Tangle - SPECIAL EDITION: The Trump-Harris debate.

Starting point is 00:00:00 Based on Charles Yu's award-winning book, Interior Chinatown follows the story of Willis Wu, a background character trapped in a police procedural who dreams about a world beyond Chinatown. When he inadvertently becomes a witness to a crime, Willis begins to unravel a criminal web, his family's buried history, and what it feels like to be in the spotlight. Interior Chinatown is streaming November 19th, only on Disney+. The flu remains a serious disease. Last season, over 102,000 influenza cases have been reported across Canada, which is Chinatown is streaming November 19th, only on Disney+. yourself from the flu. It's the first cell-based flu vaccine authorized in Canada for ages six months and older, and it may be available for free in your province. Side effects and allergic reactions can occur, and 100% protection is not guaranteed. Learn more at flucellvax.ca.

Starting point is 00:01:00 From executive producer Isaac Saul, this is Tangle. Good morning, good afternoon, and good evening, and welcome to the Tangle podcast, a place we get views from across the political spectrum, some independent thinking, and a little bit of my take. a place we get views from across the political spectrum, some independent thinking, and a little bit of my take. I'm your host, Isaac Saul, and on today's episode, we're going to be talking about the first Trump-Harris debate. That's right. It was a pretty interesting night. Before we get in, I want to give you a quick heads up. In case you missed it, we did our first ever live stream during the debate on YouTube last night. If you look up Tangle News on YouTube and go to our page, you can find a live stream of the debate where I'm giving in real time commentary, responding to some people who are leaving questions in the chat, and also talking during

Starting point is 00:01:55 some of the commercial breaks and stuff. It was really fun. I had a blast. We're definitely going to do stuff like this more often. And the comments were super positive. So I felt like people really liked it. And if you haven't watched the debate yet, you should go watch it on our channel. There's a link to it in our episode description. But again, if you just look up Tangle News on YouTube, you can find it. So for now, since this is a little bit of a special edition, I'm going to send it over to John for today's main topic and some of what the right and the left is saying. And then I'm going to come back for a fact check, and then I'm going to share some opinions from me and some folks on our staff who had some commentary about what we saw last night. Thanks, Isaac, and welcome, everybody. Here are your quick hits for today.

Starting point is 00:02:44 First up, the U.S. will recognize the 23rd anniversary of the September 11th attacks today, with memorials being held across the country. Number two, the Consumer Price Index, a broad measure of inflation, rose 0.2% in July, while the core CPI rose 0.3% over economists' expectations. The 12-month inflation rate is now 2.5%, the lowest since February of 2021. Number three, SpaceX successfully launched its Polaris Dawn mission yesterday, which will take a four-person civilian crew 870 miles above Earth. That is the furthest any human has traveled since the Apollo moon missions. Number four, former Senator Kelly Ayotte won the Republican primary in New Hampshire's race for governor. She'll face Manchester Mayor

Starting point is 00:03:30 Joyce Craig in the general election to replace Governor Chris Sununu, who opted not to run for another term. And number five, Missouri's high court ruled a proposal that would enshrine abortion rights in the state constitution will be on the ballot in november presidential candidates kamala harris and donald trump meeting on the debate stage for the first time kamala harris let's have a good debate. Thank you. The vice president walking to the former president's podium to shake his hand in Philadelphia. Donald Trump left us the worst unemployment since the Great Depression. Donald Trump left us the worst public health epidemic in a century. She's a Marxist. Everybody knows she's a Marxist. Her father's a Marxist professor in economics, and he taught her well.

Starting point is 00:04:31 On Tuesday evening, Vice President Kamala Harris and former President Donald Trump faced off for the first debate at the National Constitution Center in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. It was the second presidential debate of the 2024 campaign, but the first one since Harris replaced President Joe Biden as the Democratic Party's presidential nominee. It was also the first face-to-face meeting of any kind between the two. When they came on stage, Harris walked over to Trump, shook his hand, and introduced herself. The 90-minute debate was moderated by World News Tonight anchor and managing editor David Muir and ABC News Live prime anchor

Starting point is 00:05:05 Lindsay Davis. For weeks prior to the event, the two sides sparred over the rules. Harris' campaign pushed for microphones to be on throughout the debate, while Trump's team said they agreed to the same rules that were in place for the first face-off, which included muting one candidate's microphone when it was the other's turn to speak. Both sides ultimately agreed to similar rules as the Biden-Trump debate in June. Muted microphones, candidates behind podiums, no pre-written notes or props on stage, two commercial breaks, and no live audience. The debate spanned many topics, including the economy, abortion, immigration, foreign wars, and the 2020 election, but contained very little discourse over the questions posed by the moderators. Harris interjected a few times while Trump was speaking,

Starting point is 00:05:46 which drew criticisms from the former president. She also baited Trump repeatedly, mocking his crowd sizes and insisting that his former colleagues do not trust him to be in the White House. Trump pushed for the last word several times, sparring with and speaking over the moderators, who fact-checked him four times during the debate. Harris was not fact-checked a single time by the moderators, who fact-checked him four times during the debate. Harris was not fact-checked a single time by the moderators. Several polls taken after the debate showed that most viewers

Starting point is 00:06:10 believe Harris to be the winner. According to ActBlue, the donation aggregator for Democratic candidates, the party raised about $24 million in the three hours after the debate began. There was no corresponding report for Republican donations. Immediately after, the Harris campaign claimed victory and requested a second debate. In a statement, the campaign said that the debate showed voters have a choice between moving forward with Kamala Harris or going backward with Trump. Conversely, Donald Trump claimed he won, adding that Harris wanted a second debate because she knew she had lost. Speaking to Sean Hannity, Trump said that the moderators made the debate three against one. Today, we'll go over what the left and the right are saying about the debate, including some fact-checking of the candidates' remarks through the night,

Starting point is 00:06:53 and then Isaac's take. We'll be right back after this quick commercial break. Based on Charles Yu's award-winning book, Interior Chinatown follows the story of Willis Wu, a background character trapped in a police procedural who dreams about a world beyond Chinatown. When he inadvertently becomes a witness to a crime, Willis begins to unravel a criminal web, his family's buried history, and what it feels like to be in the spotlight. Interior Chinatown is streaming November 19th, only on Disney+. The flu remains a serious disease. Last season, over 102,000 influenza cases have been reported across Canada, which is nearly

Starting point is 00:07:41 double the historic average of 52,000 cases. What can you do this flu season? Talk to your pharmacist or doctor about getting a flu shot. Consider FluCellVax Quad and help protect yourself from the flu. It's the first cell-based flu vaccine authorized in Canada for ages six months and older, and it may be available for free in your province. Side effects and allergic reactions can occur, and 100% protection is not guaranteed. Learn more at FluCellVax.ca. All right, first up, let's start with what the left is saying. The left thinks Harris's debate performance was as strong as Trump's was weak.

Starting point is 00:08:19 Some say Harris's strategy effectively put Trump on the defense. Others caution that the debate may have done little to move undecided voters. The Washington Post editorial board said Harris won the debate on both tone and substance. The two candidates in Tuesday's presidential debate walked onto the stage with dueling imperatives. Kamala Harris needed to show voters who she is, her character, her record, and most important, her vision. Donald Trump needed to

Starting point is 00:08:45 hide the same things about himself. Only one succeeded, the board wrote. Ms. Harris presented a positive vision for a nation that, despite its flaws, is in remarkably good shape, employing the country to escape from the viciousness that has defined its recent politics. Mr. Trump, by contrast, depicted a fictional United States that is a failing nation teetering on the brink of World War III. True enough, not every plan Ms. Harris has proposed makes sense, but she got the better of Mr. Trump simply by explaining why his policies would be worse. His would explode the debt more than hers. He would double down on tariffs that would stoke inflation on all sorts of goods Americans buy, claiming falsely that foreign countries pay the cost, the board said. Tuesday night might be best remembered by Mr. Trump's

Starting point is 00:09:29 outbursts, yet Americans would do well to remember what happened on the other side of the stage. Ms. Harris won on tone and substance. In Bloomberg, Erica D. Smith suggested Harris knew exactly how to rattle Trump. Harris managed not only to introduce herself, her values, and her policies to voters, but also managed to put Trump on the defensive in a way that no other opponent has done in a debate. The split screen told the story. On one side was Trump, squinting, glowering, and snarling through his sentences. On the other side was Harris, alternately smiling and incredulous over whatever falsehood Trump happened to be delivering at the moment, Smith wrote. By the end of the debate, Trump was reduced to

Starting point is 00:10:09 angrily sputtering conspiracy theories and nonsensical phrases on topics ranging from abortion to the economy, even immigration. On abortion, Trump refused to commit to vetoing a national abortion ban if one landed on his desk as president. He also again insisted that he won the 2020 presidential election. He repeated again insisted that he won the 2020 presidential election. He repeated his claims that millions of immigrants were flooding the country and taking Americans' jobs, Smith said. Meanwhile, Harris touted her plans to build more housing, make health care more affordable, and support small businesses. Most debates don't change the trajectory of presidential elections, especially in an America so politically and culturally polarized.

Starting point is 00:10:45 But this one just might. In CNN, Stephen Collinson wrote, Harris bests Trump in debate, but there's no guarantee it will shape the election. From Harris's point of view, the night could hardly have gone better. She came across as energetic and brimmed with a positive future vision. Trump glowered and ranted and blasted America as a failing nation and seemed off his game. The vice president, who has sometimes struggled in spontaneous situations, delivered the most imposing performance

Starting point is 00:11:12 of her political career, Collinson said. The vice president's performance seemed more likely to expand her coalition. Trump, meanwhile, didn't make much effort to change perceptions about his dystopian intentions among the key swing state voters who will decide this election. While Democrats were euphoric after Harris's performance, partisans often judge a debate based on their own political preferences. Even if he loses ground after the debate, Trump has long had the advantage to the two top issues

Starting point is 00:11:38 in the election, the economy and immigration. With many voters still awaiting the benefits of the post-pandemic economic rebound, it's not certain that any debate will be a decisive factor for their vote, Collinson wrote. Trump's dark messages on immigration and crime might be hyperbolic, but they've proved to be potent in the past. There's also the chance that shock events at home or abroad in the next two months could tip the balance. All right, that is it for what the left is saying, which brings us to what the right is saying. Many on the right criticized the debate moderators, suggesting their fact checks were biased against Trump. Some say Harris failed to deliver any substance in her responses to key issues.

Starting point is 00:12:30 Others say Trump's performance was disappointing. In The Federalist, John Daniel Davidson argued, the debate was so biased it was divorced from reality. Trump should refuse to do another. The fact checks were flying, but only in one direction. As expected, ABC News moderators David Muir and Lindsay Davis were criminally biased, making the debate effectively three-on-one against Trump and practically amounting to an in-kind donation to the Harris campaign, Davidson wrote. The lying and gaslighting were so brazen from Harris and the fact-checking from Muir and Davis so lopsided they failed to even once push back or correct any of Harris's obvious falsehoods that the entire spectacle eventually took on an air of unreality. At one point, Harris recited a litany of the most obvious, thoroughly debunked lies about Trump, from the fine people on both sides comment on Charlottesville,

Starting point is 00:13:16 to the bloodbath remark about the auto industry, to claiming he incited the U.S. Capitol riot on January 6th, Davidson wrote. With Trump, it is of course much different. Muir and Davis routinely inserted themselves into the debate under the guise of fact-checking the former president, even on trivial matters. What was different about this debate, though, was how brazen the bias was, how unconcerned ABC seemed to be even with presenting the appearance of journalistic integrity or fairness. In The Hill, Derek Hunter called the debate just another night of Kamala Harris dodging substantive questions.

Starting point is 00:13:50 Kamala Harris was trying to simultaneously reintroduce herself and redefine herself after more than two decades in public office. It did not go well. If you came to this debate looking for specifics, you went away empty-handed. Neither candidate is known for those and neither tried to give them, Hunter wrote. Harris whiffed badly on the very first question. She was asked about

Starting point is 00:14:09 those, the majority of Americans, who do not feel as though they are better off now than they were under Trump. She didn't even address the question, reverting instead to her prepared speech about her vague policy proposals. At the end of the day, there were no knockout punches. Not that Harris didn't seem desperate to land one. She spent much of her time trying to take credit for things Democrats sees popular, all the while pretending she hasn't been vice president for four years, Hunter said. Harris needs to show something to the public to give them reason to think she would be different than the last four years, and she failed to do it. She didn't even try. National Review's editors wrote about Trump's missed opportunity. The moderators vigorously, at times misleadingly, fact-checked Trump.

Starting point is 00:14:52 They asked him more pointed questions than they asked her, the editor said. But nobody forced Trump to go down the many blind alleys he did. He didn't have to defend the January 6th rioters, claim that he won in 2020, or get in a dispute about crowd sizes, or for that matter, name check Sean Hannity and Victor Orban as fans of his. Anyone cheered by those comments is already an active supporter of Trump. Harris did not have a good answer when asked whether Americans are better off than they were four years ago, or what she would do differently from Biden, or why she had flip-flopped on so many issues, or even, and here we should give credit to the moderators for this question, whether she would draw any limits on abortion. But Trump did more to raise doubts about himself than about her.

Starting point is 00:15:35 The race is still close, and her defects are glaring, but he did neither himself nor his supporters any favors. All right, let's head over to Isaac for some fact-checking and his take. All right, that is it for what the left and the right is saying. Before we jump in to my take and our take from the staff, I want to just do a few fact checks for each of the candidates because I think this is really important. So first of all, the moderators last night issued four fact checks. All four were against Donald Trump. They had zero fact checks for Kamala Harris. So we're going to start with her with six claims she made last night and then some fact checking of those claims. First, Harris said, Let's remember Charlottesville, where there was a mob of people carrying tiki torches spewing

Starting point is 00:16:28 anti-Semitic hate. And what did the president then say at the time? There were fine people on each side. Okay, the fact check here is that Trump did say there were very fine people on both sides at the 2017 rally protesting the planned removal of a Confederate statue. But this was in reference to protesters and counter-protesters of the statue removal. In the same speech, Trump clarified that neo-Nazis and white nationalists attending the rally should be condemned totally. Snopes has famously rated this claim that Harris made as false. Next up, Harris said Donald Trump, the candidate, has said this election there will be a bloodbath if the outcome of this election is not to his liking. The fact check here is that Trump made this comment in the context of a speech on the loss of U.S. auto manufacturing jobs to foreign countries. The

Starting point is 00:17:14 full quote was, quote, we're going to put 100% tariff on every single car that comes across the line and you're not going to be able to sell those cars if I get elected. Now, if I don't get elected, it's going to be a bloodbath for the whole, that's going to be the least of it. It's going to be able to sell those cars if I get elected. Now, if I don't get elected, it's going to be a bloodbath for the whole, that's going to be the least of it. It's going to be a bloodbath for the country. That'll be the least of it. But they're not going to sell those cars. End quote. It's fair to say that Trump saying that's going to be the least of it introduces ambiguity as to what exactly he meant. But the specific line in question was very clearly a reference to the auto industry. Next up, Harris said, and as of today, there is not one member of the United States military who is in active duty in a combat zone in any war zone around the world the first time this century. This is a bizarre claim. Americans have been fighting Iranian

Starting point is 00:17:59 Bakhputi rebels since October 7th in intense naval combat in the Red Sea, and we still have troops in Syria, Jordan, and Iraq who are routinely attacked by militants. Three died in Jordan earlier this year. Next up, Harris said, on January 6th, 140 law enforcement officers were injured and some died. This is true, but it could be construed as though police died on January 6th. In reality, five police officers who had served at the Capitol on January 6th. In reality, five police officers who had served at the Capitol on January 6th died in the days and weeks after the riot. However, the causes of their deaths are very relevant. For instance, one who was attacked by the mob died of a stroke the day

Starting point is 00:18:35 after, while four of the five died by suicide. Next up, Harris said Donald Trump left us the worst unemployment since the Great Depression. Unemployment was 6.4% in January of 2021, which was the highest since the Great Recession, but not the highest since the Great Depression. Both the 2009 and 1982 recessions reached unemployment levels at or above 10%. However, unemployment did top 14% briefly during the pandemic, which is an all-time high. Next up, she said, understand if Donald Trump were to be re-elected, he would sign a national abortion ban. Trump has never supported a national abortion ban and has never indicated he would sign one. He would also need Congress to do

Starting point is 00:19:15 so, which seems unlikely. Harris makes this claim mostly by referencing Project 2025, which Trump has repeatedly disavowed and distanced himself from. All right, that is it for Harris. Now I want to do some fact checks of some of Trump's claims. First, when discussing a group of Haitian migrants that have moved into a town in Ohio, Trump said, In Springfield, they're eating the dogs, the people that came in. They're eating the cats. They're eating the pets of the people that live there.

Starting point is 00:19:43 Okay, so Trump and other Republicans have repeatedly made this claim, but so far there is no evidence of household pets being eaten by Haitian migrants or anyone else in Ohio. As one of the moderators noted shortly after Trump made this comment, Springfield police and officials have said, there have been no credible reports or specific claims of pets being harmed, injured, or abused by individuals within the immigrant community. Earlier this week, the Springfield News Sun reported that the claim seems to have originated from a local Facebook group. However, there have been reports, including police reports,

Starting point is 00:20:14 that these migrants are hunting local geese or ducks, and tensions about migration in Springfield have been rising in recent weeks. Next up, Trump said, We have inflation like very few people have ever seen before, probably the worst in our nation's history. We were at 21%, but that's being generous because many things are 50, 60, 70, and 80% higher than they were just a few years ago. This is false. Inflation hit 9% in the middle of 2022, a 40-year high, and annualized inflation for all of 2022 was 6.5%. But inflation hit 12.5% in 1980, 13.3% in 1979, and 18.1% in 1946. As for the claim that some goods and services are 50, 60, 70, and 80% higher than a few years ago, it's unclear what exactly Trump is referring to.

Starting point is 00:21:02 The closest reference might be energy commodities, which rose approximately 45% between 2021 and 2022, but no major consumer price category saw increases of anywhere near that magnitude. All right, next up, Trump said, in Afghanistan, for 18 months, we had nobody killed. Trump has made this claim before, but according to the Department of Defense's Operation Freedom Sentinel database, U.S. military deaths in Afghanistan were recorded every year since 2015, except 2022. Reuters has a helpful explanation of what time periods Trump could be referring to here and why the claim is still not accurate. Next up, Trump said on January 6th, I said, I'd like to give you 10,000 National Guard or soldiers, and they rejected me. Nancy Pelosi rejected me. This is not true. A final report by the bipartisan select committee to investigate the

Starting point is 00:21:50 January 6th attack determined that there was no evidence Trump ever issued this order. Trump's own acting Secretary of Defense, Christopher Miller, testified under oath that this did not happen. However, Miller did say that Trump floated the idea of having National Guard troops to protect his supporters from left-wing radicals. Next up, Trump claimed repeatedly that Democrats allow abortion after birth. There is no state where killing a baby after birth is legal. His claim stems from some Democrats opposing any legal restriction on abortion, and they're from comments made by Virginia Governor Ralph Northam, a Democrat and a doctor. Northam once said that there are rare late pregnancy cases when fetuses are non-viable,

Starting point is 00:22:31 but doctors resuscitate the baby and then have, quote unquote, a discussion with the mother about what to do. Next up, Trump said crime in this country is through the roof and we have a new form of crime. It's called migrant crime, And it's happening at levels that nobody thought possible. The FBI, they were defrauding statements. They didn't include the worst cities. They didn't include the cities with the worst crime. It was a fraud. Okay, the fact check here is that violent and property crime rates have been decreasing for decades, with violent crime falling 49% between 1993 and 2022, including large decreases in robbery, aggravated assault, and murder or non-negligent manslaughter. In 2020, however, the U.S. murder rate had its largest single-year increase on record, but the rate fell sharply in 2023. The claim that the FBI was

Starting point is 00:23:18 issuing fraudulent crime reports seems to be a reference to its recent quarterly crime report, which was incomplete. Further, it's true that data from some cities aren't included in the FBI crime data. However, most cities compile their own crime data and their rates largely reflect the trends reported by the FBI. On migrant crime, according to NBC News, under President Biden, over 112,000 migrants with criminal backgrounds have been apprehended at the border, compared with over 63,000 under Trump. The number of people who are on the terrorist watch list stopped at the border has largely stayed the same, with an estimated 1,400 encounters under Trump and 1,800 under Biden. All right, that is it for some of the fact checks from last night. Felt good to get some of that off my chest. And now I just want to get into a little bit of my personal

Starting point is 00:24:05 commentary here. We went into last night with a few questions we were trying to answer, and I'm just going to give some brief responses to them. We have this much more fleshed out in today's newsletter if you're interested in that, including with takes from Ari Weitzman, our managing editor, and Will Kabak, one of our editors on staff. One of the questions was what moment is being over-discussed that doesn't really matter. My answer to that is the Haitian migrants eating back one of our editors on staff. One of the questions was what moment is being over discussed that doesn't really matter. My answer to that is the Haitian migrants eating people's dogs. There's a real debate to be had about immigration. The conversation that we had at the debate last night is not that conversation. And I don't think in the end this is going to matter very much. It's

Starting point is 00:24:41 just kind of internet fodder and people are going to have fun making their memes and joking about it and all that stuff. But it's not really that important, except that it illuminates that Trump is sometimes susceptible to falling for internet rumors, basically. We also asked the question, what moments told us the most about each candidate? This was not a particularly high-minded affair, in my opinion. We didn't get into any wonky policy stuff. But I do think Harris showed that she's strongest on the issue of abortion. I think she basically hammered Trump on it, and he did not have a very good response. And she probably connected with a lot of voters when she did that.

Starting point is 00:25:18 That, to me, felt like her best moment and maybe a North Star for her in terms of campaigning. For Trump, I think his strength was in calling out Harris, changing her position, and focusing on the line about why didn't she do this in the last four years. I think that is his most effective attack line, just over and over ask the question, she's promising these things, where has she been the last three and a half years? Why didn't this administration get them done? And Harris has not really produced a great answer to those questions. So Trump did that a good bit last night. He also got really off topic a good bit, but he also took all the bait that Harris

Starting point is 00:25:51 laid out for him last night on everything from crowd sizes to what his former military members have said about him. I mean, it was a very rough night for him in terms of staying focused. A lot of people wrote in asking me what I thought of the moderators. So it's really hard. Their job's really hard. After live streaming the debate last night with my own commentary, I can tell you fact-checking live is really, really difficult. I thought that it was a little bit absurd that they didn't fact-check Harris a single time. As we just listed, she told a lot of lies, a lot of fibs or represented stuff in inaccurate ways throughout the night. They fact-checked her zero times and they fact-checked Trump four times, which, yeah, it was uneven. And there's no doubt about that. But also, Trump bulldozed the moderators

Starting point is 00:26:36 last night. He spoke way more than Harris did. And I think on the whole, he didn't lose because of the moderators. And I do think he lost the debate, which I'm about to talk about. I think he lost because he talked a lot and he hung himself with his own words and he looked a little bit ridiculous with some of the comments he made. And that wasn't the moderator's fault. So you can blame them to a degree. You can call it their bias. But I think Trump did a lot of damage to himself last night without their help. And that brings us to the final question, which is who won the debate? I think Harris won. I think anyone telling you that Trump won or that she didn't is blinded by partisan bias. And I'm sorry

Starting point is 00:27:10 to say that. After the first 15 minutes where she seemed pretty nervous and a little all over the place, she basically got the better of every exchange with him, or at least brought it to a stalemate, even on immigration, an issue she's really weak on. Focus groups of voters seem to agree. Democrats raise record money during and after the debate. And then Harris immediately asked for another one while Trump basically demurred. So generally speaking, here's the tell on things like this. Every committed Trump supporter I know or follow was criticizing the moderators. Only a few said Trump won. Every moderate I follow or talk to said Harris won, and every liberal I know or talk to said Harris destroyed him. So to me, that's the clear sign

Starting point is 00:27:51 of a Harris win on the night. For what it's worth, plenty of conservatives or right-of-center pundits and journalists said the same. Fox News' Brit Hume said Harris was composed, she was prepared, she kept her cool, she saw advantages and she took them. She baited him successfully. She came out ahead in this, in my opinion, no doubt. Chris Wallace compared the debate to the thrashing Biden took in June. Senator Lindsey Graham, the Republican from South Carolina, called it a disaster. This is not stuff that happens when Trump wins. It's also worth calling out that Trump once again refused to admit that he lost the 2020 election. He did lose. This is, to a lot of Americans, his most dangerous rhetoric. A lot of

Starting point is 00:28:31 moderates and Republicans will vote against him on this issue alone, and he dove headfirst back into the kind of stolen election claims that have turned so many voters off the last four years. All of this being said, I also think it's pretty likely this entire debate is out of the news cycle in 48 hours. I suspect it'll move a few voters toward Harris. And while that will matter, this wasn't the kind of debate like Biden's performance in June that is going to fundamentally change the race. All right, that is a lot of info I just threw at you. I'm going to send it back to John to wrap up the pod. But again, if you didn't watch the debate, go to our YouTube channel, Tangle News on YouTube and do that. And we'll be back here same time tomorrow. Have a good one.

Starting point is 00:29:13 We'll be right back after this quick break. Based on Charles Yu's award-winning book, Interior Chinatown follows the story of Willis Wu, a background character trapped in a police procedural who dreams about a world beyond Chinatown. When he inadvertently becomes a witness to a crime, Willis begins to unravel a criminal web, his family's buried history, and what it feels like to be in the spotlight. Interior Chinatown is streaming November 19th, only on Disney+. The flu remains a serious disease. Last season, over 102,000 influenza cases

Starting point is 00:29:47 have been reported across Canada, which is nearly double the historic average of 52,000 cases. What can you do this flu season? Talk to your pharmacist or doctor about getting a flu shot. Consider FluCellVax Quad and help protect yourself from the flu.

Starting point is 00:30:00 It's the first cell-based flu vaccine authorized in Canada for ages six months and older, and it may be available for free in your province. Side effects and allergic reactions can occur, and 100% protection is not guaranteed. Learn more at flucellvax.ca. Thanks, Isaac. For the sake of length, we're actually going to skip over our reader question and our under-the-radar story and head straight to our numbers section. The number of days until the election is 54. The total time former President Donald Trump spoke during the debate was 43 minutes and 3 seconds, according to The New York Times.

Starting point is 00:30:40 The total time Vice President Kamala Harris spoke during the debate was 37 minutes and 41 seconds. The time Trump spent attacking Harris during the debate was 12 minutes and 54 seconds. The time Harris spent attacking Trump during the debate was 17 minutes and 25 seconds. The time President Joe Biden spent attacking Trump during their debate in June was 12 minutes and 52 seconds. The time Trump spent talking about immigration during the debate was 4 minutes and 52 seconds. The time Trump spent talking about immigration during the debate was 4 minutes and 34 seconds, the most of any issue he discussed. The time Harris spent talking about the economy during the debate was 6 minutes and 6 seconds, the most of any issue she discussed.

Starting point is 00:31:17 The percentage of likely voters who said they feel they need to learn more about Trump is 9%, according to a New York Times-Siena poll released before the debate. And the percentage of likely voters who said they feel they need to learn more about Harris is 28%. All right, and last but not least, our Have a Nice Day story. For the second time in six weeks, Lego is making nice news headlines. By 2032, Lego is seeking to create bricks entirely out of renewable and recycled plastics. In the short term, the company is looking to make 50% of its bricks from these materials by 2026. These goals have been announced as part of a broader green push

Starting point is 00:31:55 by the company. LEGO has also expanded their replay program that provides individuals with free shipping to donate old bricks. The Guardian has this story, and there's a link in today's episode description. All right, everybody, that's it for today's episode. As always, if you'd like to support our work, please go to retangle.com and sign up for a membership. And as Isaac mentioned before, if you missed yesterday's debate, you can head over to our YouTube channel and watch the full replay of the debate with Isaac's commentary, followed by an interview with journalist Zed Jelani. And if you haven't yet already, please make sure to subscribe to our YouTube channel. We're going to be bringing you more live streams, on-the-ground reporting, interviews, and in-depth coverage on this channel.

Starting point is 00:32:40 We'll be right back here tomorrow. For Isaac and the rest of the crew, this is Jon Law signing off. Have a great day, y'all. Peace. Our podcast is written by me, Isaac Saul, and edited and engineered by John Law. The script is edited by our managing editor, Ari Weitzman, Will Kabak, Bailey Saul, and Sean Brady. The logo for our podcast was designed by Magdalena Pokova, who is also our social media manager. Music for the podcast was produced by Diet 75. And if you're looking for more from Tangle, please go to readtangle.com and check

Starting point is 00:33:16 out our website. We'll see you next time.

Tangle - SPECIAL EDITION: The Trump-Harris debate.

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