Tangle - SPECIAL EDITION: The vice presidential debate.

Episode Date: October 2, 2024

The vice presidential debate. On Tuesday evening, vice presidential candidates Ohio Sen. JD Vance (R) and Minnesota Gov. Tim Walz (D) faced off in the only scheduled vice presidential debate of the 2024 election. The debate provided a stark contrast to the recent presidential debates, with the two candidates delivering fleshed out policy positions, repeatedly finding common ground, offering respectful disagreements, rarely interrupting each other, and avoiding personal attacks.You can read today's podcast⁠ ⁠⁠here⁠⁠⁠, our “Under the Radar” story ⁠here and today’s “Have a nice day” story ⁠here⁠.Check out Episode 6 of our podcast series, The Undecideds. You can subscribe to Tangle by clicking here or drop something in our tip jar by clicking here. Help share Tangle.I'm a firm believer that our politics would be a little bit better if everyone were reading balanced news that allows room for debate, disagreement, and multiple perspectives. If you can take 15 seconds to share Tangle with a few friends I'd really appreciate it. Email Tangle to a friend here, share Tangle on X/Twitter here, or share Tangle on Facebook here.Take the survey: Who do you think won the vice presidential debate? Let us know!Our podcast is written by Isaac Saul and edited and engineered by Jon Lall. Music for the podcast was produced by Diet 75. Our newsletter is edited by Managing Editor Ari Weitzman, Will Kaback, Bailey Saul, Sean Brady, and produced in conjunction with Tangle’s social media manager Magdalena Bokowa, who also created our logo. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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From executive producer Isaac Saul, this is Tangle. Good morning, good afternoon, and good evening, and welcome to the Tangle podcast, the place we get views from across the political spectrum, some independent thinking, and a little bit of my take. I'm your host, Isaac Saul, and we are doing a special edition today on the vice presidential debate last night, J.D. Vance and Tim Walz. Man, it was cordial, informative, substantive, a very, very interesting, surprising night. We're going to break it down, share some views from the left and the right. And then I'm going to do my take and then some fact checks,

because this is a special podcast edition. And it was debate night. So we've got some stuff I want to call out as well. Without further ado, I'm just going to pass it to John and I'll be back for my take. Thanks, Isaac. And welcome, everybody. Here are your quick hits for today. First up, Iran fired roughly 180 ballistic missiles at Israel in what it said was retaliation for Israel's recent strikes against Hezbollah in Lebanon. Israel said it will respond forcefully to the incident. Shortly before the missile attack began, seven people were killed and eight others were injured in a stabbing and shooting perpetrated by two suspected terrorists in Tel Aviv, Israel. Number two, the death toll from Hurricane Helene has risen to 162 people, and President Biden

reported that around 600 people remain unaccounted for. Search and rescue operations are ongoing, but hundreds of roads are still impassable in North Carolina and other parts of the Southeast. Number three, U.S. job openings increased in August after decreasing in June and July, while hiring fell and layoffs declined. Number four, California Governor Gavin Newsom signed a bill banning legacy admissions at private colleges and universities in the state. And number five, Mexico's Claudia Sheinbaum was sworn in as the country's first female president. Just 34 days to go until election day. Minnesota Governor Tim Walz and Ohio Senator J.D. Vance taking the stage at the sole vice presidential debate hosted by CBS.

With events still unfolding and uncertainty in the Middle East, the two sparred over who offers stronger leadership at this critical moment. On Tuesday evening, Vice Presidential Candidate Senator J.D. Vance from Ohio faced off in the only scheduled Vice Presidential debate of the 2024 election at the CBS Broadcast Center in Manhattan. The debate provided a stark contrast to the recent presidential debates, with the two candidates delivering fleshed-out policy positions, repeatedly finding common ground, offering respectful disagreements, rarely interrupting each other, and avoiding personal

attacks. CBS News hosted the debate, which was moderated by CBS Evening News anchor and managing editor Nora O'Donnell and FaceD Donation moderator and chief foreign affairs correspondent Margaret Brennan. The debate lasted 90 minutes, with two four-minute commercial breaks and a two-minute closing statement for each candidate. Unlike the two presidential debates in this cycle, the candidates' microphones were not muted during an opponent's answer, creating a few instances of crosstalk, though moderators reserved the right to mute the microphones, which they did once. Vance and Walls were not allowed pre-written notes, and each candidate was given two minutes to answer each question, two minutes to respond to their opponents, a one-minute rebuttal, and an optional additional minute at the discretion of the moderators.

The candidates also agreed to forego fact-checking from the moderators. However, O'Donnell and Brennan repeatedly fact-checked Vance during the debate. The debate covered a range of topics, including foreign policy, climate change, immigration, abortion, gun violence, housing, health care, and the 2020 election. Throughout the night, Vance repeatedly pivoted to the strength of the economy under President Donald Trump. During one of the debate's more memorable moments, Vance answered an abortion question by stating that Republicans have got to do so much better to earn back the trust of Americans on the issue. Rather than focus on the morality of abortion, he discussed the need to address issues women face that prevent them from having stable environments in which to raise

children. Conversely, Tim Walz frequently pivoted to health care and housing as two areas where he and Vice President Kamala Harris plan to invest more resources to help with issues of affordability for the middle class. One of Walz's most memorable moments came late in the debate while discussing the 2020 election, when he asked Vance who won the last presidential election and called his response a damning non-answer. A majority of pundits considered Senator Vance to be the night's winner, while snap polls of debate watchers showed a virtual tie. A CBS YouGov poll found Vance won 42-41%, and a CNN SSRS poll had Vance winning 51-49%, while a Politico Focal Data poll found it was 50-50.

Today, we'll get into what the right and the left are saying about the debate, and then Isaac's take. We'll be right back after this quick commercial break. quick commercial break. Working in the trades is intense. It can be stressful and painful. Some guys use drugs and alcohol to cope. But when we ask for help, or we see someone struggling with addiction, our silence speaks volumes. See how you can help or get help at Canada.ca slash ease the burden. A message from the Government of Canada. Based on Charles Yu's award-winning book, Interior Chinatown follows the story of Willis Wu,

a background character trapped in a police procedural who dreams about a world beyond Chinatown. When he inadvertently becomes a witness to a crime, Willis begins to unravel a criminal web, his family's buried history, and what it feels like to be in the spotlight. Interior Chinatown is streaming November 19th, only on Disney+. All right, first up, let's start with what the left is saying. Many on the left praised the respectful tone of the debate while noting that Vance seemed to exceed expectations. Some argue that neither candidate won on substance.

Others say Vance's answer on January 6th overshadowed the rest of his performance. The Washington Post editorial board called it a polite night of substantive debate. In a welcome shift from the recent presidential face-off, the vice-presidential candidates maintained a measured and respectful tone throughout the evening. They didn't bait each other with personal attacks, but rather focused on policy. There were even moments of grace and generosity, the board said. It also gave Americans a chance to evaluate the two major party tickets on substance. Here, Mr. Vance put a more attractive sheen on a Trump-style populism. Mr. Walls only occasionally mustered a forceful critique in response. Mr. Walls' worst moment

came when he used a gusher of words to try and wash away a tall tale about witnessing the Tiananmen Square massacre. An apology would have been easier. His best moment, however, was particularly meaningful. It occurred when he challenged Mr. Vance to acknowledge that Mr. Trump had lost the 2020 election, the board wrote. Coming at the end of a refreshingly civil conversation, the moment reminded Americans of the presidential race they have, with Mr. Trump at the top of the GOP ticket. race they have, with Mr. Trump at the top of the GOP ticket. In MSNBC, Alexander Nazarian said neither Vance nor Walls brought much substance to the debate. Vance and Walls spoke to their respective audiences. I doubt they did much to convince undecided voters, and they did nothing

at all to inspire. At the end of the night, I was left with just one question. Is this the best we've got? Nazarian wrote. Vance declined to walk back the lies he has promulgated about Haitian migrants in Springfield, Ohio, and his thoughts on school shootings were crushingly meager. We have to make the doors lock better, he said, with what appeared to be a straight face. I can't say that Minnesota Governor Tim Walz did all that much better. He doesn't creep me out the way Vance does, with his undercooked musings on demography, but he doesn't thrill me either, Nazarian wrote. He looked nervous, and his voice sounded thin.

Asked about a lie he told about being in Hong Kong during the protests in Tiananmen Square in Beijing in 1989, Walls stammered through a largely incoherent response. In a suit, on stage, he is just like another politician, and not an especially adept one at that. In Slate, Jim Newell wrote, J.D. Vance won the debate, but Tim Walls got the clip. It's not that Walls was terrible, he was fine. Vance, though, was in control for most of the night, more nimble and polished in the nuts and bolts of debate, while able to present his case for a second Trump administration in a way that didn't scare the children for most of the night, Newell said. The key failing of Wall's was not a lost train of thought here or there, or his obvious jitters and nerves at the debate's outset.

It was missed opportunities that allowed Vance to get away with his presentation of the Trump campaign and its desires for the country as common sense for your family. At the very end of the debate, though, Wall seemed to get it and was able to produce Vance's worst moment of the night and a defining takeaway for the Harris campaign to use. In this case, Walls was paying attention when Vance, asked about Trump's efforts to steal the 2020 election, did his usual cool and collected dissembling of it all as a big misunderstanding. Walls pounced, and effectively, Newell wrote, Walls may have been on his back foot the whole night, but in the end, Walls gotounced. And effectively, Newell wrote. Walls may have been on his back foot the whole night, but in the end, Walls got the clip.

All right, that is it for what the left is saying, which brings us to what the right is saying. The right views Vance as the clear winner, suggesting that he came out ahead on nearly every topic. Some registered surprise at how poorly Walls performed. Others say Vance established himself as the future GOP standard bearer. National Review's editors wrote about J.D. Vance's big night. J.D. Vance didn't win the debate with Tim Walls by being polished and unflappable. He won it on substance. This was true even on issues where Democrats usually have an edge. On health care, Walz backed himself into defending

the individual mandate, the least popular part of Obamacare, and one he seemed unaware had been repealed. Vance was better informed as well about the abortion law that Walz signed in Minnesota, the editor said. Walz did not make headway on the issues where Republicans have a lead, either. Vance effectively prosecuted the Biden-Harris administration for abandoning successful Trump policies, and Walls had no answer. Vance also pointed out that wages grew smartly during Trump's time as president. Only on the 2020 election did Walls find and exploit an opening. Trump's lies about having won the election in a landslide are indefensible, but glossing over them is a price Vance has been willing to pay for his political career. He was reduced to arguing that Trump deserves credit for eventually leaving office in peace,

the editors wrote. Vance made as strong a case for Trump as could be made, a better one, in fact, than Trump typically makes for himself. In PJ Media, Matt Margolis said, Walls got spanked. Make no mistake about it, J.D. Vance crushed Tim Walls in this debate. It wasn't even close. Governor Walls was grossly outmatched. Even with both moderators helping him out, it wasn't enough for him to compete with Senator J.D. Vance, Margolis wrote. Vance was calm, cool, and sharp. He had good answers for the questions, knew his facts, and repeatedly hit on the right points, including the fact that Kamala Harris is the sitting vice president who claims to have all these great ideas to fix problems in this country, but for whatever reason,

isn't. I thought Tim Walz was going to do a lot better. Walz was clearly nervous and rattled at times and made some pretty embarrassing gaffes, Margolis added. I knew J.D. Vance would do well tonight, but I honestly underestimated him. Normally, I don't expect vice presidential debates to matter, but I think this one might. I think J.D. Vance really connected with average Americans tonight, and Kamala Harris can't be happy with her running mate right now.

In the Washington Examiner, Jeremiah Poff suggested Vance has staked his claim as the future of the GOP. The first sign that Senator J.D. Vance was in complete control of the vice presidential debate was when he delivered the best answer that any Republican has ever given on climate change, Poff said. Vance showed exactly why former President Donald Trump chose him to be his vice presidential nominee. He was articulate and even-keeled and showed a keen ability to explain the nuances of the Trump campaign's policy platform in a manner easily accessible to voters while brilliantly dismantling the indefensible record of Vice President Kamala Harris. With his all-star performance, Vance has staked his claim as the future of the Republican Party, regardless of whether or not the Trump ticket is victorious in November. He has effectively and brilliantly articulated the conservative populism that Trump has promised

to deliver in a way that no one before him has, Poff wrote. While the debate on Tuesday was about each candidate's efforts to support their respective running mate at the top of the ticket, Vance has made a statement that, four years from now, he should continue the Trump legacy and carry the party's standard into the future. All right, let's head over to Isaac for his take. All right, that is it for what the left and the right are saying, which brings us to my take. So I am just going to share 18 thoughts on what we saw last night, because there's just way too much to cover in a kind of traditional my take pod. Number one, I will spoil the ending first. Vance won the debate on substance. He seemed to know the issues better. He was a more polished communicator, and it often felt like he got the better of Walls in their exchanges, even when Walls was defending a

position more popular with Americans. Post-debate polling showed a pretty even split in who Americans viewed as the winner, so it's not as if Walls got trounced, but most of the focus groups I saw broke for Vance. That's what I felt watching it, and I think it's the most telling indicator. I'm skeptical this debate will impact the race at all, but Democrats must be glad they are not running against Vance atop the ticket. Number two, despite the strength of his night, for a lot of voters, especially those in the middle, Vance's ending to the evening will spoil everything else. That Vance still can't say that Trump lost the 2020 election, that his political future quite literally depends on keeping that charade alive,

is both frightening and disappointing. It's equally disorienting to hear him defend the obviously incorrect claim that Trump oversaw a peaceful transfer of power. Personally, I found that exchange to be the most frustrating thing either candidate did all night. Number three, what a nice debate. I mean, really, it was substantive. It was cordial. It was illuminating. It was downright Midwestern. I felt like I had been transported to a different era. There were even some bizarre moments where it was easy to imagine a Vance Walls 2028 ticket. I genuinely forgot what it was like to watch politicians actually debate policy issues and sometimes agree with each other. It was brain

food. How refreshing. The entire debate reminded me how my own politics are all mixed up and confused and don't neatly fit into any bucket because I found so many arguments each candidate made compelling. Not for nothing, but Vance and Walls both seem to know much more about policy issues than their running mates, which makes for an odd dynamic. Number five, Vance delivered the best answer and the best messaging that I've heard from any Republican on abortion since Roe v. Wade fell. It was a compassionate, pro-family position that will connect with moderates on abortion and even some people in the pro-choice camp. Yet, it's undeniable that this is a hard pivot to the center from the Trump-Vance ticket.

Vance's past comments on abortion are much different than what he's saying now, which he explains by arguing he is responding to voters. I'm unconvinced his personal views have changed as I think he is ideological and principled on this issue. My best guess is that Republicans are reacting to the numbers. The public polls show they are clearly losing on this issue, but the internal polling must be awful for them to tack this far to the middle. Number six, Tim Walz looked like he might vomit on himself for the first five minutes of the debate. All week there were reports about how nervous he was to enter the national political stage, and for the first portion of the debate, it showed. I thought the second half of the debate was effectively a draw, but a lot of viewers were probably in bed by then. Number seven, Walls previously said he was in Hong Kong during the

Tiananmen Square protests. A report came out last week proving that this was a lie. Somehow, protests. A report came out last week proving that this was a lie. Somehow, someway, he was not prepared to answer a question about it at the debate. This is political malpractice. I have no idea how his team did not have him ready to explain this, but calling yourself a knucklehead and stumbling through an answer about how you grew up in the Midwest doesn't cut it. More importantly, he has genuine credibility problems now. He seems to quote-unquote misspeak an awful lot. Number eight, on the other hand, at one point in the debate, Walls said he was quote, friends with school shooters, end quote. If Walls can deliver a gaffe that big on the biggest night of his political career, then I'm willing to believe that any lie or mistruth from

his past was actually him misspeaking. Number nine, I saw a never-Trump GOP strategist on Twitter say that Tim Walz has the killer instinct of a manatee. I laughed when I saw it because it's so true. What I'm less sure of is whether this is an asset or not. My personal feeling is that Walz might be a bit too soft for the job, not assertive or direct enough. I don't feel that way about Trump, Harris, or Vance. But then, this morning, as I was re-watching the debate in my kitchen, my wife walked in and listened for a few minutes while having her coffee. He just seems so nice, she said to me, unprompted in a cheery tone. He doesn't sound rehearsed. He sounds like a real person. None of the other politicians ever talk like this, end quote. Number 10, as journalist

Max Meyer noted, Vance could have appeared more comfortable than Walls because he had been going on leftist networks for years. That got me thinking, I'd love to see J.D. Vance and Pete Buttigieg debate each other. Both men have a knack for communicating their ideas to people who disagree with them, and I wouldn't be surprised if we see it in 2028. Number 11. Can CBS really not find a single conservative to moderate the debate? It's genuinely embarrassing at this point. They ask Walls a few tough questions, but the insertions of subtle fact checks and comments all going in one direction, and the inherent liberal bias in their framing is so grating to me. And I'm a moderate. I can't imagine what it's like for tried and true conservatives to watch

stuff like this. I will say this, though. They make it a lot easier to pitch dangle. Number 12. At one point, Vance tried to give Donald Trump credit for salvaging the Affordable Care Act, or Obamacare. I damn near fell out of my chair. This was the most egregious up-is-down and down-is-up moment of the night. Walls rightly pointed out that Trump tried and continues to promise to kill the Affordable Care Act without explaining what will replace it. It is pretty shocking to me that Republicans have had a full decade to develop a coherent message and plan on this issue, but still have nothing. Number 13, at another point, Walls claimed, quote, you can't scream fire in a crowded theater in response to Vance's criticism that the Biden

administration tried to censor speech online. I actually slapped my own forehead in shock. This is one of the most persistent myths about free speech and free speech law. It is not true. This misunderstanding comes from a non-binding Supreme Court ruling in the early 1900s that has been overturned for almost 50 years, and it is so common and such a common misunderstanding of the law that it's basically become a meme. Number 14. The number one attack line on any of Kamala Harris's promises is, she's been vice president for three and a half years, why doesn't she do it? For some reason, Harris and Walls refused to say Republicans or Congress.

It's very odd to me. When Vance was asked about why he criticized Trump's record on the economy as recently as 2020, he justified it by saying that Trump could have gotten a lot more done if Congress was doing its job. He described our current Congress as a forum for whining. This was a good answer. When Harris and Walz are pressed about why Harris hasn't enacted her agenda already, they respond as if someone just asked them to explain quantum mechanics. Number 15. I'm really curious if after watching this debate there are any conservative Republicans out there, especially diehard Trump supporters, who realize that they may have a better leader for the party in their midst. To me, it seems apparent that Vance is a better communicator than Trump,

and he has the policy chops to explain why people should vote for their ticket. As the Wall Street Journal editorial board put it, quote, he makes the case for Trump better than Trump. Plus, he has none of the baggage. If you're a Trump voter who watched the debate last night, I'd be very curious to hear from you about how his performance landed. Number 16, while discussing bringing down child care costs, Vance said we should induce more people to provide child care options. This was pretty notable in his classic big government

language, seemingly implying that the government should create incentives to work in child care. It seems worth pointing out that a different way to reduce child care costs is actually by encouraging immigration. Number 17, speaking of big government, it appears that both major political parties have officially abandoned any semblance of small government orientation. This has been obvious for several years to anyone paying attention, but it's cemented after last night. And number 18, I'll end with something reporter Lee Fang said that I endorse wholeheartedly. Quote, Walls and Vance agreeing with each other on lots of topics, on trade, even some aspects of clean energy policy,

suggests to me in some alt-political system, i.e. Denmark's multi-party system instead of our own two-party system, we would have political coalitions of reasonable leaders, end quote. We'll be right back after this quick break. Oh, that coffee smells good. Can you pass me the sugar when you're finished? Whoa, whoa, whoa. What are you doing? That's salt, not sugar. Let's get you another coffee. Feeling distracted?

You're not alone. Many Canadians are finding it hard to focus with mortgage payments on their minds. If you're struggling with your payments, speak to your bank. The earlier they understand your situation, the more options and relief measures could be available to you. Learn more at Canada.ca slash it pays to know. A message from the Government of Canada. From Searchlight Pictures comes A Real Pain, one of the most moving and funny films of the year.

Written and directed by Oscar-nominated Jesse Eisenberg and starring Eisenberg and Emmy Award winner Kieran Culkin, A Real Pain is a comedy about mismatched cousins who reunite for a tour through Poland to honor their beloved grandmother. The adventure takes a turn when the pair's old tensions resurface against the backdrop of their family history. A Real Pain was one of the buzziest titles at Sundance Film Festival this year, garnering rave reviews and acclaim from both critics and audiences alike. See A Real Pain only in theaters November 15th. Based on Charles Yu's award-winning book, Interior Chinatown follows the story of Willis Wu,

a background character trapped in a police procedural who dreams about a world beyond Chinatown. When he inadvertently becomes a witness to a crime, Willis begins to unravel a criminal web, his family's buried history, and what it feels like to be in the spotlight. Interior Chinatown is streaming November 19th, only on Disney+. All right, that is it for my take. Before I get out of here, though, I do want to give some

additional fact checks. First of all, J.D. Vance claimed that housing is unaffordable in part because millions of illegal immigrants are competing with Americans for scarce homes. So this is partly true. Elevated immigration is one cited reason housing demand has gone up, which has driven up costs. However, a housing shortage has existed since the Great Recession of 2007 and 2009, and the driving factor has been the fact we are building much fewer homes than we used to. From 2008 to 2018, fewer new homes were built than at any time since the 1960s. Vance did reference a Federal Reserve study that drills down on the connection between increased levels of migration, especially illegal immigration and higher housing

prices. After the debate, he shared a link to remarks, not a study, from Federal Reserve Governor Michelle W. Bowman in May that the inflow of new immigrants to some geographic areas could result in upward pressure on rents as additional housing supply may take time to materialize. However, Bowman also highlighted strong consumer demand for services and labor market tightness as factors affecting home scarcity. Tim Walz claimed that border crossings are down compared to when Trump left office. This is technically true, but very misleading. If you compare U.S. Border Patrol encounters from August 2024, it's 58,038, to January 2021, the last month Trump was in office, that's 75,316, then this is true.

But in fiscal year 2023, USBP and the Office of Field Operations reported a total of 3.2 million border encounters, an unprecedented and historic number. Yearly encounters under Trump peaked at 1.1 million in 2019. Tim Walz claimed Project 2025 would create a registry of pregnancies. This is false. Project 2025 calls for better data collection on abortion, abortion survivors, and abortion-related deaths, see page 455, but it does not call for a record of pregnancies. And of course, both Trump and Vance have repeatedly stated that Project 2025 does not represent their platform or views. J.D. Vance claimed that Wall signed a bill in Minnesota that says doctors are under no obligation to provide life-saving care to a baby who survives a botched late-term abortion. This is false. The 2023 bill did change the language from a similar

2015 bill. Now it says medical personnel are required to, quote, care for the infant who is born alive, end quote, rather than what it said before, which was preserve the life and health of the born alive infant. But both versions, the 2023 version and 2015 version, include an amendment that says, quote, an infant who is born alive shall be fully recognized as a human person and accorded immediate protection under the law, end quote. Infanticide is still criminalized in every state, including Minnesota. Vance claimed that Iran has received $100 billion in unfrozen assets under the Biden-Harris administration, which they've used to buy weapons and attack American allies like Israel. This is misleading. Iran has said it

received $100 billion worth of frozen overseas assets as part of the nuclear agreement it signed during the Obama administration, not the Biden-Harris administration. U.S. officials have claimed that only $50 billion of those assets would be accessible to Iran. The Biden administration did agree to unfree $6 billion in Iranian assets as part of a swap to free five American citizens being imprisoned in Iran, but Iran has not yet received those assets. I will note some conservatives have argued that Vance said Iran has received over $100 billion and unfrozen assets and was referring to $100 billion that Iran had purportedly received in revenue from unenforced oil sanctions during the Biden administration. While Iran's oil revenues have increased in the past four years,

Vance appears to be overstating the magnitude of that increase. Next up, Tim Walz claimed that Trump didn't pay federal taxes in 10 of the 15 years between 2005 and 2020. Although in the actual debate, it sounded like maybe he said he hadn't paid taxes in the last 15 years. So I don't really know what this was about. Wall stumbled over his words here. The debate transcript,

and you can watch the clip of the moment, Wall said, how is it fair that you're paying your taxes every year and Donald Trump hasn't paid any federal tax 10 to last 15 years in the last year as president? What he seems to be trying to say is that Trump did not pay federal taxes in 10 of the last 15 years between 2005 and 2020, his last year as president. That is based on a New York Times report that found Trump paid no income taxes for 10 years in that time period. So Walls is correct if you interpret his

statement that way. In the moment, however, Walls sounded to some like he was saying Trump hadn't paid any federal tax in the last 15 years, which isn't true. The Times report showed he'd filed federal income tax returns and paid $641,000 in federal income tax in 2015, $750 in both 2016 and 2017, and $133,000 in 2019. In 2020, he paid no federal income taxes. And finally, Vance claimed that no major conflicts broke out during Donald Trump's presidency. This is mostly true. No new wars started during Trump's term and there were no authorizations of military force. However, the U.S. was still involved in some conflicts. Trump ordered airstrikes on Syria in 2018. His administration relaxed rules of engagements on airstrikes in Afghanistan that led to a 330% increase in

civilian casualties. He also ordered an airstrike that killed Iranian General Qasem Soleimani in 2020. It's also worth noting there were no new wars during Richard Nixon, Gerald Ford, or Jimmy Carter's presidencies either, despite Nixon governing through the Vietnam War. All right, that is it for the fact-check section. I'm going to send it back to John for the rest of the pod. And stay tuned for a very important announcement. What could it be? Coming up tomorrow morning, I hope, on this podcast. So if you're listening to this, mark your calendars. Don't forget to come check the podcast tomorrow morning. We'll see you then. Peace.

Thanks, Isaac. Here's your under-the-radar story for today, folks. Hurricane Helene has destroyed huge swaths of the Southeast, but its impacts in one North Carolina town could have global ramifications. Spruce Pine, North Carolina is home to the world's only natural source of the highest purity quartz sand used in making silicon wafers for semiconductor chips that power everything from smartphones to AI data centers. Catastrophic flooding in Spruce Pine has damaged the roads and rail lines used to access the mining facilities, and the status of the mines themselves remains unclear. While many silicone wafer producers have emergency stores of Spruce Pine quartz, the two companies that operate quartz mines in the

area have not said when they'll be able to restart operations. An extended disruption could lead to supply chain issues and more expensive electronics. Morning Brew has this story, and there's a link in today's episode description. All right, next up is our numbers section. Governor Tim Walz's total speaking time in the debate was 41 minutes and 4 seconds, according to the New York Times. The amount of time Walz spent attacking his opponent in the debate was 9 minutes and 19 seconds. Senator J.D. Vance's total speaking time in the debate was 39 minutes and 36 seconds. The amount of time Vance spent attacking his opponent in the debate was 8 minutes and 14 seconds. The percentage of their total speaking time that Walls and Vice President Kamala Harris, respectively, spent attacking their opponent in their respective debates was 22% and 46%. The percentage of their total speaking

time that Vance and former President Donald Trump, respectively, spent attacking their opponent in their respective debates was 20% and 28%. The amount of time Wahls spent speaking about abortion during the debate, the most of any issue, was five minutes and six seconds. And the amount of time Vance spent speaking about immigration during the debate, the most of any issue, was five minutes and eight seconds. And last but not least, our Have a Nice Day story. Happy 100th birthday, President Carter. Yesterday, Jimmy Carter celebrated his century of life in his hometown of life in his hometown of Plains, Georgia. He is the first American president to reach this milestone.

In celebration, the Navy performed a flyover and Plains hosted a ribbon-cutting ceremony for the new statue dedicated to the Bill of Rights and the Constitution. Carter served as the 39th President of the United States from 1977 to 1981 and was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize in 2002. Fox News has this story and there's a link in today's episode description. All right, everybody, that is it for today's episode. As always, if you'd like to support our work, please go to readtangle.com and sign up for a membership. We'll be right back here tomorrow. For Isaac and the rest of the crew, this is John Law signing off. Have a great day, y'all. Peace.

Our podcast is written by me, Isaac Saul, and edited and engineered by John Law. The script is edited by our managing editor, Ari Weitzman, Will Kedak, Bailey Saul, and Sean Brady. The logo for our podcast was designed by Magdalena Bokova, who is also our social media manager. Music for the podcast was produced by Diet75. And if you're looking for more from Tangle, please go to readtangle.com and check out our website. We'll see you next time.