Tangle - The arrest of a Wisconsin judge.

Episode Date: April 28, 2025

On Friday, the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) arrested Milwaukee County Circuit Judge Hannah Dugan for allegedly helping an unauthorized migrant evade arrest. Dugan was charged with ���obstructing or impeding a proceeding before a department or agency of the United States” and “concealing an individual to prevent his discovery and arrest,” as stated in a criminal complaint signed by Milwaukee FBI agents and unsealed on Friday.Ad-free podcasts are here!Many listeners have been asking for an ad-free version of this podcast that they could subscribe to — and we finally launched it. You can go to ReadTangle.com to sign up!You can read today's podcast⁠ ⁠⁠here⁠⁠⁠, our “Under the Radar” story ⁠here and today’s “Have a nice day” story ⁠here⁠.Take the survey: What do you think of Judge Dugan’s arrest? Let us know!You can subscribe to Tangle by clicking here or drop something in our tip jar by clicking here. Our Executive Editor and Founder is Isaac Saul. Our Executive Producer is Jon Lall.This podcast was written by Isaac Saul and edited and engineered by Dewey Thomas. Music for the podcast was produced by Diet 75.Our newsletter is edited by Managing Editor Ari Weitzman, Senior Editor Will Kaback, Hunter Casperson, Kendall White, Bailey Saul, and Audrey Moorehead.  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

With the Fizz loyalty program, you get rewarded just for having a mobile plan. You know, for texting and stuff. And if you're not getting rewards like extra data and dollars off with your mobile plan, you're not with Fizz. Switch today. Conditions apply. Details at fizz.ca. From executive producer Isaac Saul, this is Tangle. Good morning, good afternoon, and good evening. And welcome to the Tangle podcast, the place where we get views from across the political

spectrum, some independent thinking, and a little bit of my take. I'm your host, Isaac Saul. And on today's episode, we're going to be talking about the arrest of Milwaukee County Judge Hannah Dugan. It is April 28th, Monday. There is more news than ever, it feels like. So you know, this was a tough story to pick out of the crop, but we've got a lot of interesting topics coming this week to break down.

Before we do though, I want to give you a quick heads up. First of all, we need your help. This month, every month at Tangle, just a little peel back on the curtain, we set some goals for our growth. And the goals, obviously they hit different kinds of metrics, but one of the big ones, one of the big goals that we set is paid memberships. That is

people who either subscribe to the podcast to get ad-free podcasts and unlock special content or subscribe to the newsletter to get ad-free newsletters and unlock special content. This week we're behind. We're like 90% of the way through the month and we're about 60 like 90% of the way through the month and we're about 60, 65% of the way to our goal this month, excuse me. Sometimes that happens and it's no big deal and next month we'll make it up,

we'll have a great month. Sometimes you get a few of those months in a row and yeah, it can strain things and it's difficult. So the upshot of what's happening right now is we're behind this month and I thought why not just tell our audience that and ask those of you who've been on the fence about subscribing to make the jump

because it'd be really helpful for us. So just putting this little plug up top of the podcast to say, if you're not yet a Tangle member, you can become one by going to readtangle.com and clicking the membership page. When you do that, you can subscribe one by going to readtangle.com and clicking the membership page. When you do that, you can subscribe for a bundle membership, which gets you total access to the newsletter and podcast for $99 a year. It also eliminates ads on the podcast.

So if you get annoyed by all the ad roles that exist in our various podcasts and shows, you can eliminate them by subscribing to the podcast and that sort of directs you to add a members only podcast to your feed and then you don't have ads anymore. Plus you unlock a bunch of stuff. So just recently we published a piece on Friday where I made the case that Biden really did make a mess of immigration.

On the newsletter website side, we had a piece from a woman whose son was killed by MS-13. It was a members only piece. She wrote about despite that experience, why she still opposes Trump's deportation. Super controversial, interesting piece. I interviewed Richard Hananeah, a Trump voter who regarded his choice a couple of weeks ago. That was a members only podcast. All this kind of content comes out on a regular basis. So go to retangle.com, click the membership page. It's also retangle.com forward slash membership to become a member. You can also subscribe by going through Supercast and on that membership page, you can click just at the bottom. You can subscribe just to the podcast only,

if you're only a podcast listener, lots of great choices. Anyway, it would be awesome if in the last few days of this month, we're able to catch our goal. So just figured I'd say so. And with that, now that I'm done begging for your money, your hard earned dollars in these difficult economic times, I'm going to send it over to John for today's main story and I'll be back for my take. I'm going to send it over to John for today's main story

and I'll be back for my take. Thanks, Isaac, and welcome everybody. Hope you all had an absolutely wonderful weekend. And I just wanted to real quick shout out that I appreciate a lot of the commentary that has been left on the YouTube video, some very kind and thought provoking comments as well. So a lot of feedback to take in, which I really appreciate as we move forward on trying to build this YouTube channel and start producing more video content.

With that said, here are your quick hits for today. First up, Secretary of State Marco Rubio said the United States would make a decision this week about whether to continue its attempts to broker a peace deal between Russia and Ukraine. The remarks follow President Donald Trump's meeting with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky during Pope Francis' funeral and Trump's public criticism of a Russian drone attack on Kyiv on Thursday. Separately, Russian President Vladimir Putin announced a three-day ceasefire in Ukraine

starting on May 8 to mark the commemoration of the end of World War II. 2. 11 people were killed and at least 20 were injured after a man drove a vehicle into a crowd at a street festival in Vancouver, British Columbia. Vancouver police said they have arrested a suspect but do not believe it was an act of terrorism. 3.

The Trump administration restored potentially thousands of student visa registrations that it had attempted to cancel following a series of legal challenges to the elimination of visas from a federal database used to track foreign students. Separately, the Trump administration deported two mothers in the country illegally with their children, some of whom are U.S. citizens, aged 2, 4, and 7. 4. some of whom are US citizens aged 2, 4, and 7. Number four, former representative George Santos was sentenced to seven years and three months in prison after pleading guilty to wire fraud

and aggravated identity theft. And number five, representative Jerry Connolly, the Democrat from Virginia, announced that he will resign as a ranking member of the House Oversight Committee and will not seek reelection in 2026 due to ongoing health challenges from cancer. ["The F.B.I." by The Frippin' Heads plays in background.] The FBI has arrested a Wisconsin judge

over allegedly helping an undocumented immigrant evade arrest. Milwaukee County circuit judge Hannah Dugan was arrested this morning at a courthouse before being released. She's been charged with concealing a person from arrest and obstruction. FBI Director Cash Patel announcing the arrest on X. The complaint states that last week ICE planned to arrest Eduardo Flores Ruiz during a court appearance on domestic abuse charges,

but that Judge Dugan intentionally misdirected agents away. On Friday, the Federal Bureau of Investigation arrested Milwaukee County Circuit Judge Hannah Dugan for allegedly helping an unauthorized migrant evade arrest. Dugan was charged with obstructing or impeding a proceeding before a department or agency of the United States and concealing an individual to prevent his discovery and arrest, as stated in a criminal complaint signed by Milwaukee FBI agents and unsealed on Friday. According to the complaint, Eduardo Flores Ruiz was charged in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, with battery and domestic abuse on March 18th for an incident that allegedly occurred on

March 12th. battery and domestic abuse on March 18 for an incident that allegedly occurred on March 12. Then, agents from the Department of Homeland Security and Milwaukee's Immigration and Customs Enforcement Enforcement and Removal Operations identified Flores Ruiz as a Mexican national who had entered the United States illegally after having been deported in 2013. ICE ERO issued a warrant for Flores Ruiz's arrest on April 17. Judge Dugan presided over Flores Ruiz's criminal hearing on April 18, after which FBI, ICE, and Drug Enforcement Agency agents planned to arrest Flores Ruiz in a public hallway

outside the courtroom. According to the complaint, Judge Dugan appeared visibly angry when informed of ICE's presence, then allegedly attempted to expedite Flores Ruiz's hearing before directing him to exit through a jury door to avoid arrest. DEA and FBI agents pursued Flores Ruiz outside the courthouse and apprehended him. On Friday, FBI agents arrested Duggan on obstruction of justice charges. We believe Judge Duggan intentionally misdirected federal agents away from the subject to be arrested in her courthouse, Eduardo Flores Ruiz, allowing the subject, an illegal alien,

to evade arrest, FBI Director Cash Patel said in a post on Exxon Friday. Many Republicans immediately supported Dugan's arrest and criticized her behavior. I think some of these judges think they are beyond and above the law, and they are not," Attorney General Pam Bondi told Fox News. We're sending a very strong message today. In Wisconsin, state Republicans signaled that they may remove Judge Dugan from office. Conversely, many Democrats spoke out against Dugan's arrest. It is remarkable that the administration would dare to start arresting state court judges,

Representative Jamie Raskin said. It's a whole new descent into chaos. Representative Mark Pocan called the judge's arrest stuff I expect from third world countries. Details of the case resemble a similar occurrence during Trump's first term, when Massachusetts judge Shelley Joseph was criminally charged with impeding

a federal immigration arrest of a defendant in her courtroom in 2018. Federal prosecutors agreed to drop Joseph's case in 2022, but state judicial disciplinary authorities accused her of engaging in willful misconduct in December 2024. Today, we'll break down what the left and right are saying about Dugan's arrest, and then Isaac's tape. We'll be right back after this quick break. With the Fizz loyalty program, you get rewarded just for having a mobile plan. You know, for texting and stuff.

And if you're not getting rewards like extra data and dollars off with your mobile plan, you're not with Fizz. Switch today. Conditions apply. Details at fizz.ca. Alright, first up, let's start with what the left is saying. The left is critical of Dugan's arrest, with many arguing the Trump administration is trying to intimidate judges. Some say this story is a predictable outcome of ICE's courtroom arrest policy. Others suggest the arrest introduces more uncertainty into the relationship between

the executive and the judiciary. In the Atlantic, Adam Serwer said the Trump administration is sending a clear message to the judiciary. Bondi might have easily stuck to the specifics of Dugan's case, insisting that her behavior was particularly egregious and that Dugan's indictment was about her individual conduct and not the judiciary as a whole. Indeed, in 2019, that's precisely what the Donald Trump-appointed U.S. attorney Andrew Yelling did in a similar case when a Massachusetts judge, Shelley Joseph, was indicted for allegedly helping an undocumented immigrant escape, Cerber wrote. But Bondi chose to do the opposite, implying that Dukin's indictment was an attempt to

intimidate the judiciary itself. The message is that judges who anger the administration will be prosecuted at Trump's whim. One need not approve of Dugan's alleged conduct here to understand that the Trump administration is attempting to intimidate judges into doing its bidding. After all, there are other ways to sanction judges. Although the federal case against Joseph was dismissed, she has been charged by the Massachusetts Commission on Judicial Conduct, a process that avoids executive encroachments on judicial authority, Cerberus said.

Allowing the Wisconsin Judicial Commission to evaluate whether Dugan's behavior crossed a line, however, would not yield the political result that Trump and Bondi are seeking. In Slate, Douglas Keith argued that Dugan's arrest puts us all at risk. The move is an escalation in the conflict between the Trump administration and local authorities over immigration policies. It also undermines the ability of judiciaries to effectively carry out their duties, Keith wrote. ICE's own policy changes, which dramatically increase the frequency of immigration arrests

in courthouses, set federal law enforcement on a collision course with state courts. These policy changes were made despite ample evidence and clear calls from judges, prosecutors, and others that immigration enforcement in state courthouses makes communities less safe. These arrests resulted in chaos in courthouses across the country. Chase scenes played out in courthouse halls. People who were scheduled to appear before a judge disappeared immediately before their hearing. One incident in New York City was so violent that witnesses thought the person ICE arrested had been kidnapped, Keith said. If the government has any interest in keeping communities safe,

it can heed the calls of those judges, prosecutors, and court administrators who have clearly said, keep immigration enforcement out of courts and let judges do their jobs. In New York Magazine, Christian Farias wrote, Dukin's arrest has nothing to do with public safety. In a close reading of a 13-page affidavit supporting the criminal complaint, which notes that Dukin became visibly angry when she learned of ICE's presence at the courthouse last week — a turn of events she called absurd — reveals the true import of the circus.

None of it made anyone any safer, Faria said. As a matter of basic federalism, which Republicans and conservatives have long embraced, armed federal agents from ICE and the FBI and the Drug Enforcement Administration shouldn't be roaming around a state courthouse looking for people who are there for other reasons. These kinds of tactics hamper the court system in other ways. Victims and witnesses with immigrant backgrounds become fearful and unwilling to come to the court when their presence and participation is essentially in cases that have nothing

to do with criminal law, Farias wrote. The chilling effect on future court operations will be unavoidable. Coupled with the Trump Justice Department's stated policy of going after state and local officials who don't fall in line with the administration's immigration crackdown, Dugan's arrest may be just the tip of the spear in our new federalism. Alright that is it for what the left is saying, which brings us to what the right is saying. Many on the right support Dugan's arrest, saying she is credibly accused of aiding Flores Ruiz's attempt to evade ICE.

Some say that Dugan is the latest judge to try to subvert the law for political ends. Others suggest that Democrats' claims of a constitutional crisis are overwrought. In The Washington Examiner, Byron York asked, will Judge Dugan become the next hero of the Resistance? Based on the facts laid out in the affidavit, prosecutors charged Dugan with an obstructing or impeding of a proceeding before a department or agency of the United States and concealing an individual to prevent his discovery and arrest, both felonies. Meanwhile, Flores Ruiz is in ICE custody, York wrote.

And now the politics begins. According to a Milwaukee Journal Sentinel account, as word of Dugan's arrest spread, about two dozen protesters linked arms in front of the courthouse chanting, No justice, no peace, let the judge be released. Some waved American flags. One protester held a sign that read, Only fascists arrest judges. Here's the thing. We know who the villain is, but who are Democrats going to make the

hero in this story? The answer, of course, seems to be Dugan. But remember, all of this was done on behalf of Eduardo Flores Ruiz, York said. It's similar to the problem Democrats face in the Kilmar-Abrego Garcia case. With that, Democrats have argued that even if Abrego Garcia is a gang member, which they still deny, the case is really about due process and everyone's rights in America. But people might still ask, why should a judge of all people obstruct federal agents and the

enforcement of immigration law when the facts in the case seem so clear-cut? In The American Spectator, David Catron wrote about Dugan's arrogant offense. Senator Dick Durbin denounced Dugan's arrogant offense. Senator Dick Durbin denounced Dugan's arrest in an overwrought statement. The Trump administration continues to test the limits of our Constitution. When immigration enforcement officials interfere with our criminal justice system, it undermines public safety, Catron wrote. Durbin is a little confused.

It was Judge Dugan who interfered in our criminal justice system by personally conducting Flores Ruiz out of the courtroom through an exit outside of which she knew no federal agents would be waiting. This kind of lawlessness is not, of course, restricted to Wisconsin. On the same day Judge Dugan was taken into custody, the DOJ arrested a former Doña Ana County judge in New Mexico. Jose Luis Cano and his wife Nancy Ann Cano were charged with evidence tampering related to the federal investigation and prosecution against Cristian Ortega Lopez, Catrin wrote.

This makes two judges arrested and two judges who, for all intents and purposes, refuse to adhere to the oaths of their office. All four, and many more, see themselves as part of the resistance. But what are they resisting? It isn't just President Trump or even the will of the people. It's the rule of law. In Fox News, Jonathan Turley said out-of-control judges, not FBI, appear to have crossed red line.

As soon as the news of the arrest was reported, Democrats declared another constitutional crisis. Senator Amy Klobuchar added that the arrest is a drastic move threatening the rule of law and a grave step that undermines our system of checks and balances, Turley wrote. That is a curious claim unless Klobuchar believes that the officers are lying. If not, Klobuchar is suggesting that a judge should not be held accountable for actively shielding a wanted person and facilitating their evasion from law enforcement. This judge is accused of conduct that has resulted in charges for other citizens.

The judicial robe is not some form of invisibility cloak that allows judges to engage in alleged criminal acts. I'm perplexed by Democrats rushing to denounce the arrest of Dugan before we know whether these allegations are supported. If she escorted the suspect to a non-public door to facilitate his escape, that conduct is a shocking abandonment of judicial ethics," Turley said. I have often criticized the reckless rhetoric directed against judges, including those who have ruled against the Trump administration.

We need to maintain our civility and respect as we work through these often difficult questions. However, that works both ways. Judges have to reinforce respect for the judiciary in their own conduct. All right, let's head over to Isaac for his take. All right. That is it for what the left and the right are saying, which brings us to my take. So when news of this story first broke, I found out through a deleted and then reposted tweet by FBI Director Cash Patel.

And I think like a lot of people, my initial response was pretty reactionary. I posted on X that quote, Republicans who don't oppose this are signing up for a future democratic president to use the FBI to arrest judges. I hope you're all ready for that. Not long after I went on the Tangle Sunday podcast

with Ari, our managing editor, and Camille Foster of the Fifth Column, and we discussed the limited details we had about the arrest at the time. This was on Friday. So all three of us agreed, and we felt like some sort of Rubicon had been crossed. I mean, Trump was arresting judges now.

That was like the general tenor of our conversation on the Sunday pod that came out yesterday. In a lot of ways, it's still hard for me to shake that feeling. Trump, his attorney general, the head of the FBI and conservative influencers, they have been threatening rogue judges, as they call them, for weeks. They've been calling to impeach judges who rule against them. They've been promising to fight back against the judiciary and on Friday they arrested a county judge in Wisconsin in her own courtroom. And then the criminal complaint came out. And as I read through the details provided in the affidavit, I started to feel like the case against Dugan was credible. The basic story seems to be that Judge Dugan was upset. Law enforcement officers were trying to arrest someone

near her courtroom, so she intentionally allowed Eduardo Flores Ruiz, the defendant in a criminal case in her court, to exit through a jury door that is not typically, or by some accounts ever, used for defendants, which resulted in FBI and DEA agents chasing the defendant on foot to apprehend him outside the courtroom. A few things about the criminal complaint stood out to me.

First of all, FBI and DEA agents regularly make arrests in public spaces at courthouses. In fact, they prefer it because they know where defendants are, that they are not armed, and that they have limited ways to evade arrest. In this case, the government says that the defendant got outside and then tried to make a run for it, which kind of validates this method and makes Judge Dugan's alleged actions quite dangerous. Second, the detailed story told by FBI agent Lindsay Schlomer seems to be corroborated by several witnesses, including plainclothes agents, lawyers in the courtroom, a courtroom deputy, and a victim witness specialist. In other words, Schlomer's account is not just the account

of law enforcement officers. Lastly, and somewhat tangentially, the number of people involved in arresting a single person for deportation is remarkable. We, in this affidavit and in the criminal complaint, we have at least several FBI agents, several DEA agents, several CBP agents, and several quote-unquote deportation officers whose agency is not identified. After reading through the whole

document, I felt that there were at least open questions about Dugan's actions that warranted her arrest. I've been pretty compelled by the nobody is above the law principle, which is why I said the DOJ was right to criminally charge President Trump, and why they'd also be right to pursue charges against Bill Clinton for alleged rape, or George W. Bush for torture and illegal wiretapping. Wouldn't we have a better country if the powerful feared accountability, and why would that ethos apply to presidents, but not a county judge? This isn't even new territory. Almost the same thing happened in 2018, an event that seven years later,

I don't view as some sea change in American history, but instead has been all but forgotten. Having said that, there are still reasons that I'm concerned about Dugan's arrest. Judges have discretion over their courtroom. So she was well within her legal authority to tell ICE agents to wait in a public area outside and to ask a chief judge to determine

where they can and can't make arrests. Rather than sneaking him out some back door, it seems like the judge basically got him out of the building faster on a route that still had him take public hallways and was still entirely in view of the agents there to arrest him. Indeed, on paragraph 33 of the complaint,

it says that explicitly, quote, "' leaving the chief judge's vestibule and returning to the public hallway, DEA Agent A reported that Flores Ruiz and his attorney were in the public hallway. DEA Agent B also observed Flores Ruiz and his attorney in the hallway near courtroom 615. At approximately 8.50 a.m., DEA Agent A alerted other members of the arrest that DEA Agent A was on the elevator with Flores Ruiz. So, Flores Ruiz exited the courtroom into a public hallway where he could be legally arrested at Judge Dugan's discretion and was then accompanied by a DEA agent in an elevator as he exited the courthouse. All this to be clear is in the FBI's criminal complaint without even hearing the judge's defense.

This kind of undermines the idea that Dugan attempted some big secret escape that was thwarted by law enforcement. Furthermore, this practice of courtroom arrests while safer for law enforcement has a very obvious negative effect. It reduces the likelihood of defendants and witnesses showing up to court since they know that this is a place they could get scooped up by immigration authorities.

This worsens a problem Trump and many conservatives have articulated that migrants here illegally don't show up to court hearings. All of this leaves me feeling pretty conflicted. On the one hand, my initial reaction still feels valid. The context of what the Trump administration is doing is relevant. It's arresting a judge at a time when it is threatening the judiciary,

pushing executive powers to the limits and testing the reach of court orders. That all makes me feel pretty squeamish. It's also fair to wonder if these allegations are worth charging a judge with two felony offenses instead of referring her for a judicial review, as eventually happened with a Massachusetts judge from 2018. On the other hand, if you simply ask me after reading the charging complaint, do you think Judge Dugan's conduct justifies her arrest? My answer is yes. That's not to say that she is definitely guilty. Her defense and statements from other witnesses

could fully exonerate her, which is the point of due process, but it did seem like she was angry at the situation and tried to help Flores Ruiz avoid law enforcement. To my point above, being a judge should not prevent law enforcement from investigating you for wrongdoing. Lastly, some political sentiment is obviously at play.

For example, imagine for a moment if Judge Dugan were someone who denied the results of the 2020 election, and the defendant in question had been charged with trying to access ballot machines to help prove election fraud. Would people on the left be upset to see Dugan arrested on suspicion of helping that person avoid arrest? I doubt it. Ultimately, first impressions are a powerful thing, and I have trouble shaking the feeling that the Trump administration is intentionally escalating its tension with

the judiciary, which is a game of chicken that has no good ending. But I think the only wise thing to do is reserve judgment on Dugan's guilt or innocence by waiting for more information to come out and waiting to see whether this prosecution gets pursued in earnest or at all. We'll be right back after this quick break. With the FIZ loyalty program, you get rewarded just for having a mobile plan. You know, for texting and stuff. And if you're not getting rewards like extra data and dollars off with your mobile plan, you're not with Fizz.

Switch today. Conditions apply. Details at fizz.ca. ["Skype Rewind"] All right, that is it for my take. Today's reader question was actually directed at Ari. So we're going to bring him into the pod to answer the reader question. I'll see you guys tomorrow.

Peace. Thanks, Isaac. So this question comes from Jeff from Henderson, Nevada, who asked, in the Sunday, April 20th podcast, Ari threw out a common line. We are an over-medicated society. Curious what specific examples he's referring to besides ADHD meds. So this question was in reference to a New York Magazine article that was sweeping the internet by storm that Isaac was talking about, challenging the ways that

people are thinking about ADHD medication, leaving some like me to say, we are an over-medicated society. So what other examples? I'm glad you asked. Before I get into the numbers, I want to say first that I know a lot of people use genuinely transformational medications that weren't available in years and decades past. I've also personally benefited from medical innovations

for all kinds of ailments, from broken bones, asthma attacks, ligament tears, and even a tumor on my small intestine when I was a kid. So I'm not anti-medicine or anti-science at all. However, at a population level, it's hard to believe that all the routine medication we prescribe is truly necessary in every situation. Let me start here. 65% of U.S. adults have taken prescription medication in the past year. Not only that, but 89% of U.S. adults aged 65 and up have taken prescription medication in the past year, and about 40% of them take five or more prescription medications. That rate is triple what it was from 20 years ago. We take more antidepressants than our pure nations. Based on CDC data from 2015 and 2018,

13% of US adults had taken an antidepressant in the last month at the time of the survey, compared to 7% of Europeans across 12 months in 2015. We take more painkillers too. The opioid use rate in the United States is 26 times higher than it is in 2015. We take more painkillers too. The opioid use rate in the United States is 26 times higher than it is in Japan. Then there's the granddaddy of them all, weight loss drugs. One in eight U.S. adults has taken Ozepic or another GLP-1 drug in the past year and about 6% are currently prescribed one. In total, North Americans comprise 76% of the global market for GOP1 drugs.

These numbers, all told, tell me that we turn to medication very quickly to solve our problems instead of exploring other methods of health care. So that's the radar question, and I will send it back to John to take us out through the rest of the pod. Thanks Ari. Here's your under the Radar story for today, folks. A New York Times investigation into the plane and helicopter crash near Reagan National Airport in January found that the pilot of the Army helicopter did not heed a suggestion from her co-pilot to make a left turn in the moments preceding the accident. Chief Warrant Officer 2 Andrew Lloyd-Aves, who served as the instructor on the flight, reportedly told Captain Rebecca Lobak that air traffic control wanted her to turn the

helicopter to avoid a collision threat with the commercial airplane, but Lobak did not adjust the aircraft's course. The finding adds to a series of issues with the helicopter that potentially led to the accident, including a flight path above its mandated altitude and the breakdown of radio communications between the helicopter's crew and air traffic controllers. Investigators are working to determine whether other factors may have contributed to the crash. The New York Times has this story and there's a link in today's episode description.

Alright, next up is our numbers section. today's episode description. Alright next up is our numbers section. The year Milwaukee County Circuit Judge Hannah Dugan was elected to the bench was 2016. The year Dugan's current term ends is 2028. The maximum number of years Dugan could be sentenced to serve in prison if convicted is 6. The year that Eduardo Flores Ruiz was first deported from the United States after illegally crossing the border was 2013.

The approximate number of years that Flores Ruiz has been living in the United States since entering the country a second time after his first deportation is 12. The percentage of Americans who say that it is important that federal judges are impartial in deciding cases is 98 percent, according to an April 2025 Pew Research poll. The percentage of Americans who say they are confident that judges are impartial in deciding cases is 54 percent, and the percentage of Republicans and Democrats respectively who say that they are confident that judges are impartial in deciding cases is 54% and 55%.

And last but not least our Have a Nice Day story. A trail camera in Queensland, Australia captured a red deer and a red fox joining each other for a moonlit stroll. The wildlife enthusiast who posted the video said it was a rare sight and that the two animals appear to be intentionally walking together. I've had many trail cameras in this area and I've captured hundreds of fox interactions with other foxes and animals, but I've never seen two different species just walking together like this," he said. Sunny Skies has this story and the video and there's a link in today's episode description. Alright everybody that is it for today's episode.

As always if you'd like to support our work, please go to retangle.com where you can sign up for a newsletter membership, podcast membership or a bundled membership that gets you a discount on both. We'll be right back here tomorrow for Isaac and the rest of the crew. This is John Lull signing off. Have a great day, y'all. Peace. Our executive editor and founder is me, Isaac Saul, and our executive producer is John Lope.

Today's episode was edited and engineered by Dewey Thomas. Our editorial staff is led by managing editor Ari Weitzman with senior editor Will K. Back and associate editors Hunter Kaspersen, Audrey Moorhead, Bailey Saul, Lindsay Knuth, and Kendall White. Music for the podcast was produced by Dyett75. To learn more about Tangle and to sign up for a membership, please visit our website at retangle.com. With the Fizz loyalty program, you get rewarded just for having a mobile plan.

You know, for texting and stuff. And if you're not getting rewards like extra data and dollars off with your mobile plan, you're not with FIZ. Switch today. Conditions apply. Details at FIZ.ca.