Talking Simpsons - Talking Simpsons - Simpsons Roasting On An Open Fire Redux With Ian Jones-Quartey and Toby Jones

Episode Date: December 25, 2019

It's a special anniversary this week as we celebrate the Simpsons Christmas Special turning 30. And to re-examine this classic, we've got OG Simpsons lovers (and the team behind the series OK K.O.) Ian Jones-Quartey and Toby Jones. We all head back to 1989 to cover how the sketch interstitials became a series, how the 8th episode became the premiered, and the controversies behind the scenes! So grab your favorite pork chop toy and listen now! Support this podcast and get dozens of bonus episodes by visiting Patreon.com/TalkingSimpsons and becoming a patron! And please follow the new official Twitter, @TalkSimpsonsPod!

attention podcast listener we've got an exciting new podcast coming just for patrons of patreon.com slash talking simpsons talking futurama season two part one has begun exclusively for our five dollar and up patrons on the talking simpsons network that's the first 10 episodes of futurama coming to you once a week so just sign up for $5 a month at patreon.com slash TalkingSimpsons and you'll get Talking Futurama Season 2 and all of our limited miniseries, including the entirety of Talking Futurama Season 1. That's 13 episodes.

That is patreon.com slash TalkingSimpsons. Now please enjoy the rest of this podcast. I heartily endorse this event or product ahoy everybody welcome to talking simpsons the podcast that's full of unadulterated pap. I'm your host, scrawny little bag of bones, Bob Mackie. This is our chronological exploration of The Simpsons. Who else is here with me today? Henry Gilberton. No Christmas for anybody. And who else do we have? Pardon my galoshes. It's Toby Jones.

And I'm Ian Jones-Cordy. And how many grades does this school have? Wait, is it the right episode? Yes. Classic line. Today's episode is Simpsons roasting on an open fire. Turn on the jute. What do you think, kids? Nice try, Dad.

Today's episode aired on December 17th, 1989 december 17th 1989 and as always henry will tell us what happened on this mythical day in real world history oh my god oh boy bobby taylor swift is born national lampoon's christmas vacation is uh number one at the box office and it's uh for this holiday season every kid wants themselves a Game Boy. That's the hot toy of 1989. Yeah, Taylor Swift, T. Swift was born on this very day. I'm not a fan of that news item. That's crazy.

And yeah, it's funny to think of even seeing National Lampoon's Christmas Vacation in a theater as a new film. And not on TBS. Yeah, not on TBS with scenes cut out or whatever. It's very much like this. And National Lampoon's Vacation came out in the same month. It's all about getting screwed over on your holiday bonus, which nobody has anymore. Yeah, no.

We were screwed over nationally on our holiday Christmas bonus. It just feels weird watching it because you're like wait that's a thing yeah you expected a pool yeah yeah man the game boy i think i did get it that christmas wow oh that's great i was a christmas of 90 game boy uh boy no i had to i mean i begged for it for christmas but also i think for my parents it was, or for my mom, it was a gift for herself to play Tetris all the time. I think I got Tetris and Mario Land and I think

the baseball game too. The one that's just baseball? Yeah, just baseball. Baseball. No frills. I just told myself, well, on the box it's all Mario playing, so I'm playing a Mario game still. Yeah, I didn't own a Game Boy until the first Pocket. Oh, really? All the way until then?

Yeah, all the way until then. I think I got mine when Kirby's Dream Land came out, so pretty late, actually. 92, I think. And that's like your favorite game is on the Game Boy. What are your favorites? Well, I had played that a lot because a cousin of mine had a Game Boy.

Oh, okay. I had borrowed it, but I didn't own one of my own until much later. But I guess we should tell the listeners, surprise, we went back in time 10 years. Has the world gone topsy-turvy? No, yes. So this is the 30th anniversary of the first aired Simpsons episode. So we thought we'd go back in time 30 years and invite some very special guests to be on the show to talk all about this monumental moment in TV

history. Thank you for coming on the show, guys. Always a pleasure. Listeners, this is recorded on the same day as the What a Cartoon post-mortem for the series finale of Ian and Toby's show OKKO, so you guys should definitely check out that

show, but also check out that podcast to learn tons of secrets that was a lot of fun feels like 30 years since that show ended you know I'm so glad

you guys could come on for this one especially and while we're in Burbank to record in our mobile podcasting studio

especially because like Ian it was you in our uh the first time me and bob interviewed you that must have been like 2017 oh yeah yeah uh ok kill is like new i think our patreon just started as well yeah right yeah and uh you you mentioned how much you love the early simpsons season yeah i have an affinity for the early seasons. Not because I think they're, like, brilliant and far and away better than anything else or anything like that. But it's just really nice to appreciate something getting built sort of from the ground up.

And you sort of see every week the show getting better and better and better. And, like, there's, like, a lot of interesting things and techniques that like you don't really see later like you know simpsons roasting is like it's you know there's no bones about it it's kind of rough to look at but there are things in the episode like you know there's a gorgeous in the greyhound race like incredible like animating backgrounds with like a cool camera rotation there are several parts within this episode that are like there's the um the actual uh layouts are just like very like inventive and cool uh and to know that uh they were doing all this stuff at very early in the show's run it's a real flex from from them to be like oh we can be filmic and like

interesting and like actually do like cool angles and have interesting stuff even though we don't have everything figured out yet uh it's just a delight to watch yeah uh you your mention of like appreciating those in the shorts too made me really reevaluate my my feelings on it and how i i kind of did before felt the general feeling of like and why even watch season one like yeah it's old it's kind of a popular opinion it is yeah it's wrapped into a lot of pooping on claskey chupo as well which i'm sure that we did early on our podcast years yeah yeah which is another reason to revisit this episode also because like in the four years now we're talking talking simpsons but in the four years since we recorded that one

me and you have learned so much more about the production of the show like we were probably saying a lot of like uh very uninformed things in the well conan o'brien didn't write this episode it can't be good i think we did 18 interviews so far with Simpsons folks, often interviewing them twice. So that's all on the Patreon. But we've learned so much since then. Our Simpsons scholarship has risen by a thousand degrees. And if I could make just like a plea for any listener who does kind of tune out season one, I would just say like, if you've watched the entire breadth of what The Simpsons has to offer,

you can understand where the logical end point of no charm and perfect animation goes. And I think it's just nice to look at something that is all charm and completely imperfect. Yeah. And just appreciate that for what it is and we should mention uh disney plus again uh part of our uh you know ongoing ad campaign for them but i feel that a lot of people at least uh since the turn of the century when the dvd started coming out a lot of people skip season one on dvd thinking like well i don't want to see those again when those come up in the rotation on reruns i'd say you know i'll skip that but now they're just there

waiting for you if you have a subscription most people do so i think people will be into us revisiting this one again for sure yeah and uh what you say about the imperfections and charms like that really came through to me too and me and bob did the shorts as a patreon exclusive sign up at patreon.com so let's talk simpsons but when we watch those shorts like i hadn't seen them in 15 years. I had not watched them in a long time. And there's so much charm in there. And all of the weird movements characters do. Bart's head just completely transforms.

It's like a wild Looney Tunes take. They transform from their Lester and Eliza selves to almost fully form Simpsons by the end of those shorts. So really fun to watch. It's great. Yeah, with season one, there's also another element to it, which is just that the storytelling in general, it's already at times fairly sophisticated and emotionally quite rich as well. There's a directness to how emotional these episodes get

that goes away relatively quickly in the show, even in some of my favorite season two episodes. And, I mean, where was everybody in 1989, late 1989, when this aired? Like, are you... Me and, I believe, me and Bob were both watching it when it premiered.

I have 30-year-old memories now of this episode watching it. I remember... We might be slightly older than you guys. I was a baby. I was two old i was i was in first grade when this aired so i do remember it a little bit yeah i remember just seeing um so you get this insert in your newspaper saying here are the tv shows on this week and that was on the cover and i said oh a cartoon on at night i have to see this and i remember watching it with my family and then just rolling into season one from there being very excited about the simpsons so i I was not a Tracy Allman Simpsons viewer, but I just remember having memories of watching this and then hearing the adults talk about it during that Christmas.

So I thought, oh, adults like this. I have to get in on this. Like, this is what adults watch. So, yeah, that's how I got into the show from this episode. I have a rare visual aid. Oh. I'll give people time to Google this. But I was most familiar.

I had that. You had this? Yes. I was most familiar with this episode from the Simpsons Xmas book, which came out the year after. Google this if you can and look at the insides. They're amazing. Wow.

Yeah. So Bart of Darkness just tweeted about this on his Instagram or posted about it on Instagram. I didn't know this existed until now. So it's sort of like an animanga or whatever. Yes. Screenshots of the TV show. Yeah, so it's screenshots of the TV show.

Really interesting layouts. I had seen this. I think someone left it in a lost and found at my school the year after because this came out the year after. And I remember grabbing it out of there and just being like, this is mine now. This isn't the same. This isn't the same version.

I had to re get this, but it's an amazing artifact because it's a piece of Simpsons merch from like early 1990. And there are barely any characters to put in the front. So like we see like lewis yeah lewis is there oh they santa teacher dr zitzofsky the doctor that burns his tattoo off has a name yes also a ticket seller yes that's amazing uh yeah these are like character profiles that are in the front of the book i I haven't seen that in a million years.

Wow. I don't think I've ever seen it. But I'd read this over and over. Oh, I have to see this now. Yeah, I'd read that over and over like in school. And then I just like stole it eventually. And I was most, I most knew this special from this book more than actually seeing it on TV. And then it was, when I saw it later, I was like, oh yeah, I know this like line by line. Because it was in this book more than actually seeing it on TV. And then it was when I saw it later, I was like, oh, yeah, I know this like line by line

because it was in this book. Wow. That's yeah. I I remember getting that. It's like a gift. I would guess the holidays of 1990. And yeah, yeah. I just flipping through it.

I just being able to re return to that simpsons episode oh yeah unless you have that book you won't know the doctor's name you won't know the pun zitz off ski yes i think you i think you actually might see it in a background like super tiny on a diploma oh it's better that we don't see it yeah it's best left for the book honestly oh that is so cool thank you for bringing that in. Of course. Yeah, I just only found out about it today. So what an artifact.

Yeah, everyone Google that and see if you can see some of the interiors. They're really fun. Well, and also just getting that good of screenshots for a book in 1990. How did they do that? Yeah, I don't know. It's Nintendo Power Map technology. It looks like it's a photo or a scan of the actual print. Yeah, it really does look like that.

It could be, yeah. Yeah, and when I was growing up, this was one of the only episodes that you could get on VHS. Yeah, yeah. And so I would go to the video store and just rent it all the time and watch it. And by that point, the first couple seasons were already out, so it was already like,

oh, this is an interesting, weird artifact of an earlier version of this show. My parents didn't know about the simpsons like i i've recounted the story about how yeah i think church told them not to watch a show much later though my mom did watch tracy ullman and she knew about the simpsons but she was just like oh is that still a thing she was always just confused that it still existed. But I do remember it like really, you know, I was in first grade. I remember it really hit our school like a ton of bricks. Everyone was like crazy about The Simpsons. Yeah.

Well, I so I did in 89. I now know the dates because we watched the shorts. And the short where the only two-parter short they did where Maggie is lost and it's just it's Maggie like goes through like a sweepy adventure in an old pop-up cartoon. I never I don't think I'd ever seen a two-parter thing as a kid when I saw that. And then I was just so glued to it. I didn't care a single thing. I was like six. I didn't care about Tracy Ullman. But I was watching every Simpsons I could see. so glued to i didn't care a single thing i was like six i didn't care about tracy ullman but

i was watching every simpsons i could see and then that christmas when i saw that was on tv i was like i have to watch this like and i loved every second of it there's like moments that were just relevatory for me of like a cartoon can say that a cartoon can sing this song like yeah and then when you find out uh when i found out like there's going to be episodes in january i don't think i truly understood time when that would be but i was like uh it was going to be appointment viewing and it also was like uh for for me i was lucky like my family all did love it too. Like we all watched it together and me and my little brother who was like four. So I was seven, he was four and mom and dad, we all watched it together and we're laughing at different things. Like I was just entertained by like a car,

like funny cartoons on TV and a, and a bad boy, but yeah, man, it was, it was a magical time. Yeah. Let's talk about a magical time. Yeah. Let's talk about the history of The Simpsons in full right now. Okay. We've got time. But no. But how did we get to The Simpsons premiering in 1989? It is an 80s show, technically.

Right. It barely made it into the 80s. It had like 14 days of the 80s to experience. The Baskin. into the 80s but uh they had like 14 days of the 80s to experience the baskin uh but why don't we start in early 1987 where james l brooks accomplished television producer he's making the tv show the tracy ullman show he's looking for animated bumpers to take place between sketches on the show he wants uh he goes with one that's a uh psychiatrist uh short i forget the name of the tracy allman show yeah and uh but he also wants one based on life in hell which is a you know moderately popular indie comic uh but he then sets up a meeting with mac reigning and uh as the

story goes mac reigning was like i don't want to give up my publishing rights to Life in Hell to put it on a TV show. So instead, he makes up a group of a family of characters who are named after his entire family, except for Bart, who is, as he would reveal many years later, based on Mark, his often unmentioned older brother. And yeah, he pitches that to James L. Brooks. He's like, yeah, let's do it. And so Graining then gets set up with one of the few animation studios that can really handle this, who are mainly doing commercial work in Hollywood in the 80s. Klaski chupo run

on animation side by gabor chupo and so they set up in the klaski chupo studio they're going to start animating on pretty tight deadlines uh a bunch of shorts to uh like basically like 30 15 to 30 second segments of one overall story that'll amount to 90 seconds. And the first three animators that worked on it, we've got Bill Kopp, who would go on to be the creator of Eek the Cats. Oh, yeah. And he'd also work on, he'd head up at least a few of the Roger Rabbit shorts

that Disney made after Roger Rabbit. Oh, yeah, that's true, yeah. Then they got wesley archer and wesley archer had worked with david silverman on uh one crazy summer yeah and so they they hooked up together like all right let's let's animate this and it the original shorts like you know they make fun of them on later Simpsons seasons for being so rough. But it really was like Matt Groening had not storyboarded anything before. And he he sounded like he just drew like a comic strip and then they adapted it. Yeah, kind of. It was just a lot of learning as they went on in the early shorts.

Yeah, they're kind of remarkable. Just knowing how fly by night the whole enterprise was uh watching them and you know i don't know making stuff honestly just gives me appreciation for anything that's done my bar my bar for success is like way lower when i see something that's finished and like all the parts are there. I'm just like, damn, you did it. That puts you ahead of a lot of people. So yeah, just knowing, uh,

how much they put together with like barely any experience. I think it's really impressive. And it wasn't like, uh, it wasn't Mac or any or any of the original three animators that decided to make them yellow, which is something we take for granted now, but it's still very bizarre if you think hard enough about it.

But I believe it was a color stylist from class, a woman, I forget her name, but her decision was like here's a color you don't see on tv this will stop people from turning the channel and that's true i think that's one of the most eye-catching things about the show in the early years like what are these colors i'm looking at i didn't see these i think she did the color styling in this episode okay yeah yeah i think the story of simpsons is like uh dozens of good just like off-kilter ideas that were great that all just worked out in a row like that that all just paid off i think the uh i think again another one that like just sounded like it was done out of function was since they

aired on tracy ullman they were like can the some of the cast do it so they just get dan castellaneta and julie kavner to do the voices of homer and marge the parents on it and it's just such a like just out of convenience and also to keep to connect it more to the tracy ullman show and especially like i mean julie is a very accomplished actress like she was she was famous for rhoda at that time. And, and Dan Castellaneta, like what a, like he,

it's shocking. He hadn't done a bunch of voices prior to Simpsons. He's just so good at it. I think, you know, maybe he was like, God, no,

I'm, I'm going to be in Saturday Night Live. Like that's my path. I'm, I'm, I'm a live action comedy actor. Uh, and,

but they did hire two other voices to fill it out They had a relatively young, accomplished actress Yardley Smith, who had been in Maximum Overdrive But also major plays on Broadway, too And then the only person from cartoon acting Was Nancy Cartwright Who we knew from Snorks Yeah, she was like a

student of dawes butler yeah yeah she uh it's an interesting story how she she got into that world yeah it's also in the chipmunk adventure yeah that's true yeah the sultan and there's a very bart sounding character in that movie and uh yeah the shorts were like an immediate hit they the simpsons do so well tracy almost like we don't need this other psychiatrist one we're just we're just going with simpsons in season two and in fact we're simpsons then instead of being interstitials the next season it's like no it's just one simpsons short every week and it'll be shown from beginning to end and that's that's when they could build up a lot more of the universe and

like just have more things than instead of just like a series of the the first season of it feels like a week of a comic strip like where it's like oh this week garfield is doing this one type of joke kind of like blackout gag almost like yeah like you're watching uh like a roadrunner coyote sort of situation yeah Yeah, yeah. Homer over and over again telling Bart, jump into my arms. You can trust me. Right. But then meanwhile in the second season

that's when you meet Krusty for the first time. That's when they go to the zoo. There's a lot more of the rules are being set up for the characters there. Yeah. And then it's doing so well that by 89, Fox, which is growing and looking to have more than two hours of programming a week, they're looking for new stuff. And they especially would want to work with another show from James L. Brooks. He's such an accomplished writer.

So the feeling is, I think David Silverman is one of the people who said, oh, push for it. You could do this series. Isn't there a story about David Silverman getting drunk at a party? Yes, yeah. Like a Christmas party or something. He got drunk and was telling everybody about it. Yeah, that's a fun story, just to imagine. Seems very real yeah yeah well i mean david silverman is like a known

like um a long time traveler of uh thing burning man yeah big time burning man guy yeah and i think fox was resistant they kind of wanted just a uh short show like a package of shorts right not a full sitcom it was gonna be like three seven minute shorts which sounds crazy yeah i don't know i think they were like let's do specials first or let's do shorts but they're like no needs to be a full series like the flint like the flintstones was a thing that they pointed to all the time like that's why it would work because this worked before yeah they they pushed hard for it and it's amazing to think of like how small of a company fox was that they then were still like, okay, 13 episodes of animation will pay for it.

We'll do it for the first primetime animated show. Not only that, but Brooks was able to get the thing that you never hear about of no executive notes. They are not allowed to give executive notes on the show, which is still, I think,

true to this day, I think. I think they always talk about how they get the notes, but they're under no responsibility or obligation to do anything. Right. Yeah, I guess you can't stop, you can't make an executive not give notes. Right, and then of course that leads to the stories

about other shows like Futurama and stuff where it's like they didn't quite have that same situation. It gets a little bit more hostile. Yeah, I think I heard on another podcast bill oakley saying like uh that causes that he thought that caused some tension of like they didn't get as many perks from fox because they were mad they couldn't give notes for things uh but yes so the first season staff starts getting together under Sam Simon. He's hired to help co-develop it. That he was like a wunderkeen of writing.

Like he was the showrunner of Taxi, the youngest showrunner of all time. In his early 20s, yeah. And James Earl Brooks had a lot of faith in him. He's now passed away. The stories about him from folks who worked with them were either like they all love him and like he's like this great guy to work with and other people were like he was a beast to work with and i hated working with him like he sounds it sounds like you got one of two flavors of sam simon if you worked with him right but i mean the

the guys like the guys we've talked to who worked on it, like Mike Reese, he's very complimentary of Sam Simon of like he he built the writers room. He hired the original group of writers and taught them how to run a show and really set the tone for what sitcom Simpsons would be compared to short Simpsons. The Simpsons will be right back. The critics are hailing the arrival of the Simpsons will be right back. The critics are hailing the arrival of The Simpsons. They're pretty selective. It's hilarious. Jingle bells, batman's house. Don't kill me, Dad. Witty.

Ow, critics. Irreverent. Ow, critics. A funny, funny show. When do we get paid? The Simpsons Christmas Special, next. Whether you're a fan of Donner or Nixon, I hope you enjoy this week's podcast.

And big thanks to our guests, Toby Jones and Ian Jones-Courtey. Those guys are great. If you love hearing their thoughts on this original season of The Simpsons, you should definitely check out our What a Cartoon podcasts, where we talk to them about their series ok ko let's be heroes as well as evangelion please check that out and if you're feeling giving at this holiday time and you're still not a subscriber

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Akira, and Kiki's Delivery Service. So many to choose from. You should definitely give them all a listen. So please, sign up at the $10 a month level you won't regret it at patreon.com slash talking simpson yeah so simon and grating up like famously they didn't get along working on it included like they and all those stories came out after he passed away so he passed away in march of 2015 and uh so it hasn't been that long actually yeah yeah it feels you know it feels like longer to me that he's been gone right before we started our podcast. Isn't that strange? But yeah, you're right.

And yes, Simon, he staffed up the writers with folks who would be involved in the show for a very long time in most cases, like including Al Jean and Mike Reese, who were just taught, I think, just right off of ALF. Yeah, yeah. Previously, Carson, they started with Airplane 2 doing rewrites, the movie. And also, It's the Gary Shand ALF. Yeah, yeah. Previously, Carson, they started with Airplane 2, doing rewrites, the movie. And also, It's the Gary Shandling Show. Yeah, yeah. And he hired a trio of guys who were formerly of SNL, but were doing their own humor magazine that they were sending out called Army Man.

That's George Meyer, John Vitti, and John Schwarzwelder. And then they hired the writing team. That means in the writer's room world that means two for the price of one uh with jay cogan and wally walidarski yeah jay cogan's dad is like a famous comedy hollywood writer for tv i and i think they had uh they were just like moved from allman to simpsons yeah they were on allman at the time yeah and uh and then to beef up the actors, they hired Harry Shearer, Joanne Harris, Pamela Hayden, Lucy Taylor more in a guest capacity, and Chris, well, I call him Chris Lotta. That's his like-

Christopher Collins. Yes, that's right. Christopher Collins, yeah. That's his, I guess, union name? Yeah, yeah. His real name, in other words. But if you read the G.I. Joe or Transformers credits, you know him as Chris Lotta, the voice of Starscream in Cobra Commando, which I was shocked to find out he had voices that weren't that voice. Yeah, that is funny.

But what an iconic voice actor Chris Lotta is, though. But he was not a good fit for working on Simpsons, apparently. I think Original Burns. Yeah, he was the Original Burns. Yeah, and Moe. None of that stayed in the show in any cut of it. Yeah, I think... Interesting.

I've heard some people say that the Burns you hear in Homer's Odyssey that aired was him, but I can't... I think that might have been me, but I know I was wrong afterwards. I was like, no, that's not him. It's definitely Harry Shearer uh and late in season one they hire hank azaria to fill it out like to pretty much i think replace chris lotta and he re-records lines like over mo as well and like i i know on one

commentary like graining still joke like i consider him the new guy like he's a young man of 55 this year and the animation would still be handled by klaski chupo they'd continue on uh though the overseas animation was handled by the korean company a com a com yeah yeah what's uh i they to me i'm like do the tiny tunes or the other uh on saturday morning stuff i saw them as a b team yeah i really only know them from tiny tunes other than this yeah that and like animaniacs and uh they weren't like tms so they'll always be b team in my heart i guess uh to talk more about klaski chupo uh we probably talked trash about them with our earlier episodes but um they did a very good job again they had to like build this and figure out how to make a show like this work and they were on the show until

season three and i think season three is one of the best looking up uh season of the simpsons just like yeah it's so lush i think they lost a little bit of that when phil merman took over but um if you go back and you read the not so great 2009 oral history unofficial oral history of the simpsons you can read like the real non-writer perspective story of how things went wrong and why klaski chupo had to put up a lot of their own money to fix things that were the writer's fault. Yeah, I think they it was a situation built to cause friction because you had, you know, a relatively new animation studio, especially for 30 minute production. And then you had a bunch of very experienced sitcom writers who Sam Simon did

actually have a little saturday morning experience but for the most part they'd never worked in animation before and so especially like at the top yeah james l brooks like i don't believe he'd ever worked in animation before and so i think there that just leads to like miscommunications and frictions and yeah both sides kind of blaming the other of like you screwed screwed this up. No, you screwed this up. And this was a dark time for animation. No one respected it. They had no reason to respect animation or animators.

And a big story in that book was, from Klasky Chupo's perspective, if there was a retake, Klasky Chupo had to pay for it. If there was a new scene that they wanted to add, Klasky Chupo had to pay for it. And essentially, they had to add new rules as they worked on the show. Like, nothing can be added after the animatic right and i think even film roman had to push back

when they switched over to film roman like no you can't do changes this late anymore yeah it does seem like you know every production is kind of like reinventing the wheel uh but they did get away with like a lot of things and i think it was because everybody was uh maybe didn't have the most experience doing it now i mean for for you guys in the animation world like some of those rules must sound pretty pretty wild i mean i i mean i can't imagine what would happen if anything we wanted to change in an episode would not be partly our responsibility yeah it's nuts you know it's like when we do when we do retakes you know it's like an accountability thing where it's like you if you see something that that is that is you need to fix it's like if there is some reason to believe that it's the animation studios uh mistake that they made then

there's an amount that you can that you can do of that but then if it's something that you if it's our whim if it's something we want just because we want it or if it's an issue that's sourced from something that we did then we have to pay for it we gotta find the money for that got to find the money for that. And that system makes a lot of sense to me. And they went into this not really knowing about how animation was made. They thought they'd be able to shoot coverage for scenes. Hearing about that, it's just like, yeah, you can zoom in and you'll have some coverage. Yeah, it's pretty crazy to think about how non-animation literate people were when they were making this stuff. In our David Silverman interview, he did mention that he felt like he could see the wave coming of respect for animation more or at least a new boom of animation in 1990.

Because it was like this was right after Little Mermaid and Roger Rabbit. It was getting people talking about animation again and like ren and stimpy's right around the corner dog was on all of our lists this was the season of little mermaid it just came out the previous month yeah wow just one month before this man yeah like so you got roger rabbit lead right into little mermaid and then you've got simpsons coming on and then yeah Ren and Snippy with the other Nicktoons right behind it the next year. Like, you can see the hipness of animation, at least in the United States, like really growing again after, you know, at least from a popularity or a mainstream acceptance standpoint. The 80s were a very dark time for animation.

Yeah. Though, I mean, there's still lots of things to love about 80s american cartoons for sure yeah yeah the directors on it uh top level david silverman and wes archer moved up to it and silverman in our interview admitted like he's like i'd never directed a half hour of tv before like it was a lot of learning for him and this is after season one but we talked to mark kirkland and he talked about like what a what a wild kind of collective of artists that were working out of klaski chupo's offices then like it sounds like a really crazy place to to work at them but there there were some hiccups in the animation uh starting with like they there were two directors milton gray

and kent butterworth they came from a Saturday morning background. And for whatever reason, they didn't gel with The Simpsons. And they both like Butterworth and Milton Gray. They got co-directing credits on their episodes. But extensive retakes were done, especially on Some Enchanted Evening. Yeah, yeah. Which is. The first production episode, which is, of course, the reason why this is now the pilot episode.

This is now the first one, yeah. They call it the pilot episode, the first episode that was released. Yeah, it's a shame, too, because it's so funny how when you go look at that Some Enchanted Evening footage on, like, that first DVD and how crazy it looks. Some of it is crazy. Some of it is crazy. Some of it is beautiful. Unusually just amazing, great animation and posing.

It doesn't all work, and I get that, but some of it is just so well done. Yeah, some of it's too animated almost for The Simpsons. That scene with bots in the VHS tape telling them kids have always done what I say, hitting on their faces. It's so well done. And scene of of Marge and Homer dancing uh is just like so lavishly animated but to me I look at that just as a person who's worked in animation and I see definitely the

direction that went to whoever was handling the animation was lacking so i see i see the work of people who were filling in ambiguous holes that were given to them by a production uh and sort of just giving a guess to what this animation should be like yeah and that i mean that happened a ton in 80s cartoons yeah absolutely like they'd you might not even get layout from uh stuff sent overseas like they'd have to they just have to fill in the if yogi bear wasn't in the right place they'd figure out how he'd get over there i mean just even in the layout stage it seems like a lot of care was taken to fill in gaps they maybe just got a script and maybe like just some rough reads and we're like how is this going to be a cartoon because it's just people like standing around so we just have to add like stuff to this yeah it was

it was planned for a september 89 premiere but because of the uh first animation they got back on some enchanted evening they were on the writer production side at gracms, they were aghast at it. They found it, I mean, that's one of the best uncomfortable extras on season one. Listening to James L. Brooks watch it again in 2000. And then leave the room. Yeah, he just slams the door and gets out of there.

Yeah. But it's so weird thinking that this is the eighth episode because it serves such a good introduction to all the characters. Where the first episode, now the 13th of the season doesn't sorry toby oh well yeah going going to your point i mean that's why it works so well as a as a pilot because it hits the ground running you know it doesn't waste any time like introducing you to stuff it just enters you into a world that's somewhat fully formed uh even at this stage and uh it just feels really good as a pilot yeah the uh i mean this also they

had a lot of great animators like uh folks who would go on to move up in the simpsons ranks over the years like bob had mentioned i didn't know that rich moore storyboarded the whole thing the only credit for storyboards yeah we were just like how is that possible we're trying to figure that out last night we were like what yeah we were reading through the credits and just like trying... I think the only thing we could figure is that maybe he had done the board and then it was just lots and lots and lots of layouts. Lots of layouts. Also, we saw that Nikki Vanzo

was the checker on this. She was also a checker on like Ren and Stimpy, and she and husband Greg Vanzo would go on to create Rough Draft. Yeah, yeah. Greg's a director on this yeah season two yeah greg's uh brother scott i think was uh he did layout on this as well so so this must be like right before they moved to korea to open up rough draft i think rough

draft might have started in like 92 i think it was like i think it was like part way through ren and stimpy that she was like yeah we can do this in korea yeah and like greg vanso it's it's funny that he only has one i think only one episode directing credit for simpsons but like right he has a lot more impact on simpsons than people realize yeah yeah yeah which episode it's one in season one. Is it No Disgrace Like Home? Okay, yes. Yes, Ian, you're right. It's No Disgrace Like Home.

Yes, as co-director. I think that's another one he took over from another. But it's just two. Kent Butterworth, I don't know too well his background. Kent Butterworth, I mostly know. Well, he worked on a lot of Deke shows. He worked on Adventures of sonic the hedgehog yep uh that's one of the things and you can you can see the connection there yep you can see the

connection yeah kent butterworth famously said uh the quote if you can recognize the character it's on model really i thought you said that no kent butterworth said that uh which is just like a really hilarious quote that I find really funny. A bunch of our bosses who like used to work at Deke, you know, know and remember him. And he's still working in the industry today. That's great. Well, Milton Gray, like he's he animated on a ton of stuff. He worked a lot with Ralph Bakshi.

And I think he's he was the animatorator on the final the top tamra segment of heavy metal the okay the the girl fly the bikini girl on the dragon right that's uh uh yeah but the uh also like on this episode too is nancy cruz who'd go on to be a director swint no scott uh phil ortiz who did a lot of the Bongo comics and a ton of other great work. And also Eric Stefani. He's a layout guy. Yeah, we saw him in the credits. Yeah. And of course, there's also Brad Bird. Like, right. Yeah, he was hired on. He's creative consultant, I think, from the beginning. But also, I think because they needed another director just like i like david silverman has five episode directing credits on this like i think just to not kill him they were

like brad we'll get brad to direct this i think brad stayed on until bill and josh's years that's when he left during that time period yeah and that's i mean i think that lines up with when he would have left for iron giant and And it's like, I understand. Late 90s. And I probably mentioned this on this podcast before, but if you're interested at all in animation, you owe it to yourself to Google Storyboarding the Simpsons Way by Brad Bird,

which is like an incredible packet of just animation tricks and stuff about how to frame a shot, how to make it look good how to make the simpsons look good in one shot he also did notes for king of the hill that are also very similar these have been making the rounds in the industry for like new workers yeah for decades now yeah i still i still tell people like hey if you want to know how to storyboard that's uh that's a really good document to have another kind of lost man in the simpsons history is richard gibbs the uh original composer for the simpsons he he's composer on all season one he had been composer on tracy ullman and uh there are some like sound cues in here that

just don't feel right to me just because i don't have that alf clausen yeah they don't feel right to me just because I'm used to Alf Clausen. Yeah, they don't have that lush Alf Clausen sound we're used to. He always will have been the man to write the classic song, That was him. I mean, it might have been Dan Castellaneta, but did the original composition on that. But of course, the original

theme of The Simpsons, still to this day, the danny elfman song yes uh we will never i mean another amazing get for the show to get that like to get danny elfman in general who already was a very accomplished film composer to then write such a great intro song it was fun to think upon watching this the people watching this in december 17 1989 didn't realize they were hearing a part of the simpsons theme yeah for the intro where it's just like bum bum bum bum bum and then you go into the living room like they had no idea that was the theme song for the show yeah and uh the elephant in the room on this episode is mimi pond too that's uh the creditor writer on the christmas

special we should have really re-released it on the free feed so you guys can listen to it. But we got an interview with Mimi Pond where she talked about her experience on this. You guys should really listen. And also just hear about her career. Like it's such an interesting career. But Mimi Pond is an accomplished comic artist and cartoonist.

And in the 80s, you know, she knew some friends who were working on Pee-Wee's Playhouse and got into Hollywood that way and wrote her first script for Pee-wee's Playhouse with the actress who played Miss Yvonne. They co-wrote a script together for that. And she also was friends with Matt Groening. And that got, he's like, oh, if you're writing scripts now, you know, we need a Christmas special script. Come on board and yeah she tells it uh she didn't feel it was the most welcoming atmosphere but she in a freelance capacity took took on the script and they had an outline for it and everything she she added the uh the santa's

as many lands like she tells a story on the podcast of doing pre-internet research on all of the santa's that's funny yeah i don't know if there was a formal writer's room in season one. It seemed like there were just people working remotely and sending in scripts to the executive producers because I remember in the old commentaries from like 20 years ago, they were saying like certain characters didn't have names.

Like the boss was called Mr. Meanie. I know some of them were like in a trailer in 80s. It's like they tell a story on one commentary of like when Batman came out in summer of 89, a bunch of the writers all went to see it together. Yeah, right. But yeah, I think they were, I mean, it was by Simpsons staff standards, it is a bare bones staff. Let's see, Mimi Pond, you know, she worked hard on the script. She, you know, pretty much hard on the script she you know pretty

much everybody who wrote a script in season one many of the people credited as a script on season one did become staff members she did not and as she told us in the interview she had heard through the grapevine later that sam simon had said he didn't want any women on the writing staff because he had just gone through a divorce and he didn't want to be around any women. That was the story as she had heard it. I mean, that is like the dictionary definition of sexism. The show would not have a female staff writer until season six. A non-freelance on the writing staff writer yes in season two nel scoville would write uh these fugu episode

but that was still freelance capacity like which means you know you write the script and she worked on it for a few weeks but then gone and like uh mimi pom would say that it did you know having the first episode of simpsons as your credit like did open doors for her but she said they also slammed as fast shut as they did right after and so a few years after the show she she just uh moved back to new york and i uh got back into just the comic scene and also her her husband at the time was becoming more successful as a uh as an artist in the art world so i think they decided to just like to move the family back east and get out of the hollywood world yeah she as she describes herself she's the turd in the punch bowl of simpsons history because it's just like not not a happy story unfortunately this story

came out since our first uh time we did this yeah maybe pond i think gave an interview like right before we interviewed her right yeah yeah Yeah, yeah. In 2017. That year, yeah. She did it and finally really spilled the beans. It was like an open secret. People knew about it. And they barely mentioned her, I think, on the commentary for this episode. They're like, it was written by Mimi Pond, a good writer.

Yeah, I don't really think they mentioned her at all. Yeah, until we heard that interview or read that interview, I'm like, who is is this person and why did she write one of the most important episodes of television yeah i mean it was it was something i kind of i kind of would notice even as a young viewer of the show who was like reading the credits how a female name would pop up as a writer so rarely and you'd be like wonder it's like well this is a great episode so what happened yeah that's that's an ellipsis on that yeah i mean you know in in general most sitcoms at the time and to this day are not known for employing a lot of female writers unfortunately like i think i think that's improved a bit over the years unless you had the wit and sparkle of murphy brown yes yeah no i mean there are definitely standouts from it. And it's unfortunate Simpsons wasn't that. I mean, just recently on Twitter, Jake Hogan won the season one writers. He did an

ad like he's like, ask me a question about Simpsons. I and somebody I saw asked him, you know, about this story of Sam Simon. He's like, this is paraphrasing was like, I didn't know that was his intention at the time that's unfortunate i really liked working with sam we definitely could have had a more diverse staff i wish we had done that now looking back on it like and that's yeah i mean mo just about all the staff was like harvard graduates too like right now that's uh it seems like you you had to be a white man who graduated from harvard and you might get on the staff of the simpsons then but they still i mean it's a really great writing staff too so yeah but that's uh that's the that's the skeletons in the closet of this but uh but yeah so simpsons roasting on an open fire it premiered i when it premiered i

thought it was just a christmas special just a one-off christmas special that uh we you know you never see it it'd just be a thing you'd rerun every Christmas like Charlie Brown. You weren't reading the trades? I mean, and also that's how the episode opens, because it says the Simpsons Christmas special right up front. And so it kind of gives that impression. And honestly, it is like an incredible Christmas special. It's like the story is really simple, easy to follow.

The characters are like rich and layered. They don't seem as like boring and say like i don't know those kids in the frosty special just like you're just like who are you what is your personality this has like it gets it all across in like record time and it all feels like really good to watch yeah it's funny to think of it as uh as a what it was should have what it was intended to be a first of the eighth episode in a season of television that is the christmas episode yeah yeah like up front in that first school scene we'll talk about it just like a perfect intro to the four main characters

of the family like homer marge bard and lisa just like all summed up in one scene perfectly yeah and uh well i guess let's get into it right up i mean the it begins with saying just the simpsons christmas special and we don't realize it but they're playing like a chain an altered version of the opening theme right there of the the danny elfman theme over the the snow and uh we see the simpsons pull in and i've seen jeans al gene say this. He's like, what would be my last episode of The Simpsons? It would end with them going to the Christmas pageant. And that would be the last scene of them driving up. I have one brief bit of very scary math to do before we start in full.

So this special is 30 years old. And we just did the What a Cartoon episode about Charlie Brown Christmas. When this episode first aired, Charlie Brown Christmas was 24 years old. Whoa. Whoa. Yes. Do you know what is 24? I'm sorry.

Everyone in this room is visibly dying in front of me. But 24 years ago from this month was Marge Be Not Proud. Wow. We're as far away from that as this episode was for Charlie Brown Christmas. Wow. Yeah. By the way, that's the bone storm episode In case you're wondering I consider Marge may not

Probably be like the other Christmas episode I'm just a skeleton right now All of your skin was just Blown off Oh wow We just did that podcast But I couldn't do that math. It's just it's always so far away, that thing.

But yeah, wow. Time keeps moving. I can't stand it. It's wrong. It's wrong. Now I'm thinking back to what cartoon we just did. Can we actually continue with this podcast now? No, I think we're done.

We're just in a deep depression. Yeah. We'll just become dust by the end uh no i yeah when you say this being like just a perfect christmas special like they could just replay this every year absolutely just i think then people wouldn't might not even be as negative on the first season animation because it would just be this quaint thing we've all gotten used to like yeah nobody would if you saw the mr magoo christmas special now i feel like people wouldn't like ravage it for bad animation they'd just be like oh how sweet it's like one

that last bit of math is that originally this was intended to air between uh the telltale head and call of the simpsons so that was the original place for this which is why in this episode we see that homer is the safety inspector at the plant but he actually won't become the safety inspector until the third episode Homer's Odyssey. So yes, that's my last bit of continuity. Yeah.

And that's, well, that's why Santa's little helper also doesn't appear at all in pretty much any other episode in season one. Okay. So yes, the episode opens with them arriving at the, the elementary school for the Christmas pageant,

which I think being in at least one of those, I had to be a shepherd or something for that. There were never any plays for me. It was all songs for us. I don't think they trusted us with remembering lines. Yeah, I don't know if I was in any school productions. I think I was in one in preschool, but nothing when I was Bart and Lisa's ages. But this is the first sign gag. Oh, yeah.

That is rated three and a half stars and a very confusingly written star readout. Oh, yeah. It's like three and a half and then there's a star after the half, which is weird. It's just kind of hard to parse. Yeah, yeah. But that is the first sign gag you see on The Simpsons is that the

Springfield Shopper rated this play. That's the joke. Is the misspelling of the word pageant intended to be a gag? Maybe I'm just bad at spelling the word pageant. Pageant's a bad, it's spelled badly to begin with. I don't even know how you misspell it. It's a dumb word, I think.

It's a dumb word and it makes me very upset. It has some extra vowels in there. I be, according to the Google Docs, which corrected me, it's P-a-g-e-e-a-n-t and then in the episode it's p-a-g-e-n-t which is very embarrassing or intentionally funny i think uh they should just roll with it and pretend like totally intentional yeah i mean also too when you're starting up a production then they would talk a lot about like well you know it's it's done overseas sometimes letters get get mixed up for uh english letters in in stuff too

i think it's a brilliant commentary on literacy rates in america another one another area where the simpsons was predicted the future you know i mean it's why don't we hear the first audio ever on The Simpsons? Oh, careful, huh? There's no point in being careful. We're late. Sorry, excuse me. Pardon me. Galoshes. Wasn't that wonderful? So part in Homer's galoshes, that's some very loud shoe foley,

which is something this season is famous for. I don't think any cartoon was going to the lengths of doing walking foley for people just walking around, but it's so loud on these episodes. And the show definitely had a learning curve with that because there are a lot of early episodes where Bart in particular has that cartoony thud, thud, thud whenever he walks that they revised later. But I do like walking fully in cartoons. It's like, especially if the characters

are supposed to be inhabiting a real space, it does add something. It's, I mean, in anime it's some my favorite thing of hearing like the clacking of shoes in like some some business setting or some emergency setting i always like hearing that but yeah that uh homer another thing to feel like it says the eighth episode he's getting a little uh closer to homer uh that we know and farther away like in barth the genius he's a lot closer to the uh walter mathau for sure yes but we never ever meet norman or fred homer's best friend norman you all know norman uh yeah having the eighth episode show up first is is just very fortunate because uh

it sucks having your first thing air first um you know on okay ko we we like just we specifically had our first episode be the fifth one we made uh just because we knew like oh those first four are gonna be kind of clunkers you know or you're just kind of figuring it out as you're doing it you know because we knew airing schedule, we were like, we're going to give ourselves some early hindsight. So I feel like it was actually a blessing in disguise that things worked out the way they did. The show is a little more figured out by this point. Yeah, I mean, Springfield, like you said, Telltale Head was right before this. They're really getting more of a feel of what Springfield the city and the populace is that's a lot of uh quote-unquote first appearances for characters even if they

don't talk because i think they just figured out a lot of uh secondary characters they just put them in the background instead of these nondescript weirdos you see in this episode yeah or i mean also all the like in homer's odyssey the other guys who work at the power plant you're like who are these yeah it's like uh no i mean that's part of the charm though, you're like, who are these? It was like, uh, no, I mean, that's part of the charm though. When you see the weirdos. Oh yeah,

for sure. That's why, uh, like even when we did the Helen Hunt episode, there's like some really claskey chupo looking kids in one scene. And I just love when, uh, you can't use claskey chupo as a pejorative,

Henry, we're trying to heal the wound. Sorry. I just mean of their era. It feels like a season two child character design pulled out for, for, uh, was a pejorative henry we're trying to heal the wound i'm sorry i just mean of their era it feels like a season two child character design pulled out for for uh their needs yeah lots of like seed filler uh weird background characters and like things that you know they pulled back on later like background characters getting to have muzzle lines and uh yellow hair yeah Dots for eyes. I do miss some of those things.

I really feel like there should be some other characters that get yellow hair or Simpson-esque hairlines or muzzles. It does feel really weird that they are the only ones to me. A few characters get grandfathered in, like Lenny.

Yeah, Lenny gets yeah lenny gets a beard muzzle yeah that's true and crusty allowed to yeah but that's pretty much it and grandpa actually that's that's the funny thing in most of the shorts like i think almost every adult man who appears has the beard muzzle right basically and they're and i believe they're all voiced by dan caslim at it too that's true yeah also yeah the it has to be a record it takes 13 seconds to get to the david silverman directed by credit wow there's only two co-producer credits and that's gene and reese and then it's it's mimi and then it's uh richard sakai and another and i think like two other gracie filmsms people then Mimi Pond and then David Silverman and just boom like they are parked before they get into there

and yeah like again not a first appearance but Skinner's here they I think they've even got Skinner more figured out than in part the genius Skinner's like the tough principal like yeah yeah and they kind of have a shtick for him that they drop It's him mispronouncing things And actually when we did Lisa Sacks Al Jean and Mike Reese brought it back Where he's like I'm your principal Principal sinner It's like oh I've lost them forever

So they were going back to his season one trade Of a very bad bit To him mispronouncing things It's an incredibly soft joke That he accidentally Pronounced something wrong I'm not sure if I did this on the first podcast pronouncing things it's an incredibly soft joke yeah that he accidentally pronounced something wrong i i don't know if i did this on the first podcast but i did hear him say uh flavor it's yeah all day flavor maybe this is a funny joke yeah it's like things like flavor that's pretty

funny it's pretty good yeah they should have stuck with it i think well and also another thing i do like they stick with and they bring back from time to time is Maggie's starfish onesie. That's really great. Like, she's so adorable in that. I mean, it's just a one-off joke you can do, but it's always fun to see her in that. It's a fun sight gag for the character. Yeah. And then we get the Santas of Many Lands, which, like, Mimi Pond looked up.

She did the physical research of going to the reference desk at a library. These are correct. So it's Ruprecht from Germany. That's Santa's evil helper. But actually the Japanese one, his name or its name is Hoteosho not Hoseashi.

So yeah, they got that wrong. I mean, close enough. They gave it a try. But Tawanga, that's not real. she so yeah that they got that wrong and I mean close enough I'm glad they gave it a try but to Wonga that's not real now yeah that's as that's as real as the tiki gods at the Disneyland yeah the the German Santa based on voice in like character outlying she looks like a

miscolored Janie she like yeah yeah I thought it was Janie there's like like store brand ralph is the other one i have a note on that i just wrote the word proto ralph where it's like it's the ralph character design under some santa stuff with a different voice no one no one told him to get off the stage sweetie and that one's joanne harris right yeah yeah she's uh under she's another like lost name of Simpsons history. She's like Rod before, or Todd before Nancy. Right. Yeah. It's also funny to see what is a shock gag in a Simpsons in the first season?

An eye falling off a fake pair of glasses. Yeah, the little springy eyes. The entire audience gasp in horror. But then clap. That's also, man, the animators already in season one are getting all these scripts that are like, and then a giant crowd of people reacts. And then Lisa gets introduced by Mr. Largo. They got Mr. Largo up front there, too.

He's one of the season one guys they seem to think they do a lot more with he at least gets to appear from time to time i mean he's baked into the intro of every episode as like here's lisa's nemesis that's true watch out for him kids we can never forget him no one no one will ever point the way he did no his face his best line is ew a bug and uh yeah and then lisa comes out for a very like crazy intro this is the best dancing she's ever done in the show i think she's it's funny she can't master tap dancing in season 12 but she can do this uh like full act with two spinning fire sticks tap dancing is too square she's also wearing a body stocking yeah it's quite peculiar it's uh yeah that always used to

actually when i was looking at the simpsons x-men's book it always used to confuse me i was like what is going on here yes yeah i think when i was a kid i was like how how rude is this cartoon i'm looking at yeah they're doing this yeah i it's it's i believe it's silverman who says on the commentary like it was just a miscoloring it was supposed to it's not supposed to be body color for lisa it's supposed to be a body stocking of a different color but yes unfortunately it makes it look like lisa's like bottomless with a grass skirt over like it's it's unfortunate it's unfortunate yes yeah but hey yeah we survived as a nation.

Yeah. It's true. I mean, look, the show was popular anyway. And then after the second grade's done, it's time to move on to the fourth grade, which I think this did really get me into it as a kid, too, because they are directly saying the kids are in these grades. And I was probably thinking, oh, I'm in kindergarten. I'll be in second grade someday, or I'll be in fourth grade.

And then later when I would enter second and fourth grade, I knew I was in the Bart and Lisa grades. It felt special. If there was a moment that got me into The Simpsons, It was this song. The fourth group will now favor us with a melody medley of holiday flavors. Dashing through the snow

In a one horse open sleigh O'er the fields we go Laughing all the way Ha ha ha Making sweet homer He sings like an angel. Oh, jingle bells, Batman smells, Robin lays an egg. The Batmobile broke its wheel, the Joker got away.

Hey, jingle bells, jingle bells, jingle all the way. The fifth grade will now favor us with a scene from Charles Dickens' A Christmas Carol. How many grades does this school have? Then a gentle fade to the next scene. That was one of the early standout scenes of the show. So much so that they kind of replicated it with the Do the Bartman video where it's like bart misbehaving at a recital you're right yeah yeah i didn't know you could sing jingle bells that way i'd never heard it before i i've talked to some people just like oh that was we all knew that jingle bells i heard it i don't remember for me if it was a schoolyard thing first or if it was

a simpsons thing i heard it independently of the simpsons but maybe those kids heard it from the simpsons but i do remember like uh maybe a year or two later uh the batman the animated series christmas of the joker yeah they did this bit straight where joker actually sings it to batman it's great yeah he says the joker got away like so menacingly. It's great. I think that, isn't that a Kennedy one? Like that's one of the only Kennedy Batman.

It's a little weird. It's very strange. But yeah, I think I have a distinct memory that this blew my mind because I remember a friend teaching me this the previous summer before this era. And I was like, how did they know? I,

I thought Simpson, obviously as a kid, I thought Simpsons invented this. I didn't know it was. I think it's a schoolyard class. I was Googling it earlier and it goes way back. It's the kids of the 60s talking about a TV bat. Yeah, it was all about Adam West.

Yeah. Well, that's what I love that Groening brought that back, or the show, but it feels like a kind of graining choice to bring back this kind of schoolyard thing it's like i think kids were singing this everywhere and for me it was if if kids knew it beforehand i think this repopularized it for sure a thousand percent yeah for sure and though marge and homer should go back when they see their child yanked off stage they should just get out of their seats and go get him he's so far in the back i'm not sure if they saw him yeah i think too if he's getting grounded for that or if he's getting like detention they don't need to stay for the fifth grade they can just they can get out of

there but this is again the eighth episode and i think this letter scene establishes all the characters once again it does not feel like the eighth episode where it's like well here's all the characters again with a more formal introduction yeah via marge right i think some enchanted evening in that test footage you can see them do more talking about what it's like to be a family and it's it sets things up more who they are so maybe since they knew they were re uh who knows how late in addition this was but maybe they added this later to set things up better that was my note in my own notes that like, we don't know what retakes they did. We don't know what they added before this aired. So who knows,

you know, what was not in the original idea for this episode. It's true. But yes, this, the Simpsons family letter really does set everybody up here. Dear friends of the Simpson family. We had some sadness and some gladness this year.

First, the sadness, our little cat snowball was unexpectedly run over and went to kitty heaven. But we bought a new little cat, Snowball, too. So I guess life goes on. Speaking of life going on, Grandpa is still with us, feisty as ever. Maggie is walking by herself. Lisa got straight A's.

And Bart, well, we love Bart. The magic of the season has touched us all. Bart, haven't you finished that stupid letter yet? Homer sends his love. Happy holidays. Bart! The Simpsons. Bart, where's the extension cord? Oh, for heaven's sakes, Homer, it's in the

utility drawer. Sorry. I'm just a big kid. And I love Christmas so much it's great maggie falling down like truly being a joke yes they she falls down so much it makes so much noise yeah it was once a joke and not an obligation where it's like well what else will she do in this scene uh well and also yeah first talk about jokes that then just became reality they introduced snowball to just for a in the the it's only for the joke construction of of our cat snowball died it's named snowball because it is a white cat yeah and they're saying like but we got snowball too then the lift up and reveal that because it is a white cat and they're saying like but we got Snowball 2 then the lift up and reveal

that Snowball 2 is a black cat only because like clearly Lisa said well this is Snowball 2 and for that point onward Snowball 2 is just a black cat and nobody understands why. Two really awkward pet names come out of this episode they have to stick

with them for the entire run of the show and they're both tied to of this episode. They have to stick with them for the entire run of the show. That's true. Yeah. And they're both tied to this Christmas episode. That's great. The Simpsons X-mas book, I think, even has a dedication to Snowball. Oh, really? In the front.

I think it says. And we learn. Oh. It says, like, dedicated to the memory of Snowball 1. Oh, wow. And we learn in a non-continuity episode snowball one was killed by the mayor's beer swilling uh brother clovis oh that's right yeah but that was in a tree house so yes all right not not doesn't count as continuity yeah but at this point why not sure yeah we need to we should meet clovis by this point but uh well we talk about disney plus that okay so when marge is saying grandpa's feisty as ever they have a

painting of grant or a photo of grandpa behind her so new viewers who didn't see grandpa in the shorts can be like oh that's grandpa right there in the cropping you you see grandpa's chin like it's just not grandpa's chin is as feisty as ever well they promised to fix it, so they better fix it. It'll get fixed. I also think of that moment of Homer shouting at Marge there as the transition from Shorts Homer to sitcom Homer. Because Shorts Homer would have just yelled at her and just said, like, Marge! It would have ended there. The softer Homer of the sitcoms then goes, I'm sorry. I'm just a big kid.

Homer famously loves Christmas so much. We all know that about him. It's one of his best known traits. It makes him very likable in that moment. And Dan is already capturing the Homer sounds of like, when he can't find the extension cord is all tangled up. Not unlike our extension cord is all tangled up not unlike our extension cord right now but i i am not frustrated by that in the least then we get

the kids writing their letters to santa which uh this is one of those scenes i that as a kid you just think like yeah they are just writing their letters to santa the real person who exists but now as an adult you're like oh marge is trying to get the list of gifts from their children with the live like i'll send these to santa claus though bart doesn't believe already even though later he does like in uh miracle on evergreen terrace he believes in santa claus he thanks santa for a gift that's a pretty subversive element for this uh that we kind of forget about that up front it's like there's no santa claus hello kids watching at home. This is all made up.

And you're probably watching this with your families right now. Yeah, I never believed in Santa Claus. So seeing that, I remember recognizing, like, ah, he's smart like me. You know? Oh, man. Yeah, I don't think I did either. My mom would just like, don't ruin it for other kids. Oh, really?

She just said that up front. My parents were very, well, my mom was very invested in keeping Santa Claus the myth alive. To the fact that like for, I forget exactly why, but for one Christmas we were out of town. But we were told like Santa will drop off your presents when you come home or when they'll be waiting for you when we get home on like december 28th and like whoever did it put uh like a soot covered footprint on our carpet wow to trick me and for like the next couple years when other kids would tell me like santa's not real i was like i saw the footprint santa's real and he's filthy that's very nice yeah but yeah also uh lisa gets her one defining season one character trade here of wanting a pony was it on the one of the shirts was like a penny saved as a pony yes that was what they honed in on for like the one piece of leech the clip art they put on shirts

and mugs although i do have the overachiever coffee mug from this era it's really good oh yeah there should have been more embrace nothingness uh yeah her arcade game phrase right i prefer yellow which he does say you know he doesn't i don't think he's no he says dough in this episode but he also does say yellow so uh i think i started doing that as a kid because Homer made it seem so cool. I would do yellow and I would do a hoi hoi. And yeah, Bart instead is a more realistic gift of a tattoo, which in this episode, it's like $16 for a tattoo. Is that even by 89? No way.

That sounds crazy. Maybe a very bad one. In prison. Though our friend of the show who did an episode with us, Matt Apodaca from Earwolf Podcast, How Did This Get Played? Yeah. He has the moth tattoo. Oh, that's great. He has it like on his inner forearm. Yeah.

And it's the full, it looks exactly like it and it says moth. That's great. It's a good Homer line where he says you can't get that tattoo until you can pay for it. Kicked you the wrong lesson. It's very, yeah, not till you're 15 style joke. And then we get the introduction of

Julie Kavner's two other most prolific voices on the show, which, uh, yeah, you know, the read in this episode to me is they're not, they don't live in Springfield.

Yeah. That's what I thought too. Watching it again. Yeah. And in my read also is that they're less open with their hostility, especially the, a lot of things are just murmured to each other and not just out loud. There's a lot in general,

a lot of murmuring on this show. It's funny for how loud Simpsons gets later that there's more passive in general a lot of murmuring on this show it's funny for how loud simpsons gets later that there's just more passive aggressive murmuring i i love the introduction of uh penny and selma yeah yeah and this show and i think we learned from bill oakley recently i don't know if this was on the record before but um oh that was on stage he said it so this is on the record it was a recording we recorded it we released it but uh apparently this points back to some more sam sam simon issues with women and that he did have a really uh a really mean sister-in-law at least the sister-in-law he did not like yes from his perspective she was pretty cruel so it's like i'll take my revenge on you via cartoons and that's

where patty and selma came from. Interesting. Though, on their side, Homer is a bad husband and they should be disappointed they got married. He's only seven hours late later. But yes, let's meet Patty and Selma over the phone here. Yeah, hello. Marge, please. Who's this? May I please speak to Marge?

This is her sister, isn't it? Is Marge there? Who shall I say is speak to Marge? This is her sister, isn't it? Is Marge there? Who shall I say is calling? Marge, please. It's your sister. No. Hello? Hello, Marge.

It's Patty. Selma and I couldn't be more excited about seeing our baby sister for Christmas Eve. Well, Homer and I are looking forward to your visit, too. Somehow I doubt that Homer's excited. Of all the men you could have married, I don't know why you picked one who's always so rude to us. And a gentle fade out. That line even fades out, too, which is like,

I forgot, not thinking of a punchy line to end a scene with, but still, it was a magic trick we were all watching, so it's fine. Yeah, it's all very non-Simpsons editing tricks too they changed a lot of their editing style it's a very crossfade heavy uh episode absolutely yeah and then we get our well again not in order actually i think this is the first flanders uh again a lot of these characters appeared for the first time in the previous quote-unquote episode the telltale head or sorry quote-unquote previous episode, but this is his first speaking

role. Really? So this is the actual first speaking role for Flanders? Yes. And then what about Patty and Selma? Yeah, I believe this is their first, their straight-up first appearance. They also appeared for the first time in Telltale Head. Oh, right. Yeah, they're there too. Sorry. Wow, interesting. There are so many characters that are just part of the mob,

and then later they're given, like, a speaking role later in season one. But yeah, Flanders here, he's not like a super Christian. He's not a goody-goody. He's just established to be the better man, the better husband, the better father. That's his main trait in this episode. Watching it and seeing that utility of character just really made me like Flanders as a character. That's all he is. of character. It just really made me like, uh, Flanders as a character, like that all,

that's all he is. He just needs to be the better provider for his family. And that's it. Just the, the like show off on his block too. Yeah. But he doesn't even mean to show off. He's just, he's just like a nice guy.

Yeah. Though, uh, though the hyper Christian Flanders were, we just seen in season 10, he's not the type who would put X-mas and Santa on his house. That's true. And I think this is sort of maybe even like a lingering yuppie joke, just this conspicuous consumption of Flanders where we're still in the 80s. It's like, why does this guy have so much money?

He's living beyond his means, perhaps. Oh, yeah. Well, all this talk about credits in the next episode in production order right yeah it's uh that that yeah you know what he he was a yuppie before before he became a christian he was a yuppie uh and it also only had one child too right yeah well we were pre-rod or todd pre-todd yeah uh this it's also funny to see this after doing Miracle on Evergreen Terrace because they do this joke again in Evergreen Terrace of Homer on the roof and falling off the roof while doing the lights.

Bart's line is, it's craptacular. I think in this one he just goes, ugh. Yeah. A lot more downplayed in this one. Homer's fall off the roof is so slow and soft. It's great. It's like he just falls and he's fine. It's like a very realistic fall off the roof.

It's like, well, look, this is a father of three. He needs to land in a big patch of snow and be like, ooh. Oh, that was almost bad. And that's all. I like the foley work the the sound of the one bulb like pop it's perfect yeah the the the single pop is funnier than any of the jokes of them reacting to to the bad lights and uh then it comes back the next morning and there's a really it goes by so fast but one of my favorite like like you were talking about layout the like

overhead shot of the breakfast table. Oh, yeah. That's a wild shot. That's exactly the word we used when we were watching yesterday. We were like, whoa. Wow. Yeah. But, yeah, it's time for doing the Christmas shopping,

and they reveal that Marge has a stockpile of money that she's been hiding from Homer this whole time. It's up there between her two bunny ears. Oh yeah, they're holding on to it like tight. That's how it stays up there. I like to imagine that we always should read Marge as walking around with a jar of money in her hand. That's why her posture is so good, right?

Yeah, I mean, and also why she has those big ropey muscles. She's carrying that around on her head uh yeah the i that was like the first joke with her hair they ever did i think yeah never did it in the shorts like a joke with her hair it's a very specific like hair related march joke yeah uh and yes uh i also like how 80s bart feels he's like cool, cool, the mall! That does date it. There's no reason to go to a mall now. In America. And also that they, like, the mall is so popular they have to park in, like,

spot double Z. Yeah, and that layout of the mall is just gorgeous. Where you see the parking lot and then you zoom out and you see the whole thing. It's, like, really well drawn. When you see stuff like that it's like, no, they are trying with this animation they really are like uh and yeah homer uh homer seemingly not realizing it's in her hair even when he closes his eyes like i think you would

hear the hair rustling right and know it came out that and that's one of the things that you know talking about you know seeing only this episode the first time that's like one of those great uh pilot tricks that you see everywhere you find a way to explain something that's weird or interesting about the characters so you have this hair it's like they found a way to make that like part of it so that when you see it you're not just like what's up with this hair? Like, why is it so tall? Why does the mother on this show have four foot tall hair? Exactly. That's an odd thing. It makes you stop asking that question.

You're like, oh, that's where that money is. It's to hide the money. Yeah. It's always been to hide the money. Yeah. And when they go to the mall, there's some also like definitely feels like the chupo style of the the kids and the um train going by like the train set shot that uh uh it's not in this one but there's a lot of also like uh kind of rugrats opening zoom in shots they did a lot of these years yeah a lot of zooms in

general yeah for sure not a lot of mall jokes i think in the next two years it'd be like the joke would be like could you believe this store is real can you believe it they've got a store for this now but no these stores are all except for the tattoo parlor which you would not see in a mall a mall 30 years ago today they would totally rent an empty spot in a mall if you want to show up at a mall you can have whatever business you want to be there they'll take your money but yeah they're very normal uh background signs in this mall yeah yeah i think uh probably once the animation comes back they get like oh there's the maybe the writers finally understand like there's all this screen real estate we're passing up on by not having a sign game right

there i mean surly sailor tattoo parlor not their greatest joke no but this uh this guy would never appear again he's got to be a relative of the comic book guy right yeah i thought that too he seems like uh marvin monroe and the comic book guy fused a little bit yeah yeah if your beard can exist outside of your chin line then that's a really weird old design like comic book guy yeah get away with that now and monroe monroe i love i love when even when they bring back monroe they like how they have to futz around with that character to make him look acceptable in the season it doesn't quite work yeah it never really does but i like seeing him try it's fun to see him try but yeah that's where there's the 1595 tattoo that bart can get but uh there's also a cutaway to chronologically

the first appearance of Burns and voice-wise Smithers. Attention all personnel. Please keep working during the following announcement. And now, our boss and friend, Mr. Burns. Hello. I'm

proud to announce that we've been able to increase safety here at the plant without increasing the cost to the consumer or affecting management pay raises. However, for you semi-skilled workers, there will be no Christmas bonuses. And one more thing. Merry Christmas. Oh, thank God for the big jar And a slow

Dissolve to the next shot So that That office that Burns has so that was like established In like Homer's Odyssey maybe Yes yeah it's the one that Homer Falls out of right Addressing the crowd after he gets his job back

Yeah I think it's the exact shot set up from Homer's Odyssey. Maybe they reused the background. Actually, the painting looks better this time, the painting on his wall. I love in his smaller old office, the bear is still there and they transfer over his

giant stuffed bear to the bigger one. Yeah, no Smithers. We can't see his skin color if it is original smithers or what but uh yeah that's uh that's harry shearer's burns there and now that you mention it as this being him as a safety inspector which they have a bunch of homer walking by things to check their safety oh yeah this is true right but also what burns his speech says, I see it now, is like he is blaming their new safety protocols for the new budget that made it so they couldn't afford it. I'm reading it that way too now. Knowing what is supposed to happen before this.

Yeah, that makes sense. Which is what executives do. That's a perfect excuse to say, oh, there's no budget. Weird amount of episode to episode continuity here. Yeah, yeah. Not that I never noticed that until bob finally brought up yeah in season one they get pets homer gets a new job it's uh it's all over the place yeah you don't really see any other employees in this one either like it's it's just

homer in the shots but he does at least you get to see the power plant break room for the first time and him eating donuts as he normally does in there that's uh and yes again is people who've worked in offices like i never got a christmas bonus never expected no actually we got the same christmas bonus at our last job together henry it was a 14.99 cafe press gift certificate that we didn't do i did not redeem yeah after they laid off 25% of their global workforce and canceled the Christmas party, we got a Cafe Press gift certificate. Yeah, I think we're lucky to get donuts out there.

I think, you know, I don't want to say they never gave me anything. At least once at one of my website jobs. Not that website. I got like a $50 Amazon gift card. That's not bad. That'll save Christmas. I'll almost buy you a video game

for your video game job. I like that Homer doesn't acknowledge the directive to keep working during the message and he's just standing there eating donuts. That's good. Stick it to the man, Homer. And also before that

is the tattoo fantasy. I should have mentioned that oh yeah bart's bart's fantasy of like i like that it's sweet to me that bart wants to do it to make marge proud getting a tattoo of mother right yeah yeah but of course later on the episode marge would be not proud yeah whoa sorry yeah the the crossfade from Homer to Marge of saying, like, thank God we got the big jar. Then that's where Marge says her great line, where's that barge?

Where's that barge? And then we meet Dr. Zitzofsky, who I just learned the name of, learning new things every day. And it's really part of that season one awkwardly naming characters based on traits like Mr. Largo, J. Lauren Pryor, because because he pries into your, you know, personality and lifestyle. I mean, Skinner too.

B.F. Skinner. Yeah. Also. Crabapple. Yeah. Crabapple. And the one that's kind of a missing link is Marvin Monroe. I think on one of the commentaries they were saying he was formerly a woman or he was like

a cross-dresser or some sort of gender thing where he wanted to be Marilyn Monroe. Marilyn Monroe. Yeah. Yeah. But that was a trait that was not included in the show yeah something tells me they might not have stuck the landing with that yeah i i think their best season one name joke is arnie pie with arnie in the sky yeah that's that because it should be pie in the sky that's the obvious name to call it

yes what barge's answer to where's that part is getting a tattoo who which he stops right in the middle of it so instead of saying mother it says moth but that guy got really far on that yeah yeah the amount of blood that would be coming off a part you know i've never gotten a tattoo i still i probably said this in 2015 i still mean mean it. I'm, I'm scared to commit to a permanent thing. Like get one that's meaningless. It's painful though, too. No,

it's not. No, Bob, Bob has more. He has several tattoos. I only have two. Okay. More coming.

Uh, now man, should I get a Simpsons tattoo? I can't, I can't steal Matt Apodaca's, uh, moth tattoo. You definitely get a Simpsons tattoo.

You can't get that or dignity. Too many people have dignity. Boy, alright. I'll keep shopping around for one. Or the Flying Hellfish logo. You have to find your most obscure favorite Simpsons joke. Bart then gets taken to a skin care specialist

who has very rough standards at this place. Where's that part? But mom, I thought you'd like it. Yes, Mrs. Simpson, we can remove your son's tattoo. It's a simple routine involving lasers. Cool. However, it is rather expensive, and we must insist on a cash payment up front.

Cash? Thank God for Homer's Christmas bonus. Ay, caramba! Now, whatever you do, boy, don't squirm. You don't want to get this sucker near your eyes or groins. So weird to hear just a needle drop thing on the yeah it's like that's shocking to hear like you'd hear that at random stimpy for like beavis and butthead even oh yeah oh they did that yeah yeah also the yeah where where's that where part? I'm going to start using that every day. But the more famous saying in that clip is,

I carumba. That's his chronological first one of those. And a million t-shirts were sold with that phrase. And within six months of this episode's airing, he said, like, don't have a cow man. He said, like, maybe once. But this one, he said I carumba a lot of times.

And, yeah, I think this taught me the word growing as it came to. I think I was with you there. Yeah, I think they mentioned in the commentary that saying the word groins on TV was weird at the time time was the joke where uh where grandpa was mad about the use of the words family jewels a reference to that it might

have been get him right in the family jewels bart gets his uh tattoo removed that leads to the outquitted joke which was another of my favorites as a child like just easy repetition just and that feels like just a bit of shorts humor put in the show oh yeah yeah it's true but also that joke easily could have been in a in a future episode with the exact same rhythm to it yeah yeah the you know they that one really has the simpsons rhythm there there's also the music you could hear in this there's a lot more like music you just hear like, well, they're at the mall, they're playing music. Like, yeah, just these more like, I guess, diegetic

is how they're supposed to sound. Most Simpsons episodes have very little music in them. Unless it's like a purposeful montage or something or a song. Like later in this,er's at moe's and santa baby is playing on the radio that's so weird i think i heard that for the first time

because i was listening with headphones it's so low in the mix really low yeah which is like they spent all that money on santa baby to barely hear it uh but yes says homer is at first entertained with Bart's wound, and then he finds out the shocking news. Ow, quit it. Ow, quit it. Ow, quit it. Ow, quit it. Hey, what's with this? Ow, quit it.

Used to be a real boss tattoo. But Mom had to spend all the Christmas money having it surgically removed. It's true! The jar is empty! Oh, my God! We're ruined. Christmas is canceled. No presents for anyone!

Don't worry, Homer. We'll just have to stretch your Christmas bonus even further this year. Homer? Oh, yeah. my Christmas bonus. How silly of me. This will be the best Christmas yet. The best any family ever had.

That Western is just blaring in the background. Yeah, I'm like, what is Bart watching? Bart loves Western. Yeah, I think a lot of the show in the first season was just beingaring in the background. Yeah. I'm like, what is Bart watching? Bart loves Western. Yeah. I think a lot of the show in the first season was just being anachronistic. Like, here is a post-war family, but it's almost the 90s. But there's still the slingshot, the skateboard, watching Westerns, doing the mambo. They're baking all this old stuff into a new show.

That definitely feels like a Dennis the Menace watching Westerns on TV. Like, Bart should have a cap gun he's shooting at the TV. Right. No, I didn't catch that being of classic Western sound effects until this very moment. All I can hear are horses screaming now. And, yeah, great, great Homer acting there, but for, if

they're writing this as more realistic, they're writing Marge as very stupid to not get that homer lost all the money oh yeah because they're they're i remember them not being in the same room during that moment which would explain it a little better but actually they are in this they are they're both somehow standing in front of the same doorway yeah yeah they folded space and time yeah that tv's just too loud yeah uh but great like Silverman-y kind of poses On Homer's like freak out

Like Silverman really Or I mean Under his direction at least Like he loves a Homer freak out Like I think he defined The Homer freak out For the show I think the first one

Was really in the series Was in Bart the Genius Him just like Pounding on the door At the end Right Yeah Because he wanted

To beat his son if only he could beat his green naked son the one of the show is so popular but yeah incredible line read there yeah oh my god yeah and then there's some real front facing simpsons there too like in uh in when homer lee uh like keels over and Marge goes like, we'll just have to stretch out your bonus more this year. It is a weird looking front facing Marge. But I love that awkwardness of a front. These characters were not designed to ever be seen front facing. No, it's true.

And so it just demands it. But if a scene posing demands it, they just make it work. And then Homer goes outside and feels suicidally depressed for like uh in production order the second time in the series i love that shot where he just hangs his head down it's very pretty yeah i mean that that is the the shot that kind of clues you in as an audience like oh this episode's actually going to be incredibly sad yeah uh and you you really feel it, too. Yeah, the level of pathos in this is actually surprising to me.

There's a couple scenes where I'm approaching it thinking of Captain Goofball Homer and not a human man. Right. So, like, in a little while when he leaves Circus of Values and has a single tear of shame. Oh, yeah. I feel so bad for this man. like in a little while when he leaves circus of values and has a single tear of shame oh yeah i feel so bad for this man this isn't this isn't captain wacky when the act two comes back in it's a bedroom scene which this is something bob had pointed out recently the uh that jean and reese love that stuff yeah just a way to sort of uh you know not reset the story but sort of retell the problem and you know you fill the audience story, but sort of retell the problem.

And, you know, fill the audience in case they forgot or like ground the story again. And they would read, Al Jean and Mike Reese especially would use these scenes a lot in the second act. Now, this is back when Marge wore like her like poofy 60s evening gown. Instead of just being sleeping nude. Just being naked. Homer almost comes clean. That also makes this more of like a much more traditional sitcom kind of plot, too. Like this would have been on Dick Van Dyke, this exact plot line of just, I have to lie to my wife to save her feelings kind of thing.

And the fun side effect of not only his eyes are lighting up at night, but his smile, too. These are cartoon characters. It's super funny. It definitely got a laugh out of me watching it again. lighting up at night but his smile too yeah these are cartoon characters it's super funny those it definitely got a laugh out of me watching it again uh that was something like graining wanted to do more often on the shorts because he was just like i want to save you guys trouble so for this week bart's in the closet for most of the episode and you just see his eyes or it's a blackout they gotta turn off the lights like uh there's a couple of those kind of

that i i wouldn't even complain of like oh this is cheap because it's just like they're very tired it's at the end of a long season and they are they're very short-staffed uh but yeah so homer heads to circus of values the same place where millhouse gets his eight ball in a couple seasons there's no uh try and save yet yeah it feels like a proto try and save but i guess it's a it's a separate store it's like a dollar store it seems like yeah and i i like him trying to convince himself these toys are good but he does forget lisa when maggie's the one he normally forgets yeah and then you see these scenes of homer like counting every penny and trying to save this money because it's like simply not in his budget. He can't even like use a credit card.

That's established in the bedroom scenes like and guys whose credit cards don't make that beeping noise, meaning he's always overdrafted. We'll hear that in the next episode, too. When he goes to Bob's to get the RV. That's the warning that if I go blind to not sell this to somebody. Yeah. Yeah. Compare that kind of frugalness to in season seven, Homer pulling $900 out of his wallet. Right.

Which is a great joke, but this is, they're actually thinking about budget at this point. Yeah. I know that the writers got bored of simpsons don't have money stories but uh i'm not i i seriously think uh that's something that really should have kept going and you know maybe i don't know they could just bring it back and be like oh yeah they are poor like everybody in america yeah yeah yeah i think bob's burgers kept track of that longer like yeah i still think bob's burgers sometimes will just cheat and they'll be like hey we got an extra check we forgot about let's go on a vacation somewhere but having that explanation is nice yeah yeah at least by that but

mostly they are like oh uh can we we're two months late on our rent again. I like those more. Yeah. This like it causes tension here for Homer. Yeah. I also like, it feels like a joke that didn't fully go through the animation. The, the way Homer tears the dog toy. Oh yeah. We discussed that.

It was kind of unclear what the goal was. I couldn't tell if he was supposed to be like looking at the, uh, the like label on it or something, or trying to hide that it was a dog toy. I think that's it. I think that's it, yeah. A toy for dogs, get rid of that.

But then he says, oh, but she can't read, and that's why he leaves it on and drops it. Right. I'm guessing that was the intention of it. I think we figured it out after 30 years. Oh, yeah. So I actually hear the clip of Homer doing the Christmas shopping here. Probably the only time he's ever bought a gift for his children, I think.

Marge, Marge. Let's see. Ooh, look. Pantyhose. Practical and alluring. A six-pack. Oh, only $4.99 Ooh, that's a paper

I bet Bart can think of a million things to do with these That just leaves little Maggie Oh, look, a little squeak toy It says it's for dogs, but she can't read Oh, Simpson, it's you Hello, Flanders Oh, my my what a little mess we've got here well which ones are yours and which ones are mine well let's see oh this one's mine and this one's mine this one's mine and they're all yours hey mr simpson you dropped your pork chop give me that well happy

holidays simpson hey dad this is going to be the best Christmas ever. You bet. Yeah, that's where there's like genuine, like kind of almost sappy emotion of Homer there just like crying. I think Flanders knows he has it better than Homer in this scene. I don't think he's oblivious. I think he's rubbing it in. I think so.

But I do love that music in the background. I say if you want to find a truly haunted experience, go onto YouTube. You can find actual recordings of an hour and a half of Kmart music from the 70s that they were just playing in the store. Oh, yeah. That's awesome. Yeah. That's my new lo-fi beats to sleep or sleep. Put that on at your Christmas party.

That's great. Clear out the room. Also, now we've been so trained on War on Christmas that it feels crazy to hear Flanders say happy holidays instead of Merry Christmas. Can they even say that? That's how innocuous it was then, as it should be. It's crazy. I remember watching this part of the episode as a kid and just suddenly feeling this tremendous amount of empathy for every bad gift I ever received. It's being like, oh, I should have been more

grateful. That person was trying with that gift. Yeah, yeah. I think this was what alerted me to like, these gifts I get at Christmas are bought by my parents. Like, they buy them. Not, I knew Santa also gave me gifts, but there were gifts i did get gifts

that were like this is for mom and dad this is from santa i see things yeah and then we in chronological order get our first visit to moe's bar uh or most happen well boy what an expert i am calling moe's establishment gentleman club uh, in order, this is the first appearance in air order. The first appearance, Moe and Barney. Yes. What's the matter, Homer? Somebody leave a lump of coal in your stocking? You've been sitting there sucking on a beer all day long.

So? So it's Christmas. Thanks, Moe. Drinks all around! What with the crazy getup, Barn? I got me a part-time job working as a Santa down at the mall. Wow, can I do that? Well, I don't know. They're pretty selective.

I love this rare yellow-haired Barney. Yeah, the flesh-haired Barney. And he's more realistically drunk than fun cartoon drunk. It's a little darker. I also love the line what's with the crazy getup Barn? It's a Santa

suit. It's very obvious. It's Christmas. That's a real Fred Flintstone kind of line too. In total, what's with the crazy getup Barn? Yeah. And this is the most Mo has ever cared about a person in the show too like he doesn't

want Homer to keep drinking and he's just like ah here like he gave him a free candy cane when would Mo ever give any you know you're paying for that right Homer that'd be the joke now a decade later he will be pointing a shotgun in Homer's face and demanding to Give him money

Yeah and that Santa baby song is just so distracting Yeah a lot of the background stuff Is distracting when it's Especially when it's just isolated from the image It really sticks out now And yeah so Homer takes the Story turn of that he's gonna be

Get a night time job as a Santa Claus. Him going to Santa school. This is two, three years before David Sedaris' Santa Land Diaries come out. Yeah. I looked it up. I was like, oh, that probably came out in 87 or something. But it was 92, at least when NPR first played it, his essay on it. Yeah, maybe this comes from some

actual real world experience somewhere. Yeah. It feels realistic this kind of like back room in this like learning annex where they're teaching them all the Santa rules. And this guy does not have a name. His name is Santa Teacher in your book. Yeah, Santa Teacher.

On the wiki, I'm surprised it's not like Mr. Elfman or something like that from this era. It definitely would be. This guy has a secret talented hypnosis. Oh, right. Oh, that's true. He will hypnotize the baseball players to play better in

Burns' softball team. Is it the exact same design with the weird think it's a weird cone head yes yeah in season three it's pretty distracting to see that that pinheaded character it's a very strange head uh but well it it fits for at least in the season one of a commanding jerk who's uh like telling them they won't be paid until Christmas Eve which like this I think really the secret here is that this is a pyramid scheme that Barney got Homer into. He got a bounty for

bringing in Homer. Yeah. That's what I think. In this episode this is all I know about Donna Dixon is from this episode. Dan Aykroyd's wife. That's all I knew. And she was in like the most recent movie she was in before this that was popular was Spies Like Us So like a blonde

Attractive actress didn't do a ton But Donna Dixon sort of sounds like Donner and Dixon And Nixon this was how I learned Of the existence of Richard Nixon As a child In 10 years he'll be a major character in Futurama This also I mean

Barney in general is a more conniving and together Barney than he's ever been since this one, too. He's more successful than Homer in this episode. It's true. And, yeah, so Homer was apparently home seven hours late, which makes it feel like it's, is this 11 p.m. and the family's

there? Like, oh, wait, actually, yes, let's hear Homer in the Santa school here. Ho, ho, ho! Ho, ho, ho! Ho, ho, ho! Ho, ho, ho! What is it now, Simpson? When do we get paid?

Not a dime till Christmas Eve. Now, from the top. Ho, ho, ho! Ho, ho, ho! Dasher, Dancer. Mm-hmm. Prancer.

Mm-hmm. Nixon. Comet. Cupid. Donna Dixon. Sit down, Simpson. And what would you like, little boy? You're not really a Santa, tubby.

Why, you little... No, no, Homer. If such an emergency arises, you just tell them Santa's very busy this time of year and you're one of his helpers. Oh, I knew that one, too. That's great. He thought maybe the answer was to harm the child. To strangle the child. Which he's also, I mean, it's also awkward that, like, the teacher's like, I'm going to sit on your lap now and talk to me.

He could just do that from standing away from him. He doesn't need to sit on Homer's lap for it. I mean, this whole bit here does feel, you could see this as just a sketch on Tracy Ullman's show. It's just the Santa school with maybe one of their like recurring characters going to Santa school. Or I guess Tracy Ullman would probably be, would she be the person learning about Santa or would she be the instructor? Where does Tracy fit in? Maybe the instructor. Yeah, she's got to be the crazy instructor.

But yes, that's when Homer gets home and Patty and Selma are there. They've been like pawing Bart and Lisa. It feels even weird like when Bart and Lisa run away from them, they call him Daddy, which is just like, you guys call him Homer. But that's when Homer gets challenged to get a Christmas tree, which a long bit of, it takes a while, this joke. But I do like him stealing the tree.

I really like this joke. One of my favorite things is Christmas tree is slightly irregular. The reveal that it's still $45 because the car is driving in front of it. And you see that $45. That's good. That is good. Yeah. I think Disney Plus probably butchered that slightly. Oh, yeah.

Maybe. You think that the joke is he's going there, but he's going past it. Yeah. Just steal a tree. Yeah. I really appreciated it watching it again. Yeah. And him stealing the tree, it's great because it's so bleak and so dark,

and he's getting shot at. He could have been killed. In another universe, it's the story of Homer being murdered on Christmas Eve for stealing a tree, or like December 20th. There's also a birdhouse joke that it's in there. No bird violence, though. It's winter. The bird a birdhouse joke that it's in there no bird violence though it's winter the bird has left yeah sure yeah well and speaking of winter that's more diegetic sound

they have winter wonderland playing on the yeah there's so there's it feels like their sound design this whole episode is well if somebody would be listening to the radio or there'd be music playing or just it's so much music in here yeah but it does yeah amp up the christmas special feel oh yeah yeah i would say it's a it was a rare thing like on a christmas special but seeing somebody just getting angrier and angrier and more frustrated yeah and violent you know, while listening to Winter Wonderland playing. Yeah, as far as animated Christmas specials go, I don't think any were really about, like, a father pushed too far by Christmas.

And, yeah, then we also get to hear Hank Azaria, like, just a unnamed character. He's so good as just a guy shouting at people offscreen. And some fun, I like the dog animation of the dog. Oh, yeah, yeah shout he's so good it's just a guy shouting at people off screen and some fun the i like the dog animation of the oh yeah yeah it's real good a lot of good dog animation in this episode and uh then we cut to homer on the job he's being asked for like robotoids and goop monsters which feels like very 80s toy i gotta say the Frinkiac doesn't say goop like slime. It has a slur. What? The captioning might have misread that. I'm certain, yeah.

Yeah. It's goop for sure. Shame on you close captioners of 1989. I never, by the way, of those He-Man toys, I never wanted the mucusy ones. It's like, that's gonna ruin my toy. I do not want those. But yes, Homer then is overseen by Bart and his pals, Lewis and Milhouse.

Richard was left home, I guess. Ah, Richard. Named after the comedian Richard Lewis. Richard Lewis. I have to assume. That's what I always thought, yeah. And also, for one shot, Lewis gets miscolored, too. Like, he gets, it's like he becomes Todd Flanders for a second.

Yeah. But then Bart gets a dare. He must do. Get a load of that quote-unquote Santa. I can't believe those kids are falling for it. Hey, Milhouse, I dare you to sit on his lap. Oh, yeah? Well, I dare you to yank his beard off.

Ah, touche. I hope you feel better, Santa. Oh, I will when Mrs. Claus' sisters get out of town. Thanks for listening, kid. Hey, Santa, what's shaking, man? What's your name, Bart-ner? Uh, little partner? I'm Bart Simpson.

Who the hell are you? I'm jolly old Saint Nick. Oh, yeah? We'll just see about that. Oh! Homer! I want a word with you at Santa's workshop, little boy. Cover for me, Elfie.

Don't kill me, Dad. I didn't know it was you. It's Elfie. Nobody knows. It's a secret. I didn't get my bonus this year, but to keep the family from missing out on Christmas, I'd do anything. I'll say, Dad. You must really love us to sink so low. Now, let's not get mushy, son. I still have a job to do.

Hey, little one. Santa's back. Ho, ho, joe. Damn it, Dad. It's a good early doe. Yeah. Later we do hear the bow, bow, the bowl like the one they reuse a lot yeah i think they do that twice later yeah up until like season three they're reusing it i think

yeah uh but man hearing a cartoon character say hell and damn like oh man yeah couldn't believe it i think i just realized about 90 of this special is just a radio or a tv or a pa system playing something in the background while the characters talk i think they were just worried like is this too quiet yeah maybe yeah i well i like uh that bart bart now gets in on the action though so it's not just homer suffering alone like it it lets bart take over like it lets bart join in in the action and the fun. For sure. It's kind of a mature choice because, like, even in future episodes, it probably would have been a more dramatic thing where Bart runs away

or Bart gets in trouble or Bart just, like, laughs at his dad or whatever. But in this situation, it's like his dad has a very frank conversation with him and explains the situation and and appeals to his humanity and bart responds in a respectful manner uh respecting his dad and what he had to do yeah i love i love seeing homer and bart uh together on an adventure it's very like yogi and boo-boo yeah they're fun they're fun together yeah i i feel like an underrated bart continual saying is ah touche He says that a lot. And he's getting peer pressured by Milhouse in that scene, which is like, the voice is there, but the dynamic maybe is.

The fucking order is wrong. Yeah. Milhouse is a lot tougher in these first season. I think once the writers saw him enough times in the show, they're like, no, no, no. That's his submissive nerve. That is not. Homer finds out he's only made $13 for what had to be like days of work, which like should be illegal. But again, that goes into my pyramid scheme conspiracy theory in this episode.

As Homer thinks he is out of money, he finds out this was all part of Barney's plan. Hey, wait a minute. That's right. $120 gross. Less social security. Less unemployment insurance. Less Santa training. $120 gross. Less Social Security. Less unemployment insurance. Less Santa training. Less costume purchase.

Less beard rental. Less Christmas club. See you next year. Oh. Come on, Dad. Let's go home. 13 bucks? You can't get anything for 13 bucks.

All right. 13 big ones. Springfield Downs. Here I come. What? You heard me. I'm going to dog track. I got a hot little puppy in the fourth waist. Want to come?

Sorry, Barney. I may be a total washout as a father, but I'm not going to take my kid to a sleazy dog track on Christmas Eve. Come on, Simpson. The dog's name is Whirlwind. Ten to one shot. Money in the bank. Oh, come on, Dad. This can be the miracle that saves the Simpsons Christmas. If TV has taught me anything, it's that miracles always

happen to poor kids at Christmas. It happened to Tiny Tim, it happened to Charlie Brown, it happened to the Smurfs, and it's gonna happen to us. Well, okay, let's go who's tiny tim i don't think a miracle happens to charlie brown in the charlie brown christmas his friends to torture him until they feel bad so i was running some numbers on this. I don't know how many Christmas Carol TV versions there have been.

But what do you think had more Christmas specials? Smurfs or Charlie Brown? Smurfs. I would think Charlie Brown. I'll go with Smurfs. It is Smurfs. There were six Smurfs Christmas specials to this day. And Charlie Brown's only had four.

Four. I was actually talking about this to Maddie yesterday. It's four? I thought it would only be two. Oh, there's three because I want a dog for Christmas. Yes, I want a dog for Christmas. It's Christmas time again. And Charlie Brown's Christmas Tales. Oh, that one.

Christmas Tales. Man, six Smurf ones. Yes, six Smurf ones. We forgot Christmas Snoopy goes to summer camp. Yeah, the Smurfs are Smurf ones? Yeah, six Smurf ones. We forgot Christmas Snoopy goes to summer camp. That's the final one. Yeah, the Smurfs are Smurf's Christmas Special, Smurf's Christmas Carol. So there's a, they did one.

Baby's First Christmas. Tis the Season to be Smurfy. The Magic Sack of Mr. Nicholas. Whoa, whoa. And the Smurf's Christmas. What? They knew exactly what they were doing. Yeah, yeah.

And they play those Smurf's Christmas. What? Look, they knew exactly what they were doing. Yeah. Yeah. And they played those Smurfs Christmas specials every year on television. But then after that, I had to look up how many Christmas episodes of the Simpsons there were. There's probably more than six by now, I think. I'll say 11. I'm going to say 12. Higher. There are 20 Simpsons Christmas episodes. Wow.

It's nuts Are they doing an annual one For the past like 10 years I think they've just Started doing Christmas episodes Every year I think you're right And there are so many

And there are some Christmas episodes That are not even At Christmas time As well Oh wow Yeah Damn

That's On the Smurf thing That definitely feels like Hanna-Barbera knew Where they're like That was a big moneymaker for them. Yeah. Christmas specials. Yeah.

I do like it's kind of a this is like a meta moment in the show of like Bart knows he's in it basically knows he's in a Christmas special. And he's just like, we have to do this crazy thing because in a Christmas special, that would fix everything. That and then like the next scene is seeing the happy little elves. It feels like partially the message of this special is like this isn't like other Christmas specials. Yeah. And that's true, but also in many ways it is. It really is. It really is.

It kind of walks the line really well. But it makes you think that it's not. It makes you think like, ah, this is better than that. I also, as a kid who watched all these cartoons, I liked that Bart had memorized all these cartoons. It could bring up cartoon history to his old man. But yeah, we come back from the break. We're watching Happy Little Elves, which was another season one.

Right up there was Space Mutants, just like constantly appearing characters. It was their attack on like Hanna-Barbera, on Smurfs, really. Yeah, pretty much. And Smurfs final episode aired December 2nd, 1989. So that's why they dropped this bit. They're like, oh, the Smurfs don't exist anymore. This is such an 80s parody. Yeah.

Well, and again, notably, Homer knows who the Smurfs are, but he does not know who Tiny Tim is. So, wait, the Smurfs exist in the same universe as the Happy Little Elves then, right? Yeah. They both exist. I suppose so. Wow. Yeah. Marge says that Homer told them they were going off caroling.

That's why they're on here. And it's a fun cut to Barney and Bart caroling together with We're in the Money, which is like, I feel like Bart only knows that because they sang it in old Bugs Bunny cartoons. Right. That's how I knew that song. It just appeared in Merry Melodies. Yeah. And so, yeah, this is on Christmas Eve at the dog track.

Our family did go at Christmas time to the local dog track a few times. No way. I was a big gambling fan. Wow. So, yeah, there was the Orange to the local dog track a few times my dad was a big gambling fan wow so yeah there was the the orange park florida dog track and my mom would make the joke of we don't open our presents until the eighth race like she would quote this line it was i mean was it as like uh seedy and disgusting as as shown here no it was a little better yeah i mean the clientele was still seedy i mean it was mainly just like guys in their 60s wasting their their money like that's pretty much what it was and a lot of smoke it was also like yeah you could smoke there so uh i i remember getting the first

simpsons comics and stories around when i went to the dog track with my dad one time and just reading it over and over again while I was waiting for it to go home. If you can't gamble, the dog track is quite boring. Sounds like it. It's 10 to 1 odds, so Barney's going to make $130.

I mean, not bad. He's just going to drink it all anyway. Enough for a sweet date with Daria. Yes, yeah. But Homer wants to drink it all anyway. Enough for a sweet date with Daria. Yes, yeah. But Homer wants to make a bigger bet. I guess world winners are only hope for a merry Christmas. Attention racing fans, we have a late scratch in the fourth race. Number eight, Sir Galahad, will be replaced by Santa's Little Helper.

Once again, Sir Galahad has been replaced by Santa's Little Helper. Mark, did you hear that? What a name! Santa's little helper? It's a sign. It's an omen. It's a coincidence, Dad. What are the odds on Santa's little helper? 99 to 1. Whoa! 99 times 13 equals

Merry Christmas. I got a bad feeling about this. Don't you believe in me, son? Ugh? Come on, boy. Sometimes your faith is all that keeps me going. Oh, go for it, Dad. That's my boy. Everything on Santa's Little Helper. I do like that Bart understands gambling odds better than Homer.

Yeah. While you don't bet on 99 to 1 shots. Yeah, and he loves his dad so much that he's willing to let him do something incredibly stupid. Yeah. Well, and also Bart's reaction to, well,

that's a very un-Homer line to say, like, sometimes your faith in me is all that keeps you going. That feels very Jim Brooks-y to me, I think. But, so they put it all on Santa's little helper. We do a quick cutaway to,

this is the one other scene where Lisa actually gets to do anything in this. Oh, yeah. It's mainly just to put her ants in their place. Yay! Unadulterated pep! It's almost nine o'clock. Where is Homer anyway?

It's so typical of the big doofus to spoil at home. What, Aunt Patty? Oh, nothing, dear. I'm just trashing your father. Well, I wish you wouldn't, because aside from the fact that he has the same frailties as all human beings, he's the only father I have. Therefore, he is my model of manhood,

and my estimation of him will govern the prospects of my adult relationships so i hope you bear in mind that any knock at him is a knock at me and i am far too young to defend myself against such onslaughts go watch your cartoon show dear that's like the the biggest like lisa-y moment of the of the smart lisa we know yeah for sure this is uh because in the short she was basically just written as a slightly smarter hellion like right yeah not the you know incredibly gifted child they make starting to evolve into that here yeah and i like how in the scene she goes from being like a kid who is super into her Smurfs knockoff show to then have this incredible speech about what male role models mean to her in her life. It's touching.

Yeah, I also like Grandpa's review of it, too. Is that his only line in this episode before the credits? Before that, he goes, blah, blah, blah, when he wakes up. The other line is, oh, Homer. Pretty much like, where's that bar i want the where's that bard uh t-shirt now from yeah uh and so we cut back to the dog track and uh the dogs get in the race and it's uh clear instantly that santa's little helper is immediate last place like far far behind there's a great joke of just uh five

seconds of them waiting to see if the like well i'm gonna watch the dog finish now let's go uh yeah the the dog names uh are they're not funny enough they're kind of funny there's the basically sir galahad yeah yeah is that a joke? I guess not really. Dog of War is a joke. Dog of War is the one joke, yeah. Though, I mean, the names are funnier in the race in two dozen and one. She's the fastest. I mean, this is why they started working all night to come up with funny names for things,

so that we could not make such negative reactions to the names of things. Names are taking up space and time, so they better be funny. Those 4 a.m. nights were worth it for them. Just to make us go like, yeah, good name. But yes, they lose. They are very pitifully searching for a winning ticket in the dog track, which that is sad that's that's yeah that's a bottom that is like so and again and again the lack of balance with like

you know again other episodes would would be sad but they would always by that point the humor of the show was very heightened there were surreal moments it was it was not quite as real but this episode is just so crushingly, crushingly sad. Yeah, and I don't know if anybody else read it this way, but upon this viewing I read it as Barney was picking up a sex worker because he didn't go there with a woman.

And he won big. And she's sort of like dressed in the cartoon version of like a fur. It could be. I just read it like following cartoon logic of, oh, he was so successful that he just attracted a partner to go home with. This time I was like, this could be I just read it like following cartoon logic of Oh he was so successful that he just attracted a partner To go home with This could be just like a seedy joke To be like this isn't your mama's Christmas special

This guy's gonna get laid later Huh interesting This is the skeezier instead of just like Garbage pile Barney I don't think he's got like a steady Girlfriend named Daria I don't think that's what his life is about right now She'll never be seen again.

I think other than when the women kiss him for wearing his Kiss Me I'm Left Handed shirt, this is his only time with a woman. I mean, he gives a shot with Selma, but he just gets maced. So if you count that, then that's three times with women. But that's it for Barney. But yes, they do find a gift at the dog track, though. Find any winters,

son? Sorry, Dad. Hey, hey, Simpson! What'd I tell you? Well, let's go, Daria. Beat it! Scram! Get lost! You came in last for the last time. Look, Dad, it's Santa's little helper.

And don't come back! Oh, no, you don't. No, no, get away from me. Uh-uh. Oh, can we keep him, Dad, please? But he's a loser! He's pathetic! He's a Simpson. And that dog owner, or Santa's little helper's owner, would come back. Oh, yeah! That's right, I forgot about that. So, season 14, Old Yeller Belly.

And I really want to believe it's because they were all sitting on the watches again for the first time in 10 years. You're like, oh, yeah, we could do a story about this. What if he came back? I feel like a lot of this came out of them watching the episodes again. A lot of like season 13 and 14 and 15 and so on. Just, yeah. Did you still have the voice of Moe Sislak when he came back? Oh, you know what?

I think it was similar, but they designed the character to be less freakish. I see. It was still Hank Azaria, I'm pretty sure. Huh. Yeah, that was regular Moe, that voice. And then Moe in this was young Al Pacino. It was fully the young Al Pacino voice. But that speech on like, he's pathetic, he's a Simpson, duh.

But I think getting a dog is the opposite of saving money, I think. That's true. That's a short-term solution. Later they had to go shopping for all of the dog food and the crate and all that stuff. That's another mouth to feed. They mentioned on the commentary that they eventually received letters from animal cruelty organizations about how greyhounds usually did get abandoned. And it was a huge problem and uh they were like thanking the simpsons for shedding light on this issue where it's like oh no they're

just trying to solve a third act i mean that's sweet yeah the greyhounds are not uh racing greyhounds are not particularly well taken care of it's uh it's sad it's a sad story so yeah i'm glad this uh this fix for their third act uh pays off for that and yeah that santa's a little helper he'll his name will always be a christmas name in all future appearances so i think that's why they don't even have bart say his name sometimes he's like here boy boy. Like, yeah. Side note, just from listening to it, Barney's still burping. But you can tell, like, when they found the Barney burp, it must have been a real eureka moment for them. They were just like, I'm never letting this burp go. Every character has that burp.

Yeah. Every male adult character. The Barney burps in this, like, the episode probably would have been a few notches better in total if it had Barney burps. That's true. Oh, yeah. Yeah, that's like the perfect. Castellaneta found the perfect Burb. But there is.

Sorry, I did mean to play. Not the full clip, but we do have to hear the Bow-O-G. Oh, yeah. Run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, go, go. Come on, get that rabbit. Come on, go, go, go. And with a lock on last place, it's Santa's little helper. Go, go, go.

Don't worry, Dad. Maybe this is just for suspense before the miracle happens. Yeah, they would love to reuse that one for the next three or four years. So many times. It's a good bow. Yeah, it's good. Not doe, it's bow. Bow.

Oh, jeez. He doesn't say bow. So they adopt a dog. They head home. Everybody's up late waiting for them which like you know world before cell phones it's just like yeah just silence they can't you can't track yeah they just patty and selma assume he's cheating on marge yeah uh with the barts yes so like they just did yeah that's even weirder as a lookout maybe yeah but uh yeah it's i mean to think that these let they're leaving them waiting

up at 11 p.m on christmas. Though even if Homer did win $130 in 1989 what store is open at 11 o'clock at night on Christmas Eve to even buy anything? He'd be heading back to the try and save I guess. Maybe his plan was just like I'll just hand Bart and Lisa $40 each

and call it a day. But yes, they come home and it's a happy ending for the simpsons family i have a confession to make this should be good i didn't get my christmas bonus i tried not to let it ruin christmas for everybody but no matter what I did... Hey, everybody, look what we got. A dog! All right, Dad! God bless him.

So, love at first sight is possible. And if he runs away, he'll be easy to catch. This is the best gift of all, Homer. It is? Yes, something to share our love and frighten prowlers. What's his name? Number eight. I mean santa's a little helper great nice little greeting card ending yeah yeah merry christmas from the simpsons

it's on there they even know what their own logo is i don't have a logo. Yeah, they didn't have to do it, but Homer revealing his lie and owning up to it is great story math. It's great. Oh, good. That box is checked. He did it, even though it does not matter that he did it at all.

It feels good that he has to give in to his guilt and admit what he did wrong, and then just because it's a pleasant Christmas special special he completely gets away with it yeah it's so funny in the years we're in now home they get just so many jokes of homer directly lies to marge's face and she's aware of it yeah yes and in this one it's like homer just, I can't lie anymore, guys. I tried to keep up a brave face. Like, yeah. And yeah, it is weird to hear Marge say, God bless him. And I don't know.

All he did was he brought a dog home. I guess I mean, that's good. Also in this sequence, there's an upside down background. It's just upside down. Yeah, it's just straight up upside down. Which shot and what's the background? You can see, I think, a picture of Bart and a lamp.

And the picture is hanging upside down. The lamp is just on the ceiling. Whoa, that's amazing. Damn, man. I mean, the retake budget is only so big. That's quite a mess up there yeah uh but it's uh it is a it is a sweet ending i uh i like they all get hug around the dog which

also like again buying a pet that is a big change for a household yes yeah they just choose to do it and then we end with a song over the credits of uh bart pulling his trick again of singing the altered lyrics to something which uh this led to me to some childhood frustration because again this was the only time i'd heard this uh this version of rudolph the red-nosed reindeer i thought it was the simpsons version and then when i went to school i so i saw this when i lived in arkansas and then we moved to atlanta and when i went to school, I saw this when I lived in Arkansas. And then we moved to Atlanta. And when I went to school, kids were singing a different, like with 50% different lyrics, an alter version of Rudolph.

And I was like, you're singing it wrong. They're like, we've always sang it this way. You've got to go back to Arkansas. Yeah, I knew slightly different versions of this as well. Yeah. Yeah. It confused me as a kid. I didn't understand like the,

so the like cultural social reasons that like the, the different versions would have spread around then. Yeah. But it frustrated me in my new school to find it didn't make me popular. My new school. Yeah. And the last thing you hear is bargaining strangled by his father. Yes. To kick off 30 years strangled by his father. Yes.

To kick off 30 years of wholesome family fun. Yeah, it's interesting that it's not shown, but you just have to know what's happening there. Yeah, which that also feels like it's one that breaks the Matt Groening rule. Well, I guess it is him just he gets mad and instantly does it, not a premeditated plan. Yeah, he gets mad and instantly does it. Not a premeditated. He's not like stalking him around the house. Yeah,

no, it's just like an instinctual abuse of just like, Oh, just like that. Like, yeah, it's fine. Like,

uh, but wow. What's, uh, well, uh, guys, his last thoughts on,

uh, going back to the original Simpsons episode. Oh, I can see why it was so important for sure. And I think, uh, as slow as you think season one is, and some parts are, this is a very good first episode that wasn't supposed to be the first one.

And I'm guessing you probably haven't seen in a while. And I'm guessing you probably have Disney Plus. And I will say, go out and watch it this Christmas. You'll definitely have a lot of fun, especially with some of the goofier stuff and the stuff that's been changed drastically since this aired 30 years ago. But whoa, what a good 30 years we've had with The Simpsons.

Yeah, it's a truly amazing, pilot and like the thing the thing about it it's it's like before the simpsons was like the funniest show in the world it was this show and it connected with people on this emotional level first and i think that if it did if it hadn't laid this kind of groundwork we would have we probably would have never gotten uh the show in all of its many different wonderful uh forms that it had after this yeah I said it before, but it's rare that you get a Christmas special that has any kind of personality to it. I feel like Charlie Brown Christmas maybe had the most personality of any, like, annualized Christmas special. Even though this isn't supposed to be one of those. Looking at it through this lens, it's it's just like well this is a very successful

well-made christmas special and you know it's got that great season one jank to it yeah and it's uh it makes you if you weren't already interested in the family like it does the emotionality gets you to buy into them too especially if you're a child who can identify with bart especially in this uh because lisa doesn't have a ton to do with this no never yeah unfortunately uh i did have one last clip i wanted to play because it was the commercial that came at the very uh in the last commercial break of the simpsons that stirred me so much to make me a simpsons fan for life hi gang this is bart simpson now that i am a huge star now that we're all huge stars the Simpsons fan for life. Hi gang, this is Bart Simpson. Now that I am a

huge star, now that we're all huge stars, the Simpsons are getting their own series premiering Sunday, January 14th on Fox. Was that Krusty at the end there? I love that. Krusty groaning? That background music is also amazing. I guess that's how broken the series was you

still had to wait a month for it to start wow well also especially back then it's like you don't premiere a new thing over the christmas that's that's true yeah and i guess that means the simpsons was like a mid-season well i guess they had to become by by necessity a mid-season show and they also they have one shot for they have like two shots from Bart the Genius in there, but they start it with a shot from the, I believe it's the last short, Bart on TV. Oh, wow. He's got the bunny puppet on the TV, so they're using that to fake Nancy Cartwright talking.

They're saying new Bart lines. They're saying, now that I'm a huge TV star, thanks to my new episode here. I know I was excited when I saw that. I thought, in 30 years i'll be talking about this for money mark my words everybody so if you want extra nostalgia on youtube somebody very helpfully uploaded at least their local fox affiliates all the commercials that aired during the simpsons christmas special first time you can see that simpsons was sponsored

by the simpsons christmas special was sponsored by coca-cola and by apple cinnamon cheerios hey i will watch that and airing right after that the sam kinnison guest starring episode of a period with children that's a great one yeah it's a bunty full life i think it's called that'll be our next podcast let's just do that oh boy that was the previous hit on fox before the simpsons too too. But yes, thanks to Ian and Toby for being on the show. We really appreciate it. It's the end of a very long recording day. So thanks for sticking with us. Please tell everybody out there where we can find you, of course,

talk about OK KO, the fantastic show that just wrapped up in the fall. Yeah, watch the show OK KO on the Cartoon Network app and wherever you can find it. And you can follow me at IanJQ on Twitter and Instagram. Follow me at TobyTobyJones in those same places. Woo. Well, thank you so much again, guys. Yeah.

Woo. So thanks again to IanJonesQuarty and TobyJones of OKKO for being our guests on that fabulous redo of the very first episode of The Simpsons. And by the way, we're recording this a little bit later back at Henry's apartment. And we have some special breaking news for you about some exciting things that we want to do with Talking Simpsons in 2020, and you can be part of it. Isn't that right, Henry? Yes, that's right. After going back to Simpsons Resting on an Open Fire for the 30th anniversary, it made me and Bob realize like, boy, we have changed so much as podcasters this podcast has grown so much since we first

recorded it and i i mean like in time it has grown like i think bobby said this episode is like four to five times longer than the first time we did it i think the original uh one is like 40 minutes and our uh our recording just of the in and toby was like 240 yeah so yeah so uh we think that the 30th anniversary of the first season of simpsons premiering is a perfect excuse to go back to the first season and redo it now with all of the new information we have to us anyway new information and stuff we've gotten from interviews to that we know about the series that we didn't know then and also with cool guests that we now get i think it'll be a totally different show if we were to redo the entirety of season one meaning the remaining 12 episodes after the christmas special and now that this is our full-time job and has been for the

past two and a half years we have so much more time to give to producing a podcast about a single episode which is why this one is just so long and full of extra information that was not in the first one that we did yes now that's what we're pitching to you guys that in the new year to line up with the anniversary of the premiere of bart the genius in january we would start doing season one again bart the genius to some enchanted evening now as you know this is a chronological podcast but we would just be hitting pause on season 11. It's not like that we're not going to do season 11. It would just be after we did the 12 episodes of season one in what I like to think of as season one redux.

And so starting today, when this episode goes live on the Patreon, but open to the public is a week long poll to just check with you guys if you're cool with us redoing season one. And I think you guys will really enjoy it if you vote yes on that. But we wanted to put it up to the listeners. Obviously, we really want to do it, and we hope you're on board with us. And I think we're going to get so much more out of them now that we have so much more time and also different perspectives to add to these discussions as well. Yeah, yeah. We were coming at them before as just our memories as children watching it, time and also different perspectives to add to these discussions as well yeah yeah you know we were coming at them before is just our memories as children watching it but now like you know

we've interviewed folks like mike reese and david silverman who worked on this first season we've and mimi pond who wrote this episode we have so much more context for the first year of the show that we didn't have before and and also just um i have so many more views on the first year of the show that we didn't have before. And also just, I have so many more views on the animation side of things that I didn't really have to share at the time in our first podcast. Plus, we have improved clip technology. And also, so many people just signed up for Disney Plus that I think they're watching season one for the first time or for the first time in a long time as we hit the 30th anniversary that I think it's worth re-exploring with you guys as listeners too. Yeah, it's a very good point. I think when people

are buying the DVDs, there really aren't any more, but most of the people I knew never bought season one because they're like, oh yeah, season one, who cares? Season three and four, that's where I started, or maybe even two. But yes, now it's just available almost for free, basically for free. Yes. But so I guess, yeah the the call to action here is if you would like us to do season one and put a pause on season 11 then go and vote on the poll of the patreon and if you'd rather we not then hey we will listen to that too we wanted to leave it up to you guys yeah in our listenership but i hope the fun and informativeness we had on this episode uh really shows you guys what we

could do if we fully redid season one and either way we will eventually get to season 11 so we're not like starting over again we just want to take a little break and talk about the 30 years of the simpsons starting with season one so yes thanks for listening to our little spiel there but as for me i've been one of your hosts bob mackie you can find me on twitter as bob servo my other podcast is retronauts a classic gaming podcast every monday and occasionally on friday please go to retronauts.com or look for retronauts in your podcast machine henry how about you you can follow me on twitter at h-e-n-e-r-e-y-g i'm sure to tweet out things whenever they go live on the free feed or the patreon and that includes that new poll i was talking about and don't forget to follow at talk simpsons pod on twitter that's the official twitter feed that we just renewed it's going great you'll learn about things like the amazing poster

where uh for the season one live show we're doing in january as part of SF Sketch Fest with guest Jordan Morris. The poster that Nina Matsumoto did for us in the season one style is so, so good. Just sign up at TalkSimpsonsPod just to see that right now. And don't forget to vote in that poll. So thanks so much for listening, folks. We'll see you next week for They Saved Lisa's Brain. And we will see you then Rudolph the red-nosed reindeer had a very shiny nose and if you ever saw it

you would even say it was like a lightbulb of the other reindeer you still haven't called him names I never left for Rudolph join me in a reindeer game

Extra poker! I'm warning you too Then one foggy Christmas Eve Santa came to save Take it Homer! Rudolph get your nose over here So you can guide my sleigh today Oh Homer

Then all the reindeer loved him And they shouted out with glee Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer, who'll go down in history. Like a tale of the... And then I want some robotoids, And then I want a goop monster. And then I want a great big giant... You don't need all that junk. I'm sure you've already got something much more important. A decent home and a loving father who would do anything for you. Hey, I can afford lunch.

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