Tangle - Russia's arrest of Evan Gershkovich.

Starting point is 00:00:00 Based on Charles Yu's award-winning book, Interior Chinatown follows the story of Willis Wu, a background character trapped in a police procedural who dreams about a world beyond Chinatown. When he inadvertently becomes a witness to a crime, Willis begins to unravel a criminal web, his family's buried history, and what it feels like to be in the spotlight. Interior Chinatown is streaming November 19th, only on Disney+. The flu remains a serious disease. Last season, over 102,000 influenza cases have been reported across Canada, which is Chinatown is streaming November 19th, only on Disney+. yourself from the flu. It's the first cell-based flu vaccine authorized in Canada for ages six months and older, and it may be available for free in your province. Side effects and allergic reactions can occur, and 100% protection is not guaranteed. Learn more at flucellvax.ca.

Starting point is 00:01:00 From executive producer Isaac Saul, this is Tangle. Good morning, good afternoon, and good evening, and welcome to the Tangle podcast, the place we get views from across the political spectrum. Some independent thinking without all that hysterical nonsense you find everywhere else. I'm your host, Isaac Saul, and on today's episode, we're going to be talking about Evan Gershkovich, the Wall Street Journal reporter who was recently detained in Russia. Before we jump in, though, as always, we're going to start off with some quick hits. First up, House Speaker Kevin McCarthy unveiled a plan to raise the debt ceiling by $1.5 trillion and introduce spending cuts on COVID funds, IRS funding, and student loan forgiveness. Number two, the Supreme Court temporarily extended access to the abortion pill drug Mifepristone until Friday night.

Starting point is 00:02:07 Number three, two teenage brothers and a 20-year-old man were charged with reckless murder after a mass shooting at a Sweet 16 birthday party in Alabama. Number four, Republicans blocked a Democratic request to temporarily replace Senator Dianne Feinstein on the Senate Judiciary Committee, leaving stalled judicial nominees in limbo. Number five, SpaceX's uncrewed Starship exploded shortly after takeoff this morning, coming apart over the Gulf of Mexico. A Russian court has denied an appeal from American journalist Evan Gershkovich. The Wall Street Journal reporter was detained last month accused of espionage. He could face up to 20 years in prison if he's convicted. American journalist Evan Gershkovich, seen publicly today for the first time since his arrest in late March as a Russian court denied his appeal and refused to grant bail,

Starting point is 00:03:09 returning him to a former KGB prison until his next pretrial hearing in May. The court appearance was his first. He was arrested in Yekaterinburg nearly three weeks ago. The authorities say Mr. Gershkowitz had tried to obtain classified information but have offered no evidence to support their claims. He's the first American journalist to face espionage charges in Russia since the Soviet times. On Tuesday, a Russian court upheld the detention of Wall Street Journal reporter Evan Gershkovich, who was arrested while reporting last month and is being accused of espionage. Both the U.S. and

Starting point is 00:03:45 the Wall Street Journal strongly deny the allegations and have designated Gershkovich as wrongfully detained. Gershkovich, a 31-year-old American citizen, is being held in a prison pending trial in Lefrotov. Many political prisoners have been kept in the same prison. His hearing was held behind closed doors, though he did appear in the glass encased defendant's box that has become common in Russian courtrooms. It was the first time he had been seen in public since March 30th. It is rare for defendants to win appeals or be acquitted in cases in Russia, especially on charges of espionage, which are often politically motivated. Lynn Tracy, the U.S. ambassador to Russia, was attending the trial and called for his immediate release. Tracy also called for the

Starting point is 00:04:29 release of Paul Whelan, another American being held by Russia, who has also been classified by the U.S. government as wrongfully detained. Gershivich was accredited to work as a journalist in Russia and was on assignment for the Wall Street Journal. He had lived there for the last six years. Russia's Federal Security Service, the successor of the KGB, said he was acting on the instructions of the American side, collected information consulting a state secret about the activities of one of the enterprises of the Russian military-industrial complex. They have yet to present any evidence to support the allegation. Gershkovich's parents, who emigrated from the Soviet Union decades ago, said they received a handwritten letter from their son on Friday in

Starting point is 00:05:09 which he expressed optimism about the situation and assured them he wasn't losing hope. Gershkovich could be sentenced for up to 20 years in prison and likely will be. The vast majority of espionage sentences end with a guilty verdict. WNBA star Brittany Griner was recently released from a Russian prison after serving more than nine months in jail. She was sentenced to nine years in prison for possession of marijuana vape cartridges, and she was sent back to the U.S. in exchange for Russian arms dealer Viktor But. More recently, Russian opposition leader Vladimir Karamurza, a former journalist, was sentenced to 25 years in prison for his public opposition to the war in Ukraine. Today, we're going to take a look at some reactions from the left and the right

Starting point is 00:05:50 to Gershkovich's arrest, and then my take. Before we jump in, a quick point of agreement. Pundits from across the political spectrum have said Gershkovich is being wrongly detained and criticized Russian President Vladimir Putin for his arrest. So with that out of the way, we'll start with what the right is saying. Many on the right call for Gershkovich to be freed and emphasize the fact he is not a spy. Some call out the Biden administration's weakness and argue a new strategy is needed when Americans are unjustly imprisoned. Others say this is the latest evidence Russia is being re-Sovietized under Putin. In the Wall Street Journal, Peggy Noonan said Evan Gershkovich is not a spy. The best journalists are and always have been professionals who are simply trying to locate the truth and tell it, Noonan said. They want to tell the people what

Starting point is 00:06:50 they have a right to know about the world they live in. Many, like war correspondents, put themselves in danger because the people of countries at war deserve to know what is happening on the ground. Gershkovich did his job in danger, as all reporters in Moscow do, operating under harsh press laws since the Ukraine war. He's the first American reporter to be charged with espionage since the Cold War, and there is every reason to be very worried about him. Of course, everyone knows he isn't a spy. He is a journalist who is now a state hostage held, it is generally assumed, for some future trade down the road, she said. Noonan also called on any commentators or political figures who have said something that Putin may have agreed with to use their potential influence to call out what is,

Starting point is 00:07:33 in effect, Evan Gershkovich's abduction and his cruel and cynical imprisonment. In the New York Post, Richard Goldberg criticized Biden's weakness on Russia's hostage-taking, which puts Americans abroad at risk. Putin's brazen act should compel President Joe Biden to overhaul how the government responds to states that take Americans hostage, putting an end to ransom negotiations and authorizing active measures against the government's individuals involved, Goldberg said. It isn't new for Putin to leverage detained Americans to get Russians out of prison, but seizing a U.S. journalist represents a significant escalation in the hostage-taking

Starting point is 00:08:10 arena. Putin's gambit in arresting Brittany Greiner to get Victor Boot out of prison paid off. He is watching closely as Iran tries to negotiate the release of hostages for the lifting of financial sanctions, and perhaps Putin sees his newest American hostage as a prize worth more than just another prisoner. If Americans simply wait for Russia's faux legal process to play out and then swap a Russian spy for Gershkovich's freedom, that will only invite more high-profile American hostage-taking. In National Review, Jay Nordlinger wrote about the re-Sovietization of Russia. According to Memorial, there are more political prisoners in Russia today than there were in the late Soviet period. Memorial was the leading civil society organization in Russia. It has been banned along with civil society more

Starting point is 00:08:55 broadly, Nordlinger wrote. Some political prisoners are well known, most are not. Nordlinger listed several political prisoners arrested in the last few years before noting that Gershkovich was a lover of Russia. There is usually a deal, and there probably will be for the new hostage, Evan Gershkovich. For many years now, some of us have been accused of having Cold War nostalgia. The truth is, we are capable of seeing what is right in front of our noses. We are realists, Norlinger said. For many years, people have said to us, today's Russia is not the Soviet Union, you know. The best reply to that is, does Putin? All right, that is it for the rightist saying, which brings us to what the left is saying. Many on the left emphasize Gershkovich's innocence and criticize Putin's increasing

Starting point is 00:09:49 authoritarianism. Some emphasize the importance of press freedom worldwide and the threat to it from Putin and increasingly conservatives in America. Others say covering Russia is more dangerous now than it's been in decades. In the Washington Post, Jason Rezaian, who was in prison for 544 days in Iran, said Gershkovich is standing tall. When Gershkovich appeared in the Moscow courtroom, everyone played their part. Everyone, that is, except Gershkovich. Rather than cowering from the glare or looking confused or scared, he stood there with his head held high. He made the correct assessment early on in his ordeal that he has nothing to hide and nothing to be ashamed of. I remember a similar sense coming

Starting point is 00:10:29 over me during my own trial in Iran. Make no mistake, Rezaian said, one is certainly beset by a sense of fear when the full weight of an authoritarian regime is bearing down upon you, but there is also defiance and knowledge that you are deeply wronged. Gershkovich is now a member of a select community of unfortunate souls who are unjustly subjected to abuse by those wielding unchecked power, and his show trial is about scaring foreign journalists and silencing critics at home. The Philadelphia Inquirer editorial board called it another salvo in the war against democracy. The arrest is part of a broader attack on the free press in Russia and beyond, the board said. With trust in media near record lows,

Starting point is 00:11:11 Gershkovich's jailing may not attract as much attention as the arrest of a women's professional basketball star like Brittany Griner, but it should be cause for alarm and further unify the United States against Russia President Vladimir Putin's unjust war on its neighbor. Yet, being anti-media is part of the GOP's identity. Florida Governor Ron DeSantis is called for the rolling back of press freedoms while attacks on free speech are escalating. This is all part of a disturbing decline toward authoritarianism here at home, including Trump's attacks on the press and his continued support for Putin. His presidency emboldened dictators, which led to more attacks on the press and his continued support for Putin. His presidency

Starting point is 00:11:45 emboldened dictators, which led to more attacks on the free press around the world. Since 1992, more than 80 journalists and media workers have been killed in Russia alone, and Gershkovich's arrest underscores Putin's disregard for international laws and norms as he further antagonizes the West. Based on Charles Yu's award-winning book, Interior Chinatown follows the story of Willis Wu, a background character trapped in a police procedural who dreams about a world beyond Chinatown. When he inadvertently becomes a witness to a crime,

Starting point is 00:12:17 Willis begins to unravel a criminal web, his family's buried history, and what it feels like to be in the spotlight. Interior Chinatown is streaming November 19th, only on Disney+. The flu remains a serious disease. Last season, over 102,000 influenza cases have been reported across Canada, which is nearly double the historic average of 52,000 cases. What can you do this flu season?

Starting point is 00:12:39 Talk to your pharmacist or doctor about getting a flu shot. Consider FluCellVax Quad and help protect yourself from the flu. It's the first cell-based flu vaccine authorized in Canada for ages six months and older, and it may be available for free in your province. Side effects and allergic reactions can occur, and 100% protection is not guaranteed. Learn more at FluCellVax.ca. In the New York Times, Michael Grinbaum said the arrests made covering Russia even more dangerous. At the beginning of the war, an exodus of news outlets began. The risk to journalists in a country where describing a war as a war was suddenly a crime was too great. But some outlets, like the BBC, quickly resumed their work.

Starting point is 00:13:20 Others, like Bloomberg, never returned. Yet even under these circumstances, Western correspondents were hopeful that their work could continue. That hope was shattered last week by the arrest of Evan Gershkovich. No matter the outcome of his case, the arrest sends an indisputable signal that foreign reporters were newly vulnerable. Gershkovich had been accredited by the Russian Foreign Ministry, a process that had continued even after the invasion of Ukraine and was thought to grant a degree of protection for Western journalists. The move against him scrambled that assumption. Now, the journal's Moscow chief has left, and the Times has moved most of its bureau out of the country. All right, that is it for the left and the right are saying, which brings us to my take.

Starting point is 00:14:10 In a war where so many people have been killed and maimed and tortured and exiled or turned into refugees, the arrest of a reporter may not seem like a big deal, but this is truly a dark turn. For decades, foreign correspondents in Russia have operated with two simultaneous assumptions. They knew they were being monitored, phones tapped, apartments watched, movements tracked, but also knew they could report relatively freely, at least compared to the Soviet era. Unlike Russian writers, who were regularly jailed for criticizing the government, foreign correspondents enjoyed more leeway. Russia wanted to be legitimized, and allowing foreign press to roam the streets aided in that goal. Oresken Gershkovich changes the dynamics. It further isolates a government who is already being

Starting point is 00:14:55 backed so far into a corner it's hard to know what they'll do next. Whether Putin is looking for sanctions relief, another prisoner swap, or simply wants to scare other reporters out of the country is hard to know. Perhaps it's none of those things. Perhaps it's all of them. Gershkovich loved Russia. The moving account from his colleagues on his reporting career there paints a picture of everything a reporter is supposed to be. His fate, trapped inside an authoritarian leader's prison system, is one of my greatest fears. Not just detainment, but unjust detainment. That Gershkovich is exactly my age, at 31, is a chilling reminder of how easily I could be in his shoes. Before his

Starting point is 00:15:32 arrest, Gershkovich was apparently reporting on the Wagner Group, a private militia key to Russia's fighting in Ukraine. He was in a manufacturing city interviewing employees of a tank factory. Russia calls this information gathering that it sees as threatening the security of the country. I call it reporting an important story. When I write about Putin, the Russian government, and the war in Ukraine, I often write about the reasons Russia is operating on a different moral plane than us or Ukraine. The obvious point is that Putin invaded a sovereign nation and wants to claim it as his own. But these actions, the absurd imprisonment of innocent people guilty of nothing more than criticizing or reporting

Starting point is 00:16:10 honestly on him, these are the morally abominable, indefensible, gross actions that demand widespread condemnation. Gershkovich isn't alone. Though the circumstances of his arrest are far more bizarre, former U.S. Marine Paul Whelan has also been rotting in a Russian jail cell for more than five years. Teacher Mark Fogel was jailed in 2021 for marijuana possession. They, like Gershkovich, need a government that will go to the end of the earth to free them and probably think of new ways to navigate this situation down the road. When Biden traded Greiner for Boot, I said it was the right bad deal, even though a straight-up swap for boot was an abject failure in diplomacy. I also said that we reinforced the

Starting point is 00:16:52 idea that holding Americans hostage is a good way to get our attention and force our cooperation. We are now seeing the result of that bargain. What's happening these days in Russia is hard to comprehend to fully wrap your head around. Jay Norbinger did his best to capture it, telling, among others, the story of a 13-year-old girl who recently drew an anti-war picture in school. Her father was arrested, and when it was discovered he had criticized the war in Ukraine on social media, he was destined for prison. His daughter was sent to an orphanage. He fled the country. He was found. He is now behind bars in Russia. an orphanage. He fled the country. He was found. He is now behind bars in Russia. This is the world Russia is operating in. Putin has made no bones about it, promising a dictatorship of the law. Gershkovich is in serious danger, and we should all hope and pray for his well-being.

Starting point is 00:17:37 He deserves to be home. If there was ever a good time for the pundits who have softballed Putin's reign to step up and speak out, now is the time. Putin is showing us his true colors every day, and there's no reason for anyone to not believe him. He will do whatever it takes to destroy his enemies, kill, torture, imprison, silence, and he will not operate under the same rules we do. Evan Gershkovich is a brave reporter, one who knew the risks of his work but surely never thought this is where he'd land. Once again, we are left in the difficult position of needing to do whatever it takes to get him home. And once we do, we'll have to go back to the drawing board on how to deter these arrests in the future, because whatever we are doing right now is not working.

Starting point is 00:18:23 Alright, that is it for my take, which brings us to your questions answered. This one is from Dominica in Napa Valley, California. Dominica said, I read a news article that NPR has pulled its accounts off Twitter after their initial and now re-designated status as a government-funded news source. Can you comment on the designations used and if there's any validity to them? I'm a longtime supporter of my local public radio station, but that doesn't make me an expert in knowing about news source funding entirely. Okay, so first, it's true that NPR receives some money from the government, but it has a $300 million budget, of which about 1% or less comes from the federally funded Corporation for Public

Starting point is 00:19:06 Broadcasting. Elon Musk first decided to label NPR as state-affiliated, which is a ridiculous moniker for a company who gets less than 1% of its cash from a federally funded program for news. Then, seemingly making it up as he went along, he backed into government-funded during an interview with a BBC journalist. But that, too, is a misleading label. The point, obviously, is to paint NPR as a non-independent entity, which is really the heart of the problem. NPR is a private, non-profit company. I don't think anyone would reasonably describe, say, Tesla as a government program, yet it received $1.3 billion, that's with a B, in incentives from Nevada alone to help build a massive battery factory there. Of course, we can split hairs about subsidies and funds and the different ways these programs work, but

Starting point is 00:19:56 Musk's empire of companies gets roughly $5 billion in government subsidies. I doubt he considers any of his very private companies as government programs. Of course, NPR also wants it both ways. It says both that it gets a tiny fraction of revenue from the government and that its federal funding is essential to its service to the American public. There's a legitimate debate about whether the government should be giving any money to NPR, but I think that is a separate issue. The real problem is that this label implies and operates in concert with the government. That's simply not true. NPR is biased to the left these days, but that is very different from being a state entity. We have a divided

Starting point is 00:20:37 government, and a few years ago, Republicans controlled every arm of the federal government. Was NPR, which was incessantly critical of that Republican trifecta, a state-affiliated media organization then? Of course not. So yes, it gets some public funds, but it is overkill to call it publicly funded or government funded or state-affiliated on Twitter. Ultimately, I think this is much more about NPR's editorial lean than anything to do with how it makes its money. All right, that is it for Your Questions Answered. A quick heads up, last week we launched our YouTube channel with a trailer for What Was Coming.

Starting point is 00:21:23 Yesterday we published our first real post, the video breaking down Republicans' parental rights bill. If you missed that podcast or prefer the video format or simply want to support our work, you can watch it and subscribe to the channel by following the link in our episode description or just looking up Tangle News on YouTube. Moving forward, we're going to continue to put out videos that are tied to topics we cover in the newsletter, but we'll be publishing more timely shorts that touch on breaking news, short breakdowns of big topics, interviews, and videos on content that is not found here in the podcast. So please do go subscribe to the YouTube channel and keep an eye on it going forward. All right. Next up is our under the radar section. Prior to a cyber symposium in 2021, MyPillow founder Mike Lindell

Starting point is 00:22:06 made an offer. If anyone could disprove his data showing that China had interfered in the 2020 election, he would pay them $5 million. The challenge, dubbed Prove Mike Wrong, drew national attention, including of one Robert Ziedman, a computer forensic expert and 63-year-old Trump supporter, who examined the data and proved not only that it didn't show voter fraud, but that it wasn't even from the 2020 election. On Wednesday, a private arbitration panel ruled that Ziedman had won the challenge and directed Lindell's firm to pay him the $5 million. The Washington Post has the story, and there is a link to it in today's episode description.

Starting point is 00:22:44 The Washington Post has the story, and there is a link to it in today's episode description. All right, next up is our numbers section. The number of journalists killed in Russia between 1992 and 2023 was 82. The number of journalists killed in the United States between 1992 and 2023 was 17. The known number of journalists who are in Russian prisons right now is 19. The number of years Vladimir Karamurza was sentenced to prison for denouncing the war in Ukraine was 25. The estimated number of Russian citizens who have fled the country since the war began is 500,000 to 1 million. The number of American expats still living in Russia is now unknown, though the State Department estimates that it is in the thousands. All right, that is it for our numbers section,

Starting point is 00:23:34 and last but not least, our have a nice day story. A physics teacher in Kenya is turning gas-powered bikes into electric ones using old laptop batteries. Paul Wawaru is a perfect example of Kenyan ingenuity, Good News Network reported. He's turning secondhand electronics destined to become waste into something useful by cannibalizing old laptop computers for battery cells that can hold a decent charge. Once he has enough of them, he combines them into packs and replaces the combustion engines on scooters and bikes. Then he founded a company called EcoMobilist, which is already selling the e-bikes. Good News Network has the story about this innovation, and there's a link to it in today's episode description. All right, everybody, that is it for today's podcast. As I mentioned,

Starting point is 00:24:19 please go check out our YouTube channel and subscribe if you haven't done that yet. I hope you all have a great weekend. We'll be right back here on Monday. Have a good one. Peace. Our podcast is written by me, Isaac Saul, and edited by John Long. Our script is edited by Ari Weitzman, Bailey Saul, and Sean Brady. The logo for our podcast was designed by Magdalena Bukova, who's also our social media manager. Music for the podcast was designed by Magdalena Bukova, who's also our social media manager. Music for the podcast was produced by Diet75. For more on Tangle, please go to readtangle.com and check out our website. We'll see you next time. When he inadvertently becomes a witness to a crime, Willis begins to unravel a criminal web, his family's buried history, and what it feels like to be in the spotlight. Interior Chinatown is streaming November 19th, only on Disney+. The flu remains a serious disease.

Starting point is 00:25:35 Last season, over 102,000 influenza cases have been reported across Canada, which is nearly double the historic average of 52,000 cases. What can you do this flu season? Talk to your pharmacist or doctor about getting a flu shot. Consider FluCellVax Quad and help protect yourself from the flu. It's the first cell-based flu vaccine authorized in Canada for ages six months and older, and it may be available for free in your province. Side effects and allergic reactions can occur, and 100% protection is not guaranteed. Learn more at FluCellVax.ca.

Tangle - Russia's arrest of Evan Gershkovich.

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