Talking Simpsons - Talking Simpsons - Three Gays of the Condo With Gayest Episode Ever

Episode Date: April 17, 2024

Another queer-themed episode of Simpsons means we again called upon two experts, Drew Mackie and Glen Lakin from the excellent Gayest Episode Ever Podcast! After Homer gets mad at Marge for reasons he thinks are defensible (they aren't), he moves in with two gay characters who both become key parts of Springfield. We deconstruct this 2003 approach to gay sitcom characters and their legacy (that Drew & Glen are connected to. Plus we detail how Harvey Fierstein wasn't in this while Weird Al was, with tons more trivia in this week's queer podcast! Support this podcast and get over 150 bonus episodes by visiting Patreon.com/TalkingSimpsons and becoming a patron! And please follow the official Twitter, @TalkSimpsonsPod!

This podcast is brought to you by patreon.com slash talking simpsons head there to check out exclusive podcasts like talking futurama talk king of the hill the what a cartoon movie podcast and tons more. I heartily endorse this event or product. Ahoy, hoy, everybody, and welcome to Talking Simpsons, where we have access to a gay time machine. I'm one of your hosts, the manly yet scented Bob Mackie, and this is our chronological exploration of The Simpsons. Who is here with me today, as always? Hey, it's Henry Gilbert, and I dub this Three Gays on a Pato.

And who are our special guests on the line? Calm down, picky Ricardo. It's Drew Mackey. And Harvey Fierstein was right, Glenn Lakin. And this week's episode is Three Gays of the Condo. Hey, Waylon. Who's the bear? Oh, is that the Mr. Burns you're always talking about? No, he's nobody.

Shut up, Stuart. Nice to meet you, Stuart. the bear oh is that the mr burns you're always talking about no he's nobody shut up stewart nice to meet you stewart this episode originally aired on april 13th 2003 and as always henry will tell us what happened on this mythical day in real world history oh my god oh boy bobby saddam hussein statue is torn down in baghdad some reason. Anger management is number one in theaters. And Rugrats all grown up debuts on Nickelodeon. I mean, the best thing we did in the Middle East was statue removal. I think no one can argue against that. That tearing down the statue thing was supposed to be the most

memorable image from the invasion of Iraq. I would say the Abu Ghraib photos are more remembered, I'd say. But definitely it appeared in more... If you see, for irony's sake or whatever, in a TV show, a statue being torn down, it is likely a reference to this moment. I mean, I have both framed in my bathroom. They really wanted this to be our moon landing or something because I remember I was working a retail job

and my manager literally called me to the back room to watch this happening on TV. Man, that's scary. So technically I was paid to watch this footage. Oh, that's nice. That's good for you. Boss makes a dollar, I make a dime. That's why I watch Saddam Hussein statues get pulled down on company time.

That's beautiful. That's great. Put that on a film. As the old rhyme goes. Was this before or after we found him in a spider hole, I think, as we termed it? Oh, it's months before the spider hole thing. Yeah. It's a good while.

It's not until the second season of Arrested Development. Arrested Development season one has only just begun. Oh, that puts it in context. You can chart the entire invasion of Iraq through the first three seasons of Arrested Development. The season began in October or November, I believe. All right. I just love the scene where father returns to home and is found by Michael Cera, and Michael Cera is putting a light in his mouth.

That was the reference to the fighting of Saddam Hussein. Yeah. Right, right, right. Thinking about the Simpsons episode being aired concurrently with the first season of Arrested Development really puts it in context for me. Can you imagine going back to the year 2003 and telling yourself there will be a season of Arrested Development that you don't want to watch and you never have watched it? Oh, I watched it.

I would just, I'd lose my mind. Well, I still haven't. Me neither. I was thinking about it a few days ago. There's a character who is a district attorney named Lottie Da. So she's Lottie Da, DA lotty dotty da and i was just like they really lost the thread they really lost the thread on that one it really peaked that bob blah blah yeah with the with the names our mistake was we praised mitch hurwitz too much and he got a god complex and thought he could he could do anything he cannot have that now still, currently, right? You never know. I don't know.

But yes, in Anger Management, number one in theaters, Adam Sandler and Jack Nicholson together at last. I recall the poster. I'm sure it's in the top percentile of Adam Sandler regular comedy movies, I would guess. It's been a long time since I've seen it. I don't think

perhaps this is a spoiler, I don't think anyone cares if I spoiler the end of Anger Management. But really, it's like a studio comedy, but the end is like David Fincher's The Game. Really? That's some spoiler. Yes. You also managed to spoil The Game, too. Oh. Well, hey, from the

beginning, you know it's a game, right? Or is it? It's called The Game, yeah. I think that the brand of Anger Management, of course, has been damaged thanks to the Charlie Sheen show spun out of this and remade for television. It might be better. I actually hear it's not bad. It's come up in a lot of our Chuck Lorre research. I mean, it has Johnny Smith.

And it was a comeback vehicle for Brett Butler of Grace Under Fire fame when she fixed her life. That's nice. I'm glad she pulled things together. Oh, and yes, Rugrats All Grown Up. We got to feel a little bit like, what if the Rugrats aged in real time 10 whole years? And of course, the Rugrats wouldn't have even been born without the Simpsons to draft off of. Yeah, I think this is coming hot off the heels of two specials called All Growed Up. So they fixed the grammar issues with the title, so that's great.

But yeah, now if they do another one of these, I know they recently had a reboot, but they should do another one of these where Tommy Pickles is like 35 at this point. Still wearing a diaper though? Yes. That's because he's in the fetish community. Yeah, it'll be an important movement,

no pun intended, for the diaper fetish community. But yes, that's all the fun things that were happening the week that this classic episode of season 14 uh or let's say historically important episode sure yeah yeah but joining us today are drew mackie and glenn lincoln from gayest episode ever and i want to point out that i wrote down three gays of the potto but henry said it first so we were both on the same page there i knew i had to make it my title thing because everyone else would have thought of it so i was like i

gotta get on the jump i had everybody else on this i tried to workshop the pun and i was like someone else will figure it out they'll do a better job than i will and you did so great yeah but yes you guys are the co-hosts of the gayest episode ever we've had you on many times and now we just had you on for a look well one but now an even more tokenizing appearances i like to say but but yeah i guess episode ever you guys have even covered this episode oh yes i want to say famously only because i think it was the most angry i've been on our podcast uh but we're not famous so it's not really most famously yeah we don't we don't normally do stuff we don't like like it's not something we really want to do to like just bag on something that doesn't work for us.

Because I don't think that makes for great podcasting. But we made an exception for The Simpsons since they've done so many gay episodes. And it's such an important show for us. And we love The Simpsons that we thought it would be fair to lay out the reasons why this is not our favorite episode of any TV show that's existed ever. When you did that podcast, like, four years ago, have you warmed up to this anymore in the years since? No. I think actually I don't look on it more kindly.

I can appreciate the parts of it. And I think it's just more that maybe COVID has killed something in me other than like Brain cells. My brain, yeah. Yeah, brain cells. So yeah, I guess post-COVID I've softened somewhat. I've hardened. So I think there's jokes in this episode that are really funny.

And there's one in particular that makes me laugh whenever I think about it. You love Dead Wives, famously. I love people with Dead Wives. But I feel like, I think when we did this for the first time, it was like our 40th something episode. And now we've done like 200 something episodes.

So we spent a lot more time looking at how other shows have dealt with gay issues. And it just sort of makes me more upset that this is The Simpsons follow follow-up to Homer's Phobia, which is great, which holds up and we love so much. And for all the reasons that I mentioned the last time I talked about it on this podcast, and it is just not fit to be the successor

to that episode at all, unfortunately. And of course, I am here like normal for the often overlooked straight man's opinion. Now, you know know with this episode i can i remember watching it live and it was new and i though always conflated in my mind as being a response to like queer eye for the straight guy but every time i look it up i'm like no this this actually aired months before that tv show debuted right they were both feeding off something that was in the Zeitgeist, which I'm sure that notion comes up in the research you did for how this episode came about. Well, the gay men fix your lives. Queer eyes in the news this morning because there was just an expose about Jonathan Van Nuys or whatever his name is being an absolute monster.

Oh, I'm shocked. I'm shocked by this. I did not see this. There's too much gay news to keep. I had to read several gay articles just to be ready for some of the subjects on this episode. Yeah, there's a lot going on. If you look at what was going on in TV when this episode came out, a lot of people were trying to do the same thing, which was showing gay characters in a gay context, which is different from what they were doing before, which is having gay characters enter the familiar straight context which is good and

like growth and thank you will and grace for helping that happen but this is just a weird version of that i think you know when you say will and grace you're right this is very much in the era of will and grace and sex in the city of just like you know the one type of gay man is allowed on tv and in some cases a gay person even gets to play them. But it still is a very specific type of gay guy that gets to be shown on TV. I will, to get ahead of myself, I don't like how many, how the joke is. Could you imagine a fat guy like Homer in the gay community? Ugh, oh, yuck.

Like, that hurts still. Yeah. I think two maybe gay episodes in the future they introduce the character grizzly sean who is when the simpsons staff realized that bears exist and for what it's worth grizzly sean has stuck around and gets to do fun stuff on the show and even has a partner no i love grizzly sean he's one of my newer faves in the show yes yeah well you know they acknowledge bears in this episode yet they refuse refuse to designate Homer as being in that type. What are the trolley gays' mistakes in Forbina Bear, I think?

But the trolley's zooming by. Is trolley gay a type now? I just want to say, this episode actually offended me more as a screenwriter than it is a gay man. This offended me more as a husband than of someone who uh loves gay people let's say well yes this is an episode written by a um of you know divorce is not a uh it's not a fault of a person but i will say this is a very divorced staff or future divorced staff of men writing an episode like this and that's yes the gay characterization doesn't bother me more as much as how poorly they write this relationship and this is very much in the era of

marriage is hell and you wait for the other person to die jokes i i do want to put a pin in that and cover the writer of this episode who we haven't covered yet he wrote the segment called do the bard man for season 13's Tales from the Public Domain. But I wanted to wait until his first full episode to cover him in a writer's corner. And that writer is Matt Warburton. So what I remember most about this writer is on these commentaries around this time, or sorry, I'm thinking of season four. So on those commentaries around that time, Al Jean says,

oh, we now have a writer who's Bart's age or younger than Bart. Untrue. But he was a very young writer for that staff at that time. Matt Warburton, born in 1978, making him about 15 to 20 years younger than the average Simpsons writer on that staff. So he was fresh blood. No, it's impressive that somebody near our age got to ever write on The Simpsons back then. It feels like a very recent thing where they hire people who are under 40.

So let's go over his credentials. So yes, he did go to Harvard. I knew you were going to ask me this, of course. That is your ticket to the Simpsons. And he has a degree in cognitive neuroscience, so he's a real smarty pants. And of course, he wrote for The Lampoon. Do I need to tell you this?

If you've been listening to our show, these are the ways you get onto the simpsons in this time period and this is why he was able to start writing for the show at the tender age of 23 wow yeah yeah man so we're already very resentful of matt warburton and his amazing career that is only just starting on the simpsons this is his first thing he ever did in showbiz so when we were of his age we should have been going to harvard instead of like trying to like write funny things or go places like or have yeah i've experienced i i didn't at the time i didn't know in the year 2000 i didn't know i had to go to harvard first right yeah i should have done that should have not should have not rejected harvard bob it's not too late for you guys to try to get into Harvard in your 40s.

I could be so non-traditional and then become a Simpsons writer at like 60. That's my next path in life. So more about Matt Warburton. He was an Al Jean production season 13 hire. He was hired for the start of that production season, She of Little Faith. Warburton would write 11 total episodes before leaving the show in 2012. And at that point he was a co-executive producer and i will say in the year 2024 10 years seems like a relatively

short tenure for a simpsons writer we have people who have been on the staff for 20 25 years at this point and al jean is now in his 21st year after his return to the show yeah it's a it's a lot like again that matt selman gets to feel like the new guy uh compared to al jean even though he is a like a mike scully hire yeah actually i think al jean is in his 23rd year of his return after having spent four years on the show and then a lot of time on and off before he took over again so he really never left outside of working on the critic and teen angel and that stuff and even then he still had a freelance capacity of working on some simpsons every year even in that time too yeah like consulting producer work so what did matt warburton leave to do well he was a consulting producer on

season three of community but more importantly warburton was a writer and showrunner for all six seasons of the mindy project and when you follow his career from this point on basically everything he does involves mindy kaling in some way well hey that's a good wagon to hitch yourself to because she keeps making shows you are going to stay busy and employed and i have never seen a second of the mindy project i've heard it's uh it's a fine show are there any opinions about this show i know nothing about about it outside of the star, really. Really good cast. Yeah, I like the pilot a lot.

And then it's just one of those shows that through its first season sort of abandons what the concept of the show is and just became a workplace comedy. The only Mindy Kaling show I have watched is Velma. Oh, did you finish that uh certainly not no i got halfway no look i got halfway through the season once i watched the episode where her and daphne kiss i was like all right i've gotten enough here i think i've got it well hey that's going to come up in my history here so after after six years on the mindy project he works on the follow-up to that the one seasonseason show Champions. It's a sitcom.

Know nothing about that. Following this, he developed a Four Weddings and a Funeral Hulu series with, you guessed it, Mindy Kaling. So in recent years, he's written for the Saved by the Bell reboots, the show Never Have I Ever, the show The Sex Lives of College Girls, and Velma. And the last three things I mentioned have one thing in common mindy kayling so uh they must be friends or something but i don't know what a harvard guy is doing talking to dartmouth scum i i would bet bj novak introduced her because he's another man yeah i see i mean uh is that even on the vine i'm not even sure yeah that look yeah that velma show i feel it felt weird to hate it even or dislike it because i was like yeah but everybody's disliking it i don't want to i

wanted to give it a chance and i think also the animators who worked on it were doing good jobs but i was like just watching it i just remember thinking like i don't know there's we just did a podcast about invincible and it again left me thinking seth rogan seems to actually respect animators and not just like use them as a tool for making a show i wish more people were like that yeah who'd have thought that seth rogan would end up being the person who was doing good adaptations left and right he's like surprisingly made some really interesting stuff in the last few years and i i didn't see this coming a decade ago it's that vancouver uh niceness you know that's that's i think he he

actually respects animators are you friends with him yet bob does that happen no i expect uh to receive like a gift basket from him at some point or at least to pass him on the street and give a knowing nod and wink okay cool but yeah that is matt warburton and i don't know what he'll do next but i'm going to assume mindy kaling will be involved in some respect. Also, for what it's worth, because we do this whenever we cover a show on our podcast, as near as I can tell, it seems straight. I couldn't find a definite answer that I guess he's a heterosexual, but sure as hell seems like a heterosexual. Maybe we should ask Mindy Kaling. She might know.

Yes, I had to do creepy Googles like Matt Warburton wife. Yeah. And I didn't really find anything. So, I mean, I'm not sure about his sexuality. Like you said, I don't know how this sounds, but he seems straight. He mentions, again, it'll probably something that you guys already got, but he mentioned when he was living in Los Angeles writing for The Simpsons, he had friends who lived in West Hollywood.

So it made it seem like it was a venture he was taking away from his regular life to go see how the gays live their lives. Maybe he meant that he was a Silver Lake gay, not a WeHo gay. That is the thing. This is the kind of specifics we need for this episode. Because this episode is a very L.A. gay episode, right? This downtown does not look to me like the Castro or Boys Town or whatever or Chelsea. It looks like West Hollywood.

Plus the trolley, except it has a trolley which is the only weird part but everything else works for west hollywood but probably a lot of other like gay gayborhoods in the u.s look like west hollywood because west hollywood's such an influential gay neighborhood that they just like did what they did you know you know i have to say warburton's youth that's why i don't want to blame him for uh shortcomings in this script because i feel like al jean had a lot of influence on this in bad ways because also i when you hear the story on the commentary it's like this was a carolyn omine pitch and i was like god i wish she'd written this because one she actually seems to be much

more in touch with the gay community i like she wrote the the working mom drag race episode and also being a woman i feel like the the stuff with uh marge uh hating homer would be handled a lot better i think yeah actually in fact um i got to go to a table read back in the day because of carolyn omine's gay friend who invited me well there you go yeah yeah yeah yeah we were talking about the origin of the plot it was carolyn omine's idea that homer finds a breakup letter that marge wrote decades ago that was her idea and then al jean's idea was oh it would be funny if there was an argument between homer and marge and homer is actually right and my my response after watching this again is he was because i find this trend this in this uh husband pilled show where a lot

of the plots are homer did something bad but when you scolded him, you were a little too mean. And now you need to apologize twice. I feel like that's an abusive relationship. And in many ways they make jokes about how it is, but sometimes they want you to buy into like, oh no, Marge is actually in the wrong for overreacting. And I find this is another one of those plots. Carolyn Omine's basic idea is still intact in beginning and ending, but it's like whatever was going to be the middle section of that original carolyn omena idea they yanked it out and shoved something gay in its place which is one of the reasons i feel like the gay element doesn't necessarily it just seems randomly stuffed into this episode does that make sense well same with say a big guest star who

has no reason to be here or even a trip to medieval times also just doesn't matter to this episode or the plot of it yeah it makes me even more upset because like the gay stuff could have worked whenever you're talking about someone trying to put their relationship in context the best way you can do it is to have them like hang out with people who have because of like society and culture had to live their relationship and love lives in a different way and homer just learns nothing from this experience he learns he likes drinking and can be around them uh but this reminds me i complain more about this in the skull years but this is a new another version of this of like they want to write homer as a horrible monster because it's fun like he's a bad in the skull years it's like homer is a bad dad and we're having fun with that but then when they in the skull years they want to have a turn of like say

when lisa a meditation moment and she realizes you know what dad actually does a lot of stuff he doesn't like to do with me and i was like wait no the point of this episode is he doesn't this is not the lesson you should learn and this feels similar except now it's marge i will say tragically this episode won an emmy and i could tell you what it was up against yeah i will flip the table talking about this yeah uh so yes futurama jurassic bark an episode i'm not crazy about but i think i deserve to win more than this um as told by ginger the episode and then she was gone kim possible the episode crush and spongebob squarepants the segments uh new student starfish or clams and if i was on the academy i would have uh voted for something not on the

ballot the king of the hill episode the texas skillsaw massacre which was my favorite animated sitcom episode of this season but i'm not on the academy yeah so i guess you guys convinced i guess bob you convinced me that jurassic bark is not good as I remember. And I believe you when you explain that, like, the trick that episode does is kind of cheap and manipulative, but it does linger more in pop culture memory than this episode does. So probably did deserve to win. If I'm mischaracterizing your thoughts on Jurassic Bark, a lot in common with this where the main dilemma is that a monster needs to be apologized to immediately for any resolution to happen. In that case, Bender is the monster. Fry has to apologize for reasons that are unclear to me. Though at least Bender goes through a physical sacrifice of some kind. Yes. Homer does nothing.

That is true. Thank you. Thank you for pointing that out because that helps, but i still think things are a little shaky in that episode so i think if i am the kind of person who votes for emmys i'm old and out of touch and i see this like science robot show i'm not gonna watch that oh the simpsons did something with gays that probably deserves the emmy because they probably did a good job with it and it was just such a vibe at the time everyone was doing gay stuff like all the networks that didn't have will and grace were trying to make their own will and grace that it just seemed like the necessary thing that like good liberals should support they probably voted for it without

watching and realizing that kind of sucks like yeah i mean doesn't simpsons have like four of the five writing animation all right well let's talk about we talked about that in our recent uh podcast yeah you them dominating the emmys is nothing compared to their dominance since 2003 of the writers guild awards animation section uh award because uh when it got built or created in 2003 since then simpsons has won almost all of the awards and has been the majority of the nominees like this year four Simpsons episodes and one Futurama episode that's all of the WGA nominees for best animation that makes me disappointed that feels like people aren't doing research properly because there's some real good stuff out there it's not what I nominated let me just say

that thank you Glenn I don't know how much you can like give us insight into this but is it only wga animated shows that are well okay well that still is like eight other good shows i can think of off the top of my head right like bob's burgers and the rick and morty season that had nothing that justin roiland was not involved in so that's why i just say when i compliment the rick and morty season yeah it's it is a shame that like most of the shows that win animated shows that win WGA representation for the room happen to be Fox primetime shows or things that have spun off of that. I think maybe we'll see how the upcoming animation strike I'm sure will happen this year shakes things out, whether more writers rooms will seek wga protection or whatever but like i would feel in 2024 our understanding and appreciation for what deserves to be recognized in animation as being quality and unpar with live action stuff would be broader

you would hope in 2024 people would have heard of some other, you know, for the brief time when the creator of BoJack Horseman was very involved in the WGA, I think that's when BoJack could get nominations. But now there's no more BoJack episodes to nominate, so it doesn't get involved. And I think of this because we do the Talking of the Hill miniseries on our Patreon. It won one Emmy and never won a Writers Guild Award. It is so under awarded for being such an amazing show. And then we have The Simpsons winning Emmys over and over and over and clogging up the WGA Awards, frankly. It's a real damn shame. I feel for The Simpsons in the way that if they were to have to compete in the live action and disqualify themselves from the animation section of the Emmys,

then they would never get nominated for an Emmy either anyway, even when they had good seasons, like they wouldn't be nominated. So they want to win Emmys. Who doesn't want to win awards, you know? But it's like, I feel like they should at least like every other year, they just say like, you know, we won't be in the Emmy category this year. Like somebody else's chance. This episode is actually inspired

by someone who is even less likable than Homer in this episode, a little guy we all love named Rudy Giuliani. And because it happened right before 9-11, nobody remembers it. Yes, yeah, Rudy Giuliani,

before he became America's mayor, days before he became America's mayor, he was going through a ugly divorce. I should have looked this up. If this was his cousin, he was divorcing or a different partner of his. But the important thing is that when he was going through a divorce, he then moved in with a gay friend of his and his partner, moved in with him.

LA News story on it was like, at Giuliani's new residence, the will say his his and his and that new story is published on September 2nd 2001 and I went so this is the second wife he had already divorced his attractive second cousin ah okay good so is Donna Hanover the cousin or the second wife uh second wife okay okay I remember Donna Hanover from making jokes about her on Saturday Night Live and then I think she she's the one who's an actress, right? Has to be to marry him. Yeah, I'm not sure.

Yeah, I think if I remember correctly, she's in private parts randomly. Yes, she is an actress. And she is in a lot of odd choices here, like Superstar, Ally McBeal, and The People vs. Larry Flint. I'm not seeing private parts, though. Maybe it's people versus larry flint that i'm thinking of because i remember i had this moment of seeing either of those movies when netflix became a thing i mean like i think that's like a lady that rudy giuliani divorced but okay anyway but he had a third wife and because he's looking more

and more like gollum as the years go on i don't think there's a fourth one in store for him no he's done hey there's a lot of crazy ladies out there who yeah that's true well to hear the giuliani thing i was like wow i completely forgot this piece of news about this guy and it's also funny to hear gene talk about it on the commentary uh which was recorded in like 2011 i think it was or 2010 and he's saying like on the last snl june 01 they're have a whole sketch mocking giuliani for this type of thing and then when they come back for the first one after 9-11 it's it's they are talking about how giuliani is the greatest man who ever lived and he's hosting the show basically and how aljean said boy what a difference things make and i was like you have no fucking clue aljean of 2010 you don't know

though i also saw as a follow-up to that news in 2011 the two men who he was living with were going to get married and they are i believe they did get married and they wanted giuliani to officiate the wedding he said he would do it if it happened. And then he backed out of it for political reasons. And they were taking him to task for that. That's so interesting because the next Gay Simpsons episode is there's something about marrying, which is the gay marriage episode. But yeah, interesting. What a fun timeline to live in.

And this episode has a ton of preamble stuff, including a guest that they wanted to be on the show but said no. And that guy is Harvey Fierstein. Yeah, but you guys say Harvey Fierstein. Harvey Fierstein. This comes directly from the Simpsons, an uncensored, unauthorized history book where he is directly interviewed and quoted about this episode and about his previous appearance, which, if you don't know, he played Carl homer's perfect assistant in uh simpson and delilah firestein recounts there that he was asked to come back for this episode and uh well i have a few quotes here carl sets him up with a pair of gay men all they needed me for was to introduce him to these gay guys but the script was basically

just a lot of very clever gay jokes and that wasn't that simpsons twist jim brooks and matt grating and those writers have always added an extra something beneath the surface and it just wasn't there then he described some of the jokes and i said anybody could do this you're the fucking simpsons do something we've never seen before and then he actually had a great pitch for like well wait yeah you should have listened to this pitch and done this episode he has two good pitches one why doesn't homer just move in with carl and his partner why are we doing like these new characters why is carl doing the handoff and then he also felt that he was being like asked to do it as like some sort of stamp

of approval because it was just a bunch of cliches as he says and then his other pitch was how about instead homer moves in with a gay couple who are both raising kids and then homer in a clever twist learns family values from two gay men wouldn't that be interesting and that's much better oh my gosh i love that yeah and uh one more quote from feierstein brooks offered to set him up with one of our head writers, quote unquote. But then he said that was the last he heard from them. So, yeah. And then they instead decided that Homer would just see a magical box, a newspaper box that would direct him to these guys.

So that's interesting. When we did our research for this the first time, the version of the story I heard comes from Warburton, who I think was on one of the late night talk shows. I don't know why. I think maybe everyone who was nominated for Emmys was on Letterman or something. Maybe Letterman was hosting the Emmys that year. I don't really remember. His version of it is a little bit more damning from Harvey. Is it Firestein or Firestein?

Because I actually incorrectly advised Glenn that it was Firestein, and you guys are saying Steen, and now I'm like- No, I'm saying Steen. It's Steen. I'm just thinking of how John Lovitz goes, Harvey Firestein, which I don't know how accurate he's being with his insulting impersonation. Right. That makes sense.

Okay. Let's just call him Harvey. Harvey. Harvey. So in the writer's remembrance of how this went, they sent it off to Harvey and he was very critical and kind of insulting about it. And he felt very humbled by this negative evaluation of the script and went back and revised it on his own and went out to someone else. He didn't recount all those extra details that you had, but he didn't. He felt it seemed like he felt a little stung by Harvey's rejection of it.

I mean, Bob, you had a good theory that like they were probably doing this partially because they had just done the commentary for season two. Yeah. When Al Jean returns in season 13, we're seeing a lot of sequel episodes, returning characters. And I think it's a result of him sitting down and looking at his old work from 10 to 15 years ago and thinking, oh, let's bring this guy back. He was cool. And we'll keep seeing that throughout the next few years. But this was one idea that didn't quite work out because it was a little thoughtless. Yeah.

I mean, if I'm being as charitable as possible to the Simpsons writers, maybe they thought like, well, it'd be fun to show all the progress we've made to have on our first gay guest star we ever had back for this new thing about the modern era of gay uh television and comedy writing and all that but yeah i mean to read those quotes from harvey's interview for for that book i was just like oh yeah you're uh everybody forgets he's a brilliant writer

and his idea was so much better and i wish they'd have listened to him i mean totally get why he thinks he was being perhaps used as a stamp of approval for a bunch of cliches as well. I could see that. I mean, if it's going to be a gay episode, maybe don't have the gay character show up after 10 minutes into the episode. Yeah. Yeah, I realize this is how The Simpsons works in this era. But, like, again, from having covered more recent episodes of The Simpsons and still watching The Simpsons, like, you could have gotten Homer to gay town in, in like the first minute if you really wanted to have this be an exploration of like the gay bride what about the puzzles the puzzle and i'm someone who will defend the puzzle as like a good like metaphor

for what's going on in this episode but it doesn't need 10 minutes to set up yeah i'm actually i'm looking at frankiak and i'm looking at homer's phobia again a much better episode and john waters character appears at two minutes and 30 seconds into the episode is and he's actually a person yeah yeah i don't think you're he has you know what his job is you have a idea of his life outside of the simpsons and you don't get that for grady and julio in this episode at all and so in the gamerhood they explore is i feel like more fully featured and not just like wall-to-wall jokes right though also of course we we uh we invite you guys on because you you too you have an impact on the uh the legacy of this episode i would say but i guess we'll get into that later okay

the sentence will be right back. One, two, three. Critics are calling Oliver Bean an outrageous coming-of-age comedy. Up until this point, I've only seen one naked woman in my life. Sorry, Grandma. It's the sort of show that defines Fox. Praise yourself. Here comes the heat. Finally, a TV series that gets nostalgia right. I'll bring back my body to me.

I'm freaking curious. Oliver Bean, the new hit comedy. Sunday after The Simpsons on Fox. How we use electricity can be smarter, cleaner and greener. At Electric Ireland, we can help guide you there. You see, our new Net Zero Hub has all you need to know about smart meter plans, EV tariffs, solar panels and much more. Making your usage clearer, your trips greener,

your home cozier and your world brighter. Find our Net Zero Hub at electricireland.ie. Whether you're enjoying this with or without a big pitcher of margaritas, we thank you for listening, and we have a big time thank you to our guests this week, Drew Mackey and Glenn Lakin from the Gayest Episode Ever podcast. If you're not a listener to that yet, you definitely should be because they are some of the best TV historians out there going deep into all of the times LGBTQ plus characters appeared on American TV shows. And they're on Patreon, too. Check out all the cool stuff Drew and Glenn do on Gayest Episode Ever.

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$10 and up subscribers there get all the five dollar things and then they get our monthly what a cartoon movie podcast me and bob going crazy in depth into an animated feature film just like we do an episode of the simpsons last month we covered the very not good but lots of fun to talk about disney's chicken little from 2005 their crappy attempt to make a shrek and this month if you're a fan of the 90s, I think you'll really enjoy us keeping our April tradition alive of covering a live-action film, this time 1990s Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, which has a very interesting history behind its surprising success. Over six years of What a Cartoon Movie back catalog are yours. If you become a $10 and up subscriber at

patreon.com slash talking simpsons, we have covered over 200 hours of what a cartoon movies in addition all the other stuff things like akira a goofy movie spider-man into the spider-verse beavis and butthead do the universe and even our longest podcast ever six and a half hours about who framed roger rabbit you need to see it all for yourself at patreon.com slash talking simpsons today it is so easy to sign up at Patreon and get those podcasts. The episode begins after a clever couch gag and follows the rules of when you fry something put the salt on quick so it sticks on to the the seasoning stays on it very soon after

you flash fry it this episode begins with a joke about homer being a mean drunk it's okay this episode is about ignoring alcoholism is what it really is about and why do they not embrace that more like why is that the secret it appears in every act except they won't actually deal with it right and even if you're gonna use this as the exploration of gay life there's a way to make that story happen like alongside the exploration of gay life because drinking is such a big part of gay culture that maybe homer can be like oh i thought i drank a lot until i met you guys jesus and that could have set him straight that would have even been better but uh yeah they didn't they don't do that or moving in with gay men who are sober now and that's why they maybe have a relationship again we don't really know

what grady and julio's deal is but uh yeah are grady and julio together it's not clear we the episode does not give us a clear answer one way or the other on the commentary scott thompson says he thinks they are a couple and then that was his read on it but yeah I wonder that too it seems like Scott should know it seems like someone should know someone who made the episode should be clear whether these characters are just platonic roommates like me and Glenn or married like me and Glenn aren't

to be clear yeah I was going to propose on podcast but I guess not but then it's time for the family to pull out the puzzles. I wonder what Mom came up with for this week's Family Wednesday. I hope it's as fun as Pictionary was last week. Dad, we weren't playing Pictionary.

That was an intervention to stop your drinking. What? Are you sure? Oh, that takes me back. Here it is. This week's family activity. Oh, a jigsaw puzzle. Concert in Golden Gate Park.

Ages 8 to 80. We know when we're not wanted. The box says it's the perfect way to spend the day. And why would a box lie to a person? I love that. That's a great line. That's a very good bar track. Yeah, sort of like, why would the fruit punch advisory board lie to us?

I do want to point out the puzzle is from Oprah's Puzzle Club, which is a parody of Oprah's Book Club, which began in 1996. It ended when her show went off the air in 2011. It came back sporadically as an online thing. Oprah's Book Club, which began in 1996. It ended when her show went off the air in 2011. It came back sporadically as an online thing. It was recently an Apple TV Plus show, which means no one knows it exists. But it was very expensive to make, I would assume. Yeah, I assume so. So, yeah, I mean, we start the episode with, like, Homer had an intervention,

and the kids drew a Pictionary-style drawing of how upset they were at his drinking. And he just drinks and laughs it off. I was like, OK, there's your first joke that Homer is an alcoholic. And that is the problem. Also talking about problems. I wish they got to talk more. But the commentary is so full of guest stars that obviously the animators who are there, Mark Kirkland and david silverman barely get to talk right but yardley smith at least that's like boy that looks hard to draw the um all of these puzzle pieces and he goes like yes it was very tedious yeah it sounds like a nightmare and this isn't an hd

either so it's like how reading the instruction of thousands of puzzle pieces fall out of a box oh yeah it's like oh i keep thinking about king of the hill but we we've been covering the series for the first three years and it was a funny joke that peggy was really into boggle but they do one boggle episode and you realize they have to animate 16 cubes inside of another cube which is why you don't actually see peggy playing boggle very much i think the director's protested writing for an animated show is weird the things you get pushback on from animators and production like they're fine with like complicated cars and monsters and it's like okay well this episode has a whiteboard and it's like oh sorry we we can't do a whiteboard it's like you mean you

can't do a whiteboard it's like so that could just can you just tape things to a wall i'm like okay that reminds me like i'm playing this is like a shortcut that every game uses but i just played So can you just tape things to a wall? I'm like, okay. That reminds me, like, I'm playing, this is like a shortcut that every game uses, but I just played through Final Fantasy XVI and it has, you know, stunning production values. It probably costs like $300 million to make. But if a character hands a character an object, it happens out of frame every time.

I was just thinking that playing Final Fantasy VII Rebirth because early in the game that won't this is not even a spoiler but basically you put something on a character an npc's head like you put a like let's say a hat on their head but they make sure to like they put their head just out of frame and then pull their head back into the frame in a new shot with with a thing on their head this is when you go online to complain that Cloud isn't wet enough. I saw that Twitter thread and I was like, you are so horny. Isn't wet enough? Yeah, the guy's complaining that Cloud jumps into a river

and gets out of it and he's not dripping wet. He's like, this is 2024 and this is a PS5. We should see Cloud soaking wet. Wow. Or dripping wet. I feel like dripping wet was... I missed this but i 100 believe that this complaint happened that makes sense but yeah the family is building a

needlessly complicated puzzle also i mean when they say tds work just of a giant pile of puzzle pieces which seems like a pain in the ass they also are told draw a huge like photograph of thousands of people at a concert in golden gate park, that also seems like a pain in the ass. I was most bothered that they're doing the puzzle on the carpeting, which feels really hard to do. Well, later they move it outside of their backyard for no reason. Yeah, because grass is easier than carpet. Well, otherwise they can't make Flanders have that joke.

Yeah, that's true. There are some good putting together a puzzle observational jokes where, especially in terms of how you are categorizing certain things with your own method. Yeah, yeah. I like that. I like Homer separating Chinese guy from goose. That's fun, too. Like my my family and my family.

I mean, my mom and my brother, my father did not do fun things, but we would do puzzles from time to time, but it had to stop when I was about 13 because we got cats and cats do not appreciate that puzzles should stay in one place for for a few days as you build it over time. Right. That makes sense. My family would not have been done with that shit. There's just like I understand this is a family activity for some people, but not my family. My family would have hated it and would not have cooperated. And honestly, we had TV and video games and stuff. Like this is like old timey activities for like when people still watched parades and stuff. It's not the way my family ever worked. I was just looking off screen

because I just remembered I was gifted a Simpsons puzzle from my mom of, it's the poster of the hundreds of Springfieldians in one thing. I was like, boy, I was just thinking that's probably a very difficult puzzle too. Yeah, a lot of yellow. And yes, it's preferable though

to a rock tumbler from Milhouse. I don't know. I love a rock tumbler. I really want a rock tumbler. I think Milhouse and I would have been great friends growing up, which maybe scares me a little bit, but oh well. I was interested in rock tumblers as a kid

until I realized the practicality of them and how they actually worked, where you just leave them in a room that you can't hear for weeks and you come back and things are shiny. And I didn't know how that worked. It seems intentional that when they are realizing they are staying up late, that it's the clock could have any late time. It's 420. I feel like somebody's having a little fun there. Yeah. I love marge's reaction like we gotta get you kids some coffee like not we gotta get you kids to bed we gotta

get you kids that's fun it's a good joke and it's a wednesday so i guess it's summer or they're just not going to school no barcos yeah yeah yeah so what were they doing off on a wednesday they were just that obsessed with the puzzles they kept the kids up all night doing it like or the or it started on a weekend and they've continued all the way to the middle of the week no it started on a wednesday they called it like family wednesday oh weird yes bart's sorting it at school even which nelson thinks that bart is poorer than him because he's eating puzzle pieces apparently um while he eats drywall which is above cardboard in uh I guess, health or money. And then we have another good joke, or I like this joke. This Lenny Carlson gives me a chuckle.

Oh, me too. Hey, kids. We're worried about your dad. He ain't been to work for a week. What's he doing now? Hey, is he a rodeo clown? Is he poochy again? He's working on a jigsaw puzzle.

I guess he's done with all the fun stuff. Now, let's see. This is either an old coconut or Tom Hayden. Gee, Homer, that's super. But, uh, have you thought about coming back to work? Ah! Hey, Homer,

what's with the deranged look? Ah! Ow! My eye! I'm not supposed to get jigs in it! karma what's with the deranged look i like that lenny and carl show up to say this episode uh puzzles are not as fun as other fun stories we've done his first act like i think he's out of ideas we've seen all the good ones was that was that the comment we've seen all the good ones yeah he's done with all the fun stuff yeah i love i love i love how lenny says is he poochy again it is so cute when the show uh 21 years ago basically says we're kind of done with this idea but then they have to generate uh many many more and by the way uh homer says it's either an old coconut or tom hayden tom hayden was a leftist activist and a member of the california state assembly and later the California State Senate.

And of course, he was played by Eddie Redmayne in the Aaron Sorkin film, The Trial of the Chicago 7. And if you were listening to Leftist Podcast in the fall of 2020, you definitely heard about this movie because I think by law, they were all obligated to make an episode about this movie. Yep. So I looked up pictures of him. He's a decent looking guy. He was married to Janea um i don't understand why homer can't tell the difference between him and an old coconut it's not a mean enough i feel like they'd have a an uglier person they'd say is an old coconut i mean we got it we got a good ugly joke coming up real soon oh yes yeah that's true i also it's like they remember they like jokes about putting things in lenny's eye because he he last i think the last time they did this joke was when i'm not supposed to get pudding in it from the joke monkey episode

prank monkey episode two seasons ago it started with the spring in his eye and then it escalated to pudding then then a coin fell into his head which was not related to his eye same region but yeah yeah but yeah i also like the drawing of lenny as a puzzle piece as he's being smashed in but they finish building it they take it outside this is when ned points out that they're missing a piece homer replies you're missing one wife and i just love how ned goes like i walked into that one this is the line that makes me laugh it's extremely mean and it is nonetheless extremely funny and personally personally, I have a friend who got divorced. And there was a situation where he's like, you're missing a blank. And this line

popped into my head, but it was really soon after his divorce. And I was like, I shouldn't do that. And I didn't. And it's remarkable self restraint, because it would have been really funny, but really mean. But this is where I think the puzzle storyline justifies itself being in the episode, because this puzzle is making them all so happy until flanders says oh there's a piece missing which is what's going to happen with homer and marge's marriage in the next scene when like you know there's a problem that homer didn't know was there and it's only when it's pointed out to him through this letter that it becomes a real problem for him but it's not a problem because it didn't affect him for these 10 years that's what we call in our podcast a reach around. Glennon's really good at reach arounds.

Hey. Also, they bring up Schubert's Unfinished Symphony, which was last seen in Bart the Daredevil. That's the only reason I know about it because of another Simpsons joke. More jokes about the characters going through the motions where they have to come up with three jokes and Bart

can't think of a third one. Yes. I got nothing. It reminds me of uh in the not good africa episode where bart also says like well i haven't said anything in a while like he does a bad joke and he's like i haven't said anything in a while you know also to to rewind slightly as a recovering view askew fan even in 2003 i was like wow they they referenced silent bob on the simpsons that is strange yes yeah oh and they reference uh curly's gold which i actually had seen the ending of that movie and the ending is important because uh you know homer would have learned that curly's gold was real

despite appearing to be fake at the the fake climax of the movie, then he learns from Curly's twin brother that it actually was real gold. You know, I have seen, I saw all of City Slickers 2 in theaters. I have not actually seen City Slickers 1. This may surprise you. It's a better film. But it doesn't have John Lovitz, does it?

No, who does he replace? Who's in the first movie that gets replaced in the second one? Bruno Kirby? Maybe that's it i feel like one of the main characters drops out and it's not jack pounds even though he dies um it's someone else who's like no i don't need to do the sequel find someone else and i think it's john lovitz or i think it's bruno kirby and then john lovitz is in the second one yeah so yeah they they go head off to look for the missing puzzle piece bart finds a dead hamster uh then comes a gerbil secret gerbil different different animal oh i'm so sorry i know i had gerbils and hamsters growing up and they are very different yeah this also feels like a gay reach around uh joke to be made

here with the gerbil uh but oh no if you let it die you've done something wrong um but this is where there is a secret deleted scene on the dv DVD, which you do see two seconds of it in the credits. So as they're looking for the puzzle piece, Marge thinks, is it under the refrigerator? And so then Marge talks herself into thinking the puzzle piece is her child. And that gives her superhuman strength to pick it up. And then Lisa doesn't see it under there. So she said, so Marge asks her to put a rag on her, under her foot.

So she can at least clean under the fridge while she's holding it up. And that scene is over the ending credits, right? Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for making sense of that. I was going to ask that at the end of the episode, but you guys,

you guys did your homework. I moved the cursor over the screen on the DVD menu and found the secret Kodos logo that means a secret deleted scene. So, okay, then Homer opens up the closet in his bedroom. You see the Mr. Plow jacket. We see the Pin Pals one, which, mm-mm, because Homer's phobia showed that Marge gave that away and that John was wearing it. That should not be in their closet. Yeah. You know what? Yeah, he could have gotten multiples of those.

Let's say. Okay. Well, theoretically, the shirt that John wears could have been one of the other three pen pals shirt, but it's very clear in that episode that like Marge is gave it away and didn't tell Homer about it. I her reaction to it. I'm going to have to pull it up on Frankie act, but I do believe

the Homer monogram is on the chest of the shirt too, I think. This episode just kind of doesn't acknowledge that John exists in a number of ways because it seems like he should have showed up or maybe they couldn't have got John Waters to come back and do a voice, but he could have been a background character. Or Homer could have mentioned John because he has that remark about old-fashioned prejudices, but then he gets over them very, very quickly. This episode kind of just skips over Homer's phobia even existing, which I guess it has to.

And, you know, seeing the Mr. Plow and the pen pals there reminds me of how on the current season of Simpsons, the background artists just draw in all of these jokes everywhere. Like if you see a background that does not have a reference to an old episode in it, you're like, oh, that background artist was lazy.

It's overwhelming. It doesn't make for a better looking show. But this is when. OK, so as Al Jean said, Homer's in the right when he's mad in this episode. Is he? Because he breaks into Marge's sealed memory box, first of all, which is like, no, this is her private stuff, Homer. It's sealed for a reason. And obviously it's sealed, so it's very unlikely that the puzzle piece would be in there.

So he doesn't even have that excuse. Nope. Yeah, this is strike one. Yeah. So as Homer is going through it, he looks at a few things, which includes the first concert they ever went to, which, you know, what, in 1989, 15 years after they started dating in 1974 is when they go to see the Rolling Stones in 1989 for their first concert. I think not. Hey, I'm happy to report that as of this recording in March of 2024, they are about to embark on their 2024 tour, the Rolling Stones. This could be your last chance i wanted to look that up

too and when i went to the real page for it it said it was sponsored by the aarp and i was like okay i'm on a joke page this is a joke but no no it is for real sponsored by the aarp i was looking who has the cheapest tickets uh around it over our three places to see it you guys in los angeles can see them for 70 on july 10th which is about as cheap as it gets not going to but sounds like a great great price oh there's a lot of things i have to spend 70 on it's not that but thank you henry you're not reporting where these 70 seats are are they are they outside the venue they are as far back in sofi stadium as is possible to sit okay that's really far back. Meanwhile, Bob, for you to sit in the farthest back seat, it's 196 Canadian.

Wow. That probably works out to like 80 real dollars. Yeah. Bob, you can't call them real dollars still. You're going to get in trouble if you keep saying that. Hey, the queen's not listening. She's dead. That means she's listening even more.

Yeah. She knows everything. Well, by the time this publishes, the king could be dead. We don't even know. the queen's not listening she's dead that means she's listening even more yeah she does everything well by the time this publishes the king could be dead we don't even know fingers crossed uh but so yes homer also homer has a good joke of like i can't believe how long young we looked in my memory when it flashes back to to the the photos but but i was like no we see it on videotape later but i wanted to say that's why they look like they're 1974 designs instead of their 1980 designs, because this is Homer's memory. But that doesn't work because we see it on physical videotape later. So this is how they looked then for some reason.

Right. I prefer your version. But yeah, this is still the pre-Bart early 80s, but based on what they're playing the the game asteroids this this is two days before she's pregnant with bart so yeah this would make it 1980 yeah yeah i really thought the twist with that was going to be that the symptoms were describing homer's alcohol poisoning but i guess no it was the pregnancy yeah yeah well all right well here let's hear the clip of homer finds an old note from Marge. I can't believe how young we looked in my memory. Hey, there's writing on the back of this.

Dear Homer, I can't believe you're making this the worst night of my life. You leave me sitting here all alone while you play video games with your Neanderthal friends. Mars, come here. Mars, I need both hands for this game. Can you feed me nachos while I play? Why don't you just stop playing? Tell that to the brave crew of the SS Triangle. These two evil rocks. Take that. Homer, I really don't want to feed you.

Come on. You're always saying we should do things as a couple. Oh, this is wonderful! I love you, Atari. I should note, retro gamers are probably aware of this, but this is an accurate depiction of an asteroid's machine, because this was the olden times. They did not figure out joysticks quite yet there's no trackball to move the ship you have a rotate left button a rotate right button a thrust button and a fire button i believe the hyperspace button in the middle so they did their google image search research on this if that even existed at the time i appreciate that uh yeah i was gonna ask bob as

as your retronaut's expertise here, like how accurate this is to the classic game Asteroids. None of us straight orgy could possibly identify with ignoring a partner for video games, rudely. But Marge is right. She's like, we were out on a date, and I totally understand why she is feeling like breaking up with him tonight

because he's being a horrible date. And this is a preview of what would be the rest of their lives. And it is the rest of their lives. But why did she save this? I guess she saved the picture because the picture was the keepsake and she just happened to have written. But she hates Mo. But she just happened to have written the letter on the back of it. So we got thrown in there.

She didn't want to throw it away. Marge is the backer. I don't know i of all my faults with the script for this marge saving this picture is not in the top 20 but you're right it is it is where that she saved the breakup note that she never gave homer and homer drinks so much that he has alcohol poisoning there's good some good vomit animation on him too of his retching as uh i also do love that when he tries to steal the ambulance to go out to ihop and then he's like okay burger king whatever like that's that's a great response to it made me

want onion rings real bad but okay homer if he had alcohol poisoning for like one of the first times he got drunk like you need to stop drinking right now like that's what an actual doctor would say and obviously homer's not going to listen but i feel like your date getting so drunk he nearly dies of alcohol poisoning that's a good reason to write a letter that you're going to break up with that person yeah that's fair yeah we're on we're on team march here yeah yeah and one as we learn later it's it's a very similar lesson to except it's less of a joke about the lesson of complete and utter dependence from a previous episode. See, that was more honest about the horrible relationship they have. That's why it was funny.

It wasn't trying to say, well, this is actually very sweet. And this is where we learned that the puzzle piece was under Maggie's Island the whole time, which I do like that that is resolved. I like they resolved that. Horrifying. Yeah, Marge is also excited that it was under maggie's island not going to the doctor for that then i do think dan has good acting here of pretend like barely holding back his rage and marge like oh isn't that something

uh they sing a parody or basically they do a version of the carly simon james taylor singing mockingbird song except homer is very like flat like yeah the puzzle pieceon james taylor singing mockingbird song except homer is very like flat like yeah the puzzle piece was james taylor i have to imagine david merkin was a consulting producer on this episode that would make sense for sure we just they just had a brand new episode with a very confusing james taylor reference uh where lisa sings a cover to a sad james or her parody i guess a weird al style parody of a james taylor song that is not very famous about her being sad i don't think i've seen this episode yet there's a sims since i haven't seen uh don't admit that i might okay well i'll have to catch up i'm looking at

my notes and re-evaluating like did i make a mistake is marge actually wrong and i cannot find a single bit of evidence to indicate and in fact she is so gentle to homer who has proven himself to be a monster just in these first six minutes yeah and so yeah i mean this sequence here marge being asked to explain it how could it listen to this and see if you could possibly not side with marge did i ruin your life oh is this about that billboard my sisters put on? No, the voters will decide that in November. I was talking about this. Oh, my God.

I forgot all about this. Where did you find it? More like, where didn't I find it? It was practically everywhere. Homer, I'm sorry you saw that, but I was very upset that night. Quit changing the subject. How do you feel about me right now? Well, I love you, of course, but a lot of things you do still drive me crazy.

Do you mean our whole marriage you've just been resenting me behind my back? A little bit, yeah. Fine! I'll go sleep with someone who does appreciate me! Oh, time to repress another memory. me. Time to repress another memory. I am at Disneyland. Disneyland. I do love the voters will decide that in November. That's a great line. Like making a proposition

to get Homer kicked out of Springfield is exactly the sort of bureaucratic villainy that Patty and Selma would enact. And I like that. It's very true to who they are. And put the billboard right outside the window is great, too. But I mean, Marge, as gently as possible, summing up 10 years of thoughtless behavior with a little bit. Yeah, that's as harsh as she gets. And then, you know, just reevaluating my notes when we'll talk about it while Homer is still there. He is just even crueler to her through passive aggression until he leaves so we're witnessing marge's crime was to directly answer homer's question in the nicest way possible yes yeah she's faulted for having an emotional response to his behavior

which a lot of manipulative people love to do yeah that's a very good point and also like again these are the jokes by putting it in here but they still want you to have an honest emotional response to think Homer is right on some level. Because the joke is when she said, where did you find that? It was practically everywhere. No, you broke into her things and found it. Yeah, where didn't I find it is a great response to that. But and she's, you know, asked, hey, you wrote this 10 years ago. Do you still feel this way and

she's she's treating her mistake is treating homer like an adult who can take emotional information like this from her how could she not resent him at least a little bit behind his back because of all the ways he acts all of the time even in this episode yeah it's it's nice writing for marge where she gets emotional honesty and they put out like a nuanced take on marriage. That's a little bit more realistic than what we normally see them having. We're like, yeah, sometimes she's really driven crazy by the stuff Homer does. That's just a fact about how this poor woman would have to live. And Bart is forced to repress some more memories again because Homer is an abusive monster.

I mean, this episode also is about Homer strangled Bart as young as four. We've seen him strangling him as a one-year-old. There's a new strangling in this episode. But we should really be on Homer's side here because Marge went too far. So then in the next scene, Homer is being passive-aggressive and made his own breakfast to be like, you should have made it, which is also like, you should have made it. Like, which also like, fuck you. Like second, but second, he makes a gigantic mess, including it's covered in beer. Like again, it's like,

is your stupid husband too drunk to do it right? And she's like, well, you do have beer cans everywhere. You clearly are drunk right now. Yeah. It's, it's, I don't know, it's 730 in the morning and he's had eight beers based on the amount of cans on the ground. Yeah.

This is my favorite scene in this episode only because like every line is a joke like they don't forget that i mean and homer is wrong he's just wrong i don't see how you could write this episode and this scene in particular where he's drunk in the morning covered the floor in actual eggshells and he's still acting like a giant baby and the eggshells joke is a really good job yeah that's a that's a that's a great setup i love how he says so when is that a rule it's like should always be a rule not to leave eggshells on the ground like you should throw them away properly i mean also i love how marge responds like well this morning isn't a barrel laughs like he's like it is to me there's lots of things where i'm laughing in this episode but if the court were supposed

to think marge needs to apologize to homer it's just wrong that's right though also showing you that this is a season with dana ghoul as a writer on it it's time for the self-harm jokes to to enter the story and uh i'm not made of stone i laughed at this just like i laughed at homer seeing the suicide prevention hotline billboard and going, suicide, eh? Yes. As a possible route that he should take. It was that or dieting, and he goes, suicide, eh? Yeah, but this is, I mean, you hear a suicide on the screen. Yes.

Via the establishing shot of where Kirk Van Houten is currently living. And the single gunshot's enough, but you also have to see a counter go down to zero to show that there has been a suicide now this week at this apartment complex. I wanted to see more of this, and I thought there would be more of this. This is unmind, this material. So exploring the gayborhood could be its own episode.

Homer living with Kirk in the Bastard's Complex could also be a great episode of its own, of Homer realizing how miserable kirk is that is that that would be great actually or it could say hey let's pitch out this is us just pitching better episodes now like like we're harvey uh but that by living there maybe at first he can think oh i have all this freedom as a bachelor again this is great and then learns how much he misses marge and maybe that he actually made a mistake maybe he gets alcohol poisoning again without marge to take care of him and he nearly dies and he realizes oh i'm a huge fuck up and need her and that could have happened in the context of living with gay men and that's my pitch for the fix of this is like what a great

if homer is resenting marge for like withholding some sort of feelings for him and thinking that she robbed him of some sort of choice to be with her because of the lack of honesty. Go live with two men who didn't have the option to be married with each other, live their single gay lifestyle and then realize that, oh, this is a grass is greener sort of situation where maybe Grady could have look at Homer and see, oh, you have a happy married life. I wish I could have had that. But no, it's, I don't know. I don't know what they're doing with having Homer leave and see Milhouse's dad and then the gays. I don't know. Lost.

It kills 45 seconds, I guess. There you go. Hey, look, Kirk Van Houten being sad, always funny. I always laugh at him sobbing and saying that now he doesn't even have a doorknob to put a necktie on. Were he to even have sex, which he wouldn't. No doorknob or tie. No.

And then also labeling your food. You guys, as roommates, you guys aren't in the food labeling era, are you? No, I live in the back house, so I have my own refrigerator, which is sad and bachelor-like. I'm not allowed to look at it. No. And my ice actually kills people. I just got a replacement ice maker that was recalled. But the replacement is just sitting on my floor.

I haven't actually replaced it yet. So, Drew, don't go get any ice. I'm good. After some sad divorce men scenes, including also this feels like written by men jokes. And one of the guys crying instead of saying a woman's name is my money. Oh, that's what he's saying. Because like everyone's saying a woman's name. And I couldn't understand that when my money.

That is a very divorced dad joke. Some good alimony humor. Which it was all over Al Jean's critic uh when he was deep in divorce town uh writing the original critic uh then homer is taking a sad walk home which he just did a sad walk like two episodes ago it's another no one episode ago and see though that no it was two whatever but this time homer finds a magical newspaper stand that's not there and i didn't laugh at it the actual presentation of the joke of seeing ned's silhouette but homer's saying stupid flanders and his misleading silhouette

that's a funny yeah but yes homer finds a newspaper box which is we has a ad for uh we put you in your place for a apartment guide cute this is when he sees an ad for like 400 a month and for a three person place in 2003 pretty good deal that's great i would bet you couldn't get that in the castro district back in 2003 surely no yeah i think i think in 2003 in ohio uh my apartment cost like 500 or 600 dollars so and uh yeah i mean and you didn't have to live with any homosexuals yet bob no and we see homer's room the room he gets in this place is really big and really nice so it's not And yeah, I mean, and you didn't have to live with any homosexuals yet, Bob. No. And we see Homer's room.

The room he gets in this place is really big and really nice. So it's not like it's a converted closet or something. Like he has a proper room. This is a pretty sweet setup they got there. So then it was furnished with a bed because he's sitting on a bed. Or is that Grady's bed? I kind of wonder if Grady's like, let's talk in my room. And he's sitting on Grady's bed. Oh, that might make sense, actually. I've got some grady uh theories uh oh good but homer says thank you news box but it's

already vanished because it's been stolen by uh cletus for have a place to keep his spiders homer heads to the gay neighborhood which okay i didn't get the reference to armistead malpa malpin yeah i think it's moppin i think it's the present moppin moppin yeah yeah it's a very sweaty I didn't get the reference to Armistead Maupin. Yeah. I think it's Maupin. I think it's the person Maupin. Maupin, yeah. Yeah, it's a very sweaty reference to the point where they're jokingly congratulating themselves for that reference. And yes, a reference to the gay writer Armistead Maupin, who is the author of the novel series Tales of the City set in San Francisco.

And the newest one, Mona of the Manor, literally comes out the day we're recording this oh i didn't know this he's incredibly prolific it's it's really impressive that there's this entire body of work this whole university built that is very gay and i've never read and uh homer is walking around in this gay uh in a neighborhood that has a lot of gay bookstores for a straight neighborhood which that's a cute line though it's a lesser version of the this lesbian bar doesn't have a fire exit joke much better joke yeah and then he runs into smithers though it's funny to have this in contrast to homer's phobia when smithers runs into the family uh though not homer in homer's phobia he's in the high power dynamic of getting mad at john like he's like i caught you and he's like yeah i know the simpsons so this is your sick mother but here he's ashamed to be seen by homer right and he's dressed gayer than we've ever seen him i think i do i do love those shorts though with the rainbow piping

up the sides and his inline skates yeah though again this shows you how time flies like you know now smithers is just a gay man. Everyone knows he's gay and he's just a fully out character. I have a question. Now, what do we think Fab Abs sells the store that Homer walks by? Because like in the window, it's just like torsos. Is it a clothing store that doesn't really sell clothing? I think they just sell mannequin torsos.

Oh, beautiful. You have to buy those somewhere right no yeah those should at least have like harnesses or mesh shirts on them or something if it needs whatever yeah good question i like homer uh still calls smithers mr smithers um yeah the gay we hear uh homer being called a bear and then uh and then we have a a random guest star which i wouldn't have got he's called a guest star in the credits yeah i'm like wait come on he has is he's the guy who says who's the bear is that the guy he's the he's the second guy he's the darker skinned of the three uh gay men and by the way like good of them to acknowledge like oh like we should have varying

skin tones on our gay population and so one of the three guys we get right off the bat does not white which is something and uh this guest is uh ben shots who was a classmate of al jeans at harvard and a gay activist of that era and you know to today so did a lot of important work uh which means we can forgive him for his acapella group ladies and gentlemen acapella crew they are no whiff and poofs Get ready for Las Vegas style action at BetMGM the king of online casinos Enjoy casino games at your fingertips

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s-i-c-k-s is a okay name for a gay acapella yeah you know not for me i'll say but if you're looking for a drag acapella group that does disney, parodies them, and makes them about Trump, that's probably the best you can do is their performance. I don't see anyone outdoing them at that specific thing. Is that what they do? Yes. Yeah. Don't want to listen to that. Watch the video of their parody of Poor Unfortunate Souls about Trump.

Don't want to do that. You know what? I do want to watch that you know what i do want to watch that on your own time well you guys could even see it live locally because it seems like they mostly perform in the los angeles area that sounds right i'm good thank you thank you i'm good i i also through this bob linked me to a profile done for the harvard crimson about uh about this man and that it's how i learned that um camera goofball jeffrey tubin is also a classmate of him and aljeans yes camera goofball is such a generous way to describe that man

zoom superstar yes yeah it's uh i hope that that remains that tubin remains the the what you call uh exposing yourself to co-workers on a zoom call but for some reason so yeah benjamin shots like he's a uh a classmate of aljean's and i wonder if maybe aljean you know turned to him for unpaid you know uh consultancy of like you know hey you're a gay guy i know how does this read to a gay guy maybe in this that's his thank you or something maybe it's it's not so bad i'm sure his thank you was something. Maybe. It's not so bad. I'm sure his thank you was being accredited guest star who had to get paid and probably got SAG rates. Yeah.

If I was friends with someone who worked on that show and said, do you want to come in to record a single line? And I would say yes in a second, regardless of what the context was, just for the opportunity to do it. Oh, but Drew, you're not friends with anybody who's on The simpsons so i don't know why you'd say that but as as we're recording this in fact this person um texted and said that he's going to record at fox on friday well okay why don't we talk about this because the characters are coming in here let's let's hear the first appearance of two recurring simpsons characters one more more recurring than the other. Homer, before you move in, you should know that Julio and I have an active social life. Me too.

I'm a member of this club where if I eat one more sub sandwich, I get a free sub sandwich. You probably saw the ad where this guy used to be fat, but now he's just ugly. Homer, what Grady is saying is that... How can I put this? Look, we might have a cocktail, say, where all the guests are male.

Are you trying to tell me that you guys are those guys that like guys? That's right, Homer. We're gay. You are? Hmm. Which will win out? My old-fashioned prejudices or the fact that I've already mixed my laundry with yours? I'll have to sleep on it. He's sleeping in the pantry. My spices! I like how effeminately he says my spices and it gives me a chuckle and yes uh why are scott thompson the the one of the big guest stars in this episode scott thompson from kids in the hall and hey check out a or what a cartoon podcast

about kids in the hall that we put out uh a few weeks ago on that on that feed yeah it's uh scott thompson you know one of the first gay comedians i really knew of and like his his stuff on kids in the hall were some of my favorites and it showed me that like oh again i can like gay comedy or even just introducing me to so many gay ideas or concepts that I, as a 14-year-old watching Comedy Central, had no clue about. I didn't know any of these things. So it was a big deal. And again, too, it's getting a gay man to play a major gay character in the show. That was pretty progressive for its time as far as American network television went.

It's something we still struggle to do many times no in the uh in the billy eichner movie bros he has a very funny series of jokes about how he's sick of seeing straight actors play gay roles and getting getting praise for it and even in the casting of that movie has a fun insider joke that straight characters are played by gay actors in it or queer actors harvey firestein has a very funny scene in that too he's the uh the he's the providence b&b owner that they stay at and uh it's uh it's a cute scene he's in and this character um comes back three times for three speaking roles yeah he comes the next episode he comes back and is not even a gay episode necessarily it's just a random episode where grady shows up again and speaks

and i like the idea of gay characters can come back for non-gay episodes they're just part of springfield now that's great so i like that this episode established these two characters and that they don't um siloed to gay episodes like you guys did to us now come on that look well episode was okay that's very straight it's very straight yeah just joking no i know what uh grady in future episodes he would be dating smithers and mr largo and duff man uh he's been with all three of them and i mean and i like hearing on the commentary scott thompson is very uh appreciative of being on the show like he jokes about how uh people don't recognize him for playing the role though then they would think even jokes like you people were

like you'd never do the simpsons they wouldn't have you on he even is thankful of like oh you sent us some good gifts you sent me good gifts too that i've given to my nephews and nieces like so that's very nice i think it's interesting of the two characters they hire the openly gay actor to play the more subdued of the two because we know that scott thompson can do flaming over the top characters because one of his most famous kids in the hall characters was that and he's not doing that he's playing more of a regular guy and that's an interesting thing to do i i like i like that they're not making him you know f, fag it up, if I can say that on this podcast. Sure. Yeah.

No, you can't censor him. And yeah, so this is the introduction of Julio, played by Hank Azaria up until... For now. What's that? For now. For now, yes. But yes, a person that is, let's say, friend of friends of the show, took over the role in the season 32 episode Uncut Femmes. And I'll let Drew or Glenn bring that up.

Well, it's Drew's story. I'm actually going to run to the bathroom while Drew tells his story. Because you could take full credit for it. Okay, so this is my license. This is Glenn saying that I'm just going to go on and on. So when we recorded this episode back in early 2020, I actually mentioned that I was like, yeah, this Julio is a character that would be played by Tony in like any sort of live action thing. So it's interesting that Hank Azaria is playing it

then. And this wasn't my thought process until I started working on my big super cut of every LGBTQ joke on The Simpsons, which went live. I don't even remember like mid pandemic, but in putting that together, I was just seeing Julio again and again. And I texted our friend Tony Rodriguez, who's been a guest on our podcast a number of times. And I was like, you should just voice Julio in The Simpsons. And this was in the era when they were already recasting. I think they'd recast Carl. Alex Dessert joined the show to play Carl. And I think Dr. Hibbert possibly as well.

No, that's Kevin Michael Richardson. Kevin Michael Richardson. carl and i think dr hibbert possibly as well no that's kevin michael richardson kevin michael yeah um and then um they hired an actress of japanese descent to voice comic book guy's wife so this is a trend and this was like happening all over in a bunch of animated stuff you guys have talked about this on the show before i was like you should just find a way to audition to replace julio because i don't think they've recast him yet. And at this point, it is sort of weird that Hank Azaria, who is, I think he's of Spanish descent, but not Cuban like Julio is, voicing this gay Cuban character and essentially doing a Latino stereotype, but also a gay stereotype. Tony can do that gay stereotype from a more honest place. So I encouraged him to make a video and he made the video of himself in character as Julio and put it on Twitter. And

that was around the time my video went public. So the video got the attention of the Simpsons staff. And in the corresponding episode we did, it's one of the later gay episodes. It's one where Patty has a girlfriend. And it was a really well-written episode of the Simpsons. And we picked that as an example of this is a latter-day Simpsons episode that handles gay characterization really, really well. Not so much like this episode. And in that episode, we discussed that we thought it would make sense if Tony just took over voicing Julio and put a link in the show notes to the video. And in a relatively short amount of time, Tony was contacted by the show asking him to come into audition for Julio. And I think there was another person that was in contention to take over the role as well.

But surprise, surprise, Tony was the one they picked. And Tony's been voicing the character ever since. And it is utterly unreal that something I did had the smallest of impacts on a show I love. Because as you know, being content creators working about pop culture stuff, most of the stuff you just launch out there and it goes nowhere. And this one thing actually did land somewhere and it still breaks my brain that uh we got our friend a job honestly every time we have a writer on a podcast we ask them like can they can you write an episode where bender befriends podcasters or something and they never listen to us so

at least at least make fun of us on a commentary but now there's no more physical media so that's impossible yeah that was incredible to see it play out in real time as friends of yours because yeah we it had been talked about you know everybody had been feeling this this obviously is also related to the yapu thing with with hank azaria too but i mean yeah the julio character that here's how i feel about it also is just a white gay guy but yeah i feel like that it was seen they were really proud to have hank play this character then because the agador character in the birdcage was seen as like oh it's such a funny character he's so funny in the role and of course the birdcage is like seen as like well yeah this is a very progressive

movie and and we're you know good people for even having a gay character show up in something if it's played by a funny guy like Hank and they on the commentary are very clear of like yeah we just drew Agidor and told him to do the voice that's what we wanted and this character would stick around and the utility of this character Julio is to provide a gay joke to any scene because you have all of these characters that fit all of these roles like okay we need there's a crowd scene let's get an old person joke okay it could be abe or hans mollman let's get uh an angry woman joke it could be agnes or manjula or edna but there was no go-to gay character for that to fit that role and i feel

like that's what julio became from that from this point forward yeah snappy snappy comeback day yeah sassy sassy game which smithers never really was no tony has been great in the role every time i i hear uh julio in it it just it's it's great and again it's like i remember loving the birdcage when it first came out again one of the first like gay things i've watched in theaters and saw and like it now when you watch it it does feel like a 1996 movie full of like similar to this move it's similar to this episode you go like man these kids suck they're trying to force their parents into the closet fuck them right can i tell a quick story about the whole tony thing that i think is very funny and i don't think this person will listen to your podcast so i think i'm not going to hurt his feelings by saying this you just hurt their feelings by saying

that yeah um you have you have many listeners of your podcast they're all amazing i was on a coffee So I think I'm not going to hurt his feelings by saying this. You just hurt their feelings by saying that. You have many listeners of your podcast. They're all amazing. I was on a coffee date once with someone who tried to take credit for getting Tony cast on The Simpsons. And he was explaining the story. I was like, I'm sorry, what? And he explained it again. And I was like, I think I have to disagree with you. I think I have to disagree with you that it probably was not you who got Tony cast on The Simpsons.

It was probably Tony. And then if anyone deserves like a supporting player role in this, it's Jesus. And then me. And it was, I've never, I guess I've lived in Hollywood long enough that I had someone take credit for something that like I kind of did like to my face and just be

like, I, I don't, I don't, I don't think he, I don't think you get to do that. So how was the second date? It was the, the coffee went downhill from there, I'll be honest.

But yeah, it was a very, very strange thing to my face. Like, wow, I've never had this opportunity before. But I actually am pretty sure you're wrong. I'm shocked somebody in Hollywood would take credit for something they didn't do. Even if this wasn't a gay episode, just having it be julio's first appearance to have on you know the podcasters who helped change the character of julio's casting like is uh that's reason enough to have you guys well thank you but do you read julio and grady as a couple the pot the wiki set calls them a couple on the commentary scott thompson is saying like yeah they're a couple

he's mad scott thompson throws out there grady is probably hitting on're a couple he's mad Scott Thompson throws out there Grady is probably hitting on Homer because he's mad that Julio changed his hair color without consulting him which a partner should do or something which I also was like I don't feel like that's good like I feel like you could change my thoughts of the straight man are that an episode from this era from this writing staff would be way less subtle if they were a couple it would be kind of stated outright so that those are my own thoughts. I read them as definitely an open couple or non-committed, or I think maybe Grady could have feelings for Julio. And because at the time, gay marriage is not legal. Maybe, again, this would be a much better episode. But if there

was unrequited feelings, because Julio is just someone who doesn't want to get married, is always going to be single and out. And that would be why Grady would gravitate towards Homer and his situation. So that could be the situation, I think. I think maybe Grady has feelings for Julio. So there are a couple in that way. And Julio seems like the type who would take advantage of those feelings. So in the next episode, there's something about marrying. Julio comes back and he's voiced, but he's marrying someone else. Grady is one of the people who's in line to get married, but he's marrying someone else too. So either the canon is that they broke up after this episode

or they just weren't aware that they were ever supposed to be a couple. Myself, I just don't think there's enough information one way or the other to say and i think that's bad writing it is they should have made it clear one way or the other that these two are a couple or not a couple i'm with bob now of uh yeah when you say when i think of this as 2003 eyes i would think that if they were supposed to be a couple it would have been directly stated and be very obvious in this episode full of obvious statements yeah when i when i view with 2024 eyes i see them as like well they're they could be in like an open deal or that they used to be a couple and they broke up but they're like yeah let's keep this apartment together though right which is a thing which is definitely a thing and if they're a couple that's like a missed

joke opportunity of homer coming in being like there's two bedrooms but you're renting the other one yeah where do you sleep yeah like well we we share a bed together i just don't know if writers from this era would have the imagination to even think about the possibility of an open relationship true also when i think about them trying to write to fight against stereotypes is that kind of writing to out of fear or or or trying to be nice that they wouldn't want to write grady as like a guy who would kiss homer while still dating julio because then he would be an evil uh gay guy who's fucking around everywhere instead like i i think for grady to make his move later then he should not be involved with julio he should just be a single man i mean he still looks like a predator

yeah like dating julia or not. Yeah. Especially because like, I mean, we'll talk about it, but like when that scene happens, it kind of takes you by surprise in a way that like, I don't think it should because it seems like, you know, there should be evidence leading up to the fact that like Grady has feelings for Homer, but we really don't get that until that one scene. So it just comes off as sort of predatory, honestly. Maybe I'm fishing for evidence, but I see the evidence of Grady's interest in Homer from starting at breakfast. Like when Julio says his breakfast looks like crap, Homer compliments his breakfast. And Grady's like, I like making breakfast for you, Homer.

Yeah. You know, my 2003 eyes, it's very much that that plot element that I don't think we do anymore, where it's like if you befriend a gay person of the same gender, there's a chance they're going to try to turn you and you have to run away. Yeah, I mean, that's true. Well, somebody's admitting it finally. I think that breakfast is just more evidence of not necessarily attraction to Homer, but something they could have given Grady of like longing for some sort of domestic lifestyle that he's been robbed of because he is a gay man in 2003 I was just thinking of like similar plots

from this era where there's the first Daria movie where Jane goes to summer camp and meets the predatory lesbian who she has to flee from instead of just saying oh here's a fun predatory bisexual she's a fun what's that

she's a predatory bisexual I apologize I haven't seen that in a while but in any case it's like it's not an expression of like oh yeah Jane makes a queer friend and learns about her it's like no Jane makes a queer friend but it's all a trap run Jane run yeah

it's a really negative stereotype and I don't think we do that anymore. And it's one of the pitfalls this episode falls into. Unfortunately, there are so many gay people. We just like strips off and walks around naked, which it's like I obviously we're looking at this too closely. So one, Homer getting naked around these guys like when they it's just so weird how great he says. And with a male roommate, we can walk around naked. It's like I feel like he would like he'd have different standards. He's that line is written like a straight guy saying a gay guy to me and then second wouldn't they be less worried about walking around naked if they were with a female roommate who they are not at all attracted to i think i think it's weird i mean so like glenn and i used to live in a house together we are

very good friends we are platonic friends though and we did not walk around naked that's just not something you do it's weird that anyone would feel comfortable walking around naked in front of someone they barely know that there's not some sort of sexual vibe with. I don't completely get it. Well, I mean, I had a very close friend who did walk around naked around me. And then when I developed feelings, that friendship ended. So yeah, it does complicate things. Well, there you go. But then I also think this plays interestingly into Henry, your personal reading of the episode of The Simpsons releases the president and adult Bart lives with Ralph and they're walking around naked. And we both read those characters as like, are they supposed to be together? And it kind of seems like they are.

So but like that only makes sense if they're in a relationship together and not. I don't know. It's it's it's really, really fucking weird. Well, me and your headcanons drew in that in that episode is that I think it's that Ralph and Bart used to date but still live together and that's why they're like yeah walk around naked who cares but like and that that would also explain why Bart knows how Rod and Todd are gay because they are all in the same circle but right well you know we should scrub back a little to someone we can all agree upon and that's jared from subway now this once was a very mean joke the guy who used to be fat but now he's just ugly now it's not mean enough

but whenever from i mean before before the trouble started whenever i saw him in an ad i always thought of this line because it was just it's just so perfectly cruel it's so mean and it's so funny this is uh whoever came up with this line deserves a raise i think it is one of the meanest things this show has ever done and now we can laugh about it openly we don't have to feel bad about it anymore that's great the only thing meaner is a joke about bill maher that happened a few seasons back where uh somebody says isn't that the guy who caused all those suicides and marge goes murder suicides that's a great yeah that's a good line but yeah no i think uh homer homer at breakfast with the guys i like too that this is a very 2003 joke that you don't live in new york but you read the new york times because you're very informed

and now that's like it is a print media world that basically i think was starting to die in 03 when this episode aired even but i love that to be if you're a real person in the simpsons world you would hate the springfield shopper because all of the headlines are jokes it's such a great gag the relaxed roommate nudity i don't know if straight guys do this no that's the thing but i know um they do in porn right okay good right but i feel like if that the the girl who writes mother earth as her recommendation that sounds like a crunchy hippie girl who would not care if her gay roommates walked around naked right that makes sense yeah but yeah then uh clearly grady likes what he sees on homer though that's what i'm gonna say when when homer uh

strips off we we cut to uh lisa being sad and uh because she has to read homer though that's what i'm gonna say when when homer uh strips off we we cut to uh lisa being sad and uh because she has to read homer nancy drew before bed which she still does over the phone and this this book she's reading is uh was in the mansion family where it was the controversial nancy drew book and she opens it and goes so many swears that's right and so she kept it from the mansion family she stole it from mr burns um if we're past are we past breakfast uh the gay breakfast now we're still on the breakfast okay um i just want to call attention to the phrase picky ricardo which i love so much and i need to use this for tony literally every time he's fussy about something because

there is not a better coinage for uh your picky cuban friend uh and then uh after homer gets some nancy drew red to him where he thinks she might die then then we get a parody of the pretty woman dress-up segment though i mean there's tons of fashion segments like this but aljean specifically calls out the pretty woman one and i guess this was the gayest thing they could think of to play which that was the stereotype at in 2003 if you ask someone well who's the gayest band you might say this pet shop boys yeah i'd say that that's uh it's up there i don't know what would you guys pick a different uh a different band in 2003 uh i mean so i looked in the pet shop toys only one of them's openly gay the other one is not necessarily i couldn't figure out what his sexuality is so i probably would

have come out if he actually was gay b-52s did b-52s already show up in the slap episode have you ever seen yes i guess the village people but that's i mean that feels a little too obvious what was that australian duo where one of them's gay no they had one hit in the late 90s early 2000s i believe there's a pet shop boy stand in jojo's bizarre adventure it's a bird right it's the bird named pet shop that's right yeah but uh but no i mean pet shop boys is like i mean to americans i think you have to be a little more in the know to her they were huge in in england and you're in the uk and europe but i mean they're known here uh though it's funny two of the pet shop boys i think

of them because there was we a british consultant came in to a job i worked at who was to teach us time management and he seemed extremely gay the second i met him and he is very uh gay british gen xer and i was like is he but i didn't want to be totally sure and then when it was the first like all right here's's your project for today. And then he plays his Spotify mix and it's Pet Shop Boys was the first song. I was like, all right.

Okay. Got it. Got it. Sometimes when they're British, it can be really hard to tell. Sometimes British overrides it. And you're like, my,

my, my sensors are all screwed up now. But yes, Homer, then as he's dressing, he learns the most important thing that he's not allowed to be fat. That's, that's really his gay makeover. Yeah. He's also not allowed to be poor given his reaction to the,

the a hundred dollar haircut. Yes. I, I, you know, the first time I got a haircut at a gay barbershop in the Castro, I sort of had that reaction to my barber. Cause I was like, okay, look, I get we're, we're both gay here and we're sassy. That thing you just said to me was too mean. You crossed a line here, and I did not come back to that place. I think we can read Homer's reaction to getting his hair cut as a hate crime possibly, but it still makes me laugh. I think the joke is supposed to be that Homer's just extremely cheap, and he'll do it every weekend to get up paying $100 for chopping off two hairs. But it does make me laugh, it is a scalding i mean that barber the barber should definitely call the police and it should be tried as a hate crime so homer comes back home and the kids love their new gay dad dad took us antiquing yeah and along

the way we took photos of interesting doors and gates. Your father sure can be thoughtful. When he wants to be. Marge, please. Let's not fight in front of the kids. Just secretly hate me the way you always have. Hey, I love watching you guys fight. It's my earliest memory. Well, you little...

Dad! Your hands feel so soft. You noticed. I've been using Lancome. Oh, it shows. I haven't had a Strangle That Smooth since I was four. Well, I'd better go, but before I do, Marge, there's something

I want to ask you. Yes, homie? How much do you tip a leg waxer? I need to know by tomorrow. Just go and take your stupid Lhasa Apso with you. I didn't know what Lancome was or Lhasa Apso. Little puppy goo goo looking dog. Lhasa Apso. They're so didn't know what Lancome was or Lhasa Apso. A little puppy goo goo looking dog. Lhasa Apso.

They're so adorable, but I don't like them. No. And I'm telling you. I will say that taking pictures of interesting doors and gates is the most real gay detail in this script. Yeah. That is totally like that is a real life detail. I'm glad someone told them about that. The leg waxing though like we talked about this when we recorded this forever ago but

like i know there was a time when gay men were pressured to wax their chests and backs because those things were not like you that wasn't sexy i think there's a lot more acceptance for that in the gay community now i've never known a gay guy to wax his legs at all no it doesn't yeah that doesn't sound like manscaping i've heard of either no no it's other stuff other other body parts you get the hair a little higher up in the leg but i will i mean i think in the train in the transcript i read that i did know someone who shaved or waxed their legs i can't think of that person now because covet has robbed me of that memory i guess but i will tell all you fellas out there you don't need to be gay to moisturize and

i'm living proof i've got two brands and night, and it helps you age slower. And I'm more into that as I am now in my 40s. You do look very subtle. You have lovely skin for a straight guy, Bob. I'm trying to glow here. The lighting's very good. I wish everyone could see it. Lancome, though, seems like a very expensive moisturizer.

If I were to, it wouldn't be,, they were like 140 bucks I saw. It belongs to Grady and Julio and Homer's just stealing their fancy moisturizer. Well, because I am not that invested in moisturizing, I do use a cheaper brand. I use CeraVe AM and PM, but it's still, it's relatively expensive for like a little bottle. It's like $13, but it will last you like a month or two. That's what I use. Okay, CeraVe, you need to get on the sponsorship we've got two testimonials so all right when when homer and marge are talking here it's like they reset the argument they were having when marge is like oh what he wants to be it's like but he's like he's not improved he's just a gay jerk now or a more like he's a more metrosexual jerk now.

Or he's just a better dad to his kids. He's not he's not any better to Marge. He's done nothing to repair his relationship with Marge. His gayening isn't fixing the problems in their marriage. Those improvement on Bart is just that his hands feel nicer when he's abusing him. Yeah. Right. And, you know, I see no relationship crimes on Marge's part in this scene. None. No. using him yeah right and you know i see no relationship crimes on marge's part in this scene none no but uh but this is where again in a very uh of its era marge explains why marriage is awful mom i know dad cares about you but his feelings are really hurt why don't you just say you're sorry lisa marriage is a beautiful thing but it's also a constant battle for moral superiority, so I can't apologize.

Couldn't you just say you're sorry and not mean it? I do it all the time. I don't think I've ever meant it. Bart, that's not right. Sorry, Mom. See? It's that easy. Hmm. So, how was your visit home? The kids are cool, but Marge is still judging me. Oh, so it's over between you two. Maybe it is.

I used to look at Marge and get the same tingle you guys get when you see Rip Taylor. But now I don't know what's going to happen. Come on, let's dance. So I included that Grady bit there so you can see he goes like, oh, so it's over between. Like, he's fishing. Yeah. So the way Homer's talking about it also makes it seem like this is the experience of like a married man who came out and his kids have come around to it fine. And his wife is being hurt about the fact that he came out.

He just has not come out. So I guess that would lead Grady on to think that like, he's like, Oh, the kids are cool with it. But Marge is being whatever word he says. I guess, I guess that is sort of there, which could have also been an interesting direction for the script of just

playing up the sitcom confusion of, Oh, recently divorced man moves into a gay neighborhood. Like why not just play up the Grady has a misunderstanding that Homer is right. Not gay. Yeah. That could,

that, that would have been a clearer direction also homer is sensuously unbuttoning his top while dancing like i feel like he again i don't blame grady for getting mixed signals at best from from homer here you know i i love the act break but this the end of this scene contains a joke very popular in this era in that women are only gay because of trauma yes yeah it's and that was a very common joke like oh this woman is gay because of men uh because of you know a bad relationship or she saw an ugly man let's say oh like when patty says there goes the last remaining thread of my heterosexuality when home runs by naked yeah yeah like they they did that so first

of all it's one lesbian saying it to like another lesbian. They might be a couple. I should say the woman who's speaking is a rather butch looking lesbian and the woman she's with is a rather feminine looking lesbian. And I'm glad they took the time to realize that like, oh, there's more than one type of queer woman. We're going to put them both together. And that's a nice touch that like a lot of shows wouldn't necessarily bother to do.

Like when Homer has the fire exit joke at the she-she lounge, is that what it's called? They're all pretty butch looking and they mix it up here. And then when Homer's dancing, he's shirtless and dancing and fat and having fun and feeling himself. And there's a big crowd around him and everyone's clapping and they're into it, which is nice because you're right, Henry earlier,

they put Homer in a girdle because you're not like the ideas. You're not allowed to be gay and fat at the same time. But in this scene, it is sort of nice that like Homer is showing off his body and is comfortable with himself and everyone else seems to be into it. Except for these two women, the only one who are really critical of it. But that's a nice moment, at least. Hey, no, it was a big moment for me. The first time I actually felt comfortable enough to be shirtless, like to take off my shirt at a gay club like that was a that was a real mental hang up for me the first time i actually felt comfortable enough to be shirtlit like to take off my shirt at a gay club like that was a that was a real mental hang-up for me and that so in a way this scene of homer you know feels it not as it's not how they meant it but it feels it has a more

strong emotional reaction for me than uh than it did when i first watched it and hadn't been to a gay club yet it's supposed to be a joke that like homer is is it supposed to be a joke i'm actually not sure what the intention is in this scene exactly but again like if if start of this episode had been homer realizing that maybe marge wasn't very physically attracted to him if that was the issue that was revealed to this note then him coming to a gay community and being embraced and seen as a sex object by a bunch of men giving him some sort of second confidence then i could see this storyline being more connected to his issues with marge but right now him living up the gay life with his two new gay friends just feel so disconnected from the issues he's having also margins line definitely

feels like something written by divorced men on a writing staff of marriage is a beautiful thing but it's also a constant battle for moral superiority yeah so you guys listen to the dvd commentary for this one is this the dvd commentary where they recall julie cavner's theory for homer and marge's sex life or is that a different episode oh it's this one she's not on it but i believe she is quoted uh analogy and said oh you know julie always says they have a great sex life and i think he even recalls that at one point julie says that homer has a big schlong schlong on the commentary yeah i think once she she says she says similar stuff like that uh inside the actor studio episode in that famous

one she i believe she says that homer found like a second g spot on her or something like that's a joke she says i mean that is a very interesting headcanon julie kavner but yeah i like it's not the case because it's just what julie kavner says but like uh i like glenn's read of like if homer was feeling that marge was less attracted to him this could fix that but that's that's not the problem this episode sets up unfortunately it would be it would be a fun one to also feel crazy that lisa's like hey look i know his feelings were hurt you should apologize like lisa should not be saying that to marge no no it's like well i know you have nothing to apologize for but you should despair homer's feelings lisa shouldn't say those words let's

trace it maybe bart would say yeah maybe bart would say that let's trace it back. Homer's feelings were hurt because he hurt Marge's feelings and she told him. Yeah. What a bitch. Also, there's another. This is maybe my favorite line in the episode. Just how it's delivered. This quick clip here. I didn't think it was possible, but watching him makes me more lesbian.

Lesbian? This isn't my army reunion you're coming home with me yes colonel yes i like yes colonel that's good but now i mean that guy's hot well and it's and he says yes colonel so it's consensual all right yeah yeah and you know he may be hot but he's stealing valor that makes him even hotter hey he could be he could have been drummed out of the service in the in the don't ask don't tell you know that is true i apologize so i know the wikis are unreliable for information but according to them that's terry w green that is in the commentary too yes yeah i believe it's their

sound editor or at least in this era yeah yeah so he's done voices a few times i think this is the only gay one and i wonder if like either he could just do a gruff voice or how yeah aljean says i think he has a naturally gruff voice so they thought he'd be good for for this uh particular character then we come back and uh scott thompson uh is and he's even writing for the show with this because the scene of saying gay gay gay bye gay when he says gay for pay scott thompson added that and al jean's like i had never heard that term before and but i do this exact thing when i visited you guys and event and have asked like hey is this guy gay is that guy like i've been uh but these are these are things to not say on recorded mediums but uh

yes right we can we can just we can say anything we want you just can bleep it after that's a lot of work i'm uh you know this editor is already working that our editor will hear it and we have to swear them to secrecy but it is fun of like because you would think more people are out than ever these days but there still are some celebrities that you've uh i've been like oh you've you've you've you've heard this person is gay that is that are fun to talk about yes but we won't name him like mcgyver no but i like that thompson added the joke there for it anyway i i also love when it's a conventionally attractive blonde woman on screen that's when he goes bye like he just says like

bye he kind of shouts it i still prefer the version of the joke where I think it was Kent Brockman who thinks he's going off the air. So he's just outing a bunch of celebrities and Homer just has a notepad and is writing down things. That's good too. And we also learned that practically everyone who acted in, produced or even seen a play is gay. We saw a play this weekend. It's absolutely true. A lot of gays. Yeah.

Don't you? This is the side tangent. Isn't one of the theaters you guys live nearby owned by gates mcfadden of uh of star trek fans yes that is a fact i'm very involved with the theater community here in los angeles and only occasionally host star trek related that is so cool i would want to see a play at at that just to say i'd been to gate the gates mcfadden theater we can walk there from my house. Next visit. Next visit. We get another guest star for no good reason.

This wastes time in this episode. And this guy could be in any episode of The Simpsons singing a song. This is part one of the Marge apology. Yes. That cost her thousands of dollars, right? She went into that. But yes, okay, here, I'll just play the clip. He's gay.

He's gay. Gay. Gay. Bye. Gay. Gay for pay. Gay. Tennessee Williams?

But how did he survive in the world of theater? Homer, please. Practically everyone who's acted in, produced, or even seen a play is gay. Uh, Homer, I think you should see this. Only I tried to tell you how I feel, but I can't find the right words. Maybe he can. Weird Al Yankovic! Homer, Marge wrote me about what happened.

And as soon as her check cleared, I was on the first reasonably priced flight here. Did you ever get the parody songs I sent you? Yes. Which one was better? Living La Pizza Loca or Another One Bites the Crust? They were pretty much the same, Homer. Yeah, like you and Alan Sherman. It's Weird Al!

Hooray, yes. I was surprised to see him here. So Weird Al and Yankovic are likely here to promote the upcoming album Poodle Hat, which was a modest hit but i think he truly did not resurface in mainstream pop culture until 2006 is straight out of lynwood that's when i saw people talking about weird al again what was the difference like what was the difference between poodle head and straight out of lynwood that got people talking about i think poodle head did not have a uh single as strong as white and Nerdy with that much mainstream appeal.

And I think that's what made him. That was his biggest single since, I don't know, Amish Paradise. Oh, okay. And me and Bob have seen Weird Al in concert together with our spouses. Yes, yes. We saw him in, I believe, was it June of 2023 or 2022? I think it was 2022. Was it last year?

Yeah, well, whatever year it was, he was just playing his originals, and my favorite original song of his is Nature Trail to Hell, and he played it, so I can die happy. I want to live a little bit longer, though, but still, you know, if it were to happen. The only original I was missing that night was Just One More Minute. That's another of my favorites of his originals, but yeah it's like okay weird al is gonna do the simpsons he wants to do the simpsons he should be a guest star in the simpsons it shouldn't take 14 seasons to have weird al be a guest star in the simpsons he should not be the guest star in the gay episode that is a total waste of weird al yeah well he will come back uh for that 90s show and he was recently in a season 34 couch gag yeah but like

the song that he's singing so okay I know Weird Al from when I used to listen to Dr. Demento when I was a kid and I sort of parted ways with him and then sort of wasn't really aware of like adults who still enjoyed him as much until I started listening to YouTube and then I was like oh like these guys who I have a lot in common with are super into

Weird Al Yankovic I don't think he's my thing anymore and like not to single you out Henry but I actually you're the only gay like these guys who I have a lot in common with are super into Weird Al Yankovic. I don't think he's my thing anymore. And like, not to single you out, Henry, but I, I actually, you're the only gay person I know who really likes Weird Al. Like he's,

I don't think he's gay culture. I think for, I don't, I can't place what he is. He's the opposite of gay culture. And I don't know why. And no, he's not like homophobic or anything.

It's just that like, for some reason, this person's celebrity sphere is like very far away from anything queer. This is the only queer thing he's ever really done. And he's even covering a song that I guess makes sense for the context, this person's celebrity sphere is like very far away from anything queer. This is the only queer thing he's ever really done. And he's even covering a song that I guess makes sense for the context. But like there's a lot of gay songs out there and they probably could have written Homer Marge lyrics to a gayer song. They don't do that here. And it seems very strange.

Yeah, it's an odd choice. It's a parody of the John Cougar 1982 hit Jack and Diane. And apparently Weird Al wanted a parody parody this song 20 years earlier so I pulled out an excerpt of his interview with Nathan Rabin from 2011 by the way Nathan Rabin has been on the show he is the like definitive Weird Al scholar by all of his books about Weird Al but in 2011 he interviewed Al about his career and uh and specifically the song the Buckingham Blues so I will quote uh Al's response to Nathan's question about this song. Quote,

What I remember most about it is it was originally supposed to be a parody. I had written the song as a parody of Jack and Diane by John Cougar Mellencamp. The original was supposed to be little ditty about Chuck and Diane, couple British kids from the palace of Buckingham, and it went on from there. Basically, the same kind of concepts and gags from the blues that i wound up writing but it was a parody john mellencamp at the time was like yeah you know what i'm trying to sell the rights to this song to a movie they're supposed to make a jack and diane movie and i don't want to muck up the deal so i don't want to be doing the parody of course we're all still waiting

for that jack and diane movie to come out but in the meantime i was thinking oh maybe i can just change the melody a little bit you know how people try to get away from royalties like vanilla ice where i'll change one note and claim it's a new composition i tried several iterations of that and it always felt cheap because it's like if you're going to do a parody do a parody and if you're not don't so i totally changed the musical concept and made it a blue song which also worked on a different level so that that's you know that's better than just turning this into a parody. I think it works better to parody a John Cougar song 20 years later than doing it immediately.

I think it made it better. And this is what a nice guy Weird Al is. He asks the artist. He's within his rights to make the parody song, but he wants to be on good terms with the artist. So when they say no, he doesn't do it like let's say lady gaga for instance and uh to drew's question of why do i like weird al it's a not a i wasn't asking why he like i'm perfectly okay with you liking why are you stealing straight question explain your garbage taste well it's it's what i it is what i grew up but like some of the

first things i watched that i thought were funny were weird al's parody music videos like i would see and one of my happiest christmas gifts i got was the vhs tape of all of his videos up until uh the jurassic park song like it's all of them and i like sing i love i've duetted more than once at karaoke with bob christmas at ground zero like i love that song and as i grow older the thing i like about weird al's originals is that they're actually like they can get really dark and it's him talking about like either fantasizing about murdering someone who broke up with him or fantasizing about mass death or planning his own like epic suicide like these are all very dark things he puts in his happy little song or santa going on a spree killing that too yeah so it's uh there's

there's a lot of fun in those songs are also his song about the jungle cruise ride operator who is wishes he was dead and because he was supposed to be a great actor and now he just is the tour guide on the jungle cruise right too real that's way too real but they do they do depict his entire band yeah they do draw them all in there so yeah that's those are the people he's worked with for almost his entire career if you see him live they'll be playing with him and they're all sitting down yep yeah i love that when we saw him live it was like yes they want to be sitting down so do we and that's what and so we're all going to do it and i think they want to be sitting down so do we and that's why and so we're all gonna do it and i think they earned it too not just as a request from from al but also

that as as weird al says on the commentary it's not alf clausen's orchestra backing him up the band is playing the song with him for this scene so they are in the episode that's cool i mean i'm for what it is it's really well done uh it's just confusing why it is in this episode not literally any other episode or why they didn't just give him his whole episode like it would not be weird at all for uh weird al to have his own it would be weird though it would be weird yes uh also if you want to see weird al be a funny comedic actor watch the final season of the comedy bang bang tv show because he's very good in it does he take over for reggie or it was kid cuddy

in between and he took over after kid cuddy because kid cuddy was too busy being a very famous musician that does happen this song though as far as plotting makes no sense it just feels like they're like can we erase four pages and put weird al in here and we'll write a song for him because it also feels like a song they wrote for Weird Al. If you watch Weird Al perform this song at the Hollywood Bowl, you will see that he made better lines for it and wrote it as a full song that is not what you see in the episode. So he still sings the song about Homer and Marge? Yes, but he changes. He has one line of like, they graduated in 1974, which would make them in their 60s now. And like that, he has one line of like they graduated in 1974 which would make them in

their 60s now and like that he has there's better lines okay yeah here i'll just drop in the uh the full the uh the song here which he really march should have asked for more because he just wrote one line of like 40 seconds of a song yeah she didn't get her money. Now here's a song I wrote for you. Little Diddy About Homer and Marge Her heart was as big As his stomach was large Oh yeah, they say love goes on Long after the grilled cheese sandwich is gone

It would take a man of stone with a funny bone of steel to resist that. Would you at least let me take you out on a date? I don't know, date a chick with kids. Dad! Alright, alright. Nice work, Lisa. Thanks, Julio. I love you as a blonde.

Oh, you do? Oh, God, Lisa, if I was an eight-year-old straight boy, I swear to God I'd be still holding your hand right now. But why does Marge need his help to express her feelings? That's not the problem. No, it's not at all. The problem is she expressed her feelings, and Homer punished her for it.

Yeah. This makes so much more sense in a different episode where Homer asks Weird Al to write this song about their relationship for him to apologize. Makes way more sense. After the song is over, Marge asks him on a date. I do love him saying, I don't know, date a chick with kids. That's a good line. Why does Julio change his hair color? Because that's what gays do, Drew.

Is that it? Yeah, that's it. line why does julio change his hair color because that's what gays do drew is that it yeah that's it okay there's a one-off apparently they deleted a line where he said he's going to the barber and is gonna have the barber the hairdresser okay but yeah that that's where the weird thing is on the commentary where scott thompson says his headcanon that grady is mad at julio for changing his hair color without telling him um yeah i don't i don't think i want to be married to scott thompson because it seems like he might have some control issues but okay i think if you've heard his stand-up or or bits his buddy cole i would say there's it's clear he has some relationship problems yeah yep yep though not the same as kevin mcdonald's emotional problem that's one of my favorite lines in the in the in the Hall. I love that. So Homer agrees to go on the date.

This is, again, where I think Grady is trying to mess this up. I think that he's not the one who throws out margaritas. It's Julio. But Grady is, it's also Julio who says, didn't you have to go to your date? I think Julio let Homer miss his date he it could be ruined and then grady can swoop in then why does he say it at all why does he bring up at all that he's late for the date why not just let him miss it completely i mean i understand who says that it's julio who says okay okay still but that doesn't make him less predatory yeah that just makes him more like

calculating about being predatory oh no i'm saying it's a calculated predatory move yes yeah yeah i mean then i guess that's props to the simpsons for creating a gay oh no i'm saying it's a calculated predatory move yes yeah yeah i mean then i guess that's props to the simpsons for creating a gay villain which i'm always asking for more of and i guess i did that so but the real problem here isn't that a gay man tricked him it's that homer drinks a full pitcher of margarita yeah it seems like they all do because like you see their faces reflected in the uh warped empty glasses they they all have good drunk face going on at this point that's a fun drawing kirkland draws fun stuff or him it is kirkland the only animator on this mark kirkland that's why he's the only one credited but there's there's some great drawings here i also feel cheated that i did not get to see henry the six versus spider-man in this episode

what i find strange is whenever i see a missed opportunity for a sign gag it like just screams out at me and this Marge is just going to medieval times it's not a parody of it it has the name medieval times did I miss something yeah that is a whiff you're right maybe they thought if they called it something different the audience wouldn't know what she's supposed to be at right now who here are no other medieval times I? I have. I have. Me too. At the Excalibur in Las Vegas. Ooh, wow. The fancy Excalibur one. Mm-hmm. It was not fancy by the time my family went there. Oh, okay.

I went there in my youth as well as part of a middle school field trip in Florida. What did that teach you? About Medieval Times. We got to see a glass blower there. So there were things. It's not just the performance of the jousting there's other stuff i'm like miss hoover i question the educational value of this get ready for las vegas style action at bet mgm the king of online casinos enjoy casino games at your fingertips with the same vegas strip excitement mgm is famous for when you play classics like mgm grand millions or or popular games like Blackjack, Baccarat, and Roulette. With our ever-growing library of digital slot games, a large selection of online table games,

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Weird, I don't remember saying that part visit dejaden.com care and get insurance that's really big on care did i mention that we care i mean i had a good time you get to eat a bit like a uh guess what it was like a pheasant or something you eat it with your hands like like you would if you were in medieval times. It was fun enough. It was fine. As a child, I was happy to get greasy and then just sit there and not be able to touch my clothes. Put on a paper crown.

No, I mean, have you guys, this did not make you want to drive down to Anaheim and go see medieval times again? No. I live close enough to Disneyland you'd think think i'd go there more often but i don't because that drive i just don't want to have to do that drive as often as possible it's actually not that bad it's a from here because we can just get right on the five this is very entertaining to all your listeners i know but like it's like a 40 minute drive it's fine okay this is turning the snl sketch about California. Yeah. Yeah. Marge is alone at medieval times.

And then again, I do agree with Homer when he says, you know, you do care about sexual preferences if they're a celebrity. That's, that's when it's important. Dish, dish,

dish, dish. Any, anytime I find out a celebrity is in a same sex relationship, I'm like, Ooh, boy, I'm interested now.

I don't care if florence pew is dating zach braff but if she if either of them started dating someone of the same sex then i care wait is she dating zach braff i think they've been broken up but she was oh good yeah um but the line in this like it doesn't matter what someone's sexual preferences are it's like that's a such a 2003 attitude towards it because now it'd be like actually it does matter but we're not supposed to like treat people like differently also the word preference yeah no i mean this uh clearly they didn't get enough sensitivity readers on this or it's 2003 and this is what everybody that's more likely the culprit the year 2003 uh also that joke about grady's shoe closet being a

time a gay time machine that is worthy of sex in the city like there i i chuckled at it though it's not a simpsons joke it's a sex in the city it's not and also the setup for it's kind of awkward because okay so i guess homer says when he realizes he like he's like oh do you gays have some sort of gay time machine so he's so enchanted with gay life that he assumes that gay people have access to technology that straight people don't i guess that makes sense but like you realize that the only reason homer is saying that is to set up this put down that julio does and it's fine but it's a little it's not as uh there there are other lines are set up better in this episode does that make sense is it sweaty is that is that the adjective you guys use when something's

a little sweaty oh yeah that's a good way to yeah i mean also sweaty is just putting in a medieval times parody in this gay episode like i don't know maybe maybe go to something gay in the gay neighborhood instead i yeah i'm sure there's some sort of venue where you can go see a show or something there uh but instead they they uh yes marge is stood up at medieval times homer realizes he's late runs off drunk again and it's uh it's that homer got drunk that's the problem yeah you know what like he gets drunk so much in this episode i forgot that it's not the margaritas that land him in the hospital it's the drinking after the pitcher of margaritas yeah yes that's true when he shows up late i do like that march says you were too busy hanging out with your

homosexual boyfriends and then she's like says goodbye to the love joys skinner and duff man she's hearing march say like duff man and that's grady's future boyfriend duff man oh that's right yeah and yeah he shouldn't be shocked by this oh i bet they met in the parking lot we love uh so i love the mean jokes in this episode so we had the jared from subway joke and i i love this one where uh homer goes i'm like david spade without chris farley alone and useless uh though david david spade he's now he's now a podcaster so it shows us so yes homer was right useless this is when there's the big moment uh which yes it was you guys have talked about this a number of times on your podcast but like it is the very hot at the time of what if a gay character kissed one of your main straight

characters on your show it happened in a million sitcoms you guys have talked about friends episodes rosanne ally mcbeal la law there's there's too many to count really it's usually woman on woman um this is a rare exception where it's man on man which doesn't happen nearly as often it feels like that's the joke though right or maybe i guess i don't really know how this is supposed to go down i don't know are we supposed to identify with homer where he's grossed out by it and he like throws himself out a window yeah like the window's open just to be clear the window doesn't break but but uh but yes let's let's hear the scene here.

This big moment of a man kissing a man on The Simpsons. Fact is, certain people just aren't right for each other. You gave it a chance. It didn't work. At least you tried. But it was Marge, my first and only love. I'm like David Spade without Chris Farley, alone and useless. Oh, Homer, a guy as cool and special as you will have no trouble. Believe me.

Whoa. Oh, I never realized you felt about me that way. We should really take some time to talk and... I just end up hurting you! You know, Mo, I was just thinking, my problems with Marge started because I drink too much. And then tonight, alcohol only made things worse. Maybe all of my problems are actually caused by... Yeah, yeah, yeah. Take your medicine, you lush, you... It's a very crazy drawing of Homer with the booze shoved in his mouth. It's a very crazy drawing of homer with the booze shoved in his mouth it's very weird

drawing but i am really glad they put in the line uh i would bet uh in late of i just end up hurting you because that's the only way it doesn't read is homer is like i am disgusted by this fag and i gotta get away from him like yeah but like i mean if we're talking about it being gross it is just grossed on the terms that like homer does not want greater to kiss him and grady should probably know that this is not going to be welcome but he's doing it anyway i'm like i just don't i everything you guys have said about like grady's comments how we might be secretly interested in homer fine i just don't think the script has done enough work to make us think that like grady actually thinks homer might be gay or at least interesting and homer's line there as he's running away that i just end up hurting you

fine but putting it in there just makes it even more glaring that he doesn't understand what the issue with marge is that he did hurt her yeah and she had an emotional reaction to it that he then punished her for so to have him give that line to grady just makes it even worse that he can't have that recognition with Marge yeah oh man that's a good point gee I well like I'm trying to see this from Grady's point of view here so he's been expressing he's been throwing it out there to Homer a lot now I take it that Homer went to the bedroom with with Grady they're sitting on the bed together and talking like I see that Grady could get signals from homer here though obviously you shouldn't kiss him without as a surprise like that he should

that's not good i'm not condoning that but i am i'm just saying why i think grady thinks homer might be into him sure although just as a general, taking advantage of your friend's broken heart to then make a pass at them is also generally not great. Also, after you drank margaritas all night together, too, not so good either. That's fine. I don't think you're completely off base, Henry. I just feel like that read requires too much. If that's what they wanted this episode to be, someone should have taken another pass and made a few dialogue changes that would have made that clearer. And I would have been more okay with it it just seems unfinished and weird and i really hate how it is accidentally or not enforcing the idea that like if you're

friends with a gay guy he's gonna try to put the moves on you and this is something you have to be careful of because for the most part most gay guys i know don't do this to straight guys because why waste your time you know even if homer had said like in his like sad moment being like at least i still have you and julio or something that would give him gradient opening to be like oh well your place is here with me now i'm gonna kiss you yeah no that's a good that's also a good point also if they wanted to like try to win like glad awards or whatever with this they would not write something that could at the very least be construed as a predatory gay man yeah that's also true yeah yeah no it's uh but yeah i think homer you guys did i wanted to compliment another of your podcasts uh on the gayest episode ever when you covered the bob's burgers episode where uh bob belcher

also runs off in a similar fashion to this but he actually is like bi curious in the or or at least it's sexually fluid i would say in in that scene right that's a popular reading of that episode and i think the evidence is there in that episode whether it was intentional or not like it's easy it doesn't feel like you're bending over backwards to find a plausible exclamation for the way characters are acting like you do in this episode. Also just to point out, this is the last time we see Grady in this episode. We see him looking sad in his apartment and Julio, the last time we see him is when Lisa compliments.

No, it's after they've been drinking margaritas. So there's still a few minutes of episode left and we've just left the gaze. This is the end of them. They come back of course, but like, it is interesting that like we get this whole epilogue with Hibbert that

is completely separate to these new characters that you think are like the focus characters for this episode and they're honestly not yeah actually that then makes when your final moment with grady is that he makes a pass at homer that is unwanted that makes it worse if you don't follow up on it yeah yeah yeah but uh but yes hom Homer gets not just regular drunk again, alcohol poisoning drunk again, which I would think he probably is so drunk he doesn't remember Moe did this to him. But this is actually legally actionable against Moe as well, forcing him to drink as he's about to come to a realization that alcoholism is his problem. Actually, I'm not sure if this is true in every state, but in, I would assume most states, over-serving is a crime. If you're a bartender, that's why they have to cut you off. Not because they think you're going to puke or pee or start a fight.

It's like, no, there are laws in place where if you appear to be a certain level of drunkenness, I am not allowed to serve you anymore. Our pal who's been on the podcast before, Tim Kalpakis, I've heard him on the Sloppy Boys podcast. He has a good joke about saying all these bars around here are just over serving all the time it's such a problem over service at all these bars it's not his it's not their problem it's these bartenders but but mo hey at the very least mo drops him off at the er instead of like chucking him in the back alley as one would expect mo has done before right well actually just in the previous episode moe is laughing at a man dying from alcohol poisoning

in his bar and put a photo of it on his wall that's right beautiful i forgot that this is the uh the moe committing manslaughter era of the simpsons yeah that's right i rob people now so the only way this episode could possibly be resolved is if much like groundskeeper willie everybody is filming everyone else so so yes homer learns that marge loves him and that that i hate this ending honestly as i the more i talk about it that was a close call we took this much out of you but it's still not as bad as the first time i treated you for alcohol poisoning oh yeah the night that destroyed my marriage destroyed your marriage well i've never seen a woman look so devoted let's look at the tape

you have that on tape? It was back when I thought the nurse was stealing sponges. He's stable now. I'll leave you two alone. Homie, I was so worried about you. I was really mad at you tonight. But you're a good person, and that's what I see most of the time. Whatever problems we have, we have a lifetime to work them out together so she didn't hate me she married me because she loved me and i still do why do i never want to be apart

from you again well you'll never have to that is the best kiss i've had tonight. Or was it? What are you thinking? Manly thoughts. Alright. When they cut to the video, I'll read you what my note says for this section. We cut to Marge doing the correct thing. Apologizing to her husband who just got hospitalized for alcohol poisoning. Yep.

Yeah. But you're a good person. Why? Because he was an asshole to you all night and then passed out yeah show us this evidence yeah you know we'll have our whole lives to deal with these problems like well you never do and yeah and this is actually dealing with these problems head on and homer leaves you because you actually talked about these problems and they also don't even address like uh marge found out she was pregnant and that's why she stayed with him that never comes up again either no and i did chuckle that the ekg monitor is also a vcr i did i mean that is very funny this efficient set design but yeah when you when you deconstruct all this like okay i could see that marge seeing that homer

almost dies in that uh emotional state she's like please don't die i'll make this work like if you're in a bad codependent relationship maybe but but yeah i mean that this is a happy ending and it marges it comes into the room of like and i still do love you it's like yeah terrible like yeah and and then she kisses him and just like yeah you nearly dying again i mean i suppose marge learning homer nearly dies of alcohol poisoning again activates her same pity for him that makes her want to stay with him so he doesn't die but that's not good i mean the best resolution we get in this episode is that uh many years later hibbert finds out the woman was stealing sponges yeah yeah yeah that that's nice nice closure. I'm great with that closure.

That feels solid. I mean, it seems like the original sin for this episode is that it came from the idea of Homer finding out Marge did something bad and it just never gives us anything that Marge did

that was wrong. No. Even if we're just going to understand this episode like, oh, it departed from that original idea. The episode still doesn't work on the merits of it existing now. Right. It's just not a satisfying story to me. And one of the things

I would point to for why this is a bad example of a gay episode of anything is that if Homer had not gone to live in the gayborhood, let's say that he ended up going to Springfield's black neighborhood and met two black characters and learned about their culture for an episode this episode still will play basically the same way like the gay characters don't do anything really and you can swap them out with anyone and the episode is like impossible change whereas you really couldn't do that with John and Homer's phobia like John being gay is extremely important to both the a and b plot of that episode in a way that like you can't really switch it out And these characters as they exist are like without agency and without any motivation. Like I guess maybe Grady has the hots for Homer, but we don't know what they do. We don't know

anything about their lives. And they seem to only exist to point Homer in a new direction. And that is a very bad version of a gay character that we don't see that often in pop culture anymore. But we see a lot in this period. In fact, later today, Homer, Homer and I, Glenn and I, sorry, Glenn. I get it. I'm the Homer. Glenn and I are, Glenn and I are recording an episode about Sex and the City where I have to discuss Carrie's gay friend, Stanford, who is similarly sort of an agency-less character. And you normally see these characters attaching to they're the gay best friend to a straight female character but in this case they are gay best

friends for homer and that's about it they just exist to hang out with homer and do nothing else and that's yeah i mean you're right you could cut this out completely the path back to marge's heart was becoming hospitalized again which homer didn't need this this extended stay with Julio and Grady to do. He could have just went to Moe's immediately after the fight, got hospitalized. The thing would have ended the same way. You pointed out that it's weird that there's an extra alcohol drinking part after the margaritas. They could have just had the extra alcohol take place at Grady's, for example, and that would be how Homer leaves Grady. And that is how he ends up. It's so weird that Moe even shows up in the story for like

a single scene to force him to drink well it's also in the memory yeah okay well it lets mo be the bad guy like it lets them put place the sins upon mo instead of grady or julio right it's he's the sin eater in a way uh no, I want to point out character design wise in the videotape, Marge and Homer are their 1974 designs. Which, by the way, when Homer is drawn that way and Futurama is almost ending on TV, it's when you really notice him and Fry are the same guy. But they're in their 70s designs meanwhile Hibbert has a brand new mid-90s design like where he looks like he would be in a uh you know a Chris Rock stand-up special or something yeah I noticed that too it's uh it's uh not how he's looked in the 70s so he's drawn to be the mid-90s while or early 90s while Marge and Homer are 74. Not even their 80s designs from when Bart is born.

So it's all just, it's a mess on that level too. Visually, plot-wise. Though I do like that all Hibbert has left many years in the future is his tapes, which fits with the next episode where him and his wife Bernice are on vacation vacation and he says this is supposed to save our marriage so clearly the marriage was not saved i do want to talk about over the credits we get a reprise of homer and marge with more lyrics and al is correct they never dealt with homer's

alcoholism uh and actually this is the second version he had to record to go over the credits because the first version referenced the show Oliver Bean being on next. And Oliver Bean was moved to a different night. And in case you're forgetting what Oliver Bean was, well, shame on you. But so Oliver Bean is basically Fox's spicier version of the Wonder Years. The narrator instead of Daniel Stern was David Cross. And it was created by the writer of Homer Defined, Howard Gertz. So there you have it.

Oh, yeah. Wait. I know it's pronounced Howard Gertz because his son or nephew is a major WWE writer. Oh, really? Okay. Who still works with The Rock a lot. And while I'm shaming people, I will shame one of these wikis that said the original lyrics included a reference to King of the Hill and the wiki included the original lyrics. And I thought, A, you made this up. And B, you're just making up lyrics. Yeah. What the fuck, man? lyrics included a reference to king of the hill and the wiki included the original lyrics and i and i thought a you made this up and b you're just making up lyrics yeah what the fuck man no and i

i also was able to find a recording off of tv from its first airing just to be sure they didn't change the lyrics later for the oliver to to get rid of the bean reference but no in the original airing i believe it would have been the last line that turned into brief cameo which i mean props to weird al he came in a third time like his he said that credits thing he didn't even record it the first time he came in so he came in time one to do his song for the in the in the episode he came back to do a new version of the song over the credits and then when they called him, hey, this won't make sense with the Oliver Bean line. Can you come back and sing again?

And he did it because that's what a nice guy Weird Al is. And slightly more about Oliver Bean. If you weren't there at the time, Fox really thought it was going to be their next Malcolm in the Middle, but interest dropped off immediately after the first episode got a ton of viewers. So that's where they were with that show. And it went on for two seasons. And I don't think it was ever on DVD or ever streaming anywhere. So Oliver Bean, perhaps lost media.

Who can say? I remember watching it and I remember not hating it. Maybe I'm completely wrong or maybe I was in college. I would have been drunk. But I remember that Oliver has like a little girlfriend character. There's a female counterpart to Oliver who's the little girl from The Ring. It was her follow up to The Ring. I was like, good for you, Ring girl.

Yeah, it was a pleasant single camera. Yeah, too bad. Maybe there's a gay episode we could do. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, at best, it was a pleasant single camera high concept sitcom when those were kind of exploding at the time. And it's not the show that killed Futurama, but it't take as time slot futurama could have had in in early 2003 instead its episodes burned off in the

summer because of oliver bean but it's too bad that the uh song lyric about oliver bean doesn't live forever on disney plus sadly but yeah no i mean it's a cute it's at least they're reminding you of one of the fun of hearing a Weird Al song at the end of this episode. And Weird Al can call out the problems with these lyrics or with this episode. But maybe it only hit them after the episode was finished and Al wrote this lyric that it never dealt with his alcoholism. They're like, ah, that's right. We should have done that. So I guess we're at final thoughts now.

Oh, sure. Yes. I mean, we've covered this you know it's which it's weird because like uh there's been some really good episodes in season 14 lately we've been covering that i've enjoyed but this one just falls off a cliff uh again tragically it won an emmy and if i was a an academy voter my write-in would have been the king of hill episode the texas skillsaw massacre it was the clear strongest animated sitcom episode of that season but yeah just a complete mess i don't like uh how it makes all husbands look bad now that i am a

husband but yeah it's just uh it's a total mess and uh i i just i wish it was different there were so many changes they could have made and we i think we pointed all of them out i think this uh yeah as a gay episode it has too many many ideas that are not about being gay and that crowd out the gay stuff. And also Homer, if they want to do an episode where Homer isn't at fault, this isn't that episode. Just like how the Rolling Stone camp episode wasn't an episode where Homer wasn't wrong either, even though it was framed as the family apologizes to Homer. He was also wrong there, too. And because he got drunk as well that's right that's right he got drunk and then uh blabbed about his family in the back of a taxi cab

no i feel like these i i like that julio and grady have a better legacy from this episode and became recurring guys that they could be and again as somebody as somebody who grew up loving Scott Thompson's work, I like seeing him get to be on The Simpsons and add that as a credit. And hey, now, thanks to the creation of Julio in this episode, eventually a friend of a friend would get steady employment on a major television show. So that's good.

And even when we do this in granular nature, there are multiple jokes in this episode that made me go like, that's funny. That's funny. There's good jokes in this episode that made me go like that's funny that's funny there's good there's good stuff in this but yes as as an episode it is a disservice to the gays and as a plot about a relationship it is a disservice to heterosexual relationships too any other show had done this episode where the dad moves out moves in with two gay guys we would probably give it a much more favorable discussion on our podcast. But just because it is The Simpsons and we hold them to such a high

standard and their gay episodes do eventually get better. We got to go really hard on this one just to point out how it's not the successor we wanted to Homer's. The marriage one is way better, right? It doesn't have any problems. It's a. Oh, God, you guys. Good luck. It's better. Yeah, I'll just say, like, you know, when you have an episode, it's about straight marriage falling apart and having one of them move in with two gay men and have him learn zero lessons from the two gay men, especially lessons to impart about love to not do that and to really just double down on alcohol poisoning was a choice if someone's listening to this and they're like god they're going really hard in this episode i would say go look at the episode live in la pura vida it's much much later in the simpsons series but it is on disney plus it's easy to find and that's the episode that introduces patty's girlfriend evelyn and it

is like shocking how much better they are at doing a gay storyline with real characters that have motivations and feelings and it's just a beautifully written episode where um they treat a gay character like a real person uh it sucks to have to bag on a show that we all love a lot but like the simpsons did get much better with this gay episodes and i i think they figured out how to do them properly from now on so uh this is just yeah like like bob says it gets i mean i don't want to make it a lot worse before it gets better which is what uh wiggum says is his tie is stuck in the hot dog roll i was quoting wiggum on that one apt metaphor apt apt but thank you drew and glenn for coming back on the show please let us know where we can find you online and also more about

Gayest Episode Ever Gayest Episode Ever is at gayestepisodeever.com and we do all sitcoms animated and not we've done a lot of Simpsons episodes

at this point and just a few weeks ago we did Lisa the Drama Queen which is a very weird episode of the Simpsons that was inspired by Heavenly Creatures which is the

Peter Jackson movie that you probably haven't seen and that's too bad because it is queer and dark and weird and beautiful and is my favorite Peter Jackson movie. And against all odds, they turned out a pretty good Simpsons episode based on that New Zealand true crime fantasy movie. We've done just about every sitcom ever at this point. So if you have a favorite sitcom, chances are we've talked about it already. And if you go to our website, you can look up your favorite series and find out how much they failed or did not fail at introducing gay themes to it. It's gayestepisodeever.com. And on Patreon at patreon.com slash gayestepisodeever, where we have much like the series that we ripped off when we made our podcast, we have a bonus series on Patreon. The most recent one is Backdoor Pilots,

which is about weird backdoor pilot episodes to famous sitcoms where, most of which didn't result in a successful spinoff sitcom. The most recent one we did is actually a double Tiny Toons episode. We did about the two episodes where it's about Elmira's family, where Warner Brothers was like,

can we turn Elmira into a Simpsons-like family sitcom? And the answer is no. You really can't do that, but they tried twice. And it's interesting to talk about why. And then later this year, we are going to be premiering a new Patreon series called Fox Files, which is all about lesser remembered one-off sitcoms of the early days of Fox. And we're still putting the list together. But it's a chance to talk about the very, very weird ideas that Fox tried when they were figuring out what their identity is. I really hope you cover Mr.

President. That's a request. Which one's Mr. President. That's the sitcom where George C. Scott is the president. Oh yeah. I have no memory of that,

but yes, I will look that up. It's real. Right now. The list is stuff like open house and duets and women in prison and babes and stuff like that but i will gladly put mr president on that list whatever the show was that red fox died i can't remember what the name of it is but we have that one in there i think there's a there's a there's there's more than one early fox sitcom that uh fell astray because one or more stars

passed away in rapid succession and also worth otherwise i. Otherwise, I'm on Twitter at Drew G. Mackey. I'm also on Blue Sky at Drew G. Mackey. M-A-C-K-I-E. The other way, not the Bob Mackey way. And Glenn? I'm on Twitter and Blue Sky at I Write Wrongs, I-W-R-I-T-E Wrongs, although for the moment I'll probably be tweeting a lot about

Ninjago, Dragons Rising, because the second season is out on Netflix April 4th and it's a show I write on. There you go. That's correct. I'm not just a fan of Ninjago, rising because the second season is out on Netflix, uh, April 4th. And as a show I write on there, there, there, I'm not, I'm not just a fan of Ninjago,

although I am. You're that's a, no, I, I love hearing about the, uh, the, the world.

I mean, your insight, Glenn is a professional writer in, in the world has always appreciated it too. Well, thank you. I don't always feel that way about myself. This is why I keep him around.

I should have asked as gay roommates, just like in the show, who makes breakfast for whom? Like in the episode. I think Drew makes dinner and I make coffee in the morning. Yeah, I'm not a breakfast person. I'm a big dinner person and dinner for me is usually leftover breakfast. I think Glenn made me pancakes once.

Yeah, I did. You had a friend in town. there you go but thank you guys for so much for coming back and we may maybe we'll have a not gay episode for you next time now i like you casting yeah like weird al being ready to go back to the fox lot at the drop of the hat do you guys just ask and we'll come and i'm sorry to report i really thought we'd give rebecca sugar a run for her money and i guess we're gonna fall short I was gonna try to like oh yeah I was gonna try to like draw it out as much as possible just to beat her record but

not this time unfortunately better luck next time Drew not enough tangents thanks again to Drew Mackey and Glenn Lakin for being on the show please check out gayest episode ever we love it but ask for us if you want to support what we do and get these episodes one week ahead of time and ad free please go to patreon.com slash talking simpsons sign up for five bucks and you'll get access to over 150 full-length miniseries episodes

that we've been doing since we started this patreon in 2017 we cover things like futurama king of the hill batman the animated series the critic and mission hill and that five bucks a month will get you access to a new episode of talking of the hill and talking futurama every month and the second you sign up again you'll get access to nearly seven years worth of bonus stuff that you haven't heard if you're not a patron of patreon.com slash talking simpsons and there is a ten dollar level as well when you sign up for that level you get access to the five dollar stuff naturally but then you can also access one mega long podcast once a month only for people of that tier or higher and what is that henry bob's talking about our what a cartoon movie podcast our super premium

podcast where each month we delve into an animated feature film just as in depth as a gay episode of the simpsons often for five or even six hours last month we covered disney's chicken little the not so great but important to disney history cgi film and this month because it is april and is our april fool's month where we cover live action for what a cartoon we're doing a childhood favorite 1990s turtl t power filled teenage Ninja Turtles movie and you'll get the entire back catalog of six years worth of what a cartoon movies and all the $5 things Bob mentioned if you go to the $10

level at patreon.com slash talking Simpsons and as for me I've been one of your hosts Bob Mackey you can find me on Twitter as Bob Servo I'm on blue sky as Bob Servo as well and my other podcast by the way is retronauts. That is a classic gaming podcast all about old video games.

And you can find that wherever you find podcasts or go to patreon.com slash retronauts and sign up there for two full-length bonus episodes every month. And Henry, what about you? And you can follow me on Twitter and Blue Sky at H-E-N-E-R-E-Y-G. I'm Talking Henry on

Instagram. And if you're following me and bob on social medias of course you should be following at talk simpsons pod on all the social media sites because that keeps you up to date when there is new podcasts coming out on the patreon or on the free feed or if we're doing live shows or any other cool stuff follow at talk simpsons pod as well head on over to the official website, TalkingSimpsons.com. Thanks so much for listening, folks. We'll see you again next time for season four's Duffless, and we'll see you then. That's a story about Homer and Marge.

Two folks I helped out for a nominal charge. After Homer went gay, they patched up their schism. But the dude never dealt with his alcoholism Weird Al saying Oh yeah, the credits go on Long after the viewer's interest is gone Oh yeah, Weird Al had fun on this show Even if it was just a brief cameo The first step is the funnest, turning all the pieces face up.

Go crazy, dorks. I got better things to do. Hey Bart, I fixed my rock tumbler. What do you say we turn this baby loose on some feldspar? I'm in.