Talking Simpsons - Talking Simpsons - The Susie Dietter Interview

Episode Date: September 14, 2022

Here's big treat for listeners this week as we briefly shift from our standard style to post two brand new interviews! Our first is with Susie Dietter, a legend of The Simpsons, Futurama, and modern animation in general. Susie joined The Simpsons in season 2, directed classics like Radioactive Man and Grade School Confidential, plus Futurama eps like Godfellas, AND she was the first woman to ever direct an episode of The Simpsons. Learn all about that milestone moment and so much more in this honest, illuminating discussion with this talented artist!  Support this podcast and get dozens of bonus episodes by visiting Patreon.com/TalkingSimpsons and becoming a patron! And please follow the official Twitter, @TalkSimpsonsPod!

I heartily endorse this event or product. today as always it's andre gilbert and no i'm not a box a box andre's not a box i can confirm it he's sitting right in front of me it's all flesh and bones but this week uh you're going to hear two interviews the first one you're going to hear right next on this podcast and we're talking to suzy dieter because we're taking the week off from talking simpsons to present you with two interviews from a director that we love and a writer that we love you know it's it's labor day week when this uh is posting and also i just 40 as well, just to earmark this more. But yeah, we've long wanted to chat with both of these people this week, but especially Susie Dieter.

She's one of the best directors the Simpsons ever had. She, I think, you know, deserves just as much praise as any of the other greats from the golden era simpsons and it was so great talking with her about you know she joined in season two and working her way up and and what you know we know all of these people who come from usually the same school and up into animation so to hear her different story about getting into animation like so quickly picking it up just through your just talent and tenacity was was so great and every episode she directed of the simpsons is a stone cold classic and she's done

many more things in her career we focus on the things that you love the most we we drift around a bit and she's a great interview by the way you're really gonna like us talking to suzy yeah we talk about her time on on the simpsons from season two to season uh well i guess aired at nine and as well as her work in the first four seasons of futurama and even her work on beavis and butthead do the universe we learned some really cool stuff and and you know suzy was was very giving with with her story and her experiences and we really really appreciate it absolutely yes i think she will surprise you with some of the answers she gives and it was a very entertaining interview and we thank her for her honesty yes yeah we thank her

so so much for that. So I guess without further ado, let's hear from Susie Dieter. Joining us right now is Susie Dieter. Welcome to the show, Susie. Glad to be here. We don't talk to artists as much as we talk to writers. So it's always a treat to talk to a distinguished director like yourself. Oh man, so much great work.

Thank you. And well, I guess our first question is like, how did you get started in the world of animation? Yeah, it's kind of an interesting story. I was an art major at UCLA doing, you know, fine art. And the last quarter of my last year there, I took an elective in animation that was literally called Animation 101. And I thought, I just did it because I thought it might be fun. But, you know, I never thought about like drawing cartoons for a living. I wanted to do illustrations and stuff like that. And like definitely work in entertainment, but, you know, I didn't think Bugs Bunny was really my kind of thing. So anyways, I took the class and what I realized

was that you could animate anything. You could animate a life drawing. You can animate literally just like anything. And like my brain just exploded. And I was like, oh wow, this is really cool. Then I was like, okay, I want to work on music videos you know I started interviewing with a lot of places the first place I interviewed at was uh Klasky Chupo and they had just finished doing like that Shadrach video for Beastie Boys and they had all the art up on the wall and you know they had like the Simpsons stuff there and I loved the Simpsons and I was like this is where I need to be. So three months, and I just, I was so eager. And like, two months later, they called me.

And they're like, hey, do you want to come in and work on a like a music video or? Yeah, it was a Luther Vandross video here and now. And yeah, and that's how I got started. And, you know, they paid me nothing. But that was okay, because I was just so excited to learn. It was great, but I was going broke. And I had promised I vowed to never move back in with my parents. So I was gonna like I was gonna like take a job answering phones or something like that. When someone who I'd made friends with at the studio said, hey, you know, I saw your work. It's pretty cool. You know, would you like to try out for the Simpsons? And I'm like, what do you mean cartoons? And, and, you know, so anyhow, then I said, how much does it pay? And we, when he told me how much it paid I'm like you mean I can make my rent in a week I said I better learn how to do this stuff yeah I took the test and you know I didn't I just knew nothing about layout it was for character layout and and so I didn't do very well and I was like my ego was all And I was like, D, I can do better than a D.

So what I did, which you can't do anymore, but back then things were a lot more, you know, kind of loosey goosey. And, you know, I had made friends with people at the studio by this time. So I went in and like I sat in, I think it was Wes Archer's office because he wasn't there and his AD, Carlos, was. And so I sat there, took the test at the studio, you know, kind of like, hey, look at me. I'm here. You know, it's almost like I already have a job here.

And, you know, the whole point was for them to get to know me and also do better on the test. And yes, Carlos gave me lots of help, which they wouldn't allow today. But yeah, it worked out. Well, almost. I turned in my test and unfortunately, they had just filled the last position. And I was crushed. And I went home to my parents and I cried. And next thing you know, like the next day or so, the Simpsons called me at my parents' house. I guess my roommate had given him the number. But apparently someone on the crew had decided not to come back.

So they offered me the job. Wow. And I couldn't be more happy. I was just, I was so excited, you know. So that is how I got hired on the Simpsons. And, you know, like staying on the Simpsons was another story because I had no idea what I was doing but I was I seriously I learned everything on the job and I guess I was pretty good at it because like within three years I was directing so pretty good yeah it turned out like me and

animation were kind of made for each other it it kind of had all the you know like once I learned about like acting and how closely it was, you know, how, how much my life drawing experience fed into it and that I had taken ballet for eight years as a kid and it all just kind of, and then I really loved like math and science and physics and all that kind of stuff. So it all just, you know, it worked out really well. And once I learned that, like that I especially loved the acting, I mean, it was like I was on a roll. So that how it started. And then, you know, after a year layout, I was bored. And so I wanted to be an assistant director so I could learn more. And I did that

for a couple of years with Mark Kirkland. And he he taught me everything. I mean, he about, you know, being an episodic director on a show like The Simpsons, he taught me how it was done. So, you know, he was my teacher. And, and then, you know, after two years of that, I was like, you know, I'm, I'm ready to start directing. So, you know, and they were, they were like a little hesitant, you know, because there weren't any female directors on the show. There weren't any female directors anywhere except for like Yvette Kaplan. And she directed the Beavis and

Butthead movie but yeah so and I didn't like know about her at the time but I basically said either make me a director or I'm gonna go somewhere else because people are offering me that job wow yeah I'm muscled into it well we have so many questions out of that but yeah well based on your credits it seems like you started with the first Treehouse of Horror. Is that correct? Because that sounds like while you were working on that, the show was in this about six months period where it was the biggest thing on the planet. Yes, I did work on that.

And that was the show I cut my teeth on. And so one act was Wes Archer. Another act was Rich Moore. And then I think the third act was David Silverman. So I got to work for the three old men straight off the bat. And that was interesting. Yeah. And basically, you know what I would do? I would go around at lunchtime when everyone was gone and I'd go look at other people's layouts that were good so I could go okay what what do my need to start looking like but you know I always did that in life drawing class too I'd go around and look at other people's drawings I was gonna say can you recall

the first scene you worked on in the show does that stick in your memory the first thing you laid out for the Simpsons I do remember like if I saw the show again I could remember what I did but you know, I was brand new. So it's not like they were giving me the really cool scenes. Um, but I think I, I mean, I was just green and, um, everything I did in the beginning was just really horrible. They weren't giving me the tough stuff. I'll guarantee that. Oh, I know what I did that I was proud of. I did the house imploding like the poltergeist house. Oh, wow. That's a great scene. Yeah, that's a great shot.

I was so intimidated. I was, Wes Archer was the director and I was like, I don't know what to do. And he's like, just start drawing. And like,

he was all annoyed with me and I was like, I was like, okay. And so I just did, I started drawing and then I did the pencil test and he was like,

great. And I was like, no way. I couldn't have nailed it on the first try. But yeah, I was proud of that scene. I was so scared of it. Oh, you're too modest. That scene, we just watched that episode in the last year for the podcast. And that scene is amazing.

We wouldn't have thought it was somebody's first thing on The Simpsons. Oh, yeah, it was. But, you know, he kind of, I mean, he kind of gave me the right direction, I thought it was somebody's first thing on The Simpsons. Oh, yeah, it was. But, you know, he kind of gave me the right direction, which is, you know, just go for it. Just start drawing it. And so I did. He didn't say, oh, it has to be like this or it has to be like that.

He just said, just start drawing it. So I said, okay, I'll just start drawing it. It will probably be a mess, but I'll just start drawing it. So that's what I did just start drawing it. It will probably be a mess, but I'll just start drawing it. So that's what I did. It worked out. You mentioned Carlos. Is that Carlos Baeza? Because he is kind of a mystery man to us because it seems like he was never on any of the commentaries

and it seems like he left at least the US animation industry a while ago. So what was he like? He was really nice. He helped me out a lot. Yeah, he was, you know, he was kind of one of my first friends there. You know, I had like on The Simpsons. So, yeah, he was like the first person to take me to Thai food.

I'd never had Thai food before. I remember that about him. But, yeah, he, as much as as i can recall i think he went up to like he was on the east coast and then he was in canada for a while so yeah he's he is kind of a mystery though you're right so you know um i don't know i i really don't know what he's doing now or where he's at but he is a kind of mysterious guy and he did kind of go off to other places and other things but um you know i haven't like really kept track of him like once he left the simpsons i didn't really talk to him again so i am good friends with his brother however

yeah um orlando he's one of my really good friends oh that's that's cool. But we don't, it's not like he comments on Carlos a lot with me, you know? So I, you know, it's like, I know he's like, was back in New York for a while, but yeah, he's a mystery. We always wondered. Wrapped in an enigma, wrapped in a vest. So it seems like by early season three, you got your first AD role on Humber Defined. What was it like working under mark kirkland we actually spoke with mark in an interview uh he's very interesting and his career goes back uh even further than the simpsons uh to hannah barbara stuff in that era and uh

are there any particular moments uh you love working on in your role as ad we just covered burns for a coffin or craft work the one where burn sells the power plant to the germans and since we were about to interview i noticed like oh su oh, Susie's the AD on this one because it's a Mark Kirkland episode and it's a really good looking episode. What an amazing episode. Yeah. Which one was it? What was it called?

Oh, it's the one with a very complex German name, but it's where Burns sells the power plant to the Germans and Homer gets fired. Oh, God. That must have a long time ago. I don't remember that one. Sure, I was the AD on it. That's what it says. It says in the credits.

But it is a Mark Kirkland episode. But do you recall working under Mark, your experience with him and your favorite moments? Was this the one that had an Oktoberfest or something in it? Yes, yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah, on the commentary, Kirkland mentions that you posed out the finger work on the on the music uh pieces for it the the trombone the tuba and all that oh okay then I guess I did

I have to apologize it's like I have mom brain and like when you have a kid it's like all that other stuff gets pushed way back in the in files because, you know, your first priority is like, you know, your kid, your kid. So it may take me a little while to remember some stuff. But I remember the Oktoberfest episode, kind of. Like you said, Kirkland trained you in episodic TV. Like, was it like kind of a segmented thing? Like he'd give you some segments and do that? Or would it be more like, okay, this week you're on like timing or some other department like that? Well, it was, like I said, I learned on the job. So, you know, he taught me everything about

composition and he was very patient, much more so than some of the other directors, he didn't yell. But he was, you know, he and I got along well. And he trusted me. And it got to the point where I was like doing most of the revisions on the show, you know, like if stuff needed fixing, and he guided me, but he didn't like, you know, control me, if you know what I mean. He let me be myself and he was open to new ideas. And, you know, I had told him while I was doing layout, I go, I want to be an assistant director. Can you teach me how to time? So he taught me how to time and I timed some scenes and, you know, we went over it together and then I saw them come back in color. And I was very excited because what I wrote on the page actually is what happened.

I was kind of like, whoa, that's cool. And he taught me how to do acting in the sheets. And then, you know, it was like learning. It's like learning a language, you know, and then, you know, and then, you know, people can teach you so much. And then you just kind of got to take the bull by the horns and start going for it. But, yeah, he taught me how to time. And I really liked it too. I thought it was a really cool kind of thing and the whole language of writing X sheets and stuff

like that. You know, that's what I did. And then I wasn't shy about what I wanted. You know, I went in there and told the producer, I guess the English share gunner. I said, I want to be an AD. You know, and told pretty much anyone who would listen, I want to be an AD, you know, and told pretty much anyone who would listen, I want to be an AD. So, you know, because I figured they couldn't give you something if they didn't know you wanted it, you know. So then I became an AD and I was Mark's AD. And so I continued to learn with him. What was great is that he, as I grew and as I got better, you know, he gave me more and more, you know, responsibility until, you know, the last year it was like, okay, I'll answer questions on this part of the show and you

answer questions on this part of the show. So we divided the work up all, you know, under his supervision, of course. But, you know, I would also start like, okay, like the Grinch sequence. Oh, in the Union episode, right? Where Burns does the Grinch sequence. Oh, in the Union episode, right? Where Burns does the Grinch thing? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I said, I have to do it. And he's like, well, if you do that, you won't be able to pay as much attention to other scenes.

I said, no, I will. I promise. I go, but I have to do the Grinch. I had heard Phil Roman really liked that, the Grinch so much. Yeah, yeah. He never told me. Oh, I'm'm sorry i think it's on the record yeah i i should know um i just didn't you know phil was way up there in the offices and stuff it's not like he came around all that much yeah i just there's certain things from my childhood

that i just adored and like i think in last exit to Springfield, I loved that episode. That was the favorite episode I worked on with Mark. He's probably saying his favorite episode was the Beatles episode, but I liked the last exit to Springfield and doing that get smart stuff. And yeah, I love that show. Oh yeah. I'm trying to remember that wasn't the same one as the, as the Grinch one, right? No, it is. It is. There's a Grinch sequence in that one.

Yeah. Okay. So then, yeah, it was, you know, Lisa needs braces and all that stuff. And yeah, it was good. I liked that episode quite a bit. Well, we mentioned Phil Roman. We're always curious from the animation side. What was the transition like from Classical Chupo to Phil Roman between production seasons three and four? Oh, yeah, that was a big difference.

Well, Godbord Chupo throws really good parties. That sounds fun. He has really good parties and he's really generous. And he, you know, is very much, you know know a kind of crazy artist himself and film roman was you know literally the building was an old bank building and i remember god i don't know if i should say this but you know they were used to doing stuff like i think garfield and um i think that was maybe their big show um but you know the thing about The Simpsons is, you know, Matt Groening didn't want it animated like other animated stuff. He didn't want any squash and stretch.

He wanted it acting to be natural. You know, he wasn't into, you know, bugging out eyes and flapping tongues and animals with human anatomy or anything like that. You know, it was The Simpsons. That's why it was such a breakout show. And the people that filmed Roman just, you know, they weren't used to that. Like, and they thought we were kind of like a little spoiled and a little full of ourselves. But I mean, you know, we were like walking around in our jackets in Hollywood when we lived at Krafke and going to all the restaurants there and people asking us to do them drawings and sign autographs.

And, you know, we knew we were part of something big. But Film Roman kind of didn't. I don't know. It was really weird. And they wanted to do things a different way. And we were like, no. I mean, but they did give us better working conditions. Like everyone had their own cubicle versus like 10 people thrown in a room.

You know, they had better, you know, the directors all had offices. They had them at Class B Chupo too, but these were like nicer windows, nicer offices. They all had windows. You know, it was a nicer place to work in that sense but um it wasn't as cool okay we weren't working with the cool kids anymore and it was

also tough because phil wanted you know certain people of his to work on the simpsons but most of them just they didn't get it they you know they weren't drawing simpsons, but most of them just, they didn't get it. They, you know, they weren't drawing Simpsons, they were drawing Garfield. And that was tough. So yeah, and I remember like, the first Christmas party they threw it with, you know, that we were like, what, we're used to like the palace with like shrimp and lobster and like band and, and they just like had it in some like auditorium somewhere. And we were just kind of like, oh, God, you know, maybe we were spoiled, but we were young, you know, and we were working on, you know, an incredibly successful show. And they wanted people who weren't necessarily experienced because they didn't want to make have to have them unlearned like the traditional kind of Disney or Warner Brothers style animation, you know, and that was like someone like me, I could draw, but you know,

they weren't working against the traditional animation background. So it was much more accepting of how they wanted to do things. So it was a little, you know, bumpy. I remember like there were film rooms taking a long time to call me. Right. I'm kind of like, you know, like when like, when are we going to have that talk? You know, like, what's the deal? And so I called Mike Wolf and I said, hey, let's have a meeting. And so we get in there and he goes, well, what exactly does an assistant director do? Oh, boy. he goes well what exactly does a assistant director do oh god oh boy yeah so he wasn't even quite sure that you know we were necessary so i started talking real quick just to tell him how necessary we were and so that's that's how that went you know but eventually things worked out. But it was I will just say it wasn't as artist friendly as it was at Classiki Chupo.

You know, more guys in suits and executives. And, you know, it was just like people who had been in the business for a really long time and were kind of like, well, you know, they they wanted us to do things their way. And we were kind of like, no, we're the Simpsons. Yeah. Our way. Yeah. You know. So, yeah. to do things their way and we were kind of like no we're the simpsons things our way yeah you know so yeah you know it was it was kind of like that i was looking uh on on imdb your first uh director credit is on on critic with marathon mensch was was was that your first job directing um no i think my first job was i didn't do it oh the. Oh, the Bart Gets Famous. Okay, okay.

It was either Bart Gets Famous or Bart's Girlfriend, but I think it was Bart Gets Famous. That was definitely your first Simpsons in production order. I just wasn't sure where it and the critic lined up, which was first. So, okay, okay, thank you. I did Bart Gets Famous, and then I did go up and do, when I mean up, I mean up there,

to the fourth floor where the critic production was um yeah and i did an episode of the critic well yeah so so that's what i was curious about too because you you i i'd love to hear about you know being the the first woman to direct on the simpsons also because you know on the critic uh we've also interviewed lauren mcmullen who directed in that season two and you know it was yes she did it was so impressive to us that on The Critic, you know, two women direct in the first season when it took Simpsons until season five to finally have you as the first woman directing it.

Yeah, they were... It was interesting. I mean, I'm going to try and be honest without being, like, angry or anything, because I'm not. But, you know, I had my me too moments for sure and it was you know I was you know got the usual oh it's just a misunderstanding you know but someone did continually you know harass me for about a year until I finally said something and then you know they just kind of wanted to brush it into the rug. So it, you know, but so was every other place. It's not like they were any different.

I would say there were more than a few artists that didn't want to work with me and literally went in and said, I don't want to work for a woman. Yeah. I'm sorry. So there was, well, you know, and I, it was weird. Like I didn't even, I mean, I thought it was lame, but there were so many other people that, you know, loved the fact that I was directing on the show and loved my work and all that. So it wasn't like it was all one way, you know, I, you know, I would say that, you know, there were some people who I don't want to, you know, name names or write, you know, take down names. But there were some people who just weren't comfortable talking to me. And so they would come in and talk to my AD when I wasn't there. And and indicate that way. There were, yeah, there were people who,

you know, there was, they would be, you know, passive aggressive, like they do some really racy drawings, like, you know, very well drawn, but very explicit drawings, and they'd plaster them up by their desk. So when I came over there, you know, the message was clear, you know, that it was meant to make me feel uncomfortable. But I just ignored it. It was there, it was there, you know, and there were some people who, you know, hated my guts. And, you know, I didn't do anything to them. And there were other people that, you know, there were some women came in and they just said, wow, you know, like, it's so cool that, you know, you're a woman and you're directing and you're an inspiration. And then there were other women who, you know, really

disliked the fact that I was, you know, I don't know what you call it, like queen bee syndrome or something. But, you know, I was young, I was like 26 or 27 years old. So I was, you know, younger than some of the people that I was giving instruction to. And I was also, you know, very clear about what I wanted. But people, some people got this idea that I was really picky. And I'm like, no, I just, I know what I want. And I think maybe that was what was scary was that, you know, if they didn't do exactly what I wanted, that, you know, it would be a fail or something. So I don't know. I'm not them. I'm me. And, you know, but there was quite a bit, but I also made like Orlando Baeza was, you know, Carlos's brother. He was my assistant director. And, you know, we had the best time and, you know, we had our group of friends. I mean, they're kind of Orlando's friends, but then they became my friends and we had a great time. And I was like, you know, the only girl in the group, but they treated me like just another person. And, you

know, I had my own nickname and we all went to lunch and we just laughed so much. I mean, there is, you know, a lot of good times. And, um, so I don't want to say that it was all bad or anything like that. It just, there were people there who weren't comfortable with me simply because i was a one even to even to outsiders uh even to outsiders just watching the show uh we noticed when we were talking about the critic we did a podcast mini series about it lauren mcmullen does not even go by her full name it's uh it's lh so from the outside you can see oh there's clearly a reason why she does not want to be identified as a woman as a director on this program. Sure. I mean, look at like S.C. Hinton. You know, she was the author of The Outsiders. You know,

there was a lot of women who had to hide the women authors, you know, women artists that had to hide the fact that they were a woman. It's like I never kind of understood like and, you know, there was like, you know, the men who were really good you know at drawing and really good at what they did were sort of i'm gonna say they were worshipped like gods but you know kinda and but the women who were really exceptional at drawing did not get that same status you know and um and you know there were quite a few women who were exceptional. Sandra Roy was a layout artist who was just phenomenal. But it didn't work the same way for women as it did for men.

And if you were a woman and you were very good at what you did, there could be some resentment, not from everybody, but from some people. Well, I'm glad there were good times with the bad there at least but the i mean mark gets famous is such a great like just just pure it's a great script but also like your animation uh that your team you and your team did is just amazing like the there's so many unforgettable shots like homer screaming to the sky that my boy's a box or like just but everybody stepping on crusty is another just amazing like animation shot in that too like there's oh i'm sure that that or when let's see no bark is famous

who was no i would have said orlando drew that but my assistant at the time was cindy tang you know it's like they were making a big deal recently about like an all female creative cast. But I was like, you know, back then no one was saying anything about it. Do you know what I mean? I wasn't like the first woman anything. No one wrote about me. You know, I wasn't in any magazine. You know, it wasn't like a good thing back there. Back then it was it wasn't celebrated. Can I just put it that way? Yeah, no, I mean, we like unfortunately, it was only it was it wasn't celebrated can i just put it that way yeah no i mean we like unfortunately it was only what was it like six or seven years ago like that i learned that the critic episode that mcmullen directed that was written by nel scoville was like a first in

u.s animation of the first episode credited credit writer a woman credited director a woman like that had never happened before and it certainly wasn't, you know, celebrated in press releases in 1994. Like, it was written about, I think, 20 years later as a landmark moment. And then it was set against the Olympics or something? Yeah, yeah. It also got over, unfortunately, it was up against the Nancy Kerrigan, Tonya Harding Olympics. Yeah.

Yeah, no, Lauren, you know, she was a terrific director. And she, you know, she went to Harvard and she was friends with, I think, Al Jean, you know, so she knew those guys from Harvard and that's why they knew about her. And I think, you know, she was like the only one, but then she would, she'd direct an episode of this show or that show, but then she, I think she went back to doing commercials and stuff. I'm not sure and you know it's funny she and i have never talked about what it was like back then because we weren't like she was barely around like i think she had finished her show by the time i started my critic episode i would have liked to have gotten to know her more you know when we were doing that but um unfortunately i didn't but you know we're facebook were doing that. But unfortunately, I didn't. But, you know, we're Facebook friends. That counts.

Yeah. I think we should jump ahead to other episodes, other shows, rather, that you worked on. The next one I want to talk about is, or we want to talk about, rather, is Futurama. You directed great episodes like Godfellas. We just covered that on our podcast. It was a great rewatch, Less Than Hero.

We'd love to hear about your experience on Futurama and how that differed from other shows you worked on, especially The Simpsons. Well, with Futurama, it was like being a kid in a candy store because they were the mixing of the 2D and the 3D plus everything was digital. So it was really easy to, you know, make changes, you know, to get something just perfect. And so it was, yeah, it was like the head exploding kind of thing. Oh my God, I can do this. Oh my God, I can do that. You mean I can just take out that blink? You know, it was that kind of thing. It was just gave me so much more creative, you know, my boundaries got so much bigger as far as what I could do. And that was a lot of fun. It was hard work in that, you know, God, I mean, all these shows were long hours, but I remember

Futurama hours being, you know, pretty intense. But at the same time, everyone there was so talented and everyone wanted to do a really good job. And it was really great creative experience as far as like doing stuff I hadn't done before. My favorite episode of all of them was Godfellas. That was the one that like really spoke to all my childhood years of watching Star Trek and Battlestar Galactica and, you know, all that stuff that my brothers made me watch. But then, you know, it turned out I loved it too. I read The Three Stooges maybe not as much, but it was, I watched the original Star Trek series from beginning to end, like probably at least three times, if not more. Wow. But, you know, I mean, as an adult, I watched the whole series twice.

And, you know, because what you got out of it as a kid was totally different from what you got out of it as an adult. That was interesting stuff. So I got all the references and everything that they did in the show and where I didn't feel like it necessarily had the same kind of heart that The Simpsons had. It's still like as a director, it was really fun to work on because of, you know, oh, I wonder if I can do this. It presented new challenges for me. And I felt like I had kind of exhausted everything that there was to do that I could do on The Simpsons. You know what I mean?

As far as like creative challenges. So the Futurama was great in that I was able to expand more and learn more and try new things. We just did Godfellas for our podcast. And yeah, it's such a gorgeous episode. Just some of the shots of Bender floating through space alone and just like without even jokes he's saying. It's just like incredible to look at.

And also the staging of Bender having to talk to things living on his chest, basically the creative staging of all of that. Well, yeah it it definitely offered some really cool opportunities for for stuff it was remember getting into it a little bit with the producer you know because i said no the the nebulas and all that stuff they have to be 3d you know the stars they have to be 3d it can't just be like a 2d starfield it's like well why and i said because space is a character in this show you know it's a character it has to be a living breathing character it's not just background

it costs more it was it was uh but i i pushed for it and i got what i wanted and um you know and and thank you for noticing that it was worth it it. Because it was indeed a, you know, it was a functioning character in the show. You know what? I want to go back just to one more Simpsons episode because I know it's a favorite, especially Bob's. Like one of his all time favorites, the grade school confidential episode. The Skinner and Edna dating one like that. We love all your episodes, but that one has especially I think some of the best like character moments, you know, like Edna. Just Edna and Skinner have this tenderness to them that, you know, is not, it's not funny.

It's just touching in so many great scenes. I mean, I love funny moments like the pose of them being caught making out in the closet. But I also love the dance they have in the cafeteria when they're basically taking over the school at night. Did you know that they actually have like a wall sticker of them that you can put in your closet like life-size? No, no, that's so cool. Yeah, I saw it on Facebook and I shared it and people just went nuts over it. It was so funny. I want that in my closet. I have the toy that's a little closet. You can open the door and it's them inside of it.

So that pose. How cool. It was like a little Valentine's Day toy, but that pose lives on forever. But it's such a beautiful show. I mean, the writing is very good. It's a very emotional show. I believe it's also written by a woman, correct?

Yeah, Rachel Polito. That's right. That's right. But yeah, it's one of my favorites and very, very sweet. It's just it's just one of the best. Yeah, I definitely have sentimental feelings about that episode, too. I just feel I feel like every shot is just so, you know, it's just so lovely. And, you know, there were so many opportunities to, you know, how often do you really do a romance, like real romance? And, you know, and it's like with these two misfits, you know, but who you all know from elementary school. And I don't know, it was just a genius. And, you know, the whole Charlie Brown candle, you know, getting the kissing right with those, you know, with their overbites. And it just like trying to,

I don't know, but that was a labor of love for sure. You know, it is, is truly one of my favorite Simpsons episodes. I'm trying to think of all the ones, like, I really also really liked Lisa's date with density. I mean, because anything that has to do with love, you know, was, was something that I like to do because, you know, it was Simpsons' version of love. So I want to go back to Futurama because, you know, The Simpsons was a hit. It always has been a hit and popular. But when you were working on Futurama, it was a show that was in trouble with the network. They didn't like it. They kept burying it. It seemed to be the production seemed to be over. And then 18 months later, the rest of the episodes aired. I mean, i want to know what it was like being on the inside it seems like a lot of writers and

artists were upset by the treatment of the show and could you imagine it would be rebooted three times at this point i mean it is coming back i know you're aware of that but it's because i've got listeners don't know like what was your what were your thoughts being on the inside at that time well it was the first time I had been working on a show that actually got canceled. But, you know, even on The Simpsons, you know, from year to year, you always wondered, you know, especially in the beginning, because we were such an anomaly and animation shows got canceled all the time. So it was, you know, you always wondered, like, are they done now? Are they done now? You know, kind of thing, even though it was The Simpsons, and you look back on it now, like,

of course, they wouldn't have canceled it. But at the time, you always thought about it, at least I did. And then with Futurama, I was pretty shocked, but not like, oh, my God, you know, it was just, oh, well, that's disappointing. But I was on hiatus at the time. So I just kind of was like, all right, well, you know, time to start looking for another job. And I ended up moving into feature for a little for a few years. Yeah. And did that for a while. It was sort of like, and then I went back to The Simpsons and was a retake director for about four or five years. And I directed like my last show, which was the Yoko Chords, which I also really loved. It got me to branch out and start trying new things. And there's a lot of things I like about working in feature was just the freedom of drawing more and

you know, less, maybe less constricting deadlines, you know, with TV, it's like hard deadlines and uh sometimes those shows are so complicated feature it was it was it was kind of looser and and they weren't so nailed down to deadlines and stuff because there wasn't like an air date well you mentioned the the uh retake director when you were working then was that in the run-up to the movie like that uh every time we talked to people who was work working on the show then sounded like it was a madhouse like as the movie's being worked on as the full season production is happening too um that's for the people on the movie it was um i heard it was not a fun experience i think uh i think there was a lot was a lot of booze being stored in the desk. Yeah, it was, you know, The Simpsons, that's when I directed an episode because I needed

someone to direct an episode while other people were working on the movie. And it was, I just heard they had a hard time. Because you were Kirkland holding down the fort on the TV show. Well, yeah. And I was a little hesitant to do it because I really liked being a retake director. You got your hands on all the shows or a lot of them. And it was something that I was really good at. So it was kind of easy to manage my time. I didn't have to work so much overtime. But the coolest thing about it was that we could, I had a good relationship with Richard. He was the liaison.

And so we started doing couch gags. And what was cool is that we could come up with our idea for a couch gag and pitch it to them. And if we had an idea, we could expand on it. And like, you know, when all the sofas started attacking Springfield and stuff like that, that came from my office. And it was, you know, me and my assistant director. In the beginning, it was Tim Bailey, and then it was Josh Tabak. And we would just come up with stuff and we could manage both. And it was just a lot of fun. And so I was like, I don't know if I want to do a show.

But I ended up doing it. And it was also a lot of fun. And after going away and coming back, I was like so much better at it than I was before as far as like. And also because I was also the retake director, I knew I was like, okay, I can just, if that doesn't work out, I can catch it later. I was much more efficient and less of a perfectionist on that one. So, and I kind of learned where you need to put in the time and where you don't need to put in the time necessarily. Anyways, that one went much smoother and I think I only worked one weekend.

Wow. Not bad. Yeah, not bad. So, yeah, that was actually, you know, a lot of fun. I enjoyed it. So we should probably wrap up the interview by talking about one of your most recent credits, Beavis and Butthead Do the Universe. We love the movie. We're covering it this month on our on our podcast network. How did you get involved with this production? And did you have any experience with Mike Judge prior to working on this movie?

I did not. I did not at all. And I remember when Beavis and Butthead first came out, and it was so funny. And, you know, I was working on The Simpsons at the time, and I just thought it was hilarious. And, you know, I didn't care if the animation was bad or whatever. It was supposed to be bad. You know, that was part of the show. But how I got involved was, okay, during COVID, like when things kind of first shut down, what had happened is I had been working at Paramount. And then when that was done, I had also bought a house in San Diego that I needed to set up as an Airbnb. So I, you know, spent like two or three solid months working on that. And then I kind of needed a break from that. So I took you know, spent like two or three solid months working on that. And then I kind of needed a break from that. So I took, waited a few months and then finally I was like, okay, I'm,

you know, right, not long after the shutdown happened, I started telling my friends, yeah, I'm looking for a job. If you guys have anything. One of my friends was directing on Bless the Hearts. So it's hit now. So I worked on that for a while and just, you know, as a board artist. And then when that was done, I was unemployed for a while and it was COVID and I could not find anything. And I just was like, I can't believe like Netflix doesn't have anything for me, you know, but you know, people just weren't hiring in, in, in, it it just like I couldn't find a job. It was actually like 10 months. And I was like, what's wrong?

But then someone, I guess the Bless the Hearts, did they do another season? I think so. There's two. I think so. Well, I worked on the second season. So then, oh, no, Titmouse had a pilot. And they asked me to work on the pilot. I guess someone from Bless bless the hearts uh Valerie

Fletcher she she liked my work so she asked for me to work on the pilot and I was like oh yay so um I did that and then they offered me a spot on the movie and I was like okay great so then I worked on the movie and um and then I was going to go on to the series. But then one of my interviews from my job search earlier at Illumination came through. So they called me and wanted to interview me for one of their projects. And so I moved over to Illumination. And that's where I've been for the past year. But Beavis and Butthead was so much fun. and I loved working with the people at Tip House. They were terrific. I'm not going to say which ones, but I had had a string of jobs where I didn't think I was necessarily being treated very well. But at this place, they made it fun to work in animation

again. Oh, that's great. And then, yeah, they were wonderful. It was like having a very sad conversation with the producer because he was like, you know, oh, well, does it change your mind if I tell you we were going to offer you, you know, a director on the episode? And I was like, oh, but it's OK, because I mean, I absolutely love working. I love working at Illumination. They're wonderful. That's great. Extremely talented. You know, another very, very positive experience. love working working i love working at illumination they're wonderful that's great extremely talented

you know another very very positive experience i love working there did you have any particular difficulties adapting to the style of beavis and butthead because you know do the universe it's it it's so impressive that beavis and butthead still look like how they always looked but the other characters like they're they're different but they fit like it's stylistically they still fit in the in the beavis and butthead universe i think yeah no we were using the same old model packs i think um one of the things because i've moved around and done so many worked on so many different things one of my skills is that i can adapt to pretty much any style since i i wasn't like Since my training was The Simpsons, which is different from regular animation anyways,

the hardest style I had adapting to was when I was working on those Warner Brothers theatrical shorts. And that was the hardest thing to draw. And when I would go slow-mo like frame by frame through the old warner you know like warner brothers like you know sylvester and tweety and stuff i couldn't believe what they were doing it was so like experimental and and just wild and kind of like god i would have liked to worked on the stuff back then but it was it was hard to do i have to that was the biggest challenge i had was on that show, but I am very good at adapting to any style because kind of have to be, if you can only

draw the Simpsons, then you've got to work on the Simpsons. But you know, I've worked on a bunch of different things and done pilots and stuff like that. So I did not have a huge problem. And do you remember any specific parts of Do the Universe that you're really proud of you worked on? Yeah, I really liked the sequence I did when the truck with the port-a-potty on it is driving. I knew it. I knew you did that part.

I knew you did that. I knew it. That was a lot of fun. And there wasn't a whole lot written and i just did like a few different shots to kind of show how i wanted it to work and the director was like oh that's great so we went with that and then mike judge like loved it and so he just wanted more and more so that's how it ended up being that long. But yeah, that was, that was fun. And the other one, the other one that stands out to me is, um,

when, when he is having the, he, I did the fantasy with the girlfriend, you know, when they're running through the field and killing ants and, and then riding on the, on the unicorn and the beef, the butthead unicorn and all that. That was, that was nuts, but it was fun. Oh, that's awesome. It was also a sort of a coincidental reunion with you and Lou Morton, the one of the writers of the movie, because you did animate a few of his,

or sorry, you did direct a few of his Futurama episodes. Actually, we'll be talking to Lou in about 20 minutes. Yes. Oh, cool. You know, but I didn't really get to interact with the writer or Mike Judge. episodes actually we'll be talking to lou in about 20 minutes yes actually oh cool you know but i didn't really get to interact with the writer or mike judge i we just watched video of the meetings later so i didn't get to like interact with you know plus everyone's working at home right right so i didn't get to interact with with lou at all but you know please give him my regards and tell him I said hello.

But working on Beavis and Butthead was just a lot of fun. And again, I love the people at Titmouse. They're good. They're very professional, and they treat their artists great. That's great to hear. That's great to hear. It sounds like you're working on something really cool now, but you probably can't say. But we look forward to seeing it

i'm sure i can't talk about it but um but i am enjoying it put it that way that's great that's great man now we this has been so great talking to you suzy that we've we've learned so much we we have so many other questions we can ask you a whole nother hour we asked about a third of our questions yes yeah so much oh was there any is there any one last thing you want to ask me? Ooh. And this could be a very easy answer, but we noticed that you were the director of the episode Radioactive Man. And that was the first attempt at digital coloring by the show. And we just want to know what your experiences was on that one. And then eventually you went on to an all digital show a few years later.

Yeah. No, that was one of your questions that I thought was really good. I was like, wow, these guys really do their research. Thank you. I loved it. I thought it looked cool. And I also, you know, I could like, oh, that red's too bright. Can we change that? Like, of course, the color director, you know, was annoyed that I could change everything. But it must have made her job harder. I don't know how it made it harder, but I think it did. But it was a lot of fun for me. I liked it.

It was one of the few kind of action shows that they gave me. One of the things I like about Illumination is they give me like all kinds of stuff, including action. One of the things about, you know, being a girl is that they just want to give you all the emotional stuff because, you know, a lot of the male artists are kind of uncomfortable with it or they just don't know what to do. But then it starts to be like, that's all you can do. And then they start thinking that you can't do action, which is not the case. So I just want to put that out there they start thinking that you can't do action, which is not the case. So I just want to put that out there for the girls, you know, do your action sequences.

But this was one of the few action sequences they gave me. And I still remember this compliment to this day because I just thought it was like the ultimate compliment to a director. The writer turned around and looked at me and he said, I don't know if it was the writer of the show or just one of the writers. I don't remember. But after the screening, he turned around and looked at me and he said, I don't know if it was the writer of the show or just one of the writers, I don't remember. But after the screening, he turned around and looked at me and he said, that was a lot funnier

than the script we sent you. Oh, wow. Yeah, that is a while. Yeah. No, I mean- I liked that. That one I remember. Yeah, the action is great.

I mean, the acid tidal wave that smashes into Radioactive Man. Yes, the acid tidal wave. Yes, it was awesome. I loved it. That scene will live on forever, and the line, the goggles do nothing, but it wouldn't work without you seeing the acid melt everything. Reflected in his goggles.

That's such an incredible shot. Well, I'm sure it was, I don't remember which board artist was that. They were all so great on that show. Of course, Kevin O'Brien, you know, it was, I don't remember which board artist was that. They were also great on that show. You know, of course, Kevin O'Brien, you know, he's like a legend. But, you know, they had terrific Christian Roman. Like I said, I worked with them all and they're all like at Pixar now. Yeah, they had, God, they had great board artists on that show.

So I think you can credit that to the board artists. Well, thank you so much, Susie. And we will be keeping an eye out for your work in the next Illumination film. One of them. We'll keep an eye out for your name. Yeah, we can't wait. Yes. Okay, thank you so much.

It was really great talking to you. Sorry if I blabbed too much. No, no, no. That's why you're here. We're just here to listen. Yeah, thank you wow infotainment