Tangle - SPECIAL EDITION: Dean Phillips is running for president.

Episode Date: October 30, 2023

Rep. Dean Phillips (D-MN). The third-term Minnesota congressman announced that he will be running in the Democratic primary, issuing an unusual challenge to a sitting president of his own party. We we...re able to get an exclusive interview with Rep. Phillips  just hours after his announcement, which we've shared a preview of after "My take" in today's podcast. For the full interview you can check it out on our YouTube channel here.You can read today's podcast ⁠⁠here⁠⁠ and our You can also check out our latest YouTube video, a sizzle reel of our first ever Tangle Live event from August 2023, here.Today’s clickables: Quick hits (1:24), Today’s story (3:23), Right’s take (6:24), Left’s take (9:42), Isaac’s take (13:19), Preview of Dean Phillips Interview (16:58)You can subscribe to Tangle by clicking here or drop something in our tip jar by clicking here.Our podcast is written by Isaac Saul and edited by Jon Lall. Music for the podcast was produced by Diet 75. Our newsletter is edited by Bailey Saul, Sean Brady, Ari Weitzman, and produced in conjunction with Tangle’s social media manager Magdalena Bokowa, who also created our logo.--- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/tanglenews/message Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Starting point is 00:00:00 Based on Charles Yu's award-winning book, Interior Chinatown follows the story of Willis Wu, a background character trapped in a police procedural who dreams about a world beyond Chinatown. When he inadvertently becomes a witness to a crime, Willis begins to unravel a criminal web, his family's buried history, and what it feels like to be in the spotlight. Interior Chinatown is streaming November 19th, only on Disney+. The flu remains a serious disease. Last season, over 102,000 influenza cases have been reported across Canada, which is Chinatown is streaming November 19th, only on Disney+. yourself from the flu. It's the first cell-based flu vaccine authorized in Canada for ages six months and older, and it may be available for free in your province. Side effects and allergic reactions can occur, and 100% protection is not guaranteed. Learn more at flucellvax.ca.
Starting point is 00:01:00 From executive producer Isaac Saul, this is Tangle. Good morning, good afternoon, and good evening, and welcome to the Tangle podcast, the place we get views from across the political spectrum, some independent thinking, and a little bit of my take. I'm your host, Isaac Saul, and on today's episode, we've got something a little different, something a little special. We're going to be talking about Representative Dean Phillips, the Democrat from Minnesota, and his decision to run for president against President Biden in the Democratic primary. And so we're going to have a shortened podcast a little bit. So we're going to do today's topic with the left and the right are saying in my take, and then we're going to point you to our interview with Representative Dean Phillips, which we just published on YouTube. It was a exclusive 15 minute sit down we got with him.
Starting point is 00:02:00 He only gave CNN like five or 10 minutes. So we're really pumped about this get. And so we're going to appoint everyone to go listen to that interview today on YouTube. Before we jump in, though, as always, we're going to start off with some quick hits. First up, Israel has continued its airstrikes in the Gaza Strip and also executed a small ground invasion. A wider-scale invasion is still expected. Phone and internet services were partially restored over the weekend after being knocked out on Friday. Meanwhile, more than 30 aid trucks with food, water, and medical supplies entered Gaza on Sunday. Number two, former Vice President Mike Pence ended his campaign for president citing poor poll numbers and a lack of donations.
Starting point is 00:02:51 Number three, following a series of drone strikes and rocket attacks against forces in the region, the United States struck two facilities in Syria that were linked to Iranian-backed militias. Number four, Blake Masters, a Republican who lost his bid for the Senate in 2022, is planning to run for a House seat in Arizona. And number five, a judge ordered the state of Georgia to redraw its congressional maps, ruling that maps drawn by Republicans illegally diluted the Black vote. mode. A surprising development in the 2024 presidential race. The unexpected candidacy of Democratic Minnesota Congressman Dean Phillips. He is now the first elected official to take on President Joe Biden for the Democratic
Starting point is 00:03:45 nomination. The 54-year-old Phillips credits the 80-year-old president with saving the country, but he says it is time to pass the torch or face an emergency next November. Phillips' decision comes as polls show voter concerns about the economy and the president's age. My father gave his life to this country, gave his life. A million Americans have given their life to protect us, our freedoms, everything that we love. And we are in a position right now where we may throw that away if we make the wrong choices. And I think the country is ready for change. The third term Minnesota congressman, a Democrat, announced that he will be running in the Democratic primary, issuing an unusual challenge to a sitting president of his own party. We were able to get an
Starting point is 00:04:32 exclusive interview with Representative Phillips just hours after his announcement, which we've shared after my take in today's podcast. In 2018, Phillips won Minnesota's third district by unseating five-term Republican Eric Polson, marking the first time in nearly 60 years that a Republican lost the 3rd District. A self-described moderate and member of the Problem Solvers Caucus, Phillips said he is running because he doesn't believe President Biden can beat Donald Trump and senses there is a desire among voters for an alternative. He's making affordability, mental health, addiction, and passing legislation to solve the border crisis key components of his campaign. Phillips, 54, was born in Minnesota and inherited his stepfather's
Starting point is 00:05:15 Phillips Distilling Company empire. He's also the grandson of advice columnist Pauline Phillips, famously known by the Dear Abby moniker. During his 2018 campaign for Congress, he became well-known for driving a gelato truck in campaign ads and events. He also ran the gelato maker Talenti. Phillips has served on the board of Temple Israel in Minneapolis and has owned other businesses, including the Penny's Coffee Chain. With an estimated net worth of $124 million, he's one of the wealthiest members of Congress. We fund more for fighting than we do for feeding, he said in his campaign announcement. Corporations in the well-off, including me, enjoy more favorable tax treatment than hard-working American families. Phillips was the subject of much media attention for his confrontational
Starting point is 00:05:59 response to some of his Republican colleagues shortly after the January 6th riots at the U.S. Capitol. This is because of you, he shouted at Arizona Republican Representative Paul Gosar. Phillips also drew attention earlier this year after he stepped down from his role as co-chair of the Democratic Policy and Communications Caucus, the DPCC, citing his disagreement with the party consensus that Biden should go unchallenged in the primary. I think President Biden has done a spectacular job for our country, Phillips said in an interview with CBS, but it's not about the past. This is an election about the future.
Starting point is 00:06:39 Democrats have decided to hold the first presidential primary of 2024 in South Carolina instead of New Hampshire. However, New Hampshire has refused to comply and is planning to hold its primary before South Carolina's. Biden's name won't appear on ballots in the Granite State because of this dispute between the party and state officials, and Phillips is planning to use that to his advantage, hoping to gain momentum by winning the state early. Biden voters will have to write his name in. Today, we're going to break down some arguments from the left and the right about Phillips' campaign and then my take. Also, we'll be sharing our exclusive interview with Phillips from Saturday morning.
Starting point is 00:07:24 First up, we'll start with what the right is saying. The right doesn't think Phillips has a meaningful chance of beating Biden, but they say his campaign will highlight Democratic voters' reluctance to support the president's re-election bid. Some think Biden should treat Phillips as a serious challenger, even if he doesn't pose a significant threat. Others say Phillips' campaign is driven by ego and destined to fail. The Wall Street Journal editorial board wrote about why Phillips is taking on Joe Biden. For months, no serious Democrat had the temerity to take on Mr. Biden, possibly for fear of weakening him. Yet the party's voters aren't exactly satisfied. One national poll had Mr. Biden at 58%, Robert Kennedy Jr. at 15%, and Marianne Williamson at 7%.
Starting point is 00:08:06 Nearly a quarter of Democrats went for two gadflies, and RFK Jr. has since bolted to run it as an independent. If this isn't a plea for better options, what is, the board said. Mr. Phillips isn't likely to win the nomination, but his candidacy will be a proxy for the Democratic desire for more choices. If Mr. Phillips can build momentum in the Granite State, perhaps there's still a chance of making the Democratic primary interesting in a way that could help the party in November 2024. Or, if not, at least some Democrat had the guts to try, since many of them are equally worried about Mr. Biden's health, polling, and prospects against Mr. Trump, even if Mr. Phillips is the only one who will say so.
Starting point is 00:08:44 prospects against Mr. Trump, even if Mr. Phillips is the only one who will say so. In the Washington Post, Henry Olson said Biden should take Phillips' campaign seriously, not literally. Why should Biden care about Phillips? It's simple. Lots of Americans, including many Democrats, don't want the president to run again. A recent Yahoo YouGov poll shows this clearly. Only 55% of Democratic voters said they wanted Biden to be the Democratic nominee in 2024. 36% said they wanted someone else, while another 14% said they were not sure. Those are terrible numbers for any incumbent, Olson wrote. Phillips, therefore, need only present himself as a receptacle for unease about Biden. Most voters who cast their ballots for him probably won't actually
Starting point is 00:09:25 want him to win. Instead, they will use him to send a clear message to the party, anyone but Biden. The question is, how many people are willing to take that option, Olson asked. If Biden can't put Phillips away easily in the first four states, expect Super Tuesday to be a Donnybrook. In the Washington Examiner, Christopher Timoldi criticized Phillips' pointless primary challenge to Biden. The campaign may be one of the most desperate cries for attention in contemporary United States politics, he wrote. Phillips claims that he has to run against Biden to stop Trump, but that's as logical as his decision to announce a campaign. How and why would one decide to run for president if that person thought the incumbent was doing a spectacular job in office? This doesn't make any sense. Phillips' decision to run for president
Starting point is 00:10:10 is fueled by narcissism. This is political theater at its worst. Everyone should question his true motives because whatever they are, they are not about realistically challenging Biden for president. Dean Phillips has zero chance of becoming president of the United States or winning the 2024 Democratic nomination. It is a pointless campaign with no real chance of success. All right, that is it for what the right is saying, which brings us to what the left is saying. The left is mostly critical of Phillips' campaign, suggesting it's a weak challenge to Biden without a persuasive message. Some criticize Phillips for implicitly entering the race because of Biden's age, but refusing to say so. Others think Phillips could provide a needed wake-up call to Biden to start campaigning more aggressively. In New York Magazine, Ed Kilgore said Biden's age is Dean Phillips' only issue. Based on Charles Yu's award-winning book, Interior Chinatown follows
Starting point is 00:11:13 the story of Willis Wu, a background character trapped in a police procedural who dreams about a world beyond Chinatown. When he inadvertently becomes a witness to a crime, Willis begins to unravel a criminal web, his family's buried history, and what it feels like to be in the spotlight. Interior Chinatown is streaming November 19th, only on Disney+. The flu remains a serious disease. Last season, over 102,000 influenza cases have been reported across Canada, which is nearly double the historic average of 52,000 cases.
Starting point is 00:11:42 What can you do this flu season? Talk to your pharmacist or doctor about getting a flu shot. Consider FluCellVax Quad and help protect yourself from the flu. It's the first cell-based flu vaccine authorized in Canada for ages six months and older, and it may be available for free in your province. Side effects and allergic reactions can occur, and 100% protection is not guaranteed. Learn more at FluCellVax.ca. 100% protection is not guaranteed. Learn more at flucellvax.ca.
Starting point is 00:12:12 The two themes underlying Phillips' rationale for his candidacy are that he fears Biden is unelectable and that it's time for a new generation of leaders. That adds up to a single implicit argument. Biden is too old, Kilgore wrote. So Phillips is going to say it for them to the cheers of the very MAGA folks he claims to be singularly motivated to defeat. His candidacy, magnified by conservative media, will guarantee that so long as it lasts, Biden's age and alleged feebleness will never be out of the public eye for a moment, and it will be given greater credibility by his partisan and ideological identification with the incumbent. Phillips' secondary message that Democrats are a bunch of cowards who know Biden is a doddering relic but don't have the guts to do anything about it will also find an
Starting point is 00:12:49 avid audience full of amplifying bullhorns. Phillips appears aware of all these risks, yet he doesn't really offer much in the way of evidence that he can produce any outcome that makes the damage he's doing to the future 2024 nominee worthwhile. In Politico magazine, Jack Schaefer described Phillips' campaign as a primary challenge like no other. Breaking from historical precedent is Dean Phillips, a three-term representative to Congress from Minnesota with name recognition near zero, who has staked out no distinguishing political position, who counts no actual congressional accomplishments, and who's about to run against Biden, all without any real disagreements with him. But because no other Biden worshiper with presidential ambitions is currently willing to enter the contest and pursue the same
Starting point is 00:13:34 policies that have earned Biden such low approval numbers, Phillips thinks he should campaign for the job. If Phillips would simply level with voters and say what many think he's saying, that we should turn the page on Biden because in the 30 months since he tweeted his unalloyed praise of him, the president has lost a step or two, then Biden could at least respond directly. Perhaps he could perform a set of mental gymnastics and clear a cognitive minefield to prove his readiness for another four years, Schaefer said. But Phillips, who's yet to make his mark in politics, Schaefer said, but Phillips, who is yet to make his mark in politics, lacks the presidential fortitude to go there. In The Messenger, David Richards argued that Phillips' presence in the race will be good for Joe Biden. Phillips is relatively unknown, but unlike earlier challenges
Starting point is 00:14:16 such as Kennedy before his switch to independent or Marianne Williamson, who ran unsuccessfully in 2020, Phillips represents a mainstream Democratic point of view politically. He represents a viable alternative to Biden, one that many in the party might be okay with, Richards said. Biden's weak polling numbers reveal his own uphill climb to a second term. Phillips offers at least one thing that Biden does not have. Phillips is 54, and Biden already is the oldest serving president. Biden has yet to campaign in any meaningful way, and why should he? He has been running against a weak-to-non-existent Democratic field in the nomination process. There is little incentive for him to run hard at this point.
Starting point is 00:14:56 This is where Phillips' entry to the race could, believe it or not, help Biden, Richards wrote. Having a campaign in the primaries would get Biden out in front of voters again and may help him, in the long run run win over more of the American public. All right, that is it for the left and the right are saying, which brings us to my take. So unlike other news organizations, we have an editorial policy of not endorsing candidates in elections, so you won't find any of that here. But I will tell you what I think about Phillips. First, he strikes me as a thoughtful and direct person. My conversation with him, which you are about to hear if you want, I was struck by the simplicity of his argument. A lot of
Starting point is 00:15:45 Democrats worry about Biden's capacity to serve a second term, and they should be given an alternative to vote for. The major difference between Phillips and people like Robert F. Kennedy Jr. or Cornel West is that he is going about this in a way that guarantees he won't directly undermine Biden's chances in the general election. Rather than run a third-party or independent campaign, he's trying to beat Biden in a primary. His odds of succeeding are obviously low, just as low as anyone's running as a third party candidate. But for a Democrat who wants to challenge Biden, this is a sensible way to do it. I also like the notes he hits. He's a member of
Starting point is 00:16:20 Congress willing to work with the other side, as evidenced by his membership in the Problem Solvers Caucus, his ability to win a historically Republican district, and his consistently stated desire to work with Republicans. When he talks about addressing immigration, gun violence, the culture of division and affordability, or deaths of despair like overdoses and suicides, I think his messaging will resonate with a wide range of voters. He also just seems like a decent person. In profiles of him, Phillips is consistently described as someone who is genuinely trying to listen to voters and consider perspectives he might not have. While other politicians are working to gerrymander their districts or stake out never-ending
Starting point is 00:16:58 terms in office, he's expressing support for term limits and bucking his own party when he thinks they're wrong. That kind of stuff is a shortcut to earning my respect. My biggest gripes with him are mostly about his resume and the timing of his decision. Phillips is quick to acknowledge his own wealth, but one could pretty easily argue that the business acumen he boasts is simply a product of a massive inheritance. Similarly, I'm wary of his experience. A few years in Congress is nothing to sneeze at, but as with other candidates I've said were inexperienced, I have no idea if the time he's
Starting point is 00:17:30 spent in office is enough for the most difficult, complicated, important job in the country. Finally, I'm curious about this. Does he think he can actually win? The strategy of his campaign has some merit when a New Hampshire-rived-the-media wave that comes, but he'll have to generate a lot of the right kind of attention. Calling him a long shot is probably the understatement of the year. Realistically, Phillips has basically no shot, which makes me wonder if his campaign is really a cynical attempt to advance his future in politics, perhaps 2028, or a Senate run, or something else. If he's so adamant that Biden is a spectacular president who's done a great job, it's hard to reconcile how he can also be so sure the president or a Senate run or something else. If he's so adamant that Biden is a spectacular president who's done a great job, it's hard to reconcile how he can also be so sure the president has no
Starting point is 00:18:10 shot at winning re-election. That's not to say he doesn't have any answers for this stuff. In our interview, I asked him about his experience, what makes him different from Biden, and how he thinks he can actually defeat an incumbent president in a primary. That's something that has never happened since the modern primary election system was put in place in 1972. What has happened is that incumbents who face a strong primary challenge often go on to lose the general election. In today's special edition, we're publishing a truncated podcast, and I'm asking you to go listen and watch our exclusive interview with Phillips on our YouTube channel. We're going to share a brief preview of that interview now, and then you can go find the full thing by going to
Starting point is 00:18:50 youtube.com and looking up Tangle News. Representative Phillips, thank you so much for coming on. I appreciate it. Good to be with you. All right, so I just want to jump right in. I think the obvious question here is, why are you doing this? We have a Democratic president in office. What's behind this campaign that you're launching today? Yeah, we have a wonderful Democratic president in office, a man I admire, a man whose policies I voted for and helped market as a member of the House leadership team. But we also have a Democrat in office who is looking like he's going to lose to Donald Trump. And that's my mission. It was my mission in 2016 when I promised my daughters that I would do something. I ran for
Starting point is 00:19:29 Congress. It was my mission after January 6th, being trapped in the House chamber because of the insurrection he inspired. And now it's my mission once again to ensure that he does not return to the White House. And it somehow has made me unpopular amongst Democrats because I happen to be the only one saying the quiet part out loud, which is all the data indicates that President Biden is going to lose to Donald Trump. It's true across the country. It's true in the battleground states. The most recent approval numbers are the lowest he's had in his presidency, some of the lowest in presidential history. And it's pretty clear we need choices. Democrats should be free to make a choice. They should have options. That's what democracy with a small d is.
Starting point is 00:20:11 And that's why I'm doing this, not out of spite, not in opposition to President Biden, but I'm running for the future because we need it now. So I want to talk about the Dean Phillips versus President Biden primary. What are the differences between you two that voters should know about? I mean, like you said, you've been very supportive of his agenda. This is not meant to be a big oppositional, you know, uprising against the president. So why should voters pick you over him? Well, it is not going to be an oppositional uprising. It is going to be
Starting point is 00:20:45 a respectful campaign. I want to demonstrate to the country how we should all be campaigning, which is not to divide and to be divisive, to be mean spirited, to be aggressive, to undercut. We should be lifting the country with our campaigns. I run campaigns of joy. I've succeeded. I flipped a district that had been Republican for 60 years. I beat a five-term incumbent who had won by 14 points. I beat him by 12, and I won my last election by 20. Not by being mean, aggressive, rude, lying, like so many do right now. I did it just the opposite. I listen. I engage voters of all perspectives. And I do it in a joyful manner that I think is contagious in a country that really needs more of it. And that is how I run campaigns.
Starting point is 00:21:27 Now, the other news is I don't have a lot of name recognition. I know that in politics, that's not such a bad thing, because as I introduce myself to people, if they like what they hear, if they feel inspired by what I will bring to the White House, they'll spread the word for me. And I believe that's exactly what we're on a mission to do right now. It's not an easy task. It's a steep slope. But it's one that I think is the most important in my lifetime. And if we do it well, I have great confidence that we'll succeed and fundamentally change executive leadership in the United States of America.
Starting point is 00:21:57 We sure need it. All right, guys, that is it for our preview of our interview with Representative Dean Phillips. If you want the full thing, please be sure to go to our YouTube channel by looking up Tangle News on YouTube and then subscribe to the channel, like the video, leave a comment, whatever you want. That way you can teach YouTube that you like our stuff and we can spread the word about Tangle. We'll be right back here same time tomorrow. Have a good one. Peace. Have a good one.
Starting point is 00:22:24 Peace. Our podcast is written by me, Isaac Saul, and edited by John Long. Our script is edited by Ari Weitzman, Bailey Saul, and Sean Brady. The logo for our podcast was designed by Magdalena Bukova, who's also our social media manager. Music for the podcast was produced by Diet75. For more on Tangle, please go to readtangle.com and check out our website. We'll see you next time. travel a criminal web, his family's buried history, and what it feels like to be in the spotlight. Interior Chinatown is streaming November 19th, only on Disney+. The flu remains a serious disease. Last season, over 102,000 influenza cases have been reported across Canada, which is nearly double the historic average of 52,000 cases. What can you do this flu
Starting point is 00:23:39 season? Talk to your pharmacist or doctor about getting a flu shot. Consider FluCellVax Quad and help protect yourself from the flu. It's the first cell-based flu vaccine authorized in Canada for ages 6 months and older, and it may be available for free in your province. Side effects and allergic reactions can occur, and 100% protection is not guaranteed. Learn more at FluCellVax.ca.

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