Talking Simpsons - Talking Simpsons - Lisa's Sax With Alex Navarro

Episode Date: February 6, 2019

Once again we're joined by Giant Bomb's own Alex Navarro, and he's here to lend a musician's insight into this story of childhood. This tale of Lisa's saxophone and Bart starting school is certainly touching, even if some jokes are better than others, but it's all a fun trip back to childhood in 1990 for all of us in this week's podcast. So stop watching WB and listen now! Support this podcast and get dozens of bonus episodes by visiting Patreon.com/TalkingSimpsons and becoming a patron!

hey everybody right before the show wanted to let you know we have an update to our patreon a brand new monthly movie podcast is available now for ten dollar and up patrons at patreon.com slash talking simpsons you want to hear me and bob talk all about mask of the phantasm the best batman movie of all time you can hear all about that in our long, almost three hours long podcast, patreon.com slash Talking Simpsons. I heartily endorse this event or product. Got it. Ahoy, hoy, everybody. Welcome to Talking Simpsons, where we dance the funky grandpa.

I'm your host, crudely drawn filler material, Bob Mackie. And this is our chronological exploration of The Simpsons. Who else is here with me today? Henry Gilbert. And if a strange man offers you a ride, I say take it. Way ahead of you. And who do we have on the line? We have Alex Navarro, a boy who was also crushed by the horrors of elementary school once back in the day.

As we all were. And today's episode is Lisa's Sacks. And so, just as things look their worst, I realized I could make money selling my medication to deadheads today's episode aired on october 19th 1997 and as always henry will tell us what happened on this mythical day in real world history oh my god oh boy bobby glenn buxton the virtuoso guitars for alice

cooper passes away at 49 wow bean and i know what you did last summer battle it out at the theaters and candle in the wind is the inescapable song on the radio oh that would be this time also at this time the world series is rudely interrupting cartoons on late night fox and that's just getting in the way that's why there is four weeks in between the airing of this episode and the episode before it. All thanks to the World Series. Boo baseball. Boo.

It destroyed Futurama. Well, not yet, but it will. Bean I saw in the theaters. And I think that's when I remember my brother, little brother, was very disappointed by it. Because it's a lot broader than even the original BBC series. It's not as cerebral as Mr. Bean. In the movie, there's a scene where the guy says, and that's my prize, Crystal Voss.

Watch out, Bean. Don't you eat this pie. Was this before or after the movie where Rowan Atkinson played a comedic super spy and actually spoke? No, this is before that. Johnny English, I believe. And they made a new one of those very recently.

They really did. Yeah, how did they do that? Unbelievable. That's a real shame. And yeah, I remember the ads for that. They couldn't make their tagline Bean Meets Bond because that is two things that Johnny English people did not own. But what they could do is quote a newspaper review that said

Bean Meets Bond and puts that over every ad for their movie. It's nice and legal. That tagline. Guitar stylings of Glenn Buxton. Those are nice. I like those. I'm not as big a music guy as Alex is, but I do Alice Cooper's tune. Yeah, I mean, who doesn't love a little bit of Alice Cooper?

He was past the wave, the resurgence of Wayne's World by this point. But, you know, he's still out there. He's still touring. He seems to still be rolling along. He heralded the closing of school and the coming of summer. Hell yes. And having to hear about being 18. Yeah.

All those things. Billion dollar babies. But Alex is with us again. Alex Navarro, famously of Giant Bomb. I believe he was last with us for Team Homer back in April. So welcome back to the show, Alex. Thank you very much for having me. Yes, I was there for the bowling episode, and now I am here for the musical prodigy episode.

So I'm looking forward to digging into this one because I remember this episode very fondly. Watching it again, there are some parts I don't remember nearly as fondly anymore. Same here. Same here. I mean, it is a very strange episode, and that is part of the 3G production series. So to not bore everyone, I'll get through it really fast. 3G were four episodes put together by Al Jean, Mike Reese, Daniel Stern, and Reed Harrison. So they didn't have the Simpsons writing room.

It was just four people working on four episodes together, I think over the course of two years, which is why this episode takes place in 1997. And they say five years ago, meaning 1990. And on the commentary, Al Jean said he was writing this episode while waiting to get tickets to see the OJ Simpson trial. And it's correct. So this episode was written in 1995, probably intended to air in 96, but held over to 97, I'm guessing.

When this has a lot of the things we mentioned in our Springfield files one two just like this joke makes sense in 1995 in 1997 it feels kind of old to do a reference to say the budweiser frogs or in this episode fruitopia it's just like this by 97 no one was thinking of fruitopia anymore this one makes it so clear they say so many times like five years ago, 1990, you were five years younger, 1990. And during school for the first time in 1990. Yeah. I mean, so the last flashback episode was in Maggie Makes Three. And I think at that point, the Simpsons timeline was drifting a bit. So they made sure to not mention a year. So I married Marge and Lisa's first word were both given specific dates and time. But in Maggie Makes Three, it wasn't given a date. They mentioned things like Crystal Cola, but it was still sort of fuzzy.

But now they go back to, say, 1990, and they're flashing back to a point in time which The Simpsons already existed as a TV show. Yes. Now, is the WB Network thrashing they give at the very top of this episode part of that? I can't remember the exact timeline of when WB Network sucked and when it didn't. I believe it started in 95, WB as a is yeah yeah well bart's watching it in present day so that that's not an inconsistency though there are a couple there are a couple inconsistent jokes in the 1990s that bug me because they're also not super funny so it's like you break you break the flashback premise

and for a joke that's not great you know yeah not to get too far ahead of ourselves i think this episode has a few of what i would call late season four problems and if you go back to our early talking simpsons you'll hear those it's like a lot of what i would call a comedy filler there's a lot of um things that aljean likes to do like parodies and some of them are funny but also things like dream sequences and lots of grandpa coming in for no reason so and uh montages as well aljean loves him a montage and there's lots of that and this episode is mostly aljean who is the current showrunner uh and has been for the past what 13 15 17 i think 17 oh my god 17 years so he is the mad dictator of the simpsons and we love him as mike reese says on the commentary he says this is the

this is the closest to a truly written by one person episode of the simpsons ever because he says like it's 80 or 90 to 90 percent gene script which every episode gets heavily rewritten it's more just the wga rules that say well the accredited writer is this credited writer like if you want to hear a lot more about that our interview with dan grainy that's on the patreon he goes a lot into how if when we asked him about jokes in his his titled episodes he's like well i didn't write that i didn't write that but he's like well no let me talk about the episodes i wrote really good jokes on even though my name isn't the credited writer but that's not the case in this one apparently you can uh credit a lot of this to aljean for good and ill well i want to compliment aljean just because

i don't want to be too too mean to him the time, but this does have the good and the bad of Al Jean. There is the bad filler. There is a lot of like, boy, this is 15 minutes stretched to 22. But there's also, what Jean is very good at identifying is like an emotional core. There's at least, it all builds to an ending of a cute father-daughter relationship, which is, he's a master of. He knows Lisa and Homer stuff goes great. I'm thinking it's because he's a father as well. He really identifies with that. And he usually makes it work really well.

That is a good core kernel of an episode. I just wish they'd maybe given themselves a B-plot or something more to fill it out. You know? They're spinning their wheels a bit. And like we said with the Springfield Files and Cherry Bobbins, and I'm sure we'll say it about Simpson Tide, these episodes do not have the benefit of a writer's room to be sent through,

like the machine to make everything better, which is what the Simpsons relies on, like 13 or 15 writers, now probably 30, just all making every line better and sharper. This was four guys working on these four episodes alone in a satellite office. So they did not have the benefit of the machine to make this a better episode. And what was the reasoning behind those episodes not going through the writer's room? They just wanted more episodes.

They being Fox. Yeah, they being Fox. Sorry. But I believe the solution proposed to The Simpsons was, hey, make more clip shows. And the writers hated clip shows. So instead of making clip shows, they would hire old showrunners back to make episodes independently. So David Merkin has The Joy of Sect in this season. Bill Oakley and Josh Weinstein have Lisa the Simpson in this season. And Al Jean and Mike Reese have this and Simpson Tide in this season. So it was a way to get more episodes without taxing the current showrunners. I will say that of those episodes, I think Simpson Tide is the only one I actively dislike. Most of those other episodes turned simpson tide is the only one i actively dislike most of those other episodes turned out i think for the most part pretty well yes i think

simpson's tide might be the worst one that the the 3g production staff did but who knows we'll get to maybe when we watch it it's actually good yeah probably no it's not no i just watched it at a trivia thing and it's not okay we'll get to it soon well another thing that's interesting to me about this is that it is, they mentioned it on the commentary that it's the first time Algenus had a sole writer credit in his entire career because he was always partnered with Mike Reese. Mike Reese, you could tell was getting sick of Hollywood. He said it in his own book, like he hates Hollywood. He hates working in Hollywood. Understandably so. It sounds awful. Post getting two shows canceled. So this and Teen Angel were canceled. He working in Hollywood. Understandably so. It sounds awful. Post getting two shows canceled.

So this and Teen Angel were canceled. He just hated Hollywood. And so this is an interesting time in the show where Mike Reese will only write, will only executive produce one more episode with Al Jean. And then they'll go through basically a creative divorce. And Al Jean will go back. They seem still very friendly on the commentary.

So it doesn't like I, it doesn't seem like there was any bad blood. Mike Reese has flown in once a week ever since he moved away to just write on the show as a consulting producer. And then Al Jean will get back into the writing staff and like season 12 as a sole producer on the show. This feels like Al Jean realizing, do I need this guy or can I do this on my own?

If, if this guy wants to quit, like, and, uh, yes I need this guy? Or can I do this on my own if this guy wants to quit? And yes, but this episode has a lot of the failings of later Al Jean seasons in it too. Last preface I have about this one is that it comes at such a weird time for this episode to air because it is in between Armand tamsarian one of the most meta episodes ever of the show and then you have the start of mike scully's years that is much more broad and d harvardified as we've heard it called and then in the middle you have this like season three type episode season four type episode bridging the two and it's like so tonally

different these three episodes together it's a real case of whiplash if we're if we're extra negative it's just because we've been so used to uh you know oakley and weinstein for the past year of our podcast it's so weird to go back to such a different style immediately without being like gradually transitioning into this different style and uh oh and the gene gene is a very economical storyteller and noticing where there's gray areas like, well, we haven't mined that for a backstory yet. Like one of their most formative episodes as writers, Gene and Reese together was The Way We Was. Like that taught them how to do a flashback. It gave them the perfect, you know, style that they would repeat multiple times, either written by them or written by Jeff Martin. And that was a style that the season seven staff copied

with In Maggie Makes Three. And I would bet if I was Gene, I'd be kicking myself like, they took the Maggie birth from me. That should have been my story. We learned about the pacifier origin though. Yeah. Safe way.

Well, and that joke, Mike Reese brings it up on the commentary in a mocking tone, but like, Al Jean will do an episode about the origin of Homer's pants. Like, that's how far back they go in these things, to find something to explain that hadn't been explained yet. Okay, so I guess this episode starts, just to let you know that this is a Jean and Reese one, a minute-long intro.

They always have long intros because their episodes are too short for broadcast uh and then not only do they do one intro but then they do a full all in the family intro there's four parodies in the first three minutes of this episode it's amazing ever actually watched any all in the family prior to seeing this episode so i like this is one of those things that I ended up having to look up when I was a kid. I think I did too, because it wasn't, it didn't get on Nick at Night until a couple of years later, I feel like. Just as a mega dork, I would re,

I would watch old sitcoms just so I would get references in Simpsons and Mystery Science Theater. So I would have sought out All in the Family just to have known about it. But I'm sure I heard about it in like a hundred years of television celebrated specials or whatever just saw i've seen clips of it yeah i included a clip of the original in our slack channel just for people to listen to because i feel like this

probably needs to be explained to a lot of people we're all in our mid to late 30s i guess at this point and we might have caught it in the late 90s on nick at night or whatever and then wherever it ran after that but i don't think uh all in the family is as well known in fact both this episode and the family guy opening parody the all in the family opening and family guy is like a zillion times more popular and well known than all in the family i think that is that lost the time that the opening of family guy is the all in the family opening yeah i was gonna say that that played for me you know by the time family guy came around i had done the research and understood what that was and you know i kind of knew what the show i knew of its existence yeah like the understanding of like you know who archie bunker

was and sort of like what the tone of that show was was not something i really understood until i went and looked it up around the time either this episode or the one where they do the actual tv parody where they're talking about where archie's like uh they've got me with a woman american and uh a hippie american or whatever you know the the that whatever it was they were doing for that made me go look it up. I actually did like that joke. I wish I saved my money from the first show. Yeah. Okay.

Well, let's hear the original first and the Simpsons version. Okay. Boy, the way Glenn Miller played. Songs that made the hit parade. Guys like us, we had it made Those were the days And you knew when you were there Dance for girls and men, woman

Missed that we could use a man like Herbert Hoover again Didn't need no welfare state Everybody pulled his weight Gee, our own was sour and great Those were the days So if those references were lost on you, listener, they're talking about the 40s. They're singing about the 40s, and Homer and Marge are singing about the 70s in their version. I like how Julie Kavner hits the same sour note that Gene Stapleton does in that song. Yes, that is very good.

All right, so now let's hear the Simpsons version. Boy, the way the Bee Gees played Movies John Travolta made. Guessing how much Elvis weighed. Those were the days. And you knew where you were then. Watching shows like Gentle Ben. Mister, we could use a man like Sheriff Lobo again.

Disco Duck and Fleetwood Mac. Coming out of my 8-track. Michael Jackson still was black. Those were the days. The Simpsons is filmed in front of a live studio audience. That All in the Family song is a great opening to a show about an old racist who thinks that the modern times are too horrible. And praising Herbert Hoover. Yes, yeah.

Yeah. Didn't need no welfare state. Like, I'm pretty sure the welfare state was invented because you did need it. But it's a great tune to start this show about Archie Bunker. But the Simpsons song, it has nothing to do with anything. It fills time with an extended parody that they even do the full song. And then a fade out. And the fade out and the cuts to just a tracking shot of houses. Like it's rather indulgent.

Yeah. I do like the accuracy that the things they remember are things from 1974 when they were in high school. Yeah, yeah. So it does call back to the way we was. Yeah, it's good in that way. But it just, I don't understand it i hope i do like to imagine though people you know 15 20 years younger than us see that scene and think like the simpsons really ripped off family god geez oh god or why did family guy parody lisa sex that's weird the only line from this this parody that i ever remember

outside of watching this episode is the is is, is Homer hitting the gentle Ben notes just because gentle Ben is for some reason, this show, despite maybe ever having seen one of it ever. Yeah. Gentle Ben and the, uh, another of the random ones was hearing sheriff Lobo Lobo,

man. When I heard sheriff Lobo, I was like, I only know sheriff Lobo because the Simpsons referenced it before is a musty old thing. Yeah. As far as I'm concerned, sheriff Lobo is just something that exists within the Simpsons canon. It is not a real show. Yeah, it's just a bunch of references on top of each other, really. I feel like by 1997, Michael Jackson jokes were past their expiration date, though. This is a real

95 taste to it, I feel. Yeah, I mean, well, just talking about his skin color is like, that's an old joke, like 92. Yeah, I mean, like, just talking about his skin color is like that. That's an old joke. Like 92. Yeah. I mean, like once, once he made the black or white video,

you couldn't, I mean, I think he made that video. So you couldn't make the joke anymore. I do like how relaxedly Homer is smoking a cigar only for the staging, but I do like it, which fits with his character back then, but also makes him Archie Bunker.

Like it's a, I like thinking back on that all in the family show him Archie Bunker. Like it's, uh, I like thinking back on that all in the family show because Archie Bunker is like, he's an early example of this thing that has been, is happening now still in TV where you have a character that is not to be liked. He is a bad example, but then the show becomes popular and it's partially because people think he's a cool character and worth aggrandizing like, like Bojack Horseman or Don Draper or Rick and Morty or Rick and Morty. Yeah.

Rick Sanchez is pretty bad guy. You're supposed to not be Rick guys. Yeah. I mean the thing with, with Archie Bunker, like the whole premise of that show was that it's like a weird old racist. And then his son is like a hippie, right?

Like that's the thing. And then there's just the constant cultural clashes. yeah and him just navigating this culture he doesn't understand is this uh one then behind the scenes it was about carol o'connor wanting to control the character that norman lear created and it's it caused a lot of problems on the set too and i think a lot of people went on to make much softer versions of that premise like king of the hill is very much all in the family but with a more likable archie bunker a more likable conservative crank uh well so after but like bob said we get three parodies in a row so first we get that then we get a mission michigan j frog song which in 1995 wb was brand new 1997 they were still kind of struggling they would

only hit it big this year when they would finally figure out what they wanted to be with buffy and that premiering in 1997 and in two years bill oakley and josh weinstein would have the mission hill premiere for two whole days he canceled one of my least favorite pop culture jokes of this era of simpsons is when their joke is just look how much this thing sucks we have literally no joke to go with it beyond just pointing out how much this thing sucks and that's kind of what that bit is to me how much this thing sucks. We have literally no joke to go with it beyond just pointing out how much this thing sucks. And that's kind of what that bit is to me is, hey, this other network sucks,

so we're just going to have the frog say it. Yeah, they're really dumping on CBS on the Springfield Files episode. What's a Saturday Night Craporama? Yeah, Saturday Night Craporama. Yeah, that's, Gina Reese had some axes to grind with networks here. At least name check shows that you don't like.

A friend of theirs could work on that, Bob. Come on. They're going to pull some punches. Was Mike Reese Moonlighting on Homeboys from Outer Space yet at this point? Well, that was UPN, the hated rival of WB. At some point, they combined and became the CW.

That's how that network eventually was birthed into existence. Yes. Yeah. On the commentary, they joke about how this joke doesn't even work anymore because WB, by the time they record that commentary, which was a decade ago, they're like, the WB is not a thing anymore. Joined up with the CW or joined WBN to create the CW

because there just wasn't space for six networks at that point. The CW is still around. Mostly it is superhero shows. And Archie? Oh, and Archie, yes. Okay. Comic book shows. Yeah.

They found their way eventually. I thought I'd check out the Warner Brothers Network. That was a present on the WB. Another bad show that no one will see. I need a drink. It's the TV movie of the year, the Krusty the Clown story. Booze, drugs,

guns, lies, blackmail, and laughter. Starring Fivish Finkel as Krusty the Clown. I went through a five-year orgy of non-stop pills and booze with nothing to show for it but four Emmys and a Peabody Award. All right. They're going to show his disastrous marriage to Mia Farrow.

Chanho, your mother Mia and I are getting a divorce. Chanho is over there. I am Chin-ho. Whoever you are, just pass it along, kid. Again, 1995, they're very much in the era of the critic mindset, and we have some Woody Allen jokes. But I love Fivish Finkel. I believe he was on picket fences at this time, but if you want to learn more about him,

go to our What a Cartoon episode about the Rugrats Hanukkah special. He played Shlomo in that episode. He's a classically trained yiddish theater performer and he's a very very funny i mean five ish finkel that's just a fun name but uh his his performance is is always funny and just to see the idea that he would star in a tv movie about uh crusty is also it is a funny idea but i will also call bullshit on like the WB didn't have trashy 80s TV movies. That's the one channel. They didn't do that. They were a 90s channel.

So it's just very much, it's like a combining of jokes, of two easy jokes. I never thought of it that way, but yeah, it doesn't really belong. We are overthinking it. That's our job. Yeah. Definitely. But at the same time, look, anything that puts Fivesh Finkel front and center in pop culture, I am all for. One of my all-time great randomly running into a celebrity in New York stories was running into Fivesh Finkel in

a restaurant about a year or so before he passed away. And he was very old. He was very frail, but he was on his way out walking and i was like standing in the uh the the foyer of the restaurant and he was just smiling at everyone just sort of like waving like having a blast like people were walking up to him just you know kind of saying hey i love your work and you know he wasn't talking a lot but he was just like very receptive very very positive and happy and it's like that's what you want when you randomly run into a celebrity in a restaurant in new york is you just want them to be nice and happy and it's like that's what you want when you randomly run into a celebrity in a restaurant in new york is you just want them to be nice and happy and not necessarily you know running around looking for attention but you know he seemed very happy and very good spirits

that's sort of like the opposite of meeting jerry lewis exactly totally yeah this is this has so many early seasons moments in it too of like maggie with her power tools really reminded me of marge uh itchy and scratchy and marge and then just people being mad at lisa playing her damn saxophone when it happens in this episode like when i was just trying to rack my brain like when was the last time she ever played her saxophone on the song uh deep deep trouble yeah it's i feel like the last time she was yelled out was probably like Lisa's rival For playing her saxophone It was like a weird holdover from the early seasons too Yeah I think so That was the start of season 6

Three years ago But it really was an early trait of Lisa That came up occasionally But Homer yelling at her Was like on the old merchandise On the old songs And it was never a thing after the first couple seasons But this episode is very nostalgic for The Simpsons itself yeah well actually alex i wanted to ask you you you wanted to pick this

episode partially because of your own musical background yeah you know it's one of those episodes that kind of hits me in the heartstrings just because you know i was definitely one of those kids when i was younger like my parents were frantically trying to find an outlet that i would stick to, you know, just for whatever creativity that I had, like they would take me to art classes, you know, I tried drama for a little while, my dad tried to teach me to guitar, which I had like zero deafness at, which is, I think, still to this day, a giant disappointment to him. And, you know, around the time I was like, let's say like 10 or 11, I started gravitating toward

maybe wanting to try learning to play the drums. And my parents were like, okay, if you're going to do this, we need to make sure you're going to commit to it because this is an expensive and loud hobby. So I took lessons for a couple of years. And then after a couple of years of that, they surprised me on Christmas with my first drum set. Oh, wow.

How do you wrap that? When I was like 13 or so. Yeah, that had to be in like the garage or something. How can they show that? How can they keep that a secret from you? Uh, I forget exactly how they hid it from me. I do remember that I was genuinely surprised though. Like it just showed up in the living room one morning and I was like, holy shit. First off, how did you manage to keep this for me? And second off, thank you. Uh, you know, it was a real cheap, you know, starter kit. It was, you know,

not that they didn't go all the way in right from the beginning but uh i beat the living hell out of those things for a couple years solid in my uh my earliest bands and whatnot that's so i have a certain kind of personal attachment to my first instrument and so this episode kind of if not a direct mirroring but at the very least sort of inspires those feelings in me a little bit well and your professional job is games person, but you also play drum. You're still quite a musical person. I mean, uh, wasn't too long ago as of the recording of this, you did a, a whole charity stream of playing the drums. Yes. So I also worked at harmonics for a while on the rock band franchise. And that is a game that I still play pretty regularly. Uh, it's a good way to kind of stay in practice when you live in a New York apartment and there is no chance of having your drum set set up at all.

So yeah, I still do that. And then for the Extra Life charity every year, I do these like marathon streams of me playing drums until I, I assume until I drop dead at this point. It'll just be every year until no more. Until I can't move anymore. So did you feel a personal benefit as a kid, like creatively or as learning, getting a musical instrument like Lisa has here? Yeah, totally.

Especially finding one that I actually had some aptitude toward. Like I guess I really wanted to learn to play guitar and I tried for years. And I just, again, my brain just does not work the right way for that instrument. And drums, you know, there was a period of my life where I was kind of aimless and depressed and not really sure what I was going to do with myself. A lot of those years were spent in bands kind of touring around and, you know, all the various years of band drama aside, that was a great outlet for me to just kind of figure out what I wanted to do with my life. Some of the weird memories I have of just being on the road and being in bands and stuff like that is shit that I will cherish probably until my dying day. So I will always have that kind of, that deep

attachment to both the instrument and the music. Interesting. Yeah. When I, my only experience with the drums is when I had a, when I was 14, I had a friend who had a drum set in his bedroom. It was an odd bedroom and he wouldn't invite me over, so I would listen to him play drums to Rage Against the Machine songs, and it was not any fun. I just wanted to play Nintendo. Drums is, like, it works in the video game context, because the rest of the

music there, and it's all kind of balanced, so that, you know, those solo streams are kind of fun. I would never, ever want to just make a person watch me play drums without any sort of, you know, like backing band behind me. Cause that is just a miserable way to experience that instrument. You got a little boom box there with, with rage playing. I bet the audio balance was all off. It was perfect. In, uh, in my teens and twenties, I befriended several, I had several of

my friends started bands. And by the end of it it my real appreciation was for the drummer of all of them because it's like you have to he needed to transport the most stuff he was the most in call he was like in two he was in at least two of the bands my friends were in because they just didn't know any other drummers and it was a huge responsibility to be the drummer much more so than like the bassist i yeah i i went from uh just sort of like being the guy who shows up and plays drums to the guy who schleps everything yeah you know in about a split second most of those tours uh i was hauling amps and guitars and i bought a pickup truck when i learned how to drive just because i needed something that

could haul all my equipment around so like a lot. So a number of my life choices that came after learning the drums were essentially dictated by the fact that I needed to figure out a place to put my damn drums. I did learn a musical instrument in junior high. Well, learn, I mean, I couldn't play it right now. But for two years in junior high band, I played a baritone, which is basically the thing in between like a trumpet and a tuba. It was fun enough to play, but it just wasn't for me. And then plus the entire like politics of a middle school band was no fun. I did not like it at all. You didn't have weird band nerd sex? That's all I heard about.

No, no, we weren't ready for that yet. I played guitar briefly as a teen, but it wasn't a challenge I could do like Lisa wanted. So I put it away. Actually, I still have my guitar in my apartment. I don't know why. Oh, wow. I feel a slight guilt watching this, though, too, because them getting mad at Lisa having to practice her music was a reversal of this of me being a teenager annoyed at my mom playing her saxophone. Oh.

Because my mom plays a lot of different woodwinds and also the trombone in bands. Like she loved being in her high school band and middle school band, but then kind of fell out of it. But then in her like late 30irties, she got into community band and it's just a lot of, you know, older people who to every Tuesday night they play in the band and just play concerts together. And it was fun and nice. And I just feel bad now that I, as a kid was like, mom, stop playing the saxophone. Like she, she was working a full-time job, raising two boys. And she just wanted to have like an hour to play her fucking saxophone to practice and i had to be a jerk and get mad at her for that i i i still feel

very guilty about that to this day and i'm confessing that to all of you guys right here i mean when you're a teenager you're never you know particularly cognizant of your parents needs you know it it very much boils down to, what is bothering me in a given moment? And that's all the decision-making you need. I had a similar thing with my mom. She didn't play an instrument, but she was a dancer like her entire life. She had a 25-year career as a ballet dancer.

Wow. And later in life, when I was a teenager and I was, you know, kind of definitely making my share of noise in the house with the drums, she got very into flamenco dancing, which was, you know, a great outlet for her, but also resulted in hours of her stomping around on the kitchen floor practicing and whatnot, which I'm not going to say that I yelled at her or got annoyed at her directly about it, but I definitely would like immediately bolt out of the house as soon as she started practicing

just to like try and find some peace for myself. Well, I never, I did never throw my mom's saxophone out the window, though, so I'm good in that way. I feel bad for all the kids. So you're not as bad as Bart. I feel bad for all the kids whose parents are podcasters. Oh, God. Dad's talking about Transformers again.

Well, they're probably talking about them on the podcast, too. This poor generation of children. They're going to inherit a world on fire, and then they have to be podcasted about podcast too. This poor generation of children. They're going to inherit a world on fire and then they have to be podcasted about too. But anyway, here's Bart destroying Lisa's saxophone. But Dad, I'm supposed to practice an hour a day. I'll practice you. You'll practice me.

What does that mean? Is it supposed to be some sort of threat? Bart, make her stop! Look Bart, I have to practice my saxophone and you can't stop me. Oh yeah? My dear Lisa, you are eight and I am ten. And in my two extra years on this planet, I've learned a few tricks. Give me that sax! No!

I said give me! I said no! Give me it! No! Give it! Give it! Give it! Give it! Give it! Give it!

Give it! Give it! Give it! Give it! Give it! Give it! Give it! Give it!

Give it! Give it! Give it! Give it! Give it! Give it! And then a bunch of things hit it, including Nelson. It hits it four times.

And including a reference to Laugh-In, that's all you need to know. The guy in the tricycle. It paid for the full song. Yeah. You'd think a minute would go by where they wouldn't reference a television show? I don't think so. Not on Al Jean's watch. I like, as an older brother, I do like Bart's. Not on Al Jean's watch. I, I like as an older

brother, I did, uh, I do like Bart's stance of like, by being older than you, I am correct. So I, I have one, like that's, that's all you need is a big brother to try and do that. I'm, am I the only big brother on this podcast here? I know Bob is not. I'm a little brother and it burns me up inside. I am an only child, so I was running solo. See, that's how you were able to practice your drums. You didn't have another sibling fucking with you on that shit. So the flat sax is a pretty funny visual. I do like her turning it over.

It's a cute image. I think it goes by way too fast that Bart should feel guilty about destroying her saxophone yeah it's like he's basically like not my problem anymore he's not punished for it or anything i guess he figures it was an oops because like it was they were both pulling on it who's to say who did this wrong but i mean he was he was working under orders he had orders from from homer you know to get the job done uh no court in the land would convict him watching this the first time as a kid i when homer finally starts he says the three things

that start a flashback in simpsons land that was when it clicked for me like oh it's one of these episodes okay which uh this is the first time they've ever flashed back to like you said truly when the simpsons was on tv and that always feels weird to me when they've done that since and in this one, because if you're going to talk about major pop culture of 1990, it's weird to not talk about The Simpsons, but obviously they can't, but it makes it just for a weird gray spot. And in Maggie Makes Three, it's supposed to take place in 1993, but they never say 93. Like they say 90 in this and 84 in Lisa's First Word

and I believe 80 or 81 in I Married Marge. Yes. Now, is this the first time that they explicitly referenced Tracy Ullman by name? I think so. Troy McClure might have on the 138th episode of Spectacular. Oh, yeah.

Yeah, about like psychiatry sketches and songs. Yes, that's true. Yeah. That's almost like non-canon. But yeah, this is the first time I think they have talked, like a Simpsons character in Springfield has said the Tracy Ullman show, which is also funny to bring her up because like, I don't know, four years before

this episode aired they finished a lawsuit between her and gracie films for ownership of the simpsons which she lost yeah so here's our here's when the flashbacks begin it all happened in 1990 back then the artist formerly known as prince was currently known as Prince. Tracy Ullman was entertaining America with songs, sketches, and crudely drawn filler material. And Bart was eagerly awaiting his first day of school. Look, Mama! Oh, honey, I can't right now. Bart's going to be late. Now, son, on your first day of school, I'd like to pass along the words of advice my father gave me. Homer, you're dumb as a mule and twice as ugly. If a strange man offers you a ride, I say take it. Lousy, traumatic childhood.

Oh, there's the bus. Goodbye, sweetheart. School will be fun uh the uh we're all crushed by the system i know this this school will be fun is just the most painful line in this episode by far yeah that this episode has some real highs where it finds like real identifiable emotions children feel and that you can feel for your children too. Like I remember being crushed by my first days of school, not maybe the first day, but definitely the realization of like, oh, this is just it. Like, this is my life from now on is a school that will never end. Apparently. Yeah. I didn't have my soul completely crushed right out of the gate. I actually, my first couple of years of elementary school were pretty okay. Cause I went to a relatively small school where all the kids were relatively nice. And by the time I got

to third grade, and I moved out to California, I realized I was in way over my head, because I was going to public school, the kids were real assholes. And I had zero capacity for handling that. Kindergarten from the beginning, I think was almost like not good for me also, because I needed glasses in first grade. So that's when that awkwardness began and i i just also remember now it's this is like a nothing moment but as a kid this like made me it's one of the most humiliating moments for me as a kid even though it's nothing but it was that i we turned in a paper to the teacher like a worksheet something simple but I didn't put my name on it because I didn't think to put my name on it. I messed up.

And the teacher was like, who is this? Guess it's Mr. Nobody's. I'm going to sign this Mr. Nobody, and I'm going to put it on the Mr. Nobody board right here next to the board. And it hung there for a while just as an example for other kids to not leave their name off of things. I was humiliated. I recall that as a very humiliating moment of my childhood. I mean, I think everything was cool for me until high school. So lots of bullying and horrible alienation.

But yeah, school, I just didn't want to be there for sure. School will be fun is a great way to sum up what you know is going to happen to Bart, but what he doesn't know. Yeah. And I got to, I also got to call out on this when they, when they say outright 1990 and then play, don't worry, be happy. I mean, I am sure you heard that on the radio in 1990, but that song came out in 88. Like I think of that as an 80s song.

Yeah, I kind of do too. I definitely think of it as late 80s, but I can actually pinpoint probably a couple of shows and times, memories where I heard that song on the radio circa like early 90s. Like I feel like that song just refused to go away for a very long time. It was an inescapable song. I mean, Bobby McFerrin hates that that song is inescapable. It was early Hope Punk. Oh, God.

I'm sorry. The Simpsons will be right back. When you really care about someone, you shout it from the mountaintops. So on behalf of Desjardins Insurance, I'm standing 20,000 feet above sea level to tell our clients that we really care about you. We care about you. Home and auto insurance personalized to your needs. Weird, I don't remember saying that part. Visit Desjardins.com slash care and get insurance that's really big on care.

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If you'd like to get yourself your own Talking Simpsons t-shirt, we have two of them and they're both really cool. If you head to tiny.cc slash talking shirt, you can get one of two shirts, each designed by our wonderful friend of the show and previous guest, Nina Matsumoto, artist extraordinaire. One is a beautiful sky blue and it is a talking simpsons logo in the style of ion springfield and the other is a death metal black which is a tribute to our death stalks you

every turn death jingle with a certain grim reaper that might be familiar to some of you both of those start in 1999 they ship somewhat internationally and shipping and handling is added afterwards if you'd like to check them out for yourself they're really cool i got the i have one of each they are very high quality shirts at shirtsickle.com which is all where you can find it or again just go to tiny.cc slash talking shirt Do we have the Skinner clip? Because I have a few things to say about this. Oh, yes. Okay.

Welcome, kindergartners. I'm Principal Sinner. Skinner. Well, that's it. I've lost them forever. Now I'd like to introduce you to Lunch Lady Doris, who will serve you healthy, nutritious meals. Yeah, right.

Miss Phipps, the school nurse, who will provide ointments and unguents. And Jimbo, the school bully, who will administer noogies and nipple twisters. I look forward to wailing on all of you. There was a farmer who had a dog and Bingo was his name-o. B-I-O-B-I-O-B-I

and Bingo was his name-o. Added extra clap, not college material. Hey, we burn! High your hands for me heat! God, you understand English? So that Skinner clip, I wanted to point out, there's a lot of early Simpsons stuff packed into that scene. Skinner's early trait was misspeaking. And I believe that ended in Lisa's pony. That was one of his early traits, to say words incorrectly in front of an audience of people. So that was an early Skinner trait you've all probably forgotten.

I didn't until I watched the scene. Oh, I totally had. Yeah. It was like, they got rid of it for a reason. It wasn't funny. But also, Miss Phipps was the school nurse before the Lunch Lady Doris joke, I get two paychecks this way. And I think the last time she had a spoken line was in Camp Krusty. It was during the school countdown where they're all counting down until the last minute is over. And she's in the nurse's office. I believe Milhouse has a thermometer under his mouth, and he says one of the numbers, and she says, keep your mouth shut.

That's right. Or something like that. That is her last spoken line, I believe, in the season, or sorry, in the series. Wow. And the next time she appears as a school faculty member is in the PTA disbands, and she has blue hair. And then after that, she's just a background character.

She's just relegated to background character status. But she's a very season one design, and she was intended to be the school nurse. It feels like Al Jean again, just remembering like, what was the Bible for a season one? Who are these characters? Because I do remember her in season one where Bart goes to the nurse's office pretending to be sick and she dropped a bunch of tongue depressors on the floor

and is putting them back. Yeah, and in Barketson F, she's the one who sends him home or confirms that he's sick and has to stay home. That's right. Yeah. That's her largest role to date. But yeah, Miss Phipps, that was a school nurse at one point. And also, was that a posthumous Lunch Lady Doris recording or like an archived recording of Doris Grau? Because it was recorded at least after, more than a year after she died. So if they created this in 1995, they could have recorded it in 95 as well. Oh, you have a point, yeah. So this could be her final, I mean, yeah. I looked this up and it did say that this is the last time that Doris Grau appears as Lunch Lady Doris in an episode.

Alex's last episode was the previous time we'd heard her speak. I have no sense. Right. And that had aired a week after her death yeah and and now we're nine months after that no over a year after that and i mean her saying yeah right that could have just been sitting on their you know editing room floor like there's a million reasons doris growl would have said yeah right for any reason and And Al Jean and Mike Reese love Doris Grau, which is why she's a character in The Critic.

So it's not any weirdness why she's in this episode. It makes perfect sense. But it's so, so sad to hear her final line until Al Jean rather kind of rudely recasts her a few years. Not a fan of that. About a decade later. I mean, he realized the mistake and made her lunch lady Dora. So a totally different character that respects the history of Doris Crowe.

Yeah, that Skinner misspeaking. I remember he said medley, medley wrong. And stormy leather instead of stormy weather. Yeah, and you're right. The reasons those didn't continue after season two is because they're not that funny. I think in the Christmas episode when he's introducing the students, I think he messes up then too. Yes. Yeah. Like that's Skinner's first spoken line in broadcast history is misspeaking like that. So like possibly a toupee and misspeaking were his early characteristics.

It's incredible that you're able to pick this out because that is not even a character trait that I think I ever picked up on at any point in the history of the series. It is not funny. That's probably why. Yeah, that's a big part of it. Him being a extra boring single man who lives with his mother is so much more interesting than Guy Who Misspeaks. I mean, well, that feels it feels more like in the line of the Matt Groening, you know, simple vision of a family and being a student in school kind of thing, as opposed to how wild and ridiculous the show will get from there. Yeah. I mean, his name shows you what he was intended to be, a stern disciplinarian. He's named after B.F. Skinner, of course,

and we never think about that ever. No. I think in an episode that we're complaining is full of filler, I think they really missed an opportunity by not, when Bart gets on the bus, there should be his first meeting with Otto. Yeah, Otto origins. I mean, Otto, speaking of, I've been, this episode made me think a ton of seasons one and two, and Otto was his sounding board. Like they had an Otto scene almost every episode where Bart's like, hey, Otto, man, this thing at school made me sad. Well, you know what I say, a joke. Yeah. And Otto went back to his home planet after the Otto show. Pretty much. He'll get married in a few episodes or in a few seasons, I think.

Oh, God, that one is coming up soon, isn't it? That's the Poison Tribute Band episode, right? Yes. I think that's like season 12. We're still a little ways to go. Yeah. Apu has to get married first and then they can reuse. Wedding after wedding after wedding. Yeah.

Just as they predicted. Why does Willie wear red overalls in the past? That's an interesting choice too. It's weird. It's like a real Mario brothers thing. The overall colors change. Yeah. I mean,

I guess the only way you can depict like a little bit of youth, uh, comparatively, because obviously the characters don't really look any older is just, well, he has a slightly different costume. it just feels like a mistake to me and well the the design on everybody's like muppet baby style design they're cute i the only ones i think are slightly i think bart is really well done because he you know they shave

he has seven points on his hair instead of nine. And a bigger head, yeah. He's adorable. He's so adorable. A Milhouse later, super adorable. But the bullies are like, they're the ones that feel most Muppet babies to me. They're like, well, if we put a cute animal on their shirt, then it counts as them being cuter. I like that they, sorry, I didn't like that they did it twice. They did it once with Jimbo.

I was like, that's cute. But then Nelson has like a little baby chick on his shirt or whatever, instead of a skull. Actually, it should have just been a human head instead of a skull. Over time, it turned into a skull. Maybe a whale. Yeah, yeah. We come back from that story and Lisa is right to point out that

Bart's story overtook hers just because that's the first act. Just like in Lisa's first word. It's a story about Bart. Every time. And she can't escape him. And then Bart's just like, yeah, it's my story.

I took it over. And we also get a here for no reason. Here's a poo, which that's a funny line. That's I like that. All right. A poo makes a lot of surprise appearances in this episode that I like. Well,

there's only so much filler Abe can do on his own. You need, you need another character there. And why not a poo? You know, why not? And, you know,

I think of all the like fillery kind of throwaway jokes in this episode. That's the one that You know? Why not? And, you know, I think of all the, like, fillery kind of throwaway jokes in this episode. That's the one that I think I liked most is just, you know, he doesn't do anything really in this episode, but the two times he shows up,

I think both jokes kind of land. Mom, can you tell me the story of how I got my saxophone and not have it turn into a story about Bart? Oh, sure, honey.

Bart had just completed his first day at school, and Bart just... Mom! Hey, she's just giving the public what it wants. Bart by the barrel full. I'm sorry, Lisa. It's just how the story goes. No matter what Bart tried, he just couldn't fit in at school. A, B, C. Uh, line. D. D, E. Um, line. F. Bart. And believe me, you'll be seeing plenty of them. Oof. She's like an even more intense Miss Hoover, that character.

There's a reason that character never comes back either. She has no comedy to her. She's just mean. Just a mean kindergarten teacher. Mean cutting remarks with no comedy to them. Against a five-year-old, too. She's like, boy, you really owned that five-year-old lady. I mean, you're supposed to hate her.

I get it. It's so real the way Bart is gripping his shirt. Yeah. That's very well done kid action recreation there, I think. Yeah, it's a meaningful anxiety. And I will also say that the Bart saying, you know, Bart by the barrel full, giving the people what they want, that also feels a little bit like a 1995 joke, like referencing maybe the more of the specific

popularity of Bart Simpson in the early to mid nineties versus the time this episode came out. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Bart mania is firmly in the past, but 1990 was Bart mania though. Yeah. Which should have, I mean, that'd be like them not referencing Alf in in their 1984 episode. Like, it's just crazy. Oh, and right before that, there's a children drinking joke, which goes by really fast. But I have several flashbacks or dream sequences, very Family Guy style. Yeah. I do like the realistic version of an alcoholic, though, who says like, and I never drank again.

Glug, glug, glug, glug. That was a joke in A Star is Born. So it's like, I'll never drink again. Beer here. glug glug that was a joke in a starsburn says like i'll never drink again beer here i'll take 10 ah fuck you're right man they're just repeating themselves over and over now in joke court everybody i find them guilty but though as a kid i definitely got sad at school and like bart's being depressed in bed about school is that's an elementary school memory for me before i knew what depression was then you're depressed on the floor with real depression you graduate from the bed to the floor that's that's how it goes though okay so this is one of my most quibbly quibbles oh boy of jokes in this one bring it on i'm waiting for alex to just hang up yes i'm sorry alex i'm sorry no i'm here for it but

okay curious george the ebola virus one that's not very funny it's like okay monkeys are spreading this virus in africa which is like killing lots of people not particularly funny hey everybody everybody saw outbreak it's well yes so that's that's lame enough on it's on in 95 to be like we're making an outbreak joke but that's 95 5 97 outbreak joke even older but to then put it in the scene that specifically takes place in 1990 that will then like right after it have a twin peaks thing you're now doing a 1995 joke in 1990 like doesn't the specificity of 1990 give you some other joke to do than an obvious joke about curious george getting ebola which only works if it's set in 1995 or onward. I totally agree with you.

And there's another weird time thing where things slip between time periods that I don't like that we'll get to in Act 3. But there's some weird inconsistencies with the time period. It's just like, then don't do a flashback. If you can't stay consistent with it, then don't do it. If only because they were both so good

at keeping consistent, especially with Lisa's first word in I Married Marge. It was like like this is the year it takes place and also the way we was like this is 1974 everything is 1974 except for maybe like one thing yeah yeah i think i can't remember exactly if it was 95 or what or somewhere around that era but i do remember there being just like an incredible glut of ebola jokes around that just, you know, in late night comedy and just around. And I, I agree. I don't think that joke holds up as anything now. I feel like that is born out of a very specific referential thing that a lot of people were joking about necessarily writing actual punchlines for just referencing because just, I don't know, Ebola is somehow

inherently funny. You're right. I mean, I think we were all just in love with the term flesh eating virus. And that was the punchline. It's hilarious. It eats your flesh. Well, it feels like in the comedy world, we go like every few years when there would be, it was reacting to a heightened 5 p.m. news story, action news about killer bees or the Ebola virus or bird flu or these things that are actual, they are real threats. I'm not saying they're baked up by the media, but they are so overblown by the media that then every comedian has to joke about this. Like, hey, you hear about this bird flu? I had some Kentucky fried chicken and I think I got some or whatever. That was a bad joke. I got to fly to the bathroom, buddy. There you put it. I'll kick me on Jay Leno. So yeah, the Ebola virus, I think, was just another of those.

Like every comedian makes it. But I expect better from The Simpsons than to just make a joke about the hot new killer virus of the time. It feels a bit critique-y, a lot of these things. And then especially, you know, like you said, they follow it up with that Twin Peaks gag, which I actually think is one of the better referential bits from this era of The Simpsons. Like it's not a long gag. It's not a, you know, a labored gag. It's just one good bit of funny visual, you know, of a several years old show at that point that I thought, ah, you know, that's, that's funny. That's, that's Twin Peaks. Sure. Oh, totally. I, I really liked the Twin

Peaks jokes. And I think too, it works so well to make a 1990 reference. Some of the 1990 reference don't work as well in 95 or 97 because a lot of those things are still ongoing. But Twin Peaks is so specifically just 90 to 92, really, that when you make that joke, then you know it's happening then. Yeah, it exploded around the same time as The Simpsons. Like, they had the exact same, like, rise to power. Alex, Twin Peaks has still been a blind spot for me as a pop culture enthusiast, though. I mean, I've seen a million things that reference

it. I now just know it enough that it feels almost redundant to watch it. But are you a Twin Peaks fan, Alex? Yeah. So I was kind of where you were for a long time. I had watched the first season when it was on TV and understood almost none of it because I was just too young to even think in the kind of abstract terms that show was working in. And I remembered almost nothing about it, but I had definitely absorbed enough of the pop culture references that came afterward to sort of piece together what was going on in that show and why people loved it.

So when the return season came out a couple years ago, I dedicated myself to re-watching the entire series. And lo and behold, that first season still holds up very well. A huge chunk of that second season very much does not. But I do think that it is all totally worth watching at least once. And the return series is actually fantastic. I really love that show a lot. But the old series, they really had something with that first season. Yeah, yeah 2010 i played all of deadly premonition i hundred percent of that game it's one of my favorite games of all time and then i was like i should probably watch twin peaks after this and so i watched the first season and i loved it and then i was told to not watch the second season i was like i'm okay with that so i just only watched the first season and i was like boy

this this game should not exist it's it's illegal it's uh you should you should watch like the first like eight episodes of or nine episodes of the second season and then the last four. Everything in the middle is pretty skippable. I played Alan Wake. I felt I know another guy. Yeah, fair enough. The filler arc of Twin Peaks where they fight on another planet. Well, on Twin Peaks, don't they mainly pick up thermoses and batteries from Duracell?

Here's Homer watching Twin Peaks. That's damn fine coffee you got here in Twin Peaks. And damn good cherry pie. Brilliant! I have absolutely no idea what's going on. That was me. I think that's how many people felt in the 90s.

I think it was to the... Was it like the first prestige TV show of its time? I think before that, miniseries were really the prestige TV. So maybe the first network... God, I think it kind of felt like a miniseries because it was hour long episodes and they were all connected. So maybe, maybe it was the first, uh, I'm not sure actually. I mean, it definitely set the stage for what is certainly what became, you know, the, the modern definition of prestige TV. I mean, I, what I will say is that at that time, I don't remember a lot of filmmakers of caliber of david lynch even trying to do stuff in the tv space and i think that was kind of the thing that a lot of people

latched on to early on i was like oh this very important filmmaker is making this show so we all have to pay attention to it yeah that was kind of what drew a lot of people in initially i think before this prestige tv was outside of pbs it was mini series like roots and they had to be like historical but also not very avant-garde like Twin Peaks would be so maybe it was the first thing of this fashion and uh Marge showing him the paper or the drawing bar did I like that too because it's is a very realistic parent thing of like yeah look hey it's good do you want I will give a thumbs up to my child's art do I have to really look at it I I didn't um So I have a story about something similar that happened to me when I drew a picture as a kid in our class.

I don't know if I told it on this podcast before, but it was like, you know, draw your family and draw you. And I was a little artist. I like cartooning and I liked, you know, funny jokes and funny cartoons and comic books and stuff like that. In my drawing, I think I drew my parents like each drinking a beer because it's like, yeah, at the end of the day, my parents drink beer. I drink beer now as an adult you just drink beer you're an adult but it was like uh we got to call the parents in and talk about this and then i was told by my parents you never draw

us drinking beer if you're gonna draw a cartoon i was like okay but it was like a serious like a serious talk had to be had because in kindergarten i drew my parents drinking beer in in a family picture which um it's a good social commentary on my part i gotta say yeah i mean you didn't get to the stage where they called child protective services and you had to stay with the flanders for a while exactly exactly i mean we were really working class people you drink beer who cares but i mean these catholic schools are all uppity yeah uh and then there's another real season one throwback of the idea of playing catch with part two or not even just season one but like the shorts like homer is wearing a lucky red cap not bar yes yeah maybe that's the one he'll give to bart and they should do uh how he got his lucky red cap

episode i'd probably know they probably have i and there's so there's also so many jokes of like homer being mean to abe but i do like the presentation of this one that Abe is in a full 1919 pinstripe baseball outfit. And then when he's told to leave, he's like, I'm gone. He's there for the joke. He knows he's got to waste time and to tell a joke. When a boy doesn't want to play catch with his old man, something is seriously wrong. I'll play catch with you, son. Get the hell out

i'm gone and then also to check the box of the things you do in flashback episodes we get to see dr hibbert with a different look they make him mr t which again like 1990 mr t i mean they already gave him a 1993 haircut in uh in maggie makes three so i don't know what a 90 haircut would be i mean the joke with hibbert is his hair changes with every, you know, he has the fashionable hairstyle for a black man in every time period we see him in. I don't know if they've done that with future episodes, if they've done that hair joke.

I feel like if they were gonna do 1990, it would have had to be the hammer fade, and they probably would have had to give him really billowy pants to sort of kind of tile that together to a specific reference. I think the 93 one, he had sort of kind of tile that together to a specific reference i think the 93 when he had sort of a fade going on i think he did yeah more like an arsenio fade though yeah mr t for 1990 i mean again it's like yeah i just the 80s continued into the 90s for a while so it's

not like mr t wasn't heard of in the 90s but he was just his peak had passed a long time ago in the not by the time 1990 i didn't i didn't get that star of david thing but then i looked at mr teen he did wear a giant gold star of david but he wasn't jewish he's just like gold he's just very inclusive yeah yeah well i heard the story of his gold was that as a bouncer when he would throw people out of a club he would take their gold chains as like uh scalping them. It's like an RPG or something. And so that's, originally all of his gold was to present

how rich, or how good he was at throwing people out of the place because those were all the ones he'd collected. I believe that was his old story for it. I'll trust him on that one. I'll take him at face value. All I know is that he loves his mother. I know he really really loves his mother. Everybody go out and

watch the Immortal VHS classic Be Somebody or Be Somebody's Fool and the song Treat Your Mama Right. It's really good. It's a magical tune. Speaking of all these season one returns. Yes, finally. The return of Dr. J. Lauren Pryor.

Mr. and Mrs. Simpson, there's nothing to be alarmed about. Public school can be intimidating to a young child, particularly one with as many flamboyantly homosexual tendencies as your son. Bart's gay? Bart? Wrong file. The point I'm trying to make here is that Bart must learn to be less of an individual and more a faceless slug. Lisa, how old are you?

I am three and three-eighths. Lisa, if I have five apples and I take away three apples, how many apples do I have left? Two apples. Wait a minute. She's right. Very good. Marge, Homer, I believe your Lisa may be gifted. That's wonderful. But still, can't you do anything for Bart?

Marge, he's five. His life is over. Lisa's the wave of the future. Wave of the future! That's right, honey. So J. Lauren Pryor, like Miss Phipps, was killed in a Springfield explosion. It doesn't appear anymore. Not really. That's just my theory.

But he actually came back. So Harry is giving him a different voice. His first major role was in Bart the Genius, showing that Bart was, you know, he was fooled into thinking Bart was a genius. Actually, if you look in his office in this episode, he's got the picture of Einstein and somebody else. It used to be Bart. I think, oh yeah, I think that's Freud. I read that as Freud. Yeah, Freud and Einstein together, but one of those was Bart in Bart the Genius. And Harry is giving him a different voice because he sounded a lot like Flanders in Bart the Genius. It wasn't that the dry voice he's doing here. It was much a little pepier, but he's a

nobody. He doesn't have a character, and like many of the characters from this era, he was named, his name is a joke. His name is J.

Lauren Pryor because he pries into people's lives, just like Mr. Largo named after the musical term, and Artie Pie with Artie in the Sky, and like it was, all these

things are very season one in that the character's name is a joke, like Skinner. Skinner is named after B.F. Skinner. Crabapple, like Crabapple. It was very much the convention of naming these initial characters that they dropped.

Nelson Muntz was after a full Nelson wrestling move. J. Lauren Pryor, I can totally see why he was invented for Bart the Genius, because with all the problems Bart gets into at school, a guidance counselor seems very useful. Like, oh yeah, he'll go to his guidance counselor a lot. Or this professional at school, he's going to reflect on a bunch. And they pretty rarely use him. The last time he was used in a major way was separate vocations. Yeah, that's true. And I think they discovered it's just funnier if he goes to see Skinner. It's a funnier interaction. Let's cut out the middleman and just send him to Skinner already. He did come back for a 2011 episode,

I found out, in a major role. His last major role, it was an episode about Marge's hair turning gray. Ah, I see. I mean, I think one can probably assume that the Springfield school system budget only allows him to show up for a few days per school year.

It's true. We don't know what became of Mr. Glasscock. I mean, i would assume suicide sorry that was too dark but save that for moe uh but so yes uh separate vocations was the last time it needed him for a joke purposes because it was about the things the guidance counselor would do which is tell you what your future career would be, which is pretty useless now. I think, or even then, I actually, I expected when I saw Jay and Lauren Pryor as a kid, I thought like, well, I guess this will be something that happens in my elementary school. I never once, I did go to a guidance counselor once, but they were just a person to hand out detention. The

one time I ever got detention in a referral. They guide you to the detention room. Pretty much. That was my experience with a guidance counselor. I didn't have a real guidance counselor until i was in high school and the guy i had was deeply ineffectual at like a molecular level like just had no real understanding of anything kids were telling him beyond you know what kind of what he understood as his role as like a guy just like yeah i don't know uh you know maybe these electives aren't good for you maybe you should try this other thing instead of metal shop. I don't know.

Like he just, he seemed completely out of his depth, which was perfect for the school system that I was in. There's a lot of failings of, I mean, Lisa's whole tragedy in this episode is that she is gifted. And that means she shouldn't be in a public school because there's no place for her there. It would be a waste for her. They don't knock that system enough in this episode, really, I think. They should be mad of like, well, why do we have to send Lisa to another school so she can be nurtured? Why can't the school do this? They should have better funding and better staff members i mean that is kind of one of the sticking points of the simpsons overall is that you know they're they're very happy to

rail on the broken systems like you know the the american public education system but they're never really apt to interrogate it too much deep beyond too much deeper beyond that it's just no schools are irreparably broken of course we are sending her or want to send her to a private school because that's what normal people would want to do to try to get them away from the public school system. You can't fight City Hall. It's all useless. Why bother? Exactly.

Well, I mean, definitely the Simpsons are like, let's do a half-assed job is the message of the show in general. So I get not wanting to try. But yet, having been to a private school, though, I can tell you the education is not much better. And, you know, a lot of private schools popped up in the 50s for some reason who knows i wonder why that happened yeah no supreme court ruling happened don't worry about it uh well though i i i wasn't officially a gifted kid in elementary school too and i kind of like lisa i kind of regret it now i I, I think I did. It was, I think it was a net positive. If you were to balance the pros and cons of being a gifted kid, I got opportunities. I wouldn't have, I got, it gave me a boost in self-esteem, which I

really needed as a depressed elementary school kid. When you really care about someone, you shouted from the mountaintops. So on behalf of Desjardins Insurance, I'm standing 20,000 feet above sea level to tell our clients that we really care about you. Home and auto insurance personalized to your needs. Weird, I don't remember saying that part. Visit Desjardins.com slash care and get insurance that's really big on care. Did I mention that we care oppositely though i think it gave me a little too much like i'm smarter than everybody else fuck homework like that kind of sense that that really did me wrong it didn't teach me the skills i needed yeah it was also funny and that we talked about this before on pot on other podcasts but it's

like we'll give you the better education outside of the school come to this van and learn better things like why can't it take place in the school it just can't come to the van i went to a slightly different route in that uh i was never in a specific like gifted kid program or anything like that but i started school a year earlier than all the other kids in my class so i was like i was about 11 months younger than just about everyone else in my class going so I didn't skip any grades or anything like that I just started a little bit earlier and uh you know that was fine but also I think there might have been there might have been some benefit to me getting away from like the the standard education system because I feel like I kind of drowned a

little bit in that especially on the social end of things yeah me too it and being a gifted kid didn't help that it didn't help me all that much socially either because gifted classes were part of my time in elementary school but not the whole time but it did take me out of class enough that it was like i wasn't i was a nerdy kid i wasn't making too many friends anyway but it didn't help that i was out of the classroom for hours of the day and letting them know like well this person's different in that he is apparently smarter than you so you know he's got glasses get you the the roadmap has been laid out for you kids you don't need any more proof he's a nerd get him i do uh as it's time for henry's gay corner but i do like the

the homosexual joke is funny to me but also it's it's a sadly tragic thing about like this does happen to a lot of queer lgbt kids where they are outed by a trusted school teacher or school member to parents and that is a dangerous thing to do like that not not all parents respond positively to hearing that their kid might be LGBT. But it's a funny, here it's funny that they're like, ha ha, Milhouse is gay. Very funny. Milhouse is not gay, though. Do they ever really follow up on that, though?

I feel like there are jokes about it, but every time they flash forward to Milhouse in the future, it's not that they ever actually establish that, in fact, Milhouse is gay. It's just that they see him as having these tendencies toward homosexuality but i feel like they never actually pay that off anytime we ever see what millhouse turns out to be yeah actually millhouse and in all futures is straight like painfully straight for lisa honestly the joke works better if it's martin prince but that's if you see that name on a folder that doesn't register for most people so you wouldn't necessarily laugh at it i mean the joke could also be that the jay lorne prior is is being very homophobic and even reading

millhouse's behavior which is just labeling it as homosexual is a horrible shitty thing he's doing to a person when they're a child they there's no signs of sexuality in general like it's so it's it's him overstepping his boundary sure there as well on prior's case i do also love lisa screaming wave of the future yardley and nancy do a really good job of like bringing down the age of their voices in this episode and i also like that he uh he responds to lisa very clearly understanding what fractions are with like the simplest math problem imaginable that's true and that's how we decide she's gifted. Yeah.

Wow. I never thought of that. Also good animation on making a puzzle like that is, uh, that's not an easy thing to draw. You know, I should have said this when we were making fun of family guy early in the episode, but that Dominic Paul Chino is the director on this and he was, he has a long history working on family guy. He only worked on Simpsons for a few years and then left for family guy the school that they take lisa to is basically the bart the genius school actually yeah with some of the same jokes in the background

really yeah well why write a new one who cares uh which if they're going to bring back season one people use that teacher played also played by marcia wallace in that episode but instead they find out that they just can't afford it not the biggest fan of the implication that the only people who get free college or minorities like or free teaching as minorities not a fan of that joke kind of kind of not really very mid to late 90s perception of things like affirmative action and whatnot like that was very much how that kind of policy was talked about in a sort of like, sort of casually dismissive way, especially by, you know, by white people, frankly.

Oh, I guess I don't get any help because I'm not a minority. Like, yuck. Yeah, that style of joke, I am not a fan of. But you know, they could buy Lisa some clay, buy her some clay. That's cheaper than a saxophone will end up being. I do like this act break that sums up the hell that is being a sitcom character where nothing ever changes.

Poor Marge. Our family was suffering through its worst crisis ever. Bart was miserable at school, and Lisa's gifts were going to waste. Uh, Homer, it's five years later and I'm still miserable at school and Lisa's gifts were going to waste. Uh, Homer, it's five years later and I'm still miserable at school. And my gifts are still going to waste. And sometimes I feel so smothered by this family I just want to scream till my lungs explode.

Right, I'll go start dinner now. You do that. That little, that last Marge like, like, ooh, boy, she's... I think i missed that when i was watching it for this uh for this run i only caught it in the audio clippage because it's it adds an extra punctuation to like there's marge again swallowing her rage at being trapped in this house how many seasons removed are we from marge's big breakdown? Six. Yeah. Wow.

So again, nothing has really changed at all. She is still just, you know, her emotions are just like clawing and screaming to get out while she is stifling them and just trying to, you know, maintain domestic bliss. She's not being appreciated. They're not all sleeping in the same bed anymore. Well, and her hair isn't like flying off her head like it was in Sherry Bobbins either.

Right. So act three is where i forget everything that happens in this episode there's a story problem that i don't like where suddenly so i liked when uh in the earlier episodes where there was an economy to the simpsons world it's like we have this much money and there's a lot of episodes about the conflict of like we need more money to get this we need more money to have this we need to make sacrifices and i don't like in this episode that this heat wave is introduced in act three and is the sort of conflict where it's like, can Homer have some slight, you know, comfort for a week? Or does Lisa get a saxophone? It doesn't

really, doesn't really track for me. And then later, not to spoil things or not to jump too far ahead, the heat wave now exists in the present and suddenly there's an air conditioner fund in the present that was never mentioned. I think it's a bad conflict. I get the reason for doing that because they want a choice Homer has to make. Like his Homer for once puts somebody else's happiness over his.

Like, so I get that choice they give to him. I think my biggest problem with it is that they don't, they have all this filler in the first two acts. It's like, you couldn't mention the air conditioner then? It should have been put in earlier. I agree. And I feel like a lot of this feels artificial and a bit superfluous because this heatwave stuff apparently is from another unproduced script that they wrote. Like they put in that material from that script into this third act, like a lot of the heatwave jokes or jokes about, you know, the conflict that can come from having a heatwave. And maybe Homer wanted to buy an air conditioner

and there was another thing the family needed. But the other money conflicts were a lot better, like, can they get money or will the dog die? That's more high stakes. And can they get money or will Homer be uncomfortable for a small amount of time? Yeah, I agree. It's kind of a weak conflict. The one pass I will give it is that the visual gag of homer's attempted uh air conditioning thievery is one of the better examples of him just being really really bad at crime yeah i love that and that does feel like it was taken right from that episode they didn't make because it does stand alone but you know at the same time i will say the heat wave is maybe the only part of that that doesn't bother me because you know hey those, those heat waves, they're happening with a much greater frequency.

That's true. These days. But I will say that the thing that maybe doesn't tie it all together for me and the thing I agree with Bob most on is that why did it take five years for them to save $200 more to buy an air conditioner? Like the timeline of that does not really make any sense at all. Yeah, they've never been this poor and i also well this is another real early seasons kind of callback because in the bill and josh years for comedic

sake though they i though it hurts plotting wise they just created the joke of like homer has a thousand dollars in his wallet if bart says i need seven hundred dollars to buy an issue scratchy cell he pulls it out of his wallet and hands it to him. Like they, money became meaningless at a certain point in the Simpsons household. So it always feels weird when they bring it back to like, well, we can't afford $200. Like that, that is quite extreme. I mean, you know, people are used to being living paycheck to paycheck now, but in the nineties, come on. We were living large on those Clinton books. Yeah. And I also feel like not to go too long about this, but the first act of bard of darkness has way better heat wave jokes including how homer improvises the refrigerator into an air conditioning device with building a tent around it it's cool in here boy

yeah no that's that's a really good bit and i agree heat wave stuff has been done better a lot of the aspects of this third act have been done better elsewhere in the series that said flanders having to be like actually having to ask the question, did you steal my air conditioner despite the footprints and the fucking, the trail leading back to the house and like the jury rigged sort of like wooden setup to keep the air conditioner into the window.

Like I'm almost willing to forgive it all just for that joke. Some rare anger from Flanders. Yeah, he's, well in the the 1990 he should be maybe he's less used to this by now too with home it's true yeah well so when the act begins we get the funky grandpa scene which that also is another callback a joke about grandpa's teeth is another very gene and reese era thing like the actually it wasn't it was just in Springfield Files that a turtle stole his teeth. So there's some repetition of jokes here.

I do like, though, I like his speech about the funky grandpa. Me too. Well, grandpa, as long as you're here, we were telling a story that took place when Barbara was five and Lisa was three. Oh, I know this story. The year is 1906. The president is a divine Miss Sarah Bernhardt. And all over America, people were doing a dance called the Funky Grandpa. Oh, I'm the...

Yes. Well, as if our troubles weren't bad enough, Springfield was going through an unseasonable heat wave. And so Springfield's heat wave continues, with today's temperature exceeding the record for this date. Set way back four billion years ago when the Earth was just a ball of molten lava. Oh, so hot. So Sarah Bernhardt died in 1923, in case you're wondering how old Grandpa is. That's one of the ones I never bother to look up. I actually genuinely don't know who Sarah Bernhardt died in 1923, in case you're wondering how old Grandpa is. That's one of the ones I never bothered to look up. I actually genuinely don't know who Sarah Bernhardt is. She was a famous stage actress who became a silent movie star.

Okay. Honestly, you have informed me now, Bob, because I always heard that as Sandra Bernhardt, the comedian. Comedian. Yeah, and I was just like, oh, it's random that he would be referencing something so new uh they spell and pronounce their names differently okay and we get some nice uh by the way frozen peas are the comedy food item i've noticed they just appeared in uh principal and the pauper these are armin's frozen peas yeah and homer is icing his butt down frozen peas that's uh that's a funny place to put those but yeah actually in the heat wave gags

in Bard of Darkness, he also is rubbing himself with frozen foods. And also full of country goodness and green penis from the critic. Frozen peas. The best frozen pea joke. Yes. That is the greatest.

Frozen peas are just the funniest food. Green penis is one of the, I fucking love it. That's terrible. That's terrible. And then when they talk about art versus uh air conditioning like i do like the gag well i don't love it the the homer's you know imagination but it also reminds me of mom and pop art the next episode gene will al gene will have soul writing credit on so i wonder if he was thinking you know if this is what led him to like we should do a whole one about homer becoming an artist and him interacting at museums which it's uh it's it's sad

but sadly realistic of a father going like one saturday a month of the museum no way nah yeah the the stealing of the thing also fits with springfield files again they did stealing the weather vane they repeated them They repeated the stealing thing. Oh, right. Wow. I mean, that was a very early Homer-Flanders interaction of having stolen items from him. Though I did appreciate, too, the accuracy of it is the white Snowball One is the cat in these flashbacks because she has yet to be run over. By Clovis Quimby.

Oh, is that who actually killed Snowball One? It's mentioned in Treehouse of Horror 3, right? Yeah, so that is a Halloween episode, so it's somewhat in question. Snowball One was run over by Mayor Quimby's beer-swilling brother, Clovis, was the line, I believe. You never actually see Clovis, though, do we? Clovis is a character only mentioned.

He's the real Billy Carter of the Quimby family but yeah yeah perhaps he's visible at the quimby compound with the uh where the beat up waiter happens ah yes although this ode to recirculated air and air conditioning it's something i i mean i i grew to love the smell of recirculated air growing up in Florida. And now it is like, I barely ever experienced it anymore living in the Bay area. It's one of the nicest things about living in the Bay area. It is. Yeah. Growing up. Like, so I lived in Virginia when I was a little kid and I remember, you know, air conditioning essentially being ubiquitous because the second the summer comes around, uh, it is difficult to live without it. And moving to California, it was interesting being

like, oh yeah, it's hot, but like not that bad. And just like, if you talk to any Northern California homeowner, you talk about having, you know, central air or air conditioning, they're like, why would we ever have that? And now that I'm back on the East coast, it's just like, it is a dire necessity. It was weird for me the first time when I moved out of here and looking at apartments, because I just kept thinking like, but where's the AC? How do I control this? And it's just there. You open a window and have a nice breeze. That's how you control the temperature. But somehow, even in Southern California, where you don't necessarily get the nice breeze,

people are still just not married to this idea of air conditioning. It's just somehow not ingrained geographically in people who live on the West Coast. Now, that's bonkers to me because when we recorded in LA last summer, it was torture without the AC on in that place. I felt so bad though for our guests because it's like, hey, let's record a podcast.

We do have to turn the AC off while we record though. And so it was just talking about The Simpsons and dripping with sweat. That was... We then get to see the first meeting

of Bart and Milhouse. Hi. Hi. I have soy milk. The doctor says the real kind could kill me. I wish I was interesting like you. You're funny.

I am? Yeah. And the world needs a clown. Hmm. I like seeing cute little Milhouse with his shorter hair and his awkwardness. Though I do, now him drinking soy, it means a different thing now than it used to. It does. That takes on a different connotation in 2019 terms. I freeze-framed that image. I wanted to put it online just because it says so much.

Like baby Milhouse holding a big thing of soy milk. And actually bart on the road we have martin screaming soy soy soy so uh new meaning new meaning yeah no i i mean it shows that like you know for the longest time soy is associated with what uh less masculine people do even though that's like complete bullshit like this is not we do not agree though that's like complete bullshit. This is not, we do not agree with that. It's all been debunked, don't worry. It's a delightful protein. Everyone should try it.

Yeah. It's better in so many ways. Well, also like I have, I think I stayed away from milk substitutes like that because it got, you know, lightly made fun of. It's like, well, Milhouse drinks it, so you're a dork if you can't, or you're too weak. It almost had the message here of like, you're too weak to exist if you can't drink real milk, like a real man. But so for the longest time I drank regular milk, even though it would often upset my stomach,

I broke down to skim milk. And finally, about five years ago, I realized like, if I'm just drinking skim milk, aren't I doing almond milk what's the what what's the point here everyone knows that true masculinity is trying to beat your digestive system into submission that's just that's how it works that's what you're supposed to do you you are the master of your domain I mean John Wayne had a very impacted colon at death, so I think that shows you right there. It's a race to who can die first. So Bart's class clowning, I like how it's not clever.

Yeah, yeah. It's kindergarten. Yeah, exactly. But they could have, you know, another show could have written him to have like, no, these jokes that Bart says should be funny, or they could be smart. But like, no, Bart is a kinderg kindergartner and farts are funny that's that's all there is to it i guess this is the origin of eat my shorts as well yes yeah this is a very big this really yes like like you said bob like lisa's first words this has become the bart story of his first eat my shorts not his sex. You know, Bart's funnier. Let's do more Bart things. Doody.

Bugger. Now that is killer material. Skinner is a nut. He has a rubber butt. Young man, I can assure you my posterior is nothing more than flesh, bone,

and that metal plate I got a nam. I want you to knock off that potty talk right now. The principal said potty. You listen to me, son. You've just started school, and the path you choose now may be the one you follow for the rest of your life. Now, what do you say?

Eat my shorts. All right, I'll eat... Eat your shorts Alright, I'll eat Eat your shorts Yeah, eat my shorts Buttman Buttman Buttman He's the greatest showman Since that kid who eats worms

My 15 minutes of labor are over The foley on that just turns my stomach So greatly It grossed me out more hearing it than seeing it Yeah And the worms in his mouth are not particularly realistic looking worms They're the big cartoony bulbous one as opposed to the really wet, skinny, slimy ones. Oh, boy, you're making this all the more appetizing.

Yeah, no, I'm really, that's what I'm here for. That Buttman song that also is a, it's a favorite of Simpsons to use the Batman theme because Fox owns that theme, so they don't have to pay anybody to use it. And when Bart is first seen on TV, he's thinking about Batman. Holy crap, you're right. At first seen on this series, not on Tracey Ullman.

And Skinner yanks him off away from a group of people in that same situation too. It is definitely unintended by Gene because he had no clue this would air after Armand Tamzarian. But hearing him do a typical skinner went to vietnam joke right after arm and tam's arian it has a completely different meaning oh yeah than than gene intended just by seeing it in broadcast order though i do like the little like he's his eye twitches when he says that uh that metal plate in his butt from vietnam which like uh it implies he's uh skinner goes through a lot i don't think they put metal plates in his butt from Vietnam, which like, uh, it implies he's a Skinner goes through a lot.

I don't think they put metal plates in your butt though. Maybe I'm wrong, but it's funnier. It is funny. I believe these days, if, uh, that eat my shorts line were delivered in a modern context,

it would be immediately, uh, accompanied by that gift of all the kids freaking out because, you know, someone just dropped like, you know, the ultimate line on someone. Uh, for sure. Oh God. The one with the kid, like slapping both hands on the side of his face

and falling over that one. Yeah, exactly. I mean, they could even put that meme on the show. They, we didn't mention it. Uh, we are in the post Simpsons memeing itself world of Lisa replying to Homer with the Homer sinking into the bushes scene. Like that's, that's pretty amazing. You know, I haven't been keeping up with the show recently and you telling me that is telling me that I've probably made the right choice. Well,

that breaks the rule. Bob, you said it. I'm not going to steal from you. I don't know what the rule. Don't remind me of a better episode. Yes. The MST three K rule of don't remind me of something better in your thing.

Yeah. Which when you see Homer going into the bushes, you're like, oh yeah, that was a funny episode. I want to watch Homer Love Slanders now. Bart gets a satisfying ending to his story, but what about Lisa? Well, Mo, this is it. Today's the day I get my new air conditioner. Congratulations. Who's the little chick? I'm Lisa. She has a gift.

You have 13 pickled eggs in this jar. And one cockroach. Ha ha ha ha ha. Who are you, sweetheart? The health inspector? No, but I am. Ah, here, have a margarita. Uh, that's a parasol.

I like pickled egg mo jokes. Those are consistent across showrunners. We saw the black pickled egg in the New York episode. Yeah, just a little bit ago. I think I've only ever been to one actual bar that definitely had pickled eggs in a jar like that. And it was definitely the diviest bar that I used to frequent. How much would you charge for one of those pickled eggs?

Couldn't be more than a quarter back then i would hope not yeah i yeah you know it feels like a very your dad's bar kind of thing even in for our generation uh your dad's bar yeah the bar i'm thinking of was very much before the the rowdy punk teens kind of took it over and made it theirs. It was definitely the town's most dad bar. And it's actually pretty dark that he's taking Lisa to a bar. Yeah, at night. That's his response to being told

to give her more attention is to take her to Moe's with him. But I guess this is where the story wraps up. And again, I'm not a fan of this conflict because it's like Homer has the money to buy a saxophone and he does. And he not currently hot no one else is currently hot there's one scene of him being hot and that's it just like is it is it really hot outside yeah actually it should be very hot right then yeah like mo should be wiping his brow they should all be sweating it should be

just be like more about the heat wave sell the heat wave like oh it could be as simple as when he leaves mo's he goes like food so hot outside man oh well let's walk home well and then he sees the air conditioner yeah yeah no he just he just sees the air conditioner and just you know immediately his brain goes to ah yes sweet recirculated air and uh that's i i do like a fun patty and selma are awful scene that's nice though those are they don't do enough of those. But then it's also very like, it was something I didn't get as a kid. Now seeing it

it bothers me that like Homer just let Lisa walk across the street to King Toots. Oh, you're right. But should it be across the street from Moe's though? It should be right next to Moe's. It's weird, like the air conditioning store is next to Moe's, but they moved King Toots across. Maybe King Toots had moved next to Moe's over time.

Later he got where It Blows was five years later. That's what happened. The premium Moe's. It's because he didn't buy that air conditioner. They went out of business. Oh my God. Yeah. I'm only pointing this out because it seems like they should pay attention to this

because that was in Lisa's Pony, which is when King Toots was established being next to Moe's. I mean, even having the plot point that they leave mose and are immediately at king toots that is them noticing the proximity of king toots to mose for plot purposes so it's just one step removed from being exactly accurate when they want to make an accurate reference but hey we already created a head canon of why that's true across the street good enough for me well i do like, I do like seeing King Toots again from Lisa's Pony.

And even Joey Jojo Jr. Shabadoo runs the place still. But I think, too, the music stuff always sticks with Al Jean because he's mentioned his brother plays the saxophone. His brother is professionally a saxophonist. So the musical instruments and family really do speak to Gene. So I like that it's coming from that kind of personal space for him. The episode hinges on the sweetness of the moment of Homer buying her the sax. That's what this is all about. And I do think they execute it well in this next clip I'm going to play.

I actually, I like this moment so much, I bought a little cartoon drawing of the moment. That's right. That's from this episode. Yeah, it's hanging on the wall of my apartment of Homer pointing at things and saying, which, you know, it's funny, but also like, come on, Homer. Musical instrument? Would that be a way to encourage a gifted child?

Just give me a sign. It works for me What do you like Lisa by a Malin to bum a bar Oh boom a bow that one Oh That's a muffled $200? $200? Oh, I'll take it. Would you like an inscription, sir? Yeah. To Lisa. Never

forget your daddy love. Don't! And that inscription is still there today. It's a very sweet moment. Yeah, I think Harry changed that guy's voice, too. It was like, I happen to be that moron. Yep, yeah, that was a little different. Yeah, there was definitely a little bit more of a sniveling tone in the previous iteration.

And also, that saxophone is from the Foster Home episode. Ah, yes, yeah. When Homer misses Lisa. I think that was the last time they talked about her saxophone. Maybe, yeah. Because they found a lot more other ways to show Lisa to be an intelligent beyond her years kid they didn't need. Like Bird Camp.

Like Bird Camp. Or her German language wheel, didn't need like bird camp but like bird camp or or her uh or german language wheel too like things like that so they kind of like got less interested in the sax being the thing i do think like the the three-year-old that can play the saxophone like that's a viral video star right there and 200 for a saxophone even in 1990 it seems like a steal well i will say a little research on this it actually is accurate for now really uh when i went to uh well the seo the the first google result for beginner saxophones is what we should definitely trust on this but uh but yeah on amazon there are beginners like learner saxophones and they do run in the $200 range.

And that is the most you would buy the beginner version for a three-year-old. Like, there's no way. I mean, a three-year-old who isn't Lisa is going to break. I broke everything I was given as a three-year-old. She could be as cool as Mr. B Natural now. Oh, boy. So number two, so the heatwave thing I don't like But number two They did

Al Jean did a sentimental Lisa's sax story With Round Springfield In which Bleeding Gums Gives Lisa His saxophone And then he dies

So are we to believe She has two saxophones? Is this a magic saxophone? I want answers When you really care about someone You shout it from the mountaintops so on behalf of desjardins insurance i'm standing 20 000 feet above sea level to tell our clients that we really care about you home and auto insurance personalized to your needs weird i don't remember saying that part

visit desjardins.com care and get insurance that's really big on care. Did I mention that we care? I think it's completely fair to think that maybe perhaps, you know, she has her one that she got from her mentor and then she has this other saxophone that she, you know,

got from her dad that she has sentimental attachment to. It's entirely possible for them to own two saxophones i don't mind the logic the other one got sold you know for you know because they needed to pay their mortgage that that month or something i mean i don't mind the logic but just like you already did the saxophone story like yeah yeah and the bleep pingum's murphy story is admittedly like i think a much more emotionally resonant episode because there is an actual character that you can kind of latch onto and attach to yeah we didn't like story we didn't like it that much but I like it more than this I think there's more of a through line uh and more of an emotional beat

and less like distracted by Bart yeah Henry's thinking about it yeah no I agree I agree I yeah I don't I guess uh I do love Lisa Sacks is a great place for emotion. But yeah, when you think about how, you know, this happened over three years, but in three different seasons, Gene and Reese oversaw six episodes and that two of them are about Lisa's saxophone and the emotional, the emotional core of the episode is her saxophone. It does just feel slightly repetitive. Yeah, definitely. And, you know, like I said, I, you know there's a a personal element of this episode the the sort of you know the the cherished attachment to your first instrument and you know sort of your parents kind of you know trying to support your your early gifts that i i

think does resonate to a degree but like as an entire episode of television i'd say maybe half of it actually works yeah you're right i i, I do really like the idea that Lisa, she doesn't remember how she got her saxophone. And that kind of speaks to, as a kid, you don't really think of the sacrifices a parent had made for you, perhaps. And you just think like, well, yeah, and I just had this thing. Because you were a kid. You didn't know your parents had to give something up to give you a nice thing.

Like all their dreams. Like all their dreams. All their dreams all their money security happiness all those things for sure it's all of that and also just i can you remember anything from when you were three years old because i sure as hell can't no no i believe the earliest memory i've always held on to i was maybe four i just remember sitting in front like seeing a pie and thinking that pie this sounds like i make a bad joke about what you eat this pie yeah i think i remember drawing a penguin when i was three that's that's really my first memory i have a very specific memory from what i'm told is my second birthday of me launching my face into a cake. But it's a complete blank from there until kindergarten.

You knocked yourself out and were hospitalized for cake injury. I mean, I did give myself a concussion as a kid, but that's a story for another day. So, we do get to see Homer make the fateful decision of what to do with his air conditioner money while getting roasted on all sides.

Wow. So that's how Lisa got her sacks. Next, I'll tell you the origin of Maggie's pacifier. What origin? We get them for $1.95 down at the Safeway. Well, I really liked that story. But it still doesn't fix this. You know, Homer, I think we have some money in the air conditioner account again.

Oh, but Marge, am I doomed to spend the rest of my life sweating like a pig? Yeah, not to mention looking like a pig, eating like a pig. Don't forget the smell. You get off my front lawn. Why don't you make me? Why? Oh, I give up. Well, don't worry about me, Dad. It's not how it looks, it's how

it sounds. Oh. Well, sir, we got a scorcher today, and to cool off, nothing beats Fruitopia, the iced tea brewed by hippies, but distributed by a heartless multinational corporation. Fruitopia, huh? That's, by hippies, but distributed by a heartless multinational corporation.

Fruitopia, huh? That also sets it very much in 1995. I drank my share of Fruitopia. Well, the truth is, Fruitopia, it was never brewed by hippies. It was always a Coca-Cola product, as I had learned. Snapple could at least say at one time they were not a multinational corporation they were a mom and pop thing that then went nationwide but fruitopia exists because they saw how big coca-cola saw how big snapple was getting they said we could make

that so they called it fruitopia and pretended it was being made by hippies and they crushed snapple when was the last time you saw a snale in your life? Fruitopia is the dead one. You can't see Fruitopia. I don't see Snapple anywhere, though. I still occasionally see Snapple at the grocery store that I go to regularly, but it is not in great volume. You gotta bring back the Snapple lady, and then they

can start selling it again. Those heady Snapple days are over. And we got the time-honored filler of Vin Scully on the thing, thing too oh yeah well i mean harry sheer doing you can imitate fin scully uh yeah but again it's like so now now homer needs an air conditioner in the present and now it's hot in the present like it doesn't track for me it's like establish that it's hot in act one and speaking of hot remember that air conditioner fun and then go into your store i don't know just like i want i this thing should

be earlier than act three this this whole heat wave thing in the past and the present there's two heat waves well bob they just didn't have time with fully recreating the all in the family opening erase one grandpa joke or two uh homer dream sequences but make sure to keep apu on the front lawn yes that's a good bit that's a good like when homer immediately gives up uh getting off the couch, like, I give up. Why don't we give that line to the end? Yeah, let's do it. Also, you know what?

I'm going to throw a weird nitpick in here too. Go for it. Why do they reference the Safeway when they're talking about Maggie's Pass Fire? Because I think it's pretty heavily established that the only place that they shop is the Quickie Mart. Yeah. Yeah.

Maybe that's why Apu's spying on them to find out their Shopping habits Yeah Well also there's We've never seen A Safeway in Springfield Before

It doesn't exist It's such a Yeah She could say Quickie Mart You know what Let's fix up that joke There too

We have to play a line Of the show jingle To make sure everyone's happy So that was for the Homer getting off the couch line That's the joke. So one of three surprise Apus in this episode. I forgot about,

I thought that was an all singing, all dancing where Apu appears unnaturally, but it's in this episode. Did I somehow manage to mess up the joke of the week cue both times I've been on this show? You may have. It's okay.

It's okay. You're just too excited. It'll all come out in the edit. Don't worry. So then we get Lisa playing the sax sax so you also get a clip montage in this episode too just to fill some time there's some fun burns on al jean by mike reese on the commentary and when this montage is playing and he's like gee it's just the greatest hits of your career al it is mostly episodes he either has writing credit on or credit on or he executive produced. Yeah.

And yeah, the song there is Jerry Rafferty's Baker Street. Well, those specifically the the famous saxophone solo riff in it, which is not the only like there are lyrics to that song. But who remembers? It's about Sherlock Holmes, right? Is it? I mean, he lives on Baker Street. That's true. Yeah.

No, that is that is the saxophone line of that era. Like, there are two songs that I immediately identify with the instrument of the saxophone. It is Baker Street and it is Glenn Frey's You Belong to the City. Oh, yeah, yeah. And I think they're more famous than the two. Yeah, I think this is a great riff for Lisa to play

that makes you like, I remember that song. It's a good good they're good at you know they license a lot of songs in the these gene and reese satellite episodes i they must have a bigger song license budget than the the regular show had perhaps but this use of baker street is great it did lead me to look up that there's controversy in the writing of this song no so jerry rafferty formerly formerly of Steeler's Wheel, then he went solo after that band broke up and did this song in 78.

He says he wrote this song. He has sole songwriting credit on it. But the saxophonist of this, Raphael Ravenscroft, quite a name. Is he like a D&D campaign character? That is like the most session musician name i have ever heard but but he says that he wrote that song sax riff that it was his songwriting and that he is unjustly uncredited for it and also like didn't get publishing money for it either for that fact

now jerry's stance is no i wrote that riff beforehand and then gave it to him. Jerry doesn't play the saxophone, I believe, so he just gave it to a session guy. But apparently, he released a demo track version of Baker Street, which has that riff played by a guitar. So it would seem that Raphael Ravenscroft might not have written it. But I think the only part of that song anyone remembers is his uh his sax riff yeah if you told me there were no lyrics in that song and it was just that riff you know like done for four minutes i would totally believe yeah yeah me too who needs lyrics when you've got that riff yeah you no one needs that otherwise otherwise. and yeah so after the clip show then we get a uh you gotta end on a joke you can't end on

just sweetness so we get that we get what counts as a final joke of the episode You're a good father. I learned from the master. Where's Maggie? Where's Maggie? I'm not kidding. I can't see. My retinas have detached again. He's blind as a bat. That's true.

Nice apoo appearance. So we mentioned the two most popular sax riffs of the 80s. We forgot one. The George Michael one. Even more important than that. Oh, which one? The Night Court theme. It's in my head right now. Wow. Yeah, you're 100% right.

And you got the woodblock in there, too. That is a classic. You are correct. Man, now I want to watch Night Court. Talking Night Court, we can do it. $30,000. $30,000. I feel like we'd be even meaner about a season 9 episode of Night Court, I think. Is Bull really an alien? Oh, come now.

Yeah, once you get about Three bailiffs deep On that show There's a point Where it definitely trails off I don't know Whatever That was a show That I watched obsessively

In reruns Like middle The afternoon When I was growing up Oh, me too So many sex jokes I did not understand As a child

R.I.P. Harry Anderson Aw Wait, did Harry Anderson die? Oh, yeah A year or two ago Pretty young Maybe like 60, I think Oh, my God That bums me the hell out I'm sorry I'm sorry, Alex He's doing magic did Harry Anderson die? A year or two ago. Pretty young. Maybe like 60, I think.

Oh my God. That bums me the hell out. I'm sorry. I'm sorry, Alex. He's doing magic with the angels. Why did you have to break the news to me that Harry Anderson died? Oh no. I'm sorry it had to be me.

Oh, that sucks. I like this final Apu appearance here. They have just accepted Apu lives here now and is eating their sandwiches. They don't object to it at all. He just walks in. I think they gave him a sandwich because they were like, what is Apu lives here now and is eating their sandwiches. They don't object to it at all. He just walks in. I think they gave him a sandwich because they were like, what is Apu doing in the house? So they just gave him a prop to have.

Yeah, you end on another grandpa joke just to get you across the finish line, really. If you're going to do one, just saying detached retinas is funny. That's why. Yes, that's a funny joke. Just like flesh-eating virus. Yeah. So it's great that like both apu and grandpa are just sort of like dropped into the house just for jokes arbitrarily i like

it a lot and we go out on a nice sax solo version of the theme song which is great instrumentation i'm gonna give that credit to alf clausen and his team which this is the kind of stuff you can't get after you fire alf clausen from the show for budgetary concerns. And the best Gracie Films riff ever. It's so good. It's so, so good. Which they'll be taking us out on this podcast. Excellent.

Please leave the Gracie thing in. So, yeah, any final thoughts from this? Like we said earlier, I feel that it's got some problems, but I don't want to blame anyone specifically. I wouldn't blame Al Jean. It just does not have the machine. It does not have all of the talent you usually get writing The Simpsons. And it's sort of dated in that it was meant to air earlier. So it's got a few issues. Ultimately, I don't buy the emotional

story, but it's not terrible. And there's jokes in this I do like, so I'll give it a B minus. Henry. We're not assigning letter grades. Yeah, we've never given a grade before on the show. I'm instituting a new segment i mean i'll give it a i would give it a c plus just because i think there i felt sherry bobbins was kind of a weak episode but it had some very good songs in it that really support it even though there's some like easy jokes in it i think this is just a lot of filler and easy jokes and that there's about two

minutes of really good sentimentality that this filler is wrapped around that, that I really like, but there aren't even enough really great jokes in this amid all that filler. There's some, there's a few good jokes. This is not a complete loss, but yeah, I I'd say I'd give it C plus. How about you, Alex? By the way, we're not grading episodes anymore. That's just a joke. We don't have to grade them. I would probably put it in the solid B to B- range. I think that of the flashback episodes, the actual flashback parts of this episode,

I think are generally pretty good. Like you said, the premise is very flimsy, but the emotional core of what they are trying to flashback to, I think mostly works for me, like I said, because I have a certain personal connection to some aspects of this. And, you know, there's enough in there to where I was watching it. It was like I was still kind of laughing along. It is definitely not like a super standout highlight episode for me. Cool. So thanks for joining us, Alex.

Before we go, we'll do our plugs once we're off the air with you. But before we go, can you tell us where we can find you on Twitter and what you're doing right now? I am Alex underscore Navarro, N-A-v-a-r-r-o on twitter and what i am doing right now is just getting ready for another year of video games uh yeah we'll have a bunch of stuff up on giant bomb coming this year but uh we're still figuring out what some of that's gonna be excellent looking forward to it yeah you're the game of the Year stuff, as always, was some of my favorite game content I watch all year. Me and Bob used to be in the game press. Not anymore.

I don't pay as much attention to it as I used to, but I still always make time for the dozens of hours of Giant Bomb End of the Year content. This year's was really great as usual. Well, thank you very much. I'm glad. And it's heartening to hear that, you know, amid the many, many podcasts you guys do, you were still able to somehow find 25 hours to listen to me and my co-workers yell about video games. Well, I mean, it was perfect timing over the Christmas break.

Oh, yeah, for sure. Cool. Right on, man. So thanks again to Alex Navarro. Again, check out all of the stuff at Giant Bomb. We're big fans of that website and that whole group of people but as for us if you want to support us and get a lot of cool stuff on top of that we are the talking simpsons network and if you go to patreon.com slash talking simpsons and sign up at the five dollar level you'll get every

episode of this podcast and what a cartoon a week ahead of time and ad free and along with that you'll get a ton of bonus episodes exclusive miniseries and our upcoming king king of the hill mini series talking of the hill which will go over the entire first season of king of the hill and we unlocked a second mini series for 2019 we hit our 11 000 goal so at some point in 2019 there will be a second mini series so if you set up today you'll get so much content from the past and the future it's amazing what else do we have henry oh man well new supporters and old can enjoy our many interviews with simpsons veterans like dan grainy who i previously mentioned this episode david silverman mark kirkland mike reese bill oakley josh weinstein mike scully and so many others and

there's some cool ones bubbling up uh in the background for the uh uh, the, uh, in 2019. So keep an eye out for that. And if you sign up at patrion.com slash talking Simpsons, why not go the premium route and go to $10 a month? If you did, you would get access to all of our previous videos that we did of exclusive content, including me and Bob going through every Simpson short. If you wanted to see what we thought of the original Simpson shorts, you can

see that there but most importantly we just started our what a cartoon movie podcast oh yeah and bob each month for ten dollar and up patrons go through a different animated film that is chosen by our listeners first we did batman mask of the phantasm then we did kiki's delivery service january we'll see akira the night 1988 slash 2019 anime classic you can only hear it if you go up to the ten dollar level so please consider doing that at patreon.com slash talking simpsons and if you're a five dollar and up patreon you can also vote for which movie we do every month for that podcast and you can also vote for our next 2019 miniseries if you're a patron when we have that poll. And again, that is

patreon.com slash TalkingSimpsons. As for me, I've been one of your hosts, Bob Mackey. Find me on Twitter as Bob Servo. My other podcast is Retronauts. It's a classic gaming podcast every Monday

and occasionally on Friday. It's at retronauts.com or look for Retronauts in your podcast machine. Check it out. I'm sure you'll love it. How about you, Henry? I am Henry Gilbert

and you can follow me on Twitter at H-E-N-E-R-E-Y-G. I tweet out my thoughts on new episodes of this podcast and our sister podcast, What a Cartoon, as well as my thoughts on The Simpsons,

events in the world of politics and comedy and video games, all of that and so much more at H-E-N-E-R-E-Y-G. Thanks for joining us, folks. We'll see you next week for Treehouse of Horror 8. Pizza! Lisa! Enough saxophone bring you years of dope!