Talking Simpsons - Talking Simpsons - Simpson Tide With Jack Allison

Episode Date: May 29, 2019

Get aboard your sub and cut your jibs, because we've joined by Jack Allison (from the podcasts Struggle Session and JackAM)! This Crimson Tide-inspired episode is the final Simpsons co-showrun by Mike Reiss, and Jack is giving us his Hollywood comedy writer insight on the show! Not only that, but Bart has an earring, we get some pre-9/11 laughs at the military, Gilligan is here, and more! Listen now, as we must crush capitalism!! Support this podcast and get dozens of bonus episodes by visiting Patreon.com/TalkingSimpsons and becoming a patron! This podcast is brought to you by the streaming network VRV: home to cartoons, anime, and so much more! Visit VRV.co/WAC to sign up for your FREE 30-day trial and kick a little money back to your friends at the Talking Simpsons Network!

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It's real easy, man. I heartily endorse this event or product. Ahoy, ahoy, everybody. Welcome to Talking Simpsons, the podcast that is so 1991. I'm your host, the handsome in an ugly sort of way, Bob Mackie. And this is our chronological exploration of The Simpsons. Who is here with me today? Sparkle, sparkle. It's Henry Gilbert. And who do we have on the line?

This is Jack Allison. And today's episode is Simpson Tide. Good luck, Dad. Although I'm morally opposed to the military industrial complex of which you are now a part. Aw, Dad, sweet honey. I'll bring you back ahead. And Henry will tell us what happened on this mythical day in real world history.

Oh my god! Oh boy, Bobby! The Austin era has begun as Stone Cold wins the championship at Wrestlemania 14. Grease is reissued into theaters for its 20th anniversary alongside the inescapable Grease Megamax that was all

over the radio at the time. And sitcom writers rejoice as the FDA approves Viagra for sale. And so many jokes were written. A million, a million jokes were written.. And so many jokes were written. A million jokes were written. It powered so many monologues. I thought you were going to talk about Austin Powers. Oh, did that come out too? No, no, that was 97.

Okay. That Austin is more my speed. Okay, no, no, no. The Austin era, that was the classic call done by Jim Ross after Stone Cold Steve Austin won the title. And it was the beginning, truly, of the Attitude Era of professional wrestling. It's Henry's Wrestling Minute there. Yeah, the Grease thing, though, it's 20th anniversary, and now it's getting closer to its 50th.

But I didn't care much for Grease, but I could not escape that. The Megamix was on everything. I don't recall that you didn't hear i heard it like at my high school that all the kids were singing it it was weird it it cut together all of like many of the songs not all the songs but like like say in the song of uh tell me more tell me more did she put up a fight then it goes into grease lightning and it like kind of cuts around all of the sex and rape stuff. I'm shocked you didn't hear it.

This was everywhere in high school. But Grease and Star Wars were coming back into theaters at the same point in history. Yeah, it was a weird time. And yes, Viagra, the dick pill revolution began. And now there are so many generic variants I hear about on podcasts. It's so great to hear people like Gilbert Gottfried talk about Blue Chew and things like that. I never heard that one.

The dick pills are everywhere now. I will say without podcast ads, I would not hear Gilbert Gottfried talk to me about cryptocurrency. And I'm not even kidding about that. It really made my day. On Stone Cold Steve Austin's podcast, to bring it back to him, I remember that was the first time I'd heard of Dick Pills ad read.

And he talked about how his euphemism for it was, it'll get your flagpole going at full mast or something like that. He didn't use like Stone Cold. I guess you don't want a cold erection. No, no. I mean, it's a hard, it's a difficult thing for these ultra straight guys to also say like, I'm talking about your dick, but I'm straight. Your dick, in particular. But today's special guest is Jack Allison of the podcast Struggle Session. Hello, Jack. Hi there. Thanks for having me, guys.

This is exciting. And Jack, you are a comedy professional. You're a... Nominally. You're a big time tweeter. You're Struggle Session. Jack A.M., You are such a comedy pro Well I mean I have worked as a professional

In comedy before I am not currently But I have worked professionally in comedy I guess yeah I mean I don't know I do tweet a lot You said that I both am a comedy professional and I tweet a lot The two have not been concurrently true But that's one of my favorite things Following you on Twitter Is that you reveal a lot of secrets have not been concurrently true uh but that's one of my favorite things following

you on twitter is that you really you reveal a lot of secrets about the comedy industry for his regard to like say nepotism or protect like why comedy is bad gets explained quite well well i appreciate that yeah i like to think of myself as the masked magician but for the comedy world uh and not wearing a mask you know the the Fox series where he revealed all the magician's secrets or whatever. I like to think of myself as a kind of masked magician type. As a comedy professional, you must have enjoyed The Simpsons at one of the first ones, and I'd say the second one ended up being South Park, of a show that I, as a child, sort of had to sneak to watch because I knew it was a cartoon that was intended for adults. So I do remember sneaking off to watch Simpsons and then finally getting caught by my parents, and then they kind of just got on board and liked The Simpsons. So I watched The Simpsons every night.

When I was growing up, it wasn't really... God, I don't remember how old I would have been when The Simpsons. So, you know, I watched the Simpsons near every night. Like when I was growing up, the, it wasn't really, God, I don't remember like how old I would have been when the Simpsons started, but there were a number of seasons already out. And so really for me, the Simpsons was that daily rerun at seven 30 every night on Fox. Ah, and well, and in your professional comedy writing career, did you ever get in the sphere of the simpsons or anywhere near the orbit of the production of it yeah my wife wasn't was was a an assistant there and mitch was mitch mike mitchell was yeah i knew your old roommate was yeah yeah my wife was the writer's assistant there uh up until just a couple of years ago she'll be credited on uh most of the newer episodes kate raft so yeah i mean i, I mean, I know Selman a little.

I'm not close with any of these people, but I like Selman and stuff. I've met some of these people and I've been to a table read before. Oh, that's great. I've been around Simpsons World a little bit. I've been to their shitty little bungalow on the Fox lot. We've heard a lot about

that bungalow, yeah. Yes, all the questions. Sounds pretty hard. I wonder, though, if that Disney is going to dump that. They're renting that space right now. Like, Disney, according to that Hollywood Reporter piece, any Fox productions, like, they don't have the space for it on the Disney's property right now, so

they're renting production space that Fox is still using from Fox, and I would think that's probably going to not last very long. You guys have any predictions on what's going to go down with Disney's new ownership of The Simpsons? I mean, I apologize. You've already talked about that on the show here. Oh, I have a few. Yeah, Henry definitely has a few. I think it will just be an endless property now, like any Disney character. And my old theory was that when a prominent voice actor on the show dies,

like let's say Harry Shearer or Julie Kavner, I'm listing the oldest people first. They would say, out of respect for these people, these people are the characters. We can't continue the show. Disney does not believe in that.

Disney has your understudy waiting for you, waiting for you to die if you're voicing a character. Staring at you. But I mean, Fox was ready to replace them all the last time

they were trying to get better pay. I think under fox or under disney this thing is like never going to end as long as it's profitable the only way i think simpsons ends is like the same as reno 911 which my understanding was when reno 911 got canceled the justification by the network was the reruns get just as good ratings as new episodes so why should we buy more because like the reruns do just as well so i think that whether it's fox or whether it's disney you were never going to see simpsons end until the reruns are doing as well as the new episodes you know what i mean my here's my just little theory and i don't know if it's like they cancel it or something first but i believe that we'll get a simpsons relaunch of some type where they kind of like

try to star wars the simpsons and say of some type where they kind of like try to Star Wars the Simpsons and say like you know and imply a little bit like you know maybe it was bad before but like we're back and it's like the way it used to be or something you know yeah yeah yeah I think they could have some similar approaches to that I think the the my guess is also involved how they've treated other things not just Star Wars but Muppuppets. And I think Simpsons could end up getting the Muppets thing where they give it one big prestige relaunch. And then when that didn't really take or become hugely popular, they're like, well, let's try a smaller thing. And then when that doesn't take, they try a smaller thing after that. And then it just becomes a thing that if super fans want it, it exists, but they don't really do stuff now i think this though i

think that there's a lot of crossover between how disney has dealt with their acquisition of the muppets and how they've dealt with their acquisition of star wars because i would push back a little bit i think that that first muppet movie they put out from disney was fairly beloved and i think everybody like kind of liked it a lot and then you know it was then the second one which i know people actually liked the second one but it just didn't have as much excitement like it kind of showed that they didn't you know have you know that much of a vision for the franchise or something like that then they also swung and missed with the tv show i think you're seeing a similar thing with star wars where it's like we had the big force awakens last jedi is well liked obviously you guys like it but it did

not do as well in the box office and there's all this sort of fan controversy around it solo is like an outright failure just like the muppets tv show and now they're kind of in this like middle ground where they don't know what the fuck to do with this app acquisition like uh yeah so i yeah i think that there's like a lot of bleed over between the two types of acquisitions or the two acquisitions that disney's done yeah actually with star wars and muppets they both also they have this kind of underlying theme in both force awakens and the muppets of saying this got bad or this isn't good anymore or the characters are tired and sad and now they're coming back which that would be weird to do in the simpsons to just have like homer as a statement say i've been pretty tired or i feel like they could do like i feel like there's i feel like

disney won't let their properties just go on as kind of like this sludge that's unexciting or something like that i feel like they're going to want to squeeze these new acquisitions to like make as much money as possible and so i don't know how they'll do it but i do foresee some kind of hey wink wink the simpsons has been bad, but now The Simpsons is back. And I think the worst case scenario is just like Star Wars. It comes back and everybody thinks it is good again, and it's just not. I'm starting to think that the characters and the reruns are more valuable to them than a new show or continuing the show. Sure.

But I think like Homer and Bard and Mr. Burns and everyone will just be like Mickey and Goofy and Donald where they will come back for different things especially I mean not to be too morbid here but Matt Groening is in his 60s he's got maybe 20 years left of control over this you know or at least some sort of input fully yeah you could also just give him four billion dollars like they did Lucas and just buy him out but I'm thinking like by the time we all die we'll be on our like fourth Homer voice and there'll be like a goof troop version of the Simpsons where it's like, remember Homer?

Now he's back in this new show and like everything's different. So I do think that we'll start seeing like, you know, at like corporate events, it'll be like Mickey Mouse handing it off to Bart or something like that. Like no irony. Yeah.

And I would think Nancy or Dan would probably be into that. Okay. Last thought on the Disney thing for me is I think in my previous calculations, think about Disney Plus because the reportage I had read beforehand was that the FXX thing would last a couple more years and they couldn't be allowed onto Disney Plus, which now sounds like Disney just threw enough money at it to make that much money. I think they bought them out, yeah.

And so because of that it being on disney plus they have a deal till season 32 two more years of simpsons on the fox network perhaps when that ends the repackaging happens as a disney plus original series that's more prestige style that does feel like actually a good fit it's like simpsons is coming to disney plus and it's like new and better and just like and how you remembered it before i do think i i think that's a good sort of arbitrary because i i don't think they're gonna care they they don't they don't have the fox network they didn't they didn't buy the network that was like carved out in their deal because they already own abc right i think that that is the case they like they can't buy fox

yeah yeah they can't buy the fox channel so i don't see why disney would continue to deal with fox for the simpsons show rather than pulling it and putting it on their own platform and that does feel like a kind of nice arbitrary marker for them to be like it's a relaunch yeah and then they can slim down the staff employ fewer expensive writers sure get rid of their current, you know, deal with Gracie. No, well, Gracie,

but also the animation studio, film Roman, and just, cause also what is, what does Disney need to have a third party animation team with film Roman there? Like they, they just bring it all internally,

shave off the costs. And then it's also possible that like Disney will make the show look better. Like, you know what I mean? Like is pretty fucking good at animation. I can see them making it feel better than the weird, too thin-lined HD Simpsons that are dead quiet. The new episodes are very weird, and not just from the writing. I actually think from how it looks and sounds on screen.

But that's not what we're here to talk about. It's quiet. It's scored weird. It's not scored enough. But yeah, Disney could make the show better. But even if they do cancel it, we can still do this podcast for 12 more years.

I've done the math. So if they were to cancel it today, we still have 12 more years worth of podcasts to do and we're doing it all. No matter what, you guys are going to be able to bleed the Simpsons drier

than Disney or Fox or whoever just because you started later. They should hire us to help them with that. Just consultant fee, man. But I get, well, why don't we get to this episode? Let's talk about Simpsons Tide. So more fun stuff.

Production information. This is one of four 3G production episodes written in 1995, I believe right after The Critic wrapped on Fox. And it's Al Jean, Mike Reese, and a skeleton crew like David Stern. Reed Harrison. Reed Harrison. And also the two Jean, Mike Reese, and a skeleton crew like David Stern. Reed Harrison. Reed Harrison. And also the two writers for this episode, Joshua Stern and Jennifer Ventimiglia, formerly Jeffrey. And they were two critic writers as well.

Yeah. Oh, yeah. I was just going to say, it was worth mentioning. We mentioned on the Round Springfield episode, we'll mention it again, that yes, Jennifer Ventimiglia is the first trans person to write for The Simpsons. Though they didn't transition until about a decade after they had left the show. But, so it's worth noting, just as a fun historical record there. Also, hopefully

that was not considered dead naming or anything. Their name is on the episode as that, so I just wanted to point out in case you're confused why I said Jennifer. On the Wikipedia, too. It is tough. I don't know what that, you know, I don't know what the rules are for that kind of stuff. So if I messed up, please let me know. But the director for this episode, Milton Gray, and one of our great animation experts that's been on the show,

not on this show, but what a cartoon, Tad Komorowski, he actually emailed me with information about him out of nowhere, just like, oh, here's some thoughts about Simpsons Tide. And this guy is 77 now, and I believe he's still getting work on the show or trying to get work on the show, but he started as an in-betweener on The Jungle Book. So that's how old he is and how much he's been in the animation world he worked with ralph backshe a lot apparently he could never really rise to the rank of director

regular director for the show he might have been too old for those duties at this time but the way that tells me that i guess a lot of directors were taking their vacations around this time so they basically gave him this episode he didn't have a lot of creative input on this one. He was just sort of a very workmanlike worker, but it's a good-looking episode. But this is the one episode he did direct, Milton Gray, and he was never a director after that, but he continued working on the show. Milton Gray also directed the cartoon All-Stars to the Rescue. No way. Yeah, I saw that. I want to interview him just about that. He's one of the many directors on it,

but Milton Gray, yeah, is the director for Cartoon All-Stars to the Rescue. He just directed the ALF segments, I think. How involved was the government in that? I want to ask him. Yeah, I looked at Milton Gray's thing, too. I saw that he was like, he's credited his co-director on Crepes of Wrath,

which sounds like a Kent Butterworth situation where they figured they decided after his one, they took it away from him and gave him a co-director on crepes of wrath which sounds like a kent butterworth situation yeah where they figured he they decided after his one they took it away from him and gave him a co-director and they're like nah you can't do that he's based on uh i did look up his animation guild profile and what looks to be written by him he really talks about how he is a master animation timer like he has done animation timing on the simpsons forever yeah mainly under mark kirkland and that his most recent jobs were like the top animation timer on marvel animation projects up to 2017 he's still doing it yeah and like i said these are part of the 3g production series and they were written in 1995 and then some of them aired in 1998 which is why a lot of these

jokes do feel like i mean mean, they're dated now, of course, but at the time they were like, oh, you're referencing this now? Especially when Lisa Sacks is ostensibly supposed to take place in 1995, but it aired in 1997.

And there are very specific things pointed out in an episode that tells you it was a 95 episode. But it's kind of like a strange, it's a strange, Yeah, there's some weird, I also don't think

this episode's that funny. Yeah. There are some bits. I also don't think this episode's that funny. Yeah. There are some bits. There's some funny parts in it. There are. There's one part especially that I was like, that made me laugh out loud, actually. They did not set out for this to be a Crimson Tide parody. I guess we're bearing the lead.

This is partially a Crimson Tide parody. They had this episode for the show, The Two Writers, and as they were writing it, Crimson Tide came out. I assume it was a book first, but it was popularized as the movie. You know, I don't, I think it was an original film. I just assumed it was a Tom Clancy. Well, it's a Tom Clancy ripoff. Like 100%.

It was Jerry Bruckheimer saw there was a Tom Clancy movie. This is a deep impact. Yeah, yeah. They just like, we can make one too. I rewatched to as prep for this episode i went above and beyond uh i hadn't seen it since i saw it in theaters with my mom in 1995 and uh you know it's not it's a good dad movie i'd say it's for it's it's just men yelling around navy propaganda uncredited writing by quentin tarantino i'm reading oh good god yes

like if you if you watch it now there are multiple scenes where it's just like that just came out of quentin tarantino's mouth like he just said there's a bit where denzel washington breaks up a fight between two sailors and one sailor's like well he said that the silver surfer by mobius is better than the silver surfer by jack kirby i was like well that's quentin tarantino right there but i guess that uh as they were writing this episode, that movie came out and was popular, so they incorporated more of those elements and named it this to reflect the movie.

Of course, that was a 95 movie, and we're in 1998 now, so you can see it reflects the time in which it was written. I would feel by 1998, most people did not remember Crimson Tide, the movie. Did it linger in our cultural brains, this movie? I don't think so. I think this is like the common Simpsons problem is how long it takes to animate things. That it's like, we're going to be seeing The Simpsons

about lime scooters after the presidential election or something. It really also was a critic problem where they had to guess which movies would be popular to parody because it took nine months from the writing process to see the episode. So often they would parody things and you'd be like, no one saw this. I don't get your jokes about this based on the trailer. Which, look, I don't think I couldn't guess

what movies will be popular back then either. Now it's just like you're pretty safe making a Marvel movie reference, I think. There are only like 12 movies a year now. It's fine. And yeah, this is also the final Mike Reese show run episode. And we talked to him on the Patreon. We had an interview with him. Yes.

And yeah, Al Jean and Mike Reese, they were, in case you're brand new to the show, they were the writing team that were hired in season one, some of the first writers on the Simpsons staff. Season three, they ascend to showrunner after Sam simon kind of steps away and they run seasons three and four leave for the critic but still do this stuff on the side mike reese uh including they also worked on teen angel which was canceled actually a month before this episode aired um based on reading mike reese's book he came to hate hollywood and everything involved in it and uh and quit after my own heart uh well and he was uh after show running and creating a couple shows i think he

was rich enough to and also not having children or divorcing i think mike reese could actually afford to do that uh so so yeah he quit and moved to new york and went on a lot of expensive looking vacations with his wife it looked it looks like a pretty great life that mike reese has and now he writes children's books, and I think even he finds the process strange, where he writes a book and sends it to his publisher, and someone else illustrates it, and then it's a book. He has no impact on who draws it, what the pictures look like.

He was complaining about the cover of his last book, like, I don't like this. It's like, wow, the world of children's books must be odd. I guess, well, number one, you have to be famous to write a children's book. Or like an established writer. You can't just write a children's book. No, I don't think you can just write a children's book on spec and expect to get that out there. You can't just come up with your own little lesson about why lying is bad and just send that in.

Well, I mean, what can you say that hasn't been said already? Unless you try to couch it in like the mueller report or whatever this episode is the first is like i guess right at the cusp of like the aljean solo show running episodes uh we are uh that will start in season 13 but uh after leaving disney aljean is like sneaks into the show slowly and slowly like because um as you know jack with a lot of wga shows i don't know if this is still the case actually at, at 10, it became GA. It was not a guild show until 10, I think. Well, I guess they were still abiding by these rules. But for shows, I assume it's the same for a lot of shows.

But every season needs a few freelance scripts. It's a way to get new people into the industry. It's fairness. It's also a way to get the older guys to keep their health insurance. That, too. And previously on the simpsons we would see newer writers do freelance scripts who eventually become you know great writers in hollywood but uh after season nine i believe like al jean would gobble up all of those

freelance scripts so there'd be two al jean shows a year and then in season 13 he'd take over the show and he runs it to this very day oh yeah because their disney overall deal lasted three years so it ended in 97 and re wanted out and Al Jean wanted to stay. Al Jean also has gone through what seems like costly divorces, if you want to wonder why he'd stay. So he sticks around and rejoins the staff as a solo writer, which, I don't know, Jack, from the insider perspective, how hard is it to decouple a professional relationship like that i mean i think it doesn't matter if you're working with like friends and you know people that have like that are going to be hiring you either way like at simpsons you know what i mean like uh they they probably had representation and all their existing deals were done as a you know team or something

like that but yeah i mean in a in a normal world where they were just like a pair of screenwriters like out there and then you know had sold a movie or something it might be very difficult for them to break in individually but al jean was just going to get the job from his friends at simpsons you know what i mean yeah jack one more insider question what what do you think of the harvard mafia of the simpsons uh i mean bad, I think, to be honest with you. It's tough, man. When that show started, that is a super smartly written show. And I do think that there was a kind of camaraderie or something like that that came from the fact that a lot of these people had worked together at Lampoon and that there was a sort of shorthand that they could use there.

But I do think that in the intervening many, many many years it is kind of made the show i think like more alien and like disconnected from you know any actual people and uh and i do think it's like in some ways like a little bit like just ugly and sort of out you know put off putting to outsiders like you know there are very for example like you know mike minchell super funny guy like by all by all accounts like actually a very very funny writer like would never be considered to write something there because he's not like part of the harvard thing you know what i mean like it just is this kind of like elitist element that uh i i think that honestly has like not done the show any favors and you know was maybe fine at the outset but like now just is kind of like an alumni association

or something like that. That's why we have a lot more respect for Mike Scully now, who I guess formerly was known to have ruined the show. That was the story. But now I think we've all changed our minds or at least have a more informed opinion.

But he is a college dropout who wrote jokes for... Yakov Smirnoff. Yes. Scully's funny as fuck. Yeah, he's awesome. He's awesome on Twitter. He's really funny. He's a great guy to talk to. We interviewed him as well.

The story behind him was, according to fans, he ruined the show. There are some changes to his seasons that are different, but I will say I respect his different perspective as an outsider in a Harvard room. I'll say outright,

to put a fine point on it, I think that this is a very aljean episode and i think that the show could probably do with some new blood as a showrunner uh i love the critic i think aljean's a funny guy but he's been in that job for a very very long time uh and i think the show would probably be well suited for some new blood uh specifically matt selman i did feel that that megan amram episode from a few a couple months ago now at the time you're listening to this listeners yeah that episode did feel fresher to me and it felt like at the very least the way it engaged with current day topics which were two years old by the time the episode came

out but the way you engaged with those topics was not in the musty old way that I felt they would have in other episodes like that yale episode about robotic sjw students sucks shit and the megan amfram one is a lot it felt more uh written by a person under 30 and i will say like there are good parodies but that's a sort of habit he falls into there are some unnecessary parodies in this episode yeah he relies on that device a sort of habit he falls into. There are some unnecessary parodies in this episode. Yeah. He relies on that device a lot. I mean, he's number one.

A little family guy. Yeah, I mean, he is very, this episode's very family guy. He and Mike Reese, their first job in Hollywood, so at Harvard, at the Lampoon, they wrote parodies. Their first job as writers was on Airplane 2, which is a parody movie, a satire. They just grew up in the world of writing parodies

and satire. So that is what he's comfortable writing. And that's why a lot of these episodes in this 3G production series, almost all of them are a parody of a movie or a TV show. Well, and I complained about this before in the Poppins one, but my personal rule as a critic is that if your entire episode is the core is a film parody then you're not allowed to do other film parodies around the core film parody you're doing and yet there's many of those before you even get into crimson tide there's a deer hunter scene there's a very odd that was the most family guyish one to me where mo runs to the back where there's a deer hunter scene happening with crusty who just sits there and doesn't say anything while he's there in the scene from Deer Hunter.

And Skinner is there, too. Yeah, that at least makes sense. Skinner is Deer Hunter McMahon from the Deer Hunter movie. But it makes sense that Al Jean's last episode of Showrunner, before he became Showrunner again, was Cape Fear, which is a great episode, and it is a parody. And I think, Henry, I think it does stick to just parodying one thing. Just being a parody of the Scorsese movie.

There is a shot in there that's a parody of Psycho. Oh, well, you can still do that. I will also say this, that Cape Fear works consistently within the existing storyline of the show. You know what I mean? We have this character, Sideshow Bob, that wants to kill Bart. And so that plot line actually just makes sense to put the simpsons characters into it i'm not so sure that like homer is the captain of a fucking submarine does actually make sense within the like context of the show that we know and there are some story things in this episode i don't

quite understand but i guess we'll get to those yeah when we get to this well and k fear is also an amazing one of the best animated episodes oh yeah rich more right yeah it's i think it was rich more's final one because he left for critic just like the other two guys yeah uh but all right why don't we why don't we get into the episode itself they begin with a rocky and bullwinkle couch gag which i like they at least they got the real music of frederick steiner like that uh it they got the real music of Frederick Steiner. It's very well done, that couch gag. It was a cool look. It was cool animation. I liked it.

And yes, then we get into the opening with the Planet of the Donuts, which on the commentary, Mike Reese even admits this is probably a critic joke they didn't use on Critic and reused here. Homer Simpson, you stand accused of eating half the population of the planet of the donuts as hammer's defense attorney i feel we should be massive hey did you just take a bite out of me maybe i sentenced you to death yeah so you were saying henry that was taken from an unproduced critic episode. As were a few other things like Sherry Bobbins getting sucked into the plane. That was going to be one of those opening film clips. If you're going to write the jokes and they don't get put on TV, reuse them.

That's not so bad. But it always, it does feel, when it feels recycled and it doesn't feel as true to the show, if it's just something Jay Sherman would have done. That's why this production run does feel a it feels recycled and it doesn't feel as true to the show yeah if it's just something jay sherman would have done that's why this production run does feel a little criticky they had just done the critic and i'm sure they were using a lot of jokes they had written for the planned third season that never got produced i mean that makes sense because like this episode does have a you know and i this is what i was sort of getting at before with the cape fear episode is like it does have a quality of like just not fitting within the universe of Simpsons.

And I think this is something, is this like before or after the, like Homer becomes an astronaut type of way after that? Yeah. It's way after. Then I think this is in that grand tradition of like, and I even liked the Homer becomes an astronaut episode kind of, but this is in that grand tradition of like,

Oh, we just are not a show about like a family in like small town, middle America anymore. Yeah. It's a Homer gets, it is a Homer gets a job episode, of like oh we just are not a show about like a family in like small town uh middle america anymore yeah it's a homer gets it is a homer gets a job episode which i think totally too maybe what makes this stand out in season nine is that if this had aired if this was a plot in three or four i think it would have felt more normal but if we've seen it now during the scully years like it does it feels weirder and you notice the differences even more.

The Simpsons will be right back. When you really care about someone, you shout it from the mountaintops. So on behalf of Desjardins Insurance, I'm standing 20,000 feet above sea level to tell our clients that we really care about you. Home and auto insurance personalized to your needs. Weird, I don't remember saying that part. Visit Desjardins.com slash care and get insurance that's really big on care. Did I mention that we care? Thanks for listening to this week's episode. Instead of joining the military industrial complex, we love all of you listeners and we especially want to thank this week's guest

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It is worth your while. And again, really helps me and Bob do this full time. And we appreciate every single one of our patrons. So please, once more, patreon.com slash talking simpsons homer gets woken up from his dream after again the apes parody then turns into like a king kong parody briefly that's parody briefly oh that's right yeah that's your parody yeah the shot of him reaching into the box for the donuts right yeah uh when homer wait i do really like the animation of the perspective of his drool drift that was

really good and we get a little call back to the giant hand man his only other appearance in the show i was so excited to see this because i forgot about this they gave him an origin yeah you get to see how he got his giant hand but apparently he got it as a child because the first incident of someone making fun of his giant hand was in 1956 yeah wait so was he working at the whatever who cares but i'm just saying i'm glad that he came back they remembered him that's not even an lg in episodes david murkin episode yeah that uh i am kind of shocked at that that they brought back somebody they didn't invent. According to the wiki, too, he's never appeared again.

This is his only other appearance. Bring him back. So, yes, they follow the Marvel Comics rule of radiation makes something big. They throw it into the reactor, and it's a success as far as Homer is concerned in this next clip. Sir, we found the problem. Some idiot threw this in the reactor core. Success! You did this? How could you be so irresponsible?

It's my first day. Since I'd never seen you before, maybe it is your first day. Very well, carry on. Uh, sir, that's Homer Simpson. He's been working here for ten years. Oh, really? Why did you think you could lie to me? It's my first day. Well, why didn't you say, go woo! You're fired! One thing that happens in this episode

is Homer gets fired and he never gets rehired. Nope, they just don't care. I just remembered that. Yeah. I think maybe Al Jean was under the idea that you still needed a reason

to get Homer out of the plant. When Mike Scully would just be like, who cares? He's over here now doing this thing. So I feel like he still felt like he needed to build in a reason why Homer couldn't be at his job or had a different job to me this is like the

hallmark of these sort of aljean-ish episodes like this is a very aljean structure episode where it like starts off with one thing totally unrelated like the episode opens on like completely unrelated stuff and by the end of the first act we're into a completely different plot for the rest of the episode so like this episode opens with like homer gets fired from the power plant because he put a donut in the in the reactor core and that's going to lead us to that he is going to join um the navy you think that would be the story like the bread winner for this family has no job now yeah that's not even a concern you don't seem that worried yeah right which is i guess i mean it's so funny because the simpsons as a series started with like

the very real threat of like homer not even getting fired but not getting his christmas bonus like the show was about this very real sort of family like sad heartstrings pulling kind of thing of like he didn't get his christmas bonus he wasn't gonna be able to do christmas for the family now homer's like getting outright like fired act one for like throwing a donut in the thing and that's going to lead him to immediately become a the captain of a submarine why and also in the like fourth or fifth episode homer's odyssey he it's the first time he's fired and he legitimately contemplates suicide what a weird episode yeah it's a it's a weird he legitimately almost attempts suicide yeah he is going to do it he's just like yeah he is stopped briefly by the family and they're like okay you're not gonna kill yourself great and that's just they

they just move on and it's uh let's get you drunk well i'm talking about continuity though another thumbs up on continuity when smithers says he's worked there for 10 years that is correct because he started the day bart was born so 10 years since and uh yeah so homer is fired nobody really seems to be that but i mean he's sad on his couch but why not have a worried about money scene with him and marge i mean they've done them a lot maybe it just feels repetitive at this point but maybe if they've done them a lot maybe that's the him getting fired from his job is repetitive. You know what I mean? Perhaps so.

The whole him getting fired from his job thing, if all the beats around that feel like we've done them a million times. And they also bring back one of the very few African-American writers or voice actors in the show's history for this episode, Michael Carrington. But Michael Carrington's a very funny guy, but he does not have a Harvard background. He is a stand-up who became a comedy writer he played the stand-up in homer and apu yes yeah white guys do this yeah and he also wrote homer triple bypass he was the freelancer who wrote that but yeah he plays all of the black characters he's also sideshow rahim yeah and

and when they had a spike lee type i guess they don't directly call him spike lee on the, but the Spike Lee character who he meets in the season one episode where he's making a movie. Okay. That was also Michael Caring. That's right. That's right. Yeah. I think it's good when they hire black guys to play black characters. That's a good casting choice.

This episode, though, has a real 90s perspective on the military that I appreciate. I love that. It's sacrilegious to say this now, but it's just the military is pointless, it's too much money, everyone who works for the military is a drunk or a slob, and their jobs are very easy. That's what this episode says. That's not Bob saying that.

That's the episode's opinion. Yeah, it's like the sign for the Naval Reserve. It's not just a job, it's a really easy job. My opinion. Well, yeah, this is way before the troop. This is only actually three and a half years before troop respecting got foisted upon us. I mean, these jokes here don't reflect the forever war we're in now. And it's funny to go back to them, all these jokes about how, like, the military sucks because they're not killing people.

Boo. Now we have to respect them because we are uh we have we have them actually out there killing people well these also these jokes about the reserve have a real direct thing that happened in my life i had a high school buddy who was like he was the guy who would imitate chris farley all the time if you knew that type of real cut up uh the class clown because he could repeat Chris Farley gags and it looked kind of like him he was a fun guy and uh in 2000 when he graduated he's like you know what the army reserve sounds like a good thing it's just it looks easy it'll be they'll pay for college later good times I think by his second time in Iraq is he changed

his mind on that one yeah Yeah. But these kinds of ads are this way of thinking legitimately lied to him and a whole generation of service people who got completely fucked by it. Yeah.

It makes me angry. I have similar stories. I graduated from high school in the year 2000 and the common sentiment was like, college is for suckers. The army is totally cool.

It's way easy. You'll not fight in a war. You get paid. They take care of you. You get good health insurance. It's such a scam. It was viewed as a scam. Like, join is for suckers. The Army is totally cool. It's way easy. You'll not fight in a war. You get paid. They take care of you. You get good health insurance. It's such a scam. It was viewed as a scam. Like, join the Army.

It is such a scam. Okay, boot camp sucked, but after that, man, it was such a scam. And then 2001 happened. Yep. Interesting. That's so funny. I graduated, like, slightly after that. So I was in, like, 2004.

So my entire high school, you know, it was, like, the people trying to recruit you and shit. But it was a totally different attitude of like, fuck that. Like, I think the recruitment probably got harder for them. Yeah. I'm really glad to hear that. That's good. No, I had, you know, I look back on it now, it felt normal then,

but in multiple classes, like, military recruitment people got to speak to our class and say, you should should joy i was like how is this legal this is like there was real shit because i had to like uh i had to sign up for you have to sign up for the draft still like you have to still sign up for selective services when you turn 18 and i still remember that gillette sent me like a free razor because i signed up and i was like so i signed up and the army promptly sold my address to Gillette

to send me a fucking free razor? I got the exact same thing in the mail. So funny. I guess that's the true passing into adulthood for American men is when they get the free Gillette razor, the government sells their address to the Gillette company. In exchange for the use of your body in war. I think I'm out of the selective service zone now.

I think it ends at 35. Oh, good. So I made it out of the draft, baby. Fuck you. I'm too flat-footed, too asthmatic. That's lucky, man. Oh, but yes, we... Actually, why don't we hear that commercial?

And also get a fun little gag about black exploitation horror films, which, let me tell you guys, if you haven't watched it, there's a really good documentary. The Shudder, I think the name of that channel is. Yeah, Shudder. They put out called Horror Noir, a black history of horror. It's really good. They talk to the real African-American people who made all these horror films. They got all the experts.

It is really, really good. There is a better version of this joke in a later episode. It has Dana Gould's stink all over it. It's the movie Blackula meets Black Dracula. Oh, I got to see that one. I forgot that joke. Next on Exploitation Theater, Blackula, followed by Blackenstein, and the Blunch Black of Bloat Your Blame. Woo!

Funky. But first, this word. Daybreak. Jakarta. The proud men and women of the Navy are fighting for freedom. But you're in Lubbock, Texas, hosing stains off a monument. You're in the Naval Reserve,

America's 17th line of defense between the Mississippi National Guard and the League of Women Voters. After basic training, you'll only have to work one weekend a month. And most of that time, you're drunk off your ass. You know, Lisa, I've taken a lot from this country. Maybe it's time I gave something back.

Are you thinking of joining the Naval Reserve? Would you be proud of me? Eh, sort of. Then I'll do it. Inconsistent with what Lisa says later, of course. Yeah, yeah. Lisa just exists in this episode to just comment snidely on the plot. Yeah, yeah.

There's not a lot going on with her. No, they're pretty uninterested in Lisa in this episode. Yeah, like all the guys in that commercial are just, their butt cracks are showing, they're very large. They're basically all Barney. Yeah, they are.

They're all Barney's body type. They're like, if Barney were the Beagle Boys, it's a different version of Barney. We've been watching DuckTales lately. We have been. For work. And a little fun. Yeah, no, all that stuff is so crystallized in time.

That's what the feeling was of military service under Clinton, that we were not doing enough, apparently. Yeah, that whole thing about one weekend a year or whatever, or one weekend a month, right? That was part of the scam my high school buddies would talk about. It's one weekend. That's all you've got to do. And it was like, ROTC, is that weekend a month, right? That was part of the scam my high school buddies would talk about. It's one weekend, that's all you gotta do. And it was like, ROTC, is that like some army thing too?

That's so you can enter as an officer after. I had an ROTC friend who I'm actually going to talk about in just a second too. ROTC is a different version of the military invading our schools, but yeah. It's like the fun, it's like for being a military cheerleader, right? Yes, yeah, but it's like, well, Boy Scouts isn't militaristic enough for me. I need to.

But also it is if you plan to go later into it. This is what my friend did. They were in. No, sorry. I had a friend who skipped ROTC because he had a hookup from his dad that he was just going to go straight to officer anyway or the officer training into the Navy thanks to his dad. So he's like, I don't even have to do ROTC like these losers, which that seems like a flaw in our military there. Young John McCain. I thought of John McCain a couple

times this episode. I think of John McCain constantly, the old maverick. He's so inspiring in his sense of bipartisanship. No, but the Don't Ask, No Tell bit in the next thing where Homer signs up. In 1998, I did not feel very fresh. Now it's actually the trans people's turn to be attacked. I guess it was instituted in 1994, which when this episode was written, it was fairly new.

But we have Just Stamp the Ticket Guy in a rare speaking role. Oh, you're right. That was him. Well, so this bit here with Don't Ask, Don't Tell is there was more punishment for telling than there was for asking, which this guy is afraid of it then. But you could get punished. This isn't inaccurate. And by saying that Navy friend I was just talking about, he did tell me a story of having to execute a Don't Ask, Don't Tell thing in like 2003 or something where they found out some Navy guy under him was like gay. Or was in a, actually not, he's queer, but he was in a relationship with another man, but also married to another female officer in the Navy too. And he was like, the guy was doing something to scam the military and steal stuff, but they just discharged him over gay gayness. And that

guy sounds pretty awesome to me. A guy in a poly relationship who stole from the Navy. That's a pretty cool guy. Uh, but yes, that's, uh, I I've heard it executed now. That's so in the past and it's, it's just trans people being attacked now. wonderful i do like his reaction of like i am not listening blah blah blah that's cute yeah that was a that's like a fine scene with like a joke you know what i mean i didn't and it was like it was like fit with the plot and everything like that but that was a perfectly fine scene but what about clapper jokes those are pretty funny that was crusty in 1995 yeah the uh yeah the clapper i will say i re-watched the original clapper commercial the first scene is a couple in bed so they at least being specific yeah they're reference to

the clapper clapper jokes were the head-on jokes of their time yeah actually if you'd like if you listeners are too young to remember the iconic Clapper commercial, here's the song. Clap on, clap off. For places hard to reach, the Clapper makes it easy. That is not the classic commercial, Henry. Oh, it's not? No, I'm sorry. Oh, why did I fail it?

The music is different. Oh, I'm sorry. It's clap on, clap off, the Clapper. All right. Clap on, clap off. clap on, clap off, the clapper. All right. Clap on, clap off, clap on, clap off, the clapper. That might come at the end of the commercial. That's a messed up remix. It's not my childhood.

I'm sorry. But what is more hacky, a clapper joke or a I Fallen and I Can't Get Up joke? I think Fallen. I think Where's the Beef? I think Where's the Beef was a pretty bad one around that time. I think the, I mean, I think Where's the Beef was a pretty bad one around that time. I think the... By 98, Where's the Beef would come back around again is a fun reference. Comedically, an old woman falling down is the better premise.

Well, now Klepper technology has improved so much that Amazon can just listen to you and share with the government. Oh, you have one of those? Yeah, we do. They're listening to us right now. Oh, boy. I had one. I can't do it anymore i had to unplug it it feels wrong it feels wrong we put a boom mic in our houses to listen to us for the amazon company it's like odd it's an odd choice to it's it's like if winston smith had bought the tv that watches him if i maybe hack and make a 1984 reference about our current day. They all decide

they're going to join up together in this next clip. Well, guys, I won't be seeing you for a while. Where are you going? I've joined the Naval Reserve. Well, I'm not going to let anything happen to my best friend. I'm joining too. Well, I'm not going to let anything happen to my two best customers. I'm joining too. And although my religion strictly forbids military service. What the hey, I'm in too. Gee, thanks, guys. This is just like the deer hunter.

The deer hunter? Uh, that reminds me. Did he move? Did he move? I'm sorry, guys. We're shutting down for a while. Sorry. I think you could have a deer hunter parody.

What I don't like about the setup is just like, this reminds me of the deer hunter. The deer hunter. And then like, here's our parody. Like two characters said the name of the movie. And they opened the door in the parodies. There's like, there could have been a more graceful way to go into that. I like the idea of that happening in his back room.

That is family guy style laziness of saying it twice. Well, actually, it's not even like, it's like, yeah, the deer hunter. Hey, remember that time we were in the deer hunter? I feel like they would even like not even do that obvious. Yeah. Or like Peter would have to go down to the basement to get a can of something, and the deer hunter scene would be happening. Right, it would just be unrelated.

You know, because of these jokes, I did watch The Deer Hunter around this time as a kid, and it seemed like a fine, great movie, though I completely reconsidered that movie after reading that book, Easy Rider Raising Bulls, because they bring up the, like, no, it's an insanely racist movie that turns every Vietnamese person into, like, a creature. Like, they're all monsters, which is a weird-ass thing to do to the people we fucking invaded and bombed.

Yeah, the people having, like, a civil war that we decided to join up in and fuck them up. That's the problem with The Deer Hunter. It recontextualizes it to say, like, like well it's actually a thing that happened to us like no we happened to them but that's that's the kind of bullshit that makes a john mccain possible like that i hate that i hate it actually uh though in this uh in that clip too there was i thought clever bad writing in that they recognize that they don't want Homer to be alone on the sub. They want other recognizable characters there. So they intentionally write a scene that makes no sense why the three of them would join, including Apu, directly highlighting why him as a Hindu would never join in armed services.

He's like, but I'm going to be there. They do a lot of work to show you Apu will be there but henry you're pointing out later in the show he only appears for one joke i think they had bigger plans for a poo on the submarine i think so yes i swear to god all of this thus far like the whole episode if you want to do the episode with all the simpsons characters on like a submarine why don't you just have it be like homer to bart like there was a time when we all were in the army together you know what i mean like why is this not like a flashback why have we spent like 15 minutes of the episode now like getting all the pieces in place so that all the simpsons characters can like join the navy it's bizarre bizarre you know what that is that is a time saver to just but then again if you're saving time this

episode actually needs more filler so that's that would be against the um the uh but yeah so they homer signs up that's where lisa says she shits all over the military industrial complex which i do like that yeah i do too but it's like but again i was like in the early scene where lisa's like maybe i would be proud of you i was like that's that's not Lisa. And then this scene, she is Lisa. And I'm like, so why'd you have that other line? Oh, well, whatever. Because who cares? Who cares, I guess, is the answer.

Who gives a shit? I do like Homer's bad dad line of like, but only if you're good, even if you're not. I also like him getting fooled by Bart saying that Flanders brought home military missiles casings. And then they go off to basic training, which on the commentary, they are sometimes negative about this episode, too. It's just Gina Reese on the commentary. And they bring up how everybody loves these army movies that have basic training in them, but no one remembers anything that happens after the basic training in Stripes or Private Benjamin or Full Metal Jacket,

once basic training is over, your mind thinks, well, the film is over, and you forget everything that happens after. I think I watched Stripes for the first time maybe five years ago. I didn't know there was more movie after that basic training, and it's not very good. No, no. It really kind of falls apart after that. I believe they invade Russia in that, too, just like Homer does, actually. Or a Russian-style place where Count count floyd is playing a russian that's right

sorry that actor's name is joe flaherty thank you yeah thanks also when they go to basic training it's like they have a full metal jacket head shaving scene but they also have an officer and a gentleman drill sergeant type yeah again it, it's like you're going to do all this Crimson Tide stuff. You don't have to do everything as a film reference. Is Homer getting in bed with Marge from An Officer and a Gentleman? Actually, it's from the Marines commercial. We're looking for a few good men. It's all the posing.

Remember the commercial of it's a guy? I didn't collect it because it's all visual. It is a sword being crafted and saying like the sword is awesome and then they give the sword to the marine guy he puts it in the sheath then it shows his hand move in the specific way a marine does and then putting the sword up to his ear okay and all that like that was the it was like 1993 military okay i don't recall that i remember like maybe around 911, there was a military ad where it's like, you're fighting a dragon, but you're actually in the army. Yeah, it's similar in spirit, but the posing is actually from a Marines commercial, which Homer's in the Navy.

They shouldn't do Marines. Anyway, yes, as Homer gets his training, I do like him doing a bad Columbo impression. That's good. He says he does a fair. Even he points out it's fair. Let's judge in this next clip here. Tuck in that shirt. Shine those shoes,

mister. Oh, for the love of... Uh, a seagull took my sailor hat. Alright, Simpson. I don't like you and you don't like me. I like you. Um, alright. You like me, but I don't like you. Maybe you would like me if you got't like me. I like you. Um, all right. You like me,

but I don't like you. Maybe you would like me if you got to know me. What are you, a comedian? Well, I'm no Margaret Cho, but I do a pretty fair Columbo impression. Ah, one more thing. Why don't you get

a glass of water? So, uh, a slam on Margaret Cho there. I like that joke, actually. Yeah homer's a margaret show fan it's funny because she had a show on abc the same time uh aljean and mike reese did oh that's right all american girl i watched all of it i just like that it's homer could say any stand up and that he's i feel like it's a joke that homer is hip enough to know who margaret show is like not saying that whether they find her funny or not,

but just that he knows her of existence. I like Dan Castellaneta, who is good at impressions, playing Homer bad at an impression. That's funny. Even doing the eye thing was nice. Another continuity good thing, continuity checkmark from Henry here. He is wearing the foam dome that was the product in saturdays of thunder that he owned you're right season three so they shave off his head full

metal jacket style i do like the dot in design it feels like the dots on homer's head from the stubble are where his hair on the back connects i found that funny i like that actually i like buzz cut homer where he just has the i guess where his hair goes in and out i guess his hair like from looking at that it's almost like it's like thread or something like that yeah like in and out of his head sometimes they say he has only three hairs like he said made my head to be plucked of all but three hairs which would imply that his the thing on the back of his head is one hair and And they've done that joke before, but it's like, I always read it as just a Jason Alexander style collection of hair at the back. And yeah, Homer just walks away, which I feel like that's a failure by his drill instructor

to just let him walk away like that. And then Homer kills a bunch of people. He kills a lot of people in this episode. He really does. He fails to tie up that ship, which you would assume would cause a dishonorable discharge right there. But then again, John McCain crashed a lot of planes. So, you know, who's to say? And you even hear the screams of the people as it falls over the water. That's true. It was the USS New Jersey, which I think is another classic New Jersey slam.

Nice slam on Jersey. From those New York elites in L.A. I also think it's really weird that they go to commercial on the World War I hats falling on people. It's like, eh, that's not your strongest joke to go to commercial on. It's an okay joke. I wish they would have cut the joke before the hats fall. Because the hats fall, they don't hurt anybody. The people just go, uh-oh, and that's it.

I like the idea of them throwing their spiky hats in the air. And they let you think about what that would mean when it flies up in the air. Right. I actually was watching this episode on a service that would that needed some buffering and i'll tell you what at that scene where they threw up the hats it like needed to buffer right at that moment so i waited with anticipation to see the funny thing of them all getting spiked but it does really weirdly like cut to black and then let just let you hear them all yell. And then we come back to commercial. We have a rather short B story here. Yeah.

Earrings on boy jokes also felt kind of clunky. Pass A in 1998. Yeah, there's no real twist on it either. Just I'm sure there was a Cosby show. I know for a fact there was a Cosby show episode about Theo getting an earring. You don't talk about that. It was a show that existed. I'm sorry.

But were any of us earring havers? I was at one point in my life. Oh, really? No, I never had the guts to wear one. It don't talk about that. It was a show that existed, I'm sorry, but were any of us earring havers? I was at one point in my life. Oh, really? No, I never had the guts to wear one. It wasn't my style. I still have the holes in my head for it, but I think it was just, I mean, it was conformist rebellion, as Lisa said, because I was in Catholic school where you had to tuck in your shirt, have a haircut, and not have

your ears pierced, so the second I graduated, I untucked my shirt, grew my hair out, and pierced my ear. So there you have it. I never had a pierced ear, but I got no problem with it. I don't know that I, you know, Bart looked good with the earring, I think. I also am glad they resisted any joke about the gay ear being pierced. They could have done that with, like, you know, Milhouse having his ear pierced on the right side, which is, as we deconstructed in Lisa's Rival episode,

it was the right side that's gay and the left isn't, though that was the locker room rule at the time anyway. Yeah. It makes you gay, actually, to put it on the wrong. The second you do, you're like, I need cock. Yeah. I do like the gag of, you know, we're talking about passe jokes. They were ahead of their time on best friend thinks mom is hot jokes.

Yeah, yeah. This is pre-American pie. So, yeah, this is before the advent even of the word milf. That's true, yeah. I do like Milf screaming, I think she's hot. He can't hold it in. He thinks about it all the time. I like that gag.

But also, as we're talking about things being passé, they do a joke about how old the fucking show is and how passé they've become. 21 years ago. Yes, yeah. But let's all sing along to the Michael Jackson written hit, The Bartman. Hey, Bart, check out my new earring.

Pretty cool, huh? Milhouse, my mom wears earrings. Do you think she's cool? No, I think she's hot. Sorry, it just slipped out. Hey, look! Millhouse has an earring! Millhouse! Millhouse! Millhouse! Hey, if you want cool, check this out Everybody, if you can, do the Bartman Check your body, turn it out If you can, can't, do the Bartman, yeah That is so 1991

Good catty Ralph Yeah, which again, we've been saying When you're watching this episode, you can say many times That's so 1991 about a lot of jokes in here and he was doing the bartman although that episode that video rust is not in the i don't know i guess so but i was going to point out in that song they don't actually tell you how to do the bartman shake your body is basically all the instructions they give you from side to side yeah that's it that's most dances yeah it's very open of saying like shake your body in tune with the music which is like anybody can do that i mean just all that's that could literally be a description of dancing

uh doing the mario had more instructions than doing the bart man yeah and the macarena obviously is is just solely an instructional song i appreciate that but then it also goes to millhouse getting permission to have his earring which does feel like gene and reese in the 90s fell into a bit of pc culture out of control type jokes which that feels still does yes yeah yep uh and which you know 30 years later even better but this this gag here about like oh well you're not allowed to unless you're a gypsy abstract abstraction and then like wow they even have a rule in the school book about being a vampire how pc can you get that's that's how i read that gag i do like that vampires exist in this world though and skinner's

aware of it i do like that uh though i'll say it later but this should be treated as canonical as the mary poppins episode like this for for reasons that come later in here um but yes then homer is about to fuck marge very happily that's i like when they have a good sex life i do like that uh but that's the that's the marine parody commercial okay uh 1993 we're looking for a few like the few the proud of the marines that's better propaganda than like we're looking for a few good men that's that's the thing in that commercial they then head to the navy vets place and we get stories about this also feels like a very conservative string of hating on vietnam vets and thinking they suck yeah the return of the

veterans of unpopular wars yes yeah two-story minimum yeah and then uh and then gina reese also love their kennedy gags they really enjoy that. Uh, the Ickman, I'm Berliner. They, they, even on the commentary, they talk about how like grandpa has been in every, in world war two is in every part of the service that was undercover and kissed Hitler. Like he did all these things, but you should just not believe any story Abe tells. That's, that's the real truth there. Um, and then we get our first of two dead guest stars in this episode, which means it's time to play that old death jingle. Death stalks you at every turn.

There it is, death. Bob Denver. Gilligan himself in this episode. One of the good Bobs, like me. From what I read about him and learned about him, he was pretty cool. Wasn't he a big stoner? He was. Was he revealed after his death?

Yeah, yeah. But yes, he did play Gilligan, and I watched all of Gilligan's Island several times as a kid, and I understood all the stand-up comedy jokes about Gilligan's Island in the late 80s, early 90s. Around when this episode airs, when I learned how the Gilligan's Island group, like most people who started things then, got really fucked out of residuals and didn't make $1 off of reruns, which is the only way Gilligan's Island made money. So that's also why he would probably

keep dressing up as Gilligan after he would probably not want to because he wasn't getting that residual money. When I went to elementary school, the piano player for all the school plays was this guy, George W wiley who did the theme song to gilligan's island whoa so i i mean i i was i mean i actually do think he probably made a shit ton of money from that i was gonna like make a joke about how he also like was like

working for but i actually think even back then he probably made more money on residuals from the theme song than the actors did for appearing on the show one i would 1000 beth a yeah the song songwriting rights were seemed to be figured out then i only based that on the anecdotal story of johnny carson wanting songwriting rights on the tonight show theme right when you really care about someone you shouted from the mountaintops so on behalf of desjardins insurance i'm standing,000 feet above sea level to tell our clients that we really care about you. Home and auto insurance personalized to your needs. Weird, I don't remember saying that part. Visit Desjardins.com slash care and get insurance that's really big on care. Did I mention that we care? So so you keep making money so if he was thinking about

that back then then you feel like the gilligan's guy would be getting the money for that right yeah they all knew that like that's the like that's where the money is at the sweetest plum is trust lori uh wrote the words to the theme song of uh two and a half men what i didn't know that he does and you know what do you remember what that man are? Men, men, manly men? Is that basically it? He wrote the lyrics to that, and so now he gets part of the residuals for the theme song to Two and a Half Men.

Quite a scam. What a great band. Though he wrote the Ninja Turtles theme song, which is also just Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. There's a few more lyrics. They're like, what do you think? And he just delivers the title of the show like copy-pasted like 30 times.

Well, I did not know he did that for two and a half minutes. Isn't there enough money at some point, Lori? Never. Never enough. Never enough. Without Bob Denver, we would not have Shaggy from Scooby-Doo because he played Manergy Krebs on the many lives of Dobie Gillis. What was that again?

Loves. Many loves. I was thinking of Garfield. I always am. But yes, Shaggy based on Manergy Krebs on the many lives of Dobie Gillis. What was that again? Loves. Many loves. I was thinking of Garfield like I always am. But yes, Shaggy based on Energy Krebs, Bob Denver. Bob Denver, he was a funny actor. He was really good at the stuff he had to do. I think Gene and Reese learned to

they first worked with him on the season two episode of ALF that was a Gilligan reunion of all the not dead people in 87. So, and yeah, Bob Denver no longer with us though. But we can still hear him in audio form right now. And another thing, when people come up to me and say, hey, little buddy, and hit me over the head with a hat,

that's not funny. That hurts. Stop laughing at me. You know, Marge, joining the the reserves was the best thing i ever did i feel good about myself i'm helping my country and later i'm gonna get gilligan's autograph i'm so proud of you homie then i'll whomp him with my hat apparently this uh uso show that bob denver does just him complaining about how he's treated because it cuts to him and he says, and another thing.

Well, the joke, yeah, well, the joke too is that they get the, in the reserves, they get the worst people. So Bob Denver is also participating in a joke

about how he sucks and would be a bad person to book. And he's there with Cindy Williams who is Shirley on Laverne and Shirley. Ah.

So the other show is Bob Hope and Cindy Crawford. She's dead too, isn't she? Is she dead? I thought they're both... When Penny Marshall died,

I thought that also that people were talking about how they're like reunited in heaven now. You know what? I don't think she is. They don't have like a life tether to the...

Yeah. So she's still alive. Oh, good. All right. Then you know what? I'm going to play our anti-death jingle to protect Cindy.

Welcome to the show. I ain't dead yet. Then Bart goes to get his ears pierced. And on the commentary, they are, I think, rightly proud that they were doing Starbucks jokes before a lot of people were doing them. Especially in 1995 when this joke was written. Jack, where did you grow up? I don't remember. I grew up here in LA.

Okay, that's what I thought. I grew up in the valley. So Starbucks were there basically very, very early in your life, right? I don't think I remember a time when Starbucks didn't exist. Okay. Like the internet, I'm like, it may have not been there for some time in my life, but I was not cognizant. Interesting, yeah. So the first Starbucks that opened up in my town was actually inside of a Barnes & Noble.

It was like the Trojan horse. And that was 96. So I was only aware of Starbucks in 96, but I didn't know it was a big deal until shows started talking about it. And I'm stealing this comment from Amber Lee Frost from Chapo Trap House, where there are so many people who they're kind of right when they're like Starbucks, they burn their beans, their coffee's not so great. Amber pointed out on a podcast once, like they brought good coffee to places that didn't know coffee could be good. we should respect them for that uh not howard schultz of course but i didn't know i enjoyed coffee until starbucks entered my life like i can drink this i mean

have you not a gray mess that is comes from a brick have you tried the parents uh have you tried the coffee your parents drink like maxwell house and folgers it tastes like like it was strained through a mummy it tastes like shit compared to starbucks so yes uh we can at least credit starbucks for that i mean they raise the bar of american coffee sure yeah in my area of orange park florida where i was i spent 10 to 25 i didn't see a starbucks i feel like until like 2002 or 2003 and when they showed up, my reaction was like, oh, the thing from TV that everybody jokes about. I guess we're finally getting them here.

I remember working at it. This will end soon, by the way, the Starbucks chat. But I remember in 2007, a year after this, sorry, a decade after this episode, I was working a shitty, terrible temping job in the basement of a bank with just miserable people. And instead of just like going up to the convenience store and buying lottery tickets and scratching them off at my desk during my lunch break like everybody else i was like i'm gonna go out for lunch so i i went out on the way back i got a starbucks at the drive-thru i brought

back starbucks they're like oh mr big shot with the starbucks just like i just paid two bucks for a black coffee uh yeah i think star i mean hollywood can't exist without starbucks now the one the joke about it being everywhere when i went to seattle for the first time i was like oh that's not a joke it is every single thing and my mom gets me starbucks gift cards like all the time uh because i live in california i'm sorry yeah i mean they're every fucking where here too and i remember that being the case like since i was well like since i was a kid now i think uh one if it's not starbucks it's just another thing that is starbucks like pete's coffee or something like

pete's or one of the ones that's owned by the nazis that own krispy kreme or something oh yeah or michael avenatti michael avenatti owned tully's for a little while what that yeah that was like in all the like he owned tully's and he like stopped paying taxes on all the employees withheld taxes and just kept it for himself. But yeah, Michael Avenatti owned Tully's for a while. I did not know that, man. I've not been that shocked since learning that Steve Bannon owns a piece of Seinfeld. For some reason, Tully's is all over Japan more than Starbucks is. I don't know why.

At least in Tokyo. It was in one of those indictments. He bought Tully's and then stopped paying the taxes. When Bart comes back with his ear pierced with a cup of coffee, it turned into a Starbucks as his ears were being pierced, which I like that. That was clever. But then when he gets home, that's when Lisa has her, again,

very good pronouncement of just like, oh, in a conformist sort of way, it's very rebellious. I like that. I also like that Homer starts talking about how he's a disgrace to the proud naval tradition of his family. When Bart goes to school, everybody's got their ear pierced. Now, I do believe when I was in elementary school up to 1994, and even in middle school, you couldn't, and boys couldn't have pierced ears. It was against the rule, though I grew up in a rather conservative suburb of Florida. When people get their ears pierced, young young people at least in the 90s i felt like it was very gendered

in which the girls of course would have like sparkly earrings or dangly earrings and the boys always have the standard i'm not gay like little ring little hoop or eventually in the in the late 90s the plugs like the gauges or whatever i don't care for those by the way but uh you can do that to yourself if you want. Look, hey, whatever you want to do with those earlobes, fine by me. Yeah, I don't give a shit what anyone does with their ears, to be honest with you.

Cut them off. Who needs them? Honestly, yeah. Do a fucking Van Gogh. He was cool. You could hear stuff with just the holes in your head, like, I think. But that is the, you know what?

We just found the next level of gauges after that cutting off your ears uh ralph saying he has two owies with his earring and also there's no real end to bart's that should make him go like oh i don't want an earring after he sees everybody has one but there's kind of no follow-up to that he's still happy to have his earring yeah and then we get uh a pre george w bush nuclear gag yeah you know the i'm friend of the show who's done the uh adam h johnson he actually he uh from citations needed podcast a great podcast he talks about how like he grew up in texas and it was just it wasn't accepted he still says it that way and he's like it's not a mispronunciation it's a different pronunciation yeah it's just regional it's regional yeah i think linguists would even

say that and i mean that was just like the one gotcha for george hw sorry george w bush it's like there are there are bigger fish to fry than him saying a word wrong he's stupid he said the word wrong that's why he's bad and dumb it was the orange man tiny hands of its time this uh as we're recording this it's about a month ago this time but that that article that jack you've on jack am interviewed the writer of it that was really great mike miles clee miles clee miles clee is our i'm just gonna cut they spell and pronounce their names differently miles damn now i have to keep it in because that's a funny reference i'm sorry anyway yeah his uh his article about the stagnation at late night stand a comedy which you're an expert in as well like

that the nuclear thing just made me think back to it too just like how also that the light mockery of w i think is partially to blame for why the fucking war criminals of the bush administration are just on tv now and it well he's cute he's cute and funny the way that uh you know he's like obama hugged him president or whatever yeah i i remember today that uh there was an hour-long like movie where johnny depp played trump and we all forgot about it yeah yeah yeah yeah the funny or die movie that was like a big funny or die thing by the way the big flaw with that i think is that like they're in the middle of a presidential you know primary like the news is moving so fast every single day your thing is what you're gonna do is double down on a big huge long form piece of content that will exist for one day uh and that's what you're gonna make your your websites

like whole prerogative for months at that point. Well, hey, the proof is in the pudding with how successful it still is today. You got him. But yeah, so Homer gets assigned to a nuclear sub, which I would think after he destroyed the USS New Jersey, he probably shouldn't be put on there. But once he gets assigned to it. Well, he also got promoted because of what? He was asking questions or something like that or making jokes or something? Yeah. Well, that's also because Captain

Tennille, we'll meet in a sec, he's insane. Like, that's also why. And then, once the rain starts, this is the first Crimson Tide scene of the episode, because the plot of Crimson Tide actually feels more relevant today, because it's about the reigniting of

Russia versus America America and a Putin style figure takes over Russia in the plot of it and nuclear war might begin at any second that's the whole argument on the boat that Gene Hackman got half a transmission and he thinks it means we're at war now launch our fucking nukes and Denzel says it could mean we're not at war now and don't launch the nukes and that's the whole argument which is basically just the uber heightening of an argument with your dad about like how to fix the plumbing or something that's that's how i read it and i actually uh it's a fun it's a i think it's a good movie with a really good cast of like james gandolfini vigo mortensen yeah

denzel gene hackman like it's a it's it's not a bad film to watch it with your father on father's day it's a it's a but aborting the sub happens in the rain and i did find out though that they didn't get navy backing for uh like free subs and stuff to film it because the navy didn't like that it was about a mutiny on a sub because they're like oh this will make people think it could happen so instead they had to like go to the french military and get one of their subs interesting stuff so despite it being propaganda for the navy and only being nice to the navy the navy actually didn't even give them money for it unlike top gun which brookheimer had produced 10 years previous uh and then we also have a very family guy moment of remember rock'em sock'em Robots. This really brought back thought balloons into Simpsons for sure.

The can't we all just get along thing was from the LA riots. Yeah. Also, they shouldn't stop it. Don't do that anymore. Maybe don't do that joke anymore. No. I do like Homer's line of, well, when I was 10, I got Mayer's peers, but that was totally different. I like that dad logic there.

That's funny. It's very much like his I Like Stories speech. But yes, time to play the death jingle for a second time. I think a record second time this episode. This episode's a real graveyard. But yes, for our second guest of the episode. Death stalks you at every turn. There it is, death!

Rod Steiger died in 2002. Mm-hmm. You know, I guess he's most famous for On the Waterfront, where he plays Marlon Brando's brother, or he's, I believe, the guy who isn't Sidney Poitier in The Heat of the Night. He played a lot of racist strongmen. That was kind of the box he got put into. And he's a real World War II vet, too,

so he kind of brings a real sense of the military to his roles which makes him good for casting in this uh i mean he kind of feels like the previous generations michael ironside i think captain tenille is not a funny joke uh we talked before about i'm glad they only say his name once at least they gave him a name yeah that's true that's true some guest characters don't get names very family guy very family guy yeah they would have they would have belabored it a little bit more i think he would have sung a captain into neil song yeah in case you don't know and let's not play it because it sucks love will keep us together they sung that song captain into neil right it's a i mean maybe

honestly maybe they wanted to put it in this episode but they're like you have the budget for the village people or captain into neil which which are you going to spend it on? We gotta take village people. Got to. But yes, let's hear old Rod in his premiere. Attention on deck. Captain Tennille wishes to address you.

I'm a man of few words. And a question. Is the poop deck really what I think I'm a man of few words. Any questions? Is the poop deck really what I think it is? I like the cut of your jib. What's a jib? Promote that, man. The Navy has a fine sense of tradition. Whenever an American vessel leaves port, the crew sings this ancient sea chanty.

A one, a two, a three, a four. In the Navy? Yes. Yes. One thing before we start groaning, that little sting that you heard, that's not Simpsons-like. It's a take on the Hans Zimmer theme from Crimson Tide. It's what Kojima would take off to make all the Metal Gear music. Hans Zimmer-y stuff is very much that sort of

militaristic. In 95, that was very novel, the Hans Zimmer themes. But it was before he wrote every music for films now. That what's a jib line is more clever than I thought because that is a naval term about a sail. A jib is part of a sail. So Homer saying what's a jib is him failing to know one of the most basic naval terms there is. So it's a little more clever than just him being stupid. It's a nice exaggeration also the way he likes Homer, like, I like you. You've got the spunk. When Homer is just incompetent and gets everything wrong and he's clearly not fit for this job. So the posing is actually very similar to Crimson Tide 2. Really? Okay.

There's a scene of Gene Hackman is having a conversation with Denzel, which he's actually not that friendly to Denzel Washington's character in the film, but basically Homer and Rod Steiger are in the same position as Gene Hackman and Denzel in that scene. And they're talking about like, oh, we're going to war. Look at the surface one last time. And they're smoking cigars together. And even the scene where Gene Hackman throws his cigar into the ocean

the same way Rod Steiger does it too. These are all just references we do every day when it comes to ties. And though in the movie, he doesn't say, we sing a song, and then they sing a song together. But when the sub goes underwater, it starts to play the real naval hymn, Eternal Father Strong to Save. I was like, to all the sailors in the sea. So not Anchors Away or In the Navy. No, no. It's a very somber song about how brave our naval men are.

Not in the Navy, an incredibly tired, lame song to use in 1998. I hate it. I hate this scene actually quite a lot. Well, they kill the village people. The only thing I think that makes it a little better is that there's a shot of their various paraphernalia surfacing as if they're dead at the bottom of the ocean. With Smithers. Smithers is dead. They also miscolor the black guy the village people the cop is an african-american and they make him yellow in this like so fuck man that's erasure on top of

yeah well you sure know a lot about the village people henry it's it was just in 98 it was hacked like way Wayne's World 2 did a Village People gag in like 94, and it was kind of getting old then. And then I really think like the nadir joke-wise for me in this episode is Smithers. Also, and there's like, there's already five gay panic jokes in this episode. Like it's a lot. Oh yeah, we did miss Barney pinning up a picture of Homer in a swimsuit. Yes, exactly.

And then to have Smithers there, which they usually treat Smithers' gayness more respectfully than this when they joke about it. Instead of just like, well, who would be dancing with the fag group? Oh, it would be Smithers. I can say that I'm gay. It's true. They just won an Emmy for Homer's phobia. Yes. And then they have a Village People joke.

Right. By the way, I just looked it up and In the Navy came out in 1979. So this is now a nearly full 20 years after the song actually was released.

I mean, well, they actually even talk about it on the commentary. Reese says that he tried to use YMCA in his Queer Duck movie

like five years, no, eight years after this episode. And that's what the Philippines were like. We're not a gay band anymore. We don't eight years after this episode and that's what the philippines were like we're not a gay band anymore we don't license it for this we're a kids band yeah we're a children's band like they might be giants or weezer yeah right but yes in your professional writing opinion jack using a using a village people song how how funny is that i just am like you know it feels very you know xer

it feels very like gen xer kind of boomery kind of humor to me it's never like been my thing it's like i don't actually find anything funny about there having been a gay band you know what i mean it kind of feels like the thing here is that like it's uh it's's funny or novel that gay people are singers, kind of, and flamboyant. And I'm like, I don't know. In the world I grew up in, there have been a lot of flamboyant and some gay singers. It's not a novelty to me. They're not the only one. You know what I mean?

I'm sure there are historical reasons for this stereotype, but gayness is associated with the Navy a lot, and not just because of the village people. I don't know what went into that. Well, theremen and they're all it's a bunch of men but a bunch of men get together in a lot of contexts and they're all fucking i guess whoa whoa yeah i mean yeah they i feel like they say it about the army too but i actually just do i do think that probably just the semen thing and yeah and like the outfits uh i don't know like but they used to say about the army and all of it yeah yeah well then i mean the connecting of dots is so easy there too i'm just like you already have the joke of all these men together they're away from women i guess they're on the sea in a close space

yeah so you have the seaman jokes right there and then the village people a gay band makes a song about the navy which they in 79 they made up that song in the same they did the song, which they, in 79, they made up that song in the same, they did the song just like they did the YMCA song about how the YMCA is where you fuck. The Navy is where you fuck. That was the statement they were making. That was the working title for the song, The Navy is Where You Fuck. Yeah. That was the name of the album, right?

The Places We Fuck. All the places uh and yeah to now see the kids sing ymca all the time is very strange to me also can you still get a good meal at the ymca i bet you don't i bet you don't get a free workout at the ymca it's expensive it's like 70 bucks a month yeah uh you and you don't do whatever you feel there do you know i get out as soon as i can it's full of old men's penises homer then go has a dinner with the captain and really impresses him well because the captain is insane which at least they make that clear of like he has nitrogen bubbles in his brain he has lost his mind like that's kind of the point that gene hackman is like he has to gene hackman has too much power on the ship they make a point at the end of the film that like that at the time a submarine a nuclear

sub captain can choose to fire the missiles on their own and then after that the president changed they made it so only the president can do that but yeah they have a dinner scene together too though it actually is where gene hackman starts to distrust denzel washington more where he's like you have some younger person's nuance to this stuff harvard boy i say you just blow shit up i'm simple but so it's the opposite of this scene yeah every again if they're trying to make it a crimson tide reference they're going in the opposite direction but yes here's here's homer taking the con tell me young, what do you want out of life? I want peace. We all want peace, but it's always just out of reach.

So what's the best way to get peace? With a knife. Exactly. Not with the olive branch, but the bayonet. Simpson, you're like the son I never had. And you're like the son I never had. And you're like the father I never visited. Sir, I was running a diagnostic and there was an obstruction in torpedo tube number one. I'll take care of it. What the hell?

Simpson, while I'm gone, you're in command. Me? Him? Yes. Maybe it's the salt water in my veins or the nitrogen bubbles in my brain, but I've taken a real shine to you and also that's pamela hayden they're playing the woman on the ship who doesn't have a name this uh that's apocryphal because the government did not allow women on naval subs until 2010 oh really wow okay

the fear was that if you're in a club if the the understanding was in the Navy that you just have all these men in this remote location for days or weeks at a time, you don't want several women on there. And it was better to let women be disenfranchised than risk what the men would do. So like TV writing. Oh, come on. I thought you were going there. You also find out that it's one of the secret places that all the gays go to have sex. You know what I mean? If a woman was there, they'd be able to report back.

They mess it up. They just kill the whole vibe. Well, actually, there's two women on this sub. Barney's mom, which I now realize from her outfit, like, she's an officer. She's a high-level person in the Navy. And she's referenced, but this is her, like, one appearance on the show. I think so, yeah. Yeah.

Barney has relatives that are identical to him like his uncle and his mother are just him in like different outfits uh but i do like uh dan's voice on her is uh it's funny and lazy it's both and uh actually here is in the very next scene, the captain, Tenniel, crawls into a torpedo shoot and Homer kills him. Ooh, comfy. Homer, we got an enemy sub closing in fast. What do we do? I don't know. Fifteen seconds to collision. We need a decision.

What would the captain say in my spot? Don't fire the torpedoes! Fire the torpedoes! We've been hit by an officer! If they're going to fire on us, we'll respond in kind. Fire! Not me, a torpedo! So this is the first person we've truly seen Homer kill on screen.

He's killed plenty of people off screen or unseen. We do see his corpse. Yeah, that's true. So this is the first person we've truly seen Homer kill on screen. He's killed plenty of people off screen or unseen. We do see his corpse. Yeah, that's true. He's just dead. Like there's no, they could do a joke later. He's like, it's amazing you survived or whatever, but he's just dead. He's dead. Yeah.

So this part of the plot, I mean, it's a loose parody, but I just don't understand. Like these are war games. So why, I mean, why would they take this seriously? Why would they not see it as an accident? Why do they have live ammo? I don't understand. These are war games, so why would they take this seriously? Why would they not see it as an accident? Why do they have live ammo? I don't understand. They don't really set up what these war games are or the stakes or what they have to do.

In fact, I don't really know what a war game really is in the context of submarines. They're not firing paintballs at each other. Based on Top Gun, you shoot fake missiles that just register like you were hit by a missile and yet these are real explosives that go off when they fire at each other these aren't like other countries that are attacking the subs they're just attacking a they think a sub that had a mutiny i don't know i don't know yeah it just feels like kind of like they wanted to have a underwater fight scene and

it didn't like fit in the plot where they were because america's not at war you know what i mean so uh it just feels like kind of like a convenience well i am this this torpedo fight does happen in crimson tide there is a sub fight but for that they actually the first five minutes of crimson tide is just a fake cnn story on how russia got taken over by separatists so they at least explain why there is a russian sub sub that they are shooting at each other right uh though i think that just feels like an attempt to spice up the action because there's enough intensity on the ship of just men arguing but i think they're like no we need a re we need some explosions in here for like trailers at least uh yeah so it seems weird that in war

games the other ship fires explosive rounds with the intent to kill other people in a navy sub that the more you deconstruct it the crazier it sounds even if homer was given the con i bet there are rules to take the con away from him after he kills the i would hope so otherwise the navy the navy needs to fix those rules if they can't yeah i that's i'm i'm i feel very strongly about that the navy needs to fix those rules if they can't yeah i that's i'm i'm i feel very strongly about that the navy needs to close those homer simpson loopholes uh and so homer's the captain now everybody is uh very upset at that he mo is his uh basically his checkoff here i guess well there's a sulu yeah there's so he can't be sulu so he's check off uh yeah it's a little

star trek in here too also when homer wipes the sweat from his head that's another very crimson tide moment like at least twice in the movie denzel washington or gene hackman takes their hat off and wipes the sweat off boy they really thought crimson tide would stick with us didn't they it's like remember the classic sweat wiping scene from crimson tide like i i mean i'm sure it's a good movie but it's just not it's not a thing you really thought there going to be the people out there in the audience being like, this doesn't follow Crimson Tide. I was there three years ago. I know. I mean, credit to Milton Gray and his animation team that they bothered to do those things,

bothered with those specifics. We come back from the commercial break and they've lost all their power or they're down to mood lighting. And that also lets them do more crimson tide references some of the most memorable stuff to me now in crimson tide is just the lighting when they're down to just there's some really great scenes of like gene hackman is pointing a gun at vigo mortensen's head and vigo's face is like half red and half blue and gene hackman's face is all red it's like the lighting is it's uh bob you had a term for uh modern youtuber lighting yes i've heard people call that in positive terms bisexual lighting yeah but that's not my place to say talking about that today on jack am i never heard about this before but bisexual lighting i guess it's like purple pink and blue i yeah i've

seen that from the buys in my twitter feed they the last the first time i'd heard of that term was uh in that movie uh two years ago now atomic blonde the charlie starle movie where her character is bi in the film like she she has a male lover and a female lover and then in a couple scenes she is lit in that way i think that led a lot of people to use that terminology of bisexual lighting or that's at least the first time I'd seen that from the queers I follow on the Twitter. But yes, Homer is the captain now,

and it's a perfect time to take a shot at Ross from friends. Damage report, Mr. Moe. Sonar out. Navigation out. Radio out. Enough of what's out.

What's in? I splendid mocha drinks and David swimmer. Yes, he is handsome in an ugly sort of way. Captain, how are we supposed to get home with no equipment? Don't worry, I've been working on it. Yes, uh-huh. Carry the two.

Alright, I can't waste any more time. People's lives are depending on me. Mr. Sulu, make a left. Aye, aye, Captain. Setting course for Rigel 7. I can't waste any more time. People's lives are depending on me. Mr. Sulu, make a left. Aye, aye, Captain. Setting course for Rigel 7. I mean home. That's it. Left. Left. Steady as she goes. And second thought, go right. So looks aside, we've said it before on this podcast, but Ross from Friends should be in jail. The character is an awful person. I've said this before, but look up the lawsuit about the writers of Friends and the writers from there.

I think they expressed a lot of those feelings through Ross's creepiness. Interesting. When you really care about someone, you shout it from the mountaintops. So on behalf of Desjardins Insurance, I'm standing 20,000 feet above sea level to tell our clients that we really care about you. We care about you. We care about you. Home and auto insurance personalized to your needs.

Weird, I don't remember saying that part. Visit Desjardins.com slash care and get insurance that's really big on care. Care, care. Did I mention that we care? Oh, yeah. Have you not heard about this, Jack? No, I haven't read about this.

I'm going to look this up. Yeah, look it up. It's a fun story about the locker room feel of a great writer's room. I'm not a fan of this. I feel like I know a little bit about this. I've never really read that deeply about it, though, but I shall.

It was a big settlement, right? Yeah. No, no. I think they lost the case. Oh, never mind then. I'm not a big settlement right yeah um you know no i think they lost the case oh never mind there uh i'm not a big fan of the sulu joke i hate the punch-up simpsons jokes but i feel like it could have been funnier if homer just talking to like an asian guy he calls him sula's like my name is josh or something like that he's like got a white name that's my punch up for 1998 i i like that yeah i just it feels very critique that he says mr sulu and he is

there yeah in critic jay sherman just is around movie parodies and characters are around him they're very much in that mindset where it's just like the parodies happen the characters can be there right my theory exists in simpsons and he worked with homer my theory is that they thought they could get george to k and then they did to kai that's right wait no it's okay it's okay damn it i yeah i said it right the first time and i doubt did to kai that's right wait no it's okay it's okay damn it i yeah i said it right the first time and i doubted myself they thought that they could get him and then they couldn't and so well we already animated it let's just let's just go with it i mean it's uh you know look there's there's other things to make fun of ross ford than just his

looks that feels a little below the belt there's a good joke about homer's bad drawings too then they invade russia which the the russian scare stuff actually feels realer now yeah well sure but that shit was funny as hell actually i think that this whole sequence was like mega funny oh it's actually maybe like i for the whole episode thought that i hadn't seen this episode before until this sequence at the un through uh russia i was like oh yeah i guess i must have seen this episode because this is like a super funny part i remember i see that gift sarcastically whenever people are freaking out about russia gate or russian collusion just like someone will post that gif in response yeah well in this in the dsa type forum spaces the lenin frankenstein meme is used non-ironically yeah Yeah, that's true. It's like, we want this.

The sequence was really funny. Yeah, I like, well, first before that, we do get this quick clip of the news story on Homer's treasonous acts. Well, sir, treason season started early this year as a nuclear sub was hijacked by local man Homer Simpson. Oh, my God. I told him that photo would come back to haunt him good homer simpson be

a communist his father spoke out on his behalf my homer is not a communist he may be a liar a pig an idiot a communist but he is not a porn star they just hold on him just a little extra long yeah he does a little uh blink they stay on him for another blink again lisa commenting on like just snidely about the plot like why did he take that picture at least it's just like a little sourpuss in this episode i like i like a good file photo guy yeah it's like doing the cossack dance i like a joke that implies more story to it like why okay why did homer take that photo what what caused this abe not doing him any favors and forgetting what he's even talking about in the middle of his speech i like that and uh saving saving sherry but not terry it's a fun little joke it's like

for some reason they brought her up to the stage to say she will die that's a really great joke yeah this stuff is some of the funniest and i I think meme-wise, you have lasting impact. The rebirth of the Soviet Union is the most long-lasting. For sure. Actually, must crush capitalism. Let's give it a listen. The Soviet Union will be pleased to offer amnesty to your wayward vassal. The Soviet Union?

I thought you guys broke up. Yes, that's what we wanted you to think must crush capitalism children i'll be frank in the event of nuclear war we can only save our best and brightest therefore space in the Fallout Shelter will be reserved for Lisa Simpson, Martin Prince, our championship kickball team, and Sherry, but not Terry.

I like that joke. No, that whole sequence is great. I think Jan Kirkman actually believes that part, though. I would widen it out, actually. The sequence, like, right before they go into the U.N., that was a funny joke, too, when they cut to the U.N. building and it's, like, a hillbilly, like, selling, like, groceries

on the side of the road, and he's like, over there. I was like, that's a very funny joke, too. Yeah, that's a good joke, too. Yeah, it was more visual. I should have included that one. Oh, you know, I'm not saying you should have included it. I was just saying that that's a good joke too yeah it was more visual i should have included that one but you know i'm not thinking you should have included i was just saying that that's another i wanted to point out another time when i thought the episode was funny yeah this they get a lot of good stuff out of the u and though i get this is the reason i say this episode is as non-canon

as sherry bobbins because the ussr now re-exists that's true yeah of Simpsons. Yeah, I guess I didn't think about the joke that much. And I overthink everything. I didn't overthink that. It's like, oh yeah, they're back. Yeah, they exist again, and the village people are dead as well. Oh my God. I don't know. Again, I'm like, make this like a dream or something.

It's so easy to not have the first 15 minutes of this show being intricately setting up how this can exist in the universe, and then this fucking Soviet Union exists again. There's no American scandal about the Navy attacking its own ships. This whole Russia thing, that's not what happens in Crimson Tide. But I've got to thank them for must-crush capitalism in a non-ironic way. Thank you, guys. The whole thing is really funny.

The parade turning into tanks is really, really funny. All the flags unfolding. It's great. It's a funny idea. They have been hiding those things in their parades all these years to just get the order. It took that guy saying, I thought you guys broke up. And then that's what launches the return of the Soviet Union. Someone questioning it.

That almost does qualify as a family guy-ish joke, but it's done so well and smartly that I don't want to classify it like that. And we go back to the ship. There's a leak in there in the hull. Barney has a very vaudeville gag of not knowing what water is and uh yeah he talks about the pinhole leak so this moment kind of isn't in crimson tide there's uh this is just the crimson tide report now but that so there is a bit where the hall is leaking and denzel washington has to i don't remember his character name he's just denzel denzel tells

he gives the order to like those guys aren't going to be able to be saved lock them up so they can drown because otherwise the water will spread to the entire sub and that makes everybody on the sub hate him because he chooses to kill those guys that's the only leak in the film oppositely denzel washington who is the homer equivalent in this episode he does save people in a fire so it's kind of putting the fire and the leak together from crimson tide and it's plotting though homer swimming under the water to plug the leak that's feels like it's from a different movie like but it's a poseidon adventure or something right yeah maybe that's it i do like how he has to swim uh he doesn't have to swim but he does swim yeah the water he can just like float above the water that's a good joke yeah but he still wants to go under to make it

dramatic yeah that's actually pretty good yeah they do cheat because when he goes underwater when he goes under uh to the lower level the water's at the top where the ladder is but when he goes down it's like you know he can still float around but whatever it's a fun joke it's a fun joke yeah i didn't laugh too hard at uh i'm with admiral stupid as a t-shirt that not that fun but i i do like that in mo's dreams as he's thinking of his cat even then he gets angry he just can't he can't relax he's still that man and then there's the only apu joke about how much he loves his malfunctioning cigarette machine which in 98 i feel like those were yeah i guess you'd still find them but i do like the the very shrewd apu though yes like don't ever change apu jokes that are about him being a like cheap guy who rips

people off that's that's better than going to the indian category for jokes i prefer those and uh but that's the only reason they have apu there seemingly because that they do one joke just for that i i mean i guess it's to make you care more if you're like oh not a poo he's in danger like no but who's watching this worried that anybody's gonna die who's watching the quickie mart as march would say who's sorry who's minding the quickie mart uh but yes then homer homer comes up he calls him mr mo which okay so now i see that as another gay joke as like to the al gina mike reese's generation calling someone a mo was calling them a homo so right i didn't catch that until now that that

could be why most his lack is mad he's being called mr moe it feels also feels like a mutiny on the bounty reference because like mr christian or whatever like you call navy guys mr for some reason i don't know they're calling everybody mr okay is that a navy thing mister is like a navy title i've risen to the rank of mister it's just about respect i guess on the vessel like mr blank tell mr i think the navy ranks are mr doctor and uh i don't know captain crunch captain crunch that's the man at the top but yes homer then decides now is the time to resurface just very like shrug well i guess the stories we've only got a few minutes left so let's put the sub up again which that there's no plot reason to do that when he does it but whatever

there's no plot reason they stopped trying to kill him either yep yeah no there's no point to it but homer after plumber does plug the pinhole leak with the earring. So give them credit that the B story connected with the A story. That doesn't always happen in their plotting. They brought that together in the laziest way. Also, I would think the pressure of the ocean would shove that out the second you tried to put it in there. But I'm no scientist. But yes, Homer surfaces back up,

and this honestly felt like it could have been the end of the episode. As nonchalantly as they treated just doing the callback to first day, that could just be the end of it. But here's the clip. You have 10 seconds to explain your actions before we open fire.

It's my first day. Es mi dia primero. It's my first day They left their ship They jumped off of their ship That's dangerous I think, you know Mandarin speakers out there tell me if Homer actually did say... According to Algin and Mike Reese, they got the actual language, which they did not do in the past often. I like that. It's at least, you know, they go to the trouble to call somebody. I like that.

But yeah, that's pretty much the end of the episode right there. But they have to shove in the end of Crimson Tide after that. Yeah, apparently that shot of the guy outside with a dog is from Crimson Tide as well. This ending is the exact ending of Crimson Tide. So if you've not seen Crimson Tide here, I'll tell you what happens at the very end. There is no nuclear war. Denzel Washington succeeds and proves Gene Hackman wrong. Gene Hackman being proven wrong breaks his heart and he resigns from the military they have a

naval tribunal which should be them saying to gene hackman you almost ended the world you go to jail but instead he has a friend on the tribunal who says i will accept your resignation now and we will never speak of this which uh it's that's the happy ending of the movie it works out for everybody and and also yes the whole movie gene hackman has a dog like they talk in the beginning of like he is so valued by the navy that they let him bring a dog on the submarine so he has like a little jack russell terrier which he says the smartest of the breeds and uh and so when he and denzel washington are before the tribunal stage in the exact way the episode does it, too, they have an establishing shot of the tribunal at Pearl Harbor and a serviceman is walking his dog.

So that's why there's a little weird pull. It's it's it's an extreme specific. Yeah. And same with when they walk off into the sunset together. That's the last shot of Gene Hackman in the movie too of him walking away with his dog and i thematically i read it as them saying that era of the navy is over it's for younger men like denzel who have more nuance see they he's it's not a time for warriors anymore which funny how that was the message there too here's how the tribunal plays out in simpsons

seaman simpson your actions have given the navy a black eye from which it may never recover the tribunal plays out in Simpsons. Seaman Simpson, your actions have given the Navy a black eye from which it may never recover. I would throw the book at you, but I've been indicted in the tailhook scandal. Goodbye. I too would punish you, but I'm under indictment for accepting bribes

from military contractors. Um, I torpedoed a Carnival cruise ship. Impersonating the first lady i think you're off the hook boy another tailhook reference on the simpsons a little a little too late again uh it was a 91 thing we talked a bit about it on who shot mr burns part two that episode because smithers says he feels about as low as madonna when she found out she missed tailhook you got that from pardon my zinger but it was this like military u.s marine corps convention or like um a tradition of it a meeting or a group or whatever where an astounding amount of people

were sexually assaulted like 83 women and seven men it's uh it's horrible yeah it's uh but that's how that's how funny sexual assault was back then I don't think you'd make jokes about that anymore. But it was very much like a tail hook was a punchline. Yeah, totally. But I guess this was the era when military scandals were possible. Yeah. Also, well, yeah, when the guy says he's indicted for taking military bribes, I'm like, come on. That's just business.

I know. I mean, it really does like, this is an interesting time capsule episode just for the attitude about the military then and now. You know what I mean? I thought this scene was very funny, but it did sort of come from this idea of the military is laughable and no one takes it seriously. Yeah, and that people cared about their scandals either. not even military but like the blackwater guys the amount of work it takes to get any of them for like murder of the war crimes they have the genocide they would commit that should tell you how little america cares about what our military does which i i'm sorry troops if you if you're listening this podcast i don't there's uh there's bad things bad things are going on guys oh but

yeah this uh now this the joking about that then feels very different from now like i think in 2001 they never would have made these jokes never ever like they even if they would have wanted to like the pressure you think the fox executives were the censors would have let them make fun of military service people even if they had wanted to i right i i highly doubt that yeah when you also have to like you have to if you want to critique the military you first have to say 800 times beforehand in your joke. But I love the military. They're the greatest.

Of course, I respect the service members who are the true heroes of our age. Them and the first responders. But with that said, I'll tell a joke about the military now. I'm attacking the institution, not the people. Exactly. Nothing but respect. But we have our dishonorable ending here just to complete our episode. Let's play the clip.

A dishonorable discharge. It's the best we could have hoped for. You can't spell dishonorable without honorable. I think you're a hero, Dad. Well, I couldn't have done it without Bart. Boy, I guess I was wrong about that earring. It saved us all then can i get a tattoo that says bite me you never know when it might come in handy i don't think so son

a king cobra no weapons great plutonium ask your mother knockout drops no ninja death stars maybe for christmas that ending also feels like a like season one episode ending yeah the characters well actually the end of the Homer's, no, the happy family one, like them walking away from Marvin Monroe. Yeah, that's right. Like walking down the street,

like having a back and forth. Yeah. It definitely feels old school in that way. I mean, it's not- No disgrace like home. Sorry. Like a fade out ending.

Yeah. Songs just sort of lower the volume at the end. Yeah. It could have just, I mean, it could have just ended with there's no dishonorable, that honorable, because the back and forth with him and Bart is not like super It could have just ended with there's no dishonorable that honorable

because the back and forth with him and Bard is not super funny. Or he ended on Homer's woo-hoo. That feels like a hard enough slap, like no one's punished, woo-hoo, the end. I do like Marge's line read on happily reading dishonorably discharged. Yeah, the best they could have hoped for.

I do like that, yeah. Dishonorably discharged yeah it's a and it does if we're talking about losing the family in episodes this does bring the family back into it i suppose i guess homer doesn't prove his earring at the end that we never see again yeah yeah i guess bart bart should again there's a new thing just have bart say a line like oh it's not cool anymore i don't wear them or or him saying like oh you want me to wear an earring i'm never gonna wear an earring dad or something i don't know and by the way mr burn says you can have your job back too yeah we didn't we didn't really finish that uh that plot element up they expect you to have forgotten he got fired yeah i mean i

did until we started doing this podcast it's like oh right he did get fired in this episode but yeah i guess that was uh simpson tied uh henry you added a lot of context i again like uh if you're listening out there and i hope you still are uh please let us know do you have memories of crimson tide like did this stick in your mind as much as other movies from that era like i don't know jurassic park or things that are still referenced today i just feel like i'm sure it's good and you say it's good henry but it's like there's so many tom clancy-ish hunter at october some of all fears submarine style movies that like this gets lots in the mix i think crimson tide's a good movie just because i like seeing good actors yell at each other and that's that's what the film is uh with really fun lighting but i mean it's and also i mean it is

military propaganda you're supposed to want to join the navy after you watch it like it is it is join the navy uh the movie i i still give it a thumbs up i this this episode um there are funny bits in it because there's just so many jokes i think that some have to succeed but yeah there's there's some real weaknesses here too and i think the to this point smithers dancing with the village people is maybe my least favorite joke in the series to this point. Yeah, and we can see how they don't have a writer's room to run an episode through. They have basically four people.

I feel like the rewrite room would have grown to so much that they'd have redone it. But that's just my guess. Yeah, any final thoughts on this one, Jack? Yeah, I mean, you know, my big takeaway is that

I had sworn I had seen every Simpsons episode, then when I was starting to watch this one, I was like, I think I've never seen this episode. And then I realized that I had through the Russia sequence. So I don't know. I mean, I think this episode, you know, it's maybe worth watching the Rocky and Bullwinkle couch gag and then the UN sequence through Russia. And that's about all you need. So we'll do our plugs once we're off the line with you, Jack.

Can you please tell us where we can find you and support you and your podcast? So I do the Struggle Session podcast, which you can find at patreon.com slash struggle session, and that's kind of like a lefty look at pop culture. And then I also do a daily Twitch stream every day with my wife. That's also out as a podcast now called JackAMFM.

But if you want to watch it live and with video, you can tune into twitch.tv slash jack am uh monday through friday uh at 7 a.m pacific every every weekday i love both of those things first off with struggle session i want to celebrate your your live viewing of the um rise of the skywalker trailer was very good as as was uh we talked about blade runner uh before i think and the the one you guys did with david hater was a really really The trailer was very good. As was, we talked about Blade Runner before, I think. And the one you guys did with David Hayter was a really, really good podcast. He's so great.

He's like a super, I was really impressed with David's sort of willingness to actually talk about structure and movies in a way that, you know, people in Hollywood are kind of like afraid to do that. I thought that was really cool. He's a great guy. That was a really fun episode to do. And Jack A.M. is a lot of of fun i can only watch it so many times a week because sometimes it makes me too sad yeah it's a brutal it's a pretty brutal day i mean look

it's the topical show so that's the one i'm doing where we're talking about what's going on in the world and so you know it reflects what's going on in the world sorry you know and uh and it things are not so great right now. And the fun games you have of people giving you bits to do certain things like the wheel phrase or the one you guys just did yesterday at the time

of this recording of reading from the Michael Ian Black and Meghan McCain book. Oh, God. You can do it at a page at a time. It's certainly hell, but...

America, you sexy bitch. But Kate, I mean... I'm surprised that Kate, my wife, does a really good Meghan McCain. I had no idea. She is so good at Meghan McCain. Like, just watch or listen for that. That intro they do

where they're just basically admitting, like, we have the same agent and we said we'd do a book and then we did a fake thing on Twitter where we agreed to write a book together. It is truly funny. Like, that it's supposed to be, like, a fun or exciting story that their agents know each other. That's so silly.

I hope that blood money was worth it for MIB. Yeah, I hope so, too. I mean, I do wish the best for Michael Ian Black, who I think is a funny guy. And I do hope he made a lot of money with the book that I happen to think sucks. And he shouldn't, like, be so nice about Meghan McCain just because his fucking agent paired him with her at one point. Also, the Michael Ian Black that I loved as a kid on States and V Variety and Stella, he would be the guy who now would be making fun of like,

man, I can't believe I did a book with that piece of shit, Meghan McCain. Do that joke, man. But instead he's like, no, I made a deal. She's my friend. I'm like, fuck you. That is so funny. It's like the idea that your agent just like pairs you with a lifelong friendship is so funny to me. But whatever.

This is not dumping on Michael E. Black. But anyway, yes. And your Twitter account is very, very funny. I guess it's at JackAllison, LOL. Don't fall for the imposter accounts. Just go to JackAllison, LOL. Hey, you know, I could probably get the fucking checkmark now that there's a million imposter accounts if I wanted it,

but I don't. The coolest people don't have the blue checkmark. But thank you so much. Thanks for having me, guys. It's been really fun to come on and talk with you guys. I'd be glad to come back anytime if you'll ever have me, and this has been a really great time. So thanks again to Jack Allison. Remember to check

out his podcast Struggle Session and Jack AM on his Twitch channel. Yeah, it's a lot of fun. He's a funny guy. And I love his caustic opinions on politics and the comedy industry that you'll find on Twitter. He's telling it like it is. Don't you hate pants, Jack? That's coming up next, isn't it? It's actually happened in the past.

Oh, my God. We're recording it next. Please, please just forget I said anything, but listen to me folks if you want to help support the show and get some cool bonuses uh please go to patreon.com talking simpsons everything we do is supported by that patreon and if you join at the five dollar level you will get everything that we do including what a cartoon and talking simpsons a week ahead of time and at the five dollar level we have a lot of bonuses dozens and dozens of bonus podcasts including all of our exclusive series the newest of which is talk king of the hill and henry what is our newer ten dollar tier

well if you guys are regular subscribers or you're just waiting to sign up at the ten dollar and up level you'll get to hear our monthly what a cartoon movie podcast where me and bob go over a different animated feature film once a month in the same Talking Simpsons style for up to and including three hours. You should listen to our most recent one if you sign up right now, Spider-Man Into the Spider-Verse, where I'm certain I said quite a lot of things about Peter Parker, my favorite fictional character. So please check that out too. $10 and up level. Patreon.com slash talking simpsons and i have been one of your hosts bob mackie you can find me on twitter as bob servo my other podcast is retro not it's a classic gaming podcast every monday and occasionally

on friday please go to retronauts.com or look for retronauts in your podcast machine and subscribe to it why don't you henry how about you you should follow me on Twitter at H-E-N-E-R-E-Y-G. That's where you get all your updates from the Henry Gilbert world, which includes whenever new podcasts go live on the Patreon or on the free feeds or also my own political and comedy thoughts. I'm only just copying Jack.

He's my inspiration. No, but definitely follow me on Twitter, H-E-N-E-R-E-Y-G. Thanks a lot for listening, folks. We'll see you next week for The Trouble with Trillions. And we'll see you then. ¶¶ There, the perfect sheep tank. Very nice, Simpson. But next time, tie the other end to the ship. Thank you.