Talking Simpsons - Talking Simpsons - Lady Bouvier's Lover With Toby Jones

Episode Date: October 15, 2025

"You know, you remind me of a poem I can't remember, and a song that may never have existed, and a place I'm not sure I've ever been to..." - Abe Simpson Marge plays matchmaker and forges a love connection between her mother and Abe Simpson, despite Homer's protests that this pairing will make their children retroactively inbred. But their cozy senior romance takes a turn for the worse when Mr. Burns enters the picture and sweeps Jackie off her feet with his incredible dancing and kissing skills. Listen in, for each Talking Simpsons could be your last! Our guest: Toby Jones, writer and director of AJ Goes to the Dog Park Support this podcast and get over 200 ad-free bonus episodes by visiting Patreon.com/TalkingSimpsons and becoming a patron! And please follow the official Twitter, @TalkSimpsonsPod, not to mention Bluesky and Instagram!

This podcast is brought to you by patreon.com slash talking Simpsons. Head there to check out exclusive podcasts like Talking Futurama, Talk King of the Hill, the What a Cartoon movie podcast, and tons more. I heartily endorse this event or product. Ahoy, hoy, everybody, and welcome to Talking Simpsons, where we give our listeners the frowning of a lifetime. I'm one of your host, the P. Pigley, Hogswine, Super Smorg, Night Manager, Bob Mackie, and this is our chronological exploration of the Simpsons, who is here with me today, as always. That's right, money. Your money's happiness is all that monies. It's Henry Gilbert.

And who is our special guest on the line? A boy having an out-of-body experience, Toby Jones. And this week's episode is ladies. Bouvier's lover. That's not my mother. I'll be back in a jiffy. Can I come to? This episode originally aired on May 12th, 1994, and as always, Henry will tell us what

happened on this mythical day in real world history. Oh my God! The Crow tops the box office, Weezer's Blue album is released, and Phil Hartman leaves Saturday Night Live as. as a cast member. Oh, man, these are all things I can talk about. Thank God, because we're living in 1994, everybody. Bob, you just watched The Crow recently, didn't you?

If your letterbox, if I remember your letterbox correctly. Yes, for the second time, and it is such a 90s superhero movie. I have not seen it since it came out on VHS, but I love how in the 90s, we were adapting superheroes no one had ever heard of, and in their movie, we see the Orton story, they do what they're expected to do, and then they go away forever. They either die or they fight the ultimate villain and kill them. So, like, in the first Batman movie, he kills the Joker and that's it. Okay, Batman's story is done.

In The Crow, spoilers, the crow gets the revenge he needs to get, and then he returns to the grave, and that's it for the Crow. Although there are two more sequels and a very Vancouver television show to follow. It's all the post-Tim Burton era of these superhero movies, because there was the shadow, of course, the Phantom, of course, Dick Tracy. And what I'm currently in the process of watching, of course, the Dark Man series, all of which do indeed follow. Darkman follows the thing you're describing completely to a T.

I think The Crow also was mixed into like, you know, let's pull in the gothic stuff, but it gets away from like the 40s style. And instead it's like, well, the Ninja Turtles are a popular indie comic book sensation. What if we pulled in an indie comic that has like seven issues total that were even existed? Yeah, it's things like The Crow and Mystery Men is part of the flaming carrot universe, which is the fact I only learned about a decade ago. Like, oh, this was a comic book. Of course, I never saw it. They based these things on such small print. indie publisher things and unfortunately the crow also i think got extra infamy but popularity at

its time because of the tragic death of the star brandon lead during the filming so it made it you know certainly it already was like a goth movie and like a made for the nirvana generation kind of thing and also this is like within a month of the passing of kirk cobain so it's like it was fitting with the like the bad time vibes of 1994 which those people didn't know what to be sad about, I say, from 2025. That's true. We're definitely talking about what I would call Toby's older sister culture here. You know, both of my sisters really into Nirvana and Kirk Cobain. They were both very into the crow. One of them had a huge crush on Brandon Lee. And they also owned the Blue Album on CD before I ever got my appropriately in-cell-like teenage boy hands on it.

Blue album I knew as like a radio hit. But then after Pinkerton's lack of success, I listened to both all of the time for basically four years straight, I think, at least three years straight. I had a kind of similar story where I liked Weezer based on the radio hits, you know, like the sweater song and Buddy Holly. In like 1998, I was buying a lot of UCDs. I was like, oh, it's the blue album. You know, I never heard the whole blue album. Let me buy that. And then I listened to it. I was like, this is incredible. And Weezer has another CD that everyone hated and I like that one too. So I spent, like, you said, Henry, about five years listening to both of these albums over and over and over again. I can probably like transcribe every note from the blue album, from

My name is Jonas, only in dreams. It's a fantastic album. I wasn't clued in at all to, like, what was going on in the world of Weezer because I was really young, but my oldest sister, Hillary, got me a copy of Pinkerton on CD for Christmas one year, and I didn't know anything of its reputation or anything like that. So to paint you a picture, I throw on Weezer, Pinkerton, while playing for the first time my other Christmas present that I got Banjo Tuwee on Nintendo 64, and I do them at the same time, and both of which I connect you very strongly.

And then I went back to Blue Album after I really. love Pinkerton. And I was there front row seat when Maladryte dropped in stores to get to get my reaction to that. Yeah, Weas is a lot like The Simpsons in that. Their best era was the 90s. And then there are many people that try to tell you, oh, this new album's better than the other ones. They've never been greater. And then you listen and you're like, it's okay. It's not as bad as Beverly Hills. But I guess they've settled into a nice B-minus territory with their music. Yeah, I guess you could say the couple of like songs you might dig that come out on each new album the Weezer puts out is equivalent to the couple of episodes you might dig in a modern season

of the Simpsons. And also another Simpsons connection, yes, Phil Hartman, part of a general turnover at Saturday Night Live that year, also leaving where Melanie Hutzel, Rob Schneider, Sarah Silverman, and Julius Sweeney, all leaving at the end of this season. And aren't they gearing up for the really weird season that will follow in the fall with, like, Chris Elliott and Janine Garofalo and I think Michael McKeon is part of that crew as well? I believe so. Oh, yeah, it's the weird, like, bridge season. And then the end of it, I think, is when they get rid of Farley and Sandler and Rock. I want to believe that that's at the end of the 95 season.

Yeah, I know the beginning of the fall 95 season is the big refresh with, like, Sherry O'Terry and Will Ferrell and on a gas tire, etc., etc. Goat boys there. But this will free up Phil Hartman to move to Los Angeles and do news radio and appear on the Simpsons even more. And as far as I recall, only happy things happen once he gets there. Yes. No, I didn't see what he was doing beyond May of 1998. Never looked into that, but I'm sure it's good stuff. Oh, and one last bit of news from this week.

Despite Bart's objections, the people of South Africa can now vote in free Democratic elections where Nelson Mandela is inaugurated. No! I mean, great. That's what happened in the week. This episode of The Simpsons aired. And joining us once again is our pal Toby Jones, writer and director of the film, AJ Goes to the Dog Park. Welcome back to the show, Toby. and Toby was last with us for season 13's

Blame It on Lisa, the Brazil episode. Who could forget? It's carnival! We talked about Shusha, we talked about how they insulted an entire country, it was great. I've definitely quoted that episode since that recording more than I ever expected.

And also since then, Asia Goes to the Dog Park did screen in Brazil at a film festival. Oh, nice. How many monkeys were in attendance? That's a good question. I did not make it to the screening. I did not get a photo of the crowd,

so I don't know what percentage was monkeys. Those monkeys better have paid, is what I'm saying. After that one, me and Bob, I feel like for months on the podcast, we're saying everything here is something. It's a great quote. Yeah, it's a great line. And I think you're working on that film, like, you know, at least two years ago when we last had you on the podcast, Toby. That's true. Yeah. I started writing AJ Goes to the Dog Park probably in, I want to say, 2019, finished it in 2020, early 2021 as just like a fun exercise that I was doing just on the side of my animation day jobs. And then once we all were vaccinated, still during the pandemic, because we were vaccinated,

I was able to head to Fargo and we started chipping away at shooting this thing, which is absurd, gag-driven comedy we shot for no money with a mostly local non-professional crew in Fargo, North Dakota, in everyone's like backyards and porches, basically. And yeah, we finally finished it last year. And we've had kind of a whirlwind experience playing it in film festivals and touring it. And now, right now, it is now available for. for rental on digital marketplaces. So you can rent this silly little movie that we made

if you feel like checking it out. That's awesome. And tying into it, you also directed one of the music videos for Rebecca Sugar's new album. That is correct. Rebecca was one of the earliest and biggest advocates for Agent Ghost of the Dog Park.

She read an early version of the script. We did a table read in L.A. with all of our friends there. And she was always encouraging me to finish it and go make it. And during the production of the movie, she reached out and she was like, hey, if you'd like me to do a song for the movie,

know, I'd be down. And I was like, yes, I definitely would like that. So we had a kind of a lengthy couple of conversations about like the themes of the movie and how we want them reflected in this song. Because the movie is a very silly, absurd movie. It maybe doesn't exactly jump at you that it even has themes. And that's why we thought it would be fun to at the end credits when her songs plays, gives you an opportunity to kind of reflect back a little bit and think a little bit about the movie in a less literal way. Instead of saying, this is a song about a boy in his dog park and this movie is called AJ Goes to the Dog Park, as great as that song would have been. We did a less literal interpretation of the

material, more related to both Rebecca and I's connection to the kinds of themes of the material. It's a great music video about many sleepless nights editing things, which I'm sure it wasn't based on your real life experiences at all. Not at all. It was the song and also the movie and the music video based on the fact that we dedicated over a decade of our lives to working at Cartoon Network and then emerged having a bunch of time just disappeared and kind of like, what the hell happened? Where have I been? None of those things are touched upon in any of this material.

That song was the first one that Rebecca made for what ended up being the new album, Lonely Magic, which is also, I think, right about to come out. And I've heard it, and I can tell you, it's phenomenal. So so much good stuff coming out. Well, you know, it had a lot of late nights. Working on this episode of The Simpsons, I'm sure. I'm sure.

I'm sure. This is another Bill and Josh classic, isn't it? And another episode with a huge focus on Mr. Burns, although he comes in pretty late. I think season five might be the most Burns heavy season. I think so. He takes over, like, he literally shoves his way into Act 3 and just like, nope, my show now, Mr. Burns episode. You didn't think it was, but it was. And I'm okay with it.

That's really funny. It's like there's a suddenly, yeah, the episode, you're watching it from the family and grandpa's point of view. And then suddenly smack in the middle of the episode, there's a lengthy Mr. Burns scene. We're just seeing how Mr. Burns is doing in his perspective on everything because you can't not. And I treasure it. Even though the burn stuff comes in out of nowhere, it's not really set up in any way. By the turn of the millennium, Harry Shear is getting less involved with the show. They're writing less things for Burns. I think the people writing the show are less into Burns and this era of writers was into Burns. So I feel like anytime I see Burns, I'm excited. And then we're covering a season 15 episode or maybe we have covered it, but I'm doing prep for it now where it's a rare teens episode featuring Mr. Burns. I'm like, oh man, he just pops up so seldomly in later episodes. It's a real damn shame. And then, of course, he should have been the villain in the movie. we've litigated this already. Yeah. In three years, when we do our four-part,

10-hour collective The Simpsons movie discussion, we'll get into it quite a bit, I know. Wait, have you guys not done the movie before? Of course you have, right, in some capacity. We've covered it for two other podcasts, but not our own. Okay, okay. You could do a whole season of episodes on the movie. Oh, we're going to pad the hell out of this thing.

Don't you worry. Yeah. Well, I've thought about this, too, of like, well, why didn't we do the movie? Like, in the same month was the release of the Simpsons, the game, which I also feel like that's at least one, episode of our podcast should be The Simpsons the game. I fully expect your coverage of the Simpsons movie to be the final and definitive take

on the matter. So no pressure there. Go ahead. Bill and Josh, actually, there's some fun behind the scene stuff about this because during the production of this and there's a script out there or Josh Weinstein, one of the writers with Bill Oakley, has posted pages from the record draft of this. There's not the full thing out there, as I sometimes can find. But it's dated October 25th, 1993, which is helpful because also in October of 1993, the LA Daily News published an article called

Simpsons Actors Voice Their Appreciation, which is the behind the scenes it's a fun story on the writing or at least recording of this episode. And you can actually find it out there

republished by the Desert News. It actually is still online. You can read the whole thing on the Desert News, but there's a couple fun things from it. And including, you mentioned Harry Shearabob, that this is where it's a source

of one of the on-the-record's Harry Shear grousing, things got a little off balance in terms of the characters early in the season, but I think it's largely straightened out. Yes, I have heard that Harry Shere quote before. I know, like, the collection of 10 Harry Shira quotes where he's grumpy about the show. I mean, I wonder what he's specifically referring to there because I will, if we're talking about season five, he's not entirely wrong that like when David Merkin takes over,

there's a little bit of like extreme early iterations of what they call jerkass Homer. It's just that the episodes are so funny that it doesn't really matter that much. Like, I feel like in like Homer goes to college, and Boy Scouts in the Hood. He's like crazy, unsympathetic and mean, but it's just so funny you don't care at all. I wonder if that's what he's referring to. I don't know.

He actually would be right in saying that also about Deep Space Homer that is like a very off-balance character version. You know, then I'm going to be watching Spinal Tap 2 very closely to see how on-balance his character remains. This is his chance. Hey, the episodes hold up in the end, 30-plus years later. So a few preamble things. So the title reference, Lady Bouvier's Lover,

It's a reference to the 1928 D.H. Lawrence book Lady Chatterley's Lover, which was the subject of an obscenity trial. The publisher won, but the book was banned in many countries. But because of this obscenity trial, Lady Chatterley's lover became a huge hit. And they're really more focused on the 1981 movie, which was a very steamy movie, like a very famously sexual movie. And of course, it's received many other adaptations over time. In 2022, I believe Netflix did their own version of this. And thanks to the Mystery Science Theater episode, Zombie Nightmare, I know that Adam West was in the softcore porno, Young Lady Chatterley 2. Because there's a sketch, it's one of my favorite sketches in the show where they're trying to cheer up Adam West and they're all writing letters to him saying, let's all mention things we like about him. And I think it's Crow saying, well, I loved you on young lady chatterley too. And Mike is like, you should not be watching that or how did you get access to that? So that's where Adam West was in the 80s. He was being in zombie nightmare and in the non-sexual roles in softcore porno films.

It's like that Saturday Night Live joke about like, no, no, no, I don't star in pornography. I host pornography. He was very close to hosting pornography. And I did a little research into Jackie Bouvier. Now, shockingly, this is really the last big appearance of Jackie in the classic era, Marge's mom, of course, in terms of having a major speaking role and being involved in the plot. So despite being this great James L. Brooksie character, apparently her.

her next episode isn't until 2010's Mo Letter Blues, which is in season 21. Of course, she's in fear of flying and some flashbacks, and she pops up in the background here and there, but there is not a episode where Jackie has some role in the plot until, I believe, 16 years later in the show's timeline. Wow. In the last few years, there was like another Marge story that involved, like, a scene with Jackie appearing in it, and it really felt like it was as hard as the Marge voice sounds for Julie Kavanaugh today. Jacqueline Bouvier sounds like torturous to do to Julie

Cavner right now. Well, I mean, like all of America, I watched the L.M.K. trailer. I was on the edge of my seat. And I will say Julie Kavner speaking voice essentially is Jacqueline Bouvier's speaking voice in 1994. She has kind of aged into that role, I think. So you're saying that doing Jacqueline Bouvier could be easier because it's closer to the natural voice and doing Marge then is harder. I would tell her to give it a shot. It feels like Jacqueline might be the easier voice to do. Margie's got to pitch it up. a little bit, which is it gets harder to do that over time. We've heard many

voice actors unable to hit those same pitches as they get older, which is just the natural product of aging. Seems like they could do a season where Jacqueline moves into the Simpsons House and becomes a more prominent character. And Homer gets hit with an aging ray. This episode is like one of several

pitched plots they had kind of moved together. They talk about it some on the commentary and then later in recently years like Josh Weinstein has posted some of their pitch documents of like here's a list of pitches and they mentioned one of them was the idea would be like oh Abe gets hurt on Mr. Burns's property and it turns into like a misery parody and he thinks Mr. Burns is trying to kill him and also Josh more recently on Twitter

shared a pitch where a B plot was Abe and Burns were competing over the same old love that they had previously lost to Robert Mitchum in a duel of hearts. Yeah it sounds like the misery plot was originally part of this episode but the script was 80 pages long and they had to cut a ton of things out of it. If you could have heard the sounds that me and Maddie made when they said 80-page script in that commentary, we were just like, yo! I got to say, I'm impressed, though, that there was a version of this story that had that entire thing in it, and that they were able to very smartly edit it down into what it is.

You know, they were able to refocus it and create a great episode, even though, I guess, the original even pitch wasn't even there anymore. Yeah, what I think is interesting coincidence is that Bill and Josh wrote Marge Gets a Job, in which Marge works at the power plant, Burns falls in love with her, And then in the next season, we have Burns falling in love with her mom in a very similar plot. I'm not saying that they were cribbing from their old script, but I think they just loved writing for Burns and seeing him in love is just a new mode for him to function in. Also, you mentioned them cribbing from themselves, and this might be a little early to get into this, but there's the part in the commentary where they talk about all the bits that are also just sequels to bits from Sweet Seymour Skinner's badass song, which I remember watching this on DVD with my friend AJ when it came out on disc. and we were just loving what we considered to just be these great runners going on in the season.

And then in the commentary, they're just like, oh, yeah, we were just lazily just doing our own jokes from the last script we did. Yeah, it came up one of our earliest interviews with Bill Oakley in that he and Josh and David Merkin didn't really see eye to eye, but David Merkin trusted them to turn out really good scripts. So they had the luxury of like going off to work in their own office and pump out these scripts while everyone else is kind of working with David Merkin. I think that's why they were later trusted with running the show a few years later. It is true, though, because like, I don't know. most of my idea of what it was like working in the Merkin years comes from that unauthorized Simpsons book and the very, very vivid picture painted in that book. And I don't know how accurate

any of that is, but I imagine a very specific thing of like all the writers sitting in this room with David Merkin. So now I'm imagining Bill and Josh off to the side in their own office kind of freed from that particular scenario. Again, I don't know how true any of that stuff was anymore. I read it back when it came out in, you know, 2009 or whatever. Well, famously, at least to us Simpsons podcasters, Merkin's years are when he moved the writers away from the writing bungalow and into his office. See, I literally imagine Burns's office. Yes. I imagine David Merkin sitting in Burns's desk and then all the writers sitting in little chairs in front of the desk having a writer's meeting there. That unauthorized oral history or the unauthorized book

definitely painted like it as a almost like cult-like atmosphere with him at the top of it and everybody sits in lower seats around his desk. And that is consistent with other things we've heard in our own interviews. Though, I mean, hey, cults get results. And that includes like some of the best episodes of The Simpsons. I've never heard that saying Colts get results. That's great. I want that on a t-shirt. No, I mean, the fact is that five and six are among not just the best seasons of The Simpsons, but the best seasons of television ever made. So I mean, like, yeah, cults do get results. We should all join one. Yeah, I mean, I love David Merkney. He's very funny, but he seemed like he might have been a tough boss to work for, which is why so many writers

in his two seasons only last a year, which is uncommon when you see, like, the lifespan of a Simpsons writer on the staff. I also think it helped, like, for Bill and Joshia and for John Schwarzwalder that they all seem to just be like sat in a corner. So some of the Best Simpsons writers produce a script without much influence from Merkin and then Merkin in his great writers room,

cult great writers room, they all then workshop a great thing from two of the best Simpsons writers and then work on and instead of like bashing it all out together like with the non-Bill and Josh or Schwarzwillers script. Once they're done drinking blood from a skull, yes, they get a lot of great work done.

It's funny, too. It gets more cult-like when you get away from members of the skull and bones running the room. Kid, I care about it. It's the Harvard conspiracy. I'm joking about this episode, though. Also, I want to say it is directed perfectly by Wes Archer. Like, I'm in an extra Wes Archer appreciating mood these days because he was still series director on the King of the Hill 14th season. And it ruled. And I do think, like, he kept it consistently looking good in his old role. And this is a very handsome episode. You can really feel the, so many. just like little gag, small moments, but also big moments, have that extra love and attention that they're given that, like, Wes Archer was so good at. And so you're just like, this is like a true running on all cylinders, like classic. It's a true masterpiece. And fortunately, Matt Graney is, he is on the commentary, but he's not complaining about Annie Vision's production

doing big pupils on the character. Did not come up in this particular record. There's also a lot of just very unique, slightly off model expressions that I really love that would be stamped out within in the course of a few years that are fun, like especially the expressions on Marge and Homer when the random old lady is wheeled up to their car and they're just trying to not make eye contact? You know, immediately at the very start of the episode, there's a perfect expression right there that my personal guess is that it might be Brad Burt and Mended drawing because he loved drawing Krusty. But Krusty, like in the first like three seconds, when Krusty goes from his happy smile to when Mel taps him on the shoulder and it just a look on his face when it just

like goes to like, oh, that's such a great. great drawing of Krusty, pissed off that Mel is daring to question him for doing this dangerous Monkey Town Phil Harmonic. If you ask animators to have somebody mauled by apes, you're going to get great work. It looks quite horrible. Like, they go straight for his throat. Mel is dead. Yeah, I love that. They go to the throat and they're kind of still, but the sound is like chomping throat flesh ripping sound. And it's just like, it is very visceral. And we pull out and we see the Simpsons are in the mysterious Rumpus Room watching this. What a choice.

You better believe I popped when I saw the Rumpus Room. Huge deal. It's underused in the Simpsons world. Yeah, you know it's the Rumpus Room when you see Homer sitting on a beanbag, right? Yes, I guess they're only in there so Maggie can point at a credenza that's not in the living room. But they could have just drawn the credenza and it could have just disappeared for the sake of a joke. We know there's a credenza in the living room because that's where Homer keeps his records. We'll have to check the real Simpsons house in Las Vegas to save that credence.

Benzo is there. I'm still planning to break into there one of these days. So I also thought that Bart was about to say they'll be chewing on him for a while. I always forget that's what they say about Krusty being mulled by the Tigers at the similar opening scene of Mr. Plow. Also it's funny, Bob, you're talking about the next 15 episode we're doing. At about the almost exact same moment in the episode like time code wise, Homer is compared to a simian in that episode as well. He strangles Bart over it. Yeah, it's an older bit. And this is something that Bill and Josh did a lot, at least in the early scripts they're calling back to things from the earlier seasons and maggie's vocabulary lessons are very much a remnant of things like blood feud yeah there's like three jokes in this episode like

oh they haven't done that joke since like season two kind of thing and you're right maggie can you like it's them remembering as bill and josh were the first simpsons fans hired to the simpsons always worth remembering zibu this is where we get to find out what special day today is in our first clip homer you didn't do a very good job frost Maggie's birthday cake. What? It's not McGaggy's birthday? Oh. Oh.

Oh. Hey, hey, hey, stop it. I made a special cake for you to ruin. It's over there. Oh. Oh. Oh. Hello, everyone, except Homer.

Happy birthday, granddaughter. Marge, I think that's your father-in-law across the street. the street. Happy birthday! Everybody, get ready. Here comes the birthday girl in her very first dress. She's a little angel.

Yeah, I want to put a hook in her and hang her from our Christmas tree. What smells? Mm-mm. Damn killing it. Yeah, I forgot the next shot of Marge bringing Maggie in in her normal jumper is a poop joke. You're right. It's a great understated poop joke. Yeah, a subtle unspoken poop joke,

which is the best kind. I guess what smells is a form of being spoken, but... Sure, sure. Also, it isn't McGaggy's birthday. Like, as one prone to typos myself, I sometimes have that reaction like, what? This isn't talking slimpsons? It's funny, I just for the first time, like, mapped this out in my head that Marge made a cake, allowed Homer to put the letters on the cake, but Homer did not at that point want to eat the cake only then that he wanted to start eating it but then she also had separately made the other cake with the letters on it.

It's one of the things you do not question when you watch it, but I was just thinking about how funny it is. Putting that story together in your head just makes it even funnier. That Marge has accepted how stupid Homer is now that it's just like, well, I simply must bake two cakes to have one to be the magnet for Homer's idiocy rather than convince him to not ruin a cake.

Also, another of my favorite gifts to send people on birthdays, I think I did it to my brother just last year is Abe across the street talking to the unnamed neighbor with Happy Birthday I think Marge giving Homer a thing to ruin was becoming a slight runner

because Lisa's rival which is this production season that's when Marge gives Homer a camera to ruin to buy her some time to read her erotic novel Oh you're right And in production order It would have aired before this one if there hadn't been a certain earthquake

in Los Angeles Yeah, the North River earthquake messed up this whole season. Also speaking of flashback or them remembering season one stuff, when Marge comes into the room and you see the decorations on the wall, it's the Happy Little Elves are there. Wes Archer remember the Happy Little Elves who have been mostly forgotten in the Simpsons. I do get excited whenever I see The Happy Little Elves because there's something the show abandoned so quickly.

Brief comment about the earthquake. In my mind, it's what I consider to be what I call the Wes Craven's New Nightmare Earthquake. because famously in that movie there's a bunch of random footage they were shooting this movie and the earthquake happens they just got footage of like all the stuff that happened from the earthquake

and just like mixed it into the horror of the movie it's like a very strange thing so was it Freddie related horror was he causing property damage this time I think it was like an existential type of thing where it's like the world's falling apart and horror and evil is like coming in from the seams via Freddie as the eternal spirit of evil

and the earthquake is some sort of representation of that don't quote me on that though this is where the first of the Bill and Josh self callbacks is of setting up the one eyebrow baby whose name Gerald I do respect because they named him in their season so it's not a retcon name like Jeff Albertson

or whatever yeah not until the day the violence died I believe is when the baby gets the name I couldn't help but think about the one eyebrow baby because in the commentary track they're like oh we kind of abandoned him well what if we can do more with him and then not long after that recording probably is when the one eyebrow baby appears in updated no actually it would have been

Quite a while later, wouldn't have been that the One Eyebrow baby appeared in the updated intro. That would have been a while after they recorded this commentary. Yeah, yeah. The One Eye Bar Baby appears in a lot of the Maggie shorts because they're not a lot of other baby characters that are recognizable. And by the way, Gerald was named in the Canine Mutiny. Yes, right. Because Laddie rescues a baby Gerald. Laddie saved him.

You mentioned that commentary. It now feels extra loaded to me because they're working on the Simpsons movie deep in it. They're years away from its release, but they're deep into the Simpsons movie. and graining jokes like, you know, the plot of the movie is all based on the one eyebrow baby. And then Bill Oakley goes, hey! Now, I feel that hey is extra loaded. This is just my guess because Bill and Josh

were not invited to the high-paying gig of writing on The Simpsons movie. Very conspicuous to me. Yeah, it must have been some strange vibes in that room as a result. And yeah, I don't know why. You know, they are responsible for some of the greatest things in The Simpsons. I don't know.

I think internally, I mean, their seasons have been re-evaluated. by people who worked on the show in the passing years. But I think internally, their seasons reviewed as like, oh, we let these kids run the show, and they're doing all this weird stuff, and we've got to get back to basics after they leave. When they were recording this commentary, they were producing episodes that we've now just covered,

like the Snowball 2 episode, The Death of Snowball 2 episode, I Dobot, which ends with them shitting on Arm and Tamzerian episode in it. And so certainly the feeling internally is negative on the, At least that Bill and Josh episode. And of course, there was the intro to the DVD of that season where Matt Graining in the intro is like, and Armandansarian appears in one of my least favorite episodes. It's just like, it's funny because, you know, I've always been Mr. Principal and the Popper.

I do love that episode. So I'm fully on board. Yeah, I just want to go back to an era in which two 27-year-olds could run the Simpsons. Amazing, yes. Put it like that. You have to add those ages together to be the age of the person who gets to show run the Simpsons. And then add like eight years. it's BS that Bill and Josh

weren't invited. They were the only classic writers of esteem not invited back to the work on the movie, which was like to me, it reads like some people didn't want them to get a bunch of money for working on the movie. That is what it feels like, in my opinion.

And if that's untrue, someone can tell you that's untrue. And Josh worked with Graining on Comedy Central Futurama and Disenchantment and Bill worked on some disenchantment as well. So Graining is at least willing to work with them. It might be that scoundrel James L. Brooks. Ella McKay's own. Yes. Director of Ella McKay. In theaters soon?

Is it in theaters? Imagine the twist when that movie comes out and look at the credits. And Bill and Josh are credited as punch-up writers on that script. It's like that complicates the whole story we're inventing. True. Well, hey, speaking of things that get cut from stuff and babies, this is the biggest cut that I'm aware of from both that L.A. news story and from Josh sharing old pages, which is Maggie once spoke in the recorded draft of this.

I don't know if it was animated. There's no deleted scenes for this episode on the DVD, but everybody is sitting around right before baby Gerald shows up. Everybody's sitting around and they say like, when's Maggie going to talk? And then Maggie says, spaghetti. And Lisa and Marge are like, whoa, my God, Maggie just spoke.

And then the rest of the family goes like, what about spaghetti? What? Is there spaghetti here? Who cares? And the joke is that nobody else cares that Maggie just spoke. And they just ignore it. I would think it could be a greening rule of like, no, Maggie can't just toss off Maggie's second word if like it doesn't matter.

It's a good question. Yeah, I wonder. I mean, I suppose it also, she was saying it's in the recorded draft. It's not like a deleted scene that you can watch on the disc. It's just like a whole thing that was there. Yeah, I wonder, yeah. Your theory might be correct. Or it also could just be that it was a not a funny Burns joke.

So they had to make room. Right. That's true. Yeah. I mean, there's been a lot of episodes I haven't seen. So I'm not sure if Maggie has canonically talked. outside of The Daddy from Lisa's First Word? Or the slightly canonical sequel, she says at the end of the Simpsons movie.

Oh, sequel, right, right. I don't know. That feels like it's existing in another reality to me. Yeah, actually, you're right. They're watching the credits of their own movie, so that is non-canonical. It's funny they were having so much Simpsons movie talk, but had they brought any of the characters from the Simpsons movie into the show? Spider-Pig or Lisa's boyfriend or the great Albert Brooks villain?

Oh, Toby, how could you forget the name of Colin? Or the Albert Brooks villain. Russ Cargill, right? There we go, there we go. Thank you. There was a Harry Plopper Returns episode, yeah. Okay, good. I think they should do a Russ Cargill episode.

My thing is, you know, include everything. You've got to be omnivorous with this stuff. They should have Rainier Wolf Castle meet President Schwarzenegger in this world. That writes itself. Oh, you know what? I do remember another Maggie speaking in the recent season because I complained about it was that. They did that episode of everybody trapped on the airplane in the last season. And, like, Maggie gets separated from Marge, and so she becomes, like, the crying get baby on the plane.

And she, like, screams, Mama, and I was like, wait, somebody forgot that Maggie doesn't, you can't just toss off Maggie screaming Mama. It was very strange, I thought. Do the other Simpsons hear that mama and identify it as being from. I think Homer's, like, holding her in it, I think. Okay, okay. That's, like, that distinction. Yeah, okay. Yes, they cut spaghetti from it, and then we get Baby Gerald.

then comes a bunch of old people remedies discussed as Maggie starts to have, oh, wait, no, everybody, the family freakinging her out with the photographs. I love that shot. I should mention that. Yeah, apparently those are David Silverman drawings, and it feels like he is borrowing from the, it's all your fault. It's all your fault seen from Bart versus Thanksgiving because it's all the adult figures looming over Bart in this fantasy sequence. And that's where Maggie talks non-canonically voiced by Carol Kane. Uncredited Carol Kane, yeah, that's right. I believe so, yeah.

Especially Homer looking like a one-eyed monster, or sorry, one-eyed monster with the camera. That looks like just a pure David Silverman drawing right there. It also evokes like the scene with crevaple speaking in the Peanuts' voice in that other episode. That whole section is almost like drawn entirely by David Silverman in Homer's acid trip. But yeah, we're going to talk about a lot of old-timey remedies. For the previous time we covered this episode, I did look these up. But now I've looked them up again and I have a little more information about all the unguints. and ointments and galvanic belts.

Well, here, why do we give a listen to them trying to fix what ails Maggie? Put some listers carbolic unguint on a lot of cotton. Put the cotton in your ear. That'll stop them shakes. No, no. What she needs is a balsam specific. Balsam specific? Well, we're burning money.

Why don't we give her a curative galvanic belt, too? Don't forget to give her smekler's powder. Don't make fun. And yeah, this is also a bit from Marge gets a job because the B-plot in that, it's the boy who cried wolf thing, and grandpa's picking Bart up constantly and talking about all the home remedies, he should give him before he gives him the anal thermometer treatment. Right. He went to a bait shop for leeches. More of a bait shop. Yes. Okay, so Lister is carbolic unguint. So it's a kind of antiseptic because there's carbolic soap. So if something is carbolic, it is an antiseptic. So an unguent is kind of like a lotion or a cream you put on. And so a balsam specific. So balsam is tree sap, and a specific is another word for like a remedy or a cure. So it's essentially a cure made from balsam, which does have antiseptic properties.

And then the curative galvanic belt too, it's a belt worn to give you low-level electric shocks for energy and nervous conditions. They should not know about this because it's from the late 19th century, but it was also called the Pulvermockers Galvanic Chain. How? It sounds kind of like a predecessor to the rejuvenique face zapper thing. Yes, yes. Our friends at the Found Footage Festival have gotten a lot of material out of the face mass that electrocutes you. If you look up at Galvanic treatments online today, as I did, that is still a name for electronic face treatments at spas these days. The Pulvermocker? Look, this is just good because it means, you know, when you watch something like this, you know you're in good hands.

They're not just making up fake old-timey remedies. They did their research. And they did their research back in the early 90s, so you really got to respect it. Yeah, they're obsessed with old almanacs. that would provide information about all of these home remedies and weird cures that were, like, not essentially based in science. You know, I should have remembered this for a couple years later when I was a kid and watched Fargo, the film, to learn the term Unguint in there. I was like, oh, wait, yeah. Abe said Unguent before The Scary Monster Man said it in that movie. Wow. You reference Fargo, and I'm in Fargo right now. Kismet. It's like poetry. It rhymes. Well, we all know Fargo's more of a brainered movie.

Trueheads certainly do know. And, of course, we're right on the cusp of the new half-Cohen movie that just came out. Oh, that's right, yes. The second of the lesbian trilogy, right? We saw it? We liked it. Okay. I missed the first one.

I mean, I love all the actors in it. I want to see Aubrey Plaza and Margo Qualley Les out. I'm up for that. You were right the first time, Henry, it's Margaret Qualley. Damn it. I call her Lady Death Stranding. Also, balsams. You can buy those on Amazon as well.

You can still get them in essential oils and bombs and even some tempting candles. Maybe put in my cart to save for later. You're just going to smell like a big pancake house, Henry. Is that what it's? I don't know what balsam smells like. Well, if it's made out of tree sap, I'm guessing there could be like a syrupy nature to it. Even better. You're only selling it on me anymore.

This sounds like a Patreon episode where we go through all these one-by-one and do reviews. We could have Henry's candle corner every community podcast. What do you burn in these days, Henry? What's on the menu today? Right now I'm burning a Yankee McIntosh candle in the room right over there. Macintosh, so the apple. Yes, McIntosh. Wait, when did you become a candleman?

It was during lockdown. What a many lockdown brainworms are just like, well, I could start burning candles. Bob actually bought me a safe way to burn candles as well. I still use today, that soldering thing instead of... The USB lighter? Yes, yeah. Henry is not doing any soldering, by the way. Electric sparky thing, you know.

I bought Henry a blow torch. But it's also kind of a meat cute between Abe and Jackie here of them both knowing old man remedies. So you can see that Abe is a bit on the cheap side when it comes to these things. That's also a difference between the two of them. He's not thrown away money. Not a balsam specific.

It's Grandpa Simpson's last chance at romance. Oh, digity! I'm going to smooture like a mule eating an apple. And Marge's mom is the lucky lady. I'm in love. Oh, no, late, it's a stroke. The Simpsons. I'll be back in a jiffy.

It's Henry Gilbert, welcoming you to the break for this week's episode of Talking Simpsons. Big thank you to our guests this week, Toby Jones. Awesome to have him back. And don't forget that his new movie, AJ Goes to the Dog Park, is on all the digital platforms these days. And check out the cool music video he did for Rebecca Sugar's, closing theme for the film that he directed. It's really awesome to see all the cool stuff that Toby has been working on, and it's always awesome to talk a ton of bad animation with him.

Thanks again, Toby, for coming back on the show. And if you enjoy our podcast, you should know that it's only possible thanks to the listeners like you who sign up at patreon.com slash Talking Simpsons, because that is how me and Bob do this as our full-time jobs. If you signed up today at $5 a month, you'd get access to a ton of podcasts without any ads like this one on it. Plus, if you wish to hear us talk about Futurama and King of the Hill, we've been doing that for years on our Patreon, but only for those subscribers.

Sign up today, you get a new one each month of Talk King of the Hill and Talking Futurama, plus the entire back catalog, which isn't just King of the Hill and Futurama, but also the critic, Mission Hill, and many of our favorite episodes of Batman the animated series. All of that just for five bucks a month at patreon.com slash Talking Simpson.

If you want something as valuable as a cell drawn by Hick Heistler, then you're going to want to sign up at the premium level of patreon.com slash talking Simpsons because that is where we do our What a Cartoon movie podcast, where we go into animated feature films just as in depth as we do an episode of The Simpsons, often for five or six hours long animated feature film discussion that's basically like three extra podcasts you get each month. Last month, we just covered the Lego movie. and this month we're covering Wes Anderson's The Fantastic Mr. Fox. Two great films, and that's just the most recent ones we've done. We have done dozens of Disney animated feature films. We have done all the Pixar movies. We've done all the Beavis and Butthead movies. We've done multiple Batman movies and Spider-Man into the Spider-Verse.

Even junk like The Bee Movie and Cool World. You'll find it all there at patreon.com slash Talking Simpsons, along with all the other ad-free bonuses you get. So please, consider signing up at patreon.com slash Talking Simpsons. Simpsons today. And now we get a very sweet segment, which this does remind me of my family as well, which is like that with my mom's extended family, we can only really connect by talking about TV shows or commercials together.

We don't want to talk about. about personal things at all. And yes, the Armour Hot Dogs jingle, this dates back to 1967. It was part of the Weiner Wars because Oscar Meyer had a similarly catchy jingle from 1965. That's the I wish I was an Oscar Meyer weiner, that one.

And their second jingle, Oscar Meyer, it was the Bologna song. That's the My Bologna has a first name. It's O-S-C-A-R. And then that will be parodied in the Sherry Bobbins episode a little bit later. And I think Homer does sing it as well. These jingles are telling me that at this time,

time, hot dogs were specifically being marketed to children, and they were, I guess, considered a children's food, which suppose makes sense. But these are some great jingles, the Armour Hot Dog's jingles. I went down, you know, of course, I watched them all on YouTube, the ones that are on there. Great jingle, strange jingle. But, of course, at the time that this was airing, if you were my age watching it, you had no idea what the hell they were saying. I believe Armour went at defunct in 1983, although another company bought the brand, so you still see Armour products, other places, but they were able to use that jingle because the company longer existed and they were not essentially providing a free ad for armor.

And I think in the past, I did find a modern version of the armor hot dogs jingle from the 90s. I couldn't find it this time. But I do remember that it updates the fat kids and sissy kids lines to be a little more sensitive. It was funny when I tried to find like a history on the commercial to you that like when the first results was, for me at least on Google, was a blog of a guy saying PC thugs today would never let this go as we turn away from God's light. That was part of the guy's blog. Yeah, I mean, now when I watch commercials,

I'm always wondering, what do sissies eat? Yeah, exactly. There has to be room. Maybe they can be marketed to directly. That's a market. That's a target market. I like that it's Bart who sings sissy kids and his act out on it, too.

Like, that's what's fun. As they complained on the commentary, they never got a free thing of hot dogs from the then current armor team, which I should also mention, too, when I was a little kid younger than this episode, like five years earlier, armor hot dogs specifically were on my like safe food lists as a kid and I would eat them safe food what happened

it was just like even if my mom got other hot dog brands I would be like I don't like the taste of that and I would complain that she get specifically the armor brand as well what were you thrown on those dogs henry mustard ketchup relish what's going on these were plain hot dogs without breading on them were you dunking them in water or something no it was wait so these are hot dogs without breading so no bun is what you're saying no bun yes So you were raw dog in the dogs? I was raw dog in the dogs. I was going carb-free. I didn't realize that. You were on Atkins in like 1988. So, okay, I need to break this down. So you were anti-bun.

Were you dip in the dogs? No. This is incredible. I need to know more about this. Was there a fork in knife involved or were eating them with your hands? Great questions. I should say, by a few years later, I learned to enjoy hot dogs with the bun on them, though I was still having them as naked dogs, as I would call them.

This was when I started going to the varsity when we lived in the Atlanta area, which is a hot dog fast food place. It's like a historical site there. But so, can't tell you exactly when it happened. But when I was a little kid, like under seven, I must have seen some cartoons where hobos were eating sausages or hot dogs on like a pitchfork or like just on a fork. And so I told my mom like, I want that.

So I would, you know, stab the fork in the middle and eat the hot dog that way like the unhoused hobos did. Hey, you know what? If you're camping, you're doing that too, you don't have to be unhoused to enjoy a good toasted dog on the end of a set of tongs or whatever. Well, you said toasted, but Bob, were they toasted or were they microwaved? Were they boiled? How are you preparing these dogs? I believe these were microwaved.

I believe they were microwaved. If I were to taste the armor hot dog now, I would immediately be teleported back to specific. I believe my ritual was watching reruns of Gumbie cartoons in the afternoon, and my mom would make me two hot dogs and I would eat the armor hot dogs on a fork. and if I were to taste Armour Hot Dogs now I could probably just imagine Gumby, Pokey, and the rest fighting the blockheads while you did. Well, you left out prickling goo

and I'm pissed off. What the fuck, man? They're Latter Day characters. I think of them lesser than Pokey. The 60s character or the late 60s characters, yeah. I was a big Armour Hot Dog fan in my very picky child eating brain. Now I'll eat

all brands of hot dogs, so I'm very, very open and not picky at all in my food. Are they still naked dogs, Henry? Actually, is a joke I have not like I just went to a baseball game I didn't even eat a hot dog there like it actually is pretty rare I even have a hot dog anymore like I haven't bought hot dogs for myself in years and years would you go to like one of the like modern gastropub type places that dump all kinds of stuff on top of the hot dogs all right you know but when I go to this place I'd probably just get like fried chicken or a nacho plate or something like that like yeah you left them in the past you know as a kid too I never liked corn dogs and now I am a I do enjoy a corn dog here there. Mostly the Disneyland corn dog. I have to say actual hot dogs are so far away from real meat that the fake ones basically taste identical. I'm a real fan of the beyond broad. I got to recommend that to everybody out there, the beyond broad. If you don't want to kill an intelligent pig that loves you. I guess too, as I started to have more problems with beef, I was eating fewer hot dogs than too as well. I didn't need the widest kids you know sketch to make me know that seven hot dogs is too many. It is. I love the callback to that in weapons. It's not a spoiler, but very nice. That rule.

That got spoiled for me, well, it's not a spoiler. I saw a picture of it. I was like, oh, seven hot dogs. That's funny. This is a classic example of, like, I hadn't seen that sketch when I saw weapons. And so I saw it, and I was just like, seven hot dogs, that's a weird, funny detail.

And it's the perfect example of how you can Trojan horse in, like, an inside joke or a callback reference to something where it's like, in its own context, without even knowing, it's great in its own way. And then it gets enriched by your knowledge that there actually comes from something else. They really should have had Zach Craigor in the background of one seen as Lincoln. Yeah. Although actually, like, the thing is, like, I'm thinking about this is a weird comparison to make, but the way that that reference thing works with the hot dogs in weapons is kind of the way that Simpsons does references to movies and everything else, where it's like, if you're a child

watching these things, you don't know what they're referencing. It doesn't matter. It still works in its own context. Now, as a kid, I didn't know the Armor Hot Dogs jingle, and so when Barton Lisa sing it, it like flew over my head, but I did know the second jingle they sang. Oh, yeah. That's a schoolyard favorite, that jingle. It was a new jingle for us, Bob, do you do research on this brand? Oh, I did. I did a tiny bit. There's not much to say about chicken tonight, which is a reference completely lost to time. So this essentially was canned slop that you dumped on your cooked chicken, or you cooked the chicken with the slop. It's essentially just a kind of a pasta sauce that you would, to dress up your chicken.

And introduced in 1990, so it was a fairly new product. And if you watched a lot of television at the time, you saw the chicken tonight commercials, you heard the jingle, you saw everyone doing the chicken dance in the commercials constantly. And I guess this would still appear in grocery stores throughout the 90s, but it feels like it was phased out in America and sold in like the UK and New Zealand and Australia afterwards. So this like just left our shores before Y2K. My feeling upon watching all of these commercials and really enjoying the jingle and also noticing so many great looking flavors and how easy it seems to be to prepare that it must have just tasted like crap. And that's why it didn't like really, really catch on. because everything else about it sounds great, great jingle, great easy, easy cooking preparation, must have just been bad. But yeah, my mom was not above buying jarred sauce, pre-made sauces and things like that, but she never bought chicken a night.

So I trust her taste on this one. That's why it still keeps going in the UK because any flavored sauce was revolutionary in their country. I found like an old commercial from, by old I mean like a 10-year-old commercial from the UK of like a British guy saying, yeah, we all remember that commercial, don't we? that chicken dance, the 90s were crazy. I was like, wow. So this was a joke when this episode of Simpsons aired in the UK, British viewers actually did get this reference. It crossed the borders because the Atlantic

because they also had the chicken dance commercial and jingle. I mean, that's true. One of the commercials that I saw upon doing research was a specifically British version of the Chicken Tonight jingle, different logo, British people singing and dancing. And they were offering an Indian varietal, which I found to be unique. and I'm sure they were not offering that in the 90s in America,

but in the UK, you could. David Lister would love that. Absolutely, yes. Indian food banned in American grocery stores until 2015. And hey, you can learn all about David Lister and Indian food in our three-hour Red Dwarf podcast we did this year. Yeah, check out the what-a-cartoin feed. I'll let our editor drop in both the Bart and Lisa singing it

and the originals here. Hot dogs. Armour hot dogs. Sing it like you mean it. What kinds of kids eat armor hot dogs? Fat kids Skinny kids Kids who climb on rocks

Tough kids Dizzy kids Even kids with chicken pot Love hot dogs On our hot dogs Kids love to Binds Doesn't this family know any songs

That aren't commercials I feel like chicken tonight White chicken tonight White chicken tonight Hot dogs Armour Hot dogs What kind of kids eat armor hot dogs

Bad kids, skinny kids Kids who climb on love Have kids, busy kids Even kids with chicken pox love hot dogs Armour hot dogs Hot dogs Hot dogs Kids laugh to fight

Ragu introduces Chicken Tonight simmer sauces, and suddenly everybody's saying, I feel like chicken tonight, like chicken tonight, chicken tonight. Choose from four new sauces, each one's made with real vegetables and herbs, so you can make dishes like country French chicken and chicken cacciatore. Just brown the chicken, simmer, and serve. I feel like chicken tonight, like chicken tonight. New Chicken Tonight simmer sauces from Ragu. again i identify a lot with family members being unable to connect unless they're talking about old tv

last year an uncle of mine passed away and and we all had like a memorial together and mostly we just talked about the movies of his that we were going through in his collection of things and i have to say it was very eerie going through his collection and my mom saying oh you should take that DVD Henry and I had to go like, I have it on Blu-ray. I'm not going to downgrade mom. Very with him. It was one of those like, oh, my uncle bought all of the same things I did. This is weird. I feel strange now.

I mean, yeah, when you pass away, they'll be going through your things and it'll be back around where it's like, oh, I only have this on streaming. I must have this very important physical media. I have this on 16K. Holograms of the Cohn brothers come out and watch it with you. you. This doesn't have AI upscaling, weak. It was less commercials for my family, and it was more movie quotes. My mom would get really fixated on some certain movies, and I remember Austin Powers was a big one.

I just rewatched the first Austin Powers recently. I just remembered there was a two or three-year period where my mom would just quote it constantly. What quotes would she do? I don't remember any quotes from that movie. Can you name a couple? She particularly loved the scene in the second movie where Austin Powers drinks hot diarrhea. And she loved the quote. It's a bit nutty when he does. drinks the hot shit and doesn't realize what he's drinking. So she would do that after

sipping her coffee constantly for like three years. Look, I'm not above it. I still quote that. For me personally, you know, as someone who enjoyed Austin Powers when it came out and the sequels at the time very much, but fell into a very ironic love of Goldmember. Now the character Goldmember is the most quoted thing in my life because he's such a funny thing where he's like 15 different jokes that don't quite add up or make sense and don't relate to each other. For as rotten as that movie is, I like that the main joke behind Goldmember is that he's ill-defined. He just saying, I love gold. So the party ends, everybody's separating.

I think Bill and Josh were big fans of that Patty and Selma owned a surplus Army Jeep. Like, I think that was one of their lost script ideas too, right? That shows up in Bart versus Thanksgiving, this Jeep. And yeah, there's some lost Bill Oakley and Josh Weinstein script or pitch that was called Bart buys 200 Army Jeeps or something like that. As a board artist, I'm glad that they probably didn't do that storyline. As funny as it is on paper.

And I also just love Homer's hopefulness of like, if not then, Christmas, like that I felt that now. Speaking of relatives again, I'm like, maybe Christmas when when you're distant. That got a big laugh for me as a very truthful moment. This is where talk about them repeating jokes or making their own runners. Two episodes of Bill and Josh earlier, which we had Rebecca Sugar on to discuss. They basically killed Matlock and now they're back to their Matlock bashing. Well, Andy Griffith filmed a lot of Matlock Before people in Springfield killed him

So you're saying this was sitting in the back In the production schedule Oh, yeah It took a long time to put those Matlocks together It's funny, so they say like, oh, he's on in five minutes This is them again joking about how Matlock was their competitor Though this night, actually it was not up against Matlock Because Matlock was getting preempted for the week on ABC

By the Stephen King's The Stand miniseries, which I actually did watch I remember all of that, yeah That was a big event. Some of those TV movies, I remember, you watch the, you know, there was the Shining one, there was the stand, there was, of course, the Langalears. Peter Benchley's the Beast. Sometimes these TV movie things were huge events for young people like us. Guess the following week there'd be a two-part finale for the second to last season of Matlock called The Idol. A young lawyer who apes Ben's style is involved in blackmail and murder, says IMDB.

16.1 million viewers. I would happily, look, Matlock comes on nowadays. on Tubi and stuff and Pluto TV, and in our household, we will watch it. We've mentioned this before, but Matt Locke has ever been hotter because of the new Kathy Bates series, which she has said will be her final role, however long it lasts. That show has a very convoluted premise. But it is Kathy Bates doing a detective show, so, you know, it is very watchable. You can't just be a detective and old detective who solves crimes.

You've got to have extra layers on things in the streaming age, you know, and also produced probably half as many hours of TV in a year as the aging Andy Griffith did in this season the Matlock in 1994. What really shocks me about Matlock is I'm used to these very weak orders. Like, we have eight episodes this season, oh, or we have four. Well, Mattlock has 19. I love it. That's what it should be, because the thing is, this is what the audiences actually want.

They want to have a large amount of episodes to watch and have it be like a constant in their lives that they can build a relationship with. That's why suits suddenly became popular because it was a show that was quietly accumulating episodes for many, many years. and, you know, someone probably watched through all their shows and came across suits and it became their new best friend. The thing with the show like Matlock is like, like, I'm glad they're doing 19, but even a show like that is kind of bogged down by this need for like modern, like, storytelling and like arcs and stuff like that where it's like the thing with those old mystery shows were that they were all these one-off mysteries where you got a nice, fulfilling, delicious, full meal with each individual episode and then you want to have another meal right afterward. So it's, you know, two steps forward, one step back, I guess. But I'm very grateful to draw my old bang infinitely as I have. still work in the industry, which is just like, we need to get back to this thing. If you want to

have the next giant hit, you have to have actually a volume of episodes. We're in a volume business or we're supposed to be. And that was something that, of course, that the old school Cartoon Network, back when we were working in the building, knew pretty well, was that it is a volume business at a certain point. Yeah, even with a legacy show, like King of the Hill, there's only 10 episodes in the new season, and we love the new season. But because there's only 10, you can't focus on the side characters as much. You have to tell the stories of the core cast. and I feel like because King of the Hill had these 24 episode seasons, that's where we get the hilarious Dale episodes

or the very funny Bill episodes or exploring like Khan and his family, but they just can't do that right now. Yeah, shows need an opportunity to stretch their legs, and that's not something that's really being afforded nearly as much. Let's just say it'll change. Somehow, it'll just change, and things will just get better somehow. Let's just say, yeah.

I apologize to that Madlock reboot, thinking it had like a 10-episode order when it's at 19, which is like the equivalent of like a 36-episode season back in the 60s. Yeah, it's a hazy era. The Virgin eight-episode order versus the Chad, 19-episode order. Why, as they both leave with the idea of each Matlock could be our last, which is when Abe gets on, they set up the bus for later in the episode. It's like the Senior Trolley, it's called.

The Seniorville Trolley, which will later be a terminate in a graduate reference. This is where Marge starts reflecting on what she saw this at night. Mattluck to keep me company. Bonner. Hurry up, honey! Each matlock could be at last. Homie, you know, it's funny. Both my mother and your father seem pretty lonely.

That is funny. Yeah. Anyway, maybe they could go to a matinee together or shopping, or to that room in the library that's always full of old people, periodicals, that's it. Mard, please. Old people don't need companionship. They need to be isolated and studied

so it can be determined what nutrients they have that might be extracted for a personal use. Homer, would you please stop reading that Ross Parole pamphlet? Oh! Homer would just find that information on most social media sites now. Instead, he wouldn't need a pamphlet. It would just be shown to him when he logs in on Facebook. The specificity of it, though, incredibly funny.

It really got me. I also like that Homer when it just thinks it as a funny thing of like, yeah, they are very lowly. Yeah, that's great. The cruelty toward the elderly on The Simpsons is in full force here. Even though it's also a very sweet, heartfelt story, it's like the abject hostility toward the elderly never ceases to amuse me. They head over to, you know, we've seen the Springfield Retirement Castle many times, but for Abe to not be friendly with Jacqueline, then you need to have her be in a different one. So they have to think of of a second location for old people to live. Yeah, it's the Hal Roach Apartments, named after the famous producer of The Hour Gang and Laurel and Hardy Shorts.

He lived for 100 years. He died in 1992, born in 1892. So very long life for Hal Roach. Isn't there a subtitle on the sign being like it's in the heart of the cemetery district or something like that? Yes. You're not far from where you'll be buried. The Hal Roach joke is great because like in 92, he like appeared on the Tonight Show and the Oscars because it's like, yep, he's 100 and he's still like walking and talking. Look at that. It's Hal Roach. And then he was very much in the news as famous old man who died recently when they were writing this.

And this is where we have the opening clip I played, which is as for. far as one-off characters, both in design and voice, like, this is perfection. This is so great. Happy old woman is her name in the script. She's similar enough to Jackie. She's got the beehive. See, that's what's so great. It's not just that she's a lonely old woman that they won't even like look at as they roll up the window. It is that she is designed so great to be like Abe could mistake her for Jacqueline Bouvier, just in a rush. Yeah, the voice and the timing of the window going up. It's just like one of the funniest moments in this. entire episode. I remember just quoting it for no, there's not even a reason to quote that

scene, but I was a kid and I was still quoting that one because it was cracking me up so much. It works great when you imagine being left out of plans too and be like, can I come to? Although Cinemason's error, you may have noticed that they're using an electric window, even though you can clearly see a roller off to the side there. So hope somebody got fired for that blunder. It's way funnier with the electric window instead of someone having to crank the window. That sign is just like the robotic shutting out of the woman. is great. The silent cruelty of it.

Yeah. And this is where we go to the, I'll see if I can do it at one go here. P. Pigley, well, uh, nope. Pea Pigley Hawks wine super smorg, but don't edit that out in it here.

I messed up. I try. Observational joke, old people love buffets. Even though they'll eat basically nothing, they like the idea of plenty around them. To be eaten as slowly as you want. You're in the heartland of America right now, Toby.

What's the nearest buffet there, a golden corral? Is that still around? Gosh, that's a great question. There used to be one called the Royal Fork that we used to love to go to. I don't know that there even does exist a normal classic American buffet in North Dakota right now. We have a handful of Chinese buffets, which are always great. But I think, you know, buffets really were murdered from COVID for some reason. And I think that only now they're starting to kind of come back. I heard a friend told me that I guess Pizza Hut is starting to open up parlors again. There's like some possibility of that happening again. So I guess you really can come home again. But no, I I'm trying to think if there are any other, like, great buffets here in North Dakota. We've got like a ponderosa. I don't know if that even still exists, but, you know, certainly we are the central life of that. Yeah, in my neck of the woods growing up, we had old country buffet, which was a big chain.

And speaking of Pizza Hut reopening their eateries and everything like that, there is a Pizza Hut somewhat near us in Vancouver. And like for years, we were saying, we got to go into the Pizza Hut. We know we're going to be wasting one meal on Pizza Hut. But still, I want to have the dining room pizza Hut experience. About a month ago we head in and we see immediately to our left like the dining area is police taped off like murders have happened there and it is just a to-go only pizza hut. God, that's bleak. And we were just like going around peeking in the windows like, look, the atrium, there's still tables inside and instead of, you know, silverware being set out just a bunch of boxes with like tax forms in them. Well, look, maybe now they'll have some reason to reopen it.

And I was definitely thinking about old country buffet because, of course, there used to be an old country buffet in the Empire Center in Burbank. And the regular show crew and I, we used to go to various, we used to call it casual Fridays where we go to a lunch place that we would never normally go to. And my phone just served me up a photo of a trip in 2015 when all of us went to the old country buffet, had a terrible meal, great picture, a great company. And of course, that place, I believe, closed down in the early 2020s, sadly for someone who wants a bad meal eaten casually. Also, I love, talk about more perfect design. Love the pig, serving the pig. and they're both winking at you on the neon sign. Perfect.

I love that. And so, yes, there's, as, as they're describing the things, like, how they connect over a scam, there's another great little detail of, like, the little business, Abe is, like, putting peas into his spoon, but then when he's like, oh, it's not a swindle, he, like, indicates by putting his hand up, but the peas spoon, like, is in his hand, so all the peas fall out. It's a nice little visual joke that I'm wondering if, like, that was a little, West Archer touch or if that was in the script. Yeah, that feels like a Wes Archer touch to me, just something where it's like someone was

there drawing and they put extra love into it. It feels so alive in that moment. And then comes a lengthy scene of Abe imitating. While he does, he sticks his forks, two forks into some bread rolls, though I always read them as potatoes, but obviously they must be bread rolls for the reference and does a little dance. And yes, it is a reference to the Chaplin film The Gold Rush from the 20s, although when I was a kid, I was thinking, oh, this is a reference to the then recent.

and Benny and June, the Johnny Depp film. And here's the thing about Benny and June. Johnny Depp is neither Benny nor June. He is Sam. How did that happen? He steals the movie. He is a very charming actor. And when I watched as a kid, I don't think, I definitely didn't see 21 Jump Street.

I think it was the first time I had seen the actor Johnny Depp. And when I saw the movie, I, like, I saw the commercials and I got my mom to rent it for me before I could understand any of the, like, mental illness conversation of it or the romance. I was just like, this guy's funny with all of his silent, I didn't know he was ripping off silent comedy or imitating it well. Ripping off, are we in joke court again? No, no, you're right. He's just reenacting classic silent comedy bits. That's what he's doing.

Yeah. I first saw Johnny Depp in Edward Sissorhan. Oh, yeah, you know what I didn't see that. He was unrecognizable in that film. You're right. I must have seen that before I got my mom to rent me Benny in June. So if Johnny Depp is ripping off Chaplin, then we're ripping off the great Adam Carolla who created podcasts.

That's true. where does that put us? We owe it all to him. So as a kid, in my head, I was like, oh, this must be a Benny and June reference. And then to try to untangle him, I actually did ask Josh Weinstein about this, what it was a reference to if it was only the gold rush, the 1925 Charlie Chaplin film. And this is what he said. The Charlie Chaplin reference in Lady Bovier's lover is just that. Grandpa remembered it from seeing the gold rush. He would have no idea what a Benny and June was. I think we were aware it was in that movie, but in our Simpson's script, it was a direct reference to the old-timey silent films, just like his

Goodnight Mrs. Bouvier, wherever you are, was a reference to Jimmy Durante. We much preferred old-timey references to current references. Of course. And again, this is another example of a reference that if you don't get it, fully explains itself. You know, you don't really need to have seen the gold rush to find this funny. You get to see Abe Simpson do something funny, and then it gets explained to you that it was a reference and what it was referenced to and how. It's all built in. Like, it comes with instructions. It's great. And, Yeah, I didn't end up seeing the Gold Rush until college, you know, when I was in film school. And, hey, it's a great movie.

I just rewatch that scene. And the animators, the way they drew, Abe especially, like, bending his head down the way the chaplain does during the dance. I was like, wow, they really captured it while still drawing Abe Simpson's very specifically detailed face. Yeah, that's an odd perspective on a Simpsons head, especially Abe's. It's so funny to look at, though. It is one of those just, like, immortal drawings. After the date is over, he's headed back home. Lady Bouvier. This is where Abe

comes to a realization, looking over some photographs. And here's a picture of me getting arrested for indecent exposure. It was the most embarrassing day of my life. Lamp those gams! You were one nifty

number. The boys all paid attention to me, and it drove my friends crazy. Oh, who were your friends? Oh, Zelda Fitzgerald, Francis Farmer, and little Sylvia Plath. You remind me of a poem I can't remember, and a song that may never have existed in a place I'm not sure I've ever been to. You're so sweet.

I feel all funny. I'm in love. No, wait, it's a stroke. No, wait, it is love. I'm in love. I guess originally, I'm not sure if they animated it or recorded it. The I'm in love would continue to, I'm in Virginia, and then I'm in jail. The gurney kept rolling and rolling, right?

It's nice that this implies that Jackie Bouvier is the reason why these three famous women are now dead, or why they died young, at least. And had tons of mental illness issues. Like, literally, it would drive my friends crazy. Again, flew right over my head that she's naming. women who all had went crazy. Yeah, so just to really recap this quickly. So Zelda Fitzgerald, the author F. Scott Fitzgerald's wife, the namesake of the

video game Zelda, that's the reason why the legend of Zelda is called as such. She likely had bipolar disorder and she died in a hospital fire, probably while waiting for electroshock treatment. Francis Farmer was an actress and TV host who was diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia and died of cancer eventually. And then Sylvia Plath, poet and writer suffered from serious depression and took her own life by sticking her head in a gas oven. And it was all because of Jackie Bouvier.

And I love the photo of her being arrested with her very modest clothing. All the other women on the beach are wearing like full fur coats. Yes. It's a very nice little detail. So funny. It's great. Again, this makes, with the sliding timeline, this would make both of the characters like 130 today. Pretty much.

The fear of having a stroke, too, is just like, oh, is this a stroke? Like, the older I get, the more I'm like, oh, boy, I guess. I'm worried of this now. That's very concerning. The scene where Abe gets pushed out of the ambulance, that could not be staged in a funnier way. And again, as someone who works as a board artist, it's like, this is also not staged easily. It was done in a, it's very, very complex way that that was put together, but it's for

maximum laughs where it's just like, because of how complicated it is that we watch the thing in perspective fly back onto the on ramp and it's a crowded road. It's like, it's worth the effort, I will say. So now it's time for the. B-plot, and before we dig into it, why don't we just hear the clip, explaining what Barts up to this week. Hello, I'm Troy McClure. You might remember me from such films as The Boat Jacking of Super Ship 79 and Hydro, the

man with the hydraulic arms. Coming up this hour on the Impulse Buying Network, your chance to own a piece of itchy and scratchy, the Toon Town Toosome beloved by everyone, even cynical members of Generation X. Yeah, groovy. to offer your viewers these hand-drawn, itchy and scratchy animation cells. Each one is absolutely, positively 100% guaranteed to increase in value. Not a guaranteed.

Ooh. Pardon me, sir. Forgive my clumsiness. Not at all. Yes, my name is Homer Simpson, and I'd like to order an itching, and scratchy cell? My credit card? Do you accept the federal breast inspectors card? Licensed to Ogle? Biza?

Oh, yes, of course. That's what I meant. Visa. It's these new dangers. Bart teaching kids how to steal their parents' credit cards. A useful skill for all the youth. Now, out of all characters ever depicted on The Simpsons, I am most visually similar to the cynical member of Generation X.

He wanted to grow up to be this guy. Yeah, straight out of Homer Palooza. And man, Homer, for some reason, Homer stealing Bart's slings really, really got me. The fact that he has the exact same scheme going on to steal of all things, the slingshot really, really cracked me up. It feels like a sequel joke to the

How Do You Do Sir? Seeing from the previous episode of Broadcastle. And this is the second of three fake Roger Myers-Juniors because we have him played by Alex Rocco in Itchy and Scratchy and Marge. Then he's in the front. He is in this and he is in Itchy and Scratchy Land before Bill and Josh bring Alex Rocko back

for the day the violence died. and itchy and Scratchy and Poochee. When Bill and Josh got put in charge, they decided it was worth the effort to get Alex Rocco back. Though I still wonder if Alex Rocco partially was absent from the Simpsons because he had a Gracie produced television show

that didn't do well, and maybe it just made him like not want to act on Simpsons for a little bit. Is that Sibs? It was Sibbs, yes. Yeah. Coming soon to Talking Simpsons, we're going to do a Sibbs, I think. Is that true?

We ought to. I think so. I think you definitely should. one written by like Jay Cogan and Wally Warradosky or something Yeah and Sam Simon was executive producer on the show When him and Mac Rainey could no longer coexist I believe that's where he was transferred over to

Until at the end of season four Is when his contract just is over entirely with Gracie And he goes to start developing a George Carlin TV show And George Carlin also not a fan of working with Sam Simon either Now the animation cell Oh go ahead Toby And I'm sure it won't be long as well Before you do a podcast on the

Wally Wollardarski movie, seeing other people from the early 2000s. I'm more of a sorority boys guy, but we'll cover both. We'll cover both. The cell conversation, I think this is around the time when people were first learning what animation cells were, and there was a collector's market forming around the idea of owning a piece of animation. And it's funny because the commentary is recorded like 21 years ago. And Bill Oakley was complaining on the commentary how, oh, Fox charged us $100 each for these

animation cells, and it was great to own them, but now they're worth nothing. They're not even worth like 50 bucks on eBay. And in the 20 years that have passed, that has changed greatly. And now Henry has some Simpson sells, and I'm sure he'll talk about them on this podcast. And I eventually want to own one, go in on one with my wife. But every time we look at them, we also think the price of a good sell is also the price of an international flight. And we also want to go on like vacations and stuff. So it's kind of a hard sell.

Maybe when we settle down and there's less moving around, we can stare at like Mr. Burns getting shot on our wall or something. but we keep delaying the purchase of a Simpson's cell. Yes, it's funny to hear Oakley on it even say like, and he means the real cells that come with like the Fox, the 20th century Fox stamp on the back and like, you know, certificate of authenticity, which are with the cells I own as well. Though now I would not advocate for buying Simpson cells on eBay these days

because I, not, there are real ones on there, but you can't truly be sure buying them from specific places that sell them. you're better off on the authenticity side, I'd say. Yeah, I guess Heritage Auctions is a good site. Although on eBay, thanks to a listener, I got a very, very nice Duckman cell for not a lot of money. And I never ever see Duckman cells on eBay. So it's like the entire family and I need to get a frame. But I have a few cells like, Henry, you bought me like a Beavis and Buthead cell and I ran

and Stimpy cell. I have a sell from the anime series Slayers. But to date, I still need to like put them somewhere and put them up on a wall. It's funny you mention Heritage Oxens because I actually. just had my first ever experience with heritage auctions. I had a notification set for a robot Jones cells. And the other last weekend, they had a, I didn't realize how, have you used this site before? Have you, have you tried it? I've bought a few cells on there. Yes. Well, I didn't realize that the way it works is so strange where it's a literal auction with like a robot running this like real

life auction that happens. So it's not like eBay. You put in the bid and then there's like a real thing that occurs. And so I hopped on and I saw this waiting for my robot Jones cell to go through. And I saw that they were going through a lot of like hundreds of animation piece of animation ephemera, a bunch of like model sheets and story wards from like Brand Spake and New Doug. They had one from, oh my God, what does that jumbo pictures show, Sportsbender? I think it's called. They had a bunch of materials from Sportsbender. They had a bunch of cells from like the Rocco's modern life pilot where he's yellow.

And I was just like baffled looking at all this stuff and thinking about going in on some. But I did eventually get one Robot Jones cell, which shipped recently. I'll be looking forward to seeing it soon. I'm glad you mentioned that I did put in a bid on one of those Doug cells from, of course, real Doug from Nickelodeon, not this brand spanking new crap, but it was a sell for when Doug has all of the math problems circling around his head when he realizes Skeeter is smart and he's like screaming and I was like, oh wow, Doug having an anxiety attack is like, that's purest Doug to me.

But I was like, I will not pay more than $75 for this. And it went over that and I did not buy it. So that's kind of my interaction with heritage is as of like, well, okay, I'll put in my bid of what the maximum I think I'll pay for this. And then almost always it goes way over that. Yes. It's for true enthusiasts, you know. But I've stumbled upon other cells in my life. I've got, you know, I actually did get ripped off. I got a golden boy cell, which is a great painted drawing of Kintaro on his bike. And I didn't realize until too late that it includes a BG that is completely fake and from some other show. Oh. So it's one of those. But it is a nice little,

just a small actual Kintaro at the very least. And Maddie, as a gift, got me a Selly Crickshank cell, which is really, really cool to have. And I got her a peanut cell at one point. So we've got a few around. And, of course, I've got a good number of layouts from OKCO. Of course, the show was painted digitally, so we don't have cells, but I have a lot of layouts.

They mailed us like a couple dozen boxes of them. And one day, Ian and I just hunkered down and went through all the boxes and took what we could. Nice. I would say, I can't guarantee it like Alex Rockos, or not Alex Rocko's, George Meyer says. But I do think there's no more cells produced anymore. I do think at the very least Simpson cells do increase in value. I have gone from seeing. So the one I showed you guys my cells that I have hung up before we started recording. And the one of grandpa selling the

Simpson and Son Tonic, that one I bought on the Fox lot like the writers did when we went to our table read in 2019. And now six years later, like I paid, I think with tax 700 for that, that would, You are very lucky to get a classic Aera Simpson cell for under $1,000 on Heritage Auctions these days. And do come, we started on Evangelion cells. Oh, boy. Man, yes. Yeah. I seriously was like, I'll go to a thousand.

I'll do it for this. Watch it go to like $2,000, $3,000. You know, it's funny because I remember going to Comic Con. You know, my first couple trips to Comic Con when I was there for like regular show, going to like the cell area and like combing through the cells. And I bet I saw some stuff there. that if I bought it then would have really really like a lot of stuff from classic anime there's stuff from like cowboy bebop and it's just like I can only imagine like at the time I was like I could never spend this much but I'm sure it's probably tripled quadruity value since yeah I'm kind of kicking myself because I was making minimum wage in the early aughts because I was very young and we went to odicon in 2001 I told the stories on the slayers podcast but that's where I bought a $15 slayer sell and I was seeing like oh a very nice cowboy bebop sell $50 well I'm not so sure about this and I really could have just spent a hundred dollars and had like, I don't know, $10,000 worth of cells today, but I just have my one cell of Lena inverse running, which I'm guessing is now worth like two to $300 just

because these, these items are designed to rot away, to be thrown away, to be washed and reused. There's a finite resource when it comes to cells. So their appreciation does make sense to me. My husband bought me eight years ago a pricey cowboy bebop sell from the first episode of him hiding the hot dog in his mouth. That sounds like a euphemism, if you haven't seen. the show of Spike, and I would bet it's worth at least double whatever my husband paid for

it now. I still am on the lookout for Simpson's cells, including, I mean, any cell of this episode with this cell in it is my white whale. And I have missed it several times because I was not willing to max out a credit card on them because there weren't, obviously, these are the cells that the fans want the most, a cell of a cell, of course. Yeah. Apparently, Wes Archer has a sell of Bart bringing the cell to the Android's dungeon? Actually, he no longer does, Bob. That's what's crazy. Okay, this gets ahead of it. When

on the commentary, West Archer says, I have a sell of this of him saying this cell is worthless. And David Merkin says, oh, that's funny because it's worth $5,000 now, because they're joking that it is, they're like, yeah, it's not worth $5,000. Two years ago, 2023,

Wes Archer himself from his collection, it is labeled on Heritage Auctions from the West Archer collection. Is that sell being sold. And it sells for $5,500. David Merkin was lowballing it, I guess. Yes. Yeah, it's crazy. Let's Archer selling off, sold off a bunch of its cells. I believe one of these is also from his collection of cells he was selling. But to know, a lot of this heritage auction stuff, I think, is coming from the private collections of these industry luminaries. I was definitely looking through like this huge lot of stuff that was being sold when I got my robot Jones one.

And I was like, I wonder how much of this comes from Brian Miller personally. Definitely in a big collection of like Evangelion and Acuracels were like from the Peter Chung collection I remember seeing too like Peter Chung was selling a bunch of these My old co-worker Peter Chung I mentioned because he was working on Victor and Valentino

as an animation director and we were up there on the 10th floor Wow but so yes we're all sell sickos out there or would be on one of our recordings I gifted Toby and Ian It's true A very affordable Sonic the Headchog

Yes And I believe am I wrong street charge? Oh, I think there, maybe there was a streetcharks. I think the street charts one was for Ian. If I'm, it's on the podcast. It's probably on that podcast. What a glorious time. What a glorious gift.

That's where the sell market is these days. So it's mainly the ones from OKKO. Do you have any ones from the regular show, premier work on that? No, I've never actually even seen what the layouts look like on regular show. I don't know because the way it works is like you, well, firstly, if you go and visit, you obviously can see them being made and being worked on. And then with CAO, we never saw the layouts until this is well after the show was done. They were like, oh, they're going to get rid of them, basically, at the animation studio, do you want any?

And so we were like, yes, send as many as you can. And then we gave them a list of episodes that we wanted them from. And then, as I said, they just like set up a room and they had 50 boxes or whatever for Ian and I to comb through of just all these layouts from the episodes we chose. And I think everything else probably was destroyed. And that's what it is, because if you visit these studios, I have not done. been, but any of my co-workers who've gone have said that, like, there are whole corners of them that are just, like, boxes of episodes of all the shows that they've worked on. And eventually, they've got to get rid of that stuff.

That's how you end up with it. But I've never seen what the regular show layouts look like. So I don't know what kind of pencil they were using, for example. Of course, I've seen ones from Stephen, which Rebecca has posted about on some recent, like, videos, like going through them. And so that's a lot like what the CO layouts look like. And I've got a few of those framed on my wall at home. So after this, we go to the dinner table.

and this is where Homer, Homer is opposed, damn, damn opposed to it, while Marry is happy and... Oh, speaking of resurrecting old bits, this is similar to Bart being obsessed with hearing swear words in the wild and repeating them. This is a very old Bart thing. You're right, man, they're the ones keeping these things alive here. Like, oh, Bart learned the word damn, like, damn, damn opposed.

Bastard, bastard, bastard, bastard. Feels like Wes Archer is getting practiced for the design sensibilities he'll bring the King of the Hill when Homer imagines the freak children of imbred family he would have. I thought the exact same thing. And also, I got to say, to go back to Tales of the DVD, when I was revisiting all of these episodes on DVD, when that joke hit, I had completely forgotten about it,

and I lost my mind. There's so many jokes in these episodes, and also some of them get cut for syndication. And so you'll get surprised by stuff when you watch them on DVD, and I just could not believe how funny those drawings were. And it is not that different from King of the Hill, yeah. Actually, I guess Bart, especially looks like he'd be related

to Boomhauer, I would say. They look kind of like they might be critic characters if they change a little bit. Yeah, I could see that too, yeah. Yeah. And then we have a very funny bit of Marge trying to make a phone call to set up a day.

Gotta go! Like, Dan and Julie, so funny here. Tell her I love her. This is when Bart gets a special delivery from several people. This is another just great scene of just the child being punched in the face, really. Yeah, and the nose, which

It makes it extra painful. It's sucked. I don't have the whole thing, but it's a very long scene, but it's first a guy, a mobster type, though not a fat Tony related one, just a representative of Mr. Sinatra, punching part. Then we get a squeaky-voiced character who's not officially squeaky voice teen. It wouldn't make the wiki anyway. I could stop thinking about what kind of letters were being sent from Homer to Mr. Sinatra. I don't know.

It's not explained. It's left for your imagination. This is where he gets a third one that part. The way the delivery of this last guy is so, so funny in our next clip. Homer Simpson, I've got a special delivery for you. Go away. You do not open the door, Mr. Simpson. I cannot give you your special delivery.

He's your special delivery. Thanks. That's for keeping me waiting. Hey Lease, guess who's got a genuine itgy and scratchy animation cell? Oh, that is so cool! That is so exciting! That is so... ...crapy. It looks like part of Scratchy's arm. Oh, no. I use Dad's credit card to buy this. Yeesh. How much was it? $350.

Ooh. Ooh. Oh my god, this boy is having an out-of-body experience. This is very bad for business. And you know, it's good that they trusted the audience to know how cells work and how you could possibly get just an arm of a character. And then also rolling them is a bad way to ship them as well. That's true.

But yeah, it's educational. Like, when I watched it as a kid, it's like, I didn't really get it. But it's like you kind of learn from watching it. Like, oh, yeah, you could get just an arm because of limited animation. I've also gotten a cell delivered. that was completely flat, but the FedEx delivery person decided, I'll put it on the side of the building.

People will find it eventually. Fortunately, it was packed properly that the wetness of the outside cardboard did not touch the inside the cell. So it was okay. But this was on a cheaper anime cell anyway. But yes, the delay on him saying, your special delivery,

he means he's going to punch him. And he punches him so hard that his skin changes color in between shots, too. That is true. Yes. Yeah, it's just, it's one of those sheets where it's like, well, there's no reason she should be saying the line like this. It's just to set up the making Bart suspicious. And this may be the best ha-ha of all time.

It might be. Like, the way it's set up is like at first you feel like Bart is imagining the ha-ha. But instead, it actually is a psychic projection from Nelson as he is having like an episode from drinking a squishy. They're one-uping the earlier joke in this season where Nelson calls Bart to say ha-ha after they find out. he has a stamp collection. I mean, it has to be maybe the single most creative way of doing one possible. Like, you can't get more, like, abstract and more of, like, a joke about the joke, about the joke than this.

And also Nancy Cartwright's delivery of just him in kind of a trance-like state, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, so good, too. Then we have a very silly little scene that's in the script, but that Archer credits David Silverman for really figuring out the visual development of this little musical sequence here. Yeah, the whole play it cool sequence, although I learned new information about this at our live show because Bill Oakley answered a question about this. And people wanted to know, somebody in the audience wanted to know, like, where did this come from?

And Bill Oakley said, it's on the recording. I'm just paraphrasing here. But he said, oh, we wanted to do a UPA thing, but it didn't really turn out the way we wanted. So I guess they wanted to push the designs way further, but really only the backgrounds get pushed to the UPA style. That would have been cool. Thank you for remembering that, Bob. We've done so many with Bill. I had forgotten that detail he gave us on the play at Cool Sequence.

What I love about it in design is that like, you think Homer is going to list multiple things, but it's just one thing and they repeat it back to each other. And the end. His patented move, which I think he just saw on the Brady Bunch. Also, that one of those funny things where the seasons rhyme as we're covering them back to back, like in the way we weren't that we did a couple weeks ago on the podcast, a Homer also discovers his arm.

move in the flashback when he has his first kiss with Marge. The sequence is really, really interesting. It's not one that people ever talk about as being like a memorable or classic scene, the play at cool part. It completely surprised me when I rewatch the episode. I didn't even remember it. But you got to appreciate it. You just got to appreciate their dedicating time to just this weird joke that doesn't, like,

it's not as easy to understand. And they're just like, I don't know, they're just having fun. I appreciate it. Oh, and also speaking of how the Bill and Jess scripts are echoing each other in Lisa versus Malibu, Stacey, Homer and Abe also share a, like, conversation on the couch posed in a similar way. But also, like, my chances for love will slightly improve. We cut first to Abe going to his date, and did the Simpsons predict the resurgence of

swing dance? You know what? It's possible. Swingers was, what, 95, 96? It's like a year or two after this. My first guess would have been 96, but now you said 95, maybe that. It's 96. And, Hunter, you have a computer.

in front of you. Ah, right? If you did this episode of 96, that they would have cut to the squirrel nut zippers performing that time. The Mighty Bustones, were they swinging around? Oh, they're more SCA, really. I see. I went to a few swing nights that were happening far too late in my hometown.

It was like 2006. Really? Yeah, and SCA was being played at them. Fascinating. I didn't, you know, maybe there's a lot of swings got a crossover. Was the vibe at that swing night pretty similar to that Darya episode where everybody there is like a total poser? Everybody was very dressed up.

It was a case of showing up to it very drunk with a friend and doing our own mockery version of swing dancing and then realizing we weren't welcome. Wouldn't it be funny if we went to the swing night? I count the return of swing dance with that Gap commercial. That's when I think it really came back. But before we get to that, this feels like it was built in the edit

that this is where the next scene would happen with Bard and Comic Book Guy because it's like the camera like kind of pans over to them. I feel like it wasn't done in animation that it was just in the edit. It's an interesting move in which we see the establishing shot of the swing dance, but then we move to another establishing shot of the next scene. It's odd to me.

Yeah, see what you mean. Yeah. Maybe it was kind of put together at the edit or is one of those. Sometimes there's a thing where like a scene is supposed to be one cut, but then it accidentally gets labeled as two cuts, and so you get it as two scenes instead of one. It could have been one of those situations too. And this is where comic book guy explains the economy of cells.

Is this cell worth anything? Let me show you something. This, this is a snagglepooth drawn by Higg Heisler. It is worth something. This, this is an arm drawn by nobody. It is worth nothing. Can't you give me anything for it? I can give you this telephone.

It is shaped like Mary Worth. No groaning in my store. You know, when I listen to that really closely, it sounds like he's doing season two comic book guy. It's like he regressed. Yeah. Maybe they came in and they had like a clip to reference. for instance, and it was an extra old clip that they pulled or something.

I feel like comic book I spoke earlier in this season and didn't sound as much like, that's more of like, you my stew. It's the sadder, less energetic comic book. But Hig Heisler, not a real person, though it sounds like someone who would be working at Hannah Barbera in the 60s. Really? I just assumed it was a real person. Not a real person, although we might get, I can't believe he didn't mention comment about this, but Josh Weinstein did work it into an episode of Disenchantment at some point.

So Higg Heisler lives on. I did pull up a random episode on IMDB of the Yogi Bear Show to try to find similarly weird names in it from the 60s. That includes Hicks Low Key, Harry Holt and Vollis Jones. Hicks Low Key, the most close I'd say. I'm just thinking of he's a guy who did a lot of Hanna-Barberia music. His name is Hoyt Curtin. I was about to also mention Hoyt Curtin.

That's exactly who I kind of associate that with, yes. It's a similar name. We last talked about this episode about eight years ago, but unfortunately, Mary Worth is still being published. It's been going on since 1938, currently on its third writer and sixth set of artists. There's a team of artists

working on Mary Worth right now. This is a rare cultural reference to, that's what's so interesting about Mary Worth, is that it remains in our newspapers to this day, but it rarely even gets referenced. Like, it's a pretty big deal

that it has such a major prominent position in this Simpsons episode. And also keep in mind, in this episode, it is a three-dimensional phone object of Mary Worth that they're carrying around,

which means they had to interpret the design of Mary Worth in that way, which I was pretty impressed by. Looking on eBay, I could not find any proof that Mary Worth was ever merchandised beyond comic books. There were some comic books that collected Mary Worth storylines or even some original Mary Worth comic books in like the 60s or 50s. But there was never any right now, whatever syndicate owns Mary Worth is selling like, you know, print to order Mary Worth like mugs.

So you can't buy one now, but nothing. even close to a Mary Worth phone where she will judge you, where it can give you a stern, stern talking to as she does in so many classic Mary Worth comics. Look, I'm just saying, you know, in this current IP driven world, a lot of us in the animation industry do spend our time just sitting back, just talking about what's an IP I can pitch on, what's something I can come up with a funny take on? And Mary Worth has come up.

It's like, could we actually try to do something with Mary Worth and cut to five years from now when I'm shilling my new Mary Worth show that's coming out on. Paramount Plus. Margo Robbie is Mary Worth. I was not expecting that. Yeah, it's one of these newspaper comics that I don't know who's reading them. They've been around for a very long time, but they tell a very long story, two panels at a time. And a lot of that has to involve a recap every day of what happened yesterday.

It's like molasses. Go ahead. Absolutely. But the thing is you're describing is true. I remember it was maybe 15 years ago, Maddie and I, we decided one day, let's just start reading Mary Worth. Let's just try it. I'm sure we've all tried it.

And I believe Maddie has been reading Mary Worth ever since. Also, interpret it through the comics curmudgeon is also a very good way to read Mary Worth. That style of dramatic comic, they couldn't even get me to read those when Spider-Man was in them. Like, that's the same format as the Spider-Man comic strip. So Mary Worth is not going to get me to do it. Will Mary Worth make it to 100 years? Can she go another like 13 to make it to 2038? I think it'll happen.

I pray it'll happen. And then, of course, this moment brings in Snobank. Snagelpus into the Simpsons universe, which is a character that I've had the privilege, the esteemed privilege of drawing and writing for on Jellystone. And he's voiced by the Master Shake Voice actor as well, right? Yeah, Dana Snyder does a lot of great characters in that show. Sadly, my favorite bit with Snagelpuss that I wrote in Jellystone got cut for time. There was a scene in the episode Spy Thriller where Snagelpuss and Huckleberry Hound kind of

walk away from the action. And I wrote this little aside where they're talking about therapy. And they're just like talking about therapy. And one of them's like, oh, it's so hard to get a good therapist in network. They fall off a cliff or something. Sadly got cut for time. So we still have some good snagglepuss moments in some of my episodes. Rarely enough, we had a snagglepuss ref right before this in the show where Ralph saw him outside going to the bathroom.

So the back half of season five is very snaglpuss heavy. Right. But then after that, no mention of snaglpuss ever again on The Simpsons. Those are both Bill and Josh back to back. Another self-callback, perhaps. I got to say that I relate to this. When you're working on a TV show and you find things that work, you're going to run those into the ground because they work.

If you come up with stuff that gets through and everyone likes it, like, yeah, that's a button you can press over and over again. I wonder if now, you know, all these 30 years later, can comic book guy sell this one arm of Scratchy for much more money and it's not so worthless after all? I wonder. That would be a good storyline. Well, I wonder how much a single arm from The Simpsons would go for.

I've seen just the, like, layout pages or storyboards for classic epistem. episodes. I've seen those selling for like $400, $500 on. I want to say the comic mint or similar names are authorized sellers of the real deal. So we cut back to the dates and this is where we see them having a nice Abe and Jacqueline having a nice little dance. And I love how Abe is just concerned. He's like, I really can't. He really can't remember. Nobody cares about this, but Red Bean and his band of some esteem is a reference to Les Brown and his Band of Renown, which was a big band combo that existed for like 60 years. That does just sound like a Bill and Josh joke already.

And what they're playing, Glenn Miller's Moonlight Serenade, right? Yes. Now, here's the thing, folks. I don't need to give you a reason to play Bayonetta 3. It's an amazing game. It was my game of the year. The year it came out, I think, 2022. But that game, Moonlight Saturnate is the main theme in Bayonetta 3, and you'll hear

a million remixes of it. And if you sit through the credits, they did license the Frank Sinatra cover from the 60s. They shelled out for that. Take that Netflix, drawing a connection to the Fly Me to the Moon, snafu. But there won't be a Baynetta 4 because they've already used all the good moon songs. The first game was Fly Me to the Moon. The second game was Moon River. Third game, Moonlight Serenade.

Is there another moon song of that era? Well, there's the Phoebe Bridgers moon song, of course. We could just go with that for Baynet. It worked perfectly. I'm still impressed that they even had the budget for that by the third one. The Nintendo or whoever shelled out for like music licensing, as for Toby has learned many times, has only gotten more expensive the years gone on. Yeah. That is 100% true. I mean, the Netflix version of Evangelion, they could not afford to

play Fly Me to the Moon once. And the entire point of that show, at least in my opinion, is to give you 26 Fly Me to the Moon remixes at the end of the series. Yeah, that's that, well, I wonder if it's a combination of the fact that it was like the licensing of it was the original song. And then I bet that these versions also have gotten more expensive because they've probably individually become popular from being in Evangelion. So maybe there's like an extra layer to it where it's like, I can't say for sure. That said, Netflix has an obscene amount of money, and they should have done that, and it's a bummer.

Yes, we can get one fewer Dave Chappelle comedy special if we can just reinstall the Fly Me to the Moon remixes into Evangelion. But just one. Just one. I respect this point of view. I can't wait to hear the next time. This is where Abe suffers quite, well, it's sad enough to be cucked, but to be cucked by a member of your tauntine, that's even worse.

Oh, yeah. They go back that far. In our next clip, Burns mussels his way into the story. Oh, my favorite song. This is so nice. I can't remember when I felt this young. Oh, I really can't. See, sport.

Mind if I have the next dance. What the? Don't sneak up on it. Oh, you. No need for the blown gasket, Charlie. I'll have it back in one piece. And yes, Burns is dancing along to sing with a swing. It was written by Louis Prima in 1936. That version had lyrics, although the Benny Goodman instrumental version seems to be the more popular one, which is what's being played here. It's kind of the swing song, as far as

I'm concerned, as someone who knows absolutely nothing about swing music. It's been in a ton of commercials and movies and stuff, so it could be the one swing song you've heard. I feel like it was in that it was the Gap Kacky's commercial wasn't it? That's the That's why I imagine those The swing

A Gap commercial was playing there I was too focused on that dog You all remember magic Listeners if you remember magic Leave a comment And Burns moves in a way He never moves ever again They make a great point of it

Like oh yeah Burns has never Let's just say that he had been freshly given all of those treatments That make him glow green That's what I wrote that He just got his Springfield Files treatment and he wandered out of the forest. Because even like later in the episode,

they're making jokes about his body being creaking and breaking and not working because he's old. But it's like, hey, this is what they call the rubber band logic, you know? It's just like whatever works for the moment and you go along with it. Abe is frowning his ass off at Burns, but it doesn't do anything.

He's losing the girl. And this is where as the night ends, we see that Burns and Jackie are having a wonderful time. I swear, Monty, you are the devil himself. Who told you? Oh, yes, well, I'd say you're an angel, but angels don't dance like that. Huh.

Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ah! Ah! Ha! Ha!

Good night, Mrs. Bouvier, wherever you are. Mr. Simpson, I represent the estate of Jimmy Duranty. I have a court order demanding an immediate halt to this unauthorized imitation. Boys? Well, would it be all right with you? if I just laid down in the street and died? Yes, that would be acceptable. It's a nice touch that we see Jackie and Burns won the dance-a-thon.

They're carrying the trophy out with them. Burns actually is pretty charming here. You know, like angels don't move like that. It's like, well, you know what? I can actually see why she might be attractive to Burns in this moment. And, you know, the back half of season five, it's heavy on snaggle-puss and heavy on Jimmy Durante because in the boy who knew too much, we have Bart going, that's got a hoit.

And here we have a reference to what Jimmy Durante would say when he would sign off on his radio and television show, which was, good night, Mrs. Calabash, wherever you are. And that's a reference to his late wife. And the reason why she is Mrs. Calabash is because she was in a hospital in Calabasas, California, when she died. So that was his sly way of, like, saluting his dead wife at the end of the show without bumming everybody out.

wherever you are would refer to like she's in the afterlife yes yeah it's it's funny that on the wikipedia page mentioning this it's like they treated it as like oh it was a mystery he never explained it's like i don't know i feel like you one would conclude it's probably about his dead wife if he's saying good night to somebody right that's the reason why ab is dressed the way he is do we have a clip of that yes yes here's the original from his late in life television version of the jimmy d'rante show and now folks that's It's it for Broadway. Good night to all of you.

And good night, Mrs. Calabash. Well, everyone. A little bit of the music there, too, so you can see what Alph Clauseen was also kind of referencing as, and same too, like he's walking down a fake street-lighted area, just like Abe is, too, in the shot. I greatly appreciate the education. here. This is one of the ones I do absolutely nothing, nothing about still to this day. It makes me

think about, you know, something that comes up sometimes when you get feedback on animation for children is like, are kids going to get this? And it's like, the thing is, it's good to put things in that kids aren't going to get right away because it makes them smarter. They give people an opportunity to learn something they don't already know. And that was the whole thing of watching The Simpsons or like mystery science theater when you're a kid, is that they're filled with these references you don't get. And then it gets enriched as you go or you learn about them on purpose. Like it's, it's only a thing you know the only childhood reference i had to jimmy durante i didn't get this reference but i did know him as you know he'd be they make fun of him in bugs bunny cartoons hot cha cha cha or also like

i did see the frosty the snowman special from rank and bass which we covered on what a cartoon as well yes that snowman's not funny that's my take on that happy birthday yeah great is that your only bit Frosty Walsa Durante is kind of the vocal impression they do when most people

did would play Ben Grim the thing in Fantastic Four cartoons which I feel like Evan Moss Bachrack

very intentionally Dee did not do in the new Fantastic Four movie he was he like literally his few character moments in the

movie is him go like nah I don't say that that's on the cartoon I don't say that you know the reason I like

this plot a bit more than Marge gets a job. Because at Marge gets a job, Burns falls in love with Marge. Here, he falls in love with her mother. We have the Smithers element, and I was looking back at Marge gets a job. Smithers is not resentful of this relationship in that episode. He's helping Burns, even though he gets demoted to scrubbing toilets. He's willfully kidnapping Tom Jones. Here, it's more of a realistic take in that Smithers is in love with Burns, and he does not want to see this happen, and he's kind of trying to sabotage it as it unfolds. just like a quiet little thread that's kind of going through the whole episode. It just feels very truthful the way it actually would go.

The second he sees Burns getting along with Mrs. Bouvier, his like look of like, it's a very subtle little thing that's going to grow through the episode. But it's just, it's for one joke is the most they like hammer on it or a couple jokes. But he doesn't like break them up or anything. It doesn't pay off any plot sense. So we come back from the commercial break. And as you said, Toby, this is. now Burns takes over the narrative.

Like, this is from Burns' perspective, the next couple scenes. But hey, I don't mind. Burns is so great. Maybe if there was, like, a scene in Act 1 where he's like, I'm lonely smithers, maybe we could have had more of the seeds planted, but it's fine. Look, the thing is, these shows are so great and they're so funny. You're just along for the ride. It doesn't break anything that you're suddenly following a different character.

Or, like, there are certain, like, bits of logic that are not explained. The episode doesn't stop to explain, for example, the math of Bart needs to get the money back for the cell or anything like that. Later, we just watch him do it and you just are understood that like, oh, yeah, that ties up that loose end. It's just great. The episode, it trusts you to just be along for the ride and enjoy it for what it is. Mr. Burns' celebration, the way he's like dancing in place and clapping.

And also that a part of why he's excited is that a woman actually said no to him, which never happened since he became a billionaire, which is a funny, funny extra baby. Is this the first time he's referred to himself as a billionaire, not a millionaire? It could be. I did notice it. when it happened. I was like billion. That is a lot for the time. Much like his age, I think his fortune just continually grows.

Until Lisa points out he's no longer worth a billion dollars in an old man and the Lisa. And also that he has Bill Clinton just in his office like, I'm happy you found true love. Like that's great. It's funny though that Phil Hartman is doing a guest voice on this show, but he is not. Clinton, that's Dan. Yeah, it is interesting.

Man, that it's not, he's definitely doing Clinton in the tree house, but I wonder is there another Clinton after or before that? Are you saying it's is Dan who plays Clinton on the Simpsons? It seems to be Dan usually. We had in the episode, I forget what it was. It's when Lisa wants to play with the little white girls blues quartet.

And then later Clinton is playing with Mo says, Go get back to work. And then he says, make me. Yeah, I think that's Dan as well. Yeah, I think you're right. Well, this is where also the whoopty-do tarantula town is another of my favorite. Like, that's his last one. It's like he says, whoopty-do, Mr. President.

Then whoopty-do tarantula town is terrarium pull of tarantulas. And it's all him misreading, there's going, whoop-de-do. He's like, yes, whoop-de-do! This is where he asks for a help with his mash note to his girlfriend, and yeah. Oh, and also he tells everybody can go on from work today if they found true love, which an honest, sad man stays behind.

I have to guess, contemplated self-harm at least when he was left alone in the nuclear power plant. Sure, at least he's not the mass shooter guy we saw in March gets a job. Oh, that guy's already been taken down by the cops, I would think, at this point. This is where Smithers reveals the note he wrote, which Bill credits Josh for coming up with all that. Josh is much better at writing lovey-dovey stuff

than Bill Oakley is, apparently. The way Smithers walks off crying and it burns just like, his little like, great little touch there. He does not care. So it's the next night, Homer and Marge are welcoming over Mrs. Bouvier's new beau, and they all meet each other for the first time for the 80th time. Dad says this new guy is a report.

Pulse of obnoxious old billionaire. So let's all be extra nice to him. Ah! Hello, why, it's... It's, uh... Oh, it's, uh... Uh... Why, it's Fred Flintstone and his lovely wife, Wilma.

Oh, and this must be little pebbles. Mind if I come in, I brought chocolates. Never, never do! He's an awful, awful, awful man. I guess if he makes mom happy, that's all that really matters. That's right, money. Your money's happiness is all that monies. Yeah, very great pose and expression on Burns when they open the door.

It's a unique look we've never seen before with this half-litted confidence he has. And we just had Burns' air five episodes ago in the production order. So this is another chance of Homer being after Burns' money via extended family member. It's funny when Burns interacts with Bart here that he clearly does not remember that Bart, he tried to adopt Bart. and went through like weeks of psycho breaking down his psyche to make him convinced he's his father. It was very recent. But Mr. Burns can forget anything.

And then this was another of those bits like he said, Bob, of Bill and Josh bringing back like a season one thing of Smithers telling, you know, Mr. Burns who these people are, except now he gives him wrong information. He does not have the index cards this time. They will bring that back in Homer the Smithers. And Homer's excitement in,

and yabababadoo. Love that. The flat look on Homer's face as he just keeps saying money over and over again is another great, great one. A perfect read. Bart comes into the room and tries the nice approach, which Baby gets nothing, as Burns tells him.

So he turns it into a threat. And it's Merkin who calls this out as a reference specifically to the John Wu film, The Killer, which I love that movie. I feel like, I mean, people do point guns at each other's head. So I don't know if I never read it just as a reference to that.

Like I guess because Bill's like, oh, I saw the killer and I didn't get the reference because in the to get the gun against Bart's head, the weren't has to be crouching, but in the killer, it's two adult men who each have a gun against the other one's head. It's interesting because the killer, I'm wondering like this time period, how they were watching it. I guess maybe even they went and saw it in theaters because there was a long time period when the killer was like not in print.

It was like not available in the United States. So this must have been before it was unavailable. Maybe it could have been watching a VHS, I guess. I was very lucky to have a friend who's collected Hong Kong action movies in the second, a few years after this. And he had like, I remember they were orange plastic. I would guess probably bootleg copies of John Wu films like The Killer and sitting on fire from Ring of the Law movies like that.

I remember when I moved to Minneapolis for growing up in Fargo, we had like a really, really good independent video store in the neighborhood and a friend of mine who was a big John Wu fan visited. And this video store had all kinds of stuff that was out of print or bootleg. you couldn't get anywhere else. And one of the things they had was the killer. So he was able to watch it for the first time from renting it there. Yeah, I'm seeing here it was released on VHS in America in November of 92.

So for most people of this era, it would have been a new movie, even though it was 89 in its original release. And now we're living in a wonderful era where the killer and many other Hong Kong classics, Hong Kong cinema classics, are getting re-released, at least in the U.S. in 4K edition and on streaming or digital purchase for the first time in 4K as well, including the killer. So check out the killer. Great movie. Follow it up with some hard-boiled. It doesn't get much better than that. It's about as good as it, too.

And then, hey, both better tomorrows that John Wu directed. Those also, that's a whole day for you guys. But a great thing. But Bart gets his money. It's also great that only after he sprays him with the mustard, does he go like, up here? And he just takes him the money. Yeah, Burns calls his bluff.

He throws the money because he's like, I may be hit with the muster, but I don't want to get hit with the ketchup as well. So, yeah. So Bart gets the money. then we go to the guys trying to comfort Abe, which with a woman who seemingly dies inside of a cake. Is it, I would guess it's supposed to be an old woman too, right? Yeah.

You do hear signs of life. You hear some like breathing. So there's the indication that she's maybe not dead, but she's perhaps unconscious. Yeah, it sounds like it's supposed to be an old woman that is from the nursing home. And while on the date, this is when they call back. Another thing they set up in their most recent episode before then.

Yes, it's the return to Luigi in the Never Seen Salvatore. Hey, yeah, they should bring back Salvatore in the show. Now, Luigi's had 8 million jokes at this point, and I don't think they've ever identified a character. Luigi's mom became much more of the secondary Luigi character than the Salvatore. That's true. I don't think we've ever seen Salvatore. These two Luigi scenes between this and Sweet Seymour Skinner, it's basically the exact same joke, but my God, is it a funny joke? We quote the one from Sweet Seamore Skinner about the real ugly kid all of the time. And a real ugly kid. This is where Bart's storyline wraps up as he does the right thing

for no good plot reason comes out of this in our next clip. Dad, I'm really sorry, but I charge $350 on your credit card. What? Don't worry, here's the cash. Woo-hoo! $350! Now I can buy 70 transcripts of Nightline! But, Dad!

Woo-hee! Oh, well, he's happy. I'm going to keep this Mary Worth phone right here, Her stern but sensible face will remind me never to do anything so stupid again. Hey, Bart, you want to go play with that x-ray machine in the abandoned hospital? Sure. Mary Worth fully ignored. And in case you think that's random, I have a clip from a 1994 episode of Nightline to play for you guys.

If you wish a printed transcript of Nightline, please send $5 to 1535 Grant Street. Denver, Colorado, 80203. If you wish a video cassette version of Nightline, the cost is 1498 plus 395 shipping and handling. Yeah, as a precocious kid, I would watch these news programs and I would hear that announcement and think, it would be kind of cool to have a transcript of a TV show. Well, I wonder if the original Nightline transcript reselling audience

is similar to the animation cell audience and they're selling these to each other at a hefty market. I've got the whole Desert Storm Nightline Collection. But only if it comes with the Ted Cople seal of approval on it, just like a Simpson seal. This scene I really love, for a lot of reasons,

I mentioned earlier that I like how the episode does not set up the math. It does not set up Bart feeling guilty really or needing to pay it back at all. The closest thing you get is that he feels bad that he spent the money on something that sucks. So it kind of implies that if the animation cell had been cool, he wouldn't have cared that he had spent that money

and wouldn't have felt like he needed to pay it back. And I really appreciate that they don't bother connecting those dots whatsoever and just let it play out on its own. Another thing with this B story that I think is great, I checked, and it starts so late into the episode, and it ends so early. It really kind of plays out pretty much through the second act, and then it comes and goes. And I love it. And this joke implies that Nightline and Smart Line exist in the same universe. Well, the joke doesn't, you're not going to laugh as hard if he says, Bart line. So you get, yeah, that totally works. It's great that Homer. I mean, also I love that Bart is playing this like he's on a regular sitcom. Like this is on, you know, family matters or

something of like the kid saying, dad, I'm sorry I did something wrong. Here's the money back. I've learned my lesson. And Homer gives nothing to it. And he's like, oh, Homer doesn't even think to pay back the credit card. He just realizes I have $350 in my hand. That gets me 70 transcripts of Nightline on the current price. And also, yes, the Mary World phone, completely ignored as Homer, and as Bart and Millhouse are going to give themselves X-rays, which will give Millhouse special powers as Fall Out Boy later on. Oh, exactly. The X-ray thing is also good because it feels like predicts other B stories will get later

in the season with Bart and Millhouse going out of ventures. We then head back over to the Burns storyline as Burns proposes and Ms. Bouvier seemingly is going to die of ingesting that ring, I would think. Oh, she'll pass it. I think he was just too impatient to wait for that. to propose. Just like he has a rib that always breaks, his knee fills with fluid while getting on one knees. As they say on the commentary, he's gone back to being very feeble after doing his amazing dancer team. He's been scalded by fondue, his knees are filling with fluid. It's a bad

time to be Mr. Burns. It was all that dancing that weakened him. That was fondue. Do they call that out as fondue? Merkin says fondue on the commentary. It looks like a fondu pot to me. And I think in the 90s fondue was funny. Yes, yes. When I watched it, I just assumed it was soup and I was like bringing soup to a picnic. Fandu makes way more sense, so, you know, egg on my face. This is a great bit in editing. I wonder if it was in the script or this was like a discovery in either the edit from

color or in the storyboarding or animatic. But I love that we hear Marge's reaction to Mrs. Bouvier's answer instead of Mrs. Bouvier's answer in our next clip here. Oh, Mom, you can't marry Mr. Burns. He's an evil man. Evil schmivel, Marge. Monty can provide. for me. And besides, he's a great kisser.

Yuck! What about Abe Simpson? Don't you have any feelings for him? Oh, he's a deer, but he's too much of an old fuss pot. We're all aware of Grandpa's problems, but compared to Mr. Burns, he's Judge Freaking Reinhold. I don't know who that is. Oh, who neither? Now I'll have more time to read things I find on the ground. latex condo

boy I'd like to live in one of those you know as I get older especially on this podcast I do find myself quoting I don't know who that is very often and I feel like once you hit a certain age you shouldn't be expected to know who people are you've got your people yeah Marge had the great point in Homer Palozo

like leave me out of it like I just you know I don't need to pay attention to stuff when we just covered the new not classic, the new King of the Hill episode and I was like, who's number one Alex Warner with his song Ordinary? I was like, I don't know who that is. I tell myself. With me recently, somehow I missed

every Mark Ruffalo movie in my entire life and whenever I would hear the name Mark Ruffalo, I'd be like, oh, it's a funny name. And then in the past couple of years, I've seen now, I don't know, five Mark Ruffalo movies. I'm like, how did I, in my adult life, not encounter a Mark Ruffalo? You never had to throw on. You can count on me? Never. It's never come up. I mean, I think it was, for me, It was like poor things and Mickey 17.

That's when the Ruffalo was really hitting in my adult life. You miss the kids are all right as well, I guess. I did. I'm sorry, everybody. I'm trying to do better. Thank you for your apology. I mean, I also feel that way whenever there's fancasting for like, oh, we are going to, you know, adapt to this thing. Like, say, the just announced like Netflix, Legend of Zelda thing, the actors are actors under like 25.

and I have no clue who they are. And they've done like one Disney show or one Netflix show or something, but I've never heard of them. And that's just how it's going to be in 10 years from now when the next Spider-Man is cast. People much younger than me will be like,

oh boy, it's that person from this streaming series. And I'll just be like, I don't know, I guess he's the new Spider-Man. All right. Well, it's been pretty nice for Judge Reinholt lately because he was recently in the Netflix, Beverly Hills Cop sequel, Axel F. And there was a billboard for that in Vancouver at some point.

And it looked like I just said Axelph. And I'm like, what is Axelph? Because there was no space between the L and the F. And then eventually I put the pieces together. You know, that was good on Eddie Murphy. Eddie Murphy could do that movie without any of the other actors. He doesn't need them. But let them come back for the money and the prestige.

Even, you know, Judge Freaking Reinhold is very nice of him. The finding of a latex condo as well is he'd love to live in one of those. It does sound pretty nice. This time I caught he read it as condom. condom. Oh, like a dome. You could live in a dome. So we go to the wedding and we see that Burns has only one friend,

a guy who's like older than the Nazis. Like he's like he's from Bismarck era. He's a World War I German. Yeah, Barney nicely fills out the groomside. And we see that Abe isn't coming because his reply envelope had a check to the gas company. It's also great seeing Marge and Smithers like murmuring to each other down the aisle. That's a great little gag too. This is a big moment.

where they finally just say, like, her name is Jacqueline. Like Lovejoy saying her name on the altar is when it officially became like, because already Bouvier being Marge's main name, that already is a Kennedy family reference. But they never committed to what her mother's name was until this one. If you read the Simpsons family uncensored album or the Simpsons Uncensored Family album in the family tree that's in the back here, you can see that her name was Ingrid originally.

Okay. You have the rarer naked Bart cover version of that. They eventually made it Naked Homer. And did they update the name of the Bouvier? That I'm not sure. Because also, if you go to the Simpson side on the front cover, her name, Homer's mother's name is Penelope Olson as well. Which was both of those, like these are softly canonical because MacRaining very involved in official printed Simpsons things,

especially in 91. So I would say softly canonical, but this is where they let go of Ingrid and Mank. it, Jacqueline, same with, at the very least, when Marge's mother comes back in the show, they at least have one of her fake IDs, B. Penelope Olson. Yeah, it's nice to call back to that book.

And Lovejoy's biblical quote is made up, but it sounds like a very real passage about Blizz Blas and Him Ham. As well as like everything he does just sucks and like him like kicking Bart in front of his grandmother, like that is

so mean. Well, it's in this beautifully staged too, The shot is, like, down at his eye level, and you're watching the foot hitting him from above. I was like, damn, that is a hell of a shot. Though, Bart did nearly kill him in that trapdoor recently, so I can see why he'd have a little anger towards him. Yes. And he hurts Jackie's finger by jamming the ring onto it. Yeah, Mr. Burns is being a real bastard here.

And I guess now it's time to talk about the graduate for 20 minutes, because, like many other shows and movies, the Simpsons chose to parody the famous wedding scene, which is very funny because a lot of a lot of things. have done this. Video games have done it too. But Wayne's World 2 releases in December of 93 shortly before this, they have that in the movie, a parody of the wedding scene. And I think in that version, they play it very straight, right? Are there any, like, heightened gags in Waynesworld 2? You know, I watched that movie very recently as part of a run where we watched every single S&L movie. And I actually don't recall if they played it with any major, huge, hilarious gags. But it's also interesting, was Waynes World 2 then the first major, like, reference to the graduate ending in like a parody context? I'm sure it's happened before. It's funny because the

video game, The Secret of Monkey Island, ends with a graduate parody. And that's why I believe the female character in Monkey Island, the main female character, is called Elaine, just to sell the parody. Because somebody's got a scream Elaine, and that becomes her name. The film in Mike Nichols' direction and it is so highly influential to the next generation of a filmmakers and comedy writers like Dave Dave Merkin talks about how it was like one of his all-time favorite films and he's he definitely

if you've seen Dave Merkin's like film work you can see like his approach to staging a joke and doing it through like direction and editing and all that similar to what Mike Nichols does in the graduate Jim Brooks loves the graduate too and and yeah we run living through

such a run of graduate references as a kid I do think this was like the this in Wayne's world were the tipping point for me to finally like, definitely by 96 or 97, I rented the graduate and watched it. And I hadn't seen it since the 90s. I actually

just watched it this week. I was like, you know, I want to watch that. So what's crazy is that I completely forgot. A third of the movie takes place in Berkeley, California, a city I lived in for 17 years. Yeah, I forgot about that too. And I've only seen it once and it was about a decade later than you, Henry, but I remember very little of the movie. I did

enjoy it. I wasn't like blown away. It wasn't made for like my generation. I did enjoy it for what it was. I mean, it really hit me watching it this time of like, oh, I mean, if you had said to me, of course, the film Rushmore, one of my all-time favorite movies, is very influenced by the graduate.

But now watching The Graduate, I was like, oh, like, this is like shot for shot. Like, for example, in Rushmore, Max Fisher starts smoking around the same time that Benjamin starts smoking when he's disillusioned in that movie. Like, or the pool scene is like echoing each other. There's so much in it. And Rushmore fits much better for me because it's about a guy who doesn't get laid and all of his problems are his fault, which is much more real to my life.

An older woman, they try to seduce you. That's also like Max Fisher wants to have a graduate thing. The older woman in his life is a responsible woman, not an admitted alcoholic like in Bancroft's character. She's like, no, Max, you're a child and I don't want to have sex with you. And this makes sense because The Simpsons had already parodied a few other things in the graduate, like especially when Dustin Hoffman was on. but like a very obscure reference is when Homer is running home on his final day on earth in the, in the Fugu episode. Unlike in this episode where they did pay for the, I think they paid for the song rights to parody a Simon and Garfunkel song. And this one, in that episode, they just kind of have like a strumming guitar that sort of sounds like the start to, here's to you, Mrs. Robinson.

Yeah. I'm thinking about this movie. And, you know, I definitely watched it as a Wes Anderson fan because I'd heard that it was a major influence to the point where I was. surprised then to see the climax at the wedding and be like oh that's what this is from like i was not aware ahead of watching the graduate which is something that happens constantly with the simpsons where you watch some random movie and you realize it unlocks some scene he didn't realize was a reference bob you remember where i used to live where we recorded together for years three blocks north of that is the apartment that his character lives in in the movie i looked that up

i was like holy shit i walk by that a million times is it right off of shaddock it's on channing it's uh channing and dana interesting Yeah, you can see, like, oh, that's where the half-priced books will be later. I know. Like, it's, there's Mo's books. He even goes into one of the fraternity houses that I walked by a million times. Oh, so Moes makes an appearance in The Graduate on college. Wow.

I got to see this. All my favorite buildings. He stalks Elaine at Moes. It was crazy to watch it. Yes, I mean, it's a beautiful movie that's incredibly influential. It's like, is it also like, do you see why like boomers are obsessed with it? Totally when you watch it. It's like, yeah.

Not to dwell on Moes. too much, but I've been to Moes a ton when I live there, and I'm surprised they don't have like a still of the scene in Moes the second you walk in. Like the Big Boy, where they film that one scene in heat that doesn't really last very long. They celebrate Heat when you, as soon as you go into Big Boy.

I also have the Big Boy, they have up a plaque that's like, here's where the Beatles ate once that one story. Like, they must have now an official like David Lynch plaque up there. I haven't been there since David Lynch is passing. I don't know, Toby. I've actually been there a couple times since David Lynch is passing. Sadly, they had just cleaned that stuff up right before I had gotten there.

But I don't recall if they have a David Lynch thing there yet. But my guess is that they probably will. They certainly should. It's a nice place to go eat. There's one other graduate reference that I didn't get as a kid. I watched It's the Gary Shandling show way too early to get any of its met in it. I watched it before I watched The Simpsons. When we had Mike Reese for an interview and I told him I was a child fan of it, he's like, no, you weren't.

Nobody watched that. Did you understand it when you were watching it as a kid? No, not at all. I probably I liked it because, like, Gary Shandling's talking to me, just like Mr. Rogers and Big Bird do. In the first season, there's a graduate episode like Beat for Beats. He's being seduced by an older woman named Mrs. Robertson. And the funniest bit in the episode is Norman Fell comes over to visit. And Gary Shandling says, hey, Norman, what are you doing here?

And he's like, well, you're doing a graduate reference and you know I was in the graduate. I was the landlord. And Gary Shandling's like, no, you weren't. You weren't in a graduate. You're thinking of Three's company where you were the landlord. And he's like, no, I was in the graduate. And he like literally grabs a VHS and puts it into VCR and plays the graduate to show his scene in the movie. And of course.

That's funny. I want to watch this episode now. And of course, Anne Bancroft, Mrs. Robinson herself, will be in On the Simpsons next season in Fear of Flying. And I believe one of the fun facts from the movie is that she is six years older than him in the movie when playing twice his age, I believe. Yeah, I think Hoffman is 30. So no wonder he's so, you know, confused. used and misguided. He's a 30-year-old college graduate. He's like Ferris Bueller's friend. It's like, well, that's your problem. You're 30.

I hate to be a stereotype of the recently diagnosed, but his character, I view through somewhat of a spectrumy lens. You might be thinking of Rain Man. Did you watch Rain Man? Oh, you know what? That's right. Why did the graduate count all those cards? Why do we hear the entire ending that just happens from the graduate, except with very old people? My favorite song? How to... I specifically requested no romantic music.

What... Mrs. Booby-I! Mrs. Boomy! Y! Mrs. Boobie! Honey, are you sure you want to be Mrs. Montgomery Burns? Wouldn't you rather be Mrs. Abraham J. Simpson? No.

Oh. I don't want to be either. Hattigitty damn! That's good enough for me! Hey! Turn off that racket! Yes, that chance, pups! Hello Grandpa, my old friend.

your busy days at an end and so on Bill and Josh they fail to make oh mercy Skinner's catchphrase but they did make hot diggedy apes catchphrase it does show up a lot later I never even think of that as like oh yeah this establishes it

Hot Diggety Damn is a great extra one too in the graduate they basically play three different Simon and Garfunkel songs 18 times in the movie and the sound of silence is the opening and ending song and damn it it works see it's another of those like arrested development just made it

a joke but it was reused so so much though it's used as a joke in the movie as well I should say because I know what's coming I tend to ignore the joke with Otto where grandpa hears this very gentle plaintive guitar picking and he considers that racket

yes that's great this is once more Kip Lennon brought in to do another sound alike we last heard him doing the raindrops keep falling in my head renditions that closed out Wacking Day. Yeah, unfortunately, not on any of the albums, though. I double-checked.

I own all three albums for Testify Songs in the Key of Springfield and Go Simsonic. And they have other ones that are, you know, covers or parodies. But it must be that Simon and or Garfunkel are not allowing the songwriting clearance for this one to be on any of the CDs. Yeah, I wasn't sure upon listening to it, how direct of a parody it was, where it's like, Oh, are the notes different enough that it's not literally? Is it like a, you know, that kind of parody? But I guess that would mean that they didn't want to shell out for the disc version. So it must be that they did pay out to Simon and Garfunkel for this one.

And I guess the heightening of the graduate scene in this, Wayne's World 2, I believe, plays it straight. But in this version, the glass actually shatters when he pounds on it enough and he falls into the church from the organist chamber or whatever you call that. Yeah. My God, the animation on that fall hits the ground and all the glasses there. it's like, that is a hell of a shot. Oh, yeah.

Abe should be dead as well from that fall, of course. And also the great reveal of like, I don't want to marry either. Like a perfect back to the status quo, just like, eh, you know, she's not going to marry anybody. The end. Yeah, well, it's funny. You're watching all this bad stuff happen where Burns is being such an asshole, and you're watching Marge be like, ah, about that.

But you're not really tracking if Jacqueline is even noticing it when that scene's happening. So it's like, I guess she noticed it, or she just decided separately that she just doesn't want to do this anymore. She can do whatever she wants, I guess. I feel like when I tape this off of TV in its first broadcast, they either, like, silenced it or had a promo over it. I feel like I never heard this full version of the song with Abe talking over it until the DVD release.

Certainly it would get talked over in a syndicated release of it, if not fully cut. And Bill and Josh have another funny, it's another those moments where Bill is like kneeling. Things that bother him about having worked on the Simpsons is one is that he says, Him and Josh have gotten more payment in residuals for this song from ASCAP than they ever did for writing the episode or any episode. Well, this was before the show was like a proper Writers Guild union show. So, yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

I mean, that's what made the syndication release the following fall after this. Such a money party for Fox and not other people. We get to hear Abe say why he fell in love with Mrs. Bouvier, which is it sounds like his old Victrola. With a listing tube, you jam in your ear. And he gets shushed We end the episode On just a bunch more funny Abe of being old comedy

Final thoughts We talked about this earlier In our Matlock conversation But this is the kind of episode You can make When you have a 22 episode order In a season You can ask

Oh, what's Marge's mom up to And then secretly make it A Mr. Burns plot? So I feel like These are the kind of episodes We don't really get anymore And now Even The Simpsons is down to 15

A year starting with the next season So I feel like These little avenues Are things that we really can't explore what these small episode counts. But yeah, Stone Cold Classic, love all the old person humor. It's a little bittersweet too because we don't have these old people anymore. We have a new kind of old person, but they're not these old people. And I do miss this generation because these were our grandparents. That's true. You're watching it and it feels like you are

like Bart's age watching it because these are the old people you are living with in your life at that time. Yeah, the old people who always spent all day in the periodical section in the library, they're not there anymore. They're hanging out near the the Hal Roach retirement living if you get catch my drift. And also, too, I mean the B story of the cell. That one speaks to me even more now. Other than the fear of having a stroke at some time, I more can relate to, wow, a cell, owning a Simpson cell. You have many arms drawn by nobody, but they are worth hundreds of dollars. And best of luck to anybody out there. But hey, if you see the listener, if you see another cell of this episode with the cell in

it, don't bid on it and only tell me about it and secretly tell me about it in a DM. Don't tell other people so they can bid it up. Well, now you just committed the Streisand effect. You just activated it. Honestly, I'm doing it for my own benefit to make sure they prevent me from spending the equivalent of 7,000 copies of nightline transcripts. I've already sent Heritage Oxens a picture of you that says, do not sell to this boy. Thank you once again to Toby Jones for being on the show. Please check out his movie.

AJ goes to the dog park wherever you buy your movies digitally. But as for us, if you want to support us and get all of these podcasts ad-free. and one week at a time, go to patreon.com slash Talking Simpsons. Sign up for five bucks. You get just that ad-free podcast. If you don't like ads, that's where you got to go, buddy.

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for $10 a month, you get basically three extra podcasts because we often talk for five to six hours about animated movies. Last month in September, you would have heard us talking about the Lego movie, the very influential film from the creators of a clone high. And before that, we did a whole summer of Disney 2000s films, a difficult time for Disney. And that's just the most recent of a wide range of films we've covered. The Disney Renaissance, Pixar films, tons of those, grown-up stuff like two Beavis and Butthead movies, and superhero things like Batman and our epic. And I don't say that lightly, folks, epic.

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can be found at TalkingSimpsons.com. so much for listening, everybody. We'll see you again next time for Season 15's Fraudcast News, and we'll see you then. I even bought me some special novelty dentures. Yeah, that will never work. If you want to make your move, you've got to play it cool. Now what you gotta do, if you want to get a kiss, is act real smooth and make your move like this. Oh, I see.

So if I take your advice and make your patented move, then my chances for love will slightly improve. Uh-huh. Now what's that rule? Play it cool.