Tangle - Michael Morell's testimony.

Starting point is 00:00:00 Based on Charles Yu's award-winning book, Interior Chinatown follows the story of Willis Wu, a background character trapped in a police procedural who dreams about a world beyond Chinatown. When he inadvertently becomes a witness to a crime, Willis begins to unravel a criminal web, his family's buried history, and what it feels like to be in the spotlight. Interior Chinatown is streaming November 19th, only on Disney+. The flu remains a serious disease. Last season, over 102,000 influenza cases have been reported across Canada, which is Chinatown is streaming November 19th, only on Disney+. yourself from the flu. It's the first cell-based flu vaccine authorized in Canada for ages six months and older, and it may be available for free in your province. Side effects and allergic reactions can occur, and 100% protection is not guaranteed. Learn more at flucellvax.ca.

Starting point is 00:01:00 From executive producer Isaac Saul, this is Tangle. Good morning, good afternoon, and good evening, and welcome to the Tangle podcast, a place we get views from across the political spectrum. Some independent thinking without all that hysterical nonsense you find everywhere else. I'm your host, Isaac Saul, and on today's episode, we're going to be talking about Mike Morrell, the former deputy director of the CIA, who is making some news this week for his testimony to Congress. Before we jump in, though, as always, we'll start off with some quick hits. with some quick hits. First up, Republicans in the House successfully passed a bill that pairs a debt ceiling hike with deep spending cuts. The bill passed by a 217 to 215 vote. Number two, writer E. Jean Carroll testified in a Manhattan court that former President Trump raped her in the mid-1990s.

Starting point is 00:02:06 Trump has accused her of lying and denied the event ever happened. Number three, former Arkansas Governor Asa Hutchinson formally announced his campaign for president. Number four, Disney said it is suing Florida Governor Ron DeSantis, saying the state's actions against it amounted to a targeted campaign of government retaliation. Number five, Montana's House cited decorum rules and voted 68 to 32 to expel its first openly transgender legislator, Zoe Zephyr, a Democrat, over her rebuke of a ban on gender-affirming care for children. Well, new bombshell testimony this morning from former acting CIA director Mike Morrell, revealing that less than a month before the presidential election, then senior Biden campaign adviser and now secretary of state Anthony Bl Blinken, reached out to Morell asking to organize 50 current and past intelligence officials to sign on to a public statement which claimed that the Hunter Biden laptop was Russian disinformation.

Starting point is 00:03:24 Jim Jordan, the Republican from Ohio and the chairman of the House Judiciary Committee, sent a letter to Secretary of State Antony Blinken demanding more answers about the public letter signed by 51 intelligence operatives who dismissed the Hunter Biden laptop story as likely Russian disinformation. The letter was published by Politico after the New York Post had reported on a laptop purportedly belonging to Hunter Biden. Executives at Twitter and Facebook decided to censor or limit sharing of the New York Post story over fears that it was part of a foreign influence campaign into the election. The inner workings of that decision to temporarily throttle the story about Hunter Biden's laptop were revealed in the Twitter files. Days after the originally

Starting point is 00:04:05 censored story had been uncensored, 51 intelligence officials signed an open letter insinuating that the post story could be Russian disinformation. Biden then cited that letter to deflect criticism of his son in a presidential debate, and some social media outlets took action to suppress sharing of the story over concerns that it was sourced by hacked materials or part of foreign interference. Now, Representative Jim Jordan is citing the testimony of Mike Morrell, a former deputy director at the CIA under President Barack Obama and one of the signatories of the letter. Morrell reportedly told the House Judiciary Committee in sworn testimony that Blinken had personally reached out to him

Starting point is 00:04:45 about the Hunter Biden story and was the impetus for the letter's release. At the time, Blinken was a senior advisor to the Biden campaign. We're examining the origins of the infamous public statement signed by 51 former intelligence officials that falsely discredited a New York Post story regarding Hunter Biden's laptop as supposed Russian disinformation, Jordan said. According to Jordan, Morrell's testimony indicated that the call from Blinken eventually led to the issuance of the public statement. In his letter, Jordan shared the following transcript of the testimony. Jim Jordan asked, but prior to Secretary Blinken's call, you did not have any intent to write this statement. I did not, Morell said. Jordan said, okay, so this call triggered. It did. Yes, Morell says. That intent

Starting point is 00:05:31 in you? Yes, absolutely, Morell says. What was the intent of the statement, Jordan asked. Morell replied, there were two intents. One intent was to share our concern with the American people that the Russians were playing on this issue. And two, it was to help Vice President Biden. You wanted to help the vice president. Why, Jordan asked. Because I wanted him to win the election, Morell said. You wanted him to win. That's why. Yes, sir, Morell said. Based on Morell's public testimony, it is apparent that the Biden campaign played an active role in the origins of the public statement, Jordan said, which had the effect of helping to suppress the Hunter Biden story and preventing American citizens from making a fully informed decision during the 2020 presidential election.

Starting point is 00:06:14 White House spokesperson Ian Sams accused Jordan of a highly misleading leak, saying the fuller transcript reveals a different story. Sams highlighted a different part of the interview where the following exchange took place. When he called you, did he direct, suggest, or insinuate in any way that you should write a letter or statement on this topic, someone on the House Judiciary Committee asked. Morell replied, my memory is that he did not. My memory is that he asked me what I thought. We've covered the Hunter Biden laptop story several times in Tangle. You can find our previous coverage with links in today's episode description, as well as coverage of the Twitter files. Today, though, we're going to take a look at some reactions to this story from the right

Starting point is 00:06:53 and the left, and then my take. First off, let's start with what the right is saying. Many on the right say this story is scandalous and insist on an investigation. Some argue that this is why Americans don't trust their institutions and why they're right not to. Others say this story is just the tip of the iceberg. The New York Post editorial board said Biden's campaign prompted former CIA director Mike Morrell to help them by falsely claiming the emails the Post published were Russian disinformation. In private sworn testimony, Morrell said Blinken was the senior campaign official who reached out to him on or before October 17th, 2020, three days after the Post published an email from the laptop suggesting Hunter had introduced his Ukrainian business partner to his father, then Vice President Biden, the board wrote.

Starting point is 00:07:55 Morrell, identified as a potential CIA director under Biden, said he organized the letter to help Vice President Biden because I wanted him to win the election. organized the letter to help Vice President Biden because I wanted him to win the election. Morrell had no intent of writing any statement exonerating Biden before the call, but said the call triggered that intent in him. Blinken sent Morrell a USA Today article claiming Hunter's laptop was part of a disinformation campaign, and Morrell said he did a little bit of research and then reached out to another former CIA officer to compile the letter. and then reached out to another former CIA officer to compile the letter. Morell gathered signatures from 51 intelligence officials and testified that the Biden campaign wanted the statement to go to a particular reporter at the Washington Post, though in the end it went to Politico. The Wall Street Journal editorial board said this is why public trust in American institutions, including

Starting point is 00:08:41 the press, is in free fall. The letter served its political purpose of giving the media and Joe Biden the opening to dismiss the New York Post laptop scoop as Russian disinformation. But it turns out the Biden campaign was behind it. The letter says Murrell also explained that the Biden campaign helped to strategize about the public release of the statement, and his goal was to share our concern with the American people and help Vice President Biden. Mr. Morrell told the committee that following the debate, Biden campaign chair and now senior White House aide Steve Ruschetti called to thank him for the statement, the board wrote. No doubt, the Biden campaign had in essence generated its own disinformation, marshalling the authority of supposedly nonpartisan intelligence veterans

Starting point is 00:09:25 to discredit a story that was accurate about laptop emails that were authentic. In The Federalist, Margo Cleveland said this was just the beginning. Blinken forwarding an article claiming the FBI was investigating the laptop as a potential disinformation campaign is hugely significant because we know the FBI was doing no such thing, she said. The FBI knew both that the laptop was authentic and that Jalen Paul Mack Isaac had possession of the hard drive, just as the New York Post had reported, albeit without identifying the computer store owner by name. For those who lived through the Russia collusion hoax, it was the USA Today article and the presidential campaign's use of Russia to deflect

Starting point is 00:10:05 attention from the Biden scandal that bore the classic earmarks of an information operation, one that mimicked Hillary Clinton's ploy four years prior, Cleveland said. Given the similarities between the two Russia hoaxes, it seemed likely the Biden campaign worked with the press to push the Russian disinformation narrative. All right, that is it for what the right is saying, which brings us to what the left is saying. Many on the left argue that the story is less than the GOP is making it out to be. Some point to the full context of the testimony, GOP is making it out to be. Some point to the full context of the testimony, arguing that it is not as clear-cut as conservatives are making it. Others say this story is important, and the media is not giving it the coverage that it should. In the Washington Post, Aaron Blake said the GOP's

Starting point is 00:10:56 latest laptop theory is less than meets the eye. As before, though, the evidence isn't as compelling as advertised, he wrote. But the letter omitted key context, such as when Morrell asked whether Blinken had directed, suggested, or insinuated that he should write such a statement, and replied, my memory is that he did not. Also, the Republicans claim doesn't really comport with the timeline insofar as this is about social media suppression. The statement from 51 intelligence officials came five days after the initial story, but Twitter and Facebook had begun restricting the story shortly after it was published. Twitter actually apologized for its decision and said it had stopped blocking links to the story and documents by October 16th, Blake said. In testimony to Jordan's committee in February,

Starting point is 00:11:40 former Twitter chief legal officer Vijay Agaddi said Twitter changed its policy within 24 hours and admitted its initial reaction was wrong. This policy revision immediately allowed people to tweet the original article with the embedded source materials. The statement was also more nuanced than the media or the Biden campaign insisted, allowing that the contents of the laptop could be genuine. Also in the Washington Post, Philip Bump said that Senator Ron Johnson, the Republican from Wisconsin, was taking the Hunter Biden laptop whataboutism to new heights. Johnson has been on the excited but wrong side of identifying those responsible for the Capitol riot, coronavirus vaccines, and voter fraud, among other things, Bump said.

Starting point is 00:12:22 Now he's doing it again again by asserting that this letter was more electorally influential than any foreign interference. This assertion is ridiculous. It is also revealing. There's no evidence that the campaign asked Morrell to write any such letter. In fact, he denied during his interview that he had been asked to do so. But his assertion isn't that Morrell was asked to develop the response. It's that this letter was a level of interference surpassing what foreign actors might do to influence voting. This is not defensible. The letter Morrell helped Kraft did serve as a point of validation for some people, including Biden. But the argument it presented was already established, and the story

Starting point is 00:13:00 it hoped to neuter was already in the conversation. Data shows the WikiLeaks releases, which were foreign interference, got a lot more attention, and Clinton's 2016 loss was narrow enough that lots of things might have been identified as proximate causes. You can't credibly argue the laptop letter is the reason for Trump's 7 million ballot popular vote loss. Based on Charles Yu's award-winning book, Interior Chinatown follows the story of Willis Wu, a background character trapped in a police procedural who dreams about a world beyond Chinatown. When he inadvertently becomes a witness to a crime,

Starting point is 00:13:36 Willis begins to unravel a criminal web, his family's buried history, and what it feels like to be in the spotlight. Interior Chinatown is streaming November 19th, only on Disney+. The flu remains a serious disease. Last season, over 102,000 influenza cases have been reported across Canada, which is nearly double the historic average of 52,000 cases. What can you do this flu season?

Starting point is 00:13:58 Talk to your pharmacist or doctor about getting a flu shot. Consider FluCellVax Quad and help protect yourself from the flu. It's the first cell-based flu vaccine authorized in Canada for ages six months and older, and it may be available for free in your province. Side effects and allergic reactions can occur, and 100% protection is not guaranteed. Learn more at FluCellVax.ca. In racket news, Matt Taibbi took a different angle, criticizing the news blackout of this story. By any marker, this is an enormous story, Taibbi said. If we go by the usual measuring stick of

Starting point is 00:14:33 American scandal, the Watergate story, this potentially meets or exceeds that on almost every level. Does it reach into the current White House? Check. Was it a craven attempt to subvert the electoral process? Check again. it a craven attempt to subvert the electoral process? Check again. Did a presidential candidate engineer a massive public deception? Yes, resoundingly. Did it involve intelligence agencies? Yes, and these weren't amateurs like Nixon's plumbers. These were 50 of the most powerful people in the intelligence world, including five former heads or acting heads of agency in Morell, John Brennan, Leon Panetta, Michael Hayden, and John McLaughlin, conspiring to meddle in domestic politics on a grand scale, he wrote.

Starting point is 00:15:11 Yet, outside of conservative outlets who naturally are eating it up, there were exactly two serious stories done about this on the national level in an appropriate response time. All right, that is it for the right and the left are saying, which brings us to my take. Over the last eight years, Americans have been subjected to some of the most combative, confusing, and convoluted political intrigues in our country's history. Trump vs. Hillary, the WikiLeaks dumps, the Comey FBI investigation into Hillary's emails, Russia's disinformation campaigns, the Russia-Trump investigation, the Mueller report, the investigation into the investigation, the investigation into the investigation of the investigation, the Hunter Biden laptop, the Trump vs. Biden race, the claims of election investigation, the Hunter Biden laptop, the Trump versus Biden race, the claims of election

Starting point is 00:16:05 fraud, the debunking of election fraud claims, January 6th, the investigations into January 6th, the investigations into the investigations of January 6th, the Twitter files, the investigation of the Twitter files, and then all of the punditry, linking, comparing, contrasting, and then melding these events. It's enough to make head spin even among the most dedicated news consumers, and these are just the major headlines. One benefit of this inundation of news, if there is one, is that we have gotten a much clearer and more definitive look at how the sausage is made in big league American politics. And the Michael Morrell story is a fitting addition to that picture. When Politico published the letter from 51 intelligence

Starting point is 00:16:45 officials insinuating the Hunter Biden laptop story had the hallmarks of Russian disinformation, I was skeptical. Much like Glenn Greenwald and Matt Taibbi and other independent journalists of the world, I'm proud to say the letter gave me an icky feeling, setting off all sorts of alarm bells. The letter amounted to a bunch of the most powerful figures in the intelligence world unifying around a single message in a campaign season when they had a very clear intent and very little hard evidence. Aaron Blake, under what the left is saying, is right that the letter never said unequivocally that the Hunter Biden laptop story was Russian disinformation, only that it had hallmarks of it and that it could still be genuine.

Starting point is 00:17:24 But the usefulness of the letter to the left-leaning press and the Biden campaign is undeniable. Politico's headline still reads, Hunter Biden's story is Russian disinfo, dozens of former intel officials say. On the debate stage, Joe Biden said, look, there are 50 former national intelligence folks who said that what President Trump is accusing me of is a Russian plan. They have said that this has all the characteristics for five former heads of the CIA. Both parties say that what he's saying is a bunch of garbage, that the Biden campaign had actually contacted the former deputy director of the CIA who served under Obama, wanted Biden to win and had an opportunity to lead the CIA in a Biden administration, is a scandalous revelation. That the same spy chief conceded that this contact was the impetus for the letter is a huge story. It is not Watergate or akin to it, Taibbi's assertion

Starting point is 00:18:17 made me scoff, but Taibbi is absolutely right that it is an absurdity for it to be so ignored by the mainstream press. Just like Taibbi, I could only find two, two opinion pieces about it from left-leaning writers, both at the Washington Post. It's not as if Michael Morrell is some unknown figure. He has published several opinion pieces in the New York Times, yet they don't have a single story up about him in the past month. How could that be? Did this letter throw the election to Biden? No. Would Biden have won without it? Almost certainly. Did we have reason to think Russia might be interfering? Of course. In fact, even the Trump administration was warning about Russian interference in 2020. Was the letter tied to the throttling of the story on Twitter? Definitely not. As Blake rightly noted, the timeline is

Starting point is 00:19:05 simply incompatible with that implication. The story had been censored and then uncensored in the days before the letter even came out, though the Post's Twitter account was locked for a couple weeks, and I suppose you can make a weak argument the letter contributed to that. And yet, the whole thing still stinks to high heaven. Much like the workings of the Trump-Russia story, there were a lot of connections at play between the Democratic campaign, the press, and spy agencies that we didn't fully understand at the time. When Trump hammers the deep state, this is what he's talking about. It doesn't end up looking like a shadowy cabal pulling the strings behind the scenes,

Starting point is 00:19:42 but instead the machinations of a large and powerful bureaucracy that wasn't interested in cooperating with the then-president. And, for what it's worth, Murrell's testimony is mealy-mouthed and unconvincing. Why is Aaron Blake framing Murrell's answer to the question of whether Blinken directed him to do this, my memory is that he did not, as some kind of definitive end of the conversation? Anytime someone testifying under oath starts talking about their memory and not what did or didn't happen, your spidey sense should be tingling. Imagine for a moment the inverse. The New York Times publishes a damning story about Donald Trump Jr. The story is true. Trump's press person, let's say Sarah Huckabee Sanders, contacts the head of the FBI, a staunch pro-Trump conservative who wants to work in the Trump administration. That conservative calls all

Starting point is 00:20:30 his other FBI and CIA friends, many of whom want Trump to be president. Together, they release a statement dismissing the story as potential Chinese disinformation to keep Trump from the White House. Would the New York Times be ignoring that story? Would that not be headline news for at least 24 hours? This story is something every national politics reporter should be looking into. It shouldn't have to be another Watergate for us to care, and doesn't have to change the outcome of the election for this to matter. Maybe it is more smoke than fire. We don't know that unless people actually do the work of investigating it.

Starting point is 00:21:09 As it stands, it's another data point for Americans who think the system can be rigged. The elite are working in concert in ways we don't know, and our intelligence agencies and powerful government officials are often protecting each other in ways we never see. It's hard to argue that they're wrong. that they're wrong. All right, that is it for my take, which brings us to today's Blindspot report. Once a week, we present the Blindspot report from our partners at Ground News, an app that tells you the bias of news coverage and what stories people on each side are missing. The left missed the story on New York City Mayor Eric Adams saying the migrant crisis has destroyed the city. The right missed a story that changes on Twitter have led to a surge of Chinese and Russian propaganda on the platform. All right, that is it for our Blindspot report. A heads up that tomorrow in a subscribers-only newsletter, we are going to be sharing some reader feedback.

Starting point is 00:22:05 Last week, we waded into the Bud Light Dylan Mulvaney controversy. As I expected and is usually true with trans issues in America today, our coverage generated a ton of feedback. I heard from trans folks, people who once questioned their gender identity but no longer do, liberal activists, staunch conservatives, therapists who work with trans children, and many more. In tomorrow's subscribers-only post, I'm going to be sharing some of that feedback with you. This is your chance not just to see some criticism of my writing, but also to hear directly from experts, trans Americans, and others. I think it will be a very interesting read. If you want to receive tomorrow's newsletter, please remember you have to be a Tangle member. Members allow us to keep 80% of our content free for everyone. They allow us to produce this

Starting point is 00:22:50 podcast and they also get subscribers only Friday editions in the newsletter and I hope very soon subscribers only podcasts. Memberships are cheap, just $4.16 a month when you subscribe for the year. You can become a member by going to readtangle.com slash membership. All right, next up is our under the radar story. In a wide ranging, extensive and sometimes combative interview, Dr. Anthony Fauci sat down with the New York Times David Wallace Wells and discussed his own performance during the pandemic. New York Times David Wallace-Wells and discussed his own performance during the pandemic. During the interview, Fauci reflects on the efficacy of mass, the mistakes he made early in the pandemic, and how he hopes things might change in the future. He also talks openly about the things

Starting point is 00:23:35 that surprised him most about the pandemic and why he made some of the more controversial decisions he made. You can read a transcript of the interview with a link in today's episode description. All right, next up is our numbers section. The peak amount of time in one day the word WikiLeaks took up on Fox News in mid-October was 198 seconds. The peak amount of time in one day the word Hunter took up was 273 seconds. The peak amount of time in one day the word Hunter took up was 273 seconds. The peak amount of time in one day the word Hunter took up on CNN was just 20 seconds. The percentage of Biden voters who said they mainly voted for him to oppose Trump was 68 percent. The percentage of Americans who said they had heard of investigations into Hunter Biden's business dealings, according to a 2022 YouGov poll, was 67%. All right, and last but not least, our have a nice day story. As many of you know, we recently launched a YouTube channel. I did not realize, but my newly hired editor, John, who also edits

Starting point is 00:24:38 this podcast, has been quietly slipping in bloopers of me at the end of the video where I'm knocking over water or completely bungling my attempts to sign off. They gave me a laugh, so I figured you might enjoy them too. I'll also take this discovery as my opportunity to remind you that our YouTube channel is live, and we could really use your support, like, share, subscribe, and best of all, we're going to start churning out more YouTube-only content like short videos, reactions to news, breakdowns of news topics, interviews like the ones we have on this podcast, but with video. So check out today's bloopers. There are links to it in today's episode description.

Starting point is 00:25:16 And please do not forget to subscribe. We'll be back here on Monday. Have a great weekend. Peace. on Monday. Have a great weekend. Peace. Our podcast is written by me, Isaac Saul, and edited by John Long. Our script is edited by Ari Weitzman, Bailey Saul, and Sean Brady. The logo for our podcast was designed by Magdalena Bokova, who's also our social media manager. Music for the podcast was produced by Diet75. For more on Tangle, please go to readtangle.com and check out our website. Based on Charles Yu's award-winning book, Interior Chinatown follows We'll be right back. his family's buried history, and what it feels like to be in the spotlight. Interior Chinatown is streaming November 19th, only on Disney+. The flu remains a serious disease.

Starting point is 00:26:29 Last season, over 102,000 influenza cases have been reported across Canada, which is nearly double the historic average of 52,000 cases. What can you do this flu season? Talk to your pharmacist or doctor about getting a flu shot. Consider FluCellVax Quad and help protect yourself from the flu. It's the first cell-based flu vaccine authorized in Canada for ages six months and older, and it may be available for free in your province. Side effects and allergic reactions can occur, and 100% protection is not guaranteed.

Starting point is 00:26:57 Learn more at FluCellVax.ca.

Tangle - Michael Morell's testimony.

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