Talking Simpsons - Talking Simpsons - Lisa's Substitute With Emily VanDerWerff

Episode Date: December 29, 2021

As we cover perhaps Lisa's most celebrated episode, we're joined by the great author/host of the Arden podcast, Emily VanDerWerff! The Simpsons get a new substitute teacher voiced by a pseudonymous Dustin Hoffman, and it exposes the deep pains in Lisa's relationship with Homer. All that plus Bart demands more asbestos in school in this very heartfelt classic episode of TV! Support this podcast and get dozens of bonus episodes by visiting Patreon.com/TalkingSimpsons and becoming a patron! And please follow the official Twitter, @TalkSimpsonsPod!

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Ahoy, ahoy everybody and welcome to Talkingpsons, where we demand more asbestos. I'm your host, the traditional yet environmentally sound Bob Mackie, and this is our chronological exploration of The Simpsons, who is here with me today in the same room. Hey, it's Henry Gilbert, and I'm aware of Ray Bradbury's work. And who is our special guest on the line? Hi, I'm Emily Vanderwerf, and I am Emily Vanderwerf. Excellent, and today's episode is Lisa's Substitute. Are you the substitute?

Yes, sir. Yes, I am. Are you insane? No, sir. No, I'm not. It's my way of getting their attention. Well, all right. Today's episode aired on April 25th, 1991.

And as always, Henry will tell us what happened on this mythical day in real world history. Oh, my God. Oh, boy, Bobby. Simpson's favorite dinosaurs debuts. Oh, good. As does Nirvana's Smells Like Teen Spirit. It's played for the first time live ahead of the upcoming release of the album Nevermind. And Steven Seagal infamously hosts

saturday night live wow so dinosaurs big fan from the beginning me too yeah a year for the simpsons we all thought it was going to be as big of a show uh only what three seasons i guess yeah i think i'd say for about nine months it felt as big as Family Guy. It never had the ratings. It just never did. Like, it debuted and people were like, oh, this didn't do that great. And I think what people forgot was that while The Simpsons was a hit, it was never a mega hit. You know, it was always like tooling along in the bottom half of the top 20. And, you know, it wasn't like Cosby Show, Roseanne, Seinfeld, just hanging out at the top 20 and you know it wasn't like cosby show roseanne seinfeld just hanging

out at the top so yeah uh everything that copied simpsons failed until the fox animation domination thing you know the dinosaurs got as close as any of the pretenders did i do remember the baby toys of a baby dinosaur they they were hard to escape in our youths. But yeah, I mean, it never... And it had its own album, too. Yes. Hit single, I'm the Baby. It was marketed so heavily to kids. And I think we were all kids when this came.

So it felt big in a way that it never quite was, which is an interesting phenomenon. People who were between the ages of 5 and 15 in 1991. It's all in Disney+, I'm pretty sure, right? Yeah, yeah. And it's dark and satirical, and I remember watching it a lot with my parents and them laughing a lot at the marijuana episode. Jokes I didn't understand, and now I realize some dark truths about my parents.

They're junkies. Isn't the cast, like, really great? Like, it has, like, 5 million great people in it. Yeah, Jessica Walter is the mom. Yeah, yeah. There's so many great actors, and they did a whole two-parter great like it has like five million great people in it yeah jessica walter is the mom yeah yeah there's there's so many great actors and they did they did a whole two-parter about how desert storm was like just a media event and bullshit like in in in the 90s the last episode is about climate change and how it's gonna kill us all yes it does kill off the entire cast in the last episode it's

a classic and uh so we also have uh steven seagal infamous episode of snl i think widely unavailable correct i've never seen it you know i guess it would only be available to people who i don't think it was if it was in those comedy central packages i never saw it in in my saturday night live watching uh days emily did you ever uh spot that one in in your time uh I am not a Saturday Night Live person. So like I've seen, I tend to watch skits if people, skits. I tend to watch sketches if people say they're good. And other than that, I just don't really watch the show. But I'm looking it up and it seems like it would be great.

There's some clips on YouTube. So I feel like we should all watch those, including like clips from the official nbc account so i feel like they must be like leaning into it now i don't know it was one of those stories like in the live from new york book the oral history massive book uh that i remember reading like a million times it was like oh lauren never wanted him back he was awful everyone hated him like bob odenkirk tells uh some very rather dark stories of sketches that steven seagal pitched that uh they were like no we're not doing that yeah steven seagal he was one of the he's in the

one-timer and never again club with like adrian brody and he was always like that in case you're wondering yeah even even though he's you know uh degraded quite a lotdy and he was always like that in case you're wondering yeah even even though he's you know uh degraded quite a lot since then he's always been an asshole but and uh and yeah we're ahead of smells like teen spirit is you know debuted at a at a live event in uh at some concert not a live event at a concert in in seattle but this is ahead of the, you know, this would be the Christmas where every kid would want Nevermind, not Michael Jackson's Black and White, a big moment. Dangerous, was that the album in 1991, Michael Jackson? I thought that was, is that what Black and White is on?

I thought that was Black and White. It's Black or White, number one. Black or White, sorry. It's not an Oreo cookie. And I think it's on Dangerous. Okay. Yes. But, oh, yeah, and the last thing with dinosaurs,

it is so much more ripoff of All in the Family than Simpsons, but the Simpsons were really insulted by it, and, like, by the next year in Black Widower in Season 3, they straight up, like, take a direct shot at it and call it, like, a ripoff. They say, like, it's like they saw our lives and put it on TV. Like so that's how pissed the Simpsons was at the dinosaurs. I'm reading the worst SNL hosts of all time on Rolling Stone.

And yeah, it's there's some interesting people. George Steinbrenner hosted. That's a really great. I need to get into snl uh if you if you'd love to see steve forbes uh in sketches uh then they're right out there i watched the steve forbes episode i was like a i was like a steve forbes fan and so i want that's like one of the few episodes of snl i watched when I was a kid. I remember sketches from that episode, like Mark McKinney playing Teev Torbs. Right, yeah.

And I remember Steve Forbes saying, and now Rage Against the Machine. I remember that. But yes, that's what happened this week in 1991. So joining us today is Emily Vanderwerf of Vox. Welcome to the show, Emily. Hi, it's so nice to be here. Yeah, me and Bob have been big fans of your work for a very long time,

so it's a real honor having you on here. And I've read so many things you've written about media, including The Simpsons. So it's great to finally have you on here to talk about Simpsons with us. I'm really happy to be here. This is, it's probably my favorite show of all time you know i think i if i were to sit down and like make a list it would definitely be on

there somewhere it's the show i turn to most often um when i'm just looking for uh a pleasant hang and what's your history with the show emily uh we have uh we usually have our guests fall into one or two categories uh either you were allowed to watch it or you were forbidden to watch it. And some people watched it with their parents. I think Henry and I are in that third category. Yes. The true freaks. I was, okay, so I'm in a weird category all my own.

I was, in theory, not allowed to watch it. It was a subject of controversy and discussion in my home i watched the first episode simpsons roasting on an open fire but i watched it on a videotape that a friend of mine had gotten from his older brother who was off at college because the television network fox was not available in my hometown at the time The Simpsons debuted. So until about season three or four, we could not watch it without someone taping it for us and bringing it back. And you know, by that point, the show had like entered that familiar thing that we have where like a show blows up really big, and then people get kind of sick

of it. And there's a backlash. And so we went through that cycle. And i started watching it in earnest when it hit syndicated reruns and i was like this is the greatest show ever but i probably started watching it when i was a teenager not when i was a kid so yeah i'm in this weird space where like yeah if it had been available to me i would not have been allowed to watch it but i was really not allowed to watch it because i physically could not that's. That's a good reason. You know, you missed out on early Fox hits like Babes and Drexel's Class. In the beginning of Cops. I would guess then in your region, was Bartmania as much of a craze without Fox on TV?

Oh, yeah. I mean, all the Simpsons stuff was still a big deal. You know, people bought the merch. Like, it was a thing where I think Bart Simpson was just an interesting enough character to, you know people bought the merch like like it was a thing where i think bart simpson was just an interesting enough character to you know kids my age that there was something compelling about him all the same and also like we were aware of the show you know it was impossible to escape the media coverage and it was uh impossible to escape the merchandising and so yeah it's like friends would see the stray episode

here or there when they were traveling or like had a tape from someone who was off at college but yeah it was it was very weird we were kind of in a bubble well and i wonder too how much it like shaped your worldview not just you know like sometimes we ask like if did it shape your worldview politically but also you know just in media did did watching the simpsons lead you to watch a bunch of like you know films or other tv shows just to get references it's actually kind of i kind of had it the other way because um i because we didn't always have access to a lot of new stuff i was watching a lot of old stuff so i came to the simpsons a big show for me was mystery science theater 3000 oh sure and that was one that for some reason i had access to comedy central so i

would watch that pretty often and um that was one where like i started to get then the habit of like watching stuff to be able to catch references to things so by the time i caught up with the simpsons it was really rare for the show to throw out a reference i didn't have a frame of reference for but again i started watching it a few years into its run in syndication so i was probably 16 or 17 and uh you know when i offered up some some episodes that we could do you definitely were gravitating to the lisa ones is lisa what are you like your favorite we've heard it from several folks on the show that lisa's their favorite character but i think that i did a ranking of which simpsons which of the five simpsons who's best at carrying a story

and i think i had lisa at the top it was her homer they're kind of the two most multi-dimensional characters bart i feel like is a very good character that they kind of, I don't want to say lost track of, but he became too big that they stopped being able to maneuver him in the way they could with Homer and Lisa. And the best character pairing is, I think, Homer and Lisa. I think Homer is probably a better character just in terms of doing stories that you have to do on television because he's kind of oblivious and that's a good that's a good trait to have in a central character in a sitcom story but like

lisa is so there's something so pure and heartfelt and just sort of heartbreaking about her and when the show debuted i was exactly the same age as her and i uh desperately wanted to play the saxophone and so like i mean i think all all girls my age were like oh yes of course lisa simpson that's me you know my my uh my my boss and great friend at box um jen trolio i saw a photo of her once when she was in like the fourth grade and she's got, you know, the huge nineties glasses and she's wearing a Lisa Simpson t-shirt. And it's just like every girl that age was like, yep, Lisa Simpson.

That's me. She already had in season one, moaning Lisa that, you know, added, added the darkness to her character, I think, but this,

well, not, I don't want to say dark, more like world weariness to her. And definitely, uh, wise beyond her years kind of thing. But I think this even more so like deepens her character quite a lot.

And they find a lot of new stuff with her. I think a lot of the qualities of Homer and Lisa stories come through too, because like Al Jean and James L. Brooks, especially, I think are really drawn to those types of stories. Yeah. The thing that I think uh kind of holds lisa back just a little bit is in the latter days of the show and i include like like season 10 here she kind of became a hectoring there's an element to her that is like she's the voice of

reason and then they kind of use her to become the like the hollywood liberal you know consensus and there is a there is an element to her that is a little bit hard to take in some of those latter day episodes but through about season seven you know i think the show she's the most consistent best used character i do love her she's probably my favorite of the main five but i think homer is probably a more versatile character at this point you know it's funny you mentioned that emily actually there's no reason to play it otherwise in this podcast but we have a jingle yes when those moments happen in later uh era simpsons i'll play it now take that lisa's beliefs that sums it up really yep and uh this episode in

particular i think it was the standout emotional episode of the show until maybe Lisa's wedding. I think Lisa's wedding really supplanted that and maybe Mother Simpson a year later. But this was the go-to, like, tug at the heartstrings successfully episode of the show. This is remembered as, you know, like a Stone Cold classic, like probably people's most remembered episode from season two i would guess for sure i think so and i think too we've really identified this in this run of episodes and and john vd the writer of the episode says as much on the commentary too but we were getting the feel and revisiting season two that james l brooks really came in strong of like i want emotion like we're gonna have emotion there's of the end of the way

we was is a very heartfelt ending that bart actually gags on because and there's this like push and pull in the writer's room you're hearing about of the writers like the other writers want to do crazy zany fun joke stuff and then here's brooks asking them to have these mary tyler moore kind of crying moments in them yeah i have a quote from VD from the commentary. He said, we were just starting to realize the comedic potential of the show. And then we were stuck in this run of eight stories, five of which were love stories. So he just wanted to write a funny script, but he was selected to write this script. And apparently he had a really bad table read previously.

He was in no position to say what he could or couldn't write for the show. And he said, everyone backed out of it but me. Like he was the guy that was singled out to write this and apparently he didn't like it well also like i he mentioned this on twitter of like six years ago when he last used his twitter account he had said like nobody wanted to write this episode it was a terrifying assignment it was a pure story story and we knew it was important to jim because brooks apparently basically handed an outline with a lot of lines in it so here you are like a very important one to james o brooks you

have to execute it and al g mentioned on the commentary that because they had saw this as an opportunity for a big guest star if you wrote a script that that big guest star wasn't into it's your fault for losing the big guest star with your script so it's just like a pretty thankless job of taking on this script and plus it sounded like vd he's very upfront of saying like oh well if you love that line that was james l brooks if you got emotional for this line that was james l brooks i yeah i didn't write that stuff yeah i i don't know i hear some of these guys who worked on the show um back the day, in the early days, and felt sort of that felt sort of hemmed in by that emotional element. But I think this show totally falls apart and doesn't become a culture defining behemoth without that push and pull.

You know, so much of is made out of the conflict between Matt Groening and Sam Simon in the early years. And that was also, you know, should we just be a, it was a version of this. Should we just be a gag of the week show? Or should we have rich character relationships that change and grow over time? Which is a form of emotionality, even if those relationships are fundamentally silly ones, like the one between mo and homer i mean as someone who writes my own comedy show i just i feel like comedy is is is rooted in to some degree pain and the longer you go without acknowledging that the more callous you seem and i mean all you have to do is look at family guy to see what that looks like yeah yeah you mentioned the later seasons and by later i mean 20 years ago but uh in like seasons 10 and stuff onward even when we really like a

good joke when it loses the foundation of like characters who give a shit about each other just homer becomes like just mean for no reason the even a good joke doesn't feel as good because you've lost something in the character. I used to read that. I'm sure you've talked about this on the show. I used to read that website, snpp.com, SpringfieldNuclearPowerPlant.com, and they just would have collections

of news group reviews of episodes. It was always astonishing to me because my favorite episodes were the really funny ones. You know, I kind of started, I don't remember what exactly happened but kind of started watching like i think a run of episodes from five and six when they really kind of just were in their element of having just a sprinkle of emotion to hold together a story just full of funny jokes and my favorite episode for a long time was on deep space homer

and i went and i read the capsule reviews from that. And everyone was complaining about what a big jerk Homer was, how he was unbelievably dumb, and what happened to the emotional core of the show. And I was like, what is happening right now? But like, if you think about the common way that we talk about a television show, it's like season one, you're like, oh, this is really interesting and new, and I'm into it. And then season two, you're like, wow, this show, this show is just really great and then season three is like this show can do anything and then it's kind of a falling off after that and the simpsons went through that it just became such a like cultural landmark that we don't

really realize that anymore all those episodes that those people were complaining about are now considered stone cold classics and whatever's airing on fox right now and like i'm not going to sit here and be the person who says well the simpsons has never been bad because there are many many many many bad episodes or even seasons of the show but i do think because of that baseline there is a thing that they're always able to get back to um the episodes people praise from the you know seasons 30 whatever, and they do come up every so often, tend to be episodes that are like, oh, this is rooted in this specific relationship, the Lisa and Bart relationship or something like that. And the reason they can do that is because they did episodes like Lisa's Substitute in 1991. successful at being emotional in this season uh there were a few uh swings and misses i think especially episodes like old money which is the episode where grandpa meets uh meets uh you know

a partner and she dies and it's it's very very schmaltzy at the end with no like no no twist on it no subversion of it no no creative version of this end of the story but here i think it is earned for sure oh yeah and yeah you know which which sentimental episode i love of this end of the story. But here I think it is earned for sure. Oh, yeah. Yeah. You know which sentimental episode I love of this show that I think is probably objectively too schmaltzy, but I think pulls it off, is the one where

Bart steals Bonestorm at Christmas. I don't remember the name of it. Marge Be Not Proud, maybe? Yeah, that's it. And I just love that episode. And it is, again, super sweet, super sentimental, a little bit saccharine. But I think because it's a Christmas episode, it gets away with it.

That's just, you know, a thing that this show could do that I think other shows, similar shows, shows in its weight class just couldn't. Now, if listeners want to hear me and Bob cry, they should go back to the one we did for March Be Not Proud because that one really did get us even talking about it. The Simpsons will be right back. Lisa's new teacher is a class act. Yesterday, he read a Charlotte's Web, Cry at the End. And she's got a classic crush. Lisa, can i see you for a minute but when she needs lessons in love will homer pass the test or fail as a father i didn't think you'd understand hey just because i don't care doesn't mean i don't understand the simpsons tonight. Tonight at 7, followed by Coach at 7.30 on Fox.

How we use electricity can be smarter, cleaner, and greener. At Electric Ireland, we can help guide you there. You see, our new Net Zero Hub has all you need to know about smart meter plans, EV tariffs, solar panels, and much more. Making your usage clearer, your trips greener, your home cozier, and your world brighter. Find our Net Zero Hub at electricireland.ie. Welcome to the break, everybody, of this asbestos laden podcast and a big thank you to our guest this week emily vanderwerf we're so proud to have her on this week's episode we're big fans of her

work read her stuff on vox and check out her cool podcast arden podcast as well and if you enjoy this week's podcast you should know that we're only able to do this as our full-time job thanks to the support of patrons at patreon.com slash talking simpsons five dollar a month patrons not only help me and bob do this as our full-time jobs but they also get a ton of bonuses this month we're just wrapping up our patreon exclusive podcast blabbing about batman the animated series you can hear us talking about the holiday nights episode very correct for this time of year and next week you'll hear us talking about mad love the series finale we also have a giant back catalog of exclusives for patreon subscribers us covering shows like futurama king of the hill mission hill and the critic and starting in

january we are going to be doing a monthly king of the hill episode alongside our monthly futurama episode you'll hear all that only if you're a five dollar subscriber at patreon.com slash talking simpsons but if you want something as nice as a schwa then you should sign up at the ten dollar premium level at patreon.com slash talking simpsons that's where people not only get the awesome five dollar stuff we do every month but you also get our premium podcast what a cartoon movie each month we cover an animated series on what a cartoon but we do the same only for $10 and up subscribers with an animated feature film. This month we're doing Millennium Actress, the Satoshi Kon masterpiece. Next month you'll hear us do the Disney direct-to-video sequel, The Lion King 2 Simba's Pride.

And tons and tons more are in the back catalog available to you. I'd say over 250 hours of what a cartoon movie is at your disposal on top of all of the other exclusives I just mentioned there. So please go to patreon.com slash Talking Simpsons today and check out all of the stuff that's offered to you there. I will say like VD was frustrated with having to write this because they're discovering the comedic potential of the show I feel like you can see the potential in just how fast this episode moves because even though they're in one location in the first act it's just back and forth very very fast scenes they're not just sitting on one location or sorry sitting in one room at a time it's like just back and forth so fast very snappy and i think that's them exploring the potential of the show for sure i am astonished every time i watch this and i've seen this episode probably 20-25 times in my life that the bart election plotline is in this episode. I love that

plotline. I never think of it being in this episode. And like, there are so many good jokes in this episode. I remember this, you know, I remember the heart tugging moments when I think about this episode, I think because, and I'm sure we'll talk about this. Some of them are just like unparalleled in TV history in some ways. But there's just a ton of great jokes. You know, there's a really obvious graduate reference that is nonetheless funny. And there's, you know, one for Martin, two for Martin, which is one of those jokes that I quote all the time. It is an extremely funny episode with an extremely sweet core. For me, this is as good as the show got in terms of

just expressing outright emotion i've i like lisa's wedding i think it's a little overrated well and uh and rich moore is one of the best directors the show ever had to like and this is artistically it meets the the quality of the script too i uh and yeah listeners you know may have heard we did an interview with john vd last year uh where this episode came up but also the sort of we never considered it until he said it but the bigger brother episode from season four the one with peppy that he wrote is a sequel episode he considered it like he was told do elisa's substitute but for bart and uh he reflected on it as like oh i intentionally wrote it incredibly punchy and silly because i was pissed they asked me to write a second

very emotional and hard to write episode yeah and then when the next showrunner came in jim brooks sat down with him and said we don't want anything that is like this episode make make nothing like this episode because we hate it but to us it's a classic you know it's just a funny silly episode but it does but it is about a replacement father figure yeah jesper bart instead of lisa but it was really great here you know vd reflects just uh he's he was a very for being one of the most brilliant simpsons writers around of the original group john vd was very humble in our interview about these things and always pretty good of like, oh, well, I didn't write that. Oh, do you love Mr. Plow? Like the guy who wrote Mr. Plow is just still leaving like, I'm not that great. I just wrote

Mr. Plow. Yeah. Yeah. And I do think there is a thing that happens in a writer's room on any project where it becomes like a group mind and that group mind is smarter than anybody in the room so there is a humbling effect to that i actually think we've kind of gotten away from this in the age of the showrunner auteur where suddenly it's like oh the showrunner did all of that and i just love these old classic comedy writers rooms you hear about it here you hear about an snl mary tyler moore cheers things that, where people are like, yeah, you know, I wrote some funny jokes, but it was kind of this this high of mind that stepped in and did all these things. And I think that this show is not what it is without that aspect of, oh, they just got a bunch of really clever people in a room and just said, do whatever you want. And yeah, this episode has a big guest star in Dustin Hoffman, who they wanted to get.

They were getting a lot of big stars at this time dustin hoffman so the story had always been like oh they're ashamed of being on the show like oh penny marshall doesn't want her name in the episode because it's a cartoon and it might fail or whatever but it sounded like it's also that they didn't want fox to advertise dustin hoffman on this show like they had to cash in on his fame. Yeah, it was more about, I guess, brand protection in his case. To the point where Simpsons expert, that guy, 3002 on Twitter, he bought the syndication guidebook. If you were a station that bought the syndication package, it had all these rules. And one of the rules was, even reruns you cannot advertise using dustin

hoffman's name of like dustin hoffman guest stars in this episode of simpsons tonight or whatever like it extended it to syndication that rule yeah i i wonder like i mean it's obviously dustin hoffman but i also wonder how that eventually became known because he's credited under a pseudonym sam eddick and like they probably could have just been like well and we know it sounds like dustin but it's not him and yet like i feel like people just immediately do same with michael jackson in season three yeah it i mean dustin hoffman obviously big movie star i don't know what he's doing now but in 1991 he was huge because 88 was his year because rain man i don't think he made a

movie bigger than rain man even though the graduate is referenced more uh rain man was the biggest mass market hit he made at this point in time he was still like running on the gas that was in the engine from rain man you are incorrect because rain man was not as big as kramer versus kramer really okay those two movies were enormous okay yeah no like they're I mean they were both huge they were both the number one movies of the year they were released in they both won best picture it is wild to think about Kramer versus Kramer and Rain Man that is nuts I think it's because uh I forgot about Kramer versus Kramer because I kept seeing characters based on uh hoffman's rain man character in

popular culture and and no kramer versus kramer references in popular culture i mean you know kramer versus kramer is just one of those things where it's like we were like what if there was a movie about a divorce and then the dad had to raise the kid and in 1979 people were like whoa and and now you know it's like a man raising a baby yeah sure fine great i feel like we're now on our third year of divorce movies being the oscar baits of of the year just like the actor showcase like isn't there some new divorce movie coming soon probably um i i but i also feel like you know that movie becoming a cultural landmark and winning best picture is a thing that could only happen in like the late 70s early 80s now it's like yeah they're getting divorced but it's not like it's not like a seismic

event in their lives like marriage story obviously very good film very insightful about divorce but i also don't think that you watch that movie and you're like boy divorce what a problem in our society and uh apparently james l brooks came up with sam etic as a pseudonym obviously semitic jewish that's the joke but i guess that was the clue that and the graduate references were your clues as a viewer to put together and then of course by season four lisa just says the line yeah dustin hoffman michael jackson of course they didn't use their real names but you could tell it was them i've seen on twitter from the other simpsons account daily simpsons on twitter uh they found like the original tv guide ad for this episode which was bart runs for class president like no now one mentioned elisa

this was not the elisa episode as far as they could tell from the ad campaign i mean that's a that's a if you're gonna promote this show this episode without using dustin hoffman that's kind of what you promote like that's especially in the era of bart simpson everything i mean what are you gonna say at least it gets a substitute teacher yeah if you can't say and it's dustin hoffman i yeah before we play our first clip one last bit of trivia that this is apparently i didn't fully confirm this but I do believe it to be true. Apparently, the last episode to date that Hank Azaria does no voices in. Oh, wow. You're right.

Azaria-free episode. You know, he was out of other episodes, like the Thanksgiving episode. He's not in either. I think we talked about and identified before that he was trying to get cast in live action stuff more and I think was like, I'm not as available for voice acting stuff and then his i think he finally just fully committed to simpsons as much as he wanted to be you know cast in friends or whatever he uh he he accepted his life as a simpsons voice actor uh and another first for this episode that it begins first time the opening was cut down in any way that's right

it goes straight through the letters on spring uh simpsons to homer parking his car they had never done that before they played the full intro every time before it wow uh loss though you know later the the opening would only get longer and longer as as al gene and mike reese would say they always always were short and needed that long big circus opening more times than they thought they would saw a lot of those guys dancing around the screen and yes uh good scene setting opening shot here lisa is uh focused on her reading while the rest of the class is running wild without the teacher present and yes the opening begins here as while she did have a line in brush with greatness this is the first real appearance of

lisa's teacher mrs hoover did you hear about miss hoover she drank a bottle of drain cleaner by mistake uh i heard she fell down the well oh my god she's been dumped again children i won't be staying long i just came from the doctor, and I have Lyme disease. Principal Skinner will run the class until a substitute arrives. What's Lyme disease? I'll field that one. Lyme disease is spread by small parasites called ticks. When a diseased tick attaches itself to you and begins sucking your blood,

malignant spirochetes infest your bloodstream, eventually spreading to your spinal fluid and on into the brain. The brain, oh dear God. Come on, Elizabeth. Come on, come on. So yeah, that's Miss Hoofer. And I don't know what their perspective was, but she's very similar to Kerboppel in that she is just dead inside from her job. It's not as clear in this episode because we don't see a lot of that part of her character. But Kerboppel still has a spark in her miss hoover has no spark yeah i i feel like miss hoover is kind

of a missed opportunity she's just not really a character like she gets some good jokes here and there but um it feels like she is just um doubling down on a theme i like hearing harry shearer's old principal skinner voice like that where there's a little bit of the you know a little bit of the the gruff i can't do the voice at all i'm not even trying but there's a little bit of like the jowls in it yeah yeah the the more of the age in him it's like a walter cronkite style voice almost yeah yeah uh and and also like i'll say it a lot in this episode but this that felt like a scene recorded live with two actors who are acting off each other's like delivery just like her god the brain like maggie roswell is

so funny they're like the brain oh my god that's so great uh and yeah i think the best when i think of the best hoover jokes mostly it's just about her being like an alcoholic or yeah tired of lisa calling her a pc thug yes yeah you're why uh well i generation can't get a man is that something like that because a pc thugs like you uh though uh here's a continuity issue though she says the doctor diagnosed her but later it'll be revealed it was psychosomatic i do think psychosomatic can make symptoms appear and some doctors may misdiagnose things but her acting like a doctor fully diagnosed her with lyme disease makes it sound like it's more than psychosomatic the doctors in springfield

maybe she went to dr nick exactly yeah who told her what she wanted to hear i guess you know she probably doesn't have good enough health insurance to afford Dr. Hibbert. Yeah, that makes sense. You don't think Springfield Elementary has good health insurance? What? I mean, Groundskeeper Willie lives in a shack out back. Yeah. And I mean, we've also seen Ralph before, but this is kind of Ralph becoming Ralph as we know him.

Oh, yeah. And then also, here's another first in the show this is a lot of them discovering first jokes they pan like skinner hears screaming above them they pan up and as they pan through the ceiling like you see what's filling in the ceiling no jokes though no joke there but i it feels to me like when the writers saw that shot they thought we could say funny things that are in there like a tape recorder or a bunch of gold or whatever. Yeah. Yeah.

There's another time when they do that, when Bart grabs the poster of Martin's and rubs it on his butt, then rips it up and throws it up in the air. And the camera pans up and sees Lisa and Mr. Bergstrom in the window. And like that is more of a filmmaking thing than a joke thing but I feel like the Simpsons got a lot bolder about that kind of visual language particularly in the second half of season two when they kind of had settled in and realized oh they were going to run for a long time and they were going to kind of get whatever they wanted budgetarily to do that and they could they've I think they got more trust for their artists to execute that kind of stuff.

They knew that they could write a lengthy Hitchcock film parody and trust that their artists could pull it off. And yes, you know, as we go to the BART classroom, I blame Edna for trusting. I never had one teacher that would have trusted any student with a remote for the room. It's like no you you the the kid cannot control the v the vcr not age 10 no no let alone bring in a tape i had teachers that were like if you're gonna bring in a tape i have to watch it first like i don't i don't just put it in and start playing it yeah apparently in one of my classes there was a there was a story told that who knows how true

it was but it was like oh yeah two years before the teacher didn't check a tape that a kid brought in and at the end of it like a kid like put his butt on screen or something and she uh she got in a lot of trouble for that so but here bart's just showing a wholesome thing of like how nature works a miracle of birth yeah and this is the return of the late russie taylor to martin you know we'd had she did martin in the first episode of the season bart gets an f and then martin popped up like four other times this season and it wasn't her and you could tell and now for this big martin episode they're like we got to get russie back like and she rules i love uh martin is a character i most identify with in this episode is weirdly uh

paired with wendell in a lot of these scenes like wendell's this guy martin usually friendless now has has queasy old wendell backing up the other a lot a lot of the forgotten bart friends have lines in this episode you also have uh the name he's now named chuck oh yeah the kid who turns his eyelids inside out right by joanne harris i'm gonna have to remember that kid's chuck from now on when we talk about him but yes uh so we see the kids screaming edna is is as usual i agree with you martin like classic uh edna there and another great shot i love a big wormy tongue scream all the kids reacting to the cat's reverse birth it's interesting like in these early seasons edna

loves martin but later she'll just be sick of his shit it's like yes yes you're annoying yeah sit down please i will not acknowledge your geode that's it so then burgstrap arrives or a a cowboy does bursts into the room which you know what i gotta agree with skinner in real life you should not be firing a fake gun in a school. With our modern zero tolerance policies, he's fired. I love that this was a time when that was a joke. Yeah. And I'm wondering if they're thinking...

Somebody firing a gun at a school? That's hilarious. I mean, this won't be revealed until season three in separate vocations, but I'm wondering if the writers know like Skinner is a vet. So if he hears gunfire, he's going to hit the floor. That's true. This does predate his multiple Vietnam PTSD jokes that they would do with him later on. And Bergstrom not only is drawn to look like Mike Reese, the co-showrunner of season three and four but also uh he's named after a teacher reese had growing up he had a berg a teacher named bergstrom so that it's such a specific name that makes sense

and the joke reese has is that this teacher had a sort of deformity but he doesn't say what it is and the joke is i guess the deformity was to make him look like me the mr bergstrom in the show also like he is such a dream teacher who shows up i I now as an adult, as a kid, I was like, man, the coolest sub ever. I wish I had somebody who had fun ideas like this and actually like talks to me like I'm a person, all that. Now, as an adult, I watch it and go like, how does he afford all these things? Yeah. A sub salary like all these costumes, all the the Pemmick him. He hands out these teachers.

You know, they got to buy their own like school supplies for kids all this extra stuff like they can't afford that i also feel like mr bergstrom and i don't know if this has been noted i feel like he sounds like dustin hoffman i know it's not dustin hoffman but it sounds like the sam eddick guy does a good impersonation he does i guess they were just allowed to say it on the commentary just like they were allowed to say michael jackson and i guess they flew out yardley and probably like harry shearer and dan to record with him in new york and then later they picked up some lines from him on the set of hook that's so funny to know that like yeah they say like 180r line at the train station was recorded in his his trailer

at hook i totally get that hoffman's like look i'm not flying i'm in i'm doing whatever i'm doing in new york you come to me if you want me on this show you're flying to me and hearing that yardley said like she felt she grew a huge amount as an actor working with him on this and and there's a fun bit on the commentary too where vd says you know they cast yardley to just be the bratty sister of bart and it turns out they cast like an amazing actress by accident and graining actually gets kind of pissed at that he's just like well you know i i did have something to do with that you know i did i did hire her also vd again very critical of himself he's like he doesn't like that he has a character enter as as he's pretending to be somebody else

he says it puts he's like ah puts the character on his back foot like you don't know who this character is you have to introduce them twice in a row i i never thought i think that's just him being too critical i that's not a failing to me in the episode but uh this is when lisa gets to know mr boogerstrom pretty well there are three things wrong with my costume anybody names those three things will get my hat. I believe I know the answer. What's your name? Lisa Simpson. Go ahead, Miss Simpson. One, your belt buckle says State of Texas,

but Texas wasn't a state until 1845. Very good. Two, the revolver wasn't invented until 1835. That's excellent. Three, you seem to be of the Jewish faith. Are you sure I'm Jewish? Or Italian. I'm Jewish. And there weren't any Jewish cowboys. Very good. That's excellent three you seem to be of the jewish faith are you sure i'm jewish or italian i'm jewish and there weren't any jewish cowboys very good that's excellent and i'm also wearing a digital watch but i'll accept that here you go little lady and for the record there were a few

jewish cowboys ladies and gentlemen big guys who were great shots and spent money freely i'm mr bergstrom feel free to make fun of my name if you want two suggestions are mr nerdstrom and mr booger strump that's fun hey what a fun teacher even knows like yeah i give you permission to make fun of me who cares like that's uh but also like he's yeah i think hoffman plays that really well too that he's like getting to know this new student who's like wow you're eight and you know when texas became a state like actually you can tell he's impressed in his delivery there it is this weird like boomlet at this time of stories i'm guessing inspired by dead poet society it felt like every

tv show had a what a wonderful teacher i learned so much and then he died episode like yeah like the the most awarded episode of the wonder years is a season three episode named goodbye which literally has that arc i had a wonderful teacher he challenged me i became a better student and then he died and like this is the simpsons version of that and it is probably the best version of that but it's very weird that every tv show was like you gotta do a dead poet society They're playing it sincerely. But then later they kind of admit within the show, like, we know what we're doing here. Because Mr. Berkman later when he leaves, he's like, actually, I am the best.

There will be nobody like me in your life. And then like Lisa talking to the woman who lives in his apartment, like, oh, he touched you too. Like things like that. Like they realize like this guy is incredibly unrealistic. There's nobody like him that to me does feel like just like how in old money it follows a real sitcom trope of a character that you know appears for one episode and dies or whatever and just you you meet this old character and everybody's like boy we all love this old character and then by act two they're dead and they they kind of they don't clown on

it as much uh in old money but in this one by by the end of it, they do accept like, yeah, yeah, he's the perfect teacher. He's Mary Poppins basically coming in and you're going to miss him when he's gone. But I like that Lisa, I think Yardley, Yardley plays the schoolgirl crush really well. While Hoffman is just playing as like, I am impressed with it. This is actually a very promising like young person who i want to help like it's the little like giggle that yardley gives with uh with lisa like getting a compliment because uh as we see later she never gets compliments or recognized by her intelligence or uh ever so she actually takes a compliment really well but it's she's like oh that's weird

that's what a weird compliment i do feel like and this may be skipping it a little bit but i do feel like the show is pretty savvy about playing lisa's crush off of like bergstrom handling it pretty well there's like a shot where they're holding hands in the museum and i was like you probably wouldn't do that now no like it's not it's not like it's not like treat as romantic or anything like that it's just very much like an adult and a kid holding hands like like you do but you know there is uh they're very good at walking that line and i think a lot of shows would struggle with this little girl is in love with this adult man and this adult man sees something with great potential in her but also is not you know there he also is like you're a little kid and i think that this episode does that in a way that other shows and movies sometimes

struggle with especially when it's older man younger girl because there's that it would be weird sexism yeah i agree it would be weird if bergstrom acknowledged lisa's crush i think there's one moment where she praises his semitic good looks and he goes oh like he's just taken aback but we don't see him saying now lisa i'm an adult you're a child we can't have these discussions or you shouldn't say things like that to me it'll be it'll be like entering into a weird territory i think for this episode well i know you know with the title lisa's substitute like it the double meaning is like substitute father yeah like bergstrom it's clearer every time i watch it like what Bergstrom recognizes is is that Lisa needs is looking for a father figure more than a you know someone she's in

love with like yeah and and like he is her substitute father but I didn't uh and that and that's all Bergstrom addresses like when he finally meets Homer he addresses that too but this I think it's a a good version of a childhood crush like you know lots there's there are other shows that have certainly dealt with like child crush on teacher stories much worse what on earth to like how does it feel to be homer simpson and know that the tv show about you has both of your kids multiple stories about how they're looking for someone other than you to be their father i think you know homer's used to it by uh pretty quickly yeah yeah or honestly he just needs massive brain damage to forget it i think uh so then we get a quick

shot to the fourth grade class where they're setting up the class president thing martin uh again i think i always think that the writers more identify with martin than bart every time they write it and you know especially if you went to harvard it's likely you were class president at some point in your life and so the way martin just hops out of his seat and just like and just has this whole platform and he's acting it out and though also like i could identify with that as a little kid like i would have just like you know i would have been comic book authors not science fiction authors but i would have said like id man and especially his disdain for ray bradbury that shows like he's not just some sci-fi nerd that he also he doesn't love everything.

He sees Alfred Bester as much better than Ray Bradbury. I'm with Martin on that one. You know, there's some good Ray Bradbury ones, but it's definitely one of those ones you grow out of more. He's harder to go back to the older you get, I feel like. I love Bradbury. Didn't Alfred Bester write two novels, though? Like it's hard to like beat how few things he wrote. I was looking into Bester because I had never heard of him outside of being mentioned on the show.

He wrote novels like The Demolished Man, Who He, and The Star Is My Destination. I was looking at the premises. They all seem pretty cool, but I've never really heard of them outside of The Simpsons. The Star Is My Destination is considered one of the like ground ground zero works of sci-fi it's good it's a fantastic book yeah so as as a book written in the 50s certainly there's things that haven't aged well in it but yes yeah i it's great great great yeah and bob i know you love the count of monte cristo it's count of monte cristo in space kind of so i'm getting this on kindle yeah also just martin's like very theatrical like keep

watching the skies like uh it's such a perfect martin is like a kid who doesn't realize he's gay yet that's how they write him a lot of the time and just this very dramatic gay little kid and that's what i love about him like i sometimes that goes into you know meaner jokes about gay little boys but i like that meanwhile we cut to bergstrom and he very slowly sings the song i'm just going to drop in here his his version of home on the range if you're through with your pemmican why don't we sing a song about cowboys now this one's not very accurate but we can fix it up as we go along, okay? Home, home on the range Actually, the range was far from home. It was a very desolate place where danger and disease rode tall on the saddle.

Where the deer and the antelope played But unlike the efficient Indians, cowboys used only the tongue of the antelope, and they threw the rest away. Where seldom is heard a discouraging word, and the skies are not cloudy all day. Hey, what's this? Did you do it? No, no, it wasn't me. I would never do anything like that. It was just one of those immature people who, instead of building themselves up... Oh, it's neat. Can I have it? Yes, but I didn't do it? No. No, it wasn't me. I would never do anything like that. It was just one of those immature people who, instead of building themselves up... Oh, that's neat. Can I have it?

Yes, but I didn't do it. Are you sure you didn't do it? It's good. No, but I'm starting to wish I had. Ladies and gentlemen, the singing dork. Lisa! Lisa! But I also like that it shows that he's not some guy who just loves cowboys or

he's like some conservative john wayne fan he actually knows historically what's not cool about cowboys and what's what uh what the history books don't tell you kind of thing i guess they were worried that his whispering was too quiet when they recorded him so they boosted it as much as they possibly could when he's like whispering between the lines of the song. He did whisper very quietly. Hoffman, he took that whisper direction very seriously. It was very, very funny to watch that scene. We're recording this in the not immediate wake up, but pretty close to this extremely strange right wing brouhaha over critical race theory and like how they're teaching it to elementary school students and like people are like no that's not happening but it does in the episode lisa's yes no they bergstrom would

be banned from teaching right now for this for these telling for just mentioning that you know the cowboys actually very uh wasted the bison and it was uh and he's right about the jewish cowboys you know the movies will tell you every cowboy was white uh a white man but it actually is as a fringe job uh lots of people out you know in minor ethnic and religious minorities were in the job of cowboy back then in the movies usually jewish or italian people play native americans though that's true yeah i like how insulted he was like i'm jewish like he's like i'm not italian like oh you think i'm italian that's how it reads to me i also one of my favorite drawings in the whole series is like the singing dork drawing i love that terrible a great drawing of a kid's drawing and and how i like how like flustered yardley plays lisa which

is you know she's it's like he's like you said emily it's a really it's a tight rope to walk because like yardley does play lisa a little bit like a blushing school school girl but bergstrom you know they can't they have to remember like you're a kid i'm an adult playing this scene we can't actually play this like a meat feud or or something yeah i'm sure also uh yardley in her late 20s at this point is intimidated by dustin hoffman so i'm sure a lot of this like uh bashfulness is just part of like in the performance itself you know one thing i'm thinking about is how this might be a thing that i'm now reading into the show that i wouldn't have at the time. Because at the time it would have clearly been read as a dead poet society thing. And now the inspirational teacher genre of movie is basically dead.

Like you never see those movies anymore. So now it's just like this little girl kind of wants to kiss her teacher. That seems weird. But like that, that was always true. It's just a thing that rises more to the surface now that you're not as aware of the genre trappings within which this story exists but also ethan hawke wanted to kiss robin williams and dead poets deciding we all know it you know yeah i remember mr holland's opus has a whole like i want to date a student section of that movie as well god that's right it does oh boy uh i remember mr holland's opus

because it was played i only took band for two years. And when I did, a sub played it in class because a sub can't teach you more music. So they're like, let's just watch a video. My music teacher played that for me. Well, I recall our music teacher was not an attractive man. And there's a line at the start of it where Mr. Holland goes home after his first day, and then he's going to have sex with his wife. And the wife says, oh, do you think the kids realize you came home from school

and you're getting busy with your wife? And all of us in the middle school class were like, bleh. You just made us think about our teacher having sex with his wife when he comes home. Like, awful. It's on Disney Plus. And also, two and a half hours. Good lord. Yeah. Yep. you just made us think about our teacher having sex with his wife when he comes home and awful it's on disney plus and also two and a half hours good lord yeah yep yeah it was richard it was like richard drafts his passion project yeah it truly was an opus and i like how you called him opus henry yeah when opus came home good old screw his wife yeah we then cut back to fourth grade bart gets nominated by sherry and terry

and uh like part of the weird sherry and terry are have a crush on bart kind of thing in the early years or at the very least that yeah i think they do write sherry and terry that they pick out pick on him out of a crush yeah just a few times in these early years they actually had a personality and then yes bart uh bart gets sent away with a note that says please keep bart busy for a few moments and i like this is one of those fun bits you kind of lose with bart too the like bart is such a perfect class clown in these early seasons like he's he's he definitely feels like pulled from like matt graining's childhood of being like the creative class clown a teacher doesn't give a shit about and just sees as an

obstacle to learning and and doesn't help also that edna can see like oh god bart's gonna beat martin in this like she can already tell it is i love that she says like don't encourage him when you do that he and then they go yay bart i thought i like in my head i put a scene in here in which he goes to the principal's office and talks to Skinner. I thought that was coming just in my head. It is interesting the way that all of these characters, we've talked about how they lose some of this early characterization. And it's always in service of comedy, but it's also always in service of, well, now they just hate everybody. Like, it doesn't really happen with Bart, but it definitely becomes like, oh, he's kind of picked on and nobody quite likes him and like in these early seasons yeah he's like vaguely popular and I that's a that's a marked contrast from where he'd be even by like season five season six I I

blame Merkin who I think Merkin's seasons are my favorite seasons five and six but in that case with Bart I blame him for giving Bart so many bullies and just loving scenes of the bullies beating the crap out of Bart that I feel I feel like that's when once the bullies overwhelmed Bart it made him into a de facto nerd not a cool kid yeah but are these kids like hooting like Arsenio Hall's audience is that a reference I think that is it yeah I they definitely they are doing the the dog pound sounds. Also, creepy drawing of Bart. I'm disturbed by the open mouth, like white teeth and black.

Like a black void. A black void of Bart's mouth when he's doing the blow on the window trick. Meanwhile, we get to hear a very sweet moment with Mr bergstrom in the classroom here nobody of the hundreds of people that had visited the fair knew that a gray spider had played the most important part of all no one was with her when she died man and that was the most they could use of charlotte's web because they couldn't clear it yeah so legally that's the most you can quote from a book without having to pay for it it was a uh i gotta say first off what a whirlwind day in class that he read yeah i looked up an audiobook of it

it's like it's uh the audiobook of charlotte's web is three and a half hours so it's not impossible that he could have read the whole book in class my question is was this part of like curriculum because this was this happened to me like they read charlotte's web to us and it took place over several days and i think at some point in the 90s were they like this is how we teach kids about death everybody gets charlotte's web read to them and then you learn about death that way because it happened to me that way too yeah i wish i had gotten read charlotte's way we had to read the giver that was how you learned about like dead death and stuff i mean i grew up in farm country where we didn't have the fox television network so we read charlotte's web all the time uh yeah that that guy 3002 on twitter found all these amazing details uh a post in 2019

about like he actually had the memo that anatol uh clebato the anatol clebonel clebonel i don't know i don't know that's it the the lawyer for the simpsons who told them like it's the memo of him saying the eb white estate says you can't do this cut every line but the last two in this line here and also that guy found design elements of the simpsons version of the charlotte's web cover that they had to get rid of from the art pack because they're like no you can't even parody the cover like that's the uh and it was uh all decided december 1990 uh based on the memo date so i appreciate that guy 3002 doing doing the Simpsons work there. But yeah, I actually never read the book as a kid.

I watched the Hanna-Barbera movie many times, and it did make me cry as a little kid. But also, I think I mostly preferred the rat in his song about eating a bunch of food. That's what sticks with me most. There wasn't a dry eye in the house when we got to the ending of Charlotte's Web in my classroom. We cut to Bergstrom trying to discover people's talent he's being very supportive though i definitely as a kid was more like lisa in these moments of like even when a teacher was being earnestly supportive i was like please don't please don't don't talk to me i don't know i i can't please like i lisa lisa's really good here of her just demand of like please i can't don't don't talk to

me yeah like the anxiety yardley plays that in childhood anxiety very realistically but they're right to point out on the commentary that lisa regularly does solos in front of the entire class in the opening every week well that's true the opening is not canon though yeah i just feel like i feel like the opening of the show is the when the Simpsons family finally attains its final form. That is the finale. We're watching the finale at the start of the show every week. And like, that's how you got to end the show. They're finally just like in their best selves.

They're sitting down to watch their life story on TV. That's how it happens. It'll be like the end of the U.S office where they all watch the show yeah and so also marge should fall in love with a random boom mic operator or something yeah i mean we we need her to leave homer already guys that's like uh now when i think about it too much having eyelids your yellow eyelids turned inside out why are they pink if your skin is yellow why would it be pink on the inside i i don't know it's also funny just hearing dustin hoffman say ralph like great great job ralph like i just it's it's nice to think of dustin hoffman addressing ralph in

his career uh and uh so then in this next bit i have here edna coming on to dustin hoff uh to to mr bergstrom this confirms that she is separated though not yet divorced which they kind of had to deal with because her name is mrs krabappel it's always been mrs krabappel not miss krabappel so they got to deal with that somehow and i thought it was the first time she was horny but i was wrong bob you remembered her previous horny scene yeah in uh the fugu fish episode she is the reason why the master chef can't cut the fish because they're having sex in his car or maybe her car who knows uh but but here uh edna reveals a new part of her nature to this substitute teacher lisa come on you're holding out on us i see a saxophone over there i can't come on lisa i bet you're good no really i. I see a saxophone over there. I can't. Come on, Lisa.

I bet you're good. No, really, I can't. Sure you can. Just try. Please don't make me do it. All right. You owe me something special. So, while I'm technically still married,

there really hasn't been any marriage to speak of since Mr. Krabappel moved into his little love nest. This profession can put a lot of strain on a marriage. Since he's been gone, I've been looking for a substitute to teach me a lesson I sorely need. Mrs. Krabappel, you're trying to seduce me. Well? I'm sorry, Mrs. Krabappel, you're very nice, but it's the children I love. Feels like it was novel at the time. But when I hear famous actors recreating scenes and parodies like that,

it just reminds me of like Shrek or like the Rocky and Bullwinkle live action movie where Robert De Niro just does a you're talking to me. Like this moments like that. They just feel like all right come on this is too cute let's not do this i mean dunkechino was the peak of that but i think it's actually funny sure i don't mind when it is the actor themselves reprising it if it's clear they're having fun with it like he is here honestly like robert de niro does in the rocky and pull winkle movie you

know it's not always great it's not always like artistically the best idea but like when it's an actor reprising their own thing i'm like yeah whatever sure fine and dustin hoffman's having a great time here so why not and it's funny too in the uh in the brooks world a few years before this episode it's the gary shandling show would do their own graduate parody uh with uh and bancroft right that's the no oh yeah and bancroft future star i guess star of the simpsons and and she would she tries to seduce gary shandling in that episode and they recreate scenes from it like i so it wasn't even like that new to have Hoffman say it, but that, uh, as a little kid, obviously that scene and the, the, you know, very famous camera angle of him saying

it through the woman's legs meant nothing to me as an eight year old. I was like, well, whenever this is, I don't get this weird scene, but I guess I think it made my, my parents laugh. The graduate too is like, how much is it talked about these days? I feel like it's a, it was very important in the nineties. it made my my parents laugh the graduate two is like how much is it talked about these days i feel like it's uh it was very important in the 90s like what 20 percent of wayne's world two was was the graduate you know i feel like it's one of those things that has slipped into uh our cultural gene pool in a weird way where like yeah maybe people don't know what's being parodied like it's certainly not a movie that like gen z is watching but you know so many of the things from it are so

famous and i think also the simon and garfunkel songs continue to be well known so like i like i think there is an element of the graduate will the graduate will always be with us in a way that like rain man will not even though arguably like rain man was had a bigger overall influence on like for the negative on depiction of people on the autism spectrum but yeah the graduate just has infiltrated our culture seeped into the groundwater in a weird way maybe for me for my generation our generation like for me the the films of wes anderson kind of like replaced the need for uh the graduate for me i rushmore with was my graduate i didn't need to watch the graduate all that much i could watch rushmore 800 times i think we can all agree that garden

state replaced the graduate i just wanted to hear henry react to that how we use electricity can be smarter, cleaner and greener. At Electric Ireland, we can help guide you there. You see, our new Net Zero Hub has all you need to know about smart meter plans,

EV tariffs, solar panels and much more. Making your usage clearer, your trips greener, your home cozier and your world brighter. Find our net zero hub at electricireland.ie. Look, and I earn my right to say that, Bleck, because I did listen to that soundtrack 8 million times that year.

And now I look back on it and it's like, why was I so basic? That's how I feel about it now. You don't like the shins? do i love the shit i was listening to the shins way before natalie portman told me to listen to the shins i was i was there before that they'll change your life man but yeah so then lisa plays her saxophone and bergstrom really appreciates that it's a very cute shot as well uh and we come back from the commercial break and i really love this sequence of lisa marge like just it it drives on the point it makes this about homer now and that homer to lisa homer is impossible to even imagine someone being attracted to them or loving them which i i just i

love this whole sequence here with margin lisa when. When I fall asleep, Mr. Bergstrom is the last thing I think of, and he's my first thought when I wake up. I feel that way about your father. No, no, you don't understand. When Mr. Bergstrom smiles, you only see these teeth. But when you really make him laugh, you can see these two teeth. I think they're called the eye teeth. I don't know if he had orthodontic work or what, but they're absolutely perfect.

I notice little things about your father, too. No, Mom, this is different. I mean, this man makes you feel like there's nobody better. Your father does that to me. Mom, are we going to talk or are we going to talk? Lisa, we can talk, but first you have to accept the fact that I feel that way about your father. Fine. Yesterday, he read a Charlotte's Web and cried at the end, never trying to hide his tears.

The book made him cry. They're so cruel. I love that. I mean, it ties into the story, but it's also relatable. Like, the first time you fall in love, you're like, no one has felt this way. No one has met a person like this in their entire lives i gotta tell the world i gotta write a lot of crappy songs poetry and that like telling a parent about your first crush and them just humoring you is like it's it's it's sweet too but but just now on the other side of so many

episodes of the simpsons of and homer being like a real asshole i'm more on lisa's side now like no marge it's unbelievable i can't think you actually find anything attractive or sweet about homer or notice anything about homer you find like wonderful or that make your heart flutter and at this time in the show it's more believable that marge could have those feelings he's a changed person henry yes yeah that's true that yeah there's so many jokes about like marge's deep denial that i suppose that it more fits into that uh way of thinking about their relationship but uh but i also just love how lisa's grumbling at the re like seeing homer and bart mock a man for crying that she's like yeah like she's that's perfect and then also like nancy's so funny, just acting all like boo-hoo-hoo.

Like, ah, good. Good stuff. We then cut back to the classroom. And this is when, in this really quick clip here, Bergstrom learns how much Lisa hates Homer. Remember, nobody, and I mean nobody, gets back in after lunch without one igneous rock that's volcanic and one sedimentary, and that is layered. Lisa, can I see you for a minute? Yes.

Yes, Mr. Bergstrom? Lisa, your homework is always so neat. How can I put this? Does your father help you with it? No. Homework's not my father's specialty. Well, there's no shame in it. I mean, my dad could-

Not mine. You didn't let me finish. Unless the next word was burp, you didn't have to. Oh, man. So cutting. But Homer will be so shitty to her later like even just in this episode i feel it's pretty deserved uh also like just to be insulted on her behalf of like no my come on my father wouldn't help me at all with my homework i mean we'll get to it but i don't think homer deserves to be forgiven at the

end of this episode yes yeah the way yardley way Yardley swallows the work in homework makes it sound like she's saying Homer's not my father. And then she says father's specialty and you're like, oh, homework. And like, unless the next word was burp, you didn't have to. Like, oh, man, it's so, so great. Then we cut back to the fourth grade election and you know obviously this always you can always find parallels with today or whatever but i you know now seeing the scene where bart is demanding more asbestos and more danger like of just of martin pointing out the health risks of a certain thing and bart demanding

more asbestos uh in in the days of anti-vaxxing is uh feels familiar yeah yeah people love being self-destructive it's their choice damn it they demand it it's bart right it's bart's right to demand let us die yeah uh i told jokingly told a friend as I was rewatching this episode today that the class president storyline is one of the great commentaries on democracy. And I kind of stand by that. Right up there with the Kang and Kodos running for president, Treehouse of Horror segment. I mean, I know we originally covered this episode in like spring of 2016. Our first go around. Yes, I'm sure we were making uh some correlations to uh current

elections that were happening i i bet we thought that the bart in 2016 would lose then too i bet we mistakenly said that but bart's popularism definitely while being incredibly uninformed like that that's definitely the statement they're making even then. Like, yeah, the most popular person versus the one who would more, you know, more ably do the job or more competently do the job. That's what it's all about. But just Martin's like, I love the developing flop sweat on Martin throughout the whole course of this story. And it cuts to home. Homer learns, actually is invested in bart's life for once because he's popular this this does this does tie into homer saying like uh in season one like

being popular or getting people to like you is the most important thing and like he that's why bart becomes friends with the bullies and cuts off the head of the jebediah springfield because homer told him being popular is the most important thing I love the staging of Bart maybe a foot away from the television it's great yeah they stopped doing that uh as the show went on but I love the sitting too close to the tv Bart it's great the stories barely intersect but just having the scene where Homer cares so much about Bart being class president when he doesn't give a single shit about lisa in any way in an episode it makes the it makes his relationship with lisa all the more you know friction filled i think because because of that that is always the problem with this show and like i this is a podcast about the

simpsons so you've obviously talked about this before but the show's gravity requires everyone to forgive hom and Homer frequently does unforgivable things. And that's, that's within the tension of the show and it works a lot better in these seasons when they don't have enough money to go around and they sort of are stuck together. It's much less of an, of a thing now that they're like taking a vacation every episode. But yeah, there is this, that element of, Oh, of course homer's the worst father homer's the worst

husband and you know i am astonished to show god as far as it did with like having him make the barest semblance of an apology at the end of an episode and everyone would be like okay well we're stuck with you know at this point too homer's not committed as many sins as he would by like season five or whatever we have to forgive him for something homer hasn't like literally killed people on screen yet through his accidents you know also homer gives bart a go get him speech which is very similar to the one homer's half brother herb gives him a few episodes earlier where it's just like now go get him and bart runs off screen just like homer screaming or growling yeah i also that guy on twitter uh he had some of sam simon's original notes for like the adr

editions for this episode and this segment didn't originally have music over it it had dialogue and they decided like no no the the bart montage should just have music over it but homer gets more invested than he almost ever does in bart's life like he helps him make campaign posters and everything i love that anarchy the sex and anarchy ones both are pretty badass posters for those moments remind me of election another of my like favorite movies growing up oh yeah yeah martin prince's poster is that a parody of another poster or something? I couldn't find out what it was. I was looking for it too, but I couldn't find it. Yeah.

It is. I don't remember what it is. I feel like it's an 1800s presidential campaign poster. I've seen it before. I'm sure somebody's going to be like, yeah, that was Bill Clinton's campaign poster. I'll be like, this episode aired in 1991. You don't know what you're talking about. And they'll produce the Arkansas gubernatorial thing i think i i feel like it's a random 1800s

one that was like in a lot of history books let's say willard fillmore right he's a safe guy to go to uh i've heard mallard fillmore he's so funny no no uh so so yes uh and, sorry, Millard Fillmore. But this allows a really good crossover moment of Lisa just watching this Bart B story. And I really love this moment of her and Bergstrom because she's just being a cynical child who's just like, God, you'll never go broke appealing to the lowest common denominator. And then Bergstrom being older in years, he's just like you're gonna miss this you'll have nostalgia for this like he has this you know this wisdom with age it's a really fun it's a it's a like deep exchange between the two of them i like it but uh but lisa lisa is uh right about that i think that also feels more about her like uh political leanings we'd see in in later episodes too there's an interesting thing about this episode

which is basically you know if you want to extend it to modern political uh times uh bart is the populist the the man of the people who's you know saying what we're all thinking or whatever and yet the ultimate victor is martin because he's the only one who cares enough to vote. And Lisa's the character who, you know, is going to be a success. There is a very, there's a lack of cynicism to that. That is, I don't want to say jarring, because I'm not like, obviously I've seen this episode dozens of times, but there is something about it that kind of cuts against like what you would do with an episode like this now.

Like if you were doing this episode now and god they've probably done five variations on this sense like you would have bart accidentally become class president because he just like makes everybody so excited like um south park did with uh mr garrison as their trump stand-in and like this is this is such a like sweet reminder of a time when people were like, well, you know, democracy works. The right people aren't voting. There's not, you know, season two i think bergstrom is just taking it back that she would even use that term to describe him which also feels like how you know people in the

70s described dustin hoffman just like in a movie review like hoffman with his semitic good looks or whatever back when him and elliot gould were like the biggest movie stars now i guess uh what paul rudd he's he's the semitic good looks maybe well i'm trying to think of somebody else who could go in there oh adam driver oh yeah yeah yeah he's the one you'd describe with that you gotta think i mean i appreciate any movie star with a big nose having one myself so thumbs up to hoffman and Driver making it work. Also, I have the clip here. This is the first true appearance of Ralph. So obviously Ralph has appeared on screen many times before. He's even in Simpsons roasting on an open fire,

or at least the character design of a character who would later be called Ralph is there mentioning like he's the Santa Claus with the eyes in the back of his head. And they'd write him to of like oh ralph they called him ralph originally because he was supposed to be like ralph cramden kind of a pushy kid but uh in this case john vd described it as he remembered a kid very like blankly reading a dumb letter he wrote in in kindergarten class and how funny that was and writing kind of a slow kid reading his letter would be the comedy. And he didn't write, he says he didn't write it to be Ralph.

He just said that they have only so many kids that are in Lisa's class. And so they make it that kid and it grew from there. So he writes the scene of a slightly slow kid reading this letter to his teacher. And that becomes the Ralph we all know and love today. Oh, you'll never go broke appealing to the lowest common denominator. You're going to miss your brother's antics. When? When? When your life takes you places the rest of us have only heard about.

Places where my intelligence will be an asset and not a liability? Yes, there is such a place. Believe me, it's true. I believe everything you say with your words, your body language, and your Semitic good looks. Dear Miss Hoover, you have Lyme disease. We miss you. Kevin's biting me. Come back soon.

Here's a drawing of a spirochete. Love, Ralph. Oh, that's great, Ralph. Yeah, that delivery dude, that's great, Ralph. I guess, I mean, Ralph would evolve, but i like the idea just like a tactless little boy who is just realistically a little kid it's like you know the thing you're afraid of going into your brain i drew it and i think you'll like it do you remember like late 90s pcs you could download like little um sound clips to like play when you opened a file or whatever

for some reason everyone at my school had downloaded the Ralph. There was just like a pack of Ralph quotes. And so I'm always like, well, Ralph is a very hip new character on The Simpsons that people are, because that was at the point when Ralph was like kind of taking over the show. They were giving him a lot of the best jokes

and he was in every episode doing something. And now I realize that that was a long time ago. But yeah, every time i hear a ralph line i think of what if i was uh using my gateway 2000 person computer uh what if you turn it on it says me fail english uh you hear one ralph quote you're like well that's when i empty the recycle bin that's yeah yeah no i i think of that for uh the film the mst3 episode mitchell because multiple way it drove my parents crazy to have to hear multiple different characters saying mitchell no matter what action they eventually they had to have a mitchell conversation with me of like put it back to the old sounds i don't want to hear that sounds great that sounds great

you're not appreciating mitchell on the same level as me, mom. So in between these scenes here, this is when Lisa finds out that the Natural History Museum is closing. You can assume that she asked Marge to take her, and then in the next scene Marge asks Homer to do it because that's how Marge learns about it. I was thinking about this location. Was it in the shorts? I'm pretty sure it was.

There's a museum episode in the shorts. It's also a level in uh bart versus the space mutants for whatever reason uh i guess they were just short of location on locations but yeah this is it and i guess they can never go back there yeah they close forever i mean they go to other museums you know they that natural history museum goes in and out all the time. I think Mo has led a mob to destroy the Natural History Museum at least once. Yes. Not twice. So, it comes and goes. But yes, this is another first, everybody.

The first time Homer speaks to his brain. A true watershed moment in running gags for the series. Lisa needs to go to the museum tomorrow, and I think you should take her. The museum? Tomorrow. Oh, my, Marge, I'd love to, but I was planning on sleeping,

eating a big sandwich, watching TV, spending time with the boy. Spending time with the boy. The boy needs attention, Marge. I've been talking to Lisa and I'm concerned about your relationship with her. Me too, Mom. I think they're drifting apart. Shut up, boy. Homer,

please. You don't understand. I can't do it because... You're trapped. If you were smarter, you might think of something, but you're not, so you just might as well... Alright, alright, I'll take her. Lousy brain. Oh, God, I love it. This love it this is bringing like you're trapped if you're smarty uh just so good writing his brain is a different character is always great

and of course the they would escalate this point to the part where his like brain would leave his body pass out yeah it's uh or him just getting out of a sequence with his brain and he talks into his brain and says what he thinks his brain would say. Like, God, Homer's brain, I think they realized they overdid it too much by the end of like season four. They like cut it back a bit, but I love every Homer's brain bit. It's funny every single time to me. Marge also has a little more, I don't know, emotional intelligence that she's written

in other episodes that she is recognizing early in this episode to like Lisa does not like you, Homer. And I would like that to change. Like she's so many times she's trying to navigate this or try to repair the relationship between Lisa and Homer and it's failing. And I think other times they'd write Marge is not even like engaged in that relationship, you know. But but I like here that she's like, no, I really think you should spend time with Mar with Lisa. think other times they'd write marge is not even like engaged in that relationship you know but but i like here that she's like no i really think you should spend time with mar uh with lisa well again homer does come off as such an asshole here of like no i don't want to like i i want to do literally anything else than go to a museum with my daughter again this would become more of a joke

in the scully seasons where homer just like literally blows up lisa's room and then and refuses to go to a book fair at first because he he doesn't feel that bad about destroying all of her possessions with dynamite but you know that's that's how time time changes in the show i also like a decade later yeah i like to the bart just like sells out homer like me too mom like that's that's great uh and then of course homer because he's an asshole is just like oh he'd never go to a museum and he would certainly never pay a museum money if he didn't have to which is just he's such a dick here but he's so funny in it and i just love the look on lisa's face of just like she's so depressed like she's humiliated as homer gives

this whole speech about not having to pay hey Hey, what do you mean by suggested donation? You can pay any amount you wish, sir. And what if I wish to pay zero? Well, it's up to you. Oh, so it's up to me, is it? Yes. I see. And you think that people are going to pay you $4.50 even though they don't have to?

Just out of the goodness of their... Well, anything you say, good luck, lady. You're going to need it. Mr. Bergstrom. Hi, Lisa. Hey, you don't have to pay. Read the sign. And this must be your father.

And, you know, I just went to Chicago, actually, at the time of this. And I went to one really cool museum i look there was more were there collectible marvel comic books there that like i got to see amazing fantasy 15 right in front of me like yes i did go to see that but i looked at real things there too i i learned about the histories of trains in chicago was there a suggested donation uh no we had to pay like 70 bucks or something for it. It is, like, obviously the joke is that Homer's making such a big deal out of how cheap it is. But it is kind of funny to have this, like, I had this moment of being like, wow, were we really concerned about 450 in 1991?

I felt very old watching this episode several times. And that was one of them. I think Homer is just so used to getting screwed. He's relishing in the idea of like i can i can abuse this law yeah the joke is not that at all but i just was like wow 450 right suggested donation i just like homer relishing in the one time he can pull one over on someone and totally get away with it and just the way he goes like okay all right good luck with that good luck uh and then just the way he screams at bergstrom like hey hey you don't have to pay like uh it's so good by the way bergstrom is wearing the simpsons crew jacket in uh in these scenes so he's drawn fully

look like mike reese by the way so even wearing the jacket that we have long coveted the very the very same jacket that if you see Matt Groening in the wild, if it's cold enough in LA, you'll probably see him wearing that jacket. I remember we interviewed Spencer Grammer from Rick and Morty, who also is the daughter of Kelsey Grammer. And she talked about how all her friends were jealous of her because she got to have one of those Simpsons crew jackets thanks to Kelsey Grammer working on the show. I certainly would have been jealous of her as a kid. mean already jealous of like your dad's fraser and you get a simpsons jacket you can buy those on ebay i'm gonna look this up i've seen i've seen that some

people have bought them at i don't know about ebay or if it was like uh you know heritage auctions or something but i've i've seen folks buy them i don't think they're cheap even for like a season 28 one or whatever uh and every year there'd be a new patch for the season so i guess the more patches that are on it the more expensive it is the uh yeah the uh uh cast and crew for the movie is 180 bucks there is a cast and crew jacket red red leather, extremely rare, Holy Grail vintage. It says $5,000 for best offer. So let's pool our money. Let's make it happen.

We can share it like in three men in a comic book. We've talked to enough Simpsons writers. We can talk one of them into sending us theirs. Like there's got to be one floating around in an attic or like a closet or something. Bill Oakley can't want his anymore right i bet he oh yeah this has patches on it wow this is a this is a real one this is very obviously a real jacket and uh you can you can buy it uh for five thousand dollars or 209 for 24 months with paypal credit yeah i i'm losing money not signing up for that paypal credit

but yeah this uh this bit here of going around the museum i like that bergstrom is kind of like cheating treating homer like a child he's like teaching homer just as much as much as lisa here yeah you see uh him telling lisa about the uh the t-rex and then him telling homer about the mummy yes no actually homer uh it's like that whole sequence is a homer is kind of a monster in this episode but that whole sequence when he's like saying i sure would rather be chased by him than the wolfman it's just a dad joke like we should not be too hard on him for making a dad joke yeah you know that moment uh plays differently to me in at the beginning and at the end because the

first time i i was re-watching it for this i was like yeah stupid old homer thinks the werewolf is real but then when you see homer's reaction to lisa's like shaking his head it much more reads that homer's like oh that she didn't think my joke was funny i was joking around with her and bergstrom isn't like what an idiot he knows homer was making a joke but lisa's like oh my stupid father come this way with me mr bergstrom but by a year later in the show Homer believing werewolves real would just be like a straight ahead joke it would not be a dad joke a boogeyman or boogeymen in the house exactly exactly that little moment of Homer recognizing that like oh my doubt my daughter thinks I'm an idiot and likes this guy way better

and then how bergstrom looks back and he's like just this awkwardness that he feels in that moment is really really well done it's like kind of subtle emotion for the show that you're not always used to seeing as opposed to how uh big homer's emotions are in this next scene as bergstrom confronts him as big as a sandwich yes What a big sandwich he has in this scene. Mr. Simpson, I'm going to be presumptuous. I have noticed that Lisa seems to feel she has no strong male role model. She said that? Well, no, she didn't say it, but you know, she.

But you can tell, right? She looks around and sees everybody else's dad with a good education, youthful looks and a clean credit record and thinks, why me? What did I do to deserve this bad old piece of. fat old piece of you have got to be a bigger man there is a wonderful girl's future at stake well if she's a wonderful give her an a i am giving her an a great but don't tell her it was a favor to me tell her she earned mr simpson she did earn it you aren't smooth i'll give you that oh oh god man that scene i homer's desperate sadness that instantly goes into like well they So give me that. Oh, God, man. That scene. Homer's desperate sadness that instantly goes into like, well, they give her an A like that.

They're having a lot of fun with just Homer's like instant mood swings. Also, one of my all time favorite drawings of Homer is just him going like, why me? Like that. It's such a crazy drawing. His eyes are bugging out. Yeah. But also like the cruelty of Homer here. Not just that he like he goes from having this why me thing and when bergstrom tells him like well no this is about

your daughter the be bigger than that don't be sad and then he just goes like well then give her an a because i told you to because because he doesn't it like it feels like extra cruel that he doesn't even seem to believe lisa could earn an a on her own because he doesn't know that she's a good student like it's just it's all just so mean it's it's really hard to uh forgive homer here but uh but also it's fun fun little lightning rod uh i like the static shock hair on homer too that's a funny drawing but yeah homer just walks away and bergstrom i think too just is left with this feeling of like what can i do like this I I can't even get through to this guy he sees this and then leaves town he's like I cannot even say goodbye to Lisa this troubled girl I must leave not even like a note or a postcard or anything I must leave forever

it breaks my heart too much to see Homer to see that she's trapped with his father I can't even be near it it makes me too sad uh VD says this was a brooks idea that the third act twist would be or the end is act two would be a misdirect that they would act like oh the setup for act three is mr bergstrom comes to dinner and that to instantly pull the rug out under you like it's it's a really smart turn uh writing wise like i as a kid i i definitely thought oh then the next thing is about the the mr bergstrom comes to dinner kind of thing. And then just seeing that arrival of Miss Hoover coming back, it's like, wow, look at that. Like, it's everything I thought is a lie.

And then there's a cute little yes, no exchange with Marge and Lisa. Lisa testing the boundaries of what she can do. I know as a kid, I did not get all these jokes about Judaism and the Jewish faith and why Mr. Berksham wouldn't want pork chops. Oh, wow. Yes, right. I always forget that joke. She says, can we have pork chops? And Bart goes like, no.

Like, yeah. But also like dyeing your shoes pink. I did not. That feels very old, I guess. I don't know. Would kids dye their shoes? Would little girls dye their shoes now? I didn't really get that.

I dye my shoes all the time. I'm a woman of a certain vintage. I apologize. No, I have never once dyed my shoes. Oh, okay. I do feel like tie-dye continues to be a thing. Oh, sure, sure. And this is not quite tie-dye so like but it's kind of in the

same zone so i'll allow it uh and when lisa sees the reveal of miss hoover it's this cool like zoom in it looks even slightly digital but uh rich more the director of this he used that same shot with lisa in his treehouse of horror earlier this season when uh you know she sees the how to cook humans book hungry are the damned yes and so uh we come back from act three into act three miss hoover explains why she's not there and i this is a very funny thing it's a great line i like how insulting the kids are and she's just on board with it like actually it's a little of both yes not to ruin the joke you see class my You see, class, my Lyme disease turned out to be psychosomatic. Does that mean you're crazy? No, that means he was faking it.

No, actually, it was a little of both. Sometimes when a disease is in all the magazines and on all the news shows, it's only natural that you think you have it. Where's Mr. Bergstrom? I don't know. Although I'd sure like to talk to him. He didn't touch my lesson plan. Well, what did he teach you?

That life is worth living. You know, you were investigating it earlier, Henry, but I think that doctor was in the pocket of big Lyme disease medication. Overprescribing. Going along with it. Like, yes, you do have Lyme disease. You need this prescription. I agree.

I like that. Man, I just... Does that mean you're crazy no i mean she was faking it actually is a little both like such a great line she took it as a teaching moment to teach the kids about the word psychosomatic and it taught me that as an eight-year-old i was like oh that's what it means i've i've i cite it anytime i say it i am thinking of this scene is like oh this is what i mean when i say that you're you're crazy and you're faking it. That's what it means. Like, no, no, no.

It's that complex. I will say I kind of was not a, I was kind of saying Miss Hoover's not a great character earlier. But the line delivery of, it's actually, it's a little bit of both. It's just pitch perfect. Terrific work. Wonderful. Yeah, I think it's an underappreciated role by uh my maggie roswell she's uh i mean in general she's too underappreciated on the show

and that in by season 10 they go like do we even need her get her out of here we gotta record her in denver blah which is really too bad because she's she's great as maude helen lovejoy above and uh mill luann van houten and miss hoover sherry bobbins as well sherry but she rules she runs that episode doesn't work without her like at all but yeah i think also it's a great show of what lisa has already lost that miss hoover like doesn't give a shit about lisa like lisa runs off crying and she doesn't do anything she's just like ah what did he even teach you like she but lisa's back to being ignored by her teacher once more i guess he just hoover just lets her leave yes yeah

it's like she'll figure it out go investigate i haven't played many clips from the election but i do have the the end of it here but uh this i love the shot of martin is this rundown candidate just covered in flop sweat, like pale. He's just, he's like, oh, I've lost. It's over. There's nothing more I can say. I love that. I feel like Edna, though, she lets all those kids run off without voting.

She knew what she was letting happen here. But it was for the good of the class, really, I suppose. But yes, Bart celebrates prematurely in this next clip. Hey, thanks for the vote, man. I didn't vote. Voting's for geeks. Oh, you got that right. But yes, Bart celebrates premature't you vote? Uh-oh. I demand a recount. One for Martin, two for Martin. Would you like another recount? No. Well, I just want to make sure.

One for Martin, two for Martin. This way, Mr. President. There we go. The classic Dewey defeats Truman parody, which, again, is an eight-year-old. Nothing to me. Right over the head. That was one of the ones I got because I had, yeah, that was, by the time I saw this episode, I was, yeah, I mean, like 18. So it's not like a surprise.

And also, you know, Bart once went to war with Nelson over cupcakes. Here he's sharing them with him. They're the currency of the Simpsons world in these early seasons. Now, this is where I think John Vita is having fun with the plot because he's asked to write this very sincere story about a teacher that touches Lisa's heart and changes her as a person, enters her life. Act three is when, like, no, Mr. Berksham is a magical man.

He goes from town to town he leaves mysteriously and then he will let you run alongside the train as he leaves your life like you're in a movie yeah he'll give you permission to do that like he's having fun with the idea of the story he was asked to write and i think acting you keep acting like this is all imaginary you you didn't have a substitute teacher like this i thought we all did uh one the one side the the best substitutes for me growing up were just let's watch a video so yeah those were the best ones uh you got something to read well why don't you do that uh there is a brief scene of uh lisa going to the uh cheap hotel that he was living out of to find him where she runs into an adult woman who

is also in love with him because he's just that wonderful of to find him where she runs into an adult woman who was also in love with him because he's just that wonderful of a man though when she describes rail as the backbone of our country like it's like no come on not even in 1990 and uh in leland stanford is the namesake of stanford university he's a really interesting character like a like a rail baron of the 1800s uh the transcendental railroad he drove that golden spike to commemorate it on may 10th 1869 that rail baron would go on to be governor and senator for california and his wife would be uh after he died in in the late 1800s his wife would be murdered in 1906 and never solved. It was strychnine poisoning.

They could never find the culprit. It's a cold case. Yeah. And Stanford, there's got to be a cold case podcast about that one, right? Oh, there has to be at least eight episodes about it. Leland Stanford, it's always interesting to see, like, oh, who was this governor and senator of California during the gold rush? Oh, he was like an insanely rich railroad baron, like a tycoon. Like, it's always been tycoons that take over parts of American government, rich guys.

But anyway, Lisa then, she runs off to the train station. We see a caricature of Jim Reardon drawn into the scene because he's a big train lover, hates airplanes. And so Lisa comes up to him and I think, yeah, there's lines in here that recognize that they know they're in a cliched scene of the farewell at the train station. But it also does, it's interesting. It works as a parody of those scenes, but when it's earnest, it really is very earnest. It's played very real. You just have to forget that Bergstrom was just going to leave without saying goodbye to lisa a little girl who clearly had an attachment to him and had a you know bad father i wonder if it is like you know romantic

relationships he treats that woman who was at the hotel maybe she's used to like oh yeah he didn't even say goodbye just gone in the morning kind of guy whirlwind dating and then he's out of out of here with no warning that's really now i'm dark my dark reading on bergstrom is that's why he's a substitute just goes town to town romances the ladies touching lives breaking hearts serial monogamist he's the he's the don draper of the substitute teacher profession how we use electricity can be smarter, cleaner, and greener. At Electric Ireland, we can help guide you there.

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your home cozier, and your world brighter. Find our net zero hub at electricireland.ie. Bergstrom's not even his real name. That's why he doesn't care if you make fun of it. We don't get a first name in this episode either. But yes, I have the full scene here. It's a little over a minute, but I got to play the whole thing because it is like one of the most beloved scenes in simpsons history with a moment that actually doesn't involve dialogue but when you hear the music in the sequence you know what is on screen you can't

go you're the best teacher i'll ever have oh that's not true other teachers will come along oh please no i can't lie to you i am But, you know, they need me over in the projects of Capital City. But I need you, too. That's the problem with being middle class. Anybody who really cares will abandon you for those who need it more. I... I understand. Mr. Bergstrom, I'm gonna miss you. I'll tell you what.

Whenever you feel like you're alone and there's nobody you can rely on, this is all you need to know. Thank you, Mr. Bergstrom. All aboard! So, I guess this is it. If you don't mind, I'll just run alongside the train

as it speeds you from my wife. Goodbye, Lisa, honey. It'll be OK. Just read the note ah there you go you are lisa simpson but it was supposed to have an exclamation point yep they were they were stuck for an ending and i think james l brooks handed it to john vd and he's like i am lisa simpson what does that mean yeah it's like no that's the ending but it had an exclamation point and it was supposed to in the episode but it didn't vd takes all the blame

for it he's like i should have caught that in the before it went overseas it should be an exclamation point but it's and yeah al jean was like he took the when brooks handed the note he's like wait you want me to think like lisa simpson to come up with the next line? Are you commanding me that I'm Lisa Simpson to think of the next line to write here? The one thing that strikes me as a bit off in that speech, and I wish that was not in the episode, is the one line about being middle class. And I think maybe it thinks it's a little more clever than it is, but I feel like in the early seasons they were like, well, The Simpsons is the anti-sitcom.

It's an accurate portrayal of what it's like to be in the middle class and yes you do get screwed but it does feel like that statement doesn't really belong in his goodbye speech to lisa the episode is not about that and it feels like i i didn't really the the commentary doesn't really fit there it's a it's a it's a classic simpsons joke that's stuck in a scene that doesn't need a classic simpsons joke um i just i just tweeted this so people who are listening this episode can go and listen to when we recorded it by finding this tweet but i i do think you are lisa simpson is just like like a god tier tv writing moment because it says everything and it says nothing and both of those things feel deeply meaningful if you're like well actually that doesn't mean anything that feels meaningful and if you're like that means everything you're

like that feels meaningful and like i honestly don't know how it works as well as it does i'm i'm a little bit in awe of it and like without that moment this episode doesn't work at all but with that like three second insert shot of that note this episode becomes an all-time tv classic i it's it's great i love it yeah it's i i mean i take it as the answer is like you are yourself like you're always you always be yourself love yourself or just at least know yourself and that's how you'll always be okay if you just know yourself and if you and for lisa to know you are lisa simpson like give you give yourself at least a little confidence even if you're going away like i nowadays she could just say like well i can just follow you on twitter like i know we'll be friends on facebook i'll keep trying

at bergstrom yes here it is just farewell forever i will never see you again also i vd i think on the commentary is a very good point like elf clauston's music really elevates this too like it makes the scene even more powerful and and yardley's acting like the the lines are all great but like her tears are just so like there the emotion is so there in this sequence it's it's so great and yeah the url is emson i think it works just great with uh period i don't know maybe if an exclamation point it might have been too strong uh yeah i think it actually works better as a simple statement i would agree with that i think the period gives it that ambiguous quality

that makes it as beautiful as it is an exclamation mark would have oversold it and then yeah that lisa accepts it's a cliche to chase after the train but she's like i can't help it i'm going to miss you like i i hope also just a very like lisa statement to say i hope you don't mind that i do this instead of saying she is going to do it she says she hopes she doesn't mind and yeah apparently bergstrom's shouting from the train window that was that was recorded on the Hook set. So if it sounds like it, see if you can tell the difference. If it sounds like it's a trailer in LA versus a home in New York City. Can you hear the Captain Hook costume?

Can you hear Bob Hoskins in the background? Then there's a very long shot of Homer talking in the exterior of the home as he reflects on Bart's loss, just to ground us back in that story and this bit is hard to watch like honestly stuff with like mean dads is hard for me to watch sometimes in the show and homer is not played comedically here like i guess actually i think homer thinks he's being funny with some of his lines he's telling to lisa about how he doesn't care but this just is uh yeah i mean I'll just play the whole thing here. Milk, spilt milk, spilt milk.

What are you so mopey about? Nothing. Lisa, tell your father. Mr. Bergstrom left today. Oh? He's gone forever. And? I didn't think you'd understand.

Hey, just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand. I'm glad I'm not crying. Because I would hate for you to think that what I'm about to say is based on emotion. But you, sir, are a baboon! Me? Yes, you! Baboon, baboon, baboon, baboon! I don't think you realize what you're saying.

Baboon! Whoa. Somebody was bound to say it one day. I just can't believe it was her. Did you hear that, Marge? She called me a baboon. The stupidest, ugliest, smelliest ape of them all. Homer, you're not allowed to have hurt feelings right now. There's a little girl upstairs who needs you.

Her confidence in her father is shaken, and no little girl can be happy unless she has faith in her daddy. See, that sound there, too, of Homer. It's like, oh, what an asshole. That sound is like, what a chore. Like, God, God damn. I think one of the things that sets this apart from other episodes about homer being a bad parent is in this scene he starts out kind of trying to be a good parent and failing

badly like he's trying to keep the tone light like he is doing that thing i think we've all done when we're in a conflict with someone where we're like oh we're gonna make this we're just gonna make some jokes we're gonna smooth everything over and what they need is to yell at somebody and like i think that's a quality this episode has that other emotional episodes of the simpsons don't always have especially ones that focus on homer's relationship with either bart or lisa yeah homer's willing to put in the work even though he doesn't care he's like well i'm your dad and i have to talk to you so go ahead yeah but he shouldn't admit that he's like and yeah yeah just say it goes like oh and like yeah i will also god i feel so bad for lisa in this moment

too that she she just says like nothing because she does not want to talk about this with homer but marge pushes her to because she sees like, oh, maybe Homer can surprise us by actually caring about how Lisa is sad. But Marge, you know, leads it in a worse direction by making Lisa talk about a thing she correctly assumed Homer wouldn't give a shit about. There are some touching stuff in this segment. I just feel like it becomes about Homer's redemption and I don't really care. Yes. Yep. I don't really care. Like, oh, Homer's Homer saved. Hoorayay that's the end of the episode and i'm like i don't know no i i love that lisa's lisa's speech about i'm glad i'm not crying that also

feels like a very jim's james l brooks line but just like i'm glad i'm not crying because if i were you think this is based on emotion just like that she wants to make it clear to Homer I fucking hate you like I really hate you I don't want you to think I'm a crazy woman just sobbing in tears right now I want you to see me straight faced you're a baboon to me you are nothing like that that makes it so much more powerful and yeah then it you're right Bob then it sticks with Homer's perspective for the rest of the episode. We're not with Lisa anymore. When we visit Lisa's room, it's with Homer into the room. I do remember VD said he spent like three days writing just this bedroom sequence because he just felt like he could not get a handle on it.

Like it is the emotional resolution. The episode, it says it was real hard for him. And I just, it is, don't think homer earns this i don't and i feel like it you're it becomes about homer not lisa in the end of lisa's goddamn episode yeah like the action of the scene is like the resolution is homer makes lisa laugh and then she can admit like i don't hate you but like nothing else is resolved it's just like well now you feel better and i can leave but lisa still needs a good father figure which homer really isn't i don't know i think that's brilliant i think that that element of she makes him laugh and she doesn't hate him anymore or he makes her

laugh and she doesn't hate him anymore is so much of what living in a relationship is you get in a fight and you can't get to the place where you're going to like actually fix it just yet but you can get to a place where you don't hate each other anymore and like a relationship built on that ultimately is a shaky one and the reason the simpsons doesn't have to examine that is because we're never actually going to see lisa grow up into a teenager young adult adult but i really do like look at this and think this is a pretty accurate portrayal of like loving someone that you also hate and like i don't know i think it works i do agree that shifting the pov is maybe a little bit of a cheat in terms of resolving the story because it shifts our sympathy character but by this point we're so drawn into lisa that i think they earn it and i do the the thing i like most in homer's speech

is that his speech is about how he knows lisa's going to like leave him someday and he kind of is feeling he's feeling abandonment from her already when it's like a decade at least before she would probably leave but he's like he understands you're better than me you'll be i'll be working for you or guys like me will be serving drinks like he he already feels inferior to his daughter i think they're showing that at least but below all of like his just callousness earlier is this is his acknowledgement that like oh you're way smarter than me i'm not as good as you i like that part of it it's just kind of saying like even if you don't like me i won't be part of your life for a long time uh but yes uh here i i've got the whole the whole homer lisa makeup scene here

uh which is our final clip this isn't going well at all look if you just want me to forgive you no no i just wish i knew what to say. Although maybe this music will help. Now, you lost someone special, and it hurts. I'm lucky because I never lost anyone special to me. Everyone special to me is under this roof. It's true. Now, you'll have lots of special people in your life, Lisa. There's probably some place where they all get together

and the food is real good and guys like me are serving drinks. Oh, well, maybe I can't explain all this, but I can fix your dollhouse for you. At least I'm good at monkey work. You know, monkey. You know what I mean? Yeah.

I can hold these nails in place of my tail. You're so silly. Give me a banana. I don't have any bananas. Come on, you're holding out on me. I'm sorry I called you a baboon, Dad. You're nothing, Abby. I think it's also,

what paves over the things I don't like about this scene are the performances. They're just played so real, you can tell they're in the same room. I like, you can really hear Yardley. Lisa still wants to be mad, and she's kind of like being won over slowly, but she still wants to be mad at Homer throughout this.

Yeah, no, I love the performances there, being won over slowly but she still wants to be mad at homer throughout this yeah no i uh uh i love the performances there and i love i love the acknowledgement from homer that lisa is who's who the the thing he's going to leave in the world that might actually make a mark like i think that is um i don't want to say profound because it's not like an exactly a very difficult thing for him to get to but it feels meaningful that he has gotten to that place in this episode i i you know i agree that maybe he gets off a little easy but homer always gets off a little easy yeah i guess something that like hurts this scene more in retrospect is like i know the homer i know from later years wouldn't fix that dollhouse like he would just

destroy it and then just lie and say oh yeah i'll fix it never you would blame the dollhouse yeah it's like stupid dollhouse and then destroy it the rest of the way like yeah i also was thinking about how times have changed the you know that end apartheid now poster in the room like that was a pretty uh you know kind of strong political statement for simpsons to be making in 91 i i think uh i would think uh disney would not let them do such a thing in the background as a background gag now i don't know uh i feel like disney is really good at taking political stances that are like uh just like six months ahead of being like just established fact like they'll be like like at this point apartheid is pretty like like is starting to crumble i think it's pretty close to um being removed into i feel like that happened in 92 93

um so like there it's right up it's right on the verge um so it would be like if someone in the background of a simpsons episode now was like we got to do something about climate change like yeah it's just like a problem that everyone is sort of like yeah this is a problem although I don't want to undercut it it was like it was cool I'm glad they did it I'm sure that they effectively ended our part Hyde and yeah this so this is when it stops being a Lisa story in Lisa's episode and it's just about Homer's on a roll, which is like, I think too. I do think it's kind of a smart joke about how Homer for this one minute of the show basically becomes like Danny Tanner or Bill, Dr.

Huxtable, who just fixes everything with a speech, like at the end of a regular sitcom and Homer for once, he's like, holy crap. I'm actually being a successful sitcom dad for once. This is crazy. I'm never good at these things. Yeah. I guess if we saw Homer at all in act one, I think it would help,

you know, make this more fleshed out, but he's not, he's not there. He's just in the school. No, that's true. Act one is the entire,

it's just one school day. That's a, it's kind of rare in the show. The one, an entire act is just a day at school with no cut to the power plant or Homer's fun shenanigans, him meeting some celebrity or whatever. He meets up with Bart.

I have given myself this same speech to myself. This taught me probably a bad lesson as a little kid. Like, oh, did I not get the thing i want or the promotion of work was probably a lot of extra work anyway and it would have been no fun if i got it so it's fine i didn't get that promotion yeah yeah like and you can just lie on your resume anyways exactly you got it i learned that eventually too yes every website you work for will close who's going to call the manager nobody that's who what boss ever looks at your actual transcripts and be like did they actually graduate from that college like i don't think so in the rare times where i had to look over somebody's transcripts in a hiring someone position at a business i was

like i'm i'm i'm sure this is true i need to check these credit hours yes yeah but yeah bart bart is comforted he calls him monkey man. That's really cute too. And he's even able to comfort Maggie, which I think Nancy Cartwright wanted that to be the sound of her own baby or was it her own baby? I don't think it was. It sounds like Nancy doing baby. I think they said it was a different episode in which Nancy's actual baby did baby voices or baby noises rather. And then Homer walks in and meets up with marge and he's like just cuts her short like hey we gotta just stop right now it's the one i i'm on a roll let's just go to bed like it's called a day uh but i think marge needs to be like debriefed

here because like she was really mad at homer yeah it's actually a pretty major thing here i uh yeah i think i though this moment here of Marge and Homer meeting, I associated more with the episode Bart the Murderer. Because they reused this segment for when Homer comes back from hanging out with the mobsters. He says, like, it's just a bunch of guys hanging out to Marge. Like, they just reused this segment for that scene. It is a sweet ending. I kind of wish if it had just ended with Homer and Lisa together, it would have ended on a higher emotional point, but I guess it did need to wrap up the Bart story a little bit.

I suppose the Bart doesn't seem all that broken up about it at his, at the dinner table. I do think it is a smart TV writing solution, even if it kind of ends the episode on a weird note to tie all this together through Homer, who is the one character who's sort of connected to all of it. And you'll see them do that again. They have other episodes where Marge is the connecting character or something like that.

And it makes a lot of sense. I appreciate it as someone who does a lot of writing, just in terms of how elegant it is, even if it doesn't necessarily leave us in the emotional place we might want to be. But I guess overall this episode, I totally think it earns its spot as a classic, classic Simpsons episode. Some parts maybe are,

you know, they, it goes more into emotion than comedy, but they are discovering so many of the jokes that are going to define the series here with Ralph, the brain,er talking to himself and just the the whole bart sequence is is very funny while also then like yardley with lisa finds whole new depths to her character and it's got a great guest star who doesn't like overwhelm the episode with it like oh it's dustin hoffman like yeah danny devito overwhelms his episode in

a great way because danny devito is just that strong of a personality but yeah yeah i think all the times they went for emotion in season two this works the best and i think it's because john vd is one of the best writers of that era alongside john swartzwell are obviously very different goals both men have but i think he is the one who made it work some of these don't work quite as well and of course james l brooks had a big part in this but i feel like they tried to go for it so many times this was the most successful of this era and there's a reason why it's remembered as well as it is there's a few flaws in this that i see now as an adult but i still think it's worth watching and uh yeah the performances are great uh there's a reason why actors should be together yes in the same room they all got

too rich and famous they can't all just record on the same day anymore now but but any uh final thoughts yourself emily yeah you know um i in i think 2007 uh listed this this as um it wasn't like the top five simpsons episodes ever it was just five episodes i liked but it was on that list i will continue to you know if i was going to make a list of my 10 favorite episodes it would be on there i don't it's not my favorite my favorite is marge versus the monorail which i think does everything this show does well just about perfectly but lisa's substitute is just it's hard to pass up i can quibble with it i can make complaints about it but uh it does everything it does really well. I have this, this weird TV critic theory that the heart of good television writing is two

person scenes. And pretty much every episode, every scene in this episode is a great two person scene and they're all different and they all have different goals and they all have different ends. And yeah, I don't know. I think this is a good episode. I think it's a good episode of television gonna go out on a limb wow that two-person scene thing that's a good point I did not consider that

yeah well thank you for so much for being on the show Emily we'd love to have you back but until then please let us know where we can find you online anything else you want to plug please throw it in here I am on uh I my writing appears at Vox I'm the critic at large there. I'm at Vox.com. I am on Twitter at twitter.com slash EmilyVDW. I'm still on Twitter right now, but I'm wavering. So maybe by the time this episode's out, I'll be off. But for now, I'm on twitter.com slash EmilyVDW. You can also listen to my scripted fiction podcast, Arden. It's a comedy show about two women who solve cold cases

and try not to kiss each other the jokes in it are very simpsons influenced i would say that is not a that is not a an unusual thing to say in today's comedy landscape but and i also wrote a book monsters of the week the complete critical companion to the x-files which is available from booksellers now well well it'll be years away but when we go back to that X-Files episode we hey hey I'll do it I'll do it uh no and listeners to this show too you know uh regular guests to the show Kat Bailey she recorded an episode of her podcast Acts of the Blood God talking about Evangelion with you that I also really enjoyed. So if folks would like to hear that too, I'd say look that one up on the Acts of the Blood God feed.

Yeah, yeah. We had a great time together, Kat and I, talking about giant robots. But thank you so much, Emily. You're welcome. I had a great time. Thank you so much to Emily for being on the show. Please check out all of her stuff and ask for us if you want to check out more of our stuff and get all these episodes one week ahead of time and ad-free.

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Plans, President Princess, President Pris. Hey, what's the matter, son? Oh, Dad. If just me, Milhouse, and Lewis had voted... Hey, son. Would you have gotten any money for being class president? No. Would you have to do extra work?

Yeah. And is this Martin guy going to get to do anything neat? Like throw out the first ball at the World Series? Well, no. So let the baby have his bottle. That's my model. Hey, thanks, monkey man. Holy moly.

Talk about parenting. Uh-oh. Sleep well, Maggie. Talk about parenting. Uh-oh. Sleep well, Maggie. Three for three. Homie, did you straighten everything out? Don't say anything, Marge. Let's just go to bed. I'm on the biggest roll of my life.