Tangle - Gen. Mark Milley and Donald Trump.

Episode Date: September 16, 2021

General Mark Milley. In a forthcoming book, Bob Woodward and Robert Costa allege that Milley, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, the highest-ranking and most senior military officer in the armed forces, was single-handedly taking action to prevent President Donald Trump from ordering a dangerous military strike against China or launching a nuclear strike at the end of his presidency. Today, we'll take a look at some reactions from the right and left, then my take.Our newsletter is written by Isaac Saul, edited by Bailey Saul, Sean Brady, Ari Weitzman, and produced in conjunction with Tangle’s social media manager Magdalena Bokowa, who also created our logo.The podcast is edited by Trevor Eichhorn, and music for the podcast was produced by Diet 75.For more from Tangle, subscribe to our newsletter or check out our content archives at https://www.readtangle.com/--- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/tanglenews/message Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Based on Charles Yu's award-winning book, Interior Chinatown follows the story of Willis Wu, a background character trapped in a police procedural who dreams about a world beyond Chinatown. When he inadvertently becomes a witness to a crime, Willis begins to unravel a criminal web, his family's buried history, and what it feels like to be in the spotlight.

Interior Chinatown is streaming November 19th, only on Disney+. Chinatown is streaming November 19th, only on Disney+. From executive producer Isaac Saul, this is Tangle. Good morning, good afternoon, and good evening, and welcome to the Tangle Podcast, a place where you get views from across the political spectrum, some independent thinking, without all that hysterical nonsense you find everywhere else. I am your host, Isaac Saul, and today I am coming to you live from Bucks County, Pennsylvania. I'm actually passing through my mother's home on the way to Washington, D.C. tonight to go watch a football game live and in person, which is a nice break from the COVID-19 world. So first of all, I'm in a closet

facing a bunch of old childhood clothes of mine that are stuffed into the wall. So I apologize if the sound quality is not as good as it usually is. And if it sounds good, well, then I guess I'm a genius and have figured out how to do this on the road. First of all, before we jump in, I just want to let you know that tomorrow we are going to be doing a subscribers only Friday edition. That's sort of a look at the rejection of the recall effort of Gavin Newsom in California, what it means for Democrats and national politics as a whole. If that's something you'd be interested in, it is, again, for subscribers only tomorrow, as most Friday editions are. You can go subscribe at readtangle.com backslash subscribe.

All right, let's hop into it today with some quick hits. Number one, Simone Biles and a group of U.S. gymnasts testified before the Senate yesterday about how the Olympic Committee and the FBI failed them and allowed years of sexual abuse by Dr. Larry Nassar. The testimony is pretty heartbreaking, but also very important for Americans to hear. Number two, COVID-19 cases are beginning to fall nationally, but the deaths are still continuing to rise. That's according to some new data spelled out by Axios. Number three, yesterday, Elon Musk's SpaceX successfully launched

the first crew of amateurs in orbit without a professional astronaut on board. Number four, Pennsylvania Republicans have approved subpoenas for the personal data of millions of voters, advancing a probe of the 2020 election in a key battleground state. Number five, U.S. retail sales rebounded in August, a sign of economic resilience despite the spread of the Delta variant. Okay, and so we're on to today's topic, which is General Mark Milley. Mark Milley. In a forthcoming book, Bob Woodward and Robert Costa allege that Milley, who is the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, which is the highest ranking and most senior military officer

in the armed forces, was single-handedly taking action to prevent President Donald Trump from ordering a dangerous military strike or launching a nuclear strike towards the end of his time in office. Details of the book were initially reported by the Washington Post, which is where Costa works, and CNN, which saw an excerpt of the book. In the book, titled Peril, Milley was apparently so shaken by the attacks on the U.S. Capitol that he was, quote, certain Trump had gone into a serious mental decline shortly after the election. He responded to this fear by calling a secret meeting in his Pentagon office and instructing top senior military officials to ensure that he was involved in and notified of any orders for a military strike or to launch a nuclear weapon. At one point after receiving intelligence that China believed the US was about to attack,

Milley even contacted his Chinese counterpart to assure him that the US was not considering a strike. There were 15 people on the conference call including a representative from the State Department and readouts of the call were turned over to the intelligence community, according to the book. General Lee, you and I have known each other for five years now, Milley allegedly said. If we're going to attack, I'm going to call you ahead of time. It's not going to be a surprise. It's not going to be a bolt out of the blue. Milley, who is now serving in the same role under President Biden, immediately came under criticism after the excerpts of the blue. Milley, who is now serving in the same role under President Biden, immediately came

under criticism after the excerpts of the book were released. It wasn't just Trump allies either. Lieutenant Colonel Alexander Vindman, who testified against Trump in his impeachment trial, said Milley should step down if the book's details are accurate. In their writing, Woodward and Costa also claimed Trump turned on several close allies, including Vice President Mike Pence, when they refused to help him in his effort to remain in office despite losing the November election. The book also quotes Trump telling former aides in July that he is strongly considering running for president again in 2024. Below, we'll take a look at the reactions to excerpts from Peril and some assessments from the left and right. One important note before we jump in, typically I alternate between who goes

first every day, the right or the left, but today I'm going to keep what the right is saying first because I think it just makes more sense as a story for the purposes of what we're talking about so you can kind of hear the criticism of Millie before you hear the defense of his actions. Then, as always, I'll share my take. First, what the right is saying. The right has said that Milley should resign or at least be under congressional investigation. In USA Today, David Mastio said Milley should step down after he went too far in preparing to resist Donald Trump's orders in the closing days of an unstable presidency. Milley prepared his senior officers to slow walk any orders from Trump to use nuclear weapons or start a military confrontation with China, according to a new book.

That's an appalling step towards shredding civilian control over the military, a bedrock constitutional value that the chairman is sworn to uphold, Mastios said. However, it is an understandable step given that Trump was living in a fantasy world as he whipped up his followers into a frenzy that led to terrorism at the U.S. Capitol in a crazed attempt to overturn the election. But, Mastios wrote, Milley went even further. In reassuring his Chinese counterpart that no attack was coming from the United States, Milley promised to call and warn of an impending U.S. attack if Trump ordered one. Such a call would have inevitably cost the lives of American troops tasked with following the orders of the lawful commander-in-chief. Milley's efforts to thwart the potential damages of an unhinged president

became a betrayal of the men and women he commands. No leader can make such a promise and retain the support of the military personnel he oversees. In The Federalist, Jenna Stocker said that Milley disgraced the U.S. military. The authors did not disclose the source of the phone calls, but if true, this is an egregious case of dereliction of duty and in line with the modern military's turn from a machine of war to an institutional infatuated with its elitism and filled with disdain for Americans who make up its ranks, Stocker wrote. This is the natural end of what has been a steady march towards a politicized woke force that covers for the ineptitude of leaders obsessed with their own power. It's a dangerous turn away from what has been the mission of our military since its inception, to fight and win wars. Now it is a vessel for an elite class to rise through the ranks of power and influence in Washington, D.C., without having to be accountable for the feckless behavior that leads to endless

wars, disgraceful exits, and disregard for an institution that should project power and not fold under it. But, as is the rule of the elite, they are never held to the same standard as those to which they incessantly preach, Stocker said. Milley's actions to join the political fray as a one-man envoy between the United States and China prove it. The alleged calls to the Chinese reveal he thinks his own freelance diplomacy better serves American interests than the civilian leadership elected through democratic means. The Wall Street Journal editorial board said Milley has more explaining to do. Congress needs to find out how much is true not because of partisan demands for retribution

against the general, but because even the appearance of attenuating civilian control of the military is damaging to democracy. Mr. Woodward's opaque method makes it impossible to judge the accuracy of his reporting. He relates conversations he didn't hear based on sources whose motives aren't explained. Those on the right now demanding General Milley's head based on Mr. Woodward's book were rightly cautious of the journalist's insider accounts of GOP presidencies. Yet, the statement from General Milley's spokesman released Wednesday contains no denials. General Milley should be asked to clarify under oath the context of the communications with China and nuclear launch procedure when he testifies before the Senate on September 28th.

America's military brass rightly has deconfliction channels open with adversaries when their forces are in proximity. But promising to tip off before the president ordered an attack would be an outrageous usurpation. All right, and here is what the left is saying. The left is split on the story, with some celebrating Milley and others saying he should have to explain his actions. The Washington Post editorial board also called for an investigation by Congress.

It's important to draw distinctions, the board said, and to be clear about what we do and do not yet know. General Milley feared both what an out-of-control Mr. Trump might do and how, on the other hand, China might misinterpret U.S. intentions amid U.S. political turbulence. Through back channels before and after the election, the general tried to reassure his military counterpart in Beijing of the United States' peaceful intentions. Two days after the attack on the Capitol, having spoken with House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and agreed with her that Mr. Trump was unstable, General Milley arranged for a delay in military exercises the People's Republic might have seen as provocative. No doubt General Milley explored for a delay in military exercises the People's Republic might have seen as provocative. No doubt General Milley explored the limits of his constitutional authority, the board added.

This could be quite benign if he was simply telling China's top general, as Peril reports he did on January 8th, we are 100% steady, everything's fine. What could be considerably less benign is the pledge General Milley reportedly made to alert General Li ahead of any U.S. strike. If we're going to attack, I'm going to call you ahead of time, it's not going to be a surprise. In Bloomberg, Timothy O'Brien took issue with the idea that Trump was in some kind of mental decline that General Milley was worried about after the election. Did Trump suddenly go into a psychological slide in 2020 that made him more dangerous than before, O'Brien asked? No. It was obvious to anyone watching closely that he would rather burn down the House after the 2020 presidential election than acknowledge defeat. He warned of electoral fraud before the 2016 election too,

and he continues peddling the same myth today. It's utterly predictable because he doesn't change. People supporting him or advising him who may have thought otherwise were kidding themselves. The risk that the country, the rule of law, and our institutions still confront stems from that reality. The Republican Party continues to embrace and foment Trumpism, O'Brien said. Much could still go wrong, and we can't rely on military leaders going rogue to protect us from rogue presidents. I'm glad Milley took the steps he did, and I honor his military service, but the fact that he had to maneuver around Trump demonstrates how broken things are. Milley is a sophisticated and dedicated public servant, and he was well aware of how his actions would appear. Max Boot cheered Milley's decision in

a Washington Post column. The two books paint a consistent picture of a president who is judged to clear and present danger to U.S. national security by his own top general, Boot wrote. Milley should be commended for acting to limit the unhinged commander-in-chief's ability to overthrow the government or start a war. Milley had no choice but to do what he did, but his actions will further enrage the right and widen the divide between the military and the Republican Party. If Trump or a Trump loyalist comes into power in 2024 or 2028, expect a purge of officers who are deemed loyal to the Constitution rather than to the president and the Republican Party.

There is no obvious legislative fix that would stop the president from ordering the military to launch a coup. We are dependent on the devotion of the armed forces to the Constitution to forestall that nightmare. But it is possible to prevent the president from starting a nuclear war for political purposes. Senator Edward J. Markey and Representative Ted Lieu have introduced legislation to prohibit the president from a first use of nuclear weapons unless Congress has declared war. It is imperative for Congress to pass some such limitations

on the president's nuclear use authority before another unhinged president takes office. We suffered badly enough under Trump. 400,000 Americans died of COVID-19 while he was in office and insurrectionists invaded the U.S. Capitol. Yet it could have been far worse and could still be in the future if we don't act today. Based on Charles Yu's award-winning book, Interior Chinatown follows the story of Willis Wu, a background character trapped in a police procedural who dreams about a world beyond Chinatown. When he inadvertently becomes a witness to a crime, Willis begins to unravel a criminal web, his family's buried history, and what it feels like to be in the spotlight. Interior Chinatown is streaming November 19th, only on Disney+.

All right, and with the right and left out of the way, that leaves one thing, my take. of the way that leaves one thing, my take. So I'll show my cards first and then add some color. General Milley should resign or at the very least be replaced. That's number one. Now I'm not actually sure it matters what the finer details are that come out here. Milley had a chance to deny these allegations and he didn't. Nothing at all in this reporting even remotely is in the same stratosphere as the allegation that he told a Chinese military general he would give them a heads up about an impending strike. That's something that's so over the top and out of this world, I was struggling to believe it until Milley declined when he had the opportunity to deny it. That alone is enough for letting him go, but just zoom out here for a second. Look at the

larger picture. This account, which is quite damaging to Milley's reputation, comes on the heels of the last few weeks in Afghanistan, which was an operation he bears some responsibility for as the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. Those failures and the debacle of the withdrawal already had him in the hot seat. A gossip-laden book like this from two famous reporters detailing Milley undermining the commander-in-chief? That's not going to sit well in military ranks, even among those who loathe Trump. Look no further than Lieutenant Colonel Alexander Vindman, who already said he thinks Milley should resign if these allegations are true. Vindman, again, is the guy who testified against Trump in the

impeachment trial and single-handedly tried to take down his presidency. I also want to note, though, a few other things not being talked about enough here. One is that, believe it or not, Milley is not in the chain of command for a nuclear launch. Fred Kaplan wrote about this in a really detailed, accurate way in Slate, and he is basically laying out the case that Milley's supposed to be consulted, if the book's details are to believe, on something like a nuclear launch. He's not supposed to be directly in the chain of command. So if this dramatic meeting happened where Milley was telling people, hey, make sure you give me a heads up if there's going to be a nuclear launch, that's kind of his job.

That's not some big, you know, out of left field dereliction of duty. That's him reminding people this is how the chain of command works on a launch. I'm not in it, but I'm supposed to be consulted. Now, Milley could have advised Trump against it and Trump could have just ignored him and done the nuclear launch anyway. And that's how the chain of command works. Trump is the commander in chief. From the looks of it, though, it just seems like Milley wanted to know what was going on and be looped in, which is not nearly as wild of an event as some of the accounts seem to make it out to be. The other important thing here is Trump. I mean, you know, I hate to say this, but if we're going to take the details of

this book at face value, which it seems like a lot of people are, and I'm not saying we should, but if we are going to take the details at face value, they're a lot more damaging for Trump than they are for Milley. I'm not sure it's even remotely close. Costa and Woodward describe a White House where top aides, top generals, the vice president, and Trump's most longtime loyalists, basically every single person who knows him and is around him, thought that he was totally off his rocker, out of control, liable to start a nuclear war because he was pissed off about the election or thought that it was stolen from him. I mean, he spent the final days in office telling Pence that he no longer wanted to be friends if Pence didn't try to

obstruct the election results from being certified. Just let that soak in for one minute. Now, should we take this stuff at face value? I'm more skeptical of that. So many people have come out of the Trump White House eager to make a mint off a book deal or restore their reputations with off-the-record comments. Delineating who the good guys are or the bad guys are is pretty tough to do, precisely because the chaos of the Trump administration produced so many backstabbers and fibbers. Stephanie Grisham, the longtime aide to Melania Trump, is the latest. She just wrote a whole book about how hard she tried to stop the absurdities in the Trump White House, talking about how she tried to prevent people from, you know, overthrowing the election or whatever, only for former aides then to share text messages with Politico showing that Grisham was a

willing and enthusiastic participant in all of that nonsense after the election until she wanted to write a book about what a saint she is. So could this be more of the same? Could Milley himself be the source for the stories we're reading? Who's leaking this stuff? Who's putting it out? What are their motivations? Those are great questions from the Wall Street Journal editorial board, and I wouldn't doubt any of it for a second.

I mean, I think it's totally possible there are some other things at work here unrelated to Milley's reputation or Trump or whatever. So I'd welcome an investigation into the details. And as a curious reporter, I'd love to hear Milley go under oath in front of Congress when he does. I'm going to be watching. I want to hear these questions asked. I want to know what happened, but I doubt anything there is going to change my mind. Milley should resign, not just because of this story, but because his credibility shot and because he's part of a military class that rarely faces repercussions for its mistakes. We have an opportunity for accountability now, not just for the allegations in the book,

but for the entire body of work from Milley, and it'd be good for the country if he stepped down. All right, so that brings us on to today's reader question. It is from an anonymous reader in Rochester, New York. They asked, what exactly is the Great Reset? I've heard some conservative outlets talk about this as a very serious thing, but it honestly sounds like a conspiracy theory. What's your take? Okay, great. Awesome question. I love this. I mean, if you don't know what the Great Reset is, it's not a conspiracy theory. I mean, the concept is not a conspiracy theory, though it has definitely spurred a lot of conspiracy theories. The Great Reset is, it's not a conspiracy theory. I mean, the concept is not a conspiracy theory, though it has definitely spurred a lot of conspiracy theories. The Great Reset is this idea that was sort of born out of the World Economic Forum that basically reframes the

COVID-19 pandemic as a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to remake capitalism and address all these things that ail our planet. Honestly, if you read the building blocks of the Great Reset and the ideas that are publicly driving it, it doesn't seem that scary to me at all. There are actually some ideas in there that I agree with. So, for instance, they talk about corporations being accountable to workers rather than only shareholders. I think that's a great idea. talk about not using GDP as a measure of economic health. That's actually something I've written about before the COVID pandemic that I thought GDP was not the best way to measure economic health and something like, you know, how many people are struggling to eat in this country is probably a better way to do it. There are real dangers to this stuff, though. It's not hard to see why it has drawn so much fear. So for instance, one oddly fundamental thing about the Great Reset idea seems to be building stronger ties between corporations and government, the private and public sector.

In a lot of ways, the Great Reset looks like it would actually make corporations more powerful and make democracy less influential. This is pretty dangerous and scary to me. I don't want the wealthiest, most powerful people in the world having a larger say than they already do in something like, you know, how our food is processed or distributed or regulated. Government chosen by us is a better mechanism for that, in my opinion. So it's hard to be specific about these theories, you know, unless you were asking me something about one specific thing you heard. But general roundup is the Great Reset is a real thing. It's not a conspiracy on its own. It's not all some scary global conglomerate elite takeover. There are some good ideas in it, but that doesn't mean there aren't real dangers to it. And there are some links in today's newsletter with more information if you're

interested. Okay, and the story that matters for today, Afghan refugees are headed to 46 states across the U.S. About 37,000 Afghans are set to be relocated to many states, with California taking 5,255 as inheriting the most, and Texas taking 4,481 as taking on the second highest number. Hawaii, South Dakota, West Virginia, Wyoming, and Washington, D.C. are not receiving any refugees. And the 37,000 refugees coming are just the first group to immigrate to the U.S. There are going to be more, and it's going to be pretty interesting to watch how the U.S. government handles them. Because of the really unusual nature of them leaving Afghanistan, they haven't gone through the typical refugee process. So there's going to be a ton of legal hurdles, a ton of logistical complications. It's an interesting story to keep an eye on. Biden is really trying

to keep his pledge here and Congress is going to need to step up to help out and pave the way for green cards and make sure all these people are vetted and make sure they have the help and resources they need. So yeah, it's going to be pretty interesting. Axios has a great story on that today. And today's numbers section, negative 8%. That is the drop in the daily average of new COVID-19 cases over the last 14 days. 22 million is the number of teenagers who log into Instagram every day. 3,335,779 is the number of Californians who voted to remove Gavin Newsom. 5,887,471 is the number of Californians who voted to keep Gavin Newsom. 1.1% is the percentage of California recall vote that went to Caitlyn Jenner. 90% is the percentage of atheists in the U.S. who say they are vaccinated, which is the highest of any religious group, according to Pew. 57% is the percentage of white evangelical Protestants who say they are vaccinated, according to Pew.

Our have a nice day story. This is a pretty interesting one. Our have a nice day story. This is a pretty interesting one. Frozen foods, you might not know this, are increasingly popular across the globe and are also an incredibly important part of our food chain. But they're also costly, not just in dollars, but in the amount of carbon emissions they emit and the energy they use. However, researchers say they've come up with a new way to freeze foods that could cut global energy consumption by 6.5 billion kilowatt hours a year. I have no idea how much that is. Apparently it's a lot. But what I do know is that the amount of carbon emissions that would reduce is basically equivalent to taking 1 million cars off the road.

So you're saving energy and reducing carbon emissions. This change could be achieved quickly and quote, without requiring any significant changes in current frozen food manufacturing equipment and infrastructure. That's according to a woman who is a researcher with the U.S. Department of Agriculture named Christina Bilbao Sainz. And I apologize if I'm not pronouncing her name right. You can read more about this idea if you go to the newsletter and click the link. But basically, they're talking about using the same methods we use for transferring organs for transferring frozen food, which is apparently a lot cheaper and more efficient. All right, everybody, that is it for today's newsletter. As I said at the top, if you want

to receive tomorrow's Friday edition, which will not come out in podcast form and will only be in written form, you can go to reetangle.com backslash subscribe. Thanks, everyone, and have a great weekend. Today's podcast was written by me, Isaac Saul, the Tangle News founder, and it was edited and produced by Trevor Eichhorn. The music for the podcast was done by Diet75. Our newsletter is edited by Sean Brady, Bailey Saul, and Ari Weitzman. It is also produced by my social media manager and right-hand Magdalena Bokoa. Thank you so much for tuning in. And as always, if you want more, go to readtangle.com. Based on Charles Yu's award-winning book, Interior Chinatown follows the story of Willis Wu, Thanks for watching!