Talking Simpsons - Talking Simpsons - Simple Simpson with Matt McMuscles

Episode Date: August 27, 2025

"No trap can hold Homer Simpson—uh, but I'm not Homer Simpson! I'm the Pie Man! Homer Simpson, away! I mean, the Pie Man!" - Homer Simpson (The Pie Man) When Lisa is publicly humiliated, Homer transforms his love of pastries and violence into a new alter ego: Pie Man. But when Burns discovers this hero's secret identity, Homer becomes a tool for evil and a potential Dalai Lama assaulter. Come for the slight nod to Raimi's Spider-Man, stay for as many '60s Batman references a post 9/11 audience can stomach. Our guest: Matt McMuscles Support this podcast and get over 200 ad-free bonus episodes by visiting Patreon.com/TalkingSimpsons and becoming a patron! And please follow the official Twitter, @TalkSimpsonsPod, not to mention Bluesky and Instagram!

This podcast is brought to you by patreon.com slash talking Simpsons. Head there to check out exclusive podcasts like Talking Futurama, Talk King of the Hill, the What a Cartoon movie podcast, and tons more. I heartily endorse this event or product. Ahoy, hoy, everybody, and welcome to Talking Simpsons, the podcast that never listens to Cakes. I'm one of your host, the fantastic floor reader Bob Mackey, and this is our chronological exploration of the Simpsons, who is here with me today, as always. It's cobblering time, Henry Gilbert. And who is our special guest on the line?

It is me, the cupcake kid, Matt McMussels. And this week's episode is Simple Simpson. Evil doers beware Signed Simple Simon Your Friendly Neighborhood Pie Man Finally A superhero that kids can love What about fistface?

Fist face? Who's Fist face? Listen to the end of the episode Listeners and you might find out who Fist Faces is This week's episode originally aired on May 2nd 2004 And as always Henry will tell us what happened On this mythical day in real world history Oh my God

Mean Girls Tops the box office, Megas XLR, a previous What a Cartoon movie podcast subject, debuts on Cartoon Network, and A National Nightmare has ended for Simpsons fans because The Simpsons actors have signed a new contract extension for several more years of episodes. Well, that's the thing I want to hear about the most, because this is one of the last times they actually got more money instead of taking pay cuts to keep the show going, right? Yes, yeah. Every few years, the Simpsons, I guess it hasn't happened the last couple extensions. It just seems like

the actors have been beaten down enough that they're like, look, you're going to take a gradual pay cut, you'll still be the highest paid voice actors, probably in the world. But take a little pay cut. But this time was probably the last time they got a raise. I had

missed this in the previous histories for the last few we did that were April 2004 episodes. But there's a line in the episode where Bart talks about Fox contracts. So that made me want to look up, oh, what was the contract status. This episode's air date was when it was announced that the Simpsons was renewed. Thankfully, no homers.net has kept a full archive of the entire April 1st to May 1st timeline

of France posting in there. Is the show going to get canceled? Is it going to end after 15 years of The Simpsons? Well, have no fears. There'll be seasons for years because they're renewed up to season 40 now. Yeah. If you had told me in 2004, don't worry. There will be 25 more seasons after this. I would have not believed it and thought you were crazy. I would have thought 20 seasons, but 25 is just ridiculous. And yeah, they went through that you can find it on the no homers.net, a very helpful archive of seeing 2004-era Simpsons fans

wrestling with the idea that the series could end, or also them saying, you know, the actors are starting to get a little old. I can understand it. Again, in 2004, they're saying this. And Megus XLR, that's something that we covered on our sister's What a Cartoon, correct? Very long time ago. Yeah, it was a listener pick and a good one.

It is an interesting show that's like an Amera anime, except it's created by a guy who made a effed-up MTV cartoons in the 90s. It's the guy who made the show, Not Undergrads. Downtowners. Downtown. How dare you confuse the two. Yeah, sorry.

Downtown is so much better than undergrad. They'll both have like almost all the same archetypes in it. But yeah, then the guy made Megasexxx. LR. And it's an interesting story, too, because it was another of those shows that was a Warner Brothers tax ride off that got like shoved in a corner. And it's recently was in the news because in June of 2025, co-creator of the show Jody Schaefer revealed that thanks to international sales, the show actually did make its money back. And they were going to reboot it a few years ago. And then the Warner discovery merger ended those talks and it got canceled again. It's also, it's a fun American anime show because basically all the voice cast is the English language voice cast of Cowboy Bebop because the creator's like, I like that dub. I'm going to hire all of them to be my cast on the show. Well, it's a good show, and I'm happy they got more work. And the mean girls, did you guys see mean girls in theaters?

I saw it in theaters. I only saw it recently. I was boycotting all high school entertainment for about 10 years after I graduated because I just hated high school so much. I was just going to say, for me, Mean Girls, much later saw it on VHS or DVD or whatever. I was a big fan of Mean Girls, but many people are nowadays. For me, it was Jawbreaker. I saw that in theaters, if you guys remember that one. It's the worst.

I was pulled into Mean Girls because it was like, oh, Tina Faye, the Saturday Night Live writer did a movie. That sounds cool. This does show my age. I'm more of a clueless boy. I liked Clueless as well. I was nearly 22 when it came out, but I was close enough to high school that I like that there was a heavier gay guy in it, too.

And since the film has come out, I think most of the majority of the male actors in the film have come out as gay. So it's a very gay cast, it turned out. And it's now old enough to have a musical that everyone despises based on it. Oh, yes. That was one of those ones. The trailer had no songs in it. It just tricked you into thinking it was a remake of Me Girls, period. Yes.

So that's everything that happened. The week this episode aired as well as we were in the two-month run-up to the release of the most important film and event. of 2004 to me, the release to Spider-Man 2 at theaters. And joining us this week is Matt McMussels, and Matt last joined us for Season 3's Radio Bart. Welcome back to the show, Matt. It's been a while.

That's a huge show from Season 3 to season 15. And I'd never seen this particular episode, so I didn't really know what I was expecting, but when Henry mentioned Spider-Man references, I'd be like, oh, okay, I'm kind of interested in this. So very, very excited to talk about this one today, because I had a

root-to-in-good time with this. this was i think it's my favorite of the 15s we've watched like not just a great script but also great animation too it's up there you've heard us be very very cranky about recent episodes like codependence day and catch him if you can just hateful depressing episodes and this is just them having a lot of fun i think and not all the jokes are that original not all the jokes work but i'm just happy they're in this mode again 2004 was the year of spider man Matt, you just recently covered the PC Spider-Man game release of Spider-Man 2. But, like, it was the year for Spider-Man. Like, we were all waiting for Spider-Man 2, and it was a gigantic kid.

Like, it did not disappoint as well. But this is, like, two months ahead of the July release of it. Really? Oh, okay. I mean, owes a ton to Spider-Man. And also, listeners, way back in the archives, can see there's me and you talked about Spider-Verse and also No Way Home as well as a one-off holiday podcast, I remember. Well, also, Matt, actually, one other thing I want to ask, recently, there was news that made me think like,

oh, this has to make Matt very happy. The Punisher is going to be in the next Spider-Man movie. Now, you love, you're not a weirdo who loves the Punisher. You like the Punisher for good reasons. You don't have a Blue Lives Matter Punisher flag in your background. I am a very normal Punisher fan that's just like, man, Frank, I love Punisher in Spider-Man, the animated series. That's the best Punisher, the one that can never shoot anybody

unless it's with like Nerf guns and stuff. So I like many guys of The Punisher. And yeah, when that was announced, I was like, that's cool just because John Bernthal and Tom Holland are like besties in real life. And they helped each other get their own, nail their own auditions for the respective MCU roles. So that makes me just, you know, excited for them to sort of get that going. And I'd like to see The Punisher constantly not being able to shoot people in an MCU

Spider-Man movie. I want to see how they get around that. Very excited. This episode, yeah, it's John Vidi. Like, he's the best. They lose Schwarzwalter this season, but they get Vee back, and he's killing it. This is his penultimate episode. It's not the final one he'll write, but he is done after production season 15.

He's off to write the Angry Birds movie. He does reflect on his time writing the first two Alvin the Chipmunks movies on this commentary track, which is very funny. He's getting a lot of shit for it, and he's rightfully accepting all of the shit. And this is also Jim Reardon's last episode as a director. He's continuing on as a supervising director throughout the rest of the season, but this is his last episode that he directs, and then he's off to Pixar while he'll soon be working on Wally,

and after that he'll be nominated for an Oscar for writing the film with another person. Andrew Stanton, I think. That sounds right. Boy, now this makes me sadder about this episode. I hadn't looked up that this was Reardon's last episode, too. So this is another, like, watershed moment. Like you said, he'll be supervising the rest of the season. It does hurt them to lose Reardon.

and he is one of their best directors. He directed great episodes with John Vidi. Like John Vidi talked about how Reardon draws him so funny, and his style of Homer is so fat and funny. And that's the origin of this episode is John Vidi, you know, classic writer for The Simpsons, wrote things like Lisa's substitute, Bart the Lover, Black Widower,

brother from the same planet, Cape Fear, so many all-time classics. But he was a little myth that he never really got to write a wacky, Homer episode outside of Mr. Plow. And I'll say, wait a minute, John, you wrote Mr. Plow. Isn't that enough? But he said, no, before I leave the Simpsons, I want to write one other Wacky Homer caper, and this is it. And it is in the guise of a Spider-Man parody at times, but it is really a 60s Batman parody.

And that is one of the biggest influences on the whole original group of writers, 60s Batman. Yeah, man, I don't know if you know this, but for guys like John Viti, George Meyer, Al Jean, but especially Vidi and George Meyer. For what The Simpsons is to us, 66 Batman was to them. They were huge news for that show. Like, they tracked, as we have tracked down John Vidi and interviewed him, they tracked down the writers of Batman and interviewed them when they first got to Hollywood.

That's not too surprising given the amount of like 60s Batman references in the first 10 seasons easily. You know, like I can think of several. So that's not too surprising. You even see them as late as season 36 References to 60s Batman So I feel like Al Jean is still hanging on To those references And just sprinkling them in

It's a well that never runs dry It's also funny that like The Batman 66 just like burned brightly For like really two and a half years And then just gone and done And The Simpsons has gone on 14 times as long at this point, right? I think if not longer.

Oh yeah, yeah. Wait, you said it was three seasons? It was three seasons, so really it was like two and a half years of TV. Basically, it was dead by the time. The third season is like, not repackaged, but they're like, okay, back girl, that'll get people into it again, right? But it didn't work and it got canceled by the end of the third year. This owes so much to Batman 66 with the cover of Spider-Man in here as they're like, no, no, we're referencing a current film, the recent Spider-Man movie. Here are two nods, and that's all you'll get.

Actually, I did some simple, scary math, and if Batman 66 ran for 36 seasons, the math is very easy, that means it would currently be airing new episodes in 2002. If it had been like The Simpsons, of course, we're dealing with real people who have to be filmed and who have to be doing stunts and everything, but that just shows how long the Simpsons has been running. This calls for the scary math jingle, actually, Bob. Thank you. Lisa, are you doing math? It could have been a post-9-11 show. I was going to say magic animation, but then again, Hugh Jackman is going into his, like, 24th year of being Wolverine right now. So I guess it's a difference of, like, not just it, not aging the same,

and the power of human growth hormones, let's say, perhaps. And training regimens, like, too. Meanwhile, as Adam West said in Mr. Plow, Pure West. Also, this episode is another, like, John Vini was the most political of the guys who were writing in season 15, I think. Like, he was pulling from the news at the time. Like, this has several things that feel very W-era politics, but especially like just political pyings, or that that was a big thing he was pulling from two.

There's no one guy. A lot of guys do this, these pranksters who pie political figures and often just wealthy figures in general. The one I looked up was Noel Godin, who was, I believe, a Frenchman. who is the man who did pie Bill Gates in 98. That's one of the more infamous pieings. Yeah, there's a fast company in 2017. They have a pretty good history on it about decades of pie throwers. That was one of the big ones of recent times.

Up to the run-up of this episode, like Calvin Klein also got pied in 2001. Ralph Nader in 2003 for daring to be right about things. And Coulter also got pied as well. And it's funny you mentioned this on Canada Day. but in the year 2000, Prime Minister Jean Creteen also is popular. Do you remember this in the news, Matt? Yeah, yeah. Kretien is one of those late 90s, early 2000s premieres,

and I do remember seeing about this. Like, there's so many worse things you could get thrown in your face. You know, if I was any of these people, I'll be like, hey, a pie, delicious, thank you. Usually it's just a tin full of whipped cream. Yeah, yeah. So easy cleanup, not a lot of crust. I know you're not even getting crust like this filling in here makes it more exciting

this pie in here and like the man who did it to the prime minister or should I say the pie minister but the man who did that got 30 days I feel like now they would in America if you were to pie the president you would be in Guantanamo for the rest of your life yes you would be deported and I know all of the nursery rhyme

had just went yeah when I said the title of this episode because it is based on the classic nursery rhyme simple Simon and I was mistaken because i haven't heard this in many decades but i was just thinking yeah simple simon was a pieman no simple simon met a pieman and the entire nursery rhyme was about how he could not afford a pie so he went fishing instead wow i always even after watching this episode i was like yeah it's simple simon he's that pie man wow nope nope just a guy who can't afford pies i thought that was the like pieman's alter ego i thought that was going for a how most stanley created superheroes have

the same, like, you know, names, Bruce Banner, Peter Parker, Sue Storm. I thought it was going for Matt Murdoch. I thought it was going for that sort of thing. I didn't catch that good one, because I was just kind of like Simple Simon. Why is it called this? So thank you for sort of illuminating that for me. The note is the opening clip. I mean, I love that because it's, you know, it's a Spider-Man thing.

But also, yeah, I wondered if that was like a joke in the episode of like that Homer was going to say, I told everybody, I'm Simple Simon, not. the pie man. Why does everybody call me the pie man? It said on the note, from Simple Simon, your friendly neighborhood pie band. Right, right, right. Okay, yeah. And yeah, Bob, you mentioned their mocking Viti for the

squeak wall on there, which was very funny. But also, like, they also have Don Payne, the late Don Payne in there again, who wrote multiple Fantastic Four and Thor films. So it's a real comic book movie nerd collective here. And I feel bad because he died before he could write a good one. I think the ones

he wrote are the ones that people universally dislike, and I'm sure it's not his fault. There's so much studio tampering. Well, Matt, where would you? Dark World for a long time was, like, the worst Marvel movie. I feel like it's, like, not even third worst right now. I don't know what your personal rankings are at the

MCU. At the time, yeah, I was like this is not, like, I dislike Thor one, like, quite a bit. Like, there was still some highlights. And recently, I just saw that bit where if Chris Hemsworth didn't hang up Maloneyer on the wall, then we wouldn't have gotten the

comedic Thor that we've gotten because of that Kevin Feige was like we have to make these comedies now because that was the best bit of Dark World. So I just think that's a great little bit of trivia. But yeah, it's still down there for me, but I haven't watched it in ages. I'm sure if you watch it nowadays, it's like yeah, that was much better than like Eternals or whatever, whatever people shit on nowadays. So but yeah, like at the time I didn't like it. If we're going to stick to Thor, Ragnarok is still the like far and away the best one. for me, so. Though now they've had to

like promise the next door movie won't be funny. They're like, that's how they're getting headlines now. Like Chris Hemsworth goes like, we're not going to be funny next time. I'm sorry.

It'll be the dark night of four movies. And on the 2011 commentary, John Vidi does say, current thing he's working on is in production limbo. And I'm guessing it probably was the Angry Birds movie

because that movie should not have come out in 2016. And yet it was a huge hit. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's crazy. And again, I don't want to blame. I think I've said before

that people have pointed out the Angry Birds movie seems like rather xenophobic when you deconstruct the plot of it. But I'm going to say that film was reworked so much that none of that I would put on John Vidi. Yeah, I guess John Vee is retired, but his name is attached to the upcoming Gendi Tartakovsky animated feature fixed. Which that's also been in limbo so long. He probably wrote it in like 2018 or something. This summer, coming this summer to Netflix. I think the month this goes live. August? Are we in August? I think we're in August. Yeah, I think so. Yeah. Yeah, listeners, did I enjoy

Boy, the new Superman in Fantastic Four movies, or was I let down? Oh, we're in late August. Hey, speaking of superheroes, the episode begins with the Batman 66 couch gag. They already used it in Today I Am a Cloud, but obviously they're like, come on. We have to use this one a second time this season for this episode. It really signals what you're in for. Yeah. But first, to let you know it's the year 2004, it's a parody of the new idea of dating island shows.

Like, this is a parody of Temptation Island, which still exists. It has new season. Yeah, that shocked me, you guys, because this was a big hit when it first went on the air in 2001. That's how old it was by the time they referenced it. It was a mega hit, but then nobody cared immediately after that first season. So they only made a few more. But then in 2019, it came back as a USA Network show, which I guess the USA Network still exists. That surprised me.

And as of 2025, it is now a Netflix original. So you cannot sink Temptation Island. It's crazy, too, because Netflix also has the hit. show Love Island, which I thought like, they can't have Temptation Island and Love Island, but they do. I do have to cut in here and say, I am a big fan, unironically, of too hot to handle on Netflix, ever since Andrew Garfield said, this is my favorite show, I love it so much, and when you actually watch it, and they have to scam young couples, young singles, into

thinking this will be no pants island and bone in all the time, but then they're like, Nope, you can't touch each other at all. So every season, they have to come up with different show names and gimmicks to fool the people into coming on the show. Then they reveal it. It's the best. It's the best. Hey, I'm in no glass house. I watch Love is Blind.

I watch the Love on the Spectrum series. Haven't seen many other dating shows, but I yet. Well, I like this joke here. They make sure to show that Marge is watching it to be the viewer who goes like, that's right. Skanks, you're going to get, like, the people who watch it to think they're better than the people on the show. Even Sweet Marge is turning on the skanks. That marked my first laugh on this episode, just straight up, March going, you're going to get a skanks. It was nice.

But how do you guys feel about the borrowing or accidental theft of the Monster Island joke from Lisa on Ice? Now, we're in joke court. I'm examining the evidence, and I will say that none of these gentlemen on the staff were present for the writing of Lisa on Ice. and I believe Matt Warburton, who joined the staff in the early aughts, is the guy who wrote that joke in this episode. So I feel like parallel thinking at the time I was mad about this, but I'm willing to let it go. Community service. Yes. Yeah, I'd say nine years separated from the joke and pretty much the whole staff like John Viti, could he have even watched that episode?

I don't know. Like, why would you go back? He might not have even seen it. But I get to, I think we've heard this before from like, Mike Lawrence, maybe. he might have said this, but we've heard this from comedy writers we've had on who mentioned that, like, you don't want to be the guy, even if you do recognize it as a familiar joke you've done

before, who wants to be the person in the room to be like, to stop everything and say, I think we did that before. I'd like to think that now one writer is just on Frankiac the entire time they're breaking down episodes. I like to that Viti is not just

taking the task of like that these are just horny idiots and that's why people watch these shows is because gorgeous people who act like jerks and basically wear their underwear the entire time, especially in an island thing, but also that he makes the point of like there was a mild racism to those shows, like they're rejected for intelligence character or ethnicity, meaning you're not a white person. Yeah, they would get thrown out too.

Though now that those shows seem a lot more diverse, I'd say, in modern day. So, hey, we at least got that in stupid reality shows that are about, like, poisoning people with fame. At least they go to everybody now, much more wide-ranging umbrella. And this is where Bart, as the characters get humiliated on the peninsula thing, this is where Bart brings up, well, when you sign a contract with Fox, you know you're going to be betrayed and humiliated. That's what brought me to look up like, hey, wait, were they in contact negotiations? Such funny timing that this aired the day the voice actors signed their deal, or at least that the news broke about it. It's crazy. And this is where, you know,

Shearer, I think, would say later that, like, on one of the negotiations, either this one or the next one, was where the actors, like, broke ranks that, like, not exactly like somebody took a deal and they didn't, but just that one said, let's settle for it. And he would later say he regretted doing it. But, you know, Harry Shearer, not always the happiest camper. Then we get a joke. Well, they don't say TiVo, but this does feel like a TiVo joke, right, about skipping the ads. Oh, yeah, I guess so. I guess they don't mention TiVo, but if they have the ability to skip the ads, we're talking about DVR technology. And listeners, if you want to skip the ads, sign up at Patreon. Easy to do.

If you don't, it's like you're stealing the podcast. But this is where Homer learns about an important contest. What are those women expect? When you sign a contract with Fox, you know you're going to be betrayed and humiliated. Quiet, the commercials on. We don't watch these.

It's like we're stealing TV. Do you love? that soo smell of farmer bellies baking do i ever would you like to see how a pig goes from loving life to your forking knife would i well if you open up one of these here packages and find a golden ticket you get a tour of farmer billy's baking factory warning bacon factory may explode you'll see the hoof grinder the marrow sloops and the course the five-story pig shredder, blessed by three Poles. If you like

bacon, you're going to love it. And if you don't like bacon, well, that's the hell with you. I'm going to find that golden ticket and win that tour. The only thing that can make bacon more delicious is seeing how it's made. This feels early

in the era of epic bacon internet comedy as well, right? And they also execute Ralph in front of us. That's great. One of the more unhinged things I've seen a while just he's there for about two seconds I very this entire thing

was a machine gun of me just warning bacon factory may explode a slight pause to make you think there's going to be more to that joke no that's it oh my God I was dying very early on and blessed by three popes that's also great too yeah and you think

they're going to work their way into a Willy Wonka parody which at this point is very tired but they're able to dodge that I like the mislead I love that that is such like that is great John Viti plotting that many shows would have just settled for yeah it's a Wonka parody of Homer goes to the Bacon Factory we're all gonna like that's an acceptable Simpsons episode that's fine at least even for a first act comedy piece so they set up all this golden ticket thing even though like every this is 2004 family guy and Futurama had both done

their Wonka parodies a couple years earlier and that's just two of the most memorable ones many shows had done Wonka parodies. And what, the new Wonka movie isn't too long after, by new I mean that like, what, 2005 was it? Oh yeah, the Burton one. Charlie and the Chocolate Factory. This Farmer

Billy character, it's interesting because you can buy Farmer Billy's Chaco Bacon at Springfield and Universal, but they kind of conflate the two things see in the earlier episode, pray anything. Homer runs over a bunch of chocolate covered bacon.

And then they combine it with the farmer Billy character here who never mentions chocolate bacon. So while technically it's a fine piece of garbage to eat if you're at Universal, it's not really from an episode. I love the animation of the Porky Pig-like character, eating a pig. A live pig. That is so good.

I'm a big fan of any commercials where the animal is eating the animal, big shades of clucking chicken from SNL back in the day. I'm glad you brought up that chocolate-covered bacon treat from Universal because I really didn't know where Farmer Billy came from. I never bothered looking it up, but it's just a singular appearance in this episode, which is then conflated with an earlier joke. It's strange. Well, I mean, Farmer Billy was a new character when they would have been writing those products in like 08 or 09, right? That is true, yes. And this is where, yes, Homer heads to the Quickie Mart, buys piles and piles of bacon.

And, you know, Matt, as a Canadian, when you first came to an American convenience store, What did you think of our bucket of guns sold by the pound? Did you? What was your first impression? Well, not to that extreme. Just just driving around and like, you know, doing a convention in like Atlanta or even Los Angeles and just seeing gun stores pretty much as common as like a corner store, like a Quikkimart.

I was like, okay. Yep, that's the way that is. Have I ever been in like any store that was like considered a Quickey Mart and actually see guns? No. But it's like, I'm sure those. probably exist. I'm sure like anything, especially in this episode, jokes that seem like ludicrous vaudeville are actually quite still prevalent or even like a reality in big

2025, you know. A war to the wise. If you're in America, the day old guns are a lot cheaper than the fresh guns. And they work just the same. You know, a little staler ammunition, but this but yes, this is where Homer gets the silver ticket. The animation on him kissing Apu is really good, too. like Reardon's having a good time with his last regular Simpsons. And this is where Homer, again, another great Homer line, hmm, judge a pig competition, but I'm no super genius or are I? We head over to the county fair for, the Simpsons have been to county fairs before,

but this has some fun to it. I was at the Seattle equivalent of a county fair recently, which was the Seattle Pride Parade, which was full of the same vendors selling corn dogs and fried dough, except they put rainbow stickers on the fried dough stalls. And they charge you five. dollars more. They say, are you full of hate?

Yes. I like the tagline for this. Who still goes to these? Find out inside. I think the last time I went to my local county fair was probably around this time because it had been a long time. I'd gone there a lot as a kid and I just was wondering, like, what is the experience like when you're an adult?

Turns out, if you can't drink yet and you don't have kids, it's kind of dreary. But the P&E in Vancouver has a great little, I guess you would call it a county fair with an extra you in there, but it's Canadian and pretty nice, pretty classy. I saw the Super Dogs Act. a few years ago. Superdod. Is that like Crypto Bob? Or is this,

now that sounds like I'm making a joke about cryptocurrency. I mean, crypto the super dog. Oh, he's not the only super dog. Some of them can jump

through many a hoop, go through obstacle courses. It's the delight. I recommend it. We have a quick joke about giant vegetables. Now Lisa likes genetically altered vegetables

before she didn't like them in season 13's weekend at Bernsies. An okay joke of Bart burying the giant Brussels under the giant mashed I like tracing the last jokes on record

about certain subjects. This could be the last joke on record about Brussels sprouts being gross because now they're hot. Are they the hot thing now? Is that while I had to be wrapped in bacon? I had the best most delicious Brussels sprouts in my life at like a Vietnamese place. It was just a bunch of roast Brussels sprouts with fish sauce on it and I was inhaling these things. They're great.

And I think all the vegetable humor came from, I mean, kids naturally don't like vegetables because they're attracted to sweets and treats and all the good stuff. But a boomer's growing up, their parents would just buy canned vegetables and then boil those. So vegetables were just mushy, and they were just disgusting. No texture, no flavor, nothing. So Brussels sprouts got a bad name until people learn how to prepare them and grow them. Absolutely. Also, to mark that this is during deep in the George W. Bush administration, we get a very patriotic song.

This song is about a country I love. You may have heard of. It's called America. Hey, I know that country. I could please Ms. Barbara Streisand by spitting on the floor. flag or strangling a bald eagle on the cover of some mag but I love this country to me she has no sins if you don't buy my record then Al-Qaeda wins. And if that singer sounds familiar, the Simpsons has used him before.

He sung the Ribwich song. The man's name is Mark Campbell. But I think he's known best for overdubbing Michael J. Fox in the Johnny Be Good scene in Back to the Future, which always gets a laugh whenever I see that movie again in theaters. Because it's so distracting. He sounds nothing like Michael what you think Michael J. Fox's singing voice would be. It's so distracting. But he's a good singer.

And this is a parody. I mean, they're leaning into Toby Jones. It's more of a parody of Lee Greenwoods. I'm proud to be an American. And on the commentary, Tim Long talks about how they were playing this at his citizenship ceremony because he became a U.S. citizen. And he was thinking, well, this is not America's anthem. And I've had that same thought. I've heard this song played at sporting events instead of the national anthem.

Oh, yeah. No, it was the Lee Greenwood song. And Bobby Jones, you mean Toby Keith. Oh, right, Toby Keith. I think you have our friend Toby Jones. You're right to want to forget Toby Keith. I mean, he's, but that Lee Greenwood song, like the proud to be an American yet, you hear it at baseball, games. It is, I feel like this is also about, oh, but hey, isn't he a great singer that

Lee Greenwood, he's singing about, you know, jingoistic American stuff, but boy, it is a nice song, it is a nice voice. Like, that feels part of the argument here. A problem with this, though, is just the time it takes longer to make Simpsons in South Park. This is a problem here. Like this, I remember when I first watched this episode, and definitely I watched this on the day it aired because even though I was falling out of love with The Simpsons, thanks to episodes like the preceding ones, when I saw it being sold with scenes that parodied Spider-Man 2002 as like, well, I'm watching this. So when I first saw that, I did think to myself, this kind of has been done by South Park a lot. And before this, I looked up the dates on it, actually.

Yeah, not all of their political stuff hits on South Park, but I think their ladder to heaven song is a lot funier than this. And it is making fun of Toby Keith, not Toby Jones, specifically. Yeah, no, November 2002 is a ladder to heaven, which I love that. The guy who sings the song, A Ladder to Heaven, he just repeats 9-11 over and over again as part of his song. And also the April 2003's 100th episode, I'm a little bit country, also is a similar joke about singing patriotic songs that guilt people into buying your record because you don't want Al-Qaeda to win. which obviously I don't think Gian Viti is ripping this off. I think they're all coming to the same place with it, except South Park can produce an episode way faster than The Simpsons can.

Also, what a funny collection of characters holding up that flag. You've got Kent, Lovejoy, Mole Man, Bumblebee Man, C-Captain, Luigi, Sanjay, Old Jewish Man, and Leopold. Yeah, I'm glad you wrote all those done, Henry. I was amused by the sheer variety of characters, especially Leopold being there, because he's such a unique design. I like it kind of represents this rainbow, coalition of American lovers

in Springfield. If Saad Jay and Leopold can agree on things, maybe America's not in such a bad place. Spoilers, it is in a bad place, and it was. Anyway, so yes, we then get a quick bit of a pig beauty contest, which also, they do the Vaseline smile joke that was also in Lisa

Beauty Queen. Again, I don't think they're self ripping off here, but... I think it's the one thing that men fixated on when it came to learning about beauty pageants, the fact that you just rub goop on your teeth. And also, it's a Babe reference to here, right? Just a babe in general? Is there like a

specific thing about Babe? Well, the guy putting the Vaseline on the teeth really looks like the James Cromwell, it looks like a drawing of the James Cromwell character from a babe, at least to me. I mean, there's no that'll do pig or anything else with that. It's just, it's like, it definitely looks like James Cromwell from

Babe, too me. I wouldn't put it past them in 2004. And so Homer is judging, says one is two 80s with his piano tie. That pig looked awesome. I think it was like the spuds McKenzie of pigs, that guy. I do also like the joke of Bart, as he's saying that Lisa is lame. At first, I thought they were going with a hot mom joke,

but instead, when he's referring related to a hot tamale, he's calling himself a hot tamale. That's a good guy. And the idea of a place setting competition is gloriously boring. Yes. Isn't it awesome that Viti found a new boring thing from county fairs to make fun of? And yet there's this is still. a popular competition table-setting competitions.

There's November 2, 2024 New York Times article, all about the competitive world of tablecaping, as they call it. And if you're as clever as Lisa about it, they're just going to shut you down. I looked at some of them. Lisa's could have fit in there at it. But as we see that, oh, also it's funny, four and a half minutes it takes into this episode

for Vidi and Reardon's credits. These are getting to be some long credits. So we see Krusty has a silly one, the whoopi salad was my favorite. And this is where I also felt like this was Viti making an observation about the culture war at the time in that you've got rich Texan here, tearing down a liberal woman for no good reason. I mean, he is an asshole, but this is a different type of jerk he is to Lisa here, right? He tears her down on when she has a good, it's very cute. and I feel like he's just trying to make an example out of her. It feels like these are Harvard guys like Viti is,

pulling from their jerk professors who are coming at them from like a haughtier position of like, you're a play set and thinks it's better than it is. I think the fix is in and Brandeen is taking home the blue ribbon. Oh, yeah, you're right. Cletus is already siding with him in the audience there, isn't he? Poor, poor Lisa. And I think this is good too.

like this is Vidi remembering characters should care about each other. When Lisa's crying, this is real emotion. We're only one week or two removed from Catch Him if you can where the Homer and Marge hate to their children so, so much. And here this is built on Homer being upset that Lisa is crying. It's like John Vidi remember these characters love each other. So as Homer sees it, this is where he envisions he's going to do something. And I think we've mentioned this too, that this is a season where

Every Simpson is arrested multiple times, and that's threatened this whole episode, too. I was wondering that because I was like, I wonder if this was a theme of this season because just, just like, hey, over, you can't do this because you have priors. I was like, that's amazing. I guess something else happened or maybe it's just a throwaway gag. But I really liked it because I was like, how are we going to get to superhero? So I thought it was a funny way to get to it easily. And Wiggum seems pretty lenient because he warns one more felony assault and you're going

down the other felony assaults oh well but this one i also love how they're making jokes about their thought balloons now too the wigum knows he's in a thought balloon which means he can fit in it now and he's lost a little weight so here's where the parody begins and in the ramy film peter parker has a homemade costume for his first appearance at the wrestling against bonesaw but that is ramy pulling directly from the very first spider-man comic in the lee and co-origin. He also wears a homemade costume to wrestle Crusher Hogan to win big. And I mean, this was like, Matt, when you saw Randy Savage in a Spider-Man movie, I mean, you probably were like me and pretty. You couldn't be more excited in that moment. I mean, I know Randy Savage was

going off the deep end a little bit and WCW, like his gimmick was just getting crazier and crazier. And Bonesaw just seemed like an extension of it. But yeah, that remains an iconic scene nowadays for a variety of reasons. But as soon as the sequence started with Homer designing the costume, just like the camera work is just, it was just so ramy in how that sequence was done in Spider-Man.

Like, it wasn't just like a little bit of a parody. Like, oh, it kind of looks like it. No, like they stayed really, really true to it. And I did appreciate it. And what you were saying earlier about South Park doing jokes a lot faster, I was like, this is what, two years after the original Spider-Man movie came out?

And I thought, wow, they got to this joke quick for Old Simpsons I was like wow this is timely this is fresh feeling almost yeah I guess in this period of the show I think they're a little quicker now but usually around two years when you would start seeing

references to things in the John Viti written Cape Fear like it was two years after K or 18 months maybe that was the closest they could get it then for and that one is more of a direct parody than this is but Homer gets outfitted and he is going

make his first appearance as Pie Man, as he does a dangerous thing, which is throwing a pie at a person who has two revolvers in their hands, which, I wouldn't to do that myself. A mysterious stranger arrives in our next clip. Oh, there, there, little darling.

Dry those tears. With this. Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha. Hold it right there. You've had. It hurt your last feeling! Ah! We all know Pi R squared, but today, Pi R justice, and I welcome him.

Thank you, Mysterious Stranger. Where did he go? Where were you, homie? You missed all the excitement! Shall we ever see Springfield's costumed protector again? Oh, I have a funny feeling we will. Wherever people are mistreated, the pieman will strike. He-he-he-he-he-he-he-he. I guess that's kind of a Fleischer-Superman riff there.

The theme music playing in the shadow of him kind of thing. That's what it reminded me of anyway, which we've also covered on our What a Cartoon podcast. Look at it in the archives, folks. But, yeah, also, here's Simpsons pulling from themselves again. I don't blame it again. it's how you write bad comic book dialogue thanks mysterious stranger that's what millhouse says when he's playing fallout boy in his origin story radioactive bad yeah i guess there is pulling from the well of generic comic book dialogue and a nice a nice math grab from drederick tatum a very simple math formula but still yeah i love that i love and i love how mel is perfectly there to be like will we ever see couldn't be bigger in this this like this is the end of a superhero origin. It's so perfect like Homer, where were you during all of this?

And it should be noted the second you see him in his costume, it's Homer. Everybody would know it's Homer. It's so obvious. It makes it 10 times funnier when Marge will point it out later. I just love that. So here we are. Now Homer is Pieman or he's made his first appearance. We come back from commercial break. Lisa is drawing her favorite character. It is weird. Homer. Limer's line. I mean, it's kind of funny, but not when Lisa draws it. Why should he think about how Lisa draws his package? Yeah, that's a weird.

Then he learns that Bart is in trouble, too. I love this line, too. What you doing, sweetie? I'm drawing a picture of my newest hero. Pie, man. Gee, I thought I had a bigger package than that. That's really sweet, honey. Oh.

Hey, let's turn that frown upside down. Oh, oh, Dad. I feel like I'm going to throw up. What's wrong, son? Comic book guy made me pay for these comics. He said I smudged, but I didn't even touch him. Richy Rich incorporates in Delaware. Easy-to-believe tales.

Supergirl versus the glass ceiling? The green listener? He was just trying to unload these crappy comics on a helpless kid. Somebody ought to take him down a pick. Or should I say down a pie? No, I think the expression is peg. Maybe you're right, Lisa. Maybe your pie.

Pie be your pie. Pie be your pie. That thing about holding Bart upside down does feel like a classic homer activity. Classic Homer behavior. It's not so wacky or so super violent or cartoonie. It's just something that he would naturally think to do. And then the results are just, I feel sick.

Put me down. He's trying to have fun. And Bart's like, please stop. I'm saying. I love his shift into Pie Be Your Pie. After everything is pie. This bit about bad comics. Like these are the ones you'd never buy on this show,

Especially, like Ritchie Rich, nobody wants Ritchie Rich, but especially Bible comics, those were like the, you couldn't give those away. It's also funny on the commentary hearing Al Jean, he really is like a one of us type deal in that he's talking about on the commentary that he was reading like the website super dickery and the Joker pulling a boner comic that went viral like over 10 years ago too. If you guys remember on the internet back when Twitter was fun

or Tumblr was a thing, Joker's like, oh, Joker pulls another. boner from like an old 50s company. I'll show them how many boners I can make. And I'm sad to report that Superdickery not online anymore. I assume that somebody bought it. Some tragic tale happened to it, but I do remember going there too. I love Superdickery because it was pulling from a classic trick for selling comics at DC.

Back then was they put on the cover a thing that technically happens in the comic of like Superman has to eat a ton of food or Superman is going to let Jimmy over. Olson drown. And the character goes like, why are you doing this? And Superman goes like, it's your own fault or whatever. And then you buy the comic to see why he's doing it. But in a vacuum, Superman just looks like a huge dick, as the website was called. I think my favorite one was Superman denying everyone water. No one gets a drop. And it was another thing I liked on the commentary. Al Jean was talking about how when they had Stan Lee in to record, he said to Stanley like it was 02 right before the Spider-Man movie came out and Al Jean said I've been

waiting my whole life to see a Spider-Man movie and Stanley replied to him like me too I've been waiting too coming up it's another Simpsons followed by a new Malcolm and arrested the season finale's of the OC and 24 you're not a time and the most radical transformations in TV history on the swan plus the simpsons are all new all month long it's all leading up to the event everyone will be watching when one new superstar will be born on american idol he's going to blow america away it all happens this may only on box it's henry gilbert your friendly neighborhood pieman here with a big thank you to our guest this week matt mcm he's back one of our favorite folks from YouTube talking about video games with a ton of history on what happened both on video games and on movies and we love talking with him about spider-man because he's a big spider-man fan just like myself we've even got some stuff with him in the back catalog talking about the spider-man movies we always love having Matt on and you should be checking out all the cool stuff he does thank you so much Matt and you know we're only able to do cool stuff with Matt McMussels on this podcast because of supporters at patreon.com slash talking simpsons.

subscribers there get early an ad-free podcast. You don't have to hear ads like this one or the other ones in the podcast if you are a patron there. And that five bucks a month also gets you exclusive podcasts. Every month we cover Futurama and King of the Hill just like the Simpsons, but only for our patrons. You get to hear Talking Futurama and Talk King of Hill each month. We're in Comedy Central years of Futurama and season four of King of the Hill. And the entire back catalog is there too for that five bucks, 200 plus podcasts of us covering Futurama, King of the Hill. And also the critic, Mission Hill, and, Batman the animated series. They all get talked about in-depth and only for our $5 a month float. So sign up today at patreon.com slash talking Simpsons to get all the cool stuff you're missing. But if you old-time liberals would like something even better, then you need to sign up at a $10 level at patreon.com slash Talking Simpsons because they get all those ad-free bonuses and they also get basically three extra podcasts a month. That's our What a Cartoon Movie Podcasts, where for four, five, or even six hours, we go into an animated feature films, history, and production just as in depth as we do an episode of The Simpsons.

We are just about to wrap up our summer of the aughts Disney films. We're talking about an extremely goofy movie, Lilo and Stitch, Atlantis, The Lost Empire, and most recently we're talking about Treasure Planet at the end of this month. All of them have very interesting productions, and a lot of cool stuff that folks don't know about them and that we have a lot of fun deconstructing when we chat about it. So those are just our most recent ones, two out of years and years of what a cartoon movies we've been covering. We've covered so many, it's hard to name them all. But we've done tons of studio jibly films.

We've done tons of Disney. We've covered a lot of superhero stuff too, not just the Batman animated series films, several of those, but also Spider-Man into the Spider-Verse. So if you like all this Spider-Man talk, we covered the most Spider-Many movie of all time up until that point. And you can hear about all of that. if you sign up at patreon.com slash talking Simpsons at the $10 level and you get all the other ad-free bonuses too. Once more, it's easy to sign up, Patreon.com slash talking Simpsons.

And I had waited my entire life for a Spider-Ban movie. Now, that was ages 7 to 19, but it still counts. I waited, too. Now there's too many Spider-Man movies. There's too many of every movie. Not yet enough Fantastic Four movies. Or maybe there are. We're going to find out in the future.

Fifth time's the charm. Fifth time. Yes, this is where we have the lengthy Spider-Man costume designing sequence parody as Homer builds his suit. And it feels like it's a good, why I like about it is a parody too in the film. You see Toby McGuire's Peter Parker designing his costume. Somehow he built a millions of dollar piece of costuming that no poor college student like Peter Parker could possibly build. And Homer the same somehow made himself a perfect costume, too.

Well, with this whole underwear over the pants thing, I think Homer is a big fan of Quailman. I am so glad Superman's got his underwear over the pants again. Yeah. I miss those briefs. I missed him. And hey, here's a fun comic book fact in the Spider-Man. 2002 sequence of drawing the hand that draws his beloved

comic book artist Phil Imanez. He's the artist drawing that there. He's the guy who drew the famous Spider-Man Obama cover. That was such a big hit in 2008. Remember that one, guys? Did it go up in value? Like all comics? Oh, sure. They only printed

like 8 million of them. I'm sure. See, doesn't that feel so simple now that like, while running for president, Barack Obama said, I've read Spider-Man comics as a kid, and everybody went crazy for it. It was such a simple time. Though, you know, the editing on this does feel slightly weird to me.

It feels like they used the Spider-Man one score or something, and then they had to, like, temp it back in. Like, there's like a lightning bolt with no sound effect or something. I don't know. Maybe this is me reading too much into it, but it feels the soundtrack is strange on it. But Elfman wrote Simpson's theme song and the Spider-Man score. So they were hitting another connection. As Homer flexes in the mirror, too, with his new girdle-supported physique,

it does also remind me, too, of like, that Toby McGuire, of course, looks great with his shirt off for his, like, big muscle shot in the movie. But that is not an acceptable level of buff for a superhero movie anymore. That's like what you're supposed to look like when you're a nerd in superhero movies, not actually Spider-Man. So this is where Pieman makes his first proper appearance. This magazine you sold me isn't Fantastic Four. It's fantastic floor!

My family can't put in floors. We rent. Sorry, no refunds. Oh, brother, why do we get all the weirdos here at the comic book store? Comic book guy, don't do the crime if you can't do the key lime! How could this be any more humiliating? Hello, I'm Michelle Nichols of Star Trek. Oh, you finally accepted my invitation for tea and cheese.

for tea and chichette. Oh, listen, I said it to Shatner and I'm saying it to you. There is no way I'm going to be dating a man with pie on his face. Nicholnshell Nichols, only 71 when this aired. Bob, you just recently went through all of the Star Trek's, didn't you?

Yeah, and I guess this is a roundabout, Shatner, fat joke because the girdles are active in the last couple of movies. Yes. Well, because they redesigned the entire, like, uniforms of the federal right to fit around the many needs of girdles it's like elderly active wear in the later movies and yet in star trek five she's still showing she can do that fan dance she's got it bob i was shocked at your rankings of well not shocked not that shock but five you had five over four

i think i shocked america you know what like i said on blue sky i didn't grow up with four i found a tacky and annoying and i think i just enjoy the elderly camping trip in five it's so much fun that's all i want to see honestly. Less of them breaking boom boxes, more of them singing row, row, row your boat. Absolutely, yes. I'm down for that. To put it in perspective, the actors were in their like early 60s for Star Trek 6, which is like Tom Cruise, I think is older than Nichols was in Star Trek 6 now. I also love the action. The pose on Homer or as Pie Man in the doorway. I love the framing of his pie hand is under his cape and then it pops out to get it. Like, that's great. That's great, like posing and in boarding. I really like that. And this is where he leaves behind his pie tin, which again, Spider-Man reference.

Spider-Man leaves behind notes that say, you know, he's webbed up some bank robber and it says, Your Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man, which I looked into a history of this that that was in like ads all through like the 40s, 50s and 60s. Like, your friendly neighborhood Texaco station would be the thing. So then Spider-Man, an amazing number 17, first calls himself your friendly neighborhood Spider-Man. And now he pretty much just owns that label. Yeah, like the most recent cartoon was even called that. If I might be a stickler about Pye Man's design, there's one element that annoys me. And it's a similar element to how Homer looks in the episode Married to the Mob.

Or sorry, mayor to the mob. I apologize, profusely. It's the fact that his eyes need to be separated by a strip of something. And his eyes are not separated in his non-mass design. so it just looks a little weird. They feel the need to separate his eyes when they're behind the Pitan, and I don't think they should. The two eyes together would be, it would be more consistent with how eyes are in the world. Yeah, like ever since Nina pointed that out about his strip of flesh with sunglasses, it's hard to not notice it.

Am I being unfair, yes, but this is the place where we can voice these complaints safely. This is where we get the fist-faced joke, which again, listeners keep listening, you'll find out who fist-face is. this is a great bit. I feel like Adam West, Batman, had this a ton, but millions of Superman stories and comics and even the Christopher Reeves movies had of, like, Lois Lane saying, boy, Superman sure is attractive. And Clark Kent's saying like, oh, really?

Oh, is that like, but Homer, not smart enough to do these jokes that he instantly is offended of like, Ned. Also, like, you'd find his feeling extremely hot. Like, that's too hot for TV. This was a extra horny episode I kind of found from the, kiss with Apu and the Quiky Mart to like all the March stuff pretty orny I was kind of shocked. You know they are

pulling from the Spider-Man 2002 the sexiness of Toby and Kirsten Dunst like that was a huge selling point of that movie like that's why people still love it today or also why the Spider-Man Reddit is a weird place where every post is mainly about how Spider-Man should

only be with Mary Jane and I feel like it's partially and like hey I love Mary Jane and Peter Parker together too but I do think it's people who grew up with only the movie first who thinks it should always be Peter and MJ and our man when anything else happens. Right. Yeah, I agree. This is a controversial topic in the Spider-Man world. Are you a Black Cat? I never, I like Peter with Felicia, but Black Cat is like, she's got her own stuff going on. She's not going to settle down with Peter. Yeah, it's always

fun when Black Cat shows up. There's flirtations, of course, but I'm kind of the same opinion of you. It's like always great when it's Mary Jane, but I don't mind another storyline or movie or whatever it is where we take a break from Mary Jane because it can't just be the same character all the time. And hopefully the next Spider-Man movie has minimal romance so we can have a break from it. So when it does happen again, it like means a little bit more and like it feels a bit more fresh and see where it goes from there. So this is where Kent Brockman pipes in with just pie, like let a grade start to the clip. The second reference to the mathematical concept of pie in this episode, you got to do it. There's

so many great little bits in here as showing that the bit of them showing that he had pied crusty for this is for your show's slight declining quality over the years I mean that's got to be a bit self-referential right

oh yes yes I have to imagine this episode also like this is another thing that made it feel political to me like this feels in the shadow of bowling for Columbi not just because Michael Moore has been on the Simpsons this very season this broadcast season but also like here it is them trading in guns for pies for guns like more gun content here and another

great joke when wiggum is sadly gets in the car to listen to the siren and giggles at it Kent Kent's reaction to that is so great that's good footage like well it's him saying why do we put that on TV why was a joke part of our broadcast and then here comes another great bit that I think VD really paid attention to what happens in superhero movies which is there is the like the entrapment sequence. Like, this is in Batman movies, they're in Spider-Man movies, the scene of like, oh, this is where the cops are going to spring their trap on the superhero scene, and they have it in this episode, too.

But first we get patches and poor Violet looking worse than ever, as one is dying of whooping cough as they're thrown, tossed away here. This is where the trap is set. Okay, Lou, the minute Pieman shows up, we spring our trap. Hey, what do you got against this pie guy anyway? He's giving jerks their comeuppance. Yeah, but he's skipping the hardest part of being a cop. Bike safety lectures.

Oh, come on, cheap. No one ever wants to hear about the importance of pants clips, do they? Yeah, but... That's why Pie Man is going down. Thanks to this clinic, we will no longer be terrorized by the spectacle of women aging naturally. Not so fast. Old time, liberal.

Get him. My man. Oh, it's a trap. No trap can hold Homer Simpson, but I'm not Homer Simpson. I'm the pieman. Homer Simpson away. I mean, the pie man. Oh, I'm going to say I was legit just drinking some seltzer water when we'll no longer be terrorized by naturally aging women.

And I snorted it really hard, the water I was drinking. I just so out of nowhere, so true in modern society back then, even now. hit really hard. And it being delivered by Quimby is amazing, too. Amazing choice for that line to be given to that character. The dramatic cut to Homer's face when he says, old time, liberal. The politics of Pie Man,

and this whole sequence, like, the way Lenny from the audience is like, no, pie man, it's a trap. Like, this is such a great, this is comic book moments here. It's well observed. Yeah, I love the utility his pies have in this scene because he uses one of the pies as a projectile

to break the pulley that's holding, up the scaffolding of the billboard and swings that over to a fire escape? Yeah, they point out on the commentary that Homer could never physically do this in a regular episode, but for this plot line, he basically can swing as good as Spider-Man between buildings, for one joke. And also, he gets shot. Homer gets hit with a bullet and shot, like, in his arm. To try to make more connections to Spider-Man as a parody, Spider-Man does get his left arm

injured, and that is partially what reveals his secret identity to Norman Osborne. So I'm saying, oh, is that a connection? Like, no, this isn't really the same kind of scene, but it's similar, as all as I'm saying. Maybe I'm just so Spider-Man-pilled, like, I considered like, oh, should I, I could, like, while doing my workout on the treadmill, I could just re-watch Spider-Man 1 to get it in my head again. I was like, no, I can just close my eyes and replay Spider-Man 1 in front of me at all times anyway. Folks, Henry is wearing a Spider-Man t-shirt right now. I pulled it out of my collection.

I only have so many Spider-Man shirts and choose from. Yes, I will say that's also true most days that we record. Yes. I'm like, which one is this? Homer is on the run, getting shot, and Marge is about to be trampled by a group of characters and like, I'm not being trampled. What gives?

Marge is upset. She wasn't trampled. And this is where the other big Spider-Man parody is, as Marge and Homer or Pie Man, kiss upside down. Listen, I'm married. I'm looking up your nose, but I feel like I'm staring. That was so excited, yet familiar.

I cope with lemon. No, no, no. Coke with lemon. How fun. Yes, Coca-Cola with Lemon Corner, folks. If you want to know about this short-lived soft drink, introduced in 2001 to compete with Pepsi Twist. Remember Pepsi Twist, everybody? Nobody?

Yeah. No one's responding to me. The call freeze. Well, it was discontinued. Sorry, discontinued in 2005. You can still get it from freestyle machines. And apparently Pepsi Twist lasted until 2006. So the fascination with adding lemon to sodas very short-lived.

And hearing this joke made me thirsty for a Coke with lemon. I could just make my own by buying a lemon, but still. It's funny to think that they're like, who needs to waste the time of cutting a wedge of lemon for yourself? Like, we'll put it in the flavoring for the soda. Did lemony sodas travel up north for you back then, Matt? Back then, no, I don't remember them at all. Like, you know, in the last five, maybe 10 years, like, yeah, you'd see them more commonly.

But specialized drinks and confectionaries took a long. time to get to Canada. Like, you know, I think we had just golden Oreos up until 2010. Like, that was the only type of Oreo, like other type of Oreo. Then we got all the crazy ones in the years after. And this is a good bit of observing observational comedy about the upside down kiss, which is like, it's very sexy in the moment. It's, uh, it's, it's a very iconic like kiss scene. But just as Marge points out like, oh, I'm staring up your nose as I kiss you upside down. Like, this is and recent years like kirsten dunce did an interview or several interviews i've seen source where she's like talks about how miserable the actual like filming of it because like

she's like entirely wet so is toby maguire like they're just being hosed down with giant rain drops the entire time and she mentioned that like toby because he's upside down he actually has like stuff shoved in his nose so he doesn't literally drown and waterborne himself yeah they're water-boring Toby McGuire. Too late, I say. I read about that too where Toby's talking about it's like, yeah, I got all this water up my nose. She's kissing me. All my orifices are blocked. Literally can't breathe during all these takes. The worst kiss ever. It's like ironic punishment. It's being waterboarded by Kirsten Dunst's kisses. I have been to that alleyway. It's not in New York City. It's in the fake New York of the Warner

Brothers Studio Lod. I got to see it on this Warner Brothers studio tour. Also, fun trivia. It's the same fake New York alley where Prince is photographed for the album cover for Purple Rain. And one other story about that iconic kiss scene I learned recently. I pulled up the MTV Movie Awards that year where it won Best Kiss. And for a different thing, I thought, because Kirsten Dunst kind of throws shade at Daredevil for stealing a kiss, a rainy kiss scene in the same year from Spider-Man. but also what's funny is

here's some star snoop guys Kirsten Dunst had dated Toby McGuire during the production but by 03 she's dating Jake Gyllenhaal and at the MTV Movie Award she's there on a date like her date there is Jake

and so when she wins best kiss for a kiss with her ex she then accepts the award and says but you know what my real best kiss is with you Jake and she points at him in the audience and the camera catch. Star Snoop there.

Spider-Man actors always date their love interest. It's happened with all three live-action Spider-Man. Not Spider-verse, though. I don't think that's happening. What's his face married to Zendaya yet? Is that on the horizon? I think they're engaged. Yeah.

This is where Marge walks away. Marge also is they're drawing her almost as wet as Kirsten Dunst is in that scene. At least her hair is flopped a little bit. And you need the joke at the end of the episode for Marge to admit like, yeah, obviously it's Homer. Like she's here trying to pretend she doesn't know it's Homer, but she knows she is not actually cheating on her husband. Right. Then we cut to another scene that feels very like pulled from most superhero movies of like, ooh, the dangerous, like the guy comes back after the superhero back in his layer, but he's all beat up kind of sequence.

This is extremely violent. I'm glad that digging around in his arm with a knife is done off screen. but his narration gives you goosebumps. It does. Yeah, I didn't clip that one because the sound designed it is too gross for me. I was like, I don't want to treat the listeners to that. I mean, but in superhero movies, they always like dig out. Like, Punisher does this all the time of pulling out his own bullets.

And in a joke here, they're like, oh, no, wait. Like you would black out the second you stabbed yourself to dig around for it. But we're not all as tough as the Punisher. So this is where Lisa confronts him. And again, I love he's like, Pye Man is. not your father, little girl, I murdered your father. That took me out, very funny.

It's great that Lisa makes it clear. She's like, obviously, your pie man, we'd be getting his mail. Yeah, and this is where we... We're tracing the last jokes about things. So we have the last Brussels Sprouts joke. I think this is the last publisher's clearinghouse joke ever allowed on television. Oh, yes. You may already be a winner. You're right. Yeah, I would guess I was still getting

mail like that in 2004, but the scams had changed by then, right? I think so. This is where we also get another this is an extremely direct Batman 66 parody it's going to the Batcave Homer even in his pie cave has a real

to real computer just like the Bat computer in the Adam West Batman show he blindfolds her to go there which like Adam West always did for guests of the Batcave in Batman as well but this is where Lisa convinces Homer and seemingly the episode

ends in Acts 2 Let's it. One more step. Welcome to my secret lair. Dad, this is the basement. Here's the iced tea I left down here this afternoon. So it would seem. Anywho, how about this is all a pretty big surprise, huh?

Mild-mannered Homer Simpson. You're not mild-mannered. You're often liquored up and rude. Honorable men can differ. Now, what brings you down here? I want you to stop this, Dad, before you get killed. All right. All right, I'll stop.

What'll I do with these pies? Well, I know one thing you could do. I was in so deep I forgot pies were food. Like that feels like there should be the outro music there. Like, oh, that's the end of the episode. Homer seemingly has changed his ways and listened to Lisa as he eats a bunch of pie with her. But then we see, this feels like John Vitti is reminding the writers, Mr. Burns is funny.

and he should be in the show more. I welcome the appearance of Burns, although Henry, I'd like to know if you agree with me on this. This might not be as familiar to Matt. But the third act feels a lot like Homer versus Dignity in which Homer is now working for Burns, doing humiliating tasks for him until he eventually turns on him. Bob, you're right.

I didn't notice that, but now you mentioned it, yes. It is just Burns takes over Homer. And it even is set up with like, I think it's past even similarly with Lenny and Carl at the cafeteria. is a plot beat of it too. Yes. Throw this pudding at Lenny,

one of the things that Homer has to do, but he's a war hero. That episode is funny, actually. I think we discussed this on our 10th anniversary podcast. That's the one that we kind of turned around on, except for the one infamous joke that's just taken up a lot of space in that episode. The panda sequence. Yeah, the panda sequence.

Yeah. This is kind of similar to that. Well, you're right, especially that once Burns gets into this. Though, I mean, Burns is the perfect, like, he's going to be the villain. This is why Burns should have been. say this a million times, but Burns should have been the villain of the Simpsons movie. It makes sense. Burns is the villain of Simpsons.

And of course he's going to be the Lex Luther of this or the Joker of this or whatever. Again, this is one year before Batman begins. This is before superhero movies like change in a big way. This is just at the start of the Outs superhero movie like boom here.

But yes, Homer is taunted by Burns. You know another bit I love that when he looks at his photos of Bart and Lisa to see what to do, Bart is just his Season 1 merchandise drawing of the slingshot in first person. It's so good.

The slingshot to camera, it's like the artist took the official like merchandise guide from season one and just drew that part as his photograph. And like even in universe, like I took a portrait of Bart about to shoot me in the eye with a slingshot. Yes. It's his angel and devil except it's

Lisa and Bart. Also that he just keeps a pie at his workstation too. So, but this is where Homer isn't sure what to do, and he then starts to go insane as food talks to him. Eat faster, faster, swallow on your own time. Ow, won't someone help us? Who will stand up for calling Lenny? Hey, Homer, throw me at Mr. Burns. Now, throw me.

I'm old and stale. I might just kill him. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. Don't do it, Homer. You made a promise to Lisa. When do I listen to cakes? Tell you what, Homer? You make one last hit, then you're out of the business forever.

Lisa would understand. You're all so wise. I wish I could eat each and every one of you. We wish you could eat us, too. Hank Azaria is so good this season with so many things that sound like he just made it up. Like that, I wish you could eat us too. They are so into writing, Phyllis Dillow jokes for Agnes Skinner, they also write them for talking pies.

Yeah, you're right. It's funny that you have Phyllis Diller. Agnes becomes Phyllis Diller at some point. And Wiggum is Edward G. Robinson, but also these pies are imitating those people, too. And also I love the wussy, the underdog voice actor, I guess is what it sounds like. Wally Cox? Maybe it's a Wally Cox type of thing, but just like a general wuss being the cake that Homer would never listen to a cake. This is where Burns, Homer has finally been convinced by his.

psychotic vision of pies and we also I love on the commentary they are shocked at like wow we have a lot of nude men in this shot we would never get away with this many butts

is kind of what they're saying there and Burns is sold off all their clothes again Burns has to be as petty and cruel as possible in this last half of the show

and also Smithers hasn't been this evil since the arcade game this is where pie man runs in i've run out of pie related puns he says as he pies mr burns and runs off and again this credit to the animation team such a great idea of like we're following where pie man is running around on the security monitors that have been like a fact of mr burns almost from the beginning and here we get to just see homer run to each one like it's great layout it's great animation yeah he

stops for a few snacks and then a nap and then it turns out he's napping behind them That was a great guy. You're so-called Messiah. Such a great guy. But sir, I... You know what? I definitely don't think they knew what the plot of Spider-Man 2 was going to be when they were writing it. But like an unconscious pieman being delivered to a villain who's going to unmask him.

Like, this is Spider-Man being delivered to Harry Osborne by Dr. Octopus in Spider-Man 2. Like, it feels similar to me. But obviously, this is a month before. for Spider-Man 2 came out, so I don't think it's an intentional reference at all. But that's also when Harry Osborne unmasks him. Though that is like the unmasked Spider-Man movie, because he gets unmasked like eight times in that movie.

Yeah, something like that. Here's a slight tangent into my Spider-Man movie beefs. I understand that when you hire famous, attractive men to play Peter Parker and Spider-Man, you want to see their face emoting and doing things. So you have to take a mask off of them. But Spider-Man has a secret identity for a reason, and when you take his mask off, it kind of changes a lot of things for a character.

And so him constantly unmasking to have funny or more interesting stuff happen in scenes for the actor. I fear it sells out Spider-Man's character. It was, especially in the Garfield movie, the first Andrew Garfield one, he gets amassed so much, even for himself to be like, oh, I don't want to scare this kid, mask off. Hey, come out. I hate how much he's unmasked. I feel like, so as an outsider to this, I feel like every Spider-Man movie should have the hunk cut. In the hump cut, you see their faces constantly.

But in the true comic fan cut, they add the CGI mask in every scene. I think the ultimate compromise is like at the end of Spider-Man 1 where it looks so awesome when he has a battle-damaged mask, a real mask on, and you can see half of his face. And you could say that any other random stranger is like, oh, he's a white guy with brown hair. That doesn't mean much. So that's still there. So it's a beef I have with the Tom Holland movies because it's always a CGI mask. It always just like blips off because it's nanotech, and there's just no physicality, real-world textures there.

So, you know, he always looks way cooler with a battle damage mask. Like every iconic Spider-Man, like, you know, vicious battle with a villain where he's actually getting trounced, it looks really great. And they don't do it anymore. One of the greatest scenes of the MCU to me is the magic mask. Like many characters just have to have a mask that just can be clicked on and off. Yeah. mainly to give options to the producer, Kevin Feige, to be like, oh, you know what, I do want a mask on in this scene.

Now the mask needs to be off, like, Ant Man in the third Ant Man movie, which is not good. He has to, like, magically put his mask on and off again for him to go like, Cassie, wait, then mask goes back on. And I'm like shouting to myself in the theater like, no, you set up. He has to always have his mask on when he uses his powers because he would die if he doesn't. Why did you forget this? It's for the viewers who forget who plays Ant-Man. They're like, oh, it's right.

Okay, Paul Rudd, put it back on. I'm ready to watch more. That's why I'm hoping the rumors are true that Tom Holland is too busy filming the new Christopher Nolan movie. Like, he's not available for a lot of the stuff in the next Spider-Man movie. And they're going to just have to have him have a digital character, the whole movie. And so that's why, oh, then he'll keep his mask on a lot more because Tom Holland is simply unavailable for many scenes.

So this is where we have a shocking cliffhanger ending as Pye Man. is taken into the employee prison that they just have in the power plant. He's shackled to the wall, classic prison style. And it's a great, like, it actually is played for drama of like he's going to unmask him. Oh, no, which I wonder if there was ever a beat in the script, and there's no original script out there. I went looking for it, unfortunately. But it feels like there would have been a joke of him taking his mask off and then saying, who the devil are you?

And then Smithers explains it. It's been long enough. They've had enough adventures. But this is where Pye Man is unmasked. Now, let's see what we have here. Simpson, you rue the day you took that pint in, poked holes for eyes, and attached a rubber band around the back. It's not a rubber band, it's a scrunchy.

Silence! So I'll trap you into Sue it. Come my murderous gerbils and hamsters. Wait, I have a better idea. You'll work for me now. I already work for you. In addition to working in your noble capacity at the plant, you will also serve as my personal hitman.

Do I get two paychecks? No. Yes, this is him becoming basically a prank monkey. You're right, Bob. This is similar layout here, same evil mess. And though Smithers and Burns, they're in agreement on this one. Smithers becomes a Batman 66 villain sidekick here. Yeah, he's finally embracing Mr. Burns' cartoonish super villainy at this point in his life.

He should have on a shirt that says thug number one on it. Smithers rubbing his hands with glee, like right outside the cage of the bloodthirsty gerbils was great. Yeah, how many humans has Burns fed to these gerbils and hamsters? How many people has he killed at this point? Homer then is given his first assignment to pie him. himself. On the deleted scenes commentary, Al Jean even admits like, yeah, it's obvious that it's going to be pying himself. Like, we played this too long. It's too clear who he's going to pie. This is where Burns tells him it's cobblering time with, hey, that, learn the whole history

of that on our Fantastic Four podcast. Oh, I should admit. Fuck, I forgot a Fantastic Four trivia from the episode earlier. When Millhouse is talking about the Fantastic Floor comic, Al Jean says it's on the commentary and I checked it for myself. He's right. It is a stealth pair of the cover to the 1961 issue of Fantastic Four number two. The Fantastic Four Number two cover is all of them fighting the Cree, or sorry, the

Scrolls. It's the first appearance of the scrolls, but it's them in like a room with a floor on the cover of the Jack Kirby thing. It's a floor and a wall against it. And so the cover that Millhouse holds up a fantastic floor is what the cover of issue two would be

if you took every character out of it and it's just a floor and a wall. Gotcha. it is a very clever stealth comic book reference there but hey i mentioned a deleted scene and this is the one big deleted scene from the episode that is when homer is told to pie himself this is where we get the most to direct to batman 66 reference there would have been in the episode

come on it's cobblering time could it be the people's avenger caught between a rock and a pie plate tune in next week same pie time same pie channel smithers get him out of here what's this me getting thrown out of the room never to be seen again now there's an announcer who is like literally in the room with him who gets thrown out oh man I wasn't on board with that until it was revealed that it's just a person in the room with them I kind of wish yeah I wish just having a same bat time same bad channel reference that's oh also the camera

tilts as the guy is saying these lines and then goes back to straight on after Burns shouts in there. That was a good joke. I kind of wish they'd kept that one in there. But yeah, Burns knowing it's cobblering time and sending Homer on his way, this is where I wonder, did Viti put this in himself or did Al Jean just tell him like, hey, we have to have at least one Homer and Margin bed scene per episode this season. It's just a classic fallback. And I think some of these older writers are trained to go back to bed, see what's up, checking with the characters. Homer explains to her another thing that only Pie Man could know

and this is a great bit from Superman comics where he's like, no, see, here's, I have a photo to prove it and it's like a photo of Clark Ken and Superman together except it's said his little helper wearing a pie mask. This also reminded me of a thing from Spider-Man too where Aunt May basically gives a speech

that is like, there's a hero in all of us which is her just saying to you like, hey Peter I know you're Spider-Man she's like you know what if I could talk to Spider-Man I'd say this too yeah she's like Peter why do we keep playing this sick game in between us you should tell your friend Spider-Man

that he's got a lot of nice friends who really like him and it's also great that Marge it's a little bit of Mr. Plow as well that Marge has turned on and this is about the sexuality of Marge she's too turned on to care about a secret identity It's good mouthful acting too

This is where we get a quick bit of Homer Honestly I love how flatly it's played That's like yes Homer's gonna pie a Girl Scout But they really make you wait for it And it's not funny when it happens either It's just flat An amazing sentence Just cramful of pastry puns

When Byrne says Now pie that brownie fruit cake Yes Oh so good Yeah and then Homer goes like Come on I'm sorry It just does it

and that is played with no camera angles or anything like it's it's laid out in a very funny not funny way too and then burns has to like go out and say like just a minute and like keep the girl scout there for the joke then we have another like crazy burns scene but would be no different from a season four burns joke of burns posing in a baby carriage to talk to him really enjoying this baby play i say i think he's found his new fetish oh yeah it seems like smithers is enjoying it too i would say I wonder, too, if this is a little bit of Get Smart, the handing over the assignment from the chief undercover kind of deal. Oh, sure.

I think that's as big of an influence as Batman 66, like both similar shows with super broad comedy. That's like very, very smart. At first I was thinking, like, oh, is this an Inspector Gadget reference? I was like, no, Inspector Gadget is just ripping off Get Smart. So obviously that's what I would bet John Vee, unless he was paid to do a Inspector Gadget like script at some point adaptation, I would guess he has never seen an episode of Inspector Gadgett.

would hope not. Hey, it's rip off of Get Smart and Clousseau. That's right. You're right. It's the French ripping off both of those things. And then paying Japanese animators to do a way better job than Inspector Gadgett deserves. That's what we haven't done on One of Cartoon yet. And someday, maybe. I've heard rumors in the first episode, or it's like one of those uncredited things like in the first pilot episode of Inspector Gadget, there's like a scene that was animated by Miyazaki people say where it's like him on water skating by like but don't know how true that is but this is where Homer gets his assignment to pie the Dalai Lama which it's also funny that Burns is doing it because of his red Chinese master that's a good guy and it seems

like they thought they could get the Dalai Lama known for having a sense of humor for being very joyful and playful fortunately he said no to this but it's not as embarrassing as when they built an entire episode around Michelle Obama appearing and she said no Ooh, I don't know if you know about this, Matt. It's sad on their parts. I heard something about this, but I don't know the details. Yeah, I mean, they fully animate Michelle Obama there, and it's like, they were like, it's sad and that, to me, it's sad in that, like,

they were so certain they were going to get her. They're like, no, spend millions of dollars animating it. We're definitely going to get her. And it's central to the plot. They can't remove her appearance either, right? No, no. So it's like a tribute to her, but then she said, I won't be there. Can someone else do my voice?

They have a fun little moment there again talking about how they got Richard Gear for the episode where Lisa became a Buddhist and how they talk about how Richard Gear was like, just let me say free Tibet in the episode and you can mock me. And then they go like, but what would people ever make fun of Richard Gear for? I don't know what he's talking about. But yeah, the Dalai Lama here, it's just used as a silly, this could just be the Pope. Like this has nothing to do with Buddhism or his faith or Tibet. that it's just a beloved religious figure above approach that.

But it's also the way to get Lisa back into the episode, like, because he promised her and everything. Because I was thinking about this before the Burns put the hit on the Dalai Lama. I was like, okay, how's it going to get back? Like, is he going to just pie Lisa? Is that who Mr. Burns wants to get rid of? So I thought it was a clever way to get her in there very quickly towards the end. You're right.

It's a good way to pull this back to Homer and Lisa. Like, I think VD didn't forget. This is a Homer Lisa episode at its core. And they're not too mean to the Dalai Lama. It does feel like it was written like a very respectful but still funny role written for him that he turned down. They didn't go back and add mean jokes about him later. Instead, it's the master of accents, Hank Azarea. Well, who else is going to play him?

Yeah, I know. It was a different time, let's say. We see Homer outside as Pye Man contemplating. And again, it's a perfect, like, his like cape, camera wipe, like that is a perfect. comic book. Like, that's a comic book panel right there. I love that shot. Needlessly so, done, but perfect. This is where Lisa

introduces Springfield to the Dalai Lama. As Springfield's youngest Buddhist, I am deeply honored to introduce the Dalai Lama. Oh, I can't do this in front of Lisa? Why does she have to believe in things? You have

no choice. Buy him. Or I'll reveal your secret to the world. And now, please welcome the Elvis of Enlightenment, the lean, serene chanting machine, the Dalai Lama. Greetings, fellow travelers on the path to enlightenment. Please forgive me, talking Lama. No, Piedman, don't do it! Come on, Piedman, hit him!

That's the only reason anyone came to this stupid thing. I like Bart's line there is great because nobody in Springfield would show up to see the Dalai Lama, honestly, except if they thought he was going to be pied. That's the secret of why everybody even showed up. Do we know what that fanfare is? It's just the famous Las Vegas Elvis fanfare? Yeah, yeah. I couldn't place me. It's great.

I do think those are accurate versions of Tibetan Buddhist Dung-chen horns, I'm going to say. That's what the internet called them when I looked it up. I'm sure some listener can fill us in, but what is that song? It's hard to Google, da-da-da-da-da-da. And that Homer thinks this guy is a talking llama is great, too. Though, man, I almost feel like we have another jingle, but I do think, why does she have to believe in things, almost feels equal to take that Lisa's beliefs in the show,

hating the Lisa beliefs and things. We can change them up every now and then. You know, now that I mention it, for new listeners, Here's the clip. We don't play too much. Take that, Lisa's beliefs. That one is nice because the entire family is laughing at her. Yeah.

And it's great. But this episode agrees with Lisa having beliefs instead of hating Lisa's beliefs like other episodes do. Homer is caught between a rock and a pie place, I said, in that deleted scene. And he finds one way out. He unmasks before everybody. Just like so many superhero movies, like the I Am Batman scene from the Dark Night, as would do this a little later. But then, something magical happens in our next clip. I won't.

There's only one way I can escape from this nightmare. Homer Simpson? It was him all along. Homer Simpson is the pieman? Impossible. He's never thrown away a pastry in his life. His brain isn't large enough to juggle too contrast. Personai?

Yeah, and Homer's a dumbass. No offense, Homer. You dumbass. I'm telling you I'm the Pie Man. No, you're not. The Pie Man could fly. And spit acids. And animals did his bidding.

Well, that closes the book on Pine Man. Wait a minute. What? If it wasn't Simpson, who was it? It's gonna be you if you don't shut up. Dad, I think you created a hero that even you couldn't live up to. Yeah. Let's go home, honey.

home, honey. On to my next engagement. Buffalo, New York. Now, you may think that's too crazy the Dalai Lama flying away, but remember, Leonard Nimoy teleports away at the end of Monorail, and this is no more crazy. It's a good way to wrap up the story, but I really wish Mr. Burns

got some comeuppance. That's true. Yeah, you're right. Mr. Burns is just even just a cut to Mr. Burns going like, oh my plan's foiled or something like that right yeah some kind of reaction we don't really get that true i didn't notice that at first but because because all that falls apart is he doesn't have the leverage against homer and that that's it yeah like another pine or would have been nice you know or even the light come up ins of him just being frustrated at this moment taking it on smithers i think yeah this bit also feels look i want everything to be a reference to

old Spider-Man comics. But listeners may or may not know. An Amazing Spider-Man number 12, Spider-Man is unmasked by Dr. Octopus in front of J. Jonah Jameson, Betty Brandt, a cop. And every character goes like, oh, Peter Parker pretended to be Spider-Man. What a loser. Like, he's a fool. Like, nobody believed he was Spider-Man. It's a classic Spider-Man moment. So I wonder if this is referencing that in general or just, you know, this type of thing of The superhero being amassed and nobody believing it was in many comic books and movies and adaptations too. Bruce Wayne, I don't believe it. How could he be Batman?

Batman's not a billionaire. Like, that doesn't really hold up. Or also like Lex Luthor discovers Superman is Clark Kent, but then he's like, no, he would never pretend to be a mild-mannered loser. I don't believe it. That kind of deal. I also love Hank Azari and more great acting there where when Lou Wiggum is trying to dust his hands of the thing, and Lou's like, hey, wait a minute. He's like, what?

And it is Hank talking to himself as Wiggum and Lou. Also, like, the great, you know, two contrasting persona. Actually, this is a real, in that clip, it's like Dalai Lama to Apu, and then Lou to Wiggum, like Azari is most of the voices there. Homer walks away. Nobody believes it. We wrap things up in bed with one final clip here. I know one person who believes you were the Pye Man, homie.

Me, I've known it all along. Was it the kiss? No, it was clearly you in that suit. You'd have to be an idiot not to see it from the start. So, Pye Man, why don't you show me your superpowers? Pye Man? Wherever injustice shows its ugly face, I will be there, but I am the Pye Man.

And wherever Pye Man is, the Cupcake Kid will not be far behind. While you two are up on the roof, why don't you take the leaves out of the gutter? Oh. The Ticket is supposed to be moving on. Love that ending. One, Homer basically treats Marge like Commissioner Gordon and Batman. He leaves, he disappears while she's talking. So that's how that feels.

It's weird that there was never a follow-up pieman episode. It's been 21 years. Apparently, Pie Man featured in the comics, and Nina has told me she has drawn Pie Man in the past for Bongo. But with how popular superheroes are, it's just very strange that there was never another Pie Man. And this is right before the MCU, this episode air. So I feel like now more than ever, we need the return of Pie Man.

Absolutely. And with the Cupcake Kids set up at the end, that's your second episode pitch. right there, right? I couldn't believe that there really was. And on the commentary, they're literally begging Viti to pitch a sequel episode. And that like, so clearly, there is writer interest on the commentary that was recorded like 2012 or 11. And yet, it's been more than a decade since they did the commentary for this and still no proper return of Pieman. I mean, if you look at the Simpsons Wiki, they will mention that, like, he's appeared in like a couch gag or a back

ground thing as far as that goes but it doesn't really count and same with like bongo comics or also i know at the um at the previously mentioned universal studios springfield at the comic book guy corner of android's uh dungeon that's there there is a billboard and pie man's on it too like they have multiple characters in their secondary identities and and homer is there as pie man but but yeah i it's shocking no they never brought pie man back well maybe with um like the whole James Gunn universe and reestablishing D.C., like maybe if that is a success, it will be more perceived.

Oh, superheroes are like, you know, kind of, you know, not that to say that they're back, but like we had a rough period for like the last three or four years. And so maybe they could do it then because if not, when, you know? Yeah, I mean, they never bring back Pye Man, but a decade after this in 2013, Burns becomes a superhero called Fruit Batman in the episode Dark Nightcourt. I think I had not heard.

of that episode that's actually a there are 800 of these you guys will be podcasting until forever I'll learn all about it when the time comes that's uh also you they mentioned that McFarlane toys in 2007 did a pie man and cupcake kid combo toy really there's listings of it on eBay for 70 bucks and I valiantly resisted it as seeing it on but it's the pose of them with the American flag so it's like the shot from this episode too it's a good toy but also I Love that bit. This pose with the American flag thing, like, this goes all the way back to like the first Superman cartoons in the Superman movies, the Christopher Reeves one. He's always holding up the American flag too. But it did feel like a Ramey one reference to me as well. Because right, Matt, the final sequence is him with the flag. I want to say like the first two. Does like the first two end with a shot with him like on like a flag somewhere when there's, there's a spidey's always swinging towards the end? Like I want to say it's multiple movies. You watched them more recently than us. It certainly felt of its, didn't it feel of its time of like post-9-11 patriotism in those Spidey movies?

Sure. I felt a little bit of that leaking in. Well, especially because as hardcore Spider fans know, the original trailer for Spider-Man had the Twin Towers in it. And there was a whole Twin Towers sequence cut from the movie. And if they left that web there, we would have been saved. I saw that teaser trailer when it went. Went to go see Final Fantasy The Spirits Within. That was quite the summer.

Oh, I'm sure I saw that then, too. I saw the Final Fantasy movie in theaters. Nice. Was that a nice nap for you guys? It was really just kind of stewing and disappointment. Yeah, same for me. In the first Spider-Man movie, it's a thing that I feel like they had to put in every Spider-Man movie afterwards of like, hey, this is New York, pal, you mess with one, like, every Spider-Rat movie has.

And even an amazing Spider-Man, when all the New Yorkers, when all the, the crane conductors coordinate. Like, it was very much the same vein. Hey, it is. Spider-Man needs a help, guys. Are we going to help them a what? Bing bong! Like, every time. I never think of Spider-Man as,

like, he is the most famous globally American superhero. I think that's fair to say. But until that movie, I never thought of like Spider-Man plus American flag iconography, but that kind of like married them together, I felt like. I think so.

I thought the most famous superheroes were Monkey D. Luffy and Jesus Christ. Okay, but Spider-Man, right behind that. Number three. Third, yeah, at least. It's also shocking. There's still not been a Pie Man sequel. Maybe someday. Maybe us talking about how this is the best episode of season 15 or one of the best will finally inspire them.

We have John Viti's email address. Let's find a way that he'll never respond to us ever again. Mitch him, Pie Man Forever. Make sure it's a really timely subtitle. And insist we get story by credit, all three of us. That'll make you want to do it even more, I think. Well, Matt McMuzzles, thank you so much for joining us once again. Please let us know where we can find you online and more about what's going on on your YouTube channel.

Yeah, that would be Matt McMussles on the YouTube's on pretty much anything. What's coming up? I just did a video on Ninja Turtles 3, the movie. I'm shocked at the amount of people that said, it's my favorite. You are wrong. I don't even know what to say. Still stunned. Aside from that.

Yeah, just playing some games on my gameplay channel and probably going to be dipping into multiverses what happened with that game, specifically later this month. So be on the lookout for that. But this was an awesome episode and thanks for having me, guys. Like, I didn't know what to expect because I remember seeing Pye Man before, but I don't think I ever actually watched the episode before. So it was an absolute delay. Lots of superhero hijinks like Henry Promise. So you kept your part of the bargain, sir. I'm glad you enjoyed it

And yeah, you've done listeners If you liked all the Spider-Man talk with Matt Not just in our archives, the ones we've had with Matt But also, yeah, your mediocre Spider-Man Is some of my favorite of your sub-series within your YouTube channel Thank you, yeah, it's really fun to make I just wish I had more time to make more of it Because there's still lots of Spider-Man video game goodness to talk about

And I can never seem to find the time Much like Peter Parker himself He's always late to Dr. Conner's glass But thank you very much, Matt Yes, thank you, Matt. No problem, guys. Thanks a lot for having me. Thanks again to Matt McMuzzles for being on the show. Please check out all of his stuff.

And as for us, if you want to support the show and get all the episodes ad-free, go to patreon.com slash Talking Simpsons, and sign up for five bucks a month. You get the ad-free episodes and also access to a vast back catalog of full-length miniseries episodes covering things like Futurama, King of the Hill, Batman, the animated series, The Critic, and Mission Hill. And that five bucks a month also gets you a new episode of both Talking of the Hill and Talking Futurama every month. It's a big bang for your buck, five bucks a month at patreon.com slash Talking Simpsons.

There is a $10 level two that will give you one extremely large podcast once a month, along with all the $5 stuff. Henry, what's that? Bob is talking about our What a Cartoon Movie podcast, basically three podcasts and one you get in addition to all the other cool $5 stuff. It's ad-free as well, just like the podcast you get at the $5 level. What a Cartoon movie is where we cover an animated feature film as in depth as the Simpsons episode. we're about to wrap up our summer of Disney 2000s. We did an extremely goofy movie. We did Lilo and Stitch.

We did Atlantis, the Lost Kingdom, and now we're doing Treasure Planet to finish off the month. And those are just the most recent ones of a years and years collection of podcasts we've done that go super in depth into animated feature films. Purting into this episode, we've covered Spider-Man into the Spider-Verse, Batman Mask of the Fantasm, Batman, and Superman world's finest.

Lots of superhero stuff is in there, too. along with all the other great stuff like us covering all the toy story films a bunch of the 90s Disney films so much there check it out for yourself when you visit patreon.com slash talking simpsons and i've been one of your host bob macky you can find me on blue sky and letterbox and many other places as bob servo and my other podcast is retronauts that is a classic gaming podcast all about old video games you can find that wherever you find podcasts or simply go to patreon.com slash retro knots and sign up there for two full-length bonus episodes every month. And Henry, how about you?

You can still find me on Twitter at H-E-N-E-R-E-Y-G, but I'm having more fun on Blue Sky's Talking Henry. I'm also on Instagram as Talking Henry. And if you're following me and Bob in any of those places, please follow the official account. At Talk SimpsonsPod. At Talk SimpsonsPod keeps you up to date when there are

new podcasts or other stuff going on in our lives. Follow at Talk Simpsons Pod. And you can always find a list of our previously released free podcasts of What a Cartoon Talking Simpsons at Talking Simpsons.com. Thanks so much for listening, folks. We'll see you again next time for the latest episode of our community podcast.

Talk to the audience, and we will see you then. me who fistface is. I demand you reveal the identity of fistface. It's you!