Tangle - Congress reauthorizes the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act.

Episode Date: April 23, 2024

FISA reauthorization. On Saturday night, President Biden signed legislation reauthorizing Section 702 of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA), the controversial warrantless surveillance program whose renewal had been held up by bipartisan concerns. Minutes after it lapsed at midnight on Friday, Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer (D-NY) announced a deal to vote on a package of amendments to the House-passed bill to reauthorize the FISA. The Senate approved the reauthorization 60-34.You can read today's podcast⁠ ⁠⁠here⁠⁠⁠, our “Under the Radar” story ⁠here and today’s “Have a nice day” story ⁠here⁠.Watch our latest YouTube video, an interview with Edwin Raymond. He is a recently retired NYPD lieutenant, civil-rights activist and author of the riveting new memoir An Inconvenient Cop: My Fight to Change Policing in America. You can view it here.We just released the next episode of our new podcast series, The Undecideds. In episode 2, our undecided voters primarily talk about Trump’s legal troubles. How do they feel about his alleged crimes? How would him being convicted - or exonerated - change the way they vote? What about his claims he should have immunity as president? You’ll hear how they consider these major themes of the race, and also what they made of Haley dropping out and Biden’s State of the Union Address. You can listen to Episode 2 ⁠⁠here.⁠⁠Today’s clickables: Happy Passover (0:58), Quick hits (2:16), Today’s story (4:03), Right’s take (8:12), Left’s take (12:14), Isaac’s take (16:06), Listener question (21:33), Under the Radar (24:32), Numbers (25:35), Have a nice day (26:47)You can subscribe to Tangle by clicking here or drop something in our tip jar by clicking here. Tangle is looking for a part-time intern to work as an assistant to our YouTube and podcast producer. This is a part-time, paid position that would be ideal for a college student or recent college graduate looking to get real-world deadline experience in the industry. Applicants should have: Proficiency in Adobe Premiere — After Effects a plus. Minimum of one year of video editing (Adobe Premiere) Minimum of one year of audio editing and mixing (Any DAW) Good organizational and communication skills Understanding of composition and aesthetic choices Self-sufficiency in solving technical problems Proficiency in color grading and vertical video formatting (preferred, not required)To apply, email your resume and a few paragraphs about why you are applying to [e-mail] and [e-mail] with the subject line "Editor opening"The job listing is posted here. Preference will be given to candidates in the greater Philadelphia area. What do you think of the reauthorization of Section 702 of FISA? Let us know!Our podcast is written by Isaac Saul and edited and engineered by Jon Lall. Music for the podcast was produced by Diet 75. Our newsletter is edited by Managing Editor Ari Weitzman, Will Kaback, Bailey Saul, Sean Brady, and produced in conjunction with Tangle’s social media manager Magdalena Bokowa, who also created our logo.--- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/tanglenews/message Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Based on Charles Yu's award-winning book, Interior Chinatown follows the story of Willis Wu, a background character trapped in a police procedural who dreams about a world beyond Chinatown. When he inadvertently becomes a witness to a crime, Willis begins to unravel a criminal web, his family's buried history, and what it feels like to be in the spotlight. Interior Chinatown is streaming November 19th, only on Disney+. The flu remains a serious disease. Last season, over 102,000 influenza cases have been reported across Canada, which is Chinatown is streaming November 19th, only on Disney+. yourself from the flu. It's the first cell-based flu vaccine authorized in Canada for ages six months and older, and it may be available for free in your province. Side effects and allergic reactions can occur, and 100% protection is not guaranteed. Learn more at flucellvax.ca.

From executive producer Isaac Saul, this is Tangle. Good morning, good afternoon, and good evening, and welcome to the Tangle podcast, the place we get views from across the political spectrum, some independent thinking, and a little bit of my take. I'm your host, Isaac Saul, and on today's episode, we're going to be talking about something that we actually have never talked about before, which is Section 702 of FISA. So I'm excited to jump into this topic. We've been kind of, I mean, just recently, there's been a few things that have kind of been happening on loop, some stories developing over a long period of time. So I was excited to dig into something new. And I think this is a really important one, a really interesting one. And I'm excited to get going.

Before you jump into quick hits, just want to say happy Passover to all my Jews out there. I see you guys. I know this is a crazy time in the world for the Jews and all the controversy and stuff going on. And it's making me certainly reflective to be in the high holidays. And yeah, I'm thinking of, you know, both the Jews celebrating Passover, but also all the Muslim Americans who are caught up in a lot of the stuff happening in Israel and Gaza and across the country right now and all the tensions. It's a really weird, icky time in a lot of ways. And I just wanted to say that I am thinking about and praying for some peace and unity and some calm across our country and across the globe right

now as I head into this little brief holiday season and very much hoping for a turn in the tenor and the state of things. And that's kind of where my head's at and felt important to say today. So yeah, that's me. All right, let's get into it with some quick hits. First up, the Supreme Court seemed divided over a lower court's ruling that blocked Oregon officials from prohibiting homeless people from sleeping in public spaces. Number two, Israel's military intelligence chief resigned yesterday over the failure to stop Hamas's attack on October 7th. Number three, Columbia University held virtual classes yesterday as protests and counter-protests engulfed the campus over Israel's war in Gaza. Dozens of people

have been arrested and suspended. Protesters were also arrested at Yale University. Number four, the Supreme Court will hear a case over whether the Biden administration can regulate ghost guns, the firearms made privately without serial numbers. And number five, on Monday, construction began on the $12 billion high-speed bullet train linking Las Vegas to the Los Angeles area. House lawmakers have approved the reauthorization of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, or FISA, for two years. Today's vote comes after an earlier version of the bill that called for a five-year extension failed in the House. The House has passed legislation to reauthorize what's known as the FISA surveillance program. It allows for the U.S.

to track the movements of foreigners located outside of the U.S. without a warrant. FISA allows the government to gather information on foreign nationals who it believes could be compromising American security and be able to do it without a warrant. The holdup is that, and sometimes it collects data on Americans who interact with persons of interest. On Saturday night, President Biden signed legislation reauthorizing Section 702 of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, FISA, the controversial warrantless surveillance program whose renewal had been held up by bipartisan concerns.

Minutes after it lapsed at midnight on Friday, Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer, the Democrat from New York, announced a deal to vote on a package of amendments to the House passed bill to reauthorize FISA. The Senate approved the reauthorization in a 60-34 vote. A quick reminder here, FISA was originally enacted in 1978 as a framework for gathering foreign intelligence, but the U.S. government wanted to make monitoring foreign terrorists easier in the wake of 9-11. In 2008, to capitalize on suspects who were using electronic communications like email serviced by U.S. companies, Congress passed the FISA Amendments Act. Those amendments included Section 702, which authorized the government to

compel communications service providers based in the U.S. to share the communications of non-Americans located abroad without a warrant from a court and without needing to show that the target is a suspected terrorist or spy. Section 702 has been renewed several times since then, and U.S. officials say it is crucial for disrupting terrorist attacks, cyber intrusions, and foreign espionage. The Biden administration credited the program for providing crucial intelligence in the 2022 killing of Al-Qaeda leader Ayman al-Zawahiri. However, Americans are regularly caught up in FISA's warrantless surveillance, revealing their private phone calls, emails, and text messages. When federal agents obtain

that information, they can legally search it even though they are going through Americans' private communications. According to the Director of National Intelligence Records, federal agencies performed over 100,000 warrantless backdoor searches of Americans' private communications in 2022 and about 3 million the year prior. Perhaps most notably, Trump campaign associate Carter Page was caught up in a warrantless FISA surveillance in 2016, though Page was surveilled by traditional FISA wiretaps, not those authorized by Section 702. The FBI then used two surveillance warrants to eavesdrop on the Trump campaign leading up to and following the 2016 election. Citing this incident, former President Trump came out against the reauthorization of Section 702 a few weeks ago, which turned some members of the House against it. In the past year, U.S. officials have revealed

that the FBI has abused FISA by querying the information of a member of Congress, participants in the George Floyd protests in 2020, and people who attended the January 6th riots at the U.S. Capitol. Because of the program's persistent abuse, lawmakers in the House and Senate have pushed reform bills over the last two years. On Friday, several amendments were proposed in the Senate in an attempt to close what critics called civil liberty loopholes, but did not garner enough support for passage. One amendment, proposed by Senator Dick Durbin, the Democrat from Illinois, would have required the government to get a warrant to access Americans' communications, but it was rejected 42 to 50. In the end, Section 702 was renewed in largely the same fashion it existed previously. Legislators supporting Section 702's renewal framed the need as urgent.

Following a ruling from the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court, which received surveillance applications, the Biden administration said it expected its authority to collect intelligence to remain operational for at least a year. This reauthorization of Section 702 gives the United States the authority to continue to collect foreign intelligence information about non-U.S. persons located outside the United States, Attorney General Merrick Garland said on Saturday, while at the same time codifying important reforms the Justice Department has adopted to ensure the protection of Americans' privacy and civil liberties. Today, we're going to examine some arguments from the right and the left about the law, and then my take. We'll be right back after this quick commercial break.

First up, we'll start with what the right is saying. The right is mixed on the legislation, with many arguing Section 702 is vital to national security. Some criticize the law as a clear infringement of civil liberties. Others say critics on both the left and right misunderstand Section 702's purpose. In the New York Times, Matthew Waxman and Adam Klein wrote that government surveillance keeps us safe. The latest version of the bill adds dozens of legal safeguards around the surveillance in question, the most expansive privacy reform to the legislation in its history. The result preserves critical intelligence powers while protecting Americans' privacy rights in our complex digital age, Waxman and Klein said. Section 702 has supplied extraordinary insight into foreign dangers, including military threats, theft of American trade secrets, terrorism,, and Fentanyl Tracking. In 2022, intelligence from 702 helped the government find and kill the al-Qaeda leader Ayman al-Zawahiri, one of the terrorists responsible for September 11th.

Although Section 702 can be used only to target foreigners abroad, it does include Americans when they interact with foreign targets. Not only is such incidental collection inevitable in today's globalized world, it can be vital to U.S. security. If a terrorist or spy abroad is communicating with someone here, our government must find out why, Waxman and Klein said. Recent years have shown Section 702's great value for national security, but they have also revealed lax compliance at the FBI. The latest reauthorization boosts privacy without blinding our country to threats in today's dangerous world.

In red state, Jeff Charles said the FISA reauthorization vote shows how little Congress cares about protecting our rights. It is not difficult to safeguard our God-given and constitutional rights. The Fourth Amendment very clearly disallows the state from conducting unreasonable searches and seizures and stipulates that the authorities must obtain a warrant to justify spying on Americans. In light of this, why the hell would anyone who swore an oath to defend the Constitution want to let the state surveil Americans without going through the appropriate processes, Charles wrote? The problem, as I see it, is that politicians from both parties know they will never be held accountable for the choices they make. We can pretty much guarantee that during primary season, none of the lawmakers

who continued empowering the state to violate our Fourth Amendment rights will have to fear being replaced because, by and large, the people are not paying enough attention to these issues. To keep one's seat in Congress, one does not actually have to deliver results. They need only to remain popular enough to win enough votes to return them to D.C. National Review's editors called Trump's criticism of FISA incoherent. The provision of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, FISA, at issue is not the one exploited by Obama-era FBI leadership, in collusion with the Hillary Clinton campaign, to smear Trump as a Putin puppet.

That statute was the original FISA, the editor said. Section 702 allows American intelligence agencies to surveil non-Americans reasonably believed to be outside the United States. This is just traditional spying, and conducting it is common sense, if only to defend against the aggressive anti-American operations of Chinese, Russian, and other skilled foreign intelligence services. The allegations against Section 702 by Trump and a mix of populist, libertarian, and leftist critics are mostly bogus. The statute explicitly prohibits targeting Americans for surveillance, the editors wrote. Are Americans nevertheless intercepted in foreign surveillance operations? Of course they are, incidentally. That is a fact of all policing. Most of the time, however, when the FBI seeks to search the database, it is because foreign agents are plotting against Americans. A warrant requirement would only delay access to intelligence that should be readily accessible. This would intolerably increase

the danger that terrorist plots will lead to terrorist attacks. Alright, that is it for the rightist saying, which brings us to what the left is saying. The left opposes Section 702's reauthorization, pointing to examples of unlawful surveillance of U.S. citizens under the law. Some say Biden's support of the bill undermines his purported concern for democracy. Others note that meaningful reforms were stripped from the bill at the last minute. In The Hill, Elizabeth Goitin argued that the bill creates a staggering potential for abuse of power. Although Americans can't be targeted per se, their phone calls, emails, and text messages are inevitably swept up in enormous volumes for the simple reason that

Americans communicate with people around the world, she wrote. In recent years, there have been multiple revelations of government abuse of Section 702. FBI agents have conducted warrantless searches of Section 702-acquired data for the communications of Black Lives Matter protesters, members of Congress, journalists, and, in one case, more than 19,000 donors to a congressional campaign. Under the House-passed bill, the government can compel the assistance of individuals or companies that provide any service at all, as long as they have access to the equipment, for instance, servers, routers or cell towers, on which communications are transmitted. Almost any business that provides Wi-Fi to its customers could be conscripted into service, Goitin wrote. Imagine placing the power to use every commercial landlord as an NSA agent into

the hands of a future president with autocratic ambitions. In such a scenario, the stakes would be not just our civil liberties, but also our very democracy. In Jacobin, Bronco Marchetic criticized Democrats for supporting new spy powers that Trump could use. As usual, when it comes to radical expansions of U.S. government surveillance, the issue boils down to an almost imperceptible change in the wording of a bill, which in practice will have vast implications for ordinary Americans' privacy, Marchetic said. The language in question tweaks the existing law's definition of an electronic communications service provider. That definition would be changed to include any service provider in general with access to those same communications or with access to equipment that is being or may

be used to transmit or store such communications. In maybe the most extreme bit of hypocrisy, the bill passed by as large a margin as it did partly thanks to an intense lobbying campaign from the Joe Biden White House, the same Joe Biden who has spent months and years now warning that Trump is determined to destroy American democracy, Marchetti said. You couldn't get a more perfect summary of the state of democratic politics and the increasingly empty, self-serving rhetoric of authoritarianism and democracy that suffuses it. Based on Charles Yu's award-winning book, Interior Chinatown follows the story of Willis Wu,

a background character trapped in a police procedural who dreams about a world beyond Chinatown. When he inadvertently becomes a witness to a crime, Willis begins to unravel a criminal web, his family's buried history, and what it feels like to be in the spotlight. Interior Chinatown is streaming November 19th, only on Disney+. The flu remains a serious disease.

Last season, over 102,000 influenza cases have been reported across Canada, which is nearly double the historic average of 52,000 cases. What can you do this flu season? Talk to your pharmacist or doctor about getting a flu shot. Thank you. Side effects and allergic reactions can occur and 100% protection is not guaranteed. Learn more at flucellvax.ca. In Tector, Tim Cushing said the bill keeps only the bad stuff about Section 702. The government had a few years to sort this out, but as usual, the final call came down to the last minute. The Senate pushed through a two-year reauthorization, one pretty much free of any reforms. This happened despite there being a large and vocal portion of

the Republican Party seeking to curb the FBI's access to these collections because some of their own had been subjected to the sort of abuse that has become synonymous with the FBI's interaction with this particular surveillance program. The reauthorization passed to the Senate from the House had been stripped of a proposed warrant requirement and saddled with an especially expansive definition of the term electronic communication service provider. So, instead of reform, we're getting an even worse version of what's already been problematic, especially when the FBI is involved, Cushing said. The version that Biden signed is the worst version. If you're a fan of bipartisan efforts, no matter the outcome, well, enjoy your victory, I guess. But there's nothing

about this renewal debacle that can actually be called a win, unless you're the FBI, of course. All right, that is it for what the left and the right are saying, which brings us to my take. So imagine for a moment just a silly hypothetical. Let's say that I'm working on a story about some new German military technology. I connect with a defense contractor overseas who has a couple decades of experience working with European nations on their military defense, and we end military technology. I connect with a defense contractor overseas who has a couple decades of experience working with European nations on their military defense, and we end up having a 45-minute off-the-record phone chat. We start by talking for a few minutes about our personal lives, how we ended up in defense contracting, and I in journalism, where we lived, what our families were up to, yada yada yada. I pivot to why I called and I start asking

him a bunch of questions about who's interested in buying this new technology he's developing, when we might see it go to market, and how it works. I ask him questions about his boss and his colleagues. I push him to chat with me on the record for a story, and he says he'll think about it. As it turns out, though, a few weeks before I reached out to him, a Russian oligarch contacted him to inquire about the new technology. He took the call but ended it quickly after only a few minutes. Unfortunately, U.S. intelligence agencies were monitoring that oligarch. Then they put the defense contractor under surveillance, and my phone call to him was caught up in the spying dragnet. Should those intelligence agencies be able to listen to

our phone call without a warrant? Should they be able to log what was said and file it away on a database somewhere? Should that log include my personal information I shared about myself, a U.S. citizen with Fourth Amendment rights? My gut instinct is a hard no. No federal agent should be able to listen to my private phone calls without a warrant. I'm an American citizen, and I'm afforded certain rights and privileges by living here, rights that I expect to exist regardless of whom I'm speaking to. I've always felt strongly about privacy rights, and I feel even more strongly that we can't take our government's word on how narrowly they're going to interpret power like Section 702. History is too replete with

examples of them doing the opposite. At the same time, some arguments certainly give me pause. National Review's editors argued under what the right is saying that Americans getting caught up in surveillance is a simple fact of policing. They said, quote, when cops monitor a street gang, they unavoidably observe the activities of non-suspects. When DEA wiretaps a drug lord, it unavoidably intercepts conversations of family members and other bystanders. These incidental consequences are factored into statutory and court-prescribed minimization limitations on their use and retention. Similarly, the communications of Americans are incidentally monitored in foreign

surveillance and are stored in a database. I suppose that all this is true, and it's a worthwhile thing to weigh when considering our own privacy rights. I'll also concede that there's a lot I don't know about surveillance. Maybe if I got to sit in on a single intelligence briefing and realize how useful this monitoring was to protecting Americans, I'd feel differently. President Biden certainly seemed to think that was the case when he urged classified briefings to be sent to senators ahead of this vote to show them the crucial role these spy programs play in our national security. A few days later, of course, the Senate voted to reauthorize Section 702 with minimal changes. Here's the problem, though. The FBI has abused this authority.

As Elizabeth Goitling put it under what the left is saying, FBI agents have conducted warrantless searches of Section 702-acquired data for the communications of Black Lives Matter protesters, members of Congress, journalists, and in one case, more than 19,000 donors to a congressional campaign. If you brought in the criticism to FISA as a whole, you can add January 6 protesters and Donald Trump's campaign to that list too. One federal judge described the FBI's abuses of Section 702 as persistent and widespread. Even while operating with wide latitude, like being able to perform searches if they quote, reasonably believe they will uncover foreign intelligence or evidence of a crime, the FBI has still violated the rules. On top of all that,

I'm not totally convinced any of the terrorist plots that have been stymied or the other threats to the U.S. that have been spotted necessitated allowing federal agents to gather Americans' communications without a warrant. I imagine some, if not all of them, could have been detected without infringing on the rights of U.S. citizens. Even conceding that private communications from Americans might get caught up in day-to-day policing and that this program might genuinely keep us safer, something still feels deeply wrong about Section 702. In trying to imagine a healthy foreign surveillance program, the instances of Americans having their communications warrantlessly monitored should be scant, not abundant. The

evidence of crime stopping should be profuse, not sparse. And FBI abuses should be non-existent, not persistent or widespread. In the end, some senators, like Dick Durbin, have the information we don't and still want to rein Section 702 in. And amendments like the one Durbin proposed were simple and to the point. If you want access to Americans' communications, you need a warrant. I don't think that should be controversial, and it's a shame our representatives weren't capable of making it law. We'll be right back after this quick break. All right, that is it for my take, which brings us to your questions answered. This one is a

question from Brittany in New York. Brittany said, I recently saw that you were hiring for a new video intern. I've also noticed from going to your event that your team is mostly male and mostly white. Given the political debate about it, I was curious what you think about diversity hires and how important it is to you to have a diverse team. First of all, thanks for the question. First, my position here is actually pretty simple. I'm going to hire the best people for the job. I don't really have any other option. Our team is small, our budget is tight, and we are fighting to survive in one of the most difficult industries in the world where media outlets with multi-million dollar investments or long-standing audiences are collapsing all

around us. Tangle is a bootstrap company that started with one person, me, writing an email. Now it's five people working in close quarters. Any addition to the team needs to be someone who can do their job well, wear multiple hats, and get along with our crew. To be totally blunt, I don't really care what their race or gender is. I also think it's important for me to answer this question by pointing something else out. Diversity is not just measured in race or gender. Especially for work like ours, I think class diversity, racial diversity, political diversity, and quote-unquote background diversity are important too. For example, one of our team members is white,

but is also a Canadian immigrant whose parents are Polish and escaped communism when she was a kid. I think that kind of background adds something unique in a different way racial diversity might add something unique. In other words, when I post a job position and interview someone for the job, I'm interested in whether they add diversity of experience, ideas, skills. All things equal, of course, having racial or gender diversity is great too, but that's usually because people of different racial or gender backgrounds often have different life experiences and perspectives, which is what makes their diversity valuable. I'd also add that it isn't even as simple as wanting to hire a diverse team and doing it.

For instance, I once offered a job to a conservative Cuban-American. He turned the offer down for a different job he wanted more. So how do you tally that? Anyway, I understand why some companies, especially larger ones, advertise their desire for more diverse workplaces. And I understand why you asked the question. I think companies and newsrooms should strive for diverse workplaces because I think diversity is great for teams and good for building strong companies. But again, I say that while defining diversity broadly, not just in terms of race. At Tangle, our sole mission is to find the best people and put them to work because anything less would hurt our company. So that's basically my answer. And by the way, we are hiring right now. And there's a link to our job opening in today's episode description.

All right, next up is our under the radar section. Members of Generation Z are picking up a new nickname, the tool belt generation. With the cost of college skyrocketing while the financial upside of a four-year degree becomes more contested, many members of Gen Z are instead opting for trade schools. Leaders of vocational nonprofits are insisting that they're seeing a major shift, with skilled trade making a comeback. Folks have really prioritized that college education is a path to the middle class and a path to cushy job offices, Lisa Countryman-Corez, the CEO of Jewish Vocational Service, said.

Over the last 10 to 15 years, we are seeing a trend among young people opting out of universities. Just the crushing debt of college is becoming a barrier in and of itself. Data from the National Student Clearinghouse Research Center shows the number of students enrolling in vocational-focused community colleges went up 16 percent from 2022 to 2023. NPR has the story, and there's a link to it in today's episode description. Alright, next up is the numbers section. The percentage of articles in the president's daily brief that contained Section 702 information in 2022 was 59%, according to the Office of the Director of National Intelligence. The percentage decrease in FBI searches for information on people in the

U.S. under Section 702 between November 2021 and November 2022 was 94%. The total number of FBI queries on people in the U.S. during that period was 119,383. The approximate number of times the FBI improperly searched for Section 702 information in 2020 and early 2021 was 278,000, according to court documents released in 2023. The FBI's rate of noncompliance for Section 702 queries between 2021 and 2022 was 1.7%. The percentage of Americans who said they believe it is sometimes necessary to sacrifice their rights and freedoms to prevent terrorism was 48% in a June 2023 poll from the Associated Press. The percentage of Americans who said that in 2011 was 64%.

All right, and last but not least, our have a nice day story. Researchers at the Linköping University in Sweden, and I'm sorry if I'm mispronouncing that, have developed a method for synthesizing hundreds of new materials that are so thin they're practically two-dimensional. Materials that are incredibly thin, only a few atoms thick, exhibit unique properties that make them appealing for energy storage, catalysis, and water purification due to their large surface area in relation to their volume or weight. In general, 2D materials have shown great potential for an enormous number of applications. You can imagine capturing carbon dioxide or purifying water, for example, says Johanna Rosen, a professor in materials physics at the university.

Now, it's about scaling up the synthesis and doing it in a sustainable way. Science Daily has the story, and there's a link to it in today's episode description. All right, everybody, that is it for today's podcast. As always, if you want to support our work, you can do so by going to retangle.com forward slash membership. We're a bit behind this month on our growth goals, despite the incredible month we're having as a team. Our memberships are actually a little bit stagnant. So if you've been listening to this podcast for a while and you're enjoying our work and you want to see this work continue, I very much encourage you to go to our website and

become a paying member. It would be much appreciated. And we'll be right back here same time tomorrow. Have a good one. Peace. Our podcast is written by me, Isaac Saul, and edited and engineered by John Law. The script is edited by our managing editor, Ari Weitzman, Will Kabak, Bailey Saul, and Sean Brady. The logo for our podcast was designed by Magdalena Bokova, who is also our social media manager.

Music for the podcast was produced by Diet75. And if you're looking for more from Tangle, please go to readtangle.com and check out our website. Based on Charles Yu's award-winning book, Interior Chinatown follows the story of Willis Wu, a background character trapped in a police procedural who dreams about a world beyond Chinatown. When he inadvertently becomes a witness to a crime, Willis begins to unravel a criminal web, his family's buried history, and what it feels like to be in the spotlight. Interior Chinatown is streaming November 19th, only on Disney+.

The flu remains a serious disease. Last season, over 102,000 influenza cases have been reported across Canada, which is nearly double the historic average of 52,000 cases. What can you do this flu season? Talk to your pharmacist or doctor about getting a flu shot. Consider FluCellVax Quad and help protect yourself from the flu. It's the first cell-based flu vaccine authorized in Canada for ages six months and older, and it may be available for free in your province. Side effects and allergic reactions can occur, and 100% protection is not guaranteed. Learn more at FluCellVax.ca.