Tangle - Donald Trump and Elon Musk

Starting point is 00:00:00 From Searchlight Pictures comes A Real Pain, one of the most moving and funny films of the year. Written and directed by Oscar-nominated Jesse Eisenberg and starring Eisenberg and Emmy Award winner Kieran Culkin, A Real Pain is a comedy about mismatched cousins who reunite for a tour through Poland to honor their beloved grandmother. The adventure takes a turn when the pair's old tensions resurface against the backdrop of their family history. A Real Pain was one of the buzziest titles at Sundance Film Festival this year, garnering rave reviews and acclaim from both critics and audiences alike. See A Real Pain only in theaters November 15th.

Starting point is 00:00:34 Are you sure you parked over here? Do you see it anywhere? I think it's back this way. Come on. Hey, you're going the wrong way. Feeling distracted? You're not alone. Whether renting, considering buying a home, or renewing a mortgage, many Canadians are finding it hard to focus with housing costs on their minds. For free tools and resources to help you manage your home finances and clear your head,

Starting point is 00:00:58 visit Canada.ca slash ItPaysToKnow. A message from the Government of Canada. Based on Charles Yu's award-winning book, Interior Chinatown follows the Government of Canada. families' buried history, and what it feels like to be in the spotlight. Interior Chinatown is streaming November 19th, only on Disney+. From executive producer Isaac Saul, this is Tangle. Good morning, good afternoon, and good evening, and welcome to the Tangle Podcast, a place where you get views from across the political spectrum, some independent thinking, and a little bit of Isaac's take. I'm your host, John Law, filling in for Isaac, and today we are going to be talking about Elon Musk's endorsement of Donald Trump and the influence he is having on the election.

Starting point is 00:02:10 A couple of notes before we get started. On November 5th, we're going to be hosting an in-person election night watch party in Philadelphia. This is an RSVP only ticketed event. And we're actually capping the guest list at 100 people. only ticketed event, and we're actually capping the guest list at 100 people. The entire Tangle team is going to be converging on Philly for the event, and we are hoping to meet and hang out with some readers and listeners. So we're going to have food, we're going to have beer, we're going to have games. It's going to be a fun time. And for those of you who can't make it in person, we are actually live streaming the watch party. We're going to have guests on. We'll give you updates on the election.

Starting point is 00:02:46 And it should be a pretty interesting evening, to say the least. So mark your calendars if you are in and around the Philly area. I'm talking, you know, New Jersey, Connecticut, anywhere within driving distance, Delaware. And you want to come up. RSVP, we've got a link in today's episode description. You can click there for tickets. I would hurry on that so you can guarantee your spot. Second reminder is that premium podcasts are now available.

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Starting point is 00:03:34 It's a really good time to be an early adopter to the premium podcast and support the newsletter, support Tangle, support all the work we do. There's links in today's episode description, and we hope you take advantage of this special offer. All right, with all that out of the way, let's get into today's quick hits. First up, the Supreme Court appears likely to uphold a 2022 federal rule regulating untraceable weapons or ghost guns after hearing oral arguments and a challenge to the rule yesterday. Number two, Hurricane Milton is expected to make landfall in Florida tonight as a Category 3 storm. Governor Ron DeSantis

Starting point is 00:04:15 urged residents along the western Florida Gulf Coast to evacuate. Number three, 13 states and Washington, D.C. sued TikTok, alleging the social media platform uses intentionally addictive software that harms children. Number four, the U.S. federal deficit grew to $1.8 trillion in fiscal year 2024, and the Congressional Budget Office reported that interest payments on the national debt reached $950 billion. reached $950 billion. And number five, Muhammad Bahi, a former official in New York City Mayor Eric Adams' administration, was arrested and charged with witness tampering and destruction of evidence related to illegal donations to Adams' 2021 mayoral campaign. come on up here elon he created the first major american car company in generations and his rocket company is the only reason we can now send american astronauts into space come here take over elon yes take over you know the the true test of someone's character is how they behave under fire. And we had one president who couldn't climb a flight of stairs.

Starting point is 00:05:37 And another who was fist pumping after getting shot. Fight, fight, fight. Blood coming down the face. On Saturday, Elon Musk joined former President Donald Trump at a rally in Butler, Pennsylvania, the site of the attempted assassination of Trump in July. Musk, the CEO of Tesla and SpaceX and the owner of X, formerly known as Twitter, addressed the rally's attendees and reaffirmed his support for Trump's candidacy while criticizing Democrats on a range of issues. Broadly, the speech exemplified Musk's evolution from a political moderate to an outspoken advocate for the former president. Musk's in-person cameo was his first appearance alongside Trump at a

Starting point is 00:06:21 rally. In his speech, the businessman called the 2024 election the most important election of our lifetime, suggesting that the other side wants to take away your freedom of speech. He also focused on the importance of voting, encouraging attendees to register their family and friends ahead of upcoming registration deadlines. Musk's support of the former president is a notable departure from his previously stated political views. In 2018, Musk said he was a registered independent and politically moderate, and in 2022, he said he had historically voted for Democratic candidates. As recently as 2021, he stated that he prefers to stay out of politics. Musk has also trumpeted positions typically associated with progressives, such as universal basic income and international efforts to address climate change. Musk's shift towards the Republican Party has coincided with his conservative stances

Starting point is 00:07:10 on topics like immigration and LGBTQ issues. Last week, the Wall Street Journal reported that Musk began donating to Republican candidates and causes earlier than previously known, including giving tens of millions of dollars to groups associated with Trump aide Stephen Miller and Florida Governor Ron DeSantis. However, Musk has a more checkered history with Trump personally. Musk said he voted for Hillary Clinton in 2016 and Joe Biden in 2020, and has regularly criticized Trump's policies during his term. The two seemed to reconcile in 2020, only to publicly feud again in 2022. Then, in May 2023, Musk helped launch DeSantis' presidential campaign in an online event

Starting point is 00:07:46 marred by technical glitches which Trump mocked. However, after DeSantis dropped out in January, Musk maintained a relationship with Trump and his team, reportedly meeting with them in March to discuss fundraising. Shortly after the attempted assassination in July, Musk announced his endorsement of the former president and hosted a two-hour discussion with Trump on X. Musk also reportedly pledged to commit $45 million a month to Trump's campaign through his America PAC, but has denied this report. This week, the PAC announced that it was offering cash payouts to people who referred registered voters to sign a petition pledging to support the First and Second Amendments with the goal of securing the signatures of one million voters in seven key swing states. Additionally, The Guardian reported that the America PAC currently has 300 to 400 canvassers

Starting point is 00:08:34 on the ground advocating for Trump in seven swing states. Today, we'll explore views from the left and the right on the evolving relationship between Trump and Musk and its potential impact on the 2024 election. And then, Isaac's take. We'll be right back after this quick break. The flu remains a serious disease. Last season, over 102,000 influenza cases have been reported across Canada, which is nearly double the historic average of 52,000 cases.

Starting point is 00:09:12 What can you do this flu season? Talk to your pharmacist or doctor about getting a flu shot. Consider FluCellVax Quad and help protect yourself from the flu. It's the first cell-based flu vaccine authorized in Canada for ages 6 months and older, and it may be available for free in your province. Side effects and allergic reactions can occur, and 100% protection is not guaranteed. Learn more at flucellvax.ca. Whether renting, renewing a mortgage, or considering buying a home,

Starting point is 00:09:38 everybody has housing costs on their minds. For free tools and resources to help you manage your home finances, visit canada.ca slash itpaystoknow. manage your home finances, visit Canada.ca slash it pays to know. A message from the Government of Canada. All right, first up, let's start with what the left is saying. The left criticizes Musk's decision to back Trump, arguing that he has undermined his legacy as a visionary leader. Some suggest Trump and Musk practiced a flawed brand of populism. Others say Musk and other tech executives have shifted toward Trump out of self-interest. In MSNBC, Eamon Moyadene said Elon Musk's Trump rally appearance just sealed his legacy. Two years ago, when billionaire Elon Musk

Starting point is 00:10:23 bought what was once called Twitter, he vowed to keep it a non-biased platform. In fact, that was his mission statement. Instead, Musk used his immense influence on his own platform to tell his followers to vote for Republicans in the 2022 midterms. He also voiced his support for Florida Governor Ron DeSantis and the Republican presidential primary, Moyadine said. After the campaigns of Musk's preferred candidates, DeSantis and later Vivek Ramaswamy, went down in flames, the billionaire planned a spring trip to Mar-a-Lago.

Starting point is 00:10:51 By July, we learned Musk was already donating a sizable amount to a political group working to elect Trump. That brings us to Sunday, when Trump took to the podium again in Butler,

Starting point is 00:11:01 nearly three months after the failed assassination attempt. Except this time, Trump was joined by his friend Musk, the same man who once proclaimed that he would keep his social media platform politically neutral, and the same man who once stated Trump wasn't the right candidate to lead this country, Moideen said. What happened on that stage on Sunday in Butler will be the legacy of Elon Musk. The man once seen as a tech visionary, a real-life Tony Stark, will now be known as the man who traded in his reputation and his self-professed principles to become nothing more than a reactionary Lex Luthor in a MAGA hat.

Starting point is 00:11:32 In The Atlantic, Tom Nichols wrote about the phony populism of Trump and Musk. Musk has presented himself on his own platform as a champion of the voiceless and the oppressed, but his behavior reveals him as an enemy of speech that isn't in his own interest, Nichols wrote. What happened in Butler over the weekend, however, was not some unique American moment. Around the world, fascinatingly wealthy people are hoodwinking ordinary voters, warning that dark forces, always an indistinct they and them, are conspiring to take away their rights and turn their nation into an immense ghetto full of undesirables. These movements are all remarkably alike.

Starting point is 00:12:12 They claim to represent the common voter, especially the forgotten people and the dispossessed. But in reality, the base voters for these groups are not the poorest or the most disadvantaged in their society, Nichols wrote. Musk, for his part, is the perfect addition to this crew. Rich beyond imagination, he still has the wheedling effect of a needy youngster who requires and demands attention. Like Trump, he seems unable to believe that although money can buy many things, luxury digs, expensive lawyers, obsequious staff, it cannot buy respect. For people such as Musk and Trump, this popular rejection is baffling and enraging. In the New York Times, Chris Hughes asked, why do people like Elon Musk and love Donald Trump? It would be easy to write off tech's rightward drift as nothing more than the rich acting in their economic self-interest. But Silicon Valley has always been driven by profit, and it hasn't tilted Republicans since

Starting point is 00:12:59 the 1980s. Even now, it remains largely Democratic, Hughes said. Mr. Trump appeals to some Silicon Valley elites because they identify with the man. To them, he is a fellow victim of the state, unjustly persecuted for his bold ideas. Practically, he is also the shield they need to escape accountability. Mr. Trump has threatened Democratic norms and spread disinformation. He could even set off a recession. But he won't challenge the ability to build the technology they like, no matter the social cost. These leaders are betting they can sway Mr. Trump to their ideas through public support and financial backing. And they might be right.

Starting point is 00:13:34 Once a critic of cryptocurrency, he has shifted his opposition regulation after crypto executives donated to his campaign. Mr. Trump recently proposed a government efficiency commission, an idea Mr. Musk floated to him only weeks earlier, Hughes wrote. As much as they want to influence Mr. Trump's policies, they also want to strike back at the Biden-Harris administration, which they believe has unfairly targeted their industry. All right, that is it for what the left is saying, which brings us to what the right is saying. The right praises Musk for political views that seem attuned to the concerns of regular Americans.

Starting point is 00:14:16 Some say Musk is supporting Trump on principle and at the expense of his own business interests. Others argue Musk has embraced the worst of Trump's politics. In Red State, Brandon Morris explored why Elon Musk is the worst of Trump's politics. In Red State, Brandon Morse explored why Elon Musk is such a powerful player in politics. Tech CEOs often find themselves at the mercy of politicians. When they say jump, they ask how high. However, Musk's power and personality is such that politicians actually fear him to a certain extent, Morse wrote. Why? Well, it's not just because he's become something of a central figure

Starting point is 00:14:45 in public discourse through X and his community notes feature. It's because there's a very large amount of people who respect and like Musk to the point where his political opinions actually have weight. Musk might be a successful billionaire, but he's always had a penchant for being one of the people. Musk does not have the cold exterior trying to appear warm and personable. He legitimately is that way. The man will wait in the conversations with people as if he's just one of the folks, Morris said.

Starting point is 00:15:09 While many might hate him for backing Donald Trump, his political influence cannot be denied. It's become so influential that there are rumors circulating around that Musk might very well play a part in our political system directly. This rumor truly picked up steam once Donald Trump made a comment that maybe he would bring Musk on to help him make government more efficient, to a point where it could look and function a bit differently. In PJ Media, Scott Pinsker wrote about the remarkable evolution of Elon Musk. Register to vote, okay? Musk told the audience. And get everyone you know to register to vote. If they don't, this will be the last election. That's my prediction. With those words, Musk demonstrated his newfound proficiency at political jujitsu, taking the Democrats'

Starting point is 00:15:51 asinine assertion that democracy is on the ballot and flipping it back on them, Pinsker said. He's not doing it to make more money. I don't even know if money is a meaningful metric when you're already worth $250 billion. That's not his motivation. If anything, being pro-MAGA will fatally stigmatize the Tesla brand amongst those most likely to buy one. Agree or disagree with Musk's principles, but his pro-MAGA actions represent the most extraordinary profiles and courage in American business history.

Starting point is 00:16:18 Musk is risking more than anyone else because even if he wins, his businesses will lose. But he doesn't care because he believes he's right, Pinsker wrote. Over the past few years, Musk has influenced strategy in the Russia-Ukraine war and told the entire country of Brazil to get bent. Now he might just be the deciding factor in a razor-closed contest between Trump and Harris. With the power and influence he's earned via his work ethic, vision, and business acumen, he's less like a private citizen and more like an independent nation-state.

Starting point is 00:16:47 In The Dispatch, Nick Cattagio discussed Elon Musk and the arc of right-wing media. Various pathologies of modern populism can be seen in how Musk has managed Twitter, starting with how easily his idealism tends to yield when it conflicts with his grubby interests. The man who touted Twitter as a civilization-saving bastion of free speech has colluded in censorship by authoritarian regimes. The man who vowed Twitter would no longer suppress truthful political news like the story about Hunter Biden's laptop before the 2020 election has done that himself lately to protect his preferred candidate, Catozio said. Elon has also allowed anti-elitism to trump more important civic concerns, like separating truth from fiction.

Starting point is 00:17:26 Musk's arc as a media entrepreneur will follow the same arc as most other right-wing media figures, first exaggerating the corruption of the mainstream press, and then treating that exaggeration as a moral license to behave more ruthlessly than they do. Instead of improving public discourse by undertaking it to make it more truthful and virtuous, he's improved it by exploiting his power over it to infect vicious wounds on his political enemies. All right, that is it for what the left and the right are saying, which brings us to Isaac's take. Just a reminder, this is Isaac's opinion, and I'm just reading it in the first person. So on the face of it, this allegiance seems like a huge win for Donald Trump. Richest man in the world backing you? Check.

Starting point is 00:18:17 Owns and operates one of the largest and most influential social media networks, where he is one of the most visible users and will be signal boosting your message in the run-up to the election? Check. A technocrat with both pro-business and pro-environment bona fides backing your campaign? Check. And no doubt, the first and last points of Musk's endorsement are that his platform and his cash are going to provide huge benefits to Trump down the home stretch of the race. But that support comes with enormous caveats. Musk makes for an unusual bedfellow. Before Trump entered the political scene, Musk was straightforwardly on the left.

Starting point is 00:18:51 And even now, his belief in the urgency of environmental protections remains unchanged. Remember, Musk is so desperate to save the environment, he thinks we need to colonize Mars. Yet he's thrown in with Trump, despite the Republican Party platform not mentioning climate change or the environment once, and despite all the ways Trump has previously disparaged him. Musk was once also a vocal Obama supporter, who then said he'd support Biden and

Starting point is 00:19:15 insisted Trump should sail off into the sunset. Even though his support for Trump today is downright enthusiastic, he has backed into this position somewhat. Musk has framed his embrace of Trump as less of an endorsement of the right, but as a condemnation of the left. In 2022, he posted a meme saying that his politics have stayed the same while most liberals have bolted to the left, leaving people like him behind. In reality, though, Musk's views and the issues he focuses on have changed in the past few years, which leads me to believe that Musk's celebrity influence may not drive as many people over to Trump's camp as it seems. For starters, Musk is almost as polarizing a figure as Trump.

Starting point is 00:19:52 From a pure favorability perspective, Musk could actually hurt the Republican nominee's ability to connect with moderates and independents. A recent NBC News poll found that Musk boasts an impressive plus 48 among Republicans, but is dragged by an incredible minus 73 among Republicans, but is dragged by an incredible minus 73 among Democrats, as well as an underwhelming net minus 5% with independents. My own story might actually be indicative of the risk here. I cheered Musk's proposed free speech absolutism when he bought Twitter, now X, and was optimistic when the news broke that he wanted a large role at the company. I read the Twitter files with genuine appreciation and was impressed by the access he granted to so many reporters for that project.

Starting point is 00:20:28 But now I see the platform as unambiguously worse than it was before Musk took over. Threaded replies are filled with spam, my followers are littered with bots, and the send is mired in misinformation and disinformation, some of which Musk himself advances into the public spotlight. Just yesterday, he shared a claim that FEMA was funneling funds towards unauthorized migrants and abandoning Americans in the middle of a disaster, on the very site people have come to rely on for critical information during disasters. And while the user experience suffers, X's business doesn't seem particularly healthy either. After Musk allowed white supremacist Nick Fuentes back onto the

Starting point is 00:21:04 platform, advertisers grew concerned about their products being associated with toxic ideas that were going unchecked, which Musk infamously responded by telling advertisers to go fuck yourself. Musk brings not only that recent baggage with him, but past controversies that each stand the chance of rubbing someone the wrong way. He's blamed schools for his publicly estranged relationship with his transgender daughter. He's dabbled in supporting Great Replacement Theory and once called a man who was attempting to rescue children from a cave a pedo. When most moderates or liberals think of Elon Musk, they not only think of an affable nerd

Starting point is 00:21:37 who loves cryptocurrency, electric cars, and building rockets, they also think of the controversial billionaire who has at one point said or done something that put them off. In politics, you want your celebrity surrogates to be more broadly popular than your candidate, to help reach voters that the candidate isn't already reaching. I'm not sure Musk does that for Trump. As I've said before, I'm not a Musk hater. I think the world's richest man is a complex person with some great ideas and some terrible ideas. For example, I support and admire his focus on government efficiency, even if I think the world's richest man is a complex person with some great ideas and some terrible ideas. For example, I support and admire his focus on government efficiency, even if I think his proposed solution, creating a government commission to rein in the government, is a little silly.

Starting point is 00:22:15 What I'm even less convinced of, though, is that he is likable or trusted enough to do more for Trump than shower him with cash. Which brings us back to the first and last points about Musk's endorsement, his platform and his cash. X has hundreds of millions of daily active users and Musk himself has over 200 million followers. Musk has a net worth of over $250 billion and is overseeing a PAC that's already spent tens of millions of dollars

Starting point is 00:22:41 to support Trump and Republicans. While his value as a surrogate and personal supporter may be in question, that kind of reach and influence will undoubtedly benefit Trump as the presidential race reaches its home stretch. We'll be right back after this quick break. this quick break. Can Indigenous ways of knowing help kids cope with online bullying? At the University of British Columbia, we believe that they can. Dr. Johanna Sam and her team are researching how both Indigenous and non-Indigenous youth cope with cyber aggression, working to bridge the diversity gap in child psychology research. At UBC, our researchers are answering today's most pressing questions. To learn how we're moving the world forward, visit ubc.ca forward happens here. From Searchlight Pictures comes A Real Pain, one of the most moving and funny films of the year.

Starting point is 00:23:39 Written and directed by Oscar-nominated Jesse Eisenberg and starring Eisenberg and Emmy Award winner Kieran Culkin. A Real Pain is a comedy about mismatched cousins who reunite for a tour through Poland to honor their beloved grandmother. The adventure takes a turn when the pair's old tensions resurface against the backdrop of their family history. A Real Pain was one of the buzziest titles at Sundance Film Festival this year, garnering rave reviews and acclaim from both critics and audiences alike. See A Real Pain only in theaters November 15th. Based on Charles Yu's award-winning

Starting point is 00:24:09 book, Interior Chinatown follows the story of Willis Wu, a background character trapped in a police procedural who dreams about a world beyond Chinatown. When he inadvertently becomes a witness to a crime, Willis begins to unravel a criminal web, his family's buried history, and what it feels like to be in the spotlight. Interior Chinatown is streaming November 19th, only on Disney+. All right, that is it for Isaac's Take. We are actually going to skip today's reader question because we read it on Monday and we printed it today in the newsletter, so it's the same. We're just going to go ahead and move into our under-the-radar story.

Starting point is 00:24:53 On Tuesday, the Biden administration finalized a new rule requiring water system operators to replace service lines containing lead within the next 10 years. lead within the next 10 years. The regulation revises the lead and copper rule set out by the Environmental Protection Agency in 1991, which mandates systems to monitor drinking water at customer taps. Under the new rule, operators must replace water lines if lead concentration levels exceed 10 parts per billion in more than 10% of customer taps sampled, a stricter standard than the previously 15 parts per billion threshold. The EPA projects that the revised rule will prevent up to 900,000 infants from being born underweight and roughly 1,500 cases of premature death from heart disease per year. However, some groups oppose the rule. Public utility company American Water Works said the 10-year deadline would delay needed infrastructure improvements and in some communities result in significant disruption of neighborhoods. Roll Call has the story and there's a link in today's episode description.

Starting point is 00:25:54 All right, next up is our numbers section. Elon Musk's net worth as of October 8th is $259 billion, according to Bloomberg. The approximate market capitalization of Tesla as of October 8th is $79 billion, according to Bloomberg. The approximate market capitalization of Tesla as of October 8th is $784 billion. The reported valuation of SpaceX in June 2024 is $210 billion. The percentage decrease in the value of X since Musk purchased the platform is 79%, according to an estimate from Fidelity. Elon Musk's net favorability rating among registered voters is minus 11, according to a September 2024 NBC News poll. Musk's net favorability in August 2021 was plus 5.

Starting point is 00:26:34 The amount the America PAC has raised in the 2023-24 election cycle is $8.75 million, according to its latest filing with the Federal Election Commission. The amount that the America PAC has spent on campaign events, mailings, and materials and media to date is $7.7 million. The total number of individual contributors to the America PAC is 17, and the amount that the America PAC has spent on independent expenditures, communication advocating for or against a political candidate without coordinating with any candidate or party to date is $87.29 million. And last but not least, our have a nice day story. Tyler Wilfong was born with a genetic eye disease, retinitis pigmentosa, that caused his

Starting point is 00:27:21 eyesight to deteriorate. By the time he turned 23, he was no longer able to drive or even walk through a store unassisted due to his blindness. Then he learned about a new treatment available through Duke Eye Center that could dramatically improve his eyesight. The treatment entails injecting a healthy copy of a gene into Wilfong's eyes to combat a mutation that renders the existing gene non-functional. The first application in one eye has proved effective, and Wilfong plans to receive treatment in his other eye this fall.

Starting point is 00:27:50 With just the first eye treated, Wilfong is already able to see and care for his newborn son. CBS 17 has this story, and there's a link in today's episode description. All right, everybody, that is it for today's episode. As always, if you'd like to support our work, please go to retangle.com and sign up for a membership And again, you can now sign up for a premium podcast membership If you sign up for the newsletter today, you will receive a code for 50 off that premium podcast membership as well We'll be right back here tomorrow for isaac and the rest of the crew. This is john maul signing off. Have a great day y'all peace

Starting point is 00:28:23 Our podcast is written by me, Isaac Saul, and edited and engineered by Duke Thomas. Our script is edited by Ari Weitzman, Will Kabak, Bailey Saul, and Sean Brady. The logo for our podcast was made by Magdalena Bokova, who is also our social media manager. The music for the podcast was produced by Diet75. And if you're looking for more from Tangle,

Starting point is 00:28:45 please go check out our website at readtangle.com. That's readtangle.com.

Tangle - Donald Trump and Elon Musk

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