Talking Simpsons - Talking Simpsons - Lisa The Skeptic With Ian Jones-Quartey

Episode Date: March 13, 2019

This week we're joined once again by Ian Jones-Quartey, the creator of OK K.O.! Let's Be Heroes and animation expert, to chat all about Lisa navigating the worlds of science and religion! After discovering an angel skeleton, the entire town is in an uproar about a religious quandary, before they get scared of the possible end times! Listen now (but be careful not to injure your boating arm)! Support this podcast and get dozens of bonus episodes by visiting Patreon.com/TalkingSimpsons and becoming a patron!

if you guys love talking simpsons and what a cartoon you guys should check out at patreon.com slash talking simpsons our brand new what a cartoon movie podcast for ten dollar and up patrons you get access to our premium what a cartoon movie podcast where me and bob go through a different animated feature film each month we've done Batman, Mask of the Phantasm, Kiki's Delivery Service, Akira, and a Goofy movie. Who knows what we'll do next? You'll want to check it all out for yourself at the $10 and up level at patreon.com slash talking simpsons. I heartily endorse this event or product.

Ahoy, hoy, everybody. Welcome to Talking Simpsons, where we're straining to do some explaining. I'm your host, concealed amnesia ray carrier Bob Mackey. This is our chronological exploration of The Simpsons. Who is here with me today? Henry Gilbert in bone schmoans. And our special guest. I'm Ian print skipper skipple print nipple skipper. I'm sorry, print nipple skimster Jones Courtney.

All three are good. And today's episode is Lisa the Skeptic. Well, if you're so sure what it ain't, how about telling us what it am? Today's episode aired on November 23rd, 1997. As always, tell us what happened on this mythical day in real world history. Oh my god!

Oh boy, Bobby. Sean Bean marries his third of five wives. Beavis and Butt-Ed airs its last episode for a while and in excess frontman michael hutchinson passes away of uh some disputes of his reason of passing but he's declared a suicide so that all happened in 1997 this was the weird period in which king of the hill and beavis and butthead existed concurrently at the same time oh yeah and uh it was called beavis and Butthead are Dead.

Yeah. But they didn't die. It was like a TV guy trick. Like, it was called They're Dead. Oh, I see. And the whole town thinks they're dead because they stopped showing up for school even longer than normally. Right, yeah.

And they spent most of the episode watching every TV show clip they did in the entire series history, right? Yeah, and their principal, I believe their principal dies, quote unquote, in that final episode. He has seemingly a heart attack and falls over, but then he's fine when they restarted the series. They did not keep him dead. And the new series is really, really good. By new, I mean it was eight years ago.

Yes, exactly. But it was great. It was great. Yeah, they didn't skip a beat. I didn't like the reality show stuff as much as the music video stuff but um it made actually it made sense for the time they were doing it yeah yeah it's what those kids would be watching in 2011 exactly yeah no the the michael hutchinson's passing away it's how i think a lot of people thanks to rumors learn about the concept of autoerotic asphyxiation, which some say was the cause,

but that's not what the police say. And he was going through some tough times with a divorce and child custody thing. In the years since, NXS has had multiple new lead singers to go on tour. I think they even did a reality show to get the new singer of NXS. So that guy apparently only lasted like five years.

But he's alive. He is still with us. Okay, that's good. I guess, yeah, Sean Bean has been married more times than I thought he had been married. He's on his fifth wife now. And I wish them nothing but the best. Who will survive. Ian, you're back.

You were last heard on Pochie in case uh listeners don't know i mean you're show running your own animated series all this cool stuff but i mean tell us about you of course hey i'm ian jones cordy i'm the creator and showrunner executive producer of ok ko let's be heroes that's a cartoon on Cartoon Network. Watch that wherever. Do a Google or whatever. Also, pretty much lifelong Simpsons fan. Well, no, it couldn't be lifelong because it came out when I was like six. But still. That counts.

That's most of my life. Yeah. So, yeah, I'm just excited to be here. I will say do a Hulu on OKKO. Yes, please do. It is absolutely worth your time so funny if you love the simpsons you'll love okko and this episode is uh is the your first in season nine you've done a two season eight ones before yeah uh and so yeah how are how are you feeling

going into season nine well yeah it's weird uh going back to this episode it was actually a lot different than i remembered it and i think it's because when this episode came out i was 14 and i was abandoning all the things i liked as a kid being like oh this this stinks now and i think that was starting to happen to me with the simpsons also you know like i think at the same time like like, this is where, like, you go back, you read a bunch of listicles about when did the show go wrong or whatever, you know, and people say that it's here. And I think maybe at the time I was very, like, cynical about it and I wanted to be better than all the things that I liked. But going back to it without that context and without that feeling was just like,

it was just a pleasant surprise. I had a really good time watching it and i was laughing at the whole thing and you know maybe the story isn't as deep or like easy to uh hold on to but uh i had a lot of the jokes are really good it's yeah i'm hoping our listeners are pleasantly surprised by season nine as well because and we're just talking about it over dinner is like uh i i've said this a lot by the way on the air but we were all very much part of the narrative that you were online and it now is the time to hate the show you used to love and i feel like revisiting things when there are more important things to be mad about number one but number two we've all mellowed out a bit you know and we were uh we were all very angry internet kids in the late 90s yeah but uh it is nice to

nice to go back to these episodes without all the baggage land and we're all adults now who like have to pay bills and go to the doctor and all those things like we have we have other just day-to-day things that are more in that take away our energy from being mad at a tv show as much as before well i was also interested on like from an animator's point of view what do you think is season nine and And David Silverman has left the show, I believe. And season nine is now Jim Reardon and has taken over as series director. Like, do you see a noticeable difference between this eight and nine? Yeah.

I mean, there is, there is a difference, but Jim Reardon is also fabulously talented. Yeah. He's so talented. Yeah. And notably,

I think Brad Bird has gone at this point as well. I believe he was left too. Yeah. I mean, but honestly, when I was watching it again, the thing I was really just noticing was just, from a showrunner's perspective,

putting together a story in TV is really difficult. And the things that I used to get so angry at the show for, I'm not anymore. Now I'm just like, wow, that was a really clever way to solve that writing problem or get uh cut through this act one and get us somewhere really good and funny um i just you know it just felt really good i have a personal history with this episode by the way so uh i taught a college writing class when i was in grad school if you took that class i'm very sorry i've actually never heard of it i've never heard from any of my students uh from 10 years ago are they all in prison are they

alive who knows if you're out there let me know i want to know if i did some good in your life but i use this episode as a writing prompt because it's it's having two arguments going on in it and my writing prompt was like what is this episode saying do you agree with it yes or no and it was fun to read responses from people who were 18 or 19 then and now we're 30 but that is interesting um yes but yeah this is a great episode in terms of just um i don't know if the simpsons ever really laid this out in such serious terms i mean merkin stuff was very critical of religion uh more so than you know oakley and weinstein even uh mike scully yeah i think yeah well it's also interesting that this season has this episode and the joy of sect which is a merkin, which you're both like critical of faith, but coming at it from different

angles. Yeah, for sure. This definitely has a more like both sides kind of feel to it, which I am vocally against both sides as I might not like that. But I feel I now look back on being Lisa's age or older than Lisa, but wanting to feel like Lisa and, and regretting being a super smug atheist, especially to a loving parents like Marge. I think we've all talked about our logic Lord pass on this show,

but I was very much of Lisa's, you know, mindset. I subscribed to skeptic magazine, like all cool guys. I read a lot of Sam Harris books and I thought, you know, like if no one likes me, they'll have to like me if I'm right all the time. It turns out they like you less.

I think it's interesting that you use this as a writing prompt because that is something I felt when I watched it again. It didn't actually feel too both sidesy to me. It actually kind of felt like once I was through watching it, it really is a rorschach test of what you come out of it because it's not like either side is specifically proven wrong yeah in the episode even though the townspeople get to be dumb because they got tricked uh the subject of faith is never like proven to be wrong or a bad thing and neither is skepticism it's all it's all kind of really the baggage you bring to the episode does really reflect like what you come away with it from yeah i think it's different than the gun episode in that point where the gun episode wants to have it both ways but

this one is just like you decide what you want to see in this yeah yeah the gun episode has the good nra but in this in in this one though not so much like the i mean the religious leaders are like leading a mob at some point but marge is like you gotta have if you gotta believe in something like and yeah it's gotta worship something yeah no i mean and now uh yeah i guess the rorschach thing is true because i'm i am bringing my own baggage to it it was just like regretting being such a just such a smug atheist. I mean, like, yeah, now I've had atheists on Twitter tell me to not be so mean to atheists.

And I think they have a little bit of a point because I'm now tired of them because I live in a place where it's easy to not go to church or whatever. And they still live in a area of, they tell me they still live in an area of America where that's not easy for them. And to like be a non-churchgoer an unbeliever is as ned calls people like that in the episode that's not easy to do and so i i don't i don't want to forget that like for people who

are atheists like and i don't organize religion i'm not the biggest fan of but uh it's yeah i don't want to be too mean to it it's complicated yeah and honestly the episode comes off as just a broad criticism of the entire debate it doesn't really take its aim too hard at either side which i really enjoy it's the thing that makes me feel like well it's not both sides ism it's actually truly balanced because it's not really making fun of the viewpoints as much as it's making fun of the hoopla around that debate and those viewpoints and the smugness and the condescension from either side. And not so much taking aim at people's faith or people's skepticism, which I think is really nice. I think the one target is exploitation of religious beliefs absolutely that's the one like target that is obvious and homer is the bad person yeah and them all people yeah and i think like i think no matter who you are you can agree that exploiting people's beliefs is is messed up

yeah yeah totally i think it was handled in an interesting way too because david cullen i would think is as as a very scientific guy i think he even said in his original script like he was much more it was much more on lisa's side and maybe mike scully like and others tempered it more to make it uh have a wider range of views because yeah david cullen like you've you're a futurama like he it's he's definitely more on the lisa side of things for sure yeah in the commentary david cohen mentions that it was literally supposed to be finding the missing link and then it turning into a scopes monkey trial and i think kind of making it this absurd thing, this angel, which is like a really wacky prop,

really helps kind of turn the thing into just a broad satire instead of a targeted attack at someone's beliefs. And he tells a story in the commentary about how he came up with the idea while at the big fancy museum in New York. I've never been there. The Natural History Museum? Yeah. It's a great museum.

That has the squid and the whale in it right yeah i i only know that from the film the squid and the whale i i gotta go there the next time i'm in new york i should really sample that place that he came up with it while they're just like that so it's why they have a scene in basically the springfield version of the natural history museum it's also kind of inspired by like hoaxes in the in his in american history like the cardiff giant was a big right yeah yeah which was also just used to fake advertising something and i miss those types of scams now like the loch ness monster the cardiff giant like post drone there are no cryptids yeah you can't really get away with that stuff it kind of brings me down like superhero movies now that they have to like deal with a security state or the surveillance state at all

times like how does spider-man actually get home and not be spotted by 80 drones like every every place he goes has to be watched that's why i like in the uh in the iron giant movie that's they have to set it in the 50s so that he can actually hide somewhere. Yeah. And yeah, this episode begins with a really funny, I will say season nine. I still think Homer is too mean a lot, but I, I just have to say,

I love this act one, this opening. It's, it's one of the in, I was surprised watching it again that it was on this episode. Cause I was like, Oh yeah, this is yeah this is

this is classic and yeah he's mean and stupid but yeah the setup is good and the joke and the joke is on him too yeah it's funny that realty bites is next and it's about the police giving away on vehicle but that's true so i confuse these two scenes all the time because they're kind of unrelated to the episode as a whole well and, and Snake gets arrested in the first scene, so it does explain why in realty Bytesy's in prison. Ah, okay. We're adding more continuity than I meant there, though there is some intentional continuity later in this episode.

But yes, here's Homer on his way to a motorboat. This sting can't miss, boys. I mail these bogus prize certificates to every scofflaw in Springfield. When they show up for their free motorboats, we arrest them and beat them to the full extent of the law. So the hook is baited. Nice metaphor, Eddie. Yeah, good work, Eddie. Up and away in my beautiful, my beautiful motorboat.

But we didn't enter any police raffle. That doesn't matter. The important thing is we won. Eddie really gets a good line in the series. Yeah. I think like Who Shot Mr. Burns was a part two. That's a good way to get sick. Whatever part that was.

Yeah, they need to. Oh, sucking quarters from the love test yeah i'll drive no he you know they should have done more with eddie he's he's a good uh straight man lou is a more fun voice though yeah he usually talks the most well i think also i think his area is more up for the fun than uh yeah than harry share harry share perhaps uh but i love i do love wig of complimenting him on a metaphor nice work yeah i feel like i talk about my dad issues every time on this but but i do think like the homer stuff it's a little too real for me of a of a dad being wrong about something and not listening to anyone in his family like this doesn't sound

right dad ah shut up it's fine like and his uh up up and away song we heard up up and away already in the series at one point oh from uh such a bomb right box kites yeah we played it back then we will not do it now we're not going to tell you the story of up up and away we did it in that one you gotta listen to it then uh but yeah these this appears in a news story later in the show and this is like kind of like police pr thing they do where they invite camera crews there for these kind of stings just so it can make the nightly news uh it's kind of like uh what was the term our friends of the show citations nina gave it like copper ganda or something like that yeah

right right but this one is so great because homer has to go to a police station they don't even do the the ski the sting somewhere that isn't the police station so you have to go to them and then homer sees all the proof he needs that snake is being arrested and beaten yeah we see him get roughed up pretty bad. I love Wiggum's just like, he, he, he, he. He's so, he's so fun. He's very happy about what he's about to get away with. Homer doesn't get all he bargained for. You have the right to remain.

All right, Simpson Homer, you're next. Woo-hoo! Howdy, gents. I'm here to collect my free... Oh! Oh, my boating arm! What's going on? You're under arrest, slimebag.

What's this perp in for, Lou? 235 unpaid parking tickets totaling $175. I hope you brought your checkbook, wise guy. Lousy cops. Lucky for you, I'm double parked right there. Now, can I please have my motorboat? Yeah. And the parking tickets provides a strange link to the New York City episode. Yeah. Oh, wow.

I thought of that when I was rewatching it. Like, oh, for some reason, I remember this scene being in that episode. Oh, yeah. Yeah. With these, sometimes these unrelated act ones, it's a little hard to connect them in your memories. It's a real Futurama-style math joke of the amount of tickets he has versus the charge. Those are very minor parking tickets.

What was he doing? Less than a dollar each is how they add up. And I also just love how I love an oblivious Homer joke taken to an extreme and that he walks into the room surrounded by people sitting in handcuffs he's like hi gents so we're hey and his boating arm boating arm also saying shut up instead of anything clever is a very david merkin style joke shut up shut up and uh yeah everybody it's just uncomfortable because i've been in those car rides too where like your dad doesn't want to admit he's wrong but you all the whole family's like but he he's

wrong right but it gets increasingly more tense in that and i like that the the a the actual plot begins because marge wants to change the subject on an uncomfortable conversation. Like, hey, the mall, everybody. Look at that. And yes, Lisa then finds a new thing to care about after hearing about the mall. Ooh, there's that new mega mall they're building. They say the air conditioner will be more powerful than a million hydrogen bombs. Hey, they can't just build a parking lot on Sabretooth Meadow. That's where they discovered all those fossils.

Fossils, schmozels. You can't stop progress because of some moldy old bones. Bones, schmozels. But they might be paving over rare specimens. Pull over so we can complain, Dad. Come on, who wants to complain with me? Fine, I'll come back later. Who wants to come back with me?

Fine I love Lisa's Poor Lisa Yeah Yardley's delivery on that second fine Is really good Fine Fine

And it's a great runner this episode They could have kept it going But I just love Homer's constant blank schmank. What's the next one that comes up? A fax schmank. But then Homer's so overactive on it that he does it in the same line, like fascial schmossels.

He heard himself say bones and rejects it as bone schmones. The fact about the air conditioner, too, that makes no sense A million hydrogen Just as destructive too I guess And I

Wish Homer should have just They should have done it one more time in this episode I think is blank Like the next three But it's still hilarious Our final Lionel Hutts are coming up We want to savor them This is his last speaking role, correct?

Second to last Realty Bites, last speaking role Oh yeah, that's right We get him back to back, Lionel And then the last time This is our third to last Phil Hartman Because he will appear One more time in season 10

After the Hutts stuff Bart Bart the mother was at it yeah yeah I uh I miss him already I I love Lionel Hutz he was so I mean he's well I guess we'll talk about him realty bites but you really see what they would have done with him going forward too it's true I think Mike Scully would have used him a lot in his years. I mean, Oakley and Weinstein used Phil Harmon a ton. They even gave Troy his own episode. But yes, let's savor, listener, savor some of your last Lionel Hutts here. My attorney, Lionel Hutts, calls your attention to Municipal Code 147C, Protection of Antiquities and Fossils.

That's right. There aren't any fossils here, little girl. Museum folks dug them all up years ago. But what if they miss something? You have to allow an archaeological survey. Who's going to make us? You? Now, hold on, Sid.

Hold on. Maybe we should let the kid dig Could be good publicity Okay, you wanna dig? Be my guest Fine, we'll see you in court Mr. Hutz, we won We

Lisa and Hutz is a fun pairing, too. They're really good. What could have been? What could have been? And I swear to God, the guy in the blue suit, he's wearing a hat in this scene, but in Act 3, he comes back. He is Al Jean. That is a caricature of Al Jean.

Yeah, I could see that. He looks so much like the curly hair and Jean Offender's glasses. That smug smirk on his face. Yeah. I'm kidding. The satisfied smirk of a Harvard graduate. No, I mean, he's a handsome man. He looks handsome there, too.

They bring this up on the commentary, but I just said it anyway. They come up with their burying an angel plan very quickly. Yes. Now, that makes it extra funny. It's that obvious of a plan, right? Yes. One of those guys had it in their back pocket. Like they knew they could use it at some point.

This was the time to spring it on them. She said fossils. Hey, you know, what if we hit a fossil? Yeah. The end. Well, it even fits later when you know the whole plan that they call it the Heavenly Hills Mall. It fits with the angel theming too. And their mascot is a dead angel.

It's a dead angel it's just gonna stay there forever which is uh that's a great decoration just a weird angel skeleton and and uh i the empty briefcase with a sandwich in it that's uh that's a great lionel hutz i think we've seen like shredded newspaper before shredded newspaper was the first one yeah and uh though i like not only is it a sandwich but also an apple core like yeah it's just his lunch from earlier he got hungry already and ate the apple and he's just laughing in lisa's face too like he's just caught up in it he's having a good time it's infectious when he can't be really paid much by Lisa on this either here. No.

The Sentence will be right back. How we use electricity can be smarter, cleaner and greener. At Electric Ireland, we can help guide you there. You see, our new Net Zero Hub has all you need to know about smart meter plans, EV tariffs, solar panels, and much more. Making your usage clearer, your trips greener, your home cozier, and your world brighter. Find our Net zero hope at electricireland.ie hey everybody welcome to the break and we hope you enjoy this one that we recorded back in los angeles with our great friend and wonderful guest ian jones qwerty if you're not yet watching ian's show okko let's be heroes you really should either on hulu the cartoon network app or wherever you can find amazing cartoons.

I love it, and the co-executive producer on the show, Toby Jones, also is great. He was on our previous episodes alongside Ian Jones-Quartey, and you can look forward to a brand new What a Cartoon that has both of them talking all about OKKO. And if you want to hear that episode a week ahead of time and ad-free, as well as next week's Talking Simpsons a week ahead of time and ad free as well as next week's talking Simpsons a week ahead of time and ad free and help pay for awesome trips like this one to Los Angeles, where we can record with cool people. You can support this podcast at patrion.com slash talking Simpsons. By becoming a subscriber to the talking Simpsons network, you get an RSS feed for all of your podcasting needs.

That includes the week early access to every podcast we do and so much more access to over a dozen interviews with many people who worked on the simpsons including our most recent ones jeff martin and josh weinstein not to mention access to dozens of hours of our exclusive limited series talking, where me and Bob go through every episode of The Critic, Talking Futurama, where we do the entire first season of Futurama and launching very, very soon, Talking of the Hill,

where me and Bob are going through the entire first season of King of the Hill. You'll get access to all of that, community podcasts too, tons of stuff. If you subscribe $5 a month to the Talking Simpsons Network at a month to the talking simpsons network at patreon.com slash talking simpsons oh my goodness though do you know what's even better

than subscribing for five dollars a month going up to the premium level for just ten dollars a month at patreon.com slash talking simpsons you not only get access to all of the things I just talked about, you'll get our once a month mega podcast, What a Cartoon Movie. They're twice as long as one of our regular podcasts. Three and a half hours we just did, and the most recent one, where me and Bob talked about a goofy movie. Do you want to know what me and Bob think of one of Disney's most underrated films and a millennial favorite?

You need to sign up at the $10 level right now and give that a listen. And if you do, you'll get access to all of our previous $10 a month content, like our What a Cartoon Movie podcast for Batman, Mask of the Phantasm, Kiki's Delivery Service, and Akira, plus the March one, which is going to be a Don Bluth film

that our patrons are voting on right now. And you'll get access to all of our previous $10 a month premium videos. Please consider it. You definitely want to check out our What a Cartoon Movie podcast for three and a half hours of love for a goofy movie. Now, back to the rest of the show i thought there was some interesting pacing here too that like when lisa says let's go dig up fossils it can almost just start the scene with them digging up but they do a hut scene and then they do a school scene too yeah skinner scene yeah yeah but the the

skinner scene's a lot of a lot of fun in just that uh lisa calls it a favor and skinner just is like darkly reflecting that like oh i shouldn't knew this day would come and uh then it's like a co-punishment uh reward for the kids slash uh bullies in the class that was cute too they need more skinner over the intercom scenes those are funny always fun yeah i do enjoy this once everybody's assigned we get to the fossil site and we get kind of a chain a bully chain gang scene it's it seems like this to really remind me of like the uh the the scully seasons really feel like they play around with the kids a lot more and have the kids in like outfits. Yeah.

Doing adult things. But the kid version of that, like prisoners. Yeah. Uh, and then it feels like a very Cohen joke of, uh, Skinner with the dirt clump.

I, it's just really good. It's so wonderfully boring. This is so exciting. I can't wait to see what we find. I must admit it is rather exciting. Look, here's something right here. It appears to be some sort of rock.

Oh, no, it's just a clump of dirt. Even so, my heart is pounding like a kettle drum. I better sit down for a moment. Prince Skipper Skipple! Prince Michael Skipsker! I found something! It's a spearhead! That's your trowel blade, Ralph.

It fell off the handle. And I found it! Okay, everyone, back to work. You never know when we might uncover a Tyrannosaurus. So Skinner is excited by the idea of finding a rock, but he's a loser that he can't find a rock. Even that, it doesn't work out for him. And you start with rock.

He's excited. It appears to be some kind of rock. And he couldn't even be right about that and and yeah uh fun a fun little ralph scene i like him it's a very well-observed kid like i'm super excited and i can't speak like that's cute i it's really good in animation like you see his trowel and then it disappears from the screen that's when he immediately goes like i found something yeah uh it's uh at least he knew what an arrowhead was i'll give that to ralph that he was at least smart enough to know

that's what people were looking for uh we heard his line in the opening but i think mo is the secret mvp of this episode he has all the most bizarre to shout it from the crowd lines mo mo becomes the moral crusader uh later on in the episode and it's fun when they give those lines to mo he's like the mob ambassador in this episode i i like when he gets to get some leadership do some more in his life and just you know kill rats and contemplate self-harm actually i guess that's true as like a mob lead the leader of an angry mob mo is maybe the best Springfield citizen to choose you know like going to the old mill and all that stuff

that's true he has a history of that leading people against immigrants too or also yeah he led the mob when they had Bobo as well he was the mob leader too he's got simmering anger and he doesn't care if he dies.

So he's the perfect person to lead a murderous mob. And so the digging's not going so well. We have a quick little Raiders of the Lost Ark reference of under the like red sun. It's a nice, it's a nice shot and uh then they follow that raider scene with like the the very like lowbrow but funny just them pouring dirt into martin's pants the way they're stifling their laughter in that scene he's had a long day of digging he's very tired i like when millhouse get is i think he's extra

satisfied because he's getting to pick on somebody for a change we found the one guy below us that we can pick on right oh yeah actually he talked about the kid hierarchy and uh in grade school confidential like that where they rank in right they get They get a reason. Yeah. But yes, everybody's ready to give up except for Lisa. Don't give up. I'm sure we'll find something. Come on. A bottle cap, a shoe, a bar of gold, anything. Everybody, come quick!

Let me through! I got here late! There's a weird Barney ADR where he says, I hope it's not a jet plane. Or as long as it's not a jet plane, I don't know what's happening there. That's great. It's great how instantly everybody shows up in town like they know to be there. Were you guys ever interested in archaeology as a kid?

In as much as like the cold open of Jurassic Park. Yeah. Basically like, oh, cool. That's a job people have. Yeah. I thought it was cool until I learned it was mostly like just brushing small objects gently for hours on end oh i love that but as a kid that was my favorite part of uh i think i watched some some school documentary about archaeology before i saw jurassic park but i could be getting the timeline mixed up but

just the idea of like they get to brush dirt off things and discover stuff that that just seemed really cool to me well as a kid i never uh my parents didn't take us to like an archaeological thing but we did get to go to like um some like old gold mining stuff and just the idea of like panning for gold like something about moving dirt off of something and finding a uh something valuable was always a cool idea to me as a kid. Okay, so when Lisa digs, she finds something pretty interesting. Oh, my goodness. What is it, Lisa?

It looks like a human skeleton, but these other bones look almost like wings. You mean like an angel? Well, obviously that's impossible. Lisa's right, it's an angel. Now that's interesting. I really, really appreciated Homer's act break line there when I was watching, because I too have also felt the pain of like,

oh no, this scene is ending. Gotta put a capper on this. Make sure people come back for the next act. And just him saying, now that's interesting. It's like, perfect. Do you feel like that was added after the fact? It's very possible. It feels like it was.

Yeah, it feels like it was. It feels like it could have ended on the gasp. And then they just freeze frame the angel i i think so i i love how conspicuous it is like that that break the pause before homer speaks is so long that it makes it even more conspicuous the homer like capper line to the c2 i mean the gasp is enough drama to leave you on but maybe they wanted like drama now a joke yeah uh yeah the homer i guess that also goes back to homer was just so bored with the idea of fossil smossles that now he admits this is interesting yeah and also yeah you speak about mo being the leader oh wow i was their leader was their leader oh my god you cracked the code

but but that is most setting the tone right there he's like at least it's right it's an angel and they talk about it on the commentary too but the the the angel skeleton like why why if angels are real would they leave a skeleton if they were to die on earth yeah i i feel like they would just you know burn away or something or god would set to take it back that's why it's like so unexpected that's the like the brilliance of using an item like that instead of just saying oh lisa found the missing link or like you know it's so off the wall that it it's like obviously in real life it would be uh rejected out of hand but watching people really consider this thing is like just entertaining the whole way through it's it's like a conversation piece for the rest of the episode everybody is

talking about it and reacting to it the whole time it's and yeah it's a clever yeah an angel skeleton to you haven't seen in other stuff you have seen like oh we found bigfoot is this bigfoot like lots of shows have their bigfoot episode or like the mark of christ on something right face on something yeah or toast or nachos or whatever there's a bit of shrouded tour to this as well yeah sure and uh so when we come back from the break that's where we have the clip where mo is arguing about if we've you know he tells what it ain't tell us what it am what it am and lisa tries to explain and she's just like spit bawling that it's yeah a caveman who was bitten by two two giant fish and then died and i love that too because uh watching it this time i took that as like a really good satire on the nature of scientific theories

and how uh it they are impossible to believe the first time that they come up with them because the whole point is that they have to refine them based on evidence lisa had like lisa had like no evidence and so her spitballing was ridiculous but with the available evidence like i don't know it's not so bad this is plausible to me yeah plausible enough the the only yeah the only real problem with it is that like he'd have to have two arms because his arms are up there with the fish yeah the but i like her like she's really selling it hard she's like how like she's smiling like see and it's almost like they could see the projection of her imagination to the way they're reacting and uh yeah i you know i like that later they make this about her and Marge. Like that is the kind of interpersonal faith problem, but it almost could have

been like her versus Ned too. Yeah, I guess so. She really bounces off Ned and I know they do a later in later seasons. They did one. I think it's about like prayer in school type thing where it is. It actually does become a lawsuit between her and nad i like this episode but i don't like how the marge stuff starts in act two like i wish there was something about that in act one at least marge being a person of faith not even against lisa i

feel like it just comes out of nowhere and it has to be the main focus of the story after that i i do think you're supposed to be surprised like lisa so maybe that's why it can come right it kind of had to come out of the out of left field for you and lisa because then you would be like oh marge is ideologically opposed to lisa um early on yeah and there's you know it's something um i think maybe the mostly male predominantly male writers team kind of overlook sometimes like there there's a lot of stories to be mined in lisa and marge mother daughter stuff but it doesn't really come out all that much in the series up to this point in it anyway right i think the closest was in the uh chanel dress episode like they they have a few scenes together yeah i mean they love

homer and lisa stories for sure that's true well they're very sweet so i get it like it's uh uh but yeah there's there's more stuff to be explored with marge and lisa which i so i'm glad they put that in this episode but uh i mean ned is so such an ardent believer he actually kind of trans he's one of the most transformed by the angel in this episode too right but uh while they're arguing about what the angel is it also comes down to like who owns this angel too yeah oh i gotta say lisa it sounds like you're straining to do some explaining yeah everyone's heard of angels but who's ever heard of a neanderthal it could be anything it could be a mutant from the nuclear plan oh Oh, fiddle-faddle. Everyone knows our mutants have flippers.

Oops, I've said too much. Smithers use the amnesia ray. You mean the revolver, sir? Precisely. Be sure to wipe your own memory clear when you're finished. Now, regardless of what this thing is, it's a priceless scientific find, so our most pressing concern now

is determining who owns such a valuable skeleton, and I'd like to suggest that I do. I'd like to hear from Lionel Hutz. It's a thorny legal issue, all right. I'll need to refer to the case of finders versus keepers. Oh, we can work this out, friends. In the spirit of sharing, let's say we simply place the sacred bones and who shot mr burns part two wasn't it that that said i want to hear from such a mel yes that's at the end of part four word or something like that yeah yeah ned said uh i'd like to hear

from sideshow mel let me get i look here for a lot of lots yeah no uh it was an intentional callback that cohen points out on the commentary he he meant to have it like all right it's now sideshow mel's turn to ask to hear from somebody this is this is a really good use of the springfield mob i think in this episode it's a pared down amount of characters you never actually see like everybody at once but you see like the important people poking their heads out of the mob and i feel like that's the something you can only do after like nine seasons of television and and there's they're all like pretty effective jokes every single one you get a nice run of of uh mob humor yeah and you get to see you like wigum as technically law and order

just like going along with it and laughing along with everybody i like hibbert hibbert rarely gets to represent science in the show like often it's frank and actually frank is uh kind of absent from this episode for such a sciencey episode there's a really later on you do see frank in a crowd scene and he's not on the side of science it's it's very strange and it's odd yeah well i think i think maybe he slipped his uh his model sheet slipped into a stack of papers it wasn't supposed to be in the extras pile yeah uh well my my head cannon now is that he was there undercover to do observations for gould steve and she gold uh i think we all knew homer was going to steal that angel for sure it was just waiting for homer to take it i they're starting

to sell out the character of hibbert a bit more in these seasons which which is funny but i like him being super serious and kind of a school like again it's like one of those things where you know obviously you can't tip it too far because now hibbert is basically the same character as dr nick right um but i do really like him being good at what he does and serious but also just crooked uh like that is really funny i mean i think he had the tube three years ago the tube that would suck you away to dance for a foreign family somewhere yes he had his hmo yeah yeah no he's he's self-interested but smart i do like that exactly yeah i think self-interested but smart is is funnier than incompetent doctor you know which they would eventually go towards that's why they

could kill off nick riviera because like we kind of we can do all these jokes with dr hibbert now but he survived that right he did he came back i don't like that i gotta say i just i mean i i love the character nick riviera i was sad to see him go but kill somebody and have a manner in the movie it has to stay this uh like he has to stay dead forever if you're gonna kill somebody off we'll get to it yeah that i totally forgot that amnesia ray joke i love that it's so great i mean it wastes like 30 seconds but it's great he well the idea that like burns often tells him to just shoot people, and Smithers does it, apparently.

Or one of his past assistants, he's done that before. Yes, he's definitely killed. And he made the other guy erase his memory, too. And I don't know. The joke comes after they must have animated it and written it. Men in Black came out months before this like the summer before this episode aired and the amnesia ray is central to men in black but the mouth movements fit so i don't think they rewrote it but i so i wonder like what came first like were

they inspired by men in black or is it just an interesting coincidence yeah yeah maybe they read the malibu comic that's true well i mean the ads were huge like even in january of 97 i think they were already advertising it hard that uh men in black i remember uh we were talking over dinner we were talking about comic convention memories and i remember going to a comic uh when the comic convention i went to i think it was megacon this is such like a pre-internet story a pre-youtube story one room was just they show trailers for upcoming movies because you can't see these like anytime you want and i remember it was like two or men in black one and like Evolution and all these other movies that were so, I was just into any new science fiction special effects movie was coming out.

I watched the trailers a million times. So yeah, Homer takes the angel and he's going to put it in his reference closet. Oh yeah. It's an amazing closet. I did write down all the references here. Oh good. So we've got the tri-corner hat and crier bell, which means he stole it from Ned.

Those were Neds, not homers. The family heirlooms, yeah. Oh, we've got the Billy beer from the auto show. Yeah. Which he just kept in his jacket. So he drank Billy Bear twice in the series. Yeah. He's got his boxing gloves from his Dreader Tatum fight.

He's got his Grammy. He won for the B-Sharps. We've got his sugar bag from... Yeah, the sugar bag was in there. Yeah. And we've got his Colonel Homer hat, a box of Mr. Sparkle. The animatronic Itchy and Scratchy heads are there, too. So they took heads back with them. They must have walked back after they got those two tickets.

Here are two heads. His spacesuit helmet, the Mr. Plow jacket, which I thought he kept in the bedroom closet, but I guess he moved down there. His Dancing Homer shirt, a bowling trophy from the Pin Pals, and what I believe is the fishing hat from General Sherman I think you're right, yeah That might be the oldest

If not Danzen Homer, that's the oldest reference in there Yeah, Danzen Homer I think would be first Or the oldest I thought like the fish on the plaque was in there too Oh yeah, the tiny fish was in there That's right, that's right, okay So that and the hat were both in there Mr. Plowjacket, yeah

I think if they wanted to get older They they should have a Santa hat in there. Oh, yeah, they could. That would be a good reference. It was funny seeing him go for the closet because sometimes that closet is stairs. Oh, yeah. You think like, oh, is it going to go in the basement where there's also references? I don't know. I like that reference clause that they, you know,

Oakley and Weinstein definitely were celebrating the history of the series. But in this one, we just had it in the Cartridge family, too, when they're reading off his background check and all of his crazy things. I think they're definitely in season nine feeling like, really feeling the weight of the history of the show yeah that's true and uh yeah homer homer to prove these things have worth even just drinks the beer in front of the part which very i i guess billy beer is the only beer that stays good unrefrigerated for 30 years yeah uh which again you gotta look just go back to the auto show episode we explain billy

beer great detail uh well i guess shorthand it is bill carter's uh beer branded back when presidents had hillbilly brothers yeah remember that the fun brothers i miss that but uh yes so we uh so homer though can't put the angel in the closet He puts it in the garage instead and This is when Homer gets an idea Coming up next An hilarious boat giveaway Scam that Springfield's

Dumbest criminals Sounds like good Watch it Hey there Mar Marge. Just brought the kids over to share a prayer with the blessed angel, if it's okay with you. Get your own angel, you moocher. Thanks anyway, Homer. Oh, hello, Agnes.

Sorry to trouble you, but I'm going in for surgery tomorrow, and I wondered if I could rub the angel with my foot for good luck. It's foot surgery. Hey, I'm trying to eat here. Beat it, peg leg. Jackass. March. Hey, you want to see the angel?

Come on, Homer, I just want a quick look-see. Pay a buck. A buck, eh? That gives me an idea. Fifty cents, please. When that gag happened, I thought it was going to be the go-away sign from Gorgons and Elephants. It's a similar joke. It is similar.

They're both very funny takes on that same premise. Good setup. Yeah, it's a branching joke that could go in a few directions so in this case homer the good idea is to ask for less than a dollar half as much and the uh the agnes exchange is so funny like the cheat i just love the pacing of like i i'm going for surgery tomorrow and i want to be blessed by foot. It's foot surgery. That clarification is just so unneeded and hilarious. And a return of the Marge from Twisted World.

That could have been Agnes' catchphrase. Yeah, it was really good. And Agnes just being named just conspicuously is great too. Yeah, and they even draw her with a cane she isn't normally wearing using i think because of her foot surgery i would assume i also have a good gag of just opening the door and there's thousands of people behind it or dozens of people behind it instantly homer's so cruelly yelling at everybody to just go away and yeah so homer though goes all in on the angel I mean technically he never calls it an angel Here's the angel See the angel

It's my angel No one else is next to the rakes Dad it's not fair to claim this thing as an angel There's no proof of that No one's calling it an angel Lisa If you look carefully you'll notice I never once used the word angel. What about that sign right there? That's a typo.

Just let me take it to the museum for one day. They can do scientific tests and prove it's not an angel. Oh, no, no. We could lose out on bags and bags of money. It's sacrilegious, I tell you. That's another great exchange. don't i still feel bad anytime homard lies directly to lisa but he's got money fee he's got angel fever he's got to sell he's yeah yeah he's got a strike well it's hot and i like in his song that he makes sure to say it's

by the rakes and he's not gonna move the rakes in his uh in his garage no it's just where they are how many rakes do you need? You got to keep Sideshow Bob away. That's right. That's the only way. Yeah. Put them all in your driveway. But so Lisa takes, though, secretly a toe off of the angel.

And so testing a tiny sample of it, that's what reminds me most of the Shroud of Turin. Because I watched a whole special on testing the Shroud of Turin which happened in school I watched it it happened in like the 80s or 90s well so they took a piece of it and carbon dated it or something? Yes yeah they I believe it's the Catholic Church that owns it

and they didn't want it to they wouldn't allow it to be tested for the longest time because you have to destroy a part of it to test it that's how you carbon date stuff uh but they finally allowed like a like tiny tiny like smaller than a stamp size piece of it to be cut off and then tested the carbon dating though put it at the 1300s you know more than a millennia after the death of jesus christ so though the on the counter to that is some people say like well carbon dating you know records are spotty at best yeah their biggest

stance is like well it was in an area where there was a volcano once and that could have added extra carbon and it messes with it so but most apparently most scientists in it believe the results to be accurate on the Shroud of Turin. So, I am sorry. It is apparently a hoax, everyone. It's as real as this angel bones. Lisa goes to the very well paid for Natural History Museum. They can afford a whole whale, a living whale. That whale fell on Jay Sherman.

Right? That's right, yeah. yeah nothing's gonna stop me now dropped on him i feel like the joke that joke with the whale being alive must have gotten cut in syndication oh yeah yeah seeing it this time i was like oh it was like a pleasant surprise it's an easy cut yeah it's uh it's more of a tone setter. But I love just the whale sound. It's also, I like that sound because it shows the whale isn't in pain. He's like, it's a good life.

Yeah, he's doing okay. Don't feel bad for the whale. He's all right. And yes, we have a special guest this episode. Oh, no. An excuse to play, sadly, I'm sorry, the death jingle. It's been a while. Death stalks you at every turn. There it is, death.

Stephen Jay Gould. Died relatively young at age 60 in 2002. Yeah, it's rather sad when he uh when he passed away i think it wasn't the first time but it was one of the early times where when a guest passed away they would put like an in memoriam on a current episode oh yeah yeah and and he was one of them in 2002 which would have been the uh the season i believe a season 13 episode was one it went up on and uh yeah it was it was a big i mean it's uh he was a celebrity scientist back in the day he was uh the uh what was the guy now neil neil degrasse tyson yeah

he was a neil degrasse tyson of the 90s with less issues yeah uh at least he also taught a class that cohen took in at harvard right yeah he mentions that on the commentary i think which wasn't like he didn't even write gould into the story i bet i bet in his original script because colin loves frank so much i bet it was just frank who was doing the testing frank is a major character in like many colin episodes or even his treehouse of horror this year was was starts with old frank oh yeah i guess so uh but instead it's steven jigald who at the time was like he's phd uh popular paleontologist uh and he like had a ton of like pop science

articles that would get like published in real magazines so he was he was a cool guy and uh i found a quote of his that i really like that was got i read on twitter a while ago but it's it's a quote of his on science versus classism i am somehow less interested in the weight and convolutions of einstein's brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops i've seen that a lot recently actually yeah it's a cool quote i like that one and he actually said that, right? Yes. Yeah. This is, well, I mean, you know, I've searched it on a couple sites to get that exact one.

But I mean, I guess any quote can be faked. Facts, schmacks. But I like that he brought that kind of, you know, moral vision to it, too. That just like, oh, I think people do worship Einsteinstein just a little too i mean he did great stuff it's not to say einstein's bad but there's more to science than that and it's my he makes a good point about like we're missing out by being so classist or racially racist or whatever in our history so many people have been just denied opportunities to have been that einstein too well why why don't we hear Stephen Jay Gould here himself. Astonishing. Simply

astonishing. One of the most singular specimens I've encountered in all my distinguished career. But enough about my work. What did you want to show me, Lisa? It's a bonus scraping from that skeleton I found. Oh yeah, the so-called angel. The whole thing's preposterous

of course. Quite preposterous, of course. Quite preposterous. How we use electricity can be smarter, cleaner and greener. At Electric Ireland, we can help guide you there. You see, our new Net Zero hub has all you need to know about smart meter plans, EV tariffs, solar panels, and much more. Making your usage clearer, your trips greener, your home cozier, and your world brighter. Find our net zero hub at electricireland.ie.

But no one will believe me until I can prove what it really is. Can't you do a DNA test or something? Certainly. I'll have the results by tomorrow. Oh, thank you so much. Um, you know, I can't afford to pay you. I didn't become a scientist for financial gain. Whatever little money you have will be just fine. I like how they even pause for a little bit like he's waiting for like,

come on, get the money. There's a great sight gag in that scene where they pan by a uh barber's jar of combs oh in the foreground i missed that yeah yeah oh that's great i i love the i i also love steve newgould like he his voice is great like the it's kind of like you know new york accent but talking about uh science is a fun voice to hear. There's a trilobite drawn in the background. Did you listen to the commentary? David Cohen's trilobite story is so funny

up there. I think you've probably heard it before. It's the Nicolas Cage one. Nick Cage outbids him on all the trilobites and he couldn't get one of them. That's hidden in some castle somewhere at this point. Yeah, exactly. He lost the rights to. We'll never see that. Again, I feel like I've told this story multiple times, but it's just amazing

to me that like he, Nick Cage owned one of the like almost none in existence, incredibly rare action comics number one. Oh yeah. And it just got lost because somebody broke into one of his houses. He didn't go to that often and, and stole it among other things.

And he doesn't know when it was stolen. Cause he didn't visit the place as much. Like, what is that now? You've got to figure it's being, I mean, that would be a hard one to resell. It'd be like the Mona Lisa or whatever.

Cause there's just there. There's not that many of them. Yeah. And sometimes a new one is discovered and you can sell it like, oh, I found a new one. But, you know, that's this cover for stealing. I have a plan to steal the action. And yeah, it's him also like talking,

like Gould talking up his own success there, how awesome his research is. When I first saw this episode i did not know who steven j gold was i didn't either yeah and i thought it was an original character made up for the show because he was so funny uh like so many of his lines were just really good uh he just came off as like oh a super smart uh blowhard who is maybe a little crooked yeah you know i actually it's a good point i did i didn't know who he was but i had assumed he i he had to be a real person because he didn't sound like one of the voice actors yeah

yeah but i did i didn't uh but i didn't know he i couldn't tell you who he was as a kid though and back then i couldn't just go to wikipedia to find out i think all tv simpsons told me after this air ah what a helpful guys yeah that's good when they weren't being mad about things there was information about things this episode sucks but this is who steven jiggles yeah that's true then we go we go back to the garage uh we also get to see lenny and carl i love their when they're mad at each other season eight is when the schism happened between something something bad went down with them they'll make up they'll make up eventually but uh this i also wondered if why they didn't the pacing does the pacing feel a

little weird to you that they like they introduced steve j gould and then immediately close that plot line in the next scene you know i forgot how little of him there was in this uh this episode it was surprising i i had a memory that he came came back at the end and he does but yeah the way they close this off so quickly but they need to do it so that they can step the plot out further that, oh, nobody's really sure. Yeah, yeah. And when you know the reveal at the end that he just didn't test it, it's because this episode would have ended right here if he tested like, yeah, this was plastic. Yeah, yeah.

It's not real. There's a cut line that they talk about, right, in the commentary where his, we'll get to it at the end, but he says, I didn't do the test. It doesn't make any sense. There's no motivation there. motivation there but the cut line i think is i had better things to do yeah which makes sense but the fact that he didn't do the test doesn't make any sense because he doesn't give any like motivation it just seems very arbitrary i never liked that until i heard that about the cut line i i felt like it always just came off that, oh, he was lazy. Yeah. It just felt like a kind of a cheap, like, we didn't know what to do with him sort of joke. But I don't know.

Because science can't have answers here or else the episode's over. Frankly, he should not be in this story at all. But he's a cool guest star. They needed all the buzz they'd get from having the Stephen Jay Gould on. But, yes, science has no answers. I say it's the angel of peace, you idiot. I say it's the angel of mercy, you jerk. Excuse me.

I took a piece of this skeleton for scientific analysis. Soon we'll have all the facts. You did what? You know what? I don't like that. Facts are meaningless. You can use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true. Facts, Max.

Ah, here's Dr. Gould now. What were the results, Professor? Inconclusive. Inconclusive? Then why'd you come running up like that? Can I use your bathroom? Well, it appears science has faltered once again in the face of overwhelming religious evidence.

Go home, science girl. I am home. Good, stay there. Oh, another great Mo line. Mo's got like five amazing lines in this episode. Good, stay there. Mo's really doing good this one. It's a great...

I love Lovejoy's line there, too. It's such a great reversal of like, once again, science falls in the face of overwhelming religious evidence. I'm sorry. I like how Mo doesn't back down when she's like, I am home. Good. Stay there.

He got what he wanted. Yeah. He's perfectly happy with that result and he just turns his back on her to he's just like good. Yeah, it's also great. It's such a great Mr. X to just tell you he runs up breathlessly

like he's in a if it's in a movie, just say like it is an angel. Oh my God, but didn't said he just needed to pee pee for we're lucky yeah that's true lisa's pissed at all these dumb yokels who believe in an angel skeleton and that's when we get the introduction of the whole marge bit oh those morons make me so angry maybe so but i'd appreciate it if you didn't call them morons. But they are morons.

What grown person could believe in angels? Well, your mother, for one. You? But you're an intelligent person, Mom. There has to be more to life than just what we see, Lisa. Everyone needs something to believe in. It's not that I don't have a spiritual side. I just find it hard to believe there's a dead angel hanging in our garage. My poor Lisa. If you can't make a leap of faith now and then, well, I feel sorry for you.

Don't feel sorry for me, Mom. I feel sorry for you. That's harsh. I love the clever bit of writing that they did because Marge never specifies that she believes that this skeleton is an angel. She mentions a general belief in angels, which she could have as a person of faith.

But even when Lisa rejoins that well you can't believe that this thing is an angel she just still does not specify that i believe that that is an angel therefore placing marge in like it does help grow the story a little bit into something that is purely about the nature of faith and not about this one particular thing marge probably doesn't believe that this thing is actually an angel she just believes angels exist in general which i think is which i think is like just a really clever trick of the writing and she's resisting joining the mob like she's not part of the mob she's she's living a normal life and i think ultimately joining the mob like she's not part of the mob she's she's living

a normal life and i think ultimately believing this is an angel does not cause any harm yeah it makes homer richer if anything but no one is uh doing this for any nefarious purposes or you know using it to justify any weird behavior or immoral behavior yeah outside of homer yes yes that's homer's the one person now i well on this you know i just remembered an episode that does explore this topic a little more later it is when lisa converts to buddhism in the right here episode that one is marge is the one who takes it the most personally that lisa leaves their faith you know maybe this episode gave them the idea of like we could go more with this like faith off between the two of them and that's

another episode name later but i did have a sting of familiarity of feeling like i had been that dismissive to someone who's just like i feel sorry for you like right it's kind of it's just has a certain smug satisfaction to lisa that i'm like that's that's mean and and i i i feel like i definitely had was like that even if you're on I feel like I definitely was like that. Even if you're on Lisa's side in this episode, that scene will make you think like, that is, I like the intentions are pure, but the execution not so much.

Just like, are you doing this to be smug or to prove a point? Or what is your ultimate goal with this talk with your mother? And it's nice because, yeah, Marge is maybe the only person in this episode who is approaching the existence of this angel in a completely nonjudgmental way. Not even saying that, oh, the townspeople's belief in the angel is good.

She's just saying, some people believe in things. And it's a shame if you can't believe in something. She doesn't even mention specifically God or religion or this angel. Um, so she's actually being pretty nonjudgmental, which makes it all the more devastating when Lisa dumps on her. Yeah. Yeah.

And, uh, and so then we have our return of smart line. Yeah. Do you guys know which was the most recent appearance of Smartline before this one? I looked it up. All right. Well, it was Homer the Vigilante.

It's been a long time. That's quite a while. Yeah. I feel like they didn't need a framing device just to have this thing happen anymore. Yeah. I mean, Kent Brockman would just have people on his show to talk to anyway. But I miss Smartline as a set piece like it's such a funny especially like parody of the like ted koppel talking head tv show and lisa that lisa's

been on it many times before her thanks ken is very cute yeah he said, I guess also, you know, in Lisa the Simpson, she will appear on CQB. Right, yeah. Though for a very different reason. But yes, Bart is the only one who hasn't. Bart and Maggie haven't been on Smartline yet. But Homer, Marge, and Lisa have now appeared on it. Next on Smartline, the Springfield Angel Controversy. Our guest tonight making her 13th appearance on Smartline,

Miss Lisa Simpson. Kent. Miss Simpson, how can you maintain your skepticism in spite of the fact that this thing really, really looks like an angel? I just think it's a fantasy. If you believe in angels,

then why not unicorns or sea monsters or leprechauns? Oh, that's a bunch of baloney, Lisa. Everyone knows leprechauns are extinct. Look, you can either accept science and face reality, or you can believe in angels and live in a childish dream world. Science? What's science ever done for us? TV off. Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends. Well, I say there are some things we don't want to know. Important things. Enough talk.

It's smashing time. So Mo has a Kinect. Yeah. He has like the first Kinect. I wrote in my notes like, did Simpsons predict Alexa? Write that article, Henry. Perfect. But I mean, I think there were,

they were starting to introduce technology like that in the 90s like in popular science you maybe would have heard of a tv controlled by voice it's one of those jokes that was a joke about ridiculous technology that that no one would ever need that is now just like our normal lives i i didn't. At first, I didn't like having an Alexa. I still feel like my every conversation is being listened to. It comes on during recording sometimes. I unplugged the living

room one. That doesn't happen anymore. That's good, but it is in the bedroom one. It's become so easy to be like, oh, timer set for 30 minutes. Echo timer set for 30 minutes, echo set time for 30 minutes or echo. What's the weather today? Like it just,

it is easy. I, those are the only things I would, it's faster to do it than pulling up my phone and typing it in. But that's kind of it. I still wouldn't tell, say like echo, order me food or echo by this thing.

But can you say TV off? You you know it's not attached to the tv yet i don't have a smart tv you can't do what i mean i've seen in the echo commercials you can attach it to your light somehow i see make it turn out the lights but it is also like it is literally a listening device like that's that's what it is so in that way it's creepy sure and also yeah i like ned he's kind of complaining about spoiler culture important thing yeah important things and also that agnes is ready to be violent at a moment's notice i guess the foot surgery worked out right yeah yeah she's she's fit as a fiddle she's painless yeah uh and yeah i have to say lisa here her speech there is basically the same smug speech like bill maher gives at the end of his religious movie.

That movie's bad and he's a bad person. I'm going to say it right now. So it's hard to like Lisa in those moments because she's being so smug. I can see why the townsfolk got a bit angry at that. The thing, though, I feel like, and this is sort of like a thing about Lisa and where the character might get taken, but I do feel like Lisa's smugness here is very precocious. And it's heightened in a way that a kid would be smug and precocious.

She hasn't yet become truly uh looking down on everybody yeah it's kind of it's kind of like this nice i don't know there's a nice balance where yeah she's being smug but it's like funny how bitter she is about it you know definitely it's the kind of naivete from of a child of like i have all the answers i read some books yeah but all right that was me like that's it is the i i don't like it out of recognition of yeah well the way like you know she even says to dr gould like quite preposterous like like that you know she's kind of trying to like, you know, jump on this wave of skepticism. Oh, yeah.

She's posturing a bit. Yeah. That's true. Yeah. It's just, it's really cute because I think, yeah, we all have gone through a version of that where you're just like, I'm going to freak out some squares and tell them everything they believe isn't true. Years have Thanksgiving really happy. Uh, I, I love,

I do love Ken stance and like, but it really, really looks like an angel. And, uh, and as we all know, leprechauns are actually jockeys. That's right.

Oh, that's true. Yes. It's coming up. So they, they aren't extinct. What do you think of that one? And it was that,

is that one jockey yeah saddle sore galactica that was up there as one of the ones that really got me between that and dude where's my ranch i think those were like some of the ones that really got me to kind of take a step back from the show and sort of stop labeling it as my favorite show of all time and stuff like that yeah on the commentary you can hear matt graining here for the first time or watch it for the yes yeah and he's like it's not so bad he had heard he hated it yeah the uh i'm looking forward to doing that one again i think i won't be as harsh on it as i was then that's the thing i i feel like if i revisited those episodes i wouldn't be so upset about them.

But at the time, I don't know, for some reason, like as like a thing that I've done and tell me how awful I am for doing it. Stop saying that, people. It's great. Oh, no. I mean, look, I can take it. Look, I was right there doing it to The Simpsons. So I feel like if I could dish it out so hard as a teen, I can definitely take some bitter teens getting angry. Well, that, you know, some of the stuff you worked on,

like it has been on long enough where a kid could have watched it at 10 and is now 15. And they've become like, we were 15 when this episode aired and we started to turn on The Simpsons too. Like, yeah, absolutely. And i think even it's even shorter now um i think like when we were kids tv shows were institutions but i think nowadays like you know a tv show might be something you see on streaming that only exists for 10 episodes and you might think it's the coolest thing one month and then next month you're like i don't watch that. That stinks. You know, there's way too many pieces of media. And also I mean, what kid is sitting down to watch TV? If

we're lucky, it's just on a screen in the background while they're playing Fortnite. Oh my God, I was thinking of Fortnite. Yeah. This is not a Fortnite stream, sir. Who are these characters? I don't know how I got on this list for the promoted tweets,

but I'm getting a lot of promoted tweets that are pro Fortnite players, and it's a play of the game, but I believe they're promoted by other brands because it auto plays an ad first, but it's just so weird that I'm like, how did I get on this Fortnite list, Twitter? Why do you think I missed? I don't follow any Fortnite players. This is not a

judgment on playing for it i'd be i'd be pretty disingenuous as i was like oh i grew up playing video games all the time but now this fortnight these kids are playing video games wrong yeah again i mean it comes it comes right back to you know i could dish it out back then like but i couldn't take it you know i'm like this is the future of video gaming playing you know whatever ps1 games and you know if i can't look at a kid playing fortnite and be like well that's the future yeah then i would be a terrible person uh like minecraft is old now that's an old game and minecraft similar to what you're talking about about people growing out of things minecraft is one of those things like there's a generation of slightly older kids now who

played minecraft to death when they were in elementary school and now they're like minecraft is terrible it's the worst thing that ever existed about a decade old now yeah yeah and they talk about how it went downhill and how terrible it is now. Wow. So, you know, it happens to everything. Yeah. I feel like in the generation before us, were they saying, like, MASH has jumped the shark?

Because MASH isn't how I remember. Like I said, I think they probably were just on a slower timeline, you know, like you could, a thing could stay around for longer cause it was expected to. Yeah. So the mob begins, they are smashing it up.

You get to hear the planet of the apes music, which is perfect. Like very popular on the series. Yeah. I mean, it's Fox music. They can get it for free apparently, but,

uh, but it's also perfectly placed because like among many things the plane apes movie is a first one is a commentary on the scopes monkey trial right so that you're in a similar area for this episode i do wonder what mo's original line was because when he gets crushed by that thing it's uh it's pretty bad yeah i noticed that yeah why because he's walking around the rest of the episode, too. That is true. Why have him say he's paralyzed?

Don't diagnose your own paralysis, by the way. It's a bad idea. I'm guessing that's why he is not actually paralyzed, because he misdiagnosed it. Right. Maybe he was just in shock. Let's say that. And we get to see Robbie the Automaton. Yeah, it was cool to see Robbie robbie the automaton yeah it was

robbie will appear later this is first appearance actually he'll be in this little wiggy later on in the season that's right choking principal skinner there's a man in a tree controlling him right or no okay yeah and then we also get the christians i really love that the christian science reading room is getting burned down by the christians that's a great, that is a good guy. And yeah, after seeing all this, Lisa thinks it's time to end it all.

Technocrats are learning a lesson in humility tonight as angel supporters lay waste to Springfield's scientific institutions. Ugh! I wish I never found those stupid bones! It's time to put an end to this. Bart, I'm borrowing your blue crowbar.

Good old Bluey. Hey, she's going to smash the angel. Somebody stop her. It's gone. Oh, no. This can't be happening. What the hell are we going to do with 10,000 angel ashtrays? I could take up smoking You damn well better

I think it's both act break jokes Yeah Homer's a good joke device You gotta lean on him I like it Yeah Homer's sitting on the couch yelling Somebody stop her

It's great All just standing back And they really don't stop her she could have completely destroyed it by the time they get in there the uh i i also this and the glow sticks i just love that homer buys all these like cheap things that you would you can slap any label on though the glow sticks like don't even have an angel picture on it they're just glow just some glow sticks i uh my parents would not buy those for me when we go to like disney on ice or whatever because and they were right they were wasting

money i'd use them at the ice rink and then never again yeah so we go the act break we come back uh lisa is confronted by the bob who now they're convinced she destroyed it which again when you know the ending of this it's pretty impressive that the mall guys were able to break into the garage and steal the famous angel skeleton without anybody seeing it's a pretty solid plan and knowing that they definitely planned on all of that happening town idiot to steal it yeah i mean maybe they've been casing the simpsons house for months for days now and planning to break in. Like they just finally figured it out.

Or I mean, Homer would definitely not leave it secure. That's not what Homer would do. But yeah, I, so when they confront her, it's a, it's a bit harsh to hear Ned color,

the unbeliever. He's transformed quite a lot from, from angel fever. We've come for the angel Homer. It's not safe with the unbeliever. It's gone! We're too late! Little girl, what have you done with our precious angel? Nothing! Someone must have stolen

it. Looks to me like Lisa Simpson found something science couldn't explain, so she had to destroy it. Well, that's all the evidence I need. Arrest the girl! She didn't do anything! she had to destroy it. Now that's all the evidence I need. Arrest the girl. What? Hey, she didn't do anything.

Give her a nice seal. Something in C-Block. I think this is her first official arrest in the series. Oh, she'd be right, yeah. She is now the fourth. Nope. Well, nope. Maggie was never arrested for nobody would kidnap a baby.

Baby Texas. She is the fourth family member to be arrested in the series. Homer many times over, but let's just say when he got shot, he was a suspect in Burns. Marge for stealing the bourbon. Bart as the kingpin

of the mafia. And now Lisa here. I just love Wiggum saying that's all the evidence i need he just busts out the cup yeah uh and then we get this next scene which is such a wonderful one of my favorite mr great and i love the screaming blue-haired lawyer yes yeah lisa simpson you are charged with destruction of an historic curiosity, a misdemeanor. But in a larger sense, this trial will settle the age-old question of science versus religion.

Let the opening statements commence. Your Honor, over the coming weeks and months, we intend to prove Lisa Simpson willfully destroyed. There's the angel! I find the defendant not guilty. As for science versus religion, I'm issuing a restraining order. Religion must stay 500 yards from science at all times. Gotta let my fake out so much. That's really good.

Watching this again, I forgot that there was a courtroom scene in it and then listening to the commentary and finding out that the courtroom scene was apparently much larger aspect of the original story yeah yeah it it totally leads you there in the plot like they the third act could easily that's why it says you're great mystery because the third act could easily just be the trial of lisa simpson but then when he says weeks and months you're wondering how can they do this in three minutes like months of trials well that's like it also feels like a parody on how in not just simpsons but in television court cases last

an afternoon they do not last as long as they do in real life uh and so they point out like no this will be months it's a court case yeah uh and and yeah i mean the trial of like uh suitor even super promotes it like this is the battle of science versus religion we're gonna figure it out at this trial and just though it's it's perfect that it's lenny to lenny of all people like it's a cancel no had too many lines yeah he gets another good one right right after this right up here on a zebra oh yeah that line is really good the they climb up the mountain and see the menacing message from the angel i uh when you guys were kids did you ever get into like doomsday fears or dread or anything huh not really i didn't i was more into aliens and uh ghosts and stuff

yeah i liked alien stuff yeah i did uh i did a little bit i uh definitely would watch uh occasionally i would turn to like christian television in the like sunday morning evangelist stuff and there was that there was one that stuck with me is like in the year 2000 that's the end of the world give us some money like that was their their stance and so that really it scared me for a little bit as a kid and definitely i had some y2k fears like sort of related to that this reminds this whole premise here of the end of the world being given to them or the rapture maybe even it uh do you guys remember in 2011 when they the one guy heavily promoted the rapture was coming harold camping was it like a 2012 thing i was thinking of that yeah no this uh 2012 was also done but this was uh maybe it was only in i swear it was i felt like it was heavily promoted at least all over california

there was uh this religious leader let's call him harold camping who was this like he self-described biblical scholar who said he had heavily studied the bible and then he knew when the rapture was going to come and it was going to be may 20th 2011 and for like months and months there were billboards like on the way there was at least one billboard ad on the way to my office that advertised like the end is near the rapture's coming what are you gonna do and so it then became like kind of a joke in the office like well tomorrow's the rapture what are you gonna do and i never really believed in it but i not unlike lisa the in this episode i did have a moment on the day of like but what if this was the right but that guy was also 90 years old he

was an old man pretty convenient for the world to end when you're 90 yeah and well i'm done the world should be done too well when you dug into it more he had apparently like 10 years before predicted the rapture already and he's like oh wait i misread this one bit but now i know it's 2011 and i only remember the day too because it was the day the macho man randy savage passed away oh wow that was the so maybe that's what it was it uh it was the rapture just for him yeah now that's what happened in the office it changed the dialogue we had been talking all about what if it was the end of the world. And then it's like, oh, no, Randy Savage died.

Like, all right, let's talk about that. But yes, the end is near. Look, a message. The end will come at sundown. Wait a second. I don't like the sound of that. I'm scared, Daddy. Too scared to even wet my pants.

It's okay, son. Just relax and it'll come. Even Lisa Simpson must now agree we have witnessed a miracle. Hardly anyone could have written that. Oh, Angel, listen not to this child of Satan. Reverend, I gotta admit, this doomsday warning has me just a smidge twitterpated. Oh, now be calm, Ned. But be afraid also, tremendously afraid, for the day of reckoning is upon us.

Reckoning, no! That's another perfect turn joke. Be calm, but be afraid. Be afraid also also tremendously afraid uh and the the more i think about it the weirder it is how uh wigum is instructing ralph and how to pee his quite a scam by the mall people too that they then also have to put it back on top of a hill which i wonder too this hill it reminds me of the top of the hill where they sing k sarah sarah yeah it's true um yeah when we were gonna watch this episode again someone who heard us was like oh the one where they all uh go into the bunker

at the end right and we're like no that's another one yeah but yeah it's got it's got a very similar feel to it yeah it's uh you know this is a maybe this is a reason why like the charm started to wear off for us a little on simpsons even in a great episode like this you have seen so many that you think like well this story is not an intentional copy or anything right but it does remind me of a thing i saw the simpsons do already like another one yeah yeah and when when you get that feeling it does kind of remove a little of the charm i suppose but uh but this this is funny enough on its own for sure the only scene in this that really like kind of goes thud for me just a little bit is the cut to

the pope just because i'm like what it just feels weird to leave springfield for like one second in the show i guess it's just another uh mis misdirect cutaway where you think it's going to become, you know, international news and it just doesn't. Yeah, yeah, that is a good point. It does work for that. But meanwhile, everyone else is preparing for the end of the world.

This could be our last day together, my love. How about a farewell romp in the garden of earthly delights? Oh, Edna, my sweet buttercup, you read my mind. How about a farewell romp in the garden of earthly delights? Oh, Edna, my sweet buttercup, you read my mind. Just give me 20 minutes or so to finish these tardy slips. Why are we getting dressed up, Mom? Are we going to Black Angus?

Well, you might say we're going to the best steakhouse in the whole universe. So we're not going to Black Angus. Will you leave me alone? It's bad enough you're making me go to your stupid judgment day. Please, Lisa. I don't know exactly what's gonna happen, but I really wish we could make peace before sunset.

Nothing is going to happen, Mom. I hate to disappoint you, but the world is not coming to an end. It's a fun exchange. I like Bart. Okay, so the world is not coming to an end. It's a fun exchange. I like Bart. Okay, so I've never been to Black Angus. I haven't either. There's a Black Angus right near where me and Toby work.

And I pass it every day thinking, is this where this joke came from? Because it's right in Burbank basically where a lot in a very heavily densely populated area and i just look at it all the time i have been there yeah it's not great i it's it's just kind of rare i even go to a steakhouse and so and but there i looked on a map like the nearest one to my home is like in san jose area or something it's it's miles and miles away it's like an oddly specific joke yeah i don't even think it's like a very it's maybe is it the most well-known chain steakhouse i guess that would be outback yeah i would think yeah and in my area we had tony roma well i guess tony roms is more of a ribs place

steak place uh Maybe, but... I think it would be the Outback. Had they expanded that as far in 97, though? Yeah, I don't know. The Austin Powers baby back ribs joke was in 99. Oh, yeah. It was big enough then to make a riff on the commercial. Right.

You know, I know my family was eating at Outback. My dad loved a strip mall steak place. It's one of his favorite but it's a really good joke the the rhythm the rhythm of it is just perfect perfect and i i love how excited bart is uh but then he's also like well it's also not great it's pretty catty about black angus he wouldn't say no to black angus but he won't admit that he will admit it's not the best. You know, I bet it is them joking about where they order lunch.

I, I, that's very possible. Or at least like one of the, one of the places they would order from. Like, I think islands burgers is one. They bring up a lot on the commentary islands.

There's an islands also very close to that black Angus. So it's very possible that they're just places they ordered lunch from uh mike scully has a funny funny joke about that on the commentary because he's like he loves to think that there was some brand manager who here's the first part of that joke and he's just like all right free advertising oh no. I like when they take shots. They're not the worst. Yeah, yeah. How we use electricity can be smarter, cleaner, and greener.

At Electric Ireland, we can help guide you there. You see, our new Net Zero Hub has all you need to know about smart meter plans, EV tariffs, solar panels, and much more. Making your usage clearer, your trips greener, your home cozier, and your world brighter. Find our net zero hub at electricireland.ie.

It's not as mean as they were to Butterfingers in the couple years. Yeah, that's true. Even the fire. And I do like the little gag before that with Skinner and the tardy slips. It makes you think like,

how many tardy slips have I, the metaphorical tardy slips in my life, how many of those did I sign instead of having earthly delight? I guess that's true, yeah. They head up to the mountain for the end. And the whole, a good amount of the town is there not everybody it's it's a decent sized crowd it's enough to be like yeah that's pretty much everyone

in the town but we don't have to see a ton of people who are surely there but off camera yeah yeah and uh we get a rather morbid joke the like we beat cancer as they take another cigarettes puff. And, uh, and I really liked the animation. Like it's one of the best like animation moments where Smithers kisses burn.

Oh yeah. That's beautifully drawn. Yeah. Like the way he just grabs him. It is like kind of filmed like in a romantic comedy or something. It's a cute moment. And it's like the most, uh, overt he's gotten sexually.

Maybe in the show. It's definitely the first time he's kissed a man on the show. I think the end is near. Well, there you go. I hope you all learned. Silence. Prepare for the end. The end of high prices. Behold!

The grand opening of the Heavenly Hills Mall. Please follow the angel for all your shopping needs. That's amazing. It's like a tree. I love that part. It's like King of the Stick. The part's great, the stick. It's such a great cheat that they don't draw one wire on it

when it flies into the air, but once it's revealed, the wire is so obvious. It's like a huge rope. rope also there's a weird um like blink if you'll and you'll miss it but like when the angel starts talking millhouse cowers and grabs agnes oh it's just that's strange those two characters she would normally hate bill house touching her really any child uh land oh and also in the audience we see like apu with manjula which right they got married in just the previous episode to this and they're already being drawn together that's that's interesting like production order

timing too like some definitely some because it would it wouldn't have been the same directing staff no no so someone must have known where the episodes were gonna land yeah so i like the care in that too that they they got them together and i i love that picture of him crusty with mr teeny together just like staring oh that's who they they do like well who would crusty be with i guess mrd i looked up if uh heavenly hills mall ever came back or recurred in any way and it and it did not oh i think any time they visited a mall after this they just used springfield mall again i guess it's an item you can buy in tapped out but i guess that's it that's its only other appearance okay if that's that's too bad they should yeah at least one more visit to the

heavenly hills mall maybe they don't drive up that way too often i guess i guess maybe like when i was watching it i was trying to rationalize it to myself like i guess maybe this is slightly out of town or something it does seem you know uh a lot of empty space in that area it definitely feels like on the outskirts i think uh in my town growing up in orange park florida there was like the new mall that at first didn't have a lot of stuff around it and then they started just building stuff around it right it was mall first and then tract housing does happen and uh yeah the the obviousness of the angel and just like it's stuck in the tree and then gets pasted

off, just slams into the building and it's there forever. And I do like that Lisa, she's done acting smug. She's actually defending the people who actually just got her arrested, which is, this is a nice turn for her. I do like it. Wait a second. You planted a phony skeleton for me to find. This was all a big hoax.

Not a hoax. A publicity stunt. You exploited people's deepest beliefs just to hawk your cheesy wares? We are outraged, aren't we? Oh, yeah, yeah, we're outraged. Very much so. But look at all the stores. A pottery barn. And 20% off everything? Hey, does that include rat spray? Oh, yeah.

Out of my way, shorty. Hey. Hey. I don't understand, Professor. Why didn't your test show the skeleton was a fake? I'm going to be honest with you, Lisa. I never did the tests. I kind of like the meanness of like, I never did the test.

Just leaves. It's more of a punch, I guess. I guess it's more that I know there was another line there. Why didn't he? It's less logical, but I guess it punches a little harder as a punchline. He just, he simply didn't care. That's why. Yeah.

And I love Wiggum's like, oh, very much so. But everyone's forgiven them instantly. Lisa's the only one who even cares that they did that. But it is a great turn for Lisa. And it's actually like a pretty subtle one that, you know, she did retain some of the stuff that marge told her you know that it is important to believe in stuff yeah and that she she is insulted on their behalf because she does she now does care about their right to believe something

yeah and is more is definitely much more mad at the exploitation of it than than the people who believe it oh it's weird though that okay it's weird to me that agnes calls mo shorty because not particularly short it's uh i i wonder if charlie yeah now curly that would work yeah it's just kind of a generic insult line i guess and then there's a little moment with burns and smithers like what do you take burns's look to me and like does he think he's weird or does he's like or is he like smithers why are you going back in the closet it's the end of these jokes something gay perhaps it um it was weird watching it again that joke really just did feel like oh they actually can't do something that's like outright taking Smithers to task just for being

gay. So it had to be a character moment between the two of them, you know, and it's really just burns maybe not knowing what's going on, but suddenly getting an inkling, which is, which is funny because how could he not know at this point? He kissed me on the lips.

Something's odd about this smither. Yeah, yeah. And I feel like it's a better way to take that joke than just outright demonizing smithers. Yeah, yeah. And so we have this rather sweet ending. I especially like the dialogue choice by Marge here of calling Lisa an angel at the end.

This is really cute. Well, I guess you were right, honey. But you have to admit, when that angel started to talk, you were squeezing my hand pretty hard. Well, it was just so loud. Thanks for squeezing back. Anytime, my angel. Oh, that's very sweet It's great It's just pleasant

And like Yeah You know no one Neither Marge Or Lisa Like Holds the other Like

Accountable Like Haha You know I've proven my point No I've proven mine It's just very like Understated

Yeah And it's Marge Who gives up first And is just like Well yeah that angel's fake Wasn't it I've proven my point. No, I've proven mine. It's just very understated. And it's March who gives up first. It's just like, well, yeah, that angel was fake, wasn't it? And Lisa, they both agree. It's a sweet moment. And they're just calling her my angel is just a nice callback to just the entire angel plot of this whole episode. And Lisa can't deny her humanity, even though she's a logic lord. She's like, I'm still afraid of death,

and I still love my mother. Of course. I believe enough to be terrified in this moment when I'm being fooled into thinking it's the rapture. Though, of course, I mean, my headcanon is Marge never believed in the angel and saw this all as a teaching moment for Lisa. Ah, you know, I like that. I like a teaching moment for lisa you know i like that i like that

it gives even more you know sometimes they don't give enough like agency or forethought to marge or cleverness so i i like that reading too the margins like time to this can be a parable for i think the show supports that reading too yeah i, for sure. I think you're right. And well, last note from the commentary, they mentioned that they discussed apparently having a song by Jimi Hendrix called Angel over the credits. But that sounds pretty expensive. I have a feeling that plan went down pretty fast. No.

I was shocked to find out. Apparently, I didn't dig too hard, but YouTube doesn't really have Jimi Hendrix like originals on there I think he's one of those artists who keeps their stuff off of YouTube still holding onto it tight which is weird because like Prince well the Prince estate gave up on that they did put like Prince when he was alive didn't want anything on the internet right pretty famously but now all of his stuff's on youtube or prime instant or any of that stuff but it seems like the uh the hendrix estate is holding out but uh maybe this episode will end with a hendrix song who knows you can't stop me for it that's true

yeah podcast podcast you know this was a sweeter episode than i remembered full full of some really funny jokes and really good lines especially you know I really underestimated Moe in this one yeah it's so many great lines in this episode I I will say this every season nine episode but it's like this was better than I remembered it yeah I mean honestly when I look at season nine I see a lot of episodes where I'm like oh I might not think that the story is the strongest story, but it's still full of really good character moments and really good jokes. There's nothing yet where I feel like the jokes are betraying the characters to the point where they're unrecognizable. The characters are still the characters. And maybe there's like not as much heart,

but it's kind of hard to find that heart in, you know, after like nine seasons of television, you know, finding new dimensions to the characters is probably pretty difficult. And so, you know, this episode is a pretty good triumph for that. Finding a new dimension. Yeah, they did still find heart for the this story and an emotional core to it. Well, David Cohen is one of their best writers in this season for sure yeah i we've we've said it before but the the imagined like ninth or tenth season that david cohen could have overseen if he wasn't on futurama right i i mean what you can even think i haven't put out this dream scenario but what if you know mike scully just

did the regular two seasons that everybody did and then it was like season 11 is cohen took over like say oh futurama got canceled after two seasons now david cohen can run the simpsons like that would have been an interesting and interesting time and definitely i mean i like this episode a lot it could end up being the best one of nine uh just going off of what i know so far but i like it a lot i'm glad we didn't talk about how the internet ruined this sort of discourse for everyone. And what internet atheists turn into. Let's not talk about that. It's easy to find.

Just go on Twitter. But yeah, I mean, it's very sweet. Again, I like more of Marge in Act 1, sort of at odds with Lisa, or at least representing Marge as someone who's more open-minded or more believing in people. But as it stands, I think it's very strong. And I really liked using as a teaching aid in my class just i was really fun hearing what students would read into this very different opinions from this episode for sure so ian you're a special guest for this episode please talk about your amazing tv show that's on the air right now where we can find it hey thanks

so much yeah um i am the creator of a show called ok ko Let's Be Heroes. It's made by Cartoon Network and you can find it on Hulu now. They've got the whole first season and some of the second season. You can also find it on the Cartoon Network app if you have that. But yeah, also it's on TV sometimes, but who's counting? But yeah, give it a look if you like Simpsons and especially sort of like the feeling of a whole mob of weird characters. And if you also have a soft spot for like season one Simpsons wonky animation, I think you'll really enjoy it. So thanks so much for having me. Oh, thank you. Thank you so much for coming on again.

We'd love to have you back. And yeah, folks want to learn more about OKKO and also hear us podcasting. You and your co-executive producer, Toby Jones, did a whole What a Cartoon podcast about it, which folks should, I believe it'll be posting soon after this episode. It's a very long episode. Yes. So we know you like those. Check it out.

So thanks again to Ian Jones-Cordy. We are now two weeks in the future. I remember just being full of Mexican food and not knowing how sick I would become the next day. Not from the Mexican food, just unrelated illness. I have to get sick every time I go to LA. It's tradition. That was quite a recording night with Ian. Ian fucking rules. Ian Jones-Cordy, the coolest. And I mean, it also was too bad, like Toby Jones, who's been on the other podcast with him, he had to bow out because he wasn't feeling very well either. I was infected by Toby. That's okay. He makes good cartoons. But Ian spent the entire day with us. God damn, what a nice guy. He spent about four hours on that OK KO podcast with us.

Then we went out to get Mexican food. Then we came back and recorded for another two hours of Lisa the Skepticic and we all couldn't stop apologizing to each other it was very cute we i mean we did with ian we spent 3 p.m to 11 p.m with him like eight eight full hours a full work day with this guy who is a professional voice actor and showrunner and animator of his own show like yes we appreciate it so much i did have to laugh at by the like fourth time that every time we would take a break we'd be like i'm sorry it's taking so long no i'm sorry no i'm scum we all loved how long it took we loved talking for that long we just felt like we were worried

that we were taking too long with the other person but it turns out we all just love podcasts so much we love them so much and again please let ian know that you loved him on the show he was so so great on the show. And next time we go back to LA, we'd love to have him back again. And I think it's probably very likely he will be back unless he's very, very busy on working on another cartoon or whatever else he's doing. Yeah. Yeah. And everybody, everybody, everybody should watch OK KO Let's Be Heroes. If you're in North America, it's on the Hulu app. You can watch it on Hulu, the first like 70-ish episodes. And if you have access to the Cartoon Network app and love watching commercials for McDonald's or Cheez-Its,

you can see the episodes on there. But it's such a great show. Everybody, watch OK KO Let's Be Heroes. Yes, we heartily endorse it. In fact, i didn't get to start watching it until we did the episode for what a cartoon because i've just been so busy preparing things and doing other things and i really got into it preparing for the show so i really endorse it it's great it's got great animation and great stories and great music

and great characters but as for us we are all part of the talking simpsons network this show is supported by that network and if you want to help support the show and get all kinds of cool bonuses on top of that, please go to patreon.com slash Talking Simpsons. If you donate at the $5 level, $5 a month, we'll get you every episode of this podcast one week ahead of time and ad-free. And the same goes for our sister show, What a Cartoon. You also get all of the bonus podcasts and series

on the $5 level, like Talking Critic and Talking Futurama and the new and currently running Talking of the Hill, where we go through the first season of King of the bonus podcasts and series on the $5 level, like Talking Critic and Talking Futurama and the new and currently running Talking of the Hill, where we go through the first season of King of the Hill with the Talking Simpsons treatment. There's also other stuff on that level, like interviews, community podcasts every month, so many surprises and bonus things. If you've never been a member of the Patreon, signing up today will get you so much bonus content, you won't be able to handle it. You'll have to take days off of work. On that same LA trip, we interviewed Josh Weinstein in his office, and you can hear our interview with him on the Patreon right now if you sign

up at patreon.com slash TalkingSimpsons. And if you want to be a big spender and sign up at the $10 level, you'll get all of the $5 bonuses. And also you'll get access to our newest podcast, the What a Cartoon Movie podcast, where we look at a different cartoon movie every month. They are super-sized podcasts. Our last one about a goofy movie was, I believe, over three and a half hours long. And that'll take you a whole day to just chow through, Betty.

But yeah. Yeah, even though it's technically a once-a-month podcast, it's more like you're getting two podcasts or even three. Almost three at this point. yes we make it worth it we want to give you the most for your for your podcasting buck and that ten dollars will get you everything we've done for that series so far so four episodes of what a cartoon movie and also 18 months of our previous video content we did at that ten dollar level so we've got tons of videos waiting there for you as well along with the four so far what a cartoon movies and one a month in the future yes look forward to whatever marches is going to be and you'll learn about that first if you sign up at patreon.com slash talking simpsons as for me i've been one

of your hosts bob mackie find me on twitter as bob servo my other podcast is retro knots a classic gaming podcast every monday and occasionally friday please go to retronauts a classic gaming podcast every monday and occasionally friday please go to retronauts.com or look for retronauts in your podcast machine i think you'll like it please download an episode about a topic you like and then maybe subscribe to it why don't you henry how about you you can find me on twitter at h-e-n-e-r-e-y-g that's where you can hear all about the new news in the world of henry gilbert also my reactions to say when i see a new cartoon by ian jones cordy like ok ko or his recent additions to the season finale of steven universe also you'll find out whenever a new podcast or something goes live on the patreon because i'll tweet it out

follow me there h-e-n-e-r-e-y-g thanks so much for joining us folks we'll see you next week for the episode of Realty Bites. We'll see you then. Angel came down from heaven yesterday. She stayed with me just long enough to rescue me. And she told me a story yesterday

About the sweet love between the moon and the deep blue sea And then she spread her wings high over me She said she's gonna come back tomorrow Then I said Fly on now

sweet angel Fly on through the sky Fly on my sweet angel Tomorrow I'm gonna be by your side sure enough Sure enough, this boy named came home to me Silver wings, silver weather Gets to try out some rides And my angel, she said unto me Today is the day for you to rise

Take my hand, you're gonna be my man You're gonna rise And then she took me high over yonder And I said fly on my sweet angel Fly all through the sky Fly on my sweet angel Forever I will be by your side I'm sorry. I'll just leave it in here a few years and let it appreciate in value. It's probably a million years old, Dad.

I think it's as valuable as it's going to get. That's what they said about this Billy Bear, smarty pants. We elected the wrong Carter team.