Tangle - Kamala Harris’s latest economic proposals

Episode Date: October 16, 2024

On Monday, Vice President Kamala Harris unveiled new proposals focused on helping black men build wealth, capitalize on economic opportunities, and protect their rights. Details of Harris’s plan include:Ad-free podcasts are here!Many listeners have been asking for an ad-free version of this podcast that they could subscribe to — and we finally launched it. You can go to tanglemedia.supercast.com to sign up!You can read today's podcast⁠ ⁠⁠here⁠⁠⁠, our “Under the Radar” story ⁠here and today’s “Have a nice day” story ⁠here⁠.Check out our latest YouTube video on misinformation about North Carolina here.Check out Episode 6 of our podcast series, The Undecideds. Take the survey: What do you think of Kamala Harris’s agenda for black men? Let us know!You can subscribe to Tangle by clicking here or drop something in our tip jar by clicking here. Our podcast is written by Isaac Saul and edited and engineered by Dewey Thomas. Music for the podcast was produced by Diet 75. Our newsletter is edited by Managing Editor Ari Weitzman, Will Kaback, Bailey Saul, Sean Brady, and produced in conjunction with Tangle’s social media manager Magdalena Bokowa, who also created our logo. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

From Searchlight Pictures comes A Real Pain, one of the most moving and funny films of the year. Written and directed by Oscar-nominated Jesse Eisenberg and starring Eisenberg and Emmy Award winner Kieran Culkin, A Real Pain is a comedy about mismatched cousins who reunite for a tour through Poland to honor their beloved grandmother. The adventure takes a turn when the pair's old tensions resurface against the backdrop of their family history. A Real Pain was one of the buzziest titles at Sundance Film Festival this year, garnering rave reviews and acclaim from both critics and audiences alike. See A Real Pain only in theaters November 15th.

Got a mortgage? Chances are you're thinking about your payments right now. Need help? Ask your bank about relief measures that may be available to you. Learn more at Canada.ca slash it pays to know. A message from the Government of Canada. Based on Charles Yu's award-winning book, Interior Chinatown follows the story of Willis Wu,

a background character trapped in a police procedural who dreams about a world beyond Chinatown. When he inadvertently becomes a witness to a crime, Willis begins to unravel a criminal web, his family's buried history, and what it feels like to be in the spotlight. Interior Chinatown is streaming November 19th, only on Disney+. From executive producer Isaac Saul, this is Tangle. Good morning, good afternoon, and good evening, and welcome to the Tangle podcast,

the place we get views from across the political spectrum, some independent thinking, and a little bit of my take. I'm your host, Isaac Saul, and on today's episode, we're going to be talking about Kamala Harris's new proposal she just released, Economic Proposals Aimed at Black Men in America. It's being called her Black Men Agenda. I'm not really sure. It's a little bit of a clunky name for a policy rollout, but we're going to go with it. We'll talk a bit about what she is proposing rollout, but we're going to go with it. We'll talk a bit about what she is proposing and how feasible some of it is. Before we do, a few things I want to get into. First of all, we have a clarification from last Friday's edition on ballot initiatives. We included a proposed constitutional amendment that's taking place in Utah. This was in the kind of footnote section of the podcast.

that's taking place in Utah. This was in the kind of footnote section of the podcast. Several readers from Utah wrote in to let us know that the amendment had actually been voided by a state judge who determined the measure's language omitted key information about what the amendment would entail. The measure is still going to appear on the ballot, but the judge said the results, quote,

shall be given no effect. Kind of an interesting outcome there. So thanks to several listeners who shared this update and apologies for the oversight on our part. Also, I wanted to give a quick heads up that in this Sunday's members-only podcast, I'm going for it. I'm gonna make some predictions.

With the election just weeks away, I think it's time for me to put my name down on a few calls for the race. So I'm going to predict some of the results. Who's going to win the White House? Which parties will control the Senate and the House? And a few other things I think we can expect in the days leading up to and after the election. If you have things that you want to hear predictions about, feel free to write in and let us know.

You can reach me, Isaac, I-S-A-A-C at readtangle.com. This is going to take place again in the Sunday podcast, which is members only. And if you haven't done that yet, you can go to tanglemedia.supercast.com to become a Tangle member and get ad-free podcasts and the Sunday shows. All right, with that, I'm going to send it over to John

for the main pod, and I'll be back for my take. Thanks, Isaac, and welcome, everybody. Here are your quick hits for today. First up, a county judge in Georgia blocked a rule passed last month by the state election board requiring a hand count of election ballots. Separately, a different Georgia judge ruled that officials must certify their county's election results, responding to a state election board rule allowing election officials to conduct a reasonable inquiry before certification. Number two, Secretary of State Antony Blinken and Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin sent a letter to Israeli leaders saying U.S. military aid could be restricted if Israel does not take

steps to improve the humanitarian situation in Gaza in the next 30 days. Number three, North Carolina gubernatorial candidate Lieutenant Governor Mark Robinson filed a defamation lawsuit against CNN over a story it published last month revealing controversial online posts allegedly made by Robinson. Number four, North Carolina Governor Roy Cooper said at least 92 people are still missing after Hurricane Helene as the search and rescue operations continue. And number five, survivors and relatives of victims of the 2023 mass shooting in Lewiston, Maine, in which 18 people were killed, began the process of suing the U.S. Army for its alleged failure to stop the Army reservist accused of the shooting.

Vice President Kamala Harris has unveiled a new economic agenda that is specifically tailored to Black men. The plan includes forgiving one million business loans, creating more apprenticeships, and studying diseases that disproportionately impact African-American men. The opportunity agenda for black men also includes legalizing recreational marijuana to create a booming industry. Harris announced the plan in the battleground state of Pennsylvania, which she visited for the 10th time this election season. The announcement comes days after former President Barack Obama criticized Black men in person, saying they weren't fond of the idea of having a woman as president. On Monday, Vice President Kamala Harris unveiled new proposals focused on helping Black men build wealth,

capitalize on economic opportunities, and protect their rights. Details of Harris' plan include providing 1 million forgivable loans of up to $20,000 to Black entrepreneurs and others who have a good idea but lack the resources, connections, and access to capital to get their business off the ground, launching a national health equity initiative focused on Black men, legalizing marijuana at the federal level to break down unjust legal barriers that hold Black men and other Americans back, lowering costs by enacting the first-ever federal ban on corporate price gouging for food and groceries, and lowering rent and providing down payment assistance to triple the number of

new first-time Black homeowners. To support this agenda, Harris says she will provide the forgivable loans through a partnership with the Small Business Administration, invest in programs to promote apprenticeships and recruit more Black teachers, and support a regulatory framework for cryptocurrency. In the final stretch of her campaign, Harris has become increasingly focused on turning out Black men to vote. Polling continues to show her trailing President Joe Biden's 2020 numbers with Black voters, especially Black men. Harris is currently leading Trump among Black voters by a 78 to 15% margin, according to the latest New York Times-Siena College poll.

Biden, however, won roughly 90% of black voters in 2020. Harris' surrogates have also been speaking to black voters on the campaign trail, including former President Barack Obama. Last week, Obama made waves when he addressed black men at a campaign speech in Pittsburgh, saying it was not acceptable to sit out this election and suggesting some are holding out on supporting Harris because she is a woman. Donald Trump's outreach is gold sneakers, t-shirts of mugshots

and insults and putting other communities down, Harris's campaign communications director Michael Tyler said in a statement to CNN. The vice president is actually speaking to what Black men can achieve under her presidency. The Trump campaign responded to the new proposals by saying Harris is in full-blown desperation mode as she spends the waning days of the campaign attempting to stop the bleeding among voting blocs most traditionally aligned with Democrats. Today, we're going to break down some of the reactions from the right and the left to Harris's latest agenda rollout, and then Isaac's take. We'll be right back after this quick break. Based on Charles Yu's award-winning book, Interior Chinatown follows the story of Willis Wu,

a background character trapped in a police procedural who dreams about a world beyond Chinatown. When he inadvertently becomes a witness to a crime, Willis begins to unravel a criminal web, his family's buried history, and what it feels like to be in the spotlight. Interior Chinatown is streaming November 19th, only on Disney+. From Searchlight Pictures comes A Real Pain, one of the most moving and funny films of the year. Written and directed by Oscar-nominated Jesse Eisenberg and starring Eisenberg and Emmy Award winner Kieran Culkin, A Real Pain is a comedy about mismatched cousins who reunite for a tour through Poland to honor their beloved grandmother. The adventure takes a turn when the pair's old tensions resurface against the backdrop of their family history.

A Real Pain was one of the buzziest titles at Sundance Film Festival this year, garnering rave reviews and acclaim from both critics and audiences alike. See A Real Pain only in theaters November 15th. All right, first up, let's start with what the right is saying. The right is highly critical of the proposal, suggesting it would be both ineffective and unconstitutional. Some say it's a shallow attempt to shore up support among Black voters. Others call the plan an offense to Americans of all ethnicities. The Wall Street Journal editorial board wrote about Harris' pitch to Black men.

Kamala Harris has a political problem winning the support of young black men. And on Monday, she issued a last minute SOS by unveiling an opportunity agenda for black men. At least she's not accusing them of sexism as Barack Obama did last week. But her grab bag of policies isn't likely to pull many from Donald Trump, the board said.

Her plan calls for $20,000 in forgivable government loans for 1 million minorities to start businesses. These are de facto grants because nearly all are likely to be forgiven. It's better that she's focusing on wealth creation rather than solely income redistribution. But allocating government loan forgiveness on the basis of race is unconstitutional. Harris also pitches more government investment in black male teachers and on identity politics theory that minorities learn better when they are taught by people who look like them. Black male mentors for young people are important, but the better way to help black boys would be to break union control over public schools, which disproportionately harms low-income and black students, the board wrote. It's good news that Ms. Harris and Democrats are being forced to compete for black voters, who look fondly on Mr. Trump's first-term economy, she may need a better pitch. In red state, Jeff Charles argued

the agenda exemplifies Democrats' habit of making promises they have no intention of fulfilling. Harris's plan includes provisions aimed at addressing systemic inequalities, economic empowerment, criminal justice reform, and improving access to health care. The proposal is supposedly designed to decrease disparities in incarceration rates, improve educational opportunities, and support Black small business owners and entrepreneurs, Charles said. It all sounds so lovely, does it not? But there's plenty of reason for doubt.

When you look at how Harris has been polling with Black Americans, especially men, it's easy to see why she is making this proposal. 15% of Black voters plan to pull the lever for former President Donald Trump, which would be a six-point increase from 2020. These numbers should be terrifying the Harris Walls campaign. Democrats have traditionally seen success when they win at least 90% of the Black vote, but this data shows the campaign is in trouble, Charles wrote. Of course, if this proposal works and enough Black people vote for her to win the election, it won't mean a damn thing. Harris will simply say, thank you, Black folks, and then ignore all their concerns for the next four years until it is time to pretend to care about them again in 2028. In National Review, Noah Rothman called the plan bigots for Harris. We should expect our politicians to resist the temptation

to balkanize the electorate for the sake of fleeting parochial electoral advantages, but we don't. So it's hardly a surprise that Kamala Harris is responding to her failure to attract sufficient support from young Black men by violating the spirit of America's prescriptions on the distribution of public goods to preferred constituencies based on their accidents of birth, Rothman said. Some of the proposals in this overture are innocuous. Others are slightly more sinister. Why is it, we might wonder, that Black males in particular are thought to be especially enthused, as compared with other demographics, by the federal legalization of recreational

marijuana use? Who is Harris's opportunity agenda for? It's not for those who believe opportunities should be universally accessible. It is not a plan to identify, much less break apart, whatever structural impediments presently prevent Black men from realizing their full potential. It's rhetorically exclusionary, and it is designed to appeal to those who believe some Americans deserve to be excluded, Rothman wrote. You'd think Kamala Harris might have learned a lesson from the failure of faddish concepts like equity to catch on. It seems all her team has internalized following this experience is that racial favoritism needs a savvier marketing strategy. All right, that is it for what the right is saying, which

brings us to what the left is saying. Many on the left support the tenets of the plan, arguing they would address real challenges in the black community. Some say Harris is smart to focus her outreach specifically on black men. Others note that black men were leaving the Democratic Party before Harris' candidacy. In Newsweek, Jason Nichols called the plan strong. For years now, sincere left-leaning Black male political analysts have been warning Democrats that they could lose enough Black men's votes to alter the outcome of a presidential election. As Democrats have reached out to many other demographics, advocating for them with rhetoric and policy, a small but growing number of Black men have felt left behind and ignored,

Nichols wrote. That's why on Monday morning, Vice President Harris charted a new course for Democrats by directly reaching out to Black men and addressing their economic concerns. The vice president has made supporting small business growth a key staple of her campaign. While Donald Trump touts his utterly failed Opportunity Zones program to African Americans, Harris plans to invest in black men realizing the American dream of innovation and ownership, Nichols said. To be extremely clear, if Vice President Harris loses this election, it will not fall upon the shoulders of Black men. African-American men trail only Black women in their loyalty to the Democratic Party. Still, Vice President Harris is working to earn Black men's votes by addressing their economic, social, and health care needs with her new plan.

The only concern is if it will reach the intended audience quickly enough to garner their enthusiasm. In The Root, Harris's former speechwriter Gavin Reynolds praised her new agenda for Black men. For the 32% of Black voters who are still looking to learn more about Vice President Kamala Harris, they learned two things about her today. She listens, and she keeps her word. Demonstrating her commitment to earning our votes, she released a comprehensive agenda outlining the ways in which she will help Black men get ahead and lead in their communities, Reynolds wrote. She knows that devastating diseases like prostate cancer and diabetes disproportionately affect Black men, who also face unique barriers to care. That's why her plan calls for capping drug costs,

because she believes nobody should have to choose between their groceries or their medicines. The vice president has long been on the front lines of the fight to expand access to capital for black men. I was in the room when she convened young men of color for some real talk about entrepreneurship last year, Reynolds added. Harris knows nobody should go to jail for smoking weed, although far too many black men have. Her plan calls for the legalization of recreational marijuana and for the creation of a legal

marijuana industry in which black men can benefit. On that issue, and so many others, justice will be delayed no longer. In The New Yorker, Jelani Cobb wrote about what the polls really say about Black men's support for Kamala Harris. Harris is doing better with Black male voters than Joe Biden was earlier this year. According to a recent Pew survey, 73% will vote or are leaning toward voting for her. Even in mid-July, before Biden dropped out of the race, Harris's favorability rating among Black voters in battleground states exceeded his by five points, Cobb said. However, a higher share of Black men than Black women identify as conservative. The declining number of Black male Democratic voters, like the party's diminishing appeal to

Latino and working-class white voters, may portend an ongoing realignment. Accordingly, the Harris campaign has been preparing a package of policy initiatives that relate to the issues—entrepreneurship, homeownership—that consistently emerge in focus groups with black male voters. But there is another dynamic that warrants mention. Trump's bombastic allure skews disproportionately male, and although young voters generally support Democrats, there is some evidence that young men may be a stealth asset for him in November, Cobb wrote. And Trump is more popular with Black men under the age of 50 than with any other segment of African Americans. All right, let's head over to Isaac for his take. All right, that is it for what the left and the right are saying, which brings us to my take.

So in politics, spokespeople are essentially propagandists, and it's pretty rare that I take their words at face value. So it's also pretty rare that I find myself in agreement with them. But my initial reaction to this announcement was similar to the one expressed by Stephen Chung, Trump's spokesperson. This reeked of desperation to me. All in all, Harris's agenda for Black men reads like a web page I could have stood up in a few hours of focused work. About half the space is dedicated to a greatest hits of Trump's most offensive comments about black people and immigrants, with some specious claims about his time in office, like that crime in black neighborhoods soared while Trump tried to cut funds for public safety. Much like a good deal of her agenda and Trump's, for whatever it's worth, the plan is low on

details and high on offerings. One million fully forgivable loans sounds great, as does $20,000 to every person who asks for it. But how she'll pay for it is unclear, and how the program will pass constitutional muster—you can't just hand out taxpayer dollars on the basis of race—is also unclear. A regulatory framework for cryptocurrency sounds very nice, but its impact on the value of digital currencies will depend wholly on what the regulatory framework actually is. Harris has already made promises like lower rent and ban on corporate price gouging,

which of course are things she and Biden would be doing right now if they could get Congress on board. Her proposal as part of the agenda for Black men to legalize marijuana at the federal level was perhaps most controversial. Some read it as insulting or even racist, advancing a stereotype about Black men and drug use. I actually don't think this part of her proposal is somehow offensive or really all that complicated. There is a very real and obvious disparity in how marijuana crimes are prosecuted

against Black people compared to people of all other races. Decriminalizing cannabis federally, as well as expunging non-violent marijuana-related offenses, seems like a perfectly good response to that disparity. Sweeping decriminalization is race blind, but also race conscious, which is a formula I prefer for addressing issues like this. On the other hand, I still have reservations about legalization. Despite or perhaps informed by my own history of cannabis use, I can see a lot of scenarios where making marijuana more readily available goes sideways, and I think we are already seeing those scenarios play out in some states that have legalized recreational marijuana. The more important points, though, might be that, one, Harris was partly responsible for Black men being imprisoned on marijuana charges in California, and two, Harris has no clear path or plan toward fulfilling such

a promise, at least not one she has articulated here. Throw in an awareness of Harris's lower support among Black men compared to Biden's in 2020, and it's easy to see this plan as a little desperate. That's not to say there isn't any merit in it. In fact, there are several things about this agenda that I support. Directionally, it aims to increase long-term wealth for Black Americans through business creation and career development. I'm entirely supportive of that, and as an entrepreneur myself, I can attest to the value and fulfillment of creating your own business. Her plan also takes aim at health disparities among the Black population, like prostate cancer and sickle cell disease, which are worthwhile causes. Other than providing those

entrepreneurial benefits through a racial gate, I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with those ideas. The best counterpoint to the argument that any of this indicates desperation is that Harris is simply playing the card she's been dealt. In the first few weeks after she announced her candidacy, all anyone talked about, including Trump, was how running a shortened campaign was a massive advantage. Harris caught Trump flat-footed, did not have to exist in the spotlight for a full year, and got all the benefits, read money, of Biden's campaign transferred to her directly. On the other hand, this is the downside of running an abbreviated campaign like the one Harris has run. She had much less time to build specific plans designed to turn out and attract specific voting

blocks. This plan might look desperate or late relative to our proximity to election day, but it's also an agenda aimed at a core constituency released just a couple months into her campaign. It's both timely and late, which is a rather remarkable feature of the abbreviated campaign she's had to run. Will it work? I have no idea. Among black men who I interact with socially or black writers whom I follow, the plan was received with a shrug. I don't expect it to get too many people off the couch and into the voting booth. But as we've said over and over, this race looks to be extraordinarily close, and any movement at all toward Harris is worth her time and effort.

We'll be right back after this quick break. Oh, that coffee smells good. Can you pass me the sugar when you're finished? Whoa, whoa, whoa, what are you doing? That's salt, not sugar. Let's get you another coffee. Feeling distracted? You're not alone. Many Canadians are finding it hard to focus with

mortgage payments on their minds. If you're struggling with your payments, speak to your bank. The earlier they understand your situation, the more options and relief measures could be available to you. Learn more at Canada.ca slash it pays to know. A message from the Government of Canada. From Searchlight Pictures comes A Real Pain, one of the most moving and funny films of the year.

Written and directed by Oscar-nominated Jesse Eisenberg and starring Eisenberg and Emmy Award winner Kieran Culkin, A Real Pain is a comedy about mismatched cousins who reunite for a tour through Poland to honor their beloved grandmother. The adventure takes a turn when the pair's old tensions resurface against the backdrop of their family history. A Real Pain was one of the buzziest titles at Sundance Film Festival this year, garnering rave reviews and acclaim from both critics and audiences alike. See A Real Pain only in theaters November 15th. Based on Charles Yu's award-winning book, Interior Chinatown

follows the story of Willis Wu, a background character trapped in a police procedural who dreams about a world beyond Chinatown. When he inadvertently becomes a witness to a crime, Willis begins to unravel a criminal web, his family's buried history, and what it feels like to be in the spotlight. Interior Chinatown is streaming November 19th, only on Disney Plus. All right, that is it for my take, which brings us to our reader questions today. This one's from Ellie in Oak Park, Illinois. Ellie said, thank you, Tangle Team, for all your incredible work. You're welcome. Lately, I've been hearing that Trump's physical well-being

has been deteriorating. I've personally noticed that his speech has become more garbled and he's hunching over more, leaning on the podium. Of course, I could be seeing selective images and clips, but I have to say, some of what I've seen has shocked me to Biden's catastrophic debate levels. He really doesn't look well.

Have you noticed this or has anyone done unbiased reporting on this? Okay, so many pundits have written about Trump aging or not performing well in live Q&As or debates compared to four, eight years ago. I'm not sure how many of them are unbiased. And honestly, these pieces are good. They're rightfully out there. With Biden out of the race, Trump would be the oldest president we've ever had. If reelected, he'd be 82 when he leaves office. I don't really think it's possible to give an unbiased look at Trump's aging. We all have grandparents or elderly family members whom we've watched age, and we are all

informed by those experiences. When I talk about Biden's very obvious slipping, I've often referenced the similar trajectory I've seen my family members take, and that informs some of my commentary. As always, you can view Trump's aging through a couple different perspectives. You can say that, of course, a 78-year-old will provide some moments that won't look good. Furthermore, Trump does a ton of media, providing no shortage of opportunities for a gaffe or poorly answered question to be edited to look as bad as possible. I just watched a 90-minute interview he did with the comedians from Flagrant, and while he had all his usual exaggerations, boasts, lies, insults, and rambling, he also stayed engaged for an hour and a half. I came away thinking he sounded pretty cogent, and I have a tough time imagining Biden getting through a similar interview. On the other hand, you can say that it's not just his worst moments that look bad. Indeed, there is no shortage of opinion pieces saying that his messages are becoming

more rambling and his appearance looking more frail. Trump's critics are calling out the grave concerns over Joe Biden's aging as a double standard, citing Trump's obfuscation of his medical record as an abnormal and alarming development. Personally, I think he definitely looks different than he did eight years ago. And after the eight years he's had, who wouldn't? I mean, he served a term as president. He survived an assassination attempt too, actually. He's under indictment in several federal cases, and he's been in the campaign spotlight constantly. He is showing reasonable and normal effects of a decade of aging. The big question to me is whether or not

you think he's deteriorating, which is always going to be subjective. If you want to make that call, I think the best thing you can do is just watch some of his 2016 debate against Clinton and some of his 2024 debate against Harris and decide for yourself. All right, that is it for your listener question today.

I'm going to pass it back to John for the rest of the pod, and I'll see you guys tomorrow. Peace. Thanks, Isaac. Here's your Under the Radar story for today, folks. On Wednesday, the Nebraska Supreme Court will rule on a lawsuit seeking to restore voting rights to thousands of state residents with felony records, a decision with major implications for the state's election. Earlier this year, Nebraska lawmakers passed a bill restoring the voting

rights of those convicted of felonies upon the completion of their sentences. But Republican Attorney General Mike Hilgers said the new law is unconstitutional. Hilgers' opinion prompted Republican Secretary of State Bob Evnan to order county election officials not to register those with felony convictions, which led the American Civil Liberties Union to sue to halt the order. Roughly 7,000 Nebraskans could be impacted by the state Supreme Court's ruling, many of whom reside in Nebraska's 2nd Congressional District, a swing district that casts its electoral vote independently from the rest of the state. The Associated Press has this story, and there's a link in today's episode description.

All right, next up is our numbers section. The percentage of Black male voters who supported Barack Obama in 2008 is 95%, according to NBC News polls of early and election day voters. The percentage of Black male voters who supported Obama in 2012 is 87%. The percentage of Black male voters who supported Obama in 2012 is 87%. The percentage of Black male voters who supported Hillary Clinton in 2016 is 82%. The percentage of Black male voters who supported Joe Biden in 2020 is 80%. The percentage of Black male voters who have a favorable view of Joe Biden is 55%, according to a September 2024 APNORC poll. The percentage of Black male voters

who have a favorable view of Harris is 68%. The percentage of Black male voters who have a favorable view of Harris is 68%. The percentage of Black male voters who have a favorable view of Trump is 18%. The percentage of Black male voters who think Harris would make a good president is 66%, according to a September 2024 AP-NORC poll. And the percentage of Black male voters who think Trump would make a good president is 21%. All right, and last but not least, our Have a Nice Day story. Two Massachusetts-based scientists, Dr. Victor Ambrose and Dr. Gary Rufkun, recently received the Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine for their discovery of microRNA. According to John Lorsk, director of the National Institute of General Medicine Sciences, their discovery opened up a whole new understanding of how diseases happen, which means that we have new possibilities for reversing them.

Their microRNA research is now being used for clinical trials of treatments for heart disease, cancer, and neurodegenerative disease. The New York Times has this story, and there's a link in today's episode description. All right, everybody, that is it for today's episode. As always, if you'd like to support our work, you can go to readtangle.com and sign up for a membership. And if you haven't already, you can also sign up for our premium podcast membership at tanglemedia.supercast.com.

We'll be right back here tomorrow. For Isaac and the rest of the crew, this is John Law signing off. Have a great day, y'all. Peace. Our podcast is written by me, Isaac Saul, and edited and engineered by Duke Thomas. Our script is edited by Ari Weitzman, Will Kabak, Bailey Saul, and Sean Brady. The logo for our podcast was made by Magdalena Bokova, who is also our social media manager.

The music for the podcast was produced by Diet75. And if you're looking for more from Tangle, please go check out our website at readtangle.com. That's readtangle.com.