Talking Simpsons - Talking Simpsons - Cape Feare With Mike Drucker

Episode Date: September 18, 2024

It's the end of the first era of Simpsons writers as we welcome back returning favorite, comedy writer Mike Drucker (pre-order his upcoming book, Good Game, No Rematch)! In a full-length parody of 1991's Cape Fear remake, Bart evades murder by the talented singer, Sideshow Bob. Learn how this episode was written, how Jon Vitti looks back on it, why the animation is so gorgeous, and even the secret of Poor Little Buttercup. Grab a pan of brownies and watch out for rakes while listening to this podcast! Support this podcast and get over 180 ad-free bonus episodes by visiting Patreon.com/TalkingSimpsons and becoming a patron! And please follow the official Twitter, @TalkSimpsonsPod!

This podcast is brought to you by Patreon.com slash Talking Simpsons. Head there to check out exclusive podcasts like Talking Futurama, Talk King of the Hill, the What a Cartoon Movie Podcast, and tons more. or product. This is our chronological exploration of the Simpsons. Who is here with me today as always? Henry Gilbert. And I think he's talking to you. And who is our special guest on the line? It's Mike Drucker. Uh, I forgot to think of a quote at the last second. I'm sorry.

And this week's episode is Cape Fear. Oh my God, someone's trying to kill me. Oh wait, it's for Bard. This episode originally aired on October 7, 1993, and as always, Henry will tell us what happened on this mythical day in real world history. Oh my god! Oh boy Bobby, cool runnings loses to malice at the box office grace under fire debuts and Scientology is given tax exempt status by the IRS. What's a great day for the late LRH?

He was well, what do you mean late? He still exists and is alive at a higher form Bob collecting all that money and the IRS can't touch I'm behind on my literature. Yeah, he's going up the ladder. Haven't seen cool runnings, only familiar with all the jokes that Futurama made about the Jamaican bobsled team. Although I did watch a lot of Grace Under Fire, which I knew as blonde Roseanne.

We have regular Roseanne, but if you wait until Wednesday, there's a blonde Roseanne, and she's a bit different different I remember enjoying grace under fire a lot as a kid. I liked her southern twang. That's what was funny Most fun to me about Brett Butler Wait Brett. Yeah, yeah, it's Brett Butler. Yeah, I remember watching it with my mom and also though She enjoyed it because they made fun of a guy in it that one of the other the neighbor dude who he hated Bill Clinton but he also voted for him and they constantly like razz him about it and it was I remember my mom laughed at that because my dad also had a lot of anti Bill Clinton tirades at the time in 93. Well, you know, Brett Butler was having some issues in the 90s.

She might have made it out better than Roseanne because I don't hear about her. Well, hey, you don't know what she did with RFK yet at the time of this recording. She could have been partying with him too. Is RFK just sitting down with all the working class sitcom moms from the 90s? Every time there's one of those videos, what makes me most mad is how nice in the room They're in like they're always talking about like hitting a bear like moving a bear's fucking body somewhere And then they're in the nicest living room. I've ever seen it. That's what makes me mad I Felt a little bad for Butler a few years well a few years ago by that

I mean probably over 15 years ago when she was on one of those, the Comedy Central roasts. It wasn't her. It was one of those ones where they get, they invite, you know, Carrot Top or her to it just in case somebody's tired of writing all the jokes about Chevy Chase or, or Donald Trump. They can then say like, and hey, look at Butler over there. She was drunk a lot, right? And I'm like, yeah. Or poor Carrot Top, he absorbed a lot of that. Are we feeling bad for Carrot Top now? No, I guess not.

He's an incredibly, he probably owns like a third of Las Vegas now. Yeah, I'm sure that he is so insanely rich that it would almost surprise us how rich he is. Although I will feign sympathy so he doesn't beat me up. Yeah, that dude's tough looking. What is this Malice film? I'm seeing Nicole Kidman and Bill Pullman.

I have no idea what this is. I was aware of Cool Runnings, one of the final film appearances of Mr. John Candy. Well, unfortunately, Malice was not shown to us on lazy school days like Cool Runnings was, at least for me as a kid. But Malice is, it's an early Aaron Sorkin written film. I only am aware of it because it appears,

I haven't seen it either, but I've seen clips of it. There was that amazing super cut of how Aaron Sorkin reuses the same line like eight times in all of his different things. And there's basically a speech in it by Alec Baldwin's character who's being sued for malpractice He is a doctor with a god of complex for some reason Aaron Sorkin loves these like stories about like really narcissistic men It's crazy, but he has this great he does have a very good speech about how he's like basically the god of doctors and

multiple lines from it or then just used verbatim in West Wing and Studio 60 in the future Nobody remembers it. It's Though I gotta think Aaron Sorkin and Alec Baldwin that that's a good pairing. It feels like that's a room I don't want to be in That's a democratic fundraising room. You don't to be in. Right, right, right. You're going to hear a lot of strong opinions. Number two, you might get shot. You want to be at a Harris fundraiser. You want to be in the fun room with the SNL people, not the Sorkin Baldwin. And Pat Oswalt, some other fun comedians. That's the room I want to be

in. But I remember Cool Runnings is a fun, it's a fine little movie it's fun it's a fun kids movie but and yes Scientology you could make fun of it then to connect it to Simpsons part one one actors pay would no longer be is now tax exempts going into Scientology after yeah I guess in a way by promoting the Simpsons and speaking highly of it we are funneling money into Scientology and. Oh, geez, yeah. I guess in a way by promoting The Simpsons and speaking highly of it, we are funneling money into Scientology, and we're getting no kickbacks. That you know of. Oh, my checks aren't showing up anymore.

Anyway, that's all that happened the week that this episode aired. And joining us once again is Mike Drucker, who was last here for Brother, Can You Spare Two Dimes? Welcome back to the show, Mike. Hey, thank you for having me back. You know, it's funny, that was the last production episode of season three.

This is the final production episode of season four. I'm a good once a season guy. I'm a good once a season guest. Well, Mike, yeah, this is a funny episode because it's one of the last written, it is the last written by a staff of writers they talk about it having senioritis and stuff i i'm curious if you had have you had that feeling at a writing staff job in your career as a wonderful professional comedy writer senioritis it sort of depends on the

job i think with uh when i did the president show with Anthony a Tamanic We sort of knew that the show was we didn't know for a fact It was going to be canceled But every sign that we had was that it was going to be canceled And so we got senioritis in the sense that we were like, let's just do whatever we want Like if if this is good, if this is gonna go down Let's just have the most fun we possibly can with it because people aren't gonna watch anyway Which is not necessarily always a good business decision, but was a super lot of fun with that show. So that's probably the closest I've been. I've definitely like been burnt out at jobs, but that's the one job

I've been where everybody at once was kind of like, let's just go for broke and then go home. Yeah, we'll go into the history of the making of this episode. But the writer, John Vede, he says the mentality behind this episode is, quote, what are you gonna do, fire us? And I also think that James L. Brooks, they don't talk about this on the commentary, but I think James L. Brooks was not around for this because he was helping the showrunners develop the critics. So I feel like he was attending to that.

And this show is a mishmash of different teams between the seasons working on it. And it's very chaotic, but very punchy and very fun. Yeah. It probably helps when the big boss is busy in those moments. You can do something as indulgent, and this is not me saying it.

I love this episode just up front, but that we all do, I think, but that VD himself, like in multiple interviews, calls it Indulgent or just writers having having a lot of fun and caring more about a project they were into than worrying about Market ability or or the audience right? Yeah, I mean do you want to get into all of the behind-the-scenes? Well, yeah, Mike I was gonna ask as a writer to like as far as parody goes is I was gonna ask as a writer too, like as far as parody goes, is there a fear of like that a parody can get too niche

or too much for an audience or like too long for an audience? Long, definitely. Long is definitely something because you have to be, you have to be super careful about not wearing out the welcome of it. Because with any type of parody, you know, we've all seen a thousand Matrix or Star Wars parodies where if you get past a certain number of jokes, you're like, no, I got it.

I'm good. I'm good. So length is definitely a thing. As far as narrowness, I think it kind of depends on what the show is and what you're doing. Again, like if you're just trying to have the most fun possible, the most narrow possible is always more fun. But, you know, if you're in front of an audience that does not necessarily want you to like reference some obscure French film or something, you know, you got to consider what the audience likes. It's a balancing act. It's show to show. But I definitely think the thing is, one, having something to say about it. I think the mistake a lot of people make with parodies is they just do the rhythms of it. It's like when you see a 1950s educational film in something now and you're like, you're not really parodying it.

You just know this is a trope that you're doing But length is definitely it because just like my rambling sometimes you just like run out of interest Yeah, it seems like they were coming up short on material because instead of making the Cape Fear parody a set piece They decided to make it the entire episode kicks off from the very beginning So they use every trick in the book and one of those tricks will result in one of the most famous jokes the show ever Created yeah, yeah to me this this is like a top 10 best episode like because I think that the script is Very funny. I think because of that kind of reckless abandon to me But also the animators are just killing it so hard and to what you were saying Mike I do think they were animated, no pun intended.

But I think they were inspired by having fun watching the 1991 remake of Cape Fear. And people worked on the episode going like, boy, that was really over the top or big. Like, what if we did that with Sideshow Bob? I think they wanted to have fun with parodying such a wild movie as The 91 Cape Fear. Yeah. Which I just rewatched recently though, Bob you got to see it in a movie theater. Yes, Honest to God movie theater

screening at the wonderful Rio Theater in Vancouver. Please support them and visit them. I prefer that version. I rewatched the 62 one last night and I really appreciate what they're doing and how much they're pushing boundaries in a movie about sexual assaults in 1962. There are certain words they can't say, but the threat of sexual assault hangs over characters for almost the entire course of that film. But I saw Cape Firth for the second time as an adult last year and I prefer that version because it's so over the top. It's so campy I know people say and I'm sure it's on the record that De Niro or sorry

Scorsese is doing a De Palma riff in a Hitchcock riff, but to me it feels like Sam Raimi I don't know if Scorsese has ever seen a Sam Raimi movie But the amount of Dutch angles and pushing in on things while wildly it's just such a dynamic Silly over-the-top movie. I will say, though, you can have fun with this movie, but if the constant threat of sexual assault is something you can't get over, I understand why you wouldn't think it was fun. But I think it is a very fun 90s-ed up version of the 62 film. They both, they're doing their own things, but I prefer the speed of the 91 movie. I haven't seen the 91 movie since I was maybe seven and it scared the shit out of me.

That's all I got. I saw it as a definitely under 13 was when I saw it. And it was because I'd seen this episode so many times I wanted to know what was going on. But yeah, I just watched both over the last week 62 and 91 and I like the 91 One more than I did before it's it's weird. I Think Robert Mitchum is the best in his movie I think he's I think De Niro gets so crazy like he it does remind me of Evil Dead in how He acts by the end of that movie like how Bruce Campbell acts when he is possessed.

Like literally like a gibbering crazy person at the end. Like that's what he's speaking in tongues at the end of the movie. It's insane. Yeah, they add more to his character's backstory because I think he was in one of those churches where you do speak in tongues and they give him a little more. I like the 90s touches of Cape Fear because again, I feel like the premise was we're doing this for the 90s where the dad is compromised, he's a sleazy lawyer who's cheating on his wife, the beautiful pristine daughter in this version is a pot-smoking MTV watcher who

is groomed by Max Cady. The threat is lingering in the 62 version. In the 91 version, one of the best, creepiest scenes is that scene with Juliette Lewis and Robert De Niro at the stage, in the school play stage or whatever you want to call it. Auditorium. And she, being a fairly new actor, is holding her ground with De Niro and it's crazy to watch. Yeah, it's so unsettling in an intentional way like it's which definitely is harder to watch when you're not an innocent 13 year old. But no, I, yeah, I just think Mitcham, Mitcham is so scary in that movie, like the scenery just pops that egg, like while intimidating

the the wife, but yeah, the rest of the family in 62 has to be so perfect and like unimpeachably like moral it it makes them less interesting though the Gregory Peck all the actors are great but I'd seen 91 before 62 and I saw 62 and it's like oh what did Gregory Peck do to piss off Katie and it's like he was a what did Gregory Peck do to piss off Katie? And it's like, he was a witness to him committing an assault. Meanwhile, Nolte's reasoning is more morally gray. It's that he actually was bad at being, or he intentionally did his job wrong as a lawyer

to put a man in jail. It all depends on what crazy voice you want to hear from the dad in the movie you have Nick Nolte, and then you have What's sorry Gregory Peck almost an ever at Peck the creator of Duckman? He's like Max Katie. I'm gonna run you out of town Like no, you don't actually sound like that My feeling on De Niro was it's felt like he said three times as much to be less Intimidating to me than Robert Mitchum like he's just so big

He's like basically the Joker in the movie He's it made me think I am sick of prestige Scorsese I want schlock Scorsese again before he dies do another Balls out remake of some classic film and just make it crazy I feel like people thought he was this is right after goodfellas, and I know reading reviews at the time, this was seen as, oh, I can't believe he stooped to that, this man who is now creating these sagas for us. But I like this little digression,

this little side path he took, and I'm not sure why he did it, but it's such a great, fun movie. Tiny bit too long, but it just, there's so much energy I can't figure out what to cut in his version Shutter Island's kind of like that too I mean like you know it's easy to forget Shutter Island Scorsese just because it's surrounded by prestige films well even even the departed is a remake like that is like it yeah it has so much prestige to it but it is a remake no I

think well when I forgot exactly how he came to do the Cape Fear remake, but then at the end of the movie, I saw the Amblin logo. I was like, ah, Spielberg must have talked him into doing a more commercial thing. Like, I mean, also I know that for Scorsese in the early 90s, Goodfellas like saved him. Like he was not having success,

commercial success with films and was like in deep debt around that time. Yeah, now he's everybody's favorite TikTok grandpa. Is- Yeah. I also think he had like an insane cocaine problem around that time as well. That'll cause you a lot of debt. Yeah, that's true.

We're constantly appreciating him and then asking him what he thinks of Marvel movies. Oh. And pretending to be surprised when we hear the answer. It's like I think we know by now guys. Yeah. I also read last year the novel Cape Fear is based on called The Executioners and it's very different from both versions of the movies. I mean the Scorsese remake is pulling nothing from the novel. It's all about recreating the

events of the book. There's no houseboat in the book. In the book, Max Cady, you see him once, you see him in quotes, once when he tells the father, I'm out of jail now, I'll be haunting you. And then it's basically the threat of him is what haunts the family and causes the paranoia and the anxiety. And the final confrontation, I believe, is at a farmhouse where the dad shoots him in the dark, and it's not until the son comes up that they follow the trail of blood to see that he has killed Max Cady.

So he's kind of like a ghost in The Executioners, which is a good book, but it's very different from the movies and it has a lot of themes that aren't present like, oh, we all fought in the war, or the suburbs making us soft. Can we go back to killing each other again? Things like that because it's a book from the 50s. Yeah. Last thing about the 91 one that I love is that Scorsese so intentionally made it dated. Like the movie theater scene that's parodied so directly in this episode, they're watching problem child. Like that's so, and the MTV music videos that are playing on the TV are so dated and specific to like

1990 when they filmed it I love the problem child scene because Nick Nolte and his family are trying to enjoy the comedy of John Ritter and this man Won't stop smoking his cigar It's my only vice prosecutor my cow alright, okay, so So yes, we interviewed John Vede about this, but they talked a ton on the commentary too about how it came to be.

Yeah, so this is episode 9 of 22. It's the last episode produced by the original writing staff and the last episode of production season 4. So outside of Bill Oakley, Josh Weinstein, Dan McGrath, John Swartzwalder, and Conan O'Brien. The writing team for season 5 consists of entirely new writers and I can just list all the people who left after this season. The show should have died, the people leaving thought well that's the end of the Simpsons, the actors were mad that all the original writers were leaving, we'll talk about that soon, but the people who left were Al Jean, Mike Reese, John Vede, Jeff Martin, David M Stern, and

Jay Cogan, Wally Walr-Darsky, and on the art side, one notable person is Rich Moore, who directs this episode. He will go on to be supervising director of The Critic, and then supervising director of Futurama, and then he'll go on to Disney. Where he'd win an Oscar for Zootopia, so yeah. Yeah, no, I wonder partially if Rich Moore did such a great job on this because he was trying out for

the the Critic job or he knew he had the critic job and he wanted to like really go all out on his last Simpsons But John VD has said this to us in our interview with him and we've heard it many times before but like they they thought the Simpsons Was a fad that was dead like, and they'd get a fifth season that would take them to the number they needed for syndication, and then it's over. And it'd be a hundred episode show and there'd be no more Simpsons.

And they were getting out before the fifth season that kind of limps across the finish line. It's definitely the feeling you get. And yet, it actually is the show that never is stopped ever and may never. And is not legally allowed to stop as long as Disney has stake in it. Never.

And yeah, that John Vede mentioned to us that everybody on staff was exhausted and in poor health. They were having very many years of late nights, long nights working on the show. And once their contracts were up, they all were getting big overall deals in television which you used to have back then. So so which would you rather do keep working on The Simpsons or maybe create your own show and while developing it make probably four to ten times as much

money? Yeah even if the show's not made still making a ton of money. And yeah, as Bob mentioned that that Al, Gina, Mike, Reese were actually busy with the critic production anyway, and Jean on the commentary credits Wally Walidarski for pitching the Scorsese Cape Fear, which to put it in a time frame, the VHS version of it came out in March of 1992. And this episode's script was written in September, 1992. So that it was a foray parody back then, very fresh. Now, if a parody is of a movie that was in theater six months ago and I see it on TV, I'm like, God, what an old parody. Yeah.

Yeah, like if you saw a Barbie parody or an Oppenheimer parody right now, you'd be like, what are we doing anymore? I was looking at how popular the film was because I was a kid. I had no way to gauge this. I know what movies I saw from 91. This was one of them. Probably was not ready to see it at 11 or whatever by my parents. It was family movie night and it was time for Cape Fear. But this was the 12th highest grossing movie of 1991, so pretty popular. Outgrossed by the Naked Gun 2 and a Half, The Smell of Fear, but it did beat Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 2 Secret of the Ooze. Wow man see those two I saw theaters but not this one. But then you would see this referenced in other shows

like Seinfeld it had some staying power I don't know today if someone new to the Simpsons but younger than us saw this it would recognize what it's from but at the time I think it was assumed that everybody had seen this it had been over a year since the video came out Everyone had at least rented it for a while It almost seemed kind of like you know Jack Nicholson in the shining like that type of reference where you thought it was gonna stick around with this type of crazy guy But I do think you're right it like I think by the late 90s people had kind of faded it from memory and just stuck With the shining for their crazy guys. I think, too, if you were to use the visual of guy covered in tattoos

working out angrily, like it doesn't. And that just exists so much in reality now that you don't need. You wouldn't think Cape Fear. You would think like, oh, which workout influencer are you parodying here? There's been too many prison reality shows. It's muddying the waters Yeah, so Wally Walidarsky pitched this episode John VD was assigned to write it He was not happy about it because he says the weaker writing the episode is miserable and that was going to be his last week

on the show, but they decided to have a lot of fun with it. They made the best of it and He also talks about some discord between the writers and the actors. The actors again seemed upset that they felt they were being abandoned. Everyone was jumping ship and they wanted The Simpsons to go on very long. Little did they know, of course, it's going to be going on for 30 more years at least. They talk about how there are these end of the season parties and the writers, they go into the party and two actors in particular are not happy to see them So they retreat out of this party and go drink champagne on the steps of the writers room

And if I had to guess one of these actors was absolutely Harry Shearer The second one was probably Julie Kavner that would be my guess too if I were to if I were a bed man Speculation speculation, but he says the exchange between these two actors when they enter the room is, what do they want? Oh, I guess they want cake. All the nerdy writers back out of the room. This recording would probably be just a week or two after Krusty gets canceled, which Julie Kavner famously has no lines in because allegedly she sat out the episode in protest. So yeah, I think they said they had champagne because their agent sent it to them because they were Emmy nominated.

And he was like, oh, you used to get the champagne just for being Emmy nominated. Like Mike, do you get the champagne for an Emmy nomination these days? Well, here's the thing is it depends on both the show and the network, because sometimes the show will send you something and sometimes the network will send you something. And sometimes it's like very cool.

And sometimes like sometimes like one year for like Samantha, we got nominated for an Emmy and all the writers got projectors like, you know, like wall projectors. And that was great. And then some years you'll get like like like a I think one year this might have been President Show or Bill Nye, but we got like metal projectors. And that was great. And then some years you'll get like, like a like a I think one year this might have been presidential or Bill Nye, but we got like metal straws and they were like fancy metal straws, but it was kind of like, okay, thank you. I'm going to say thank you because I'm supposed to, but you didn't have to. Wow. Metal straws. Were they at least branded or something? No, no, they weren't. They weren't. But it really, it depends on the show and the budget

and how much the network like loves you. Because some shows they'll give you a lot of stuff and some shows they'll like send you a card with like a like a $15 Uber Eats gift card. They also mentioned like that VD said such a funny thing to us. I was re-listening to it where he said like they they did the table read. It went terribly. They said partially because Kelsey Grammer wasn't there to read his lines so stuff fell flatter and they were worried, you know, it was going to be a big rewrite. He said that, he said,

Beatty said Al Jean could never forgive a bad table read and he'd want to do a big rewrite. And Beatty was sure, 80% rewrite, it's going to have to be this. And Al Jean, who normally would have done that, even he was like, he was very busy with% rewrite, it's gonna have to be this. And Al Jean, who normally would've done that, even he was like, he was very busy with the critic, perhaps that's why, but he's like, eh, it'll be all right when Kelsey reads it, we'll be fine, let's not rewrite the whole thing. And yeah, speaking of Kelsey Grammer,

this is the first appearance of him as Sideshow Bob post-Frasier, post the show, Frasier starting. And in fact, if you waited one hour after this episode ended, you could switch to NBC and watch a Frazier season one episode four titled I hate Frazier Crane. That's incredible when they recorded it with him like he was he was starting the final season of Cheers and by the time it airs Frazier has begun. Also another funny timing thing with Gene and Reese is that

when they did It's the Gary Shandling Show, when they wrote on that in the final season, they actually wrote the last episode, which was an incredibly indulgent and very direct episode-long parody of Driving Miss Daisy. So, this is kind of a tradition for them. And I guess last preamble thing, we reference it up top, but the ending of this episode was written by the season 5 Production staff or some of them were borrowed for this ending

So it's a bit I mean it's mostly season 4 But because production goes on for nine months some season 5 guys are pulled into a room to come up with the solution to this episodes problem and that that Sam Simon came in to Oversee the rewrite Room for one of his last days for a future episode I was looking like, oh wait when did Sam Simon like officially leave Gracie? Because technically he was still working on other projects there. He was the president of television at Gracie Films. He is about done by the end of 92 at Gracie and so him heading up the Rewrite

Room was while Gene and Reese were busy with the critic pilot, that was his kind of farewell to the Simpsons as well. Though he made developer of the Simpsons money up until his death for the next 20 years after he left the Simpsons. But, which again, pretty good deal. As Sam Simon said in later interviews, he stopped working on the Simpsons because he felt like he was not getting enough credit Afterwards, he got far too much credited money for all the Simpsons for the next 20 years of his life The Simpsons will be right back

Why are the Simpsons leaving Springfield? Someone's trying to kill me! Oh wait, it's for Farts. Find out on The Simpsons tomorrow at 8, 7 Central. Welcome to the break, it's Henry Gilbert, AKA Poor Little Buttercup. Though I shall never tell why, but I will tell you why we love doing this week's podcast because we had Mike Drucker on it as a guest. We always love when we have Mike on.

He's such a funny guy and he gave us so much to talk about this classic end of an era episode for the Simpsons, Cape Fear. Thank you so much, Mike. Check out his books He promotes in this episode. There's links in the podcast description and definitely follow him on social media He's one of the funniest guys out there. Thank you so much Mike Love to have you back and if you enjoy us talking about this podcast You should know we're only able to cover the Simpsons this in depth because of listeners like you who subscribe at patreon.com

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They were short on time. They needed padding this whole episode. Though they cut a lot. There is like seriously over a minute of deleted scenes on the DVD. Yeah, and I like all of the deleted scenes. I've been very familiar with them since these DVDs came out.

I always think, why didn't you just leave these in? They're great and look great. Like I'm glad we finally get to see them on the DVD. Yeah, one in particular they replace, and they replace it with a scene that's all ADR that has to do a lot of heavy lifting, and it's always bothered me by how awkward it is. And now that I know what it replaced,

like I want that back. I want it back in. The other tell of it being long or short is that they start with watching television. They watch TV for about two minutes of the start of this episode. And we start with our first clip here, Up Late with McBain.

["Up Late with McBain"] Ladies and gentlemen, it's Up Late, Miss McBain. I'm your announcer, Upper Coop and Fuhrer, Wolf Castle. And here's McBain. ["Up Late with McBain! ["The Big Bang Band"] Yeah, thank you. Yeah, that's nice. Let's say hello to my music guy, Scoy. Whoo-hoo!

That is some outfit, Scoy. It makes you look like a homosexual. Whoo-hoo! Oh, maybe you all are homosexuals too. This is horrible. The Fox network has sunk to a new low. So I want to say something. This came out at the perfect time. They worked on it nine months in advance.

They had no idea. This would be launching in the middle of six fabulous weeks of the Chevy Chase show. So when this aired. That's perfect. I know, I thought, oh, they're making fun of Chevy Chase and how bad he is on his own talk show, which lasted for six weeks.

And it's not at all because they had no idea this was even forming within the Fox network. It's a reference to mostly Jay Leno in his uncomfortable relationship with his first band leader, Branford Marsalis. You definitely are hearing like the dog pound sound from the Arsenio, but yeah, it is great that it's just, he's talking to his bandleader,

and there were so many Johnny Carson bits of say like, wow, that's some jacket you're wearing tonight, Doc, or whatever, but here they just cut through any like charm or referencing and just saying like cut through any like charm or or or Referencing it just saying like you look like a homosexual and and and and you had mentioned that like yeah, this was this was a period when a lot of movie stars were getting late-night talk shows like our Senio like Chevy chase and I Think there was probably from some of the comedy writers some sort of pushing back like you don't deserve a talk show

To like certain people I think this was probably around now Joan Rivers had a talk show that like she launched without telling Johnny Carson which made him mad at her and they were like then rivals forever. So this really was like a very weird late night period as well. Two visual jokes I love that I might have caught this first time is the Nazi announcer when he does his hears McBain He turns a little you can see the not the swastika armband and then the hears McBain is the Nazi salute Which I just did on camera. No one screen cap that please I Mean as as a kid I didn't know what an Obergruppenführer was with meaning a high-ranking Nazi officer And I mean that seems like a very specific joke about

Schwarzenegger's you know that he's which he has talked about himself Arnold Schwarzenegger's talk himself about how he The shameful past of his family members being part of the Nazi regime and how much he hates and detests that I'm not They're making more of the joke of like but what if Arnold Schwarzenegger loved his Nazi uncle or something? And I think they're Recontextualizing McBain because they're not allowed to do the McBain action movie parodies Which is why scowy the man who died in the clip in Saturdays of Thunder is now his bandleader He's not the dead man. He's avenging his dead partner. It's the same guy his bandleader. He's not the dead man he's avenging, his dead partner. It's the same guy.

It's also, isn't Wolf Castle also his character's name in the movie, but that's the overgrop in Fuhrer's name as well? Oh no, that's his real name, Rainier Wolf Castle, so that is his relative who is doing it. Oh my, okay, yeah. Okay, I was way off. I think Krusty gets Cancel gave us our first Rainier Wolf Castle mention. Yeah, now thank you for pointing out that Scowee is the Scowee who dies in the movie. So they must be friends in real life, those guys.

No, I did want to quote Branford Marsalis because he was Jay Leno's first band leader. They hated each other. Or rather, Marsalis hated him and the things he had to do and how he had to play along with Jay Leno. And he was very upfront about this in a 1995 interview quote the job of musical director I found out later was just to kiss the ass of the host and I ain't no ass kisser Oh, I despise Jay Leno. I consider myself an ironist

I'm not comfortable playing along with the stereotype games if to be happy you have to pretend like you're happy That's not my style. So up front with the press, I hate Jay Leno. He sucks. Wow, man. I mean, a key part of American talk shows is being able to talk with your band leader and goof around with them. And if that's just not going to work with Brand for Marcel, it's feeling that way. Yeah.

I mean, honestly, like from experience, like there's a reason that Paul Shaffer and David Letterman worked well together, and that was because they actually liked each other and complimented each other's skills. And, you know, something I will say, you know, about the tonight show with Fallon is he really does like the Roots and the Roots are probably the only group in that studio who can make fun of him back. And so that to me was always a nicer relationship than necessarily like the kick to the musician for just the laugh that you sometimes got

in the older versions. Yeah, this fall Conan O'Brien's talk show started airing on NBC and he had a very stiff and awkward band leader who was a talented musician but he found ways to turn that into a character as with the other musicians as part of the Max Weinberg. Was it seven? Yeah. Okay, seven. Can you believe they had the budget for seven Max Weinberg and seven guys? That's why I was questioning myself. You do not know how expensive the band is

on a late night show. They are paid residuals just like anyone else, and also anytime you hear a song on a show like a original song I'd say 95% of the time the band will ask to write it one because they're the band but two because then they get the payments off it So bands are very expensive for late-night shows You know, I think them saying the Fox Network is sunk to a new low is is just general good bashing of the Fox Network But also I think it does show that they didn't know Chevy Chase was coming. Who could have imagined Chevy Chase was about to arrive?

But they were all, Fox was trying to, like they had failed to get Arsenio as their regular late night guy. They had been trying and failing into 92 with getting a late night block there. So I would guess they while they didn't predict Chevy Chase, they did predict Fox would get somebody that doesn't work on their late night show. So after that, then we get another very brutal joke of Lisa has a pen pal who at best has been put in a prison, perhaps even murdered and replaced with a... I say, I expect, sincerely, little girl makes me think that that means that it was a corpse

that they didn't know who they were finishing the letter for. I'm sure Admiral Krull is a reference to the movie Krull. Or that war was just floating around in their heads. Yeah, it's such a great dictator warlord name. And reading a letter and the narrator changing is hilarious. I love that. And then Bart gets his first letter, which this made it feel dated to me too. Letters written in blood.

It's like, well, DNA evidence instantly tells you who the person is now, right? Oh, yeah, yeah. We didn't have the O.J. Simpson trial. They could have easily turned this around on Sideshow Bob. This is less than a year before that when all of America learned what DNA evidence was, or that blood is useful in that. And as the music starts, we hear some of the Bernard Herrmann score, which, you know, the Martin Scorsese smartly just said, we're not topping this, we'll re-orchestrate it, but this is the perfect score.

Yeah, it only happens in the beginning and the very end of the 62 film, and I'm gonna throw out there, this isn't Alf Kloss and Soundalike. It's slightly different. It's like his version of Golden Slumbers that they had to use in the clip show. I don't know what the rights issues were.

I think Cape Fear is a Fox film. It's universal. Oh, it's universal. I know because I just put in the blu-rays which are blu-rays from the year 2009 meaning they had screen savers if you put them on pause for more than 30 seconds of the universal logo so that's how I know. But yeah it is an impeccable royalty-free sound alike by Alf Klassen where it's just different enough they don't get sued but just identical enough that you understand what they're going for and it's not until you watch the movies that you Realize I've heard such a Bob's theme a billion times and this is a tiny tiny bit different

Well, I'm gonna work on the behalf of the Bernard Herman estate to sue Alf Clausen over this It becomes this version becomes the becomes the Sideshow Bob theme from here on out, though I was so lucky to not have this spoiled. I don't remember, we talked about this before, Bob, but when it aired, this was a mystery to me. And then after the mystery is revealed, my mom and brother were like, didn't you read

TV Guide or the TV Listing? Kelsey Grammer was listed in it, it spoiled it. I was like, oh, I'm glad I didn't read that. Well, as a kid who watched nine hours of TV a day on the weekends, maybe seven on a weekday, I'm sure I saw a commercial for this maybe 10 times. And I'm sure in the commercial it had Bart and Lisa going, ah, Sideshow Bob.

But Mike, was this a, do you recall this being a mystery on your first watch? I remember watching this as a kid. Cause I remember this was one of, like, my family's favorite episodes, and we would occasionally tape a few on VHS, almost randomly. Usually it was the Christmas ones and the Halloween ones,

but occasionally we'd get, like, a random episode. And that was actually one that we really liked. So I don't remember if it was a surprise or not. I do remember, like, when I got to, like, high school and started taking German, really re-finding the V-Bart V joke, and that sort of, like, becoming this thing I do remember like when I got to like high school and started taking German Really? Refinding the V Bart V joke and that sort of like becoming this thing I brought up way too much But I just remembered it as like an episode. I watched a lot as a kid

I don't remember the first time and the writing a letter gang that almost feels like a call back to the lost season one Runner of people writing letters on Stationary in they did a ton in season one. It's funny to think that a Cape Fear remake transformed Sideshow Bob into a scheming villain to a bloodthirsty killer. And in fact, in this episode, he is even dressed like the Max K.D. character from Cape Fear

with the very loud cabana gear on. I don't know if he, I don't think he keeps that for the rest of his appearances, but we get the soundtrack and we get his lust for murdering Bart. I wish they had put in a line in the episode that he has a high tolerance for pain like De Niro's character did, but not because he grew up a snake handler, but because that as Krusty's sidekick he got a huge tolerance for pain. Oh yeah, I haven't watched it in like a year, but the snake handling thing ties in with his Pentecostal roots and that's why he's doing all the speaking in

tongues at the end of the movie. I love that he like he gets a bunch of boiling water thrown on him but he doesn't he run away he then like lights a flare and it burns his hand he's like yeah no I was born I have a very high pain tolerance so you're not gonna get me with that. He said that in a crazier Southern drawl, of course. Which it's also just funny to hear Robert De Niro, Mr. New York City, go like, well, counselor, I don't think that... It's very big. Though also it's funny, just having watched the Deadpool film, Deadpool Wolverine, that

movie, Cape Fear 91 91 has almost as many cameos in it that you're supposed to point at the screen like oh look it's the guys from the from the first version of the movie 30 years later wow it's that that's that's the guy who was the sheriff in the first movie so we come back to the Simpsons home they're watching itchy and scratchy the name of the cartoon is Spay Anything, which I just recently listened to the, you must remember this podcast about Polly Platt, and there's three whole hours on when she worked at Gracie Films.

And I always forget that Say Anything is a Gracie film, like that she discovered, so then parodying it in the title here is sort of a wink to like a Gracie films compatriot, I would say. Then it just becomes a gold, a gold finger reference. Did you almost say gold member? I did. But yeah, it gets all chopped up. This is where there's the first deleted scene in the episode that I have. I don't have a clip for because it's wordless After he gets cut up into pieces

Scratchy is then sewn back together by itchy and then when he sees his medical bill He then takes a gun and blows his brains out and in reaction to it I wish they would have kept that I feel like not a lot of looney tunes ended with a suicide But enough ended with suicides that I remember them Yeah, where a character goes good night, and he pulls out a gun and shoots himself in the head now. I've seen everything I Think it's hair ribbon is the one where bugs leaves the gun for the for the dog to kill himself. Yes We haven't talked enough about how bugs bun's greatest trick is to convince you to commit suicide It's not the fingers and the two barrels of the gun. It's leaving you a gun in your darkest hour

He destroys you mentally enough to leave you at your lowest point and he goes the only way out is through doc Well speaking of that scene this was the prop I had gotten which You know some Simpsons cells are very expensive because they're from famous scenes, but some, when they're from a deleted scene, people don't offer them for that much money on auction sites. And so I showed you here. Oh, wow. I have a cell of Scratchy being offered to the gun to buy Itchy. The cell is part of the Gilbert collection, valued at $1, wow. I have a cell of scratchy being offered to the gun to buy it. She was part of the Gilbert collection, valued at twelve hundred dollars.

That's amazing. It was a steal, folks. I'm telling you, it was a steal because people didn't know it was a Cape Fear cell. They didn't know. They thought like, oh, is what nobody knows what episodes it's from. So I was able to get it. But yes, I part of me, what episodes it's from so I was able to get it but yes I part of me it is such a weird cell to have of a gun being offered to someone for suicide that it's like well this is a dark cell to have just put it in your bathroom so after all of that then we see the Bart isn't laughing along then Homer gets the

letter he thinks it's for him when he sees it's for Bart, he relaxes and offers it up to Bart. And then everybody's taking accounting of the of the scary letters. And you instantly notice there's one written in black, which I as my first reaction every time is like, Oh, what an animation mistake. No, it's it's the joke. Which Homer wrote a threatening letter to Bart because he was given a magical disappearing tattoo that will never be seen on Homer again and wasn't seen before.

And this is where they're also enjoying the ha ha's so much that Nelson can just appear and teleport in to say it. He hasn't done astral projection yet, but he's getting close. You know, Henry, I think after this episode, Homer visited Dr. Zitzofsky from, what's it called, Simpsons Roasting on an Open Fire, the guy with the laser. You're right. You know what, there's instant laser tattoo removal in the Simpsons world.

It has to have been done that way. You're so right. Then Bart reflects on himself as this century's Dennis the Menace, a very good joke that implies that he that that the Dennis the Menace comic was put out of the 1800s. Such a funny joke. And Homer, I love that Homer thinks it's the person you least suspect which is not true which Lisa comments on. And then we have the weird ADR thing Bob was mentioning in our next clip here. This one's done in different handwriting. Oh, uh, I wrote that one after Bard somehow put this tattoo on my foot. But who'd want to hurt me? I'm this century's Dennis the Menace.

It's probably the person you least suspect. That's good, Dad. I say we call Matlock. He'll find the culprit. It's probably that evil Gavin McCloud or George Cuber Lindsay. Grandpa, Matlock's not real. Neither are my teeth. But I can still eat corn on the cob if someone cuts it off and smushes it into a fine paste.

Now that's good eatin'! And it sounds fine in audio form, but that entire grandpa rant is maybe five frames of animation just kind of videoed into place. Yes. Yeah, I mean, Mike, how much have you depended on editing or for saving you for a reused line somewhere? So much. On something like Adam Rootin's Everything

where you have multiple scenes, and especially like a fact-based show if something was suddenly falling through we'd need to figure out like a way in an edit to keep it making sense or somehow edit it so the fact was was correct. Anyway you do it so much you do it because you didn't have coverage you do it because the actor didn't record their lines correctly and now they only have 15 minutes to record at home in a booth to fix it. There's so many things that are fixed in editing, and it's not because you want it to be bad. Like, I know fixed in post is like a joke,

like, we'll fix it in post. A lot of the time, you didn't realize how bad something was until you get there. And that's kind of the issue. I don't know if that's what they ran into, or if it was just like, we're not doing this scene right, but like, when you realize in post that you're fucked, it is a rough period of time.

Oh, well, the deleted scene is pretty big that they cut out, it's like 30 seconds or something, like, or more. And sometimes with deleted scenes, we notice, oh, there's an animation error, so clearly, they didn't want to do a retake, and they realized, we can cut this and save some money. I didn't see any errors, and it seems like,

it's a perfect replacement for the long grandpa rant about Matlock. Yeah, so it's a very gross scene where, and I have the clip at the very end of it here of the audio, but it's a pretty gross scene where they say, who would want to hurt me? And then there's actually a really good animation bit of zooming into Bart's eye and then seeing his memory of pranking Abe where Abe is chewing tobacco or tabacky he'd probably call it and he wants to use his spittoon but Bart stole his spittoon and he doesn't know where to spit and he chases after Bart and instead then he spits into Lisa's saxophone instead and it's you don't see anything on screen but it's it's still

pretty gross and then Abe reflects on this afterwards in this little clip here I bet it was grandpa that withered old buzzard young man your elders have a lot of wisdom and should be treated with respect no you're thinking of Japanese old people you're right I'll just sit in the car till you're ready to drive me home They were just they were too mad at Matlock They had to shoot some shots at Matlock well You know Bob if you didn't watch Frazier that night you would have instead tuned into Episode 3 of season 8 of Matlock the fatal seduction part 2

Did air on that same night? I only watched the golden years of Matlock. And neither Gavin McLeod nor George Goober Lindsay were on that episode, but instead were Twin Peaks actor Warren Frost, who played Dr. Heyward, and the future Seven of Nine from Voyager, Jerry Ryan. I kind of prefer that the joke of them telling him Matlock's not real, I like a good Matlock joke, but I'm sad they lost the animation of the zoom

into Bart's eye and the spitting in the saxophone like a spittoon. So then we cut to the playground. Bart is scared of everybody there. He learns that nobody's trying to kill him, they're just gonna pull his pants down and call him fatty, fatty, fat, fat. Notably, Nelson does not laugh in this scene because I think they realize he just laughed in the last scene when he's laughing at Homer's tattoo through the window.

That's true. Too bad. He'd got his ha ha and he's like, all right, I don't need a second one. He's just playing through fate the way it's been dictated. Then we see the Bill and Marty are accessories to this intimidation because they play Sideshow Bob's song and dedication. They should get Wiggum to investigate this. See who called Bill and Marty to place this. Then comes a series of ridiculously wonderful misdirects of Bart seeing frets everywhere, which I guess sticks with the general paranoia vibe of the Cape Fear film. I like how hilariously cheap all of these fake outs are and they do them again later with Homer jumping into Bart's bedroom and scaring him. Yes I think you you should love the third one the most but my favorite is because they should like gradually that's the rules of comedy and rules are important. But it is the way Marge goes,

I'm going to get you some ice cream at the store. Nobody talks this way, it's so ridiculous. I mean, also because it's cool scan force you like, they should, good line too. That's a good line too. Reflecting on Edward Scissorhands, a relatively recent movie then as well. Yeah, I like the idea of hand of like hand shears just like him being like these are

so useful. I assumed it was Freddy Krueger because we get a Jason reference later. Oh yeah, it's no it's totally a Freddy Krueger pose but him doing it for topiary that that to me says it's Scissorhands. That's why I think we also get to see the Martin Prince is loving starring as Lizzie Borden which I feel like is another gay tw gay tell on Martin Prince there. But I was going to say Lizzie Borden stuff, which was like one of the favorites of true crime people for a century. I was like, Oh, you don't see him as much anymore. But I saw there's a frigging Lizzie Borden movie in 2018 starring Chloe

Sevigny and Kristen Stewart called Lizzie with a queer twist as as one would expect with Kristen Stewart being yeah, it was one of the first big american true crime stories in that one It's definitely of the opinion that lizzie did to do it not to spoil the movie for you guys cut to marge is Grilling wigum on how to do his job some very funny animation of squirrels being stuck in a person's pants That's a good little gag there. Though this is them parroting the movie too, where they just have a character, you know, Gregory Peck or Nick Nolte say, can't you do something to, with the police? They say, well, he's not breaking any laws. But in this case, Marge gets to point out, no, in this scenario saying I will kill you is a direct threat and breaks a law.

I like he brings over the book to it and he's like, she's right, chief. Like just the idea that it was like, look it up, go look it up. I just happened to look it up, chief, check that out. We cut to the home, Lisa thinks she's discovered who's to blame. And this is another non-cape fear thing to up, or that I had to look up.

I don't know if you looked into it, anybody. Linda Lavin? Yes, yeah. Well, it's just, why do they hate Linda Lavin, or why is Bart justified in hating Linda Lavin in Lisa's recollection? I believe this came up in an interview, or a commentary, or a Reddit thread. I forget where it came up, but I know Algein and Mike Reese knew people who worked on Alice and I guess she was hard to work with. That was generally the idea on Alice. Yeah. The most people I, one thing I read was that like flows actress who then left

the kiss my grits lady when she got spun off into her own show, she never came back that, and it was because she didn't like working with Linda Lavin. Another actress quit the show after one season because she didn't like working with Linda Lavin. The producers didn't like working with her. Though I will say like younger actors who have cast the still living Linda Lavin in cameo roles or smaller roles in the last like couple decades, they've all had very nice things to say about her. Like they they like her. So I don't know, maybe maybe the the the opinion has changed on Linda Lavin. I don't know if Linda Lavin's come into your professional workspace any Mike, but no, no, I have not run across her. But you know, I think some actors, especially later in life, you kind of I don't want to say learn your lesson, but you're like, okay, I've I realize that maybe I need to be better to people

I mean I apparently Joan Rivers really hated her too But yes, we get one final mo crank call or sort of mo crank call before the end of this era which Further makes mo a sleazier guy Linda Lavin no someone who didn't deserve it year guy. So get him out of here. All right, I'm delayed, I'm delayed. That Moe keeps a half dozen pandas in his back room is a great reveal that they build on in the future. Yeah, I mean, it escalates, but my favorite is the whale in the back room if they're spraying with water.

You know, the man trapped under his floorboard is pretty good too. Yes. But yeah, that they think that Moe has figured out that Bart is the crank caller and this is who they're threatening. But then Bart can't figure it out, he doesn't know what's going on and this is when at the end of the act they do this gigantic paint across the city that they hide the cuts in lightning but Richmore does it brilliantly.

They end up at Springfield Penitentiary, which it also reminded me, we just went to Universal Hollywood, Bob, and that they really did make the perfect version of the front of that prison, just like in this episode. Yeah, with the remnants of his escape attempt, just hanging out the window. Yeah. You see Bob escaping, it's great. And yes, we then get another perfect sideshow Bob Cackle, but we end with a great joke that he then is writing a letter to Reader's Digest for life in these United States, which if you wanna go to Internet Archive,

you can read a book that collects an entire 50 years of life in these United States essays. I'm okay. Yeah, I try to co-op this line when someone is doing something in a very confusing or improper, what's the word I'm looking for? Oh yes, needless way, like. Needlessly complicated way.

But no one really knows what I'm talking about when I go, use a pen, Sideshow Bob. This feels like also one more knock on Reader's Digest, which they did an entire episode destruction of Reader's Digest as Reading Digest in Mr. Lisa Goes to Washington. I also love the friendship between Snake and Sideshow Bob. You know, they kind of drop it after this,

but this is a sequel, because this is a sequel to Black Widower, they write several scenes for Snake and Sideshow Bob to share. Which now I wonder, would Snake, would you draw him with his pack of cigarettes rolled up in his sleeve anymore? Do people still, should we update Snake to be vaping all of the time, is what I'm saying.

He could just have a rolled up USB battery in his sleeve. So it's time for Bob to go to his parole hearing. I always feel like they're making a joke out of why is why do these characters get out all the time it's because Springfield has the most lenient parole board of all time that's how it keeps happening. We see a farewell between Sideshow Bob and Snake just like we'd seen in Black Widower. Though I just love the gun, but that's just, it's really good. I also like that the Pearl board seemed, there seemed to be a joke that was about S&P in there. That's great too, yes. How, how have you gotten peepee soaked heckhole notes yourself,

Mike? Yeah, oh definitely, definitely. Even things like how much butt you can show in a joke shot, like how much you have to cover it. You get notes like that all the time. And just like, you know, like they say on like commentaries for everything, you're kind of like, what if we give you this and you let us keep the fun thing? You kind of like make an exchange usually, but I've definitely had moments like that where I've been like, it's not even worth fighting for cheerfully, cheerfully retracted. Did you see it was going around Twitter just this weekend, but that scene of William Friedkin talking about how he put fisting in a cut of cruising just to scare the sensors and like, oh, well, when they asked me to cut this, then they won't notice the it'll recalibrate

them for the other stuff. I mean, I'm sure that everyone does this in every job, but like in showbiz, when you're like, all right, here's three script options and you're always trying to include one that you don't want them to pick, so they lean towards the one you do want them to pick. Then we see that Bob is covered in tattoos just like Max Cady, though not as interesting in the Bible. Just oh, we also see that everybody forgives Sideshow Bob instantly, including, you know, once he gets it, Chief Pigum, he loves it. Clancy loves being called Chief Pigum. He just didn't get the joke.

And everybody wants to kill Selma Bouvier. I think our pal, Drew Mackey, on Gayest Episode Ever podcast, he has used that leave the toilet seat up line for Patti as a reference to her being written as queer or lesbian in it that she for some reason wants to have the toilet seats up when she uses the bathroom. We hear urine soaked hell hole needs to be corrected to pee pee soaked heck hole But then we get the best now I won't call this episode full of great jokes, but this is one of the best ever. Robert, if released would you pose any threat to one Bart Simpson? Bart Simpson? The spirited little scamp who twice foiled my evil schemes and sent me

to this dank urine-soaked hell hole? We object to the term urine-soaked hell hole when you could have said peepee-sopee soaked heckhole. Tearfully withdrawn. What about that tattoo on your chest? Doesn't it say, die, Bart, die? No, that's German for the Bart, the. Oh. No one who speaks German could be an evil man. For all granted. A perfect line.

We're getting a lot of Hitler jokes in this episode You know, I just watched Jkogan has a new podcast Simpson's writer at this time, too And he just had on Matt graining and Matt graining never does podcast interviews. We should know we fry He's hard to get it's so funny. They're reflecting on it that graining is like yes I turned into the school bar that if I told you guys guys don't do these jokes, you'd put it in immediately. And he even in that they were saying, yes, I told you not to do Hitler jokes and you'd always do them because I asked you not to.

He had come to accept it. It sounded like 20, 30 years later. But yeah, the barm, I think I needed my mom to explain to me what that die means the in German. I did not know that as a kid. Then the way Sideshow Bob is walking out of prison is the exact shot from the beginning of the movie, of the 91 movie. He's even wearing the same shirt style that that De Niro is wearing when he leaves the prison and he even that I couldn't believe because when I rewatched for the first time it's like

wait no they didn't actually do it the exact same right but yeah like Robert De Niro basically walks until the camera is inside of his mouth like is he walks to the camera and it just blacks out on his face. The same in Sideshow Bob in this episode. It is a gonzo camera move in the movie. Yeah. I guess you had to wait so long to do these parodies because you needed to have the VHS on hand. For sure.

Yeah. Now it probably does speed up their parodies that if they're parroting a TV show, it's streaming instantly. And if they're parroting a movie, it's probably 90 days later when it's on a streaming service. Or if you want to be industrious, you could just download a Cam Rip.

That's true. I mean, sometimes a company will even let you, will give you an early cut if it's especially within your own family, they'll do that. That's true, they could probably ask for any Disney film for parody. Now, well actually, isn't it crazy that like, seriously, the weekend after Deadpool and Wolverine, the entire film is just out there as memes on the

internet. Like everybody just uses a cam rip for memes on social media. Spoiling everything too. They're just like, oh yeah, this guy's in the movie. Who cares? Like everybody's just seeing. We're not gonna not spoil things. So then we cut to the movie theater. He's even smoking the exact same. Like it's credit to the animators

that they did the rack focus or you know the different levels of focus on the movie screen versus Sideshow Bob smoking the cigar. Like that is not easy, not easy to do, like as you actually have to animate it like twice as hard to fake how physically filming that space works. Though they're not watching Problem Child, they're watching Ernest Goes Somewhere Cheap, which is, they really didn't like Ernest movies back then. No, I think it's because of this joke Ernest had to go direct to video right after this.

Scared Stupid was the previous year, oh sorry, yeah two years before. No, that's right, cause Scared Stupid used, yeah, it was like the last theatrical one that they, he was no longer getting movies at Disney, he was having to make them at New Line and then get down to that. I think we were all too mean to Ernest.

I don't know, we love Ernest because we were kids growing up with them and these were writers who were like in their 20s and 30s when Ernest got big. So of course they think he's like crappy. They didn't care that he saved Christmas. Wasn't also the origin of Ernest that he was like in a local commercial

and it just went that version of viral? Yeah, he was a local commercial guy and just grew over time to like, he did it for a regional dairy and then people just love him so much like, can he do my commercial? Can he do this commercial? That's so crazy. I rented a very confusing video as a kid where I had seen all the Ernest movies and I was like, oh what's this? And it is just a compilation of all of his commercials and I had no context as why is Ernest telling me about the cool taste of Slice? Why is Ernest telling me about reruns of the Beverly Hillbillies? I mean Vern is present, I understand the relationship

but I don't know what I can do with this information. Vern just came into a lot of money and he knows how to spell it. Verne just came into a lot of money and he knows how to spell it, sell it, spend it. Now Mike, how important are public libraries to filming somewhere cheap? You know, again, it depends on the locality and what their rules are. Usually pretty good, but it depends on how much they want you there, it depends on if they have to shut down or anything. Usually pretty good. Usually pretty good because usually public spaces

are more excited to have a film crew that'll take care of the space than having to actually work that day. You know, I live in Vancouver and I'm used to seeing bars I like, coffee shops I like, restaurants I like, all being locked down for filming. Not once have I seen our library locked down for filming. Nobody's writing a scene where the Flash and Supergirl fight somebody in a library.

Mm-mm. That'd be cool though. There's also a lot of continuity you have to kind of keep track of in the library, I bet. That makes sense. Yeah, I could see. So then, after movie theater, not only is it posed the same for Sideshow Bob, but it's also the, like, the exact shot of Nick Nolte tapping

him on the shoulder to ask him to quit when he's... Nick Nolte is not smoking a giant cigar from the Knoxville World's Fair. I'm explaining the joke, but it's a great twist that Homer is more annoying than the villain. Oh, that is too much. And see, Nick Nolte, he tried to be the nice guy. Instead, he should have like been more annoying to Max Katie is what he should have been like that. Then they didn't just piss him off and push him away. But yes, this is when the confrontation comes in and we get to the the catchphrase for all Sideshow Bob episodes.

That man is so rude. Yeah. If you don't mind, we're trying to watch the movie. Help me get my head out of this toilet! AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH SHI-CHO-BOB! You wrote me those letters. You awful man! Stay away from my son! Oh, I'll stay away from your son all right. Stay away forever.

Oh no! Wait a minute. That's no good. Oh. Son, all right. Stay away forever. No! Wait a minute, that's no good. Oh. Wait, I've got a good one now. Marge, say, stay away from my son again. No! So, Ed's so great,

because Max Caty has a line for everything in both versions. Like, he's like, ooh, you're messed up in both versions. Like he's like, oh, you missed them now, counselor. But it's like Sideshow Bob screws up his first intimidating lie. We actually got our first Sideshow Bob in Black Widower. Yeah, it's when he takes off his hat, right, to reveal that he's he's been or Selma's date. Yeah. I mean, the confrontation is his outfit is exactly the same and that I like to they do wrap up plot

Wise the Bart learns that it was sideshow Bob who was sending him all those letters like he's like, oh was you doing it? So Bart knows now too. And yeah, the Knoxville world's fair knock You know we we tell you more stories about that in in Bart on the road in the the in the spring break episode when they visit the old Wigsphere. But yeah, the stay away forever is so great. He just leaves. And then we go to his workout montage, which they use the opening shot from the movie, except it's shots of Bart's face instead of posters of Stalin slash comic book covers. Specifically, Captain Marvel number 53, where Captain Marvel teams up with the Black Bolt. You know I had to look that up as soon as I watched the movie. I was like, oh wait, what comic is that from?

It's a it's a Gil Kane drawing, so it shows that Max Catie loves specifically Captain Marvel comics. It's how you know he's a degenerate, right? Oh man, if he had lived to see Brie Larson take over the role of Captain Marvel, I don't think he'd be very happy at that, old Max Catie. But yeah, I love his ouch man tattoo. I have a list of Simpsons tattoos I wouldn't be against having. I wouldn't get a full back one, but that wouldn't be bad to get on like your arm or leg or whatever. These are also disappearing tattoos. And I think it's, I think it's because of this movie that, uh, people think so in the Cape Fear remake, he does have love and hate on his

knuckles, right? No, no, that's from Night of the, that's from Night of the Hunter. Okay. Because I know it's from Night of the Hunter, but I remember them putting them on De Niro's Knuckles because in the Seinfeld parody It's cuz uncle Leo who's lifting the weights and he has like hello written on his knuckles, right? Man now, maybe does have him. I didn't notice the the knuckle tats in that movie I gotta look I'm gonna Google this real quick But but yeah, I always thought it was just them mixing up the Night of the Hunter one, which is a different scary Robert Mitchum thing. Robert Mitchum is a scary guy and also was great at playing scary people too.

So yeah, I think it's this and the Seinfeld parody that Make people think the love and hate tattoos are in Cape Fear, but it is Night of the Hunter. I'm glad we settled this. Night of the Hunter is great too. Actually, it's a, Night of the Hunter is better than 62 Cape Fear. They're both great, but, uh, oh yeah, absolutely. If you want to be terrified by scary man, Robert Mitchum, then watch both back to back. I think he has a higher body count in Night of the Hunter too, I think. If we're counting, yeah, if we're counting body counts here, they, it's so, I mean, that's part of the thing that I both love, but also judge slightly for the 91 version. It almost feels like Scorsese going, Oh, we got an R rating now so we can cover this in blood. People can just say the

F word all the time. Like it, it can be full of swears, blood and more intense sexuality than they were allowed under the Hayes code that sometimes it feels like like, all right, okay, I get it. I get it. But it is such a silly movie that I kind of the the over-topness of the R rating works to I have to admit it in his exercising though, his workout to the other like jazzercise that is so fun. I love especially the way he's posing to have these crazy huge feet in weird proportions doing aerobics like that. It looks so funny. Like the animators did such a great

job on that. We cut back home and they're setting up fishing wire all over the house. Another very direct reference to it. Long scene in the movie. Yeah. Joe Don Baker rules in the movie. I like how sweaty and sleazy he is. And I love his high ball of Pepto Bismol and Jack Daniels. That is so good. I didn't. Yeah. I forgot Joe Don Baker was in the movie. He is so awesome. I mean, if you want somebody to play a drunk former cop, who's going to break the law and brutalize people, that is Joe Don Baker. Like he is so good at it. I like to think he simply was playing his character Mitchell from his Mystery Science Theater film and except he had been drummed out of the

force and now is a private eye in Florida. I love when he's dead and they're slipping on the blood in the kitchen. It is like a physical comedy scene. Yes. Spoilers, he dies in the film. No, it's also like the film could come off. Both films can come off as very conservative in that one of their points is like the bad guys have more rights than the good people now and the police won't help you against the bad people, that kind of thing. But Joe Don Baker's character basically has a speech about like states rights are good and the dang Yankees came against the Confederacy and we got to stand up to this guy now is like oh okay you're making it clear that Joe Don Baker's character is like an old racist. Yeah everyone sucks in that movie except for the wife I mean the the daughter's brain is not finished developing so I'll give her a pass too.

Yeah Wigum basically is playing Joe Don Baker here explaining Castle Doctrine and how in the movie it's fishing line around a bear to show when doors open. Here it's around a Krusty doll. And this is where he explains how Castle Doctrine works, except you can't invite him in. So this, well here I'll play the clip, but this also had a big deleted scene too. Now Sideshow Bob can't get in without me knowing. And once a man is in your home, anything you do to him is nice and legal. Is that so?

Oh Flanders, won't you join me in my kitchen? Hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe friend! No. Oh, you're mean. Great ga- that is implying he's about to rough him up like they do in the movie, except it's just him like, pathetically begging. That's one of my favorite jokes in the entire episode. Because it's such a childish joke. It is. Who is this character designed to look like?

Were they saying Sinatra or something? Yeah, well he honestly looks a little like Mitchum to me a little bit, I think. Or like Mitchum in 1992. But it's hard to put... he doesn't exactly look like Joe Don Baker, even though his intro is framed just like Joe Don Baker's intro in the movie of pouring whiskey into a glass. He's like your first shot of the guy. Yeah, he does look like an older Mitchum.

But yeah, he and Wiggum are sharing Mitchell duties in this parody. It's so, so great. But yes, in the middle here was a deleted scene, which would have been an even more specific reference to the craziest thing that happens in the 91 movie. Yeah. And there is an animation mistake in this scene. So I feel like that's why they they took it out so visually to explain the clip Homer goes downstairs as Wigam is standing guard and he sees that wigam is eating a sloppy Joe and he asks him why? Where'd you get that sloppy Joe?

You're made gotta for me. Consuelo. You're a lifesaver Yep, don't know what we do me. Consuelo, you're a lifesaver. Yup, don't know what we'd do without old Consuelo. Good old Consuelo. AHHHH! WE DON'T HAVE A MAID! Yeah, in the movie, in the remake, De Niro's version of Max Kady is a master of disguise. He masquerades as the school drama teacher and as their maid.

It's insane, yeah. He's a cartoon comic supervillain. Really? Like he's all the Mitchum guy does is show up and go, I'm just drinking a beer, ain't no log in it. It's a public street, isn't it? And then when it comes to like time to kill, it's like, okay, I will now strip to the waist and swim over here and stab them. Like that's my plan.

Like he doesn't have a very involved plan. Like the reveal of Robert De Niro's Max Cady wearing a wig and a dress to strangle a man to death, that's as big as Heath Ledger dressed as a nurse as the Joker. Like it's just as big. It is adding some dark comedy to what was originally a joyless film. There is no fun to be had, no levity at all in the original Cape Fear. This it is a lot

funnier, yes I would agree. It's so silly. Also it's great right before he strangled to death, Joe Don Baker's character tells the story like, oh yeah, I drank Pepto with Jim Beane because that's what my daddy drank. And he did it all. And he's gonna have to tell a whole story about how his dad was a drunken cop too. But then he gets strangled to death.

I also love how Nick Dulty picks up the piano wire he strangled with like, it's the piano wire. It was missing for the like, yeah, that's, it's. We get it. We, that you didn't need that. But yeah, the, the, the reveal of sideshow Bob poorly wearing a wig to pretend to be Consuela is the reference to him pretending to be the, they're made in the movie who it's just like when you see the dog at the start of both versions, you're like, oh boy,

that dog, nothing's gonna good happen to that dog in this movie. When you see the maid at the start of this movie too, you're like, uh-oh, uh-oh, no good future for this maid. Fortunately, Santa's little helper turns out fine in this episode. Yeah, they don't try to parody that element of the film. They could have easily made a joke where it's like, oh no, he's sick. It's like, no, he's not. You just ate some garbage or I don't know. Something a funny man in 1992 would write.

So this is when they finally start taking it seriously. They go to the witness protection program. They're gonna get set up with a new life and they, this is after Sideshow Bob makes his pronouncement. He's gonna only kill Bart or he's just not to kill everybody else on the street except for Bart. He won't name Bart directly. They then go the witness protection program and they're going to get, uh, they, they cut past all the part where side show Bob doesn't sue Bart for a restraining order. They don't do that. That's another hilarious scene in the movie where Gregory Peck is playing the defendant of Max Cady going like, this man is, like he's, he's like celebrating,

like thank you judge for the justice has been served. But Homer has decided he wants to be John Elway, which the joke only makes sense if you only know about the preceding Super Bowls and not the two that come after it where John Elway does very good in those Super Bowls. Because the joke is that in the 1990 Super Bowl, the Broncos lost to the 49ers 55 to 10. And so their joke here is that when Homer becomes John Elway, they lose to the 49ers again 56 to 7 But John Elway did really good at the end of the game for one touchdown I didn't know that context but it is still funny that Homer is just excited to have points on the board By the end of the game. Also if I'm not wrong, isn't he wearing a different football uniform than the rest of them?

He's a leatherhead. Yeah. Yeah The rest are modern but yes, John Elwayway would go on to win several Super Bowls, but this is a joke about how he lost three Super Bowls before this. And you know who he won his final Super Bowl against? The Atlanta Falcons. It was that reference, they were talking about that Super Bowl in that Simpsons episode with the Super Bowl.

Which Mike, I was thinking to you with that joke because that joke is about how you can't count on current events and you gotta change things. It's gotta be tough right now writing jokes about current events for late night, huh? Yeah, yeah. Well, I'm currently, I left my last late night job in January to finish a book, so I'm not there now.

But that, definitely in my head I was like, I'm okay sitting a lot of this election of the late night cycle. It's tough, though, because like I've like I've been on the set of something like The Tonight Show when they start shooting at five and then there's some insane new story at five thirty where we'll finish the show while we're writing new stuff and then go back and do a new monologue in front of an audience that has already seen a monologue. Wow. So even up to the last minute, you're doing stuff like that.

I really pity, you know, one of the times I most pitied an audience was or the team on one of those things was when the Colbert Show did their live 2016 election night thing that they wrote. They wrote a Hillary wins bunch of sketches that were falling apart live in real time. I only watched it the one time when it aired. Apparently, I wasn't at Samantha Bee in 2016 and apparently they did something similar. So when Kristen Bartlett and I were head writers in 2020, we did it as a Wayne's World parody

because we're like, we're gonna shoot three endings and we'll just edit this however it turns out. And that way we at least have a framework from which we can work no matter what happens. Fortunately, we have not made any pronouncements about this election on this episode, so we won't have to edit anything if we want. But of course, Homer's fantasy is cut short

and they decide they have new names that most of the family learns quickly. I'll be Gus, the lovable chimney sweep. Clean as a whistle, sharp as a thistle. Best in all Westminster. Yeah. Shut up, boy. We have places your family can hide in peace and security.

Cape Fear, Terror Lake, New Horror Field, Screamville. Ooh, Ice Creamville. No, Screamville. Ah! Tell you what, sir. From now on, you'll be Homer Thompson at Terror Lake. Let's just practice a bit. When I say, hello, Mr. Thompson, you'll say, hi.

Check. Hello, Mr. Thompson. Remember now, your name is Homer Thompson. I got you. Hello, Mr. Thompson....... Now when I say hello, Mr. Thompson, and press down on your foot, you smile and nod. No problem. Hello, Mr. Thompson.

I think he's talking to you. God, I remember loving this joke so much as a kid that when we first got the internet, it is one of the first video clips I downloaded just on some random Simpsons site, some quick time thing that took probably half a day. I think he, like the whispered, I think he's talking to you. Like this is a new low of Homer's stupidity, which speaks to a team who's like,

well, this is our last dumb Homer joke. Like, let's go so big with it. I love the story on the commentary that they, like, this was just expanded and expanded in the room by, acted out by Conan O'Brien and Mike Reese together. Mike, have you done bits in the room that just grow and grow and end up being much longer or, like, over time? I mean, most of President president show was that way.

There's definitely times at late night shows where you'll be messing around. And then someone's like, and you hear this about us and all the time where you're like, I don't want to pitch this. This is this is for me. And then they're like, just pitch it. And then that becomes the thing. Like, I once had this bit on Fallon. This was a long time ago. This was when I was there the first time where some news story

where Leonardo DiCaprio won like nine thousand dollars for basically some lawsuit against a French newspaper that said he got a woman pregnant. And he did. And I remember at the time talking to people in the room being like, nine thousand dollars is a lot of money for anyone but Leonardo DiCaprio. And so I started doing a bit where I was just pretending to be Leonardo DiCaprio, being like, I'm going to buy a TV and a couch and I'm going to get an Xbox and ladies are going to come over. And then like, so I was like, why don't you write that down? So it definitely does happen. That's fun. That's good. And that went and that was actually

on the air to my surprise a bit where it was just called Leonardo Caprio has $9,000 and it was just him just talking way too long about it the stopping on the foot as Homer does nothing is our I also You know underrated that shot is the family They're not upset with it. They're just like more. They're like well, of course he doesn't get this And he's trying a good faith. That's the other thing is like he's like got it like like you he's trying and he can't get it Also the list of places, you know, Terror Lake, NewScream feel like that. It's based on, you know, who would live in a place called Cape Fear. But when I watched the making of supplemental stuff that's on the 62 Blu-ray, Gregory Peck

is saying that's why he like, because he was a producer on the film too. And he says he chose to rename it Cape Fear because he had been to that area in North Carolina and Wilmington and he's like, no, that's a real place and it's a fun, that would be a great name for the movie. I love the list of names for these cities. I especially love this time around New Horror Field, which is implying there is also Horror Field. That is great, yes.

That's so great. Also, isn't it great that they, they could have called this episode Terror Lake because that's where they end up staying, but they call it Cape Fear with an E at the end of it to make it a parody. That's so great. It's another one of those,

are you going to fire us decisions? The joke is we're not being too clever. Actually Mike, another, another of the, the professional writer questions I have is like for stuff like that of adding the E to the end or, or how they had McBain and then they changed McBain into to Rainier Wolf Castle and stop doing McBain action riffs. Cause there was the McBain movie that sent him a cease and desist. Like, where do you feel like parody is at these days?

Or do you feel like networks are more trepidatious or less compared to 30 years ago? More. They're definitely more. And that has just been at least been explained to me by lawyers as there has been more of a trend towards companies being more vigilant about it. I think that has more to do with like YouTube and stuff than it does like other cartoons and other movies, you know, just being like, OK, you've ripped us off

entirely. A lot of this stuff, though, goes through the lawyers like you'll get like, especially with an episode title, you might have this 20 email conversation where literally I could imagine something like this, them being like, well, could you call it like cape scary? And they're like, what if we call it Cape Fear, but to ease? And they're like, well, what if you do like that is the level of negotiation you get down to with these things. Like, for example, I wrote this bit for John Ham for Fallon, and it was serious, dramatic readings of Christmas songs, which is pretty straightforward. But like even doing a little bit of a song or doing a parody of a Christmas song, which is pretty straightforward. But like, even

doing a little bit of a song or doing a parody of a Christmas song, if it's a popular one, goes down to like individual words, whether or not you say it's a parody at some point, whether or not you hint it's a parody, like the lawyers take it super seriously. Well, I mean, I get it. People don't want to get sued. That makes sense. Like, yeah. Yeah. And companies love suing. That's the other problem is people don't want to get sued that may it makes sense like yeah Yeah, and companies love suing that's the other problem is people don't want to be sued and a company can't wait to see so after they Assumedly at some point Homer realizes he's Homer Thompson and they they're able to move on and They are gifted with a fancy red convertible, which is that's the car that

De Niro drives through the movie. So that they're driving that car. It also becomes a I love Lucy parody because they have the convertible in that too. Specifically the season four episode California Here We Come, you can look at the clip online. They're singing California Here We Come. Ricky is driving, Fred Mertz is in the back seat. They both have the hats on. That's why they're both wearing the hats

in the scene where they start driving off. It's great. In the middle of all of this, as they're singing Gilbert and Sullivan songs, they're also doing the, I imagine, I haven't seen that clip in forever, but they're even singing California Here I Come when they're doing that driving scene, right?

Yeah, yeah. They're singing the song. Yeah, they're gifted, not just the convertible, but also the FBI Light Opera Society sings the complete Gilbert Insolvent. So nobody says this, and it's not like this episode needs to make like plot sense, but this would explain how Bart knows the songs

for the end of the episode. Like technically this makes plot sense. And I know that this probably isn't the connection, but like I always think about the NORAD track Santa Christmas album. And so I'm like, how many government agencies actually might have had like little little albums they release here or there? I could see it. I could see it. Now Gilbert and Sullivan, I only know through jokes and parodies and things like this, like Animaniacs. Until this occasion, I have not actually watched a full, maybe I watched a film version of Pirates of Penzance on TV, but other than that, I have not engaged with an actual Gilbert and Sullivan performance before this last week.

Yeah, because of this episode, last year I saw a performance of the HMS Pinnifor. So I should be expensing that. I don't know Canadian tax code, but it should get on your taxes somehow. Yeah, it was really good. It's very long, by the way. And all the songs sound the same,

because they had a certain routine that they like to do. But yeah, I did enjoy finally seeing it the only thing that was a bit weird about it is they try to address certain dated things in the play by having characters give little asides about it and I thought like you don't need to do this I know this play is from the late 19th century I understand things were different then but there'd be little sides like isn't this a little weird and All the people know we don't hit her. I think there was even like a Trump reference or something. I was like

Oh, no Just just have someone come out in front of the audience at the start and do what you do on old Warner Brothers DVDs Where you're like some stuff here ain't that good, but we ain't changing it. Have a fun time But at the end of watching it I had to like, so that guy married his cousin, right? And like, yes, yes, he does. No, but this, they're singing instead from the Mikado here with the three little girls from school, right, Bob? You also just watched the movie, a movie about this.

Yeah, Topsy Turvy, great movie from the late 90s about Gilbert and Sullivan, their working relationship and the production of the Mikado. One of them, either Gilbert or Sullivan, is like one of the first weebs where he's just enchanted by Japan and he wants to write a musical about it. And the very long film is about their status at the time, how they were viewed, and just how long it took to put one of these on and all of the mechanics that went on behind the scenes. Now, Mike, as we learned from Aaron Sorkin, Studio 60, parody a Gilbert and Sullivan song is the height of comedy. So you must have done that a few times

in writing for Late Night. I feel like, here's the thing is I became a professional comedy writer after that show was already off the air. And so by the time I was in late night rooms, the idea to pitch a Gilbert and Sullivan parody was itself a joke. Where you'd just be like, I don't know, what if we do a Studio 60 bit?

It was already a cliche by the time I started. But it's always funny because it's such a basic thing to parody. Again, going back to 1950s educational videos, it feels like Gilbert and Sullivan. There's a certain number of tropes in comedy where you're like, we're out of ideas. Let's do modern major general. And fortunately, it's in the public domain too. So yeah, yeah, that's the other, that's the other thing about it. That is the other thing I'll say about parody law is when you notice a lot of parodies are public domain songs, there's a reason for that. That's a news radio. Their parody of public domain songs is one of the funniest things ever of that.

Bill McNeil, Phil Hartman's character gets a piano and he only sings public domain songs or parodies public domain songs. I think the episode is even called In the Public Domain, I think it is. Also this parodies another insane thing from Cape Fear, which when I rewatched Cape Fear I was like, oh, it's a joke in this movie, too

Yeah, I can't believe the remake invented how Max Cady gets around by strapping himself to the undersides of cars I mean I think of anything that became iconic to the point where I see it in other things now not as a parody just like Oh, that was a good creepy idea It's it's truly insane because in the 62 version basically the private eye the Joe Don Baker type in that it was played by Telly Savalas but he has hair it's so distracting it's not sticking around for very long but so in that Robert Mitchum just is able to shake Telly Savalas He's able to avoid being tracked in this case though Robert De Niro Ties himself under their car as they drive away for for at least 12 hours

He's under the car and it is it is an intentionally funny scene Where he gets himself out from under the car as Sideshow Bob does too. And when he gets out from under it, there's like a wild take by or like a bystander sees him and just has like a comedy take at him coming out from under the car and he just throws away the belt that he was tied up to and goes into a bathroom to clean himself up and it's a joke. Like it is a comedy scene, but they play this perfectly of him asking to like he just says no well three against one.

Before he's scolded by coffee. Oh so good. Oh also another little animation bit I love when they're singing along to the three little maids from school when Homer says every everything is a source of fun and he starts laughing like he kind of he has like the eyeball pop that they start getting rid of at this point that is so funny they I love that little bit they stopped doing so we start act three act three I only have a couple clips for because it's a very action-heavy act three but the opening parody of the show, it becoming the Thompson's great bit. Love that. Uh, and the, the, in general, the writers of the show love houseboats. Like you can make a super cut that's 10 minutes long from

all of Simpson's of jokes about houseboats. They are cool. They, they love the movie has the joke of like Lisa tries to solicit help from Captain Macalester and the sea captain drives off in what's revealed to be not just a regular house but a houseboat. Or when they face off with the Judge Judy character Judge Constance Harm, she lives in a houseboat which Homer thinks is so cool. Also Homer wearing the witness relocation t-shirt. That's so good. Another just very great understated joke. So funny. That's like the implication of the opening and then revealing them is they're almost

imagining their arrival as if they're going to be there forever and then they cut to them. This is the new status quo from here on out. This show is called the Topsins and always will be. Also this and as a little kid, I love this too. I'm like, did they move their entire lives out here and have to move back? I recognize cartoon logic is cartoon logic, but as a little child, it actually distressed me that they had to move twice.

They explode the show for this. Like it's a, and yes, Looney Tunes style. He gets out from under the car car just like Max Cady does, and then we have a long scene which, I mean I have the full 32 seconds of it I could play, but maybe I'll just have the editor I'm doing here. Yes, we saw a you know the earlier version of this joke with a dental plan Lisa needs braces So this is not entirely new for the show, but they're running short and Al Jean is working with the editor To make the show run a bit longer Adding more of the rake stepping and the rake hitting Bob in the face

And then it was Sam Simon's idea to make it go on so long That the viewer would not know if it would end to the point where it becomes funny again So I don't I don't think they invented this joke But I think they they they put on display the version most people had seen for the first time. It's wonderful. It's like double length. It cycles twice. It will be funny just once. The way he, in the big wide shot of him surrounded by rakes, that he then dutifully steps. It's like he's choosing to step on two more rakes. But then repeating that makes it even better. I feel like as written he was supposed to walk one way, step on one rake, walk another

way, step on another rake and that was it. But the fact that he's returning to the same rakes, and then it just goes on. I always forget how long it goes on. And then when it cuts to the inside of the house, technically it's still continuing. You're hearing the girls. I mean too, they have, Kelsey Grammer gave them a perfect grumble, which they had used from previous versions. And they could just playing the same sound over and over again.

I mean, God, it's like, yes, Mike, I'm sure in your experience you've doubled up scenes or Extended them like that Absolutely, where you just where you want to stretch it out as long as you can definitely But it's always but that is a battle like cuz you're sort of like there's always someone who wants to cut everything down I think you know with the Simpsons you have a lot of examples of like they need to stretch things out But there are times when you'll be like, you know, this The Simpsons, you have a lot of examples of like they needed to stretch things out. But there are times when you'll be like, no, this joke needs to sit. We cannot cut away. Because if you did that joke, the original way like that, we're talking about where it's like one rake, the other rake walk away.

It's a good gag. But you really do need to sit on it for 30 seconds for it to work. And that's usually the battle is keeping it that long. You know, I bet since they had already decided we are gonna do a full parody of the 1991 remake of this movie Then they're also thinking, you know And if we're if we're not caring about the audience buying into that or not Then we don't need to care if they're gonna get impatient with it with 32 seconds And then when they cut into the house, this is when it hit me this time that it's like

Oh, they're also alluding to the dog killing from Cape Fear 2 where Marge is saying, oh, where's the dog? Which fortunately Sans little helper, well, I do, that one, you talk about what stresses you out watching it as a kid. That made me feel like, oh, Sans little helper's gonna drown, like he's about to tie himself

around the thing. Oh no. You see him safely hog tied at the end of the episode. episode. Yes. He made it out. And the cat too. You know I think it was a smart choice in the remake they don't give you the dead dog on screen in the 91 version they just tell you that the dog died in the in the 62 version you see the dead dog in in both versions they let you know like oh yeah he definitely killed the dog though though that it makes it even scarier to the like when Julia Lewis is told like, Oh, I didn't hurt your dog.

She's like, see, he didn't say he said he didn't hurt the dog. Like she believes him. Unlike the perfect daughter of the 62 version who's just hates him intently from the beginning. So we then cut to the perfectly fine public street and they frame it exactly like early in the movie when Max Cady drives up to Nick Nolte in his convertible. Yeah, I mean, I just love this joke

because it's implying that he just gets around this way now. He doesn't need to. Yeah. He just become, he's become comfortable with the idea of strapping himself to the underside of a car. He knows no other way to live. And just the same as Max Cady is just like, this is a public street officer, I don't think anything's wrong with this.

But this time he gets stepped out. Oh, I also love that Bart's walking to school with an apple and his book's tied up in a strap. It's just like Pinocchio. Yeah. Yeah. It's wonderful. And again, so funny. He gets fucking stepped on by six elephants in a row. It's so good. Hey, animators draw a parade for 45 seconds. That references Hannibal crossing the Alps word by word. And that, yeah, that does. But that is in the the 91 movie. There's a big parade scene.

So I guess that's also what they're checking the box on with parodies. But the way they draw Sideshow Bob's head being crushed is so like it's so cartoony and amazing. I love it. Then we see Bart run away. And the way he's like shimmying back and forth is so great, too I love the animation on that and though of course Homer thinks it's not a big deal Yeah, it feels like this this scene is missing a joke, but it's Homer's callousness is fine

And then to mix parodies here we cut to the Bates Motel for some reason That it's filmed exactly the same as like with the same style of angles from from Hitchcock. You have the owls watching over him in the shot. And speaking of universal, Bob, you and I walked by a perfect recreation of the Bates Motel when we visited as well. That's right. In the car where a woman's corpse may be. We didn't open the trunk and we got a pictures we all me you and Nina We got our pictures taken in front of the facade of the baits home as well Though sadly I saw other people got to meet Norman Bates like came out and Norman Bates came out for pics at it

We didn't get Norman Bates for our photo ops Oh, yeah Sometimes the guy will come out of when they used to do the trolley tour the guy would come out of the house and walk Towards you as the trolley moved every time I've been on that tour the base guy would come out of the house and walk towards you as the trolley moved away. Every time I've been on that tour, the Bates guy has come out, but this time Doc Brown was waiting for us. Can you believe 60 years of Universal Studios? It's fantastic! I can only talk like this for 20 seconds! Get your tram up to 88 miles per hour, or eight miles per hour.

Oh actually, Mike, you'll be happy to learn that somebody you've written for, Ted, also greeted us with a happy 60th anniversary of the tram tour. When, when? Yeah! What was Ted like behind the scenes? Is he a womanizer?

Pfft. Ha ha ha ha. Was Ted singing a lot? He sure seems like he sings a lot in his movies, but no, okay But but Yeah, so after we we cut to sideshow Bob We then get another of like the funniest things the Simpsons has ever done Roman numeral three. Surprise boy in bed. And disembowel him.

No, I don't like that bowel in there. Got him. Ah, limojuice. Brownie wants a brownie before you go to bed? Ah! Ah, let me cut you a brownie while they're still hot. Dad, I'm kind of edgy right now. I'd appreciate you not coming in my room screaming and brandishing a butcher knife.

Why? Oh, right. This title pub thing. I'm sorry, boy. Right, this tight old bob thing. I'm sorry, boy. Come on, do you wanna see my new chainsaw and hockey mask? Ah! Oh, sorry, what am I thinking? So they credit that to Conan, especially his act outs. Like the big, that feels exactly like a Conan act out.

I'm sure he jumped up on a table or a couch and was brandishing an invisible chainsaw. Getting right in somebody's face, but not just is it a great Conan act out you can imagine, but the animators did this so good. Like the change in color, the shading on Homer, the angles, the Bart scream, like it all, the animation makes this like truly next level. Like I love, but just, and Dan Kesslin in his delivery of, what's it going to be for you? Like so great, so great. Everything is just perfect in here. And again, I love that Homer's coming from a place of kindness. He's trying, he wants to, he wants to give Bart brownies. He wants to show off his fun new things like in the reality of the show Homer's just being nice What was I thinking like he really he kisses his forehead. He wants to

Yeah, so after this then it's it's a whole lot of action, but it's We see just like in the movie. They climbs onto the boat and he cuts the cord and the boat is let loose. And then he confronts him ready to kill him. The whole family is tied up, just like how Nick Nolte is tied up. Though Homer falls asleep, which Nick Nolte is knocked unconscious,

or no, he's choked unconscious. Yeah, Marge's mild annoyance in this horrifying scene is really great. Yes, no he hasn't. And so Bart, again, in a great time killing, just like the Rakes, Bart looks at two sides, he sees the Gator on one, then the Eel on the other, then they repeat the animation of him running

to the Gator side, he's like, oh yeah, all right. Like, god, so funny right. All right. God. So funny too. So then comes the biggest time killer of all, but it is, if you, this is their golden rule, we've said it many times when they were writing it, if you put in a song, it doesn't get cut in rewrites because it's a bunch of words,

you don't have to cut or rewrite. It's just, this is the song. But they said it came in kind of late. Like it sounded like it actually did come in like in a rewrite or something. Yeah, it sounds like the third act was rewritten. And then the ending was again rewritten by some of the season five staff. They weren't completely specific about which parts though, but it seems like act three was a big rewrite. They credited a bit to Sam Simon being a fan of Gilbert and Sullivan. And they pull out, in the last 30 years, if anybody for some reason thinks of the HMS

Pinafore, they must be thinking of this reference. Of their musicals, it's not like an obscure one, right? But it's not Pirates of Penzance or even the Mikado. Yeah. I think it's in the top three though. Okay. Yeah. Okay.

Yeah, I mean, maybe this popularized it for an entire generation and maybe that helped. But I don't remember hearing it before this, but after this, I remember seeing it in other things, the songs from this. And they did write it partially because Kelsey Grammer is a great singer. Like Mike, I'm sure you've had like times where, oh, a guest is a great singer, let's write a scene for this person. Yeah, you'll also get, the funnier thing is

when you get a musician and they're like, they do not want to sing, do not write a song. And you're like, got it, got it, got it, got it. You know, they, on the very great comedy Bang Bang show, the TV version, I had heard, they wrote a sketch when Kid Cudi was the cohost for a year of it. They wrote one sketch where it's him singing a bunch of songs of a bunch of classic Motown songs and he sang them because he's like yeah this is cool but then when they wrote another sketch

where it's like okay like let's do another singing sketch. He's like, well, that's not cool. I don't wanna sing these songs. They gotta rewrite the songs. I know this was very stressful for the writers because they only got Kelsey Grammar for a limited amount of time. He wasn't at the table read. Apparently when you get him, he has to be out before lunch

because he's very in demand. He's gotta go film Money Plane 2. He's gotta brew his faith-based beer. Boy, I hope with seemingly that new Frasier is a hit and maybe he doesn't have to do as many Money Planes these days. And also, stop giving interviews, Kelsey Grammer. That'd be my tip to him.

I think they're going to fly a Money Plane to David Hyde Pierce's mansion and try to get him back on the show. That's the only way it'll happen. Didn't they, they did, I thought I heard for the next season they got back somebody. Like didn't they get Perry Gilpin or something for the new season, I think I heard.

Yeah, I think Perry Gilpin and Jane Leaves maybe are back for one episode each or something like that. Well, and also like VD said in our interview, like Kelsey, Grammer, like when you're on a live action sitcom, even if you're in the same city, you can't just set aside a day if it's if it's filming time for for your sitcom even if you're like he was on Cheers a supporting actor you're still pretty busy and but yeah the the the HMS Pinafore I finally watched a full version of it that's on YouTube it's a I believe 2005 Australian

performance of it that's it's pretty big's a, I believe 2005 Australian performance of it. It's pretty big budget and full of good singers. It is a fun story about class in the haughty British society and they really do sing all of these songs in the order that they are sung in the movie, or in this episode. So it's accurate to that extent too. Oh, Bob, what was your favorite song from seeing it live? Oh I'm unprepared to answer this but maybe the last song. It is it is a lot of fun I do like I like the duet between Buttercup and Joseph I

think that's a fun silly duet between those two characters. Well hardly ever made me laugh pretty good because the joke line in it, oh by the way the Australian one I watched on YouTube is helpful because it has subtitles, so sometimes I couldn't follow all of the lyrics that are being sung in very high falsetto, but when he's in Hardly Ever, he says he hardly ever uses the big big D, which that's funny now for different reasons than the word damn, which that's funny now for different reasons than the word damn, which that's what gets him in trouble at the end of the musical is saying the word damn. It's hard to call out one song because there are 21 songs.

It's a lot of songs. Yeah. Yeah. And they all kind of run together because a lot of the songs are a person describing themselves and the chorus just repeats what he says. That's true. And now I know what Deadeye Dick's from. Now I know, or Dick Deadeye,

I forget what his real, the character's name is. You know, pretty good Kurt Vonnegut novel too. That's my lock of the week. Yeah, I love, it was a fun musical, though the twist ending, the near-edipal twist ending of it, I won't give it away for folks, but it made me, in in first viewing go like well

This is ridiculous. And then I remembered this this is a satire. This is actually like very high satire. It should be ridiculous Yeah, a sideshow Bob's performance of Buttercup song gave me a different image of the character in my head She's actually a body a body woman. Yes. She is she is not as matronly as he plays Buttercup here. While you're at it, let's just drop it in, the full one minute, 40 second long parody of HMS Pinafore. Well Bart, any last requests? Well, there is one, but... Nah.

No, go on. Well, you have such a beautiful voice. There is one, but... Nah. No, go on. Well, you have such a beautiful voice. Guilty as charged. Uh-huh. Anyway, I was wondering if you could sing the entire score of the HMS Pinafore. Very well, Bart. I shall send you to heaven before I send you to hell.

And two, and three, and... We sail the ocean blue and our saucy ships of beauty. We are sober, man and true and attentive to our duty. I'm called Little Buttercup, Poor Little Buttercup, though I could never tell why. What never? No, never. What never? Oh, I could never tell why.

What never? No, never. What never? Hardly ever, he's hardly ever sick at sea. For he himself has said it, and it's clearly to his credit that he is an Englishman. He remains an Englishman. Now, it's funny too, because this is like, this is the ending of a Bugs Bunny cartoon. This is saying like, Oh, what's your one last request? Like, well, the a censored one from a classic Bugs Bunny cartoon is when he says, I wish I were in Dixie. Hooray, hooray. And then it turns into a minstrel show. You

don't see that one as much anymore, but that it's a similar joke is what I'm saying. But yeah, here is just guilty as charged. Like he's, he's just so full of himself. He sings it. And then just like in the 1991 movie, Bart is saved by mad, not magic, but like the river bends to hit a rock and messes up the boat and saves the day. I did feel like in the 91 version, Nick Nolte got saved by God a couple times in that movie. The 91 ending is so much better, and I love how long they stay on the goddamn boat.

I feel like there's one scene on the boat between Katie and Peg, I think the wife's name is, and then immediately they get off the goddamn boat. I feel like there's one scene on the boat between Katie and Peg, I think the wife's name is, and then immediately they get off the boat. I like how it's all happening in the boat and it's going down the rocky rapids and it's just so exciting and full of danger. They're trapped on the boat and you do feel the space of the boat so well. Though it is so silly when Max, Katie is talking to God as he's cross-examining It's so silly when Max Cady is talking to God as he's cross-examining Nick Nolte. The camera literally, I see the Evil Dead there, the camera cut to him looking up and then looking back down. It has the speed of Sam Raimi.

Any of the 62 version is kind of lame because it's Gregory Peck having to be the better man, so you're going to jail, Cady, and you're going to rot there." Instead of putting a bullet through his head like he deserves. Yeah, no, Nick Nolte, his character loses the moral ground, like, because he... More interesting. When, at the end of that movie, Gregory Peck could kill Robert Mitchum, but doesn't. In this case, Nick Nolte, he's got the big rock he's like I am going to bash your head in right here and Instead the water carries him away and he misses and then he drowns so God kills him instead But Nick Nolte knows I did stoop to that level and I would have killed him and he's like

Broken when they show like that. he does not have the moral superiority like he is he's a much more compromised guy which I think I agree makes him a lot more interesting than perfect Gregory Peck but in this case Homer has none of those questions and Bart just saves the day with by by killing time until they get to Springfield with with a three hour opera I imagine that in between those cuts we saw that he got an intermission which is when he got the playbill and the popcorn it's great how it escalates from props he could conceivably find on the boat to actual costumes and a flag oh that for the entire also when you see HMS pittifor you see it's also a musical that must be

expensive to do because you have to have about 40 extras on stage at all times like 20 men and 20 women it's singing along like I guess the one downside of watching it I don't know if this is the same for you Henry the the sets don't change you're just staring at a boat for three hours it's the same deck of the boat for the entire time. Yeah. But yeah, in the final song he sings, he remains an English man. That's very funny in context, because the song is about,

well, no matter what class is, he's English. And they go like, oh, and he chose to be born English instead of Russian or Italian or French, which nobody chooses how they're born that's the joke that's the it's it's a funny play on the the very strict English cast society. And a Pinafore is a ladies apron you would not name a ship after it har har. If we may explain 160 year old jokes instead of our normal explaining of 30 year old jokes. We're branching out everyone. Talking Pinafore coming next fall.

So the boat crashes, Bart's life is saved, and this is when Bob is arrested, and this was where a great final joke was added, apparently very late, which was the credit Jace Richdale for what Wiggum's explanation of how they're so luckily there Hold it right there Satchel Bob. You're under arrest

Yeah, it's a good thing to drift it by this brothel I Knew I had to buy some time So I asked him to sing the score from the HMS p Ooh, a plan fiendishly clever in its intricacies. Take him away, boys. Hey, I'm the chief here. Take him away, Toys. What'd you say, chief? Do what the kid says.

It's so good to be home again. Look what happened without my pills. Oh Bart run upstairs get grandpa's medicine. Not so fast. I want a quick this fair young maiden There's something you should know about me. I've got Steven 80 tickets. I'm all yours We missed the scene earlier, but there is a scene where we cut back to home and grandpa is at the door saying, you have my pills. Though his, I'm cold and there are wolves after me. That also has stuck with me.

Your wife used that in very funny context one time where you were coming over, Bob, to do a recording, but I had missed your message and that you needed to be let in because my intercom wasn't working. And then she let me know in a DM because I had missed yours and she said like, go help Bob, it's cold and there are turkeys after him. Oh yeah, wild turkey. Torkeys, turkeys, sorry.

Steve and Edie, actually the Steve and Steve and Edie just passed away in this year. So March 7th we lost the final member of the pop singing duo, Steve and Edie. RIP, that's too bad. I love the explanation that the cops are right there and in night robes because they were all in a brothel together. Not only do they go to brothels, but they also go together as a group. And yeah, this is a sequel to the Black Widower ending of Bart explaining everything to Wiggum

and they take him away or bake him away toys. So and yeah, I mean, perfect. I bet the original line was something like, oh, you woke us up with this or you crashed right by where we were sleeping and it was Jace Richdale who pitched the the brotha line. But yes Abe meanwhile has become a beautiful woman and I don't blame Jasper for wanting to take him out. Of course the entire ending is ADR over the credits. There was a much more elaborate ending that again I think it may be just because I'm not used to it that I prefer it but I wish they would have left this in as well. Yes, so I have the the clip of that as our final clip here. So the date extends after Jasper asks out Abe and they get in a boat built for two.

It won't be a stylish marriage. We can't afford a carriage. But you look sweet. Upon the seat of a bicycle built for two. So yes, the original ending was not the heart Iris out, which they love to do in the Jean Arise era, but instead them singing Daisy on a date together. It's so big and silly, though then again, it instead ends with an offscreen kiss. Like Abe kisses Jasper offscreen. And Abe is, I mean, this is the Abe cross-dressing era

of the show because we had the Queen of the Old West flashback, we had him as a cabaret singer during World War II, and in this deleted scene, he is wearing a very frilly, let's say 19th century dress. He looks like the woman in Butch Cassie in the Sundance Kid, I don't know if that's the reference they're going for. He's gone a-courting, he has many petticoats on, yes.

Yeah, it's a witch. And also them singing Daisy, it's very funny because the next year on The Critic, they just do this again in the episode where Jay Sherman dates Doris, well not doesn't date, but he comes better friends with. And they sing this song together in a similar scenario. They kept it in their pocket. But on The Critic, they sang Daisy because it's public domain, which is why Hal sings it in 2001. They originally in The Critic wanted to sing the songs from Harold

and Maude, which are not public domain. And I wonder if that was their plan here, or if the public domain boxed them into them singing Daisy again, though it fits more with both characters being very old singing Daisy. Yeah. Though I can't think of it not being sung by a computer, like in a joking manner. And so with a joke about Abe Simpson going on a date with his good friend Jasper, that's how the first era of The Simpsons ends. Like that is the end of the golden age. Like it feels so, you'd never noticed it as a kid. You didn't know production. You didn't know the names of episodes unless you were like staring a TV guide So you didn't know you were seeing the end of something but the next episode is the beginning of the new era under an entirely

New showrunner and with with some returning writers, but it just yeah It feels it feels special that they made it a sideshow Bob episode and that they'd sit on Sideshow Bob for almost two years of production before they finally returned to him with Sideshow Bob Roberts. Yeah, he sat out season five, production season five. And it's, yeah, I mean, it's a gorgeous episode. It's written by writers who are having a good time. The cast is at their top as well, like, and it's got their favorite guest star, I would say, in Kelsey Grammer, who's the star of The Simpsons Ride and an entire level of The Simpsons game.

That's how much they love working with them. So yeah, I mean, top 10 for me. Top 10 for me. Oh, absolutely. I love the animation, one of Rich Moore's best episodes. It's clear to see why he went on to be Supervising Director of Shows and work for Disney. And in terms of the comedy, I love how free they feel,

how cheap their jokes can be sometimes just for a cheap, like, gut laugh. And I really think this gave David Merkin and his writers permission to go even crazier because he loves humor. That's the type of humor that's in this episode specifically, and I feel like this gave them all permission to go even crazier. And seasons five and six get pretty wild,

and I can't wait to dig into those again. It's funny that we learn later that Merkin was told after, as he's working on the next season, don't go as crazy as some season four episodes, and he easily went crazier. But to think that his season was supposed to be getting grounded after the insanity of Cape Fear when it is entirely not that. But Mike, any final thoughts yourself? No, this is just such a great episode. And it's been one of my favorite episodes since I was a

little kid. And what I like about this is, you know, so much comedy when you get older, you're like, ah, I don't like this as much anymore. This episode just stays fun. And, you know, I think they when we talk about the the upsetting subject matter of the Cape Fear movies, that also shows like how smart they were. Like there were a lot of shows doing darker jokes with they were going to be parodying Cape Fear back then. But the Simpsons knew the right line to work on on this

while still parodying something. And it never feels like Toothless, I wouldn't say that, but they knew what would be funny and what wouldn't be in parodying moments from Cape Fear. Thank you, Mike Drucker, for being on the show. Please let us know where we can find you online and what you're working on these days. So you can find me online on most social media

at Mike Drucker or at Mike Drucker is dead. I have a book coming out next year called Good Game No Rematch which is a bunch of comedy essays about video games. I will probably be aggressively promoting it when it comes out but please look for that in 2025. Yeah you just you had a book out this year didn't you? Oh yeah I also had the official parody novelization of Plumbers Don't Wear Ties from Limited Run Games so that that is also available now to purchase if you're only gonna purchase one book I might say Good Game No Rematch but if you're looking for two books Plumbers Don't Wear Ties and Good

Game No Rematch. I will say if you're going for three books you can buy Bye Book 2 but you probably you already have if you're a listener I expected you to.. Mike you've been writing so many funny video game things lately you did an Assassin's Creed one pretty recently that was very... Yeah yeah no I wrote I wrote like a piece that was basically saying that like if people want to villainize someone for adding things in games they don't want I'll just I'll just be the villain and so I just made up things that I would be adding to video games to make people mad because I think the whole the whole concept that like a consulting company full of 20 year olds is the most powerful force in gaming Is probably not accurate. I I would think stock hole, you know major stockholders are not they might be doing it instead

Yeah, yeah Yeah It's probably the the corporate money people who don't necessarily have their hands on the games more than the people who are like Here's how to do a deaf character correctly. It's you know, but it's it's Tilting and windmills to try to convince people to be mad and like a rich guy over say a woman Very few shareholders have blue hair. So it's hard to get mad at them Okay, then that's what we need to do. We need to break into the homes of Okay, then that's what we need to do. We need to break into the homes of stockholders and dye their hair blue.

It will activate the worst people online to attack them. Parody, parody, jokes, jokes. Hey, there's nothing illegal about breaking into someone's home and dyeing their hair. Prove me wrong. It's perfectly legal, counselor. Yes, exactly. I'm just dye dying some hair. Where in the law book does it say I can't?

But thank you, Mike. Thank you. Thanks again to Mike Drucker for being on the show, and if you want to support the show and get these episodes one week ahead of time and ad-free, head on over to patreon.com slash Talking Simpsons and sign up for five bucks a month. Once you do get that early access, you'll get the ad free episodes, but you also get nearly 200 full length mini series episodes covering things like Futurama,

King of the Hill, Batman the animated series, Mission Hill and the Critic. And that five bucks a month also gets you regular new episodes of both Talking Futurama and Talking of the Hill. And the second you sign up, you get over seven years worth of bonus content that you missed if you're not a patron of patreon.com

Slash talking simpsons and there is a $10 level to when you sign up for that you get all the $5 stuff naturally But you also get one intensely long podcast once a month only for patrons of that level or higher Henry What is that Bob's talking about our what a cartoon movie podcast our super in-depth more like three podcasts in one Monthly premium podcast for $10 and up people. You would have just heard us close up our summer of the Disney Renaissance with 1999's Tarzan. Before that, we did Pocahontas and Mulan, and you would get a giant back catalog of almost six years worth of What A Cartoon Movies if you signed up today.

I would venture to say that is 200 hours of just the What a Cartoon Movie podcast in addition to all of the ad-free and bonus podcasts you get at a $5 level Bob just mentioned. Check it all out for yourself at patreon.com slash Talking Simpsons today. And I have been one of your hosts Bob Mackie. You can find me on Twitter and Blue Sky as Bob Servo and my other podcast is a classic gaming podcast all about old video games. It is called Retronauts, and you can find Retronauts wherever you find podcasts.

Or go to patreon.com slash retronauts and sign up there for two full length bonus episodes every month. And hey, we're talking about books today. It's been a very long time since I plugged my book, which is the Boss Fight Books published oral history of Day of the Tentacle, the classic point and click adventure game.

I put together a very comprehensive oral history on the making of that game. And you can find that wherever you find books or through the Boss Fight Bookstore. Thank you, Henry. You can find me on most social media as H-E-N-E-R-E-Y-G or Talking Henry on Instagram, follow me there. And if you're following me and Bob on those platforms,

you should be following at Talk Simpsons Pod because at Talk Simpsons Pod on Blue Sky Twitter and Instagram is how you will stay up to date when there is new episodes coming out. Whenever we have exclusives, whenever ad free stuff goes on the Patreon, you stay up to date if you're following at Talk Simpsons Pod on all those places. And if you want an easy to follow list of every free podcast we have released, head over to TalkingSimsons.com. Thanks so much for listening folks. I'll see you again next time for Season 15's My Mother the Carjacker. We'll see you then. Next up for parole, Bob Terwilliger, aka Sideshow Bob. Take care, Snake. May the next time we meet be under more felicitous circumstances.

Gaw? Take care. Baw.