Tangle - PREVIEW - SPECIAL EDITION: Gabbard, Kennedy, and Patel's confirmation hearings.

Episode Date: February 1, 2025

On Thursday, Senate committees held hearings to consider the nominations of Tulsi Gabbard for director of national intelligence, Robert F. Kennedy Jr. for secretary of Health and Human Services (HHS), and Kash Patel as director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI). While most of President Donald Trump’s nominees have been confirmed by the Senate with bipartisan support — including Secretary of State Marco Rubio, Interior Secretary Doug Burgum, Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent, and Secretary of Homeland Security Kristi Noem — Gabbard, Kennedy, and Patel’s outlook is the most uncertain of Trump’s remaining nominees. In today’s special Friday edition, we’ll cover their Senate hearings in a truncated version of our standard Tangle format with an overview of each hearing, perspectives from writers on the left and right, and our take. This is a preview of today's special edition that is available in full and ad-free for our premium podcast subscribers. If you'd like to complete this episode and receive Sunday editions, exclusive interviews, bonus content, and more, head over to tanglemedia.supercast.com and sign up for a membership. If you are currently a newsletter subscriber, inquiry with us about how to receive a 33% discount on a podcast subscription! Ad-free podcasts are here!Many listeners have been asking for an ad-free version of this podcast that they could subscribe to — and we finally launched it. You can go to tanglemedia.supercast.com to sign up! You can also give the gift of a Tangle podcast subscription by clicking here.You can subscribe to Tangle by clicking here or drop something in our tip jar by clicking here. Our podcast is written by Isaac Saul and edited and engineered by Jon Lall. Music for the podcast was produced by Diet 75. Our newsletter is edited by Managing Editor Ari Weitzman, Will Kaback, Bailey Saul, Sean Brady, and produced in conjunction with Tangle’s social media manager Magdalena Bokowa, who also created our logo. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Call 1-866-531-2600 or visit connectsontario.ca. Please play responsibly. From executive producer Isaac Saul, this is Tangle. Good morning, good afternoon and good evening and welcome to the Tangle podcast, a place where you get views from across the political spectrum, some independent thinking and a little bit of our take. I am your host today, editor Will Kavak, and we have a special Friday edition for you. We are going to be talking about three major confirmation hearings for President Trump's appointees. That includes Tulsi Gabbard, Robert F. Kennedy Jr.,

and Cash Patel. Those hearings were held this week. We're gonna be diving into what happened at the hearings, what was said, what the reactions were, and then our assessment of where those nominations stand going forward. A lot to get to, a lot of news, excited to bring this to you, so let's jump right into it.

["Dreams of a New World"] Before we get started though, a few quick hits for you on this Friday. Number one, a preliminary Federal Aviation Administration safety report on the mid-air collision between a passenger plane and military helicopter near Reagan National Airport on Wednesday found that staffing at the airport's control tower was quote, not normal for the time of day and volume of traffic, end quote. Additionally, the report said that the controller who was responsible

for coordinating helicopters near the airport at the time of the crash was tasked with duties that are usually handled by two controllers. Number two, President Donald Trump affirmed that his plan for 25% tariffs on Canadian and Mexican goods will take effect this weekend, adding that he may or may not exempt petroleum imports. Number three, the Justice Department sued to block Hewlett Packard Enterprises' attempt to acquire Juniper Networks for $14 billion, which is the first attempt to stop a merger by the Trump administration. Number four, the Bureau of Economic Analysis reported that real gross domestic product, GDP, grew at an annual rate of 2.3% in quarter four of 2024, down from 3.1% in quarter three and slightly below expectations of 2.5% quarterly growth. And finally, number five, Uganda reported an Ebola outbreak in its capital, Kampala,

after recording the first death from the virus since the country's last outbreak two years ago. On Thursday, Senate committees held hearings to consider the nominations of Tulsi Gabbard for Director of National Intelligence, Robert F. Kennedy Jr. for Secretary of Health and Human Services, and Cash Patel for Director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, the FBI. While most of President Donald Trump's nominees have been confirmed by the Senate with bipartisan support, including Secretary of State Marco Rubio, Interior Secretary Doug Bergam,

Treasury Secretary Scott Besant, and Secretary of State Marco Rubio, Interior Secretary Doug Burgum, Treasury Secretary Scott Besant, and Secretary of Homeland Security Kristi Noem. Gabbard, Kennedy, and Patel's outlook is the most uncertain of Trump's remaining nominees. In today's special Friday edition, we cover their Senate hearings in a truncated version of our standard Tangle format with an overview of each hearing, perspectives from writers on the left and right, and finally, our take. First, Gabbard's hearing. Tulsi Gabbard is President Trump's nominee for Director of National Intelligence, DNI. On Thursday, the Senate Intelligence Committee questioned her for nearly three hours in a

hearing that focused on her foreign policy views and passed stances on issues like Russia, Syria, and surveillance practices by US intelligence agencies. Gabbard is a military veteran and former Democratic Congresswoman from Hawaii, who served in the House of Representatives from 2013 to 2021. In 2022, Gabbard left the Democratic party and registered as an independent before joining the Republican party in October of 2024 to support President Trump. During the hearing, several senators asked Gabbard about her views on Section 702 of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, also known as FISA, which authorizes intelligence agencies to collect information on potential national

security threats without a warrant. Of note, the law does not allow for explicit targeting of US citizens, but through section 702, the data and communications of US citizens may be incidentally collected, retained, and also accessed in, quote, backdoor searches. Gabbard previously worked to repeal this law, but told senators at the hearing that she now supports it. Gabbard was also asked to explain her 2017 meeting with Syrian President Bashar al-Assad

and subsequent skepticism about whether Assad used chemical weapons against his people. Gabbard said she went to Syria to ask Assad, quote, tough questions and that she had, quote, no love for Assad or Gaddafi or any dictator. A key point in the hearing came when Gabbard refused to call Edward Snowden, the National Security Agency whistleblower who leaked information about America's global surveillance programs in 2013, a quote traitor. Although she said that he quote broke the law, both Republicans and Democrats on the committee expressed concern about Gabbard's past support of

Snowden and an anonymous GOP Senate aide stated that Gabbard's past support of Snowden, and an anonymous GOP Senate aid stated that Gabbard's non-answer, quote, could have just cost her the nomination, end quote. The Intelligence Committee will vote in the coming days on whether to advance Gabbard's nomination to a vote of the full Senate. Next, Kennedy's hearing. Robert F. Kennedy Jr. is President Trump's pick for Secretary of Health and Human Services. The two formed an alliance in the final months of the presidential race, with Kennedy dropping his third-party bid and endorsing Trump in August. We covered Kennedy's campaign and endorsement in past editions and podcast episodes of Tangle,

which you can find in our archives. Kennedy had two hearings this week, appearing before the Senate Finance Committee on Wednesday and the Senate Health, Education, Labor Labor and Pensions Committee on Thursday. In the first hearing, Kennedy espoused support for vaccines, saying he believes they, quote, play a critical role in health care. However, several Democrats questioned his past statements about vaccines and the COVID-19 pandemic, claiming that Kennedy regularly trafficked in conspiracy theories, which he denied. Kennedy also appeared to confuse the purpose of Medicare and Medicaid during questioning from Senator Bill Cassidy, a Republican from Louisiana. Separately, Kennedy said he would

work to implement quote, whatever position President Trump takes on regulating the abortion pill, Mifeprestone. In Thursday's hearing, Kennedy faced more questions about his stance on vaccines. Senator Cassidy again asked Kennedy to state whether he believed that the measles and In Thursday's hearing, Kennedy faced more questions about his stance on vaccines. Senator Cassidy again asked Kennedy to state whether he believed that the measles and hepatitis B vaccines cause autism, to which Kennedy replied that he would review data and studies on the vaccinations and make a determination. Cassidy's support for Kennedy's nomination is uncertain, and the senator said he was concerned by Kennedy's history of, quote, undermining confidence in vaccines with unfounded or misleading arguments.

However, most Republican senators expressed support for Kennedy and said they expected him to be confirmed. The Senate Finance Committee will vote on the nomination in the coming days. Next, Patel's hearing. Cash Patel is Trump's nominee for FBI director. On Thursday, Patel sat for a five-hour hearing with the Senate Judiciary Committee. Members from both parties asked Patel about the degree to which the FBI had been politicized, while Democrats scrutinized Patel's previous statements about January 6, QAnon conspiracy theories, and for keeping a list of names to investigate. We previously covered Trump's nomination of Patel in an edition in December, and you

can find that in our archives. Unlike other Senate-confirmed appointments, the FBI head serves a 10-year term. Though the president can fire the director for any reason, that person typically continues to serve in that role even when a new administration begins. Former FBI Director Christopher Wray had three years left on his term, which began when President Trump appointed him in 2017, but resigned ahead of Trump's inauguration after the then-president elect indicated he would remove Wray for his role in the classified documents investigation. Patel faced sharp questioning from Democrats throughout the hearing.

Senator Amy Klobuchar, a Democrat from Minnesota, rebuked Patel for calling the 2020 presidential race a quote fraud and for publishing a quote enemies list in his 2023 book, Government Gangsters. Patel called the claims quote partial statements and false. In response to Senator Dick Durbin, a Democrat from Illinois, asking if he supported a blanket pardon for those convicted of crimes on January 6th, Patel answered, quote, I do not agree with the commutation of any sentence of any individual who committed violence against law enforcement. During the hearing, members of the committee appeared split along party lines on Patel's nomination. Quote, there is an unfathomable

difference between a seeming facade being constructed around this nominee here today, and what he has actually done and said in real life," said Senator Sheldon Whitehouse, a Democrat from Rhode Island. Quote, we want to be the Senate that confirms an FBI director that writes the ship, shows consistent respect for the rule of law and the Constitution, consistent respect for all law enforcement officers, and I absolutely believe you're up to the task," said Senator Tom Tillis, Republican from North Carolina. The Senate Judiciary Committee is expected to convene to vote on Patel's

nomination within the next week. Today, we'll share perspectives on the hearings from commentators across the political spectrum, then managing editor Ari Weitzman and editor Will Kabeck give their takes. We'll be right back after this quick break. At Algoma University, your future has no limits. Here you can go further in the classroom, in the field, and well beyond. We provide personalized education, cultural fluency, and training for in-demand careers. We don't just prepare you for the future, we prepare you to change it.

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Starring Sterling K. Brown, James Martin, and Julianne Nicholson. Paradise is now streaming only on Disney Plus. What commentators are saying about Gabbard. The left is uniformly opposed to Gabbard's nomination, criticizing her past stances on foreign policy issues and accusing her of political opportunism in her support for Trump. In the Washington Post, David Ignatius outlined three reasons to oppose her nomination. Her lack of qualifications, her inconsistent stances on surveillance issues, and her statements on the war in Ukraine that could be construed as pro-Russia. In MSNBC, Matt Johnson questioned her meeting with former Syrian President Bashar al-Assad and subsequent skepticism about whether

he had used chemical weapons on civilians. Quote, for a potential DNI, Gabbard's years-long campaign of questioning Assad's use of chemical weapons reveals a startling inability to evaluate intelligence, Johnson wrote. Meanwhile, Slate's Fred Kaplan called Gabbard's hearing a, quote, total disaster, saying her answers to questions about Section 702 of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, Edward Snowden and the war in Ukraine were disqualifying. Quote, if a flicker of sense still shines above a handful of seats on the Republican side of the Senate, Thursday's hearing should mark the end of Tulsi Gabbard, Kaplan wrote.

Finally, in the New York Times, Ruth Ben-Giott argued Gabbard's views on foreign affairs align with President Trump's interest in deepening relationships with autocratic leaders. Quote, six years ago, Mr. Trump suggested he was open to closer relationships with the world dictators, Ben-Giott said. Quote, his nomination of Ms. Gabbard for director of national intelligence suggests that he intends to renew the invitation. The right is mixed on Gabbard's nomination, but she has many supporters. In The American Conservative, Jake Mercier wrote about how her quote, realist, restraint-oriented approach to US foreign policy drew him to her 2019

presidential campaign, even though she was still a Democrat at the time. Mercier praised Gabbard's consistent stance against quote, unnecessary American intervention in foreign conflicts and said she would bring a fresh voice to Washington foreign policy. the time. Mercera praised Gabbard's consistent stance against quote, unnecessary American intervention in foreign conflicts and said she would bring a fresh voice to Washington foreign policy establishment as DNI. National reviews Michael Brendan Doherty asked quote, what are people mad at Tulsi Gabbard for doing?

Doherty argued that Gabbard's consistent anti-war stance is commendable, noting that past US leaders have worked with immoral foreign leaders to achieve or maintain peace. However, Gabbard also has detractors on the right. The Wall Street Journal editorial board said her apparent unfamiliarity with the purpose of key surveillance tools makes her unfit to be DNI. Quote, the Senate can do Mr. Trump and the country a favor by rejecting a director of national intelligence who doesn't understand the vital tools of the job," the board wrote. In National Review, Noah Rothman wrote a rebuttal to Michael Brendan

Doherty's piece, arguing that Gabbard has shown her personal beliefs cloud her ability to assess national security intelligence. In particular, her comments about Assad and chemical weapons show that she, quote, subordinated the overwhelming assessment of Western intelligence agencies because that assessment might justify a policy she didn't like, Rothman said. What commentators are saying about Kennedy? The right is split on Kennedy's nomination, but his supporters argue that he would be a transformative pick for HHS.

In Fox News, Dr. Mark Siegel framed Kennedy as a, quote, disruptor and reformer who is rightfully concerned about health risks to children that the medical establishment has ignored. Quote, there is a certain cohesiveness to Bobby Kennedy's approach, Siegel wrote. His overarching philosophy regarding the Make America Healthy Again, MAHA movement, is sound. As a society, we weigh far too much, are too sedentary, are exposed to way too many chemicals in our food and our environment that add more inflammation and disease to our bodies. Also in Fox News, David Marcus said Kennedy has earned a chance to lead after helping

Trump to victory. The voters who Kennedy swung to Trump, Marcus argued, quote, are not going to take kindly to the bait and switch if oh-so-principled senators replace their reason for voting Republican with a run-of-the-mill establishment lackey. However, many other conservatives strongly oppose Kennedy and say his answers were disqualifying. The Wall Street Journal editorial board zeroed in on Kennedy's exchange with Senator Elizabeth Warren, a Democrat from Massachusetts, lambasting his evasive answer when asked if he would bring lawsuits against drugmakers in cases where he may have a financial stake. Quote, Warren has an excellent point that Mr.

Kennedy, as HHH secretary, could have the ability to kill off access to vaccines and make millions of dollars while he does it. This ought to trouble Republican senators who profess to care about good government and public health, the board wrote. Separately, the Washington Post's George F. Will said Kennedy's ascendance to the national stage is a price we are still paying, quote, for the collapse of confidence in government that accelerated during COVID-19. Will noted that many Americans have valid reasons to distrust the health establishment

that Kennedy rails against, but, quote, an aroma of lunacy surrounds Kennedy's enthusiasm for smashing the crockery of widely accepted scientific propositions that have been validated by scores of millions of lives saved. The left is critical of Kennedy's performance at the hearing, and his comments deepen their concern about his nomination. The Boston Globe editorial board argued that Kennedy's views would hurt all Americans. Quote, Trump supporters depend on HHS services as much as Trump opponents, the board wrote.

Quote, if only for them, Republican senators skeptical about Kennedy's messianic arrogance need to vote no on this nomination. Similarly, Ben Burgess wrote in MSNBC that, quote, Kennedy is an anti-establishment in any way that would actually help working class people at the expense of wealthy plutocrats. Burgess noted that Kennedy has repeatedly dismissed valid concerns that the U.S. health care system is too profit driven. Others on the left saw the hearing as further confirmation that Kennedy's loyalties lie

with Trump above all else. In the New York Times, Michelle Cottle said Kennedy was poorly prepared for the senator's questions, but his shaky performance won't matter as long as he retains Trump's backing. Quote, if the president is thinking of his cabinet secretaries more as entertaining frontman and woman than as top-tier leaders or managers, then Kennedy fits the bill better than most, Cottle wrote. However, a few on the left suggested that Democrats are missing Kennedy's appeal for a role like HHS secretary. In the Los Angeles Times,

Lee Fang wrote that Kennedy's platform, quote, reads like a wish list for reformers, cracking down on toxic food additives, confronting corporate regulatory capture, and reducing drug prices. Most of all, Kennedy pledges a renewed look at the causes of cancer and other serious ailments, not simply the management of disease. Fang argued that Democrats' opposition to Kennedy is, quote, a reflection of groupthink psychology and the party's drift away from its corporate accountability ethos. We'll be right back after this quick break. Getting dressed should be simple.

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What commentators are saying about Patel? The left opposes Patel's nomination, framing him as a nominee only qualified by his desire to target Trump's political enemies. In MSNBC, Christian Schneider wrote, quote, cash Patel's only qualification for FBI director is his Trump synchofancy. Schneider argued that Patel's resume is unimpressive and he demonstrated no leadership qualities in his hearing, but his loyalty to Trump is unshakable and quote, thus the only thing that matters.

In the New York Times, Jeet Heer explored how Patel could undermine the FBI's mission to remain independent from the president's political directives, comparing him to a mafia figure. Quote, the danger of Mr. Patel's nomination is that Mr. Trump would have a consigliere in a position that is almost uniquely easy to abuse, here wrote. Others on the left highlight Patel's advocacy for the January 6 rioters, questioning how his support for people who broke the law is compatible with a top law enforcement position.

USA Today's Chris Brennan noted how Patel's prior comments about January 6 being used as a, quote, tool to demonize half of America, aligned with Trump's desire for an FBI director, quote, willing to obscure the facts while telling an outlandishly false tale. In The New Yorker, Tess Owen expressed concern that Patel would use the FBI to go after political enemies, writing that he has, quote, made it clear that he sees himself and Trump as being united on their righteous campaign to destroy the very government they are meant to lead. The right meanwhile is optimistic about Patel as FBI director and mostly approves of his nomination coming out of the hearing. In the Daily Signal, Senator

Rick Scott, a Republican from Florida, said the most pressing issue facing the FBI is a loss of trust among Americans of all political beliefs. Patel is the right person to earn back that trust with his quote, mix of traditional criminal justice experience and outside perspective that enables him to see very clearly where and how the FBI has strayed from its mission. PJ Media's Catherine Salgado noted how Patel had once been targeted, in the Trump-Russia probe, by the agency he is now nominated to lead. She argued that this experience gives him the first-hand knowledge required to clean

up the FBI's abuses. In City Journal, former FBI agent Pat McGonigal explored how Patel can help the agency. Quote, At present, however, the institution is broken. The rank and file are grossly underpaid. Morale has cratered, McGonigal wrote. Quote, As director, you should reorient the bureau away from its post 9 11 intelligence function and toward crime fighting. Use your leadership role to advocate for hiring more special agents whose

ranks haven't grown in decades. Others criticized Democratic senators approach to the hearing, arguing they spent their time attacking Patel rather than learning how he would lead the FBI. In The Federalist, Beth Brelgi wrote that Democrats, quote, wasted the resources of the American people by using this time for their desperate attempts to flex their suddenly muted political power. All right. That is it for what commentators are saying about the hearings for Gabbard, Kennedy, and Patel. Now let's move on to our take on the hearings. First up, Tulsi Gabbard.

And this take was written by Tangle's managing editor Ari Weitzman. Former Hawaii representative Tulsi Gabbard, for director of national intelligence, is one of President Trump's more confusing picks, or as Punchbowl News delicately put it, one of his most endangered nominees. With Gabbard, a former Democrat who has spent a lot of her recent years playing the right If you are not currently a newsletter subscriber or a premium podcast subscriber and you are enjoying this content and would like to finish it, you can go to readtangle.com to sign up for a newsletter subscription or you can go to tanglemedia.supercast.com and sign up for our premium podcast membership, which will unlock this complete episode as well as ad free daily podcasts, more Friday additions, Sunday additions, bonus content, interviews, and so much more.

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thank you so much for your support. We're working hard to bring you much more content and more offerings, so stay tuned. Isaac and Ari will be here for the Sunday podcast, and I will join you for the daily podcast on Monday. For the rest of the crew, this is John Law signing off. Have a fantastic weekend, y'all. Peace. Our podcast is written by me, Isaac Saul, and edited and engineered by John Law. The script is

edited by our managing editor, Ari Weitzman, Will Kabak, Bailey Saul, and Sean Brady. The logo for our podcast was designed by Magdalena Bikova, who is also our social media manager. Music for the podcast was produced by Diet 75. And if you're looking for more from Tangle, please go to reettangle.com and check out our website. I'm going to go ahead and close the video. Thank you. the story to you, live. Hundreds of wildfires are burning. Be the first to know what's going on and what that means for you and for Canada. This situation has changed very quickly.

Helping make sense of the world when it matters most. Stay in the know. Download the free CBC News app or visit cbcnews.ca. At Algoma University, your future has no limits. Here, you can go further, in the classroom, in the field, and well beyond.

We provide personalized education, cultural fluency, and training for in-demand careers. We don't just prepare you for the future. We prepare you to change it. Plus, Algoma has the most affordable tuition in Ontario. Make the most of your university experience. Go further! Apply to Algoma University today!

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