Tangle - Isaac debates Wayne Alynn Root.

Episode Date: July 25, 2022

On July 16, Isaac flew to Las Vegas to attend FreedomFest as an invited guest speaker. Check out today's episode for Isaac's full debate from the event, against Wayne Alynn Root, on the allegations that that 2020 election was stolen from Donald Trump, and the prospect of a Trump presidential run in 2024.You can subscribe to Tangle by clicking here or drop something in our tip jar by clicking here.Our podcast is written by Isaac Saul and produced by Trevor Eichhorn. Music for the podcast was produced by Diet 75.Our newsletter is edited by Bailey Saul, Sean Brady, Ari Weitzman, and produced in conjunction with Tangle’s social media manager Magdalena Bokowa, who also created our logo.--- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/tanglenews/message Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Based on Charles Yu's award-winning book, Interior Chinatown follows the story of Willis Wu, a background character trapped in a police procedural who dreams about a world beyond Chinatown. When he inadvertently becomes a witness to a crime, Willis begins to unravel a criminal web, his family's buried history, and what it feels like to be in the spotlight.

Interior Chinatown is streaming November 19th, only on Disney+. Chinatown is streaming November 19th, only on Disney+. From executive producer Isaac Saul, this is Tangle. Hey everyone, Isaac here. I just wanted to check in very quickly and let you guys know that we will be taking this week off from the podcast. Some of you who are longtime listeners or readers of our newsletter probably know by now that I am also, along with being a political reporter, a competitive ultimate frisbee player. This is a very weird niche sport thing, I know, but I happen to play for an extremely good team here in New York City. And last year, we qualified for the World

Championships, which are being held in Cincinnati, Ohio this week. This is an opportunity to play sort of like the Olympics at a tournament that comes around only once every four years. We are one of just four American teams that qualified, and we are seated number three heading into the tournament. So this week, I'm going to be competing in the World Championships of Ultimate Frisbee with an opportunity to win a World Championship, which is a lifetime goal of mine. So since I am on the road being housed with a bunch of teammates and in a different city, I'm not able to publish the podcast this week.

We are trying to produce some newsletter content that is a little bit out of the ordinary the whole week, so we're not totally missing from your inbox. But the podcast is on pause until Monday. So with that in mind, I wanted to try and do something, a little something for our podcast listeners to make sure that we weren't just completely out of the mix. And I had an idea to share with you the audio from my debate at Freedom Fest in Las Vegas, which took place on July 16th. This is something I also mentioned previously in the podcast and the newsletter, but I was invited to Las Vegas in order to debate whether the 2020 election was stolen and whether Donald Trump should be the Republican nominee in 2024. Now, this is obviously a little bit different than my standard Tangle stuff, but as some of you know

from my writing, I'm sure I am not someone who believes that the 2020 election was stolen. I also don't think Donald Trump is the right person to run in 2024, though. I haven't really argued that explicitly in Tangle since we don't make endorsements. I was asked to make that case in the debate, which I tried to do to the best of my ability. It was a really interesting conversation. I think my opponent, Wayne Allen Root, in the debate was on his home turf, definitely. This is a pretty conservative, right-leaning conference, and I thought I did a pretty good job. So I figured I would share the audio with you all. So the first part of the debate, you'll hear Wayne's 10-minute opening and then my 10-minute response. And then we have a few minutes each of back and

forth. The crowd gets a little rowdy. They razz me and jeer me and boo me a little bit. And then we finish up with some questions from the moderator and a few reader questions. The whole thing is about an hour. And I asked Trevor, our handy podcast editor, to pull the audio from the debate and turn it into a podcast for you. So you had something to listen to this week. So that is what you're about to hear. I hope you enjoy it. Please wish us good luck at the tournament and we will be back here next week, back to our regular programming. Thank you all so much for understanding and you'll hear from me soon. Peace.

Oh, we have a great crowd here. And this is the meat of this conference. So, chaos in the election of 2020. I have been writing on this subject when no one paid attention. My first book on election irregularities, election chaos, was published in 2001. Wow. After something called Bush v. Gore, where George Bush won Florida by 537 votes and then the presidency. So people always ask me, you've written five books on this subject.

The latest is, shameless plug, insert, Our Broken Elections, How the Left Changed the Way You Vote, available at great bookstores everywhere, including the one over there. Why do you write these books? What got you interested in this subject? And the answer is, I was in college in the 1980s in California, and there was a recount of an election for the state legislature near my area. And for a term paper, I decided to attend the recount and report on how it went. And so I'm the only person who was not involved in the official recount or the campaign that stayed for the entire recount. And I witnessed voter fraud with my own eyes in the recount.

And people always ask me, well, why didn't you report it to the authorities? And I say, well, it's to the authorities who were doing it. Back then, they had these ballots where you penciled in your choice with a circle, you filled in the circle. So what they were doing at one or two recount tables, somebody would put a piece of pencil lead underneath their finger. And what they would do as they were getting the ballot to see how they voted, they would make a mark on it and the part where the race was. And if you made the mark, you couldn't tell whether there was one or two votes. Therefore, you invalidated the ballot. And you only did that with the candidate whom you didn't like. So it wasn't about adding

ballots. It was about subtracting ballots. And it changed enough votes that the leader in the race flipped and became the loser in the race. So that's what got me interested. So the great thing about my book, and I think the great thing about our two speakers, is we're going to deal in facts today. This book, for example, is completely documented, 40 pages of footnotes. And we're going to try to discuss this in an objective and rational way. And with me to do that is Wayne Allen Root, who has been the former vice presidential candidate of the Libertarian Party. And believe me, third parties have been dissed by the major parties for a long time in this country.

And I don't know if it's fraud, but I do know if the game was rigged. You're getting ballot access. And Wayne is a businessman, conservative evangelist, and appears on media everywhere. And a brand new TV show to announce, by the way, starting in mid-August. My new show will be on Real America's Voice Network every Friday and Saturday. It's called America's Top Ten Countdown with Wayne Allyn Root. And I will count down from ten to one the ten most important stories that every conservative, every patriot, every Christian, and every deplorable in America needs to know every single week that the mainstream media will not tell you about. Real America's Voice Network. And our... Isaac Saul is an independent

journalist and researcher. He's been a political reporter on these topics for over 10 years. He publishes his independent newsletter called Tangle. And the website is? ReadTangle.com. We've got the nice sticker right here. So please go check it out. He's his great own marketing director. And Isaac has done a lot of work trying to untangle truth from fiction in what is discussed about the 2020 election. So the format of this is it's a debate, but it's really, I hope, going to be a discussion,

because we actually have a lot to agree on, I think, between the three of us, as well as disagree on. So Wayne is going to get eight to ten minutes. There'll be a rebuttal or response from Isaac. Then I'll make some very brief remarks. We'll go into a second round where each gets about five minutes. Then I'll have a couple questions, taking my role as the moderator seriously. And then we're going to get some written questions from you in the audience. And I'll try to get to those as fast as possible. Wayne, go ahead. I'm going to take the podium, if you don't mind. Sure. Sure. Hi, everyone. How are you? You know that I've got a national radio show every afternoon on USA Radio,

3 to 6 p.m. West Coast time, 6 to 9 p.m. East Coast time, Wayne Allyn Root, Raw and Unfiltered. And for the last year and a half, it's been about 24 hours a day proving that the election was, in fact, stolen and also proving that the government lies about everything. One of the greatest cover-ups in world history was the election. One of the greatest cover-ups in history was Hunter Biden's laptop. One of the greatest cover-ups in history are the COVID vaccines.

Massive cover-up. Massive cover-up. Never seen anything like it in my life. The amount of deaths and injuries from the COVID vaccine. Well, they tell you, give it to your kids. Give it to your kids. How can anyone believe anything you hear from government or media? So let me start by saying that I have personal proof that every election is stolen. As an example, in Nevada, right here where I live, every single illegal alien in this state is given a driver's license. They're all allowed to register to drive at DMV. And when you go to DMV, what happens? You're automatically registered to vote. At that point,

it's totally legal for a non-citizen, an illegal alien who has no right to even be in the country, to be voting. And trust me when I tell you, they're all voting. This is not California. This is not New York. If I walk around California, every person I meet's a Democrat. Walk around Las Vegas, everyone you meet's a Republican. No one can understand how we lose elections by 10,000 votes, 20,000 votes, 30,000 votes. It's because 200,000 plus illegals are stealing our elections in the state of Nevada. As a matter of fact, 200,000 people belong to the culinary union, just the culinary union on the Vegas strip. And almost every one of them speak Spanish barely or doesn't speak English. And on election day, they're given

the day off a free lunch if they vote and a list of who to vote for by the union. In Spanish, Democrat, Democrat, Democrat, Democrat. The entire state is stolen and rigged by illegal alien votes. So I don't know anything about Dominion. I don't know about computer flips. Many things might have happened. But I know for a fact all over this country, millions of illegals in any state where they're registered to drive, they are automatically registered to vote.

And according to Motor Voter, which President Bill Clinton put in, guess what? You cannot ask them by law whether they're an American citizen or not when they register to vote at DMV. So every illegal is voting and they're stealing your honest law-abiding American citizens' votes. And they're stealing your honest, law-abiding American citizens' votes. They're taking away your honest vote. So let me tell you a story that's going to be so different than anything you've ever heard. As you all know, I'm kind of a different guy, right? Before I ever got into politics or talk radio or talk television, before any of that, I was considered the number one sports gambler in the world.

And I have a star on the Vegas Strip to prove it, 180-pound granite star in front of Paris Hotel. And it says Wayne Allyn Root, the king of Vegas sports gambling. And it's next to Elvis and Frank Sinatra and Wayne Newton. And I really am originally the big star of sports gambling in this state. And because of that, I think I understand a thing or two about football games and point spreads. And there is a famous game that you can't prove was stolen, but everybody knows was a fixed rig stolen NFL game on behalf of the mafia. It was in 1978. It was called the miracle at the Meadowlands. Every gambler in the world knows it was a fixed game. It was November 19th, 1978.

The New York Giants had the game won. There were about 17 seconds left. All they had to do was knee the football, and they decided to hand off. The game was so over, the announcers were giving the credits. This game's produced by, this game's directed by. The Giants had won and the game was over, yet they handed off the football and the running back didn't want the football. He let it fall on the ground and then he didn't jump on the football. He let it sit there and

Herm Edwards, the defensive back of the Philadelphia Eagles, scooped it up and ran 27 yards for a touchdown. The most improbable win in NFL history. And everybody knows it was a fixed game. Nobody wanted to jump on the fumble except for the other team. The New York Giants stood around and watched. Why? Because the mafia probably would have broken their legs. Everybody knows there were no timeouts left and it was the most idiotic decision in football history. I can't prove it, but I'm a smart professional gambler and I know it was rigged, fixed, and stolen in every cell, in every vein, in every capillary of my body. Everyone in Vegas knows it. Everyone in gambling knows it. Everyone

in the mafia knows it. Now, let me go to part two of that story. There's a famous author, at least he was in the 70s and 80s, by the name of Dan Moldea, famous journalist, and he wrote many best-selling books on the topics of the killing of Jimmy Hoffa, the mafia, the killing of John F. Kennedy, the killing of Vince Foster, and the O.J. Simpson trial. All best-selling books by Dan Moldea. But then he wrote a book called Interference about fixed rigged games in the NFL that were rigged by the mafia. And that's the only book he ever wrote that no media would give him any publicity for.

And I know because I was the lead anchorman at CNBC, which in those days was called FNN, Financial News Network, FNN Sports. And I booked him to talk about his book. And at the last minute, I was called by the president of FNN. He said, Wayne, we've canceled your interview. Dan Moldea is not allowed on this network. And I said, he's written 10 bestselling books.

What do you mean he's not allowed on the network? He's talking about the NFL and the mafia, and we will not allow it on our network. Folks, you don't need facts. You don't need to be a genius. You need to know that when they won't let you talk about it, they're guilty. When they won't let you talk about it, have a conversation about it, they've done it. So even though he wrote all those great books, he ruined his career. And him and I became friends friends and we talked about it.

He literally ruined his career by touching on fixed games by the mafia in the NFL. What was the main game in his book? Philadelphia, New York Giants, the miracle at the Meadowlands. So now I'm going to tell you, this will be my closing, right? Because I'm a gambler, I bet a lot of money on Donald Trump to win in 2016. And I made a fortune. I got six to one odds. So in 2020, I made another huge bet on Trump to win the election. So now I'm going to tell you from a gambler's perspective how I know the election was fixed. So here I am betting huge money and I'm watching with 20 computer screens on the night of the

election 2020. And Donald Trump, the election returns are coming in live. So I'm giving you, not as a political guy, not as a friend of Trump, not as a big supporter of Trump, not as a radio host who gets Trump as my guest more than anyone in America, Trump's my buddy. Forget all that. I'm a gambler betting big money on Trump with a chance to win $100,000 on the election. And I'm watching my computer screens. Trump starts out the night as a slight underdog. Okay?

Very slight underdog to Biden. And now bettors are placing their bets based on live returns of each state electoral votes coming in. And anyone who does that is the smartest, sharpest bettors in the world. And they're almost never wrong. And that's how I knew in 16 that Trump had won. When on TV, they were still saying that Hillary had a chance. I was already at dinner celebrating because the betting odds had gone to literally 10 to 1 in favor of Trump. And we all knew it was a landslide. It was over. An electoral landslide. So in 2020, I'm watching and it goes from Trump and underdog. The returns come in. Trump becomes even money. Then a slight favorite, then a large favorite, then a two to one

favorite. Each new state that comes in, I don't care what they said on TV, the better's new. Trump goes to two to one, three to one, four to one, five to one, six to one, seven to one, eight to one. Friends are calling me and saying, landslide,es, you made 100,000, Wayne. Congratulations. At that moment, five states announced they were stopping the count for the night. It's just like the miracle in the Meadowlands. Fixed, rigged, stolen election. Never in the history of America has any state stopped a count for the night, let alone

five states in coordination with each other, which just happened to be the five key states that determined whether Trump would win by a landslide or whether he'd lose by a landslide. And at that moment, they stopped the count. Trump's ahead by 800,000 votes in Pennsylvania. He's ahead by 300,000 in Michigan, 100,000 in Wisconsin, and 100,000 in Georgia. I also believe Nevada was fixed and rigged. I also believe Arizona was very much fixed and rigged. Those six states would have been a landslide for Trump, but they coordinated at the beginning of the night to stop the count at midnight if Trump was ahead by a lot. It doesn't take a genius to figure it out.

What was the plan? Let's stop. Let's take a deep breath. Let's see how many votes we need to steal it. Let's figure out if Trump's ahead by 800,000, how many hours or days it will take to make up fake ballots and put them in and overcome the 800,000 vote lead. That's why they stopped the count.

It does not take a genius to figure out why eight states suddenly coordinated. And then when we woke up in the morning, even more telling, they hadn't stopped the count. They had continued counting, but they asked all the witnesses to leave the room. Not one Republican witness was in the room. Not one member of the media was in the room when

they counted. And I woke up to find out Trump was now a two to one underdog. When I got to bed, eight to one favorite. How did that happen, folks? The answer is they found hundreds of thousands of fake ballots with no voter ID. The door was opened by COVID. It was a completely fraudulent election. And by the way, there were so many examples of it that I'm not allowed to talk about that the vans that pulled up at three in the morning in Detroit, city of Detroit, county, city of Detroit, clerk, and they brought out hundreds of thousands of ballots. It's on camera.

I put that video on my Twitter account. And guess what happened? Banned for life from Twitter. You know, I don't know how many women in the audience have ever had a man cheat on you. Interesting topic, right? If you've ever had a man cheat on you, a dirty guy, right?

They come home at three in the morning, lipstick on their cheeks and a hickey on their neck and their shirts disheveled. And they say to you, oh, don't even ask me about it. I don't cheat on my wife. Shut up and go to bed. I didn't cheat on you. And I'll take your job away if you bring it up. And I'll ban you from social media if you bring it up. What would a smart wife think? The more they deny, the more they've done it. They stole the election. And so far, they've gotten away with it because they deny, deny, deny, and they'll get

another denial today. I'm Wayne Allyn Root, and I got lots more to say. Okay. You're good, Wayne. I got to give you that. Hello. Thank you guys for having me here today. It's nice to be in the lion's den. I've got 10 minutes, which is not nearly enough time to cover everything he just talked about. So I'm going to talk fast. Please try and stick with me. I will start by doing something that may be foolish, but I'm going to do it anyway. I'm going to use one minute to state plainly many things I agree with Wayne about and many Trump supporters on about the 2020 election. First of all, voter fraud and election fraud happen. They happen in nearly every election.

Election fraud is a bipartisan issue. Arguably the biggest election fraud story that has been prosecuted and proved in the last few years was a North Carolina Republican named Mark Harris. It is also true that many of the rules were changed due to the COVID-19 pandemic in the lead up to the 2020 election. It's true that an unprecedented number of people voted by mail in 2020 and that many states have never handled that much mail-in voting before. It's true that major Democratic donors like Mark Zuckerberg poured money into the funding of the 2020 election. It's true that the media suppressed the legitimate story about Hunter Biden and his laptop in the lead up to the 2020 election And it's true that cell phone data is very valuable and can track people's locations is as is alleged in the 2000 mules documentary This wasn't in my script, but I also believe that game was stolen at the Meadowlands. Thank you Wayne

Claims are true. Okay What is not true, what President Trump, Wayne Allyn Root, Dinesh D'Souza, the rest of them have failed to prove is that there was so much voter fraud in the election or so much election fraud that the race was thrown to Biden. It is not true that election machines switched votes or that thousands of dead people voted. It is not true that thousands of votes were dumped in the middle of the night in Michigan or Wisconsin or that tens of thousands of people voted illegally as non-citizens or via dropbox ballots. None of this has been proven. It has not been proven, despite the fact that much of it has been investigated by law enforcement and adjudicated in front of Trump-appointed federal judges. To recap, take yourselves back to the 2020 election. A couple days after the election, it is important to remember where we were. Donald Trump and his team were not claiming that thousands of mules carried illegal ballots to drop boxes in swing

states, as has been alleged in the 2000 Mules documentary. They were instead claiming that Dominion voting systems had miraculously flipped votes from Biden, from Trump to Biden via illicit software in the middle of the night through various countries like Venezuela and Germany. Please remember, that was the initial claim about how the election was stolen. Of course, we now know, thanks to text messages from Trump's chief of staff and the January 6th investigations, that those allegations did not have any merit. Trump eventually realized this and dropped the lawyer who made those allegations, Sidney Powell, and his legal team, Rudy Giuliani and Jenna Ellis, moved away from Dominion Voting Systems Systems claims after weeks of promising they would provide evidence on how the election was stolen.

Other claims replaced those initial Dominion Systems voting theory. One was that dead people voted, which ended up just being stories of ballots being sent to dead people and those dead people's ballots never actually being cast. One news outlet actually investigated a viral list of 14,000 dead Michigan voters who allegedly cast ballots in the election. They put a whole team on pulling a random sample of 50 names, tracking the people down, seeing what came of it. In the end, 37 were dead and never cast a ballot. Five were alive and voted. Eight were alive and didn't vote. Zero dead people's ballots were cast in Michigan. The Trump campaign actually tried to make this claim in court in Georgia. His team alleged that 5,000 dead people voted in Georgia. That claim was

investigated by law enforcement. And just recently, in sworn testimony under oath, Georgia's Secretary of State, a Republican, said there were, in fact, dead people who had cast ballots in the 2020 election in Georgia. Four of them. Four dead people whose ballots had been stolen and cast in the election. In each case, relatives of the deceased had cast their ballots. Not 5,000, but four. Again, voter fraud does happen, so this is not entirely surprising and also not unique to the 2020 election. It's worth noting that Trump lost Georgia by 12,000 votes. There were also claims that thousands of votes were dropped in the middle of the night, you just heard this here, from Wayne by Democrats, which somehow evaded any detection

from Republican poll watchers at every poll in every swing state and were then counted and illegally added to Democrats' tally. Of course, for those of us who stayed up on election night, it sounded like Wayne went to sleep, we know that the vote count never actually stopped, and the late surge from Biden was predictable. In fact, I told my readers to expect it weeks before the election because in most swing states, mail-in ballots are tabulated last. Here's what the BBC News said two days before the election. This is a direct quote from their article. Early tallies may be deceptive.

This is due in part to more differences between states and reporting. Some states like Florida and Arizona begin pre-processing ballots weeks before November 3rd. Others like Wisconsin and Pennsylvania won't touch those votes until Election Day, meaning they will likely be slower to count. In some states, ballots cast in person on Election Day will be counted first. These counts are expected to favor Mr. Trump, as his supporters are expected to be more likely to vote on that day. Since mail-in ballots were predominantly coming from Democrats who were more fearful of COVID-19 and more encouraged to vote by mail by their preferred candidates, it was obvious that the votes counted last were going to disproportionately favor Biden, especially given

that Trump had repeatedly told his supporters that mail-in voting was unreliable. So, Wayne, the fact that you went to bed when Trump was ahead and woke up after mail-in ballots were counted to Biden leading should not have been surprising. It played out exactly as reporters and election experts said it would, exactly as I told my readers it would. It should be noted, too, that the only reason this happened was that Republicans in states in Wisconsin and Pennsylvania refused to tally and process votes before Election Day. You may have noticed that in Florida and Ohio, where elections are also run by Republicans, we did not have any problems on election day. That's because those Republicans passed bills to allow mail-in voting to be counted earlier. There are a number of other major flaws with films like 2,000 Mules, which I covered in a lengthy 8,000-word piece in my newsletter, Tangle.

It would be impossible and probably take an hour to recap them all here. This will be my one plug for the day. You can read my full breakdown at readtangle.com. But to name just a few things that were misleading or outright lies. First, Dinesh D'Souza never once in the film concedes that Georgia Bureau of Investigations actually looked into a few of the so-called mules and found that all of the ones they were investigating were turning in legal ballots of family members. I'm going to say that one more time because it's very important. D'Souza featured people in his film who were actually investigated and cleared by the Georgia Bureau of Investigations. D'Souza and his team alleged repeatedly that these mules were making

several stops at several drop boxes in the same day. That is the entire premise of their geotracking cell phone data, if it is to be believed, but nowhere in the movie did they show the same mule twice. When pressed on this, D'Souza, to his credit, produced still images of one person visiting the same ballot box on two separate days, though that would be easily explainable if the person was, as it appears, by a badge he had around his neck, some kind of health care worker, or turning in ballots for family members on separate days. It's also possible that he was voting illegally, in which case D'Souza should turn that information over to the appropriate authorities. Finally, please just use common sense. There is one whistleblower in that

entire film, a woman who wasn't even a mule but purports to have witnessed a cash handoff. In election fraud cases like the one in North Carolina, people on the congressman's own staff testified against him. We have not found one person. Wayne does not have one person. I don't have one person. Nobody don't have one person. Nobody in this room has one person who has confessed to participating in a vast scheme to overthrow the election. There's supposed to be 2,000 mules, maybe 50,000. Where are they? Where are the people who participated? Where's the smoking gun emails? Where are the confessions that we get in every single election fraud case we have in this country? This did not go unnoticed. Victor Reynolds, the director of the Georgia Bureau of Investigations, wrote on September 20th, 2021,

to the chairman of the Georgia Republican Party, quote, saliently, it has been said that there is a source that can validate ballot harvesting. Despite repeated requests, that source has not been provided to either the GBI or the FBI. Based on Charles Yu's award-winning book, Interior Chinatown follows the story of Willis Wu, a background character trapped in a police procedural who dreams about a world beyond Chinatown. When he inadvertently becomes a witness to a crime, Willis begins to unravel a criminal web, his family's buried history, and what it feels like to be in the spotlight. Interior Chinatown is streaming November 19th, only on Disney+.

In sum, 64 cases were heard and decided related to Trump's legal efforts to overturn the election. 20 were dismissed before a hearing on the merits. 30 were dismissed that included a hearing on the merits. And only one case involving far too few votes to impact the election did Trump's team prevail. That was in Pennsylvania. This was a case about voter ID deadlines, not election fraud. I happen to support voter ID laws. One Trump-appointed judge said of the allegations, charges require specific allegations and proof. We have neither here. Another Trump-appointed judge warned that if cases like these succeeded, any disappointed loser in a presidential election able to hire a team of clever lawyers could flag claim deviations from election results and cast doubt on election results.

Twenty-two federal judges appointed by Republican presidents, including ten appointed by Trump himself, and at least 24 elected or appointed Republican state judges dismissed the president's claim in court. At least 11 lawyers have been referred for disciplinary proceedings due to bad faith and baseless efforts to undermine the outcome of the 2020 presidential election. And now, Dominion Voting Systems is successfully pursuing a defamation lawsuit against Sidney Powell and others for their lies. That lawsuit has resulted in retractions from Fox News and Newsmax. As Trump's own faithful Attorney General William Barr put it, the claims are, quote, BS, completely BS, absolute rubbish,

idiotic, bogus, stupid, crazy, crazy stuff, complete nonsense, end quote, a great, great disservice to the country. And Barr said Trump is, quote, detached from reality, end quote, if he believes them. Now, we are here today also to discuss whether Trump should run in 2024. That argument is easy. I think I have about a minute left. The fact that these allegations are all hogwash is precisely why he should not. Trump lost in 2020 by 7 million votes, fair and square. He will probably lose again in 2024. And even if he won, he'd enter office at 78 years old, the same egregiously old age that President Biden started his term at in 2021. Even Trump's former chief of staff, Mick Mulvaney, won't support him in 2024.

His former campaign manager, Brad Parscale, has said he was embarrassed that he helped get Trump elected. His former vice president may run against him and his former attorney general thinks he's detached from reality. As president, Trump bungled the COVID-19 response, was impeached twice, and oversaw the only non-peaceful transfer of power in US history. On top of all of that, he is currently entangled in a half dozen investigations. On top of all of that, I've got about 30 seconds left, I think. I'm watching the clock. On top of all of that, he's currently entangled in a half dozen investigations.

Federal prosecutors are investigating him over the January 6th riots. The D.C. Attorney General is investigating him over financial fraud. The Manhattan District Attorney and the New York State Attorney General are investigating him over financial fraud at the Trump Organization.

The Fulton County, Georgia District Attorney is investigating him over criminal election fraud. I think the time is up. Sorry. I have a full ten minutes. No, no, no. I've been keeping it. I'm sorry. Sorry.

Can I say one last sentence? Seriously. Okay. The crowd is out. All right. Look. Let me. Look, I'm going to take a prerogative here,

and I think Wayne will agree with me. Let everyone talk. Every speaker at this conference... I agree. ...deserves respect. And if you... Agree. If you disagree with them...

Agree. If you disagree with them, you are practicing the tactics of the people you don't like. All right. Wayne? disagree with them, you are practicing the tactics of the people you don't like. So here's the deal. Look, I met him backstage. Isaac is a really nice guy. And by the way, because I was born Jewish, even though I took Christ as my savior 32 years ago, I was born Jewish and I have a lot of Jewish relatives, a lot of Jewish friends. I'm able to get along with liberals because all my Jewish friends are liberal and I get along with them. Doesn't mean I ever agree with them. The fact is this country is screwed. The fact is

they stole the election specifically so they could do what they're doing now. It is a communist takeover, a globalist communist authoritarian fascist takeover of the United States of America. They want to mask you for life. They want to lock you down for life. They want to force vaccinate you. They want to force vaccinate your children. This whole thing, they want to open the borders. They want to force vaccinate you. They want to force vaccinate your children. This whole thing, they want to open the borders. They want to destroy your entire energy industry and make us have $2,000 a month electric bills with no alternative other than green energy. That's such a failure that the country of Germany is getting ready for starvation and freezing this

winter. Green energy that they switched to in Europe is a disaster. It cannot work. This is an attempt to destroy this country. Coming up, you're going to have food shortages. Coming up, you're going to have gas shortages. Coming up, there's going to be no truckers on the road. Coming up, farmers aren't going to be able to farm. Diesel fuel is unaffordable and you're going to have massive shortages. So the trucks won't be able to get to market. This was a plan. This is George Soros. This is Klaus Schwab. This is Bill Gates. This is a destruction, a purposeful, intentional destruction of the greatest nation in world history ever blessed by God. And it all started with one thing, a stolen 2020 election. Thank you, Wayne. Last thing I'm going to say.

Thank you. Last thing I'm going to say. Last thing. The biggest lie ever told. We're the only country in the world, the only major country that has no voter ID. The simplest thing in the world to have a photo ID issued by the government. Is it racist? Mexico to vote demands photo ID issued by the government and a thumbprint.

And I just found out five days ago from a worker at my home who's of Puerto Rican descent that you can't vote in an American territory, Puerto Rico, without photo ID and a thumbprint. And the United States is run by people that look you in the eye and lie to you and tell you voter ID doesn't matter. That's how they stole the election. Please. Boom. Because we're running late, we're going to cut it to about four minutes. Okay, that's fine. All right, listen, I just want to finish my remarks because it sounds like maybe I went over time.

The summary of what I was getting to was that Trump is under a lot of investigations right now, and that's not a typically good thing for somebody who's running for president. Usually it doesn't play well with voters. My closing statements were that he is toxic right now. For moderates, independents, women, and swing state voters, he needs to win, all of which is why he should step aside and allow any of the many capable, like-minded Republicans like Ron DeSantis to fill his shoes. Okay, now I want to just address a couple of things that Wayne said. Thank you, yes.

Look, Wayne said at the top in the beginning about Nevada and his experience here, and I'm just pulling up my notes because I was typing a little bit while he was talking. He said, you know, everybody he knows in Las Vegas is a Republican, and yet the elections always go to Democrats here. They were one in 2020. Look, we have voter registration. 24% of voters in California are Republicans. So he said all these voters in California are Democrats. It's not true.

There's more voters who are Republicans in California than there are in Louisiana or Alabama, many of the biggest states in the South, okay? Of the 2.12 million total registered voters in Nevada, Democrats have a major lead in registration of 715,000 people, okay? That's why they won the election here. There's more Democrats in this state than there are Republicans. I understand Wayne might have many friends in Las Vegas who are Republicans, but that's the truth, okay? None of the states were fixed for Trump. Is that really what we're supposed to believe? That the only election fraud that happened was in states where Democrats won? We're supposed to believe that Democrats rigged the election, but they didn't rig it to take control of Congress and the Senate? They have a 50-50 split in the Senate, and they lost seats in the House.

But they somehow miraculously just won the presidency. The truth is that many moderate Republican voters, a lot of them are sitting in this room, I can hear them clapping, although they're very outnumbered, okay, they voted against Trump in 2020. That's why he lost. And it's why he would lose again if he runs in 2024, especially after what happened on January 6th, especially after the fact that he's obsessed over the election since it happened, especially after the fact that he is now under investigation in many different districts across the country. Okay, thank you.

Now, can I give a very quick response to that? Very quick. You're going to do it as part of your answer to my question. Okay. We're going to go by the rules as they are written. You can incorporate into the answer. I'm going to go by the rules as they are written. You can incorporate into the answer. I'm going to ask you. So my job as a moderator is to have tough questions before I get to your questions of both sides. I will not be interrupted. Do you hear me? I will not be interrupted. My first question will be for...

I am. I am. Isaac, here's my tough question. The Washington Post had a poll a few years ago, three or four, in which it asked people not just what they thought about voter ID or other questions, but whether they thought voter fraud was a serious problem in America. And it turned out it was about in the 60s, mid-60s. And not only did African Americans and Hispanics and Asians support voter ID in almost the same numbers as Caucasian Americans, but it turned out that more minority voters thought that voter fraud was a serious problem in America than whites. Why would that be? It's a good question. I mean, I think, first of all, there's been a ton of coverage about election fraud and voter fraud, even going into the 2016 election.

When you remember, Trump claimed that three to five million votes were stolen. He didn't ever produce evidence of that. But Hillary Clinton, after losing, blamed her loss on Russia. There was lots of sour grapes. In 2001, like you said, we had a very controversial election. But why would that affect minority voters more than white voters? I don't know that. I mean, it's a good question.

I haven't thought about it much. Let me take moderator's prerogative. I will give you the answer to that. I have reported from Detroit, Milwaukee, St. Louis, Philadelphia, Gadsden County, Alabama, Green County, Alabama, the biggest victims of that voter fraud which does take place in this country, which is proven, are minority voters. And I'll tell you why. There are minorities living in inner cities and rural backwaters in this country that lack good schools, good roads, good public services, and sometimes they

rise up and they want to change their government. And the political machines, sometimes run by minorities, sometimes run by others, will sit and crush them. The old saying, you can't fight city hall. I talked to the guy in Detroit who lost to Kwame Kilpatrick. He was the leading black city councilman, Freeman Dixon. I talked to Bob B. Franks in St. Louis, who had an election stolen from him until a federal judge overturned the election. They held a new election, and the runoff, he won 70% of the vote. I have met all over this country minority voters and minority candidates who have had their elections stolen from them, and you have read none of that in any of the national media. That's a fact

and it's all in my book as well. Can I just say really quick, that sounds like a totally plausible response to me. I mean I was not familiar with that point, never heard of it before. This is my point, you are an extremely smart thorough reporter and I really mean that. The fact that you didn't know about that is the story. The fact that someone as knowledgeable as you. Now, Wayne. I was going to say, on this topic, I think the average reporter also

doesn't realize that almost every black person and every Hispanic in America is now against defund the police because it hurts their neighborhoods. And many minorities are waking up to that, which is why Donald Trump had the biggest breakthrough in the history of presidential politics with minority voters.

And in the most recent Wall Street Journal poll, as you're telling me that he's unpopular, the same lie I've heard for six years now, the latest poll shows 50-50 with Hispanics, 70-30 love Trump, Hispanic males. He's made the biggest breakthrough of our lifetime with minorities. Now I have a question for you. So in March and April of 2020, COVID hit and states all over the country adopted emergency rules without consulting their legislature. Some of them were

issued by governors like Andrew Cuomo, who did not have good intentions. We now know that. Some were issued by health directors who were never elected by anybody. And those basically led to the explosion that Isaac mentioned of mail-in voting. Registrars all over the country saw an unprecedented number of mail-in ballots. They couldn't take them. In Las Vegas, they dialed down the dials on the verification. They actually had machines to verify the signatures. They down dialed the dials dramatically because otherwise they would never have processed all of the signatures. There was no signature match.

Let me finish my question. Right. So several people in the election integrity area, people like Cleta Mitchell, people like Christian Adams, people like my co-author Hans von Spakowski, went to the White House, they were invited by the White House, and they were asked, what is the impact of this

problem? And they told the White House, this is DEFCON 3. You cannot wait till November 5th to contest the election, because there's only 34 days between the election and the Electoral College voting. You'll never be, even if it's happened, you'll never prove it. You've got to address this immediately. You have to have all your lawyers. Okay. Brad Parscale has said this publicly and to me, he was Trump's campaign manager. He went, he was there at the white house. They met with Jared Kushner, who it turns out was the president's son-in-law, but he was actually his real campaign manager. And there was the problem. There was a three-hour meeting. And Jared Kushner took careful notes, said that what they're saying was very important, and said, I'll get back to you.

He did nothing. Right. I interviewed Donald Trump about this. He had no response. Didn't the Trump campaign lose this election before the first vote was counted because they didn't take seriously the COVID regulations? Listen, I have credibility with my fans because I always tell you what I'm thinking, whether it's good or bad. I mean, I'm 90% pro-Trump, but 10% of the time, I tell you what I think he did wrong. Number one, his biggest mistake, if he wants to win in 2024, and I'll get right back to your question, is shut up about the vaccines and stop taking credit for

the vaccines. That's his single biggest weakness. That's not what I asked about. And number two, he did not prepare for a stolen election. It was a gigantic mistake. I rooted for four years. I wrote column after column, which were all handed directly to him. Get voter ID. Get voter ID. So, Wayne, here's the $24,000 question. Yeah, what's changed? No. If Jared Kushner has a role in the 2024 campaign, are you still endorsing Donald Trump? Listen, I'm with Trump.

Are you endorsing him? I'm the most loyal guy in the world. I'm with Trump. But I think Jared is the problem. Jared is one of the biggest problems Trump's got. Jared's no good. And Ivanka's no good. Big problem.

Okay. Now, you came here, and you deserve the rest of the questions. I'm going to shut up. Do I have any questions? But I never got one rebuttal at all to some of the things he said. I need a quick one-minute rebuttal. 30 seconds. All we've heard from liberals and media, day and night, it's just like the Soviet Union.

It's brainwashing. Come on. It's propaganda. Come on. And all day long, they're so quick to say, as Isaac was, nobody likes Trump. No one likes Trump. Can I remind you of a couple things they want you to forget? He got the most votes of any president in history. He got the most votes of any Republican in history. And he got the most additional votes of any president

in history. 11 million more votes. And you want me to believe that a brain-dead zombie with dementia, with diapers and a mask, hiding in the basement, beat him, and got more votes than Obama. Okay. It's a crock. Okay. It's a crock. Are there questions from the audience? Somebody was going to bring me note cards.

I'll ask this question. What I've noticed is that the people who are the biggest opponents of the concept that there was a stolen election says that, but we can't prove it because we can't find enough instances in it. And my question is this. Why is that considered, the lack of evidence considered? Thank you. Why is the lack of evidence considered a conclusion that you can make? Let me give you an example.

If I own a retail store, I know I've got shoplifting. I've got inventory shrinkage. Do I catch every person that shoplifts? No way. But I know at the end, when I do my inventory count, what I should have had versus what I have, there was definitely shoplifting. Most crimes do not get discovered. Okay, thank you. It's an excellent question. The problem with the framing that you have is that, you know, in our election systems, we have very intentional levels of checks and balances in order to make sure people who aren't eligible to vote can't vote, okay?

That's the whole point. If you are a store manager, right, who's worried about shoplifting, and you're watching 24-hour footage of your store every day, it's possible that you're going to miss a lot of people shoplifting, but you're also going to catch a lot of people shoplifting. And the more people you catch, the fewer items you're going to lose. My proposition to you is that we've caught a lot of the people who have committed election fraud.

Now, again, hold on a second. What you're suggesting is a really difficult thing because you're asking somebody to prove a negative. It's like me saying that aliens exist. I don't have evidence for it, but you need to prove to me that they don't exist. You're telling me that election fraud exists, but you don't have the goods, and I need to prove to you that it doesn't exist. How can I do that? No, no, we're going to have another question. He didn't ask it just of Isaac. He might have asked it of me. No, he asked it of Isaac.

That's not true. Wayne, we're going to have another question. Well, he didn't ask it just of Isaac. He might have asked it of me. No, he asked it of Isaac. That's not true. Wayne, we're going to do another question. Okay. Go ahead. No, is there a microphone, please? Thank you. Who's your question addressed to? Whoever.

Okay. So if they change some of the rules before the election because of COVID, and some of those changes needed to go through legislature, or they were contrary to state constitutions, how can those votes be considered legal votes? So in other words, if mail-out ballots... Yeah, right. Exactly. Some court decisions, if I'm correct with these, are saying mail-out ballots weren't really legal as a way to cast votes in certain states, but they were allowed because courts said they could or whatever. So if you show up for the football game and the day before they say, oh, there's all new rules, how is that somehow kosher?

I think it's much worse than that. As the football expert, I can tell you my comparison with this election was it's a Monday night football game. My team just won 20 to 10. And when I wake up in the morning, I found out they found 30 extra points in the locker room with no umpire there. It's a joke. It's a joke. Listen, Wisconsin, Wisconsin, as far as I'm concerned, is overturned right now because they just ruled the Supreme Court that ballot drop boxes are illegal. Every vote in those boxes should not be counted. We're trying to get to more people in the audience.

Just to respond to your question, I think something you said there was really revealing. You said, how can if courts rule that we can vote by mail during the election, and now the rulings are coming out that voting was illegal by mail, or in the case of Wisconsin, the Wisconsin Supreme Court did just rule that they're going to limit Dropbox ballots in future elections, okay? Which means that in future elections, if a bunch of people voted by Dropbox, that would be illegal. In 2020, Dropbox voting was available to everybody, Democrats and Republicans both. That's the point. But it wasn't authorized in the law. Well, there were, I mean, of course it was. And by the way.

It wasn't authorized by the legislature, but it was authorized by courts. That's why people voted via ballot box. And you know what else happened? I mean, that's a very important distinction. You know what the Wisconsin Election Commission is? They're the ones who authorize it, not the court. Okay, okay, but they have the power of the law behind them. And you know what else was obvious and was conscious?

I could put a sentence in, John. No, another question. Hi. I'm the moderator now. Sorry. You're not being fair against the Republican in the battle. You're going overboard. We've had far more time than I've had.

Come on. Do you know what the percentage of time you've had already is? Not enough. 58%. 58%. Not enough. 58%, he said. My name's Chuck Udermolen. I live in the suburbs of Milwaukee, Wisconsin.

I think I've met you before, John. But anyway, I was just wondering if, I haven't heard any of you talk about, and I apologize, I haven't read your new book, John. But in Milwaukee, what they did... Nursing homes. No, no, no, no. Forget that. No, that's not where I'm going. What they did in milwaukee you talk about rigging an election as a very very close election that are you coming to a question

yes are you aware that just a day before they printed the ballots the city of milwaukee said oh we made a mistake when we gave the Green Party access to the ballot. We actually look at the time when they were supposed to put in all their petition signatures to get on the ballot, and we made a mistake by one minute. They filed one minute late.

I think I know where you're going. I think I know where you're going. I'm trying to get other questions in. So, Isaac, this is not fraud, but it is manipulation. It's legal fraud. Wayne, am I going to be able to speak? I'm the moderator. They didn't come to hear the moderator.

They came to hear us. Boom. Wayne. Wayne. You don't get that. Wayne, you're at 59%. You hear me? Yeah, I got you. You're at 59%. You hear me? Yeah, I got you.

You're at 59%. I think I'm more like 79%, but that's okay. Okay, I know. So, Isaac, the Green Party is just being thrown off the ballot in, I think, North Pennsylvania. It's been thrown off the ballot all over the country. Is there unfairness to third parties, and I know the Libertarian Party certainly has these problems, where people who believe that a party is going to affect their chances, they're removed from the ballot, and that's a form of rigging the election. Absolutely. We live in a duopoly. I believe our

election systems and our country has a ton of problems. Andrew Yang's here promoting the Forward Party. I interviewed him on my podcast a few months ago. You know, I don't agree with Andrew on everything, but I think he absolutely is above the target when he talks about the fact that our country needs more representation, more political parties. I 100% agree. You won't find any objection. Okay, next question. There's a lot of complaints about voter ID being prejudicial and whatnot. And what I'm wondering, when I came here, I flew from Colorado. I had to show my driver's license to get on the airplane. I had to show my driver's license to get into a hotel. And your question is? Why is voter ID so unfair and nobody says anything about ID to get on an airplane or a hotel.

Yes, and you're going to be agreeing with me, so I get to talk for 45 seconds first. In 2015, the following group of people met in the Obama White House with a proposal to break the stalemate on voter ID. I've reported on this. They were Martin Luther King III, Andrew Young, who was Martin Luther King's confidant, Jimmy Carter, and Bill Clinton. They said, let's stop this war on voter ID because we want everyone to have an ID because you can't be part of the mainstream of American life. You can't get Medicare. You can't get cash or check. You can't travel. Exactly. So let's end this stalemate. Let's say as a final ID, if no one

has anything else, we'll put a photo on a social security card that'll cost nine cents, and people can show that and they can vote. So Obama, you know, was ambivalent. He said, you got to clear it with Eric Holder at the Justice Department. So they took it over to the Justice Department. Five months later, the guy from Martin Luther King III's office calls and says, what's the decision? And they said, oh, we can't do this. We consulted our official liaison to the African-American community. And they said, absolutely not. And the guy says, well, who's your official liaison to the African-American community? Oh, Al Sharpton. That's the answer. And so my answer is voter ID is how they're stealing every election. That's the key. That's why they're against it so vehemently

and they act like it's no big deal and it's racist. And I'll give you a story that proves it. No, because we're running out of time. Wayne, you're still at 57. All right. out of time. Wayne, you're still at 57. All right. Listen, yes, that's partly true, but 32 states have some form of voter ID right now. 36. All right, I stand corrected. A large number of those are photo ID. So we are much better off than we were in 2020. A lot more states have passed laws. And this is my final question to Isaac. Isaac, we had S-1 and H-R-1, the nationalization effectively of election law. A lot of things were said about that. We had a debate for a whole year. The needle, even the needle in the minority community on issues like voter ID and voter suppression and all those other things, didn't move despite all of the media coverage and all of this stuff. What was your opinion of S-1 and H-R-1, the Democratic

Pelosi-Schumer effort to change the election laws from the states? And do you think that it had a fair hearing? And do you think there's a reason why it didn't seem to resonate with voters? I mean, look, it's a thousands-page page long bill. And I think a lot of this conversation that we're having right now is about voter ID law. So I'll address that specifically. I am supportive of voter ID laws under the condition that the proposal looks like the one that you described was brought to the White House, which is that we ensure that people are given those IDs by the federal government. As you know, I think, you know, the lawsuits that Democrats have had to fight over

voted ID laws probably cost more than it would have cost them to just give everybody in the country an ID. And I think that's a totally fair criticism of the Democratic Party. I am not somebody who pulls punches on the Democratic Party, okay? The issue is that if we put those laws in the place without that kind of federal support, there are, believe it or not, millions of people who don't have a government issue. I have one sense. You're going to get more. You're getting more than that. All right.

We're wrapping it up. Wayne gets to say, I'm going to give you 30 seconds, and then we're going to leave. And we want to thank the audience. You ended up being extremely attentive and extremely polite. And I want to thank you for that. And they vote, don't they? Of course they do. And I want to thank you for your kindness and they vote, don't they? They want to vote. Of course they do. And I want to thank you for your

kindness and courtesy to the speakers. Go ahead, Wayne. So first of all, what Isaac just said, I got to tell you something. Everybody already has ID. Democrats just don't want them to vote, to show it when they vote. That's all. They've got ID. That's how they're stealing elections. No voter ID and combine it with no voter signature match, mail-in ballots, ballot harvesting, drop boxes, nursing home voting. The list goes on and on and on. The elections are being stolen. I got to tell you one quick story about Harry Reid. So I lived in Anthem Country Club here in Las Vegas for almost 20 years.

And I, you know, thank God, God bless America, a beautiful home. Who moves next to me? Harry Reid. What does it take to get into Anthem Country Club? It takes walls, gates, armed guards, and a sign at the front that says no one under any circumstances

is allowed in without government-issued photo ID. And that's your neighbor. They all believe in walls and they all believe in ID. They're liars. Let's give Wayne and Isaac a cheer. Our newsletter is written by Isaac Saul, edited by Bailey Saul, Sean Brady,

Ari Weitzman, and produced in conjunction with Tangle's social media manager, Magdalena Bokova, who also helped create our logo. The podcast is edited by Trevor Eichhorn, and music Thank you. We'll see you next time. Interior Chinatown follows the story of Willis Wu, a background character trapped in a police procedural who dreams about a world beyond Chinatown. When he inadvertently becomes a witness to a crime, Willis begins to unravel a criminal web, his family's buried history,

and what it feels like to be in the spotlight. Interior Chinatown is streaming November 19th, only on Disney+.