Tangle - PREVIEW - The Sunday Podcast: Isaac and Will Kaback discuss all the stories we missed this week, Trump complying with court orders, Grok and Elon Musk.

Episode Date: March 23, 2025

In today's episode, Will Kaback and Isaac Saul discuss all the craziness and numerous stories we missed this week. The fact that President Trump is complying with court orders and nobody seems to care. We give some tip of the hats to Grok, Starlink and our dear friend Elon Musk. Then we play a game where Isaac tries to remember things we did a year ago. And last but not least, the Airing of Grievances.This is a preview of today's special edition that is available in full and ad-free for our premium podcast subscribers. If you'd like to complete this episode and receive Sunday editions, exclusive interviews, bonus content, and more, head over to ReadTangle.com and sign up for a membership.Ad-free podcasts are here!Many listeners have been asking for an ad-free version of this podcast that they could subscribe to — and we finally launched it. You can go to ReadTangle.com to sign up! You can also give the gift of a Tangle podcast subscription by clicking here.You can subscribe to Tangle by clicking here or drop something in our tip jar by clicking here. Our Executive Editor and Founder is Isaac Saul. Our Executive Producer is Jon Lall.This podcast was hosted by Will Kaback and Isaac Saul and edited and engineered by Dewey Thomas. Music for the podcast was produced by Diet 75 and Jon Lall. Our newsletter is edited by Managing Editor Ari Weitzman, Senior Editor Will Kaback, Hunter Casperson, Kendall White, Bailey Saul, and Audrey Moorehead. Our logo was created by Magdalena Bokowa, Head of Partnerships and Socials.  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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I can't even read them all off here. There's dozens of them that we didn't get to cover this week. The fact that Trump's complying with court orders, nobody seems to care. I give some tip of the hats to Grok and Starlink and my dear friend, Elon Musk. And then we play a game where I try to remember things that happened a year ago. And I actually do better than I would have expected, plus some grievances. It's a good one. From executive producer, Isaac Saul. This is Tangle. Good morning, good afternoon, and good evening. And welcome to the Tangle podcast, a place where you get views from across the political

spectrum, some independent thinking, and a little bit of my take. I am your host, Isaac Saul, and joined today by Will K. Back, our senior editor here at Tangle, Ari Weidspin, our managing editor. I actually don't know if he shared where he's going publicly, so maybe I won't be the one to say. He's in the air. He's on a very long flight, we'll say right now. Although I did hear that a judge asked the plan to turn around to bring him back.

So we'll see if the pilot complies. Come on, Will. Too much. Bring Ari back. So we'll see if the pilot complies. Come on, Will. Too much. Too much. Bring Ari back. Yeah. Man. God. I don't even know where to begin. So before we got on the podcast today, I sent Will a Slack message earlier and I was just like, I really want to capture how much is happening right now. And I know it's sort of cliche to just say Trump's flooding the zone or there's so much news or whatever.

It's hard to really know like what the dynamic is, whether it's he and the administration are just doing so much more, or that reporters across the country are doing a better job covering all this stuff that's happening, or that people are so locked in because Trump is such a divisive, evocative figure that everybody's just paying attention and now it's easier to find all these stories.

But it feels like there's more happening. I don't know if you have a view on that. Before I get into this list, I guess I'm curious how to maybe frame it properly, because I really don't know. Yeah, I think like most things with Trump, it's like a combination of everything that you just said. I also think we just came from an administration

where it kind of felt like they were playing prevent defense for four years and throttling the amount of news coming out of the White House on purpose deliberately. And we now have the polar opposite of that. So I think that's made it especially jarring. But there is just objectively so much happening in the news across the government. I don't think that that sense is off at all just because it's Trump. Yeah, it's totally bonkers. So in the event that you haven't actually listened to this podcast before, or if you have, I think it's worth clarifying what I'm about to do here.

I'm just going to share a list of stories that have gotten zero or close to zero mention in the newsletter or the podcast over the last week or so. And these are stories, to be clear again, that we haven't covered in the quick hit section. We haven't shared as an under the radar story. They haven't been the main topic. Just no appearance, no mention in the newsletter. These things have all happened. Just to kind of illustrate how much is going on.

Though maybe one or two of them we've linked out to or referenced to offhandedly in a take or something like that. Broadly speaking, I think none of these have made it into the newsletter. So here's the list that Will and I composed, mostly Will, though I added one or two after he was done. First, the Pentagon is considering a major reorganization of its command structure that's going to halt modernization plans for the US forces, Japan, and relinquishes America's

long time role as NATO's supreme allied commander. This is whatever. We'll get back to a couple of these. Second, dozens of social security offices across the country are closing thanks to actions taken by Doge. Third, President Trump gave a speech at the Justice Department on Friday promising to expose his perceived enemies. He accused several media outlets of illegal behavior.

He declared himself the country's chief law enforcement officer. A jury found Greenpeace liable for actions taken during protests against the Dakota Access Pipeline. It said it should pay pipeline company energy transfer more than $650 million in damages. The value of X has increased in recent months, now valued at $44 billion, which is

about the amount must paid to buy the platform. Ben and Jerry said this week that its parent company Unilever illegally ousted the ice cream, the ice cream or his chief executive because of his support for the company's progressive stances. More than 30 countries expressed willingness to contribute troops to a peacekeeping mission in Ukraine if a peace deal is reached between Russia and Ukraine. A federal judge said that the government may have willfully disobeyed a court order after US immigration officials deported Russia al-Awiya. I'm probably mispronouncing that last name. That was pretty good actually.

Okay, thank you. You got it. A Lebanese citizen and member of Brown University's medical school faculty who had a valid visa to remain in the country. That's a different deportation story than the one we covered already, just to be clear. In a sworn declaration filed in court, an immigration attorney,

and this I saw just before we got on the show, alleged that the Trump administration deported a soccer player who had escaped the Maduro regime and had been tortured by the Maduro regime. He filed under the CBP-1 Act, the CBP-1 Act to come to the United States, sought asylum legally here, had no criminal record, and he was sent to a prison in El Salvador. This filing was made under oath by an immigration lawyer.

Adam Bowler, a healthcare investor and White House official during President Trump's first term, had to withdraw his nomination to serve as a special presidential envoy for hostage affairs after he received criticism for conducting direct negotiations with the representatives of Hamas at Trump's request. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, the CDC published data showing that the US recorded more than 300 cases of measles in the first three months of 2025, surpassing last year's 12-month total of 285 cases. Canada is reconsidering its plan to spend billions of dollars on American-made F-35 jets in response to Trump's tariffs. A fire that broke out during a live concert in an overcrowded nightclub in North Macedonia

killed 59 people and injured another 155. Harvard expanded its financial aid program to make the university tuition-free for families making less than $200,000 a year. Alphabet, you might know them as Google, announced a deal to buy the fast growing cybersecurity startup, Wiz, for $32 billion with a B. It's biggest deal ever. Chinese EV maker, BYD unveiled new charging platforms. It says, can power a car to travel 400 kilometers, that's 249 miles after just a five minute charge.

That would make it far superior to Tesla and some other electric vehicles we know about. Starlink, Elon Musk satellite internet service, was reportedly installed at the White House. The number of migrants trying to travel through the Darien Gap to get from Colombia into Panama and eventually the United States has fallen so dramatically in the recent months that it's now at its lowest levels since the pandemic. Russia continued bombing Ukraine shortly after a ceasefire. We somehow just didn't talk about that Putin Trump ceasefire deal. And then that night, literally Russia started bombing residential Ukraine again.

Doge forced its way into the US Institute of Peace building after a prolonged back and forth with security and police. A judge then denied a request to pause the takeover. We've seen tons of stories about Democrats and Republicans at these town hall meetings, just getting completely eviscerated by attendees, Republicans for a lot of the Doge Elon stuff, Democrats for not tanking the CR that they just helped Senate Republicans pass. The Republican in Minnesota, Will's home state, tough look for Will. He introduced the Trump Derangement Syndrome Bill, was arrested for soliciting a minor.

He's a Minnesota state senator who got some notoriety for that Trump Derangement Syndrome Bill and now is in the news once again for very bad reasons. Again, every story that I just listed is one that in our five newsletters with 20, 25 stories a piece at the top, plus the under the radar section, plus the main story we're covering, plus my take where I reference all sorts of stuff happening in the news, we just didn't get to cover or mention, I mean literally mention. I don't know any of these stick out to you as

particularly interesting. We'll be right back after this quick break. What if everything you thought you knew about your own child was a lie? Ellen Pompeo and Mark DuPlace star in Good American Family. In this all-new limited series, a couple adopt what they believe is an eight-year-old girl, but when concerns soon arise, it forces them to question her actual identity. Told from multiple perspectives, Good American Family is inspired by the true events

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That was like a monologue. That was something else. I mean, it's a remarkable list. I mean, we'll talk a little bit about the Trump and the courts and the legal system stuff in a bit. But I do think the speech at the Justice Department just seemed pretty unusual, even by his standards. I watched excerpts of it and yeah, it was kind of a highlight reel of grievances that he talked a lot about in the campaign, but takes on a different tone when he's doing it as president at the Justice Department headquarters.

I quietly think that Canada F-35 story is a pretty big deal. I think that's like one of those things where that would be a lot of money on a contract lost out on. I mean, I'm not saying it's going to move the bottom line necessarily, but we're talking about like tangible repercussions for this tariffs ordeal. If more stuff like that starts to happen, and there's been some rumblings about similar kind of contracts being canceled from the EU, I could see that kind of spiraling a little bit out of control, or at least just like laying the terms of these tariffs and more,

and in a more stark reality. And then, I mean, the social security offices, that was when you flagged to me right before this and I was just reading about it. And again, you talk about tangible effects. Like there's been a lot of questions about, you know, will these doge cuts, will these Doge actions actually take effect? They're being challenged in courts, but when offices start closing and offices that provide vital services start closing all around the country,

we're in that now. I think that's a big one. And then, yeah, I think the Ben and Jerry story will probably be our main story on Monday. So I'll save discussion on that. But yeah, I think those are the ones that stick out to me. Yeah, I mean, I would say the one that sort of offends my sensibilities the most is probably either Trump's speech

at the Justice Department, which, you know, just overtly political and, in some ways I don't think it matters. Or I have a hard time supporting the assertion that it matters because he says all this stuff every day anyway. And so it's like, who cares if he's just repeating it at the Justice Department. And I get that. There's a general scorn for norms and people are just, oh, you're pearl clutching, whatever. I kind of think it matters. I have a hard time articulating exactly why, but I don't love the president at the independent

justice department just talking about all the people that he's going to get revenge on and wants to lock up, et cetera, et cetera. It's at the very least, it's a really scary prospect in terms of the signals he's sending about how he views his power and who he thinks works for him and what he thinks their job is. In this case, you know, our law enforcement arms

and that their job is to go find his political enemies and make them pay. So that's pretty scary. And then the, I mean, the one that just like, the one that makes me sort of enraged, I guess, is the story about this Venezuelan soccer player who got deported, which we saw, I saw it just before we came on the show.

Yeah, I hadn't seen that. Yeah, of course we're assuming that this filing is, it appears totally genuine. I mean, I had five minutes to read about it before we hopped on. But like, this is why you don't do what they're doing. This is why you have due process is because you don't want to send an innocent Venezuelan who came here, by the way, legally under, if this is true through the CBP one app that the Biden administration created and you can blame the Biden administration for doing that, but this person saw a pathway to come here with temporary status through a legal channel, used it, was here, has no criminal record, and then gets arrested and deported and sent

to this insane prison in El Salvador when he's not a criminal. He's a professional soccer player who fled Venezuela, as far as I can tell. You know, it's just like we have laws and rules for how to do these things for a reason. And this is why we have immigration courts to adjudicate this stuff. So people like this don't end up being sent back close to the place they just fled, or in this case, also in a totally random country that they don't live in

and have no affiliation with and are now in prison there with probably very limited recourse on how to get out. It's insane. I mean, it's totally insane. Yeah, and as we were covering this story, a lot of what we were talking about is that even if every single person who's deported on these flights was a gang member, was a criminal, like was alleged, there's still

obviously the due process problems. There's the problems with potentially defying the judge's order. But if it turns out that the Trump administration didn't do its due diligence in who it put on these planes and who it deported. Story just takes on another level of alarm. And it seems like that's what's happening now as we learn more about who these people were. Yeah, and I wanna, again, I did not have as much time as I should have to verify all this stuff because this was kind of just coming out as we came on.

But one of the things that I said in the initial piece that we did about this deportation effort was that ISIS has claimed that they were using these sort of traditional investigative methods, bank statements, victim statements. They were looking into these people they arrested and deported and had proof that they were members of the TDA gang. And it appears that this particular person was deported over a tattoo. Again, these are some of the allegations that I just saw. I think that the lawyer is making some of the suppressing on social media. I haven't had enough time to verify them.

But at first glance, it looks a lot like the kind of story I referenced, which was a lot like the kind of situation I referenced, which was, I really hope that they're not just doing this based off something as flimsy as social media posts. Tattoos fall into that category. Seeing somebody and seeing a tattoo they have and presuming that it's some sort of gang tattoo,

gang affiliation, because it looks like something somebody else is having and then getting them deported is a really bad way to do business. So yeah, I find that incredibly concerning. I also, I guess the only other one that feels worth reiterating is Russia just, I mean, just literally Putin just keeps bombing Ukraine hours after the

ceasefire on the energy infrastructure. And the reporting out of Ukraine is like, they're just, just nothing changed. And I don't know, it's crazy. I mean, it's just like, isn't Trump embarrassed? But like if, if another country did this, wouldn't he be like, if's just like, isn't Trump embarrassed? Like if another country did this, wouldn't he be like, if Ukraine did this, he would be infuriated. I just don't understand how it's not a bigger story

and how little people seem to care that they just completely flaunted this thing that was celebrated for like a full news cycle. Yeah, I mean, I have seen him taking some flack for the outcome of the call with Putin. I saw National Reviews editors had a piece that, and I think the Wall Street Journal editorial board as well, that essentially said that, you know, Putin played him

and that Trump went into that call expecting Putin to commit to the 30 day ceasefire that Ukraine had committed to. Instead, we have this kind of energy infrastructure ceasefire that's contingent on Ukraine's agreement. No further discussions on a full ceasefire. So I think he's getting some flak from the side you would expect, but I mean, yeah, there's not a consistent standard here. I mean, that's also just been apparent since what happened in the Oval Office two weeks ago. So to me, it's a continuation of that. I don't know

where we're gonna go. I don't exactly know how you save face if you ultimately fail to get a deal of any kind if you're Trump, but, you know, in my mind, I'm sure he just is trying to keep whatever tenuous path that he thinks he has open by not hitting Russia harder for this. But it's not in his nature. He's not going to go out and criticize Putin the way that he does other countries. Yeah. And I don't think, like many people do, this is some Trump's a Russia agent Putin Flaky whatever it is Putin lackey, I the real thing is that

Is that Trump operates in a very specific and obvious way? Which is that people who flatter him and treat him well, he treats them well publicly It is the most I would say aside from his anti-immigrant sentiment, or draconian immigration policies, whoever you wanna call them, his belief that he wants to limit legal and illegal immigration,

and his belief in tariffs is a powerful economic tool. The most consistent tried and true thing about Trump is that if somebody is nice to him, he will be nice to them and it doesn't matter who it is. I mean, we saw it with Kim Jong-un. We see it with Putin. We see it with leaders in Saudi Arabia. Even Macron, I mean, he came here and he's just like, knows exactly what to do.

You come in, you kiss the ring, you make a couple of jokes, you slap him on the back and then he leaves. Trump's trashing Europe, doing all this stuff and all of a sudden just adding an asterisk around France and how great they are and how awesome the cronies. It is not that hard to figure the guy out. If I were a foreign leader, I would be like, this is delicious. It's so simple just yeah And I don't know that that's you know, if you're Trump you we could laugh at that and scoff at and mocking for it

It's not the worst strategy to just be transparently transactional like that Like, you know, I know if you're if you're good to me, I'll be good to you And if you're not I'm gonna make your life. It makes things simple for sure, but it's funny. I mean, it's definitely something funny about it because then you get these weird situations where, Trudeau refuses to bend the knee and now Canada is our enemy and Putin just says nice things about him and the Trump administration and he gets whatever he wants.

I mean, it's crazy. Yeah. I don't it's crazy. Yeah. I don't know if you saw the video of when the UK prime minister, Keir Starmer visited the White House. This was just before the Slansky blow up. And he literally, he was, I mean, I think he was better than McCrone. Like he came with a letter from the King,

signed by the King inviting Trump for official visit. And you can see Trump's face light up when he produces it like in a very theatrical manner before they get into the press conference that they're having. And Trump is like, oh, what's this? Oh, what's this? And he reads these like, oh, it's signed by the king? Oh my goodness, this is such a great honor.

And you can just see, and that sets the rest of the meeting on such a positive footing. And it got the outcome that I think the UK and Europe probably would have wanted. Again, I don't think that's inherently bad, especially if that means that it's easy to maintain alliances with the people we want to maintain alliances with. But yeah, I mean, but again, it just means like everything's on the table, right?

It means that anything that's happened in the past doesn't really matter. It's what are you going to do for me right now? Yeah, yeah, definitely. We'll be right back after this quick break. Now streaming, what do you know about the happy face killer? He's my father. So good to see you missing. Experience the thrilling new series. He said he killed another woman. Inspired by a true life story.

If I don't deal with him, he will never leave us alone. You don't see how the births seem to you. Anna Lee Ashford and Dennis Quaid star. I am not responsible for what my dad did. This going how you hoped? Happy Face, new series now streaming exclusively on Paramount+. not getting rewards like extra data and dollars off with your mobile plan. You're not with Fizz. Switch today. Conditions apply.

Details at Fizz.ca. I guess to put a little bow on this and transition to the next thing that I really want to talk about, there's a few other stories that we didn't share as quick hits and we didn't cover as main stories. I did reference a couple of them in one of my takes this week, but they feel important to talk about here, which is these reversals, these court orders, basically reversing a lot of what's been happening,

a lot of the executive action that the Trump administration has been taking. Elon Musk gets ordered to reinstate USAID workers, 24,000 of them, give or take. Trump has to disclose when and where these flights left with, you know, the alleged gang members. There's a reinstatement of transgender troops in the military, which impacts some 4,000 troops in the US military or 4,000 members, service members. And then there's a reinstatement of Department of Education grants. And I think there was one other big one that I'm forgetting off the top of my head, but

there was another, I saw another judge orders X, Y, Z thing that I hadn't seen yet just last night or this morning. Okay. Yeah. And I want to, I want to talk about this for a couple of reasons. First of all, I think it's important to call out that, you know, there's a good deal of the Trump administration's quote unquote victory so far that are being undone rather quickly by the court system. And that if all he is going to rely on is sort of this

executive action and executive overreach and testing the boundaries of his power, they're not going to have a whole ton to show for it. I'm seeing stuff now, Tim Wall, some other Democrats have been saying, you know, this is an opportunity when we get back in power to rebuild these federal agencies that they're tearing down, sort of working under the presumption that all of this is going to work. I'm not totally convinced. I'm sure they're going to have a big impact, but we'll see, I guess, you know, which is just to say, I wouldn't presume that a lot of the stuff we've occupied our minds with the last two months are going to be the things

that we remember about the Trump administration in five years. And the second thing that also feels worth talking about, because one of the number one questions I get from liberals who listen to this podcast or read our newsletter is why we read this. Hey everybody. This is John, executive producer of YouTube and podcast content and co-host of The Daily Podcast. I hope you enjoyed this preview of our Sunday podcast with Ari and Isaac. We are now offering this podcast exclusively to our premium podcast members,

along with our ad-free daily podcasts, Friday editions, in-depth interviews, upcoming new podcast series, bonus content, and much more. If you wanna receive all that and give your support to help grow Tangle Media, please go to readtangle.com, where you can sign up for a newsletter membership, a podcast membership, or a discounted bundle membership,

which gets you both access to the premium newsletter and the premium podcast. If it's not the right time for you to sign up, please don't worry. Our ad-supported daily podcast isn't going anywhere. But if it is in your ability to support by signing up for a membership, we would greatly appreciate it. And we're really excited to share all of our premium offerings with you. We'll be right back here tomorrow. For Isaac and the rest of the crew, this is John Law signing off. Have a great day, y'all. Take care.

Bye, y'all. Our podcast is written by me, Isaac Saul, and edited and engineered by John Law. The script is edited by our managing editor, Ari Weitzman, Will K. Back, Bailey Saul, and Sean Brady. The logo for our podcast was designed by Magdalena Bacopa, who is also our social media manager. Music for the podcast was produced by Diet 75. If you're looking for more from Tangle, please go to readtangle.com and check out our website. now streaming. What do you know about the Happy Face killer? He's my father. It's so good to see you, Missy. Experience the thrilling new series.

He said he killed another woman. Inspired by a true life story. If I don't deal with him, he will never leave us alone. You don't see how the words sang to you. Annaleigh Ashford and Dennis Quaid star. I am not responsible for what my dad did. It's going how you hoped. Happy Face Face new series now streaming exclusively on Paramount Plus. With the Fizz loyalty program you get rewarded just for having a mobile plan.

You know for texting and stuff and if you're not getting rewards like extra data and dollars off with your mobile plan you're not with Fizz. Switch today conditions apply details at fizz.ca