Talking Simpsons - Talking Simpsons - The War of the Simpsons With Kole Ross

Episode Date: January 19, 2022

This week we're joined by first-time guest Kole Ross, cohost of the many great Duckfeed.tv podcasts, all to discuss the season 2 ep about when Homer goes too far. After a drunken night embarrasses Marge, the couple heads to a marriage retreat that's interrupted by a giant catfish. All that, plus the first "haw haw," the first appearance of Jailbird/Snake, the source of the Lisa drinking coffee meme, and tons more in this week's podcast! Support this podcast and get dozens of bonus episodes by visiting Patreon.com/TalkingSimpsons and becoming a patron! And please follow the official Twitter, @TalkSimpsonsPod!

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Ahoy, hoy everybody and welcome to Talking Simpsons, the podcast once called the most whimsical jape of the season. I'm your host, Vile Burlesque of Irrepressible Youth, Bob Mackie, and this is our chronological exploration of The Simpsons, who is here with me today as always. Hey, it's Henry Gilbert, and this podcast has a little dab-a-roo of creme de cassis for flavor. And who do we have on the line? On the line you have, no, not that Cole Ross. The Cole Ross on the bottom. Hmm. And this week's episode is War of the Simpsons. Oh, they're here. How does everything look?

How do I look? Do we have enough glasses? Do we have enough gag ice cubes? Homer, Homer, put a record on. What are all our friends' names again? Sheldon, go. This week's episode originally aired on May 2nd, 1991. And as always, Henry will tell us what happened on this mythical day in real world history.

Oh, boy, Bobby. The underrated Alan Rickman film, Truly, Madly, Deeply, is released in theaters. The final episode of Dallas airs, or at least the final one for about 15 years. And Amy Grant's Baby, Baby tops the Billboard charts. Oh, boy. I'm familiar with one of those things because I've gotten my hair cut before. Oh, yeah. That's a song you hear on the radio a lot.

Baby, baby, I think you got the news. Yeah, that's the one. Yeah, that's the one. Now, the Truly Madly Deeply is, well, it's a film I didn't see until after Alan Rickman's untimely passing, which made it extra interesting because it is a film about him being a ghost. It is about Juliette Binoche and him dated, and he dies young,

and she is having trouble getting over him, and he is a ghost who tries to help her get over it. And there's this great scene of him. If you just watch one scene from that film, just watch her and from that film just watch her and alan rickman singing the uh the sun ain't gonna shine anymore like it's a really great sequence i can't picture alan rickman singing it's it's good he has a nice voice in it it's i mean he's not like a professional singer i'll have to see that uh the title tells me nothing about it

yes it's not like uh bad moms or whatever. It's a more creative title. Yeah, no, you wouldn't think that it's a rom-com ghost story, but it is. One thing about Amy Grant, going back to Baby Baby, is that, so Amy Grant is a Christian pop artist,

and that was her crossover hit. Baby Baby is not about Jesus, believe it or not. It's about a baby. It's about her newborn baby. So literally singing about a baby. Stop. Wait a minute.

I'm so glad that you're mine. I see. Yeah. So I guess it's an anti-choice song. You know, when I saw that on her wiki page of like Christian, then I had to be like, all right, I have to double check if this person's anti-vax or not, because that really should be talked about when talking about,

I couldn't find that. So she seems to be a moderate Christian musician at the very least, seemingly. You also have to check and see if Christian rock is where they came from or where they went to. What they resorted to. I think Baby Baby was her main streaming of it but i think once once that hit was done then she's like okay back to christian contemporary you know gonna hang out there again and dallas soon to be spoofed on who shot mr burns part one and two i forgot the show ran this long but i guess it's only 14 seasons it It started in 78. Yeah, 14 seasons.

Yeah, in the 90s, early 90s, a show going that long felt really long. Now, no show ever ends, least of all The Simpsons. I mean, Family Guy has now had five more seasons than Dallas got. And then Dallas even got the revival, which I they they had to stop once the the main actor on it passed away you know but the Dan who puts a damper on things yeah I think people forgot about Dallas as soon as Melrose Place came out the next year yeah

well now this is sexy yeah this is the sexy rich people of the 90s we don't want to watch these 80s sexy rich people who are like evil and killing each other. Hey, Heather Locklear, she's back on this show now. I believe she started on Dallas. That's right.

Yeah, she was like a season two level up for Melrose Place, wasn't she? Oh, yeah. That show was a real stinker before Heather Locklear came along. That's like the rock joining the Fast and Furious franchise. I have to apologize to all of our Dallas heads out there. Heather Locklear was on Dynasty, a very similar show to Dallas. The other one that starts with a D. Indistinguishable.

I guess probably one is in Texas and the other isn't. But other than that, I wouldn't blame you for getting those two. I think they're both about oil magnates. Of course. But yeah, joining us today is Cole Ross of DuckFeed.TV. Cole, your first time on Talking Simpsons, but we podcasted together plenty in the past. Welcome to the show, Cole. Yes, we have.

Thank you very much for inviting me on. I love The Simpsons and I love talking about The Simpsons. What is your history with it? We have so many folks on that either watched it as a kid or in some rare cases even came to it in adulthood. No, this I'm definitely one who really fell in love with it as a kid. My dad liked the show a lot. I was not one of the kids who like this was forbidden to me. It was just we would just watch it together as a family, always made jokes about it, you know back and forth quoted lines and such just yeah from very early on just loved it and watched it per i left for college and stopped watching tv you know which uh you know coincided with the uh with the doldrums in the you know

early 2000s that's why you stopped watching tv you know what it's not even simpsons why i own it the best show is bad where where am i to go and And also, Cole is a fellow Ohioan just like me, although we are from very different parts of Ohio. It's a rich tapestry, that state. I'm from north central Ohio. You're from northeast Ohio. That's right. I think you're out of the Rust Belt. Slightly.

Just right on the edge of the lake effect snow and right on the edge of the Rust Belt. You're on the tab of the belt buckle of the rust belt that's yes yes yeah but uh just if i've always loved simpsons it's just a part of my it's a part of the way that i think and speak it's how i got exposed to all kinds of culture you know through its movie references to movie and movies and such uh probably it's uh the the this is how i learned about that's that scene an old man in the sea was by watching this episode kind of a rich uh portal to a whole bunch of stuff so it's how i learned about who's afraid of virginia wolf not a movie about virginia wolf surprisingly yeah and and cole how goes things in the Duck Feediverse these days? Things going good?

Things are going great. We are winding up. We are preparing and looking forward to the release of Elden Ring for our main premium show, Bonfireside Chat, which is about Dark Souls stuff. That's real cool. I don't know when this episode comes out, but we are getting ready this December. ready uh this december every year for the past i think seven or eight years we've done a charity dream weekend long event uh raising money for an organization in portland oregon called transactive our event is called duck stream and that's always kind of like a fun uh kind of like we do it in december it's in the at the end of the year and things like that oh that's cool just really looking forward to looking forward to doing that in addition to all the other stuff we're doing fallout 4 on watch out for fireballs we do too we do too much stuff and you and gary butterfield

who's also been on the show you both have a venture brothers podcast as well uh want to talk about that cole yeah yeah kind of uh taking a page from you guys uh it is a venture brothers recap podcast called orb it is at orb.show that is a reference to a plot line in the show that is introduced and then quickly dispatched with. But we really dig Venture Brothers and we were looking for any excuse to watch through it. And the best way to get us to revisit anything or consume or play anything is to make a show about it. That gets us to that's the only way we can give ourselves permission to to enjoy. Bob and I have similar manias. We have to turn everything into homework.

Yeah. Yeah. That's exactly what we call it. We call it homework. Yeah. We have we have the content disease. But yeah, it's orb. It's it's really good.

We have we have we have guests on occasionally. And Venture Brothers is a good show. Oh, yeah, yeah. Me and Bob have done a couple Venture Brothers episodes on our sister podcast, What a Cartoon. But now that you guys, that we know that people as good as you are working on their own podcast about Venture Brothers, we don't have to do it ourselves. It would be redundant. You both do a great job. One of the original ideas to fill that slot in our schedule

was to do a King of the Hill show because we both really like that. I think I like it a little bit more than Gary. But you guys have the talk, what a cartoon, where you've gone back to King of the Hill. He sniped you on that one, unfortunately. We'll let you guys take that one.

Hey, the more the merrier celebrating King of the Hill. People are getting in on this. They're finally hearing about the podcasting turf wars. The friendliest turf war. You stay away from my animated sitcoms. That's how Mackie gets fed. If you guys start doing one about Spider-Man,

that's when I might have to pull up stakes here. Maybe on Days of Future Cast, they've talked about Spider-man that's what i might have to to pull up uh pull up stakes here but maybe on days of future cast they've they've talked about spider-man a little bit but that's mostly x-men stuff so yes hey no there's actually there's a really good spider-man well it started as spider-man podcast that the comedian will hines does and i would tell people but it's specifically about the spider-man comic books and the original ones going like panel by panel oh wow basically it's like what we do for simpsons but the original lee and ditko spider-man comics called screw it we're just gonna talk about spider-man just to give them a free plug nice but anyway uh but this episode war of the simpsons uh i don't think it's anyone's favorites and they're very down on it on the

commentary in fact yeah i'd say mike reese is the the uh the band leader of this uh complaining chorus because he said this episode was nothing but trouble and i think from our experience listening to commentaries i think what sticks with the writers most is when there's a bad table read and a table read of course is when before the episode is you know formally recorded and storyboarded and before all the work takes place it is performed for a room full of people this one did very very poorly and they were also sued by someone who solicited a script sorry sent an unsolicited script to fox with a very similar plot in which you know homer and marge go to a marriage retreat grandpa watches the kids they

gave him money yeah to avoid anything really messy so just to shut him up well that and that's why companies say like no unsolicited scripts you got to send it through an agent because if an agent doesn't send it then there's no proof they didn't read it and it leaves them like legally viable so i can understand why but yeah you're right bob i i think you never hear them it's i feel like it's very rare to hear them say like oh at the animatic this fell apart or color this fell apart or whatever it's always table read performing in front of i think it's because like that's the one where brooks is there to watch it fail and you're more in your head about it i think and the one that we went to was a great success everyone loved it but uh apparently this we'll talk about some of the

changes they made but this was a slightly different episode with some uh characters that are no longer in it i wonder if reese kind of was dumping on that at the start too saying like oh another guy sent us a version of this so we had to pay him off was his way of saying like yeah it's such a stock idea margin marriage counseling you know that doesn't indemnify i mean indemnify is a weird thing to use on something they got sued about but like they still decided to make it. Yes. Yeah, it is. It's the end of the season, too. So which is like ideas are drying up. We're all very tired. We got to get these out the door.

We're hearing things about towards the end of the season. Things are being written very quickly. Like the the Herb Powell episode written over the course of a weekend, which is very unusual. They are just they're strapped for time. They're still new to this kind of process. And things are getting a little more harrowing towards the end of the second season yeah and then i mean plus brooks is you know he's he still is kind of involved a lot in the day-to-day on it so it sounds like he by not liking it like then they had to go through a huge pain in the butt rewrite of the whole thing with with like brooks babysitting at all he he seemed i mean he didn't say this on the commentary but uh it was implied that he seemed annoyed that he still had

to do this like please save her please give us an act three we need so we need a good speech from homer please can you give us one of your your fixer-upper uh emotional relationship speeches like yeah i i can i can see why they they were attracted to do this idea just of like the marge never tells off homer and now she's finally gonna do it and what what's too far for the for the perfect mom who pretty much every episode is just like that's nice homer yeah yeah what yes it's really funny because like yeah this is two. This is still in the heart and soul era of The Simpsons, right? Where they have no problems being sappy. Where, you know, like, yes, it's dysfunctional.

But like, I don't know, Homer hasn't gone full jerkass or whatever. It was shocking going back to this. Usually my rewatches start with season three just because that feels like it hits its stride. It was shocking because Homer's kind of in full on-ass mode at the beginning of this uh yeah to kind of set things off whereas like that is not my recollection of him at all uh like yes he was dumb and bad but he was still mr frosty chocolate milkshakes kind of at this point it's a weird to have this kind of come to jesus thing is weird it's a weird dichotomy because homer is a complete like irredeemable uh asshole in the beginning uh with how drunk he gets and how he's leering it like you know for women he's friends with and then at the end it's like

well he accidentally ended up in a boat and it's not his fault it's just like they they play it two different ways and i'm not a fan of how like the the last part of the story ends up you know and i don't think the writers are either no well and this i think you know from beginning to end this kind of sets a bad tone for homer as the guy who like well this is how homer gets away with it like it gets worse and worse or better if if you like the the comedy of it as time goes on of like the joke is homer is awful and he gets forgiven for things he shouldn't be because of really, because the show is not going to end when they divorce. But internally then the,

the character motivations usually are, well, what's Marge going to do? Leave him and start over. She doesn't want to like, so she just convinces herself to stay, which that's a pretty dark ending for characters to just like oh yeah yeah it's a i mean it's it's kind of a a dry run for uh el viaje uh misterioso you know where it's

basically kind of the same plot yeah as the chili uh festival you know yeah at the end like oh i figured out what i have to offer you complete and under dependence that's not a good thing but it's still enough yeah they play it uh a little too sincerely in this where uh with the with that episode talking about cole uh when homer has to live in the tree house the the under the undertone is very dark yeah his big speech the marge is like you need to take care of me or i'll die yeah no in secrets of a successful marriage like that totally is uh merkin just being like his uh most dark on personal relationships which he is just about everything he does and so his is like no the homer and marge just both recognize uh this is a purely codependent relationship and toxic uh but what but what are you gonna do like in this case they

try to it feels to me like also i mean to have a romantic episode about relationships and marriage written by seemingly forever bachelor john schwartzwelder who that is also a strange choice they put him on some weird scripts i don't think this was his idea i think he was assigned this but this is not a script for schwartzwelder to be writing i guess the maybe the party stuff but that's still like you know teenage not even teenage but like mtv style antics you know yeah which does not fit a guy who looks like he's a constable from 1920 yeah did you guys see it's well it's recent at the time of this recording but like the the official swartzwalder account even put out a new photo

of himself or like one we've never seen before of him him hitting a baseball like that famously they mentioned it on multiple commentaries that occasionally for parties with him and his friends he'll rent a major league baseball stadium on an off day just to play a game with his friends and so it's a picture of him what he says hitting a home run in the seattle mariners stadium like it's again he's a millionaire he can do this so now there are two photos of him online the one they're both kind of weird you know i think if you i think he was at the simpsons movie premiere i feel like there's got to be a photo from him at that too but and it's also an old photo it's from 16 years ago yes yes i mean sports well he doesn't want you knowing what he looks like now no way no no it's also you know tone

on the commentary you've got reese going like ah this is trouble i got nothing and when al gene isn't there to temper mike reese's cynicism mike reese is like just i only see my flaws and everything i do which then oppositely you have kirkland there who's being not happily reflective of like wow you know this was the end of my first season and i'd grown me and my team had grown so much from the the start of the season on dancing homer and here he has to sit next to reese going like this episode was a problem everything looks nice yeah yes just sorry you're calling me dumb for liking it and experience no yeah no i uh there's definitely

i like this one better than old money or the bart's dog gets an f like oh no i was doing that in the voice in the voice of reese i i wasn't telling you i i was not accusing you of calling me dumb i was yeah i was doing doing the scene i but i do think this is them still stuck in the zone of like the pitch begins with a standard sitcom pitch of instead of like abe makes a new friend who then passes away and he learns about life or they might lose the dog they got to take him to the to uh obedience school now it's homer and marge might get a divorce they have to go to marriage counseling which has been in every probably there's one episode of this at least in every family sitcom that goes more than two seasons i would assume they all eventually get

to this they're doing all the hits. They did the camping episode. They're just doing the stock plots, but with their own fun twist. But then later, it's like, well, we're out of those. Let's do markets and elephants. Yeah, let's get real nuts. Or Mr. Plow. They're working their way away from it, from this stuff. But it wouldn't really be until season three that they're finally free. I feel like Blood Feud finally kills the let's start with a regular sitcom type of story.

Yeah. The Simpsons will be right back. Thursday, Homer's the life of the party. I'm the funniest guy in the world. Oh, you're the king. On an all-new Simpsons. Welcome to The Break, everybody, and we hope you're enjoying this at Catfish Lake. Henry Gilbert here, and a big thank you to our guest this week, Cole Ross.

Please check out all the cool stuff he does on the DuckFeed.tv podcast network. They do a ton of cool stuff there. And it was great having Cole on for this season two classic. And if you enjoy the Talking Simpsons podcast, you should really be following everything we do at Patreon.com slash Talking Simpsons. Me and Bob do this as our full-time jobs. Thanks to the ongoing support of all the subscribers there. For just $5 a month, you get to know that me and Bob do this as our real-time jobs thanks to the ongoing support of all the subscribers there for just five dollars a month you get to know that me and bob do this as our real ass jobs and you get access to a ton

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over five hours talking about an animated feature film super duper in depth there is over three years worth of them i would dare say it is over 220 hours of exclusive podcasts in addition to all of the five dollar things please check out our ten dollar level at patreon.com slash talking simpsons but this one begins as the the simpsons are throwing a party. It is very complicated to start with. Enjoy our party snacks to set up a boy. Our party sucks, but it pays off. All right. I appreciate the effort into it. They took a bit of a walk there. Yeah, they definitely worked backwards from the final thing.

Their patented anagram humor of the early 90s. I love that in season 12 and the one with with crusty's kid where bart does one of these jokes again and after he does it he goes like yeah yeah like in kill the alligator and run i think the only funny joke is that somebody has already done it and he's disappointed there's another joke about how lame that kind of joke is i mean this is a thing that definitely i used to do like my uh family used the same christmas decorations every year and one of them is chris as magnets to say noel and my grandpa did it and then and now since he passed away i do it every time i look by it change it to leon and it's not even funny nobody laughs at it anymore but it's just that's how you knew one of us was there so

this mischief does run deep it's always fun to see twitter pictures of people at like a hobby lobby and they spell out come really big take a picture oh that's the big letters yeah i love that i hope i hope that never stops even in uh it's time uh yeah this is a very realistic setup here just like you know the the people who never host a party host a party and and going through all that i i think uh the simpsons have hosted many parties since this one but this is a first here i'm waiting to move to another place before i finally host a party i feel for all my friends who have hosted parties and had to be like the cats are in this room the kids are in this room let's try to have fun like we used to before our children existed.

Who brought the drugs? Yeah, who brought? Come on, guys. That's the nice thing to do. If you have friends who are hosting the party, the least you can do is bring some edibles for them because they can't go out and get it themselves that easily when they got kids now. Yeah. now yeah yeah and uh as homer is told that they haven't hosted a party yet homer misremembers their wedding which is not is not inaccurate yet to simpsons timeline right because it won't be until uh lisa's first word that we see there sorry no i married march i married march next year right

next year yeah so so we don't see their wedding just yet but homer is remembering a good wedding i i prefer their over the border shotgun wedding i i prefer that by the power invested in me by the nevada state gambling board is a couple of chips have a good yeah next i love that yeah uh and this is very well observed from both sides of it because you see the parents freaking out and you also i remember being a kid going like you know this looks like a grown-up fun is happening which is mysterious to me i don't fully understand it but i would like to witness it and your parents shooing you away yeah it's a world you're not privy to you want to know like what will happen in the adult world. What could this be? Yeah.

Why don't you want me around for this? And the reality is just, just company, just chatting. It's fine. You're going to be bored. You can't play a video game or watch cartoons. You're going to have to hear people talk. And then comes, I forgot this episode. This episode has a lot of firsts, but one of them I forgot was the beginning of the Homer Runner. Of him pretending he's remembering something sexual.

But actually, it's just food. And you know what? This is a far dirtier joke than I remember. I'm shocked. Yeah. Even when this last time, I didn't read the joke the way I did now, which is clearly the intent, is that Homer is like. So the joke is we see that he's holding a huge sandwich, but the mislead is that he's receiving oral sex. Yeah.

The way he's like leaning back and saying, oh, baby, we don't see anyone else in the frame, but we also don't see the bottom of his torso. Yes. Yeah. He is sat up in bed by himself, which is if he's saying like, oh, there's lots of fun you can have. You can't have any fun in bed. And he's saying, oh, yes, you can you can't have any fun in bed and he's saying oh yes you can it's not just like regular sex there's you don't see his partner in the shot and the way he slumped over definitely the you're supposed to think homer is receiving oral sex yeah which which i love the

drawing of him holding that sandwich like that's one of my favorite drawings of homer you're really gambling by bringing a sandwich with uh with any kind of sauce into bed. I mean, any food in bed. But, man, that's a dangerous game there, homie. It's the one sandwich that didn't betray him, I think. Yeah. The one giant sandwich. Well, as we see in Homer's triple bypass, he has, like, a full Thanksgiving dinner in his bed over time as it goes on uh but yeah that uh the first of many that would they

come back and forth every time it returned of homer i i think even marge got to have a good one like oh you know that when she sees the cirque du soleil style performance like that's giving me ideas for home and it's it's her cleaning stuff with her feet i think the i mean the the improved version of this joke it's a funny joke, but the exaggerated version is making bacon on the beach. And it's him. The cutaway is Homer actually making bacon on the beach. He's like, I know what you're saying.

Yeah. And yeah, so the doorbell rings. Everybody's freaking out, which is, yeah, I love the zoom in. And Homer kind of like stretches into frame where he goes like what are all our friends names again like and yeah they're setting up the novelty ice cubes again yes yeah do we have enough of them and as people come in this is also a very expensive joke that i can't think they do now with even two songs that basically they want to show that margin homer that their tastes

crystallized at a certain time so when they put on party music uh the four songs are they've got tom jones not unusual dusty springfield's the look of love casey and sunshine's bands that's the way i like it and then glenn campbell's wichita lineman so all just buried in the soundtrack they're not like they're i mean if you're listening you can hear them but it's not like well here's the joke here's what's playing let's call attention to it and and the level of audibleness it i would think it costs the same no matter how quiet it is if you're still playing it you got to pay the money for it which yeah we just did children of a lesser clod which has a joke about not playing a song but

meanwhile here they're like well yeah just four top 40 hits from this 80s or 70s right here which but it's to show that that margin homer are so corny though who would have thought that when they paid for this tom jones songs that they'd then have him in the show sing the song and he'd beat mar being held at gunpoint yes yeah yeah that that her fascination with him would become a character trait yeah uh which you know maybe tom jones was just thanking him for the paycheck for for licensing the song it seems like annette has not been inside the simpson house ever or maybe even once you're right yeah it's like uh he doesn't whatever yeah it's a cute joke of him just in front of the kind of empty living room he's trying to say a compliment but has nothing to compliment it's really strange uh to have not

t total or net it's true come in and uh got a phd in mixology um yeah which of course makes i like how uh mo gets frankie about that the start of a rivalry between Ned and Mo. So there's not a lot of Mo in this episode. Apparently there was a cut joke where Mo was going to Hibbert for advice about discolored stool. It was going to be like a gross Mo joke when they weren't really doing these yet. But apparently James R. Brooks objected

loudly at the table read. So, I mean, people remember individual jokes that are shot down at these things. You know what if i as as the detective casing the scene on this one now i wonder if the rest of the script wasn't that bad but that set brooks off so much early that he's like on the lookout like all right what else to fix in this like if you've got a if you've got a bloodied poop joke in here then we're gonna have to talk more it was the uh it was the brown m&m, then we're going to have to talk more.

It was the brown M&M. We have to go down every single line now. But yes, Cole, you're right. This is a more ribald Ned. I mean, this is the same Ned who in his rumpus room has beer on tap. So, yeah, this is a Ned who not the type of Ned who later will be downed by a white wine spritzer yeah or like

what was that the schnapps oh yeah raspberry no blackberry schnapps yeah when he called Dan Landers a boring old bitty but in this case Ned has quite a recipe for Homer. Hi, Homer.

Oh, please, come in. You are lovely today. You're looking swell. And the house, you've done whatever. Hey, anybody mind if I serve as bartender? I have a PhD in mixology. College boy. Hey, Homer, care to try some of my Flanders Planters Punch? Why not?

I'd pay for it. Hey, Flanders, next time, why don't you put a little alcohol in it? Oh, contraire, Simpson. It has three shots of rum, a jigger of bourbon, and just a little dab-a-roo of creme de cassis for flavor. Really? Well, I do have a warm sense of well-being, and I seem to be sorry in my speech.

All right, give me another. Homer, go easy on the alcohol. Remember last year at the Winfields party I have a warm sense of well-being, and I seem to be slurring my speech. You're right. Give me another. Homer, go easy on the alcohol. Remember last year at the Winfields party when you threw up in the laundry hamper? No. So, okay, this drink is insane. This drink has, I want to say, four shots. So he says three shots of rum and a jigger of bourbon. By jigger, i assume he means

like a full which is 1.5 ounce i don't know why he would differentiate between a uh a jigger and a shot yeah if he's a mixologist but uh yeah there this has an insane amount of alcohol and homer has more than one and that creme de cassis is is just a splash like or dabberoo like yeah and that has 25% alcohol I looked it up so it's Wow and you know I like going to tiki bars I probably go to one a couple times a year and they have like incredibly alcoholic drinks the most alcoholic drink they have is the zombie and typically the zombie has three ounces or two shots of rum so this is like a double zombie homer is getting what one zombie is usually enough for me in one night i believe the one i go to in vancouver they won't serve you more than one okay they're like yeah you get one of these and maybe something else and homer downs

it so fast i i think too like well one it seems crazy to me like oh the home the simpsons have like a liquor cabinet set up like no way homer homer would just buy 24 beers like this but yeah that ned makes him such a strong thing that homer drinks that fast like no no wonder he gets that drunk so quickly and this is a a moment of one of the craziest looking bit wrong neds ever yeah when he says creme de cassis and gives the like okay symbol the cell layers get all messed up and you'll see this weird disembodied head ned all over twitter and memes and everything and ned loses his nose and his uh it goes pink in the circle in his fingers so like part of his head goes away too. Yes. We get this and Lisa getting poured coffee in the same episode. Yeah.

It says a lot of classics in it. It really does. I also love Homer. It would never be this clever by the next season, but his way of acting like a put out host of just like, oh, well, you make me a drink with my alcohol. How nice of you. I paid for it. I it uh oh man so him ned serving him it uh the drink and the drink being like wildly strong or like kind of getting

up under him or sneaking up on him also kind of takes away from the uh like like the the shittiness of this a little bit like it makes him it's almost like an accident kind of. Like, yes, he could have just like not had any more once he knew it because he's incapacitated by the end of his first one. But it's like, I don't know, for some reason that muddles his culpability in this while still making him firmly in the wrong. Yeah, the show is kind of going easy on him

in that he's too stupid to realize how bad of an idea this is and ned is kind of setting up and not not in like in a sinister way ned's like i'm fun i'm gonna serve you a drink yeah but homer's having like eight shots of alcohol after the first guest arrives i i suppose a guy with a phd in mixology should know not to over serve people like then he should know that uh but i guess it's just ned being friendly uh yeah though god would be mad at him for this i think i mean again it doesn't fit but i just love i also love mo's like college boy at that phd you can't you uh ned is just joking around he doesn't

actually he just means he knows how to uh mix drinks but uh and uh apparently mike reese says he was the person who threw up in a laundry hamper at a party probably at a harvard party uh yeah and to know that it was the winfields party i have to think that's really why the winfields hate homer so much yeah if i had a party that my neighbor not even that i'm that close to but just i invited a neighbor to and he threw up in my hamper i i don't think i'd be that quick to forgive either what are these 84 year old people doing throwing a party that's true you know you were gonna wash those clothes anyway maybe it was a big retirement party you know like everybody in town or homer invited himself over or something maybe we forget they're the people on the other side of homer right? Yeah. The non-Ned side who are barely mentioned until she moves away in season four.

Yeah. Well, though, you know, listeners just heard Mrs. Winfield call Homer away or Winfield appearance. Yeah. In Bart's Dog, it's Neff. Yeah. So then there's a pan over the whole thing. And Ned is like, Ned is the life of the party.

He's starting to become the perfect man with his juggling. He's just like, yeah, Ned is taking over being the great host for Homer at this party. He's not yet the Adonis that we know Ned will be, but he's getting closer. And then also talk about good history here. Barney remembers that six episodes earlier in Principal Charming, he went on a date with Selma ever so hazily he remembers but he goes up he's talking to patty which is the funny thing that's right yeah that's true if you if you look at them closely that's why he gets amazed i mean i don't think selma wants to see him either

but he's like i remember you and but it's patty if he didn't go on a date with patty you're right uh you're right yeah i also it's it's great this time and hit me how great it is that the twins have gone to this party and are smoking indoors, just sat in the window seat away from everybody. They are not mingling. They are aggressively not participating in the party. After this joke, I forget they're there. They should remark on Homer getting wasted. I feel like we're missing a Patty and Selma barb.

Oh man, they should. I mean, especially since it's getting March to doubt the validity of her relationship with Homer. They should be there pouring fuel on that fire. Yeah, you're right. This is the perfect wedge moment. Yeah. But Barney belching through beautiful is so great. And also that his eyes are bulging out after being maced.

But he's like, that new kind of mace is really painful. I'm still trying to make fun of a small dog. He hasn't acquired his mace immunity yet. Yeah, I guess, you know, a few more years of drinking. By season four, he can't even get knocked out from having his head bashed in with the car door over and over and over again. He'll get maced again in Saturdays of Thunder

by Patty or Salma, I forget. We'll get to it. But yeah, Homer, well, he's having a good time at this party. Oh, Dr. Herbert. Enjoying your party? No, not really. Someone seems to have slipped one of those novelty ice cubes with a fake fly in my dream.

It was me! You fell for it! Homer, these novelty ice cubes are often made from highly toxic chemicals. Ironically, a real fly would have been much more sanitary. You should see the look on your face. It's priceless. Hmm. Bart, come over here.

What? You little monkey. You're a little monkey, are What? You little monkey. You're a little monkey, are you? Yes, sir. Bart, do that thing you do that's so cute. What? That thing you know how to do. What?

Go to bed. Hey, everybody. Look, I'm the funniest guy in the world. You're the king. Only Barney appreciates this drunken revelry. That's so perfect. That is such a great joke that Homer getting this drunk here and that Barney is like, yeah, this is fun. Another drunk guy.

Being drunk is fun. This isn't uncomfortable or anything. Maybe they have done this since then, but this is the longest they linger on homer being realistically drunk like he'll be drunk for a joke like him uh bart asking homer to explain women to him and then you see a ton of cans of beer on the table him talking about like you want your money come find it you baloney yeah or whatever and that's the end of the joke and sometimes he'll be drunk but then he has to stop being drunk for a scene to happen yeah but this is just him being very realistically drunk he's going through the sad drunk the happy

drunk the lustful drunk and uh i mean i grew up in a working class area and i would say most adults were at least buzzed by 5 p.m it's like rough work time to get loaded and i remember having a lot of these interactions with uh parents or friends of, just like them calling you over and you being confused, like to sing that song. You know the song? Yeah. Yeah. It really captures how it can feel as a kid when you know something's off when an adult is asking you something in these like kind of party settings. But you're not sure what you haven't yet really.

Maybe watching this show taught you as kids uh us like oh that's a drunk person this is they're acting drunk like homer was drunk there but yeah the this this also does feel a bit like a sequel to homer's night out in multiple ways because it's not just bart mixing with a sign uh just like he did there but also like this is homer getting drunk and messing things up and in act one two yeah and we went over homer's night out and i think marge was out of line in that episode because uh basically again homer was innocent in that it's like hey a stripper is here you're gonna have fun and dance and you didn't know a stripper was gonna be here just going with the flow and marge is like that's reprehensible homer how dare you the woman was doing her job marge and this one homer is much worse he's sexually harassing a neighbor yes yeah

it's pretty rough no this is uh it's funny that this used to be homer's darkest hour was this one like this is what they wanted to like well let's rock bottom for homer he gets super drunk in front of every person ruins their party and sexually harasses uh a neighbor yeah but and also i mean i really love how perfectly they capture how funny homer thinks he is like that when he comes over to hibbert he thinks hibbert is fooled hibbert in no way is fooled he's just like yes i i know it's a fake one. And then Elmer's just like, I see your face is priceless. Like, no, he's not fooled. But Elmer can't. He needs to believe he fooled him.

So he does. In a later season, like they would be playing that reaction off as a joke in and of itself, as opposed to, you know, Homer just being deluded. Because like this is before Hibbert got his characterization of laughing unnecessarily at everything right like that was once he got kind of a little bit more one-dimensional like and became his thing so his dead serious reaction they did that joke later you know like don't you normally laugh at everything oh yes yes i do uh it's it's it's weird to see this kind of like uh presented before his characterization uh kind of sets in yeah like in a few years he'd be giddy

giddily telling homer this could have killed me yes yeah uh what a great line ironically a real fly would have been much more sanitary like that's so great and yeah homer coming in with the lampshade on his head they thinks he's you know uh john belushi every the life of the party but he's he doesn't notice like yeah you knocked the beat you knocked liquor all over uh love joy everyone's uncomfortable the only the only people who are like into it are his buddies it's weird to see the bar flies at the house too yeah you know it's marge's fault for i'll blame her for inviting those bar flies or letting homer invite why don't you invite the local color uh like in 20 minutes you're gonna call them bums yeah marge will say that call them seedy low lives at that bar like i guess maybe this was part of the too far that marge knew like

she did she let homer invite them but is regretting it already and like i'll see you're with these other drunks of course you're gonna keep drinking all night though there's a quick cut to maggie tearing up money in the coat drop room which i feel like that should have been earlier in the episode i this this breaks up the homer drunkenness i thought it was necessary just like this is too dark let's let's move maggie to here oh yeah general note about marge's costume that always confused me until hearing the commentary that she's it was supposed to be colored that her shoulder to elbow is flesh colored it's supposed to be yellow that she's it was supposed to be colored that her shoulder to elbow is flesh colored it's supposed to be yellow that it's supposed to look like a sleeveless gown instead it looks like it's a an extra sleeve is sewn into it yeah it looks like a long sleeve gown but i do like her nice

dress gloves yeah very it's funny to see dress gloves on marge yeah uh but yes then homer drunkenly tells off a guy that she is not his boss i love this guy just kind of humoring him like uh don't quit yeah all right like the guy pities him so much like i can't let him even think he quit his job i better just give him what he wants and i also think when he says my wife and your wife are friends that makes me go like well who's this friend of marge's and i have have to think this cost her that friendship. We don't see him again. The secret of really why Marge doesn't have any friends is that Homer is that horrible. No one can be around.

I guess we saw that when he interrupts her book club with coming in with a skunk as well. Yeah. It's doing it again but yes uh homer gets drunker and drunker goes up to the peanut bowl asks uh and again as a little kid i don't think i understood what homer was doing here but i guess i understood the concept of breasts like i knew they were a thing in movies and And you said, not for me. Not for me. But Homer's shudder, now it reads as an orgasm to me. Boy, that's all it took. Yeah. Well, I mean, he's this.

Well, also, just like Homer, Dan is playing it so perfectly because he knows what he wants, which is to look down her dress yeah but he is struggling to pull together the words would you get the like he it's it's just so much effort for homer to even pull this off i mean homer has done uh so many terrible things this is just so specifically creepy that it feels like the worst thing he's done just on a personal level to take advantage of the trust of

Maude in this moment at the very least like Maude is hostile to him for the rest of her life yeah I guess you know another first for this episode of first this is i don't think uh well you know what homer did say that maude's butt is higher than my wife's butt when describing

her so i guess that is the first time homer indicates that he looks at maude sexually which is the first episode mod is it yeah yeah yes it's uh the entire party falls apart and then homer has embarrassed marge could you give me a handful of peanuts mod oh sure not those peanuts the ones at the bottom oh okay Oh, thanks for inviting me. I had a wonderful time. I must apologize for my husband. If you want him to live through the night, I suggest you roll him onto his stomach.

Thank you, I will, Dr. Hembert. Thanks for coming. Remember, I said if. I have never been so embarrassed in my life why what'd you do oh awful man that's let his last straw i don't play march for finally giving him the the business in the morning i think that was the himbert's first hint of him being a bad doctor secretly he's like well here's how to kill your husband yes yeah that's that's so great like remember i said if is just this clarification like that i this could be a suggestion on how to save his life or how to end it but then it'll look like

an accident he just a passed out and choked on his own vomit you know plausible deniability all around yeah i i mean now i think as a kid i thought like oh this i thought it was funny as an adult now if i think about going to a grown-up party with other adults and one of the host is just like immobile immobile on the ground in a drunken stupor oh uh there was a party that i went to uh i was i think i was 30 or maybe around that point and it was we were all too old to be drinking that much but uh the the partner of somebody who was throwing the party he was already like just blitz by the time we got there and he just was like in bed about half an hour after the party began and it was not fun it was just like i just kept thinking about like that's

very sad oh that is sad man you're just watching somebody hurt themselves yeah god at least the person went to their bedroom at least they did that and yeah like laying on the on the front i think the the partner in question uh like made them go to the bedroom just like just hide in here you're gonna pass out anyways that sounds like a process had already been established at that point like that's yeah i you know i've i've definitely been at parties where uh like over 30 parties where one person drank more than other people at it but not to the extent that they are falling down drunk certainly i uh i can think of people who like pre-gamed a little too hard perhaps yeah i i feel like i don't know you don't have to pre-game that much you did there's there's

copious drinks at this party. But I always took it as the fact that Homer is still on his back in the next scene when he wakes up shows that Marge wanted to give it a shot. She's like, you know what? Maybe. Let's try. Spin the dice. Let your body.

Spin the dice. Spin the wheel. Let your body decide. Spin some dice, too. I didn't put that together. She tried to kill her husband. You know, to give her the benefit of the doubt together she tried to kill her husband you know uh to give her the benefit of the doubt she tries to pick him up and he literally can't be movies too heavy

and she goes like uh enough of this like so uh she gave it a shot and though if she had turned him she just saved their cat's life yeah or made at least the cat's life a little more comfortable uh that's you know that is a moment of too far in for someone's addiction in the sopranos where they uh fall asleep on a pet and kill right so i i don't want to spoil too much that it's not played for laughs there but i again the outline of filth under homer as he's lifted up to is pretty great i mean like you you learn a lot about what your limits are through drinking and of course when you're doing it for the first time for the couple of years you're just like well yeah naturally you're just miserably hung over every time you drink right it's like

well no you have to learn that's not always the point yeah but there is there are those moments that that kind of teach you like i should not do this as much or i should do this less where it's like you start to remember like did i spill something? Did I say something? It's coming back to you as the hangover continues. What happened? And it's not a good feeling. No. For Homer-

I'm going to do this 11 more times. Yes. For Homer being told he doesn't remember throwing up in a laundry hamper, that's fine for him. He's like, no, I don't remember it. So it must not have happened. I think you're misremembering, Marge. I still, like i like to drink i'm a drinker uh i like to i love beer i love craft beer i love good whiskey but i i'm much more moderate now and i think the last

time i was actually like blackout drunk was a decade ago oh it's been i if i ever was it was one time i it was literally my 30th birthday party, and I was like, well, I can absolutely never do this again. I want to live. Bob has been my Ned in a way of helping me level up my drinking game. I didn't even have whiskey around the house too much, but Bob got me for my birthday a very nice Suntory whiskey and a thing for for measuring jiggers of uh of the whiskey with even yeah that was very good influence yeah yeah oh boy free pours will get you no i yeah i pretty much just have one a little glass and then call it a night i like two nights a week but hey you listeners you're not my doctor i don't have to explain myself to you uh so after homer is awoken there's then a very quick joke i have the clip for too just because

i this is a very funny exchange to me come here where are we going i want to make sure the kids don't hear when i was young i always hated knowing my parents were fighting. They're fighting in the car again. That music always sends a chill down my spine. That is like the we're trying to be inconspicuous music. It was also played in Simpson and Delilah when the insurance guy wants to sell him the insurance under the table. I'm sorry, the box and ill under the table. Yeah, that's the that's the call back there. You're right uh i just i just love that this any joke about everybody is in denial together and it's just this accepted denial like march march thinks he's fooling the kids but the kids let her think that she's fooling

them but they're actually deeply disturbed by it like that's such a good line yeah just just traumatizing them in a different way like oh gosh there's another there's a new trigger here just anytime they they mess with that like oh so what's your new name gonna be steve bennett every time i go out of my my ball of twine in the in the attic exactly yeah it's like anything where the kids are specifically aware of how bad their parents' relationship is. That is like the exact right kind of dark for me. By season six, they just go like, seriously, Homer, don't even try. Like, we don't want you to try.

It's scary. Half-assed over-parenting. Then comes one of the most, like, incredible animation things they pulled off in the series to this point yeah we have two uh cutaway gags and uh they were having fun with this they're just like we're getting bored with these stock ideas what if we had a fun fantasy man this one asking homer if he remembers it he then imagines it in like they completely change art styles like everything like this is almost like a treehouse actually even more ambitious than a treehouse scene because it changes fully the art style

and coloring of of it to look like an al hirschfeld style drawing which david silverman loves al hirschfeld and yeah a lot of work on it but he got a hirschfeld of himself before hirschfeld died actually yeah oh yeah he it was commissioned he didn't like get it as a gift and I like Hirschfeld because he hides a little Nina in all of his drawings it's the sweetest thing yeah now that the secret I never knew until uh until a Nina pointed this out to me that that in uh the drawing of Burns done Hirschfeld style has a Nina written into Burns's hair as silver been going all the way with the herschfeld parody oh man so yeah that homer imagines himself as a member of the

algonquin round table and uh they're all accurately rendered like mike reese can identify all of them because he went to harvard mr harvard showing all the guys yeah i just love the just i pronounce the most whimsical jape of the season oh so good and yeah then man how incredibly ambitious i i think kirkland said it's the longest pan in his entire career 30 feet long that the camera like the animation camera had to go over yeah whenever you see a pan in these days uh the art has to be that big there's nothing digital to stitch it together and not only is it a long pan but it also is over characters that transition from looking like the herschfeld drawings to the springfieldians except they have like harder black outlines around them because it's like homer's memories and an out transition this

is so good it's gorgeous looking and uh i love yeah we get to see the end of the sexual harassment scene that we didn't see of when maude realizes what yeah it seems that makes it even darker because if maude didn't recognize it it's already bad in homer's part but when she realizes that oh homer's objectifying me in this way and i'm disgusted like yeah that's way heavier uh oh and to see it from first person in homer's view as well you feel you feel everybody glaring at him uh and then marge has a great speech of just saying like i like to think that i'm a patient tolerant woman and there was no line you could cross that can make me stop loving you but last night you didn't just cross that line you threw up on it meaning homer vomited at some oh i'm sure he did yeah oh yeah at that point

once the vomit's on the floor that's you know maybe that just happened before everybody left that's when homer puked and everybody's like all right but it's time to go now maybe he was under him when he fell over oh god yuck it's even more disgusting well homer certainly must smell very bad when he was talking to him here and uh and great drawings of homer is like both hungover and guilty as marge is talking to him about this. Yeah. And so Marge tells Homer that she's going to go to church by herself, that he has to stay to apologize to Bart. I like to think that I'm a patient, tolerant woman and that there was no line you could cross that could make me stop loving you.

But last night you didn't just cross that line. You threw up on it. I'm sorry, honey. Can't we just forget it and go to church? I'm going to church alone today. You're going to stay here and explain to Bart why you scarred him for life. No, I didn't. I...

Oh, you mean inside, don't you? How about last night? You might have noticed Daddy acting a little strange, and you probably don't understand why. I understand why. You were wasting... I admit admit it i didn't know when to say when i'm sorry it happened and i just hope you didn't lose a lot of respect for me dad i have as much respect for you as i ever did or ever will oh that's that's great that homer doesn't understand the insult bart just gave in there and so but uh but also

like how offended homer is like he he thinks martin's saying homer bart was literally scarred given a scar by home that's how drunk he was he scarred his boy uh which uh which homer then is like he's not that upset that he's like oh you mean inside like he's not that sad about that no he should apologize to lisa tuna i guess was the only one who was downstairs to witness it i i can't remember i they they really just address like homer you just made you made a ass out of yourself but like underlining that should be you sexually harassed maude flanders but it was a less it was a less woke time, you know? Yeah. It's a joke that Maude is hurt by it, but yeah, I feel like,

especially since in Homer's Night Out, Marge really wants Homer to teach Bart to respect women. I feel like this is another time for that to be like, hey, teach Bart that you shouldn't ogle women like this at a party. Look them in the eye when you're talking to them perhaps don't create scenarios that make their breasts more visible yes yeah uh but but but by this point homer isn't bart's hero even a little bit and bart is so

grown up that he knows like well yeah you were drunk i i'm i i'm not a fool uh but yes so then marge goes to the church and uh just like in no disgrace like home there's a lot of freaks in uh in this that i think we're at the party hitler's in church yeah boy grady don't like seeing that hitler there he really doesn't and i like i like hearing reverend lovejoy go through as many corny pamphlets of satan's boners good grief more satan's boners i can't imagine being as hungover as homer is and also being in my late 30s and then going to church oh yeah i would probably i would probably try to drown myself in the toilet or something just bring death to me please you you know if you could stand up for the shower about halfway through it

you would just start sitting down in the shower you're like i'm i'm this is a bath now and i'm not gonna move from this for at least two hours i mean homer had at least eight shots and then whatever happened later yeah yeah yeah he should be pretty messed up uh on this but he you know that it just shows some determination he wanted to clean up for marge but yeah uh so homer's squeaky shoes are called out by lovejoy and he has to he finds the road to sit in with marge but he's separated by the freakish twins who were last seen in no disgrace like home uh which was about marge getting drunk and embarrassing homer which all wrong that yeah yeah i guess actually in that they gave marge the excuse too that she didn't know how strong the drink was yeah well it was it's punch too it's it's that punch that's how

they should understand yeah she's been on the other side of it. Where's your compassion, Marge? This is what happens to boomers who only drink trash beer their entire lives. If they have anything stronger, they turn into maniacs or die. It's true. If it's not your regular Michelob. Oh, sorry. It's on fire. Yeah.

I mean, my parents, like a lot of boomers in the midwest and all across the country they just drink like miller lights so when my stepdad got like a six pack of ipas for the first time he's like well yeah i'll have a bunch of these in one night and he got incredibly sick because like no this has like three times the alcohol as a miller light you can't drink this that much uh oh gosh just taking my parents to uh uh just like breweries down when i live down in cincinnati and just you know just showing up and then like okay what do you want to drink what do you have that's most like bud light just keep them a lager you know hey now that you mentioned cincinnati uh you know what's your

opinion on that skyline chili that we talked so much about in an episode about a year ago now? Yeah, yeah. You guys went to the table read for the Cincinnati episode. Is that the one you went to? Yes, we did. You pro or negative the Skyline Chili? I don't like Skyline Chili. I'm not from Cincinnati.

I just I live there for about 12 years. It's just brown sauce. It's just brown sauce. It's just, it's just brown meat sauce. It is up here. We would call it Coney sauce. That was the thing. Like you would not eat this by itself or you don't care about the,

the, the spaghetti. It is meant to go on top of another meat. So I, I do not, I, I'm not in favor of the, of the,

of the skyline of the Cincinnati style chili. If you bury it in enough cheese, it must be good enough. Well, you can eat like a spare tire in that case. Sure. Yeah, yeah. Spare tire. So, yes, as they learn about the marriage retreat, Homer pretends to be interested.

Mrs. Lovejoy and myself will be holding our third annual marriage retreat next weekend at Catfish Lake. It's psychological counseling for couples whose marriages are hanging by a thread or those just in need of a tune-up. Now, if you wish to participate, please sign up in the lobby after the service is over.

Will the Simpsons be attending our little retreat? Oh, well, it's very tempting really a wonderful idea bud what are you doing are you insane we'll be there it uh yeah just like uh Hibbert they have not sold out Lovejoy's character where he's he cares yeah he's he's like engaged i back the jokes about him or him being out of touch like he's talking about you can read like bible bafflers in the lobby or satan's boners yeah yeah which like nobody's used boners in the context he's using it there in like

30 years yeah that one that one batman comic yeah he's probably had that pamphlet there since the Batman comic. I love every page of the Joker talking about boners. But it's funny because they took what would eventually be Flanders' character and then they just moved it over to Lovejoy. Yeah. They prefer the jokes with Love joy that he doesn't care yeah if we it would be repetitive if love joy and ned were the same pious dude you know like yeah love joy doesn't care and also he wants you to be bored yes like he's excited about torturing you with boredom he's bored by it he wants you to be bored too i i also love i love

the reaction shots of marge when it's hanging by a thread because that's what she believes and then the in need of a tune-up and homer's very helpful no it's just in need of a tune-up yeah uh and also great animation of like when homer is acting interested like oh sounds like a wonderful idea and he's like pointing his finger up and then just runs over to mars like no what are you doing he loses his cool instantly yeah just wrestle the pen away from her so then act two begins uh and as reese points out on the commentary homer has never given a shit about fishing before and now he's like mr fisherman guy i'll cop to that at least in one short he takes part fishing with him so it's not that he never went fishing before but it's certainly not what you think of with homer her and they also got this

idea from an andy griffith show episode uh so i looked it up because uh they mentioned we saw it on tv and it seemed like a good idea for a b plot or whatever but uh it's the season seven episode big fish in a small town and here's a summary of it from the wiki the andy griffith wiki so people that care wrote this they said quote fishing season begins and the town sportsmen are all eager for a chance to catch old sam the biggest fish in the lake howard a non-fisherman tags along and antagonizes everybody by catching him so they got the idea from that it's a different story but it's like what if there was a legendary fish and homer caught it or wanted to catch it and there's

some weirdos at the worm store that's fine i should have realized something this you know down to earth of homer becoming like yeah i'm the regular dad who likes fishing that it had to be from something like andy griffith yeah yeah that's that's so outmoded like i grew up in a house with a dad with a dad who fish like fishing was weirdly like it looms large in my childhood and i have not touched a rod since i was like 13 you know so i've never done it so it's just weird to go back and like oh yeah that's like a thing that dads did that's kind of what they're making a joke about here. My dad went fishing, you know, once a year, maybe like 10 times. But he was not a big fisherman.

I think he got more into golfing. I think, you know, it's getting out on that water. I think that was a longer drive for him than the golf was. All that rowing. Yeah. My dad had a boat where we would go out on like lake erie and stuff yeah i have some more time fishing and breath of fire games than i have oh yeah stardew valley i've logged i don't know 50 hours of fishing in that game oh yeah i love video game fishing me too

anytime a video game's got a fishing mechanic i'm like oh boy more of this when you can turn a sport into stopping a meter yeah that's the best version of it. Same with golf. Exactly, yeah. I do like his homers packing his thing too. The detail I had missed before is that Homer has a Duff branded tote bag, which seems to me like he earned it with Duff points

or it was like a free giveaway. So that's what he's using for his fishing tackle. I love that too. it's so strange though because the the the problem is not homer our marriage is in trouble the problem is you have an alcohol problem yes you're an addict yes that the the issue yeah i know that it's it's uh i guess you know that's what christianity is leading him to the like no it's it's about talking about your marriage. It's like the only issue that they have here is not that Homer didn't even listen to her because there wasn't like a scene of Marge telling Homer, she tells him once, you shouldn't

drink that much. But other than that, it's just her grumbling in the background. So yeah, you're right, Bob. The issue is Homer got drunk and embarrassed her. Let's work on that and fix your drinking. And it wasn't even a one-time thing that he was kind of tricked into. The scene is kind of like where he's like,

he doesn't realize there's a lot in it, but then when he has one, he's so drunk he wants more. We hear about the other party he threw up at. So it's a recurring issue in their lives. You're right, Bob. It's like there's an acute problem and a chronic problem. The acute problem is we got to get you off the sauce the chronic problem is the selfishness and like maybe put out the fire before

you fix the before you fix the floor joists you know but hey you know this is a maybe this is a realistic version of denial in a marriage and how it works you know that they have to they have to be in this deep of denial they're like no no no, no, no. We got to just deal with anything but drinking. There is a joke later that's like, no, you need a solid weekend to fix your marriage. That's good, too. So then comes another, I guess it's sort of a runner. I feel like it happened at least one more time of the implication that Bart, as a baby, had like omen level demonic abilities and that he could drive a car and

seemingly run over that. It feels like they cut away before she is run down. And it took her like, well, that was like, I guess, nine years ago. And she has recovered physically since then. But do you think Marge would remember like, oh, yeah, that's a babysitter who got run over by my car on the front lawn or whatever. I also love the design in the flashback of Bart with his baby hair. Usually they draw him with just, you know, he just has fewer points on his hair, but

it's the baby hair. But this time it's like messy baby hair. It's much more realistic. It's a third cutaway joke. We had the sandwich in bed. We had the round table and we have this. They're really having fun before this becomes a family guys thing that's true yeah in about a decade they're they're fine this is all about they were given this you know kind of old school story like well

how do we shake this up well you know in a cartoon you can cut to anything and all somebody has to do is draw it and those guys they can draw anything yeah let's just take it away but yeah she runs off screaming and then uh another great bit of homer just then doing bad acting of like oh well i guess we can't go but instead they turn into grandpa what grandpa could you do something i can dress myself well i was wondering do you think you could babysit the kids this weekend? I wouldn't ask, except I'm desperate. Oh, sure. Last resort. Old Grandpa the Feeb. The guy who can't be counted up

for nothing, no-how, gag-nabbit. Everyone against me. I'll do it. Marge just putting a few last things in the truck. Now, if Maggie runs a fever, you call this number. If she sticks her finger in an electrical socket, call this number.

And if she drinks pine cleanser, call this. Just give me the list. I can read. All right, all right. Goodbye, children. And behave yourselves. Mm. Mm.

Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Call this number if Grandpa falls in the bathtub. I heard that.

Goodbye. Bye, Dad. Grandpa, Mom was in such a hurry, she forgot to give you this. It's a list of the things Lisa and I can and can't do. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. You're allowed to smoke cigars. And then we see it later.

Boy, I love all the scenes of Bart smoking a cigar which they would never do again no i honestly i'm shocked at the height of bart mania they got away with it then like yeah and they're like these giant stogies too yeah he's smoked i'm like he's used to it like the first time i smoked a cigar like 17 i threw up i i feel like if they were cigarettes a kid might try it and they would still cough but maybe they would smoke more if you're a little kid you try a cigar you will just projectile vomit yeah yeah no no question maybe that's how they got away with it i i just uh yeah there's so so many funny little things here the way the the way abe wakes up like what the hell what like that's so funny looking uh and then also that he has this whole speech about how like

oh you never would ask me unless it was last resort and then just accepting it yeah yeah uh also a good bit where bart says i'm almost 10 and a half i and and still he's gonna slap lisa right in front of marge like the back of me hands though then i will say as a little kid it bugged me that then later Bart would turn 10 in another episode. I was like, wait, no, he's almost 10 and a half. I heard him say it. Wait a minute.

But and also great little bit Marge. I forget that Marge takes that note for grandpa. Oh, out of her hair. Out of her hair. Yeah. Her hair still could magically hold anything at this point bart's gambit really works pretty well here on him and we even just like say oh mom was in such a hurry she forgot to give you this he did not have to do the opposite of what bart says card

like homer does they hadn't learned yet they hadn't learned yet abe reveals later he's craftier than they think but he is trusting them here isn't he like he does believe he lets them do everything as long as they clean up that's like yeah it's a weird uh i don't know it's a weird revenge plot dementia you can have an all ice cream weekend as long as as long as nobody catches sure so marge and homer are driving up uh as kirkland mentions he on the commentary he grew up in the Adirondacks or visited it in his childhood. So he wanted it to look like, you know, a remote up in the mountains kind of fishing

village, which I mean, it looks really nice. I would like to go on a vacation there. I don't know if I'd actually go fishing, but at the very least, I would listen to podcasts while looking at that water. And that's basically the same. On a trip with my mom and stepdad, it was a nice one that we stayed at this place in separate rooms of this little old school motor lodge that was on the river. It was like you could go out on the deck and just be standing by.

Well, a river is a little too strong. A big but it looked real it was real nice it was it was up in the uh near the oregon border with with california but yes uh this is when homer learns about catfish lake where you headed catfish lake oh after general sherman i uh well wait a minute wait a minute who's general sherman he's only the biggest catfish in these parts oh yeah they say he Catfish Lake? Oh, after General Sherman, are you? Wait a minute. Who's General Sherman? He's only the biggest catfish in these parts. Oh, yeah? They say he weighs upwards of 500 pounds. Who says that?

They do. Oh. Yeah, that there's the only known picture of the General. Can't see what he is exactly. He's freakishly big, though. Gentlemen, I am going to catch General Sherman. After the supermarket, we'll go to the video store, grab a Krusty Burger, and head for the arcade. Bart, Grandpa's a kindly old man who trusts us.

Are you sure it's right to take advantage of him? Lise, in these crazy, topsy-turvy times, who's to say what's right or wrong? But right now, my gut's telling me bleed gramps dry okay so i gotta know there if you hear bart definitely is saying bleed gramps to dry at a different recording space than the previous lines he said and i think if you look at bart's mouth movements there he makes an ooh mouth with his thing i think the original line was but my gut says screw him i think that's what bart said and they had to change it that's what i think you can't

be smoking and say screw him yeah it just uh the the the biggest problem any grown-up that i knew had with uh with with the simpsons was how disrespectful bart was even for the show that would have been too much i i like bart setting it up with saying like uh like how a political speech goes like in these topsy-turvy times who's to say what's right or wrong you know it's all relative i don't have a lot to say about uh actual General Sherman, but I did find out his nickname was Cump. Cump? C-U-M-P. Cump.

I see. All right. Well, I mean, well. He's just some dead guy. Who cares? Good for him. You know, well, hey, sounds like you didn't grow up in Atlanta. But General Sherman is known as the guy who burned it down in Atlantaanta uh though it definitely at some civil war sites he's treated

as not a hero which obviously if you like love old atlanta perhaps so but it's like well he was trying to you know he did he was assigned to defeat the insurrectionists like it kind of was his job uh to destroy the the train tracks and also to know, end slavery was kind of his plan. But yeah, and General Sherman was was not liked in the in the Atlanta area. I grew up in the predominantly white one. Does that surprise you? No one even whispered the word cump but so i but that's part of the joke too calling him general sherman because in an andy griffith style show well they called him carl but

in a southern town they would call him you know big big stonewall or big robert e lee a confederate general as a mark of pride like oh this big powerful fish to call the big powerful fish like northerners don't give a shit about general sherman the only people who would name something after general sherman are southerners who would hate him disparage him yes yes and he's from ohio too from lancaster ohio how do you like that oh yeah over an amish country yeah i also like when homer decides he's going to catch his fish even though these guys at the gas station must have heard people say this over and over again they're so impressed like oh my he's gonna do it wow they got they gotta treat the tourists good it's their only it's it's their

economy you know they gotta encourage the out-of-towners i love i love these swartz weldery gallery of old men to whittling who just are like the l the very old men who hang out at the bait shop that's great uh and yes the photo of sherman is supposed to look like the classic uh photo of lalachness monster 500 pounds is a ridiculous size for a fish like that for a catfish for a bottom feeder yeah i which by the way again i love catfish it's some of my favorite fish to eat it's is it a low class fish maybe but i love that about it and oh yeah 500 pounds like a marlin is uh it's it's 1400 and that's like it takes a whole industrial ship to

bring that in right yeah uh yeah homer actually to to move that fish later is an incredible strength on his part. Was he lifting it up? Yeah, he has to. I mean, gravity does a lot of the work when he gets him over the boat, but he does have to get him over the side to fall back in. Then also the bit that Marge doesn't know. On the commentary, Groening actually kind of takes Homer's side. He's just like,

March that lie. Let him go fishing in the morning. But Homer's lying to her this whole time. Yeah. Yeah. If he wants to go fishing, talk it through with her. But if you're going to keep sneaking it by her this entire time,

you are in the wrong. She's right. Yeah. It's mens rea. It's not, it's not knowledge of wrongdoing so they arrive in the marriage retreat we see who's there uh there's three couples lovejoy will call that their best uh showing it for her uh there were going to be different couples there

apparently so we were going to meet uh ken krabappel because yes there is a mrs krabappel implying there should be a mr krabappel we'll hear the story of what happened to him in an episode he's not on screen though um but yeah he was supposed to be there and we were supposed to have mr burns there with his asian mail order bride and i think the issue with that was um people at the table read thought she was a sex worker and they were confused or maybe thought like oh burns hired a prost. And that's kind of like a little too crass for our show. Or just like this is like not the kind of humor we want to do. And it sounded like the way they wrote Ken Krabappel was that he was like both a hick and Dean Martin. Like it sounded very confused how Reese described him.

Well, he was written to be like a Dean Martin style character. But whoever played him at the table read decided to play him as like a southern hick. So there was a miscommunication there. And that could kill like whoever played him at the table read decided to play him as like a southern hick oh so there was a miscommunication there and that could kill like an entire bit at a table read or or turn up who indian sometimes yes yeah but uh yeah you know it's uh nuts to think how long they resisted ever showing ken krabappel like or just even they just let you know that edna is a sad woman who lost uh whose husband left her for a younger woman but yes as they arrive we hear this i love this great exchange too homer is too clever for it but i do love it of him lovejoy saying we must bait our hooks with honesty that

way a happy marriage will be the one that got away number says i see i also understand bowling expressions like homer i guess what homer is saying like i don't like being talked down to with a with a fishing expression i understand also like uh don't mention fishing i'm very bitter about not being able to do it oh yes yeah yeah he's just thinking about how much he wants to go bowling uh when if he yeah but the you know it would be quite a different history for old mr Burns if they'd had one episode roll the ball of him like having a mail order bride. Yeah. Yeah.

It would be a long time before they'd actually get Burns a lot. Like he would date Marge's mom and then he would have the woman that Homer would chaperone him on dates with as well. But yes, we then get an appearance appearance basically a little one-act play right here the the broken couple in a toxic marriage from uh who's afraid of it's great just dan and julie uh together just going back and forth oh man this whole bit is so good yeah that they like their back and forth is so funny playing these characters this shows that julie cavner can play non-marge bouvier characters like and she's good at it and it's so funny playing these characters. This shows that Julie Kavner can play non-Marge Bouvier characters like, and she's good at it.

And it's so fun. Her and Dan working off of each other here. And then Kirkland and his team animated it. Great. Like the posing's great. Like the timing. Here's your crown, your majesty.

Putting the crown on her head. Yeah. And, and he also reveals that future Simpsons director, Susie Dieter is the design of the hair. Like, she had hair like Gloria's hair for this scene. And she did the layout on the scene, too. But yes, John and Gloria have a breakthrough.

Tell us a little bit about why they're here. John, Gloria? My name's Gloria. I'm here because Johnny Boy hasn't been able to cut it man-wise for some time. Not that I'd want his odor of gin and sour defeat pressed against me. That's enough, Gloria. Thank you, Gloria. John, why don't you tell us a little about why you're here?

She never cooks. She keeps a filthy house and she talks profanely. She's the queen of the harpies. No, I'm not. Queen of the harpies. No, I'm not. Here's your crown, your majesty Get away from me

Queen of the hoppies You're in the right place First, I want you to look into each other's eyes Your eyes I've forgotten how beautiful they are Let's never fight again We were fools to argue Let's not talk about that

Let's not talk at all Remember my saving your lives and bringing you happiness when we pass the collection plate next week never fight again we were fools to argue let's not talk about that let's not talk at all remember by saving your lives and bringing you happiness when we pass the collection plate next week just looking in her eyes just unlocked it all that's that's beautiful just that simple uh that that was and the the implication that the couple in who's afraid of virginia wolf that that would have solved everything if they had done that that movie is great it's a filmed play honestly it's just a couple a drunken couple having a very uncomfortable conversation in front of a younger couple yes and uh I have to tell the anecdote again in that we were assigned different authors in my senior year of high school somebody that I knew got

Virginia Woolf so their uh their cheat was like I'm going to write who's afraid of Virginia Woolf and I'm going to write a report about her. And I think he was under the delusion that the movie was about the person Virginia Woolf, and the teacher made fun of him in class for it. It's like, you not only rented a movie instead of reading a book, this has nothing to do with Virginia Woolf. And if you watch this movie you'd know that like yeah that's so oh man you know that i i feel a little bad for a student getting clowned on by a teacher in class but when he set up the teacher that perfectly it's hard to the internet existed he could have said just typed it in there was no wikipedia but still yeah altavista would at least tell you something about

movie with virginiaf in it. And yeah, we actually talked a lot about a scenario like that in our Duckman What a Cartoon. Right. I've been telling the same stories over and over for the past 10 years. But yes, Lovejoy then turns to Ned and just hearing that like the ned and maude are perfect they only are just mad about like underlining like that they're not using each other's bibles correctly they're not sharing bibles yeah they're finding more fun with ned about how like uh finicky can be like in this scene he's different than he was as a mixologist almost yeah this is a very different ned than party ned i agree uh and i

also oh i just love homer it's a good thing you don't keep guns in the house that's but too clever for him but a funny line as uh homer and marge get set up homer is asked to list marge's faults which he says all he can say is like ah she's perfect but it can be a little annoying at times that how perfect she is and the joke is just how very long Marge's list is. But yeah, if you can list that many things, you know, you're supposed to think divorce is an option at that point.

It's never been easier. Yes. Yeah. Well, even this, this episode is named after a divorce comedy movie, War of the Roses, which James O. Brooks is Gracie films was a producer uh or the production company for unky herb himself directed it that's

right yeah uh but as marge begins her list about how self-centered homer is that blowing your nose in the towel and putting it back that's pretty bad yeah that's pretty bad so then we get a return or an upping of you know when crusty gets busted we hear about double chocolate now we hear about chocolate chocolate chocolate chocolate chip ice cream which back in 1991 you could smoke cigars in a grocery store and i'm sure most of these flavors are real now. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Sure. I mean, far beyond that. Like, yeah. Chocolate inflation has taken root.

Everything is packed. Like, yeah, just if you buy ice cream that's just like just chocolate, it seems very boring. Like, you can't get that from a fancy company. Special order it. And, you know, I noticed one other layer to this, too, for the first time. When they're buying all the stuff, Abe asks, you know, did your mom really write this shopping list? And Lisa says, oh, well, how can you doubt me? You can see what's on the list that Lisa has. And it's, you know, carrots and bread and all that.

It's a normal shopping list. So they did actually bring the right shopping list. They're just lying about what's on it and uh and bart there's some funny smoking acting with bart he really is moving like a an old-timey guy with a cigar he's real george burns with this thing oh yeah yeah and i'm sad we don't get to see this luau that we missed because marge is going through her laundry list of complaints but it's fun to hear julie making the marge voice even more hoarse yes oh god and her her wilted hair too yeah everybody's sunken down on their chair but you know what i think i guess lovejoy is giving marge space to say everything but as the guy in charge

of it he should just go like after an hour of complaints you just go like you know what marge i think we do get it but we really need to move on to other people i like how she ends it with that's all i can think of right now it ends with oh he kicks me in his sleep because like that's not like that's not under his control but also yeah i could see being angry well especially if you're not cutting your toenails and kicking you in your sleep. Like, that's slashing her up there, too. Here's the end of Marge's complaint list. He drinks out of the carton.

He never changes the baby. When he goes to sleep, he makes chewing noises. And when he wakes up, he makes honking noises. Oh, and he scratches himself with his keys i guess that's it no no wait he kicks me in his sleep and his toenails are too long and yellow that's all i can think of right now i guess you're all tired and i want to thank you for letting me get some things off my chest well we've missed luau. Let's say we call it a night. I can't avenge my partner's death with this pea shooter.

I don't want to hear it, McBain. That cannon of yours is against regulations. In this department, we go by the book. By book. All right, McBain! You know, Kev, it's getting pretty late. Yeah, you should go to bed, Grandpa. We've had a big day.

It's no use kidding myself. You know, kids, it's getting pretty late. Yeah, you should go to bed, Grandpa. We've had a big day. No, you white-eyed little martyr. It's no use kidding myself. I'm having an ethical crisis. So this McBain scene is before he kills his chief, which is what we see in The Way We Was. Right. But it happens after Scoey dies, which we won't see until Saturdays of Thunder in season three.

Right, because it would be him and Scoey in in the meeting with his boss if so yeah and he says that you need to you can't avenge your partner or whatever right and that's why uh scoey dies in the previous scene man the perfect the layering of it they they really know what they're doing with this mcbain thing and and and plus they're watching mcbain because they got away with another thing they got like this is hard to explain in a streaming age the concept but they tricked their grandpa into renting them an r-rated vhs like that that would be if you could trick a babysitter into renting something that was dirtier than your parents will let you watch or more violent uh you really got away with something though if you push too far the babysitter like once a real violent scene comes on like hey wait a minute you're not

supposed to watch this and grandpa has seen this movie yeah it's what he saw before his heart attack you know after that heart attack i could see him forgetting it's all a blur yeah yeah he should have said like i remember this having a love a romance that was entirely tacked on yeah uh but but also that he just listens to bart going like bart puts him to bed and he's just giving up like yeah he's powerless but lisa though she's already facing this ethical crisis and oh and yeah they credit george meyer for by the book by book as as a great, great, bad one liner. So then, you know, I got to hand it to season two. Homer doing the work most other season homers wouldn't do, which is put on his full fishing gear.

Then a then pajamas over it, then set his alarm for 5 a.m. But wake up even before it goes off homer would not be this motivated in like a season and a half yes oh no i know homer thinks he'll be done fishing at seven but again and it's like the the graining seems to think marge is out of line let him go fishing it's like it's the lying that's the problem like he thought he could actually come back at 7 a.m having caught a 500 pound fish you know matt graining older guy different perspective on gender roles and relationships and uh i bought a life and health calendar to hang up in my office and they're all like the worst boomer takes on the

battle of the sexes and it's i should put a note underneath every cartoon like i don't actually believe this yeah not an endorsement you know great uh i believe granny had at least one divorce in the 90s as well so it's uh you know there are lots of very funny life in hells the one i'm looking at this month is like women just want you to apologize all right that's their game uh yeah no i uh i was actually flipping through a life in hell look recently and there was one comic of like the 12 type of girlfriends you can have and it's like the nag the perfect one the the drunk one all that stuff homer is uh going to leave marge but he gets caught this is also speaking of grating he mentions that homer grating himself filmed a bunch of fishing shows that was his main job in the in the portland area growing up huh but uh yeah that that homer again he seems

so do you think if homer wasn't pulled into the boat he wouldn't have fished he would have just done his full walk and walked the rest of the way back to marge oh he seemed pretty he seemed pretty chastened by like he was he was feeling bad about himself when he was down there yeah okay yeah yeah i agree i think they want to make it ambiguous so it doesn't seem completely contrived that he's pulled into a boat by the thing he was trying to thinking about catching uh you know completely unwittingly well and homer's trying to be a nice guy to tell this person like hey you left your fit you left your fishing pole that then pulls him away and i guess too if you're going to go with the magical reality of general sherman he it was fate that homer and he would intersect and that he would teach homer a lesson by pulling him around in the boat all day also another of my favorite drawings of this home marge as a catfish in homer's vision is such a funny drawing

i want that as like a like a what's it neca figure yeah yeah let's have that catfish bedroom marge in their neck as a neck of figure at the very least is like a funko like you make it a pop at least i'd buy that that'd be the one i'd buy i i i love that she knows homer enough to know exactly what he's picturing like that like that weirdly is like like a little uh information about their relationship like you know yeah oh yeah no just i know precisely what you see yes right now you're thinking about fishing right now yeah uh and so uh homer then gets dragged around we come back to act three marge awakens sees homer is not back yet and uh it turns into old man in the sea as he's being pulled around great action shots of him being pulled around which uh kirkland credits to great animator

tuck tucker who worked on a lot of great stuff on great name yes yeah uh and you know i can see why marge is pretty pissed off about this but if i were to see my partner uh even if i had just had an argument with them if i see them being pulled around by like jaws basically i think i would be more concerned or at least like what the i don't expect to see that but marge just treats it like she sees him doing normal fishing like he's at the edge of the dock fishing, you know? She doesn't catch him. She doesn't see him when he's not being dragged, though. He lands General Sherman, and he's doing his I'm the champion

as he rolls in after he does the whole I love you, but I have to kill you thing, hitting it with the oar. He rolls into frame, and she's right there. She catches him dead to rights. thing, hitting it with the oar. And like, you see, he rolls into frame and she's right there. She catches him dead to rights. Oh, sure, sure. But I mean, when she wakes up, she sees through the window, him being spun around in his boat. Yeah.

Yeah. Okay. So I jumped ahead. No, no worries. Yeah. I mean, we'll get to it eventually, but it always annoys me. It's like Homer, take at least a second to explain yourself. You know, it's not like I was pulled into a boat yeah this giant fish pulled me into a boat it's what and i had to

do it like i guess there should be maybe a drop line like oh marjorie never believed me if i told her this or something like that i just i just need them to to like address that you know but a lot of a lot of like comedy comes out of things that if people just had a conversation it would never happen then in this next clip here we not only get to hear homer fighting sherman but the kids fighting caffeine go ahead general sherman waste your strength you big ugly catfish i'm gonna still have to stick a feather with your name on it. Hmm? Hmm? Homer? No! Hmm? Hmm.

Sugar! Yes, ten, please. Is Grandpa taught me off? Are you sure you're mine? Let you kids drink coffee. The last time, yes! And Lisa is being poured a glass of feet pics. Yep, yeah.

Or validation from people I don't even know on the internet i know if you if you freeze frame it right at 16 45 on your uh on the dvds at least i believe it it'd be the same time code on disney plus yes but which frame yeah it's it's very important that singular frame a a mid blink says so much more than open eyes or closed eyes uh yeah i did that that turned into such a beautiful meme that one second and as bob correctly classified it far better than the lisa giving a presentation meme oh i hate it i saw a bad one of those the other day where someone had redrawn the art but worse oh no yuck yuck that's even more of an insult man at least at least keep the uh the animation pure from the original shots like god damn man i oh man i also

love nancy's for the last time yes like just he's bart is so wired up and he's sick of hearing from abe questioning him on this uh uh and you know funnily enough two or three a few weeks before this episode aired they debuted the deep deep trouble music video yeah that was on my mind because the exact same thing happens but there's not a fun rap yeah to go along with it uh and and while this is well animated it is not rough draft at the top of their game that too animating it too so it's not as fun looking either uh though yeah this is a very uh well bart decides that he's gonna throw an 80s kids movie style party and he invites a certain first appearing someone hey millhouse big blowout of cassidy Simpson. The only adult is frail and old. Bart's joint. Two-ish.

Be there, be square. Tell my friends. Alright, but I got some pretty funky friends. Alright. I get out at noon and I'm already invited to a party. So that was the debut of Jailbird, later named Snake by

Sideshow Bob, and the writers prefer him to be jailbird i believe but he goes back and forth but uh yeah very a pivotal character in the show he would become like um uh really big you know like a lot of side stories anytime there's a crime uh that mo was not involved with uh he's there yeah it was sometimes if they want a darker crime they'll go to herman but pretty much top criminal in the simpsons yeah he's he's done it all he's tried to kill them many times in multiple different uh iterations he's pointed a gun at maggie yeah it pulled the trigger yeah that trigger here and uh i was watching some youtube videos by this guy called the real jim he's got a lot of great youtube videos about different characters on the show and like how

they evolved and grew and one thing he pointed out is that uh sometimes in these early episodes snake has an x on his head and sometimes he doesn't and he's like i don't know why well the answer is my friend you're not familiar with the work of charles manson yeah yeah oh my god they really did that yeah yeah uh so like uh i think in this first appearance he has the X almost. I think so. I think the thing is it just reads so poorly and it can't be done as consistently, so they just got rid of it. It's just an unnecessary detail, but it's there to imply of how dangerous he is. Yes.

But Charles Manson carved an X into his forehead at his, I think, his sentencing to show that, like, oh, I was X'd out of society, man. But, of course, it turned into the swastika we all know and love later in life oh charlie manson he got a key he got bored with just that simple axe yeah let's go all the way with it yeah but yeah you'll see it come and go but i think it was like it was very inconsistent and also i don't think matt granny wanted to reference charles manson with this character oh totally but it's there up front to let you know he is dangerous he is a funky friend yeah like when you can see him uh i think his ex is very noticeable not just in this but that when i think of seeing his ex i think of him in who shot mr burns part one where he's saying like sorry i was in the can yeah he has the ex there i it's like you know it's the equivalent of mo's missing tooth you know

it's uh they slowly went away but occasionally it would stick around in the model pack and they keep them there i yeah that uh that video i had not watched one of his ones before bob but you sent me that video really it was a very helpful full history of how they write jailbird through his uh through the entire 33 season and it's such a fun choice that i'm sure hank azaria made it's like what if he sounded like a surfer dude yes it doesn't fit what he looks like at all it's just it but when it works it works for some reason it's just like yeah that's what snake sounds like uh it's incredibly distinctive i couldn't imagine it being any other way and uh yeah, I mean, Jailbird is an easy line to put in a script of just like, you know, they don't want to commit to a name to him. Otto is calling his funky friend and it'll say, you know, Jailbird line this one.

And it just kind of stuck the next time they brought him back. Like, well, we'll just call him Jailbird again. But then, yes, by Black Widow, they decided, well, he has a snake tattoo on his right arm. Let's call him Snake. And I definitely think George Meyer is the leader of the jailbird truthers who is against this snake naming. Yeah. And he's been given a lot of different names. It's sometimes they give a character a real name because they're like, oh, you wanted to know.

Here it is. It's disappointing so he was uh once called chester snake turley and then uh albert knickerbocker aloicious snake so they gave him two different names uh just to be like you want to know his name well here it is here put it in your wikipedia page i think part of that spirit is also why they give him two different ones to make the wikipedia page even more confusing but yeah i love who would have thought that a guy who's just one joke he doesn't even appear at the party his one joke is saying a rod i get out of nude like that there's no follow-up to it in this episode but i think it is they just fell in love with that voice so much and the design

they're like all right let's bring back that jillbird it's funny too in uh in that in the james woods episode with uh with apu that it wasn't jailbird that shot him that they at that point they're like oh we can't have jailbird actually shoot a guy yeah he's lovable yeah oh no beta yeah he's not a criminal criminal come on i also man his line of like see you in hell punk yeah it is like excited laughter as he's about to run over a child well he's excited about paying off his student loans at middlebury college it costs a lot uh but uh but so yes the party is about to get started uh we then cut to you know i noticed this has a lot more cutting back and forth between scenes than i'm used to in simpsons usually these scenes last a bit longer i mean i'm used to like minute long scenes as clips in my audio because

this fish stuff is not that great and it's also an inevitability that he will catch it we all know it's gonna happen yeah it's true uh and so we got to marge not being able to do trust falls which again i love love joy saying no even if your husband were here i wouldn't recommend it he's just like i can't trust him to catch you he'd just drop you know what it's not just about trust it's about upper body strength we all don't have that so put forcing this on on people. I mean, Marge, well, actually, Marge has big ropey muscles in her arm. So she could catch them. But yeah, it's also just great that Lovejoy, I love Lovejoy's speech of saying like, in my entire career, I've never said this, but no, it's all your partner's fault.

You are completely blameless, which that is a way, like his God will punish him were he to say it. But this version of love joy wouldn't say divorce later version of love would say divorce it is it is the nightmare of the person who does not want to do therapy it's like it's all your fault in fact when marge gets therapy she writes husband down and underlines these are the jokes made by people who are scared of therapy yes yeah uh and uh then we cut home abe is taking a shower he's singing over there a uh the anthem of world war one which put a stamp on abe yes yeah he at the very least was a child during world war one which would make him 80

or 90 in this episode yeah i like how they how they play fast and loose with which war he was in up to and including the joke where he served in world war one at age seven or something like that oh yeah i was gonna mention that there's a future joke in about i don't know 10 or 12 years where he's a child in world war one you know even in a 2021 episode I watched, they still kept that Abe was a World War II veteran. I feel like it's the last time they can make that joke. Because, you know, even somebody who was like drafted at 18 in 1944 is quite old at this point. Yeah. Is Skinner still a Vietnam vet?

I know we're not talking about episodes this this late but i haven't watched a recent one i don't think they've retconned that yet to say no he was in the gulf war or whatever yeah i don't think they made it the gulf war yet it also doesn't get brought up as much as it used to either yeah uh but abe abe opens the door to see uh basically like a house party scene from house party the movie going on like there's a slip and slide in the middle of it all these kids are eating garbage and uh and you know what i find it to be an interesting dichotomy that it begins with the parents hosting a party and ends with bart and lisa hosting a party and yes then also in the doorway you can see otto talking with the boss of moe's bar uh moe's bar

in the arcade game oh right the skinhead character is right there with the the motorcycle there's someone on a motorcycle and uh yeah then cuts to homer battling the fish again i do like i think it's a really well executed shot of the sherman jumping over his boat and homer saying holy mackerel that's another thing reese complains about on the commentary is that there's a boy in the background nelson is shoving kids his face into ice cream but a boy is walking around with ice cream on his eyes but reese feels like it looks like his eyes were gouged out yeah it's it's disturbs him so we get a Nelson laugh in this yeah sounds wrong is this the first of the Nelson laughs though yeah it is and it isn't okay yeah because we recorded it first I think three men in a comic book is the

closest to its modern laugh his modern laugh this is the beginning of it the evolution is that correct yes so uh yeah that's the next episode in season two at least an air order after this but i believe it goes that they write this scene of abe being laughed at by nelson they love the sound of it but you know what i'll just play the quick clip of the first ha-ha. Lisa, what's wrong? Isn't it obvious? We've degraded ourselves and set back the children's rights movement for decades to come. You're great at a party, Lisa. Really great. Hey!

You! No! Shut that door! Stop it! Put that away! No! Stop! Oh!

Ow! You, Doug Hellion! You want me to take off my belt? Yeah! All right. So. Doggone it! you want me to take off my belt yeah all right yeah it's not quite right it's it should be two sharp ha ha's and so it's like yeah so it's a three ha's yeah so i believe it goes that they hear nancy do that as nelson but the the three laughs and they love the sound of

but they're like let's shorten that and make it repeat to the same ha ha just twice and yeah so in the next episode when bart is doing his lemonade stand and nelson nelson unexpectedly rides by on his bike points and says ha ha and leaves the scene. So that's the first proper ha ha. But it wouldn't have happened without that early version of it in this episode. There we go. Yeah. I dare say that ha ha is the most used expression invented by the Simpsons next to dough.

I think so. Just because of how punchy and how applicable it is to many situations. That and dough, I think, are what stuck the most. Oh, yeah, yeah. Very versatile. People don't derisively laugh the same after this episode, for sure. I also love Bart just crapping on Lisa, like, you're great as a party, Lisa. Really great.

Like, let's have some fun, you know? And then, meanwhile, Otto, I feel like Otto brought his own beer to this. Yeah. Hey, he's looking for chicks over eight so yes he's a guardian right now aim a little higher than over eight on let's uh let's do that please uh so so yes we then get straight up a moment from hemingway's old man in the sea of homer finally lands him in the boat he breaks his oar over his head and he says, I love you, but I must kill you. And very cartoonally, Sherman's tongue is sticking out after having his head bashed in. And then the party's over. Nelson is walking out and he stole Homer's tie from work.

So, okay, I guess here, this is how I read this. This is a parody of a sitcom trope where a normal sitcom would just have the grandpa cry and then the kids feel bad about it but showing abe laugh at it ups it one extra level that's uh to to show that like oh no he's fucking with them he's not actually a crying sad old man he waited too long to pull this gambit though because like yeah you got everything you wanted and now you have to pull this gambit though because like yeah you got everything you wanted and now you have to clean up it's like well you i you would have cleaned up anyways if i didn't reveal if it was a ruse yeah yeah there's what what exactly was their

plan at the end to just i guess they could have blamed it on abe and been like oh you know how abe is he threw this big party or something it's his fault yeah and that's where bob you had that great intro line of like remorse you it's called remorse you vile burlesque of irrepressible youth what a great line i think james l brooks wrote that absolutely sorry cole oh yeah no i just um for for abe's gambit to make pervia more sense to me like he would have to be enjoying seeing all of this he has to get something out of letting it happen as opposed to just doing this emotional ploy to get them to to get them to clean up for him right if he knew this that's like an inconsistency like that would have made the

joke it would it would have made the joke funnier if they would have addressed that yeah yeah it's weird that again his revenge is like i let you have a lot of fun and now my revenge is you have to clean up yeah and. And do it by yourself, because you feel bad for me. Yeah. I like, too, that Bart, it's like when he has to apologize to her at Thanksgiving. He's like, I feel this weird sensation. What is it? And Lisa has to remind him this is the feeling of guilt.

Like, the proof that you're not fully a sociopath, Bart. That's what you're feeling. It's the opposite of shame. Not that opposite. In the future, it'll be a tick biting Bart's neck. So then we cut to Homer celebrating. As a kid, this was the first time I heard the song We Are the Champions, though butchered by Homer here, which is a great stupid line that he keeps champions plural, but he changes we to I.

It's like he's messing it up on two levels. He's not singing it straight, but he also didn't update it enough. And it's a really good, like, long shot, too, of, like, the boat. It's a full, like, just across the camera move of the boat to meet meet up with marge too but you know it's gonna come but just the the timing of it is very good and her just standing there just just looking incredibly cross adam she's using her least nagging tone of voice there it is uh which also yeah once homer you know what it's almost like a parody of marge because you're right cole as soon as she comes in the frame her her hands are on her hips like yep yeah she's always starting homer yeah which though you know uh homer you can say like oh homer didn't want to catch the fish like one he could have let go of the fish at any time but he

chose not to and two his big celebratory song shows that he completely forgot the reason he's there and marge entirely like it's proof to her that he completely forgot the reason he's there and marge entirely like it's proof to her that he completely forgot her and ignored her uh entirely yes but i i'm sure brooks thought he you know was another of the classic uh he pulled it off but this really is just to me it reads as two people in denial about their bad relationship. Yes. Yeah. I am the champion. I am the champion. No time for losers. Cause I am the champion of the world.

Uh oh. Hi honey. Uh oh. How's the marriage retreat going? We came to this retreat because I thought our marriage was in trouble. But I never for a minute thought it was in this much trouble. Homer, how can you expect me to believe you?

Marge, Marge, you don't know what this fish means. This fish represents a better life for both of us. This fish makes me a champion and a hero. To who? To those weirdos in the worm store. All this fish represents is just how selfish you are. Well, if that's the way you feel, I'll do it back. Oh, yeah, sure.

Watch! Whoa. I did it. I gave up fame and breakfast for my marriage. I fought it for six hours. She says one word, and I toss it back. And you're telling me our marriage is in trouble come here baby i just that's uh it it it just feels so cheap especially with oh homer it is the biggest stock

marge line and there's so much funny stuff in this episode that i i feel bad for both of them i don't think that's self-aware enough to be like, this solves everything. It's not as bad as the end of Dance and Homer where that very contrived scene where it's implied that Homer is now going to leave Marge. Oh no, I'm sorry, not Dance and Homer. It's the...

Thank you, thank you. Dance and Homer also has a contrived ending too. That's right, sorry. There's a few in the season. Yeah, it's like, Homer, look me in the eyes and tell me you don't love me. And then he's like, I love you more than ever, baby, for no reason. And on the commentary, they're like, why does he love her more than ever? Yeah. I think our guest on that episode, Matt Chrisman, I think figured it out.

He's like, well, yeah, he's drunk. So Homer's just like, I love you, baby. I'm drunk. That's why he says he loves beer before he loves Marge. My love for you will never die. Yeah. Yeah, you're right, baby. I'm drunk. That's why he says he loves beer before he loves Marge. My love for you will never die. Yeah, you're right, Bob. This is them trying to pull it off again, which in that one they did it in the edit. In this one they're like, no, it works well on its own.

But yes, Homer thinks that throwing back a fish that seemingly is dead, as far as homer knows his dad is like big whoop you threw a dead fish in the in the water like you didn't yeah that it does what to you you still ignored my emotions throwing away a fish it also is like oh the proof that homer threw away something he cared about means he loves her more than it it's like no it just to me it just reads as when you're in a fight with somebody and you just go like oh yeah oh yeah and like you like smash your car or whatever like see and it's a thing you regret later but it doesn't prove anything it's just you did a thing you wouldn't

normally do just to win an argument you know also his his case that like catching this fish is going to change us forever like what kind of media tour do you think you're going to go on for catching a big fish there? There's a very funny line where he wants to become one of the most famous fishermen, like that bald guy on that cable show, which was such a vague description. Looking that up only brought me to that line in the episode.

Bald guy gave him a pleasing job. Yeah. But I guess, you know, we shouldn't discount that there's magic in the air for this scene that's that that they're actually enchanted and that's how their love comes back together uh which famously matt graining hates when animals do cartoony acting and he really hated this one he really hate in the i would guess uh 2002 or 3 recorded commentary he is also like he hates it that much i would bet if you showed it to him now he'd really hate it i i think it's fine it's not the worst the worst sin in this scene to me is just marge marge's

oh homer that's far more contrived than a winking giant catfish yeah yeah yeah bart here uh then it cuts back to them cleaning up uh did they let spider pig in because there's tracks on the ceiling now i just see tracks on the ceiling i think a good old spider pig uh but yeah they're cleaning up thing i always get confused with the better version of it from margin chains where they clean up the place before march comes over and it's just entirely under the rug and it's like there's a man under the rug too yeah hey watch it yeah i mean they're wrapping up but i mean they're these gags are kind of they're not exaggerated enough it's just like i guess i've seen so many like crazier versions of this the fact that they're raking indoors is just like okay yeah yeah that's one way to do it yeah in season

two it's more great it's it's uh it's the craziest thing but we've seen the better heightened version uh two seasons later yeah as they finish their cleaning up and maggie covers the last spot of gum marge and homer arrive in deep denial i I like to think, in this last clip. We're back. How's your marriage? Same as usual. Perfectamundo. Oh, my.

The house looks wonderful. Grandpa, what's your secret? Pretending to cry. That's right. You heard me. Pretending to cry. I can turn it on and off like a faucet. Oh, I'm crying.

I'm so sad. Way to go, Grandma. You'll never trust another old person. I fooled you. So long, suckers. Here, General Sherman. They say he's 500 pounds of bottom-dwelling fury, don't you know?

No one knows how old he is, but if you ask me, and most people do, he's 100 years if he's a day. And no one's ever caught him? Well, one fella came close, went by the name of Homer. Seven feet tall he was, with arms like tree trunks, and his eyes were like steel, cold and hard. Had a shocker hair, red like

the fires of hell. So, the Henry tale of the tape, this, I never hear that bit about the the hairline in my original what was your excuse we just hit stop on the recording too soon that's all the joke wasn't done wait for the credits uh look i i don't believe i was old enough to be given the responsibility to hit stop on it so i'm not taking blame for this one it was it was roughly uh 299.99 for a blank tape back then you know or else our tape ran out of tape i think it might have been that one of those two but

i should have set it to extended play well you know our mistake too was well you know this is season two it's early in our family taping stuff and then uh second i think we just played too close to the sun we're just like that looks like enough space yeah just riding that stop button let the man finish his joke uh but you know why does that guy sound like an act like an extra in a stephen king movie oh that's great that's what i like about i love the main choice for him we don't go down that way anymore uh yeah i think the whole speech about pretending to cry and his so long suckers and also the music like that would work enough as a as a tune out but i kind of like that one we get

to go back to the bait shop and to find out that homer is a legend even without catching the fish and uh which uh which i guess that also gives homer kind of like a win as well an undeserved one because he already his win is he got to keep marge but he gets one more win that even though he didn't actually catch general sherman or prove that he did he's still a legend at the at the bait shop to the the weird weird of the worm store yep uh but yeah i guess my final thought on this one as as far as a you know cartoon about marriage on the rocks uh you know my my parents didn't get divorced till i was an adult so i that means it should have happened earlier yes yeah they maybe that's why i see that homer and marjorie like oh my parents going deeper into denial of their bad relationship but

uh has i think it's it's a fine little episode about about a marriage retreat but they'd uh they'd find wackier things to do with these ideas even by three men in a comic book and blood feud those also have more sitcomy starting points but they'd find funnier stuff to do and it doesn't get the emotion right like like the other recent one in season two that we did, Lisa's Substitute. Like that lands emotion about as good as they're going to. So this one, meanwhile, it's just like you said, Bob, they're not addressing the real problem in their relationship here. No. Yeah.

The plots are too stock in this one. There's a lot of very funny jokes, a lot of funny cutaways like the Algonquin roundtable thing. But I feel like it's so stock and they're not aware of just how overdone these ideas are. Like, oh, the kids throw a party and mom and dad aren't home. Oh, and I feel like they would push these ideas further or at least address the fact like, hasn't this idea been done before? What's the craziest thing we can do? Or can the can the characters talk about how doesn't every kid do this on tv i don't know i'm not punching up the script right now but i feel like i'm spoiled by having seen like 30 more years of the show and uh it's hard to go

back to ideas when they're just kind of playing in them right now and not really going as far as they would but uh yeah and also like uh airlifting in james l brooks to make an emotional ending uh they gotta stop they're gonna stop doing that for the better to stop yeah but like having like Yeah, and also, like, airlifting in James L. Brooks to make an emotional ending. They got to stop. They're going to stop doing that for the better. They're about to stop, yeah. But, like, having, like, James write us a really good speech for Homer to say, okay. And then he does it. And it works sometimes if you examine what's happening in the story.

It's not convincing. And the, oh, Homer thing is just like, come on, guys. This is not where I want you to be. But, again, it's the end of the season. And these are kind of some dreary episodes here and there and it's only going to get better. Brooks's production on I'll Do Anything can't come soon enough. Get them out of that room

and they can get crazier. Cole, any final thoughts yourself? I pretty much agree with everything you guys have said. For me, this one is saved by some really good gags. I like some of the darker moments in this the you know that that that song just sends chills up my spine you know about them being out in the

car uh but the thing that kind of sticks out to me you know going back to it and talking about it is this this one is really saved by really good performances to me actually julie cavner um i mean just in the same scene um you know playing off of uh you know doing the virginia wolf uh parody and then also her doing the rundown list of uh list of complaints and grievances and even early on like this is a different flavor of drunk homer that we that we would know so i think all of these are like just really good performances that lift the material for me and made this like surprisingly fun to go back and watch for being a season two episode and and some really funny drawings

too like there's some really good stuff in this that that even become memes yes I did like it more than I thought I would going back to it but yeah I'm looking forward to the next episode in blood feud so but Cole thanks for being on the show please let us know where we can find you and what you guys are working on right now this will go

live in the middle of January. In the middle of January? Cool. Yeah. So you can find all of our shows at DuckFeed.TV. Most of them are available for the public. We have a Patreon with some premium stuff that goes. We've got a whole bunch of stuff going on.

Big event-wise, watch out for fireballs we'll just put out the um fallout 4 series that we're doing we're doing the entirety of fallout 4 and all of the uh expansions over the course of december uh so that is there we're in we're on bonfire side chat we're in the run-up to uh elden ring so covering uh some other souls likes before we get into uh uh the the new official stuff and uh on orb uh we're going to be starting and getting into um season five of the venture brothers as well in addition to all the other stuff there that we have going on i dare say you make more podcasts than we do and that's uh that's quite a high bar yeah it's it's it's ill-advised

uh but no we uh yeah we we strain to reach your level of productivity with that. But it all sounds awesome. Thank you so much, Cole, for coming on. Yes, thank you, Cole. So thanks so much to Cole Ross for being on the show. Please check out everything he does at duckfeed.tv. And as for us, if you want to check out more of what we do and get all these episodes one week at a time and at free,

please head on over to patreon.com slash TalkingSimpsons. Sign up there and get just that, but also access to everything behind the $5 paywall. That includes all of our limited miniseries, over 100 bonus episodes. Most recently, one that we did was Blabbing About Batman, the animated series. That is 10 new podcast episodes about our 10 favorite episodes of Batman, the animated series. It's only happening behind the $5 paywall at patreon.com slash TalkingSimpsons. And there's a $10 level as well sign up for that you get all the $5 stuff as well but also access to one megalon podcast

once a month only for patrons of that level or higher and what is that henry bob is talking about the what a cartoon movie podcast you know that we have our sister podcast what a cartoon and once a month on there we cover an animated feature film super in-depth just like we do the simpsons often for over four hours long. Just last month at the end of the year, we covered Millennium Actress for its 20th anniversary, a favorite of me and Bob's. And also right before that, we did the holiday classic, if you're still in the holiday mood, Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer.

An over three-year-long stretch of what a cartoon movies is at your fingertips. Over 210 hours, I estimate, of exclusive podcasts that range from films as diverse as Lion King to a goofy movie to Beavis and Butthead to America to Kiki's Delivery Service to Ghost in the Shell. So, so many. You will certainly find some movies you want to listen to us talk about if you go up to that $10 level and to get all the $5 things Bob mentioned too you can see the full list of them if you visit patreon.com slash talking simpsons so as for me I've been one of your hosts Bob Mackey you can find me on twitter as Bob Servo and I have another podcast by the way it's called Retronauts it's a classic gaming podcast about old video games find that wherever you find podcasts or go to patreon.com slash retronaut sign up there for two full-length bonus episodes every month and henry how about you follow me on twitter at h-e-n-e-r-e-y-g to stay up to date on all the henry gilbert things going on and also you should be following the official twitter account of this podcast at talk simpsons

pod if you want to know when new podcasts go live, when we're doing live shows, all the cool stuff, you will stay up to date if you follow at TalkSimpsonsPod on Twitter. See you next time, everybody, for Season 12's episode, Children of a Lesser Claw. See you then. Hi. You're Homer's sister-in-law, right? I remember you. But I don't remember you being so beautiful. Oh! Ow, hey!

Ow! Is that a new kind of mace? Really painful.