Tangle - Marjorie Taylor Greene's resignation from Congress.

Starting point is 00:00:00 From executive producer Isaac Saul, this is Tangle. Good morning, good afternoon and good evening, and welcome to the Tangle podcast, a place we get views from across the political spectrum, some independent thinking, and a little bit of my take. I'm your host, Isaac Saul, and on today's episode, We're going to be talking about Marjorie Taylor Green, resigning from Congress, what it means for the future of the Republican Party, what the lessons learned are, and just like how quickly political fortunes can change. It is Tuesday, November 25th. I'm going to send it over to John to jump into today's main show. But before I do, a quick reminder that we will not be sending out a normal podcast or newsletter for the rest of the week. Our team is going to recharge and celebrate Thanksgiving.

Starting point is 00:00:58 but keep an eye out for on the YouTube channel tomorrow a special episode of Suspension of the Rules which we're going to be releasing some video from on our YouTube channel and of course if you're a podcast listener you'll get that right here in your feed. All right, I'm going to send the pot over to John and I'll be back for my take.

Starting point is 00:01:21 Thanks, Isaac, and welcome everybody. Here are your quick hits for today. First up, a federal judge dismissed the charge against former Federal Bureau of Investigation Director James Comey and New York Attorney General Leticia James, finding that Lindsey Halligan, the interim U.S. attorney in Virginia who brought the cases, was unlawfully appointed. The Justice Department said it will immediately appeal the decision. Number two, the Pentagon announced it is reviewing misconduct allegations against Senator Mark Kelly, the Democrat from Arizona, a former U.S. Navy captain, to determine

Starting point is 00:01:52 whether to recall him to active duty for court-martial proceedings or administrative measures. Kelly was one of six Democratic lawmakers who released video last week, calling on service members to defy illegal orders if they received them. Number three, the Supreme Court opted not to immediately act on the challenges to President Trump's executive order attempting to end birthright citizenship. However, the court may consider the cases at its private conference on Friday, December 5th. Number four, President Trump spoke separately with Chinese President Xi Jinping and Japanese Prime Minister Sanehakaichi amid escalating tensions between the two countries,

Starting point is 00:02:26 over a potential military conflict in Taiwan. Trump said he plans to visit China in April. And number five, the White House is reportedly circulating the draft of a plan to extend enhanced Affordable Care Act subsidies, which are due to expire at the end of 2025, for two more years. The proposal would also cap eligibility for credits at 700% of the federal poverty level and end zero premium plans for lower income recipients. Now to the news that has rattled Washington over the last couple of days, Firebrand Republican Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Green, announcing she will resign from her seat in January. The Georgia representative and longtime loyalist of President Trump has spent the last several weeks in a public feud with the president over the Epstein files, health care, and more.

Starting point is 00:03:22 On Friday, Representative Marjorie Taylor Green, the Republican from Georgia, that she will resign from Congress on January 5, 26, citing the Republican Party's handling of the government shutdown and her public falling out with President Donald Trump. Green, who was elected to Congress in 2020 as a pro-Trump candidate, recently clashed with the president over foreign policy, health care, and the release of files related to convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein. In a statement on Friday, Green wrote, I have too much self-respect and dignity, love my family way too much, and do not want

Starting point is 00:03:53 my sweet district to have to endure a hurtful and hateful primary against me by the president we all thought for, only to fight and win my election while Republicans likely lose the midterms, and in turn, be expected to defend the president against impeachment after he hatefully dumped tens of millions of dollars against me and tried to destroy me. I refuse to be a battered wife, hoping it all goes away and gets better. For context, after winning her election in 2020, Green quickly gained notoriety for vocal criticism of mask and vaccine mandates during the COVID-19 pandemic and for her associations with conspiracy movements like QAnon. She was removed from her committee assignments during her

Starting point is 00:04:31 first term for prior conspiratorial remarks, but her national profile grew as she challenged Biden administration policies and backed President Trump's reelection effort. However, Green and Trump's relationship has frayed in recent months, which Trump says began in May after he dissuaded her from running for Senate based on poor polling numbers, Green disputes that claim. More recently, the congresswoman broke from Republicans and the president by calling Israel's war in Gaza a genocide, criticizing GOP leadership for not planning to extend enhanced Affordable Care Act tax credits and questioning the Trump administration's mass deportation agenda. She was also one of four House Republicans to vote with Democrats to force a vote on the release of the Epstein files,

Starting point is 00:05:12 a measure that eventually passed both chambers of Congress. On November 14th, President Trump wrote on Truth Social that he was withdrawing his support for Green, calling her a ranting lunatic and encouraging Republicans to run a primary challenge against her, Green responded that she was being attacked over her advocacy for Epstein's victims, but said, I forgive Trump, and I will pray for him to return to his original MAGA promises. Following Green's resignation announcement, Trump called her a traitor, but added, I will always appreciate Marjorie. He further softened his tone on Saturday, telling NBC News that he would love to see her return to politics eventually.

Starting point is 00:05:47 Separately, Green rejected the notion that she was resigning from Congress to position herself for a presidential run in 2028, writing on X, I'm not motivated by power and titles. The political industrial complex has destroyed our country and will never allow someone like me or you to rise to power and actually solve the crises that plague all of us. Today, we'll explore Green's resignation and her fallout with Trump with views from the right and the left, and then Isaac's tape. We'll be right back after this quick break. All right. First of all let's start with what the right is saying. The right is mixed on Green's departure, though many say Trump is right to disavow her. Some argue Green was a good representative, but resigning is the right choice. Others say the left is hypocritically embracing Green, now that it's.

Starting point is 00:06:47 is politically convenient. In the Washington examiner, Zachary Faria wrote, Trump is right. GOP should dump MTG. Green has spent the past few months attacking the GOP Speaker of the House on liberal media platforms, trying to help congressional Democrats

Starting point is 00:07:03 keep Obamacare float and obsessing over Israel. In response to Trump calling her a traitor, Green implied that Trump was a traitor serving Israel's interests, Faria said. None of this is surprising. Green has been a wacky conspiracy theorist her entire political career. Republicans should have nipped her career in the bud when she was first

Starting point is 00:07:21 elected, despite pushing Q&N on conspiracy theories and 9-11 truthorism. Green claimed that the 2018 California wildfires were caused by space lasers controlled by Rothschild Investment Group businesses. Green contributes nothing of value to the Republican Party. Her fundraising can be replaced by any other GOP firebrand. She is not some legislative giant. She doesn't move votes, as evidenced by the poll showing that she would lose in embarrassing fashion if she ran for Senate against Democratic incumbent John Ossoff, Farrier wrote. Before, she was an obnoxious provocateur who Democrats tried to tie to normal Republicans as a political anchor. Now, she is no different than any other Democratic attack dog, attacking Trump and the GOP, protecting Obamacare and ranting

Starting point is 00:08:04 about Israel. In PJ Media, Stephen Cruiser said Green is keeping it weird until the end. Some of Green's farewell messages seemed odd to me. There was a big pity poor me vibe to it. She even likened herself to a battered wife at one point. Green has never shied away from melodrama, Cruiser said. This is a little bit reminiscent of Jeff Lake's departure from the Senate several years ago. He saw the writing on the wall and bugged out very early because he knew he wasn't going to survive the primaries. That was way back before Trump had any kingmaking juice at all. I've rather enjoyed most of Marjorie Taylor Green's congressional career. She's a firebrand. who didn't avoid confrontation, and she was fiercely loyal to Trump for a long time.

Starting point is 00:08:47 These last few months have gotten out of control. If she had decided to remain in office and was able to win again, I fear that she would have continued to go the never-Trump route. That would have been more of a branding ploy than anything having to do with deep convictions, Cruiser said. It's going to be quieter in the House of Representatives without MTG roaming around. The Trump haters will be feasting on this news for a while. Expect a lot of mainstream media drivel about MAGA being shattered.

Starting point is 00:09:12 In The Spectator, Douglas Murray asked if Green will become an anti-Trump resistance hero. It is always interesting to see who the American left claims are the leaders of the American right. There was a time during President Trump's first term when Steve Bannon fit the rule. Around the same time, there was a less savory figure called Richard Spencer. The self-professed white nationalist was portrayed as being close to the center of power on the right, Murray said. The latest person to enjoy a similar transmogrification is Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Green. Until recently, you would have been hard pushed to find a kind word said on the American left about the blonde maga congresswoman.

Starting point is 00:09:49 Now, she's suddenly acceptable. She's on all the left-wing talk shows. CNN has interviewed MTG, as she is sometimes known, sympathetically, and listened with certainty as she decried the use of toxic rhetoric in politics. The fact that toxic was practically MTG's only brand until yesterday would ordinarily lead to an outburst of skepticism on the U.S. left, Murray wrote. But MTG has become acceptable because of one thing and one thing only, which is that the American left sees that she might have just become useful in their war to bring down President Trump.

Starting point is 00:10:35 All right, that is it for what the right is saying, which brings us to what the left is saying. Many on the left suggest Trump won the power struggle with Green, but see the saga as a warning for the rest of his term. Some say Green exposed one of Trump's key political weaknesses. Others argue against mainstream acceptance of Green. In CNN, Stephen Collinson said, Green's exit shows Trump still rules the GOP, but it's a warning he shouldn't ignore. Whether Green's future lies in a conservative media role or in a political campaign, she took positions on social security, health care, immigration, foreign policy, and the national debt that sound very much like a manifesto for a back-to-basic shift

Starting point is 00:11:12 for the MAGA movement when Trump has left the scene, Collins and wrote. Green's fallout with Trump has created so much interest because it's a fracture between two of MAGA's top personalities, but also because it seems to hint at deeper rifts within the movement itself, and since she was once an enthusiastic player in the toxic politics pioneered by Trump, Green's turn may hint at a wider fatigue for the drama and bile that Trump whips up every day. It was never realistic that a lone member of Congress, even one as astute in cultivating publicity and controversy as Green, would prevail in a political test of wills with the president, let alone one who transformed the GOP in his image, creating his own populist movement and enjoys an exceptional bond with the grassroots of his party, Collinson said. But Green argues that the president has departed from the values that took him into office and that validated his appeal. That's a threat to Trump's authority at a difficult political moment, and at a time when the power of second-turned,

Starting point is 00:12:06 term presidents often starts to ebb. In the New Republic, Greg Sargent argued Marjorie Taylor Green just wrecked the cult of Trump. Trump depicted Green as a traitor for supporting the discharge petition compelling a House vote on the release of the files, Sergeant wrote. What Trump understands better than anyone alive is that it's the perception of his mastery over fellow Republicans that matters above all to the success of his project. Trump's eruption at Green was a last-ditch effort to warn other Republicans that if they dare join her, they'd face his wrath. What Trump feared most was the spectacle of Republicans not doing his express bidding. What is surely most galling to Trump in the video is green straightforward declaration that

Starting point is 00:12:46 Trump was unable to control the course of events, Sergeant said. Obviously, Trump's grip on the Republican Party is quite formidable, but that grip is plainly loosening on many fronts. Trump has failed to bully Indiana Republicans into joining his corrupt gerrymandering scheme. More than once a handful of GOP senators have joined Democrats to vote to undo some of his tariffs. What we're learning now, above all, is that Trump appears to wield absolute mastery over the GOP until he doesn't, and can no longer sustain that illusion. In MS Now, Liz Lenz wrote, you don't have to forgive Marjorie Taylor Green. A politician apologizing is rarer than Haley's comet, but that hasn't been the only part of the

Starting point is 00:13:26 Green Redemption Tour. She's become a symbol of the break within the Republican Party. She's disagreed with the president's policies on Israel, calling the war in Gaza genocide. She criticized the tariffs and is attacking some of Trump's more egregious ideas, Len said. But Green is no great hero. She's no martyr sacrificing her well-being for the country, and it's time to take her down from the wooden cross she made for herself. Recall that Green rose to prominence in 2019 by attacking the victims of a school shooting

Starting point is 00:13:55 in Parkland, Florida. Green screamed at former President Joe Biden during the State of the Union address. She spread anti-Semitic and Islamophobic conspiracies. She expressed support for executing Democratic members of Congress, including Nancy Pelosi. She pushed conspiracy theories about the 2020 election, Lenz wrote. Each post, each hateful rant, each violent word gleefully typed, shared and liked and raged against, is the foundation of Green's entire career. It's the tsunami of sewage that swept her into Congress and Trump into the White House.

Starting point is 00:14:27 All right, let's head over to Isaac for his take. All right, that is it for the left and the writer's saying, which brings us to my take. Let's turn the clock back six months to May. Marjorie Taylor Green chairs the House delivering on a government efficiency Doge subcommittee and is pushing to defund PBS and NPR. She's using her purge at Doge hearings to criticize trans women participating in sports. She's further amplifying herself on X, raising awareness about the Epstein files and demanding more transparency from the DOJ.

Starting point is 00:15:10 A couple hundred miles north, Zohran Mamdani is gaining traction in the Democratic primary for mayor in New York City. He's running on free public transit, rent freezes, and taxing the wealthy. The Times of Israel has just published a story about him declaring himself an anti-Zionist. The punditry still considers him a long shot, but he's picking up some major endorsements, including one from the progressive magazine, The Nation. Now, imagine if I told you that, six months from then, Green would be resigning from Congress, called a traitor by Donald Trump,

Starting point is 00:15:42 and doing TV hits on CNN and The View criticizing Republicans. Meanwhile, Mamdani would be the incoming mayor of New York City and be taking friendly meetings with Trump at the White House. I think, probably, you would have worried about my mental health. Yet, here we are. The old adage stays true. A week is a long time in politics. A month is an eternity. And six months, well, you truly can't imagine how much can happen over a period of time like that. The great and immediate irony of all

Starting point is 00:16:12 of this is that the actions precipitating Green's exit are, perhaps, the least offensive of her entire career. This is the same politician who liked a post calling for Nancy Pelosi to be shot in the head, suggested Pelosi deserves execution for treason, showed photos of a nude Hunter Biden during a congressional hearing, push-stolen election conspiracy theories, claimed Hurricane Helene was driven by a government-steered weather modification program to target Republican voters

Starting point is 00:16:38 and filed to impeach Joe Biden on the first full day of his presidency. Through all of that, Republicans were happy to hold their noses and keep the seat. Now, Green's career-ending transgressions are sticking to a promise she made demanding the Epstein files and criticizing her party

Starting point is 00:16:55 for not addressing affordability. These crimes were apparently so great that she is now being forced out. The speed of Green's departure after she began challenging party leadership, to me, screams of a broken political body. 2023 produced a record wave of retirements driven in part by the rancor

Starting point is 00:17:13 and recriminations members were experiencing throughout Congress. Earlier this year, Maine's Blue Dog Democrat, Representative Jared Golden, announced he would not seek re-election. He cited the insolity and plain nastiness of Americans and our political leaders as well as threats against him

Starting point is 00:17:29 his family. Now, as Green also heads for the exits, Punchball News founder Jake Sherman is reporting that this may just be the beginning, that a wave of Republicans are about to leave behind her. Green confirmed that reporting on X, suggesting that Trump's failure to legislate on issues she and the MAGA movement care about during the administration's fertile first six to nine months has caused Republicans to miss their window, allowing campaign season to creep in and slam the door on genuine reforms. All the while, Green was a symbol. of that deterioration of civility. At the same time as MTG Starr was on the rise

Starting point is 00:18:04 and the right moderates like Golden had already been fleeing from Congress for a decade, citing death threats, partisan gridlock, and the thoroughly unenjoyable experience of doing the job. Members from separate parties can hardly conduct a hearing anymore without shouting matches breaking out.

Starting point is 00:18:19 But now, even committed partisans like Green are jumping ship, apparently with company, for relatively minor breaches on the party line. Green, after all, still voted. 98% in line with the Trump administration. If I wanted to squint and seek some optimism, I could. In some respects, Green's story is an appealing version of how Congress works. Someone gets elected, comes in to serve a few terms, and leaves. As unconventional and conspiratorial and controversial as Green has been, she's also ironically somewhat in the mold of the founder's

Starting point is 00:18:51 vision for a U.S. representative. An ordinary, apolitical person who goes to serve then returns to normal life rather than becoming a career politician. But you have to squint. The larger truth is that until a few months ago, Green's time in office was defined by obsessive loyalty to the president, social media brawls, and a general aggression toward anyone with a D next to their name. She's now leaving because the president said he would primary her, an experience she knows will be hell, and she doesn't want to stick around to be treated like a villain by the very movement she ran to represent. That's not to say I'm surprised by Trump unendorsing her. Republicans have a tough midterm election coming up next year, and they can't have defectors like Green out in the media

Starting point is 00:19:32 trashing the party and attacking its leader. She is a wildcard and a headache for the Trump-led GOP, and she isn't particularly valuable as a legislator or a fundraiser. In short, the political upside for Republicans and Trump are standing by her has run out. Even though the speed of that falling out is a shock that Trump and Republicans are rejecting her now isn't surprising. In the immediate term, the question becomes who will replace her? And what does it mean for other Republicans in Congress watching all this unfold? Odds are good, it'll be another loyal foot soldier for the White House. It's hard to imagine anyone running for and winning green seat in deep red Georgia

Starting point is 00:20:09 that doesn't get the stamp of approval from the president. That means in a nation where most of our congressional seats are already gerrymandered into non-competitiveness, even the incoming members are facing a second test of party loyalty. They must maintain the approval of the president or face a challenge from the party itself. We'll be right back after this quick break. All right, and before we get out of here, yesterday our staff answered a question we occasionally get from readers,

Starting point is 00:20:46 which is what are some charitable organizations that we support or donate to? Today, we're sharing some answers from more. members of the Tangle team outside of our editorial group, so I'm going to pass it over to them. Thanks, Isaac. Our customer experience specialist Candida Hall is traveling today to spend some time with family for the holidays, so I'm going to read the charity that she shared. We often hear about the housing crisis happening in cities, but less so in rural areas. So when we moved back to Appalachia last year, I immediately joined the Unity Housing Team. Our mission is to provide medical respite for those who need medical assistance, but not necessarily a hospital bed, and have

Starting point is 00:21:21 nowhere else to go. We're currently raising funds to open our own campus with a reliable source of food, shelter, and transportation while people transition into permanent housing. In the meantime, we've partnered with Eastern Tennessee State University to put people who would otherwise be on the street in hotels with essential items and a game plan. And I'm executive producer John Law, and this is the organization I wish to share. The ability to have a hot meal and feel safe is often taken for granted, and Foco Cafe, the first non-profit restaurant in Fort Collins, Colorado, provides just that. They offer a pay-what-you-can model that doesn't turn anyone away, featuring a donation box instead of a cash register, and the food is both delicious and nourishing. The anonymity allows people of all financial backgrounds to gather together,

Starting point is 00:22:06 enjoy a meal, and socialize with others from the community, free from judgment. It's been a really nice way for me to get to know others around here and help make a difference on a local level. in Gorman, and I'm an associate producer at Tangle. My favorite charity is the Royal Society for the Protection of Birds, which is a non-profit based in the United Kingdom, working worldwide on saving special natural locations, protecting birds, and advocating for laws to protect nature. By chance, I found one of their nature reserves online when I first moved to the UK a few years ago, decided to go there, and fell in love with the organization and burning. It saves species like the red kites, protected populations of golden eagles, and reintroduced beavers at the UK. Once a month, I go out for bird photography, all because of a single nature reserve

Starting point is 00:22:51 I found by chance. All right. Next up is our numbers section. The percentage of the vote Marjorie Taylor Green received in the primary runoff election for the Republican nomination for Georgia District 14 in 2020 was 57.1%. The number of Republican candidates in the primary race was 9. The percentage of vote green received in the general election for Georgia District 14 in 2020 was 74.7%. The percentage of the vote green received in her re-election victory in 2024 was 64.4%. The population of Georgia District 14 is 796,194. According to census reporter, the population of Georgia District 14 is 796,193. According to a November 25,125,194,193, according to a November 25,

Starting point is 00:23:45 UGov poll, 20% of U.S. adults say they have a favorable view of Green, while 51% say they have an unfavorable view. And the number of committees that Representative Green sits on is three. The House Committee on Oversight and Accountability, the House Committee on Homeland Security, and the House Select Subcommittee on the Coronavirus Pandemic. And last but not least, our Have a Nice Day section. Sports fans around the world are already excited for next summer's World Cup, which will pit top national teams against each other in the tournament hosted by the United States,

Starting point is 00:24:19 Canada, and Mexico. The field will also feature some newcomers, which include Curacao, which recently became the smallest nation by population ever to qualify for the World Cup. Curacao is an autonomous territory in the Caribbean, within the Kingdom of the Netherlands, with a population of just over 156,000. The squad stamped its ticket with a zero-zero-draw in Jamaica on November 18th that secured a top finish in a four-team group of the qualifying round. The Associated Press has this story, and there's a link in today's episode description.

Starting point is 00:24:50 All right, everybody, that is it for today's episode. As always, if you'd like to support our work, please go to retangle.com, where you can sign them for a newsletter membership, podcast membership, or a bundled membership that gets you a discount on both. And right now, through Monday, we are running our 30% off Black Friday sale. This is the deepest discount we've ever offered on our products. And folks, it's a perfect time to sign up. It's a great gift to give to yourself, family, friends, and have something to be.

Starting point is 00:25:15 talk about and share some common ground on with your community. Isaac Ari and Camille will be here with a special suspension of the rules podcast tomorrow, and I will return on Monday. For the rest of the crew, this is John Law signing off, wishing you all a wonderful and happy Thanksgiving, and hope you get some peaceful and refreshing time to yourself or with family. Peace. Our executive editor and founder is me. Isaac Saul, and our executive producer is John Wall.

Starting point is 00:25:42 Today's episode was edited and engineered by Dewey Thomas. Our editorial staff is led by managing editor Ari Weitzman with senior editor Will Kback and associate editors Hunter Casperson, Audrey Moorhead, Bailey Saw, Lindsay Canuth, and Kendall White. Music for the podcast was produced by Diet 75. To learn more about Tangle and to sign up for a membership, please visit our website at reetangle.com. Thank you.

Tangle - Marjorie Taylor Greene's resignation from Congress.

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