Talking Simpsons - Talking Simpsons - Lookwell Pilot With Gayest Episode Ever

Episode Date: June 14, 2023

Once more we're breaking format with Drew Mackie and Glen Lakin from the great podcast Gayest Episode Ever Podcast, this time to talk about what Conan O'Brien worked on right before Simpsons! Yes, the "brilliant but canceled" pilot for Lookwell is the cult classic brainchild of Conan and Robert Smigel, where the late Adam West played an aging actor annoying the police. Learn how this pilot came to be and its influence on The Simpsons' fourth season in this beguiling podcast! Support this podcast and get over 150 bonus episodes by visiting Patreon.com/TalkingSimpsons and becoming a patron! And please follow the official Twitter, @TalkSimpsonsPod!

This podcast is brought to you by patreon.com slash talking simpsons head there to check out exclusive podcasts like talking futurama talk king of the hill the what a cartoon movie podcast and tons more. I heartily endorse this event or product. Ahoy, hoy, everybody, and welcome to Talking Simpsons, where our Hedda Gobblers are quite beautiful. I'm your host, the thinking actor, Bob Mackie, and this is our chronological exploration of something other than The Simpsons. Who else is here with me today, as always? I used to play a detective on TV.

Henry Gilbert, hey! And who are our special guests on the line? I've got a Forrest Tucker quality. Drew Mackey! Why do I have to be in the car? Glenn Lakin. And this week we're looking at the Lookwell Pilots. Good, no calls to make.

I'll just kick back and enjoy some television. This pilot originally aired on July 28, 1991, and as always, Henry will tell us what happened on this mythical day in real world history. Oh my god! Oh boy, Bobby, Everything I Do, I Do It For You by Bryan Adams tops the charts. A month in and Terminator 2 is still ruling the box office and final fantasy 4 is released in japan as all aka 2 in the united states a year later it was a summer of thieving princes and killer robots and i remember it well yeah uh terminator 2 i watched a million times

uh robin hood only once on vhs but i heard heard that brian adams song all of the time now i wanted to know this of our guests too because we're all similar ages did you watch terminator 2 when it was a newer movie or did you wait until you were more age appropriate no one would take me so i had to my friend antonio's parents rented it for him when it came out on video and that's how i watched it and i had to just like sit around like an asshole wondering what the movie was about because I didn't get to see it in theaters. I think I saw it on VHS as soon as Blockbuster had it. But the Bryan Adams song definitely had more of an impact on my life than Terminator 2.

Because I remember making my dad continue to drive around the block until that song came on the radio again. And I just like wept in the back seat. You had such power in your house i did not have such power over my parents that's incredible yeah i was like a bitch of a kid how about you henry uh yeah no i listened to uh well terminator 2 yeah i didn't see it until vhs releases back then was probably like more than a year after this in theaters but it came to be one of my favorites especially because it was made to be

the children's terminator because it's they he has a cool kid sidekick in it rated r though yeah so we all have permissive parents because i remember i had at this age i was nine i was not seeking out r-rated movies yet i think my thoughts were like oh they're too scary and gross my parents were like no you'll like this one watch one. So this was pushed on me by my parents. One of a few R rated movies they wanted me to see. And the most starstruck I was watching it was seeing Budnick from Salute Your Shorts. Yes. I was like that.

Budnick is up to something. And he was right. He lies to cops and it taught us all an important lesson. I actually rewatched it because of the last episode of our show that you were on, Henry, because Terminator 2 also features a very small appearance by Nikki Cox, pre-Nikki. And that was part of the prep for that episode, was going back and figuring out who the hell she was in that movie.

She's one of the littlest kids who's asked where the cop can find John Connor. And she is adorable. Also, yeah, the Final Fantasy IV, it's a really good one. I like it a lot. It's, though, of the numbered Super NES slash Super Famicom Final Fantasies, it's my least favorite of the trilogy because I like, a 6 was my favorite story-wise and 5 was my favorite gameplay-wise. Henry, you ignorant slut.

No, he's right. I played this one the most. I played this one the most. I think i've probably finished it at least a dozen times because it's a 20-hour game it's so streamlined i like the economy of it because with five and six you're sitting down to pretty big rpgs but i enjoy them all but i have a soft spot because four is when i started liking rpgs when my brain had developed enough for me to enjoy them i was nine before that i was like what do you do i can't move my

guys what's happening with these menus but this is the one that i it clicked with me so i have a my brain had developed enough for me to enjoy them. I was nine. Before that, I was like, what do you do? I can't move my guys. What's happening with these menus? But this is the one that I, it clicked with me. So I have a real soft spot for this one. I think us too. I think we both really enjoyed it back in the day, but it's weird thinking about how many times I played it and like all the subsequent incarnations it's gotten.

So they keep remaking it. Now I like, I didn't, I liked four. I didn't love, love four because I just rented it because it was a shorter game. I could beat it in a weekend, but I played it. I didn't love, love 4 because I just rented it because it was a shorter game. I could beat it in a weekend. But I played it after I played Lunar, the Silver Star on Sega CD, which is a superior game to me.

And that was my first JRPG. So Final Fantasy 4 Slash 2 was sort of like a lesser Lunar to me. I was a Sega household, sorry. I don't understand. I mean, Final Fantasy 4 doesn't have a full animated opening with a song. Or like a bath

house scene. A hot spring scene. If you look at the original Sega CD cutscenes, it's like an animated GIF. It's a picture, but the mouth moves. Now, in my memory, I replaced that with the remake, the PlayStation remake uh fuller opening

yeah in in defense of other games that aren't final fantasy 4 they remake final fantasy 4 too much only recently did final fantasy 6 get a good remake yeah i mean five only had a like one actual good one i i like game boy advance 5 i think that's the good five. Then you'll like the Pixel remake. Oh, and also, future Netflix superstar Jeffrey Dahmer is arrested this week as well. Oh, okay, really? Yes. Wow, wow. He's brought the justice. Yes, yeah, he's arrested.

And how would he, he couldn't imagine that a little over 30 years later, he'd be the star of many TikToks andoks uh in thirst posts about the uh netflix version of him and you know what i see his glasses are coming back in style the the state issued i'm poor glasses are now are now on every hipster i see like i used to call them jeffrey dahmer glasses wait state issued i'm poor glasses is that that's a term that i made up it's like we'll get you some nice county dentures it's just like yeah you you apply for those glasses when you can't afford them oh see i only associate them with um pervs i i in my brain they're they're they perv glasses but maybe that's okay my own experience i mean the state does create a bunch of pervs that's true you know

they just had that uh recent netflix uh miniseries dommer and there was a lot of discourse about that if it was exploitative or not it was and I agree it was and I like true crime stuff but I sat down to watch it because I was like I'm in Milwaukee this is perfect but the thing is I know too much about Jeffrey Dahmer so it was

very boring oh I see this is taking too long come on pick it up one victim per episode what's going on here that's my own too long. Come on, pick it up. One victim per episode? What's going on here? That's my own take. It just made me feel gross. It made me feel exceptionally gross. And I like dark, gross stuff.

And this was too much for me. I had to back away from it. You sound like me in Marvel movies where I'm just waiting for like the, come on, where's that character I know? To compliment them, they got everything right. Every detail. That's why it is excruciatingly long. And there's too much of it.

But anyway, that's what happened the day that this pilot aired. The only time it aired. And joining us for this non-Simpsons Simpsons podcast once again, we have Drew Mackey and Glenn Lakin from Gayest Episode Ever. Welcome back to the show. Previously, you were both on to talk about Teen Angel. Yeah, I love that you're diversifying our portfolio with more nonsense and shows yeah i like that we're associated with

failure well this one didn't deserve to fail and got much less content than teen angel yeah it did worse than teen angel but is better than it by a good margin you guys guys, we associate you with such great sitcom history that when we were going to dig into the last thing Conan O'Brien did before joining the Simpsons, I was like, well, then it's got to be with our sitcom historians, Drew and Glenn. Well, thank you for having us. This is, yeah, much more enjoyable than Teen Angel. And I got to say, I never actually watched this

until we were prepping for this uh podcast episode even though I know it's been like out in the ether forever so I was happy that you finally forced me to take in this thing that was uh better than I expected you guys recent episode I wanted to compliment I really like the one you did on Martin Mull's character on Roseanne you have lots of clips from other episodes of him. We give a very detailed history of how they slowly revealed the gayness of his character in the show. Well, thank you. That happened because I couldn't decide what episode to do. So I watched like eight episodes of Roseanne, which sounds bad, but it's actually very enjoyable to go back and spend time with this show that I've kind of pushed off to the side.

And yeah, that is why that episode seemed like it had a lot more research than most do, because it was an accident. Yeah, for a week, Drew would every morning show up to get coffee and be like, OK, so we're going to do this episode of Roseanne. No, wait, we're doing this episode of Roseanne. All right, I finally found the episode of Roseanne we're doing. I'm a hard person to like. Hey, the original Roseanne is a classic,

and I'm thinking of doing a rewatch with my wife to show her this is who I am, where I came from. These are my roots. You know, there's a lot of people who like this most recent one. The last one we did, everyone was still in the period of Roseanne being a scary thing that no one wants to think about. And I think maybe it's been long enough that we can sort of go back to the original show and not have it completely spoiled by her. So this recent one went up and there's a lot of people who pointed out this is the only show on TV that showed me anything that looked like my life and how meaningful it was to see people that acted like my family sort of and not get that anywhere else. And to be able to like

admit to like enjoying this and having value in this now is nice for them, I think. Yeah, actually, this is not a Roseanne podcast. But when i watched that show as a kid i was like oh it's just like my life and my friend's life but then later in college i realized people had different growing up experiences and when i told new friends oh i loved roseanne growing up they were like that shows depressing so i guess what they were thinking is imagine being working class yeah you're worried after your mom loses her job. Why would you be? That'll never happen. Yeah. So not relatable to everybody, but it was to me. Glenn, also, you know, how how how goes things these days in the in the the world of television writing?

Oh, wow. The the writer's strike is very beneficial for people's getting their steps in a lot of tight writer asses these days. I probably eat better during the strike than normally I would treat myself to. Like I don't have like burritos and pizza for lunch every day. But that's that's even better. Yeah. And it's more enjoyable. But, you know, Hollywood is always very exciting. And, you know know fuck the man and the writers are sort of fighting for things that

everyone will be fighting for eventually if they're not already in that the money's all going to the top and not uh as we were told trickling down to the bottom uh so you know fighting for not just fair compensation but for a small sliver of the profits uh is it going to be something that's coming to every industry uh and of course you know the looming threat of ai which is really just a a plagiarism machine and not actual intelligence but this is not ai podcast unless it is i don't know i'm not on cameras i can't see if you're robots yeah well it is because this is a pro zaz love podcast and you're not actually talking to bob and Henry. They're in Cabo right now. Well, Glenn, I was curious,

have you gotten any, speaking of striking food, have you gotten a free donut from Jay Leno or any of the other free foods we see in the photos online? No, but I did get Little Caesars from the voice of Rocco. From Carlos Alsrocki? Yeah, yeah. That's awesome. Yeah, yeah. yeah yeah yeah that's pretty good so it was really great no one else wanted it this could be an old wives tale I'm hearing but have you tried to get a free meal at the Bob's Big Boy in Burbank I've not tried only because like I don't like driving to Burbank to pick it I don't want to spend extra time there

uh but I might because uh I want to drive to Walmart this week because the Lego sets for the Lego show I write for came out early in Walmart, and that's in Burbank. There's only one Walmart in LA, and it's in Burbank. Make an afternoon of it. That sounds great. And bleed Drew Carey dry just a little more. Yeah.

But you do have to eat at that Big Boy, and we have done that before. We have eaten there. Bob had a tuna melt. I had the classic Big Boy. Yeah yeah which was funny because it's like it's what the 50s defined as a big uh sandwich but or a big burger but not not today but well and i i bring that up as well because this pilot we're doing here look well is all about the those uh less visually interesting areas of LA, the actual working actor,

not just thinking actor, but working actor world of Los Angeles. And the Bob's Big Boy of Burbank is a part of that too, I'd say. Now I feel bad that I've never been. You should go. You might see David Lynch there. David Lynch is there sometimes, even today.

Well, what would I say? Even today? You can see the iconic heat filming locations and you're right those are like not pretty la but that is the version of la i'm most attracted to because it's the kind of stuff that you see in shows like the shows that look well is like riffing on where it's like we're filming in like van nuys today and when you're when you're just a kid watching you think it's fancy los angeles you don't realize that it's what it actually is actually look well does tie into the strike because the character himself could not live the lifestyle he has without residuals i'm assuming

and that is one of the things that writers are fighting to keep uh to maintain a lifestyle that is not just living job to job in a gig economy there you go when the uh the sag afra is about uh well perhaps might join you guys soon enough fingers crossed that's what fran drescher said i think she said a thing that wasn't as good before but yeah she sort of stepped uh stepped in it because she's like well the things we're fighting for aren't the things they're fighting for it's like no it's all it's all of a piece well you know if she does it again she'll be out on her fanny this this was a pick of mine because i thought is we're about to start season four of the simpsons that's the season where conan o'brien joins the show and uh it's where on the commentaries everything is about how much they loved working with conan o'brien and what a cool guy is now

they all love him and so i was like well before we get into that why why don't we look at the thing that he did right before basically he starts on The Simpsons I believe September October of 1991 and look well as a pilot is officially dead by the summer of 1991 so if this had succeeded and got in at least one season that he would not have been available to work on the simpsons and obviously then the simpsons would have been canceled because he was the only good writer on the show and it got way worse when he left the show he personally wrote every episode he drew most of them that's what i've heard and secretly wrote on like seven seasons of it too yeah yeah uh it's uh i think we covered the first one he's credited on that's brother can, Can You Spare Two Dimes? So he was there to help with like the post production of season three. But yeah, season four, full bore Conan season.

What is his first credited writing episode? Oh, it's New Kid on the Block. To talk more about Roseanne, it's the Sarah Gilbert episode. Oh, interesting. OK. What an interesting first episode for him to come in on, because I don't think that is the sort of thing that we'd necessarily associate with his style of humor, necessarily. But, yeah. Because it's grounded? It's great. I mean, I see it now that we talked about it, but I think everyone just thinks of monorail style episodes when you think of Conan on the Simpsons, right?

Well, we're going to repeat ourselves when we get to these episodes. Right, right, right, right. the simpsons right well we're gonna repeat ourselves when we get to these episodes right the the story of him pitching his stories uh his first episodes were he had monorail and he was told by gina reese that's too crazy brooks won't buy that you need something grounded and about the family and real stuff so then he pitches you know bart's first crush episode and then afterwards he pitches monorail and brooks is like that's the greatest and that it's one of those many like conan o'brien succeed success stories that make him sound cool but also i kind of hate him for all his success now i don't know it's especially because he invented podcasts i'm just so jealous we owe him our livelihoods yeah yeah so i i do realize conan

has been very successful and there's a lot from his career that other comedy writers could be envious of because he's just had like a very charmed existence. Is it weird if like on some level and I think it pertains to this as well. I kind of always think of him as like not a loser, but like sort of an underdog where like he's had he's had a great career. Like I'm not trying to denigrate that at all. But like there's aspects of his public persona and the way that a lot of his projects haven't necessarily taken off like this. I kind of feel like there's like a patina of loserness to him. Does that make sense? That's manufactured in a lot of ways, especially if you read stories of him

in the writer's room doing his pitches and having the affectation of like the nervous writer loser who's like spilling all over himself and stammering. That's a way he makes himself approachable despite his grandiose success. So you're saying it worked on me. Yeah, exactly. And as a comedy writer who cannot act or be personable,

that is something that I not not resent but absolutely resent like there is something that happened in the comedy writing world where they wanted more conan types they wanted people who could also perform who were also giant characters themselves and so especially after the 2007 writer's strike when writer's rooms got cut dramatically they wanted to fill them more with people who were writer actors uh or stand-up comedians or as the twitter got hotter and tiktok became a thing people who were as comfortable on camera as they were in a writer's room and to the weirder losers like me who just want to write and not be seen or heard you know so you're saying that conan is appropriating your lizard it's still on valor okay and as we're recording this on memorial day i'm gonna compare

myself to the dead troops that's completely fair we honor our fallen talk show hosts it's i mean it is conan's fault we have colin jost always on tv like that is he's he's cut from the same cloth he's a harvard dude then became a top writer on... That's the thing. It's crazy. Conan was right before the writers got to be real actors on the show in these parts, like on SNL. But yeah, I have a little history of Conan pre-SNL here and what took him to... Or co-creating Lookwell.

Basically, he is a 100% Irish- man uh born in brookline massachusetts to a very long family a very large family gifted student got into harvard in 1981 joined the lampoon uh one of the only harvard lampoon guys to be elected president twice you serve a year term and he got it twice uh and then the person who followed him on his second term i believe was lauren mcmullen the uh the great director of Simpsons and Mission Hill. And also Avatar The Last Airbender, too. And so while at Harvard in the Lampoon, he would be classmates with future Simpsons writers Algy and Mike Reese, Jeff Martin, John Vitti, Greg Daniels, and George Meyer. Greg Daniels, who also quietly has a massive media empire.

You don't think of him as that but it's like he he also has a lot of show I mean he's not like you know two and a half men create Chuck Lorre he's not like Chuck Lorre but he's I think if you add up all of his successes he might have outdone Matt Groening maybe I think so King of the Hill and The Office together those two together are bigger than Futurama plus Simpsons right say right don't forget disenchantment no and i look i it's good it's fine henry's gag reflex was a positive yes so really like amazon targeted me with like a disenchantment book i think it's comics but it's like all the stories that like you're not gonna get on the tv show i, I guess. And I was like, what is this? And I don't normally get targeted emails from Amazon, but they're like, here's something you might like.

This book that's coming out next month. And it's a collection of stories that apparently are not going to be on the TV show. And I was like, seems like they should save those for the TV show. I don't know what's going on there. You should have bought it for me. Well, Drew, I can I can explain this uh on our on our look well podcast but i'll take a second to explain this they planned a disenchantment comic series and i think that is when the bongo upheaval happens um when no more simpsons comics uh

and so mac greening started a new label to presumably publish those comics but that never happened i think because demand was simply too high for this enchantment comics they couldn't make enough so they held on to them until the show was between seasons for a year and decided to announce three trade paperbacks so there you have it okay that's interesting thank you for that and it's all original stories i'm sure the art is good as well yeah for sure i'm not denigrating the quality at all i was just you're saying you hate all comics and comics creators. No, I think it's great. I'm a big fan of comics. I just thought it was, number one, weird to get targeted for that. And then number two, just wondering what the long-term lifespan of Disenchantment is.

I was wondering, like, huh, I wonder why this would not be something that would just be absorbed into the TV show. Well, I'll tell you, the only time I've ever heard anyone talk about the show is asking us in the first week that it aired what we thought of it. And I've never seen any other discourse it's true yeah i i did see at the d23 simpsons panel i went to graining did say and we're working on more disenchantment he and that was uh about about five months ago so but anyway see us conan him and his harvard cronies they're having a good time the he's viewed as like the funniest guy and a strong performer in a group of just nerds

who like to write, you know, their little lampoon funnies. He'd also be remembered for even some fun pranks, including he pranked Burt Ward. Burt Ward came to the school to speak and he brought his Robin costume with him. For a few hours, Conan stole the costume and dressed up as the riddler to say that he was holding it hostage and and then returned it and of course because this was a harvard prank no one was arrested or went to jail for this it was just seen as like well this is fun but of course college ends for all of us and uh and conan post harvard moves to los angeles works for a little bit on the show not necessarily the news, as well as he

is trained in the groundlings, which is where he first met and briefly dated Lisa Kudrow. That's a lot of goofy, awkward, tall people in one relationship. It's really, you know, when he was finishing up his series on TBS, Kudrow came by and they reminisced about their first time, their acting time together they didn't talk about their dating it's funny i when i heard conan on wtf and mark maron was like oh and uh it like conan mentions lisa kudrow and maron goes like oh and you two dated right and then conan goes like uh right this is what you want right the dirt but but but they seem to be friends now but okay so then late 1987 he writes for a completely forgotten thing for fox called the wilton north report which was like one of their earliest

attempts at late night and he'd write on it with future simpsons writers nell scoville and greg daniels his old pal when that show gets canceled very quickly in late 1987 uh he is hired by the man conan himself calls a benevolent despot lauren michaels to join saturday night live in the second half of season 13 uh which is when he would meet robert smigel now we're so used to talking about harvard guys that when i looked up robert smigel's like oh he just graduated from nyu what what's this guy disgusting but uh but yeah so he's three years older than conan graduates nyu moves to chicago because he doesn't want to be a dentist he wants to be an improv guy and that's where you go for it back then by 1985 he has a troop that's so good it gets the interest of snl uh he is hired to saturday night live in the la Lauren's first season back, which sucked.

And he was one of the only guys kept in the big bloodletting of like, actually, you're not bad. Your sketches are good. Honestly, I view Smigel as kind of the savior of the show. He was the best writer in those rough pre-'90s early years of Lauren returning to it. And, of course of course michael's a big snl fanboy he's a fanboy made good because he that's why he is still so invested in propping up snl as an institution because he is a true believer though he's he also there's some cynicism in there too by late 1987 when conan joined the show they'd start writing a lot together too and and really start getting along and this is where a writer's strike comes in so they start writing together in late 87 by the spring of 88 that's when the 88

writer's strike begins snl is cut short so what are these guys gonna do they're gonna go to chicago together and write a sketch show together too called the happy happy good show uh with greg daniels and some jerk named robert odenkirk whoever that is some loser it's funny that with conan o'brien the the story the just the story that's passed around is like oh they got the simpsons writer from out of nowhere and they they put him on the talk show and it just worked it's like no he was a performer and i think people don't know about it because that stuff wasn't filmed and shown anywhere yeah yeah i think you've said on the podcast that no video of that performance seems to exist online to my knowledge no i can't

i can't find out you can find like one footage of like the troop that smigel was part of in chicago a couple years before but not that i did find uh the tribune the chicago tribune has their old review of happy happy good show and they think it kind of sucks they're like very funny this is weird these bears guys these it's the home of the bears like the the super fan sketch started there and it's funny to see a chicago reviewer back then it's just like and they make fun of the bears and predicting the year 2000 whatever is going to happen there but these things that we think of as the most famous recurring sketches of our youth is just tossed off as like who cares writer strike ends they go back to snl though odin kirk doesn't follow them because he really hated working on the show there's some great i hate working on snl stories in his memoir isn't there his interview story is

great uh even he's surprised he got hired because he told he told lauren michaels the show sucks now yeah and like yeah you're not as talented as you used to yeah it's it's a pretty funny story so conan he's working on it for a couple more seasons and he's starting to burn out though and this is mid-1990 and the networks as they often do are looking for pilots and surprisingly this is before lauren michaels started like producing half of the shows on nbc this is when he had only ep'd a few shows but him and brilstein gray the future home of mr show they decide that they're going to work with conan and smigel on a pitch for a tv series when you really care about someone you shouted from the from the mountaintops. So on behalf of Desjardins Insurance, I'm standing 20,000 feet above sea level to tell our clients that we really care about you. Home and auto insurance personalized to your needs.

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Eligibility requirements apply. See Shopify.com slash POS20 for details. So I credit a lot of this to the writer Dan Sneerson, who writes for Entertainment Weekly and did an interview with Smigel and Conan back in 2017 about how it was made. The idea started with Robert Smigel. He was like, I want Adam West to be the star of a Quentin Martin style 70s detective show, but it's now and he tries to solve crimes. Conan fell in love with that and they immediately start pitching the story together. And it's crazy to think of like the stuff they're making fun of in this.

It'd be like if, you know, you took the star of Burn and Otis and put him in a new comedy series. I guess it wasn't that old. Yeah. I think this is a funny pilot. I would find it much funnier if I grew up with these shows. But it's still funny even without that growing up in it. But I feel like there'd be more for me personally. Me too.

Me too. Yeah. I had to Google every name said in this episode. Except for George Kennedy. But that's because I was a naked gun kid. But also though when you watch this too. Even though Adam West adds so much to it. So many lines Lookwell says.

I'm like I can see conan o'brien pitching that line and saying it i can just fantasize about it in my head it's very very specific delivery but yeah so they pitched the show to brandon tartikoff who was the big nbc exec at the time he's famous as the guy who gave seinfeld some more chances instead of uh isn't this crazy to think about a show didn't do good in its first season and they gave it like time to like find an audience and that season was many episodes yeah yeah same with and he did the same for cheers too which uh obviously is not what they do now with any tv show like you basically the light light spoilers for the third season of barry

i love the joke in barry of how the streaming show that somebody creates on it is given literally like three hours one morning to succeed or not and then gets hidden by the algorithm and it does like well critically yeah yeah but uh but that's totally meaningless if the algorithm doesn't like it but this is before the algorithm like tartikov seinfeld cheers miami vice family ties cosby show saved by the bell uh he he has uh a lot of things he oversaw and sounded like one of the better execs of uh as far as network executives go it was really he's come up a lot recently for whatever reason in uh our podcast and with all the anger aimed at zaslav it's really interesting to

like imagine someone who's like the opposite of that where he seems to be embraced by the people who were working for him and they had really positive like relationships with him and like most people when he died when he's died very young um have like nothing but these great memories of him being awesome so yeah because he wants to make good tv as opposed to just churning out content right I think he was also the godfather of Punky Brewster, which is why her dog is named Brandon. Yes.

Oh, wow. I just know this. I don't know how. We did a Punky Brewster episode. That could be why. He, in fact, had the idea that he's the reason that show existed. He wanted to make a show about a plucky teenager, and then he named it after a woman he was in love

with way back in the day and then they had to go track her the real punky brewster and be like is it okay if we call the show after you and she's like it's fine um yeah uh and then conan and smigel in their interview had nothing but nice things to say about him too like oh he actually really respected us and didn't give us a ton of notes and he said when conan says when they pitched it to tartikoff he had the smartest thing they did not expect that he said like oh you know people have been trying to make a new get smart for like 20 years the and it just hasn't worked but i i think you guys are funny i'll give it a shot and this is post uh police squad which was i think a six episode series and then also

post sledgehammer which was a very police squad style show i don't think it was as successful when i was extremely unemployed i watched all of it because it's on dvd and it's very very corny it's a lesser police squad but there's kind of precedent set for this kind of a show but neither one was ever a success i didn't know sledgehammer was a comedy i just knew i assumed it was a straight like cop show or something now that's the trick that's well when they were writing the pilot for Look Well 2 they only had Adam West in mind that's all they

wanted but the network made them audition other people for it including Max Bear Jr. who was Jethro on Beverly Hillbillies and Chad Everett from Medical Center if that rings a bell for anybody uh but they eventually were like no no it's got to be adam west they got their way when they went after

working very hard on the pilot they then they wanted a director who basically directed shows like this in the 70s so they got it's not a fake name ew swack hammer is the real guy or swack hammer maybe i think it's Swackhammer. Okay, yeah. That's what you hit somebody with. There's two M's. I'm saying it's Swackhammer. What a name.

It's like Laszlo Panaflex. Yeah. They tell stories too, though, that, you know, television is more the writer's medium and the director's medium. And they basically tell these stories that like, actually here i'll quote smigel here we didn't realize was that some of these technician directors weren't used to having nerdy young writers hover over every line asking for take after take until the actor does it the way that they had it in their head they say like oh that guy was kind of older and i feel like we took years off his life by how uh controlling we were on the set is these like nervous guys under 30 ordering people around. He did, in fact, die shortly after.

Glenn, also, too, like you've developed some pilots in your day, at least like script rise, right? Oh, yeah. I mean, my most recent experience was trying to get an animated adult comedy onto Hulu and had some successful writers with a deal uh try and get it over there and had like a meeting with a a pretty like dude bro uh cis white guy who's like a gay time travel show well i don't know about that time travel's hard enough without it being gay and it's like okay this we'll see how this goes but uh and also some animated shows over at Netflix at one point had like six different pitches. And then the great Netflix animation purge happened. And all the execs on it were fired or moved to different departments or waiting six months to be told what kind of stuff they can make.

The problem with the algorithm method of making TV is that, and this is part of the writer's strike too, is that it's all based on these numbers that we are not given. So we know it's weird that for so long TV was sort of dictated by Nielsen, which is an imperfect science. And yet we have streaming, which you would think had perfect information about who is watching and for how long, but they don't like to give those numbers because they prefer to lie to both creators and their shareholders. All I know is that Red Notice is the most watched film that ever was in existence. More than Bird Box? Or The Gray Man?

Yeah. These are all real. The Gray Man? I want to correct myself. It's Swack Hamer, by the way. You're right. I added the M. I want it to be Swack Hamer. It sounds better. It's coolerackhammer, by the way. You're right. I added the M. I want it to be Swackhammer.

It sounds better. It's cooler. It is. But his full name is Egbert Wanderink Swackhammer Jr. Wow. Hence EW because no one's saying any of that. And yes, Drew, the Gray Man. Have you not seen the Gray Man?

I've not. But everyone's seen the Gray Man 10 times. The Russo Brothers, they're doing it again. It's like Avengers Endgame, but everyone's seen the gray man 10 times I the Russo Brothers they're doing it again it's like Avengers Endgame but it's on Netflix for them and Ryan Reynolds is in it yes I mean well the net clearly at Netflix the algorithm

says everyone loves Ryan Reynolds and wants to see him in every movie in the next 10 years he's going to ally with the computers we have to stop I mean he's gonna have to do it on Deadpool because he's not allowed to ad lib. And he's also a telecom executive, too. I always forget that. And he owns a football league as well.

And I say that in the European sense of football. So we should be scared is what you're saying. Oh, very much so. Well, also the Russo brothers, I was reading that Hollywood Reporter had a great article about how Amazon Prime's TV shows make make no sense the way they're spending money it's like at least 300 million dollars for this russo show that sounds very boring to me and they didn't even make they basically had to film season one twice because they messed it up and it's it's costing hundreds of millions of dollars well that lord of the Rings show cost like a billion dollars to make.

And the two writers behind it had never headed a TV show before. I mean, more power to them, I guess. I watched that first episode and it seemed fine, but I did not feel compelled to watch more. Well, everyone's talking about it. So money well spent. Yes. Yeah. So, well, OK, speaking of money, how much did this cost?

About two million dollars by their estimate they filmed it uh from late 1990 into 1991 but this is where the first of many problems for old lookwell shows up which is on new year's day of 1991 brandon tartikoff and his young daughter are in a bad car accident uh she has a rough injury that he's going to dedicate a lot of his time to helping her recover from. This is starting to lead to his exit of NBC. He'll start running Paramount, which then he'll greenlight the Wayne's World movie there. He's leaving NBC, and Warren Littlefield is taking over as the president of NBC. And as we all know about executives, no executive likes a project that they didn't start, especially not one by a couple of comedy nerds starring the old Batman. Like no, nobody, Warren Littlefield isn't going to like that show.

They finished their pilot, they turn it in and they're like, blah, this kind of, they're like basically little field not into it and they decide that it's going to be burned off and when conan heard that term that was the first time he heard it and he literally thought it meant they were going to destroy the film negative so no one could ever watch it well they do that now yes they at least gave it the dignity of putting it on tv then they air it on july 28th 1991, up against 60 Minutes with no promotion. And the East Coast airing of it is mixed incorrectly as to be unintelligible. I want to watch that version.

Which Smigel says was like, that was the most like, that was the darkest moment for him. He's like, well, maybe when this airs, it'll get enough positive buzz and they'll change their mind. And then he turns it on and he just hears like, the Dolby mix is all wrong. They fix it for the West Coast airing three hours later, but it finishes 92nd out of 92 shows that night. So, Henry, if you or I tried to watch this in our East Coast time zone, we would have been screwed. Yeah, we couldn't have even seen it. Yes. Yeah.

Seemingly, that would have been the end of the story of Look Well. Because basically back then, if it aired once, even if people taped it, where are they going to share it? Like tape trading is best you're going to see. Maybe you could go on an IRC. And it virtually got no reviews. Like Smigel tried to get a friend at, like, I think the Village Voice to review it, but that was pretty much it. And so it would just join the, like, literally, like, hundreds or thousands of pilots

that never go past anywhere. And that seemed to be the same fate for Lookwell. Compared to how things are delisted now, it's like least now with ample piracy if a show like willow goes away you can at least count on it being available the tomorrow if you uh sail the seas as they say drew you and i i think both have a list of uh of some of the shows they chose to pick over this uh for the fall 1991 season yeah i do i wanted to i wanted to see what they thought would be a better bet than this and there's one of them in particular that i think might have been a one-for-one situation where they had room in the schedule for one weird thing and they picked not this in favor

of another thing that ended up lasting for a season where do you want to start well i guess the the one you're talking about there i would bet is eerie indiana the like the only remembered one season thing that nb NBC actually put out that year. I did watch that. Yeah, I think a lot of us did because we were the exact market for this and they probably were looking at the schedule and being like,

what do you pair Look Well with? Because you can't really pair it with anything else on their schedule at the time. And at the very least, this Eerie Indiana show is going to have an appeal for the youths, the weird disaffected youths, which we all were.

And only lasted a season, but it's still remembered today. That's the only, just looking at how they arranged everything for that season on NBC, I can't imagine anywhere else it would have fit, except in the spot that they eventually gave to Eerie Indiana. And there's a show called The Torkelsons, which is like a family sitcom that I only wrote down because I was like, oh, it's a funny name. Oh, it's good. It's good. So that I only wrote down. It's like, oh, it's a funny name. Oh, it's good. It's good.

So that got a second season. They brought it back called Home Again or something. So they had the show and it didn't work. And then they sent the mom to marry someone new. And Brittany Murphy was actually on the second season of that show. She was like the stepsister who's like not from the country. And it was sort of like class conflict, like a economic status conflict. And that show was actually really good.

And people always ask us if they ever did a gay episode of the Torkels. And I'm like, I don't think they did, but people there's, there's, there's, there's a,

there's a fond memory for that one. And they had a different show with an old guy from the sixties, James Garner, Maverick himself. He was the star of man of the people, which was like him is like a local like a local political figure who takes it it was a sitcom as well it also didn't do very well and and of the list of shows i saw on wikipedia that were the first uh that debuted

that year the only one that actually got lasted a while and actually still exists now is Dateline NBC, the first season of Dateline NBC, the spouse murder show that debuted in fall of 91. So you become the pedophile hunting show, right? Yeah, it's both of those things. It can be both. There are many days a week it used to be on.

Maybe it still is. Now, to be fair, is it Warren Littlefield you said the guy's name was? Yeah, yeah, yeah. To be fair fair to him looking at this pilot in 1991 and looking at the viewership of television 1991 i can see why you wouldn't green like this because it is a single camera comedy which i think we as americans were not ready for until malcolm in the middle it would take another decade for us to be like okay comedies can look like this i also feel like it's way too subtle for mbc's very subtle yeah this this really could have been a fox show and i also think that if this was picked

up i really feel like they would have reshot this pilot because i feel like adam west is who he needs to be but i think the supporting cast is really weak compared to him um even though he is supposed to be the cartoon character in this realistic world but i feel like he needs stronger characters to play off of and i really feel like they would have done a different pilot if this went to series, especially that Jason guy. I'm sure he went on to do nothing. You know what? Yes, I know. You know, I know what he did.

That surprised me. I was like, I've heard this name. I've seen. Oh, my God. But I don't blame the executive in this case. He would have been the most forward thinking guy in the universe if he greenlit this, but it would get one season. Yeah, I mean, he canceled in like five episodes, I'm sure. It'd be on Wikipedia and episodes 7 to 13 would say, unaired, unaired, unaired, unaired.

For what it's worth, two of the other shows that they did greenlight for this season are The Powers That Be, which is a Norman Lear show that was co-created by the people who eventually went on to do Friends. And that got two seasons. And that's like Holland Taylor, David Hyde Pierce. It's a really biting political satire. Again, not going to work on any network in that year. But they also did Nurses, which was a spinoff to Empty Nest. And they're for part of the Golden Girls extended universe that lasted, I think, for at least three seasons, if not four seasons, and was a minor hit but now is completely unavailable online except for like the grodiest vhs transfer you could ever find on youtube i still say there's like an untapped market for just recreating that serenade

like lineup that people could just like tune into like some sort of like internet channel and have that that two hours of tv played for them with the commercials that aired that's a great idea let's do that uh but with the uh the pilot officially dead smigel he decided he's gonna go back to snl but conan by his own admission very burned out his dream pilot failed he had an engagement that ended and then uh he's he doesn't want to be in new york anymore he you know this pilot brought him to la he doesn't want to go back to new york city you know this pilot brought him to la he doesn't want to go back to new york city it's the summer in 1991 it's the kind of thing that opens up a man's schedule for a certain animated show uh but we'll get to that uh later it is a pilot for look well

but it also is a pilot for late night with conan o'brien because smigel is the first head writer of late night they talk about how like oh once we got to have our own late night show that nobody watches, we could do this kind of crazy shit all the time and nobody would cancel it because they did well enough. So that's really where the legacy of Lookwell continues. How did this pilot become kind of a cult, get a cult status? I charted it a little bit, and one of it is, in the intervening years at the Los Angeles Palace here, are you aware of the classic alt-comedy bellwether Uncabaret? I think I learned that from listening to your podcast.

It was not something that I'm familiar with. Is it still ongoing? No, I don't think. I bet Dana Gould will host one here and there but no it's it's not ongoing but but they would screen this at uh they would screen the pilot i believe taped off tv or smigel gave him a copy and they would screen it there and talk with with conan or smigel and so that's how it sort of started to get to be known if you're a cool old comedy nerd going to stuff like unkabaret, you'd hear about Look Well.

Well, here's the problem is we're not cool or old comedy. We're exceedingly old. We're also not 57 years old. Yes. And attending Uncabaret in 1992. I never went to Los Angeles when I was 14. But even if I did with my parents, I don't think I could even convince them to take me to Uncabaret at like 11 at night in Burbank uh and you should consider too that like like you said Bob nothing was like this back on TV back then including it because it didn't really air again

I guess Police Squad was the closest thing to this it was single camera no laugh track but it was also a massive failure until it became a movie later yeah and it and it is much more cartoonish like this is not a car this is one character is a cartoon and everybody else is basically a normal person right but many future comedy nerds would love it including jack black you can see jack black on multiple appearances on conan o'brien talk talk about how much he loves Lookwell. He becomes a Lookwell super fan when talking with Conan. It would lead him to star in his own Lookwell-style failed pilot, Heat Vision and Jack, written by Rob Schraub and Dan Harmon. I think it also aired in the same place that this later aired, if I'm correct.

I think you are right, yes. So dorks like me, I always wanted to watch it because you'd hear about it being this legendary pilot, but I couldn't track it down. If people who taped it off the West Coast airing in 1991 had uploaded it to Torrance or Kazaa back then, I wasn't finding it. If you out there were able to see it, then please let me know. But it wasn't until 2003 uh on the equally esoteric and forgotten cable channel trio which what are they up to these days uh i think they

got bought out like uh five years after this happened in 2003 uh but they created a programming block called brilliant but canceled for all the tv nerds out there it's where you would see the 1997 attempt at a fargo tv show or the 2003 attempt at an la confidential tv show in october of 2003 that's where they finally aired the look well pilot for that is the most widely seen version of it apparently some look well super fans say they had to replace some of the music in this probably for copyright reasons but i could not find specifically what music was or wasn't changed certainly some music in this uh probably for copyright reasons but i could not find specifically what music was or wasn't changed certainly some music in this sounds like library music they just played and yes uh you know they're doing great they've all conan and smigel they've gone on a massive success

adam west always loved being asked about it he would i've seen a few interviews where somebody goes like hey so enough batman look well what about that huh and well and also drew you guys have covered batman more than once on gayest episode ever right at least once i know that and 66 we just did the one where it's about that girl i think that girl's introduction yeah very very very campy yeah it's i was curious how much like well what do you think of of adam's camp of bona fides? Like he's he is a heterosexual man, but very, very campy. So I think he does it well and he does it about as well as like any straight guy, straight, handsome actor guy can. The interesting thing that I wanted to ask you guys is like, is this where Adam West, as we know him, was born, where he is basically commenting on his own stardom and like as a joke yeah i really think it starts here because he was after batman uh just like star trek it kind of ruined those actors

careers it's like we'll only see you as this you're a joke in every other role he'd go on to do a lot of schlock uh he's of course famously in zombie nightmare the mst3k horror movie and here he's at least comfortable enough with what happened to his life to send that up but i think that he still had a lot of dignity and pride and then later i mean he'd go on the simpsons and the joke was like oh he's an unhinged out of work actor but then when they had him on the critic they wanted him to make a lot of jokes about his bad career and he got offended if you remember the commentaries henry's like that's right i don't want to say these things because um like jay sherman's manager is like uh oh lauren

green is dead because they want to get lauren green for the show when adam west hears lauren green is dead he goes god i wish i had his agent that's a really good joke yeah i think that this is when adam west uh it happens i see it as similar to what has happened now that our generation is old enough to make things and be the ones who sell stuff that conan's generation grew up watching batman either originally in the 60s or they were 70s kids and they got to watch the endless reruns of it and that's when they get to hire adam west i do think conan brings it up in the ew interview a big turning point for them too too, was that when the 89 Batman movie came out, a revival theater near them was playing the Batman, well, I guess 67 movie, but the Batman movie that Adam West starred in. And when they played that, there was a reaction of like, oh, this guy's still got it.

This guy's great. And Adam West was there. And I think that's what inspired those guys. It's like now today you see like, here's a great example on OK KO Let's Be Heroes, which we all love, that they did an episode where they wanted the Rad character to have a different singing voice. And because they grew up with stuff like the donkey kong country show they're like let's get the guy who sang for donkey kong and donkey kong country the cartoon show they they

just hire the guy you get so you get to hire the the people you loved as a kid who hadn't been working lately and i i think the same thing with adam west here and that continues into the 90s and then by the time it's played out that's when Seth McFarlane's like oh he's a regular on the show we're gonna just have him be like in like seven episodes a year and then Seth gets Patrick Stewart to be a regular character on American Dad so it's yeah these guys

just hiring their heroes to be in their shows I don't blame them no I would do the same yeah I would absolutely do that I mean I think a good example it's sort of comparable is Saved by the Bell, the new class, whereas taking a genre that we watched in our youth and both hiring the old actors, but allowing them to sort of comment on the sort of material they were given in their youth and also giving them work as adult actors that we love and want to respect.

Right, yeah, except for Screech. Except for Screech. Well, he made that an easy out. tell actors that we love and want and want to respect right yeah except for screech except for screech well he made that an easy out yeah and it's worth considering again that batman 66 in 1991 was 25 years old which think about what is 25 years old now and yeah and that's how old i would death i would rather i would rather not think about what's 25 years old even though that is the basis of our podcast. That's very depressing. One other thing about Adam West and worshipfulness of it. Like in October 2016, right before everything stopped being real in America, I got to go to a cover of the New York City Comic Con for Outlet This Sucks.

But this was the best thing that I got to do it, which was interview Adam West for like five minutes. And I could not have been like I thought I was done with being a big fan boy for stuff like this. But I was like, you're Adam West. You are television history. You are like the best Batman is not Kevin Conroy to me. And I love you so much. But I didn't want to even I my biggest regret though is I didn't mention Lookwell because I bet he'd have thought I what mattered to me is that he thought I was cool and that if I brought up Lookwell he'd know I knew more stuff than just Batman tricking an interview subject into thinking

you're cool is the entire reason to go into journalism I agree and yeah that would have been awesome I'm sure he would have appreciated getting to talk about something that's not Batman for five seconds yeah but he was he was very very very nice. And he's one of those guys we thought would be around forever. But he lived a very long life, but he didn't make it to 90. And he was still doing interviews. I think there was even another dead guy. He was on the Gilbert Gottfried podcast the year he died, giving a retrospective about his life.

God, I got to listen to that again. I think I did listen to it when it was new, but I got to listen to that again. I think I did listen to it when it was new, but I got to listen to that one again. I got into Batman 66 when the reruns were airing on FX, when FX was a brand new network. They aired from like four to five, they would air the two episodes that go together, weeknights.

And I was wondering, I guess it's a given that that's something they would have eventually put on at that point. But I was wondering if, and I tried to find if there was any truth to this if like the cult popularity of look well had something to do with fx being like young and hip and like funky and sort of backwards facing um that might have been a motivation for them to put old batman on from like the very start of their network and i couldn't figure out if there was anything to that or not i i do wonder because like the people who

would have been programming this would have been young, cool, interested in what like the, like Gen Xers are basically into and it would have been something like this. And I do wonder if Lookwell is responsible for me having the experience with Batman 66 that I had. Yeah, it feels kind of like how MTV

would show Speed Racer in like 1993. The popular entertainment of the 60s became subversive in the 90s. Well, and the kids who grew up watching it as gen xers now like how we say you know those nickelodeon shows were actually kind of fucked up like that's the same deal they they had the cyclical nature of growing up is going actually batman show i've said it before when i watched batman 66 as a kid in reruns in the 80s i thought this is real real and Batman is in danger every... I took the stakes as very high.

I did not think it was funny until a few years of watching the show. I took it as very realistic for Batman and Robin. No, I was the same. And there was one time where I'd watch it after school because they were two-part episodes. So usually that first part would end with Batman in serious danger and you'd only see him get out of danger the next episode and the following day my friend's mother was late getting us from preschool and by the time i got home i missed batman so i was like well i guess he died i only i mean i i saw it as a kid i wasn't really into it but then i saw it again recently uh it was

speaking of like kitsch and things from the 60s i was watching it in a tiki bar and it was just so distracting like this show has so much sexual energy that i was not aware of as a kid it's just uh it's it's filthy i what i forget if it was burt ward or frank gorshin did a tell-all of saying like that that everybody was doing everybody else on the set or the orgies on set, which I believe Adam West did not support those stories. Frank Gorshin had orgies offset. He was professional.

The first episode I saw of Batman 66 has Ethel Merman as, I think, a two-off villain named Lolo Lasagna. And I was probably like 13, 14 when I saw this. And I remember being like, I don't know what gay is, but this is definitely something. And I feel, I don't want to see people. I don't want people to see me watching

because I feel embarrassed about Lolo Lasagna. Now the, the campness of it again, totally over my head for a while as a kid. Well, I mean, I was reading so many colorful comics anyway that I, I probably was like, well, yeah, this is just colorful. When you hit somebody, a sound effect comes out. This this isn't funny this is what happens in comic books but okay but that's the so that's the story of look well that led up to Conan getting to the Simpsons why don't we take

a quick break when we come back we're gonna go through look well the TV pilot The Simpsons will be right back. Get ready for Las Vegas style action at BetMGM, the king of online casinos. Enjoy casino games at your fingertips with the same Vegas strip excitement MGM is famous for when you play classics like MGM Grand Millions or popular games like Blackjack, Baccarat, and Roulette. With our ever-growing library of digital slot games, a large selection of online table games, and signature BetMGM service,

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Saturday at 11.30 on SyFy. To get Trio, call 877-GET-TRIO or visit gettrio.com. Welcome to the break, everybody, and we hope that you're acting like the thinking actor. And we really appreciate our guests this week for this slight side trip in Simpsons history. Thanks so much to Drew Mackey and Glenn Lakin of the podcast Gayest Episode Ever. They do such great work in their own sitcom history research and discussion. Everybody should be checking out Gayest Episode Ever and all of the great bonus materials they do on the GEE Patreon that they have as well. Please follow both of those guys on Twitter too. All the links are in

the description for this episode. Thanks so much again guys for coming on to talk about look well if you enjoy the talking simpsons podcast even when it goes into deeper simpsons history like look well you should know that this podcast is only possible thanks to the support of patrons at patreon.com slash talking simpsons if you were to sign up for five bucks a month to help me and bob do this as our full-time job you can get not only the satisfaction of knowing that but you'd also get a ton of bonus content including every month a new episode of talking futurama and talk king of the hill where we cover both those series one episode at a time each month we are in season four and three respectively futurama and king of the hill and you'd also get access to a ton of episodes about Mission Hill, The Critic,

and Batman the Animated Series. Over 150 of them and tons, tons more if you signed up at the $5 level at patreon.com slash talking simpsons. But if you want something even better than a firm pop, then you should head on over to the premium level at patreon.com slash talking simpson because then you get all the five dollar things i just mentioned and then our monthly what a cartoon movie podcast where we talk about an animated feature film just

as in depth as we do a pilot like look well which often means talking for over six hours about an animated feature film like toy story 4 which we just covered last month as the start of our summer of Pixar. And at the end of this month we're heading into the superhero world. As we cover 2004's The Incredibles. And there's going to be tons more cool stuff there. And we've been doing the What a Cartoon movie podcast premium episodes for almost five years now. We have a huge back catalog. Dozens and dozens of episodes you've

not heard otherwise unless covering so many films not just pixar movies like those but also popular anime films like kiki's delivery service at the end of evangelion 90s kids classic like akira or a goofy movie and even some live action stuff like little shop of horrors and our longest episode ever six and a half hours talking about who framed roger rabbit if you want to learn more check it all out for yourself at patreon.com slash talking simpsons all right so we are back from break with the opening to look well which is uh a lot of just random scenes of adam west but i gotta give him credit they actually filmed original stuff for this opening instead of just using clips from the pilot him uh defiantly ripping the police tape in front of him really sums up the show yes

yeah the the makeup of the show is this is a great great great 1990 snl sketch expanded to 22 minutes instead of the usual like five to seven minutes while watching this i was thinking of another show that was on around the same time and that's get a life it feels like a softer version of that because both shows featured main characters that are living in a world of delusion but are unflappable endlessly positive and that's fun to watch man imagine if this ran as long as get a life and like how get a life when you watch the fullness of the series and you you know compare the pilot to like the last episodes of it like the pilot is incredibly grounded so what if this was the grounded pilot of look well and then it gets

really crazy by the start of season two now i know a lot of shows change a lot from their pilots even when the pilots are very good like futurama now i wanted to ask you guys this i feel like this is a very challenging show to write and i wonder what they would have done after this first episode because every time look well encounters a situation he's told no and to go away and it feels like he constantly has to find new situations even within the scope of one episode and the joke is his ruse never lasts long but how do you build a season of episodes around that where he also has to unwittingly solve a crime it feels like such a challenge to write beyond this one singular adventure i actually think that your comparison to get a life would have provided some clues how to make this show work i think something that

is working against look well is that it's kind of very grounded except for look well like there's hijinks but it looks real so our ability to suspend disbelief of him getting into these situations all the time would be strained and i think him being the silliest character in a otherwise realistic world does work against us as being like okay i guess he has stumbled into another crime ring again uh but like yeah for this pilot it works well but how long would it have no this is why glenn's better at answering because my problem with this pilot which i enjoyed was like how could this work as a series because in addition to like he solves stuff accidentally also the deductions he makes are routinely for the wrong thing.

And that's a nice three repeating pattern in the pilot. But would that be what the entire show would be? Or would they have to evolve his detection skills in some way? I don't know how to make that work. I brought up the Futurama pilot because that pilot sets up a show that seems to be a very fruitful show based off the premise. It's like their delivery team. But then by the end of season two, we have B saying what are we a bus they forget that they're delivery

people because there wasn't there was less life in that idea than they had thoughts and that the audience thought with with regards to this they they said they joked around over the years of saying like oh we were glad we didn't go to a series because we could never think of what more to do with it after the first episode but in the 2017 interview they were a little more hopeful and one of the big ones they said was if this became a real show what they would have done is hire a professional mystery writer to help them at least like have a central mystery to every episode that then they build jokes around which because they admit that like the mystery in this one isn't the best, like, mystery. No.

And the challenge is he has to be wrong and also right. Yeah, it's hard. Which sounds harder than just writing a mystery, yeah. The alternative is, if you take the Futurama example, that, like, this is an entertaining character. He is in his own world. He doesn't know how to relate to everyone around him. You can send him to, like, the grocery store, and he can be a weirdo at the grocery store and

there doesn't necessarily have to be a real mystery. Like watching this person be weird is enough. So I don't really care about the mystery in this. I just want to watch Adam West be like a strange weirdo, you know? I mean, I think if it had just gone to series, it would have been more and more about the class and his relationship with his students and they would have leaned on whatever whatever story or hijinks or romance or comedy or whatever they can get out of that class. I mean, Drew and I talked about this just crossing paths yesterday about how much the show reminded us of Barry.

Yeah. And Barry's a show just ended, but over each season it became sort of less and less what the first season was about. What the pilot was. Yeah. They didn't move away from it. When you know Bill Hader

must have watched Look Well a bunch of times. He had to. He's friends with Conan. He's a comedy nerd. He's a Hollywood nerd. It would be impossible for him to have not seen Look Well.

My personal theory is that Look Well lived on in Barry which is like a straighter version of it but like has so much DNA in common with Barry. But that may just me speaking of someone who just said goodbye to a show i cared about a lot last night and don't want i i'm sad that we won't have more barry now i i'm sad to see it go too i thought it was a great finale i've seen some people going like i don't think season four is that good but no they're wrong they are wrong we have our opening for

look well and then it's time for a joke that they start off strong with a joke that back then i guess is just a star trek joke but every show is happy days the next generation now like every tv show is i mean we uh to make a direct comparison we have the return of that 70s show that 90s show yeah exactly and exactly. They don't have a Buzz McCool yet on that show, to my knowledge. They renamed Kelso Buzz McCool. Actually, they need to replace Hyde, so Buzz McCool showed up. Yeah, Buzz McCool was always their friend. There never was a Hyde.

He's gone. The fact that they are talking about happy days in the opening scene of this pilot, is this another reason that makes me think about Barry again? Because Henry Winkler is the Adam west of that show for sure yeah yeah and he also survived that you know playing that one character uh for much longer than adam must play batman so it must have been an even bigger challenge to overcome in a much more popular show too yeah yeah uh and and fonzie is just as like an iconic look as batman honestly batman at least he has a mask on in that but you we all see when i see adam west i always think batman mask or no but yes this is

where we first meet ty lookwell at a typical very boring uh hollywood audition yes i learned a long time ago that a casting director only has so much time to make a choice. The thinking actor must use every edge to make that choice a foregone conclusion. Well, I guess I blew it, huh? Perhaps, but you never fail when you learn from your mistakes. You know, I recognize you. Aren't you Ty Lookwell? Yes. But until this audition's over, I prefer to be addressed as Buzz McCool. Well, it's nice to meet you. You know, I remember Banachek. That was a great show.

No, I wasn't Banachek. That was George Pappard. I was Banigan. Branigan? No, that was Hugh O'Brien. I was Banigan. Oh, right, right. You had the Black Secretary.

No, that was Banix. I had a sheepdog. Right. Sorry, people. It looks like we have everyone we need. But thanks for coming down. We appreciate it. That's just great they're

lost my friend so as far as i know branigan uh is made up for the joke just because there were so many of these detective shows with the one character name yeah they you hear about banachek and manix uh which is the that is gail fisher who was his secretary and she's tv history because she was the second african-american woman after nichelle nichols of star trek to show prominently on weekly television so a a bigger deal than we remember mannix for but yeah these shows never re were in reruns when i was a kid at least nowhere i could see them like these i know colombo is part of that same group of mid-70s shows and it also stars like an aging actor from movies who then goes to slum it on television other than that like i never saw banachek i never saw man i knew manix for mystery science theater references like

there'd be a music sting and they go like manix or whatever manix was on the crappy tv station that would just air whatever they get their hands on. And they eventually swapped it out for Matlock, if that makes any sense. But Banachek is something I only know because of The Simpsons from the Treehouse of Horror 3 when Bart raises the dead with the magic spell. That is the only reference I have for Banachek

outside of this episode that we're talking about right now. And these guys, George Pappard, he was on the A-team, or the A-team had just been taken off the air around this time. Oh, wow, it lasted that long. And he was also first famous for Breakfast at Tiffany's.

He was in that. Well, I will say Columbo is the best of these. I'm an aging white man. I'm going through my first Columbo phase. And it's better because Peter Falk did not want to commit to a series, so it was just a bunch of movies that he did whenever he was available. So because of that, they spent more time on them.

And the writing is much better. I just finished my Columbo phase. So I feel you. Oh, wow. That's quite a journey. Yeah, yeah. It was a time. I needed it.

I was trying to think of another equivalent of it today. And I think that definitely it's a bigger show in popularity. Well, actually, probably its ratings are not a half of what Columbo's were 50 years ago. But the Yellowstone series, which stars Kevin Costner, like it is also an aging film actor, though he's older than George Pappard was in the late 60s. I see it as similar to Kevin Costner, who also is referenced in this episode. Well, one final thing. Unlike Mannix and Banachek and Banigan is Adam West's character name. Yeah.

They were making Columbo movies until 2003. Well, there you go. Yeah, that has real staying power. I love every detail you hear about Banigan is like, oh, this sucks. Like it was a sheepdog. You didn't even have like the- Which is ripping off Columbo's Basset Hound. And it was only three seasons.

Yeah, that's so great. Like he's just short of being like, just short of being syndicated. I also love the way the guys reply to him like, right. And of course, Happy Days The Next Generation would not cast a 60 year old man in the lead,

but he shows up dressed as dressed as fonzie and thinks his edge is the thinking actor is to show up in costume which is uh that's that's not how you get an audition guys one quick question about the list of tv shows he mentions branigan is the one he says that hugh o'brien was on that's fake right that is fake okay okay and uh yeah hugh o'brien is like uh he did he did star in projects like that one. But yeah, there there is a 1975 movie called Branigan starring John Wayne, which seems to be cut from the same cloth as these shows that also like F is for Family has their own look well in it, too. The the the racist cop guy in it. The cop show they're always watching.

You know, to Reed Harrison. Yeah. Reed Harrison is the lead actor. This is the name of the actor yeah yeah uh but this sets up perfectly who he is he's he's out of his luck on acting he's way in way over his head he's not going to get this role but also he takes the slop he does extremely seriously and he's unflappable and he has to be like he's the leader of the room like these actors who i'm sure did better in the audition than him he is taking the professorial role of like well guys you leader of the room like these actors who i'm sure did better in the audition than him he is taking the professorial role of like well guys you probably like the way the guy says like

i probably blew it didn't i like so uh lookwell's already gotten in his head to think like you did a much worse job than me i was definitely gonna be my job he's slightly pompous in a non uh intentional way it's just who he is as an actor, I think. Yeah, he has to be that way. Otherwise, he can't continue to exist. He lives in deep denial. That's his real superpower, other than his free time. I also love when he drives away. He says, remember, the thinking actor.

And then he just drives off. He's not saying the thinking actor does this or some other insight. He's just like, the thinking actor. Just remember that guy. it's all about branding he doesn't wear the wig to the car he puts it on the dummy head that he brought to hold his wig though now too i i think that did you want it to go to a fourth season is kind of what they're talking about he could have said the exact same thing about batman like why i'm sure he was asked a million times why wasn't batman given a fourth season it also only aired for three i like his again more denial where he

says well i thought the character had said all he had to say the network agreed yeah i mean too do you think if they pitch this you know just five years later they just be like no why are we making up the character tie look well it's adam west this is adam west fictionalized version like this is before kirby enthusiasm and all that but it made it would make more sense to just cut out this artifice and just be like it's fictionalized adam west who does everything that he does in this trying to solve mysteries that was actually something i wanted to bring up at the end of the episode why didn't they just make it about adam west it would have been a lot more like people everyone knows who adam west is and uh that would have been more of a viewer draw i would imagine i think they felt they needed the kind of uh like uh uh removal i guess or the distance yeah i think

honestly too complex for uh viewers of this era where you like early aughts we have kirby enthusiasm and then also the colbert report where it's like well it's steven colbert but he's also playing a character called steven colbert and they're different people. I think our brains had not evolved. Our TV watching brains at that point. Yeah, I think Ty Lookwell just needs to get much sadder than maybe Adam West is comfortable admitting that his life could get. Like Ty Lookwell, like we'll see in the next scene, like we'll eat popsicles on the couch watching himself. I don't think Adam West wants to say do the same thing watching Batman.

I guess that's fair lookwell drives away with a small amount of respect for him because you see him driving this cool sports car and then he instantly drops it off to a lot to take away from you any respect you had for him like he just rented that and he's trying to get out of paying for it too he tries to not pay 50 and then he won't even accept half price he's like let i'll give you 20 and let's just call it a day and then i think he never pays at all he uses then he uses seeing the cops to be like i better check it out he never pays that guy i think he did skip out on the bill here yes but but this is when lookwell learns about a crime and forces himself into it. And this is another higher level joke about this that I love. Every person he meets does not view Lookwell as being anybody to take serious.

But the camera and the blocking of all these scenes do view him like he is centered in it. He is the star. You're watching the TV show that's maybe in his brain from the view angles uh he has i i notice a lot of jokes with the filmmaking especially when he's talking to a statue and we get uh reverse shots of the statue listening yes later later in this uh but this is when lookwell learns about a crime what was the license number mr alberti i don't have it it's only written on the keychain what seems seems to be the problem, officers? We're handling it, sir. Could you please step back?

I don't think you understand. I used to play a detective. Oh, yeah. He was Bennigan. No, that was George Kennedy. I was Bennigan. Could we get back to this, please? We'll do what we can, sir, but this is the fifth lot to have a classic car stolen this week. Sounds to me like a string of classic car thefts. You boys better check it out. Shakespeare reminds us how off the sight of means to do ill deeds

makes ill deeds done. What, did you get lost? Very well. I'll leave it to you gentlemen for now. That is for you, sir. Wouldn't hurt to be more careful about the kind of scum you rent your cars out to he says as he leaves from renting a car there another without paying another very telling scene about the who the character is you might be thinking as a new viewer oh he's kind of doofy but maybe he has like a preternatural ability to solve crimes but no

when they tell him it's the fifth stolen car in a row he's like oh you've got a string of classic car thefts on your hands what he's just giving a synonym for what the man just told him another reason why the humor on this was probably too understated for the average sitcom viewer yeah that look well has to be useless like he adds nothing to any any of these investigations and only gets in the way alberti is very funny i like him as the he's my favorite straight man of all the straight man see uh interacts with it no i like jason more but alberti's close and he's played by bart braverman the several of these people when i looked up their careers i was like oh this is a look well style career of this person which basically when you go there imdb they have like 800 credits of being like a one-line character

in this or that but this guy still with us seemingly he was a child actor on i love lucy that's how long he's been around yeah and his full name is bartley. Bartley Braverman. So it's funny. This is full of like Lookwell style guys. Like this is really a tribute to the working actors of Hollywood who when you see him you go like you like had a line in Seinfeld didn't you? Which is also the African-American cop in this scene is Riff Hutton who the second I i was like oh right he was uh he was on steinfeld right and he's a car salesman in that like that fake backdoor pilot episode that's all set at uh putty's car dealership where it's the one where george buys a twix i just remember that one as the wrath of con joke okay yes yeah and then the other cop is from and the other cop is from lost oh well here's the shows i was i was so glued on riff hutton i wasn't even looking up the other cop is from and the other cop is from lost oh well here's the shows i was i was so glued on riff hutton i wasn't even looking up the other cop in the scene he plays dr arst who is like the

complainer guy who gets himself blowed up with dynamite he he's that that that is who he's also been in a million things but like i that is the one thing i could see something like i definitely remember this character and of course ben again is also a fake show uh but george kennedy did star on shows like this including including one called Sarge. And that's why he was in Police Squad, because he was sending up his old rules at the same time as he was starring in Breath Assure ads. Right. No, it was Breath Assure. The thing that didn't work. Like, hey, I looks pretty smelly. I don't know that I would trust George Kennedy to have good breath.

It's such a weird linkage for a company to hire someone for, you know? I know. Talk about a man who you immediately picture what his diet is and what his breath must smell like. Yeah. Hey, if you want to see George Kennedy kind of as a hunk, check out Cool Hand Luke. He's a beefcake in that movie. I do want to see that. Thank you, heterosexual Bob for recommending this to me.

I'm suggesting to all the gays that are on this podcast, know what you like you like george kennedy if you like men eating eggs i have a movie for you oh many an egg is eaten also another like too subtle for people of 1991 joke he only knows one shakespeare quote this is the one he says again later when speaking to shakespeare he is not actually a student of the bar and he just knows this one quote yeah like i think it's too subtle because later in the show he says to shakespeare like what a nice day or as you would say and then he gives that quote which has nothing to do with the weather yes it's the one shakespeare quote he knows that also feels like a very like conan sketch writing scene of just or or smigel too this also feels a little like smigel is famous as one the best

writers of for adam sandler movies and this definitely feels like where an adam sandler crazy character says something to a normal person and the normal person says would you get out of here like shut up happy gilmore that's why robert smigel is also a very rich man i would bet if i were to guess who's richer i'd still probably say it's conan but uh you know smigel might be is uh might be equal i don't know on camera on camera talent they'll usually outrich you i don't know smigel seems pretty poor i've seen the quality of his puppets. And so, yes, he drives off in his regular crappy car. When he heads home, this is when we get the only scene with his... It's funny.

We heard about the black secretary and here's his like... Almost like she's the one character that doesn't feel like a regular person. She seems also like a sitcom character in the show. Hyacinth his uh his maid my guess is but this wasn't an ew piece but my guess is that this scene is like notes from the like you guys need more recurring characters so add a scene of him at home uh with his maid and then on top of that you also get to see the idea of a young guy who would be a regular on the show that they haven't really cast yet. A hunky young guy.

Yes. But this is where there is an amazing moment of her saying that they don't have the hairspray you were looking for. And he replies, those fools. It is a perfect line. I wish there was more to Hyacinthth but she doesn't have a lot of screen time she's billed rather high in the credits as if she was going to be like the supporting character on this show if it was going to go forward but yeah she really is there for like about like 30 seconds and uh it's also i think it's a great addition that he has this instantly

successful nephew who's getting callbacks from everything from all the biggest people uh in hollywood and when you hear at the end that he had to cancel that happy days audition then that means that lookwell stole his audition and showed up for it like he didn't even get the job oh i did not even put that together until right now that is extra pathetic that is that is amazing that is oh that was too subtle for me i i read it as like uh there's a call about spielberg and the agent's like you got to cancel that happy days audition i know big big loss right yeah i read it it's like it's just worthless to him yeah i read it as the nephew didn't even want the thing that he tried

out for really hard i don't think okay well you you maybe you're both right i don't know but this is uh this is where he eats his uh firm pops which are made to tighten the skin of old aging actors i love all his little like his tapping of his neck yeah good good stuff and uh i really wanted more sign gags in this but there's just this this little sign gag here and i feel like again if they were to make this a series it would be a lot more heightened yeah as it stands this sort of stands out as the episode plays out this sort of stands out from the rest in that it feels be a lot more heightened. Yeah, as it stands, this sort of stands out. As the episode plays out, this sort of stands out from the rest in that it feels like a very Conan-y style joke, but the prop design and everything feel like they are slightly out of the world of Lookwell.

Does that make sense? I mean, this made me want a Popsicle is what it did. And one of my 25-calorie outshine bars with real fruit. Henry, I know those are 65 calories oh i get the i get the smaller ones oh they have smaller ones they do have little yeah but they don't have the fruit chunks in it okay i'm an outshine fan i like the chunks chunk me up they're good they're good chunks but uh though i i would bet what they actually are using there is a jello pop i would guess uh if this is 1991 that will lead to the scene over the credits of him just enjoying a popsicle.

It's so great. How many times? I hope he didn't have to eat too many popsicles. He's 63. He shouldn't be eating too many popsicles. Because he's 63, he should have as many popsicles as he wants, Henry. A T's in the T. He's earned it.

You know who today is as old as Adam West is in this episode here? J-Lo. George Clooney and Eddie Murphy. Those guys are just as old as Adam West is in this episode here? J-Lo. George Clooney and Eddie Murphy. Those guys are just as old as Adam West is now. Going back to the Popsicle, when my grandma reached a certain age, she was, you know, on the way out, let's say. I love my grandmother.

My mom was telling me on the phone one day, she only wants to eat cookies and candy anymore. And I thought, you know what? You go for it. Yeah. This is what you live to the age of 84 if you're that old and like the like you might as well take up smoking because you can probably be beat to death you know death would come before the cancer yeah yeah just just enjoy your all the vices that you didn't have when you were younger it's prime popsicle time

when you're 60 plus i i look forward to the retirement full of popsicles for me too but you can have a nancy pelosi style freezer with just popsicles in it you know another thought i had based on this system uh what we've cover on this podcast network is when he opens up his closet full of old tapes and pulls it off the shelf i was thinking of the gray ghost on batman the animated series. Oh, that's a, that's a really good connection. So that episode is written by Tom Ruger. Who's definitely a Hollywood insider. I'm not saying he would have seen this,

but he was more likely to have seen look well when that episode was written in mid 19, I think early 92 or maybe late 91. So it, cause it aired in early, late 92. So I, cause it aired in late 92. So I, I think it is quite possible he would have seen this and,

and come up with the idea, except that, you know, his, his great ghost character has a lot more self-respect. Yeah. That episode is about underlining the tragedy of this kind of a character. See now the inclusion of the nephew in the scene made me think of another

failed pilot, Gloria Vane, which is, Drew's giving me a look, because she had the niece come to town. She's like an aging actress. I believe the niece was going to probably steal it just is the sort of thing that would like shove the knife into someone who is sad about their waiting career. Yeah. And waiting life. And waiting life. Both of them. Yeah.

Sorry. Here's two more celebs who are as old as Adam West was. Barack Obama is today as old as Adam West and Jennifer Coolidge. Oh, that's surprising about Jennifer Coolidge because I guess we've been aware of her for a shorter amount of time because like mainstream discovered what a jewel she was like fairly recently. I don't know about that. As it was like Eddie Murphy. She was a MILF 20 years ago. Eddie Murphy has been popular since I was born.

So like we've not known like a reality without Eddie Murphy being a very famous person. And Jennifer Coolidge had until American Pie. And then even then we didn't do anything really great with her until kind of recently. So, but yeah, good for her for being for being look well aged. We're calling it that now. And so, yes, we get to see what Banigan was like back in the day, which it's funny just to see Adam West running around in a crappy wig, pretending that it was filmed 20 years ago and he looks like Adam West now though he looks great he those firm pops are really doing their job then goes to an acting

class and I will say this is some of my favorite stuff in it because I in San Francisco I took two semesters of an improv class and this does feel reminiscent to me of of being in classes like this and how there's people in the class who are like the the suck up in the class there's the guy in the class who's like actually maybe i should teach now and then there's and then there's the guy in the class who's like what like come on like and it's and of course the the the cutest girl in the class who gets hit on by the male teacher all the all the all the things that, uh, that happen in, uh, in an,

in an acting class. My only experience with these sorts of classes are this episode. And again, Barry, uh, but there are like three of them walking distance from where we live that we could start taking classes at tomorrow if we wanted to. Which ones? They're all next to MoMed.

Got it. Um, yeah, there's, there's like a theater place, a block, like a few blocks from here. And they have

black box theaters and like acting schools that people go to and apparently get something out of it's really weird when i went to grad school for screenwriting they tried to make us take uh acting classes and it was just an anxiety factory because it was all it wasn't real it wasn't acting it was just like the exercises that go into acting so i think is it the meisner i don't know the one where you have to like do like a physical activity while saying your lines from what you're supposed to have memorized. And the teacher would not tell us

like what activities qualify. It was all of us guessing and being wrong. And the only activity he actually liked was someone balancing a broom on their hand. So you're like how much how much zip zap zopping was there not enough per hour in that class okay not for what we're paying but of course the point of lookwell's class is to make people watch his show with him like that's all his his i would guess every week is him just making

them watch the tv show and i love that they write an intentionally dated scene of him talking to Leron the pimp and arresting him, who apparently was funneling money through a disco. And just him saying like, that's right, Leron, which is like, that is exactly the type of huggy bear type name that would have been used for a stereotypical pimp in, I mean, those shows back then also totally were about in the dirty Harry era of, Hey, this is a white cop. Who's finally cleaning up the streets and we need an older white guy to do it. I mean, the best part of this class and showing that video is him done immediately

like transitioning to being able to use the lesson from Branigan to perform a scene from King Lear as though the two were, or Banigan being higher than King Lear. Yeah, and then pausing the exercise to say, now, are they doing what I did in my Banigan episode? The dichotomy, are they displaying that? They get three lines out, too, and he instantly stops them. And yes, we joked about it before,

but this is the first time where we see the standout of the class, who is the one guy who does not believe in Look well todd field who's very famous now as a filmmaker he's the director of in the bedroom and tar we're big tar heads and he's he's also the piano player in eyes wide shut so this is a guy who has worked with stanleyrick and also Aqua Teen Hunger Force because he's the voice of Old Drippy. Oh, he's Old Drippy. Wow. You know, I like this character more than the other supporting cast because he is kind of the superintendent Chalmers of the show

in that he does not accept the reality he's stuck in and is just confused and upset by people playing along with Lookwell. All the cuts to him of just like, what? And then also you get to see Lookwell is like messing with his head every time he talks to him because he knows Jason's going to call bullshit on him. So he goes like, nice of you to catch up with us, Jason. Like he's just insulting him the whole time. Even though he's pointing out that like the writing on the detective show was not clear enough for him to understand what was the pimp doing.

The pimp was funneling money through the disco. And he's just commenting on the writing was not good enough for him to understand that implicitly. Also, I learned that apparently Todd Field, as a child, he helped invent Big League Chew. Hmm. Wow. big league chew wow so the big league chew is as you may know is like it's bubble gum that's all shredded up so that it can be a replacement for chewing tobacco it was apparently him and some other uh him is a bat boy and some other guy in in the world of baseball took the idea to wrigley and wrigley bought it from him and that guy got money but uh Todd Field child Todd Field

didn't get any of the money from it well now he's got tar money you know I bought that as a kid not knowing what tobacco was or looked like it's just like oh fun gum shreddings right it was fun it's fun until like you keep adding to the gob of gum you have in your mouth and then you just have like a giant like sock of like purple in your cheek. And you're like, this is not fun anymore. I can't, I can't chew through it.

It was kind of like gum string cheese. Like, yeah. Innovation. See, I knew too well what, uh, chewing tobacco was.

Cause my dad loved it. He, he had a cup to spit into all, all the time. It was wonderful. Tripping over all those cuspidors. Oh God. I, I, I mean, a cup to spit into all all the time it was wonderful tripping over all those cuspidors oh god i i i mean i can still smell his pack right now in my head like i i can i can imagine the scent of it did anyone ever accidentally drink the cup fortunately no but i think there

was one maybe once or twice where somebody maybe me knocked it over or yes it's it's it is about as gross as tobacco gets did he go god damn it no if it could sound like the angry texan if if he did i've buried it deep with other memories but but but so yes one thing they wanted to do in this class that they almost pulled off was that they wanted to have famous people in it they wanted to have like revolving characters who'd appear in the acting class over time and they thought it'd be a fun place to put like uh famous cameos they said they almost got marla maples uh in in the acting class but yes wow but yes they then go through the acting exercise and this is when it is instantly derailed by look well having basically a psychotic vision they even admit in the in the interview they're like you know he's actually like a sociopath what happens here he also becomes batman yeah

oh my good master for the away his noble. Tis noble Kent. All right, stop right there. Which one of these two actors was conveying the dichotomy we saw in my Bannigan episode? I thought Alex had a good sense of his who. Worthy observation, Ben. Well, sir, I was attempting to summon my life experience and transport it to the Earl of Kent situation. Wait a minute. What did you say? I was just talking, sir, about my technique.

No, no. Transport. Those stolen cars are being transported to another country. Mr. Lookwell? Sorry. I used to play detective mind can't help but make deductions it's a great musical choice i like how it is creepy music uh that is sort of giving the the effect of a man having an episode but the brassiness of the cop show is kind of invading yeah that as well it's very fun sound design and that it's the word transport like this see if he thinks he's in the batman show and in

the batman show he would say all this and then people would be impressed of like wow you really figured it out batman like he'd some of the funniest writing in batman was when he would hear like one word he'd be like him deconstructing a riddler riddle with just like ah corn and by corn it means this and then he'd just make like five jumps to the the revelation and then robin would be very impressed with it but in the real world the guys say like transport and everybody is just disturbed they're like are you okay yeah i think with is it with this one or the next one where jason asked are you okay mr look well that's in the next one yeah also it's very batman that he's like a little visit to my friends at the police station give them credit for not even trying to

imitate the you know transition hey we saw that in a teen angel and we covered it right holy shit you're right man what simpsons is to us is Batman to these guys like to all of these writers like it's it's the same deal except Simpsons is intentionally funny and Batman was just rendered funny by passing time uh yeah I mean got well guys like John Beatty they eventually like oh no he's the funniest thing ever well also where now I think about it this is another great reason to do this one now season 14 is also on the Simpsons where Adam West plays himself as Batman in like an old episode of Batman that Krusty was on oh you're right about that yeah so even even better table setting for our next season synergy one more

one more thing in the scene of Ben the suck up guy who always wants to like demonstrate how he knows how to do stuff he is a gay guy and a writer who does really good stuff he does i did see i didn't know he was gay i i saw he had like 30 rock and larry sanders and family guy and and the freaking comeback i love that show like like like a very singularly gay like comedy writing career where like i think it's informed a lot of the stuff he's worked on in an interesting way the comeback is quite a gay show gays love the comeback i feel like gays don't always understand the comeback like it is like there's a lot of people who use memes and like uh gifts from the comeback and sometimes i'm like did you understand that that show was like a deeply sad show but uh yeah whatever the comeback

is also a look well style show like she's the look well on the show like but but it's filmed like a reality show so that's uh you basically end up with a reality show that's like on it but and also stew the bus driver from uh pete and pete is the her husband on the show i love him and uh what we have next is one of uh maybe two or three comedy cuts where he goes i think i have an idea cut someone's saying no no no go away yes it's the i love i i think i have a clip here but i just love how the guy goes like you're and you're a what and you were on what and you're a what but but yes uh he's only one cop knows who look well is right now i'm gonna pay a little visit

to my friends at the police station. Your name is what? Lookwell. Ty Lookwell. And you're a what? I'm an honorary member of the force. This was given to me in 1972. Presented to Ty Lookwell, TV's Branigan. Banigan.

Hugh O'Brien was Branigan. Who's Hugh O'Brien? Exactly. Honorary Crime Stopper, 1972. I don't know, Mr. Lookwell. That was presented to me at a formal ceremony in Television City. Sergeant, when they post the watch schedule, I want... Detective Kennery. Oh, I look well. Don't worry, Detective. I was just getting rid of a stack. No. No, Sergeant. He's with me. Detective Kennery was the technical advisor on my show perhaps if you watched a little more television you'd be better at your job yeah that's true of us yep yeah that's

how we get good honestly when seeing him show clips of a band again in class i was like how much removed is that for me playing clips of simpsons episodes to explain them to like people live show he's doing a talking band again live show yes actually that's exactly what the freaking office ladies do so they they are living the look well life it's true quite well making a shitload of money they are much better off than look well jenna fisher doing very well with that podcast and i'm sure with all of her officers residuals but her husband just directed um guardians galaxy 3 and got signed over to dc her ex-husband james gunn and currently she's in my facebook feed advertising a robot cat box

so what is success it's what i'm saying i forget i forgot they were married yep james gunn jenna fisher were married but hey i've seen how much it costs to go to her podcast live show. It's about 10 times more than what we charge. Wait, how much? I gotta know. Yeah, how much? Well, it was a Just for Laughs comedy ticket. So it was, I think, over $200, I want to say.

That's wild. Okay. And these could have been Canadian dollars, too. She's very nice. They're both very nice people. But yeah, it's very hard to not feel a twinge of jealousy thinking about how much success they're getting from like reveling in their own work, basically. The badge in Lucite, hilarious joke that he can't, he doesn't have an actual badge. He just has to pull and he constantly, he does it a couple more times, just pulling out a badge kept in Lucite.

Like, see, I'm a police officer. Honorary Crime Stopper. Seemingly has the show's name spelled incorrectly on it. Oh, yes, yeah. And also that the Conan says that he pulled this from real life because he had a grandfather who was a cop and he had a badge in Lucite. So believe it or not, an Irish police officer. They make those? Yeah. I really love Ron Fra frazier's uh detective kennery i though i think they could cast like a more famous dude

for it but i think he does fine but he's like the one enabler and pittier of him like that he clearly he from working with look well he knows look well is a danger to himself so he lets his fantasies go a little bit but tries to calm him down like i think we talked about this time i think the hidden darkness is this guy thinks if i don't humor look well he's going to kill himself and i don't want that on my hands yes uh this is when kennery tries to talk him down and he's still you know trying to be like detective with all due respect i did three episodes on this kind of thing look will those cars are imports they'd fetch a higher price here than anywhere else yeah we're fairly certain these thieves are altering these cars quickly and then storing them somewhere to be resold later.

Imported cars? Well, perhaps if the police were to share these nuggets of information with their honorary Crimestoppers, we could work together more efficiently. The commissioner wants to see you. I'm over here right there. He knows who you're with, and he says he'd like you to join him in reality. We'll talk later, Ty. All right? Very well, then.

I'll be out of your way. Remember this, gentlemen. I have a lot of free time. Even when he is proven wrong, he still can't admit he's wrong he's he's like oh well it's because the cops failed to tell him what the imports are this felt like another great misdirect the cop comes back into the room and he says sir i just talked to the commissioner and if you think this is a show where lookwell's going to be built up more that the commissioner be like and he wants to talk to you and look well but instead he goes like and he knows who you're with and he says he wants you

to visit him back in reality and just like the commissioner is telling him like i'm gonna fire you if you keep talking to look well like i've told you stop talking people are getting in trouble for talking to him that line to me felt like the most like the closest to what contemporary like half-hour comedies were doing with their writing. Like that felt like a sitcom line to me. It had like the right timing and the right structure to it. Just to say he knows who you're with and he'd like you to join him in reality. It did.

Like I like like it's the joke is leading you down one path and then it takes you in the other way. And that way it reminded me of more like a Futurama line. They're like tricking you. Do you think you know where it's going to go and then they surprise you with the opposite of that and so lookwell leaves but he reminds them i have a lot of free time it's very boastful we then head over to what appears to be muso and franks uh or a wannabe muso and franks uh when i last visited los angeles i uh me and my husband hung out with during len for an afternoon well we ate at one of these like old hollywood eateries didn't we

we did it was covid times which was eat outside and get burned by the sun and i still feel bad about that because like we missed on all the old funky like hollywood decor inside and then had to sit in the sun next to uh the street but thank you for thank you for tolerating that with us it was very nice i mean hey when we walked through it when we walked through it we got to see all those posters when you got to use the bathroom it's like wow it was a hot day I will admit

on this wall though it's all TV detectives did you notice that right Columbo's on the other side of his shoulder there must be others too oh that's great well it's I mean he very intentionally has sat next to his photo right uh like this must be his table and i i love how he's holding court over the people too like and and that even jason is trying to tell a or look low makes a weird

statement and everybody else is just like yeah yeah and he's he's just making a face like what why are you do you guys not hear what he's saying but I just love how he says the police are baffled but they're too proud to ask for my help I also like how he says let's just say he says that multiple times in this like let's just say and in this case he says he's gonna do a little undercover acting you seem to know your style why of course my father was a car painter as was his father and his father before all right this here's manny he'll say any cars before you paint them nice to meet you manny hey don't break the bumper man oh all right it's all the rage in minnesota look we got to get going here fellas

we only charge 60 bucks to paint these things, so we like to move men and mom pretty quick. I'll bet you do. Okay, guys, get to it. Oh, Phil, if there's anything else you'd care for me to do, just let me know. Huh? What do you mean? Oh, you know, any special jobs that need extra attention?

Is he gay? It don't matter as long as he does a good job. Just give me the signal, I'll deliver. Look, man, we're not into that stuff. That's not what I heard. Wink. It's too bad this is a podcast and we can't see the licking of the lips i think any other show in 91 would have called attention to his insane costumes because anytime

he has to go undercover he goes seemingly to a costume shop and gets a very antiquated version of what he wants to dress as right to be this mechanic or this car guy, let's call him, he's dressed like a Texaco employee from 1954. He's got a little bow tie, a sparkling white jumpsuit. And then we'll see two more antiquated costumes later. It's a very silly idea that, again, I think is too subtle for 1991. I like my favorite part about this costume is that is it entirely impractical for someone who's handling paint? Because you're just going to spill paint on yourself the entire time. Yeah, it's really good.

And he gives away the undercover bit immediately when he starts spraying the bumper with paint yes but then he is not worried at all it's like oh that's what they do in minnesota yeah all the rage in minnesota is something no one ever says and yes it's funny for the for the gay joke in this episode that he's oddly progressive or not unexpectedly progressive for a 1991 car mechanic guy he's just like it doesn't matter as long as he does a good job it's like but but but eventually look well by implying that to them that he's heard they do have sex with men that's when it's too far for them they have to beat him up i think it's really funny they didn't have to

they chose to it's a really it's a really funny it's the best cut of the episode yeah yeah how'd you get beat up Mr. Lookwell immediately the next scene the working class mind is strange and unpredictable but you

find you find out he is pretending this is all part of the plan because he says when he was unconscious he right he rifled through their files or when when he thought so these two men beat him up until he seemingly was knocked out and then they walked away from him rub it through their files and also yeah that he says that he he says that basically he assumes there's i couldn't find proof of any wrongdoing which is like well what files are you even talking about which would show but it's his way of convincing himself he didn't mess up like that and manny is played by sal lopez who's uh most famous for being in full

metal jacket so another kubrick alum and also he's been in eight million other tv shows if you look up his imdb and john capadice i it's he has an italian name it's hard to say but he is a memorable character actor who had an amazing mid 90s he is in independence day the first ace ventura and speed in quick succession is he the bus driver who blows up in speed i think so i only remember him of the characters i remember i think he's like a taxi driver in independence day but in in ace ventura he's i i believe ace uh does butthole humor to him in the police station he's one of the cops just had it up to here with ace ventura yeah i'm pointing to my neck uh he's got a very like working class character actor vibe cop uh taxi cab driver detective any any of these for sure he's got a very like working class character actor vibe cop uh taxi cab driver detective any

any of these for sure he's got a bullock body he does this is jason tries to tell look well this is when he tries to bring it back to reality he's like so it wasn't connected to the car it wasn't connected to the crime he's like glad to see you catch up to the rest of us jason like he's jason's trying to tell him he's wrong he's like no no you're wrong jason free you're actually stupid for not catching on to this yet this is when his like self-delusion is almost like a peggy hill level thing that it's almost like a peggy response to someone who's trying to correct and like they're so into their own thing that they assume the other person has not fully understood the situation yes yeah it actually is very peggy hill and so this is when look well he's slightly a creep though he's by creepy acting teacher standards he's not that creepy uh with with the beguiling miss royster here played by

deborah richter is her name her her biggest credit is the uh she's in the 1989 Jean-Claude Van Damme cyborg. And some of her most recent credits are acting in very unfunny conservative YouTube comedy videos. Oh, that's too bad. That have about 10 views on them. Oh, no. That's not it. It used to be nine until you investigated. They're exploding.

And now people are going to, I'm not saying the name of it. You got to dig a little deeper for this, folks. I feel like he is not being a creep. I think his own image in his head that is like, I'm not saying the name of it. You got to dig a little deeper for this, folks. But I feel like he is not being a creep. I think his own image in his head that is like, I'm a ladies man. And he just wants to evoke that. But he's not following through. Yeah, he's not making her do a scene where she kisses him or something. And the extension of it is that he refers to her as being very beautiful. But there's another woman in the class who is not as beautiful as Miss Royster is.

And she gets nothing. And she's just shit out of luck although i think there is a uh double entendre with uh your head of gobbler is quite beautiful oh yes yeah that's true head of gobbler makes it sound like uh a blowjob joke right yeah to me yes yeah i and not the henrik ipsen play that i read in high school oh i definitely uh had to google that one i did not know i said you're you're more you know better than me bob you should be teaching the class instead i'm a real gobbler head gobbler head and then ben keeps wanting to show off technique in the class but this is when lookwell has another idea before i play the clip i want to say the character alex is the one who is very supportive

of him in this clip he basically becomes robin like he knows like to be the best suck up in class he becomes robin he's like you're right sir and he like supports him with it and and then the actor is brian bradley who's most famous for being the butler in the fake seinfeld pilot that they do when seinfeld gets a pilot oh so Seinfeld guys are in this. Not surprised. But yes, Lookwell gets another idea. Faster. Sir?

Fast. Race. There's an auto race in town, isn't there? That's right, sir. The L.A. Grand Prix is here Sunday. Car thieves. Outrunning the police. High speeds. Expert drivers attracted to Grand Prix.

Mr. Luckwell, are you all right? Jason, how do you feel about portraying a pit crew mechanic? What do you mean, Mr. Luckwell? Let's just say that you and I are going to do a little Grand Prix auto racing. No, you can't come in. You are not in the race. Tell him I'm Dash Carlisle, world-renowned auto racer. He's Dash Carlisle.

No, you're not. You're not on the list, and there is no such person. Now, I am tired of talking to you. Get out of here. It was a good effort, Jason. You just need a little work on your physicalization well what do we do now mr look well not to worry every good undercover man has a plan b hey security

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And he's like, it's supposed to be the setup for, oh, they're going to see the racetrack. And you are locked out of the racetrack. And the character's like, no, no, you're not getting any fun here. I think it's also great because the running comment of him going, let's just say I'm going to do this. And then he just literally does the thing. I don't know why he was being coy. He's not being euphemistic about anything. He does what he says he's going to do.

Sorry, Drew and Glenn. Oh, I was going to say, this is probably as close as he gets to Homer Simpson moment of being like, I got a plan B. And it's just like off the cuff, running, physicality. Making a run for the fence in plain sight of everyone and immediately getting thrown in jail. Yeah. being like, I got a plan B. And it's just like off the cuff, running, physicality. Making a run for the fence in plain sight of everyone and immediately getting thrown in jail. Yeah. That is a season four Homerism for sure. Just going like, you got to catch me first and run off.

Though also when he says, tell him I'm Dash Carlisle. That's when I thought, this is Roger from American Dad. Like that he even has a name for his persona yeah he thought he thought it out I don't like how the guy's response is like no you're not you are you are not that you are absolutely not that no I guess previously he was Buzz McCool and now he's Dash Carlisle he also tells Jason it's his fault but like Jason Jason is the one doing the talking for him and he's like I'm sorry he's like well you need to work on your physicalization more like obviously my plan was

perfect you Jason you just couldn't hack it but maybe next time Lookwell easily gets arrested for trying to break into the place we're seeing him uh in jail with two large men who are throwing Jason around but it turns out that's all just an acting exercise that Lookwell was impressed upon the guys which you guys living in Los Angeles know is one of your greatest powers in Hollywood convincing somebody they're a good actor or could star in things oh have I

ever done that have I ever used that in my I probably should try that shouldn't I that would probably work in a lot of convenient situations no I wasn't aware of that no it's much easier in LA to pretend you're an artist and say do you want to pose for me not that i have or would yeah but maybe i think you can do this but trick people into doing trust falls don't catch them and then take their jobs when he says they have a forest tucker quality that's another person i had to google i again i need to watch more f troop obviously that i since i have

to look him up we just did a ghostbusters episode and so we had to talk about like the weird history of like the other ghostbusters and force tucker was in the live action ghostbusters which necessitated the real ghostbusters being the name of the cartoon and yeah it was very weird to have this come up in twice in a short amount of time and this is when kennery shows up again to prevent lookwell from being arrested and lookwell is not uh also at a very homer quality when he's bailed out he is not thankful at all he is instead angry that a person even helped him and this is another like classic lookwellism right here ty i've talked to the track officials they've agreed not to press charges if you promise not to bother them again. Sorry, Detective. I was merely about to capture our elusive car thief in disguise as the Grand Prix competitor.

Oh, well, actually, during the race, two more cars were stolen. So we were just wasting our time? You never waste time, Jason. Time wastes you. Anyway, I hope you realize now that this kind of thing, it just isn't worth your trouble. Detective, maybe Bob Conrad didn't take his honorary badge seriously, but I do. anyway i hope you realize now that this kind of thing it just isn't worth your trouble detective maybe bob conrad didn't take his honorary badge seriously but i do he always tries to roll every failure into uh seeming to be intentional but i love how when jason questions this he has no

response so he just makes up an aphorism on the spot that makes no sense and jason just kind of just like is baffled like what the what does that mean and kenry won't correct him because he's like anyway because he knows there'll just be a whole other ordeal if he corrects look well on this nonsense he just said and bob conrad most famous for the wild wild west the original wild wild west not the uh will smith remake from the 90s one of our previous guests pointed out that he has a perfect butt and he does and if you google a robert conrad butt you can find the article this person i'm gonna do that now our guest wrote uh a different henry a different

henry who was a guest on our show um wrote a piece all about robert conrad's perfect butt and it is in fact a perfect butt look at this i well i'll save it for after the show but so then we cut to adam west having a chat with shakespeare has to be partially a reference to batman shakespeare bust with the secret button for the bat pulls in it right i just think about that i mean yeah this i mean i i think the show is getting viewers used to how crazy he is but this is when it really this man needs help because it's it's sort of like the idea and we saw in the simpsons like you go to the monument to get inspiration maybe you're not talking out loud but just like i find so much inspiration from this figure but then it's like he's having a conversation with him he's going over the details

of the case with a statue and like i said earlier we get reverse shots of the statue listening to him. And he's just lost in thought for this entire. I mean, they have to put time cuts in it because he's talking to him so long in this. And obviously this is a fake statue. I'm pretty sure they built for the scene because this statue obviously does not look like one that could actually survive outdoor weather. Right. So, yeah. obviously does not look like one that could actually survive outdoor weather right so yeah and my googling did not show there's a real uh statue of shakespeare anywhere in the los angeles area though maybe i missed it in my searches i don't know i think i think this is a studio lot subbing in for a public park but i couldn't figure out which one it was i tried to figure

out where they filmed this but i couldn't but but what does look well learn from shakespeare still when all is lost it's comforting to know that I can come to this place, think of your words, and sort out the puzzle. That is why we know the cars aren't leaving the country, yet none have been spotted on the road. Of course, Detective Kenry says the cars are being hidden. But how do you hide such unusual cars without attracting attention? Unless... Of course, the cars aren't being stolen at all.

Owners stealing owned cars, collecting insurance. Alberti's car rental. He didn't even know his license number. Follow Alberti. I love the way he just, if you'll excuse me. I love the way he just runs away and jumps over a shrub. That feels very Conan. I can just imagine Conan O'Brien doing that. We then cut to something Hollywood still loves to... Well, actually, now the thing in Hollywood is to harass the unhoused fully and not even pretend to have a banquet in their honor.

It's mainly... I i mean that's what uh after quibi it was the main job that jeffrey katzenberg gave himself was harassing the unhoused and making it more illegal to uh be in a public space with your with your property we head to this uh which is being run this banquet that is being run by alberti royster is uh playing eloise p vanderhaven she is totally in on it you know what she is actually having the most fun of any of the uh the of his class room characters with him at this place and despite lookwell being a method actor i mean that's what he says he uh all he does is walk around telling people traits of what his character would be like. Yes, yes. The sidewalk is my pillow. Hello, hello.

Nice to be inside. And he's basically an Emmett Kelly style like clown, a vagabond. Well, he's a hobo. He's got a bindle and everything, right? Yes, yeah. He's a full hobo. You know, this generation, Conan O'Brien, George Meyer, they all love hobos and bindles. They love it.

This is when a vagabond questions him good evening i have a home hello nice to be indoors hi there sidewalk is my pillow i just feel we have to remember these are real people with real life good evening quite a little fundraiser isn't it it? Yes. Yes, it is. Well, Mr. Alberti, pity about your stolen car. Yes? I don't suppose you'll ever see it again, or will you? What are you talking about?

Pay no attention. I'm just a crazy old vagabond. Now, if you'll excuse me. Who was that? How'd he go? Too well, I'm afraid. Alberti tried to play dumb, but he's no actor. Oh, wow.

Jason's waiting outside. We've got no time to lose. Excuse me, homeless coming through. Pardon me, eat out of a trash can i that is another like really good like sitcom writing line of these are real people with real lives and then in walks look well dressed as this ridiculous idiot uh and yes his the way he is trying to get the information out of him though also you know what when he says but he's no actor he reminded me of another look well type thing which i love uh which is the movie galaxy

quest i i love that movie it's where the basically the star it it's what if the star trek cast had to pretend to actually be the star trek cast and the big move at the end of the movie that tim allen's character plays is that he can tell that somebody is bluffing because and he says like oh you know it doesn't take doesn't take a good actor to recognize a bad one you're bluffing and that's the same kind of way Lookwell is saying when he's like oh but he's no he tried to play dumb but he's no actor it's like no you didn't get anything well he gave you nothing alberti's just confused and like righteously exasperated that this person's now shown up twice and has just been like baffling as to why he's like interacting with them the way he is and also he's crashing

the party dressed as a cartoonish version of a homeless man like seemingly mocking the very thing he's doing like it's god it's so and i love how royster says to him when he says like but he's no actor she's like oh wow like she's so impressed like yeah uh so he didn't cut outside jason is i think actually working as a valet and not undercover it's just his day job and then it's also great he's like don't be alarmed it's me ty lookwell i know he knows who he is uh and so yes in the real world they do something that would get them both arrested and killed uh they break into a car and this also is such a like smigel conan kind of thing he announces what his plan is that he's

going to hide in the back of the car for a few hours and see where it takes him and that while he's explaining it they are spotted and found out immediately and he's like alberti shouts at them and look well it's like okay new play get in the car right now we're stealing this car we are going to we are stealing a car right now in front of the police like with witnesses we are we are big we are big fans of miss royster's line in this part with her opening it why do i have to be in the car? Was my favorite line of the episode. Not explained.

She just has to. Like, yeah, she just sat down in it and went with them. Like, yeah, I mean, Jason is definitely going to jail. I like to imagine that Jason did go to jail after this. Do you have info on the scene that is not in the YouTube version? No, no. Okay, because I read IMDb trivia that they had to cut out

a little bit to air this on Trio, which is the version that we see on YouTube, which I assume is the one you watched, Henry. There is a scene, there's an epilogue scene in which we find out that Jason and the woman were both arrested and are in prison. And the two Samoan men in the prison

are now in the class. Wow. I like that. That's great. Holy crap. That was an A version I saw. But Trio cut that. So unless you have the recording of the West Coast feed that aired on this day,

you're never going to see that scene. Oh, that's awesome. Yeah. Well, thank you, Bob. I missed that one. But as they're driving away, they're even being shot at. And even then, Lookwell, first he says, oh, it must be his friends following us. And then they're like, no, it's the police.

He's like, drive faster. And then as they're being shot, we're being shot at. He's like, I've got it. I'm not a car thief. I'm an actor. Follow me. He thinks the police are following him uh you know with peaceful intent when they arrive at the dealership uh this is when look well again cannot be shaken in his uh rightness here and

and it turns out he accidentally saves the day sting operation the museum lot was targeted as a prime strike zone and his car was bait. Prime strike zone? Look, we don't have time to go into this. Hey, you! This guy just crashed through my gate. How come the alarm didn't go off? Oh, it must be a malfunction, sir. I'll check on it in the morning. It's a brand-new system.

What are you doing here after hours? Alarm system? Well, I was just... Me? Yeah. I was just doing inventory. Wait a minute. Did he know we were staking out the museum tonight? Sure.

I told him. There's your man. Take him in. I bet these were all inside jobs. That's good work. Well, detective, I guess our little ride led you right to the criminal himself. I'm just glad my unique blend of talents could play a role detective he was accusing the owner

please just let it go it's not worth it gentlemen it's been a pleasure working with you if you need me again here's my headshot i love every bit of this that his denial almost shakes when he's repeating the words back he's like he's starting to doubt himself he's like could I actually be wrong like uh but though also I like when they arrive he's like I'll accept your apology in advance for arresting me gentlemen I also uh we're just pointing out things we like but that's fine. I like when the perp is running away, clearly guilty, and he goes, well, there's your man. Yes. Obviously. He thinks he's directing the cops to arrest him when they are arresting him imminently.

They've already decided. And when Alberti is thanked and he shakes his hand, like he is ignoring, Kennery is ignoring Lookwell. He's like, hey, that's a good job. And then Lookwell's like, yeah, that's a good job. And then Lookwell's like, yeah, that's right. I did do a good job. Like he's taking all the credit and they just have to go like,

look, just let him have this. That's why this seems so hard to write. It's very clever in this episode. But again, you have to write a mystery and then have to write a man solving it by having the completely wrong idea. But still arriving at the conclusion that a regular mystery episode would arrive at. It would be tough to repeat. man solving it by having the completely wrong idea but still arriving at the conclusion that

a regular mystery episode would uh arrive at it would be tough to repeat yeah not getting viewers bored on that idea of like watching him be wrong week to week every week and then accidentally being right that seems that seems that seems like a tough draw so this is another thing from the entertainment weekly thing though they said one of the only notes they took from an exec the execs big notes was the executives did want look well to win in the end or to get a win. They didn't originally in what their conception of the pilot is. Lookwell is wrong until the very end and has nothing at all to do with it. But they gave him the smallest win in that he does lead the cops to find the guys like through his completely wrong actions so i they you know

they were told like they they wanted him to get a win in the episode that was a big note from the executives and they and they took it i mean i will say that the the episode ends on like the strongest line note for this concept of being like if you need my help again here's my headshot like that sums up what the show is immediately so too bad it didn't work though and also he says like how he says my unique blend of talents could play a role like that that's a very commercial line and then of course the characters say like what we didn't do anything and uh and then over the credits we get to see him eating a fruit pop again so if you wonder what else they would have done in the ew piece they actually did say other ideas they thought of about the time that they're like oh we could do episodes like this

some of them were they would have an old rival actor from a competing series that was up against his competing with him to try to solve crimes and annoy the police or him recruiting an old sidekick who is a Herve Villachez type, they said. And also him going on a celebrity cruise and solving a mystery there. Those are just some of the ideas they had had there been an actual season of Look Well. I like all of those. I do like all of those. I think it would have worked. Yeah.

Henry, you talking about the, you know, you didn't do anything response to like him like his unique blend of talents now it's making me think of that line from marge versus the monorail with where he says he takes credit for doing something that he didn't do and marge actually points out you didn't do anything he's like didn't i and then he teleports away yeah yeah actually yes that nimoy in that episode is also look actually the way he says the cosmic ballet rolls on the first next is that can anybody want to change seats like they nobody cares about his stuff hey look we'll never air you can recycle the character yeah yeah and hey they're there they both were very famous in 1966 Spock and Adam West absolutely yeah but But yeah, I think this holds up pretty well.

But we've seen a million things that follow in its footsteps. And we've seen Conan O'Brien level up his style so much from here. And same with Spiegel. And really figure out the way to make this crazy character work. It needs to be Adam Sandler, whose natural lovability or likability like uh does and charisma overwhelms uh the idea and it works better with a man child than a 63 year old out of work actor i think yeah theoretically at least commercially commercially yeah yeah for this uh i mean as much as i said at the beginning and the end i don't see you know more material being mined from this character because it just

seems so difficult and limited. I would like to have seen more of this like a season because I feel like the universe would have been heightened alongside of him. And it would have been a much funnier show. It just feels too subtle, especially for the audience. And even today, I wanted more sign gags. And Lookwell is the only zany character. We talk about Get a Life. It starts in the exact same way, like you said, Henry.

Chris Peterson is the insane person. But by the end end of the show there's just so many different insane characters surrounding him and it makes the show even better because he's not the funny one you're waiting to speak i feel like if they had maybe picked a crime that was hollywood adjacent it might have carved out a stronger identity for the show like if if it was like weird crimes, it only could maybe happen in LA and LA adjacent areas. Then maybe even if he wasn't great itself in the crimes, it would have felt like a place for him, a home for him. That makes sense. I feel like the risk with that is always making it seem like too much of an

inside joke. And we love that stuff, but doesn't play outside of people that care about the show business sure but you already have a retired actor or not retired in his mind that's true or maybe this would have followed a bojack horseman style idea of starting with this out of work actor who then it's it's just a a journey through uh self-hate and depression instead accurate description yeah that's what that turned out to be but uh well are you guys i guess my last question to drew and glenn are you are you happy now that you have explored look well

and have added it to your television history are you happy that you've watched a little more tv as look well as instructed us all to do i'm always happy to watch more tv yeah i've never really turned down the opportunity but i'm especially happy to do this see the limitations of this idea and be like this maybe wasn't like a lost classic and it not being realized fully gave us a lot of simpson stuff that we maybe have more uh stronger feelings about so that that that's a nice offset right yeah i mean ultimately i feel that better sandboxes for smigel and conan o'brien were the simpsons snl and the conan o'brien show both for smigel as a writer and conan as a writer and host yeah yeah i think you see a lot of the stuff that also would work much better not on nbc and in a cartoon also they wouldn't be struggling with

the budget or availability of people and that they could just go so much farther as Conan would when he'd get to finally write on the Simpsons. Not too long after this episode of television was the lowest rated program of the night. There was only 92 shows airing that night or that week, that week. I believe they said it was 92 out of 92 for the, for the day.

Okay. But you know, that number does, it sounds wrong. It should be the week. That has to be for the week. That has to be for the week. That has to be all the primetime stuff. So thank you once again to Drew and Glenn from Gayest Episode

Ever for being on the show. Another non-standard episode, but we learned a lot and we laughed a lot and we loved a lot too. Please let us know where we can find you online and where we can find Gayest Episode Ever and what's been going on with your podcast lately. I'm on Twitter at Drew G. Mackey, M-A-C-K-I-E. And this podcast, our podcast is on Twitter

at Gayest Episode. We're wrapping up our season. We're actually going to take a chunk of the summer off. We're going to be doing our new Patreon bonus series, which is Backdoor Pilots, which is a list of 10 attempts that popular sitcoms in the 80s and 90s did to launch a spinoff most of them did not take but um that our first episode of that is going to drop probably

the week you get back so good early early early june so that's going to be the thing that's going to be running on the main on the patreon feed through the summer and uh we finished up our other patreon series which is weirdest episode ever, which is times popular shows went into genre in sometimes successful ways and sometimes spectacularly unsuccessful ways. That's all on Patreon. I mean, I'll say you can find me on Twitter. I write wrongs. I W-R-I-T-E wrongs. And I actually the show, one of the shows I write for, the only show I wrote for right now, because thank you, WGA Strike,

is Ninjago Dragons Rising. It drops on Netflix June 1st. It is animation. It is a continuation, but also a new start for the Ninjago series, which if anyone has a nephew, they are probably familiar with. Ooh, I have a nephew.

Probably love Ninjago. I'll keep following your account, Glenn, to keep up on what's going on in the strike from your neck of the woods as well. Oh, thank you. And hey, I wish you luck on getting Drew Carey to pay for a meal at Bob's Big Boy. I know, I do love free food.

Can you get Drew Carey to pay for my tuna melt and send it to me? Yeah, I think that'll keep. I'm a supporter. I'm a supporter. He's got lots of money, right? Yeah. I mean, Price is right has to be paying a lot of dollars i think so yeah but uh but thank you drew and glenn once more for coming back on thank you thanks for having us so thanks again to drew and glenn for being on the show please check out gayest episode ever but as for

us you want to check out more of what we do and get these episodes one week at a time and ad free please go to patreon.com slash talking simpsons sign up for five bucks a month you get just that but also a ton of other podcasts that you haven't heard if you're not a patron over 150 bonus episodes covering things like futurama king of the hill batman the animated series the critic and mission hill and that five bucks a month also gets you regular access to monthly episodes of talking futurama and talking of the hill there's a lot going on and the you sign up, you'll get access to everything behind that paywall we've done for the past six complete years. It'll all be available to you immediately the second you sign up at patreon.com slash

Talking Simpsons. And there is a $10 level as well. When you sign up for that, you can access the $5 stuff naturally, but you can also access one extremely long podcast once a month only for patrons of that level or higher. And what is that, Henry? Bob is talking about the what a cartoon movie podcast our premium podcast every month where we talk about an animated feature film super in-depth just like we do a failed pilot like look well and uh last month we talked for over six hours about toy story 4 we had a whole lot to say about that very interesting movie and at the end of this month our pixar summer continues with the incredibles the 2004 brad bird film and there is close to

five years worth of what a cartoon movies at your fingertips if you sign up at that ten dollar level and you get all the five dollar stuff bob mentioned as well that is movies from akira to a goofy movie we have covered so many different animated films and even a few live action or mashup films in there including our longest podcast ever six and a half hours about who framed roger rabbit it's all right there at patreon.com slash talking simpsons and as for me i've been one of your hosts bob mackie you can find me on twitter as bob servo and my other podcast is Retronauts. That's a classic gaming podcast all about old video games.

You can find that wherever you find podcasts or go to patreon.com slash retronauts and sign up there for two full length bonus episodes every month. And Henry, how about you? You can follow me on Twitter at H-E-N-E-R-E-Y-T. I'm always tweeting up a storm. And if you're following me and Bob on Twitter, please follow the official twitter account of this podcast at talk simpsons pod because if you follow at talk simpsons pod you stay in the loop when new episodes come out on patreon on our free feeds if we've got live shows anything that we've got going on in our lives you'll learn about it first if you follow at talk simpsons pod on twitter and also at talk simpsons pod on instagram

and if you need an easy to explore list of all of our previously released free podcasts, head on over to TalkingSimpsonsPodcast.com. Thank you so much for joining us, folks. We'll see you again next time for season 14's How I Spent My Strummer Vacation, and we'll see you then. Hey, you look well. Hello, Hyacinth. How'd that audition go? Quite well. But these things take time.

Did you do that shopping I asked you to do? I tried, but the store said they don't make that hairspray anymore. Those fools.