Talking Simpsons - Talking Simpsons - Burns Baby Burns With Merritt K

Episode Date: August 8, 2018

This week we welcome Merritt K of StayMean.co podcasts to Cider Town as we dig into the Rodney Dangerfield-centric episode! Larry Burns is here to drink and party no matter how many upper-crust folks he offends. Can a phony kidnapping save the day? All that and too many grandmas in this week's podcast! This podcast is brought to you by VRV, the streaming network full of cartoons, anime and more. sign up for a free 30-day trial at VRV.co/WAC and help support Talking Simpsons! Support this podcast at Patreon.com/TalkingSimpsons!

I heartily endorse this event or product. I'm your host, hideout book author Bob Mackie, and this is our chronological exploration of The Simpsons, who is here with me today. I'm Henry Gilbert, and I love sucking down the cider. And who is on the line? I'm Merit Kaye, and I got too many grandmas. Who doesn't? And this episode today is Burns, Baby Burns. It doesn't take a nuclear scientist to pronounce foilage. Today's episode aired on November 17th, 1996. And as always, Henry will tell us what happened on this mythical day in real world history. Oh my God!

Oh boy, Bobby. A 2.5 million year old fossil of a human ancestor is found in Ethiopia. Everybody got up to slam down at Space Jam debuting number one in the theaters and Lara Croft goes on her first adventure as Tomb Raider hits the PlayStation and Saturn in North America. The first annual Space Jam. What a

blessed day. We finally got to see Toons dunking. That commercial finally turned into a full motion film. This was the week of toons and tombs yes but yeah tomb raider is still huge it's gone through some lows but now it's sort of at a high point since the 2013 reboot i mean nobody cared about that recent movie and no one shouldn't have cared about it but i think the games are still pretty good yeah you know that movie should

have starred daisy ridley and i feel like since they couldn't get here they should have just not done it yeah and i forget one of our friends saw it maybe it was gary i forget who it was but they uh the teaser the infinity gem teaser is laura sorry laura croft it's not laura croft everybody listen to me many british people correct laura laura's a real name and that's her name it's not la. Even the games get that wrong. But anyways, the teaser infinity gem scene in that Tomb Raider movie is her picking up the dual pistols. That is so lame. I can't wait to see that in the sequel.

She might shoot one of them. No, no. In the sequel, the teaser scene is her finding the bullets for the gun. She's got to build the gun over five movies, everybody. It's going to be fine. That's long-form storytelling. It is. But our special guest, Merit, can you tell us who you are? You do so much for the internet, and I think our listeners need to hear all about it.

Oh, well, the internet does so much for me, too, so I like to give back. Yeah, I'm a writer. I have a regular column for Mel Magazine, which is a men's magazine, and I write an advice column there. And I write, you know, here and there, wherever. And I have a long running podcast called Woodland Secrets, which is just kind of a talk show where I have all kinds of people on artists, writers, activists, and I did have well, I still do have but I have a podcast called dad feelings, which has now reached the end of its run. But you two were both on that a while ago when we talked about Homer Simpson. That's right. I think it was over a year ago now,

but it was a minute. Yeah, that was such a fun time. And I'm glad we could have you back on a very fatherly episode of The Simpsons as well. I really love your advice columns too. You did, I believe one was called Wash Your Dick, which was a very important article. I didn't know men needed to know that, but I guess I don't. You'd be surprised, apparently. Yeah. And also, animation-wise, you've been doing these pretty cool articles for VRV. I really liked your one on the history of Candle Jack as an internet meme.

Yeah. You shouldn't have said that. I'm going to go away now. I've been doing a weekly thing for Verve as well. And it's funny because I don't know that much about anime, but I will sometimes dive into a bit. I do the sort of recurring segment where I ask Twitter to choose an anime for me. And then I watch like three episodes of it.

And I'm like, wow, what was I? I was expecting a talking dog, but there was just a very hairy man in this show. So that's kind of fun. Can you name any of the anime you were forced to watch for this project? I haven't actually seen these articles. Yeah, so the first one was Sword Art Online.

Oh. Which is kind of a, if you die in the game, you die in real life. And all I knew about that one was a kind of unfortunate chapter that was cut out of the original novel by the author, which I don't want to get into here. Search chapter 13.5 if you're curious. And then I did Lupin the Third as well, which is really great. I've been watching

the most current season of that show and I love it. And then I most recently did Hunter Hunter. And all I knew about that show going in is that you don't pronounce the X. I was scolded in public for pronouncing the X about a month ago. So I know your pain. But yeah, let's get into the episode, everybody. I did want to know, like, Merit, like, what's your personal history with The Simpsons? Like, when were you a viewer of it? Like Like what was your first episode? God, my first episode is hard to recall. I do know that as a child, I think The Simpsons was off limits for a while. So I remember The Simpsons for a while was in the same category as wrestling and South Park. Definitely, you know, definitely South Park was off limits way, way into my,

my teen hood when I would stay up really late to watch it on Comedy Central. Yeah. You know, the earliest episode of The Simpsons I remember, and I was, you know, when I was looking up the episodes to watch this one, I realized this is the first ever episode of the show, which seems really strange to me. It's the one where it's the Christmas episode where Bart spends money on getting a tattoo or like gets a tattoo and then they have to spend all their money to get it lasered off. But in reruns, that was still the first one you saw? I think so. It's like the one that I most imprinted on, I think. We've had quite a few guests who weren't allowed to watch the show and as someone who grew up with A, permissive parents, but B, parents who worked way too much. I find that just a great injustice.

Well, definitely I did reach a point where, you know, it was on every Sunday night on Fox. And, you know, my dad, my sister and I would sit down and we would watch whatever else. We would watch like Undeclared, whatever other shows were airing at the time. And we would watch the simpsons so i would say from about 1996 to 2005 i think i was seeing it every week wow you know you're mentioning of uh wrestling not being allowed to that's another of my favorite dad feelings episodes is the vince mcmahon one of yours i want to tell listeners check that one out love that one. That dad can beat up your dad in every case. Yeah, legally and physically.

So I want to get into the episode, but first we have a new writer alert. A new writer alert. And guess what, friends? I should have a bell for that. We need some sort of theme. We'll come up with it. There'll be several new writers in the future. It should be the Harvard anthem.

What did you think? In this case, this is... Actually, no. Yeah, he's not a Harvard Lampoon guy. He went to Brown. Not Brown. Not Brown. Not Brown. So I think all of the Brown bashing in the show is because of Ian Maxton Graham being the one.

Oh, interesting. He was college educated, but at the wrong Ivy League college. So tsk, tsk on Ian Maxton Graham. He's also the very tall man that we see in 22 short films about Springfield. What? He does not sound, yeah. He's modeled after Ian Maxton Graham. Ian Maxton Graham does not sound like Tippi Turtle.

He's more of a New Englander, but he is 6'8". Yes. Yeah. He worked on Saturday Night Live before this. He was friends. Lots of people in the comedy writing field know him. I recall on the Clerks animated series, they put an in-joke about Ian Maxton Graham in there

that makes no sense if you don't know who he is, which who does? You would have had to work with him, I guess. But he, along with a lot of other Simpsons writers, wrote for not necessarily the news, which was sort of HBO's weekend update-ish show in the 80s. So I believe Al Jean and Mike Reese, Conan O'Brien, Greg Daniels,

Ian. Is there anyone else I'm missing? There were so many Simpsons writers on that show. And also he worked for the quote-unquote worked for the zine Army Man with people like George Meyer, John Schwarzwalder. It's basically where a lot of the Simpsons writing talent was assembled at first. Sam Simon just like was a

subscriber and said, I want to hire those guys. Yes. And from Army Man, he went to SNL. The famous writer Jack Handy, you know him from Deep Thoughts and so many SNL sketches. He hired Ian to write for SNL from 92 to 95, and Ian is, I guess notoriously,

but no one really knows this, he's the creator of the famous Canteen Boy sketches, in which Alec Baldwin tries to seduce Adam Sandler, a Boy Scout. Who's playing an underage Boy Scout. Yes, yes. And there were, I believe, several of those unsavory sketches. It seemed funny 25 years ago.

Sure. And he also co-wrote, to some people, he also co-wrote the Hanukkah song. And I have to wonder if he makes any Hanukkah song bucks from that. He's just rich off of that. They made a Hanukkah song movie. There's really a movie? Oh, 12... Eight Crazy Nights. Yeah. I think he must have signed something to get the rights removed from him. So another

SNL story about him, believe me, there's a lot going on with Ian Maxton Graham. Ian Maxton Graham was described as a fervent anti-smoking zealot by some journalists who probably had a pro-smoking agenda. But while working in the writer's room at SNL, Norm MacDonald was a chain smoker and he refused to not smoke. And one day, Ian Maxton Graham either sprayed him with a squirt gun or a cup of water. The stories differ depending on who tells it. But the real truth of the story is Norm MacDonald punched him in the face. And Ian Maxton Graham almost left the show and almost sued Norm Macdonald. But that never happened, ultimately.

He had a case there. I mean, I guess he went first by spraying him with water. But still, like, throwing a punch, that could have seriously injured him. Apparently, he was fine after getting punched. But I had heard about that from the Jay Moore book. Jay Moore, the only interesting thing he ever did on the jay moore book yeah jay moore the only interesting thing he ever did on snl was write a book about his year on snl being unhappy and how he stole someone else's bit to write a sketch that aired it's a great book for a not a

great comedian i feel but uh don't beat me up jay moore but it's funny that norm mcdonald threw a punch at ian maxton graham because he he is a triathlet. He's a strapping huge man. I'd be afraid to go near him. That's true. Meanwhile, Norm Macdonald, he wrote himself as an easy to beat up guy in multiple things. So it's surprising he did that. I do want to get to the last thing about him, and that is he bristled against the Simpsons community thanks to a 1998 interview where he comes off as sort of the anti-Bill Oakley, Josh Weinstein, where Bill and Josh were huge fans of the show. They love the fan base. They want to do things to make the fans happy. Their shows are full of fan service and tributes to

lore of the show. But Ian didn't care. And I have a quote from the article. Max Stone Graham knows such carelessness drives, quote, the beetle-browed people on the internet, unquote, to distraction. And this is Ian Maxton Graham's quote after that. They seem to have no life except the Simpsons, he complains. They see everything as part of a vast plan, but boy, is there ever no vast plan. And this is the article speaking. The fans took particular acceptance to A Star Is Burns, in which Jay Sherman from The Critic goes to judge a film festival in Springfield.

And Ian says, I love that one, but they thought it broke reality or something. Go figure. That's why they're on the internet and we're writing the show. This was early. I love that. He's so snarky, but this was early in the days where writers were not used to getting direct feedback via the internet. This is a very new thing.

And this is a writer dealing with that for the first time publicly, for one of the first times publicly. I mean, you can see how that would piss off the very online simpsons fans of 1998 i know i hated him because of that yeah but uh though that's all i remembered from that article but then when i reread it it was also there's more stuff in there too he uh it's with a a woman who wrote it claudettaullivan, who she makes a point of asking him about how there are currently, at the time they were writing that, no women on staff on The Simpsons in 1998.

He has a very poorly aged defense of it back then. He said, quote, the dominant characters tend to be male. Bart and Homer occupy a lot of the real estate. And a lot of that humor is kind of guy's humor. He also says in quotes, we make awful scatological sexual jokes. It's not like we sit around the table with our dicks out, but having a woman in the room,

I think it changes the tenor. Boy, just say women are buzz kills, Guy. Come on. Don't live that as much, though. Yeah. Becoming a complex figure now. Ian Maxton Graham was hardly alone in saying that about writer's room back then. Pretty much that was the way many men thought of, like, no, you can't have a woman in the writer's room.

We can't tell gross jokes. It'll ruin comedy. I think even adult swim head honcho Mike Lazo said basically the same thing. Like five years ago. Yeah, and he's like, that's why we don't have women running shows or women in writers rooms because they they ruin all the fun yeah they're gonna be menstruating everywhere i know just a real disaster the cleanup alone is distracting uh i had forgotten those parts were of it in the interview too but the in in the abstract i do agree with the idea of like they shouldn't write the show for the geeks on the internet, which includes me.

It always has. But maybe don't purposely try to piss them off. Yeah, don't intentionally antagonize people probably. I mean, but he was right about me in 1998. I really had no life outside of The Simpsons. And that's true even today. But your beetle brows, you don't have beetle brows anymore. I got rid of my beetle brows.

Well, also, Ian Maxton Graham is the man who killed Maude Flanders. He wrote the Alone Again Natural Diddly episode, and I believe it was Scully who said it was Graham's idea. You know what? I got to go back to our interview to be sure that Scully said that. But it's such a heartless way they killed mon flanders and it's just so and you know it's graham that is the creditor writer of the episode because there's a joke that he has his name in bold giant typeface at the start of the episode okay yeah you're right oh boy so that'll be a three-hour episode when we

get to it it sure will be and uh ian has been on the show basically since then. I believe his last credited episode was 2014, but I see him as a consulting producer as late as 2017. So he could just be like the Mike Reese come in a day a week kind of guy. Yeah, and he still has credited scripts, but like with a co-writer, which is kind of an interesting situation there. I don't know. Is this an apprentice of his? Who knows? He's an easy to hate figure. I blame him.

I once blamed Mike Scully. I now blame him more for the downfall of the Simpsons, which is, you know, that's just being a predictable internet geek as well. But I still, still, it's still hard to let go of this anger. He and Max don't grab. But at least now he can afford a large automobile for his giant body. I got to say, if you hate him, just know that being that tall means he's in hell every day. I'm only 6'1", and everything is too short for me. So I can't imagine the nightmare of being 6'8 in this world. Oh, yeah.

I've heard of that with the band at Giant Bomb. He, who is also a very tall man, he says you can't meet anyone without them either gawking you and then asking how tall you are. It's just like, that's just all of the times you meet people. Yeah, I was staying with a friend in Japan. I believe he's 6'7 or 6'6, possibly taller than that.

But he told me when I showed up, like, you will not believe the amount of people that asked me about my height and things like that. And I witnessed one of those conversations. So one of the first things he learned to tell people was his shoe size in Japanese because they always want to know. But this episode also is the Rodney Dangerfield episode. Yeah.

Yes. I'm a child of the 80s. So Rodney Dangerfield was quite a, he was like a living cartoon character to me and then became a real cartoon character in Rover Dangerfield. I loved him. He was so funny. I know him best and then became a real cartoon character in Rover Teacher Field. I loved him. He was so funny. I know him best from Ladybugs. Oh, God. The classic movie.

But I believe, Merit, are you a Rodney fan? I am. I'm kind of glad that you asked me on for this episode because I feel like he's come up a lot on my show. And I'm not really sure why. I think earlier this year, I watched Caddyshack for the first time because growing up, that was a movie that my dad like wouldn't stop quoting. He just kept saying, oh, Snickers bar, like he would make that joke all the time. And yeah, Rodney Dangerfield is pretty big in that he just has kind of a completely distinct plot from anyone else in that movie. I had seen this episode before I was really familiar

with him. But you know, I've tried to kind of dive into his oeuvre. And I actually own Rappin' Rodney on record. Wow. Is there more than one song on the Rappin' Rodney album? I need to know. I haven't actually listened to it yet. My roommate bought it for me the other day. But I think the one side is rapping rodney and side two is like red rodney keeps rapping it's all the outtakes now when you said rapping rodney i can see the cover of rapping rodney in my head because i've seen it so many times it's beautiful yeah i'm kind of holding a boombox wearing these sort of gogglish glasses it's i think there's a bandana yeah that's that's amazing because rodney

rodney dangerfield got a late start in comedy like he was over 40 when he got his the really big break in comedy in like 1960 in the late 60s and so by the 80s he was a big deal still and he saw that i think somebody just told him like hey these raps are kind of like your one-liner it's like you could just set this to a rap it's a diss track but you're dissing yourself yes yeah actually why don't we listen to a little rap and rapping here dig in dr finney boombox that's another one no respect no respect i said i want to stop aging He gave me a gun I told him I got water underneath He gave me a sponge And raised his feet

What's the matter Rodney It ain't easy being me It's just Rapping Rodney Ain't rap too tight no no Rapping Rodney Get out of sight it's just Rapping Rodney

Make no mistake for just Rapping Rodney Make no mistake for old Rapping Rodney Can't get a break I love the incongruity between like Borscht Belt jokes about bad doctors and then 80s rap. It makes for a great pairing. And I'd like to point out that the plot of this

music video is that he's on trial, he gets convicted, he goes to jail, gets the electric chair convicted. He goes to jail, gets the electric chair and then goes to heaven. And then I think St. Peter like doesn't let him in. Yes. He,

for some reason, there's a twin of him in heaven who walks in carrying a boom box, but it's, it's such a weird music video that it starts with his trial, then him going to jail and being read his last rights. And then, uh, actually being executed by

pat benatar oh boy sign me up frankly and then going to heaven which it's so it's so odd but i i like that too like so many we have too many comedians now i'm not gonna name names but who just want to be cool they're like oh i'm the cool i'm a cool guy. And Rodney Dangerfield, no matter how famous he got, he's like, I'm not a cool guy. I suck. I'm fat. I'm ugly. I'm unsuccessful. I don't have sex.

And towards the end of his life, he talked about depression a lot. And he has a lot of very insightful quotes about depression, if you want to go out there and look them up. And he loved marijuana as well. Yeah. And a couple of years before his death, I remember when it was medicinally legal in California was when he did this whole Rolling Stone interview about how he's just like, I've been a pothead forever. I am a super pothead. And now I can finally be an open advocate for it in this late in life. And it was sweet to find out. I don't know. Something about like grandpa pothead is fun. Yeah. And actually something that a lot of people might not know is that he actually like didn't

like being confused with the sort of character that he played. Like Rodney Dangerfield on stage is a very different person from who he was in his daily life. His wife said that he was like a really classy, sensitive guy. But people were often just like, say the line, Rodney. And yeah, so there's sort of that, that tension as well, kind of like that sadness in this kind of in Rodney's whole life. I've actually heard that about the late Don Rickles, too, where his entire act was just like shouting at people and being very angry. But offstage, he was just a shy, sensitive, soft-spoken man.

And this is such a great episode, all built around him. Like, this episode doesn't exist without Rodney Dangerfield. It's about what if a Rodney Dangerfield movie happened in Springfield? Only in the third act do they remember, oh, right, The Simpsons. They're on this show, too. Right. Get Homer in there and uh yeah i watched uh all his movies are the same movie and um actually when when matt graining

before the simpsons he was you know he was being shopped around hollywood as this young you know talented writer guy and he was hired to pitch rodney dangerfield movies and the first thing they told him was no fish out of water stories and he was like what are you talking about this is rodney dangerfield This is all he does. I remember back to school. I watched that many times when it was replaying on Comedy Central. I did watch Caddyshack far too young.

Again, I had also very permissive parents who, for example, when I bought a Robocop toy as a kid, I was like, I want to see the Robocop movie this is based on. They let me see it at like eight. Think you could fly, Henry? And same with Caddyshack. I thought that puppet looked so cool in the commercials for Caddyshack 2 that they rented Caddyshack 1 for me. And I just, I think all the sex and drug stuff just went straight over my head. I have to apologize. I meant to watch it

before this podcast recording. I didn't have time. but all I remember from those movies as a kid is the puppet. And I believe the puppet was like center stage in the second movie. No Rodney though. It was Jackie Mason, right? Yeah. Jackie Mason and then they replaced Ted Knight with Unsolved Mysteries guy Robert Stack.

Oh my god. That's incredible. And Bill Murray replaced Dan Aykroyd. It was really just, they got the beat. It was like, let's just interchange these parts. They were all the senior Spielbergos of their respective actors. I will say, if anyone hasn't seen that movie, if you're

around our age, like a child in the 80s or 90s, it's really bizarre because Bill Murray is in a completely different role than he usually is. He's playing a very bizarre character. He doesn't even look like himself because he's so young. And same with like Chevy Chase is like, you know, if you know him from Community or something, like it's wild to watch him in this movie. Oh, yeah. And they're like secondary roles in the

movie. They're not the type of star roles that they would insist on very soon after that movie came out. And every Bill Murray impression is an impression of his character in Caddyshack. In fact, when they replaced Lorenzo Music with Dave Coulier to voice Peter Venkman on The Real Ghostbusters, Dave Coulier just did his Bill Murray and Caddyshack impression, which was kind of off-putting. He's pretty close to his Caddyshack character in here, especially in the last scene, I will say. But that's getting ahead of ourselves. But I guess he is a late guest star. He passed away in 82 in 2004. So we do have to play the death.

Death stalks you at every turn. There it is, death. I got to tell you, the Bill Oakley, Josh Weinstein guest pool is a graveyard in 2018. They're all dead! They cast 70-year-old men in most cases. Yeah, 20 years ago. Only Kirk Douglas is still with us.

Inexplicably. Oh, and Donald Sutherland still. We're crossing the fingers on both those folks. Oh boy, you know what? I heard him on a podcast ad doing a commercial for Ice-T. And I imagine Hollis Hurlbutt doing the read. Wow, that's so sweet. His voice is still great. know what i heard him on a podcast uh ad doing a commercial for iced tea and i imagine hollis hurlbutt doing the doing the read yes his voice is still great or it was lemonade i forget what it was yeah and this episode aired five days before rodney's uh 75th birthday oh wow i wonder

if they timed it for that i don't know it's definitely time for the fall though oh yes what a perfect outing for a beautiful autumn day I feel sorry for everyone who's cooped up inside Watching the seventh game of the World Series Yeah They won't learn anything about apples today And the cider mill Operated continuously until 1941

When it's workers left to fight In the second world war When they returned The old girl was just as they'd left her, only now she was infested with thousands upon thousands of rats. Eww! What is this? Right, and if you listen real carefully,

you can still hear them gnawing away at the apples and splashing around in the toilets. And that concludes this portion of the tour. So I have to wonder, and this could just be me reaching, if this is the old mill mentioned in Bart's Inner Child. Let's go to the old mill, get some cider. Oh my gosh, you know, I wouldn't put it past Oakley and Weinstein to make this literally that old mill. We finally see the old mill, and I have lots of fond old mill memories growing up in the Midwest and going to the famed White House Fruit Farm in, I believe, Canfield,

Ohio, perhaps, and getting fresh cider from the Old Mill. I am so jealous of that. My family, the closest we did, we went to a peach farm one year and picked our own peaches on a vacation. But I love cider so much. Oh, God, I would have killed for that. Henry's a real cider guy.

Whenever we go out for drinks, it's always cider. But then can you tell me the difference between cider and juice? Oh, I think have killed for that. Henry's a real cider guy. Whenever we go out for drinks, it's always cider. Yes. So, but then can you tell me the difference between cider and juice? Oh, I think Flanders can. Well, if God didn't make little green apples, it's Homer Simpson. How long have you been here? 20 of the suckiest minutes of my life. Oh, sucking down the cider. Hey, word to the wise, season pass.

Pays for itself after the 16th visit. You know, most people don't know the difference between apple cider and apple juice, but I do. Now, here's a little trick to help you remember. If it's clear and yellow, you've got juice there, fella. If it's tangy and brown, you're in cider town. Now, there's two exceptions, and it gets kind of tricky here. You can see, but I'm leaving. Yellow, if you like seasoned apples. And of course, in Canada, the whole thing, but I'm leaving. Oh my, I better get you some cider. The soul of Homer's brain leaves his body.

Is that part of the episode? I have my own, but we can, yeah. Oh, that slide whistle. Sure. We can do it. That's the joke. I like that Flanders is very cider focused, and he's taking it upon himself to lecture Homer on a very obvious thing. Like, the juice and cider, the differences between them should be apparent. Like, immediately.

Oh, God. He's so happy to talk about cider. He has an annual pass that pays for itself after the 16th visit. The family all has apple hats. And if you listen to Homer's inner monologue, Flanders is still talking and there's still cider information

behind the dialogue if you want to listen to it about late season apples and things like that. And Homer's brain joke is already amazing, but the adding of the slide whistle as it leaves his brain

and then he just passes out, apparently just brain dead in catatonic. It's just, oh, God, I love it. I wish I had the power to just shut my brain off immediately, just collapse if I was in a bad situation. Well, you haven't had as many concussions as Homer. That's true. I avoid all sports and non-treadmill activities.

Also, just to go back a little bit, when Marge says, I'm glad we're doing this instead of seeing the last game of the World Series, I wonder if they intended this to air before. Some episodes got delayed because they started this season with Treehouse because the World Series preempted it. So I'm wondering if this was going to be on when the world series I wonder I wonder

The Simpsons will be right back Oh I don't get no rug out at all no esteem either oh i'm just kidding i get so much from all you wonderful listeners out there hello it's henry here welcoming you to the break and thanking you for listening to talking simpsons beyond the regard and esteem that our listeners give us they also support us at patreon.com slash talking simpsons a little bit of money there say five dollars goes to help me and bob keep on living and doing this full time but it's more than that not only does it let us go to la to record cool podcasts like we did with the everything's coming up simpsons hosts we also get to do our live shows

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and it helps you watch along with What a Cartoon. There's so many great shows that are available there, including Latter-day Simpsons, if you really want to watch those. Check out that 30-day free trial at tiny.cc slash tshulu. And the beautiful fall foliage does look great. Like the animation team really made this look,

the colors, the colors, children. I wanted to ask, so Lisa was getting upset with Marge's mispronunciations. Do we have any pet peeves? I try to not be an awful pedant because I used to be. I'm a pedant in recovery, and I never want to be a pedant again. But the one thing that gets me, and it is because of baggage, is the people that don't know how to say et cetera. They say et cetera. I see. I used to work at software etc no employee knew how to pronounce the name of the store no one knew how to write it on a check

no one knew what it meant number one it was a bad name for a store but it's just like it is etc it's right there people do we have any pet peeves i I feel like everyone gets one. Prescriptivism, whatever, we're done with it, but everyone gets one. And mine is peak and peak. So when people write sneak peak with an A, I fly into a murderous rage. No, that is an annoying one. I think I hate to use one from the episode, but I did have like nuclear did get to me. Even before the whole George W. Bush saying a thing, I was just like, come on, it's nuclear. And that's maybe because I was reading so many comic books where they talk about nuclear power and plus on this show.

This felt like the Harvard writers of the show attacking all the people they can't stand saying things like... Foilage. And Marge hits them all. It's foilage, library, Xscape. How many nuclear jokes are there on the show? Because the other one that I clearly remember is, I think it's the one where Homer takes Lisa to work and he's like, it's pronounced nuclear. Nuclear. Which one is that uh boy I I know he said

that but yeah I can't remember it either I I he Homer has said he's mispronounced it many times though now I'm just the only time I can remember being like specifically correctly pronounced was when Bart said in Kingside's Homer, he's a nuclear safety technician. That was, it was like extra nuclear. But poor, I feel, you know, now I'm not as much of a pedant anymore either. I feel, I just feel like for Marge, like who cares? Like just say words, how you gonna say them?

That it's pronounced nuclear is from Simpsontide. Ah, that's right. It's a nuclear sub. Ah, yes. Thank you. That's a nuclear sub. And then he, that's, thank you. That's another line that my dad would always repeat. Don't thank me. Thank Frankie-ack. Meanwhile, as they're on this trip, Burns is off in New Haven, Connecticut.

Honestly, Smithers, I don't know why Harvard even bothers to show up. They barely even won. Their cheating was even more rampant than last year, sir. Well, I say let Harvard have its football and academics. Yale will always be first in gentlemanly club life. Every friend I have

I made right here. Hello, Burnsy! It's your old roommate, Dink! I love all the Harvard bashing, and we learn now, I don't know if we knew this before, but Burns is a brutish Yale-y. This is the first time we found out Burns goes to Yale. We've had, we already knew that Sideshow Bob went to Yale.

Yeah, all the villains of the show. Yes, yeah. Which, because we've joked about it before, but many of the Simpsons writers went to Harvard. They wrote for the Harvard Lampoon. And Harvard and Yale are rivals in the Ivy Leagues. They battle over who is the fanciest. They do not acknowledge Brown.

And who has the most presidents. Who has the most evil secret societies. They battle over all those things. There's also the great line where Roger Myers fires his Harvard writer. He's like, yeah, the boorish sensibilities of a Yaley. Then he gets his name plate thrown at him. Yes. He is a witty rejoinder for you. This is them making their ultimate evil on The Simpsons also a Yaley, just so you know. I don't know. Dink seemed pretty cool.

Dink does seem pretty cool. That is based on a real book guy, which I only know because of the Simpsons joke. It was Stover at Yale, a 1912 novel that was all the rage in 1912. Apparently, F. Scott Fitzgerald said, oh, this was very inspiring to me as a writer. And it's just about being a young man at Yale who joins the football club. We'll get to it soon. All of the math checks out in this episode regarding Burns, but Dink has to be over 100. Yes. Outside that train window. Though if the book took place in 1912, then he would have been an alumni with Burns who graduated in 1914. Also, the Yale-Harvard football game has been going on since 1875. Wait, the same game? Yes, it's their yearly

game. No, I mean like it's been running continuously. Oh, never stop to tell. No, sorry. No, they have a football game every November, like the weekend before Thanksgiving. They play a football game and it's for bragging rights over who's is the best the score right now of total games one is 67 yale wins 58 uh sorry 59 harvard wins and eight ties i'm going to assume that in the very beginning of those games they did not wear helmets and they just wrapped their heads with cheesecloth or something like that yeah and and the the in the last 20 years though harvard has won the most and in fact six days after this episode airs harvard would win

the game against yale in the yearly game and they'd win 26 to 21 burns is acting like they won when they lost and that smithers just has to buy into like i agree they definitely cheated all the chief barely even won wait can we talk about the math though because i was trying to do this but like sometimes my brain doesn't work so mr burns says that his 25 year reunion at yale he talks about it and there's a sign that says class of 1939 correct correct i have all of the math right here if you want me to roll through it. Because by my math, if this takes place in the year that it aired, isn't he like 102? So in Homer the Smithers, he's defined as being 104 years old, and all the math checks out as of

1996. So 1939 was Burns's 25th Yale reunion, and if you assume he was 22 when he graduated from Yale, he'd be 47 at his 25th reunion in 1939, meaning he was born in 1892. So in 1996, he'd be 104. And 1996 is when Homer the Smithers takes place and when Burns' baby Burns takes place. And in Homer the Smithers, he said he punched him in his 104-year-old face. So wow, yeah, the math checks out. Yeah, and keep in mind, Burns will have to fight in World War II in his 50-year-old face. So, wow, yeah, the math checks out.

Yeah, and keep in mind, Burns will have to fight in World War II in his 50s later in the timeline. Yeah, actually, right after Larry is born, within two years of Larry's birth, he is drafted to serve in the front lines in Europe, which is pretty extreme. But yes, this is the attention to detail that Ian Maxton Graham probably didn't care

about, but Bill Oakley and Josh Weinstein love to care about where it's like, we define he's not, we define he's 104. Let's do all the math to make sure all of these years check out. And they do, but they don't anymore. Yeah.

At least at 96, this would now make him 128, 126. Yeah. I love that box car too. It, I dreamed of having a rich man's boxcar as a kid. Yes, it's so beautiful.

Like a train car attached to a train. It's like the dream, honestly. A hotel room that moves with you. A fancy suite. And all of the luxuries in there are from the 30s. There's no TV or radio, in fact. Burns has a very old rich man form of entertainment in which he pays a man to make a fool out of himself

for his entertainment. I love Burns just clapping as Smithers capers around. And that fancy brandy bottle. Yeah, a real decanter, if you will. But they're stopped by a couch on the tracks, which that's just such a funny, like, they could have done the easy thing of a cow on the tracks, but just a couch, which is so easily moved.

I love all the people just looking at it and scratching their chins. But that's when Rodney Dangerfield, or Larry, enters the story. Hey, customers, thank God. Papa needs a new pair of everything. Hey, how you doing? Welcome to Scenic Wainsport.

And remember your visit with a googly-eyed walnut. How about a googly-eyed rock? Some nice local squash candy. A stretched out Pepsi bottle. Come on. If this stuff is too nice for you, I've got some crap. There's a lot going on with this roadside attraction. Did anyone else have a twisted or stretched out Pepsi bottle at home?

These are all the things I saw on vacation and wanted at the souvenir shop. Like, it's Stucky's, but my dad wouldn't get us. Someone brought me back one of those Pepsi bottles, but I didn't know what to do with it. And it's actually still on the bar at my parents' house. So I can go back and visit anytime I want. But all of his little tchotchkes reminded me of, you'll love Oyster Lucy. Oyster Lucy. Just gluing eyes to things yeah i it's a very well observed roadside thing and waynesport is a made-up city for springfield it's not like in connecticut it's just one of their secondary cities apparently according to the wiki it only appeared in one other episode. It was where one of the teams Bart played against in peewee football.

Okay. In Bart Star. But otherwise, Waynesport should have become like their secondary Shelbyville. It needs a funnier name. Yeah, I was surprised. I actually looked it up because I was like, is this an homage to someone? But as far as I can tell, it's just a random name. And that seems like a really bizarre, wasted opportunity especially for the simpsons yeah maybe if it

had been funnier the name they'd have gone back to it more so when dangerfield comes on they talk about on the commentary too how they they just had so much fun writing dangerfield jokes for dangerfield to say and he would actually punch them up and make them better because he is the master of his own brand of comedy yeah it was and what josh weinstein was talking about how he had the annotated script that rodney dangerfield wrote his jokes on like that's that's i'm so jealous that that is a that is a real keepsake he tries to find out where they're going maybe it's in the same state but i i love a good gag about not letting you know the state that the Simpsons are in. But he decides to hit the road as a hitchhiker, and that's where he runs into the family. I can honestly say that was the most fun I've ever had. The mill, the history,

all that gorgeous foliage. I can't escape Lisa, our little walking library. Can't they get a pole for that sign? That's a hitchhiker, Homer. Ooh, let's pick him up. No, what if he's crazy? Then what if he's not? Then we'd look like idiots. We're not picking him up.

Oh, yes, we are. There's not enough room. Yes, there is. I just don't think it's a good idea. And I think it's the best idea I've ever had. We're picking up the weirdo and that's final. That's a great joke. Even though I see it coming, I just love the, when you finally see

they're in the driveway when the argument is resolved. Everybody could get out and go to bed, but Homer has to drive back. I really wanted everyone to be asleep in the car, but Homer, when they pick up Larry. That it would take him another three hours to drive back to there. And it's, and that poor

grandpa was also, who only appears when they need a joke. He's not really drawn in there otherwise. Is he even in the beginning? Oh, I think he might be in the beginning with that. He's walking home, yeah. I mean, he'd love to go to Cider Town as an old man. He needs to be there for the poop joke that shows up later.

It's very important. But also, Marge never talks like this ever again she never mispronounces anything she has a very specific accent and i like the line can't somebody find a pole for that side that's a great uh but so yes they head back and pick up old larry hey you folks are all right man it was rough getting a ride out there the only car that stopped was the hearse that thought I fell out. It was rough, I tell you. Careful of the apple pie on the seat.

Uh-oh! Grandpa, are you sitting on the pie? I sure hope so. I'm looking for this guy. Anybody know who he is? Yeah, sure, we know him. That's Mr. Burns. He tried to kill our puppies. He sexually harassed me. He stole my fiancé.

He made fun of my weight. Okay, so there's been a little friction. Know his address? Oh, this guy's got more bread than a prison meatloaf. He's rich, I tell you. I've never seen a place with a walk-in mailbox. Hey, who am I talking to? I think that might be my line of the show

Okay, I'll play it again That's the joke That's the only time I've heard a character point that sort of You know, self-riffing out I love him stepping outside of it like Hey, who am I talking to? There's a lot of great jokes in here About what it would be like if in real life

Rodney dangerfield was around like they never laugh at him he's obviously the character the character of larry is being a comedian saying jokes in front of him but they don't like laugh or go like you're so funny like homer will go like oh so lazy he just takes it literally yeah and i feel like homer should have a better example of what burns did to him instead of he made fun of my weight. Homer's been through so much more than that, including the whole Who Shot Mr. Burns saga. Yeah, he tried to have me killed. He could easily say that.

And Bart should have said, like, he adopted me. But there's honestly too many. This is a nice reverse of the joke of instead of Burns not remembering, it's about how everyone else remembers everything burns and it's also i i just love when they recognize like we've told this story so many times they're they're intimately familiar with mr burns at this point more bread than a prison meatloaf that's a nice that's a nice joke that's one of the ones i wrote down uh larry meets up with mr burns Burns. Yes? Yeah. Hi, my name is Larry. I'm here to see Mr. Burns.

Well, I hate to break it to you, Larry, but if Mr. Burns ever wants to see a stranger, he will observe him through a powerful telescope. It is what's going on. How dare you interrupt my line, Ricky. State your business. Well, uh, geez, I'm a little nervous here What I'm trying to say is I'm You what?

Selling light bulbs? Worried about the whales? Keen on Jesus? Out with it Well, Mr. Burns, I'm your son Oh, and I stepped on one of your peacocks You got a paper towel? Poor bird

Has anyone had a lime Ricky? No, but I want to try one after reading what the recipe was. It's an old-timey cocktail. There's like gin and sugar and, of course, limes and a few other things. It's a citrusy cocktail, but it's weird that Burns is drinking it out of a fast food cup. That's a great detail. With a straw. I don't know why.

Yeah, it's a fancy highball. It's just gin and seltzer and squeeze half a lime into that, add some sugar to taste. It's nice. Or it sounds nice. It sounds refreshing. I had some drinks, some celebratory drinks. I want to make a lime Ricky now, but I wonder, it's the perfect oldie time drink for Burns, though, because it was invented in 1870s. That's perfect. And I like the little details on Larry, like when he says, like, I'm pretty nervous here. Like the armpit sweat on him is really great there, too. Yeah, nice little details. It's a Jim Reardon episode, by the way. And also Jim Reardon shows up in the background of the scene with Burns and Smithers walking by the train they're about to board.

Because the real history of Jim Reardon is he hates flying. So if there's a train scene, someone will usually draw him into it. He's a large man with a beard. You can see him walk by in the scene. Trains are nice. I like trains. They're nice. They take forever to get anywhere. But that's because of the government. I love the design of Larry, too, that he basically had a body of Rodney Dangerfield and then put the top of the hair and the face of Mr. Burns in the middle of it. If you stare at it for too long and try to take it apart, it does seem odd.

They just stuck a Burns face on a larger male character. But if you don't stare at it like a magic eye painting or poster then you're fine and he also like walks like uh like mr burns at one point like he's got the hands out which is perfect they give him the little dinosaur hands yeah that he reverts to it it's just his natural walking style alongside burnsy and they have matching liver spots, but Larry did not lose his hair like Burns did. He's still got some hair. The way he lifts up his hair, it almost feels like a comb-over. I don't know. Burns does not have enough for a comb-over, though.

Yeah, but maybe he did 40 years ago. No way he doesn't in that flashback. That's right. He was a bald old man in 1939. Bald as a pluck chicken. So, yeah, we do't in that flashback. That's right. He was a bald old man in 1939. Bald as a plucked chicken. So, yeah, we do hear how Larry was born. But how's a guy like you wind up with a son like me? Larry, my lad, I've gone over this story in my mind a million times.

It was 1941. No, 39. My 25th Yale reunion. Who should appear but the unrequited love of my college years, Mimsy Bancroft. Of course, by then Mimsy had her share of wrinkles and a gray hair or two, but my adoring eyes saw past those minor imperfections to her 21-year-old daughter, Lily. I took Lily to the local cinematorium,

where our passions were inflamed by Clark Gable's reckless use of the word damn. We sneaked into the nearby Peabody Museum. There, under the smiling eyes of four stuffed Eskimos, we expressed our love physically, as was

the style of the time. How do you like that? I have been in a museum. Okay, so a few things. First of all, we expressed our love physically, as was the style at the time, is an incredible line, and

also just brings to mind Grandpa's incoherent rant from another episode where he talks about tying an onion to his belt as was the style at the time. Yes, yes. I do like Burns probably believes no one has sex anymore. It was a passing fad.

It was a new thing in 1939. Listening to this clip, I did realize probably for the first time, he says stuffed Eskimos. They weren't like mannequins. They were dead like Inuit people that were killed and stuffed and put on display. Oh my god, you're right. I did not realize that until

just listening to the clip. But also, it wasn't part of the clip, but I love how the fact that he ruined this 21-year-old woman's life is a footnote. She was sent away to a convent in the South Seas and never seen again. Also, the mimsy lily choke is very, very very good i saw past those flaws

ravages of time to her 21 year old daughter we uh we don't know he's being literal about looking past something until we see the pan over to the daughter it's it's a great joke and also what a scoundrel burns is that well that the the direction of it is so great, too, because you see Mimsy turn and start to walk towards him. So she's made eye contact with him. So he's also being incredibly rude to just look at Lily instead. And they were so turned on by Clark Gable. And it's such a great gag, too, that you think that he's – it's very mean, but so great that you think he's – that Larry's mother was this older woman he got with, which Mimsy is a great name of a Yale graduate from his same age as well. So I believe the remnants, so this story is the remnants of another story.

So they wanted to do a story for the show in which Burns and Abe fought in World War II and they had the same lover and there was an illegitimate child. That became both Raging Hellfish or Flying Hellfish and this episode. So they sort of broke the different ideas into different episodes. It's funny. Yeah, you know, it never hit me as a kid that so close together they had a Burns' History episode. Like these are like only in air order like six episodes apart. Yeah, something like that.

Yeah. And though it's also weird to think that Burns was ever virile in any sense of virility with Burns. It just doesn't make sense. I love the young Mr. Burns character design, though.

Like with the wavy hair. It's so good. It's great. And I guess his sperm was not lethargic as it would be in later years as he describes it.

Lethargic sperm. And the Peabody Museum thing, too, is that is actually the museum that's on the yale campus folks it's still there you can you can visit it and try to find the room where burns had sex and and i love the one-liner i have been in a museum yeah so then it gets shown around the place i love that he you're immediately seeing what the problem is going to be with his hugging of burns, like his kissing and kissing. And when he tells his life story,

which is nothing, he leaves out that wife and child, which obviously that's the joke. Yeah. It's, it's funny that they, he leaves them out. Uh,

there's a performance of you're curious. It's death of a salesman is, uh, what's happening there. That's the famous line. A man is not a piece of fruit. I really enjoy Larry. As much as he riffs on people, he's a nice guy, and I do like

him telling the people in the play, hey, you're all right. What does this play close and I say? That feels like an oldie, adult school, like Merkin era Burns joke, too, that his house is so gigantic. There's tons of people. There's people just putting out plays for no one who have been employed there for years i like thinking about

what all the plays that are taking place while burns isn't home like all of the different plays rotating through the playroom and he'll he'll occasionally pop in and watch part of one this is such another template thing for season eight it is a stranger enters the world of the simpsons and how do they react to it there's there's so many like this and this is like in this case it is homer gets along with him this is the the anti-grimes one right he doesn't get along with homer but uh he immediately befriends old larry here hey you're that hitchhiker what are you doing here learning a family family business. I'm Larry Burns, the boss's son. Relax. I don't want to work. I'm so lazy, I took lessons on a play of piano. Wow, that's really lazy. Lazy? You're not kidding. Well, I'm like a rug on Valium. I'm talking lazy. So lazy. And Larry and I have so

much in common, Marge, way more than you and me. If I could be stranded on an island with anyone, it would definitely be Larry. I think we've heard enough about Larry Burns for one evening. Why, it's not like anything interesting happened to anyone else today. So Bart is looking at a giant diamond, Lisa has a broken arm, and Maggie has a world's cutest baby sash around her. I want to know those stories. Those are three episodes they have yet to make. Lisa's arm heals very quickly. It does.

Unless you can assume that, well, no, we know Larry stayed with him for a week. Maybe the story is that Lisa got a fake cast put on her arm. It could be. That's how you would explain yourself out of it. That's even more of an interesting story. But I love that Homer turns on his console. That's how how lazy he is he doesn't even have it on anymore and uh too that larry it kind of reminds me of him and hank scorpio where he's just saying like so lazy he

just has no other things to add to it and it's always great seeing homer tell march how much he likes someone than her. Yeah. And not realizing it. The Desert Island comment was pretty mean. We're getting more and more of Jerk-Ass Homer in this. And Ian Maxto-Graham is a king of writing Jerk-Ass Homer, I will also say. We basically get a scene from Caddyshack here.

Admiral Carstairs, I'd like you to meet my son, Larry. Hey, Skipper, good to meet you. Where'd you start out, on the Merrimack? Hey, I should talk. I hope I look that good when I'm 200. You're such insupportable. Please, he's very sensitive about his age. Oh, Monty, this must be the son I've heard so much about.

Larry, you must meet our daughter, the debutante. She came out last spring. Whoa, put her back in. She's not done yet. That is, Smithers, there's something a bit odd about young Larry. I can't quite put my finger on it. Well, he is a bit rougher on the edges, sir. One might blame his truly heroic

intake of cocktail. Pull up a seat, Pop. You too, Chuckles. I mean, the food ain't great, but the portions are terrific. You were saying, Marriott,, the food ain't great, but the Porsches are terrific. You were saying, Marriott, I know you got a real kick out of something. The wealthy dowager line, or like the put her back in, she's not done yet, I think is my favorite line from this entire episode. Let's do three lines of the show. That's the joke.

I just love the idea of someone giving a rodney dangerfield style character the perfect setup yeah like just just handing it to him right yeah just on a platter like served to him by one of these waiters and also this character like whenever there's a wealthy dowager on the simpsons i always think of the um the clown college episode where crusty's like all right so when the wealthy dowager comes in the party's over right nope and he like hits her with a pie in the face and she gets slammed into the wall and homer's taking notes and he just says out loud kill wealthy dowager that might be the same dowager so she did not die of massive brain damage from crusty's's concussion he gave her.

I actually looked it up. It is a slightly different design. Oh, no. R.I.P. The clown Dowager died, I think. I like that this Dowager, she even has the opera glasses. She's just the perfect Dowager stereotype. I really enjoy all of these high society figures that have not been alive since maybe 1984.

You never see them again because they're all dead. But I love them just showing up at this party. Oh, God. And it's just, you know where this is going the second you hear Burns tell him, like, you'll fit in just fine. And the USS Merrimack, folks, is also a boat that served in the Civil War. That's how old it is. I wish there was more interactions between Larry and Smithers, just how we call Smithers

chuckles. But then also, Smithers correctly identifies his rather heroic tink of cocktails. The adjective heroic to describe drinking is great. One I haven't heard before or since. You should use it more often. Burns knows just the trick to send him to Yale.

And here's another. I fucking love this scene, too. I enjoy Hank Azaria's very quietly angry character in this scene. How are his test scores? Let's just say this. He spelled Yale with a six. I see. Well, I, oh, you know, I just remembered it's time for my annual donation.

I wonder how much I should give. Well, frankly, test scores like Larry's would call for a very generous contribution. For example, a score of 400 would require a donation of new football uniforms, 300, a new dormitory, and in Larry's case, we would need an international airport. Yale could use an international airport Mr. Burns. Are you mad? I'm not made of airports. Get out! Summon my son at once. Ah it appears he's gone drinking sir.

The line before the clip starts I love so much, again, the quietly angry Hank Azaria character. He's just reciting Rodney Dangerfield jokes. Just matter of factly, he's like, he made fun of my weight problem and then asked if my motto was Semper Fudge. The actual Yale motto is Lut et Veritas, which is light and truth. It's not Semper Fudge, if that's what you realize. At that point, he told me to relax. The air quotes.

And this joke introduced me to the idea I was an innocent young man. I didn't know that rich people buy their, buy things and make donations to get their kids into schools even when they are maybe don't belong there those are legacy admissions correct yes yeah which that's ridiculous to me to even think that like harvard or yale is still is asking for donations it's like

you're freaking yale like you don't need a donation george h uh wait george w bush was a yalee right uh yeah it was a skull and bones so that's how he runs the world secretly no but uh but yeah the the international airport is a pretty great one the i also just love his hand motions when he's saying i'm not made of of airports. And a gone drinking sign. That's pretty cute, too. And it's pointed at the camera. So he knows where the hidden cameras are. He made it to be seen. He couldn't do that whole busted that couldn't slow down trick again.

He can only do it once. And then we cut to Moe's. And it was good to get a scene of Larry hanging out at Moe's, too. It's the obvious joke that, you know, if there's a joke about something happening to someone at Moe's, you know it's a joke about Barney. But I do like the reveal that he belches out a cartoonish fish bone. That's pretty funny. The kind that Heathcliff would pull out of his mouth. It should have made a xylophone sound when it came out of his mouth.

And also, I'm calling him a doll baby. Like, I just love that. He's a doll baby. Like, I just love that he's a doll baby. He takes Homer to dinner, which again, I have clips of plenty in this because they're just all great. And this dinner is amazing. I really like how much Homer wants to dish about Milhouse and how he thinks Burns would care.

That little weeder. He's never heard of Milhouse in his life. He doesn't care. And he doesn't know that Burns is making fun of him. Yep. Oh, this is some party. If it gets any livelier, a funeral's gonna break out. Quiet, you.

Nobody likes a comedian. Jeez, come on, Dad. We got company. Make with the yakety yak yak. Oh, yakety yak yak. You, food bag, do you have a son? Yes, sir, I do. And is he a constant disappointment?

Does he bring home nitwits and make you talk to them? Oh, all the time. Have you ever heard of this Ted Milhouse? He's a little wiener, huh? Fascinating. Good night. Dad, what's with you tonight? I mean, I'm getting frostbite over here.

I'll tell you what's with me. The humiliation of having a coarse, boorish, ignoramus for a son. I should go. What's the matter, Pop? Don't you love me anymore? So I love the line, Dan Wiener Kids, from Team Homer. Yes. But I do like the phrase, little Wiener. Little Wiener kids from Team Homer. Yes. But I do like the phrase Little Wiener.

Little Wiener. And I combine them now whenever I, we do a lot of shows about media and often there are young boy characters who are Little Wiener kids. So I believe the last time I used that was on our Evangelion podcast and I kept calling Shinji a Little Wiener kid.

He is too. You know, Burns does have a history with Milhouse to this point, though obviously he never bothered to remember his name. One, he specifically said no geeks when Milhouse applied to be his heir. Yes. And more importantly, he crippled Milhouse. He broke Milhouse's leg. And he said he'd come back.

When did that happen? Did he hit him with his car? No, that was in the football game in Homer Loves Flanders where he's like a little crippled boy. He wants you to win. I know because I crippled him myself to inspire you. But I mean, for him,

that's probably it'd be hard for Burns to remember all the boys he's crippled. Oh, God. That joke is so funny in the moment. But when I think of it in abstract, I'm like, oh, Burns like broke the bones of a child. That's horrible. Red Smithers do it.

Come on. Yeah, he'd do it himself. He doesn't love Larry. It seems pretty clear on that. And so this also feels like a very jerk-ass Homer with his insane sitcom suggestion love Larry. It seems pretty clear on that. And so this also feels like a very jerk ass Homer with his insane sitcom suggestion for Larry. Yeah. I mean,

I do love the third act, but I feel like it is much like a Milhouse divided in which it's like, Oh, we need to get the Simpsons back in the show. And when easily there could have been a third act more about Larry and Burns. Yeah. I tell you,

I don't get no regard, no regard at all. No esteem either. Larry, there's only one sure way to make him realize how much he loves you. And that is a phony kidnapping. Yeah, right. I don't know.

Maybe I should just leave town. Phony kidnapping? Nah. I know what I gotta do. I gotta clean up my act. No more joking around all the time. No more slacking off at work. And most important, no more booze.

I know I can do it. Your son has been kidnapped. I really enjoy that we are denied the chance to hear no respect from a Rodney Dangerfield. It's the greatest screw you because often they do indulge in their guest stars. They, they do say the line, you know, but in this case,

it's a very Simpsons choice to deny you what you want the most and make a joke about how they are denying you. You know, I was thinking of this when we did the Sideshow Bob episode with Arlie Ermey in it, because they did have him say, what is your major malfunction? Which is do the line for him from Full Metal Jacket.

So maybe they learned from that of just like, no, let's not, let's surprise people. We can't go with the obvious thing here. I love that they hold, and that they just pull out the thesaurus. And they're like, what are other words for respect? No regard either. At that time, it was a literal thesaurus in the room.

Yes, yeah. And I like to imagine at some point, Larry realized he couldn't do any of those things, and he went along with the phony kidnapping. I want to think they're also partially inspired by the Lindbergh baby famous kidnapping from the earlier part of the 20th century, in that now, now like Larry is being treated like a baby that was stolen and Burns is the rich industrialist trying to get him

back it feels like the type of oldie time thing Oakley and Weinstein would go for except Larry survives and it's a phony kidnapping oh come on it's not too soon for the Lindbergh baby I do like the police going around Burns' house. And also same with Smithers pointing out. He's like, didn't you want to be rid of this guy?

He's like, no one steals from Mr. Monty Burns. And also how long it takes Wiggum to realize, and then the net drops, right? Like, I like it. I want to know what his idea was before the net dropping was part of the plan. It was just how he's leaving the money. The family has all come together in the basement again. Or actually, no, wait. Hurricane Nettie hasn't happened yet.

We've recorded Hurricane Nettie first. I get these basement scenes mixed up because they happen so close together in the episodes. What are you doing in the basement? It's like you're hiding out down here. Hiding out? Pfft, Marge. You've been reading too many hideout books. in the episodes. Harry. He's great at pointing out everyone's foibles. Hey, how you doing? Ooh, look at your hair. What happened? You saw yourself in a mirror? He's kidding, Mom. But seriously, I'd love to have hair like yours.

I just can't get the zoning permits. Hey, that reminds me, Mom. Buckingham Palace called. They want their hat back. Hey, kids, how about a hand for your mom? She's all right. Yeah, Mom! Run, Mom!

Yeah, thank you. It's a good choice that they don't give Homer a joke because he's not clever enough to think of a Rodney Dangerfield-style joke. But that, Homer's, I guess, really like denial of Marge's feelings is like saying, you read too many hideout books. That is secretly my favorite line in the show. You read too many hideout books. I just love how quick he responds with that.

That's why it was my intro line because I knew the joke was, and I was taking a big swig of almond milk, and I was like, oh shit, and the joke came, and I nearly choked to death this morning. So I just love the phrase hideout books. And I love the pattern of the insult comedy, too, of just like that Marge is like the person who's in the audience, like is being insulted he goes i don't like this and so when you're not laughing along with them then the comic has to go like hey let's have a round of applause for this person they're all right i love all the times uh he says he's all right or she's all right in this episode it's great it's very heartwarming and march has a very real reaction to like oh thank you like polite laughter yes and uh this goes straight to homer's

ransom phone call which is i i get a confused i first thought it was a reference to the movie ransom but that came out after this actually hello mr burns this is the kidnapper do you miss your son? Yes, I'm missing one son. Return it immediately. If you really love Larry, prove it. And you can have him back today. Oh. How much proof do you need? 5,000? 6,000? I swear, that's all I've got.

Don't you care about your son? This is more important than money. More important than money? Who is this? Uh, uh, uh, Uh, so that's Dan Castellana talking through a real kazoo. More important than money? Who is this? So that's Dan Castellana talking through a real kazoo. Wow. And I also love the line,

Yes, I'm missing one son. Return it immediately. And his cautious, Ahoy, hoy. Yeah, they kept the ahoy, hoy in there. It's nice and cautious, like, Who am I speaking to? But instead says,

Ahoy, hoy. And also Wiggum throwing out the phone number just because it's a five five five it's all sounds fake oh is this when we get the uh the marge line about hoaxes oh oh right uh oh there is a line about i think it's coming up actually yeah oh i don't have the clip but yeah yeah when she says you know how i feel about hoaxes and homer's just like, still? Oh, that's good. She's right. She told him not to fake his own death.

This is just another hoax. That and the hideout book line are really great. I love them. Still? It's a simple hoax to win a father's love. You know how I feel about hoaxes. Still? And then her insistence that he leave and take him there now even though it's

daylight out and they'll be caught immediately, which they are caught immediately. And Ken Brockman points it out. There's only one word for this. Idiocy. Poor Marge. This is a real runner of Marge just being told to her face like, you're wrong. Yeah, you're wrong and your plan is stupid. Do you ever get tired of being wrong, Marge?

Sometimes. Poor Marge? Sometimes. Poor Marge. She's just trying to do what's right. That's all. I had to look it up. I had always assumed it was a real thing. But Pai Gao poker is a real thing, which has really fallen out of popularity. Texas Hold'em is where it's at.

I prefer Kuang Jong. Yeah, Kuang Jong is apparently fake. That's not a real thing. But I got Pai Gao. out of popularity texas hold'em is where it's at i prefer uh quang zhong yeah quang zhong is apparently fake that's not a real thing but i got paigao so paigao poker paigao is the domino game or a domino game played in china and it was modified into a poker style which is you're handed seven cards and you have to get two good hands one that is five cards and one that is two cards so it's not about it's it's more complex than just plain old poker and no fun it's funny that he that larry is teaching them like these that's where it feels like he's not larry burns but rodney dangerfield the guy who plays poker games all the time teaching children to gamble

and uh yeah they head out and they go to the movie theater to see Too Many Grandpas starring Olivia Dukakis. We get a few. Olivia Dukakis, yeah. And Bo Derek. But we get a few great... I always love The Simpsons when they do a twist on the escape or chase gags.

And the one I love a lot is in Bart Gets Famous in which Bart jumps in a laundry cart and no one carries it away so he just walks out the door. In this one they both go into a costume store and then two people walk out and then later it's revealed that they're in the bathroom and the guy's like buy a costume and get out. It's a great, I love that. And also they try to hide in an abandoned

warehouse. It's full of people and Homer's line is stupid economic recovery. I love the just the sight audio gag when um when wiggum and the cops are trying to sneak into the theater and they're just like it's so loud like they're just stepping on the concealed soda and popcorn and candy and like it's just such a disgusting noise it's so gross and after realizing just how great the foley was i went back and watched the scene and it's also in the animation there's like more effort taken to lift their feet off the ground yes it

they planned that far ahead with it and i i also love just how at the costume shop how meekly they're hiding like they're just they have the lights turned off in the bathroom they're just like oh god i hope they don't they don't find't find us. And when they see the movies, they wouldn't have been caught if Homer hadn't thrown the popcorn in Mole Man's face. That is so mean. And then say, what are you going to do? Call the police? Oh God.

And then we get a bloody end for Homer Simpson. My God. Okay, this is another amazing scene. This has David Merkin all over. I know he wasn't writing for the show. Roll that. This will be in footage. This is Kent Brackman live from the Aztec Theater

where police have learned that kidnapper Homer Simpson and hostage Larry Burns are inside talking loudly. Give yourself up, homie. No, Dad. Shoot your way out. Hmm? A bloody end for Homer Simpson. It's just one of several possible outcomes, according to our computer simulation.

Now, here's how it would look if the police killed him with a barrage of baseballs. We've got to go down there and help Dad. No, stop it! It's a great joke about how sensational the news is, but also it's a very cruel joke on the family, which I also love, and the viewers, too. No, it's funny to think about when you would have been caught by it, because I wasn't tricked now, obviously, on the 8 million viewing of it, but I know when I first watched it, like me,

I was watching it with my mom and brother, and we gassed! We're like, oh my god! A bloody end for Homer Simpson. And it's so extreme! That's not the type... I mean, you would see that kind of violence and itchy and scratchy but you don't see homer shot to death even in like halloween shows they don't really do that the last time we saw that amount of gun violence uh that explicit was in the scene in the mcbain movie where he crashes mendoza's party and shoots everybody yes and then the follow-up to it that you have just through sound effects only homer being beat i'm just going oh

uh oh i forgot ken ted another line that i finally just got this time and he's like he says they're in copter chopper six yeah i did write that one down copper chopper six no arnie pie and the Too Many Grandmas. That is the type of movie Rodney Dangerfield would have been starring in in 1996. I gotta say. Like, it's easy to look down on that movie. He still had, I think, Meet Wally Sparks would be early 97, which I never saw. Lady Bugs was my last one.

And even that, I was like, I'm too old for this. And now it's just a creepy movie to watch as an adult but they they didn't know better than yeah check out nathan rabin's column on that movie it's very uh disgusting not not not because of nathan of course but yeah uh but the movie theater thing first that they say out loud that it's aztec theater which that's just in my mind because bob and me just went to the universal studios and got to see the giant Aztec theater-like landscape they have there, which is so cool. And they say it out loud, so that's more Simpsons geekery

of them going to the specific Aztec theater. But also, I think they did it partially because Al Capone and Lee Harvey Oswald were caught in movie theaters, and it feels like a reference to that. You're probably right. I never even thought of that. That's my assumption. Also, the way they're caught, this is some extreme Burns stuff too. Burns orders

the police to shoot Homer and they are just about to. The negotiator failed. Shoot him. So cruel. But here is the happy ending don't be a fool Simpson let the kid go the negotiations have failed

shoot him wait I mean Homer's no kidnapper but he's the best friend I ever had we faked the whole thing I should have known you were the only one stupid enough to kidnap you But he's the best friend I ever had. We faked the whole thing. I should have known you were the only one stupid enough to kidnap you. Now get down here so I can spank you in front of this gawking rebel.

Smithers, take off my belt. With pleasure, sir. Hold on, Mr. Burns. Maybe we did fake a kidnapping. But is that really such a crime? All your son wanted was a little attention, a little love. I'm a father myself, sir. And sure, sometimes my kids can be obnoxious or boring or stinky,

but they can always count on one thing, their father's unconditional love. Aw. And that speech of Homer's erased any wrongdoing he did or any crimes committed. It's a very sitcom-y speech, which I think is why they have to undercut it with the next moments. Oh, yeah. But it's also cute that when Homer insults each of his children specifically, they all react to it with like, hey, just a look on their face. Lisa got boring. I like that she was chosen to be the boring one.

And even Maggie recognizes she's being all smelly and kind of furrows her brow. Like, hey. And this is another moment of the show rejecting sitcom-y tropes and being told, like, so if Burns had just accepted, like, I will be nice. We've been fine if the next episode he forgot. Nobody would hold him to it. But this, instead, they even just reject it in the moment here. No lessons are learned.

How about it, Pop? I know it's tough, but can you love me for what I am? There, there, sonny boy. I suppose I have been a bit... Oh, no, I can't do it. It's just not me. I'm sorry, Larry.

I can't be the family that you need. Oh, that's okay. Well, I got a wife and kids. Oh, that reminds me. They're probably wondering where I went. I told them I'm going for coffee. That was a week ago. Well, son, delighted to have met you.

It's good to know that there's another kidney out there for coffee. That was a week ago. Nelson, delighted to have met you. It's good to know that there's another kidney out there for me. You got it, Pop. Just let me run a few pints through it first. As long as everybody's here, let's party! Who's playing that music? I can see Larry's dancing in my head right now. Yes, it's an amazing ending.

It's a joke about how just spontaneous parties just happened in 80s movies back then. But it is very specifically a Caddyshack reference. Yeah, it's a Caddyshack scene where he's got the sound system in his golf bag. Yes. Actually, here, I'll play it right now. What do you got in here, rocks?

Are you kidding? When I was your age, I would lug 50 pounds of ice up five, six flights of stairs. So what? So what? So let's dance. Mm-hmm. Got so great but what i love about that scene watching it now is it is so obvious they didn't know what song was gonna play and you just feel so bad for rodney dangerfield they're just like

well dance to something we'll put a song in later and so he's just like dancing the same with his arms moving his arms at the same with his arms moving his arms at the same time and then kicking one leg out just as larry does yeah it's it's so awkward and amazing and then they just stick journey over it which one of the hottest bands in the world i love journey is great everybody loves journey they're one of the best karaoke bands at least uh you know for basic folks but i love them right and then this song i any way you want it is such a great song i do like it as a kid i did not see caddyshack or really know what they were referencing i just appreciate it on the level of just uh like sort of absurdist ending where it's like we need we need to end this so a party breaks

out and everything's fine that's how i it, and that's how I enjoyed it. But now that I know what it's referencing, I do like it a lot more. Well, and every character from the episode is there. Like the park ranger, people wearing the apple hats. One of the dancers is the guy in the gorilla suit. And the Admiral Carstairs is breakdancing. He's spinning around. Yeah, they're just all partying.

And the looped animation of them partying at the end is so fantastic. I think we've used that to celebrate things for our Patreon. Yeah, any final thoughts on this episode, Merit? God, it was really fun. Like, you know, I don't watch The Simpsons much anymore. But this was like a really good opportunity to go back and see what for me is like a classic Simpsons much anymore, but this was like a really good opportunity to go back and see what for me is like a classic Simpsons episode. It's right in that sweet spot of when I was watching it like basically every week. And I remember watching this episode, maybe not in the

first run, but definitely seeing it in reruns. And it's like just watching this perfect little machine just like set in place and then run for 22 minutes. It's like really beautiful. And, you know, I have kind of a problem with and I guess this is getting more general than just this episode, if that's OK. But I have a problem with like the ways that sitcoms have sort of changed format, especially with Netflix, where they're running half hour shows because there's no ads. And they're like, well, why not stretch it out to half an hour? And the answer is, well, because most of the time, that's a bad idea. People know how to write for 22 minutes. And that's like kind of the format. And when you do that, the pacing really suffers. And so watching something like a classic Simpsons episode like this is like, it's so tight. Like it's so it's just it's like joke joke joke joke joke

and it kind of makes me miss that yeah yeah i i know what you mean i i was just thinking this recently with in a good way for the show glow because i'm just used to so many longer shows on netflix that are just like well we could be 20 minutes to 40 minutes long if we feel like it. But in most episodes of GLOW, except for the season finale, it's 25 minutes. And when I'm watching Netflix with my husband, it's more just like, oh, let's binge GLOW because this is manageable. Or even another great show that did that was even better was Aggretsuko, this recent anime, because they're 15 minutes long, and that felt like zero minutes to me. I was like, wow, 15 minutes? I'll be done with this easy.

I have watched plenty of newer Simpsons episodes and enjoyed them, but I feel like what really makes them suffer and what really feels absolutely fundamentally wrong to me is that they are all now four acts, and the final act is like 45 seconds, and it just ruins the it ruins like it ruins the structure you're used to like the third act structure that you love just to have a sort of

tacked on joke to wrap everything up i do not like the four act structure but i wanted to ask merritt like what is your estimation of mr burns as a father given your experience in analyzing dads i mean it seems pretty clear on the face of things that he is, you know, a classic absent bad dad. Someone who, you know, knocks someone up and then just sort of runs off to go fight in World War II. And, you know, doesn't inquire, doesn't like, doesn't find out. And then when he does have the son show up, he's like at first he's overjoyed. And then he's like, oh, this is the he's not who I wanted him to be. And so I I don't care for him.

But I really like the last scene because it's not I don't know, like Mr. Burns isn't written as being like, oh, you're a buffoon. I can't possibly. It's just like he written as being like, oh, you're a buffoon. I can't possibly. It's just like he says it's his problem, not Larry's. He's like, oh, it's just not me. I'm not a loving parental figure. So I'm sorry. I just can't be that for you, which is kind of interesting to me

because I feel like they could have just ended it with him just being like, no. How can I be the father to such a boor? I guess it doesn't matter who Larry is. Burns fundamentally can't love anyone. In general, he simply can't. It would be nice if parental figures who can't

love people at least said it outright. They're like, you know what? I can't. And that Larry also, he grew up without a parent his whole life, so he seemingly turned out alright, and he's a father of his own and one time he saw a blimp yeah actually that line about going out for coffee was added by rodney dangerfield i just love how they they addressed that in the last 30 seconds like that

reminds me i've got a family i i love that so much yeah oh so merit uh we'll do our own plugs once we're off the line with you can you talk about where we can find your stuff and what the newest thing you've worked on is? Yeah. So you can find me on Twitter at Merit K, two R's and two T's. And there's stuff coming out every week at Verve. And there's stuff coming out every two weeks at Mel. And those links are in my bio on Twitter. And yeah, I mean, check out the podcast, Woodland Secrets.

We have all kinds of really great guests. You know, we've had Patrick Rothfuss, we've had people like JB Brammer, Charlotte Shane, all these like really amazing writers and people from Twitter that you've probably seen their tweets. And we get to just sit down and have like really open, fun conversations with them. It's kind of not a lot of podcasts I feel like are very like high energy news stuff or are just like a couple of people just like making jokes all the time, which those are both great. But ours is sort of a little more subdued.

And people have told me that it's like listening in on a conversation between two friends, which I feel like... Except it's nice and legal. Yeah. Exactly, yes. except it's nice and legal yeah another of my favorites I think Austin Walker is a really great guest oh he's great and the last one of yours

I wanted to shout out to just that you got Paul F. Tompkins a podcast isn't a podcast until you get Paul F. Tompkins we had him on Dad Feelings talking about Luke Skywalker in The Last Jedi. And that was a pretty high point of this year for me. Because, you know, he's incredible.

And getting to talk with him, and we'd never spoken before, but he was so gracious for him to just agree to be on this podcast, sort of sight unseen. And then we had this really great conversation about Luke Skywalker and our differing experiences as people who both grew up with the Star Wars films, but like 30 years apart. And, and your Patreon supported too, right? Yeah, yeah, we are. So if you go over to, you can just go to staymean.co slash support. That's, that'll just redirect you over to our Patreon. Yeah, so we don't run ads.

We don't have any corporate sponsors. So we are right now entirely listener supported. And we like to give something back to people who choose to help us out financially. So we have bonus episodes, which are often recurring guests. And so if you're a fan of the show, if you like these guests, you want to hear more from them. We have these bonus episodes that come out about once a month. And we have one actually coming out pretty soon. It may be out by the time this airs, but with fan favorite Pat Gill of Polygon.com. So yeah, check that out. Awesome. Thank you so much, Merit. This was a great episode and we will see you when we see you.

Yeah. Thanks so much. Bye. Yeah. So thank you again to Merit for joining us. Make sure you check out all of her stuff. She's got a lot going on and it's all very entertaining. As for us, we are supported by the Talking Simpsons Patreon. If you go to patreon.com slash Talking Simpsons,

you can find out how to help the show at the $5 level. You can get every episode of this show a week ahead of time and ad-free. You could be listening to next week's episode right now. That also goes for our sister podcast, What a Cartoon, where we look at a different cartoon from a different series every week. If you subscribe to the Talking Simpsons Patreon,

you get every episode of that a week ahead of time and ad-free as well. And at the $5 level, there is so much exclusive bonus content, including entire mini-series like Talking Critic and Talking Fut futurama and interviews and season wrap-ups and deleted scene specials and just run like super out of nowhere bonus podcast and we decided to do something cool for our patrons henry what are the two most recent cool things people should check out on the patreon to get them to give us their money well at the coming very soon is the recording of the live show that we did which we haven't done at the time of this recording, but we'll be doing. It's gone well.

Yes. And also, I throw it back to all of our interviews. We have some really cool interviews coming down the line here that we're planning. But at current, you should check out our interview with Mike Reese, who we talked to him about his 30 years on The Simpsons and his new book, Springfield Confidential. So yes, that is patreon.com slash Talking Simpsons. Even a dollar a month would help us out a lot. We are all fan supported. We appreciate your support and we try to do as much as we can for our fans out there.

So thank you so much. Hell yeah. As for me, you can find me on Twitter as Bob Servo. Please follow me there. And I have another podcast, by the way, if you haven't heard about it. It's Retronauts. I'm about to roll into my eighth year of doing Retronauts,

so I've been doing it for quite some time. It's existed since 2006. I recommend you check it out if you go to retronauts.com or look for Retronauts in any podcast device you happen to have lying around.

You'll find it. I say pick a topic that interests you. We've done, like, probably over 400 episodes over the past 10 years, so I'm sure there's got to be something that you're interested in.

Download that episode. If you like the show, subscribe to it. Or even support that Patreon, too, at patreon.com slash retronauts. I get a little bit of money out of that, too. But Henry, where can we find you? You can follow me on Twitter at H-E-N-E-R-E-Y-G. And if you want to find out when new stuff gets posted on this Patreon or on the free feeds i tweet about it there and also uh any other news that happens in the world you can follow me h-e-n-e-r-e-y-g

thank you so much for joining us folks we will see you next week for bart after dark let's party anyway you want it that's the way you need it, any way you want it She loves to laugh, she loves to sing She does everything She loves to move, she loves to groove She loves a lot of things All night, all night, oh, every night So hold tight, hold tight, baby, hold tight Oh, she said, any way you want, that's the way you need it

Any way you want it She said, any way you want, that the way you need it, any way you want I was alone, I never knew what good love could do Then we touched, then we sang about the loving things All night, all night, oh, every night Cynhyrchu'r cwmpas yn ystod y llaw. Cynhyrchu'r cwmpas yn ystod y llaw. Cynhyrchu'r cwmpas yn ystod y llaw. Cynhyrchu'r cwmpas yn ystod y llaw. Cynhyrchu'r cwmpas yn ystod y llaw.

Cynhyrchu'r cwmpas yn ystod y llaw. Cynhyrchu'r cwmpas yn ystod y llaw. Any way you want it I said any way you want it That's the way you need it Any way you want it She said hold on, hold on, hold on I'm not a fool Thank you. Outro Music Oh, you can stay, but I'm leaving. Yellow if they're using late season apples. And of course, in Canada, the whole thing's flip flop. Oh, my.

I better get you some cider.