Talking Simpsons - Talking Simpsons - Bill Oakley Talks Space: 1972 and The Simpsons

Episode Date: June 5, 2026

Friend of the show Bill Oakley returns once again, and this time, he's got an exciting new project to plug: Audible's Space: 1972. Listen in as we talk to Bill about his ongoing sci-fi/comedy audio series, and then ask him many increasingly obscure questions about seasons five and six of The Simpsons. Secrets about the wizard's key will be revealed! Be sure to check out Space: 1972 when it hits Audible on June 11th!

I heartily endorse this event or product. Ahoy, hoi, everybody, and welcome to another Talking Simpsons interview. I'm one of your host, Bob Mackey, and who is here with me today, as always. Ready to blast off. It's Henry Gilbert. And this time we are talking to Bill Oakley once again for a very important reason. It's because Bill has an upcoming audio series via audible.com. It is called Space 1972, and it's coming out very soon. And we want to talk to Bill about that, his previous audio series, Space, 1969.

And of course, we have some very obscure Simpsons questions to lob at him. Yes, especially about the most recent seasons we've been covering of five and six, where him and Josh Weinstein, in case you don't know, somehow you don't know. It's Bill and Josh wrote some of the best episodes of The Simpsons in show ran season 8 and 7. And we have several obscure questions in there. You will learn some Simpsons secrets in there as well. There's still things that Bill Oakley has not told us about his time on The Simpsons. So I think that's all the context you need.

And if you want links to Bill's audiobooks or, sorry audio series, check out the podcast description. But without further ado, here is our chat with Bill Oakley. And joining us on the line, we have Bill Oakley, who I think needs no introduction. We've been talking to Bill for the better part of 10 years. Welcome back to Talking Simpsons, Bill Oakley. Hey, thank you. It is great to be back here and see you guys again. Yeah, it's been. We were just talking that the poochie episode, I think, was the last time we were all together in the same room back in October, 24. That was a fun night. I really enjoyed that. And this time around we're here to talk about Bill's upcoming. I would not call it an audio drama. Bill, how would you define this?

An audio comedy, an audio sci-fi comedy? Yeah, audio comedy is pretty good. I mean, the thing is, this is like, it's weird to say it's not a podcast. It's not really an audio book. And in fact, last, when the first one came out up till the day that they posted it, Audible, was trying to figure out whether to call it a audiobook or a podcast. And they finally settled on an audiobook, which also doesn't quite seem right to me. I call it like a radio show, radio play, but they specifically, say don't call it a radio play. So I'm at a loss. This is just call it an audiobook, even though it's really more of a radio show. All of us old-timers can think of it as a radio play. Thank you. And you're here to talk about your upcoming audio sci-fi comedy, Space 1972, which is the sequel

to Space 1969. And we're just curious, how long has this idea been gestating in the head of Bill Oakley? Was it always going to take the form of this audio production? Did you have other plans in mind, or did this just seem like the perfect format for this story? This ended up being the perfect format. This is something that I wanted to do. Okay, so just a little setting the stage a little bit here. I have a project that is my main writing of project and has been for the past six or seven years called Space 1969. It's available on Audible.com, and it stars Natasha Leone. The sequel to that is coming out and it's called Space 1972. Now, to answer your questions, yes, this has been around for a long time in my head. And it's because

I spent around for at least 15 years, and because I wanted to do it as a TV show, but it was too niche. It's like, this is a triple niche thing. It's a history, sci-fi comedy. That's three niches, right? And so TV, everyone in TV was like, no thank you. Even, and to the point that I was like, you know what, even in comic books, everyone was like, no thank you.

And that was a hard pill to swallow. But then Audible contacted me about, I guess it was about six years ago now and said, do you have any projects you'd like to do that I prepared for Audible. And I was like, yeah, I have this project that has been my passion project for years, and I've never found the right format for it because it's honestly, it would be incredibly expensive to make. But as an audio project, it's actually not that expensive to make, and it actually is a very vivid universe. The audible has been able to create, they do an incredible job with the sound effects, the processing and so forth in the acting. So I sold this to them about six years ago, Space 1969.

And it took its enormous project that has 10 episodes, which I wrote, all by myself, and it was like a 600-page script approximately, that I, but years writing. And then now I spent the last three years writing Space 1972, the even longer and even better and even funnier sequel, which is fine, and a year producing it as well, with all the same cast, actors, all your favorite characters are back, and the story is even more, I would say it's more entertaining than the first one, which was pretty my favorite thing I ever wrote. And we should say if you miss hearing the voices of Bill Oakley and Josh Weinstein to They are part of the cast of Space

1969, I assume you're both returning to Space 1972, Bill. Yes, we are both returning in almost all the same characters are back, plus a few new characters. Following your career so closely for so long helped me a lot with this series because it plays around in so much of, like,

the 60s, like trivia and iconography and space age stuff that is in so much of your work. Like, references in this, like the first time I heard of, you know, Halderman was from watching Side show Bob Roberts and then now you're playing him. Yes. It is a boatload of that stuff. In fact, I would also say the reason I wanted to tell you guys about it and your listeners is because it's

very much the sense of humor that I had on the Simpsons. You know, this is the kind of sense of humor that I wrote the script in Simpson's script format and I know how, because I know how the rhythms show grow and how many jokes you need to have per page and all that stuff and like how long a dialogue piece seems on the page and so forth. So the script, I feel this has a very much Bill Oakley and Josh Weinstein, even though Josh didn't write it, sense of humor involved. And it's also been compared by other people to Futurama, except it's in the past, which we also worked on. And so I think people who like Simpsons, especially your listeners, would really enjoy this.

And if, you know, you can't watch Simpsons while you're driving, but you could listen to this, especially if you're on a summer road trip or whatever. I think it moves along at a great clip. There's a lot of humorous stuff. I find the story to be very engaging. I actually listen to Space 1972 now several times all the way through just for fun. Yeah, just within a few minutes, I thought they turned the Oakley knob up to 11. If you enjoy your episodes in seasons 5 and 6 and how you ran the show in season 7 and 8,

this is all of the best Oakley content. And I found there was some deep Bill Oakley lore. If I may ask you a wizard's key question, Bill. I know that in the past, you and Josh wrote a spec script for Seinfeld about, I think, George swallowing a piece of glass. And I think that idea did make it into Space 1969 in the earlier episodes. Did it? Oh, Ian Raspis.

It's definitely since 1970, too. I was wondering if you were referencing an idea you could never put on TV or just an idea that's been floating around your idea of swallowing a piece of... It's one of the patients that the nurse character, Natasha Leon's character, has to treat and sit with him for a very long time when he thinks he swallows a piece of glass. It's how Nancy meets Ian Rasmussen, how he... There you go. Oh, my God. See, I haven't listened to that one in like two years now. So, yes, that's exactly what it was. And that also appears similarly in Space 1972 now.

I've realized for now for the first time. But yes, that's exactly what that happened to me. in college, but just explaining to people, 30 years ago, Snapple, Snapple used to come in those glass bottles that had the foam that wrapper around them, right? So one time I drank bottle Snapple, discovered that the bottom was cracked, and that there potentially had been little pieces of glass floating around in it that I drank. So I was too afraid to even call the emergency room. My girlfriend called the emergency room by half and said,

what would happen if you swallowed pieces of broken glass? And they said, well, there's no way to know until your next bowel movement, in which case it would be black because there'd be so much blood in it. And I was like, oh my God. So there you get sometimes as long as 24 hours where everybody is extremely concerned about your next bowel movement. So that was actually, that was the entire premise of the Seinfeld script that we wrote, Josh and I wrote, that got us a job on The Simpsons and a job offer at Seinfeld. And so, yes, I've reused that multiple times over my life.

Bob, I had forgotten that it was the, their script. Yeah, thank you, Bob. That's great. It's our job to surprise you with facts about yourself, Bill. well done. I also noticed too, like something that was so key in the years on The Simpsons was, like, a major plot point just in the first episode hinges on like the Dean Martin Jerry Lewis reunion, this time in space and this.

Like that was like as big as the moon landing to your generation, right? Absolutely. And there wasn't, by the way, it wasn't really my generation. The funny thing about this is people think that it's a stroll down the memory lane for me, but I was only three years old on all this stuff happened. I don't remember that none of this stuff happened when I was. I was too young to even appreciate any of this stuff, but I learned about it and loved it growing up, watching syndicated TV reruns, reading old issues of Mad magazine, and stuff like that. So as much as there is that stuff in 1969, there's just as much in space in 1972, but it's a whole new world.

It's three years later, and as much as the culture in our real world changed in those three years, it has changed as well in the Kennedy administration between 1969, 1972, which is an election year. give some spoilers and let me just say in case you've listened this long and you don't know what I'm talking about. Space 1969 takes place in a universe where John F. Kennedy was shot, as really happened, but he didn't die. He was in a coma briefly and then when he woke up, he had had this epiphany that we were wasting our time fighting a war in Vietnam, that we should be spending all that money and energy colonizing space. So in space in 1969, John F. Kennedy has now been elected for a third term in 1969, and America has a space station that orbits the Earth

and is building a moon colony. And Natasha Leon is our star, who is a nurse on this space station that is drawn into this massive conspiracy. Now, the whole thing takes place in a universe that is loaded with, you know, pop culture things such as Beverly Hillbillies and music and magazines and things from that as well, all drawn from reality,

except the only difference is we're slightly more advanced in space, and a lot of it was inspired by 2001, you know, that kind of stuff. the Pan Am thing in 2001 in the Hilton Hotel. Those things are all in there, but loaded with realistic things from 1969, as well as the fact that Kennedy is kind of a tyrant. And in 1972,

those things have, let's just say it's been three more years of that, and people aren't quite as happy about it as they were. Furthermore, I would say, I didn't intend this, but there are a lot, there's some parallels to what we're living through today with a tyrant who is to some degree irrational and won't leave office.

And so let's just say that that plays an undertone. There's undercurrent of that in this new one as well. And we're also curious, Bill, about how this process is different than the television writing process. It's a much larger project. It's obviously show don't tell. So how does this work on your end? How much control do you have over things like casting? I see, at least according to some credits, you were a voice director on the series,

and you did that on The Simpsons as well. Can you just explain the process to us? Yes. God bless them at Audible. Basically, they let me do this just the way I wanted. So like on both of these series I have been pretty free to do whatever I want I received some light notes from the people at Audible

like could you make this clearer could you change this name because we're going to get sued could you not use this piece of expensive music that type of thing or like and in some cases their notes have always been very helpful too we want a slightly better ending on this episode very helpful very easy notes and so it's really just me sitting and writing

for several years on my own and living in this universe right now then what happens is The casting, yes, there's a guy named Thomas Mann who's been the producer on both of these things. And he handles all the day-to-day stuff. And he does the casting, although I choose that he sends me, here's seven different people to play Nixon, whatever, right? And then we choose them. We have auditions.

It's just like a regular TV show or anything like that. And then we record them, but we don't have to go anywhere because we can do it online. And in fact, the first one, Base on Dutton-Nine was done entirely during the pandemic. when everyone was shifting from previously they had done it, they made people go to recording studios, but every single thing in Space Scientific Center is recorded at home, and they shipped people, including me, these enormous suitcases with a whole like computer and audio set up,

and you had to build like a little tent in your room, with like mattresses and stuff to make it soundproof, and that was all recorded like this. Now, Space 1972, people are more used to working at home, so some people recorded at home, some people went to recording studios, you know, the old-fashioned way. And then we have a absolutely brilliant editor

who worked on both of them, a piece of them all together, and created the world of the sound effects and things like that. And then I'd say it's fairly simple because it's not like TV. There aren't as many moving parts as there would be in a TV show.

There's really only like probably about a total of six people who work on this and they mostly let me do whatever I want. And I do direct the audio, although Thomas fills in sometimes when it's not something I can be there for. But also almost all the actors already did Space 1969.

So they didn't need a lot of direction. They know what the character sounds like. They know how to perform the lines. Especially I should say Jim Meskiman. Jim, I want to see without going into great detail about Jim Meskiman. He plays Richard Nixon, who plays a huge role on both of these things. He's the most talented impressionist I've ever seen in my life. Like, you know, people talk about Rich Little, right?

And I've seen Rich Little, and Rich Little is good. But Jim Eskiman is a thousand times better. And Jim Meskimin could do any voice. If you follow him on Instagram, you know, or TikTok. He puts out things every day where he's doing impressions of actors or whatever, just for fun for 30 seconds. It's Christopher Walken. It's Patrick Stewart.

It's Jack Nicholson or whatever. His impressions are amazing. And you can also just ask him to these obscure ones, too. He can do anything like, yeah, let's just say he does Gerald Ford. Amazing Gerald Ford in this. But like, he's the most talented impressions I've ever worked with. And if I were doing an anime TV show, he would be the first person I would go to. Oh, wow.

It's an incredible Nixon. It's not over the top. it brings the character a lot of humanity just because he's so miserable. He never got the Brat Ring. He brings a lot of emotion to that character, which I've never seen before. And that's part of, I think,

why the show was successful. By the way, that's what I should say. The reason there is a sequel is because the first one became a bestseller. And this, like, much to my surprise and to audible surprise, because they didn't promote it at all, it became a bestseller just through word of mouth. And also because Natasha and I were tweeting about it relentlessly and so forth.

But it got thousands of reviews and likes and has a five-star rating on Audible, and it became a bestseller purely by word of mouth. So I think they're hoping for that again, which is why I'm promoting it myself again. There's no billboards in Times Square this time. You guys just have to buy it. The Nixon as first the narrator and then active participant in it, yes, I meet you and Josh, wrote some of the funniest Nixon stuff in your time on Simpsons. And like you said, you worked on Futurama where Nixon's a major character there. But here, yes, it is. Nixon is so, like, lowered at it.

I mean, every joke about no one recognizing the man who almost was president in that universe and how he's only been brought lower since losing the California governor race. Like, it's just so funny. Let me just say, you ain't seen nothing yet. That Nixon, they're going to get some fantastic Nixon material and an ending that you will never see coming, but will seem incredibly perfect, I think, that involves Richard Nixon as well in space. And Bill, what can you tease about the next series space, 1972, in terms of, you know, is it the same length, the similar tone?

Any key plot elements you want to dish out before it goes live? Yes, it's an identical tone, many of the same characters. And as I said, it is now in a universe where Kennedy has running for a fourth term. It's an election year. And people aren't quite as thrilled with the whole Kennedy thing as they were in 1969. Also, the Soviets and Chinese have a space station now, too. And so there's increased pressure of like a Cold War on space. And also, as I say, the culture has moved on from, like to say, the Beverly Hillbillies was the prime example of culture in Space 669.

Now it's all in the family in the Brady bunch. So there's a different, like there's a different universe. Also, the music is not like the kind of Jan Dean music of the other one. The music is kind of like the funky black exploitation, Isaac Hayes type music. And it's that the culture has in general moved to be grittier, nastier America has happened in the early sense. 70s. And it's, you know, so the circumstances are different. And I just say there's as much, if or more pop culture stuff. I did really love two more things I loved in it was that like, one, in the Simpsons, in the Springfield episode you did, Burns kind of becomes a Howard

Hughes figure. In 1969, Howard Hughes is more of a Burns figure. Like him trying to map Hooterville was so funny. Every time it came up, I was laughing, laughing at that. That was so good. That guy is amazing too. Hughes is back and it's to say this is more of the Las Vegas. There's a lot of the show takes place in Las Vegas in 1972 in the Howard Hughes universe. I'm not going to give you any further spoilers, but he is back and he does a great job too. And also Natasha Leone as the lead as Nancy is so great. Also I was thinking because she has a wonderful voice, the type of voice you don't hear so much anymore. And in your time on The Simpsons, like you loved casting people who had a kind of, you know,

a smoker's voice like that, that a lot of people don't have. I was going to say, Bill, this is the perfect actress for you to cast because you and Josh, famous for casting a cranky old man. And Natasha Leon has the spirit of a cranky old man, and kind of the voice of a cranky old man as well. That's exactly right. In fact, there's several jokes about that in Space 1972, but the character and the character and her voice do line up with the kind of stuff that we like to write in which she's, I could

never have imagined anyone but her playing this role. And it took a long time. Like, we circled around other people, like, you know, what's her face? Melissa McCarthy. They were trying to get me to do Aquafina for a while. And I was like, there's really just, there's nobody on Earth but Natasha Leon who can play this character the way I've written it. And magically she, like, she's absolutely perfect for this character. And I wrote it for her voice.

And that's why it sounds so natural. It's also funny, I thought, too, like last year, she was in the Fantastic Four movie, which is also like an alternate history space age 60s. Oh, yeah. So it's just funny. Like she ends up in these type of things. She had a huge year last year, man. She was in all sorts of things.

Plus she's got Russian doll and poker face and all this stuff. She's doing amazing. And she's much, oh, yes, she's 10 times more famous now than she was when we put out space 1969. And I guess, Bill, before we transition to the next part of our interview, can you remind everyone out there about space 1972 where it's available, when it's available, and just how to find it, how to listen to it. It is available on audible.com.

People know what audible is. audible is normally where you go to to get audio books, right? And you want to hear Harry Potter when you're driving. You want to hear David McCullough's biography or whatever, Thomas Jefferson when you're driving around. But they also do original projects. So like 99% of their library is books being read by somebody. But they also do original projects like this, like that are called audiobooks or Audible originals. Just go to audible.com.

Search for Bill Oakley or Space 1979. Sorry, I'm spoiling the sequel. Space 1979. It hasn't been ordered yet, but that may be the next one. Space 1969 or Space 1972, you will find it. The pre-order page is already up, I believe, but it's not finished because the final graphics are not finished. So you could probably order it today, but it comes out officially June 11th. Awesome, awesome.

I have pre-ordered it now. I always have audible credits I'm forgetting about that pre-ordered it now. And again, we can't confirm if you love Bill Oakley's work, and if you're listening to this, we know you do, you will love this. Again, the Oakley knob, they turn it up. It snaps off the machine. It's very true. It is very true. And thank you guys for saying that. It is a thrill to have this project out there, and I can't wait for everybody to enjoy it.

I would also say, if you've listened to, you don't have heard Space 1969 to appreciate this new one, but you will appreciate it a lot more if you've heard the other one, and actually pretty recently. Well, and so we did want to, you know, since we have you here, we also did want to have super esoteric questions for you. We've interviewed you so many times. I was like, ah, but we've asked them, even though we're covering season six right now, and you and Josh did amazing work on season six and five. We've asked like some of the obvious ones, but there's still some deeper stuff we haven't dug into,

especially from some original drafts of your scripts that are out there on internet. I can't wait to hear these questions. Feel free to respond, what the hell are you talking about? Because I've thrown this term out before. These are Wizards key questions. I love it. I love it.

I may not remember what you're talking about, but I look forward to being to have my memory refreshed. Well, okay, so my first one that I have is, So Grandpa versus Sexual Inadequacy. There's an original script there, and there's a table draft. And I noticed this in one other season six table draft that you guys didn't write. But there were multiple jokes about Jerry Seinfeld's book Sign Language that season. But then they ended up getting cut.

Do you recall that you wrote a scene where Krusty is doing a book signing of a similar book called Krustologisms? And was there like a thing against, was it annoying everybody in the season six writers room at that time, the sign language book for summary? I don't remember that at all. Like, it must have annoyed somebody. I'm fairly sure Josh and I would never have written that because we didn't, I don't recall, even hearing about that book. Was this in the,

when they went to the bookstore? Yes. There was a lot of bookstore content that was cut in the original draft we saw. Yeah. Also, there was a great, I don't remember. What was the Christologists'em's joke?

Yes, well, provide context, sign language was a sign-filled book, but it was essentially just some transcriptions of his jokes. Yeah. We assume that the hostility is, this is very easy to do. and it's kind of shameful that he just published his stand-up as a book. And that's kind of what the joke is about in both cases.

Do you Cresty say anything? He's offering to sign of the book, and nobody is taking it, and just stamp the ticket man is trying his best to avoid him. And he even says a name, like he gives a name in it, which would have. I did not write that down, but it doesn't count as canon anyway, because it wasn't in the show. It doesn't sound like something that we would have written. It's quite possible that it was pitched in the room and we put it in.

For the bookstore, kind of thing like that, what would have happened is say when you do the pitch out of the story, you just say, okay, everybody give us some Springfield bookstore jokes. And you'd write them all down and you put as many of them in the first draft as you could. And then it would get cut for time. We were very sad. The episode lost a scene in which we find out Burns is a reader of Kathy, the comic strip. Oh, yeah.

I remember that. That didn't make it in? No, it did not. And it's delightful. I can hear Harry Sherr's voice. Yeah. I guess I didn't even watch that episode when it aired. So I probably don't remember.

That's weird. I could have sworn that made it in. But yeah, that episode was a weird episode too because we had the thing, like, it's not my favorite thing that we wrote. I think there's a lot of funny jokes in there. Entertainment value dwindles, like, two-thirds of the way through because I remember, like, the whole, we wanted to do all the medicine show stuff. And then everything after that was more like, we've got to end this episode somehow. And I think that's why you probably notice it's not any one in its top ten list. One other thing I pulled together that I did not intend was two of my questions or cut things that actually do plug back into space.

1969 and 72. One is a JFK reference that. So in Springfield, the gambling one, that's where Rich Texan debuts and you and Josh created him in the script. And so in the early draft of Sideshow Bob Roberts, the trial scene is extended. Like more people are called for questioning than just Bob, including Texan. And it's given a way they name him as Orvis P. Tex Heidel. I remember that very clearly.

Okay. I remember that very clearly. And I remember when we, it's had a long time coming up with that name. Yeah, that's his name. That should have been his name. Yeah, I guess that was the Harvey Oswald reference. Was it? It was one of his aliases he used during his escape.

Okay. Okay, so well, you got me, but I definitely remember that name for sure. I guess in general, we're just curious as to how much JFK content was cut from that episode because you guys have admitted your early scripts were very, very stuffed. You overdelivered. I mean, that was all Watergate stuff. There might have been more Watergate stuff. I don't think there was that much JFCK stuff.

FK stuff, unless it was JFK assassination stuff, which I feel like the Texan was somehow involved in the JFK assassination. Wasn't that the joke? His first joke, yes, when he gives Homer his cowboy head. He's like, I was wearing this the day Kennedy got shot and it's always brought me luck. Yes, he's a Texan who hates Kennedy, one of those guys who was, you know, a Johnson follower, probably. So, wait, did that line make it in? That one did, yes, for in the gambling episode. It always brings me good luck. Okay, good, great. And you guys have been writing jokes about Nixon for a very long time over 30 years now. We saw that in the table draft of sideshow Bob Roberts. There is an appearance by Nixon in the script. He is

called to the stand as well. But 22 days after that table read Nixon passes away. Do you recall the discussion of the Nixon jokes being cuts? Because there are some like up to the line Nixon jokes like him appearing in I believe Trias of Horror 4 where he is not dead yet. He wrote an article for Red Book because of his line. What I remember more specifically was Nixon was supposed to be Ford in that episode with George W. George Bush, right? That was going to be the original draft of that, or at least the outline or the pitch out.

I mean, Ford makes much more sense, ultimately, because Ford looks like Homer. But Nixon was supposed to be there. We wanted to get him. We wanted to get him to do his own voice. That was the thing that I distinctly remember being cut when Nixon died. The other thing I don't remember. It was just such eerie timing. The table draft was dated like literally three weeks before Nixon passed away.

So I was like, oh, man, that had to suck to cut from it then. Or who knows if it was even animated? We had our fun. with Nixon. But now you can joke about all the celebrities in your audio series because they're all dead. Yes, yes. And also people don't... No one's on the brink.

People don't really remember them. But hopefully people will, once they listen to this and become all familiar with it, just the same way I did reading Mad Magazine in 1974. Yes. If you're a fan of Jerry Lewis, you'll be shocked. And Dean Martin, yes, Dean Martin, again, has a major role in 1972. I think, too, in the Sweet Seymour Skinner's badass song, I think there was also like a Nixon scene.

By the time the episode aired, he had died. So I wondered if he had, like, that even got animated and cut. At least in the script, he's like looking at the school. When Skinner is looking at the school, All Sad, I believe it then cuts to, like, Nixon looking at the White House all sad. Yes, I remember that. Yes. Yeah. There was so much in that episode of the cut cut because it was way too long.

And the whole third act is entirely different. I know you guys have probably seen this because I posted it online at some point. The whole outline, which had an entirely different second half, but it was way too long, where Flanders became. Homer became the sergeant at arms and all this other crazy shit and then Hank my favorite part is when Hank Williams Jr. came and beat up Ned Flanders.

You know what I've made memories of this? I know there's an animatic on the DVD that shows a different ending. More Homer focus than the touching ending the episode eventually leads to in the final version. Yeah, I mean we had to cut like 15 pages out of that so it had to be massively changed.

The Bill and Josh problem. Too much good stuff for 22 minutes. God, we spent so much fucking time writing those things. That's like, I'd see season 5 and 6 you guys loved it, but all I remember is that every single time we turned into script, we'd immediately be sent back to our office to write another one. And we'd be sitting there, you know, whatever, 51 weeks a year in that stupid office till 10 o'clock

at night cranking these things out and sitting out there wishing that we could do anything else that involved leaving that room. Yes. So anyway, but thank you for enjoying. I'm glad that it's, that they're still popular all these years later. Your sacrifice was worth it, Bill. Thank you. In the end. Bob, we talked about this before, but it seemed like especially in five, but also in six. There's a lot of different credited writers, but there's a block of Bill and Josh and a block of Swartzwolder. That seems like you guys were like kind of like not partitioned off, but in your own like island of writing around the writer's room. Yeah, very true.

Also in the Sweet Summer Skinner's Badass song, that's when the Ned's beat Nick parents came up. Like when you first put them in there, were you thinking of something that could happen like Hurricane Nettie later? Or was it just a funny moment to reveal. Yeah, which is a funny moment. I can believe for it because also like they only appear twice right and they appear once in that episode and that flashback and then they appear in

Hurricane Nettie, right? I believe there are no appearances between those two episodes. Yeah, it was just there for a quick joke but it was so funny and also that hilarious impression of, I think it's that guy Dick Sean is the guy's name that Dan Castell that I did that makes me laugh and laugh and left of this day and I still walk around saying it in my house like

oh man he's a cute that kind of thing which is really also you can see that guy and the producers as well doing that role playing Hitler and the producers. Oh, right. Yeah. He's so funny. We've tried nothing and we're all out of ideas has become a motto in this current age. I've seen that a lot online for sure. So I guess we should wrap up soon. We wanted to discuss a controversial episode with you, Bill, and that is the principal and the popper. And it seems that this episode has gained a new reputation. It might have lost his bad reputation because the YouTuber of the Real Jims who does some great Simpsons content.

He put together a video on this episode. He did a poll with over 15,000. votes. 18% still dislike it. 26% have always liked it. 5% used to dislike it and now don't and 51% are indifferent. And it seems that, yes, it seems that people have really come to terms of this episode. Of course, you know that we have always been fans of this and you put together a nice video for us when we presented it as a live show about the reputation of the episode and the intent of the episode. Have you noticed people warming up to it since its debut almost 30 years ago? A little bit. A little bit, like 5% of the time. But did you say 5% of people have come around?

That's about... Yes, used to. I think also now that we have so many more years of Simpsons material, it's like, it's... Honestly, I think people are too... People are too young to remember even what the context of it was now, right? Like, you'd have to be 40 years old to remember even the context of that. And people's like in season nine. People don't know what order the episodes aired in and all that stuff.

So I think that part of it is the fact that the fan base now has so many people who didn't grow up with it during its first broadcast, didn't see it in the proper order, and didn't see it as some sort of strange moment where everything changed and the show fell apart. But yes, I have a lot of opinions about that show. And I do have a, my own opinion is that, you know what it is, because we've discussed it a million times. Oh, yeah.

It's that the people just couldn't swallow the fact that we were retconning this character, but yet they did it in, there was the whole point of Mad Men, was it Dick Whitman, was where they Don Draper, and people loved that, and they loved it for hundreds of years in the story of Martin. gear. But I understand, and I can understand that if there's something that sticks in your head, like this character, they've screwed up the character now and I can never enjoy it properly.

And if I had to do that episode all over again, what I would do would be have Marge, just like in those early Halloween episodes, Marge would come out and say, this is an episode of Simpson's fantasy theater. This didn't really happen, so don't worry about it. And that would solve everyone's problem, or maybe most of their problems. I think you're right about the madman thing, Bill, because after that happened in this very highly praised prestige TV show, maybe people thought oh, you know what, this is a good idea, and we were wrong to dislike it. I mean, it does mess up his background. Also, like, I would say, you know, to be honest, I think having Ned's family parents be beat

Knicks also messes up his background. I think if you were trying to think about it in the most realistic, logical way possible, that would not have been the way that Ned Flanders grew up. But it's funny, and it's much funnier than having a realistic, he had kind of a strict Christian father or whatever. It's funny that he had a beat Nick father that's played by Dick Sean. To see Jim's, one of his things he said was like the majority of the majority of of comments echo the indifference poll

to the video he did that, like, lots of folks say they never hated it or don't get what the big deal was. And yeah, I think it could be time has lightened it up for the over 40 crowd or to that if when, if you didn't see it when it was live and it's just an old Simpsons episode

to you as a viewer of the Simpsons who just is taking it in on Disney Plus, then you just watch the next episode. And it's not a thing you argue about online for weeks afterwards or then, you know, it gets under your skin like a tick for some fans. I'm sure that in the context of watching all 850 episodes,

there are probably other things that might stick in your head more than that at this late day. Yeah, a lot has happened. Many polarizing things have happened on the show. And you're like, you're right, Bill, that if you don't like what happened on that episode, there are 799 other episodes on Disney Plus. You could just go to one of those. Maybe you'll like it more.

It's not like, well, we only have eight seasons of this. It's rocking the boat too much. Right, right, right. On Talking Simpsons, we've tried to do our part in shifting the narrative to because we do love that episode. And it's just, to me, what still makes me sad about it is that some people view it as like an affront to the character of Seymour Skinner

when like the reason most people give a shit about Seymour Skinner is your episodes of the show about Skinner before it. Like, you love him. Well, I know Harry hates it too. And I think, or he hated it at the time. And I think I can understand. I suspect if I had been a viewer at the time,

I would be one of those people who was like, they've lost, I would have been exactly the kind of person who got outraged and complained. So I can understand. understand that. But knowing why the episode came to be, I have a more sympathetic opinion

of it. Sure. Well, hey, I think those numbers are only going to go down. That 18% of still dislike it is only going to get smaller over time. Okay, good. Well, thanks again for talking to us, Bill. As a reminder, the audio series is Space 1972, and it is out on Audible. What is the date, Bill?

June 11th. Awesome. Yes, everyone please listen to it. The first series is amazing and I expect this one to be as amazing or even better. It is. It's better. longer, funnier, even more of a masterpiece, I dare say. Better than 10 Super Bowls? Better than 14 Super Bowls this one. Okay, we're good.

All right. Thank you, Bill. So thank you again to our old friend Bill Oakley. Again, please, we are imploring you. Pick Up Space 1972. And, hey, if you haven't listened to it, Pick Up Space 1969. It's an amazing audio series. And again, it is the Oakley knob has broken off the machine.

It's spinning wildly out of control and jokes are flying. They're hitting you in the ears. It is pure Bill Oakley all over the place. Like in space 1969, there is a list of old sodas that are out of date. Just like similar to if you like the listing of detergents, it's a similar style of joke. Like, it's all there. I love a war between Beverly Hillbillies versus Green Acres is alluded to. There's so many great things.

Yes. And our podcasts are very long, often three hours long. We know you have time to fit this into your life. It's Bill Oakley, for Christ's sake. So please check it out. June 11th is when it comes. out in 1969, currently available if you haven't heard that before either on Audible. So we have nothing to promote, so thanks for listening, everybody, and please check out our

other interviews and our archive.