Talking Simpsons - Talking Simpsons - Brawl In The Family With Chris Cabin

Episode Date: June 22, 2022

The Al Jean Era officially begins on The Simpsons, and we celebrate it with returning favorite Chris Cabin from the podcast We Hate Movies! After some fun 2002 jokes about environmental catastrophe, we then have the family in crisis after an arrest. We chat about guest star Delroy Lindo, the return of Vegas wives, and one of the darkest endings in series history. Grab your copy of Monopoly and enjoy along with us on this week's podcast! Support this podcast and get dozens of bonus episodes by visiting Patreon.com/TalkingSimpsons and becoming a patron! Check out our new shirts on TeePublic! And please follow the new official Twitter, @TalkSimpsonsPod!

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Head there to check out exclusive podcasts like Talking Futurama, Talking of the Hill, the What a Cartoon Movie podcast, and tons more. I heartily endorse this event or product. Ahoy, hoy, everybody, and welcome to Talking Simpsons, the podcast that burns like a Glasgow bikini wax. I'm your host, the man with two knives, Bob Mackie, and this is our chronological exploration of The Simpsons, who is here with me today, as always. Hey, it's Henry Gilbert, and I've never had a term in the Oval Office. And who do we have on the line? Chris Negoshabot Cabin.

And this week's episode is Brawl in the Family. Oh, we'll see about that. One, two, three, go! This week's episode originally aired on January 6, 2002. And as always, Henry will tell us what happened on this mythical day in real world history. Oh my God! Oh boy, Bobby. Nickelback's How You Remind me is number one on the charts disney

re-releases beauty and the beast in imax format and a light aircraft crashes in tampa bay florida that scares everyone but it was just an accident it was just a drunk yes it was one of several times of like is this 9-11 again is? Is this it? And it never was. I knew they would come for my golf course. Everybody was sure that 9-11 was coming for them at every second. Yeah. But you never knew. It was every once in a while.

We had three months of peace. And any moment, it could just come back. But instead, it was us doing the 9-11s every day to a bunch of other people, other places. Absolutely. And yeah, that Beauty and the Beast IMAX re-release, it also had a new song or one of the songs from the musical, the stage musical put into it, Human Again. So they added some stuff to it. So that was part of the IMAX re-release. But Disney was really into IMAX for a brief period of time. again uh it's uh they they added some stuff to it so that was part of the the imax re-release but

disney was really into imax for a brief period of time you're really doing imax way the way the hell back in 2002 oh yeah yeah at january 1st 2000 i remember where i was i was seeing fantasia 2000 in imax in the one imax theater uh in florida these at the saint augustine golf course uh was where yes yeah but it was a true imax screen none of this bullshit i see imax movies and pay the extra at an amc theater it's like a little bit bigger it's not it's not imax yeah it's real bait and switch yeah i want to be overwhelmed and a lot of them like i saw pacific rim on a quote-unquote uh imax and it was like it was like literally uh just the big theater like that's just what it is so probably some technical maybe they own that theater imax i don't know i mean maybe maybe it's

got slightly better speakers in it but it sounds right yeah yeah no i i there's there are some real ish imax theaters in san francisco but yeah it's not it's not true but yeah the beauty and the beast imax i did not see that and nickelback yes nickelback it's the era of nickelback in 2000 uh well 2002 is starting uh and uh well technically it's just chad kroger who sings the song hero and spider-man in a few months after this. But, you know, Chad Kroger, I love his grocery stores, hate his music. That's a little reference for all you Kroger heads out there. But we all remember how you remind me.

How you remind me of how I really am. It truly was a rotten time to be alive wasn't it yeah it was that transition time of when new you were seeing new metal fade into a kind of emo metal like but not like aor like not like actual metal like am rock and that's what nickelback was to me it was just like that the the cheapness of new metal with like a certain like divorced dad emotional core to it yeah it's like you're lifting weights in your new apartment after you leave your wife that's what you blast yeah it goes from stained to nickelback like stained was kind of the one that bridged the gap i think it's uh it's the stuff divorced dads were listening to in pre-divorce times before they even married the

wife they would later divorce. They'd listen to it when they're 21. They were training to be divorced in the future. Hit the gym every day. You know what's going to go down. But yes, it's 2002. This is our first Simpsons of 2002. Just a disgusting, awful year.

I mean, 2002, much worse than 2001 yes yeah you at least you got like you know eight good months of 2001 before everything got pretty bad you got to get you know you got to see shrek in theaters and so many other great things in 2001 and it all went to hell and now we're in the aftermath but joining us for this is uh chris cabot of we hate movies welcome back to the show chris hey fellas thank you for having me back chris this is Chris Cabot of We Hate Movies. Welcome back to the show, Chris. Hey, fellas. Thank you for having me back. Chris, this is a big episode because it's not only the first of 2002, but it's also the start of the Al Jean era of him as this showrunner of the show, which has been the

last two decades of the series as well. So it's a big, big moment for the series. It's not surprising. I had a real problem with this episode. I'll just say it off the bat. But yeah, I can see how this would connect to the current iteration. This episode represents an important moment in Al Jean's life and an important moment for job security. Oh, yes.

Yeah. These guys would have this job forever. Yeah. And we did an entire little history on on al jean actually so now we're going to do a little thing i want to call a uh a showrunners corner uh and this is about al jean a guy we know and love and who still needs to talk to us yes yeah still even though we've never reached out yet not really no but uh you know i feel like at least once or twice in the last five years i

have done a when he's replied to me on a thing on twitter uh when i've asked him a question which he was very nice with i then say hey would you ever do an interview i'm right here and there's no reply so uh you know i hate but the offer still stands al we still can we call you al that wasn't supposed to be a reference to a thing. He would appreciate that kind of reference. Yeah, actually he would. Yeah. But yes, Alfred Ernest Jean III. And we've, we've covered him quite a lot in the show, but yeah, I guess, how did Al Jean go from a guy who quit the show in season four to the longest serving by far showrunner in the entire series history and who will likely never

be surpassed as i don't think anybody else will run the show for 22 years in a row like gene did well after we're dead it'll happen probably i suppose so i feel like disney will have faster turnover than that like you get a decade out of a person tops you know then you're paying them too much that's that's also true yeah but i mean yeah aljean the fast version of him ahead of this was you know he's a very very smart young lad went to harvard at i believe 16 graduated at 20 uh comes from uh you know a detroit michigan background his dad owned a hardware store you know a regular dude regular dude, not one of those Harvard Bluebloods. And also a big old nerd who sounds like a dork, as he says so many times in the commentaries, but he's actually a big guy. He's a very tall man.

Yeah. And loves comic books. Loves comic books. Yeah. We were both super fans of the Stanley and Steve Ditko era of Spider spider-man which i mainly want to just ask him about that what's his favorite what's your favorite issue do you own amazing fantasy 15 aljean i would think you would if i was as rich as multiple copies yeah one in each room uh but all right so him and mike reese show ran the show from uh seasons three and four and during the tail end of season four they worked on the critic and were very exhausted

and uh left the show uh but the as a lot of this i take from mike reese's book because it charts them working together at their time away from simpsons and why they came back and that book's called springfield confidential you should read it if you haven't yet as a simpsons fan so they work on the critic at abc they're like crap this really doesn't work at ABC. Like this just isn't the right place for it. It should be on Fox after the Simpsons. And they sign a deal to move the critic to Fox. And that doesn't go so well for them because the boss at Fox who approves the critic then stops working there. The new boss doesn't like the critic. By the way, we have-series about the critic talking critic on the patreon and we cover every episode even the web cartoons so we tell a lot of the behind the scenes stories there uh and at the same time as

being under contract to disney starting in 1994 disney allows them to do a secondary deal to create four episodes of the simpsons as well as doing various ad deals like the nfl and major league baseball simpsons crossover cartoons of the mid 90s have absolutely the feel of the aljean writers room on it and honestly that was the billy eilish meets the simpsons of the 90s really like simpsons have been doing advertorial content like this for decades. Oh, yeah. Yeah. But they got paid very well by Disney in that overall deal.

As Reese says it in his book, they pitched like 100 ideas for TV shows. Basically, none of them were made. Sounds like well-paid creative torture. Al Jean in Reese's book is quoted as saying, a development deal is where a studio pays you a lot of money for the proof for the privilege of ruining your career so well i mean uh go back to the commentaries on the record uh he did not like working for disney yes yeah he wouldn't probably wouldn't be as negative now if he i also saw i i watched a interview with gene

where he is he always was the more diplomatic guy than Mike Reese in interviews. Because Mike Reese in Springfield Confidential, very direct of, Matt Groening hated the critic crossover and he took his name off it. But when Gene is asked about that public fact in the Emmy Academy official interview archive, he goes like, well well I wouldn't speak for Matt Grady that's that's his story to tell which I was like wow that is the right diplomatic thing to say this is why you're the in management and Mike Reese will quit uh showbiz yeah Mike Reese named the guy who canceled the critic yeah it was his fault we were doing well and so yeah it was

1998 they're working together a ton they do the Teen Angel show it was 1998. They're working together a ton. They do the Teen Angel show. It was horrible. And so in 98, Gene and Reese's deal is up. They then have a cordial professional breakup because they had written together for like, I think like 13, 14 years professionally at that point. And even longer if you count college. But Reese was just sick of it he couldn't stand it

anymore he could it it's it did seem like absolute torture to go through that process to try to approve with executives over and over again like every single idea he did and this is 20 years ago when the notes are even uh less bad than they are now that teen angel broke him and we might be looking at it uh it's 25th anniversary is coming up this fall i hope to look at it soon yeah but and so gene decides while reese is going to just quit hollywood and travel the world with his wife al gene is going to go back to the simpsons and you know mike scully even mentioned to us in our interview with him like you know once al gene was available yes we were going to hire him back like he could definitely be trusted as a co-executive producer on the show

to handle stuff as needed and i think he they could trust him to do a pretty good job uh though it's funny mike reese i think basically quit show business for like 18 months and then he just couldn't not do it he's like no i have to do it and the year 2000 was when he started his one day a week rewrite room gig at the Simpsons. Al then came in in season 10 and he would officially become showrunner with season 13. But it's just like I think he was doing light showrunning. I think Scully gave him some episodes to do like co-showrunner work on because I call this back to the deleted scenes in season 12 gene comments on why scenes were deleted more than scully does okay that's the call made by showrunner right i assume he was given just a very senior role before he was a showrunner he certainly wasn't

like well you're a staff writer gene back to the back to the line back at the end of the line for you but of course al couldn't be a full-time showrunner because him mike reese and james l brooks signed a big big deal for some wonderful internet money oh no they they signed an overall deal gracie film signed an overall deal with first with shockwave uh in march of 2000 uh that somehow turned into the gig at icebox right but those were the nfts of their day like this giant scam uh that caused the bubble to burst and uh so many simpsons writers are attached to those icebox shows yeah yeah but they're now forgotten some of them are on youtube that like illegally uploaded but it was a rotten time you can go to the icebox official website

still and find some of them you can't find mr wong i'm still waiting for the conclusion to zombie college uh and gene's one episode story jesus and his brothers is still on there if you want to see what about hard drinking lincoln that was uh reese's cartoon i think it's still there i think it is i did see the uh what was it bill corbett did the one of the dog or he's part of it the the poker playing dogs one i remember that one there was a lot of those everyone was getting these deals for web cartoons if you had any tv experience in the year 2000 and gene said it took forever it took longer to make than an episode of simpsons which he was told like no the the internet's supposed to be fast like i i don't understand

this but once the icebox deal was dead and right before september 11th i think uh that's when gene is is freed up to be a full-time showrunner again and on top of that as scully uh told us in one of our interviews with him scully kept thinking the show was gonna end and he didn't want to leave the series to like a one season showrunner for the last season but then it just kept going and so he's like well if i ever want to make a show of my own which you know a foolish thing to do you should just stay at the simpsons forever and keep collecting them big big fat paychecks and this is gene's first episode as solo showrunner and it's funny because i was online at the time very online in the simpsons fan communities and we thought oh thank god al gene is coming to rescue us from the evil mike scully not really remembering that oh yeah al

gene's been on the show for two years before he takes over as showrunner. But here's the thing. Like, the tone of the show doesn't really change because nothing fundamentally will change about The Simpsons, as Joe Biden has said in the past. Nothing fundamentally changed. It's just like Mike's, Al Jean's now in charge. Mike Scully's gone. All the writers remain the same.

So there's no real shift in tone. Everyone online thought like oh finally back to regular you know down-to-earth stories that does not happen i'm not going to say that's good or bad but there's no change in tone because the staff is essentially the same yeah yeah and on top of that the culture they're in is the same too which is a darker dirtier culture and i mean as well definitely in 2001 when you hear aljean's coming back you're just remembering yeah season three and four the best seasons and they are very very very very very very great but when we have watched them with a fine-tooth comb you do see the flaws

that aljean will bring to these and on top of that he now lacks mike reese who i do think was you know both of them i think had their their good traits but especially from reading Reese's Springfield Confidential I think the balance he gave to Al Jean was he is a meaner more cynical guy yeah like is and also that he how many stories have we heard him say just on commentaries of like I thought that joke sucked and wanted to cut it and we're thinking he was probably right and they should have cut it most of the time I agree with him on those commentaries when he when he says you know why did we keep this it's so bad and i think like uh i mean al jean is a good manager in the sense that he wants to keep everybody happy and

maybe that to spare people's feelings you keep in some jokes that you would otherwise uh savage in the writer's room it's like it's fine for now let's move on and also he's an older guy taking over the show just like mike scully these shows are not run by people in their 20s who can stay until 3 a.m. Or single guys like Dave Merkin who can also stay till 3 a.m. Al Jean has a family. He's got young children. And he's keeping the same hours as Mike Scully. They're working very hard.

But the show, the culture has changed from the 90s. Oh, yeah. And there was like a crunch, like comedy crunch on this show in the 90s yes yeah there's there's just so many sitcoms going on there's not a lot of people to hire i i was thinking that too of like you know the mental exercise of let's go back to 2001 who do you pick like we already know that you get the feeling that james l brooks wasn't in love with what oakley and weinstein did. Oh, absolutely, yeah.

So it doesn't seem like he'd want to pick another couple of young guys to do it, which is certainly what Matt Selman, who at the time was 31, would have been. And most of the other guys around him, too, who'd never showrun before, which is Oakley and Weinstein had never showrun before, too. And I, I think we would both agree did an amazing job but not according to the guy who hires people yeah i think dave merkin was the only guy with showrunning experience uh that they hired a showrunner yeah except for like sam simon of course and james l brooks and that was and i mean yeah then on top of that it's like well it seems like george meyer doesn't want to be

the boss like i don't think he did he he co-showrun some stuff with, well, he's like co-EP with Scully, but I don't think he's showrunner. I also think, you know, from the description of him as a writer, he doesn't sound like a guy who wants to be management. I don't think. I don't think so. And then the only other co-EP in the previous season is Ian Maxton Graham,

who would have been far worse than Al Jean, I would say. I think so. Well, let's not say far worse, but I would bet he'd be worse and so then you're just left with like you know as Dan Graney called him and I'll never forget it when we asked him when he asked him like how does Al Jean compares the showrunner to Mike Scully he said like Al Jean steady Eddie you know he just makes sure it gets it gets out the thing's finished you get it on time that's what you count on with aljean it's consistency you know and he's kept the show uh popular and profitable and profitable too yeah he's always got these numbers he does

oh yes yeah he's a very statistic based guy i would say which i mean hey he's a harvard he's a bachelor's in mathematics from uh from harvard so of course he's saying like and you know what ratings did this this year and or we won this many emmys so if you're saying since i came back on so if you're saying we suck now maybe the emmys think we are stupid too then like that was actually basically one of his acceptance speeches i saw but um so yeah al taking over the job that happened officially announced by in variety april 30th 2001 though likely set into motion a little before that so that would stay that way april 2001 basically to 2020 i think or even 2021 uh when matt matt selman it seemed like uh i think

in season 31 got to show run a handful of episodes but now it's half show running selman show runs half the series and gene does the other and it sounds like it's just you've got two bosses it's half show running. Selman show runs half the series and Gene does the other. And it sounds like it's just you've got two bosses. It's the same pack of writers, but you got two different bosses doing it. And you know what? You can't tell all the time,

but I definitely can tell mostly the difference between a Gene and a Selman episode, I think. You know, I think so. And I think it also frees up Al Gene to work on advertorial junk also which is what he's very busy with in the shorts which are i guess advertorials yeah that's what i meant yes yeah and uh and you know what selman he's a spry 52 61 uh let's get this

young buck out there running some shows uh and yeah you know what i would say my my diagnosis on gene is like i think he's a better manager than a comedy writer these days like i think he's good and i think he gets a little too into focus testing really yeah i think that's a problem the movie was evidence of that yes for sure and yes we'll talk about it so we've already talked about it on two other podcasts but we'll talk about it on our own uh i don't know about five years yeah and uh though you know what i also want to say when i think of like why was jean different from season four al jean to the you know season 13 showrunner al jean it's not just that he lost mike reese i do think disney's psychological torture of during that uh development

deal i literally makes you doubt your abilities yeah like if you had every boss above you for five years saying like this sucks this sucks i'll never make it you should do this not that i feel like that would fuck you up yeah that's a good point i mean uh to i i respect al jean and i really enjoy the work he's done but a hallmark i i view in his work from this period onward is a lack of confidence yes when they should have every right to be confident for being on the simpsons and for being a successful show for that long yeah there's no reason you shouldn't be confident but for some reason maybe it was a psychological torture making teen angel all these executives telling him your show sucks you're not

funny i mean we talked about this on the critic uh miniseries but the president of fox brought them into a room screen the critic and he's like you tell me why you think this is funny yes yeah i i think i do think that has an effect on you i mean reese quits like hollywood because of that too and yeah i think you know uh i i also we probably we as simpsons fans have some of the blame for his uh psychological makeup too like downing himself is also because uh he didn't read probably one good review of his blame for his psychological makeup too like doubting himself is also because uh he didn't read probably one good review of his shows for a long time or every interview he gave from 1999 to now yeah has one question of so why does your show suck now or why is it not as good

exactly doing it like i know his canned response because he's got to say it every time like well people said that we sucked in season four yeah our shows were great and they're still great yeah I mean uh like on a personal level uh when we do the Simpsons podcast occasionally people are tactless and they'll be like oh good luck with that guys wait till you get to the bad episodes uh your podcast is gonna end and they laugh and we're like hey this is our jobs but like at every party and every interview his peers uh you know media they're always saying your show stinks what's going on why do you still have a job fucker and so it's got to be like a million times worse than for him yeah i i'd also say that in the last few years i think somebody told al jean you got to get better pr because his initial response to the problem with apu and the critiques

and that was not good and i think he i believe he learned some lessons from that so that that was good uh but and and also yes i think it's funny that this commentary features aljean talking about the literal stagnation of simpsons hiring and how there's only so many guys they hire and then they don't hire nobody else and everybody no one wants to leave the job so I I thought that was funny too I mean I really see him becoming uh the Lorne Michaels figure of the show like even if he leaves a hands-on show running role I feel like he'll always be behind the scenes as like the puppet master you know yeah yeah he is the face of the show yeah I mean I. Yeah, and I mean, I do the math on this. James L. Brooks just turned 82.

You know, that's not a young man. I'm sure he's taking great care of himself, all that stuff, but it's like, you know, if Al Jean's 61, what if Brooks retires and he's like, hey, Al, you can do this for 20 years, and then, I don't know, put the 73 year old uh

Matt Selman as the steward of it but yeah I definitely think Al is being groomed to be the future James L Brooks holding for holding the fort down for the next 20 years until you know 2042 and at that point what even is entertainment at all you know i have no fucking idea i like the show before it was all holograms yes or holograms holograms yeah but yeah so this is the start of the gene era though this is where we're in and we're going to be it for a long long long time there will be no other showrunner corners this is the only one i guess in 2040 when we get to it well when selman's first show run episode in like season 30 i guess but yep so hey enjoy it folks uh there's but there's also another thing to note about this episode uh in the start of season 13 that i learned through my gene research which

is i think season 12 was nearly the last one because they didn't sign the new the cast members to a new deal until right before season 13 started. If you remember in season 10, the Simpsons cast was threatening to strike if they did not get a raise in a big one and they were all going to do it together and they got it. And the idea of the deal was that if they make it to season 13 they're all going to get a big raise and a bonus and if i know studio executives they would cancel a show just because of that they'd be coming because they were going to have to give 100k extra to every uh six all six voice actors and a million dollar bonus to each of them uh if they made it to a 13th season so the fact that they did do that and factor that into the math i think that shows you that fox was way more behind simpsons in season 13 than you would have thought in season 10 and now they've all taken pay cuts

right uh yeah i mean so yeah after season 13 it went up and up and up and up like creeping up to like 250 per episode and then i think that's when uh you know fox came to them with outturned pockets like we can't afford to pay you more you gotta they they they actually put all the weight on the actors to say like if you guys don't take pay cuts and we're gonna fire everybody so how you like that like yeah we're just a widow tv station we don't have anything please don't please don't bankrupt us this little place is falling apart yes yeah yeah it's uh and so yeah they but yeah they they gave everybody a raise they renewed it for three more seasons when they did that so uh and not and also they signed up dan castellaneta

and his wife deb uh lacusta to an overall deal to produce things for fox seemingly nothing came of that but they'll write a clip show uh pretty soon right i bet you that's part of that deal i bet you and uh and also a big part of signing that deal as reported in variety into in april of 2001 there's a backdoor clause in there that in those three seasons they might start production on a movie but that'll never happen nope nope no never and i was also trying to think like why else would fox do this and it's like the the variety article says that it is still the highest rated show in the 18 to 49 demographic fox has so they're like well we got to keep it for that reason and additionally uh at

this time they're selling those DVDs now. 2001 is the first year they sell DVDs. And that's right. So many that they have to be thinking, if we make a season 13 and we sell those DVDs, we sell millions of those that already paid for this season of it. So I can I would bet to a degree the DVDs probably saved the Simpsons as well. And continue to lucky season 13. I think you're totally right. DVDs probably saved the Simpsons as well and continued the lucky season 13. I think you're totally right. DVDs resurrected Family Guy and Futurama.

They definitely extended the life of the Simpsons. For sure. Oh, 100%. I remember the Walmart near my high school. You could go there at midnight the night before it was going to come out and you could buy the new Simpsons. And I saw saw kids a bunch of kids there when i went to do it for a season specifically i remember seasons three and four but like i assume it was there for first and second like it was a big deal that the simpsons was on dvd oh that's awesome man i you know i should have done i i would just go to the best

by an opening day or the opening hour of it i I should have gone to my local 24-hour Walmart instead and just been there at one in the morning. The big warehouse ones. Yeah. I guess to give some context about DVDs to go on a side tangent here, it was a novelty to get an entire season on DVD for like $30 in 2001. Now, when you like check out of a store there's like here's all of night court for three dollars just take it just just shoplift it we don't care but in 2001 it's like i think like things like the sopranos or the x-files are in these big expensive 200 box sets but the simpsons was like a reasonably priced dvd box set i think helped influence how those releases would be

handled in the future oh yeah oh yeah there's huge warehouses all over this great nation full and everybody thinks they're like data farms and like places where like bitcoin is being produced or not anymore i guess but uh like but i'm telling you it's all like ark of the covenant style boxes of these dvds that they printed on massive tv shows nobody really wanted after maybe like the first wave of fans like one of the first season of er or something like that and so they did that like there's just i can't imagine how many fucking box sets there are out there just rotting away just the three city blocks holding nothing but northern exposure dvds no yeah i've i've noticed on black friday kind of sales that it'll just be like here's look here's all of mary tyler moore for 20 like you can just

have it we i know we sold them season one it's 60 bucks but now you're gonna have the whole thing just right here actually to help to help promote a we hate movies project uh so we hate movies chris you guys do the melro 210 podcast about Melrose Place and Beverly Hills 90210. I'm going through that with my wife, and she's been buying the Melrose Place and 90210 DVD box sets. It is a buyer's market on those, my friend. Oh, man. You can get those for about $8 a season. Yeah, I think Steve has gone and purchased that finally.

I mean, he was really the heart and soul behind it he was like this we have to watch this and i think actually the box sets are maybe the only way you are going to get a copy of the when uh scotty kills himself in uh in beverly hills uh 90210 because they scrubbed that from streaming yeah yeah can't watch it anywhere. There are a few Too Hot for TV episodes that they... Well, Too Hot for 2022 TV episodes that are on the DVDs. Yeah, Not Too Hot for DVD. DVD was never... You could do whatever the fuck you liked on there.

Yeah, that was the Go-Go 2003. They could sell two hours of Kevin Smith talking to people. It was crazy. They did it multiple times. Many times in many countries. And I bought one of them. I at least rented a few. Yes, I did too.

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that of cringiness that it's actually worth spotlighting it's so awkward uh delroy lindo i don't think he knows what a commentary is or why he's supposed to be there but if i think he thinks it's his role to ask questions yeah and uh and then not be very pleased with the answers yes yeah i i don't know if you gave a listen to it chris uh maybe we should have been sorry we're springing this on you now. Did you listen to that commentary? I didn't get this far into the DVDs. No, I have not heard this one. than the but not that well he's not like but i think that he comes off on the commentary is thinking like this is a phone interview not actually saying i see a thing on screen and now let's talk about it and he's kind of like asking questions to the guys like so how long

you worked on this show did you did you think it was going to be this successful i don't know it's not clear if he knows that it's still on tv because at one point he asked like does this help you with your careers are you doing other things i think he's got a low opinion of the simpsons actually it feels like with his with his leading questions but uh yeah it's it's it's an awkward commentary if you haven't heard it it's kind of unsatisfying but it is funny it's the one commentary i can think of where a guest says, can I go now? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So I have three favorites here. This one first is just the general tone of Delroy Lindo saying how much he didn't wasn't

that excited about doing this podcast or this this commentary. As a result of the fact that my my my niece and my nephews in Philadelphia, all of a sudden I got all kinds of cred because I had done The Simpsons. So when they called me and said, oh, Uncle Del, are you really cool, man? You did The Simpsons. That's when I watched it. It was probably weeks, maybe even months after it had originally aired. So that's the answer to your question.

He does a lot of that. I'm like, so that's the answer to your question. Yeah. There'll be no further discussion. Maybe it just had a really bad day maybe the car didn't start that morning i mean i don't know what i that definitely seems like he did not want i mean i guess that's like the go-to answer when you did something either for credit or for money is that like oh well my nieces or my son or my daughter it loves this

thing and they just they had to see me do it. Like I remember Tom Lee Jones saying, that's why he did Two-Face. And of course it wasn't the dump truck of money. It was that his son was so into it, but that is hilarious. Yeah. I mean, this is late 2009.

He's doing this. This is before most people have to be on Zoom or Skype or video chat. So it's new to him. And he's got also has a bad connection. They keep losing him. So I think he's annoyed this uh this is before most people have to be on zoom or skype or video chat so it's new to him and he's got also has a bad connection they keep losing him so i think he's annoyed by that too yeah i think his assistant or somebody keeps setting it back up for him and he's like well also as i learned in my research of uh delroy lindau is that i believe since 2001 he's lived where we me and bob live in in oakland california so it's not even like he he's he's lived where we, me and Bob live in Oakland, California. So it's not even like he's far from Hollywood at this time.

Well, I guess not that far. But this is the longest clip I have of him on the commentary. But his thoughts on what his character looks like is very funny. All right. So here's the question, because I'm just on screen. I just came on screen. When I watched it, I actually watched it this morning in anticipation of coming to do this. And what occurred to me

was that my voice seemed not to... When I look at the image of the character I was playing and I listen to my voice coming out of that character's mouth, it didn't quite add up. So my question, in other words,

the character doesn't sound like he looks. And there's no reason, there's no rule that says I should. But my question is, when you're casting these guest parts, do you go for a voice that will sound, quote-unquote, the way that the character looks? Or are you going for some kind of a name or what or all of the above or what we design the characters after i just want to say we design the characters after we hear the voices so really yeah so uh i'm sorry it didn't work out for you

yeah i'm working on right now i'm gonna read perfect perfect yeah it sounds like he's either saying uh you guys messed up or you miscast me you should have never cast before this drawing uh i mean he's really holding their feet to the fire i will say aljean uh he is the show's diplomat for all of these kind of uh slightly rude and leading questions he has a a good answer for all of them in a way to spare the feelings of the people del roy might be insulting yes yeah oh yeah i mean that would be tough for me i'd like that is that is absolute professional managerial skills right there is being able to walk out of that and not like like i got offended right there uh yeah that's

incredible i mean it's incredible that he said that yeah i just love his question where he's like when i was watching this show and i actually watched it by the way it seems like you guys didn't do a good job can you explain that i also love that like that was silverman doing most of the talking and the response to him there that david silverman and the artist in the room i think that he's being like he's being a little like uh pointedly defensive of like well we do try to make it look like you and i'm sorry it didn't fit the voice we tried like yeah which i i do have to say i kind of agree with him a little i think delroy might be correct now that he brings like now thinking about it it is weird that it the whole time i felt a disconnect between the character and the voice but i mean i guess maybe it's just because

delroy lindo's voice has been in my head since I was a tiny kid. Like, I just remember him since forever being in everything. I mean, I don't know, but it's funny that when he said it, I was like, wait, he might be right on that. Maybe the unspoken thing is they wanted Morgan Freeman, and the character was designed to be a little Morgan Freeman-y. Yes. I wonder.

The look is much more Morgan Freeman-y.any yes yeah i i mean i on some level i thought maybe linda was saying shouldn't you just draw this to just look like me why why does this guy like say have hair because i don't have hair like or why does he have a gray mustache i have a cool black mustache like you know yeah it just it struck me as again it also just might be that i'm so connected to delroy lindo as a character actor that i just can't separate him from his actual image like that really might be it i mean i i love him and every time i see him in something i love it but yeah i think oh and then this is the last bit where so when there's four minutes left in the commentary

and it's it's only 22 minutes uh delroy is uh getting a little tired i think you missed this last clip of the commentary have we covered it fellas or what i think that's about it well if there's any more you want to say we'd be happy to hear i mean no i'm i'm good that's it so not even saying goodbye no yeah yeah i've never heard anyone on a commentary say uh hey we're done yeah is this all you need it's like do you have anything else you want to say no no not even like it was fun to be on the show or you know you know great job you guys absolutely not i just want to go home we normally don't talk about the commentaries uh i mean we talk we reference things set on them but not the way people are acting or, you know, the way people want to leave. But this is the one time it's like we need to get clips. Yes. Because this is just very odd. for a star-studded commentary the downside is that they can't really talk much about the creation of

this episode so we can only make some informed guesses but definitely aljean wanted to deal with the hanging thread of the vegas wives and i think in general based on what he said in many other commentaries you you were mentioning as too to me bob that like i think aljean always says that when a new showrunner comes on this show he goes i'm he or they say we're gonna focus back on the family again we're bringing it back yeah we're bringing it back to the family and every time it's a lie yes yeah so and this episode feels so disparate it's like we always say like act one has a crazy unrelated thing, but like Act 2 is wholly unrelated to Act 3. Like it's just three separate stories that kind of don't touch each other.

Yeah, the guest star is only in the second act. And yeah, it is also a real algae tendency in his seasons to quote unquote fix what he views as loose threads. So we have the Vegas wives. Barney will become drunk again, which I approve of. Milhouse's parents get back together. Like he's trying to uh you know bring things back to the status quo that other showrunners might have changed throughout the way but this this feels like a test reel like this feels like like a

patchwork of like from different episodes they started and then had to stop for some reason because if he was trying to bring it back like what i remember about early or what i i think i i go back is that those 25 to 30 minute like narrative arcs like and like yeah there were ones that were split up but like it was strong throughout this is just like it's changing from like every five minutes the story changes that there's also i think another tendency of this algin era is that i feel like a lot of the times every act is a different story a hallmark of the show was the first act with its own set piece that led you to the rest of the story they find the story in the first act they

go to like a fair they go to a rock concert or they go to the park and that's where the story picks up in the second act this one it's like act one what are the simpsons doing a rainy day act two how did the simpsons become a family through this family bonding exercise? Act three, how do they get rid of these sluts that are stuck in their house? That's the show's terms. I think we should respect these sex workers in the show. I agree. Yes.

Oh, 100%. I mean, I think this is a pretty mean-spirited episode. Like, when it is deciding to take sides on something, I find it a pretty mean spirited episode. Oh yeah. Uh, act three is canceled in 2022. We'll talk more about that soon.

But I guess this episode begins, uh, with something that was definitely written before nine 11, because after nine 11, the Simpsons were not for a little bit, they were not as mean to Republicans, uh, as they had been. And this airs months after 9-11, but was certainly written in like April or May of 2001.

Definitely reflecting upon George W. Bush in his early few months before 9-11 and also reflecting upon his bad record with the environment. I mean, that was a big part of the 2000 election cycle. Al Gore was strong on the environment. I mean, that was a big part of the 2000 election cycle. Al Gore was strong on the environment. George W. Bush was weak. And this was written right after George W. Bush pulls America out of the Kyoto Protocol. Right, right, right. So I think that's what this whole act is hinging upon. And, you know, looking back at the just horrors of history, I just look into the history of the Kyoto Protocol, like obama made a ton of promises about the environment and then when it came back to joining the kyoto protocol he was like actually

i uh agree with george w bush about this and uh i'm not gonna do it so and people were like what a smart man yeah he's he's shaking hands across the aisle and fucking over the environment you know what every time 30 of the uh our state burns down every year, I'm like, thank God Obama did not join the Kyoto Protocol and ravage the economy. It really sucks, folks. Yes. It's terrible. Weird that Obama would do something like that. Yeah, I know.

He's known for doing things constantly. And then it's great seeing him in speeches in 2021 of like, you guys, you got to work on the environment. It's in trouble. We need a future. It's like you were the president. You were the president. I mean, there are much worse presidents. There was a much worse president.

But it's also shocking when you go back and say, oh, I thought he was the guy who was supposed to do stuff. Yeah. Well, we let him down as as we all know but uh you know i well also i look back at these jokes from 20 years ago about like boy the climate's getting worse guys i'm like you don't fucking know you have no clue well i mean i'm glad i gotta say i am glad that they're at least uh uh putting blame where it should be on ralph nader uh yes yeah like the the great demon of the fucking early aughts yeah but these are like those are like the jill stein jokes of today yeah yeah which also aljean did in uh the when that time came in the show too so we're

getting really mad at susan sarandon online Which Susan Sarandon loves the Simpsons. She wears her jacket everywhere, you know? It shouldn't be so mean to her. But yeah. Let's hear our first clip of the return to the Republican castle last scene in season six's sideshow, Bob Roberts. Let's get started. First, I'd like to announce that thanks to the magic of Disney animatronics, Strom Thurmond will live another hundred years. Twenty more terms.

Moving on to new business, what act of unmitigated evil shall the Republican Party undertake this week? Oh! Oh, oh, oh! You've already done enough, Nader. Let's get rid of PBS. Those lousy Muppets have been taking food out of my mouth for too long. Hmm. I say we crack down on the hippies.

What about this dang environment? Back in Texas, we got rid of it. And it made everyone a lot happier. Excellent. We shall destroy the environment by scrapping every interpollution law. Now, Bob Dole will read from the Necronomicon. Azak, Azuri, Galanath, Maledictu, Nosferamus, and Principe. I love that.

I just like him doing the Bob Dole voice. Just to spite us, Bob Dole died two months after Norm MacDonald. Evil. Or three months. Yeah. I hate it. And of course he lived that longer than him of course god hate it he was just waiting around for norm to die i bet that was just one of those little bets he had with him like just in the background you never knew i i gotta tell you i really it took me looking this up to find out that strom thurman was still alive in 2002

that really shocked me and that he was still he was still alive in 2002. That really shocked me. He was alive. He didn't die until the summer after. Like 2003, I think he died. Famously, Joe Biden's best friend, Strom Thurmond. Eulogized proudly by him. I mean, we knew a lot about Strom Thurmond in his past. But it all came out. A lot of the more steamy stuff came out after he was dead where

in 2003 uh it was revealed that uh he had an illegitimate child with a a black woman it could have been statutory rape they don't know the age of the woman he was 22 she was either 15 or 16 if she was 16 it was legal if it was if she was 15 that's statutory rape and then he goes on to like you know kind of give her money behind the scenes to help raise the kid and then in 2017 he's been dead for uh 14 years he's canceled from beyond the grave he gets me toed oh really yes i missed this yeah all of this stuff came up came out about him like groping women forcing himself on women trying to kiss women cokie roberts the journalist said when it came to that he was in a league of his own jesus man and she talked about how strong this this disgusting ghoul tried to kiss her on the mouth oh yeah

so he was canceled from beyond the grave damn it in 2017 i mean when we all looked at him then we knew he was like one of the most evil living beings you could imagine but to now have this information exactly god what the worst fucking guy like like like a obscenely racist just awful awful man there to be racist and prevent uh any any type of progress as best he can especially on race like yeah just awful but but that's why when he does 20 more terms i feel like a toothier joke would have been him saying something racist like yeah yeah like it was them just saying oh he's just old like it was like an old joke not a be just be right up front and called trump thermon racist we all know it's like come on i mean that's what i kind of did what a part of like

this was an early warning sign to me of what was happening in the episode because i there are no points really to the joke like even the bob dole thing which i also think is funny as like pure delivery but like there's no point to like there's no like stinger at the end of the joke it's literally just him reading from what the necronomicon would sound like and like i'm just like well where's the sting where's like the button where's the exclamation point where's any of that and it all just kind of seemed very flat line from the beginning well i guess they're just generally evil like that is it like republicans are just generally evil and that's it it's some of it is because reality has outpaced satire by quite a bit where this joke about crusty wanting to like shut down the muppets for stealing from him uh taking money out of his pockets that was like a campaign promise of mitt romney in 2012 he directly threatened big

bird he directly said we're going to cut the subsidies to pbs yeah yeah no trump wanted to do the same thing he some people thought he'd pull it off but apparently he did not that like when i looked into this only 15 of pbs is paid for by the government anyway and the rest is from viewers like you biden has said he planned to boost it some but i couldn't see if that was like you know he gets so many headlines on like biden's budget says it'll do this i was like well did the budget go through i'm not sure i i well you know just like prisons uh sesame street was privatized yes that's why big word big bird sells you doordash or whatever no yeah so yeah the sesame streets uh you know pbs defensively will say that new

episodes are released nine months after on pbs so it's just that hbo max has a timed exclusive guys you poor kids gotta wait and and also hbo gets a ton of exclusive sesame street news shows like that elmo talk show thing that's on hbo max but but yes i'm sure jim henson would have wanted it this way that's that's for sure oh yeah he would have loved all this shit do they do the does pbs get like uh the sopranos or peacemaker in nine months or is it just the just the sesame street that should be part of the deal man i would hope at least uh public broadcasting gets a little money back that they can then put into other shows by selling sesame street like that but i mean yeah you're uh but chris yeah this the teeth on this are just saying like hey we can all we can mock red staters

for their hate of the environment like that's an you know, if we're going to talk about, you know, say invasions of countries or abortion. Oh, that might piss off some red state viewers. But environment's not easy enough, you know? Yeah, that's easy enough, too. You can you can do soft hits on that. And I mean, not even to say that, like like there is a weirdly an abortion joke in this but it's like weirdly coded you have to know like you would have to know what the drug is called you gotta google it's also kind of like slut shaming someone for wanting to use it

yes in a way yes it is though also on the on the environmental thing i mean too i mean it was the administration full of literal oil executives like dick cheney ran the energy to i mean it was the administration full of literal oil executives like dick cheney ran the energy task force like it was uh it's hard to remember exactly how awful w was uh in in those specific ways even when i looked up this i was like oh yeah that is really bad that was really bad we're just used to how bad things are now that i forgot how they made this bad. Like the, the W and his administration did it,

but you know, it's bathwater. You get used to it. Well, I mean, that's the thing. Like that was, I remember the Bush era being the first time where like you were being asked

to describe something while everything was exploding. Like that's how you could pay attention. That's the only way you could pay attention to what was going on. So much shit was happening and you were asked to pay attention to all of it and now that is just what you are expected to do as a human being who is attached to the internet uh but like that was the first time where i was like oh fuck i have to read a paper every day oh fuck i have to check this website every day oh fuck i have to do like i just constantly in my head being about that there's a new michael moore book yes i just read one al franken too so yes they also i noted that brockman said the administration i i it could it could be that they didn't want to be so negative on directly george bush or it

could be they're like well it would date it if we said george w bush did this they if you say the administration then it works forever you know it's like you're being vague but they they introduced choppy the lumberjack who murders a hippie on screen which i gotta say see this is again they're like they're slight left punching the conservationist could just be right but they instead have to make him a whiny hippie. Yeah. Yeah. I like Homer's note on a grizzly bear with a chainsaw. Now there is a killing machine. Nelson bullies an endangered owl. I mean, this definitely notes that like, yeah, the 90s are over.

We don't care anymore. Like, forget, fuck these endangered animals. Fuck these wetlands. You know, I read a positive thing about the wetlands, which have been shrinking forever, but they're starting to grow again in Florida. Thanks to rising sea levels. So this is good for everyone. Yeah.

Oh, it's a silver lining. Yeah, definitely. Uh, this episode was nominated for an environmental media award. Uh, a fact that Al Jean was kind of ashamed of because he said they were

nominated just for these scenes, just a bunch of jokey scenes about, you know, devastation of the environment. They lost to, uh, a Dharma and greg episode by the way uh and uh i mean back in the time when you you had to worry about competition from dharma and greg i mean that alone is a shock to the system that's i mean heat behind it sorry chris do they still i i was trying to look into this because i saw this thing about the environmental award.

I couldn't find anything about down the line winners. I think you have to do isolated searches. To me, it just screams like money laundering or something weird. Why would you have this specifically for a TV show that is literally like, you know, the be hurt and it can hurt us back and that's essentially all that they're telling you well you know filmmakers and tv makers have they have such a carbon footprint they feel guilty about they have to give themselves awards sometimes to feel less guilty i suppose that's true apparently the other thing in the category that was nominated was a episode of becker becker becker becker okay yeah there's some other funny gags uh

the blinky the fish dies is eaten by four-eyed fish eaten by that is then eaten by six-eyed fish that then homer eats this also feels this whole run reminds me of the opening to the simpsons movie like it's a lot of environmental jokes there too yes yes good point good point and then comes in acid rain which so i look this, it's like there's multiple articles from the last few years called like, why did acid rain go away? You never hear about it anymore. And in America, let's not celebrate too soon, but apparently America actually with emissions laws kind of did curtail acid rain in this country. like it apparently still happens to some degree in the northeast in some more industrial areas but it actually doesn't happen in that much in north

america comparatively to 25 years ago though in other parts of the globe acid rain is still very much a reality especially say in industrialized parts of india and china from from my research but as he asked if you're like oh acid rain that's so dated it actually apparently we have many problems with our environment but apparently acid rain in america not as big a problem now i hate to say that because i feel like somebody's gonna say no look at this news you were just reading bad news stories this one says it's just as bad now but apparently not well that kind of because back in the day like when in the 90s and in the early aughts you did still have like uh if there was gonna be an environmental disaster it's gonna be something you know it wouldn't be great but you

could live with it like acid rain it would suck but you could live with it like sometimes it would stop or you would find like we would get new umbrellas that would work with it all this but like now it's so like overwhelming like you literally can't look past anything but constant flooding like that is the nightmare scenario it's just like everything flooded out like you can't joke as small as acid rain acid rain would actually be a blessing if that's all we were looking forward to and so uh the rainy day has come again it's it's melting squirrels the white martyr says better stay inside at least until the squirrels stop melting uh they briefly watch a parody of blind date yeah i had to look

this up because i was a viewer uh of these dating shows uh the person i was dating at the time was into them i wasn't me but it brought me back to the days of blind date eliminate and of course shipmates with that charming man chris hardwick one of the future dukes of podcasting speaking of me too anyhow uh yeah this there was like along with like the judge show boom there was also a dating show boom of this era because nothing can ever die this show came back in 2019 without roger lodge i will say boom yeah it's gotta get roger lodge now i yeah i of all of those i watch blind date the most because i hate to admit uh as it is a trashy show but there is something about the

pop-up video jokes on the people that may that entertained me that just hit my brain i was like oh didn't they do like uh thought bubbles and you know clip art and stuff to kind of dress up these these uh dead-eyed losers dating each other yeah my favorites were when the woman like starts stirring her straw and the like the psychiatrist pop-up thing would say she's thinking about how his dick probably sucks or whatever like he's no good at bed i remember the last one i remember watching was the one where it was uh nerds and models being paired up and like they were all object i forget it had like it wasn't the hottie and the naughty but it's something like that and oh yeah like date the geek or something or like something yeah yeah geek that's i forget the name of it but i the funniest thing about it was

like all these guys were like objectively handsome they just had glasses on that was like literally they just did the rachel lee cook thing except for with guys uh and like i'm sure there was one or two duds that i'm forgetting but like i remember most of them like yeah of course anybody would want to date that or what are you talking about well mo would not be on uh fuck boy island that's one of the newer dating shows love is blind maybe that voice he might he might be able to get something you know also though that the line of him saying it was nice and her replying he smelled like puke i feel like there's a darker joke they changed that line too i don't know they i i wonder if al jean curtailed some of the um roofie jokes that they had previously done with mo and because if i'm in season 12 mindset and

i'm pitching mo goes on a date joke you either say he's a stalker or he has roof and all like yeah yeah well uh i mean we we talked about it when we did the episode but the paul bunyan parody uh has moe carrying away a giant roofie yeah go to the barn dance yeah but but so yes the the antenna then melts they have no tv a fun bit of homer going outside to scream and getting rained on going back in and seeing the tv's broken and go in screaming more in and out screaming a bunch. Then Marge is saying, stop screaming, Homer. Quit trying to control me. And boy, this was a runner, though.

The rainy day fun. How many times have we watched them look at a pile of board games? That's true. Or like craft kits. Yeah, either craft kits, board games, all this stuff. It's like the fifth time, it feels like. Also, a simpler time. This was the dawn of theme monopoly. Because because before this everyone was making their own illegal theme monopolies i remember like a kiosk at the mall it's like if do you like a sports team

we have our own monopoly based on that sports team and then monopoly was like hey we could do rick and morty monopoly we could do stranger things monopoly that gives away the entire show yes yeah yeah that's right yeah there's a spoiler in the monopoly version of stranger things oh that's so fun i forgot that right yes oh man i would have god what was it just sports teams like did they have like a cheers monopoly or like did was it just the those kinds of brands oh well the the bootlegs would be yeah i remember in my area there was Jaguarsopoly. Yeah. But yeah, the Simpsons had a Monopoly by the time this joke came out. They had their own. I bought

it this year. I still have my 2002 Simpsons Monopoly set. Oh, that's awesome. Because it's very easy. It's very flat, easy to move around. But then they made another one. There's like another edition. There's a Treehouse of Horror version, yeah. But when I looked, I've never played and but but when i looked i've never played it but when i looked at the board of it the fight my favorite thing is that all the

railroads are monorails and the monorails are shelbyville ogdenville and the north haverbrook along with the springfield monorail which that's pretty fun that's nice i like that we better stay inside at least until the squirrels stop melting. No problem. There's plenty of activities inside. Now let's see how our blind dates liked each other. Oh, I really felt there was a connection, and I would definitely go out with her again. He smelled like puke! The TV! The TV! TV!

Stop screaming, Homer. Quit trying to control me. We don't need TV to have family fun. Why don't we play Monopoly? Which version? We've got Star Wars Monopoly, Rasta Monopoly, Gallipolopoly, and Necrobopoly. Let's stick to original Monopoly. The game is crazy enough as it is.

How can an iron be a landlord? Also, it seems Gallipolopoly, that's a reference to World War I. Edna Crabopoli seems like she's selling her own sexy version of it. But also, The Sopranos has a perfect episode about this, too. It's the season six B premiere called Sopranos Home Movies. Monopoly does tear families apart. Like it is made to cause fights. How we use electricity can be smarter,

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ireland.ie like it's that's that's what it's for my family stopped playing it because i always won ah that i see i think it's because i was a kid and my parents would drink beer while we played and uh you know the the thinking process is slowed down a bit but i will say uh the crustiest joke in this episode is uh using the the phrase mon to make a jamaica joke monopoly yeah oh it's so crusty but you know in my family the fights would usually be about mom making a deal with me or my brother over uh over the other one and we're like oh why did you pick his deals he's like well he's got the property i want or whatever and then oh man and then like the cultural divide i never went through the divide of like well we say grace this way in this house but if you go to somebody else's

house like well yeah if you land up free parking you get the the taxes collected and somebody else goes that's not in the rule book well it's house rules like people have difference of opinion on that i mean the uno was the only thing that broke the icy silence in my house uh that we did monopoly was not one but i definitely uh witnessed my father getting more heated than anybody should be over a particularly harrowing session of Jenga. Oh, wow. It was very intense into like how you're supposed to pick out each block. And people were not listening to him. And he got into somebody's face about it.

And that's my main memory of dad and board games. Wow, man. about it and uh that's my main memory of dad and board games wow man you know they i think the worst fight my family ever had was over risk because it was like twice as long as monopoly and it involved even more like deals and anger i definitely stormed off from a risk game once once my brother took my last territory uh that was uh but but yeah these these monopoly gags here also a little in homer defined they also had a joke about maggie eating monopoly pizza that's true we just did that except in that episode there were hotels this one they're all houses so a different joke yeah this will this may shock you but they're constantly cycling in new pieces there are certain things that were never part of our childhoods of playing monopoly which is like the canon piece there was never a canon that was retired in 1946 uh the iron the iron uh no longer exists it was retired in

2013 oh wow so an iron can no longer be a landlord wow oh man other famous pieces retired thimble and boot retired in 2017 get out of here we used to be a proper country. Yes. Don't forget what they took from us. That little tiny metal thimble. The only things that the game started with that have been retained are the top hat, the battleship, and the race car. Yeah, they're the sexiest ones. Of course, they're staying. Is the Monopoly man still there?

He's still there. They kind of sex him up a bit sometimes though okay but uh the new pieces are a cat a t-rex a penguin and a rubber ducky and look that's uh i'm sure that entertains the kitties now but i like the i liked that the pieces looked old because it's a game from like the 20s that's part of the the appeal of it one of the pieces was a howitzer like a cannon wow that's that is pretty crazy i mean but i don't was like i mean maybe i just i i i'm not a father so i don't know about kids with with penguins but like was that just like right after march of the penguins and they were like people kids love penguins let's put out a pank like i i'd never think of them as specifically or like happy feet. I don't.

After that wave, I didn't think of penguins as particularly popular, I guess. These were 2017 pieces. So I imagine there'll be a minion in there at some point. Yes, of course. I mean, that's minionopoly. Yeah, it already exists. Or despicableopoly. Yeah.

I'm sure there's that. And there's also like Gruopoly with the Steve Carell character. Isageopoly. But there's one of my favorite jokes in this is the thing where I noted in playing Monopoly as well as somebody counts your spaces before you do and they know where you're going to end up. But the idea that Homer rolls a three, and he doesn't instantly count three, and he's like, Bart just laughs because he knows where he's landing, and Homer goes, we'll see about that.

One, two, three. That's a good joke. Which, though Bart's obviously cheating, he's putting, you're only allowed four hotels up to that much on there. You get four houses, house turns into a hotel, and then up to four hotels. And that's it. You can't have more than that.

Maybe the Simpsons house rules is just put as much real estate as you can on. Maybe they're like a free market. I hate those. House rules are evil. They're evil. Evil. Evil. But yes, the trouble begins in the Simpsons household here.

You're a little light here, Dad. I'm good for the rest, you know I am. Well, I'd like to trust you, Homer, but you've been in jail three times. They told me it would be like this on the outside. These hotels are made of Legos. Bart, you're cheating. Lisa, it was probably an accident. Oh, sure. You take his side just because he bought you

that house on St. James Place. Who else is going to take care of her? Dad? You little Stop fighting. Mom, that's not how you pry them apart. I've been prying them apart since before you were born.

Now, Henry, you're talking about house rules. I think this four hotels on one space was the Gilbert house rule. Oh, wait. You know, I've been throwing them apart since before you were born. Now, Henry, you're talking about house rules. I think there's four hotels on one space. It was the Gilbert house rule. Oh, wait. You know, I'm just misremembering. It's only one hotel, right? Yeah, there's only 12 of the sets.

No, we didn't do four hotels. Okay. Thank you for fact-checking that. I know a commenter would have. Well, how'd you guys deal with, I mean, did you guys do the free parking deal of if you land on free parking you get the money that people pay from jail and taxes i think i found about about that about like at another house oh man i never brought it back home because i didn't like it that sounds like a sleepover rule yeah oh yeah we did that every i i me and my mom played monopoly uh quite a bit but and everywhere we went free parking, you got the money. Okay.

Wow, man. See, that's, that's a different, this is like Catholic versus Protestant upbringing. Though I'm again, I'm on Lisa's side here.

Bart is clearly cheating and Marge saying it was an accident. Like, no, no, it is not an accident. Marge, you know, this like,

but she got a free house out of it. And Marge is so used to the strangling that they're not mad that bart is strangling uh that homer is strangling bart just that lisa is nagging marge to strangle to break it up the right way so then maggie uh very cutely presses the quick call to the police for the strangle button and this gets uh it cuts to wiggum he's training everybody for the nut cracker ballet which i love his like very snippiness about it it's it's cute too uh it cuts to wiggum he's training everybody for the nutcracker ballet which i love his like very snippiness about it it's it's cute too uh it's a good mislead because you think it's going to cut to the simpsons oh yes being uh in a police lineup but instead it's him telling guys

that they're not even trying he also outs a guy as a snitch who's probably murdered right after he leaves the room they they chalk it up to another case of monopoly-related violence as tears apart all families. Case of monopoly-related violence, chief. How do those Parker brothers sleep at night? Better send in the negotiabot. I am Brenda. I am programmed to talk in a calm and constructive manner.

Destroy! Destroy! Hey, this is taffy. Police brutality. And chew-tality. Nice work, Brenda. I'll take it from here. No way. This is my collar.

Too bad real women don't come with these, huh? You got that right. Quiet, you. That counts as your phone call. That scene feels like it was written backwards from the joke tutality like how do we get the tutality yeah yeah well when also the negotiabot is a woman to write backwards for the joke of switching the off switch on a woman and that's a real cake and eat it too because i feel like they should have people roll their eyes at his lame old sexist joke.

But instead, everybody's like, that's pretty funny. You're right, man. Yeah. Yeah. That was quite you. Like, get out of here. And I honestly think rather than putting money into Bearcats, we should be making more Brenda's. People aren't eating as much taffy anymore anyway.

We have a short. You can just use all the old taffy anymore anyway we have a short you can just use all the old taffy and get this going and i think this would be much more appropriate i love i love tress's performances brenda of like destroy like that's great oh man you know the joke uh of of the family being arrested has happened so many times but i feel like this is also gene saying like yeah this is how awful the family has gotten they yeah they need to be arrested routinely and i i think gene too it makes sense that he would be like of the opinion that he needs to create a character to finally ask him what the fuck happened to this family why are you so awful now he doesn't really

address the child abuse though no no which is a major issue in this family yeah i feel like an actual gabriel would say well you can't strangle your son that's first off and then you're under arrest sir at the very least you have to ask him if you can strangle him then maybe but at the very least so uh we come back with the headline, Simpsons arrested in family riot, even Maggie. And they're all in jail. Marge says many times this season, this is their new low that says, that was the joke in the last episode.

Marge says, this is the worst thing you've ever done, which she says in this episode. Yeah, they should have changed that because it literally just happened. Yeah. Also to let you know that Al jean's back in charge a harvard man's back in charge a joke about ivy league colleges because lisa is worried she's not going to get into an ivy league school now and then the joke is settling for stanford which

obviously if you went to harvard and had stanford as your safety school you get that joke all the rest of us do not no not not for us most of us were pretty would be pretty happy to get into stanford oh absolutely i went to a crappy state school yeah uh you know bill oakley and josh weinstein uh they have that harvard stanford split oakley got into harvard weinstein into stanford no weinstein still on his summer vacations at stanford wrote for the harvard lampoon so he technically is a Harvard Lampooner as well. And if you're curious about Stanford, I'm reading that over four years, a Stanford education would theoretically cost about $298,000. But many students do not end up paying that much.

So you know what? Maybe only $250,000. Hey. Not bad. hey yeah yeah it's not bad if you if you skip the meal plan then maybe you can get out with the under 250k well hey if you're lucky enough to have like a relative that lives nearby you can just stay with them easy no not even paying rent so yes this is when in comes gabriel our guest i'll play I'll play his clip first. Hello, I'm Gabriel. A heavenly choir! You must be an angel.

No, that's my pager. I'm a social worker. I'm here to help you stop fighting and become a family again. No, you are an angel. Like Denzel Washington in The Preacher's Wife, or Will Smith in Bagger Vanceance or Slimer in Ghostbusters. Sir, we know you're not an angel. My husband sees too many movies.

Don't blame me. Blame Tinseltown in its second golden age. May it never end. You know, Bob, I think you're right that they did want morgan freeman and they and delroy linda was their secondary which is i i think this design is morgan freeman it really feels like you know that since chris chris mentioned it oh it's chris yes well chris mentioned that it feels like it does it looks like somebody else yeah it's it just it struck me and also the weirdest thing to me is the line about that oh that's just my pager like clearly

if you are like and i know like at this point like character continuity is very low on the list that of things that matter but like you if you have that pager you are into angels and you are into and just like be like oh no that was just my pager sound i just said and like it's a funny enough joke i guess but yeah back to i mean back to your point like i as soon as he walks in and talks like this i'm like wait a minute well i isn't this like right around bruce almighty like bruce almighty is like 2003 i think yes yeah well uh let's okay let's talk about this because this certainly is them commenting on a thing that was in the news then in 2001 when they wrote this. So obviously this trope existed far back in history.

But in February of 2001, Spike Lee was doing an event where he was speaking and he was talking about a thing that was bothering him in recent films in particular, The Legend of Bagger Vance, The Green Mile, The Family Man, and What Dreams May Come. He named those four specifically. And he called it the magical black person, let's just say. But it is, as he defines it, quote, How is it that black people have these these powers but they use them for the benefit of white people and in general it is the magical black person's trope of a character like the ones in all of those movies homer names one of them and i guess technically preachers rife life but because it's a mainly black cast i don't think it counts as that because he's not helping white

people but yeah it was this general point about a racist trope in films that people were noting of like well see you only have one black person in your entire cast but since you make them like god basically in the case of bruce almighty even well then it couldn't be racist because they're making him the most pure person in the world you know well yeah i mean bruce almighty was bringing it all the way back around because i think the origin of that trope i mean it you could probably go way back and find a lot of it but like the thing that modern like as far as the modern understanding of it is i think it's driving miss daisy and morgan freeman being in that and being able to take all the time i mean

if you watch that movie again he takes some shit like i you watch our movies you could not make at whatever she's doing in that movie you could not allow that to happen now and bruce almighty is kind of like the you take them from like yeah like no it's no longer a joke they are god they literally are god and they're going to give the godlike powers to jim carrey and then they're going to shy away, I guess, for the rest of the movie, essentially. I think it has, thanks to critiques like Spike Lee's getting more mainstream and, you know, the credit to the Simpsons, they're making fun of it here, too, that it definitely appears less. And I was trying to think of the last major film that you could call an example that certainly the green book is a bit of that like i'd say there's a really i thank god did not get a lot

of press and it like it made me so sad but eddie murphy did one of these not too long ago really mr church um it is horrible and i'm i'm a eddie murphy die hard i watched that whole damn thing and uh it it i i don't even want to talk about it beyond saying that it exists um and uh yeah i i think it it really is one of those things that i think that was like the last like they offered eddie murphy god knows how much money and they're like this movie is not made anymore until green book is made now who knows maybe it is going to be made again but yeah i i feel like it was a last ditch effort for him to get an award after uh the dream girls uh got normated yeah everybody thought he was going to win for dream girls and it just didn't happen i it's because normit was coming out right before

i reminded people like oh this guy he this guy does garbage like why we can't give this guy an oscar i think he should have won for dream girls i thought he was great in dream i enjoy the mention of slimer but i bet kids these days are saying don't they mean muncher my favorite character please uh you know delroy lindo as far as his typecasting usually it's just he's like a cop or an admiral or a gangster like that often is played that's what he gets typecast as yeah uh some though two of my favorite roles of his he's a gangster in in malcolm x and get shorty like he's he's so good in both of those i mean in malcolm x uh he is this you know scary but tragic tale of like this guy who is running numbers for the whole uh you know of harlem and is making all this money but he's

actually like a super genius who could have been you know malcolm x makes a point of like this guy could have been a a nobel prize winner in science the way he was able to memorize numbers but there was no chance for him like the the system shoved him into this corner and made him die in a gutter somewhere his career is really interesting he started appearing in tv movies in the late 70s and then he disappeared for a decade just to do theater throughout the 80s and then from 1990 on where he's back in tv and movies again and uh the year before this he was in the one he was in heist and he was also in the last castle he was not in any movies that came out into the year 2002 though okay yeah i think he was probably filming the

core this year uh or very early this year was probably what he was doing the core a horrible movie um you guys covered that movie right we we did we and we just actually covered uh the last castle not too long ago and uh it's amazing he that movie is just him essentially uh like cucking james john uh james gandolfini like oh he just comes in to be like james gandolfini you are fucking this prison up i don't know what i'm gonna do with you i'll give you one more try and then robert redford of course fucks him up again but this was just a time when he was doing all these kinds of like he he's in two jet lee movies in like a year it's romeo must die and the one uh it must have been buddies which is pretty cool honestly if you get to be friends with jet lee i was trying to think of lindo and his filmography if he had been part of this trope or been cast in the

specific trope uh and the closest i could find is the film life less ordinary where he does play an angel uh but it's him it's him and holly hunter and they're kind of like bumbling dopes tasked with making two people fall in love with so yes he is a magically powered black man who is doing things for the benefit of a white person. So I are two white people. So I do suppose it is kind of that trope. And he, I think, is the only black man in the film who has any part of notice. But it's been a while since I've seen that movie. That movie is not very.

I mean, I remember. Yeah, they're bumbling angels is the whole point is, but he definitely had two hugely questionable performances. The one in Congo where he's like their handler and he's doing this accent that I don't want to talk about. And the same thing in the devil's advocate where he's like, he's like a guy who's like sacrificing goats to his god and al pacino the devil is like no let him do what he's doing oh wow man i forgot that part it's it's rough stuff

but like as you said like get shorty that's when i think he takes off and then like something like uh defy bloods which i will be one of the only times i actually was like hurt by somebody not getting a nomination by the oscars i that was i mean that to me is one of the best performances of the last few decades is him and that no spike lee uses him well and yeah i don't it's also like on a certain level especially for parts over 20 years ago i don't want to blame the actors too much if their characters like were part of a stereotype because it's like you took what you could get you know like it's they weren't making the movies they're just getting casted on absolutely so yes then this feels definitely like

al jean taking accounting of the entire series i'm like okay how fucked up his little family we need to bring an outsider in here who then can explain to them this family's fucked up guys uh which uh he does first by talking to lisa and marge in a difficult case like this i like to observe each family member individually well my room is my sanctuary my family knows that and respects that i got sprayed by a skunk. Let me rub it off in your sweaters. Just ten more years. Just ten more years. Just ten more years. Attention, everyone. This is Gabriel, my personal social worker. He has to be here. I'm just that nuts. How come you get a social worker? I'm the one with stigmata. Weird.

Thank you, Marge. You sure do love cooking. Food keeps my family happy. So I make a few practice dinners before showtime. Because at six o'clock, we go live. That's the best joke in the episode. Another insane Marge joke that marge bakes a practice dinner that she must just throw away beforehand uh yeah i mean and i love the drawing

matt nastick and his team do a great job on this the the crazy smile on marge's face like that's so good and yeah also that uh that bar it's just so weird millhouse has stigmata out of all things i enjoyed the stigmata has foley you can hear the blood coming out of it yeah that is yeah i was wondering what because it's it's a weird joke because all the other ones are about like how fucked up the kids are and like bart is just like yeah he has to pay attention to me and then here's millhouse doing this weird thing but yeah you're absolutely right the the marge scene to me part of me wonders if those practice dinners are like midnight snacks for homer like because you know he's getting up and he's not always eating the craft singles all the way through sometimes he just needs like an early

take on a roast beef that's actually the 1 a.m lasagna she leaves for homer that eats every night yeah uh but gabriel's discomfort at it is great too i like that and uh and then we get uh honestly this is kind of a sequel scene to homer with balder and scully in the bar too i gotta say this episode also reminds me of another one he co-wrote which is the sherry bobbins one where it's a stranger who comes to the house and kind of investigates how terrible everyone is who also denies that they're a magical stranger too yes but she actually is yeah you know they don't make delroy lindo sing that's the one a little bit a little bit oh actually they do make him sing you're right it's good he didn't sing more it's fun it's uh but yes i actually

again if you if you view this as how al jean views what they've done to the characters this scene of homer i think really sums up where homer is at after the skull years okay gabriel this is a bar it's where i go to drink alcohol which is the mortal equivalent of your ambrosia. Homer, I am not an angel. Well, not with that temper. Look, the thing about my family is there's five of us. Marge, Bart, girl Bart, the one who doesn't talk and the fat guy. Well, I loathe him.

So Gabriel watched Homer get blackout drunk. And then as Homer accounts that he can't remember the names of any kid that isn't named Bart, Homer then reveals that the person he hates most is himself who is the worst person in the family which yeah again the gabriel's diagnosis should just be you're an alcoholic destroying your family you need to stop drinking and then we can fix other things first after that homer but yes instead he's got an arts and crafts project the uh the characters move to a very beautiful drawing of a park, which Homer thinks is heaven. And then he slowly gives out his diagnosis. Bart just wants attention, including put on a beard of bees. They chose him.

I love it. It's like, cut that out. Linda screaming, cut that out. It's funny. Marge, you medicate your family with food. Bart, you'll do anything for attention. Cut that out! They chose me.

Homer, your problem is quite simple. You're a drunken, childish buffoon. Which is society's fault because... It's your fault, Homer. But I've got an exercise that will help all of you break out of the roles you're stuck in. Who feels like lunch? Me! Me too! Good. I hung it on the top of that tree. But how are we supposed to get it? You'll just have to cooperate. Cooperate? Well, this is one family that doesn't swing that way. Are you sure? I made roast beef sandwiches, one falafel. Thank you. And plenty of beer.

Give me that beer! He says, he actually doesn't have a note for Lisa. I think he just agrees with her. But he tells Marge that she, you know, medicates the family with food. And then his thing of Homer, like, you're a drunken childish buffoon, which is society's fault because it's your fault, Homer. Just boom. Just, Homer. Just boom. Yeah. He gives them a mission to get their lunch out of a backpack,

which has beer in it, too. And I have to say, when Homer grabs him violently and then runs over a tree, again, it's like, okay, arrest this man or commit him. Send him to rehab. Yes. This is your problem right here get the fbi involved at this point honestly i just to make sure this person is really put away also i i have to question like this guy's an alcoholic so what i'm going to do is i'm going to trap him with the promise of beer

the the through line doesn't make total sense to me although i i was what what is this i mean i guess we're gonna get to the joke but like what have we ever have they laid down this alternate type of beer this non-duff beer that they talk about here so that's beer is real it's real yeah it's a midwestern beer i don't think i've seen it since i left ohio and it wasn't even that common but it was one of those uh breweries that was like around in the days of paps you know one of those ancient german breweries that got bought a million times i think like miller owns them or something like that or anheuser-busch but it's a real beer known for being cheap i guess so bad homer won't drink it oh i mean i guess that's what i mean like yeah something had to die so extra gold and strows could really rise up that makes sense yeah it's

one it's one of those beers like schlitz or straw but just like these weird names that's like your grandpa drank or something they all taste like tortilla chips it's all yeah if you're going to a party and want to be cheap you're like guys i brought a 12 pack but it's this it's schlitz yeah now i yeah i've uh until researching this time i'd always just thought it was like homer missaying paps because when i think like shitty beer i think paps blue rivet paps is the king of shitty beer i'll take it back i you know if you if you had in front of me a paps or a ticate i'd say give me that ticate that's what maybe two yeah but but so uh he yes homer even merely runs over gabriel then knocks over the tree which nearly

crushes gabriel which then pulls him down into a ravine and gabriel is very nice about this like no i'm okay which is like wait no you're not okay like you're it's a ravine full of wolves and cougars who have teamed up i love that yes once again the simpsons have found themselves versus a ravine it's always they always get stuck with these ravines uh i also love when the simpsons get in a huddle together homer in true jerk ass form is just like his plan is we're going to abandon him here and he dies and we never talk about it again as a family family he wanted it that way he makes lisa stage whisper yeah i also love that lisa's like we got to break our old patterns meaning that homer

has done this before of like well just leave the person to die we'll we'll be good just never talk about it i mean those kids have definitely had to bury a lot of things at this point 13 seasons in they're already after the girls yeah the drawing of the cougars and wolves huddled together is very funny too i like that which uh and and also marge tripping and injuring her driving ankle like what a silly excuse for bart to drive the car also marge is standing in the very next shot like you know it's not a standing ankle oh sure okay or a running so they pull them out though the roast beef sandwiches fall out and as is the falafel sandwich which gets eaten by them and homer says the roast beef is making them stronger and the falafel is making them angrier because of course vegan food

is bad and you wouldn't want to eat it and it tastes bad that's that's the classic joke falafel is disgusting of course everybody knows this it's not a delicious treat that everybody likes. It's terrible. And that area comes from, isn't it a little iffy? Yes. Yeah, exactly. It is indeed. You know, now Disneyland sells falafel. They put it in stuff.

Is that because it was like in an Avengers movie? Yes. Okay. I thought so. Yes. Yeah. You know, shawarma, as a joke, it became a food in Disneyland. Thanks to that one,

that ad lib by Robert Downey jr. As so many years ago, famous, uh, shawarma and a falafel from California. Yes. Yeah. Don't look too much farther into that California.

Uh, but yes, Homer refuses to throw out the beer until he realizes it's blats uh which they even make sure to show you the logo right up front just to be like yes we're making fun of this real logo here it is this sucks so uh so they save his life and again gabriel very you know forgiving he actually you would think nearly killing him would count as a fail but he actually gives them a pass on it uh it is a great joke that they're almost killed by the wolves and cougars but when hoper sees that they enjoy beer he goes

hey they're all right yes that's a great line it's like he becomes don rickles there yeah hey they're all right yeah uh so it seems like everything is fine as they drive home. We are family! Our bitter fights are now history! We are family! Wolves and cougars ate our roast beef! Well, I think you all did great. You broke out of your normal roles to accomplish something as a family.

I really earned my wings. I knew it! No, I mean this CD. The Best of Wings. Band on the run. You know, we've been through some 280 adventures together, but our bond has never been stronger. Yep, our family is as functional as all get out.

Could this be the end of our series? Of events? Can I help you? Yeah, I'm looking for Homer Simpson. Oh, it's the woman I married in Vegas. Homer, you're a bad man, and your seed should be wiped from the earth. No offense, children.

Well, you can really tell he's recording in there in that clip, actually. Yeah, yeah. Add some bite to it. I love that Gabriel physically leaves the episode. Like, he will not return. He's done with them. This is actually episode uh 276 yes yeah and as of this recording uh 728 just aired whoo yeah don't tell me things

like that bob i really have been losing track and i was happy to have lost track i that is the sucky thing about watching episodes like this and uh lisa has a line like you know could this be the end of the series i'm like please oh please please it's an interesting joke for lg to make in his first episode back a showrunner just like reflecting on like this is how long this has been going on yep yeah uh i feel like they intentionally had her say some 280 because she knew like the fans at home no this is 276 not 280 i guess uh or the super fans but i i suppose it fits but man they paid for a wing song just to get that silly joke they actually just paid for band on the run that couldn't have been cheap yeah no i didn't think so but vegas wives have returned which again

this is gene dealing with something he didn't like from the sculliers which is just that homer and ned married two floozies in vegas as homer called them and left them there and then they went like well we're gonna get with these other guys they basically thought they were gonna marry zigfried and roy which you know wasn't gonna go too far too far but I just I have to point out right up front here guys they were cocktail waitresses in their first episode they were not sex workers they were not I mean and they weren't written this trashy like they were not they're not under I mean they make jokes about their like weight and stuff and obviously cocktail waitresses in Vegas they they are going to be a little judgy of them as as trashy but they're not sex workers or or whores or as they would have

said back then like i don't like that joke i gotta say i don't like that no i think they're i mean in the original episode they're much more confident they're like self-assured they know they know who they are that's the character you get the sense of when they're introduced at least and in here i mean what i don't know what the thought process is behind like oh there was some random storyline from the simpsons which i imagine there is like several dozen hundreds i mean but like why was this the one that stuck out to him that like i need this to be rectified yeah i don't get it it's so evocative of where humor was at this point uh it's an ugly time for all of us but this is just evocative of the gross out sexist slut-shaming humor that was very very popular in the early 2000s very much so yes yeah it's uh it's it's it's sucky and i feel like they're it's it's shocking that this episode is actually meaner towards women than the original Vegas one was, Viva Ned Flanders, which was in the supposedly dirtier Scully years.

Like, Homer's a bigger asshole in that episode, but they're meaner to the women in this episode. Absolutely, they are. 100%. Yeah. episode i absolutely they are 100 yeah i i think too they wanted to show i think it was important for gene to bring them back so they show that homer did not physically cheat on marge like he even kissed ned at the nuptials no mouth whoopee although if you go back to the original uh wedding tape from that episode the wives kissed them they hey they didn't reuse they didn't reuse the same footage they made new footage in which

ned and homer kiss each other so it retcons it to he didn't kiss her even though they did yeah they did commit mouth whoopee yeah i don't like yeah no i mean this uh yeah and also like they're just written as like straight up gold diggers as as amber and Ginger move into their respective houses. You and Ned married a couple of floozies? Marge, I'm sorry, but it wasn't my fault. Liquors drunkened me. If I had known there were loose women in Las Vegas, I would

never have let you go. Look, I did marry her, but I abandoned her. Amber, tell her how I abandoned you. This is the worst thing you've ever done. Well, Ginger, sure is neat that you managed to hunt me down. Where's the bed? Oh, Lord, I know my new wife is a little more peppermint than you're used to, but I know you'd want me to honor my sacred vows, i will hey stud where do you keep

your wet ones i need a shower oh we've got a real shower upstairs upstairs i hit the jackpot you know if i lived in a two-story house i feel i hit the jackpot too you know yeah these uh these uppity comedy writers and their two stories look having just moved into one i could tell you it's a dream it's it's really something else man jealous and i had extra cardio during the day too oh yeah oh yes there's one secret deleted scene on the dvd actually where when margit monish is about going to vegas amber says yeah you abandoned me but this ring drew me back to him and she's like showing off a fancy engagement ring except what marge looked at as she says

that's 24 karat gold dink and there's a heart-shaped diamond yellow in the center of it so it's a good joke about fake diamonds i i like that. Yeah, I would have referred that to a lot of the jokes that are in this, honestly. Me too. Me too. And Ginger is so much trashier than before. I wish, though, she had stayed. I at least think they identified that they have something to go with of the now mod-free widow Ned having a new wife that he has to be like, well, I do have one wife now, so

I may as well just keep her here and then make it see if i can make it work i just feel kind of bad for these women and they're like incredibly desperate lives they live that's uh indicated in all the jokes about them yes yeah they're just like no i'm gonna be a squatter in this house now i have nowhere else to go this is better than anything else going on in my life yeah they drove all the way from fucking nevada to to to on a long shot that they'd be able to make this work that's really bleak uh and so uh this is when homer uh tries to talk more with marge we've said it before but this is a real era of blank a and homer comes in the room saying, sitting on the bed, eh?

But Homer makes a very Clinton-era joke about Mouth Whoopie to let you know that he did not have sex. He did not have sexual relations with this woman. But Homer thinks he's got a fix. Sitting on the bed, eh? Get out, Homer. Look, I married her, but that is as far as we went. We never ever made whoopee.

Or even mouth whoopee. I don't know if I can ever forgive you. Please go away. Fair enough. But I'm going to come back with the greatest gift a husband can give his wife. An annulment from his secret wife. Mr. Simpson, under Nevada law, bigamy, or Mormon hold'em,

is perfectly legal. Both marriages stand. But I only love Marge. I hereby order you to take care of both of your wives. Bailiff, ring him. Oh. That's Constance Haar

making a second appearance this season i think they really i think they thought saw her as their new lionel hutz i think yeah uh this episode loves women uh double marriage is like a double jail sentence yes yes yep though also bigamy has not been legal in nevada for a very long time ever since america it uh outlawed in pretty much every state except utah and then utah after that too uh bigamy is not legal like so that's just them being silly they're like you know what bigamy is legal in nevada so your marriage stands it's like what that's not that's not how that works i i like that it's constant it's just going like ah fuck you homer like you're i'm gonna send you to more marriage this is i'm just in free fall at this point i'm like where is this episode

going what is happening just please find me an out like i i i like i like once it switches from the delroy lindo to the the old las vegas wives i'm just okay you guys are just going with whatever like whatever's going and i at least hope the the jokes are good which they mostly are not except for all the cigarette jokes are pretty funny i will say i like jokes about smoking those those are funny but i mean that you know patty and selma are just as good for that kind of gag i think yeah it's true but cigarette aficionado the magazine definitely gave me a big chuckle on this one that's true yeah because they're gross smoky women and disgusting and uh yeah but uh but yes i i also love homer saying you know ellie's trying to hide behind

the census when march kicks him out we'll cause a miscount miscount and then a very silly joke about uh homer getting bitten in the ass by a chipmunk uh but uh actually my favorite joke in the episode is uh is this very silly one about uh the marge's delivery at the end of the scene makes me chuckle all the things to ever come back and bite me in the ass this is the worst please just leave me alone now now mama's gonna make you a snack oh yeah that's good oh don't stop oh yeah faster faster faster faster oh you do that like a pro oh no she's making him a sandwich use both hands i noticed that julie did say sandwich yes yeah as well that's great but just there's to do such a corny funny joke about like oh this sounds like sex joke but the marge knows exactly what it is but it's that is what she hates about it that it

actually she knows it's betrayal of making sandwiches which she loves to do for homie instead that that's just so good i also think use use both hands is a fantastic stinger like just beautiful i don't wouldn't you use both hands to make a sandwich i mean yeah maybe he wants her to wield the knife like a sword which is kind of yeah and the two-hander method on that sounds pretty it's pretty spicy to me i like that maybe you can get it uh meanwhile we cut back to uh the other disgusting woman with her cake dog makeup how pigishly painted harlot yeah i mean it's like yeah she people fall asleep with makeup on give her a fucking break man but i i do love how uh when she says when she drinks the coffee and asks him to irish it up

irish is a swear word in their house like that's a good gag but shall we and then they flushed her sin sticks to hell smokers are jokers smokers are jokers that's it it's it's a good joke about what a cult-like atmosphere they live in at least and uh why why uh honestly ginger's problem is she's going through detox in this moment here this is not the first woman Ned has scared away from her house post-Mod death. Yeah, it's true. This house post-Mod death. But this time the kids are helping him with it. But you know what?

He's also very supportive of her detox. They're going to hold her hair back when she vomits. He wants her to get clean, but they're going to help. They're very excited. Then also a very gross joke about the... I guess it's like, oh oh this woman has multiple wigs what a gross woman disgusting but uh uh but yeah i i like that bart turns down counting cards he's like i got my own system i need uh i i mean this is not a great episode it's got some funny jokes in

it though uh because it's all it is all downhill like chris said it's all free fall from here but cutting away to mose to make the incredibly corny two knives joke yes yes i gotta tell you it's pretty terrific i yeah i got i got it here it's it i do love this joke how we use electricity can be smarter cleaner and greener at electric Ireland, we can help guide you there. You see, our new Net Zero Hub has all you need to know about smart meter plans, EV tariffs, solar panels, and much more. Making your usage clearer, your trips greener, your home cozier, and your world brighter. Find our Net Zero Hub at electricireland.ie. Doesn't it bother you that you're breaking up our family?

You know, I bet you and me could be friends. I could show you how to put on makeup. I'm eight years old. You could look seven. And I could teach you to count cards. Eh, I already got a system. Geez, Homer, I thought someone with two wives would be happy. No, you're thinking of someone with two knives.

I got to tell you, this is pretty terrific. Yeah. Yeah. The way he has the knives, he looks at them like, yeah. He loves it. It's good to see Mo happy. He's found something to brighten up his day. Dual wielding knives.

It just makes him feel great yeah certainly is a much better one than the i i really had a problem with the britney beers line i was like what hey that's lazy as shit but also are you taking a dig at britney spears like at this time that seems a little weird i chalked it up to marge being a bad joke writer and that sure like has the but yeah it could also just be a mean joke at the expense of Britney Spears. It could be. Yeah. There certainly were many back then.

She had been a guest on the show, and they should have been nicer to a former guest. Yeah. Also, Amber, we see Amber asleep in the treehouse, very uncomfortably, her head sticking out of the window or with the doorway with her cigarette in her mouth falling asleep smoking uh that treehouse grows in size to the point where like two adults could sit inside comfortably oh yeah you know you're right the staging is always so weird it's a magical treehouse yeah are we supposed this is some sort of magic treehouse and homer then gets himself literally in the doghouse but only

about a two-thirds of the way a third of the way i'd say this is what like charms marge the fact that he got a dog stuck on his head but he remained calm yeah it's uh just smiles like oh homer oh i got how can i say no to that guy but i do love home another good line and this is the sweet couple of seconds before i remember why i'm sleeping on the lawn like that's that's a good gag but uh but marge decides she's gonna disport uh discuss the bigamy with homer and honestly you know marge is right in the next scene when she's like they'd be better off without homer i think so though marge obviously would have to get a job like it's a one-income house But yeah, as the plan unfolds. So do you think this would have played better if you didn't know the family was in on it?

Like their little thumbs up to each other when they leave makes it clear to the audience like, no, Homer and Marge aren't broken up. This is all part of the plan. So it kind of deflates the whole like misdirect of, oh, Homer and Amber are definitely together, you know? Like, I think you're definitely going with, it's better if it's just Homer because then maybe I can see the joke being like, Marge finds out at the very end is like, now this is the worst thing you've ever done and make it a three.

And like that the joke actually builds to that thing. But like the fact that there are like, you just have made this family like you you wanted it to refocus on the family you refocused on them being demented as shit like yeah i i don't think i would have bought the fact that homer oh homer's living march finally but i don't i don't like the entire family's in on this felony they're committing yeah yeah now okay as a parody i do everything after this is difficult to talk about now it's certainly problematic i want to say that i do see this as the simpsons doing a

classic parody of bad sitcom writing and i get their intent because in a bad sitcom where it'd be like on a full house they'd be like all right stage one or two of our wacky madcap plan and as amber will say later their wacky madcap plan was get a woman blackout drunk there was no more to that plan than that uh other than get her drunk but they're treating it like it is a silly wacky plan from a sitcom i mean the plan involves more than that okay yes yeah i guess i guess uh trigger warning about this discussion we're not going to get too uh serious but when i was re-watching this, it dawned on me what this joke was.

Everything was leading to this one joke, and it's just like, oh, this is a rape joke. And they built in safeguards because they were aware of it, but ultimately, it is getting a woman blackout drunk and getting her to have sex with someone against her consent. And we weren't talking about consent in 2002,

but they realized what they were doing and they tried to make it uh tv friendly but at the end of the day this is a rotten joke in 2022 yeah you feel really bad for this woman yeah yeah in in 2002 there uh i sadly there were laws across the country i think there still are in some states where like that you could give consent while drunk which is not like that is insane like you know that's i i it's unbelievable that was ever a law uh but this episode seems to operate under that idea that amber can consent to having sex with abe and also they the gray area they want to shove it into is that abe didn't he she wanted to have sex more than he did and then

so it's almost like abe was abused here in that he didn't but when he says i can't that doesn't that's not yeah yeah it just it feels like they're they're building in these safeguards because they know the kind of joke they're making and then uh when we get to the wedding video she says uh you know you pay for the whole hour which implies that she's a sex worker on top of that but uh you know i i was thinking about it was like well no consent went out the window when you got her blackout drunk it doesn't matter what you paid for or whatever she agreed to while she was uh blackout drunk this is a rape joke and it's a gross way to end this episode and even if she had done that to homer and ned before with getting them drunk blackout drunk and doing something you know that's not that that's not good revenge you

can't do it as revenge either it's don't know the legal definition of this, but if you go back to the episode of Eva Ned Flanders, they were all drunk during the wedding. I don't know what that implies as to who the responsible party is, but in this, clearly, she was the one that was being made.

Liquors drunken her, and she was taken advantage of. Not to get too serious again. Sorry, Chris. We've been talking all day. It should be talked about i mean this was a a classic joke formula for so long for decades before i mean i remember back in uh i mean this is flipping the genders a little bit but uh there's this uh keifer sutherland dennis hopper movie called flashback and the whole joke of the

beginning of it is dennis hopper gets keifer sutherland drunk as hell and a sex worker drunk as hell and and gets them to have sex together so that he can escape and he's uh on the run and like this was the beginning of a movie where they're like oh yeah like just it's yeah a little rape just to get the movie going just just start the stuff just a little teaser to get going and i'm like that that's all really weird this is all incredibly off-putting and like you could have literally just it would have been bad enough if you had just gotten her drunk and put her on a bus back to nevada that would have been it probably wouldn't have been funny and it

probably you know it would have been bad enough but like that they take it this far i'm just looking at it like oh man yeah definitely end this now as soon as don't you don't have to shove in the senility joke just get the fuck out of here well i mean like this is no more dirty and problematic than stuff that happened in say the american pie films for instance yeah yeah like it was a dirty gross bad time it was bad enough like i wish they would have drew the line at the marriage not the uh term in the oval office uh gag i wish i didn't actually have sex with her yeah i wish they could trick her into marrying abe but to make her have sex with him like it's just to make gross like you fucked a grandpa jokes like which also is such a having sex with a senior citizen that was also just such a like of its time nightly 90s joke and this is where the ru486 joke is too like the she wakes up and she takes the tylenol and the ru486 and

she takes like seven of them uh i mean it's just like fucking gross it's just gross especially uh like again 20 uh years later we're talking about reproductive rights and the show saying they look at this slut and her abortion pills yes yeah uh it's a great it's gross it's gross it's just like i i it's it's a bad taste in your mouth to see this joke now especially as we're talking about how like you know what should be easy and free to get contraceptive medication in america about to be outlawed at least in some states but potentially uh that to see a joke from 20 years ago about like this is just for gross disgusting women who are have too much sex like who are irresponsible just like it's yuck oh yeah it's also just like if

aljean wanted to move away from the dirty stuff that happened the season before this this is the opposite of that like this is this is dark as anything in there but yes let's hear let's hear Aspirin. Are you 46? Morning, love muffin. Who are you? I'm your new husband. And that was a wedding night I'll never forget. Oh, no, we didn't. Well, we almost didn't. But you wouldn't take I can't for an answer.

Want to give Honest Abe another term in the Oval Office? No! Oh, thank God. for an answer want to give honest abe another term in the oval office no oh thank god so i am shocked that they they today on the commentary the one few times they can actually comment on the episode of that because delroy's off the call yes yeah they they mentioned that originally the line was abe train do you want to hop on the abe train which the censor thought was too dirty so then they said it was too dirty they said give abe another chance at the oval office which some which they credit to writer tom martin and they couldn't believe they got away with it like i come on the oval office like it's yeah that's so lewd yeah yeah i mean the last thing i'll say about the this kind of joke is it's it's so bizarre to me that uh like it was al jean and people were like yeah he's taking the

show back to its roots back really grounding it and this episode results with the family conspiring to have a woman sexually assaulted yeah yeah and that's and then people were like hooray the show's back yes it's still got that zing i didn't know why we were reacting like that uh chris sorry no it's it's it's would genuinely be like it i would understand homer going to vegas and cheating on his wife as something that happens in a real marriage and has to be dealt with whereas compared to this where they're like it would be one thing if that was the end of it right like if that if the end of the story was like yes i you know i fooled around with her i got married in vegas and something happened with another woman but the fact that it has to end in this

like spectacularly disgusting way like you just double down on the worst instincts of anything that came before this i i think this ending would work better if amber just like screamed in terror was like you're all monsters it just got out of there like uh but but also it's shaky legal ground that during her wedding vows to abe that are filmed she renounces all other husbands thus making homer no longer officially her uh her husband anymore. I'm sure that checks out. Yeah, that works. Yeah, but yeah, so they well, here's the ending. Let's just play it. Boy, this third

act is rough, guys. I'm not lying. Our plan worked perfectly. And we carried it out as a family. What plan? You got me drunk. Yeah, but this time you woke up with more than a hangover. You're married to me. Me!

I can't take it. You're too goody-goody. Oh, that's not you talking. That's the honey mustard dressing. Come on, Ginger. Let's go back to Vegas. Yeah. I'm sure there's poker games we can be one in. I'm so proud of us. When we stick together, we can do anything. Oh, I lost another wife. I'm so sorry,

Grandpa. Well, it hurts now, but the senility will take care of that. There she goes. You know know i have a son about your age oh i love that you know like grandpa i wish you could all forget about that yes boy you know it was extra i have to say i laughed harder after all the stuff we just discussed than having mart say i'm so proud of us it's even worse that lisa is part of this yeah lisa yeah boy she should walk off or just like just be in the corner or something like i'm going home or something yeah i had no part of this

people like that's what she should say yeah i you know what i i had given all of this cringe to the panda love scene and that seems no good but boy this is worse this is a worse low for the family and the show and what they do could this be the lowest low i think it might be i think so i think it is yeah criminal what a way to start yeah the criminal family committing a horrific crime against a woman who trusted them to man that panda was just doing its job it was not premeditated or anything it's a wild animal you can only like yeah you need to sue the zoo apparently but yeah it's boy the first two acts have some fun stuff in it even the two wives two knives things is fun but once the two vegas wives come in i get the gene had things he wanted to fix

and then with the vegas wives but this was not the approach to take with fixing the vegas wives like not even a little bit and making to make them much grosser disgusting women for a lot of like mean jokes about sex workers which again again, they're cocktail waitresses. It wasn't even their fucking job in their first appearances. And to then have it all end in gray, at best a gray area of sexual assault. I really don't like that. Well, they're going back to Nevada to be one in a poker game like that's not even that's not even a sex worker life that's just like yeah i'm worthless i'm here to be property

whatever like i'm not a character and these characters are so despised that one of them is killed off that's right yes i was just reading on the wiki i was like which one of these guys is dead which one of these ladies is dead it's amber who died at a theme park in front of a sign warning people not to stand up on the roller coaster uh she overdosed in front of that sign so a very dark ending for amber amber these these women in there and they're just their desperate lives i feel so bad for them yeah okay they snuck a john cassavetes movie into this show like amber's life is just like absolutely rock as hell and like you just see it in brief glimpses as the the from the tormentor point of view uh but you know what i do chuckle at honey mustard

dressing being a drug in ned's house that he views it as like uh you know that's too spicy honey mustard dressing but it's not the unflavored ice milk and oh even more tragic uh ginger did not attend amber's funeral oh come on man i feel like the current animators would draw her in there they would remember to do that they put in they put in lots of good breath i just saw a bang bang bart reference used correctly of a homer a Bart's future stripper persona. But yeah, I mean, this episode is also, as we're talking about this, you just forget about Gabriel or all the environmental stuff. It's so far away. This is such a weird-ass episode.

It's an inauspicious beginning to Al Jean's first season back. There are better episodes after this, folks. Don't worry this is just a very very low point and unfortunate choices that were rooted in the context of where humor was at the time so absolutely bad year bad episode exactly uh but yeah i guess i have nothing more to say yeah i guess that's it yeah bad year bad episode nothing good can come out of the year 2002 uh nothing at all i'm sorry if you were born then but you're wrong you're a demon child but Chris thanks for being on the show

you're on We Hate Movies of course you've got all kinds of stuff happening We Hate Movies you've got the Patreon with the Melro 210 show I talked about also Gleep Glossary I assume you'll be covering the whatever Star Wars show comes out Henry would know about this Obi-Wan we'll be covering the whatever Star Wars show comes out. Henry would know about this.

Obi-Wan. There you go. Obi-Wan. We'll be doing that very soon. Yes. God damn. Can you give us a preview of what's happening in the month of June when this podcast goes live? Oh, well, in June, I mean, we're going to be I think we'll be back.

We're going to have another once in a lifetime episode. I'm not sure if we're going to do another one of our stocked by our doctors but uh we might we might have to go back for thirds um and then we're going to be doing uh we love movies we haven't actually decided we're we like we've been doing more of like we want to decide closer to the uh actual release date to do what we love movies but we have a big one planned i will say and then of course as uh bob said we will be doing another melro 210 a lot of summer i mean it's gonna be the summer blockbuster uh extravaganza uh on the show during the summer just on our live feed on itunes and wherever you get your podcasts uh for our weekly episodes that are free

but then yeah patreon.com slash we hate movies uh the boys have been on uh the show uh for the simpsons movie which is funny you mentioned that the beginning of this episode did really feel like a rough draft of where they were going to start that movie it is funny that it ended up like that but yeah uh thanks for having me on again guys this is always a lot of fun no it's awesome to have you on thank you so much chris thanks again to chris cavend for being on the show please check out we hate movies we love everything they do over there ask for us if you want to check out more of what we do and get all these episodes one week at a time and ad free please head on over to patreon.com slash talking simpsons head on over there for five bucks a month you get just that but also access to everything behind the five dollar paywall that includes over 100 miniseries episodes they're full length about

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three six whole hours on that one and a giant back catalog i would say over 260 hours of us covering animated feature films upcoming at this month we're going to be doing the little mermaid and previous ones have included south park bigger longer and uncut Kiki's Delivery Service, Akira, and A Goofy Movie. Check it all out at patreon.com slash TalkingSimpsons. And as for me, I've been one of your hosts, Bob Mackie. You can find me on Twitter as Bob Servo. And my other podcast is Retro Knots. That's a classic gaming podcast all about old video games. Find out more about that wherever you find podcasts or go to patreon.com slash Retro Knots

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Now there's a killing machine.