Talking Simpsons - Talking Simpsons - Diatribe of a Mad Housewife With TheRealJims

Episode Date: March 12, 2025

"If I write a book, will they tell me when it comes out?" - Marge Simpson Learn all about the publishing world as we discuss an episode that both lampoons and harpoons the world of bodice-ripping romance novels. Our guest: TheRealJims Support this podcast and get over 200 ad-free bonus episodes by visiting Patreon.com/TalkingSimpsons and becoming a patron! And please follow the official Twitter, @TalkSimpsonsPod, not to mention Bluesky and Instagram!

This podcast is brought to you by Patreon.com slash Talking Simpsons. Head there to check out exclusive podcasts like Talking Futurama, Talk King of the Hill, the What a Cartoon Movie Podcast, and tons more. or product. Ahoy, ahoy everybody and welcome to Talking Simpsons, the podcast that's a clear and present danger to your free time. I'm your host, the first time standard upper Bob Mackie and this is our chronological exploration of the Simpsons who is here with me today as always Henry Gilbert, and I didn't know people were sad in the past

And who is our special guest on the line? Hi, this is the real gems number one Marge Flanders fanfic writer And this week's episode is diatribe of a mad housewife chapter one starts and beginnings swim swim swim thought the whale Housewife. This episode originally aired on January 25th, 2004, and as always, Henry will tell us what happened on this mythical day in real world history. Oh boy, Bobby, NASA's Opportunity Rover lands on the surface of Mars, the butterfly effect tops the box office, and in a week from today, America's morals will be shattered by seeing Janet Jackson's nipple at the Super Bowl halftime show. Oh, I was going to say, it wasn't George W. Bush sworn in, but there's a whole election to come.

I'm thinking of 2005. Yes, this is his election year. Yeah, we've talked in other ones about the John Kerry's winning primaries around this time. Right, right. I'm sorry, I'm ignorant of the American political system. Well, I guess we can cover Nipplegate first because you mentioned it last.

And weirdly enough, this comes up so often on Simpsons Commentaries. I think they've bounced back from this era, but in the mid to late-Aughts Simpsons Commentary era, when there is a naked butt on the screen, Al Jean will be the first to say, "'We can't do that anymore.'" That is just a common conversation they have throughout.

Maybe they're back to butts. I feel like they are, or maybe just, they're not watching the butts as closely on Disney Plus or Hulu Or wherever you're watching the Simpsons in pixelated and afraid episode They were pretty naked in that though. They did I think they did blur Homer's crack. I think though. I don't recall Jim's Do you recall that I'm pretty sure that's gone away at this point. We've definitely seen Butts on the show since then I feel like maybe since like the 30s

They might have gotten since like the 30s they might have gotten like the season 30s, but yeah, they were definitely throwing Janet Jackson under the bus for at least a decade and a half, I think. As all of media did, I didn't watch it live. I was working at the concession counter at an AMC during that Super Bowl. It was very quiet at the movie theater. And then after the halftime show, our manager came to us and said, Oh my God, Janet Jackson just showed her nipple on TV. They pull like Justin Timberlake says, I'm going to have you naked by the end of that

song, rips part of her top off. Then she has a nipple ring on there and everybody went crazy. And then of course he was the first to throw under the bus calling it a wardrobe malfunction, which became just a term from now on. A bad joke. It just slotted into whatever you need when you're telling your bad late night joke. Now, I believe she was wearing pasties. Oh, it's pasty.

We did not actually see bare nipples. So this gate is improperly named. We need to rename the gate entirely. And who remembers who won that Super Bowl? Nobody. And then every halftime show afterwards, I feel like the next three or four years, it was the most boring white guys possible

by the Super Bowl to try to distance themselves from having current musicians in the previous year. And this was shocking before every fifth person was just watching porn on the bus. That's true. In a more innocent time for America. Now people just post their entire butt on Instagram all the time. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah. And the butterfly effect, speaking of coining terms, like I mean, that was a phrase I think if you're a big sci-fi nerd, maybe you've heard of before, but the Ashton Kutcher film, I think really popularized the term the butterfly effect. That's an early 2000s classic. That's one of the few movies I can say that I actually watched the alternate ending for as well as the regular ending.

So it was really weird. I remember people talking about that at the time and they were actually debating on which version of the film is better. So kind of a fun fact for you guys. Oh, wow. I just remembered the tragic ending in the theater, right? He damns himself to save Brittany Murphy

or something kind of ending, wasn't that it? Yeah, like, okay, well, spoilers for this really old movie, guys. But yeah, like, in the end, I think it's, like, bittersweet where he just doesn't meet her at the end of the movie. Like, he avoids meeting her, so all the bad stuff doesn't happen. And then the alternate ending is, like, should I bring this up, too, or whatever? The alternate ending is crazy in that he literally goes back in time to when he was still in

his mother's womb and like suffocates himself so he's never born. It's the craziest ending. That is pretty early-aughts-edge. And I guess this was the first time they asked us to take Ashton Kutcher seriously and I guess in a decade he would play Steve Jobs, so maybe it paid off for him. Oh, that's right. He was in the lesser Jobs movie, wasn't he? a decade, he would play Steve Jobs, so maybe it paid off for him. Thank you, guys. Oh, that's right, he was in the lesser Jobs movie,

wasn't he, the non-sorkin' Jobs. I actually never saw that entire film, but in the previously mentioned AMC theater, I saw the ending many times, and I remember girls leaving the theater one of those times, like teen girls going like, then they were swooning over Ashton being so noble as to sacrifice his love for Brittany Murphy in that ending,

which I'm gonna say, based on your description, I think the theatrical ending might be better. Yeah, I remember the alternate one was definitely for like the edgy teen crowd who was into that kind of thing, but they probably made the right call, but maybe there's a lot of butterfly effect fans listening right now are very angry by that comment. Oh that Mars Rover thing, the only thing

interesting about it I could find other than they lost contact with it back in 2018 is that they had Duck Dodgers as the patch for it. Oh nice, yeah I was gonna say 2018 no one really wants to work anymore do they? Not even robots. Even the rovers. What they say is true but that's everything that happened in the week of this episode airing this was the closest to that Janet Jackson halftime show so I was like okay we're gonna talk about this major moment that specifically affects the Simpsons now's the time to do it the week before that Super Bowl and joining us once again is Simpsons youtuber the

real gyms welcome back to the show, The Real Jims. You were last with us to talk about barding over the technically 302nd, but actually 300th episode in the marketing. Welcome back to the show. Oh boy, I'm glad to talk about another milestone episode number, what are we at? Like 370, 308, like where are we?

I thought you said like 320 maybe. I'll look this up, everybody talk amongst yourselves. Oh yeah, I guess that was only like one season ago, nevermind. I was thinking of you for this one for several reasons. You're an expert on Simpsons just like us, you have so many great insights on the channel, but you've recently had a few Homer and Marge

relationship ones and also like Ned and Marge talk too. And when I was getting to this one, I was like, oh, this is such a net and Marge one, maybe even the first real like net and Marge one that I thought you'd have some good insights on this one. Ooh, we're gonna get into their sordid past. How did I become like the Simpsons shipping expert on YouTube?

Like this is not a niche, this is not a corner of the market I wanted to have, but. Outside of Pornhub, no one is doing the work to explain how the Simpsons characters are mashed together. I mean, to be honest, I have thought in my most degenerate times of doing a video just wondering who has hooked up with the most characters at some point, but I think we've reached the point where there's a line of how much Simpsons trash we will make. And by the way, this is $3.23 in case anyone was wondering.

Thank you, Bob. Hey, your guess was really close. Mm-hmm. You would have won by Price is Right rules of all our guesses. I was thinking 330. This March story, when I watched your ranking of the top 10 episodes of season 15, great video on YouTube, this one was at number seven. Do you feel similar feelings

re-watching it for this one? Oh, I was just about to ask. I was hoping I put in the top 10. I still probably feel that way. I'm gonna have Opinions about the first act of this thing, but I do generally like this episode. Yeah, I think it's very solid Yes, it's on the higher end of the 15th. We've rewatched for this one for me, too It's an interesting one too because it is full of like you've got a couple big Homer tropes in this one and also There's some deep character lore for us to explore too. so a lot of topics you deal with on your channel. I know why I'm really here.

I'm here for the deep character lore. I should have done some research before I came here. And I like this episode because I spent nearly 20 years as a professional writer, and Marge is not writing for websites of course, but I like the jokes about about writing and the jokes about Marge being super naive about the process are very funny to me. And now I have published a book I have an ISBN number I can go to heaven I'm allowed to now so I encourage all of you to do the same. You know for the longest time in my mind I mistakenly thought this title was a reference to Diary of a Mad Black Woman even though that film comes out a month

after this airs so it's obviously a reference to the 1970 film Diary of a Mad Black Woman even though that film comes out a month after this airs so it's obviously a reference to the 1970 film Diary of a Mad Housewife which then the Tyler Perry play that becomes a movie then was parodying that too so it's more you know lateral thinking so this only came up when I was searching for the title there is a movie with the same title that Diary not Diary of a Mad House, I've got it, got it. Yeah, which that's an interesting movie, at least. It's Wikipedia page is interesting. I never watched this movie.

But it is written by a then married director and writer team of Frank and Eleanor Perry. And it's about a bad relationship and a husband and wife kind of like cheating on each other. And then they get the writer and director team divorced the next year. In reality the episode is actually based on a Somerset mom short story called the Colonel's Lady and it has a lot of things in common with this episode. Matt Selman tries to talk about it on the commentary every time he's clowned on

for being a nerd. The Colonel's Lady. Like, I even listened to the commentary and I totally forgot about that. Well, he really tries to work in a discussion about it but he is just shouted down every time. It's funny, they're like giving him like wedgies on the commentary when it's like they're all nerds but he is the designated picked on nerd of that commentary.

He didn't even go to Harvard, he's in there with Harvard nerds. Surrounded by him, yeah. I feel like at the beginning of that commentary. He didn't even go to Harvard. He's in there with Harvard nerds Surrounded by him. Yeah, I feel like at the beginning of that commentary I don't know why I'm getting the commentary stuff But he did really go into like the backstory with like a long thing at the beginning Like trying to set it up and like everybody was like kind of like they were kind of almost humoring him on a commentary Well, we could talk about this episodes writer because this is her first episode of The Simpsons and her only episode of The Simpsons. And we were talking about this before the recording.

I think she could be the sixth female writer. I think it's what we decided upon because we have Mimi Pond, Jennifer Crittenden, Deb Lacosta, Julie Thacker, and am I missing one other one? Oh, Nell Scovell. Nell Scovell. So yeah, I think she is number six. And Carolyn Elmene. Yeah, it was Scovell. Nell Scovell. So yeah, I think she is number six. And Carolyn Elmene. Yeah, it was Carolyn.

All right, sorry, Carolyn's been with the show for like 30 years, I apologize. And we've interviewed her too. I'm embarrassed. So she's number seven. Lucky number seven, I think. If I'm forgetting another woman, there was the co-writer of the Bleeding Hums Murphy death

episode is transitioned later. Right. Yeah. So let's say eight. Let's say eight. Let's say eight. So thankfully say eight. Let's say it So thankfully I wrote a bio on her for talking mission hill our series about mission hill in the patreon patreon.com Talking Simpsons we cover the entire series and the episodes that they never made

Apparently Robin Jay Stein wrote unemployment part one and that's why I dug into her history So really quick here not a whole lot to cover because a lot of it does not pertain to our interests. So she started off her career in the early 90s with scripts for TV shows like Amen and Harry and the Hendersons. And as a reminder, there were 72 episodes of a Harry and the Hendersons TV show. They built a giant puppet for a guy to walk around inside and now no one can see it. Wait a minute, really?

Like doesn't that movie end with them like departing or whatever? Did they just get back together for the show? I think the TV series asks, what if that didn't happen? Yeah, what if we move back in? What if every episode is about hiding him? I went to a live show, our friends on We Hate Movies covered the film, and I think they talked a little bit about when they looked up plots from that show and they got increasingly ridiculous because there really is nowhere to go with that premise. And yet they did 72 episodes. There's a YouTube video somewhere about

what that show was actually about and what was going on. And it seemed like they knew that no one was watching it in the later episodes. They just kind of did whatever they wanted to. And it seemed like sheer lunacy. So yes, Robin J. Stein wrote for that. And she got a story editor job on Step by Step's final CBS season where she would end up writing two episodes. So she was on Step by Step in the lesser years where TGIF shuffled off a few shows to another network and no one really heard from them again, but they were still making episodes. And of course, Robin Stein was an executive editor on Mission Hill, story editor that is,

and she wrote one episode there because there were only 13 to go around, and Damagrath took the lion's share of them, I believe. I think Damagrath has like three of those. Am I right, Henry? Yes, yeah, which is a lot. I think of the one of the unmade episodes or that only made it to Animatic,

I think he wrote one of those too. Yes, yes, I think he wrote one of the ones we covered in our podcast mini series. So this is Robin J. Stein's only episode of The Simpsons. She dabbled a bit in kids TV before this, but she would go on to work exclusively in that particular field. And she's still writing today, so she

has credits on fairly popular modern shows, like the Rugrats reboot and Paw Patrol. Though based on her credits, it seems like she's rarely part of the staff of any show, and she is mainly working remotely as a freelance writer, which seems like a pretty sweet gig. That's crazy that they've used it. Are we on number seven or number eight for female writers on the show? I'd say eight.

I think it's eight. Yeah. Okay. That is crazy that we are on episode 323 and there have been eight female writers like, come on guys. Many of them, I think only two we mentioned were staff. Maybe three we mentioned were staff writers out of the eight. I believe when we asked Omini about it,

she said the Thacker did write on it. She was not a staff writer. So, and Jennifer Crinton was staff, but she was like lesser staff or like, she was very junior staff. So Omini was like the first high level woman on the staff who would make it up to executive producer. We'll cover Jennifer Crittenden in I believe season six of Talking Simpsons, but I believe she was hired out of like a kind of like a writing

fellowship program right out of college. Though speaking of like friends and stuff, I was impressed to see that Robin Stein was like one of the rare we've I've harped on Simpsons freelancers in the past few years being like usually like, oh, it's Al Jean's old boss from ALF or the former head writer of David Letterman. It's not people getting big freelancer opportunities, but this is for Robin J. Stein. At the same time, it is someone who has worked in TV for close to 15 years, so, but this is a step

in the right direction in terms of who they're getting to freelance on episodes. Yeah, that's great that they're able to get somebody just in the door to be able to write a new episode. I kind of wish it would have led to like more credits for her in the future, but it does sound like that the freelance program was kind of working as intended in this case. Yeah, and apparently she did not bring the Marge as a novelist plot to the table. Her script was about Homer becoming an ambulance driver, so as with many scripts, it seems to have been heavily rewritten.

And when the writer isn't there, I think they have a lot more carte blanche to, you know, change whatever they want without necessarily worrying about hurting someone's feelings or giving them more input. That's really surprising to hear because just looking at the episode you would assume that the whole idea was the Marge pitch and that Homer is the tacked on element so that's very surprising that it's like totally backwards in this case. Yeah I'd love to read her original script to see how long Homer was a used car salesman was it more than a minute or more than 30 seconds we get here

well we'll talk about it this does feel like they're starting to parody the Homer gets a job concept, which they poked fun out before, but here I feel like the first job is a mislead to get you to the second job. Yes. I was surprised here on the commentary too that the Marge wasn't the one she had pitched as much,

because definitely Homer with a 70s ambulance, I probably give Dana Gould too much credit, but that really feels like the type of thing Dana Gould He loves a 70s ambulance and joke about dead hippies like that sounds like pure Dana Gould comedy to me He could have been presented with the premise and said okay. I got to work in a dead hippie joke somewhere. I Mean this also is like a major episode for the Marge and Ned relationship too And even the Christmas episode this year was about it. Like they are really the one that was on Disney Plus,

not exactly about it, but it was a ton of, I noticed it was a ton of Marge and Ned stuff about Ned's crisis of faith, though they weren't like attracted to each other. Yeah, this was still in the era where actually using Ned Flanders on the show, which kind of fell off dramatically in the next few seasons. Yeah, you know, Homer was the first one to find him sexy,

so they didn't do anything more with that, I guess. Yeah, the sexuality between Marge and Ned was not at all present in Homer's problem with her being in Streetcar, the musical with Ned, where we first saw Ned's hot body. That didn't bother Homer at all. Though I also feel it's only fair, Homer was so overtly attracted to Maude Flanders that I think it's only fair that Marge can have like you know subconscious attraction to Ned. Yeah it's kind of

weird to think that they did it a little bit in season four and we're seeing a little bit today in season 15, that yeah, you'd think that that would be a natural, if you're gonna have four people, four neighbors, like that is the logical way to go, especially, I mean, not to write fanfic again, but you would think that Marge and Ned have chemistry together,

at least in terms of their temperaments. Yeah, yeah, they're both goody goodies. I feel like there's a big misconnection there in their past. But they're both religious too? Yeah, that's what I liked goody-goodies. I feel like there's a big misconnection there in their past. But they're both religious, too? Yeah. That's what I liked in the Christmas episode this year, that it was the crisis of faith connected with Marge being, you know, the most Christian member of the Simpsons family. I guess they're kind of falling in love tropes where they're like, well, they need some kind

of conflict, you know, and what are you really gonna get like pairing Marge and Ned together? I mean, I guess they did the stuff, she like babysits their kids in season 17 and runs into like parenting issues where he's just such a goody goody. So I guess there is good Marge character foil stuff you can do with a Ned pairing. But this episode after a quick couch gag of baked pie,

which looks delicious, I think it's a good looking pie. We last covered one where there were cake toppings, the Simpsons. They're being placed on a giant cake. Oh and you know what also I feel like very recently this season we had the microwave where they all like kind of expand and it's like rising dough or maybe it was like a toaster oven. It's a real food run here on the couch gags. Did you guys remember this couch gag at all? When I saw it I was like, oh it's pie. Huh. I guess it's part of a series of Simpsons are food or inside of food. I like the cake topping because they were part of the cake here. They're just like people trapped in a pie. Horrifying. To stay on the food beat

Homer is ordering food and this is you can chart where fast food is at and what fast food the Simpsons writers are buying, I think, by how they write fast food jokes. Like, we're more than a decade past the Good Morning Burger and the Good Morning Burger in 2004, it's not a satire of how unhealthy or ludicrous fast food is. And they make a joke about supersizing.

Supersize Me did not outlaw that upsizing trend yet. Okay, this was post Super Size Me, right? Right before, so this is January. Super Size Me came out on my birthday in 2004, May 7th. Happy 22nd birthday, Bob Mackie. Nice. Yeah, and it would kill the Super Size size at McDonald's. And so Homer mega sizing it and that's also

funny because the late Morgan Spurlock oh I forgot he died thank you Henry after he passed away Al Jean was one of the people posting like in memoriams of him he worked on two Simpsons specials he did the 20th anniversary special in 3d on ice and the Springfield Dreams, the legend of Homer Simpson about the softball episode. Did he do that documentary thing too about fandom and interviewing the writers and stuff? That's the 20th anniversary one. Oh, OK.

Yeah, yeah. I guess the main thing they didn't tell you and supersize me is that he was also a violent alcoholic in terms of the sheer amount he would consume. So that was also leading him down a path to poor health. But eating McDonald's every day day patently not good for you Obviously you don't need to make an entire movie about that But he had other extenuating circumstances that were affecting his health looking back on it

I'm kind of shocked that the Simpsons never did a Super Size Me parody with Homer That seems like the kind of topical thing they would do in like 2008 or something I do know that there is a joke because I was trying to look up did Morgan Spurlock appear on the show and I forgot it and he really didn't he never played himself on the show like other people Did though they liked working with him behind the scenes for official documentaries, but I did find I was reminded There is a joke where I know Few seasons crusty will make an anti super size me the real truth joke against super size me So that's the closest they got to it.

Well, despite all the items on this menu, they write a ton of jokes. Despite all of that, Homer orders something that's not a written joke on the screen, which I found like, wow, you wrote all those jokes and didn't use any of them, really. The macho sauce is my favorite. I like that they deep fried the bag or whatever.

It definitely made me think of that Bart sells a soul joke. Oh yeah, that's a good one. I should admit that I stopped driving 20 years ago and I don't have as much fast food as I used to have. But when this episode aired, I didn't order as big, I didn't order a comically large order like Homer's here, but I was a drive through and eat while driving driver back then. It seems incredibly unsafe. I look back on it and I was like, wow, why did I do that?

But back then I was as guilty of this as Homer. Well, what were you eating, Henry? Because some foods you could eat safely while having one hand on the steering wheel. I assume you weren't shifting. I think you had an automatic. No, no, I'm an automatic driver, yeah. It was usually more of the McNugget or burger variety that I would be having.

That's the way to go. You've got to get the McNuggets. Easiest driving food. Do not get tacos. Sometimes burgers. This is how empty wrappers end up in your car and you look like a real slob. But Homer, I never laid back in my car to get the extra space on my gut to eat properly. That's how you create more lap.

I love seeing Homer eat all the food in here. I think too this is another of those like, oh this is like different than it would have been in season three kind of bit of. Homer orders a giant burrito. I feel like, not that Homer didn't eat burritos back then, but I feel like the burrito is much more mainstream as an American food by 2004 than it was in say 1990.

Yeah burrito chains are really expanding it was no longer just a funny word you heard on TV. And the way it explodes is pretty great too though this I talked about this in other ones but Homer this episode feels like they are against jerk-ass Homer trying to fight that narrative but Homer kills so many people this season and very directly. With his car. The episode with Mona, Henry, it wasn't Mona leaves, it was... My mother, the carjacker. Yeah, my mother, the carjacker. He kills a man in much the same way he drives through a building and the man utters some last words and then that person is dead now. Wow, this really reminded me of, isn't there like a subplot, was it from a couple of years ago,

where he gets so many accessories in his car that he can't even see anymore? Like he has a chandelier next to him, where he's like, I think he even acknowledges, he's like, even I think this is crazy at some point. Yeah, that's when he gets his license taken away and he's gotta start walking, and then Marge runs him over in a change of pace.

Oh, okay. Yes, that's the episode where Homer gets his cell phone, doo-doo-doo, doo-doo-doo. Yeah, that was just last season. But this one too of like, Homer, I at first thought, oh, this is the first time Homer's like killed a man on screen and dies. But no, then you reminded me, Bob, of the moan episode where he hits that lawyer in front of the cops in the police station. And Homer does not get any judgment from that at all. And I also think when they give Homer the funny line of, why don't I just pull over,

it's funny, but it also makes it more complicit in this death, I would say. He knew what he was doing was wrong. What about all the times he's killed Hans Mollmann's got to count to his body count sure sure you know when I think Of his the most in canon deaths Homer is caused the one that always comes to me is the New billboard day when he stops his car and like four cars behind him explode in flames like I think I think of that It's his biggest kill, but there might be more. I'm thinking of also when he's in the fishing net

with all the people and being dragged back to shore. It's like, something's grabbing at my leg! Oh, it stopped. That's true. Yeah, that's, boy, that has to be like 30 people, right? At least. Death through negligence, at least. I'm just glad all the characters at the top

were people that we knew mm-hmm We then cut to burns and it's the old safety inspector bit But this is updated for post 9-eleven fears except burns is thinking of post 1901 fears not post 2001 fears he's afraid of Bolsheviks in jazz bows When he said golden arm jazz bows I was like that, that means people who take heroin, I believe, because the man with the golden arm is about that, right? Yeah, that's the connection I made, at least. And this episode does bring back a character

who had canonically died, and we'll get to that. But this also kills off what I thought was the recurring safety inspector, but it's really just the recurring safety inspector voice. This is not the same design as the guy who goes, the box, the box, the box, in Homer Goes to College. He's reported alive.

So they don't use that voice anymore for the inspector? Oh, I'm sure they did again. I was just trying to be like, oh, did they at least kill the same guy on screen? But I think we've noticed this from time to time where it's like the actor, in this case, Azaria, I think, right? He sees, oh nuclear inspector, how do I do that voice? And he does the old voice but the artist didn't pull the old character model out. I wish the Simpsons wiki listed the characters as alive or dead. I always love that, like you could look up Oscar the Grouch it says alive and you're like, thank God. That Simpsons wiki is not reliable anyway though. No no no. No no And too British, as I've complained many times.

Too British. So Homer kills a guy, and he is fired and thrown out, as is his car. Joey, the man who escorted him out, he's aged a bit since then. Speaking of character models, they give him white hair in this one. Yeah, this is a redesign for Crusher and Loblo,

or whatever. They have rotating names. Yeah, like, are those supposed to be Crusher and Loblo? Because those seem like totally different characters to me. Talk about killing characters off now. Well, the one guy holding Homer on his left, or Homer's left at screen right, I do believe it is the guy who punch but don't kick that guy. It's his design, but they changed his hair color.

The colors are mixed up on his design. Maybe he's like just stamped the ticket man as one of the few characters that grows grayer as the years go on. You know what? I had heard recently in season 36's Shoddy Heat that Burns could never fire Homer because of a deal he made with Abe, and yet... That's the first thing I thought of actually

as someone who recently watched that episode. Season 36 is bullshit anyway. Don't listen to them. That one just bothered me and look hey you gotta promote episodes how you gotta promote them. I get it. I'm not blaming any person who worked on the show who promoted it in this way but it was promoted as let's say that the headline industrial complex then posted about it like the secret finally revealed why Homer never gets fired. Yeah. Sorry I'm agreeing with you. They were operating on a false premise. The question was you know how Homer never gets fired. And that's... Sorry, I'm agreeing with you.

They were operating on a false premise. The question was, you know how Homer never gets fired? And I was thinking, I've seen a lot of Homer firings in my lifetime. Yeah, when they did that, I was definitely one of those, please, please, please don't explain this part. Like, this is part of the fun, guys. Like, I don't know, when you're in a season 36 of anything

and you're, like, I'm not saying they're writing it to get those headlines, but like you got to think of something like novel to bring to it. Or at least have it be reflected in the canon instead of saying like, oh, this is, this is why Burns always hears just by pedantic nerd shift. You can make just say, this is why Burns always hires him back after firing better. But they presented in the episode as this is why Homer always hires him back after firing him. Better, yeah. But they presented in the episode as, this is why Homer is never fired.

Some of the nitpicking has been beaten out of me a little bit over the years, so I'm not as mad about it. I think Matt Selman has basically gaslit me into accepting all these things at this point, where I was like, you're right, Selman, this is all part of that weird, wacky nonsense tree. So I guess I kind of buy it Matt Sullman says you like my trolling. It's funny when I troll you. I'm halfway there

I mean, I guess shoddy heat also made it that Homer was born in like 1979 in that episode for that episode to work too So, you know, how much can I really complain? You know They're continuing to do that sliding timeline stuff because he got yelled at so much for that 90s show That he is going to make us all used to it at this point like grandpa being in the 1970s I don't even bat an eye at it because it's right like that is what the show is Yeah, you know, I'm being punished for hating that episode so much when it first aired can't wait to get to it

So Homer gets thrown out, as does his car. I assume this is why, this is an unspoken reason why he drives the ambulance the rest of the episode, because his car is destroyed in this action. Sure, I buy that. Because it's parked next to Marger's car the rest of the episode, the ambulance. The car is not seen the rest of the episode.

Then we go over to Bookachino's, which is a good, I'd say a good commentary on what bookstores were like at the turn of the century. I miss this era dearly. I loved hanging out in these. I think we talk about this every time these pop up in early aughts media, but it's fun to go into these now because they've changed greatly. Sometimes they're thriving, and you're surprised. Sometimes, like what I experienced this weekend there are lots of big things blocking off parts of the store that they don't use anymore and you could tell like wow this place has seen better days and I feel like everything is gonna be

shipped out of here pretty soon. I really like the kind of social like the kind of jab at him how Lisa said she was gonna go up to the third floor to look at the books like when she said that I was oh, that's totally true now. But even more extreme, where when you walk into any chain bookstore now, the store is at least 50 percent Funko pops and stuff. You know, weirdly enough, it seems like TikTok, the app that's melting everyone's brains, is bringing books back in a big way. Because whenever I go into a big bookstore, they have a big book talk section.

And these are books people find out about via TikTok. This is completely new to me. I'm happy it's getting people to read, but I never would have connected. You watch a five second video, then that leads to you reading a 300 page book. I had only recently heard of book talk as well. Feeling like an old man is when I heard this book talk?

What? I think I'm just not giving people enough credit and I'm sorry. They got a good name for it, so it's gotta be popular. Well, now this joke about how they walk by all these DVD racks, it makes me think about how like, Barnes and Noble, for instance, is what I count on for like physical media more,

Best Buy doesn't sell discs anymore of anything, like Blu-rays, DVDs, 4Ks meanwhile, it's Barnes and Noble who have like their yearly Criterion sale in all of the like physical media sales Yeah I think I saw a video like it was like about like the CEO of Barnes and Noble's like they're bringing it back or something Or they're making every chain more local in a way and that they're like really leaning into Like there's a lot of the other stuff like board games and DVDs but they're actually there is an effort I hear of actually trying to get the books to feel more like a mom and pop place which I don't know it kind of sounds

like they're like trying to cheat at this point but they're trying to bring the books back I think. I mean certainly there's a little level of evil to that of like I do like that I like that print media is apparently getting stronger now that Barnes and Noble can like start opening new stores again But when you say that I think I watch that same video to or a similar one of like oh why They're doing it to look like an independent bookstore, which only like F's over independent Yeah stores that have survived this I guess in the 90s You could be mad at Barnes and Noble and Borders, etc. for driving those small stores out of business, but now they're the plucky upstarts we're rooting for.

I rewatched You Got Mail a while ago and watching that was definitely a, oh yeah, like the evil Fox Books bookstore in the little shop around the corner. It really was kind of a weird and anachronistic nostalgic look. That movie is weirdly enough pro-evil bookstore because when the small book shop owner goes to the big box bookstore, she walks in, it's like she entered heaven. She's never seen these sites before in her life. And she's like, you're right. You're right, sir. This is the way to go.

That Tom Hanks is so charming and he's such a good businessman. We should respect him. Yeah. So after we get some jokes about also how the people who work at bookstores are all under-employed graduate students, which Bob, you were one of those once. Yes, although I was writing video game website articles for, I guess, less than what a Barnes and Noble employee was making. So fair enough.

I was going to be an English professor, but then the world of video game journalism actually had more jobs as shocking as that sounds. So I went that direction instead. Now in 2025, that joke applies to basically every store you go to. So, uh, yeah, now in 2025, there are, I think 19 full-time games writer jobs, and I think 13 full-time professor jobs. So it's still still your odds are better going into games writing. And this is where I'll

play our first clip as Marge's story begins as she discovers one of her favorite writers who she's never talked about before but let's just assume Marge loves this writer. Esme Delacroix? She wrote to kiss a scoundrel. And they tumbled to the heather, breeches to bustle, crinoline to burlap, their mansion in ashes, their passion aflame. End of chapter one. Yeah, when it happens in a book, it's romantic.

But when Willie tries to kiss you, you're all pepper spray and fingernails. Marge Simpson, long-time reader, first-time stander-upper. Did you have any special training to become a writer? Just a class at the Y, Yale University. But anyone with passion can write. Anyone? If I write a book, will they tell me when it comes out? Well, they should, yes. Then I'll do it! That is one of my favorite jokes I think of this entire year of the show, maybe this decade of the show.

I love that Marge, that's the one thing she has to be sure about before she'll even try writing. And her name is on the cover, we can assume this writer wrote Love in the Time of Scurvy, the novel she's reading in Lisa's arrival I really like as made a quad when March says her name they say on the commentary that it's not based on any one person like it's just a you know that sounds like somebody who'd write a bodice ripper I think is one term for those types of sexy period piece of books that I think men Usually like look down upon is like oh women read trashy things to be turned on as something a man would never do

Yeah, still going strong. I like it these books I like in the setup how they basically are giving exactly zero barriers to get this plot going like they are like Clearing the way of like plot begins now, Marge. I mean, Homer's story has a double setup, so it's like he took the on-ramp for Marge and just like, that's why they gotta get straight to Marge. He has two setups in fake-outs. Yeah, Marge needs no real inspiration to write this novel.

She looks at a picture once and then off to the races. This whole first act does feel ridiculously wandering in terms of how much is happening where you know what I mean? Like it seems like just things are just happening all the time where like Homer gets fired, Homer's working for a used car store, now Homer's an ambulance driver, Marge goes to a bookstore, Marge becomes a writer. You know what I mean? Like we're only like three minutes in the episode and I feel like I've watched a whole season of a drama.

Yeah, there's a lot of ideas. Maybe that's just what results in them getting a freelance script and then just jamming every one of their own ideas into the gaps. I also like the titles of her books, her other books like To Kiss a Scoundrel, I Scoundrel, and The Secret of Scoundrel Cove is very funny, though it is similar to the joke I love about the Hardy Boys book, where Bart says, they're all about smugglers. And then we're says, not this one,

the smugglers of Pirates Cove, it's about pirates. That is a great point. Not the biggest fan of that Willie joke, but sitting next to them, I like that Helen Lovejoy, she went there with, it looks like Miss Albright, the Sunday school teacher, who they rarely, when they have to have an audience of only women, they gotta dig deep

sometime for female characters. They'd hang out, I think. We gotta figure out what Bernice Hibbert's doing right now. Drinking, most likely, I would bet. Her alcoholism is like the one thing that has been consistent. Bob, I always think of this, you pointed it out in the Prohibition episode,

the like, that's like the first time they did a joke that she drinks a lot. And she actually got an act break joke, a character we've barely seen and know nothing about. Yeah, whenever we watch that episode and they get to that joke, that does always hit really hard for a character that we don't know at all.

I always do feel like they're gonna follow up on it, but no, like she just goes away. And then cut to this year with the White Lotus episode they did, the Yellow Lotus, like her pill addiction is her major plot point in that one. People have been asking for Bernice Hibbert Simpsons histories for a while, but I don't know if I can do that many alcoholism jokes

in a row. It's a challenge. One man can save humanity from total destruction. It's up to Homer Simpson and family to save the world from a diabolical plot as they run and drive to unravel the conspiracy. Black Venge! Critics call it the best Simpsons game ever. Get the lawsuits. The Simpsons' hit and run, rated T for team.

I am Evil Homer. Welcome to the break everybody. I hope you like this being Henry Gilbert instead of Mary Kate and Ashley Olsen reading this to you. And a big thank you to our guest this week on Talking Simpsons, the real Jims. Had him back on the best YouTube Simpsons historian out there, so it's always awesome to have him on to help us with our own history and deconstruction of Simpsons here for a season 15 episode full of important moments.

Please check out The Real Jims YouTube channel and all the great videos he does there. If you haven't yet, he just posted a really cool one about the history of the sea captain And if you enjoy the talking Simpsons podcast you should know that it's only possible because we have supporters at patreon.com Talking Simpsons and those subscribers there help me and Bob do this as our full-time real jobs And that's also where you can get ad free podcasts You could hear this one and next week's episode right now early and ad free. No ads like this one in it. And that goes for all of the awesome stuff you'll find there because of the $5 level. You also get all of our exclusives that we do each month.

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You are missing out on 200 plus podcasts patreon.com slash talking symptoms But if you want something even nicer than a quote from Thomas Pinchon Then you need to sign up at the premium level of patreon.com slash talking Simpsons because that is where we do our what a cartoon movie podcast our exclusive super awesome basically three podcasts in one animated feature film discussion where we go as in depth into the history of a movie as we do an episode of the Simpsons we just covered for nearly five hours 2010s how to train your dragon arguably the first great dream works animated feature and the month before that we cover the first Disney film,

Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs. And this month, we're going to be talking about 1986's Don Bluth and Steven Spielberg film and American Tale. It's all at the premium $10 a month level that comes with over six years of water cartoon movies, over 200 hours. We've covered the entire Disney Renaissance. We've covered a bunch of Studio Ghibli.

We've covered Space Jam. We've covered our longest podcast ever, Who Framed ever who framed Roger Rabbit six and a half hours long It's all there at patreon.com Talking Simpsons right now and free with new stuff every month. So please sign up today patreon.com Talking Simpsons So Marge decides after hearing about this she's gonna do it. Then meanwhile we see Homer walking down the street trying to find his new job and he comes across a used car park. This does feel to me like them admitting like Homer as a used car salesman is first pitch idea and the type they reject

as too predictable. Yeah. And you could tell how dated this premise is and why they get out of it as soon as possible because the guy even has the loud jacket, you know, just the standard used car salesman joke look from decades ago. But why are they even doing this plot though? Why can't he just walk along and see the ambulance right there? Can they not think of an excuse why he would have the money to buy it? To me it feels like a joke on Homework gets a Job episodes where it's the mislead where okay now get ready for him to do this oh wait no he's doing. I had a thing he found in the get a job plot. He's getting another job within the get a job plot. It's a Homer gets two jobs episode. And I think they intentionally write it kind of boring just so you're like, Oh, hey, feel good. They leave this like very stock character

of the used car salesman. And the only things they can really think of to do with Homer is two fart jokes with him. Yeah, that's true. Okay now this is fine, but this is Peter Griffin territory. I think. I could see Peter Griffin doing this. This is not an insult. This is not me complaining, but it feels more appropriate for that character. I had to write down two jokes in this one that I was like I then had to look up who did it first. Though in this case Peter Griffin farting and turning up the radio to thinks it covers it I can't think of him literally doing that in a family guy It feels like in the exact like also just Homer farting

I'm not saying they never have done a joke where Homer expels gas out of his butt or they do a great joke about it But the joke is Homer literally farted on screen. That does feel like a line they don't usually cross. Yeah. Weirdly enough, I think Marge crossed that line first. This could be that. I mean, we've had Homer belching, Homer puking, Homer peeing and pooping. But I think this is the first, like, active farting on the screen by Homer. Yeah, like I literally when you say that, I literally don't think

I can think of a Homer farting joke and the one that he does Do is silent, you know, so we're you're right Bob Marge has an audible toot on Screen and says that shut me up The close I can think of is the great joke Bart has at the end of King size Homer Where Homer plugs up the thing and then he says like, dad's butt normally is exuding toxic gas or whatever, that kind of line. Homer is bad at selling things which should have also been obvious to his used car salesman boss the second Homer walked in.

Homer is no good at being a used car salesman because he's too stupid. So do they send him out to like, was he just told to go like turn on the weird clown? What is the word for that thing a little? Wacky waving inflatable tube man. I know this because family guy they were not first But they have the most notable bit about this kind of a prop at a used car lot or wherever you'll see it I need local business, but the Simpsons got there first. That was the one I had to Google Bob Thanks for bringing that up the Yes because I saw it I was like hey wait who did this first because the joke is a very memorable one in Family Guy. It was part of the Stewie Griffin the untold

story DVD movie in quotes and that's where the joke was so it was done over a year after this aired so the Simpsons got to the inflatable tube man joke first, but didn't hit it as hard. Though for me, I prefer, if I'm talking about things I imagine at a used car lot, I prefer the giant inflated gorilla over the tube man. I don't know where you guys rank these. I would probably go with this one more,

just because at least Homer's like, woogity dance that he tries to do on there. I like that Homer also feels the need to make sound effects while he's doing it. And it was his only friend. That was also not his fault. I know they like throw Homer under the bus for flying away but what was he supposed to do in that situation? I guess check to see if he was properly tethered to the base. Maybe that was Homer's responsibility, I don't know. And so while at the used car shop this is where Homer comes across his true calling. Cool, an ambulance from the 60s. I bet a lot of hippies were denied care in this thing.

Ha ha ha. Injured hippies. We'll never sell this thing. The brakes are shot, the engines rusted. The only thing that works is the siren I'll do it! Do what? Good response. I hear that siren too much in my ears when I go to stores, by the way. They should turn off the siren when you enter. I think their classical conditioning is going on. Now see when I see this ambulance this is the difference between like a Gen X and a

millennial I see that thing I think Ghostbusters Ecto-1. Oh me too absolutely. Because these weren't ambulances when we were kids it was only the Ecto-1 like this is why I thought it's a Dana Gould thing because like Dana Gould is a dragnet super fan though other writers on the show are too They can't be 60s dragnet and this is the type of ambulance that picks up Wayward hippies and crime doers in drag. Well, we talked about Dana Gould if we're gonna pin one joke on him I think Homer saying maybe on planet Zuzu that does feel like Dana Gould is stamped all over that joke. Oh, yeah It's dismissive of a woman. It's a mean father joke not to say that sounded like I was like Dana Gould is stamped all over that joke. Oh yeah. It's dismissive of a woman. It's a mean father joke. Not to say that sounded like I was saying Dana Gould like is dismissive of women. He writes jokes about mean father types who are

dismissive of women. That's what I'm saying. Well, this is where there is actually the big deleted or one of two deleted scenes the episode and the most interesting one. It takes a lot of silence and setup for it. But so deleted scene one on the DVD. If you're wondering, is Homer doing this freelance in the episode, the deleted scene shows Homer actually has a boss and he works for an ambulance company and is a driver for them. Wow. How unnecessary. I actually was coming in here asking what the situation was because like we talked about how much stuff is happening, but yeah, so he is actually working for the hospital then, like it's official.

It is the Sunshine Ambulance Company. And yes, that means it is a parody of Taxi is the scene that is cut. Oh, okay. Well, we've done that before. Look, they love Taxi. It was Jim Brooks's and Sam Simon's biggest hit show, both on television.

Well, actually, you know, Mary Tyler Moore was his biggest hit show for Brooks. But Taxi, also a big hit, kind of lost in the Simpsons narrative, even though, like, yeah, Sam Simon ran Taxi before running The Simpsons. They put Taxi reference in there, though. By 2004, a Taxi reference feels pretty good. Yeah, they did it on The Critic ten years years before this and I think that was the expiration date. I think Jim Brooks found out about this scene and made him delete it. No, it makes sense that he would be working for a private company because that's how ambulances work in America. And one of the first things I learned as an adult is never call an ambulance unless you are actively dying and there is no other way to get help because they are very expensive.

Here's the delete scene. Homer drives into the Sunshine Ambulance Company and he comes across a character who looks like Danny DeVito and then a character who looks like Christopher Lloyd. Well, I could use an auto splat mobile on the night shift. All right, you're hired. Hey boss, what do you want me to do? What do you mean boss? You don't work here. You're just a drunk who lives in the alley

So there you go no good Christopher Lloyd, but I will say that the day to veto it's moe. I'm sorry Hank. That's just moe He tries. He tries. Yeah, you're right Yeah, maybe it was better. They did cut that one out Maybe they had on the back burner, well, if we can get Danny DeVito and Christopher Lloyd, maybe we'll do it, or at the very least one of them. But if you were trying to guess, so how does Homer actually make money from this? He can't just be a freelance driver, right?

They had the answer in a deleted scene. So Homer comes home, this is when he mentions that he quit his job as a used car salesman. Marge didn't even know he lost his first job. All he did was send her a message about DuxyFed. Ducklings. Yeah, that's where the Planet Zuzu joke you mentioned is great and mean to Lisa. I don't think it warrants Take That Lisa's beliefs.

It's not that mean to Lisa, but it's close. They're not specific to Lisa. I think we all believe you should have training to work in ambulance and help people. Yes. I mean, the thing's already full of morphine and defibrillators, so. This is also an episode where Homer is shooting morphine regularly.

So I'll add that to his crimes, I think. And this is where Marge tells him her plans, which he's incredibly dismissive all over the place. First, saying slow down, Picasso, meaning he's incredibly dismissive all over the place. Like first saying like slow down Picasso, meaning he thinks she's painting instead, which that's Marge's other main skill she kind of forgets about. And now then he thinks she's getting her hair done, which I like that she takes it as a compliment first before she realizes like he was being dismissive. You mentioned a streetcar named Marge earlier with the Ned stuff, but this scene is very

a streetcar named Marge between how dismissive Homer is of her and how she wants to do this like creative project. It's almost like if a streetcar named Marge and Mr. Plow happened at the same time. Oh, that's great. Yeah, that's a great analogy because it does feel like she's working out her rage via art. Once again, this time it's not through performance, it's through prose. And instead of Homer being seen as the horrible character Stanley Kowalski, it's instead a horrible character she makes up herself. Yeah, because I think

you mentioning the streetcar thing with Ned and Marge, like got into my head. And yeah, this episode is very streetcar coded in terms of like them redoing their old material. Except Julie Kavananer is not made to sing this time. It's too bad. I'm sure she likes it. I mean, we talked about Marge being an artist in terms of painting. She forgot that she painted the sailboat,

and I guess she forgot that she named the painting as well. I'm only bringing that up because it is a very funny, dark joke when we finally learn the origin of the sailboat, and I think, trouble with trillions? Yeah, yeah, because Homer tries to write it off as a business expense or a gift, then Martin says I painted that and the way She just looks and says you really had a lot of talent kid and then just like look sad like that's such a great Sad joke about Marge. Maybe she's repressed it. Yeah made her so sad she repressed it down. I

Feel like there's a lot of that sailboat painting lore because I think there's another joke somewhere where they have like a whole bunch of them in the closet or something too. I might be making this one up, but I feel like every decade or so they go for a sailboat painting joke. I think this means your next video should be the sailboat history, sailboat painting history. There's probably a mystery there probably. This is also where on the commentary they bring up something that this is an episode about the creep of technology because they said when the show started Matt Groening,

this is why the characters all type on typewriters or write things down in pen, why the Simpsons didn't have a computer for so long. They directly address it out, Gene's talking about how Matt Groening wanted them to feel intentionally dated when the show started. Okay, and in this episode, because this was, you said, 2005 we're in now? 2004. Oh, 2004. And she's typing on what, a computer from 1996?

1992? Like, that monitor is huge. It looks like the computer that Homer got to start his internet business back in, Das Bus, I think it was. I don't think I got a flat screen monitor until maybe like 2006, so I was still rocking the big fat computer monitor in 2004. I know the flat ones were out, I just had like the hand-me-down monitors.

I'm surprised they weren't doing jokes about, what were those computers? The Apple ones, the iMac? The iMac, yeah. Yeah, they should be doing the iMac jokes by then. I feel like they did use iMac style stuff in like when they went to like a net cafe kind of thing, but not as a thing they own.

I mean that would be seen as too fancy for them. I mean now these days they have just fully given up the ghost and like you know it feels like every kid at least even in the Simpsons assumed economic situation has an iPhone so Bart just has to have an iPhone. But that's not the type of thing Graney wanted for the characters back in the beginning. They ripped off the band-aid with Homer's website episode with the computer, so they should be allowed to have a computer whenever they want now. And so Marge decides on the topic of her book saying like,

Wailing, nobody's ever done that. A very great joke about how Moby Dick and then thank you scene from Moby Dick puts the topper on it. Yes. You know, I told myself I'd read that in lockdown, and I did not. One of these days. Well, I finally read Dune, and it's basically the same thing. There's a giant sandworm instead of a giant whale. They're basically the same book. But doesn't Paul Atreides successfully catch his Moby Dick?

That's true, but then there's like eight more Dune books, and frankly, I can't be bothered. So maybe the story about pride cometh before the fall, I think that eventually pans out for Paul. Personally, I'm waiting for Christopher Nolan to make the story about pride cometh before the fall, I think that eventually pans out for Paul. Personally, I'm waiting for Christopher Nolan to make a movie about it, then I'll pay attention. Ha ha ha ha. This is where Marge writes her first. The Simpsons writers who are such great writers,

they are always good at writing bad writing. This is very good. They identified two of the best writers of bad writing for Marge's first sentence, which we used as the opening sound, but swim, swim, swim, they said is Dan Graney, and flapping his floppers, they credit to George Meyer. And chapter one starts in beginnings.

When they said Meyer helped with that, it made me go like, oh, I thought he had kinda sorta quit. I think it was post-movie is when he leads down. Yeah, this really nails a lot of the procrastination that's built into the writing process where you're trying to do everything but the actual writing. You're like, what else can I do that's technically writing

but it's not writing the thing I need to write? And then there's other things like Brownie Break, running spell check, all the little things you can do outside of your actual task. To be honest, I thought Marge actually got started a lot faster than I do sometimes when I'm writing things, because I was like, why isn't Marge just staring at the cursor for at least five minutes before typing anything? Like, she actually did kind of get going quickly.

Did Marge predict NaNoWriMo? Anybody? National Novel Writing Month. Oh, right. That one seems as much as an assignment as like those 24-hour comic days that some online artists put themselves through. It coincides with NoFap November so you can get a lot done in that time period. You gotta use those risks for something. Yes. The danger of brownie breaks is why I don't have the brownies in here anymore in my house to distract me now. I at least feel proud of myself if my procrastination from say

writing notes or doing research is cleaning the apartment or like doing the dishes or like unloading the dishwasher. I at least try to have the brandy breaks be productive breaks now. We see that Marge after that first paragraph she gets on to the thank-yous. Mayor Quimby, Disco Stu, and our fighting men and women overseas. Well, I finished the thank yous. Time to go back to the novel. Cameron Sparrow stared at the sea like a dog stares at a ham. Oh, I just finished my first paragraph. Spell check.

Perfect. Now let's see if lightning strikes twice. Where to, Mac? For the third time, the hospital. You're in ambulance, not a taxi. Hospital, eh? Well, everyone's going there tonight. Dad, you've been driving in circles for 20 minutes.

Why don't you just admit you don't know where the hospital is? Why don't you admit I know it's around here somewhere? I think, well, we already recorded it, but Marginal Mist History Tour comes next, right? Yes. And this is like giving us another little slice of that where it's the Simpsons characters in a historical setting, and basically adds up to this one act of a show if you add all the pieces together. And it basically adds up to this one act of a show if you add all the pieces together. It does work really well in this example

where this is such a down-to-earth episode where she's just sitting at a computer and having this little fantasy in the middle that we can cut between works really well as a nice change of pace. They even changed this sequence to something different later. So I don't know, the first act was kind of ridiculous,

but the second act does need something surreal in here. I like these visions of it though. Yeah, now you make a good point, Bob. It is funny in the air order. They do this one right before they air Marginal History Tour, which is all, you know, stories set in specific times and places. Though I guess that one pulls directly from history while this is more of a pastiche of a specific

Setting but not a real thing that happened I really love from a character point of view of just listening to Marge go through her writing process You know what? I mean like this is like probably like the cutest part of this episode in terms of like Marge is so likable and just any anytime you put her in front of a computer like funny things will happen that she's just so Quick and eager to spell check in a weird way. It says something about Marge's creative process listening to her work through this thing Yeah, she's so confident. It's so charming because no longer professional writer here. I do it occasionally

But when I would do it, I would just hate everything that came out of me And then I would say well, I guess I have to publish this. And then I would read the same thing five years later, and I would think, what happened to this guy? He was great. Yeah, like Marge is still in her. I'm new to writing, and I'm super passionate about it. And like, I don't have like that writer's block.

I'm not in my head about it anymore. It's just fun seeing how passionate and new she is to something that she's enjoying right here. Clearly did not have an editor, because there are several mistakes that characters will point out later in the episode. It's fun seeing how passionate and new she is to something that she's enjoying right here. Clearly did not have an editor because there are several mistakes that characters will point out later in the episode. Yes. Yeah, later it seems like it's not exactly self-publishing, but at the publishing house that Esme Delacroix runs, she doesn't employ too many editors. Is that author like, is she running some weird scam? Like, is she scamming authors, trying to hook them a little bit and to get in them to write? And then since she's the only author they know, she's going to offer them some crappy book deal.

I think she's looking for budding ghost writers. Oh, just like Tom Clancy. Like Tom Clancy, yes. If you go to any used bookstore, look at the sheer amount of series he has and see how many of them he's actually written. Marge is writing this right before the era of the self-published novel, which is just Amazon just is all of those things that now the AI days I would think that AI in quotes written that's not real, it's

slopped just to be clear, but technically I would think that thanks to that there's a lot of unreadable self-published books at your fingertips. Yeah, not Amazon now We have self-written novels, which just they make themselves and they're all great and I get lots of ads for them on Facebook What is this Facebook thing you're still on? Oh, it's because other people I know never went anywhere else if I leave they'll just all vanish It's how I check in on older relatives. If my mom is competing in a pickleball tournament in her local community, I'll learn about it there and nowhere else. Yeah, eventually people lose stamina to go to a new platform because I was like, okay, Facebook bad, over to Twitter. Twitter's bad, over to Blue Sky. Now I think

I'm just going to be spinning my wheels on Blue Sky, so nothing bad ever better not happen there. Somebody should invent a website where you can keep up with your family and see what they're up to. That would be cool. It's on them to make their own websites. I also like that Homer almost is giving himself a third job. That even though he is still an ambulance driver the rest of this episode, he thinks it's now the plot of,

Homer becomes a taxi driver. And this has to be Comic Book Guy's third heart attack in the show, right? I know they're pretty frequent. Definitely in worst episode ever, he has a heart attack. The episode is about that, right? In a few episodes, I guess we're going to see him have sex with Edna.

So we've got that to look forward to. Yeah. Jim, I think that's your second, but you didn't do a worst one for 15. Is that one second to the UI episode? Oh yeah, of season 15 for sure. Like that episode, I don't know, it has some things going for it in like the first half with Skinner's like cold feet.

But yeah, that one goes off the rails immediately and then ends at that Comic Con stuff. Oh, just terrible. I'm not gonna go on the fandom thing, but like a lot of people really like the Skinner Edna thing, so that is not a popular episode already because it broke them up. But then like it's not even really executed that well. So yeah, I would put that bottom two for sure. And so Marge's story, Lisa Kaya and Bartleby. Right. I like how Lisa Kaya, Marge is seemingly thinking of the word a fortnight, but instead she writes a one month.

Like, that's a word like fortnight. Bad writing joke too. Seven of her ten children died, right, is what she said? Yeah. I mean, Marge must be a history buff too, because she does have a lot of good specifics of this era of like, whalingailing Nantucket and all that. Yeah. But she doesn't know that Nantucket is an island though.

Hey, she did research after the fact. She had an atlas handy. I guess Maggie exists in this world, but we don't learn her Moby Dick style name. I'm sure she's working the mines or something right now. Then Homer's character comes in, later to be named Mordecai, though I think of this, the good version is a nice guy to be named Mordecai though I think of this the good version is a nice guy not Named to Mordecai. I don't think she says the name of the good Homer, right? I don't think so. Oh, yeah

Yeah, he only becomes Mordecai later. Maybe that was always his name Maybe though I love like Homer is a perfect guy with no problems Like this is how it also shows that Marge is writing like a bad book because it's like and then her happy husband came home and everything's great like there's no drama or tension here he also gives sir tobacco which he just bites directly into and browns her teeth that's a little pose March smiling for the camera with her tobacco stained teeth is a funny drawing that's gonna be you guys's the avatar for this episode right it really should be Henry does the cover art for talking Simpsons, so.

I think I made it already, but you know what? I'm gonna take that under advisement. I think that is a good one. Okay, I apologize to all your listeners if you're looking at that right now. Ha ha ha. This is where Homer breaks all the happiness as Marge then edits her book.

And for you, good wife, Virginia's miracle crop, tobacco. Oh, it has colored my teeth a healthy brown. Was there ever a more perfect husband than you? Marge, I'm back. Oh, homie, I've had the most exciting day. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I need some dinner stat. And the kids need some CPR lessons.

We're not paramedics. I'll say. Oh, good. You can use that to take down my dinner order. I'll start with the soup and a nice mixed grill with a side of wild rice. Fine. Right after this revision, Temperance

had to face the unhappy truth. She had married a brute. Hey, baby. I've returned from Portsmouth. Now let me put my tongue down your mouth. Now cook up my catch. A seagull? The whales weren't biting, okay? I know you did your best.

Yeah, yeah. You know everything, don't you? I gotta give her credit, that port myth and your myth, that is a good pun. Marge got some skills there. Yeah, I think on the commentary one of the writers says, the people never comment on all the jokes in Marge's novel. That's true. I love that he's now just Homer at his worst and the way he's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, you know everything right, when she's just trying to comfort him. That is

such a perfect jerk writing, too. I love how much faster she starts writing immediately once Homer comes in. It's like her life does inspire her to write even faster than before. Well, she's driven by spite for Homer. That's her creative juicier thing. Her real life is making her a better novelist. See, like, pain does inspire true art. Also, the implication that Bart and Lisa have seen at least one person die while trying to give CPR.

So there's a lot more death here you can infer. Why did he even take Bart and Lisa along for the ride? Is it because they have nothing to do in this episode? I guess so. Usually Bart's the buddy for these adventures. I don't know why Lisa's there. You know Lisa's there because like when things are going down, when like people are dying, like you'd want Lisa there instead of Bart. That's true. Maybe there's something in it for her. And of course they deliver Homer's what he caught is a dead seagull, which hey,

you know what? This is a perfect time to play a certain jingle. seagull which hey you know what this is a perfect time to play a certain jingle everybody hates birds right we're gonna say natural causes for this guy but the jingle was still appropriate we didn't actively see the bird being killed but definitely Homer killed it though also I guess Mordecai is such a bad provider that he probably just fished a dead seagull out of the ocean and brought I think so I think so then he's gonna head over to Moab's instead of Moa's. A good gag too. This is where Marge makes a great comment.

I love, this is as dark as those new Milky Way bars. That's a great line. So were there new Milky Way's, like dark chocolate ones that had just come out in like 2005 or 2004? That's a good question. The history of Milky Way bars has been poorly documented online and very disappointed in the Milky Way community. Do better.

But as far as I know, Milky Way had a dark version. Sorry, Milky Way had a dark version up through the 80s. It went away and then it came back in the aughts as Milky Way Midnight. And I believe it's still available, but it was a rebranding of an older candy bar, let's say. I did a tiny bit. The best dates I could find was that Milky Way Dark was released in 89 or late 80s at

least. But you're right, Bob. The candy community is they make the Simpsons wiki look good by comparison. The 1989 Milky Way Dark, I remembered it because it was my brother's favorite chocolate bar. I'd get a Twix and he'd get a Milky Way Dark. That was his favorite. And so we were definitely paying attention when Dark became Midnight, which I think is a cooler name.

I think the problem is kids today don't want Milky Way. They want Galaxy Gas. I think the Milky Way Midnight is vastly superior to a regular Milky Way. I think it's got white, it has vanilla nougat along with the dark chocolate coating, which I think is a better combo. For me, any time dark chocolate is the replacement

for milk chocolate, it's an upgrade. That's my preferred chocolate. Okay, this just sounds like a Malins bar without coconut in it, like is what I'm picturing right now. The vanilla nougat, I'm telling you, it's great. It combos with the caramel well. They'll also, if I'm ranking Milky Way bars, I also like there's a Milky Way bar

that is just the regular Milky Way plus the caramel that is in a Milky Way and nothing else. I think it's just called Milky Way caramel. So it goes for me, Milky Way dark, then below that, caramel, and then regular Milky Way. The real question is why didn't the Simpsons writers get a giant box in Milky Way bars when they wrote this joke? I think they did complain about that actually. It's funny They said we didn't get that but we got a lot of merch from the TV show Cheaters when they mentioned it on the show

I just covered that episode in the season 19 retrospective So that was top of mind, but they said they got a whole bunch of main potatoes in the commentary, too And that one I can't connect with where that yeah, I wonder which reference that in the commentary too. That one I can't connect with where that came from. Yeah, I wonder which reference that inspired that shipment. I believe the Milky Way, I think, if it didn't turn 100 last year, it's then this year. It definitely was in the mid-1920s,

though Butterfinger last year celebrated its 100th anniversary, which I only knew because that's why the Simpsons got put back on a Butterfinger bar for an advertisement to celebrate 100 years. Wait, but Butterfinger's really a hundred years old, really? Yeah, yeah, actually Milky Way came out the same year, so 1924 was the dawn of Butterfinger and Milky Way.

Okay, so people have been picking garbage out of their teeth since the 20s? But because it was the 20s, they were full of heroin and glass and scraps of metal and other things. As long as there was heroin and glass and scraps of metal and other things. As long as there's heroin and glass I suppose. It's so funny the Roaring Twenties were so crazy they're like you know what what if we did a thing that wasn't just chocolate as a candy bar let's see if we can sell it. What if you could have out of space in your mouth? So Marge is seeing that it's just dark and depressing with her horrible husband and this is when a certain stud detector enters the store as Ned walks by the window for a

very dirty joke. He'll say, you look like you could use a nice big stud detector. And a passing mention of Krusty Home Depot, which is a fun rebranding of that store. I didn't get that joke. Why is it a Krusty branded Home Depot if they're just going to call it Home Depot? It just feels like a joke about not writing a funny store name. Yeah, maybe it's uncreated intentionally

is the best they got on there. But I also like that we've mentioned it before, but in George W. Bush era of conservative Christian stuff, this is when Ned takes a more like aggressive Christian stance of cavemen didn't exist in this case. I really liked how excited Marge was to get that stud detector as well, where she's like, oh, that's so thoughtful of you.

I guess if you're being polite, you're like, yay, a stud detector. But she really does seem to be very meaningful for her that she got that stud detector. That's how little she gets from Homer. She is in need of a stud detector. So this is when Marge feels free to imagine sex with somebody who happens to look like Ned.

Though honestly her buffer version of Ned is I'd say at best 5% buffer than Ned is drawn in things like Streetcar. I would say it's less buff. Like I saw him in was a star is born again also season 14 I guess last season and that guy is jacked in that episode. Hmm. I guess he's normally wearing that puffy sweater So whenever he's wearing like thinner material a little more form-fitting you could definitely see how ripped he is Oh, yeah When it's the morning after with his movie star and he's shirtless and that I'd say he is as buff as his

Imagination version is for Marge or Buffer. Marge, you need to use your imagination better, come on. And yes, and this, she's got a nice New England hum. I love that Marge's subconscious knows that Nantucket is an island, but she has to look it up to confirm. It was in there somewhere.

At the risk of sounding a little risque here, I think Marge's imagination would make Ned's penis smaller, just out of practicality. I think you've had to address that from time to time on your videos. I put that screenshot in all the time, and I can comment every single time. It's trolling at this point.

Although, do you think Homer told Marge about it? No, he very likely didn't. Although wasn't Lisa editing that video anyway? There's a lot of bad things going on in this episode and that episode. So I would assume Marge doesn't know. They saw the original footage. No pun intended. Lisa was doing the star wipes. So she's the one who knows how to add a mosaic too, which would mean she would see the unedited footage. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. And with Marge, like not to get ahead of ourselves, but with Marge having Lisa read her trashy novel about her and Flanders, like how much therapy is Lisa going to need after all this? She's been planning her first therapy session for years now at this point in the show. Yeah.

Yeah. So Marge imagines a character like her having an affair with a man like Ned. And this is another one where like I had to clip it. This line I was like, whoa, this is way dirtier than I remembered this line. We talk about hats being removed. I've never met a man like you. You listen to what I say. Your body has known the cleansing touch of soap. Prithee, tell me thou art not a sodomite. Nope, not even a gemorrean. Oh, temperance, I've got an overpowering urge to see you with your hat off.

I can't. I must remember my wedding vows. Did you promise to be miserable, to be taken for granted by a drunken lout? Pretty much. We wrote our own vows. Enough talk. I need to see how you look. Up there!

I think my mother had one of those. I'm finished! And it's so suggestive. But like they say, snuggling cells. Now, do I dare push print? Mmm. Whoa. God. There's so much horniness packed into that clip, so if I could just take a few things

apart here. The, are you a sodomite? Nope, not even a gamorrean. I think that is saying no butt stuff, no oral sex. I think he's drawing distinctions between what a sodomite is Nope, not even a Gamorrean. I think Ned is saying no butt stuff, no oral sex. I think he's drawing distinctions between what a sodomite is and what a Gamorrean is. And then I wanna see what you look like up there. It's a Marge hair joke, but it's also kind of like

an erection joke too, at the same time. When he says to think my mother had one of those, like that sounds like a man who is seeing his first female genitalia for the first time, or like a vagina for the first time. Yeah, that's about right. Marge did write some psychological things going on with her male love interest character,

and it's in a very repressed time, too. She kind of, in a weird way, she kind of nailed the repressedness of it, but it's still very bizarre. And to just listen to it closely without the visual, Kavner is playing this grade of like Marge is really like hot and bothered by this scene. Like she's like, ooh I'm finished and then do I dare press the print button? But I guess the old-school printer is one of their ways to keep them kind of stuck in the past.

Even though she needs a computer to write this, it's still the dot matrix printer that's very loud. Yeah I I have to say on the podcast, listening to the clip back instead of watching it, like listening to her kind of breathy voice and then her clicking the printer button and the printing and everything, it did sound a lot more suggestive without the visuals. It did make me wonder though,

like I've never written a romance novel, I'm sure Bob's written several at this point. But like. Yeah, but I'm a ghost writer. It's true. Exactly. Do romance novelists, when they're writing their material, do they stand up afterward and sip their lemonade

very satisfidely at what they just thought of in their head? I feel like maybe your first time out it's exciting, but then once you do it, once in book form, you're like, it's very rote, it's like, all right, they've done this, now they're gonna do this, and then it's exciting, but then once you do it once in book form you're like it's very road It's like all right. They've done this now They're gonna do this and then it's gonna funnel into that they have to like fill in all the blanks essentially in terms of what kinds Of sex haven't happened yet in this novel. Yeah, because it's all coming from Marge's mind It's like Marge's fantasy, so it's already in there

But it does seem like she's enjoying it a lot like her own writing I guess it's a good thing if you're enjoying your own writing to that degree. It just seems kind of strange how much Marge enjoys her very suggestive writing. I feel good for Marge that she gets to like be a sexual being and feel herself. I don't mean it that way, but that she gets to express this side of herself she doesn't, but still keeps it, I mean she even calls it snuggling cells, she doesn't say sex cells,

so she still is calling it snuggling, and seemingly after the hat is removed, I don't think they, later she is pregnant with his child, so they must, they did have sex for sure, but it's more about hat removal here. Okay, here's a question. How trashy do you think Marge's novel is? Like, because Marge is a very, you know,

she's a very nice person, like we don't think of her that way, but clearly this is a very scandalous novel that other people read and everybody's very interested. Do you think Marge wrote an extremely trashy novel or is this just trashy by Marge's standards? She could have learned it all from that Act 1 author all of the different sex tips, sex tricks, all of the thesaurus of words like though I'm taking that that's a joke from the Ten

Things I Hate About You movie I remember Alison Janney's character is writing one of these novels and is trying to there's great jokes of that she needs a thesaurus to find other words for boner. Oh yeah, what's another word for engorged, right? Tumnescent. That's how I learned the word is from that movie. I'm glad they go to commercial on this one because this is where our second deleted scene was, where they would have gone back to Homer on this commercial break. So this is the other deleted scene. To describe what happens before the clip plays, it's all silent again. Homer driving his ambulance right up to the typical Springfield ER entrance.

He has a cooler in his hand. Seemingly he is delivering a liver transplant or something like that. He bursts into a room where Dr. Hibbert is performing surgery on Krusty the Clown. And then this happens. Homer, this is a roast beef sandwich. I ordered pastrami. I had the roast beef. Just stick it in my stomach.

Not the whole sandwich. What am I, a pig? So there you go. Not bad. I get the sense they were kind of bored by the Homer ambulance plot line though, with both of these cut jokes. Look, Homer invented Door Dash.

Yeah, I hear they're making a sandwich delivery guy instead of, before they're like, yeah, he's more like a taxi driver. They're not that interested in actually having him helping anybody or watching dead bodies even. Is this the end of Homer's plot anyway? Now that Marge's story is going on, is there really an ending other than him

confronting Ned? Like nothing really happens in his plot. Like there's no structure to it. This is like one of Marge's novels. Yeah, these plots don't collide at any point. And Homer never gets fired from it or gets his job back. Though this is hardly the first Homer gets a new job story that ends with Homer getting his job back They're far past addressing that at the end of a Homer gets a new job episode And yet this B plot was strong enough to spawn the whole episode Supposedly, can you guys think of it? Okay? Here's another random question Can you guys think of a more pointless B plot than this one?

Especially like a Homer one because I'm really struggling here of anything that makes this little of an impact to a story. Yeah, it does feel kind of like a season four B-plot. Less funny though, in that it exists in a vacuum and occasionally other characters will check in on the B-plot, but it never adds up to anything really. Yeah, and it took like three plot points to get to this plot, you know, to get Homer in the ambulance, and then we don't have anything to do with the ambulance

other than like Homer just being dismissive to Marge and then chasing Ned at the end. This is no Homer is a sugar salesman as far as the unrelated Homer gets a job B-plot stories. Or a lard thief as well. We come back from commercial break. Lisa has read the book, which most eight-year-olds should not read their mothers during books.

But Lisa's... She's wise beyond her years. Even though her libido is still chained up, she understands a lot. With all the boyfriends the writers have given her, I do not believe that joke these days. Like the writers have opened that cage several times. Our friends on Gayest Episode Ever, Drew, Mackie, they did the episode that was the

Heavenly Creatures parody and I believe Drew got a comment from the writer of that episode who said it is one of the writers who tries to steer other writers away from Lisa or Bart getting girlfriend or boyfriend stories because he wants to remind them like these are eight and ten year olds. They shouldn't have boyfriend or girlfriend yeah I think your Lee Smith even doesn't like getting the least has a boyfriend stories yeah they go to that well a lot it's a very strange especially for Lisa I mean Bart's only ten as well but like they love just doing like teenager storylines for Lisa it's pretty weird well I mean yard, even going back to like season two, hated

Cory jokes, I think. I'm pretty sure she did not like that Lisa had a crush on Cory. Though speaking of Yardley, I clipped this one out in an episode that Lisa doesn't have much to do in. She gets to show a lot of range by literally playing other emotions. Yardley gets to play a lot in this scene. Well, what do you think? Hmm. I can't believe Mom wrote a book before we did. And it's a little trashy. Mom has expressed herself. We should nurture her.

Let's kiss boys. Binge and purge, rock and roll. You're not getting out till we're 16. Ah, I have a sketch. Ah! I'm proud of you, Mom. But just one thing. Isn't your book a little hard on Dad?

What do you mean? My book is set in wailing times. Captain Mordecai stared at the shop window full of powdered blowholes. Mmm, blowholes, he drooled. Sounds like Dad to me. Well, I guess that part is loosely based on your father. Maybe you should let dad read your book before you submit it to publishers.

I suppose I better. Your father's a very private person. Barge, we're out of bath towels! Ice cream truck! So, getting out in front of this. Getting out in front of this. Did the Simpsons predict Inside Out? Oh, and folks don't worry, I already drank the poison. I'll be dead soon. It's true. This is a predictive moment, isn't it? Yeah. Hey, if you missed Herman's head, it was gone for a decade. You get a little bit more of

that here. And Yardley Smith, she was a cast member. So there you have it. At least predicted Inside Out 2, I think, given the plots of those movies. Actually, they even have the joke about about nostalgia is the chained up thing. The libido, actually I guess the libido is also sort of chained up in the story too. It's almost like Inside Out is an extremely obvious concept. No. That's been done a lot. No, be quiet.

I'm suing them anyway. Hey Bob, $2 billion in ticket sales can't be wrong. That's right, yeah. More money equals better than, we've covered it. I also like that Lisa, it's a role reversal. Her mother is showing her her first book, and Lisa is like, I should only, like let's not give her any negative notes,

I only want to support her creativity. That's such a funny, like this is normally what the little kid would be doing for the mom in most stories. And just, I want to comment on the different Lisas that we see in her brain. I love the kind of UPA style they're doing. They're not pushing it super far,

but they're pushing it far enough. They're just very funny, different variants of Lisa that are different colors. I do like these characters. I like that you can definitely tell which ones like with the sizes which one is her. I guess it is like Inside Out in the sense in that one of them is definitely at the helm of Lisa more than the others. To take seriously the thing Bob was goofing on to about those like predictive things I

mean this is pulling from the UPA style of like Inside Your Brain or these things just like Inside Out was taking the same inspiration too, I'm sure. Though I can't think of a specific UPA short for this, but I'll leave that for our many animation expert commenters that we have to help with that. Oh also, this has to be like the fourth time Homer's been nude outside intentionally,

though he's not exposing himself to Maude like he was when he was a hippie, of course. Instead to a bunch of people getting ice cream instead. That has to involve children seeing him then, doesn't it? It being an ice cream truck. I assume this would be the act break, but there's still a lot more to go in act two. I'm just glad that we got to this joke before Janet Jackson ruined everything. Haha, you're right.

They'd have had to digitally censor it it or they would have had to cut this joke and instead have that pastrami sandwich joke. So this is where Homer is approached by Marge. He's singing a fun little tune to the parodying his Weird Al version of Gary Newman's Cars. I especially like how he's getting to the end of his verse and then says, here's Marge, and she walks over to him. Maybe it's just full of organs and blood.

Homer has killed dozens at this point. Yes, there's a lot of death loves. Just her negligence, I suppose, that active. I mean, I guess let's call it manslaughter instead of murder. How about that? See, aren't we glad that he took Bart and Lisa along? Actually, between Marge's smutty novel about her dad and seeing like dead people in the ambulance, she's really gone through it this episode. Bart and Lisa have seen a lot in this one. So Homer has offered up the manuscript and Marge says it's important to him.

And this is where the Colonel's wife or the short story Selman brings up really comes into play, right Bob? Yeah, the plot points are the same in that the woman in the book or in the story writes a bunch of poetry that heavily references her bad husband and he pretends to read it. And she's like, there's nothing wrong with this, right? You're okay with it. He's like, yeah, I'm fine with it. And then it gets published and it's a huge scandal. And so they're really mirroring that story here. Okay. So that's almost like exactly the same then. Yeah, that was Selman's point.

Selman couldn't recall if it came that way or if he or someone else suggested, hey, take this bit of not reading it from this short story. I like that Marge at least has the self-awareness that, because when she was writing it, it's just kind of a fantasy, it's just coming from her brain,

but she does have the self-awareness to acknowledge that, oh, this is about Homer. Like even when Lisa confronts her about it, like she already kind of knew it was coming, which is why she probably had Lisa read it. But I do like there's at least that little bit of self-awareness from Marge that she doesn't want to hurt Homer's feelings. I do like Marge's knowing laugh of like, what, huh? It's good too. This is where Homer accepts doing it, though only when he learns it's double spaced. And so he's halfway through. And also, you and me, Bob, we recently

were asked to read a manuscript. And we actually did read it and send notes to the person. Yes, not double spaced. But it was totally worth the ride. We'll tell you someday. I did feel like there was some commentary in here about the writers being told to read manuscripts and scripts a lot in here and trying to motivate yourself to do it. That's a good point actually. Yeah,

they're probably asked all of the time read this script and give me notes kind of thing. Yeah, just for Al Jean's job, including I guess for hiring Robin J Stein as well, you have to read submissions from potential either hires or freelancers and have to read so many things and give notes. Though in this case, Homer really does try. He gives up very quickly, but he actually does try instead of like, I feel like a season 10 Homer throws this in the garbage immediately and actively does it. Yes.

Oh, this is definitely that softer Homer that at least makes a small effort before, like in this case he just falls asleep, right? Well, he falls asleep and then he finds a new distraction. This is the other really good Suicide Hotline joke in this season. I think it's an earlier one in the season where Homer, he's despondent for some reason, he sees the Suicide Hotline billboard,

he goes, that's it, suicide. Yes. And in this joke, he is apparently a nuisance to the Suicide Hot billboard, he goes, that's it, suicide. Yes, that's a good joke. And in this joke, he is apparently a nuisance to the suicide hotline in that he calls them with random observations. This is why Mo probably tried calling the suicide hotline earlier when he instead had to call the pizza place later.

Now Homer can just pull up this bullshit on his phone and be distracted by it without having to bother the suicide hotline. But yeah, I think Homer, I always think of this as like Al Jean's perfect vision of Homer and what makes him a bad husband because a major moment in the Simpsons movie is that why does Homer do dumb stuff that Marge tells him specifically not to do? It's because he's impatient and just easily distracted. He's not actively a jerk.

He's just an easily distracted guy He's not actively a jerk. He's just an easily distracted guy who wants to rush through things. That I think is definitely the Al Jean view of Homer. Not a mean father who is actively mean and will tell Marge to her face, eh, I don't care about any of the things you like. The whole Lamaze thing. This is more the Homer just like has extreme impatience. He's lazy. He's still deceptive, but he realizes, I know what I'm doing, but I'm gonna like, live in the moment. Yeah.

Yeah, it definitely feels like they're already reeling him in from the scully days. What do you guys think? This is a more well-rounded Homer. I think modern day Homer today would kind of feel like this as well. Homer has gotten thoughtful to the point of almost not being himself sometimes, where I'm like,

oh, he's really thoughtful here. It's hard for there to be a problem. There's sometimes a bit of the jerk-ass Homer, whatever you want to refer to that as, will pop up. We covered the London episode on the DVDs he calls Madonna a bitch, which is so unlike Homer, but they just had a lot of venom for Madonna. So occasionally you will see a little bit more mean-spirited Homer, a Homer that is being hurtful intentionally with malice, but Al Jean is rolling it back to he is you know basically a dog and he's gonna get into trouble but then he'll be sorry in the end. Yeah they are hitting a really nice

balance now that we're talking about it of because Homer is not like perfect or anything in this episode they are giving us that streetcar vibe of he's not thoughtful. Like he is creating that conflict where Marge wouldn't like him in the novel, but he's not monstrous like the novel. And obviously they play with that in the ending with the chase scene with Ned, but they are hitting a pretty nice balance of Homer being a little tiny bit jerk ass of not paying attention to her but establishing that no this is season 15 and we have evolved Homer a little bit. I guess actually to get like bigger picture meta on this Mordecai the character in the

book could be their commentary on this characterization is jerk ass Homer and if Homer could see jerk ass Homer he would hate that guy. This whole episode is secretly about jerk ass Homer right? Just like the movie. You know I think it's same too when we did Al Jean's technically first back one where Delroy Lindo is the guest star who like arrests the family and tells them how crazy they've gotten and how insane the show is, that one is a very in your face, we're addressing the concerns people have

of how far we've taken these characters. Did they address the concerns though, did they in that episode? Well, the end of that episode they drug a woman. Yeah. You can hear us talk about it, it's not a great start to the Al Jean run, I think they corrected, but boy,

some ugly stuff happens in Act Three that it feels like on par with Panda love or perhaps below I won't say below Panda love. It's a secret Panda love that no one talks about I guess the charitable way to say is that maybe they were just trying to clean up some messes in that episode sure So here Homer they have a good gag of him pretending He read the book the eye movement gag is a funny gag not hard to play a clip of because it's just ten seconds of silence But it's a good gag of just how obviously Homer is lying and Marge doesn't pick up on it That joke is so weird when it came up because they do it twice with Homer and then they do it once with Bart later And it's such a weird like because they could

just convey that he's just lying through his emotions but that they literally go that far with it. I kind of love the gag but every time I watch it I wonder. Yeah it's surprising and it might go on for a little bit too long but maybe it needs to because it's so bizarre just the one pupil vibrating violently inside of his eyeball. Yeah if they only did it half the time I think I I would hate it, but yeah, you're right. They actually commit to the weirdness and it circles back around to being good again. And this is a good season 15 episode.

I think it has an old timer from Homer and it goes as follows. Now for the happy period between the lie and the time it's found out. That feels like classic Homerism. It could have been in seasons three to eight and no one would have batted it out.

It sums up like Homer has been through this so many times that he's like, every lie I tell gets found out anyway, but time to just enjoy the part of lying. In our next clip here, after Homer has that great line, we then get a pair of cameos or that this episode had more guest stars in it than I remember, that's for sure. But it's all in the second half here. Hello. Marge, this is the best first novel my assistant has ever summarized for me.

Now all we need are some endorsements from famous writers. Here's your quote, Thomas Pinchon loved this book almost as much as he loves cameras. Hey over here have your picture taken with an occlusive author. Today only we'll throw in a free autograph but wait there's more. Oh fun fact about Tom Clancy that's how his video game series came about that phone call They're calling it one of the voice actors who did the worst job Yes, I would bet if he gave them more than ten minutes of his day I'd be surprised to hear that you want me to say what I would never say that

It is really stark because like I feel like Thomas Pinchon He gives like a legitimately good performance here where like he has kind of a fun voice already. He's got that kind of New York accent to him where like I could actually imagine him being a regular voice on The Simpsons. But then you go to Tom Clancy, who just sounds like nothing. Sounds like me trying to voice act. And he comes back in the following season because Matt Groening didn't get a chance to meet him. That's the joke. But I think it's true. If he was game to come back, sure, they invited him back. I checked and I will get to that when we do that episode, chance to meet him. That's the joke, but I think it's true. If he was game to come back, sure they invited him back. I checked, and I will get to that when we do that episode, but I did check that

it's the last or second to last one of the production for this season, so clearly when this script came back and they landed, Pinchon, that's when Matt Groening is like, hey, bring him back! Like, I didn't get to meet him. And if you're not 70 years old, you might not know that his appearance in the show is a parody of the unknown comic from the Gong Show, popularized by the Gong Show. The writer himself is famous for Gravity's Rainbow and Inherent Vice which that got turned to a movie. He's a beloved writer like a very celebrated writer. Literally the only thing I know about Thomas Pinchon is from his Simpsons episodes which is really sad probably. Now I think I watched

this and then the next year in one of my English classes I read the crying of Lot 49 in college. That's as far as I went with him but I will say he's a real English major-y writer and not really for the mainstream. And how they got him is his tale as old as time. An old man had a son who likes the Simpsons and told that his father to do it so he did. And then Al Jean says that he recorded with him in person in New York and that he does look like an older version of his 1953 picture that's out there. He'd never let himself be taken photographed though. Paparazzos in 2018 were able to snap a pic of him. I saw the pic he's a very

old man with a cane being bothered by people taking photos and I'm just like, it's just like how Gene Hackman, leave these old old men alone. They don't want to have their pictures taken. But if you ever wonder what he looked like 15 years after he recorded this episode, I guess you can find that picture online. And Tom Clancy is one of the guys who would play himself after already appearing on the show as a caricature. He was an insane clown poppy. That's right. At that book fair.

Probably Hank Azaria. Oh, he was? Well, I guess it was Hank Azaria playing him. But when they go to the book convention, he's one of the authors there. And I think there's a joke about him in his books. They tease he's going to be asked about Black Hawk helicopters, but they're actually

asking Maya Angelou about it. I think that was the joke, right? Yeah, I think so. I think so. Though, I mean, as far as a line written for him that sounds bad, I do like the writing of that just gets in his, the names of his books, Hunt for Red October and Clear and Present Danger, that they get both of those in there. He died in 2013. His estate is still publishing Tom Clancy books to this day and I forgot that it was five years before he died in 2008 is when Ubisoft bought perpetual rights to his name for games books and movies I think they might have spent too much because they're not doing very well are they now I think the last one they

made was like a 2019 and I mean they're so forgettable but every and I say this is a person who's played good chunk of like so forgettable, but every, and I say this as a person who's played a good chunk of like Assassin's Creed games, but every Ubisoft game just feels the same. You don't need like the Tom Clancy branding for them. It's all just the same like Ubisoft open world loaf that comes out of the Ubisoft machine. Well, if everyone doesn't buy the next Assassin's Creed,

there will not be a Ubisoft anymore. They're in trouble, they're in trouble. Not to get too gamery here, but yeah, they're definitely in trouble. And Selman has a very funny story on the commentary about meeting a snooty guy at a party and bragging that he had talked to Thomas Pinchon on the phone while the snooty dude was writing a paper on him and could never reach him. Yeah, and to be fair, the guy was very dismissive of Selman writing for television and he was one of those I don't even own a television guys so he was waiting to pounce on him with the information that

I talked to him today, Thomas Pynchon. How many of those cards does he just hold against his chest every time he's out and about with people in terms of guest stars that Matt Selman or some of the other Simpsons writers have met? Well, I think too because his wife is you know very committed to cancer charities and has you know Probably hosts a lot of events so he probably runs into a lot of people in the like greater Los Angeles scene who are not just you know other comedy writers He goes in there is like oh, you're like the comedy writer nerd husband

And then he gets to show off with stuff like this yeah Matt Sillman will rip into you at a cancer charity dinner Don't worry about it. I mean to be honest when you're like have started running the Simpsons I feel like you got enough credibility by then or you can start like you can start having some credibility at that point He's a regular doughboys listener someday. I hope to know what did he think of our doughboys episode? I wonder yes We have our two big well two of the four big guest stars in this episode here, just for a nothing scene of just like joke about writer endorsements. So Marge is doing this right. She found one writer to give her a big boost in the industry.

Like this is how podcasting works too. You find like the Chapo Trap House or Esme Delacroix, they give you a boost. Yeah, yeah. Marge is really great at networking. One end that like Esme clearly is great at networking too that she can get these quotes. I guess she tricks Tom Clancy into the quote, but still she's able to get them. The more we get into this, the more I'm convinced that Marge made exactly zero money and the publisher took all the money from her. Well, she was like Homer and then she

forgot to ask for money. Yes. There's also a really great joke of when we see how they're advertising it, there's a big a big you know basically like the Fabio romance cover Illustration for it which shows everybody we've only seen it in Marge's head where every character looks like somebody she knows or herself But we see the artist rendering we see what they thought the characters look like and that don't look like Marge or Homer and Ed I kind of wish that they would have done the joke where the person kind of looks like Ned Flanders. Like that would make it a little more bizarre and weird, but I kind of wish they went that direction. And I like the copy on the billboard too. Loyal to her vows or loyal to her heart or loyal to a third thing. Then they remarked that Homer would never read the book, but what if they parody it on Mad

TV, which is then a real slam on Mad TV here, which was in its ninth season and had its 200th episode air around when this aired. Yeah, it would not be long for this world and it in 2009. And for as much as we made fun of it, there is no platform where you can make fun of celebrities or movies or TV shows anymore for the most part. So I feel like because everything is now like three companies, there's no more room for these parodies. They're simply too mean.

Was that a slam on Mad TV though? Cause I do feel like Bart would watch Mad TV and this is how he'd find out. I think pegging Homer as a Mad TV viewer is a slam. I mean, Mad TV, like it's a great gag too that they say, what if they did it on Saturday night live instead of Mad TV, but they're talking about their channel cohort? Yeah, I guess SNL does count but MADtv was just so cruel and mean in a way that few things were like in living color Was just as mean and we talked about this Henry You can't make fun of celebrities anymore like shows cannot be mean anymore because we're all in this together as part of three companies

Oh, yeah I mean I could do a whole hour on having just watched a bunch of Saturday Night Live 50th anniversary stuff this weekend, but definitely there's the feeling of they are so respectful to the celebs now who all come on. I mean, Lorne Michaels loves all the celebrities who he wants to hang out with. He loves the powerful, often regardless of political affiliations or anything, but I was thinking about how when Robert Smigel wrote on the show, he was meaner. Like we talked about it in the TV fun house thing.

They did an entire sketch about how Oprah's fake and probably gay and where their fake relationship with her boyfriend Stedman. And her boyfriend refuses to have sex with her. Yeah, that kind of meanness isn't really there anymore. And ManTV in 2004, much meaner than Saturday Night Live was then, for sure. Well, with season nine of ManTV, the biggest headline of it is, it's when Keegan-Michael Key and Jordan Peele joined the show. They did Mad TV for several years before getting

where they then got the Comedy Central show that is when they really became popular and famous. Nice. Yeah, and a lot of great voice actors came out of Mad TV, Key and Peele obviously, but the Dave Herman, Phil Lamar, Nicole Sullivan, there's a ton of great people that came out of that show. We were too mean to MADtv.

Did it have some clunkers and sketches that are insanely problematic now? Yes. But they had a good cast. They had a good cast. Does MADtv have like a lasting appeal? Are there like long lasting characters that came from MADtv or is it just kind of a relic at this point? I've never really watched it myself.

I mean maybe they've been forgotten, but everybody loved Miss Swan. Alex Borstein, that's another Matt CD voice actor. That's why he's our family guy, right? Yeah, yeah, exactly. And Stuart, the little boy played by an adult man. I think I have seen Stuart before. Whose catchphrase was no.

Right. And Artie Lang, he's still, I actually, another cast member, oh, God, she's in all the video games now. Like she was just in the Suicide Squad video game and she was in the Jedi Fallen Order games. Okay, I looked it up, listeners, and the actress I'm thinking of is Deborah Wilson.

Oh, there you go, yeah. She was, I believe, a season one star on Manned TV and currently I would say she is doing the best of the original cast of man TV Like she really isn't like every video game now and doing great like she is Seriously, if you think of her is just like oh everybody on man TV like wasn't funny You're not a good actor watch her in any of these video games She is she is like one of the best like motion captured face capture actors I've seen in video games these days.

Yeah, I'm a fan. So okay, but to get back into the episode, they do end the scene with a wonderful joke about Homer with another corpse. He didn't kill this guy, but I think it's the actually from the 300th episode we cover with Jim's, that's the junkie guy that lived near Bart's place and now he has seemingly died from drinking bleach. Right, I guess we don't know his fate, but it doesn't seem to be a lot in store for this guy after this ambulance ride. I guess this is my last talking Simpsons appearance because Junkie Guy has bought the farm.

We only want you for those episodes with Junkie Guy. We all loved him so much. Well, I guess speaking of dead characters, actually, let's play the clip because a classic Simpsons character returns from the dead in this episode. I love this book, Marge, very psychological. Dr. Marvin Monroe, I haven't seen you in years.

Oh, I've been very sick. If you ask me, this book sounds like Marge and Homer. No one asked you. Think about it. The boorish husband, the neglected wife, the sensitive hunk down the road. And on page 72, Tempris' name changes to Marge for three paragraphs. Despite how prickly I was about the show at this time, I thought the Marvin and Roe joke was very funny.

I have been very sick. I have to say when I saw this I was grumpy on first viewing but listeners may recall the episode before this is I annoyed grunt bot which made me much angrier about snowball 2 so my angers were probably exhausted then to not be as angry about the unkilling of Marvin Monroe. They eventually re-kill him because he's revealed to be dead in the episode Flanders Ladder many many years later. Yeah, because they did a Treehouse of Horror parody of the others where he shows up as a half ghost where they're not sure if he's dead or alive at that point. But I guess by Flanders Ladder he's officially dead.

I mean on the commentary, Al Jean also I get slightly grumpy out of these like you know he never said for sure and I'm like well okay sure fine a clip show maybe doesn't count for 138th that they were never popular but they called it the Marvin Monroe Memorial Hospital and Who Shot Mr. Burns Part 2 and you literally see his grave in Alone Again Natural Diddley. I guess that's true, yeah. Clearly Marvin Monroe faked his death in some kind of, like maybe his Dr. Marvin Monroe Center went on fire, and it was like an insurance fraud thing.

There's something going on here. I guess we never get a character saying it on the air outside of Hank's area as the announcer's saying. They were never popular. So there are signs indicating he's dead. I agree, I think he faked his own death. The grave is concrete enough for me, but you're right, a grave can be faked.

Many Simpsons characters have faked their death and had fake graves before, it's true. Oh, so Head Cannon, he was so sick that they broke ground on the Memorial Hospital and they built his grave and then he recovered. So these are just elements left in the world that he can walk by and laugh at. I survived, says Dr. Marvin Monroe,

but he would eventually die again. I mean, the Springfield medical community is kind of sketchy anyway, so I buy that. They have buried Mole Man many times when he wasn't dead, so it's also true. Yeah, and Mr. Burns was pronounced dead until he was moved to a better hospital. Did you guys even clock that he was dead at the time before the 138th episode

spectacular? Like, did you catch that? Who shot Mr. Burns? Because I remember when I was little being very surprised and confused by that joke. Yeah, I guess I don't know how I read it when I was 12 or whatever, but I just assumed like, oh, I guess they didn't like this character. I know I didn't miss an episode because I knew like what every episode was. So I thought like this must be a joke But if it's indicating something larger, I'm not sure Like I wondered if it was an episode that I just missed because he's with like bleeding gums Murphy who we did see die

So I really did wonder for a while because you know syndication is like they just show random episodes I really did wonder if there was a dr. Marvin Monroe death episode that I just never saw. The 138 confused the hell out of me and my brother when we watched it new and we're like, wait, this never happened, right? We did, despite the fact how closely we watched the show and in replays, we never caught that the Memorial Hospital gag in who shot Mr. Burns part two. I think I only read it in the first episode guide is when I knew that as why they said he was dead, that was the reference to it, which like, Al Jean seems kind of, he won't commit to why

they stopped doing Monroe, he doesn't say that it hurt Shearer's throat, he said on the commentary this time, he says that it's too similar to Otto was a reason he didn't want to do it. Hmm. Yeah, I think I've heard him say on the record before though that Harry sure didn't like doing the voice. Then on this commentary he says, well, he was kind of like a remote figure for the Simpsons in which they couldn't always

you know be with him. He was sort of like a celebrity in their world so he was phased out because you'd have to like call him or go to his office and it wasn't as direct a connection as Hibbert would be your Dr. Nick. Yeah, he's like why J. Lauren Pryor didn't show up for a while, you know? Yeah, in season one they both had big plans for both of those characters, like oh we're going to be seeing them a lot. Like I mean, he is in Some Enchanted Evening, the first planned episode, what is it, sort of the pilot for the show in planning, and they seem to think they were going to be calling

him a lot. But also, I think I've mentioned this before, but another fun fact about it is that originally, and it's the reason he's drawn to be so large, I think too, he was originally gonna be voiced by shock jock, real world shock jock, Tom Lycus. And like his name is next to the character on some table read scripts that are out there.

And this is for Mike Reese's book. A local radio personality played psychiatrist, Dr.. Marvin Monroe but he was fired at the end of the reading so that's how poorly they liked Tom Likus. They fired him after the table read. I assume he was doing a lot of ad-libs. Yeah I mean well if Tom Likus in real life is anything like his acerbic shock-jock character I think he's probably hard to deal with. Maybe he's right up there with Christopher Collins is hard to deal with. Who is more hard for them to deal with I wonder. And I remember the trivia about his name we never talked about Marvin Monroe let's talk about him here. I guess baked into

his name is that he was originally named Marilyn Monroe and that's why he became a therapist because it's something he was really hung up on. Right, right. That's also like those classic season one grainy kind of names that like a name that tells a story like J. Lauren Pryor, he prides into your life. Mr. Dandy, we're all thinking what happened to him? Howard from Howard's Flowers, anyone? I do like the amount of thought that they put into it.

Like otherwise they're just like naming Herman Herman, you know, and Carl Carlson. So I at least appreciate the effort. That's true. It's a different era. And that was them really giving up, because they had already, I think it goes in the order of it's one is before the other. It's not the same together.

I think it is Lenny Leonard first and then Carl Carlson, like a year or two apart, I believe. I said, listeners, go back to the Carjacker one. That's where I knew the information of which one was first because I think that's the Carl Carlson one and Lenny Leonard was before that So moving forward though. Yes, Marvin Monroe back from the dead temporarily Everybody else in town realizes though Marvin Monroe despite being a psychiatrist He doesn't realize that Marge or maybe his thing. He says her is him implying, I see this as about your marriage.

Oh yeah, that's a really good continuity guys. He was literally in the first episode of The Simpsons getting a phone call about their marriage and now he's reading the book after surviving his illness, let's say, or his fake death from insurance fraud. And like he's seeing the patterns again in a weird way all fitting together guys. You wanted to check in on this family he met 15 years ago or a year ago in the Simpsons timeline, who knows?

I mean Bart's still 10 so. But we then see everybody in town is gossiping. I like that Smithers is also in the bubble bath gossiping with the ladies. It's something I like in the more recent seasons where now that Smithers is also in the bubble bath gossiping with the ladies. It's something I like in the more recent seasons where now that Smithers is just fully out, that he gets to gab around with the gals. The whole wine episode with Marge.

I like when they do that more with Smithers. I like Disco Stu with his curlers when they started zooming out on the phone calls too. There's a lot of characters in this scene that are just filling up all these little blocks on the screen and they're not cheating. It's not drawing anything ambitious, but they're drawing a lot.

Made me think of like those old days when they used to just grab random clips from like season three of people on the phone and stuff. But yeah, they literally went through the effort of drawing all those people. Oh, you're right. This is not the same clip package of dudes who were going, Michael Jackson, Michael Jackson.

And they just pull out every time they picked up a phone. I love that clip because there's like that guy just talking on the phone that they walk by in the background. Like he's at the mall I think that they decide to pick. It's really weird. I won't recount everybody in the shop, but I liked seeing Scott Christian was in there and so was Nelson's dad season four style Nelson's dad. Though you actually Jims you had a good, I didn't realize how much they just bounce back

and forth with what Nelson's dad looks like in the series until your history, Adam. Yeah, I think after I made that video, people like pointed out that there's two distinct dads. There's sports dad and then there's the other like deadbeat dad. And I was like, okay. So I learned something new too. Now, before we move on, I'm looking at the Frankie X still from this scene. At one point in the scene there are 64 distinct characters, each with their own backdrop, talking on the phone. That's awesome, man, and in pre-HD too, that's really impressive. This is a Mark Kirkland episode, right? Yeah, Kirkland is a good, I mean, he is the veteran of veterans at Simpsons. So, technically he came out in season two, so he's not a veteran like the season one guys, but as we said before, he still has the record of most directed episodes I believe and so then I have a little clip here because I always love suicidal Mo can you believe that Homer and Marge's marriage is just a sham?

all right I'll order I'll have a medium pepperoni and could you space out the meats that it spells happy birthday, Moe. Ha ha ha. I got him alone. I guess they said yes. I want to know if Moe is getting his birthday pepperonis. I hope they did. I hope they at least took pity on him. Now he could just write that into the request when he makes the order on DoorDash or Uber Eats

or whatever. We'll see if he gets it. But we're just two episodes removed from his most recent Christmas suicide attempt. So like this is pretty much way to get March pregnant this scene, right? But it is funny. I'm not saying it's not funny, but it's the same joke. Oh yeah. Like I was expecting Homer to say, this is getting very abstract, but I do enjoy my ambulance job. Except this time Homer is smart enough to

actually get it. He's like, I got that one. He's not Merkin level stupid at this point. And he's only talking to one guy, and that's Apu. Was Apu in that original runner in Maggie Make 3? Did he stop by the Quickie Mart? I think he did, right? Yeah, I think so. Yeah, I think he's the one who says the little bundle of joy, and Homer says the bundle might be little, but it's still worth it. I think that is Apu who says it, yeah. Al Jean, your episodes are ripping off David Merkin. You should go write a check right now. Yes, it is Apu and Homer says the bundle

is little but I'm not in it for the money. Okay, great. This time we learned that Apu learned English from watching pornography, which has a new angle on Apu. You haven't heard that before. And he also uses the term cuckold before it became his mainstream. So Homer leaves. This is when he's finally going to check out the book, but only as an audiobook. This is where we get our other big guest stars of the episode. I left to read March's book, and I swore never to read again after to kill a mockingbird gave me no useful advice on killing mockingbirds. It did teach me not to judge a man based on the color of his skin, but what good does that do me? The Harpooned Heart.

Hmm, book on tape. It's read by Mary Kate and Ashley Olsen. The Harpooned Heart by Marge Simpson. Your turn, Mary Kate. There once was a girl from Nantucket. Her name was Temperance Sparrows, and her heart was heavy with feeling. Take it, Ashley. Temperance was trapped in a loveless marriage bummer I didn't know people

were sad in the past yes it is the Olsen twins guesting on the Simpsons they were but children when the Simpsons debuted like babies and now they are old enough to guest star on the show yeah this is around the time that their empire was crumbling. They made a ton of money in the 90s, by the way, with that whole video series and Full House, of course. But, yeah, this is one of their last appearances as a duo, and I guess they would host Saturday Night Live in 2004, and that was kind of it.

I was wondering how they got them, to be honest, because you said their empire was crumbling in terms of appearances, but didn't they just become really rich from like, was it fashion or makeup? Like they were building their empire. I was being a little facetious there. Their empire still exists. It's a vast empire, but they're out of the public eye. They're not acting anymore.

And I'm going to say it's for the best. They were not hired as babies to act. And they didn't really pick up that skill is what I'll say, but much better as fashion designers. And now we're all talking about Elizabeth Olsen. She's out of Marvel jail looking forward to what she'll do next. When I heard that appearance,

I actually forgot that the Simpsons actually got them, that that actually was them doing their voices, because it's such a nothing role, you know? And it's kind of making fun of them for being vapid, you know, with the back and forth. So I'm kind of surprised that they asked them, and that they actually got them this late into like them falling out of TV. Yeah, they retired from acting in 2012, but that is because their fashion empire was really

taking off. I think I had heard one of the reasons they're not on Fuller House is because they're just so successful at their fashion company that it's like it is not worth their time to even like film like a one episode cameo on Fuller House House. They are too rich and they're married to other rich people. I think one of them is married to a French investment banker who's very rich as well. Well, you mentioned 2004 in that SNL thing, is also worth mentioning. 2004 is the year that they both turned 18,

which that was a lot of jokes back then as well. Oh yeah, if you're on a message board in 2004, somebody has the Mary, Kate and Ashley Countdown banner in their signature. Yes, not to get too puerile, but that was especially in 2004. I looked up like, I wanted to know how old were they when this aired? And it was like they were almost 18 and that instantly brought back all of the filthy jokes of the era. And as soon as that odometer rolled over, everyone was onto Lindsay Lohan next.

Because I never remembered that at all. And that's shocking, because they weren't even in the public spotlight in terms of being in movies all the time. And yet people were still waiting around for them, like creeps. I'm not surprised. I'm really grossed out, but I guess I'm not that surprised.

It's just weird that it was such a thing with them still. Believe it or not, people were more openly perverted on the internet 20 years ago seemingly. Seemingly. Though here's a time for me to play my new favorite jingle the scary math jingle let me say I play it first and I'll tell you what the scary math is. Lisa are you doing math? The scary math is that those jokes about them turning 18 this year turned 21. Wow. You can have sex with those jokes and drink with them. Yes. The jokes about it are now old enough to rent a car.

Wow. Nice. But not run for president. It's almost there. Don't vote for those jokes, people, when you're the ballot in four years. So are you guys gonna vote for Mary Kate or Ashley Olsen in the presidential election in the future? I hope I can vote for both of them as like a double ticket.

The better actor needs to be the president and the worst actor of the two needs to be vice president. Bob, you did a whole great podcast about Full House, but I watched a, they go to Disney World Full House kind of recently, and you can definitely tell one twin is, they're not good actors either. It's if I can talk about seven year olds being bad actors,

but one's better than the other back then. Yeah, they never got, you know, they never acted well, they never became great actors, but again, they were hired when they were pre-verbal. They didn't know they were investing in these children becoming actors and having to speak more than you got a dude, hired when they were pre-verbal. They didn't know they were investing in these children becoming actors and having to speak more than you got a dude or whatever the catchphrases were. I know the catchphrases. And yeah, on our Patreon we have an entire episode about the One Where They Go to Japan.

It was fun. I did it with my wife, Nina Matsumoto. And lastly, this is the other bit of I was like, wait, who did this first? Family Guy has a bit where Betty White reads a book because there's a similar episode called Peterotica where Peter writes a sexy book and Betty White does the audio version of the book. But that is a 2006 episode. So I can say Family Guy ripped off Simpsons in this case. Not really, I'm not saying that, but that's the timeline.

Actionable. All right, Homer now knows the truth. Meanwhile, Marge is writing her sequel book and she's doing what all sequels do. Let's go to Australia, that'll be the sequel. Though how does she even, we later learn the ending of the book, it's just Temperance's adventures now, everybody else is dead at the end of her book. She's gonna go to Australia and stare at shrimp as it cooks, apparently.

And so Homer confronts her, this is where she learns he lied, and he says, I was writing fiction with my mouth, another good Homerism. You know, we're talking about the dirty jokes in this episode, we forgot to mention that Marge's book starts off with there once was a girl from Nantucket. That's right. And then her name was Temperance. You're right. I missed that both times even having the Olsen twins say it. I totally missed it. Marge writes a dirty limerick starting point without realizing it. It's so suggestive. And so Homer tells Marge he knows the truth. Marge then knows the truth and is very angry at him and he just runs off and you made this great point in your video talking about it James but the bit here

is this is a screw the audience joke that you think Homer is gonna do one thing but he's not doing it but I think it ends up in such a heartfelt place that it never even registers me as a screw the audience joke like so many other Simpsons bits like this. Yeah they're definitely setting you up with every like we talked about the jerk-ass Homer part earlier and then the episode also sets up Homer as being kind of monstrous but like looking at him in this episode like I don't know, did you guys ever believe that Homer was really gonna try to kill Ned

or really confront him? Because there isn't really anything in the text of this episode that suggests that he would. But given how he's been in the past five seasons, like, I don't know, maybe. I think my reading was he was really after something and the events of the book want to make you believe

that Homer will kill Ned, but the screw you audience joke is really softened for me when the punchline is something very sweet and wholesome. Usually the screw you audience joke is something like very lame or something surprising here just like oh it's a sweet resolution so it doesn't read as much as that kind of a joke to me. Yeah the closest to me is how Homer says well you'll never imagine that again which is a crazy way to say, I'm going to learn how to be nice so you won't imagine that I mean anymore.

Like, that's not why you would say that. You would say that because you're going to kill the man she's imagining about. And there's like a screw the audience joke within the screw the audience setup with like the three hands reaching for Ned as well. Yeah. So there's like many layers of faking out the audience going on.

I kind of wish that wasn't explained, but we see that it's Nelson's hand because he's stealing doormats from inside of people's houses. Yeah, why is it on the inside? Isn't Ned's house carpeted? Yeah, wait a minute. Now I see a problem with this joke. This is the one continuity issue with this episode.

Also for the joke to work, in the first shot, Nelson's arm has to be off model and be Homer's arm size, This is the one continuity issue with this episode. Also for the joke to work, in the first shot, Nelson's arm has to be off model and be Homer's arm size, which Nelson is a bigger kid, but his arm is not drawn the same size as Homer's arm. It is a great gag. And then Homer chases after Ned, and hey, compliments to the artist again.

Ned's still driving that Gio. They have a list. They're like, this is Ned's car, and we're going to keep drawing it as a little Gio... That's why he can't outrun Homer even in that crappy ambulance. I do love that joke though about how he gets Ned to pull over because he's in an ambulance. He has to admit it. This is where Bart is caught in his own lie about saying that he read the book too. This is when the audience gets to see what Marge wrote as the ending of the story, as the two men confront each other. I'm free to be selfish, drunk, emotionally distant, sexually ungenerous, pissy, and-

Ah! Ah! As temperance watched the two men she had loved and the one whale she admired disappear into the ocean, she realized it was the end. I love Al Jean's comment in the commentary, how he thought that the rope going around Homer's leg was a bit of a cheat.

Oh yes, yeah. Though that's great bad writing on Marge's part that she's like, that's how she realized it was, the end. The end. And we have Homer openly farting on screen, also a first for the show. Homer saying the word pissy, which I like. I like that through Homer's character,

Marge is listing all the things she hates the most about Homer, and it's like selfish, drunk, emotionally distant, sexually ungenerous as well. I believe that. Although I do love the line, oh no, not the new guy. Yeah, Marge tightly wrote her story. She's like, well, isn't this what early short story writers do?

They're like, well, I got to kill everybody at the end. Isn't that how you end stories? I got to kill everybody. Also like the very obvious symbolism of the harpoon heart in which her heart has been harpooned metaphorically and then literally at the end of the book, Ned's or Cyrus's heart is harpooned with a real harpoon. Right. Yeah, like even though Marge's novel is kind of crappy, she did kind of try to like tie it all together. So we should at least give her credit for that

I mean for a first novel that probably had no rewrite seemingly based on the notes that Delacroix gave her and based on the reviews later The two lovers die we cut to the real world where Ned is chased and gets out of his car because it's an ambulance I love that in Springfield. He accidentally just comes upon the exact same looking impossible cliff. Yeah, there's like a New England style beach side in Springfield as well. Like Ned hasn't read the book, right? Like Ned doesn't know about this.

I think Ned was reading the book when Homer tried to barge into his house. Oh right. Oh did he? Yeah. Oh, so he doesn't know how it ends up. I don't think so. I like too that Ned is so peaceful He will accept Homer murdering him

He's not gonna try to stop it and that would be like he has to turn the other cheek to the point that he will Pray to God that being beaten to death ends quickly. Sorry to go back to the last thing Do you think Ned would actually realize that the book was about him or do you think he's naive enough to not notice? I think he would slam the book shut the second any sort of penetration happened. Yeah. Yes, maybe even hearing the guy say, like, an unwed man hitting on a, and his character Cyrus justifying, you know, cheating,

that would already get him to slam it shut, wouldn't he? Or Morkai makes out with his boat mermaid. That's worshipping a graven image, I'd say. So he closes it then. Yeah, well, Ned doesn't believe in cavemen. I think he was just buying this book to support Marge because he's a nice guy and maybe reading it to humor her so they have something to talk about. But I don't know I think he's just kind of skimming. Maybe he like just gets to the sex as fast as possible to get to more wholesome wailing. I'm picturing him reading while covering it up with his hands like so he doesn't see certain passages.

Well, you see what his heart belongs to, and that is the original Sun Maid Raisins Girl. Lorraine Collette is the name of the model for it back in 1915. So Sun Maid Raisins, even older than Milky Way's. But is there like a dark chocolate version? I mean, I do think Sun Maid sells their own versions of Raisinettes, but is it dark chocolate? I'm not sure. I like their style of Raisinettes better than real Raisinettes. I think SunMade actually, if I'm reviewing candy here,

I think it has a better chocolate to raisin variable, I'd say. I didn't know there were so many varieties of chocolate-covered raisins out there. I thought it was just Raisinettes. I thought they had the market covered. You know what? I haven't checked it in in a while because if I'm getting a movie theater snack, Bunch of Crunch long ago replaced Raisinettes as my preferred style. So Ned is cornered and Homer is lunging at him in our next clip. Dear Lord, please make Homer's blows precise and deadly with the minimum of pain. Oh and forgive me for those impure thoughts I had about the girl in the raisin box. Flanders, I'm going to do something I should have done a long time ago.

Would you help me be a better husband? Huh? In Marge's book, I was so mean and you were so nice. How can I be more like you? Just give me some advice. Advice? Just call me Anne Flanders. Uh huh.

That's great. He takes that as the first piece of advice. Now, Real Jims, you're totally right. This is Mr. Plow meets Streetcar Named Marge. Because this is the exact same revelation that he has after seeing Stanley, the character of Stanley, in the play and he's talking with Marge about it, like, oh Stanley was so mean. It feels like he's hitting the same discovery here.

Yeah, it's a very similar plot beat, although which version do you prefer? Do you prefer an exciting chase sequence near the rocks, or do you prefer Marge flying around in her insanity? I prefer all of the great Jeff Martin hits that you get to hear in that sequence. And say one of these two versions like defames the whole city of New Orleans, so we should consider that too.

They've had it coming. Pre-Katrina, let's say they had it coming. I like this bit with Homer. Here's the comparison I'll make with Streetcar. A thing I like about this over Streetcar is that in Streetcar, Homer can't fully connect the dots. Like he will say, oh, Stanley was a jerk and should have just been nice to her. He can't fully say, I'm like Stanley and this is what it's like.

He just says, that's all Marge needs and can accept that. This time Homer can tell the husband in This Is Me and I am mean. In Marge's book I was so mean and you were so nice like that one really gets me that Homer actually maybe this is writing him out of character for being this emotionally mature but I think it's touching that Homer goes she wrote me so mean this is how she sees me oh I could be a lot better. I think it is good character development for Homer. The Simpsons doesn't have quote unquote character

development, which is something my YouTube commenters tell me all the time. So they don't really have development. But you are seeing an evolution where he is a little more self-aware in this episode, a little more sensitive to it. Now it could be just a reactionary thing from the Scully days of, well I mean,

this is a season where he literally sets Marge up for the DUI, but like, it could be a little reactionary, but I do like the small shift because, like I don't know, the street car episode is good where it's all kind of like subconscious, where they don't really know what's going on, but I do appreciate the level of self-awareness from both Homer and Marge

in this one that separates it from that episode. Yeah, I'm gonna say this might come from having a woman on the writing staff, just better husband and wife politics as much as I love Streetcar and it's so great. The ending, it's just Homer being rewarded for seeing a symbolism between Stanley and himself. He says, I'm a little bit like that guy. And Homer's like, maybe a little, and the episode is over.

But here it's like... That's a good point because Homer is way more active here. Like, Homer's actively trying. Like, he chases down Ned. You know, like, that's not great, I guess. But he is actively trying to improve himself here. And I love the drawing of Homer on his knees, like, begging for help.

It's very, you know, humble. Like he has been fully humbled by this to see how mean he was written and he doesn't want to be that anymore. Now he forgets this in this episode. It's not that he forgets it by the next episode. He forgets it by the time the credits roll. Yeah. Which, that's very quick.

And to be fair to Homer as well, like Homer did kind of go through a traumatic situation where like everyone found out his business. Like he brought it on himself because he didn't like read the novel beforehand. She gave him his out. But it is like kind of a screwed up situation he's in. And he is very like humble about it in the end, which is nice. And we forgetting that Homer watched many people die. Yes. Over the course of events. I mean forgetting that Homer watched many people die Yes, over the course of a lot of dead. I mean he's seeing that nuclear inspector's face every time he closes his eyes Maybe that whole ambulance plot was needed after all

So after Anne Flanders gives Homer some tips Marge arrives and is scared that she's about to witness a murder. And she starts by referencing MC Hammer's big hit album in our final clip here. Please, homie, don't hurt him! And a back rub can just be a back rub. It doesn't have to lead to adult situations. Why would I rub her back unless I wanted to get some...oh, to make her feel good? Oh, homie, you're trying to improve yourself, and it's because of my book. That's right. I love you, Marge.

And I realize now I should show you more often. The end of your book was the wake-up call I needed after falling asleep at the beginning of your book. That's the best review I've gotten. Seriously, these reviews are terrible. Don't worry about those losers, Marge. I think it's time we went home and collaborated on a little project of our own.

Hehehehehe. Marge, I got it all figured out. Lee Harvey Oswald wanted to steal the Jack Ruby. Jack Ruby was a man, not a jewel. Whoa! All right, we're back to square one. Put on some coffee. Oh.

I was so close. They're working on the book Who Really Killed JFK, which is why we get the JFKs thing at the end. Very nice. What is this? Yeah, I would have really, for all the compliments we sting at the end. Very nice. What is this thing? I would have really, for all the compliments we had for the relationship of this one,

I mean, it's funny enough, but it's such a like, this is the real screw you of like, they imply that Marge and Homer are gonna like make up snuggling in bed, which we've seen that ending many times, so would have just been predictable. But the thing they pull out of their butts is like, well, instead of that, what are they doing?

This though makes me think their relationship is still bad and Homer learned nothing right here. He's like, this had to be Homer's idea to write a JFK assassination book, right? Yeah, in Streetcar, Homer is less self-aware, but here they undercut what could have been a sweet ending. Just by them working on a JFK book out of the millions that are out there,

which I've heard that both of the last presidents were gonna open up the files finally on JFK, still hasn't happened yet, but maybe this tells me that today, Homer would be really following Q very closely. By the time this episode goes live, we'll know who killed JFK. Oh, that's right, hopefully.

Are we gonna find out who stole the Jack Ruby? That may never be answered. I do really like the detail though earlier that Marge's book got terrible, terrible reviews. They didn't have to do that joke, but I do like it that they give us the fun of Marge's shitty writing, and then it does actually make sense in the end that they can make that joke that, yeah, this was not received well, of course. I take that joke as also their little way

of wrapping up the like, this is why Marge doesn't continue being a writer in the show. The reviews were very bad and she didn't get another book. No one appreciated the Simpsons jokes in this romance novel. Ha ha ha. Although, since when did writing a bad romance novel

stop you from having a second romance novel? Come on. I think those critics were just out to get her. I don't know, maybe they talked to Helen Lovejoy and were ready to have their knives out for her. Didn't they see all those great endorsements of it? Tom Clancy, his name was ruined. He decided to die 10 years later

just to get away from that whole scandal. A very silly ending that they're writing a JFK book together, Marge leaving the room grumbling. I feel like if the lesson is Homer is too mean and he needs to be a better husband, then your last moment shouldn't be Marge being depressed and grumbling and leaving the bedroom. That shouldn't be your final second of the episode.

Yeah, they undercut things a little too much, I think. Yeah, they've done that joke so many times, the Homer and Marge might be having sex, that if they did eventually cut to them just laying in bed afterward, I would be kind of surprised, just because I expect something else at this point. You expect Homer to be playing Devil's Advocate or something else.

Yeah, very weird ending. But I did like this episode. The Homer's two jobs was perfectly cromulent. Homer gets a new job. They basically barely want him to be an ambulance driver. They wanted to be a delivery man and a taxi driver. In this time when Marge doesn't get a ton to do sometimes in episodes, like all these lines that Kavener gets to do and the delivery she gets to do while writing her book. I do enjoy it. It's a good episode.

Yeah, I love March in this episode that she's very sweet. Like you said Jim's I love the enthusiasm she puts into writing her book. She's so excited to create and I like the little historical pastiche they put together which is just a preview of Marginal History Tour, which will be the next episode they do in season 15. But yeah, I mean, even if I don't love the ambulance stuff, I think the line, if I write a book, will they tell me when it comes out saves the entire episode. It's one of my favorites from this era. Yeah, it is nice little like I think in terms of like the Homer Marge dynamic, I think that's really well conveyed in terms of like their relationship and what is going on psychologically.

It does, you know, tread some of the streetcar named Marge stuff that we talked earlier, but like that episode is good because of their relationship and then this episode is good in a similar way. And I think having the writing process and Marge's passion and enthusiasm, like I would watch a whole episode of just Marge sitting behind a computer just plunking away at it. So yeah, like I think it's a very solid episode. My biggest criticism, which I alluded to before we talked about this podcast, was the act one, I think could use some work in terms of getting there. Like it is a little haphazard to put it charitably, I think.

Like there is something to the old scully days of not really caring how we get to the actual plot or just barely caring at all. Whereas this one almost tries to justify itself too much in trying to get there or being too much of a shaggy dog story. So if they would have cleaned up that a little I'd be more on like maybe it'll be like a top three episode of the season but as is like very good episode I think. Well thank you again to the Real Jims for being on Talking Simpsons. Please let us know where to find you online. Obviously we want to know all about your YouTube channel so much great stuff is happening there. Episode reviews and retrospectives and character histories and

Simpsons mysteries. Yeah you can find me on YouTube just search for the Real Jims. I'm sorry the channel name is so terrible, but this is what we're stuck with at this point. But yeah, I do episode reviews. Just finished up season 19 somewhat recently. By the time this video comes out, you should be seeing a Simpsons history is about the sea captain, who's always a fan favorite.

We'll speculate about his various body parts is the way we'll say that video is how we'll tease that one. But yeah, and then I'll have some more episode reviews, maybe a Simpsons did it, or some worst episode ever reviews, perhaps. I was gonna say Sea Captain wasn't in this episode, but technically he is in the establishing shot of Nantucket in Marge's vision.

You see, well you see, I guess, her vision of Sea Captain and Nantucket is on a boat at it. So he honestly should be there, it'd be an omission if he wasn't there. She left him out. Yeah, they need to use the sea captain more. I look forward to that one, and yes we both really enjoy your videos.

Many times when we're about to cover a character and I'm like boy, what happened to this character? What's their history? I need to refresh her. Your videos are always so helpful. Well I'm glad to hear that they've come in handy because those, especially those retrospectives, they take a long time to research and take in the notes and everything. So if you're getting something out of them from like a, I don't

want to say academic standpoint because that sounds way too important and serious, but if it's making things easier to reference, like I'm glad something's coming out. Oh yeah, we often use and reference your videos in our work. Well that's good to hear. So look forward to learning some things about Sea Captain I maybe have forgotten or didn't know either, so looking forward to that one. His fluid sexuality, I wanna know all about it. Turns out he has two distinct sexualities, not to tease him.

Ooh boy, I'm looking forward to it. Thank you so much, Jims. Thank you, Jims. No problem, thanks for having me. Thanks again to The Real Jims for being on the show once again. Please check out his YouTube channel. It is great.

But as for us, if you want to check out more of what we do and get all of these episodes ad free and one week ahead of time, head on over to patreon.com slash talking Simpsons and sign up there for just five bucks a month. Again, ad free podcasts. You won't have to hear an ad for the rest of your life as long as you're on Patreon. And we also have access to a ton of miniseries episodes on that level. Over 200 to date covering things like Futurama, Batman the animated series, King of the Hill, The Critic, and Mission Hill. And that five bucks a month also

gets you new monthly episodes of both Talking Futurama and Talking of the Hill. And again it's all happening at the $5 level only at patreon.com talking Simpsons. There is a $5 level only at patreon.com slash talking Simpsons. There is a $10 level as well. When you sign up for that, you can access all the $5 stuff naturally, but then you can also access one very long podcast once a month only for patrons of that level or higher. And what is that Henry? Bob's talking about our what a cartoon movie podcast where we cover an animated feature film as in depth as we cover an episode of the Simpsons. That means that last month we went super in depth into DreamWorks' How to Train Your Dragon, the

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