Talking Simpsons - Talking Simpsons - Itchy & Scratchy & Marge

Episode Date: December 9, 2015

Marge shows the world just one screwball can do by going on a moral crusade against violent cartoons, as the guys get introspective about animation history…

Ahoy, ahoy, everybody, and welcome to Talking Simpsons, where we make really good lemonade. This is the Lazer Time Podcast Network's chronological exploration of the Simpsons. I am your host, Bob Mackie, of course. Who else is here today? Christopher Antista, the number one Simpsons fan, better than anyone in this room. Henry Gilbert, the real Ghostbusters fan in this room. Sorry. Brett Elston, the actual real best fan. And today's episode is Itchy and Scratchy in Marge.

And if you couldn't tell by the title, this is the episode in which Marge tries to get violence removed from the beloved cartoon Itchy and Scratchy. And this episode aired December 20th, 1990, the last episode of 1990 for The Simpsons. And what happened on this day in history, Chris? Five days before Christmas. Oh boy, Bobby! This day in Simpsons history, the TMNT movie is released on VHS

by Family Home Entertainment. HBO's Comedy Channel and Viacom's Ha! merge together to form Comedy Central, and Home Alone continues its dominance at the top of the box office. I see. Now on that TMNT VHS, was there a heartwarming Pizza Hut commercial? Yes, there was.

It featured a baseball team. Way out where the dandelions grew. That is some timing that they're like, yeah, five days before Christmas, let's just sell it to people. Not a month ahead of Christmas and sell millions of copies. It's perfect.

Just five days. Those FHE people. The world was slower. It's perfect. Just five days. Those FHE people. The world was slower. It's not only slower. The Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle movie, the first movie, is in the record books as the highest grossing

independent movie of all. Because nobody wanted anything to do with it. It's crazy. It's New Line, right? It's New Line before they were New Line. New Line put it out,

but they didn't produce it. Nobody wanted to. They had no VHS distribution, so Family Home Entertainment had to step in with their shitty crayon logo yes yes that usually released stupid learn to read videos well they did the cartoons for

the Ninja Turtles the VHS tapes but it's just insane you as a little kid and an adult really no one wants this I'll go get a bank loan and I can make this happen we're talking about how slow the world moved. The Ninja Turtles movie opened 18 months before the VHS tape was released to the public. I always remember Jurassic Park came out in June of 1993 and the VHS was October 1994.

Oh, yeah. A year and a half. Guys, read the oral history of the Ninja Turtles movie. Hollywood Reporter did this year. It's amazing. So if we're done with this week in Simpsons history, just a few notes about this show. It's based on a housewife's letter-writing campaign

about married with children. She took issue with an episode in which Kelly and Peg go bra shopping, and I believe the offensive phrase was over-the-shoulder boulder holder, which was tossed around a lot in my second grade class. Yeah, no pig.

They did so many more disgusting things on that show. That was the one that got her. But the thing is, this made the show hugely popular. This letter writing campaign made Fox a name. People were hearing about Fox now, hearing about Married with Children for the first time. So controversy made it popular. Something ribald, no doubt.

This episode was also the highest rated episode of FXX's Every Simpsons Ever marathon. I see. Is that because it happened super early in the run of the marathon? I don't really know. I think it's... I do think... If I had to guess, I think people maybe skipped, I don't like the first season and maybe timed their day to jump on at this point.

But what I thought was more miraculous about it is that syndication is so weird with how they air episodes. This was the first time in history since the show aired, that it aired first run on Fox television, maybe a rerun a couple months later, that the world was experiencing the same Simpsons episodes at the same time.

Because normally you go home in syndication and not playing the same episodes that are broadcasting in Branson or Tallahassee, Florida. Thanks for the Branson. You're welcome. I appreciate it. Well, that two-week period of every Simpsons ever was just amazing.

It was like... So your Twitter was alight with Simpsons jokes that you can't make because you know no one's watching the same episode you are. Yeah. It was a beautiful moment. We're all on the same page again. And this episode also is the debut of Jim Reardon, my favorite director on The Simpsons.

He's great. He directed episodes such as Homer Goes to College, my favorite episode in terms of animation, and Mr. Plow. And he also made the short Bring Me the Head of Charlie Brown. Yes. You must see this short. It's on YouTube. It's totally... We just put up an article with a thing in it.

Oh, cool. Okay, awesome. What is it? Weird Snoopy merchandise? Yeah, it's weird Snoopy merch. It's a bonus entry because it is unofficial, but it's like, it was a YouTube video 30 years before YouTube existed. Exactly, yeah.

It was just this animator who had the crazy idea of what if Charlie Brown murdered everybody? What if the Charlie Brown characters just killed each other in black and white? And it is so, it looks so perfect. It's hilarious, and it's on YouTube. And Jim Reardon is narrating. And I think doing voices too. You can hear it. It's, it's fantastic.

You can see why they hired him. It's so subversive and great. So yes, this episode is Itchy and Scratchy and Marjorie. How does it open? I totally don't remember. Uh, I have a clip that I don't remember either.

Okay. A pinch of marjorie. You know, Marge, you make the best pork chops in the whole world. Oh, now Homer, they're nothing special.

The extra ingredient is care. A sprinkle of chervil, half a teaspoon of turmeric, and a whisper of MSG. Oregano. See, I do remember this line because it's the first time I ever heard this line, and I use it all the time, and I can't believe Bart said it. Hey, down in front. Shut up, boy. Down in front? I've never heard down in front before, and it took me years to see it. Hey, down in front. Got it, boy.

I've never heard down in front before. It took me years to see it again in a 1940s movie. It feels very old-timey to me. Why did Bart say that? Homer gets his head caved in. Homer, number one, after I watched this episode, I think I definitely asked my mom to make pork chops for the first time ever. I was like, yeah, pork chops, whatever those are. Again, I'm turning Homer's age and I like

pork now. I've never liked pork in my whole life. It's a turning point. I was like, yeah, pork chops, whatever those are. But again, I'm turning Homer's age and I like pork now. I've never liked pork in my whole life. It's a turning point. Become a middle age, of course. And then it turns on this running joke they pretty much dropped

that Homer's bad at building stuff. I guess it pops up every now and then, but it's more just included like Homer's bad at everything. He's got to build something.

He'll be bad at that too. But that spice rack had become kind of a shorthand for like when you can't do something well or like I'm going to try and I'm hoping I'll spice rack had become kind of a shorthand for like when you can't do something well or like I'm going to try and like open a spice rack this thing. And I also like that he had – this is a joke that is so outdated now, but a wall of encyclopedias, like such specific encyclopedias. Like the Time Life collection of like handicrafts or whatever.

The handicraft, the handyman's guide. I do think a spice rack is like the first thing you make in like woodworking class or that or like a birdhouse. Even if the spice falls out of the rack it's not that big a deal. And so while Homer was building this

Bartley said Maggie you're watching an Itchy and Scratchy cartoon and of course Maggie is influenced directly to hit Homer on the head with a mallet while he's working.

For a great psycho reference. Yes exactly. One of the first like shot for shot like specific not like oh this is just an illusion, Citizen Kane. It's like, no, no, this is a shot we're going to recreate with the show. I think it's their first Hitchcock.

How do you feel about that now as renowned Family Guy haters? It's a specific reference that licensed the music. They were first at the table as in thing one meets thing two equals comedies. But I think they evolved beyond that and started having to add more to the equation than just, like, these two things don't belong together. They're still eight years ahead of Family Guy, by the way, on that. But also, I made the note that. Well, that doesn't make that their jokes are entirely based in cutaways. Right.

But I also. They do do a fair amount of cutaways. That's for a different. Talking Griffins. That's coming soon. I'll put the show over there. Okay. Physically speaking.

Maggie. Let's say Maggie,... Talking Griffins. That's coming soon. I'm going to finish over there. Okay, physically speaking, Maggie, let's say Maggie, a baby, is strong enough to pick up a mallet. Could she possibly hit Homer with enough force to knock it? Your issue is with the heaviness of the hammer, right? Gravity is going to do part of that work. I guess. I'm putting on my best hypothetical sports commentator.

And I think also Homer is incredibly... like, he's just a terrible human. Like, everything is, like, he's weak. He can't build anything. He's stupid. Like, of course a baby would knock him out, you know? That's part of the joke, I think. I don't know what this line is. Provision's responsible.

Hey, we were watching that. Well, you won't be watching these cartoons anymore, ever. But, Mom, if you take our cartoons away, we'll grow up without a sense of humor and be robots. Really? What kind of robots? This is my line of the show, because Homer's hit over the head and has to call in sick for work.

That's the joke. You heard me. I won't be in for the rest of the week. I told you. My baby beat me up. Oh, it is not the worst excuse you've ever heard. I think I might be my line in the show. Actually, no, we'll get to that later. So Marge writes a letter to the filth purveyors of Itchy and Scratchy,

and we have our first RIP for this episode, Alex Rocco, sadly. Yeah, Alex Rocco sadly yeah Alex Rocco was he Moe Green in The Godfather yes oh he's dead we have a death jingle that we never use

death stalks you at every turn ah there it is death that's Alex Rocco Moe Green in The Godfather

I think he died this year he has such a great voice I love his voice so much and like I think Hank Azaria filled in for him twice. Did he?

Once was in the front and the other one was in Itchy and Scratchy and was like, here are two tickets. That was Hank Azaria. Here are two tickets but there are five of us.

Here are two tickets. That's better. When it's one line they wouldn't get Rocco in. With Joe Mantegna they would. Anytime Fat Tony showed up Joe Mantegna said,

if he belches, I'm that voice. Here he is writing his letter. Try to tone down the psychotic violence in your otherwise fine programming. Yours truly, Marge Simpson. Take a letter, Miss White. Dear valued viewer, thank you for taking an interest in the Itchy and Scratchy program.

Enclosed is a personally autographed photo of America's favorite cat and mouse team to add to your collection. In regards to your specific comments about the show, our research indicates that one person cannot make a difference, no matter how big a screwball she is. So let me close by saying...

And the horse I rode in on! I'll show them what one screwball can do! All right, so now as an adult, I'm thinking, did he actually tell her, go fuck yourself in the horse you rode in? Exactly, yeah, I did not get that as a kid. Oh, yeah, not at all. Here's the thing, though. I think in the second season of any animated show,

they do their show about animation. And I feel like South Park did this with the show episode Death, where they've introduced Terrence and Philip. Like, you think our show is bad? Here's the bad show that you would hate if it was real. Tiny Toons did it. It happens a lot.

You're in this environment. You have to write about the process. That's what they're doing here. You're writing about your life and your life has become cartoons. There's a great Sailor Moon episode that is they go to an animation studio. It is just about how great animators are and how good theators are and how good the artists, how hard the artists work.

There were also a couple notes I made before we got to that was like, one, when they forbid them to watch the cartoons, they just go to their friend's house, which is exactly what you do with anything your parents forbid you from doing. And then two, when everybody else was reading the letter, they stuck with the continuity of Krusty

being illiterate, which I appreciated. He couldn't read the letter. He was moving it up and down. And then the animator who crutches it up is Wes Archer. It's a parody. It's a drawing of Wes Archer that would then be turned into a black man who would be one of the nerds in Homer Goes to College. Actually, I'm going to double nerd you, Henry. Oh, shit.

It's actually Eddie Fitzgerald, who never worked on The Simpsons, but worked on things like Brendan Stimpy, Tiny Toons, Double nerd back! and with Ralph Bakshi. Oh, wow. That's Eddie Fitzgerald.

You win this round, Bob. Wes Archer's the dude with the beret. Right. He's the guy with the beret. Wes is... And also... Wes is the beret. Dan David Silverman has the curly hair

and the Homer beard line. That's right. And Eddie Fitzgerald, Pinky from Pinky and the Brain is also a caricature of him. Whoa! With the two buck teeth, so there you go. I know this and I have nowhere else to say it, so... You're welcome. I'm abusing you with my knowledge.

Yes, so... I do love the guy's voice, though. The detached delivery of this angry CEO, head you know head of the head of a studio it's just just like the personnel have you met any human being with a voice like that in your entire do they are they extinct i feel like it's a different lifestyle like you need to be drinking whiskey from age eight like cartons of cigarettes a morning whiskey yeah if you weren't already smoking them down and saying the 70s like we're all going to sound like Aziz Ansari in 10 years. All just high voice nerds.

I've started a crusade against cartoon violence. I can protect my own children, but there are many others whose minds are being warped every afternoon at 4. That reminds me. I've got to get over to Milhouse's and play sports. All right. And I'm going over to Janie's again. We're gonna be making the most of our childhood years. Have fun.

We will. You want to point out that Moe's sign in the protest says, Bring back wagon train. And Miss Skinner's sign says, Destroy the violent people. Talk about this in the commentary, but this episode was written by John Schwarzwelartz welder who loves itchy and scratchy and also is the the attribute the bring back wagon train sentiment to him he would say that yeah he would literally say that

yeah they should bring back wagon he is the old-timiest guy around what the fuck is wagon train it's kind of what inspired star trek in a way. Oh, like a western? Yeah. It's one of the many, like, They're like a convoy from town to town exploring the west.

So, like, this episode, I think, like, we're all podcasting about pop culture. I believe we probably all had permissive parents, right?

Yeah. Yes. Were you guys ever not allowed to watch something? Yes. Like, that happened with me, with kids I knew. Like, I can't watch

Ren and Snippy. You come here to my house. We'll watch Ren and Snippy. Yeah. That was, I think, my parents were still under the impression, like, if it was animated, it can't watch Ren and Snippet. You come here to my house. We'll watch Ren and Snippet. Yeah. That was, I think my parents were still under the impression, like, if it was animated, it was Yogi Bear,

so watch away. I think if I was watching Married with Children, they would have said no. Yeah. But The Simpsons was fine and enjoyed by the entire family. I think I got one, like,

one questionable comment from a parent during Married with Children. Like, should you be watching this? I'm like, I'm okay with this. I got it. Okay. I got it, man.

I think, yeah, we didn't own, we didn't have HBO in my house, so they didn't have to. I think because then they didn't have to worry like, hey, you're not watching anything that they are rated. Whatever you're watching is fine. I had to get permission via phone call from my parents before my friend's dad would let me watch

Nightmare on Elm Street Part 5, The Dream Child. Jesus. Could be scary. And because they were on the phone with another adult, they just said yes. That was completely forbidden in my house. It's like, yeah, you know what? Don't do what you were going to do because my kid's there. I'm an asshole. Yeah, for some reason, it never really came up.

Simpsons was fine, and then I'm like, I want to go see RoboCop 2. And they're like, let's go. And then I have to imagine my parents, after taking me to see Pred to go see RoboCop 2 and they're like let's go and then I have to imagine my parents after taking me to see Predator 2 and RoboCop 2 just have to walk out and still not be like you can't do that anymore. You're 10. RoboCop was the perfect example of a no-no in my

house. I think it was probably the enemy of NPR so my dad hated it. All my friends were talking about it and I'm like please can I and I had to have someone like Bob bring me over to their house and show me RoboCop. So the good old snuh is there, which is they're finally doing a takedown of the PC police, man. Yeah, man. I guess we do have to address that now that political correctness is back, everybody.

Well, it does factor into the end of this episode. It's something I don't like about it. I agree with you, Bob, that I prefer the term that uh miss hoover coins later in the series which is pc thug yeah oh yeah pc thug you're you're the reason women can't find a man it's more dead white male bashing from a pc thug yeah exactly i love that line pc thug is better than pc police yeah i should say that i think thug has more connotations now so it's a tricky situation yes now that's what i a tricky situation to work yourself into. Now that's what I call a sticky situation.

But this isn't about South Park. So at some point... We were talking about South Park? Henry was for one reference. Oh, so failed. I didn't even see it. Itchy and Scratchy eventually do take Marge's advice because Snod has an effect. I believe one of the acts ends with a bunch of mail trucks carrying mail from Outrage Parents to Itchy and Scratchy. So why don't? Why doesn't? Itchy gives Scratchy. So, like, why don't, why doesn't Itchy & Scratchy get an ice cream cone?

Like, no, make it a pie. Pies are easier to draw. There's a lot of, like, negotiating, like, how do we make a cartoon without violence? It's going to be so weird. There's so many great, well, before they change everything, like, there's so many great scenes in there that, like, first off, when the parents are at Krusty's show, I was, I wrote down, why did Krusty's producers allow the parents great scenes in there. First off, when the parents are at Krusty's show, I wrote down,

why did Krusty's producers allow the parents to come in there? Krusty's shouldn't be surprised. Like, hey, where'd the children go? What a bunch of surly adults walk in, yeah. I would like the letter writing scene and the pie is easier to draw scene. Having worked at Capcom for four years and then now watching this, as a company that like you're going to get a lot of praise

and you're going to get a lot of negativity. It's just the way companies that are in the spotlight work. Like some people are going to be happy all the time. Some people are going to be angry all the time. So watching that from that letter writing campaign, I enjoyed that from a different perspective, but also the pies are easier to draw thing

is such a, a lot of things that we think are magical or really on purpose. It's because... Pie based solutions. It is a pie. Yeah, it is a... Pie based compromises. In think are magical or really on purpose, it's because... Or pie-based solutions. It is a pie... Yeah, it is a... Pie-based compromises.

In this game, why did you guys decide that? It was the... We ran out of time. I mean, the example that won't get anybody in trouble is that, like, why does Mario have a mustache?

It's like, because we couldn't draw any other significant feature on his face. Yeah, like, we didn't indicate face on this character. Yeah, it's always this

practical, boring reason. And even for things that piss you off now, it's just like some boring business reason that's not going to satisfy your curiosity. Also, my parents had to explain to me who Jane Fonda was when I was 12 years old. And all the women in the world, I had to marry Jane Fonda.

And I guess he's forced to eat a TV dinner at some point. I have a clip called that. I didn't know they still made TV dinners this bad. After dinner, can I watch cartoons? No. There's peas in my fruit cobbler. There's peas everywhere.

So, just go and watch some cartoons. No. I'm sorry about the dinners. I'll make up for it tomorrow night. Hey, who's up for some cartoons? No one. Don't worry. Hey, tomorrow night, how about making some of your patented pork chops?

Sure. Oh, dear, I can't. I've got three protest rallies tomorrow. Don't! 20 million women in the world, and I had to marry Jane Fonda. Wow, I think that's a... Pretty sure there's more than 20 million. There are way more than 20 million women in the world. I think it's in the term of 3 billion.

I think, yeah, Homer's too... No, no, it has to be a reference to the 91 population. Well, even then it would have been 2 billion women in the world. But, man, there's peas everywhere. That's one of the few. Dude, that's so good for TV. I used to think of that. That is one of the few Simpsons lines that I'll say like once a week and no one reacts to it.

And I'm like, the TV dinner thing? Like, what? I've also never heard the phrase TV dinner in like 20 years. Because I think dinner was a much more formal process where it's like, and like what i've also never heard the the phrase tv dinner in like 20 years because i think like dinner was a much more formal process where it's like okay you're eating frozen slop you're just gonna sit on the couch for this meal everybody eats everything microwave pretty much yeah in front of the television and then okay and then also the parody they make of marge on the show this uh i so one of the best moments ever. I loved it so much. Don't do that!

Don't do that! Hey! Don't do that! Take that, you dumb squirrel! Back in the day, when you would call a friend just to talk on the phone, and you would just

talk for like an hour I remember it was like this is probably second or third grade and just being like no friend listen Simpsons

is really funny and he'd just be like I watched it once it was dumb I don't like it when you're a kid it's zero or one you're either like

I love it or I hate it and I remember like holding the phone up to the TV because I'd recorded like listen he hits the head off of this squirrel

making fun of this lady. I remember putting the phone up and when I put the phone back, he hung up. Oh, man. I thought you were going to seal the deal with that one. No. I remember reenacting that scene at a lunch table multiple times with friends. It really stuck with me for a long time. The sound of them hitting each other. Once a day...

Take that, you dumb squirrel! Once a day with my girlfriend, I do something I'm not supposed to, like walk backwards down an escalator. Just something silly that's kind of breaking the rules. And she's from the Midwest and says, don't do that. And then I adopt this. Don't do that.

And then I showed it to her and think, this is why I love her. She's like, that's hilarious. And now says, Marge's don't do that when I'm misbehaving in public. I feel like I've heard her do that. Yeah, you will hear her do it if we hang out at night. It's guaranteed. If there's a drink in me,

it's going to happen. I don't know what this clip is, but it leaves it in a runner-up line of the show. That woman. That's Screwball Marge Simpson. We've got to stop her. But how? Drop an anvil on her?

Hit her on the head with a piano. Stuff her full of TNT, then throw a match down her throat and run. I have fancy degrees, and that's the best you can do? You make me sick. Alex Rocco is so good. So great. But that is like the 18th stupid executive board.

Definitely the writers had a feeling about executives at this point. I do think, though, it's also like an old Hollywood-style guy dealing with Harvard writers, which you'd see later in other episodes where they play up the Harvard qualities of these people. Yeah, this is my runner-up line of this show. That's the joke.

You know, some of these stories are pretty good. I never knew mice lived such interesting lives. That's great. And then the SmartLive thing happens, which that felt like now. It still feels like now. But have we hit the redesign to Chee and Scratchy, or is that later in the episode? That's after SmartLive. From Alex Rocco's performance, him reading the hate mail and like things are, like letters are exploding.

I will never watch your show, buy any of your products, or break if I see you crossing the street. Wow, that's cool. And that's again, like, that's the kind of, it's a TV show, or it's a video game, or it's a movie that

got delayed and it's like, you would write that to someone over entertainment? I guess it's a video game. Or it's a movie that got delayed and it's like you would write that to someone over entertainment? I guess it's not new. It's not just the comment section. I think you have to be more devoted to write a letter and then mail it. It's also like the anonymity is not there. It's like here's my return address. Here's my address.

So the Smartline thing, I feel like I've heard that argument now. The similar way of thinking like, oh, you don't like violence on TV? You know, there was this thing called the... Hold on, hold on. Hilarious. There's nothing wrong with it. Excuse me. Excuse me. He was addressing me. I know. There's nothing wrong with it.

Excuse me. There is. I think that it's a bad influence on children. Give me a break. I think that is a bunch of baloney. And here's why. In preparing for this debate, I did a little research and I discovered a startling thing. There was violence in the past long before cartoons were invented. I see. Fascinating.

Yeah, and there was something called the Crusades, for instance. Tremendous violence. Many people killed. The darn thing went on for 30 years. And this was before cartoons were invented. That's right, Kent. So much for your viewpoint. So much for your viewpoint. That's basically every third Facebook post right now.

You're so right, Henry. It is like the fallacy. You can't care about X because Y is worse. So don't care about anything because it's all fucked. Oh, God. So much for your viewpoint. And the fact that that is – this is also from an era where broadcast primetime news was like the way you got your information. It wasn't newspapers anymore.

It was Nightline, and it was 60 Minutes. And there weren't podcasts. You just invited amateurs on your news show. This was the level of discourse. Local experts. And then generations were raised as if all that was correct. So have we gotten to the redesign, the change, and scratching? So that's why they changed.

Marge tells them to write in those letters and then... I do have that, yes. Is this Marge Simpson? Yes. The Marge Simpson who fixes up cartoons can't be violent anymore? Yes.

This is Myers. I'm here with the writers. Listen, you're so smart. How do we end this picture? Well, what's the problem you're having? Okay, here it is. Itchy just stole

Scratchy's ice cream cone and... Well, make it a pie. Pies are easier to draw. Okay, a pie. Anyway, Scratchy is understandably upset. So we figured he could, you know, just grab Itchy and toss him in a bucket of acid. Oh, dear.

But then we remembered that this might be interpreted as violence, which is morally wrong now, thanks to you. So, what's your big idea? How do we end this? Let's see. Oh, couldn't Itchy share his pie with Scratchy? Then they would both have pie.

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the zooming into scratchy's mouth like the storyboards on the back are haunting they're so they're so evil and weird like what is happening in that moment yeah and that's where all the animators are that we talked about like that's where it's all them hanging out with them so they get friendly and this brought me back to i listened to this uh really interesting like panel discussion that brad bird was on brad bird was on there with um the creators of aqua teen hunger forest and the creators of south park and in it he has a quick diversion about how terrible the 60s Tom and Jerry cartoons were. Oh, dude. They were the worst.

I love them. But I cannot believe they got away with that and that was the norm in entertainment. But he is complaining about how this was when they made Tom and Jerry nice. And he couldn't stand how they made Tom and Jerry nice. And they were friends. And they couldn't hurt each other anymore. And I feel like this bit here was a lot of him in it. Or that same kind of extra grind of why do Tom and Jerry anymore?

If you're just going to have to make them nice. Are those the Eastern European ones you're talking about? I know what you're talking about. They just released those on DVD. Like in a weird collection I know an animation historian he was posting about that on Facebook I'm gonna

get it he was kind of mocking them and I threw in a joke and the guy who worked on those episodes who's like 94 whoa put a reply to my comment like we worked really hard on those and

I had to like apologize to a 90 year old man about his bad cartoons so well this is the product of the new achieve scratchy Well, this is the product of the new Acheed Scratchy. Porch Pals? Pack it for me.

So happy. Lemonade? Please. I made it just for you. You are my best friend. Itchy and Scratchy seem to have lost their edge. I think it conveys a very nice message of sharing. I think it sucks.

And my only argument against Marge, because I don't want to seem like not the guy complaining about PC police, you're complaining about a thing that wasn't meant to be enjoyed by you at all yeah and so as a result everybody who did enjoy them you have now hurt whether you found them to be morally redeemable or not and i'm just a huge fan of giant violent cartoons we all know this the more violent the more fun i'm going to have with it i also the commentary brings up that they basically are gay now like it's not yeah not It's not that they're kind of pretty, but they're dancing together. I keep reading that Ren and Stimpy book. That never went to my head when I was a little kid.

They give Scratchy eyelashes and he's like, oh, thank you, Richie. The picture of Scratchy smiling, holding a glass of lemonade is among my favorite Simpsons screen grabs of all time. The dead look in his eyes as he's smiling. You make really good lemonade, Scratchy. Yeah.

Oh, thank you. And this is another one of my favorite clips when Michelangelo's David is touring the country and she's making a quick stop. The art event of the century. The greatest masterpiece of Italian Renaissance. Michelangelo's David and a coast-to-coast tour of the United States.

Sir, which cities will be included in your itinerary? New York, Springfield, and if we have time, Chicago, Boston, Los Angeles. That's great. I think we missed the scene, though. Like, all the children across the world are turning off Itchy & Spongy, at least in Springfield. And going outside. Yeah, and it was pointed out in the commentary, like, a lot of people at the time misinterpreted this. But it's like, no, we mean the opposite of this.

Like, kids would not do this. this like kids would not actually do this they would still watch it no matter what but yeah we're not yeah just because violent cartoons were gone children would not turn into like what everybody dreams the 1940s children of a huge he-man fan yes that is correct we will watch any i would watch any trash. USA Cartoon Express. It was on TV and it's 90 degrees with 100% humidity outside. I wouldn't be happy about it and I'd maybe complain to my friends that Itchy and Scratchy isn't as good anymore.

I would watch Mr. Wizard because it was on. Because it was on. Though when they do their outdoor fun stuff, that's one of the most impressive animation things ever. It is beautiful. It's such a long pan. It felt like a reference because the gags were so specific. But maybe it's just trying to be.

Well, the painting fence thing definitely was. That's Tom Sawyer. Yeah. I just didn't know if the whole sequence was from an establishing shot of some 40s movie. And then when they describe what they did that day, like Bart says he is going to make a soapbox racer, which is why they later make an episode about that. They totally mind that. And then Lisa says she saw a grackle.

What the fuck is a grackle? So me as a little kid, that made me laugh because we were watching that episode right when we had moved to Atlanta and in our new home, we were getting birds outside we never saw before and my mom looked it up in a book like, oh, that looks like a crow. Oh, no, it's smaller than a crow.

It's a grackle. I'm a big grackle fan, by the way. So we knew exactly what grackles were. And you understood why the joke was so boring. Without cartoons, you're impressed by a variant on a crow. And Lisa went to bird camp eventually. She did. We didn't see it, though.

But seeing a grackle is like nothing. It's the same as a crow. It's just like a smaller crow. They're super common, yeah. In some places, at least. But yeah, Marge is still hard up. Very proud of herself. Got itchy and scratchy, sanitized.

But trying to introduce a clip I don't know what it is. Snot is not happy with Michelangelo. Michelangelo. Get dressed, Marge. You've got to lead our protest against this abomination. This is my line of the show. But that's Michelangelo's daven, Marge. You've got to lead our protest against this abomination. This is my line of the show. But that's Michelangelo's David. It's a masterpiece.

It's filth. It graphically portrays parts of the human body, which, practical as they may be, are evil. I like that statue. I told you she was soft on full frontal nudity. Come on, girls. Practical as they may be are evil. That happens to me. it happens to me all the

time is in it's the animation fan every time anything song of the south happens it's like look chris i'm like damn i'm not defending song of the south i just really like those cartoons this does get into america's uh puritan heritage there you go violence fine any kind of sexuality even done in the most tasteful way, no one should see it. I like that they got away with putting a penis on TV. They got to draw his penis. Even though it's just two lines. Because it's nothing.

It's a two-inch penis. It's meaningless. It's frankly embarrassing. That's because they would have drawn... Michelangelo was not going to put him erect. Then it's not art. It's not the anatomy. And then it proves that David was not a shower.

He's not going to allow that. That's true. We... I think, like, this finale... See one a week, so... The finale of this episode, though, I think is coming down against any kind of fundamentalist belief

where, with Marge, context is important. She's not against any kind of outlandish content or, like, inappropriate content. Like, the fact that it's a priceless work of art is important, but's not against any kind of outlandish content or inappropriate content. The fact that it's a priceless work of art is important, but these cartoons were for her kids, so that was something entirely different for her. So I don't know if you guys saw it the same way as I did. I don't entirely enjoy the end of the episode, even though I'm the guy who gets kind of annoyed of all four of us by people constantly like, This isn't—I didn't like this! That happens all the time. Like, relax. There's no need to write a letter like this isn't I didn't like this that happens all the time like relax

there's no need to write a letter about it you just didn't like something but just as she's like yeah I guess I don't have a point no Smart still has a point yeah the ending seemed kind of like one person can make a difference but most of the time they probably shouldn't yeah like that that speech I didn't like at all and it's supposed to be kind of a funny like

you're free to complain about itchy and scratchy all you want and give like and your reasons why, not give up entirely because you like something other people hate. On the commentary, they say the strength of this episode is that they don't take a side, but I feel like I like episodes with arguments or a specific position that they're taking about something. I feel like it does kind of waffle by the end. It felt like a South Park-y thing of like, everybody's wrong. Everyone's wrong and we have a point. So why bother? I guess Marge, it's more like Marge created

a monster she couldn't control and that she was leading them in the right direction or a better direction and then they took control of it because they were more puritanical than she thought. I mean, that happens with movements. It happened with Occupy Wall Street. It happens with, I guess this baby happened all in history. The darn thing that happens with movements. It happens with Occupy Wall Street. It happens with, I guess it's maybe

happened all in history. The dark thing happens all the time. Though, I also loved Homer's, they're worse than us. Wait, hold on. I got all this. This is Marshall Lansing. Is it a masterpiece or just some guy with his pants down? That's our topic tonight on Smartline.

Now, Mrs. Simpson, why are you against this statue? I'm not. I think everyone in Springfield should see it. Wait a minute. Aren't you Marge Simpson the wacko? Yes and no. Hold on, hold on, hold on. How can you be for one form of freedom of expression like our big

naked friend over there and be against another form like Itchy and Scratchy? Good question. Well, I guess I can't, which is a shame because I really hate those cartoons. Oh, yeah? Well, what do you have to say to all those Marge Simpson wannabes out there who wish

to suppress David's doodle? Hmm, I don't know. I guess one person can make a difference, but most of the time they probably shouldn't. Well, I guess that settles that. I'd like to alert our affiliates that we will be ending our show early tonight, just now,

when our topic will be religion, which is the one true faith? I like how unprepared Kent Brockman is. Well, they invited someone on without, like, are you against this or not? Like, no. Where is this producer? I like to think

I'm of both minds I think anybody who writes a letter about not liking a cartoon should get a fucking life and it's usually a waste of time but also that ending just puts a sting in me like I guess one person can't make a difference and I'm not allowed to say what I don't like

just yelling at Marge like oh you thought you could change things but you were wrong I found it deeply unsatisfying even guys just yelling at Marge, like, oh, you thought you could change things, but you were wrong. I found it deeply unsatisfying, even though I am against Marge this whole episode. You can't just relent like that completely. You're allowed to not like this cartoon and push for better quality. I guess the silver lining is

children will be exposed to a stone penis, whether they like it or not. And it's a great cap from Homer. Angelo's Dave. David. Oh. what's wrong marge here the kids have a chance to see a great work of art and instead they're home watching a cat and mouse disembowel each other hey don't worry marge pretty soon every boy and girl at springfield elementary school is gonna come and see this thing. Really? Why? They're

forcing him! Man, he takes such delight in that. Well, isn't that nice? Nice happy ending. One other note I got from the commentary is they say that people want an Itchy and Scratchy spinoff. They talked about how this episode had more Itchy and Scratchy

clips than ever before. And you get sick of them by the end. You're like, enough Itchy and Scratchy spinoff. They talked about how this episode had more Itchy and Scratchy clips than ever before. And you get sick of them by the end. You're like, enough Itchy and Scratchy. We have Hold That Feline, Kitchen Cut-Ups, and Messenger of Death. And then just all those little clips

that aren't even from a named cartoon. It's too much Itchy and Scratchy. And having played the Itchy and Scratchy game, I never, ever, ever want to see Itchy and Scratchy again alone. When does it come up? When is the joke about with Quentin Tarantino

and violence is everywhere? It's in breakfast cereals, man. Oh, wait. It's probably season six or seven, probably. Yeah, but what's the episode? Because it's about violence and... No, oh, yeah. It could be Itchy and Scratchy Land.

I think it's... No, no, no. It's later than that. Well, we'll get there. The animation style is like season seven or eight. Because it starts with him hacking off his ear, and then they both dance, and then they kill Tarantino,

and then they both dance. It felt more like a critic joke, because this week's episode directed by Quentin Tarantino. I'm sure it was a Mike Rees announcement. To harp on the topic, but as an animation fan, we grew up at a time when people started to complain about the violence of cartoons that we were watching from our parents and grandparents generation yes and you think about it now and like where what are the violent cartoons i think they're gone because people like

marge made their voices known and i don't really miss i love my old violent looney tunes but like i'm trying to think of something i feel like ren and stimpy was the last gasp of that because they were trying to do the old Looney Tunes style. But you still couldn't even show people getting hit in the face or whatever. This was a crazy cut I noticed. I love old Popeye cartoons. He punches a baby in the third cartoon. I love it. And he punches.

Every joke is he punches people so hard they explode into things. That's how hard he punches people so hard they explode into things. Like, that's how hard he punches people. But I was watching on Nicktoons, or the Nicktoon Fairly Oddparents. They had one that was a parody of Popeye. But when it came time to punch them, they had to cut away. Because the rule was like, nope, no punching. You can't show a fist connecting with another person because that will influence children too much. So I just, for people who, like me,

who might complain about people complaining about violence in cartoons, I think a compromise has been met slowly and I think it's one of the best times for animation ever and I haven't really noticed

any loss of quality. You mean like after 9 o'clock anything goes and you can, like Adult Swim does whatever the fuck I guess. It's not the,

I mean I guess I'm talking about like when I'm watching Adventure Time or Steven Universe. When I see those shows, it's like I only thought about this right now. That there's nothing violent in this and this is great. And maybe there's a happy medium. But there's also no adult violent cartoons. Maybe we should get on that. Metalocalypse?

I guess that... What the fuck am I saying? Like half the team of Aqua team of aqua team dies every single time i mean they're i mean the violence is not as elaborate or uh well animated as i think it was just it was a matter of of children seeing this kind of violence yeah i think it in the 1940s people were accepting of a certain amount of violence uh with cartoons yeah it seems between how easy it is to play games and movies that are equally as violent, the uniqueness of seeing a cartoon character get blown up is kind of like, whatever. I don't know that a 10-year-old holds their attention as much.

If he picks the wrong flower and it turns out to be a mallet and he gets smacked in the face. I mean, if anything, we need to curtail these violent video games, right? Here we go. They're the real problem. So I guess that's been Talking Simpsons going on on that note. I'm going to move it on to comic books. They're too violent. Yes, take that, Spidey.

My name is Bob Mackie. I run the classic gaming podcast Retronauts. Check that out. Just subscribe to it. You'll love it. And I also write for US Gamer. Just haven't hit it in two episodes. I'm sorry.

I miss it. I write for USGamer.net. Check out my articles there. Who else wants to plug stuff? Christopher and Tista. I work over at LazerTime, LazerTimePodcast.com. We also do a LazerTime Pop Culture Show,

which deals with a lot of issues that I've let out on these episodes. Relevant issues. Yes, me being a grown-up man baby, not letting people censor my 1940s cartoons. All of that and more on the LazerTime Show. Hands off my tunes, Obama. I did do something animation-related somewhat recently that I was very proud of, and that on the laser time show hands off my tunes obama i did do something animation

related somewhat recently that i i was very proud of and that was to try and define every impression the genie made in a land i love that article yeah uh and i'm h-e-n-e-r-e-y-g on twitter and i also do a cape crisis the comic book podcast on the laser time network and as you know this episode is brought to you by patreon.com slash LazerTime. You did it, people. We did it. We got Brett on as well. But if you want to listen

to the first season of Talking Simpsons, it's only available to people who pledge $5 or more a month on Patreon.com. And speaking of that, Patreon,

there were new goals added when I joined. Thank you, everybody. VG Empire is the video game music podcast I've been running for four years now. There's some new goals added that you guys have pretty much unlocked.

So keep it coming because there's more stuff there. But that just gives us more ability to make fun stuff and keep all this going. But VG Empire on Twitter and on iTunes, a game music podcast. Well, that's it for this week. Next week, we will finally enter the fabled year of 1991. We'll see you then.