then the gut punch wouldn't be as funny. Do you think it would feel crueler crueler i mean yes it would okay i mean but it would be yeah it would feel crueler and i guess like you would be like oh man i guess the show really wants me to be invested in uh millhouse's parents and their marriage and they do the thing that i think is nice which is they shift focus so

the audience is like okay i guess that wasn't actually important and i wonder too if it was you remember on who shot mr burns they really didn't want uh they oakley weinstein really didn't want it to be maggie right and it was they said that it was jim brooks was very insistent like the show's the simpsons. A Simpson has to have done this. And I wonder if it was a similar thing of Brooks telling him, like, you've got to focus it back on The Simpsons. It could have been an executive decision from Brooks or Groening. But it was good.

I like where it goes. I mean, it is The Simpsons show. But I was curious what you animators think of this. Like, there's a lot of jokes in The Simpsons where you can tell an obvious zoom in is about to be zoomed out. I think they handled this one better than some other ones. That one still gets me. Because in the establishing shot, they show just Bart's head. They hide it just right behind the TV.

You don't notice he's not wearing a shirt. I like that. Yeah, I like that stuff. I would say it's executed perfectly. Yeah, and actually it kind of just becomes the fabric of the show uh you watch it and you notice uh the line quality is super big you know usually that means like oh the camera is basically fielded in really close in a shot so you're like ready for that pullout and that's just what it is something we deal with on our show too because a lot of times when layouts

are drawn uh you can actually redraw a layout when it's zoomed in like that but that's only if you spend a lot of time in the close-up and then pull out it's really just easier to just draw it normal size and zoom in on it i don't really i don't really mind that either it's just like fun and i also love seeing like the line quality and the cell shadows yeah you work in digital animation because it's a necessity now and you have to do that but like how do you feel like i love the physicality of the cell flares and just like you can kind of feel everything is made by hand and i i do miss that even though it is a lot more work and a lot more expensive yeah i mean it's you know it's unfortunate yeah that we don't get to work

on cells but at least we work in a completely hand-drawn way yeah that's true even though they do scan it into computers after but yeah it's it's a shame yeah the last like one of the last like american shows on cells is like maybe like that almost last season of ed ed and eddie and it's gorgeous oh man the actual like the actual like cell shadows and the lines and the coloring it's just like amazing but then you look at it and you're like there's no way that people pay would pay for this now like it's just incredible that they did yeah i i very much miss of course the look of analog animation and you know shows like okay ko have to find other ways to force the audience to never forget that it's made by human beings with hands and not made by computers. Yeah.

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we've ever recorded, and I thank Ian and Toby so much for giving us their time while we were down in la podcasting it up we here talking simpsons are huge fans of their work and we've covered it extensively in our other podcasts for instance if you listen to what a cartoon you can find our episode where we deconstruct the first two episodes of steven universe where ian jones cordy was an executive producer also if you go to patreon.com slash talking

simpsons you can find our exclusive full interview that we did with ian about his career and okko it's in full on the patreon and you can find that along with so many other interviews at patreon.com slash talking simpsons and if you support us there for just five dollars a month you'll be able to hear every episode a week early and ad free you could be listening to date with density right now you could also be listening to our exclusive interviews with so many simpsons writers including our most recent one with dan mcgrath where he not only tells us about working on simpsons seasons four five and six but also on saturday night live gravity falls mission hill and king of the hill you can hear all of those things at patreon.com slash talking simpsons head there right now five dollars a

month and you can listen to it all hundreds of hours of podcasts are waiting for you after listening to us talk with ian and toby about their previous work in this week's Talking Simpsons, maybe you'd be interested in checking out Steven Universe or the Venture Brothers or regular show. All of those shows are on Hulu. You can get a free 30-day trial of Hulu if you head over to tiny.cc slash tshulu. That's T as in talking, S as in Simpsons. Tiny.cc slash tshulu. If you go there, you can sign up for a 30-day free trial of the service,

and you can watch all of those shows. And a little bit of money gets kicked back to your buddies at Talking Simpsons. So if you want that 30-day free trial again, head to tiny.cc slash TSHulu. Even Lisa can't give Marge any conversation. It's like, it's not time for school. I'm sad we don't get a taste of what they're watching. I think if Gene and Reese won, they'd open.

We would open with a show. Some movie or TV pair. There's not enough time. I love any time Lisa gets to be kind of crappy. Just like a shitty kid. Just like her brother. It's great. Or when she tries to ask Marge for licorice on top

of complimenting her for changing her mind on immigration. It's fun when she gets to be a kid. Sometimes they write her. It's a balance, I think, with Lisa to write her either too old or too young. It is more cruelty for Marge. You can't even win over Lisa with her idea.

You really should have her back in this. So then we get some ruminations on marriage. Homer, is this the way you pictured married life? her idea. Who really should have her back in this? So then we get some ruminations on marriage. That's hate having parties. The toilet always gets backed up. I don't care if the sink shoots sludge. We're having a party. That's true about parties. He's reading lotto pics. Yeah, hot lotto pics with his classic Homer reading glasses. Oh, they'll show up again in a great scene.

Actually, I countered it when watching it. Three times he wears the glasses in this episode. They're really getting into those glasses in these seasons. They're hilarious. They must have been the most glasses in a season. This is also one of the realer moments in it, too, of Marge asking, like, is this what you thought married life would be? They're kind of getting old and be like, is this just our lives now? Yeah.

It's a darker thought than they often get into on The Simpsons. And then, like, everything Homer's saying is like a wacky Homerer thing and she's just not responding as though he's speaking in jokes yeah watching the episodes it's really um it was really crazy like how many great lines there were how many funny lines there were like memorable things just from this episode and i wonder something i think of a lot in these seasons in like the Bill and Josh ones is knowing that they were fans of the show. And I wonder if it's like because they approached instead of approaching the show is like a joke factory. They're trying to like maximize every line to tell you something a little deeper about each character. And so like, you know, you get this really nice contrast between marge and homer

it's funny because like none of the lines betray their characters but they're just like oh yeah if these were real people even though they're not yeah nothing is throwaway no no there's no cheap like check please gags or whatever you want to call them yeah yeah you can imagine that homer as a kid was imagining him and his wife would be in a scooby-doo and they also said that they speaking of them being simpsons nerds they wanted to replicate the party from war of the simpsons oh yeah too which this there's a lot of fan service in this one yeah including a later scene oh yeah we we also talked about in the uh you only move twice how when they had ned complain about things he'd lent Homer, they were specifically things they'd done jokes about. Like the belt sander.

Yeah. Yeah. And I think they actually like, I think they actually like redraw the belt sander, like in the back of the U-Haul. It's in there. Yeah. Yeah.

It's something that I feel like many casual Simpsons watchers, they're never going to notice, but the fact that they, they did it for us felt special. So party's about to start i am homer when it comes to going and doing anything i push it to the very last minute but it's usually just reading twitter not uh playing slot cards there's a lot of really uncomfortable stuff coming up and some of these are laugh lines but man they they really capture um perfectly a couple sniping at each other and people not knowing how to like i can't take a side i just want this to end oh uh one

quick note before the thing there when marge is getting ready for the thing and there's a ton of amazing visual jokes her pulling uh toilet seats out of the uh out of the dishwasher but there's just like an amazing bit where she's glazing this ham and it's so bright and the sound effect on it is amazing. It's like a... There are a few of those in this episode where they just stop

to let you hear a funny sound. It's almost like a lightsaber, that sound effect. It's amazing. Anyway. That will give me time to add another coat of glaze to the ham. Also, as an innocent child, I didn't get stoner's pot palace it's like the most obvious it's flagrant false advertising

that's all otto is now he just is the walking pot joke on the show well they used up all the other jokes in season three so uh did you all enjoy the kind of minute and a half of soft simpsons going to William Sonoma jokes They're in they're out they design all that Stuff that was the name I was searching for thank you I forgot what that was a parody of but I love Marge's disgust at the oyster mouth

Like made in America no thanks It's a really good one Also how could you screw up a Hammer I just I enjoy that and You just it does make you think About all the things you see at those. Like who buys these? Who needs a ravioli crimper?

I have everything but the ravioli crimper. Really? I haven't had it. I don't own any of those things. Like a fork does it all. Buy a garlic press, everybody. They're great. Did they say on the commentaries, Williams-Sonoma?

Yeah, I think they called it. That's where I was able to get it from. Yeah, it's like, it's kind of like that or like a sur la tab kind of. Yeah. Also, they don't pay off that fancy punch bowl. No, know it's true did they buy it or did they not buy it i didn't see the uh but yes the guest sorry the guests arrive are you ready just gotta put my shoes on the only thing i asked you to do for this party was put on clothes and you didn't do it. And now it's too late.

They're here. Bart, greet our guests and take their coats. Mom, Reverend Lovejoy doesn't have a coat. Should I let him in? My coat was stolen at last week's interfaith banquet. So I helped myself to a few of the better umbrellas. Well, as you can see, we don't believe fur is murder but paying for it sure is sorry we're late but the land had to put on her face she doesn't want anyone to know she's got no

eyebrows what you don't you can sense they were they were fighting before this too like there was a fight that, you know, prefaced this whole party. It's too, it really is too real of, like, I talk too much about my sad family, but that is, it feels like the kind of passive aggressiveness I saw between my parents at times. They didn't get divorced until I was 35.

A Gilbert divided. I also like the Hibbert family They know that they think they're on Just a sitcom they just walk in they say Their job I noticed that the Theo equivalent is gone now who was Previously in off to college

Yeah And I like the Blame coming out of love joy of like he Doesn't trust these other religions of that interfaith bank. One of them stole his... And he brought the umbrellas, which is great. He's just carrying them around to tell everybody, like, I'm this angry.

This is why I'm carrying two umbrellas. Yeah, a few of the better umbrellas. He has, like, an internal ranking system for what constitutes an umbrella. They've got the fancier handles. And I also like the gag. It's a good gag of homer not putting his clothes on but it also sets the table of marge being disappointed in homer i'm just like i you didn't

do it there's one thing there's a fun uh design thing i noticed here that you know all the simpsons are sunday's best simpsons but marge actually has like a different dress we've never seen before it's like kind of it's kind of of interesting. And then the rest of the family kind of just snaps to their church outfits. Yeah, but she's got something special for 1996. Maybe more with her Chanel credit. I pretty much have

every clip of awkwardness just because it's so well acted and it is funny but also incredibly cringy. Right. I think we've all been at a dinner like this one. Did anyone see that new Woodsy Allen movie? You know, I like his films, except for that nervous fella that's always in them.

If you want to talk nervous, you should have seen Kirk deal with the high school boys who egged our Bonneville. Should have asked him to hurl some bacon. Then maybe I could have had a decent breakfast for once. Oh, no. You know what you two need? A little comic strip called Love Is.

It's about two naked eight-year-olds who are married. That's true. That's true. Oh, man. In general, in this part, if you take Homer out, it's just uncomfortable. Oh, it's so painful. You need Homer for jokes. But Love Is, we'll talk about it for a second it's like the one reference in this episode it started in 1970 it is indeed a comic strip about two naked eight-year-olds who are married

yeah and i'd look it up yeah yeah this ran in my newspaper oh i never i didn't know it until the gag on this it's still running uh the original creator died in 1997 started in 1970 and it's not a funny comic it's a one panel comic that's always uh love is love is at love is is at the top and then there's like a little pithy saying at the end like love is you know never having to say you're sorry exactly staying together for a long time i went to yeah i went to the love is uh web page and it looks like it is from 1997 but it's's like July 2018 when we're recording this. Oh, there's new comics, and one is like, Love Is getting a special haircut for your man, or something like that. Boy, they're really scraping the barrel here.

Yeah, I have a specific connection to Love Is because I worked on this show, Steven Universe universe which is still going and uh when we were designing all the characters coming up with uh how they would act on the show we hadn't unveiled the characters ruby and sapphire yet very early on and a lot of there were a lot of fan theories like oh they're gonna be angry at each other or one's almost dead or like something like that and we were like oh no they're just in love and i specifically pitched in the writer's room, I was like, they're like love is. They're two tiny things that just love each other. Who are married.

The writer's room was like, of course, we're all huge love is fans. Exactly. Get your reference immediately. Everybody brought it up. And then, yeah, so it was like, that was one of the things that we pulled from, because I was like like i wanted them to

specifically be so pure that you can't impugn their love i think the characters in love is are just like they're so weird yeah uh they have no genitals and they're like driving cars and they're doing things they draw nipples on them it's just like you if you just took the nipple any anatomical figures off and it's just an undrawn body. Just have that. The one naked baby has a mustache sometimes. It's weird. It's really odd. They're adults, kinda.

Yeah, they're like kind of thingies. Well, sometimes they have children. If they need a thing like love is changing a diaper or something like that, they have kids. I'm writing a letter to my newspaper. This is getting much more disturbing. It's in the pantheon of great simpsons jokes about newspaper strips i want to go back to what ian said about the jokes not betraying the characters like in the context

of this world these are very ugly things are saying to each other but to the viewers they're funny because they say so much about the lives of these characters yeah and just the experiences they have including one that's coming up an insult that's coming up next. That Kirk got humiliated by kids, basically, who egged his Bonneville, which that's an embarrassing call. I also like the Woodsy Allen thing. Oh, that's so good. It shows that Woody Allen films, now they're crimes,

and I don't want to see them. But in the 90s, actually, they were then, too. But in the 90s, people, it was the thing urbane people urbane people saw like oh did you see the new woody owl movie and i so march saying woodsy allen it feels like she's trying to be the urbane new yorker type but she hits the name wrong yeah it's a little more of that uh like war of the simpsons kind of callback of them trying to show how sophisticated they are yeah family yeah oh but god the oh it's just so painful bc including this next one yeah this is the one i love yeah marge i know i haven't eaten that well since i was in the army or that noisily all right Who wants to play a game? Oh, that's a noodle scratcher.

Cornstarch. No, right now. It's good for keeping down the urges. Come on, Luan. You know what this is. Kirk, I don't know what it is. It could not be more simple, Luan. You want me to show this to the cat and have the cat tell you what it is. It could not be more simple, Luanne. You want me to show this to the cat and have the cat tell you what it is?

Because the cat's going to get it. I'm sorry, I'm not as smart as you, Kirk. We didn't all go to Gudger College. It's dignity. Don't you even know dignity when you see it? Kirk, you're spitting. Okay, genius, why don't you draw dignity? Worthy of Webster's.

So this says so much about Kirk's life in that the peak of cuisine he's had was in the army, which is not famous for their food quality. And that he's insulting Lu in the army which is not famous for the food quality uh and that he's insulting he's insulting luann at every turn like trying to belittle her but i mean in terms of making up words the the the the name gudger does conjure up a bad college it reminds me a lot of uh of in mission hill borchmore yeah it's. It must be like the sister school. It's got that same specificity to it. Apparently, they show Gudgeer College in season 28. Yeah.

What? In an episode I've never seen. Wow. I looked up that one, too. It was Kirk starts a badminton team for the kids, and it's revealed that he had a badminton scholarship at Gudgeer. But that's the only other time they go to Gudgeer is in 28. So many Etsy stores must have Gudgeur college t-shirts.

Oh, that makes sense. The other thing about cornstarch keeping down the urges, I looked this up and it doesn't go much further beyond John Kellogg of the Kellogg Cereal Corporation. He created, so he ran an insanitarium or a sanitarium. What is it? Is it a sanitarium? I call it an insanitarium. And his regimen for keeping down the urges

In his patients was a bland food diet And that's why cornflakes were created To stop you from being horny Because I guess he said spicy or sweet foods Would increase passions Look he messed it up Cornflakes make me extremely horny I mean there's a giant cock on the box

I'm sorry They went there My friend of the show mike grim he's he collects the enamel pins and he bought well he won as a big butt skinner pin but he also has the dignity drawing like that yeah i love that dignity drawing so much if you look up dignity tattoo a shocking amount of people have gotten dignity tattoos of that drawing which is just like, well, that drawing doesn't mean dignity

because he failed. I don't know why you would want that on your body. It sounds like a hard one to explain to a new partner in your life. That's why you point to it and scream, it's dignity! It's becoming real. The arguments are painfully well-observed,

especially just the way he's like under his breath Like alright that's it It's like very very uncomfortable Yeah Marge is like right in there with the save Like you know let's go play a game And it's so specific to like adult party games too Of like well we're all playing a party game This is fun

And then you see at least one couple is like This is not fun Right This is very serious And you're losing for us yeah i mean those kind of games can bring out like uh people's darker sides really quickly friends who they when they want to do party games they're like let's do the lie to each other game to see who the biggest best liar is like i hate these games they just make me feel bad

i'm finding out like now i do know who my friend group is the best liar and it's it's disturbing that's the point of the game so everybody's trying to save this marriage except for Kirk and Luann well it's no wonder I can't draw dignity I gave it up when I married her now Kirk it's only a game sometimes we ah cram it churchy maybe we should all have a few drinks. I'd have a drink, but it might loosen my tongue. You want to talk? Go ahead, Luanne, talk. I want you to tell them one of your little bedtime stories, huh? Like the one about how rotten it is to be married to a loser.

Or how about the one about how I carry a change purse? Yeah, a purse. Shut up and let your woman talk. Okay, Kirk, I'll tell a story. It's about a man whose father-in-law gave him a sweet job as manager of a cracker factory. Boring! A man whose complete lack of business sense and managerial impotence Ooh, here we go!

sent the number one cracker factory in town into a tie for six with table time and Allied Biscuit. And then Marge hides the Allied Biscuit box. That moment is my favorite moment in the entire episode. The incredibly well-designed Allied Biscuit. And then Marge hides the Allied Biscuit box. That moment is my favorite moment in the entire episode. The incredibly well-designed Allied Biscuit box. And the Allied Biscuit logo is like Nabisco-esque. So you know exactly what that is. It's like, this is a competitor.

Again, more made-up institutions, Allied Biscuit, and Table Time. She's so mad. Table Time is a hilariously perfect name. And there are apparently at least six Cracker Factories in town. In's so mad. Table Time is like a hilariously perfect name. And there are apparently at least six cracker factories in town. In Springfield alone. It's a vast cracker empire.

I feel like it's such a specific, we joke about all the things that it took them forever to pitch on. But to think of like, no, we have to think of what's the third best cracker company. Oh, now that's too good. That sounds like the first best. We the third best cracker company oh now that's too good that sounds like the first best we need third but these characters who we barely know they're just basically millhouse clones we find out so much about their their lives like apparently kirk is a giant loser who was in the army and when he got married to luann he basically got a job from her dad at a cracker effect like we learn all this through this these like horrible arguments they're having like all

the all these things we didn't know about these characters and i love cram it churchy yeah that just shuts down he's not offended he's just angry yeah yeah that's what i get for trying to help at all and you can see in the body language too of like everybody in some of the wide shots i think you see maude has just turned away she's just so uncomfortable she can't even take it and And Luanne says the D word. You want to hear a secret, everybody? Luanne loves it, loves it when I fail.

Oh, yes, Kirk. I love having to borrow money from my sister. I love having to steal clothes from the church donation box. Oh, sweet Jesus. Lisa, why don't you come sing for us? You're a grand old flag, you're a great lion.

Oh, great, you got the kids singing. I hope you're happy. I am not happy. And I haven't been happy for a long time. I want a divorce. A divorce? Sure, divorce. Hey, you got it, toots. And here's a picture even you can figure out.

It's a door. Use it. That's a door? They really love the squeaky marker on The Simpsons. Yeah, very squeaky for being on paper. Yeah. I'm not complaining. But I do, I mean, it's a very, I mean, this is a comedy show and they're being goofy,

but I do love the very realistic turn. At first, Kirk is shocked. He's like, no, I'm going to own this. Like, yeah, I want not complaining. But I do, I mean, it's a very, I mean, this is a comedy show and they're being goofy, but I do love the very realistic turn. At first, Kirk is shocked. He's like, no, I'm going to own this. Like, yeah, I want a divorce. Yeah. He sees, when he looks at everybody, he knows, he feels like, well, I can't back down now. Yeah. Like, I can't say I don't want a divorce because then I'll look weak here.

So I'll just say, oh, sure. I call you bluff. It is funny listening to it again because Yeah Kirk really is In the wrong this whole time I mean they give it to each other They're pretty rude to each other They snipe at each other but it really Seems to be Kirk's issue

That's actually the thing that I was I was tracking that a lot when I when I rewatched The episode because it's like you're supposed To take pleasure in the pain Of Kirk you're supposed to find it inherently funny that he's he's being shat on and so when i was watching it it's like to what degree does he deserve this and it's like yeah do a pretty decent yeah i mean what we learn about luann is not as damning as what we learn about kirk like as far as we know from these arguments luann is a bad cook in kirk's estimation but kirk is is a loser and he he failed at his job

yeah and he's afraid of teenagers like most of most of the damage is done to kirk uh in his in his character yeah and he's he's just the meaner of the two in the scenes yeah it is very yeah it's very telling as you said that that he has to double down i think but he was shocked that that his terrible behavior had a consequence yeah and he he seems to always strike first in these things too too. Like, Luann seems to be responding. Like, he's the one who says she doesn't have eyebrows, which, like, that's not a nice thing to say. Yeah, and Luann's like, no, I won't drink because then I'll tell stories. But then Kirk's like, I'll tell the stories.

Oh, awesome. Exactly. He's, like, egging it on, you know. And I also love Lovejoy's, like, sweet cheese. Can't say that in Adult Swim. You can't intervene. So then there's a cute little scene upstairs with the kids acting out. It feels like more of a season, a Mike Scully scene of like the kids hanging out together.

I think of Mike Scully years when I think of the only kids scenes hanging out. And that's like really well observed too. To like any kid who's had an adult party going on in their house and how bored you are upstairs with all the other kids. And you're forced to befriend people who are just like, they're just the kids of a friend of your parents that you don't know. They don't even go to the same school.

You're just kind of trying to pull out all of your tricks to entertain these new people who don't really care. This video game. Exactly. That line that we opened the show with, uh, there's not going to be a home later. Is the joke there?

Luann thinks she's being clever, but it doesn't make any sense. She thinks she's making like a clever turn of phrase. I think she's saying that with intent. I think she knows she's saying there's not going to be like, their home is done. I thought it would make more sense if it's like, there's not going to be a later. Like that makes more sense than there's not going to be, like, their home is done. I thought it would make more sense if it's like, there's not going to be a later.

Like, that makes more sense than, there's not going to be a home later. Oh, yeah, maybe, yeah. We are overthinking this, but that's our job. It seems like it's just, like, a specific reply to the exact words that Milhouse said, and just, like, repeating those. Sometimes that gives you the rhythm of of a joke yeah well and it does

feel like a parent disciplinary thing of like we're not doing i'm just gonna say back we're not doing the thing you just said right uh and then when they all exit just uncomfortably and homer just doesn't understand how bad of a party that was then we get to see kirk left behind and just is like what he's still trying to play cool yeah and uh then when we come back that's them marge still reacting to it and homer saying like that was 20 minutes ago get over it's a great run he's still in he's still in joke homer mode yeah and i i think it's smart that they they thought before we can laugh at luann and kirk you need to deal with millhouse because the audience is going to be thinking of the

Kid in this not the parents first And that's when we get this Cool scene of Milhouse getting comforted Hey Van Houten I heard your folks broke up Aren't you going to say Ha ha Oh by no means

My dad left my mom after she got hooked on Cough drops By the end, her breath was so fresh, she wasn't really my mother anymore. So, I guess I'm not alone. Yeah, you'll do fine.

My divorce was tough on my kid, but he got over it. I sleep in a drawer. Cardi Jr. His first and only appearance? Yeah, I think so. Boy, that is my junior uh his first and only appearance uh yeah i think so boy that is my line of the show by the way i don't i don't want to overpower anybody but i think i sleep in a drawer a lot let's let's play it yeah that's the joke but i must say i am a product of divorce uh and my dad was out of the picture way way way early so i didn't see him very much

but all of my friends for some reason I mean, maybe it was just more popular to be divorced in the 90s But I knew a lot of kids with divorced parents And I did witness these dynamics play out Where we were all sort of in it together But you could see the mom and the dad Trying to compete against each other And being more permissive

When it was the dad's weekend That was the weekend to go hang out at your friend's house Because you could fire BB guns in the basement You could watch R-rated movies it's just like no i have to be as permissive as possible otherwise this kid will not like me it's true yeah actually when we first chose the episode it was the bart perspective that i for some reason i thought there was more of it in the episode i think they plan on having more but there was just too much to cover because there's some in the cut scenes right yeah yeah like they go to a baseball game and bart goes to one with kirk and millhouse because

yeah my you know as with any parents they had issues but they stuck together but i was the bart to friends who whose parents split up and i remember having that view on oh divorced kids and what is that like and i remember originally watching this episode and really feeling like oh i've been in bart's role like before and like sort of had to think about oh what's going on with my parents like what's going on with my friend's parents and how weird that must be yeah i was in the bart as a child i was in the bart role too and the lesson i learned was that my friend My best friend Who was

Had divorced parents Was that his father Owned a lot of pornography That he was very lax with That's true That's true Most single dads A lot of porn

Same experience And they can't keep track Of all of it So You get to Get your in So much of it But yeah

Meanwhile Luann Has come alive I must say Luann You're really at your end. So much of it. But yeah, meanwhile, Luan has come alive. I must say, Luan, you're really handling this splendidly. From now on, forget everything you thought you knew about Luan Van Houten. Actually, Luan, I don't really know anything about you. Forget it. She's gone. Presto chango.

Kaboom. Sweet Fanny Adams, change-o. Kaboom! Sweet Fanny Adams! Bye-bye! Well, that line is said in my household probably three times a week. Just about anything. Marge has a good point. Like, I don't know anything about you. Well, think about that.

Like, this whole act two is these scenes of these characters together. I'm just like, did Luanne pick up the phone and call Marge and be like hey do you want to watch me pack yeah like it's also yeah it's also weird to see homer and kirk hanging out as friends like where's barney where's lenny and carl yeah i guess like that uh bed that bed conversation was supposed to be the t-up of we need to worry about these people's yeah i do want to unpack uh sweet f Adams, by the way, because it is not just a made-up bullshit. It is actually a reference to something. So, not to get too dark, but to set the story up, Fanny Adams

is a little girl who was murdered and dismembered in the late 19th century, and because people love dark humor, they would use her name like, I believe, British soldiers. This is a British child, by the way. British soldiers would call their rations like Fanny Adams because it was like it was so bad

It's like you're eating a corpse wow And eventually this is the Etymology of Fanny Adams by the way it Meant to mean fuck all like Nothing right so This is from the phrase finder Quote it wasn't until later that Sweet Fanny Adams came to mean nothing

The term fuck all has long been with us with that meaning. Although how long isn't clear as politeness caused it to not be recorded in print until the 20th century. It surely dates back to at least the early 19th century. The coincidence of a Fanny Adams initials or F.A. or Fanny Adams to be used as a euphemism for fuck all. Walter Downing, an Australian soldier who fought in Europe In the first world war Wrote a glossary Of World War II Soldier slang Called Digger's Dialects

In 1919 He was the first to record The link between F.A. And Fanny Adams Wow So it's Luanne saying I don't give a fuck About Kirk

Yeah I learn something new Every day Yeah that's amazing That is a secret coded F word In your 1996 TV PG show Wow Do you think we could say that

In a Y7 cartoon Yeah we could get away with it We'll give it a try next week Yeah Name a character7 cartoon? Yeah, we could get away with it. We'll give it a try next week. Name a character then. I mean, we'll see what we can do. Wouldn't it get censored in the UK though, the fanny? It might be, oh yeah.

By the way. That would stop it right there. That happens all the time. I'm very self-conscious about swearing on a podcast in front of people who make ostensibly a show for children.

If we swear at work, we get fired immediately. They kick us out. That's why you wear those monitors. Exactly. Luanne is so extreme. She's lighting a big fire indoors with seemingly nothing underneath it

to prevent that fire from sweating. And then she just marches away from it. The house burned down right after. And it said they redesigned Luanne from this scene onward to be better looking and then curvier. They both have like sort of 70s-ish designs to them in their clothing. It's like the last time they were both single, so they go back to what they used to be.

Yeah, and that's another reason why it's so perfect for the two of them to split up, because they're both clones of each other. So even though they would be split up they would be identifiable as millhouse's parents uh that's why they really should have stayed split up it's like it's almost like they made them to be split up i had to go back to an older episode to find out to remember what uh luann wore and it's a very like old-fashioned schoolmarm dress like the colors up to her neck it's very's very odd. That's with the anchor of Kurtz dragging her down. That's what she...

This is also close to my line of the episode, though, too. But, Homer, this one gets a lot of use in my life. A single's life is great, Homer. I can do whatever I want. Today I drank a beer in the bathroom. You went down to home. Yeah. Another great thing, you get your own bed.

I sleep in a racing car. Do you? I sleep in a big bed with my wife. Oh. Yeah. Hey there, Kirk. Oh, boy. What's going on?

Patio party? Nah, possum drowned in the pool. You have any garbage bags? Ah, just throw it over the fence. Let Arby's worry about it. Okay, so... Simpsons well-documented loathing for Arby's. And then, like, the sound design in the scene is so good, too.

Like, there's a car alarm. Yeah, just constant traffic noises. I mean, so not to get too personal, but I am going through a Kirk Van Houten experience right now. I break up in my 30s, and I have to say that you are granted a lot of sad freedoms. It's like, I can do this now, but it's

meaningless. At least I have this. Yeah, but I have to say I use that as an expression. I sleep in a big bed with my wife answer. When you give a direct answer to someone who's not expecting that answer in any way, you just cut right to it and they don't know how to respond. So that's my code for that.

That race car bed, the shot of him just like, eh, race car bed. By the way, just a great shot by itself out of context. Also, I guess it invents the stereotype that people who work at sewing stores are sad. Yeah, he's a major player down at the sewing store. Also, I guess it invents the stereotype that people who work at sewing stores are sad. Yeah. He's a major player down at the sewing store. Huge slam on people who work at sewing stores. The Casanova is a really well-designed, like, sad bachelor place.

A transitional place for singles. Yeah, so I think it's... How we use electricity can be smarter, cleaner and greener. At Electric Ireland, we can help guide you there. You see, our new Net Zero Hub has all you need to know about smart meter plans, EV tariffs, solar panels and much more. Making your usage clearer, your trips greener, your home cozier and your world brighter find our net zero hub at electricireland.ie yeah i don't know if it's based on it i i don't know la that well but it reminds

me of i know the oakwood uh apartments oh yeah there it's it's kind of the setting for the netflix show love with paul rustmanin and but i remember seeing in some documentary too it's just where a bunch of like actors for pilot season live and then when they don't get their show then they can just leave yeah it's kind of transactional housing like that so that's a nice like la loser specific but we there's a few uh things in the show that would become memes in our in our dark future and the racing car bet is one of them. Yes. Oh, for sure.

It definitely has turned into many memes. I mean, the ultimate meme is coming up. Oh, yes. The newest, as of this recording, the newest hottest meme is about to approach. Oh, that Arby's thing. That reminds me of the amazing Bill Oakley food reviews. Oh, they're so good. When he did the Arby's one even he copped to like

Arby's is fine why do we make fun of it probably because probably because arb is just a fun sound it's a funny word it's a really funny word more fun than McDonald's but boy that is a salty meal you can just pour salt in your mouth I mean Bill Oakley is my competition as an Instagram food reviewer I must give him begrudging respect for his work but yeah and i also think a lot of it might have been proximity to where they were working like for instance like happened to be an arby's nearby yeah well i don't know because like uh kind of near the burbank airport where the old film roman building used to be there's a black angus as well oh i've gone to that black and yes. And I've always thought like, oh, did they just like drive by this Black Angus and get angry at it? So we're not going to Black Angus.

It's funny hearing about like the day to day that they had like to be like, oh, we all order burgers from islands and eat them. And it's like, I've been to islands. You can't write funny jokes after eating a burger from islands. It's like 10 feet tall. Oh, my God. Anyway, we'll go to islands after this. I've not heard of islands islands the writer's room food i've heard joked about on podcasts as well it's uh jersey mike's is that the one yeah just get the big fat fatty there and then again you just nap all day it's it's it's like a uh californians idea of what it of what a east

coast sub is like which basically basically means it's covered in liquid and dripping with oils. It's dripping with different oils. When we really wanted to treat ourselves when we were boarding on a regular show, we were like, let's walk to Jersey Mike's and it's like a half-mile walk to get this damp, salty sandwich that'll put you to sleep

for the rest of the day. I just hate wet sandwiches. It's a bad idea all around. The damper it is, the more wet sandwiches. It's a bad idea all around. Hey, the damper it is, the more flavorful. Exactly. Yeah, it's a food sponge. So, but I cut that scene short

so we can hear, let's hear the other half of that scene. That's Jerry. He's a major player down at the sewing store. There we go. Well, thanks for introducing me.

Oh, don't worry, Homer. You know me, and I'm a superstar at the cracker factory you're letting me go kirk crackers are a family food happy families maybe single people eat crackers we don't know frankly we don't want to know it's a market we can do without so that's it after 20 years so long good luck i don't recall saying good luck. Well, I mean, that scene is like 15 seconds long, and I think it's maybe one of the funniest scenes in the history of media.

It's so good. That a family cracker company doesn't want any single employees. Or customers. It's a market we could do without. And that he also is saying, it that i don't recall saying good luck that is such like it yeah like an fu just a a very calm fu yeah just the the broader disdain for all uh single adults uh is felt yeah and i i love the background design that he has like yeah that that cracker fountain out front and his like A modern art cracker sculpture in his

Office he really cares about crackers i Mean it's only crossing my mind for the First time right now that like if he got The job from his wife's parent does that Mean that the person who fired him Somehow knows his wife oh yeah if that's Not his father-in-law then it's an Underling of his yeah I take it as that.

Although, I mean, Kirk would have, unless he's in an out, maybe Springfield is in an out-will employment state. That's what I was going to say. He's got a lawsuit right there. I think it's the right-to-work state. Oh, part. Which is the perfect phrase for that horrible thing. Yes, very much. And this was also the first time I truly understood the sign gag of Southern Cracker.

Like, oh, okay. Ah. Now I'm understanding it. The dry. I was about to say, is this the one where it says the dry with like seven Ys? Yeah, that's what caught my eye all the time. But now just the idea of like Southern Cracker. Ah, yes.

But then we get to meet Luann's new boy. Well, I thought they were going to do more with this with Milhouse becoming a terror. He has no discipline anymore. But this is the only scene they have. But I do love my favorite bit is like the scariness of the him ripping the cord out of the wall, but not out of the plug when he runs over and in his car. And this is when we meet Pyro. Pyro. Yes. And it was just a night of day workaday stuntman but american gladiators was actually canceled the may before this episode yeah those those guys just had to go back to being stuntmen full time the atlas spheres

look so fun and very hard to draw i know yeah man. It looks like it was incredibly hard to draw. But that's another one of those moments where it just pauses for a really funny sound of the sphere going down the road for like five seconds. And we hear like a fake American Gladiator sting as they roll away. Okay, boys, I gotta go. Come on, Lulu. Let's roll. And they would date until the Season 11 episode Where it's revealed that he's cheating on her

With Gyro No she's having sex with Gyro Not Pyro with Gyro Luanne is getting it Well at the same time though she's dating Pyro she also she goes on a date with apu so it's true and this is kind of casual in that in that scene that's kind of the design she sort of stuck with for quite some time pretty much single luanne design yeah with her

bell bottoms yeah she's usually like at like a curve or yeah Not a curve like a slant So that's when Bart breaks the Chair on his back And it leads to the current hot meme That is a very hot meme I mean there's much to say about Simpsons meme culture But you know I will say Funny meme great stuff But one of my pet peeves I don't know if you guys agree

Is pulling up like a YouTube compilation Of all the recent memes And then so many of them are Just ones that are intentionally painful To hear know if you guys agree is pulling up like a youtube compilation of all the recent memes and then so many of them are are just uh ones that are intentionally painful to hear and it's just like please cut those out and leave only the ones that are actual jokes curate these memes but if you're stealing this content from other people on twitter anyway curate it the blessing of the simpsons meme is that uh the source material is already funny uh which you can't say for a lot of memes. They usually come from something that's completely unfunny

or not really just a random picture taken out of context or something. Simpsons memes are great because then you can actually return to the original thing. We saw that with Steamed Hams. It's like, oh, that was always funny. It's a major gut laugh especially it's uh dan sells it with his just amazing screen oh yeah also the fact that he's in the bathtub yeah so much funnier and also the fact that it's just uh not only the

scream itself but that it's a long unbroken shot even for the next conversation that he has with marge it's just we just don't go anywhere it's just homer's pain you know like it's it's realistic but at the same time like homer did all things considered take that chair very well yeah it's like if that happened to me it would probably like break a bone or knock me unconscious i mean i'm a wiener but he goes back to washing himself uh gently after that and this is after after Homer has been nearly beaten to death by Drederick Tatum, so he should be, like, weaker to be things like this.

Wait, let me play the play of the scene here. Oh! Oh! Oh! What the hell is wrong with you? Jeez, sorry. That's a pretty standard stunt, Homer. Homer, get ready!

For what? Remember? Luan and Chase are taking us out to hear Spalding Gray. I don't want to go to that. You said you'd do it as a favor to me. That doesn't sound like something I'd say. I'll go without you. Okay, love ya!

He's so cheerfully callous. Yeah, especially the meanness of like it didn't sound like something i'd say i mean he did just get hit by a chair yeah i kind of give homer that one like you know that's just my the rest of my day would be shot he could have like lacerations all over his back we're not seeing bleeding into his bubble should we talk about spalding gray some of our listeners might not know who he is. I love Spalding Gray. He's a monologue. He's not a stand-up.

He did one-man shows of just sitting and reading a thing. But they are amazing. The short films they did, which are pretty much always one take, or at least there might be camera cuts in it for editing. I think Swimming to Cambodia is the most famous one. Jonathan Demme. It's sort of like a concert film almost, but it's just a man sitting at a desk doing a monologue. Which was a documentary now is one of my favorite comedies right now.

Oh, yeah. Bill Hader did one of those. Oh, really? Of Spalding Gray. And they're all so specific. It's like if you want a very specific Gray Gardens parody, then that's what you get on film. Yes, I did go to film school.

Finally, someone appreciates my filming expertise. They also did the best vice parody I've ever seen on that show. I need to see this. Really good. They were also perfectly detestable. Yes. But anyway, yes,

Spaulding Grey no longer with us. A tragic passing, but he was great in his time look at look him up folks like homer really missed out not going to see spaulding gray now he can't do it this is a reference for nobody but uh i recognize this spaulding gray reference when i watched the icebox series superhero roommates that dave that dave foley was in and to define dave foley's character the non-superhero as a douchebag he was really into Spalding Gray I mean if I may say you know uh that show must have been very very unpopular because I was a huge obsessive Icebox fan it's weird and I don't know what the hell

you're talking about it's weird how often we talk about Icebox yeah like constantly yeah there was a time where I was like mr wong is the funniest thing ever oh my god and that's really embarrassing did zombie college and on a cliffhanger i don't remember the theme song was pretty good it was really good it was hard drinking lincoln and the one with the and then the one bill corbett one with the dogs the poker dogs oh i don't remember that i remember the uh marie wilson show by dana ghoul Oh, yeah. It was in Peter Bag, too. Back when there were websites, that was the website. I remember websites. But then, meanwhile, we head to the Moe's Bar.

This is what Homer turned down Spalding Gray for, just to go drink at the bar. And we get to meet one of my favorite one-timer characters, Starla. Yes. Homer, I want you to meet one of my favorite one-timer characters, Starla. Yes. Homer, I want you to meet my new special lady. Say hello to Starla. Can I have the keys to the car, lover? I feel like changing wigs.

Okay. Starla's a temp at K-Zug Radio 530. She's going to help me launch my singing career. My car! Oh, my demo tape. Can I borrow a feeling? Can I borrow a feeling?

It's your picture on the floor. Go ahead, Homer. Laugh at me. I already did. Oh, man. I mean, Homer is still, we're like two-thirds into the episode. Homer's still a cartoon character. Yeah.

Basically like Merkin Homer. And he hasn't even reached the point where it becomes his emotional episode. I only just realized listening to that that K-Zug is an AM station. Yeah. 5.30. 5.30. K-Zug is an AM station. Yeah. 530. 530. K-Zug. That's pretty early on the dial, too.

Again, another great made-up name, Zug, K-Zug. And the idea that an intern at K-Zug is going to help him with his midlife crisis. Not even an intern attempt. Oh, yeah, that's right, an attempt, yes. Even less cachet than an intern. All to obviously steal his car.

There is so much information about these people's lives packed into these tiny jokes. It's great. And also just the fact that they're able to drop, again, two-thirds of the way in the episode, they're able to drop, oh, he wants to get into music. It's like, sure, I buy it. And that was his dream. He's like, you know what? This has been holding, that Cracker Factory job

has been holding me back. I'm finally going to be the amazing singer I've always dreamed of being and and he also apparently bought a firebird just to have it be stolen as well so sad and he's wearing his leisure leisure suit at this time right yes yeah this is i think the same one he will strip out of at the uh saint patrick's day parade no medallion in this episode though right not? Not yet. I wonder if they chose the Bonneville because that was a Pontiac car also to like, you know, contrast with the Firebird. I don't know. I only just thought about that now.

Just coming up with some headcanons about him going back to the dealership. A Bonneville is very boring and practical, much different than a Firebird, so I buy that. And this is the only time we ever see Starla in the history of the series? I believe so, yeah. Excluding like a random character pack use in background or something. She reminds me of one of Zap Brannigan's dates

in a Futurama episode. I got to say, I'm glad they went with a kind of weathered but feminine Tress voice instead of... I feel like they could have gone for a more mannish voice if they wanted an obvious, worse, bad joke. But more wig humor is always good on the Simpsons. Wigs are funny. And I guess we'll hear Tress's Doris voice later. Oh, yeah.

She couldn't go there. Also, yeah, it's not insulting her too much i mean he's into it until the car gets stolen everything she says including the wigs he's like yeah that's what i like yeah she's i mean i i like to think that starla has taking she's about to retire from scamming guys she's like i'll just take one easy last one one last grift yeah this guy is basically just handing me his car back to the wig sphere Just wig, what a funny word I totally buy them together though Kirk and Starla walking down the street

You would be like, well matched Yes, yeah I mean, Luanne got the better rebound relationship Out of this divorce Can I borrow feeling One of the best It's a great tease. I think in my first watching, I didn't assume we'd hear it,

but I'm really glad this was just set up for the finale here. And his picture is so, and a cassette demo tape, too. Like, he could have a CD. It's so sad. It's 1996. Could have worked that out, yeah. You guys were talking about The point of view thing

When they have their chat Homer and Kirk That was like It was kind of a baton passing Of like Yeah Now this is your problem Yeah

I think Kirk realizing He was the problem Is the end of his story In a way At least his character Yeah Yeah You're right

The scene ends with Homer Finally having a moment Of humanity And being like Oh I guess Yeah this is my episode now, and I've got to deal with that problem. No more jokes.

And they mention on the commentary that Can I Borrow a Feeling is something that they stole from like a, it was like a worst, what was it, worst album covers ever thing. And you can actually look it up. It's like a, it's a Cody Matherson, and it's called Can Iboro Feelin' with no G Legally distinct Yes

And it is a terrible album cover Oh yeah Yeah Yeah It is It's a truly bad album cover Yes Yeah

Oh poor Cody But Cody Matherson That's a great 70s musician name as well Bad album cover. Yes, yeah. Oh, poor Cody. But Matherson, that's a great 70s musician name as well, or singer. But yeah, then Homer just said that what defines their marriage is just routine. It's just like it'd be harder to break it than not do it. What I really noticed this time is how much Homer is projecting these problems onto Marge. Marge is not acting any differently. She's not mad at Homer for all the things he's done in this episode

Yeah, it seems like she's kind of moved on From her frustrations in that one She's let it go She's learned to let go a lot of things Like these Homer problems Just like, eh, this is average Homer I think maybe that's why I projected That there was more Bart POV in this show

Because the way Homer's acting it's sort of like the way that a kid would act when they're like oh no are my parents gonna get divorced start reading things into it maybe that's why i like you know misremembered it that way i mean it's kind of one of those sitcom things where it's like you know divorce especially at that time was kind of a hot hot button topic and like in a sitcom like if it's a hot button topic or like a very special episode it would often be something happening to someone who's not the main characters right and they're just kind of like thinking about it but like the life-changing bad thing always happens to like the friend no it's true a friend's

father dies or a friend gets a pet or yeah a friend has a drug problem as a drug a friend gets a pet or a friend has a drug problem. A friend has a drug. A friend is doing too much speed for the big dance recital. It's often a new character they can kill. Yeah. Also, they just introduce someone they can kill. Even Daria did that. They just did it straight. Bring someone in.

Yeah. But yeah, to your point about like Marge being able to just like let it go. I love Homer lisa's conversation about like literally about that you've done so many crazy things over the years yeah that's one more yeah and that he has a poker shed in the swamp where's this swamp how far away is the swamp from there and i love how she's just like she knows there's so much about that because it's just like okay why is it inappropriate for him to play poker why does he need to go to the swamp

why does he do it so often he builds a shack like they went from playing a picture they went from playing poker at lenny's to homers to the swamp shack so something's going on uh and homer's reaction to the frozen hot dogs was pretty great too i've never i don't if don't, if I'm having hot dogs, they just stay in the fridge. And if they get old, then I throw them away. Like, I've never, I don't, freezing hot dogs, like, just buy new hot dogs. That's sort of like you're buying a lot of hot dogs for the winter. A lot of hot dogs. You're going to wholesale, and you're like, here we go.

But yeah, Homer views that as a sign of trouble when it's really something thoughtful March has done. It's like, you won't go out without me, and I should be mad about this, but I'm going to leave you food falling in the sink. So then when they do a flashback, it's such a long flashback to their wedding. I wonder why they chose such a to do a clip instead of either

reanimating it or just going straight to the reception as it was. It's surprising to see a clip in a non-clip show on Simpsons. It always is. But I also like that in the Simpsons movie, when they show their wedding, it wasn't the meta. Yes, it wasn't canonical.

It was so annoying. It bugged me. I'm shaking my fist. But they were singing Birds Suddenly Appear. Yeah, that's the one thing they got right. Yeah, that was good. But I do like how Suddenly Appear. Yeah, that's the one thing they got right. Yeah, that was good. But I do like how they do use the clip, but then they extend it to what was actually getting married

at Shotgun Pete's like. And seeing that little episode after is really revealing. It's a nice bit of a lore, I'll call it, where it's like, what happened after the scene you saw five years ago. Yeah. Yeah, well, let's give that a listen here. See, you don't have to spend a lot of money to have a first-class wedding reception.

It's getting less and less likely you're going to yell surprise and have all my friends jump out. Levi's. Hey, you think that truck is full of jeans? That's the worst observation. You're very lucky to have, Mom. That's your advice? Get out of bed.

So only upon watching this now did I realize that is a Carvel ice cream cake. It's Fudgy the Whale. All you East Coast guys had to introduce me to the Carvel culture and all the commercials and stuff. I had no idea what any of it was. The commercials are amazing. I'm just doing Pat and Oswalt's impersonation.

We went kind of deep into them on Talking Critic when Cookie Push showed up. Yeah, it was a day at the races and a night at the opera. That's the episode. Dial that one up. Yeah, in Florida, I'm sure there were Carvel ice cream cakes in Florida, but I never had them. I never heard of them. I didn't hear Fudgy the Whale until there were multiple jokes about him on stuff.

What I noticed, though, is that we have noticed doing this show that they're very worried about getting sued. So when we see the Chanelel logo we only see half of it yeah when we see the hamburglar comic uh the h is being covered up by a hand very awkwardly i'm gonna use these tricks what's that i'm gonna use these tricks you can't get sued but when carvel is shown it's the bottom of the word carvel but one thing that happens in the scene later the levi's logo goes by on a truck and it's an accurately 100% drawn so like what's going on there's like a contradiction in this scene I want to know somebody call Fox's lawyers do you think they were like well it

goes by really fast it could be pause it yeah or maybe they just got a kickback they got a couple jeans you guys commercial playing during the commercial counterfeit jeans no more of those counterfeit jeans I got Levi's the actually you know what on the point of carvel i have a steven universe question oh yeah i mean was cookie cat a cookie reference yes absolutely all right man i figured but you can actually bite into cookie cat yeah not yeah exactly it's it's a little different but um yeah carvel i mean they're all over the east coast which is where i grew up and i think there's like several just like Jersey rest stops that always have like a, you know, they have like a Nathan's hot dogs and a Carvel attached to them.

A whole row of them. Yeah. A duet of pleasures. Okay, good. I had always figured that. I'd seen the internet say it was that, but I wanted a confirmation. Well, it was cause mostly, and not to go too deep into Carvel lore,

but the fact that cookie post has a backstory and like, and like there's cookie post lore. When you watch those commercials, you're like, Oh, he's from outer space. Oh, there's a lot going on with this guy.

That was kind of where like a lot of the cookie cat idea. And we were like, what's a lot going on with this guy. That was kind of where a lot of the cookie cat idea. We were like, what if an ice cream sandwich had an epic backstory? But there's no Irish cookie-o-cats. Yeah, no. Not yet. The show's not over yet. I created that character. But yeah, I'm always a fan of when innocuous things seem to have a ton of lore.

Like Toucan Sam, he's got a house and three nephews. And what's going on with him? Is he some kind of explorer? That's why it was sad when they would change things. Like Cookie Crisp got different mascots. Oh, yeah. They had a good thing going with the criminals. They did.

I like the criminal more than just like, what's a criminal wants those cookies? What does a wolf want cookies for? And every like, what's a criminal wants those cookies. What's what is, what does a wolf want cookies? And every child wants to be a criminal. So it makes sense that he's on the box. That's, that's one of my favorite lines from community when they are doing an

extended joke on the cookie crisp wizard. And then, uh, Donald Glover just breaks down. I'm just like, I don't even get this reference in my childhood. It was a burglar, not a wizard.

My parents also, they got married they eloped and got married in nevada as well and so i think my mom sighed a little during these episodes i also like it's a great scene that set march was sad but it also does set up homer learned something He's like, I should give her a party while all of her friends pop out and say surprise. Yeah. It's, it's, you don't, I never caught that until the many viewings later. Same here. Right. Then Homer wakes up and he is ready to save his marriage. So I wandered over to that theater you went to last night and I bought tickets to their entire season.

Look, mostly madrigals. Hey, that might be good. Oh, and evening with Philip Glass. Just an evening? Voices of the elderly poor. Hmm. Oh, me. I appreciate this, but I'd really like to get some sleep.

Oh, of course very boring events. And one I misheard until now. It's Voices of the Elderly. Poor. P-O-O-R. I thought he was saying four. I thought he was just saying or. I thought it was like four.

Yeah. According to the captions, it's poor. But I mean, four works as well. It's like the fourth installment, so it can't be that good Right Either way I had always actually heard it as whore Whoa

It was my extreme hearing I think poor is better because They're going to be very sad stories I mean they're old people so it's going to be sad And then it's going to be sad Poor old people at the same time. It fits even more for a fancy-smancy theater to be like, people need to hear about the elderly poor.

They need to know about this. Just an evening? But yeah, those soothing ocean sounds. I think I told this story on the earlier interview. But my brother and I, our parents' church told them not to let us watch The Simpsons. And so we grew up stifling our laughter at The Simpsons so that our parents didn't realize like, oh, we're watching this subversive show um and we had you know we had a moment uh in who shot mr burns part two where we gut-bustingly laughed at the joke of skinner being so boring uh oh god you know our parents were like what are you guys watching down there and we were like the simpsons mom you know we

had like that moment of like standing up to them and then we do it sort We had that moment of standing up to them. This is what we do. Sort of from that moment on, they were like, okay, I guess they watched The Simpsons. That's fine. They're ready. But that moment of soothing ocean sounds, which is kind of a similar joke, which is a long stretch of boring things and then a really funny thing.

That was one of those gut-busting, laughing moments for us for sure the pirate at the end is the icing on the cake yeah homer is really going into it like he squints one eye he poses for it and uh it's it's it's so great uh and i wonder when homer bought those tickets at like 11 p.m did he just drive out that night after talking with lisa but he has his reading glasses on again as he's going through all the tickets. That's the third reading glasses. Yeah, this is like one of those manic episodes that Homer

has from time to time. That's how I read it, at least. Well, yeah. He just gets like tooled up about something. I mean, the whole third act with Homer, you know, it does feel a bit like, you know, well-worn territory, you know, a little bit of Secrets of a Successful Marriage. And then I had to look it up to remember where this emotion It does feel a bit like Well-worn territory A little bit of secrets of successful marriage

And then I had to look it up to remember Where this emotion of him trying too hard And making someone unhappy was And I guess it's grandpa versus sexual inadequacy He does it with the kids He over-parents I was just going to call this half-assed over-husbanding Yeah, and that one

It was half-assed over-parenting And this was the first time I caught the name The Perm Bank. Me too. Oh, yeah. Never caught that before. That's probably something that's cut off in the widescreen editions of the show. Those are not recommended by me. Those are terrible.

Yeah, I had no idea. I was buying those on iTunes when I bought them for this trip. You can purchase those? Yes, and you can't revert to the old versions because not only do they pan and scan, they also squish the image vertically. It's terrible. And the credits

are new, which means they have access to untouched, uncredited Simpsons footage. It's weird. It's weird. Watching it is very painful, but sometimes necessary when you put on FXX and you're like, well, I want to watch this, but it's the bad version and this is on all day. And the jokes are super weird and none of the reveal jokes work either.

When something pans to reveal something, everything's framed super weird. Yeah, sad one I saw on somebody else's share on Twitter was from Duffbeard, Dufflight, and Duffdry Them all coming from the same Two It just cuts it off, you just see the names of them When it zooms out When people, when the editor Is doing that, don't they see the joke

Is ruined? Not everyone is that savvy I guess, but They should really put a super Gameboy-esque Border on all those They can put commercials there for all I care just as long as the show looks like what's going on mcdonald's uh but I think on the simpsons world app I've been told um probably months ago at this point that uh you can now access the four by three versions which is great and matt graining was very mad about all the cropping that was happening. He tries to give her a Madonna cut. It doesn't work out so well.

He's almost like he thinks he's in a sitcom when he's doing that. I'm just like, ooh. It's a very big action by Homer. And then he files for one of those famous Springfield quickie divorces. We just made things worse. A few clumsy gestures aren't going to make up for ten years of neglect. Marge deserves someone who will treat her right. Marge deserves a fresh start.

I'd like to file for divorce. These things happen Eight dollars Now in the time Since 1996 I've known people Who've had divorces And I have to tell you It's much more expensive

Than eight dollars And also I think The other person Needs to be present To agree to a divorce Yeah A surprise divorce Yeah

It's a good act break It works I mean when I watched it On TV The first time it aired It definitely like Actually got me I'm like How are they going to Get break. It works. I mean, when I watched it on TV the first time it aired, it definitely, like, actually got me. I'm like, how are they going to get out of this one? Yeah.

I mean, like, in college, I knew somebody who was going through a divorce, or they had split up and they wanted to divorce their husband, but they had to wait until they could afford the procedure, the lawyers, everything involved in the process of getting a divorce. If you are a divorce person, share your pain with us. Let us know how much it costs. I really want to know. And this is just the setup to the big reveal.

Like, I wonder what Mario, I could go for some butterscotch chicken right now. Oh, yeah. Boy. And then, actually, wait. The butterscotch chicken. So when that, when I heard that, I was like, wait a minute. Is this like a butterscotch plot hole? Because isn't Bart allergic to butterscotch? Oh my gosh.

And imitation butterscotch? Oh my gosh. And imitation butterscotch. Wow. And monster movie makeup. The 12-year-old monster movie makeup. I can't remember which episode that's from. I think it's the one with the... It's Blood Feud. Oh, with Burns.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. He's trying to remember all the things about them. So I don't know. The one bit of lore they got wrong. Tsk, tsk. Unforgivable. It's ruined everything. Unforgivable. Ruined everything.

Redub that joke. Was that butterscotch chicken at the beginning with all the glaze? How we use electricity can be smarter, cleaner, and greener. At Electric Ireland, we can help guide you there. You see, our new Net Zero Hub has all you need to know about smart meter plans, EV tariffs, solar panels, and much more. Making your usage clearer, your trips greener, your home cozier, and your world brighter. Find our Net Zero Hub at electricireland.ie. Just a thick layer of butterscotch?

That was a ham. Oh, you're right. Maybe she just tells him it's butterscotch. So he doesn't know. But Marge gets surprised here. Marge, will you marry me? Why? Am I pregnant?

No. It's a second wedding, honey. Our first one was so crummy I had to make it up to you. I really love you. Oh, honey. Our first one was so crummy, I had to make it up to you. I really love you. Oh, Hermie, I know you love me. We don't need to get married again. Yes, we do. I got us a

divorce this afternoon. What? I didn't want a hokey second wedding like those ones on TV. This one is for real. I want our marriage to be perfect right from the start So we don't end up like Kirk and Luann We never will

Who are standing right five feet away They're in the shot But couldn't be farther apart Your pain taught us a lesson Inviting them to the same party too Also feels like a meme thing Maybe don't invite But I could see Homer not understanding that.

I was looking for this information, maybe it's on TV Tropes or something, about second weddings in TV shows. I know I'd seen them before on corny sitcoms, but I couldn't for the life of me remember. I think usually they're consensual. And they say, and usually it's like renew our vows or something like that yeah it's like yeah renewing the vows that sounds like i

seen i feel like i saw that on a roseanne once or maybe a home improvement but i i swear that this was one of those moments where i felt like the show was talking at me because in my first viewing i was like oh i hate these recommitment ceremonies on shows that's just bs and so that homer saying that out loud i was like whoa they know they know i'm sick of this it feels really tgif maybe there was maybe some of those shows step by step probably did oh yeah yeah well i do want to point out though that this is the larry davis experience uh first scene in the first production episode uh what's that called again that's right the name says nothing about the actual episode but uh if you go to see how they originally appear they're

like they're cleaned up a lot and one of the characters turns from a white man to a black man but um yes but that doobie the doobie brother is not in the first episode yes and i think i i so i was looking at doobie brother pictures trying to figure out which one it was and i guess it must be mark russo because he's the only saxophone player i guess yeah though i i looked it up i looked up to the only one of the only sax players they had in 1996 was also an african-american man cornelius bumpus so i have to assume it's the other sax there are there are dozens of Doobie Brothers members. So to get one of them is not the biggest guess.

And I think Larry Davis was a teacher of David Silverman's. That's where the name came from. Yeah. It's not a super hilarious reference. I love when they show up, though. It's always sweet. It takes you back. And they did the same action, basically, for Marge and Homer in that original pilot for the show.

Just like being the background music to them, rediscovering their love for each other. Go back and watch that animation. It's very interesting. So good. Well, the deleted animation is even better. I know the deleted animation is unreal. It's a different reality. What happened?

I am so glad they shared that with us and just hearing like jim brooks leave the common yeah he can't stand seeing it's just like a like a deep-seated trauma yeah i'm just imagining that feeling of just like oh no it's all coming down now there are those things on shows and you, working in the production of an animated show, especially. A lot of times there will be things that go wrong with an episode very early on. Or like something, I don't know, something just gets messed up. Someone can't meet a deadline or like the story doesn't come together. And you'll always remember that version.

It's really painful. And even after you work on it and you fix all the problems and then you get it, you get it in post, you fix all the errors, you add sound effects and music. There's like a germ of that problem, like still in your head. So like when they were upset at first,

I was like, Oh, that's unfair. It was just a messed up animation. It's not a big deal. But, uh, now having worked on a bunch of stuff like those trauma wounds when they get open it's just like really

painful like ah and then because then you have to think about all the nights and weekends and all the ways that you slave to like fix it you know it's a lot of reasons why like when we finally finish an episode and I see it on TV like I start feeling tears

coming out like oh god i'm so tired no yeah we we asked david silverman about that one especially and it sounded like hell like they had to animate like redo like 60 percent something like that i can't imagine that wasn't in in the budget. And the thing is that even when it doesn't go badly, the first time an episode comes back on a new thing, it's like a trauma in itself

because you see it and you're like, well, this is how it turned out and this is my life now. And I just have to adjust to that feeling now. This is what the show looks like. You just have to live with this.

So the Marge and Homer exchange their vows. I will now read the special vows which Homer has prepared for this occasion. Do you Marge take Homer in richness and in poorness, poorness is underlined,

in impotence and in potence, in quiet solitude or blasting across the alkali flats in a jet-powered monkey navigated. And it goes on like this. It doesn't matter. All I want to know is, will you make me the luckiest guy in the world again?

I will. Oh, homie, of course I will. Come on, you stupid By the power vested in me I now pronounce you husband and wife I wonder if that scene has the same setup As Homer putting the onion ring on Marge's finger I didn't go back to look I was expecting to see the onion ring during the flashback

It all kind of blends together I love the It's maybe like one of the It's the softest runner in this episode that homer thinks impotence is hilarious because before he mentions as soon as uh luann mentions impotence he's like here we go and then later he puts it in the speech he's just very interested in the concept and so he had to plug it in there. It feels like a very Harvard-y phrasing, too, of like in impotence and in potence.

Yeah. Potence. Word jokes. Yeah, it gives me a giggle, those ones. Also, Homer, thinking that he's enjoying single life, was like, you're doing the things you always do. Like, you always scratch your ass and belch. Then that's where we get the larry davis experience and the uh another hall of fame moment i would say oh yeah absolutely i've got something i'd like to say would you guys do a

favor for a guy in love sure yeah that's why we're here. Uh, hi, everybody. Uh, hi. And hit it! Can I borrow a feeling? Could you lend me a jar of love? Hurting hearts need some healing take my hand with your glove of love how about it Luanne will you marry me again oh no

well can I have my shirts back at least? Okay, you heard the lady. Why don't you take it outside, all right? I'll be back. Probably. Oh, boy. I love Hank Azaria's acting choices.

All of those grunts are his. That's his longest grunt of the whole episode. That song, yeah, just brings back memories of Songs in the Key of Springfield. Yeah, yeah. Is there an extended version there? Just they clear out, I think they just clear out the dialogue before and after, which is really good. When I was in middle school in the AV club doing announcements, I, uh, I copied songs and keys Springfield and we used it for all of our, uh,

all the background music during the, so we started with eye of Springfield as like our opening and we would use like all the like instrumental tracks and stuff. And I think we used this for like a Valentine's day. Uh, teachers know what it was? I think they did and I think most kids liked it because it was

I don't know. Well, I don't know. For me, it was the height of my Simpson mania so I don't know if other kids were there too. Hank Azaria can sing but I love how badly he said like, I'm hurting hearts. You can tell he was trying.

The song's bad But it's like Not that bad I mean The lyrics are Glove of love Glove of love is very bad It's so good

Yeah Just the sadness Of wanting to borrow a feeling Yeah And also His stage banter too Of like Uh

Hi Hi And it did it But it is the great I mean even at this time Sitcoms were still What The Simpsons was rejecting In the very is the great I mean even at this time Sitcoms were still What The Simpsons was rejecting In the very beginning

And you I mean a viewer would think Like of course They're going to patch things up But again They deny you that And it's great Yeah

That every Even Simpsons would teach you This is They're going to get back together They have to Yeah Ay carumba In season seven

They were joking about that In that it had to get back to it and it just disturbed bart and lisa in the day the violence died it has to return to normal but it disturbs them that they didn't do it right but then in season eight it's like well then it's just stuff doesn't return to normal like they stay divorced uh edna and Skinner stay together. And the next time they actually undo a change by the end of the episode is when they, under penalty of torture, you can't talk about Armin Tamsey. That's right. One of my favorite episodes.

Yeah, so good. We're going to get to it. Controversial. Okay, not one of my favorites, but I think it's a great episode. I actually love that one. I think it's a good, funny episode, and people overreacted. Okay, not one of my favorites, but I think it's a great episode. No, I actually love that one. I think it's a good, funny episode and people overreacted. Yes, it's unfairly maligned, I think. Yeah.

I could name four other episodes that were like, no, this is the problem. But the principle of the pauper is hardly the worst problem in this. So, yeah, they did. Luanne and Kirk would eventually get back together. It was in season 17 They became a couple again But didn't remarry in a millhouse Of sand and fog

And then in season 19 They announced they get remarried At the start of the episode Little Orphan Millie Because they first get married Then they go on a honeymoon and get lost And they're presumed dead. And they adopt Milhouse and the Simpsons family.

I was probably only hate-watching at that point. If you can provide, maybe in the show notes, the rush order for the Milhouse arc for the series, maybe I'll catch up. When was the time skip? Yeah, exactly. There was, I think, akin to a time skip is when he moves to another town and then comes back and it's cooler than Bart in that other episode. I just remember the pictures from it. But this is before Milhouse becomes like the was-up monster

always pining after Lisa, which I felt like they, it was funny at first, but then they hit it a little too hard. Yeah, I would say overplayed the hand and became too depressing at times. Yeah. And also just a little too much of the nice guys finish last and right. Yeah. Yeah. I hate that stuff.

I will say Milhouse's character. I do like where they leave him off in this episode because he doesn't return after that race car scene. Yeah. And that's just happy. That's kind of just where he is and that's fine we don't see him way in but we don't really need to yeah yeah you found out the answers but oh god i i love this episode it's so sad and like kirk just rolling around in kirk's sadness

is just really funny he can't even get his shirts back he doesn't even know they got burned burned yeah he's hopeful like in him trying to get back in his hopefulness and trying to get remarried he also felt like well my shirt still exists right like no and i am that that pan back and forth to their faces of her like blank to light frown At him and his hopeful like Huh? Huh? It's a great reading on no I like how she's just like Not on the same page at all

She just blankly just like Staring at him Yeah and the pyro just escorts him out Like take it out It's Hank Azaria fighting Hank Azaria He's been emasculated one last time. And it would only get worse for Kirk from here on. He will eventually lose an arm, but get it back.

Get it back. Yeah, he was fine. Any other final thoughts on this one? It was just a really good episode. One of the ones that I feel like is a standout in the season uh especially as far as just like changing the status quo of the show which is which is really fun to do in a show like the simpsons where you don't have to change the status quo it almost seems like it's work to do yeah it's it's one of my personal favorites just for the amount of great sad and great funny

scenes within it that as i mentioned before things that I've been quoting for a thousand years. Yeah, it gave us I sleep in a drawer. I sleep in a drawer, I sleep in a race car bed. Dignity. Immortal, immortal jokes. Yes. Just curious, what is each of your favorite episode of The Simpsons? Do you have one off?

Oh, wow. Yeah, I think my number one, every few years I'll do another top five, top ten, which is one of the most painful experiences do you have one oh wow yeah i think my number one i've i've every few years i'll like do another like top five top ten which is one of the most painful experiences to try to do i can't uh but i think my number one is sweet seymour skinner's badass that's a great one yeah that's up there for me man i don't know if i have a favorite actually um i will say though i really love um treehouse of horror five the one with the shinning in it. Oh, that's a good one.

It's my favorite Treehouse episode. And it's just like wall to wall, just like great jokes. And, you know, it's a Treehouse, so it gets to be a little cartoonier, a little more visual. I know it's unfair to put a treehouse as my favorite episode, but when I think about The Simpsons, it's always the one that kind of pops into my head. And also, the longer I work in animation, the more Itchy and Scratchy and Poochie becomes like a keep it under my pillow kind of thing.

Yeah, it's basically just true. Did you Rastafari any of your characters? All of them. Yes, they've all been rastified i mean yeah itching scratching poochy i mean one of the things about that episode is that it describes okay ko

because it's a completely down-to-earth show which is completely off the wall and swarming with magic robots it's literally like the thing that i was like someone should make that yeah robots. It's literally like the thing that I was like, someone should make that. Yeah, as someone who's been both critic and creator,

it really speaks to both sides of the divide of being someone who makes something and someone who watches and hates something. Yeah. You have both faced the genius at work and been the genius. Yeah, yeah, I've been on both sides. It's a reversible

t-shirt uh so thank you so much for joining us ian and toby uh our our fans can watch your drawings on the tv can you talk more about uh where they can support you and how they can find all of your great products and shows absolutely yeah so our show is called ok ko let's be heroes it's on cartoon network it airs uh marks, I don't know when things air. Does anybody watch TV? Changes every week. Yeah, exactly. But you can always get the Cartoon Network app. There's a bunch of episodes on there. Or, I don't know. iTunes

is a good one. And there's a DVD coming out soon. That's true. Although I guess it'll be out already. It's also available on planes. That's where I watch a lot of it. Oh, yeah. You can see it on planes. But yeah, by the time this comes out, you can probably stroll into any Target or Walmart and pick up a DVD with a nice selection of episodes from the first season.

Oh, killer. That Cartoon Network app is the only reason I've turned on my Xbox in the last year. It's on there. It's not on any other console. Yeah, it's on PS4. It's odd. But it works pretty well, the Xbox one.

And then, yeah, I'm on Twitter at IanJQ. It's odd. But it works pretty well, the Xbox one. So yeah. And then, yeah. And I'm on Twitter at IanJQ. I-A-N-J-Q. And I don't know. I mostly just talk about the show. But then every once in a while, I'm just like talking about deep Hanna-Barbera lore. So check me out there.

I'm on social media as TobyToby jones uh also mostly just talking about the show and making bad jokes and i recently launched a podcast that may never go anywhere called toby's tall tales i recommend checking it out there's one episode and who knows if we'll ever finish another one speaking of hannah barbara laura to to divert from our wrap-up show i was at my local pizza pub working on the show actually working on working on notes for the show, and people at the bar were having this long torture conversation where they remembered Wacky Races, but they were like, what is the name of that

laughing dog? And no one was getting out their phones. They just kept talking about it. I was like, it's Muttley, but I can't approach strangers and say it's Muttley. It's Muttley. Let's just not know. They eventually figured it out Thank god but I was just like I was sweating

I was just like just get to Muttley That reminds me of another of my favorite K.O. episodes was the Plazalympics which was the Laugh Olympics Right? Basically right down to the exact Copy of Snagglepuss And we even got Mary McGlynn

Who plays Dynamite Watkins on the show Who also plays uh you know uh makoto from ghost in the shell uh to basically do the entire snagglepuss uh narration from the beginning including like the evens and we just had her say like who wrote this copy yeah i i that's another of my favorite things in the voice casting on the show like uh shannon is uh haru yeah carrie walgren yeah and uh and also the singing voice your singing voice oh yeah that was a dream come true yes i forget the singer's name sterling jarvis yeah he's the singing voice of donkey kong in the donkey kong country uh cg cartoon yes which honestly we we listen to the

songs all the time at work just like for fun yeah and i think very early we were like if you ever sing we got to get him in to do it dub in sterling jarvis singing the song and he was amazing yeah he was touring with i think like book of mormon at the time wow yeah and he's so good and it was great hearing him sing because it's just like oh that's donkey kong i went to heaven when he was singing and you know he was great and at the end he was like oh yeah so how'd you guys you know hear about me stuff and we were like well uh donkey kong country cartoon and i could i could sense like a palpable mild disappointment how did you think but i mean the songs are amazing the songs in the donkey kong country cartoon are good. And he's an unbelievably good singer. Like,

yeah. So yes, thank you for listening folks. As for us, you can find us on the internet. You can download us there too. And we are supported by Patreon. So if you go to patreon.com slash talking Simpsons,

we have quite a few thousand, a dozen, a hundred podcasts. You figure it out. There's a lot of them. And if you go there, if you pledge $5, you'll get a lot of bonus stuff, a lot of them. And if you go there, if you pledge $5, you get a lot of bonus stuff,

a lot of bonus podcasts, including exclusive series like Talking Futurama, Talking Critic, all of our season wrap-ups, deleted scenes from season five and onwards, interviews with legendaries like Bill Oakley,

Mike Scully, David Silverman, some of the greatest, biggest cheeses of the Simpsons. What else, Henry? Just a few more things. We had our recent one with Mike Reese, as well as our season seven wrap up where we go through our favorite bits of season seven and where we in a video form for the premium patrons ten dollar level you can watch the deleted

scenes with b and bob's commentary and also the early episodes of our sister show what a cartoon where we go through a different cartoon each week that's right so yes please check us out at patreon.com slash talking sims. So much stuff for you there for just five bucks a month. As for me, you can find me on Twitter as Bob Servo. My other podcast is Retronauts every Monday, occasionally a bonus episode on Friday. Go to retronauts.com or look for Retronauts in your podcast device. It's a classic gaming podcast.

We've been going on since 2006, so I think you'll like at least one of our topics, I hope, out of 400 podcasts. If not, work on yourself Henry And I'm at H-A-N-E-R-Y-G on Twitter And I tweet out angry rants But also when there's new stuff about the show On our podcast, I tweet it out there

And also I always try to retweet When there's news on new episodes of OK KO That's true Thanks again to Ian and Toby for joining us And we'll see you next week for Lisa's date with density. Thanks for having us. Good night.

Thanks for coming. We'll see you. Bye-bye. Well, I think that went pretty well. What?