Tangle - Democratic socialists headline races across the country.

Starting point is 00:00:00 From executive producer Isaac Saul, this is Tangle. Good morning, good afternoon, and good evening. And welcome to the Tangle podcast, a place where you get views from across the political spectrum, some independent thinking, and a little bit of our take. It is a Tuesday. I am senior editor, Will Keeback, and it's great to have you here with us. Today we're gearing up to discuss a topic that's a little bit more personal than the ones I typically write about. I'll say more about that soon, but if you've been reading the news closely over the past few weeks,

Starting point is 00:00:46 you've probably seen the phrase democratic socialist candidate more often than usual. And I'm not just talking about Bernie Sanders, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, or Zaron Mamdani either. Political hopefuls associated with the Democratic Socialists of America, the DSA, have been rising in the polls or winning primaries outright over the past few months. and that has generated a flurry of commentary about whether the Democratic Party is in the midst of a leftward swing. So in today's edition, we're going to look at some of those recent races and explore what they tell us about the political ecosystem heading into the midterms, particularly on the Democratic side. And I'll also share a bit about my own political evolution and how it influences my current thoughts on DSA. We also have an under-the-radar story a little bit later in the episode about fentanyl and drug trafficking and the DEA in New Mexico that was pretty shocking for the entire Tangle editorial team when we read it. So stay tuned for that.

Starting point is 00:01:49 And one final message before we get into today's main topic. We have a new interview out today with executive editor Isaac Saul and Tim Urban, the creator of the Wait But Why blog and the author of the book, What's Our Problem, as well as a forthcoming book next year. year. Tim is somebody who we really admire over at Tangle. His blog is one that we've all read for several years, and his book speaks to many of the same themes that we tackle at Tangle and is core to our mission. In this interview, Isaac and Tim discuss why otherwise intelligence people sometimes feel unable to resist the temptation to fall into an echo chamber, and also how some get out of that echo chamber. The conversation flows from there. It touches on some familiar themes and also some new and novel ones, and we think you're really going to enjoy it. So head on over to our YouTube

Starting point is 00:02:38 channel to check it out and give it a watch. All right, with that, I'm going to hand it over to John for today's topic, and then I'll be back in a bit to read my take. John, over to you. Thanks, Will, and welcome, everybody. Here are your quick hits for today. First up, Treasury Secretary Scott Bassent announced that the Trump administration will lift sanctions on Iranian oil exports for 60 days, citing progress in peace discussions. Vice President J.D. Vance also said that Iran had agreed to allow United Nations inspectors to visit nuclear facilities, but Iran said no new commitments had been made. Number two, the Senate voted 85 to 5 to pass a bill targeting housing affordability. The bill now heads to the House where it is expected to pass.

Starting point is 00:03:28 Number three, former Federal Reserve Chair Alan Greenspan passed away at the age of 100. Greenspan served five terms as chair under four presidents. Number four, a federal judge blocked the Trump administration from creating a federal database of voter information, including social security numbers and citizenship status as part of a crackdown on alleged non-citizen voting. And number five, Florida's emergency management director reportedly instructed contractors in Florida to begin a full demobilization of the state's immigration detention facility, known as Alligator Alcatraz, formally shutting down operations at the center after the last detainees left last week.

Starting point is 00:04:19 Well, a different kind of politician keeps winning in American cities, the Democratic Socialist, and this week another major victory in the race to become the next mayor of Washington, D.C. Ahead of the 26 midterm elections, candidates aligned with the Democratic Socialists of America have broken through in primary races for local and national seats, headlined by figures like Senator Bernie Sanders, Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, and Representative Rashida Talib, Democratic Socialist candidates have challenged incumbents in strongly Democratic areas, seeking to pull the party toward more progressive positions on key issues. For context, Democratic Socialists believe in the political philosophy of socialism, which holds

Starting point is 00:05:00 that the state should redistribute wealth and take an active role in societal issues. Unlike socialists or communists, Democratic socialists advocate for these goals through the democratic process rather than revolution. DSA traces its origins to the early 1970s, when its leaders organized in opposition to the Vietnam War and later the rise of Ronald Reagan. Today, DSA describes its mission as replacing capitalism with a democratic socialist system, exemplified by policies such as single-payer Medicare for all, defunding the police and the Green New New Deal. In addition to Ocasio-Cortez, Taliban, N. Sanders, New York City Mayor Zoran Mamdani has emerged as one of the faces of DSA in the United States.

Starting point is 00:05:38 Mamdani defeated former New York Governor Andrew Cuomo in the city's mayor-eural primary last year, then defeated him again when Cuomo ran as an independent in the general election. Since then, Mamdani has endorsed DSA candidates in local and federal elections in New York City, including Claire Valadez and Dary Elisa Avelier, who is challenging a five-term incumbent Democrat in New York's 13th Congressional District Primary this Tuesday. Separately, last Thursday, D.S.A. endorsed Janice Lewis George won the Democratic primary for mayor of Washington, D.C., making her the presumptive favorite to win the general election in the heavily Democratic city. Louis George won the primary by over 18 points, with particularly strong results at polling sites where over 60% of the population is under 35. The week prior, President Donald Trump said that the federal government may intervene in Washington, D.C.'s operations if Lewis George becomes mayor. Elsewhere in the Los Angeles mayoral election, DSA City Council member Nethea Rahman advanced to a runoff against Mayor Karen Bass, setting up a general election race between the progressive challenger and the incumbent Democrat.

Starting point is 00:06:43 In Maine, Graham Platner, a progressive Democrat who previously aligned himself with DSA, recently won the state's Democratic Senate primary. Today, we'll explore the rise of DSA and DSA-aligned candidates in the United States with views from the left and the right. And then, senior editor Will Kback will give his take. We'll be right back after this quick break. All right, first up, let's start with what the left is saying. Many on the left suggest Democrats should embrace new candidates.

Starting point is 00:07:26 Some argue that socialist policies, will continue to be popular among urban constituencies. Others warn that far-left candidates can't successfully run in competitive races. In the New York Times, Matthew Iglesias argued, the Democrats need a candidate shake-up. The 2024 elections showed that the party is simply not large enough to command a majority of the country, Iglesias wrote. Building a new and hopefully larger tent requires a different set of skills,

Starting point is 00:07:53 more willingness to jeopardize parts of the existing coalition, more outsider personnel, and ultimately someone willing to run the kind of risky underdog campaigns that put Donald Trump and Barack Obama in the White House. Rebuilding the party and bringing in new people with less investment in things as they are will help the party decide what it is about, which policy commitments are genuinely central and which merit flexibility or abandonment, Iglesias said. Moving in the direction of fresher faces is going to necessarily mean more ideological conflict rather than less. The process will be contentious and will make existing party leaders uncomfortable.

Starting point is 00:08:30 In the American prospect, Harold Meyerson described why cities go socialist. Momdani's, Louis-Georg's and Rahman's political base isn't confined to DSA members, Meyerson wrote. The two issues that both Mamdani and Louis-George most stressed were making childcare and homes affordable, issues that all but define the politics of young city residents, issues that highlight the market failures of current American capitalism, and the need for higher taxes on the wealthy to provide badly needed social necessities, which is why the future of most American big cities, most certainly those that attract younger residents, is likely to be socialist democratic and often run by avowed socialist, Meyerson said. The Bernies, Momdonis,

Starting point is 00:09:10 and AOCs won't be the Democratic Party's lonesome ends. They will be the party's urban wing. The sooner the Democrats understand that, and the sooner they embrace many of that wing's policies, however they choose to label them and themselves, the better. In CNN, Ronald Brownstein said that this year's primaries are reshaping the Democratic Party. The struggle over control of the Democratic Party's direction has roared to new heights this year. The confrontations have not produced a knockout victory for either side, Brownstein wrote. On balance, though, the left so far has outpointed the center in these contests, an advantage that could widen if several Mamdani endorsed congressional candidates win in New York as is expected.

Starting point is 00:09:50 But Democratic centrists correctly point out that a significant majority, of the successful progressive primary candidates are winning in safely democratic areas. In the competitive seats that will decide control of the House and Senate, the party still largely relies on moderate nominees. And for those candidates, the left's rise, even in safe seats, could prove an unwelcome complication, Branstien said. In reliably blue places, Democratic primary voters can support the most liberal candidates without worrying if they will win the general election. In the races that count the most, electability remains likely to Trump ideology. All right, that is it for what the left is saying, which brings us to what the

Starting point is 00:10:37 right is saying. Many on the right are concerned about DSA candidates growing influence. Some predict that support for progressive politicians will wane once they start governing. Others say socialist policies don't work without force. In the Daily Signal, Jarrett Stepman suggested the Democratic base wants full-throated leftism. Democrats are quickly moving away from denying their socialist connections to openly embracing them. That's a lesson to be learned from a clear trend taking hold in America's most populous blue bastions, Stepan wrote. The Democratic Party has lurched so far to the left that in the most secure bastions, it's being taken over by open socialists and Marxists, and there seems to be

Starting point is 00:11:16 little resistance. They are using the enthusiasm and organization of groups like the Democratic Socialists of America to out-hustle and replace the old party establishment. And so far, it's working, at least in places that Democrats already comfortably control. They are now going to lean into ideas like wealth and property confiscation into the concept of borderless society that rejects any kind of immigration law enforcement into the kind of radical ideas that the party may have wished for but shrewdly kept quiet about Stepman said. If this trend continues, they soon won't be the insurgents anymore.

Starting point is 00:11:49 They'll be the establishment. They'll have control of a national party with a very clear goal of finally bringing socialism to every corner of the country. In the Washington Post, Megan McArdle said, wait for reality to set in. It is a heady moment for the left because socialism's tainted brand has recovered from the vivid failures of the Soviet Union, McCartle wrote. The challenge is that socialism's rise is spiky, concentrated in blue cities where affluent but often downwardly mobile college graduates cluster.

Starting point is 00:12:18 That's a problem for the Democratic Party, where the excesses of progressive governance are helping to make the party's brand toxic in the less true blue areas. But it's also a challenge for the socialists, because cities are the hardest place to execute big plans for new taxing and spending, McArdle said. Socialists may wax lyrical about a Nordic-style welfare state, but those states are paid for by heavily taxing the middle class, an idea that is unlikely to gain much purchase with the educated base of the Democratic Socialists of America. Today's college-educated elite is voting for more public services, not less disposable income. In the Hill, Omzari Galashvoli argued,

Starting point is 00:12:55 most Democrats are frighteningly wrong about socialism. At protests across American cities, demonstrators have carried Soviet flags, the hammer and sickle on red cloth, as symbols of resistance, colloquially, wrote. I'm not going to answer them with statistics or economic theory. I will instead tell them my family's story. In February 1951, my grandfather's family was loaded onto a cattle car with hundreds of others. Many people were beaten with rifle butts. A young man maddened by thirst at one point jumped from his wagon to reach for water from a stream.

Starting point is 00:13:25 soldiers shot him on the spot. Americans associate the word socialism with equality and government services, not with deportation lists, sealed cattle wagons, or children hauling earth until they die of heat, Glashley said. But socialism, in practice, does not work without force and brutality, even if you give it nice adjectives like Democratic. Socialism is not really a policy or an economic system. It is not Scandinavian.

Starting point is 00:13:50 It is a machine whose only function is to destroy anyone sufficiently capable, principled, or stubborn enough to threaten those who operate it. It does this legally, bureaucratically, and when necessary, with bullets. All right, let's head over to Will for his take. Thanks, John. All right, this is Will back here to read my take. Ten years ago, I would have proudly told anyone who would listen that I was a Democratic socialist.

Starting point is 00:14:28 Allow me to take you back to that time. It was a wintry Midwestern afternoon in January 2016, and I was a senior in high school riding in the back of a coach bus rumbling along I-35 from Minneapolis to Des Moines, chattering away with my politically inclined classmates. We were participating in a school program that brought interested students to the Iowa caucuses in presidential election years, and for three days we canvassed for a candidate of our choice, attended rallies for Democratic and Republican candidates, and observed the proceedings on caucus night. I chose to spend my time with the Bernie Sanders campaign. Those days were very cool for me

Starting point is 00:15:12 and very interesting and sparked my interest in politics that continues to this day. But at that time, the coolest thing of all for me was the chance to doork and get out the vote for Bernie. For months leading up to the trip, I had become enamored with the Vermont Senator and his calls for reducing wealth inequality and reforming the health care system and pursuing more aggressive strategies to combat climate change. These were all issues that I felt very deep in my core. I also liked that he unapologetically called himself a Democratic socialist, and I thought that people who viewed that label negatively just didn't understand what it really meant. I would say things like, it doesn't mean like socialism socialism. It's just about electing people

Starting point is 00:15:54 who want things to be fairer for everyone. And on caucus night in Iowa, I was in the front row at the Sanders rally, I got to shake his hand after he spoke, and we all felt full of hope that this moment was the start of bigger things to come. Now, flashback forward to the present. Today, I no longer see myself as part of that movement, and frankly, I'm a lot less assured in my political views than I was back in high school. Still, I understand the draw of the Democratic socialist candidates popping up across the United States. For many voters, particularly younger ones, socialism isn't the boogeyman than it used to be. In fact, many say they prefer it to capitalism. Plus, the past year offers plenty for these young voters to be excited about. Aside from Bernie's enduring influence, Alexandria

Starting point is 00:16:40 Acacio Cortez is a likely 2028 presidential contender. Zoran Mamdani is confidently leading New York City at the start of his mayoral term. And in just the past few weeks, Democratic Socialist candidates have excelled in primaries in Los Angeles and Washington, D.C. In contemporary, U.S. politics, labels that once were considered disqualifying matter less than ever. Branding President Trump a felon did nothing to stop him from winning re-election in 2024. Democrat Graham Platner and Republican Ken Paxton each just won high-profile Senate primaries despite well-publicized and wide-ranging controversies. This dynamic paired with contempt for the second Trump administration and dissatisfaction or outright

Starting point is 00:17:25 disgust with mainstream Democrats' response to it has created fertile ground for democratic socialists to gain a foothold. So is DSA a response to the MAGA movement? I think it's a yes and a no. The two movements do have undeniable similarities. Both are, at their roots, economic populist movements. They both seize on an anti-establishment framing.

Starting point is 00:17:50 The swamp and globalists on one side, the billionaire class and corporate elites on the other. Both have effectively leveraged simple, repeatable phrases to galvanize their bases, build the wall, America first, Medicare for all, tax the rich, and so on. Both frame their movements in binary terms, Patriots versus traders or workers versus billionaires. And they both enjoy a certain zeal in taking on institutions once viewed as political power brokers, the media, the experts, the national party leadership. Their differences, of course, are stark.

Starting point is 00:18:27 MAGA sees most issues through a national identity lens, while Democratic socialists filter their worldview through class and equity. Additionally, while the movement may have borrowed some of MAGA's playbook, or vice versa, it is ultimately working toward very different goals. And perhaps most saliently, Democratic socialism is not defined by a single political leader, but rather a nationwide network of candidates at all levels of government.

Starting point is 00:18:55 All of this leaves me feeling conflicted when assessing DSA's trajectory in this political moment. On one hand, we need to be careful not to extrapolate our sense of the national mood from the results of local elections in deep blue areas. The DSA candidates in Tuesday's New York City primaries haven't even secured nominations yet, while Nithia Rahman is still an underdog against Karen Bass in Los Angeles.

Starting point is 00:19:22 New York City and Seattle have Democratic Socialist mayors, with Washington, D.C., almost certainly soon to follow. But these are places where more progressive candidates already succeed. And as Megan McArdle noted under what the right is saying, politicians are often forced to trade idealism for pragmatism once they have power, which can also lead to disillusionment and infighting within the movements that prize ideological purity. of which I'd say DSA is one. On the other hand, these urban senators are the most populous places in the country,

Starting point is 00:19:53 and millions of people rallying around these politicians could represent the early signs of an earnest political shift. The Democratic Party appears ripe for a shake-up, and DSA-or-D-A-adjacent candidates messaging seems to be resonating with the party's most engaged voters, particularly on immigration, Israel, and health care. Here again, the MAGA movement is in charge. How many Republican politicians felt a false sense of security headed into 2016, thinking

Starting point is 00:20:23 GOP voters would never roll the dice on someone as risky as Trump? I get the sense that Democratic voters are equally dissatisfied with their party leadership as Republicans were in 2016, and they're happy to look elsewhere, electability be damned. Take Graham Platner, who isn't formerly DSA, but whose messaging is very similar. I've spoken with several friends in Maine who said they happily cast a Democratic primary ballot for the embattled oyster farmer because they think he can provide a necessary jolt to a system they feel is increasingly overrun with corruption and controlled by elderly lawmakers clinging to power. And I can understand that position. But like I said, I am conflicted. A part of me, that 18-year-old self, hungers for something, anything new from the left.

Starting point is 00:21:12 Another part, call it my tangle brain, thinks that the Democratic Socialist movement isn't representing something new, but a continuation of a form of ideologically rigid politics that has contributed to our current divisions and won't help us get back on track. Now, those dueling feelings also suggest two potential pathways for DSA candidates in the coming months. In the first pathway, the movement continues gaining momentum, with bold ideas on housing in particular. bringing broader attention and support. In New York City, Mamdani has released a plan to build 200,000 new homes in the next decade, and Valdez, his potential ally in Congress, has put forward proposals to create a federal housing developer and a national housing construction fund. Of course, these aren't overnight solutions, but they strike me as the kind of bold thinking

Starting point is 00:22:04 that could garner both attention and support. If DSA becomes associated with housing policy reform in the way that MAGA became associated with stronger immigration enforcement, its candidates could gain traction beyond blue cities. Again, labels matter less than ever, and voters might not care about the Democratic Socialist tag if they think that a candidate just has good ideas on housing affordability. In 2016, Trump's huge rally turnouts and polling strength in the early primary states were harbingers of his eventual success. And right now, Sanders and A.S. Sanders and A.E. are drawing large crowds of their own in their fighting oligarchy tour, and not just in the big Democratic cities either. The turnout for these kind of large-scale gatherings is another signal to

Starting point is 00:22:52 pay attention to. But Pathway 2 is what I might call the woke trap. DSA and its candidates unabashedly embraced progressive social policies like transgender rights, police reform, and abolishing ICE. At the national level, voters appeared to reject those policies in 2024, and I don't think much has changed since then, at least at the national level. Even with the unpopularity of the Trump administration, I don't see evidence of a broad appetite for this kind of social progressivism, especially when it's worn on the candidate's sleeve. Just look at how James Talleyico is trying to distance himself from 2020-era comments he made about religion and gender in the Texas Senate race.

Starting point is 00:23:32 These candidates won't be able to sell their economic vision if they're constantly having to account for their social views. Furthermore, DSA is constantly preoccupied with internal disputes and ideological purity tests. Just look at how AOC, the most promising DSA politician in the entire country, has been forced to fend off attacks from some within the organization who see her as selling out for the mainstream. Ultimately, the DSA movement has to win elections to remain relevant. And I'm not convinced that they're serious enough about making strategic compromises and concessions to succeed at the national level. But of course the 26 midterms haven't happened yet. They are fast approaching, though, and we will soon have a clearer picture of where DSA and Democratic socialism writ large stands.

Starting point is 00:24:18 Republicans unlocked their populist movement 10 years ago, and the conditions today are ripe for an equal and opposite reaction from the other side of the aisle. Over the next few months, we'll better understand whether the Mamdani's and the Romans and the Valdez's were canaries in the coal mine or deep blue outliers. We'll be right back after this quick break. All right, that is it for my take. I'm going to hand it back over to John to take us home on today's pod. And we'll talk to you tomorrow. John, over to you. Thanks, Will.

Starting point is 00:25:03 Here's your under the radar story for today, folks. Between 2023 and 2025, the Drug Enforcement Administration allowed hundreds of thousands of fentanyl pills to enter New Mexico, despite surveilling the shipments, according to a recent investigation by the Associated Press. Current and former agents said the lack of seizure was part of a tactic to bring bigger criminal cases against fentanyl traffickers in the state.

Starting point is 00:25:25 The DEA responded to the allegations in a statement saying the investigative decisions at issue were lawful, reasonable under the circumstances, and consistent with department guidance. The investigation also unearthed changes made to the DEA's fentanyl policy in 2024 that gave agents more discretion in deciding whether to seize pills or preserve an investigative

Starting point is 00:25:44 That same year, the Justice Department's Office of Professional Responsibility found that the DEA and the U.S. Attorney's Office in action regarding unseased drugs posed no specific danger to public health. While overdose deaths dropped roughly 14% nationwide last year, they rose by nearly 23% in New Mexico. The Associated Press has this story, and there's a link in today's episode description. And last but not least, our Have a Nice Day story. It had been over 20 years since the Arsenal's men's soccer team won a Premier League title. This year, they won. A hundred miles down the road, over a thousand equants who know nothing about soccer recently started repping Arsenal gear.

Starting point is 00:26:26 The team donated footless socks from their old kits to Red Wings Horse Sanctuary, which cares for horses, mules, and donkeys to protect them from insects, keeping bandages in place, and hold back their hair while their hooves are trimmed. This was one of the more unusual donations we've been offered, Nicola Knight, Red Wings' Head of Communications and Campaign said. But professional football, Ball Sox, which these days are often footless by design, can be invaluable. Nice news has this story, and there's a link in today's episode description. All right, everybody, that is it for today's episode.

Starting point is 00:26:56 As always, if you'd like to support our work, please go to retangle.com, where you can sign up for a newsletter membership, podcast membership, or a bundled membership that gets you a discount on both. We'll be right back here tomorrow. For Isaac, Will, and the rest of the crew, this is John Law signing off. Have a great day, y'all. Peace. Our executive editor and founder is me, Isaac Saul, and our executive producer is John Wall. Today's episode was edited and engineered by Dewey Thomas.

Starting point is 00:27:24 Our editorial staff is led by managing editor Ari Weitzman with senior editor Will Kayback and associate editors Audrey Moorhead, Lindsay Canuth, and Bailey Saul. Music for the podcast was produced by Diet 75. To learn more about Tangle and to sign up for a membership, please visit our website at reTangle.com.

Tangle - Democratic socialists headline races across the country.

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