Tangle - Six months of war in Gaza.

Starting point is 00:00:00 Based on Charles Yu's award-winning book, Interior Chinatown follows the story of Willis Wu, a background character trapped in a police procedural who dreams about a world beyond Chinatown. When he inadvertently becomes a witness to a crime, Willis begins to unravel a criminal web, his family's buried history, and what it feels like to be in the spotlight. Interior Chinatown is streaming November 19th, only on Disney+. The flu remains a serious disease. Last season, over 102,000 influenza cases have been reported across Canada, which is Chinatown is streaming November 19th, only on Disney+. yourself from the flu. It's the first cell-based flu vaccine authorized in Canada for ages six months and older, and it may be available for free in your province. Side effects and allergic reactions can occur, and 100% protection is not guaranteed. Learn more at flucellvax.ca.

Starting point is 00:01:00 From executive producer Isaac Saul, this is Tangle. Good morning, good afternoon, and good evening, and welcome to the Tangle Podcast, a place where you get views from across the political spectrum, some independent thinking, and a little bit of Isaac's take. I'm your host, John Law. And today we are covering the latest on the war in Gaza and the relationship between Israel and the U.S. Before we get started, just wanted to give a quick thank you to everybody for supporting us last week while we experimented with our take, which was written by the Tangle editorial staff. Isaac is on his way back and has written today's take. Also, just a quick reminder that we are down to our final VIP tickets for the live event happening in New York City at City Winery on April 17th. If you haven't gotten your tickets, this is pretty much it, folks. This is the last chance. We're coming down to the wire here. We've got great speakers coming in, and we are looking forward to seeing

Starting point is 00:02:09 you all there. All right, with that out of the way, let's jump into today's quick hits. First up, employers added 303,000 jobs in March, far more than economists' predictions of 200,000. The unemployment rate fell from 3.9% to 3.8%. Number two, former President Donald Trump shattered fundraising records by pulling in $50.5 million in one evening at the inaugural leadership dinner in Palm Beach, Florida. in one evening at the inaugural leadership dinner in Palm Beach, Florida. Number three, a 4.8 magnitude earthquake struck White House Station, New Jersey on Friday, sending unusual tremors through New York City and down the East Coast as far as Baltimore. Number four, U.S. House and Senate leaders unveiled a bipartisan bill to regulate online privacy.

Starting point is 00:03:07 Number five, former President Donald Trump made a long-awaited statement on abortion, declining to endorse a national limit and instead saying the issue should be left up to the states. And a bonus, number six, a total eclipse will pass over 26 states in the U.S. today. It will be the last total solar eclipse visible in the U.S. for 20 years. It was six months ago today that the brutal Hamas attack on southern Israel triggered the war in Gaza. Today, Israel said it's pulling some of its troops out of southern Gaza, which has been the center of military operations for the last few months. The move brings the Israeli presence in Gaza down to one of the lowest levels of the conflict. Israeli Defense

Starting point is 00:03:54 Minister Yoav Galant said in the area where the troops spent the last four months, Hamas is no longer what he called a functioning military unit. Other Israeli officials cautioned against reading too much into the move about the future of the war. This Sunday marks six months since Hamas's attack in Israel on October 7th, and the semi-anniversary comes at a major inflection point in the resulting war. In late March, the Biden administration had signed off on billions of dollars of bombs and jet transfers to Israel. But in a tense phone call on Thursday, President Biden told Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu that future U.S. military support for Israel would depend on the implementation of

Starting point is 00:04:36 new steps to allow aid into Gaza and to protect civilians. The 30-minute call came just days after an Israeli airstrike killed seven aid workers from celebrity chef Jose Andres' organization, World Central Kitchen. Andres said the workers had been communicating with Israeli officials and were traveling through a de-conflicted zone in vehicles clearly marked with the group's name and emblem. But Israeli military officials said a drone team spotted what they thought was a weapon over the shoulder of one of the workers. Israeli officials conducted an investigation which they said found the drone team did not have enough evidence to order the strikes and deviated from standard operating procedures.

Starting point is 00:05:17 The Israeli military dismissed two senior officers and reprimanded three others. It's a tragedy, military spokesman Rear Admiral Daniel Hagari said. It's a serious event that we are responsible for, and it shouldn't have happened, and we will make sure it won't happen again. Nearly 200 humanitarian aid workers have been killed during the war, according to the United Nations, though the number killed by Israeli forces versus Hamas fighters is unknown. Over 30,000 Palestinians have died in the war since October 7th,

Starting point is 00:05:45 according to the Hamas-run Gaza Health Ministry, and UN officials also estimate that one million Gazans are at risk of starvation. Israel says it has killed over 10,000 Hamas fighters, and Netanyahu says a total victory in the war is in sight. An estimated 100 hostages are still being held in Gaza, and the Israeli war cabinet is facing increasing domestic pressure to secure their release. On March 25th, the United Nations passed a resolution demanding a ceasefire for the month of Ramadan and the release of all remaining hostages. While global calls for a ceasefire continue, Israel has already downsized its military operation, withdrawing more troops from southern

Starting point is 00:06:25 Gaza on Sunday and conducting raids and airstrikes more intermittently. Some 30,000 Israeli troops were in Gaza in January, but just one brigade remains today, accounting for an estimated 4,000 troops. Netanyahu is still promising a final mission in Rafah to root out remaining Hamas fighters, but some one million Palestinians are seeking refuge in the region and world leaders have been demanding no such operation take place. Negotiations to release the remaining hostages could include a deal to hold off on any Rafah invasion or to allow Palestinians to return to northern Gaza. At the same time, the threat of a larger regional conflict has come to fruition. Israel and Hezbollah are actively

Starting point is 00:07:05 fighting on the border of Lebanon, and Iran is promising a major retaliation after an Israeli strike on an Iranian consulate in Syria, which killed several senior leaders of Iran's Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps. U.S. officials say they are expecting Iran to attack an Israeli diplomatic facility in retaliation before the end of Ramadan. Today, we're going to share some arguments about the state of the war and U.S.-Israeli relations from the right and the left in the U.S., as well as pieces from Israeli and Palestinian writers. Then we'll give Isaac's take. We'll be right back after this quick commercial break. First, we'll start with what the right is saying. The right says Israel must remain steadfast in

Starting point is 00:07:57 its goal of completely destroying Hamas. Many say further military action is needed to neutralize the threat Hamas could pose in the future. In Fox News, David Marcus said, it's time for Israel to finish off Hamas. 21st century warfare, from Iraq to Afghanistan, from Ukraine to Gaza, is haunted by one elusive question. What does it mean to win? Our wars rarely end in ticker tape parades down canyons of heroes. Instead, they wither into dicey détente and shaky status quo, just enough security to live with. But the attack of October 7th is not something Israel can just live with, Marcus wrote. Whether they are members of the war cabinet or taxi drivers, Israelis understand one thing, that however this fighting ends, it must not end with Hamas and its backers in Iran believing they have advanced the cause of destroying Israel. After October 7th, what

Starting point is 00:08:51 winning the war against Hamas means became crystal clear. It could only be summed up by two words, emblazoned like a tattoo on the Jewish imagination, never again. A crescendo is coming for the terrible conflict in Gaza. The clock is running for Israel to act, which means its actions must be all the more decisive. The only way this conflict can truly ever end is by meting out a punishment to terrorists so severe that they dare not unleash the inhumanity of October 7th ever again. In the New York Post, Gabriel Scheinman and Michael Doran wrote, Biden is dreaming like it's 1918, but Israel is fighting like it's 1945. In 1918, the United States and its allies sought a German surrender that would neutralize its

Starting point is 00:09:33 war-making capabilities without having to transform its state and society. Leaving Germany unoccupied and its latent capacity for war intact, the armistice failed to establish a stable European order. A true solution to what contemporaries called the German question only came after World War II, Scheinman and Dorn said. The Israelis believe, correctly, that only Hamas's unconditional surrender, the dismantling of its military capabilities, and the de-Hamasification of Gazan institutions will deliver a stable order. Biden's red line amounts to a call for a negotiated end to the war that will leave Hamas in de facto control over Gaza, Scheinman

Starting point is 00:10:11 and Doran added. Thanks to its control of the border with Egypt, the official crossing in the clandestine tunnels, its domination of Gaza's economy will persist and it will rearm. Naturally, it will fight against any effort to build new order in Gaza. The Biden team's answer to this challenge, rejected by Israel's leaders and the public alike, is for Israel to install a reformed and revitalized Palestinian Authority in Gaza. But the idea the PA can or will which brings us to what the left is saying the left mourns the ongoing loss of life in gaza with some suggesting netanyahu's decisions are imperiling gazans now and israelis in the long run. Others call on Biden to take on a more active role in ending the war.

Starting point is 00:11:07 In CNN, Frida Gittes said six months since October 7th, there are no winners here. Six months after Hamas launched the deadly rampage, knowing that Israel's response would be ferocious, there are only losers in this terrible war. It's hard now to find many winners with the death toll mounting among Gazans and hunger growing deep in the Strip, and with Israeli hostages still held in captivity, perhaps in dank Hamas tunnels. For Hamas, the fact that war continues may count as a victory,

Starting point is 00:11:36 but thousands of Hamas fighters, the exact number is disputed, have been killed. But that's no victory for Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, who is under growing global pressure and besieged by protesters at home, and whose legacy will be forever darkened. As always, the greatest suffering, the biggest losers, have been civilians on both sides. Palestinians in Gaza are enduring a living nightmare, Geddes wrote. If there's any glimmer of hope in this dispiriting landscape, it is that the Young Abraham Accords, which normalized relations between Israel and some of its Arab neighbors, have survived the toughest of stress tests. That augurs well for the long run, for more stability in the region eventually.

Starting point is 00:12:15 For that to happen, however, two of many losing protagonists in this conflict, Hamas and Netanyahu, cannot remain in power. In The Hill, Max Burns asked, Has Israel's moment of reckoning finally arrived? The World Central Kitchen debacle should give the State Department pause to ask whether continued support for Israel's war advances America's interests in the region. Barring that, it should listen to the concerns of the American people, who disapprove of Israel's wartime conduct by an eye-popping 19-point margin. It isn't hard to see why. The war in Gaza is already a scene of uncoordinated carnage,

Starting point is 00:12:51 even by the standards of warfare. The Biden presidency was supposed to mark America's return to centering human rights issues in our international relations, a welcome change from Trump's nihilistic foreign policy. If Biden still wants to claim that mantle, he must speak up now about the growing catastrophe in Gaza, Burns said. The war in Gaza is threatening the very foundations of Israeli democracy. The best way for Joe Biden to support Israel is to help stop its terrifying slide

Starting point is 00:13:17 into an illiberal authoritarian state. All right, that is it for what the right and the left are saying. Now we'll take a look at what some Israeli and Palestinian writers are saying. Palestinian writers implore world leaders to intervene to stop the devastation in Gaza. Israeli writers are mixed on how the war should proceed, with some arguing a campaign of revenge will only hurt the country in the long run. In Al Jazeera, Miriam Barghouti said, Palestinians and the world must not lose hope. The feeling of numbness, of paralysis among Palestinians is one of the aims of Israeli attrition strategy. A war of attrition is

Starting point is 00:14:03 meant to create the conditions to drain, exhaust, and weaken an opponent. It is meant to diminish the capacity to fight back. Israel's goal is the emotional, moral, and mental depletion of those resisting its occupation and colonization so they lose motivation and commitment to engage and mobilize in the face of brute repression. I do not think I will ever be able to fully explain what it is like to be Palestinian, in all the shades of bruises we come in. It is not for the lack of words as much as it is for the recognition that, if I were to speak of the horrors,

Starting point is 00:14:34 I am not confident that those who listen would bear to hear all the pain embedded in the Palestinian experience, Barghouti wrote. What stands between our eradication and our survival is you, the global Charles Yu's award-winning book, Interior Chinatown follows the story of Willis Wu, a background character trapped in a police procedural who dreams about book, Interior Chinatown follows the story of Willis Wu, a background character trapped in a police procedural who dreams about a world beyond Chinatown. When he inadvertently becomes a witness to a crime, Willis begins to unravel a criminal web, his family's buried history, and what it feels like to be in the spotlight. Interior Chinatown is streaming November 19th, only on Disney+. The flu remains a serious disease. Last season, over 102,000 influenza cases

Starting point is 00:15:27 have been reported across Canada, which is nearly double the historic average of 52,000 cases. What can you do this flu season? Talk to your pharmacist or doctor about getting a flu shot. Consider FluCellVax Quad and help protect yourself from the flu.

Starting point is 00:15:40 It's the first cell-based flu vaccine authorized in Canada for ages six months and older, and it may be available for free in your province. Side effects and allergic reactions can occur, and 100% protection is not guaranteed. Learn more at flucellvax.ca. In Haaretz, Maoz Inan wrote, Hamas murdered my parents. Six months later, Israel's war of revenge threatens us all. Six months have now passed to the day since October 7th, and Israel and Palestine are trapped in a war of revenge that is ruining both sides, Inan said. The war in Gaza, as described by the Israeli government, has two objectives, to destroy Hamas and to return the hostages home. But six months into the war, it is clear that military strength will not destroy Hamas and to return the hostages home. But six months into the war, it is clear that military

Starting point is 00:16:25 strength will not destroy Hamas. Even if it were possible to kill its leaders, the ideological movement will remain, and it may well find new recruits that would now be even more motivated to harm Israelis. To destroy Hamas, the people in Gaza need to be able to imagine secure and free living conditions so they are not motivated to support a murderous organization. The way they do that is to form an international coalition of countries, including Arab countries such as Saudi Arabia and Egypt, that, together with the Palestinian Authority, will take over the civilian responsibilities of Hamas and Gaza and start rebuilding it. The Israeli government is acting against the supposed purpose of the war of destroying Hamas.

Starting point is 00:17:18 All right, that is it for what the right, the left, Israeli, and Palestinian writers are saying, which brings us to Isaac's take. A reminder that this is Isaac's opinion and I am just reading it in the first person. Every war has its inflection points, and it appears we are seeing one in Gaza right now. The strike on the World Central Kitchen volunteers will change the contours of what happens next, and it should. Some people, including WCK founder Jose Andres, believe Israel struck the WCK workers intentionally because it genuinely wants to starve the Gazan people. If you believe that Israel's goal is to make conditions there as unbearable and unlivable as possible, as Andres does, then scaring off aid workers is a good way to do that. The implications and horror of an intentional strike are self-evident and need no explanation. But believing this was an accident, as I do,

Starting point is 00:18:06 is no comfort either. In some ways, it's scarier. If Israel is capable of erring so badly as to kill seven volunteer aid workers from one of the most well-known humanitarian groups on the planet who were communicating directly with the IDF and traveling on a route that was supposed to be safe, then what other mistakes are they making? How many similar errors have gone unreported because the dead were Palestinian and the typical systems for reporting such mistakes, a free press, reliable international aid groups, or trustworthy local governments, are nowhere to be found in Gaza? We already know Israel has accidentally killed three Israeli hostages, and now they have accepted blame for this strike too, despite some military analysts initially insisting Israel wasn't responsible.

Starting point is 00:18:50 When I made the Zionist case for a ceasefire a few weeks ago, I argued that Israel was losing to Hamas not on the physical battlefield, but in the war of ideas. The one where Hamas is convincing the world that Israel is a genocidal ethnostate hell-bent on mass horror and that it needed to be eliminated. Hamas leaders apparently also believe they are winning that war. Incidents like this only aid them. Every day that this unusually complicated war goes on, one in a densely populated area with hostages and underground tunnels and hidden combatants, the likelihood of another incident like this increases. tunnels and hidden combatants, the likelihood of another incident like this increases. While the World Central Kitchen strike may have been the most politically damaging piece of news about Israel's military operations in recent weeks, it may not have been the most horrifying.

Starting point is 00:19:34 An investigation from the independent Israeli news organization 972 Plus landed a report on an artificial intelligence system. The system is called Lavender. Israeli officials are relying on it to bomb militants at night in their homes because finding them in public during the day is more difficult. The system is also prone to errors, linking tangentially related Palestinians to military groups, casting a wide net for strikes that has had very little human oversight. These stories aren't just bad PR, they're just plain bad. And Israel's problem appears to be systemic. I will continue to insist that Israel should count its victories against Hamas militants now, end its military incursion, begin a renewed peace process, and try to salvage

Starting point is 00:20:16 what is left of its global standing. A lot of my readers disagree with me, with some arguing that I do too little to emphasize the role Hamas has played in this conflict. I abhor Hamas, and I blame it for its role, but I recognize that I don't repeat that argument enough, and it's important to restate. Hamas does embed itself in civilian centers, it does kill its own people, and it does reject ceasefire deals. Hamas did take hostages, and it did spark this bout of violence with the worst single-day attack on Israel since its founding. To me, these are all perfectly valid points that can coexist with the fact that, six months later, Israel has gone beyond what most of the world and most of the U.S. finds acceptable. All you have to do is look at the global reactions, the U.N., votes for ceasefire, or public polling in America to see this. To be absolutely clear, Hamas is a genocidal organization who knew exactly what would happen

Starting point is 00:21:11 when it conducted its attack in October and is probably getting exactly what it wanted. I genuinely believe Hamas leaders have no real interest in the cause of Palestinian freedom, but instead are hoping to stoke a regional conflict that can wipe out Israel in a massive war and increase Iran's power in the Arab world. Many of those Hamas leaders are effectively Arab oligarchs living on the outside of this conflict, giving interviews from places like Qatar. They will continue to be insulated from the consequences of their decisions in this war. The fact that Gazans are starving while Hamas still has funds to shoot rockets into Israel, or Iranian proxies still have the money to fight Israel on nearly every front should tell you

Starting point is 00:21:50 everything you need to know about their priorities. Meanwhile, of the 250 hostages originally taken by Hamas, at least 36 have been confirmed dead, about half have been released, and another 100 still remain in Gaza. I don't think anyone should expect Israel to relent without the certainty that all the remaining hostages will be freed. Hamas must release the remaining hostages as part of any ceasefire deal, and, given its current advantages, Israel should take any ceasefire deal that involves the release of those hostages. That brings us back to where we started. Nothing about Hamas's actions excuses or absolves Israel for its wrongs. And that brings us back to where we started. Nothing about Hamas's

Starting point is 00:22:32 actions excuses or absolves Israel for its wrongs. We should hold Israel to a high standard because it is an ally who receives our government's military funding, full-throated support, and because Israel insists it has the most moral army in the world. Ultimately, what happens next is up to Netanyahu, his war cabinet, and Hamas. But the U.S. can try and exert significant leverage to get the hostages home and end this spate of violence. I think they should turn the screws even tighter on Netanyahu and apply maximum pressure to bring an end to what we're seeing, which I genuinely believe is making Israel, Jews, and Palestinians all less safe.

Starting point is 00:23:15 I hope the end of violence is imminent, but I'm less optimistic than I've ever been. We'll be right back after this quick break. All right, that is it for Isaac's take, which brings us to your questions answered. This question comes from Michael in Odenton, Maryland. Michael says, due to an interesting twist, I'm going to be the next president. Don't worry about how or those pesky constitutional criteria. Those details are not relevant. You get first dibs on any position in the executive branch you would like. If necessary, the Senate will confirm you. No worries there. Which one would you like? Why? What are the new strategies for your office? All right, so I'm going to read Isaac's answer here,

Starting point is 00:24:00 which is, I love this question, and I think I have two different answers. My first might surprise you. Vice President. Why? Well, in this hypothetical, I'm still me, Isaac, which means I don't have any aspirations to pursue some kind of long-term political career. So my first thought goes to, what's the cushiest job with the most access, the least responsibility, but still a great deal of influence? Being vice president, getting to be in the room to bend the president's ear and still hear all the secrets sounds pretty nice. So does $235,000 a year salary. Realistically, it's a job that would also mean I get to travel all across the globe and meet world leaders, which seems enormously engaging, and I'd get to take on pet

Starting point is 00:24:41 projects. I'd potentially get to break ties on consequential votes in the Senate, and I'd get to take on pet projects. I'd potentially get to break ties on consequential votes in the Senate. And I'd probably have the most freedom to carve out my own agenda items. As for new strategies, I'm not sure I'd pursue any other than acting without having to worry about my political future. That'd be novel and liberating, and I think I could throw my weight around in ways other vice presidents haven't. My second answer is director of national intelligence. And the reason for that is simple.

Starting point is 00:25:06 It's the role where I would learn the most about the things that are the hardest to find out the truth about. There's so much we don't know about the way our intelligence agencies work, and so much information I'd love to access that only the DNI gets to see. It would give me a unique ability to really see a part of American governance that is so hard to pull the curtain back on. Plus, you know, I'd go straight to the UFO files. More seriously, I also think I could introduce a new strategy for my office that actually

Starting point is 00:25:31 focused on eliminating wasteful spending and increasing transparency. We live in an era of over-classification and over-secrecy, and as DNI, I'd do my best to show Americans more of the work that goes into the day-to-day life of intelligence agencies, which I think could help grow trust and appreciation for that kind of work. Of course, increasing transparency might be one of the most commonly broken promises of anyone who ends up in a position with a lot of access, but it'd certainly be my intent. All right, that's it for your questions answered, which brings us to our Under the Radar story. President Biden could face ballot eligibility issues in Ohio, according to ABC News. Legal counsel for Frank LaRose, the Secretary of State in Ohio, called out an apparent conflict

Starting point is 00:26:18 in Ohio law with the Democratic National Committee's nominating process. Right now, the Democratic National Convention is scheduled to convene on August 19th, 12 days after the August 7th deadline to certify a presidential candidate in Ohio. That could put Biden's eligibility at risk. No Biden on the ballot could impact the hotly contested Senate race between Democrat Sherrod Brown and Republican Bernie Moreno. ABC News has this story, and there's a link in today's episode description. All right, and next up is our numbers section. The approximate number of MK-82 bombs and small diameter bombs the U.S. sent to Israel in late March is 2,000. The number of F-35A fighter jets and engines sent to Israel is 25, worth approximately $2.5 billion.

Starting point is 00:27:08 The percentage of Americans who said they approved of Israel's military action in Gaza in November of 2023 is 50%, and that's according to Gallup. The percentage of Americans who said they approved of Israel's military action in Gaza in March 2024 is 36%. The percentage of Americans who say they sympathize with Israelis more than Palestinians in this conflict is 31%, according to a new survey from Pew Research. The percentage of Americans age 65 plus who sympathize more with Israelis is 47%. The percentage of Americans ages 18 to 29 who sympathize more with Palestinians is 33%. ages 18 to 29 who sympathize more with Palestinians, is 33%. All right, and last but not least, our Have a Nice Day story. Russell Cook, a 27-year-old from West Sussex, England,

Starting point is 00:28:00 just completed the daunting task of running the entire length of the African continent from south to north, a journey of over 10,000 miles that crossed the Sahara Desert in 352 days. Cook, who is nicknamed the hardest geezer, endured an armed robbery, visa issues, and a temporary hospitalization in order to complete his journey and raise over £700,000 for charity. I'm pretty tired, Cook told reporters. The BBC has this story, and there's a link in today's episode description. All right, everybody, that is it for today's podcast. As always, if you'd like to support our work, you can go to retangle.com and become a member. We just crossed over 100,000 subscribers to the free daily newsletter.

Starting point is 00:28:42 It would be amazing if we could do the same with paid subscribers. We really appreciate all the support, paid or otherwise. Though the small monthly fee that you pay does go a long way in supporting Tangle. We are independent and every dollar counts. So if you haven't already, again, please sign up, show some love. Don't forget, we got a live event coming up in New York City. For those of you who don already, again, please sign up, show some love. Don't forget, we got a live event coming up in New York City. For those of you who don't have tickets, a few VIP left, get them while you can. Isaac will be returning to the mic tomorrow. It's been a great time hosting, and I will talk to you all soon. Until then, have a great one. Peace.

Starting point is 00:29:45 Peace. Also our social media manager. Music for the podcast was produced by Diet 75. If you're looking for more from Tangle, please go to readtangle.com and check out our website. Based on Charles Yu's award-winning book, We'll be right back. web is family's buried history and what it feels like to be in the spotlight. Interior Chinatown is streaming November 19th, only on Disney+. The flu remains a serious disease. Last season, over 102,000 influenza cases have been reported across Canada, which is nearly double the historic average of 52,000 cases. What can you do this flu season? Talk to your pharmacist or doctor about getting a flu shot. Consider FluCellVax Quad and help protect yourself from the flu. It's the first cell-based flu vaccine authorized in Canada for ages 6 months and older,

Starting point is 00:30:50 and it may be available for free in your province. Side effects and allergic reactions can occur, and 100% protection is not guaranteed. Learn more at FluCellVax.ca.

Tangle - Six months of war in Gaza.

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