Tangle - Biden approves a new oil drilling project.

Episode Date: March 15, 2023

On Monday, the Biden administration said it was going to approve an oil drilling project in Alaska's North Slope, a petroleum-rich area in the northernmost county of the United States.You can read tod...ay's podcast here, today’s “Under the Radar” story here and today’s “Have a nice day” story here.Today’s clickables: Quick Hits (0:54), Today’s Story (2:30), Right’s Take (6:49) Left’s Take (11:54) , Isaac’s Take (17:13), Your Questions Answered (23:04), Under the Radar (25:06), Numbers (25:54), Have A Nice Day (26:33)You can subscribe to Tangle by clicking here or drop something in our tip jar by clicking here.Our podcast is written by Isaac Saul and edited by Zosha Warpeha. Music for the podcast was produced by Diet 75.Our newsletter is edited by Bailey Saul, Sean Brady, Ari Weitzman, and produced in conjunction with Tangle’s social media manager Magdalena Bokowa, who also created our logo.--- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/tanglenews/message Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Transcript
Discussion (0)
Starting point is 00:00:00 Based on Charles Yu's award-winning book, Interior Chinatown follows the story of Willis Wu, a background character trapped in a police procedural who dreams about a world beyond Chinatown. When he inadvertently becomes a witness to a crime, Willis begins to unravel a criminal web, his family's buried history, and what it feels like to be in the spotlight.
Starting point is 00:00:19 Interior Chinatown is streaming November 19th, only on Disney+. Chinatown is streaming November 19th, only on Disney+. From executive producer Isaac Saul, this is Tangle. Good morning, good afternoon, and good evening, and welcome to the Tangle Podcast, a place we get views from across the political spectrum, some independent thinking without all that hysterical nonsense you find everywhere else. I'm your host, Isaac Saul, and on today's episode, we're going to be talking about a oil project in Alaska that President Biden just approved, in Alaska that President Biden just approved, what it means, some reactions to it, and then my take. As always, though, before we jump in, we'll start off today with some quick hits.
Starting point is 00:01:20 First up, a Russian fighter jet collided with the propeller of an unmanned U.S. surveillance drone over the Black Sea, causing American forces to bring down the drone. Number two, former Representative Pat Schroeder, the Democrat from Colorado known for pioneering women's rights and family rights in Congress, died at the age of 82. Number three, the Department of Justice and Securities Exchange Commission opened investigations into Silicon Valley Bank's collapse. Number three, the Department of Justice and Securities Exchange Commission opened investigations into Silicon Valley banks' collapse. Number four, President Biden signed an executive order intended to strengthen background checks for gun purchases. Number five, OpenAI released GPT-4 yesterday, an upgrade on its artificial intelligence service with better reasoning capabilities. The AI can complete the bar exam and the SATs with human-like performance.
Starting point is 00:02:16 President Biden's move to approve a drilling project in Alaska drawing criticism tonight, approving a controversial plan to allow a new $8 billion oil drilling project. The Biden administration has officially approved a controversial oil drilling project in Alaska known as Willow. The project from oil giant ConocoPhillips is expected to produce some 600 million barrels of crude oil over the next three decades. President Biden is facing swift backlash from environmentalists over his approval of a massive oil drilling project in Alaska. Now it's a major reversal after he promised no more drilling on federal lands while on the campaign trail in 2020. On Monday, the Biden administration said it was going to approve an
Starting point is 00:02:59 oil drilling project in Alaska's North Slope, a petroleum-rich area in the northernmost county of the United States. The announcement came a day after the administration made a conservation move, saying it would bar or limit drilling in roughly 16 million acres of Alaskan land and the Arctic Ocean. Biden is barring drilling in 3 million acres of the Beaufort Sea and limiting drilling in 13 million acres of the federally designated National Petroleum Reserve. Biden's second announcement drew condemnation from environmentalists who said the decision amounts to breaking his promise to stop new oil drilling on federal lands, which was one of his climate change pledges. There was an outpouring of frustration from
Starting point is 00:03:39 congressional Democrats and young voters who took to social media apps like TikTok and droves to criticize Biden. The approval was granted for Canoco Phillips' willow drilling project by the Bureau of Land Management, or BLM, which authorized as many as three drill sites and 199 total wells. The Interior Secretary, Deb Haaland, who had opposed the project as a member of Congress, did not sign the order, but her deputy, Tommy Boudreau, who grew up in Alaska, did. Haaland, who had opposed the project as a member of Congress, did not sign the order, but her deputy, Tommy Boudreau, who grew up in Alaska, did. Haaland released the video on Monday night addressing the project, emphasizing the Biden administration's moves to combat climate change and move toward more renewable energy, saying they had limited decision space. We focused on how to reduce the project's footprint and minimize the impacts to people and wildlife. What was approved reflects a substantially smaller project than Canoco
Starting point is 00:04:29 Phillips originally proposed, a 40 percent reduction, she said. They're also relinquishing nearly 70,000 acres of their leases, land that will no longer be developed. President Biden has done more than any other in our history to invest in our nation's lands, water, and clean energy. more than any other in our history to invest in our nation's lands, water, and clean energy. The Willow Project is expected to produce as many as 180,000 barrels of oil a day and create up to 2,500 temporary jobs during construction and 300 long-term jobs. It will generate billions of dollars in tax revenue and royalties for federal, state, and local governments, according to the Associated Press. Meanwhile, the BLM estimates the project's combined construction, operation, and total combustible fuel output will account for 239 million metric tons of greenhouse gases over the 30-year lifespan,
Starting point is 00:05:16 which is about equal to the combined emissions of 1.7 million passenger cars on the road every year. The United States emits about 5.6 billion metric tons of carbon dioxide annually, the second most of any country behind China. The project is broadly supported by both of Alaska's Republican senators and its lone House representative, Democrat Mary Peltola. It also enjoys support from many indigenous groups in Alaska. Nargaret Hartchurk, president of the Voice of Arctic Inupiatiat whose members span the region, said there was a majority consensus in favor of the project. However, city of Newark's mayor, Rosemary Octogood, whose community of 525 people lives closest to the planned project,
Starting point is 00:05:57 has been an outspoken opponent of the drilling. My constituents and community will bear the burden of this project with our health and our livelihood, she said. Today, we're going to take a look at some reactions from the left and the right, and then my take. First up, we'll start with what the right is saying. Many on the right praised the move, saying the U.S. needs more domestic production and it could ultimately be a net positive for the environment. Some argue the project was long delayed and frame even the limited approval as a miracle. Others say we are going to use this oil anyway, and it's better to produce it ourselves than rely on foreign countries. In the Washington Examiner, Tom Joyce said the project was a gift to the environment. Over two dozen environmental groups issued a joint statement Monday opposing the measure. They said the move once again demonstrates how political and industry
Starting point is 00:07:00 interests put business as usual before the health of people and the planet. Whether or not environmentalists want to admit it, though, approving new drilling in Alaska is a green move, Joyce said. More domestic oil production will benefit the United States. It could reduce costs for consumers and help the country avoid energy shortages. However, it also has some environmental benefits. U.S. oil has better environmental standards and a lower carbon footprint than oil from other countries. A barrel of crude U.S. oil will emit 89 kilograms of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere, which is lower than the global average of 95 kilograms, according to the Brookings Institution. Therefore, the U.S. can cut its carbon emissions by using domestic oil rather than importing it from people who hate us, he said. Plus, purchasing
Starting point is 00:07:45 oil from foreign countries can enrich countries that sponsor terrorism, such as Iran. The U.S. should avoid commerce with such countries whenever possible. The earth is warming and humans contribute to the problem. Reducing emissions where economically feasible is a good idea. However, the U.S. needs oil. Mill millions of people still drive gas-powered cars, and commerce depends on trucking industry powered by gasoline. That will not change soon, so the country should seek out oil with a lower carbon footprint, such as American oil. The Wall Street Journal editorial board praised the administration for approving a long-delayed drilling plan in Alaska. The decision should have been easy after it passed every review known to federal government. The project is projected to yield as much as 180,000 barrels
Starting point is 00:08:30 of oil a day and will provide much-needed domestic oil production. The White House leaked the decision late Friday, and the climate lobby erupted in anger and tried to change it, the board said. Earthjustice says it greenlights a carbon bomb. Al Gore piped up and the climate left talked ominously about a presidential primary challenge. To calm the hysterics, the administration leaked over the weekend that it will also put much of the rest of Alaska off limits to any drilling, creating a firewall against future protection. Firewall? The Willow Project takes up 0.002% of Alaska's National Petroleum Reserve and is expected to bring 2,500 new jobs in the state, they said. The plan has broad political support in Alaska,
Starting point is 00:09:11 including the state's indigenous leaders and Alaska's bipartisan congressional delegation. The Biden administration remains hostile to nearly all domestic fossil fuel production, and political realism says Willow is the exception that proves that rule. The White House knows a primary challenge from the left is unlikely, and its bigger concern is the opening for a GOP challenger if there is a surge in oil prices after Mr. Biden has sat on all drilling in the U.S. Whatever the political calculation, the Willow decision is a great relief to Alaskans and an economic boon to America. In Real Clear Energy, Rick Whitbeck, the Alaska State Director for Power the Future, asked if you believe in miracles. It took an extra
Starting point is 00:09:52 27 months, cost Alaska two full seasons of exploration, and the United States untold revenues and domestic supply, but the decision on Alaska's Willow Development Project was a win for labor unions, native organizations, legislature, Governor Mike Dunleavy, and the entire congressional delegation, who all voiced strong and consistent support for Willow, Whitbeck said. On the losing side were lower 48-based environmental organizations, with their form-letter armies and TikTok crowds attempting to sway the ecocentric leadership that dominates the Biden White House. With the gap between our nation's oil supply and demand around 8 million barrels a day,
Starting point is 00:10:30 one would think adding domestic barrels to the equation would be a no-brainer. However, the influence of the rabid, radical groups and ideologues who fought the project for over a decade were more interested in perpetuating a false narrative than helping America, Whitbeck wrote. To them, Willow represented a carbon bomb, a dangerous and unnecessary project whose ultimate approval and build-out would exasperate the climate crisis. They used their influence with the Biden administration to force a review of Willow, even though the project had traversed the entire federal permitting process with its initial record of decision issued in November 2020. federal permitting process with its initial record of decision issued in November 2020.
Starting point is 00:11:10 Unfortunately for America, Team Biden did trade off short-term gain for long-term pain in making the decision. His decision to permanently protect nearly 13 million of the MPRA's 23 million acres and future development will harm Alaska's energy future. All right, that is it for the rightist saying, which brings us to the left's take. The left is mostly critical of the move, saying Biden broke one of his clearest campaign promises. Some emphasize the difficult spot he was put in by world events and the sensible reasons to approve the project. Others argue it is a short-sighted decision that will do more harm than good. In Vox, Rebecca Lieber said Biden is breaking a big climate promise. The same president who passed the nation's biggest law ever to slash climate pollution may have just undone part of that legacy, Lieber wrote.
Starting point is 00:12:02 The Biden administration gave the green light on Monday to one of the largest ever oil projects on public lands. The approval clears the way for one of the world's largest oil companies, ConocoPhillips, to start construction on the Willow Project in northern Alaska in a matter of days. The approval marks the biggest about-face the president has made on his 2020 campaign pledge that he would be banning new oil and gas permitting on public lands and waters. The administration tried to cushion the blow for climate activists with other moves, but anti-willow Native advocates don't see those concessions as adequate. The true cost of the Willow Project is to the land and to animals and people forced to breathe
Starting point is 00:12:39 polluted air and drink polluted water, said a statement from Sovereign Inupiat for a Living Arctic and Indigenous Grassroots Group. While out-of-state executives take in record profits, local residents are left to contend with the detrimental impacts of being surrounded by massive drilling operations. Activists are angry for a simple reason. The world already has too much oil and can't afford more if it has any hope to tackle runaway global warming, Lieber said. Over its expected lifespan, it will add 278 million metric tons of greenhouse gases to the atmosphere, the equivalent of creating 70 new coal plants for a year, according to the EPA's greenhouse gas calculator. The size alone makes the Willow Project a carbon bomb, an environmentalist view. In Bloomberg, Liam Denning emphasized the challenges Biden faced and the reasons he has for approving the budget. Russia's invasion of
Starting point is 00:13:30 Ukraine reminded Americans that their gasoline pumps are still ultimately tethered to some unsavory regimes. It reminded Democrats that pump prices, which hit a record last summer, can be politically toxic. Biden's unprecedented release of 180 million barrels from the Strategic Petroleum Reserve, or the SPR, was his antidote. In a perfect world, the scientific consensus on climate change would have been broadly accepted decades ago in efficient economy solutions like a carbon tax put in place to shift our energy preferences, Denning said. In the world we've got, U.S. climate policy has lurched forward via a knife-edge vote in the Senate on subsidies, and any politician hoping to force further action just by stymieing fossil fuel production in
Starting point is 00:14:10 today's market must be sick of their job. While Willow has, similar to Keystone, become a climate cause celebre, denying it would be a tacit gift to Russia and its OPEC Plus partners. Not to mention strange politics after that SPR drawdown, he said. There are similar tensions at the local level. It is notable that alongside representatives of the local Inupiat people and regional government, Mary Peltola, Alaska's sole representative in Congress, who is a Democrat and former tribal judge, has also endorsed Willow. In weighing that, Biden must bear in mind that Alaska is also home to large deposits of minerals critical to his U.S.- made decarbonization effort, such as graphite, cobalt, and rare earth metals. Any hope of
Starting point is 00:14:50 developing those rests on Washington's relations with the local communities that must ultimately lend support and labor to, and in some cases own, a direct stake in such projects. Besides Russia, the White House has reasons to give Willow the nod that are much closer to home. T'was the season of chaos and all through the house, not one person was stressing. Holla differently this year with DoorDash. Don't want to holla do the most? Holla don't. More festive, less frantic. Get deals for every occasion with DoorDash. Based on Charles Yu's award-winning book, Interior Chinatown follows the story of Willis Wu,
Starting point is 00:15:28 a background character trapped in a police procedural who dreams about a world beyond Chinatown. When he inadvertently becomes a witness to a crime, Willis begins to unravel a criminal web, his family's buried history, and what it feels like to be in the spotlight. Interior Chinatown is streaming November 19th, only on Disney+. In the University of Maryland student newspaper, The Diamondback, Kyra Freeman argued that Biden's drilling project is short-sighted. When President Joe Biden promised no new drilling, it's too bad we couldn't look behind the podium and see he was crossing his fingers, Freeman wrote.
Starting point is 00:16:04 look behind the podium and see he was crossing his fingers, Freeman wrote. Concern comes from projected harm to the environment as the oil that will be produced over the 30 years of development is estimated to create greenhouse gases the equivalent of 2 million gas-powered cars. That amount of pollution more than eliminates all emissions saved by the U.S. renewable energy projects. Environmental effects would be especially harmful to those who live in Alaska. With the Arctic warming at four times the global rate, many have already noticed ice thinning and unusual changes in wildlife due to warmer temperatures. Members of the Nuiqsik community, which is closest to the proposed drilling site, have stood in strong opposition.
Starting point is 00:16:38 They have argued the development would endanger wildlife and consequently threaten Nuiqsik food security as well as threaten cultural traditions of fishing and hunting, Freeman said. State lawmakers and other indigenous groups are in favor of the jobs and revenue the project would bring to the area. However, these benefits are often overinflated and don't consider loopholes and tax write-offs that might result in Alaska's state revenue declining for the first decade of drilling. ConocoPhillips, the company in charge of the Willow project itself, claims the construction is estimated to only create about 2,000 jobs with merely 300 permanent ones. This is relatively large for the North Slope's small
Starting point is 00:17:15 population of about 11,000 individuals, but ConocoPhillips has stated most jobs will be filled by non-locals. This job count is also likely to be overstated, as oil companies have done in the past. All right, that is it for what the left and the right are saying, which brings us to my take. So for starters, Biden is breaking a promise. Regardless of how you feel about his reasons or the outcome here, career politicians saying one thing and then doing the complete opposite is precisely why so many people are so cynical about our politics. No more drilling on federal lands, period, Biden said on the campaign trail, period, period, period. period, Biden said on the campaign trail, period, period, period. That was Joe Biden over and over.
Starting point is 00:18:12 On Monday, he approved a gigantic $8 billion plan to extract 600 million barrels of oil from untouched federal land in Alaska. It will be the largest drilling project on public land in the U.S. and one of the largest ever. Whoops. The exceptions for environmentalists that Biden laid out, like designating 2.8 million acres of the Beaufort Sea as off-limits or restricting drilling on another 13 million acres of land and negotiating with Canoco Phillips to relinquish 68,000 acres of leases, are fine if you're on the environmentalist side. But they're also pretty unexciting. Any future administration will have avenues to reverse them, and offshore drilling in the Arctic isn't especially appealing logistically for big oil anyway. Such a project wouldn't produce its first barrel until 2040 at the earliest, and oil companies don't seem that
Starting point is 00:18:56 interested in investing in a project with a long maturation period right now. The real concession earned was slashing the size of the project by 40% and reducing the number of drill sites, though that, too, is cold comfort for anyone worried about carbon emissions who is going to see the headlines about the biggest drilling project on public land in the United States. There are also parts of the whole thing that are just devastating from a conservation perspective. On a personal note, I don't know how you can see the land where this drilling is going to happen and not feel some pang of sadness. The photos in the article show these exploratory drill sites in the middle of this vast expanse of land, and it's just kind of depressing. Of course, Biden does have a few things going for him. The biggest, and the thing I'd emphasize if I were in the
Starting point is 00:19:42 administration, is this may have been a losing battle either way. Legal experts from across the political spectrum have said that since Canoco Phillips already won leases to this land and had done the necessary work to drill, if Biden had tried to stop them, he probably would have lost in court. Rather than issue the permits, the government could have been on the hook not just for investments Canoco Phillips made, but for future profits, an award that could have climbed into the billions of dollars. According to Senator Lisa Murkowski, the Republican from Alaska, that realization was a big reason why Biden decided to let it happen. There was no way around the fact that these were valid existing lease rights, she told the New York Times.
Starting point is 00:20:19 The administration was going to have to deal with that reality. Other talking points are valid too. All three Alaska members of Congress wanted the deal. Indigenous groups largely supported it. And, of course, we need oil production. Arguments about job gains ring hollow for me given how few permanent jobs this will create and the fact those numbers are usually fudged and end up not going to locals anyway. But pragmatic takes on where we'll actually get this oil if we don't produce it ourselves do resonate. I was particularly moved by Tom Joyce's argument under what the right is saying that we're going to end up using this oil anyway, so we might as well be the ones to produce
Starting point is 00:20:55 it, given we'll do it more ethically and with lower emissions than the foreign adversaries we'd have to rely on otherwise. But there are two sticking points I just can't shake. The first is the locals who are staunchly opposed to this and will be most impacted by it. Imagine a giant oil company arriving in your neighborhood, buying a plot of land a quarter mile from your house, and announcing it was going to erect a bunch of oil rigs, tanks, roads, and ship in thousands of out-of-towners to work there, trampling through the neighborhood with giant Mack trucks and construction equipment for the next, say, I don't know, 30 years.
Starting point is 00:21:25 I doubt you'd be thrilled. Take a drive through Midland, Odessa, Texas and see what exploring the Permian Basin has done to that area, and you might be a little bit more sympathetic. This is all even more potent if you are the kind of people who hunt, fish, and extract water from the land getting destroyed. And then there's the carbon bomb. I'm not some Green New Deal environmental extremist, and I don't think you should stop having kids because of climate change, nor do I think it's heroic to kill yourself in the name of the planet. But climate change is happening. It's getting
Starting point is 00:21:55 worse. And at some point, we're going to have to stop producing and consuming oil the way we are. Yes, China and India are polluting too. Yes, the developing world is going to rely on coal. I know all of this. I've also expressed my support for an all-of-the-above energy approach in Tangle. And in many ways, I think that's what this is. Biden is investing in a clean energy future and changing our infrastructure to receive that energy,
Starting point is 00:22:19 while in the present, something like this brings oil production home domestically, reducing its impact and giving us more control over it. Is that my preferred method for how all this goes? No. I'd really love it if Tesla dropped a $10,000 electric vehicle tomorrow and we could all link up to some offshore wind farm for electricity. That's not the world we've got. Part of me would have been happy to see Biden go to the mat with big oil on one of the largest oil drilling projects in the country, but it probably would have been futile. And while I worry about the drilling's impact on the land, I also know when we go to the same area for the
Starting point is 00:22:54 minerals we'll need for electric cars or solar panels, we're going to run into some problems too. None of this is easy. We have a production versus usage gap, we should strive to be energy independent, and we have to accept the reality, we should strive to be energy independent, and we have to accept the reality that we'll need to slowly draw down our oil production and use as we move toward a future where we're polluting less and still covering our energy needs. This decision feels both pragmatic and disappointing, something that isn't a win for the planet, but might have been the best option on the table. All right, that is it for my take, which brings us to your questions answered.
Starting point is 00:23:36 This one's from Jessica in New York City. Jessica said, it seems like most of the people you quote and what the right or left are saying are members of the mainstream media. From your writing, it does seem like you're aware of the work of prominent journalists who have left mainstream media like Matt Taibbi or Bari Weiss. Is there a reason you don't seem to quote them? So, yes, I'm definitely aware of them. I've quoted Matt Taibbi extensively in Tangle, actually, though I think it's been a while since he showed up under what the left is saying, which is probably where I'd put him. Taibbi and I have actually held public discussions on journalism together. There are videos of that online, and I just emailed him the other day to come on the podcast and discuss the Twitter files, but no response yet. Matt, if you're listening to this on the off chance, please do write me back. It seems she is mostly focused on her podcast, Honestly, which is very good, and on building out her own media company. Like Weiss and Taibbi, I was an early adopter on Substack before moving to Ghost, which is an independent publishing platform.
Starting point is 00:24:37 And like them, I'm a journalist now trying to build my own media company. Unlike them, I was not hugely popular before going independent, so I've had a little more catching up to do. Either way, I think we do pretty regularly quote independent journalists and writers like Taibbi and Weiss. Just recently, on the left, we've quoted Noah Smith, Ryan Grimm, Matthew Iglesias, who have all regularly appeared in Tangle and they're writing from their independent newsletters after working in a while for the mainstream media. On the right, we've quoted folks like Ryan Gerduski and Brad Palumbo, who also have created their own media platforms. Specific to Taibbi and Weiss, though, the reason they may not regularly fall into the Tangle format is that they are often producing something closer to journalism
Starting point is 00:25:15 than opinion pieces or arguments, which kind of culls their writing a little bit in what I can choose from. But I promise you will definitely see them pop up now and again. I can choose from. But I promise you will definitely see them pop up now and again. All right, that is it for your questions answered, which brings us to our under the radar section. Boeing has just won a massive $37 billion deal from Saudi Arabia that will build a new airline to compete with Emirates Qatar. The deal has the potential to create 1 million jobs in the United States across 44 states, including 150,000 jobs in manufacturing. Saudi Arabia could purchase as many as 78 jets from Boeing. Riyadh Air, which is owned by Saudi's sovereign wealth fund, is hoping to connect more than 100 destinations around the world by 2030. The deal comes as the
Starting point is 00:26:04 U.S. and Saudi officials are working to repair ties between the countries, which have recently hit new lows over oil fights and the killing of journalist Jamal Khashoggi. All right, next up is our numbers section. The number of barrels of oil a day the Willow Project could produce is 180,000. The percentage of all U.S. oil production that would represent is 1.5%. The number of barrels of oil a day that flow through the Trans-Alaska Pipeline is 499,700. The number of barrels of oil a day that used to flow through that pipeline was 2.1 million in the late 1980s. The number of gas-powered cars and trucks
Starting point is 00:26:45 currently on the road in the U.S. is 250 million. The number of gas-powered cars the emissions from the Willow Project would represent is 1.7 million. All right, and last but not least, our have a nice day story. In Australia, a large research project studying endangered species has just taken 29 of them off the endangered species list.
Starting point is 00:27:08 It's a major milestone for conservation efforts. All of the animals can be safely delisted, the researchers said, including the golden western barred and eastern barred bandicoots, western coal, sooty albatross, waterfall frog, flinders, range worm lizard, yellow-footed rock wallabies, greater bilby humpback whales, growling grass frogs, Murray's cod, and others, the Good News Network reported. I don't know what any of those animals are, but I like the sound of them. Australia, because of its incredible biodiversity and how many creatures are unique to the continent, has been a major focus of endangered species conservation for decades. The paper was
Starting point is 00:27:45 published in Science, and you can read about it with a link in today's episode description. All right, everybody, that is it for today's podcast. As always, if you want to support our work, please go to readtangle.com, and we'll be right back here at the same time tomorrow. Have a good one peace our podcast is written by me isaac saul and edited by zosia warpea our script is edited by sean brady ari weitzman and bailey saul shout out to our interns argy morehead and watkins kelly and our social media manager magdalena bakova who created our podcast logo music for the podcast was produced by Diet75.
Starting point is 00:29:05 For more from Tangle, check out our website at www.tangle.com. We'll see you next time. When he inadvertently becomes a witness to a crime, Willis begins to unravel a criminal web, his family's buried history, and what it feels like to be in the spotlight. Interior Chinatown is streaming November 19th, only on Disney+.

There aren't comments yet for this episode. Click on any sentence in the transcript to leave a comment.