Talking Simpsons - Talking Simpsons - Principal Charming

Episode Date: January 20, 2016

Patty and Selma both have problems with relationships in this loverly episode that also shows Skinner’s closest thing to happiness, as well as Bart experimenting with grass…

This week's episode of Talking Simpsons is brought to you by Geek Fuel. Go to geekfuel.com slash lasertime to sign up for a box of geeky goodies sent to you directly. And if you sign up through geekfuel.com slash lasertime, you will get an exclusive Star Wars item worth $20 added to your first box. Ahoy, hoy, everybody, and welcome to Talking Simpsons, where we have celibacy thrust upon us. I am your host, Bob Mackie, and this is the Lazer Time Podcast Network's Simpsons Companion Podcast. Indeed it is. Who else is here today? Christopher Anteaston. Henry Gilbert.

I chose celibacy. Special guest. Diana Goodman. Diana Goodman, the host of 302010. Co-host. Great new podcast on this network. Yes, and if you like the next segment, you might like that show too. Check it out. A look at pop culture history 30

years ago, 10 years ago, and 20 years ago. Why did I do it out of order? So this episode today for this episode is Principal Charming. Second season episode which aired on February 14th, 1991. And of course, this episode is about Principal Skinner and Patty's

failed romance. A love story for Valentine's Day. Exactly. It aired on Valentine's Day. Aw. That's sad. Yes, it is very sad. They broke up on Valentine's Day?

So, Chris, what happened on Valentine's Day of 1991? Oh, boy, Bobby. Oh, my God. Bobby, you wouldn't believe it. Lots of new music news. Gary Shandling hosts the 33 annual Grammy Awards where Mariah Carey is awarded the Best New Artist. BET and MTV fight over the exclusivity of MC Hammer's new video,

Here Comes the Hammer, and female rappers Queen Latifah, MC Light, MC Trouble, MC Smooth, Yo-Yo, Nefertiti, Miss Melody, MC, and Nicki D perform a concert for Black History Month. What happened to all the MCs? I don't hear about this many anymore. I think that Gary Shandling Grammys is the one where Frank Sinatra won his

Lifetime Achievement Award and then they cut him off. I remember Gary Shandling apologized for that. Then Sinatra said, I was a rambling old man. I was waiting for someone to cut me off. I had Gary Shanling apologized for that. Then Sinatra said, I was a rambling old man. I was waiting for someone to cut me off. I had nothing to say. Really? Self-awareness from Frank Sinatra?

That is strange to hear. It was one of those weird bouts of self-awareness. A moment of clarity. Anyway, baby, let's get back to us. Principal charming. I love that Diana is here to talk about this one because this one is like, we'll get to it. It's a more feminine episode. It is, for sure. Filled with almost needless classical movie references, wall to wall. It really is.

In this episode, I want to say at first, it's written by David Stern, who's the brother of Daniel Stern, Home Alone's Daniel Stern. And he focused on episodes. It was the greatest time of my life. Exactly. Oh, yeah, in The Wonder Years. And he basically does the best episodes of The Simpsons about female characters. Like, he gave Patty and Selma a humanity you would not see a lot more in this show. And he basically does the best episodes of The Simpsons about female characters. He gave Patty and Selma a humanity you would not see a lot more in this show. He did the Jub Jub episode.

He did the Jub Jub one too. That was kind of a sequel to this. Is this the first focus on Patty and Selma? It's the first episode about secondary characters. The Simpsons are kind of shoved aside. But I think they're kind of seamlessly woven into this episode. And I feel like at this point, I think this is the most mechanically perfect episode like every scene has a purpose everything they're doing is justified nothing is is for granted like and there's so

much happening in this episode it all just happens so seamlessly it does seem to be like it feels like the animation was of kind of last season compared to some of the other episodes yeah but they as soon they take a lot it's more interesting it takes a lot lot more risk. I think Mark Kirkland is the director on this one. I think he is one of the more safer directors. And I feel like. He's also directed the most episodes ever. That too, yeah. As a citizens person.

And we, for this recording session, to spoil things, we did watch some by like Rich Moore, who's awesome, and Wes Archer, who's also really awesome. So that's hard to compare his work to them. Yeah, but Kirkland is like, I guess he's the quiet one of the Fab Four or whatever. He just kind of works in the background and delivers his stuff on time, but he's not as interesting as, say, a Jim Reardon or a David Silverman. But I would not disparage his work. He does great stuff.

Certainly not. The episode begins with Homer waking up and hearing about all he can eat barbecue with Josh. I could go for it right now. I haven't had the opportunity to partake in in years. Do you remember those signs you'd see in the south of like Ace Barbecue? Yes. A-Y-C-E. It's something I didn't even realize I'd lost,

and this episode made me want it back all over again. I wanted to feel as fat as Homer. Marge, honey, I've got five words to say to you. Greasy Joe's Bottomless Barbecue Pit. Remember you promised you'd try to limit pork to six servings a week? Marge, I'm only human. Now look, here's what we're going to do. We'll unload the kids on Patty and Selma Saturday night,

and then we'll eat until they kick us out of the place, just like old times. Saturday night? I'm not even sure my sisters will be available. I'll take that bet. You know what that is gonna mean though is marge is gonna be sitting there for hours watching well that i like that he says just like old times to say when they dated in like his early 20s like yeah that's what we did like five times a week i'd shut down and all i can eat play i think in the next couple episodes

there's a lot of glimmers into how much Marge's life sucks. Yeah. I miss, I also do miss Homer's wake up squiggly hair. Like, I feel like it feels like a very season two thing. And they drew like a little beard stubble on his beard stubble. Yeah, yeah. It's little touches that they kind of lose over time. Yeah, those little details. And then when, so then Marge calls Patty and Selma and we get to see them on the job.

There was one thing i missed there he gets excited about barbecue from talking to barney who's obviously just maxed out on barbecue in the morning and they establish it as 8 a.m yeah did he just like binge and then fall asleep and that's the first thing they when he woke up like i almost feel like he just got home oh wow man must be 24 hours so he went on a bit so he eats the all you can eat then goes on like a bender the rest of the day. Ah, that makes sense, yeah. We're learning more about Barney's life in this episode. I learned a lot about Barney at the end that I've forgotten this fact of his life that he says later.

But we'll get to that. Before we go to the DMV, though, again, I'll point this out again. I said it before. This episode is so well written. They justify Patty and Selma coming to the house. In any other episode, they'd just be there. But they have to set up all of this work there are jokes in there there's funny things happening there's story beats but they're they're also justifying these story choices which i think

is they're taking steps to get there yeah exactly instead of just yeah they're here because patty and selma are here yeah just hurry this up they feel like they need a reason so yeah that's why i like the writing in this episode a lot so they are at the dmv and do we have a clip of patty and selma at their jobs? I don't. Okay, because this is where we first see Hans Molman. Hans Molman. Well, no, no. He first speaks.

I think we see him before this, but yeah. He's a background character that famously Matt Groening hates. He saw him the first time and was like, is that some sort of mole man? And I think they just kept including him because he looks that bad. He's the only person in the Simpsons universe that is that color.

It would imply it's due to deterioration. And then they just kept using him because he just is so distracting. They'll do a horrible thing to him. He's exploded multiple times. I think they reused him just to make Macaraning mad. It's like kissing a peanut.

One of the best lines ever. I have kissing the peanut like the kids. It's like kissing a peanut. One of the best lines ever. I have my... Oh, my brain. It's so depressing. It sets up Patty and Selma as a very weird relationship. I love the flashback. They're going to a wedding of one of their employees that, ah, if I'd only sat next to this person, I'd be getting married right now.

But them working in the DMV is a perfect job for them. Yeah. Oh, yes. That they do the worst thing imaginable in addition to being obnoxious people. Yeah, I mean, they're the most boring, sour people ever in the most boring, sour place you could possibly exist. Yeah, their apartment sucks. Yeah, I love those choices.

It's just like the blandest apartment. It's like Soviet-style housing. But they have that really, really hideous lamp that they must have brought back from Egypt. Their one trip, apparently. They take miserable trips with one another that they hate. Oh, no, wait. We've seen a couple.

We see them at Lennon's tomb, too. So, yeah. Being miserable. I guess it's implied that it's because they're always single. They just have all this money and they take trips together. It's true. They got money and time. I love this.

This is my early on line of the show. That's the joke. Brandy, you're a fine girl. What a good wife you would be. But my life, my love, and my lady is the sea.

Poor Brandy. And Selma, do you think you'll ever get married? Oh, I don't know. Why? You know somebody? No. Oh, coming right after that was my favorite line.

So, like, I can say you're going to be one of these statistically insignificant women over 40 who ever find their parents. I just love Lisa saying no to that. Like, no, I'm not even going to say it. All right, I'm the only single person at this table. And honestly, this episode got a little too real for me i was like oh god i i am i'm reaching my 40s like well i'm seven years away from my 40s but i'm reaching selma's age and just oh i feel lonely this is a bummer you're a man you don't need a companion that's what an ipad is for i just felt bad because it's the last time, I can't really remember any other

episodes where we see that Patty and Selma's relationship is very codependent and sad. It is, yeah. This episode, I didn't think it was as sweet as I thought it originally did this time. I feel like Patty is kind of a destructive force in Selma's life. Finally, Marge gives Homer

a decree. Do you remember our last family vacation when you made us go to the Bowler's Hall of Fame in St. Louis, Missouri, so you could see that car shaped like a giant bowling pin? Remember? Who could forget? Then you'll also remember that you owe me a favor. Oh. To be called up whenever and for whatever reason I desire.

But that was just an idle promise. Not to me. I want you to find a husband for my sister Selma. Find a husband? Wait, which one's Selma again? She's the one who likes police academy movies and Hummel figurines and walking through the park on clear autumn days. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

But I thought she was the one who didn't like to be, you know, touched. It's Patty who chose a life of celibacy. Selma simply had celibacy thrust upon her. But, Mars... Homer, you will find her a man. All right. And not just any man. Okay.

You should be honest. You will find her a man. All right. And not just any man. Okay. You should be honest and caring and well-off and handsome. Hey, why should she have a better husband than you do? I do want to, spoilers, in 15 years it's revealed that Patty is gay.

Is gay. So, yeah, I watched multiple. I was coming at this. That was the first episode aired after the movie, if I recall. There's things on different levels on this, too. If you view this as, like, Patty's actually a lesbian and not celibate. Also, Skinner's mother is not in this episode. No, no.

Skinner's definitely a dweeb, but he's not Norman Bates. That was the Simpsons way of saying Patty was gay all the way back then? I don't think that's what they were telegraphing. Only because in the previous episode, Smithers doesn't get to be as gay as he would eventually become either. Right. I don't think they would figure that out until later. It was just like, oh, I think it was kind of like, oh, this character is a masculine woman, so ergo she is probably a lesbian. Which is something I don't necessarily agree with.

Who do you hear about nowadays that is willfully celibate? It just seemed like code for back in the day that was somebody who's gay. There's actually more people identifying as asexual these days than usual. I don't hear about it on television. No, probably not. But I think the, well, there's a bunch of stuff I want to mention there. First off, that is my line of the show, the celibacy thrust upon me. Me too, yeah.

But also, I definitely had gone on trips where it was just one parent's dream to go on that trip and everybody else suffers through it and i also think that's the first time they've had a marge say remember that time and then homographs a picture instead of picture that's always on the nightstand there's at least four of those i do think it's a great achievement david stern gets you to sympathize with these characters who were just there in the past to be just sour and awful. Not only are they sympathetic, they're also distinguishable from each other. Like Patty is different than Selma, which is something we never really saw before. I love Skinner finally getting a chance to shine.

I think when Harry Shearer had threatened to quit the show, I'm like, none of your characters matter to me except for Skinner. Skinner's one of my favorites. There's nothing funnier to me than a boring character yes because those are the hardest jokes to write yes also the there was one other thing that you want right before that is when homer's on the phone with barney telling about how awesome that food was which in today's day and age homer was just taking like 80 instagrams oh yeah meal but so when he's talking with barney on the phone patty is snoring on this chair next to him and then he says what no that's just my sister is that a fart joke does does barney think that

the noises of the snoring is homer's farting after barbecue i guess you could read it that way maybe well what is barney saying is like what what noise does barney think that is that is this actually patty maybe it's his stomach noises noises because later he's sleeping and his stomach is like making crazy noises. In terms of, I love how much this show is dated. I mean, this is the reality I grew up in, but none of this exists anymore. Bart eventually gets in trouble with Skinner. Homer is at the same time off trying to find Selma a man. Yeah, this brings Homer into this story.

It brings Homer into Seymour Skinner's office. But I love this clip, brings homer into a well it into the seymour skinner's office but i i love this clip but it also emphasizes a time that i grew up in bart i'm flabbergasted surely you knew as you were writing your own name and 40 foot high letters on the field that you would be caught maybe it was one of the other parts there are no other parts the sheer contempt demonstrated by this incident makes me wish i could pull the trusty board of Education out of retirement. So I think I've explained this on many a podcast, but it is a weird transition I'm proud to have grown up in. I was spanked when I was a little kid, and then I remember that didn't happen anymore because it became unpopular.

I remember when I started kindergarten, every kid got spanked with the Board of Education. Oh, wow. And then I remember in first grade, you had to take the kid in theanked with the board of education oh wow and then i remember in first grade you had to take the kid in the bathroom away from the other uh children that's what happened to me the one time i was spanked at school yes and then in second in second grade there was one one person authorized to do the paddling and then in the third year only the principal could do the paddling by the governor and in the fourth year my fourth grade uh you had to have permission for the principal to hit you with a paddle.

And by the fifth year, there was no more spanking ever involved in school. But the paddle stuck around in the principal's office. And he pointed at it. Yeah, it can still work. It's a threat to children. Yes. If you want. Was it more like a paddle? I mean, because that looked like a cricket bat.

It was absolutely a cricket paddle. That was a full-on cricket bat. With holes drilled in it so it would go faster. This is what we were all... I almost got hit with it once and cried until I got out of it. Oh, yeah. My friends had a formal spanking ceremony that I was witness to once where you hang the paddle where it can be seen. They had to sign their names on it, and it was one of those cricket things.

So it's like when it's time for you to get beaten, you bring the paddle to me. And now they're all burnout hippies because they were beaten as children. So that's what happens when you beat your kid so don't do that what is up Talking Simpsons fans Chris here briefly jumping in to tell you this show is brought to you by Geek Fuel and if you go to geekfuel.com slash laser time right now you can get a free

Star Wars item worth $20 just for signing up for a mystery box. What's in the mystery box, you ask? Six to eight items, an exclusive t-shirt, and a $50 value of Kit and Kaboodle featuring famous stuff from Marvel, DC, Nintendo, Zelda, Game of Thrones, Pop Figs, pint glasses, posters. You never know quite what it's going to be, but it's like a delicious geeky gift that shows up at your door whenever you feel like it and oh guess what they've had simpson stuff involved in the box in the past so go to geekfuel.com slash laser time right now sign up for one of their boxes get it as a gift for a geek in your life and get a free right now before that before that scene like homer is getting in his terminator vision yeah there's a bunch of great little jokes there also that apu does apu end up with selma at some point is a joke i feel like i think that's one of the many like terwilliger and the hospital yeah i'm

terwilliger bouvier and the hospital pedal on bouvier oh no wait she refuses to marry him to let him stay in the country oh yeah oh at the school is my first exposure to the movie vertigo without realizing me too yeah what's your expert opinion on this the most random thing so out of nowhere the the whole thing is the you know he needs to go up on the roof and see what Bart has done to the... He could just be on the roof. But for this one episode... To make a Vertigo reference. Just for the Vertigo reference.

Vertigo references. They have him run up a bell tower, look down and get the Vertigo zoom cam. Yeah. And the bell tower is there the whole time. And we were talking about it beforehand. The bell tower is on Springfield elementary the whole episode yeah for some weird reason and we brought it up just it's the bell tower is fake in vertigo in vertigo as well yeah i've watched multiple hitchcock films because simpsons referenced them so much vertigo rear window

the birds north by northwest like i psycho this rear window and yeah and and also the episode Vertigo, Rear Window, The Birds, North by Northwest. Psycho. Rear Window. And also, the episode right before this has a very gratuitous and needless North by Northwest shot. Almost being run over and falling down just as the star of North by Northwest. Cary Grant. Cary Grant. But also a needless Gone with the Wind reference. That's even more needless.

But it doesn't relate to anything at all. I think it fits better than the Vertigo one, because there's at least some narrative justification, not just like, oh, I don't have Vertigo, but here's a shot from it. But it felt like this was the middle of season two is when the directors and the writers realized, we could just outright parody anything. They'll just draw it.

I think of that Itchy and Scratchy and Margie and Mary going, I'm so funny. I used to think of these as glory days of their subtle references, but there's no subtlety to this at all. Where did this even come from? Is it just they're thinking he runs upstairs? Hey, it's like Vertigo. Do they want us to think he's going to murder Patty? That's what

I wonder. Well, Vertigo is about a doppelganger, so wow. It's all coming together now. Spoiler for Vertigo. My parents had doppelganger. So, wow, it's all coming together now. Spoiler for Vertigo, I guess. My parents had to explain to me what a homosexual was or why homersexual was a pun on something. Never got it the time. I think that might be my line.

Hello, is Homer there? Homer, ho. Or line of the show. Homer. Sexual. How we use electricity can be smarter, cleaner and greener. At Electric Ireland, we can help guide you there. You see, our new Net Zero Hub has all you need to know about smart meter plans,

EV tariffs, solar panels and much more. Making your usage clearer, your trips greener, your home cozier, and your world brighter. Find our net zero hub at electricireland.ie Wait one second let me check Homosexual? Come on, come on, one of you guys

has got to be homosexual Don't look at me Oh no You rotten little punk, if I ever get a hold of you I'll sink my teeth into your cheek I like how Mo calls him Principal Skinner. He seems afraid of Skinner. I think he's older than Skinner. Yeah. I think the real question is, who is this, and where is Homer Simpson? Whoa, whoa, sorry, Principal Skinner. Sorry.

It's a bad connection, I think. Guys, for you, I think Bart's in trouble again. Don't! He still doesn't realize it's Bart. He does recognize. But why does Moe recognize Principal Skinner? That's a good question. Well, there's a later joke in the show that implies he taught these people,

but I think this is what, obviously they're not thinking of Mo as one of the original little rascals. No, no, no. He does look older than Skinner, even now. I do like in this episode, Skinner is not as ineffectual as he would become, and because of that, Harry Shearer has to try, like, there are no other

Barts! I love that line, because it's just him screaming, and like, God, I love when Harry Shearer tries, it doesn't happen anymore. It's back before Super Nintendo Chalmers would be the real heavy teaching. Exactly. But Homer's bluntness about trying to see if he was gay. Yes. That's pretty funny, too. I never picked up on that.

And that's why I hope the album art for this is possible Homer sexual. Homer sexual, yeah. It's a great callback. But again, overly elongated Terminator reference throughout that episode. Is it Terminator or Robocop? I think it's really both Terminator well it would have been red this is pre Terminator 2 so I don't remember what Terminator 1 looked like

it was in Terminator 1 as well but yeah it's Red Vision instead I don't know I guess it's just in general first person view they only had really Terminator and Robocop to go on at that point. So what happens? Homer tries to introduce Principal Skinner to absolve Bart of any punishment, I guess.

To try and introduce Skinner to Selma. Why did I burp during that? We didn't mention before Bart kills part of the lawn with the chemical. Hold on. I'm going to get there. He gets from Martin. They're in class together. Martin's voice is pretty much Milhouse the chemical. Oh, hold on. I'm going to get there. He gets from Martin. They're in class together. Martin's voice is pretty much Milhouse's voice.

Oh, is it? It's not Roosie Taylor. Oh, yeah. I forgot about that. But this is Homer trying to introduce Selma to Skinner. Now, Simpson, I had a discomforting thought on the way over here. This dinner wouldn't be a master plan of yours to set me up with some unmarried relation, would it? Because I can assure you that I...

I... Oh. Be still, my foolish heart. Here we go. Boy meets beast. Principal Skinner, allow me to introduce you to my wife's lovely and available sister, Selma.

Hey, Tubbs, I'm Patty. What? Pat-ty. Oh! me to introduce you to my wife's lovely and available sister selma hey tubs i'm patty what they do give patty and selma they give selma s-shaped earrings in this episode so the viewer can tell more than just based on her hairstyles are we to assume that if selma had had the spine to go out there and not got nervous, that he would have fallen in love with her. I think so. Unless he doesn't like her parted puffy hair. She doesn't like the hair like the Grand Tetons.

It just happened to her again. Again, she didn't have the guts. Again, she had the chance and then Patty ruined it. Exactly. Sometimes all you gotta do is take that shot, people. I partially blame Selma. She chose not to. Not too nervous. I can't. Totally you got to do is take that shot, people. Well, she... No, I partially blame Selma. Like, she chose not to... No, I'm too nervous.

I can't. Totally. But she didn't take the shot, man. She didn't put herself out there. And then it's... I feel so bad for her that... Well, Campbell bit Selma. Oh, that's awful.

Yeah, so anyway. Yeah. And again, with more narrative justification, like, they go see a movie, but it's because the parent advisory board asks Skinner to watch this movie. They're just going to this movie for fun down under yeah and and their relationship is just like skinner and enos would be later they get along because they hate the same things like that's that's who patty is and skinner is learning to hate just like patty does whatever candy is her favorite is disgusting cherry cordial every time i hear cherry cordial i think of that i don't i've never heard it before. What is it?

If you get an assorted box of chocolates, you'll usually find one in there. It's basically a chocolate-covered cherry, or really a maraschino cherry, with a bunch of sugary cherry-flavored syrup over it. And a whole box of those? I couldn't imagine eating a whole box. Here's the clip of that. Bart, you wouldn't happen to know what sort of candy your Aunt Patty likes, would you? Cherry cordial, sir.

Oh, very good. Now then, regarding your punishment, do you feel that you've learned your lesson? Here's another first. Just the thought of doing anything bad again, this makes my stomach turn. Well then, you're free to go. Well, Willie, you can take it from here. Adios, dude. You'll be back.

You haven't seen the last of Willie. Yeah. That's so weird. There he is. He's given a name before he's shown. I just didn't remember the introduction of Groundskeeper Willie was very specific. Can I tell the story of how he was created? He was just a nondescript groundskeeper character,

and Dan Castelnut is in the booth saying, Who is this this guy so he tries out a few accents he did a spanish accent they're like that's too stereotypical then he does like a dumb swede and they're like nah and then he lands on scottish like that's a funny idea because the idea of a scottish groundskeeper is the joke like he's not like a mexican guy like you would expect or you know any other stereotype like that the culture that created the golf course. Exactly. He should know what he's doing. But he's just supposed to be a one-off character. They also say on the commentary when he says, you haven't seen the last of

Willie, the writers are saying, yes we have. We're never putting him back in the show. He says it again later in the episode. And now he has entire episodes about him in the show. Yeah, where they go to Loch Ness and he talks about his time in North Kilt Town and that he has the perfectly chiseled body

underneath those overalls. Just like Flanders. Yeah, just like Flanders. He's got a real body by Ned. His father was hanged for stealing a pig. I want to burn this clip just because they go out to eat at Springfield's Revolving Restaurant.

Oh, right. I forget I've been to one of those. It's ridiculous. Did you see cool stuff out the window like they did that's there's a ton in these episodes there are a ton of background jokes yeah and you'll you can hear it in this clip like it's a riot at the springfield penitentiary which for some reason is 18 stories tall in the center of town right next to the road from that yeah i will say in youngstown ohio the most visible landmark is the prison oh god

so there you go hey can we get some service over here? And that's for water three times now. Is everything all right? Well, well, well, if it isn't little Jimmy Pearson. Class of 71, I believe. Good evening, Principal Skinner. Pearson, get this woman a glass of water immediately and tuck in your shirt. Yes, sir.

Nearly 30 and still working as a busboy. Take a standardized testing, never lies. Wait a minute. Class of 71? He'd have been in Vietnam in 71. In the late 60s?

I thought the war formally ended in like 60s. No, 74. Never mind, I wasn't wrong about that. Diana was alive back then. I was like 75. 74. Never mind, I was wrong about that. He was in it... Diana was alive back then, so she... I was in Nam, man. They don't give a set time of when he's in Vietnam, but he's barely returned from Vietnam. He has... Principal Skinner's been working with the government

for longer than my retired father. Yeah. At this point. So then they set up also the Australian... When they get to the Space Mutants, I thought Space Mutants typifies like early Simpsons for me. But they're already up to the Australian one.

I thought, how many? I don't think there's many more appearances by the Space Mutants. We've seen it once in the Telltale Head. That's the movie they sneak into. And now they're up to the Australian variation. Down Under. Is there another?

I can't remember if there's another Space Mutants after this one. And they make fun of the Australian craze, but I think we were smack dab upon it. We were. Five years later. The Rescuers just went Down Under, sort of quiggly. And then after their date too, when Skinner makes an advance on her and she rejects him,

she's basically Miss Piggy in that scene. Yeah, she judo chops him across the room. Notice in that scene his little feet when you're watching. He has very little feet. I will say, I don't know if this cannot be intentional, but when something scary happens in the movie and she holds on to him and he says, Hello, Dolly.

They established that last season is his favorite movie. Oh, really? Which episode? I don't know, but they opened the episode with him showing it to the kids at the auditorium. And they hate it because it's awful. Oh, you mean the 27th season? Yeah. He shows literally this last season.

Yeah, I watched that episode. It's the most live-action footage you've ever seen in The Simpsons. And it's Skinner showing Hello, Dolly to a screenwriter. Wow. That's a weird character detail they held on to. Holy shit, Diana. I'm glad you were here to remind me of that or to bring it up in general but homer tries to write it by setting up uh setting up selma with somebody else all right homer lighten up you're making happy hour bitterly ironic

i'm gonna find a date for my big fat snotty sister-in-law Selma. Hey, I'm intrigued. What does Selma look like? Like my wife's ugly sister. Wheeler in, Homer. I'm not a picky man. Wheeler in. I love Barney in these episodes because he's not just a punchline, not just like one line that accents another joke. He's like playing into these stories as like this degenerate drunk,

and he's great. His next scene, everybody made me laugh in this sequence. When Selma's getting dolled up, Barney comes. We have the first appearance of, gee, your lip looks hairless. Gee, your lips look hairless. Look at the Yosemite sand. My favorite line was in this scene. It was Homer saying, take it to the hoop, Selma.

When Barney says it. It's a ripe piece of cheese to in the scene. It was Homer saying, Take it to the hoop, Selma! Takes a ripe piece of cheese to catch the mouse. It's time to give away my love like so much cheap wine. Take it to the hoop, Selma! I love it. Hey! Look what I brought! It snaps?

I'll take that. Barney is followed by a fly. That flies too much. It is. We know he's a filthy drunk who zipped up his shirt through his fly. But he's wearing a tie

with the small end way longer than the big end. I did get a subtle reference to Mystery Date when you open the door and it's like the dud or whatever. I feel like Barney was the ultimate dud.

And just Selma. It felt like a certain level of empathy for Selma you rarely see on the show where she is realizing like, yeah, I guess I am. This is me choosing to settle. Like, I guess I'll just settle for this awful, awful mistake. It's a choice all women must face.

We are disgusting. Earlier, I mean, she shows a lot of self-awareness because she's like, I'm getting fatter, I'm getting older, I need to find a man. She realizes, like, this is who I am

and I hate it. But Barney is the absolute bot. Like, she's like, if you go to Barney, there's probably five other guys at that bar she should have gotten with before Barney.

Like, this is... I guess if Lenny and Carl were bigger parts in the show at this point, they would have set them up. They were deemed too attractive. Yeah. Oh, yeah, Carl was too attractive for Selma. I guess if Lenny and Carl were bigger parts in the show at this point, they would have set them up. They were deemed too attractive. Oh, yeah, Carl was too attractive for Selma. Now we know.

I never had no idea what the barometer was for Simpsons attractive. Yeah, really. Did you notice the callback to the I am still a wiener in the background, too? Yes. Callback to El Barto. Because during this whole thing, Bart gets to run Riffshot over Springfield Elementary. Owner and proprietor by the way he works with me now i thought it was a mistake on seymour's part to tell bart that he was planning to marry uh patty he tells bart

like you would never tell a 10 year old that you're gonna propose he's just so lovesick he wants to tell everybody about it. He says, I wish I could make a PA announcement about how much I'm in love with Selma. He's so excited about being in love because he's so lonely. And Bart knows it's a mistake. He's like,

you're a funeral. Yeah. That is funny. And then Selma's like, I'm so depressed. What did you learn at school today, Bart? And Bart tells Selma and her reaction is just

the ash falling from her cigarette. That was a great reaction, yeah. This culminates with another vertigo reference in the tower. They're going up to the bell tower, which means, is she going to fall, jump, be pushed? I never thought of that. Is it murder?

I only thought about that thinking about it now, but is that what they want? That's sort of what I love about Old Simpsons because these movies were staples for everybody. They assumed everybody would get these references, where I don't think 80% of the population would get a Vertigo or Gone with the Wind reference. My parents had to tell me all of them.

I'd seen these movies at that point. I had not seen Vertigo as a 10-year-old. By 91, you'd seen Vertigo. Gone with the Wind is my mom's favorite movie, so I've seen that a bunch. I'd probably seen it. My dad watches that stuff all the time. I'm almost positive I saw Vertigo by the time I was 10.

But I do wonder, did the writers want you to think... Well, I'm a nerd. Did the writers want you to think there'd be a Vertigo-type plot when they got to the top of the tower? I don't think so. I think they just wanted the audience to go,

oh, that's cute. That was basically what you're supposed to get out of it. Well, they built that tower for that episode. They might as well use it. So what it sounds like is that both at certain points, Julie Kavner and Harry Shearer are recorded in a different room. Like the room tone here at the top of this.

It sounds like, because they're on the top of a tower, but it sounds like a room. Marry me, Patty. Jeez, I'm crowed. Look at the size of that rock. It's the second most precious jewel in this bell tower. Patty, the question before you is, will you marry me? Seymour, I don't know. I mean, this is so...

Oh, just say whatever's in your heart. Okay. You see, it's not that I don't love you. You love me! Kalu Kale! Wow, I love that. Yes, yes, but... But?

But? But I'm a twin. And as such, I have a special... Special tie to your sister, yes. And the only man I could marry would have to understand... You couldn't leave your sister for any man. Oh. Yes.

So I know you appreciate why you can never... See you again? Exactly. It's kind of a catch-22. Ouch. I don't... Again, major codependency. Yeah, I don't...

Patty is keeping men away from Selma. Selma is Patty's excuse for not, I don't know, coming out or dealing with anything. I grew up with two sets of twins. One paternal, one identical, and they both live on different sides of the country. Why wouldn't you?

She seems to be into Seymour here. I don't think the writers were writing her as a lesbian then. Now you read into it that like she's uh she's really saying no because i'm not into dudes and you're the the dude i've liked the most to this point but i still wouldn't have sex with you but yeah well you could even say let's let's pretend that she's totally straight and totally into dudes even then it's sort of like well well, Selma's never going to get married, so I can't let her be lonely. Yeah. So, like I said, it's codependent and really sad.

It's funny, the episode even points that out, like when Selma and Patty reunite, and Selma's like, you gave up your one chance of love just so I could be happy? He's like, yeah. They definitely point that out. That's nice.

I also love the... So, right after that, when we visit Barney on the date, he says, then after the service, well, next few years are a blur. I'd like to see Barney in the Army. That seems like an episode that we need to watch. I guess I could see Barney...

Well, we have seen Barney in the Naval Reserve. Oh, right, yeah. But I love referencing... I know that every plot you could suggest has been an episode at this point. But I guess Barney flunked out of high school. Or he finished high school, but then he didn't go to college. And I guess just joined the army.

And I would guess he went 4F as an alcoholic. That's what I would think the eventual finale to is. Sweet. I'm glad to know I can totally get out of the army. I'm thinking that's a dishonorable discharge. Yeah. Something happened. Yeah, that's probably it.

Or he just went AWOL on a bender i felt like there so the very ending where which is the final line is groundskeeper willie's but that it's just bart quietly planting the seeds again i thought you're supposed to reference music or something there because it's not it's not just it's like a crop it's not it's not replanting his his the letters of his name i think it's not just, it's like a crop. It's not replanting the letters of his name. After he did his name and then after they did the, you know, will you marry me, the whole thing is just trash. So it's just make him do everything. But I couldn't be sure. I don't think it was another

gone with the win reference. Skinner just made the punishment even worse. Marry me Patty was so big they just had to destroy everything. Nope, gotta start from scratch here. Have we explained the gone with the wind reference in case anyone doesn't know i don't know how it applies to anything happening in the show skinner breaks down and uh then he notices bart simpson has put uh you know under springfield elementary bart simpson owner and proprietor and then he gets his like resolve back and says after all tomorrow is another school day

resembles the same shot and gone with the wind where her father recommends buying land yeah it's like i mean it's it's it's a combination of like two shots are going to one with the red sky and insulated tomorrow's you know i will never be hungry again yeah also that sort of bendy tree is used a bunch of times of shots over the land with that bendy tree and big horizon even if it's frivolous though it's a beautiful shot in this episode like i thought it was like pretty amazing looking even 25 years later they were putting the work at least but it is very it's very random especially when they already have the vertigo stuff like it's just like it's a hat on a hat and terminator yeah who else was doing this just working references in seamlessly yeah pretty much so they could have creative license not Not anymore.

So yeah, that was Talking Simpsons. That was Principal Charming. I love it, and I hope you guys like this episode. I am Bob Mackie, your host. Find me at BobServo on Twitter. I also host the classic gaming podcast, Retronauts, so listen to that if you like video games, and you should.

Who else is here? Chris Antistuff, LaserTime. There's a whole bunch of shows on the LaserTime network. You might have heard of us. I just feel like this was one of the episodes that was taken out of syndication rotation for some reason. Really? I saw it a lot in syndication.

It feels like, compared to the ones before and after this, I've seen this one a lot less for some reason. And I'm Henry Gilbert, and I host Cape Crisis every week, a comic book podcast on the Lazer Time Network. I also wanted to mention, I forgot today,

originally we were going to have a joke about Skinner's toupee in there. Oh, right. He's clearly drawn to have a tou about Skinner's toupee in there. Oh, right. He's clearly drawn to have a toupee, but Groening has always resisted because he thinks it's too obvious a joke. Though, in Simpsons Comics number two, he has his toupee ripped off. Oh, snap. At least in that comic, which is vaguely canonical, he does Skinner wears a toupee.

It's canon. I'm Diana Goodman. My husband hosts Fidget Game Apocalypse here on the Laser Time Network. I'm also on Twitter at lisinanerd.com. I always say.com. At lisinanerd.

Period. And the show you like to do. I'm bad at Twitter. And I'm also now on 302010. We talk about old timey stuff. Cool. Well, thanks for listening. We'll see you next week

with a brand new episode. Good night. When the bars close down. Branday walks through Thanks for listening. We'll see you next week with a brand new episode. You're a finder What a good wife you would be But my life, my love and my lady Is the same You're a finder What a good wife you would be But my life, my love and my lady. And say it.

Yes, it is.