Tangle - The attacks on Israel, and the response.

Episode Date: October 10, 2023

The attack on Israel. Over the weekend, Hamas militants executed a surprise attack on Israel from Gaza, killing over 900 people and wounding more than 2,500. Over 250 people were found dead at a music festival in southern Israel near Gaza, with witnesses saying they fled for their lives as gunmen opened fire on them Saturday morning. Israel says more than 150 civilians and soldiers have been taken hostage. 11 American citizens have been counted among the dead. Those counted missing or dead now include nationals from the United Kingdom, France, Ukraine, and Mexico. One German-Israeli woman was identified by her parents after video circulated of her naked lifeless body being paraded through Gaza by Hamas militants.Editor’s note: In today’s issue, we’ll be covering one of the most contentious topics there is. If you object to something you read, want to give a note of support, or otherwise have an opinion or perspective you want to share, feel free to write in (respectfully). Please don’t unsubscribe because you read something you don’t like. We plan to publish an edition of reader feedback on Friday.You can read today's podcast here and support the groups referenced in today’s “Have a nice day” story here and here. You can also check out our latest YouTube video here.Today’s clickables: Quick hits (1:58), Today’s story (3:56), pro-Israel take (8:27), pro-Palestine take (12:41), Other takes (17:15), Isaac’s take (18:02), Listener question (31:43), Numbers (32:08), Have a nice day (33:24)You can subscribe to Tangle by clicking here or drop something in our tip jar by clicking here.Our podcast is written by Isaac Saul and edited by Jon Lall. Music for the podcast was produced by Diet 75. Our newsletter is edited by Bailey Saul, Sean Brady, Ari Weitzman, and produced in conjunction with Tangle’s social media manager Magdalena Bokowa, who also created our logo.--- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/tanglenews/message Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Based on Charles Yu's award-winning book, Interior Chinatown follows the story of Willis Wu, a background character trapped in a police procedural who dreams about a world beyond Chinatown. When he inadvertently becomes a witness to a crime, Willis begins to unravel a criminal web, his family's buried history, and what it feels like to be in the spotlight. Interior Chinatown is streaming November 19th, only on Disney+. The flu remains a serious disease. Last season, over 102,000 influenza cases have been reported across Canada, which is Chinatown is streaming November 19th, only on Disney+. yourself from the flu. It's the first cell-based flu vaccine authorized in Canada for ages six months and older, and it may be available for free in your province. Side effects and allergic reactions can occur, and 100% protection is not guaranteed. Learn more at flucellvax.ca.

From executive producer Isaac Saul, this is Tangle. Good morning, good afternoon, and good evening, and welcome to the Tangle podcast, a place we get views from across the political spectrum, some independent thinking, and a little bit of my take. Today is Tuesday, October 10th, and we're going to be talking about the attacks in Israel and Israel's retaliation for those attacks and what appears to be a burgeoning war. Obviously, this is one of the most contentious issues there is in politics here in the United States and also, of course, all across the Middle East. I have my own personal feelings about this that I'm going to share today. This is a really difficult time for a lot of people in Israel and certainly a lot of people living in Gaza or in the West Bank and

Palestinians all over the world. People on both sides are mourning and hurting and fearful right now. And so I'm going to do my best to capture some of those perspectives and be honest about my own. But I know that no matter what I say, a lot of people are going to be really upset. but I know that no matter what I say, a lot of people are going to be really upset. So I encourage you to write in, to share your views, to engage on the issue. We are likely to publish a Friday edition this week with some reader feedback because we expect there's going to be a lot of it. And yeah, that is how I want to set the stage for today's edition. Before we jump in, as always, we're going to start off with some quick hits. First up, Robert F. Kennedy Jr. announced that he is switching from a Democrat to an

independent candidate for president. Number two, former House Speaker Kevin McCarthy, the Republican from California, expressed openness to running for House Speaker again after encouragement from his allies. Former President Trump has endorsed Representative Jim Jordan, the Republican from Ohio, for the role. Number three, a federal court approved a new Alabama congressional map that expands the voting power of Black residents. Number four, President Joe Biden was interviewed as part of a special counsel investigation into his handling of classified documents. And number five, the United States added

336,000 jobs in September, well past economists' expectations. We begin tonight with the Middle East in flames. Israel has formally declared war after that unprecedented multi-pronged terror attack from Hamas, shocking the nation, catching its intelligence service by surprise. The death toll is mounting and at least 100 taken hostage. Several Americans are now confirmed to be among the dead. Israel says it has retaken control of areas Hamas had seized. Tonight, Israeli officials cutting off Gaza, the Hamas stronghold, declaring it is under siege and hitting it with repeated airstrikes. Nearly 1,400 in Gaza and Israel have died in the attacks and counteroffensive.

The U.S. confirming at least 11 Americans have been killed. And President Biden saying the U.S. believes Americans may be some of those being held by Hamas. The country also activated 300,000 military reservists, a potential sign Israel could be preparing for a major ground invasion of Gaza. The last time ground forces entered there was in 2014. Over the weekend, Hamas militants executed a surprise attack on Israel from Gaza, killing over 900 people and wounding more than 2,500. Over 250 people were found dead outside a music festival in southern Israel near Gaza, with witnesses saying they fled for their lives as gunmen opened fire on them Saturday morning. Israel says more than 150 civilians and soldiers have

been taken hostage into Gaza. Eleven American citizens have been counted among the dead. Those counted missing or dead now include nationals from the United Kingdom, France, Ukraine, and Mexico. One German-Israeli woman was identified by her parents after videos circulated of her naked, lifeless body being paraded through Gaza by Hamas militants. The attack was a shocking failure of Israel's typically stout intelligence and security, and was the deadliest attack on Israel in decades. A quick reminder, Hamas is an Islamist militant group that currently controls Gaza, which sits in the southwest corner of Israel along the Mediterranean Sea. The United States

and European Union designate Hamas as a terrorist organization. Israel had occupied Gaza for 38 years after the 1967 Six-Day War until 2005 when, under international pressure, Israel withdrew its military presence and settlers from Gaza. However, Israel maintains significant control over the borders of the densely populated strip of land where over 2 million people live, nearly half of whom are under the age of 19. where over 2 million people live, nearly half of whom are under the age of 19. Israel and Egypt maintain a land, air, and sea blockade on Gaza that they justify as a security measure. As a result, Gaza is steeped in deep poverty and suffers a lack of resources with unemployment rates approaching 50% in 2022. Since 2006, Hamas has controlled Gaza, but it has not held elections since then. Hamas was founded in 1987 during an uprising against Israel, and its stated aim is to destroy

the state of Israel. Many Palestinian leaders oppose Hamas because of its use of violence, and it is a divisive group among the Palestinian people. A separate entity, the Palestinian Authority, controls the West Bank, which borders Jordan in northeastern Israel and is currently under Israeli military occupation. Israel responded to the attack by declaring war, calling up over 360,000 reservists, and pledging a full-fledged siege of Gaza. Israel's military said it would cut off food, water, and electricity in Gaza while bombing militant outposts. Hamas's armed wing has pledged to execute the hostages taken in the attack if Israel continues to bomb Gaza without warning. Israel says it has already taken control of communities stormed by the gunmen over the

weekend, and there is no ongoing fighting between Hamas and Israeli forces in Israel, though Hamas and Hezbollah, a militant group in Lebanon, have continued to fire rockets into Israel. Israel says it killed roughly 1,500 Palestinian fighters in battles along the border over the weekend. At least 687 Palestinians have already been killed by the airstrikes in Gaza, including dozens of women and children. Over 3,700 people have been injured, according to the Palestinian Ministry of Health, and that number is expected to grow. More than 124,000 Palestinians have also fled their homes in anticipation of an Israeli bombardment. Hamas's attack came after a year of increased violence and tension between the two sides. Hamas's leaders said it committed the act in response to violence against Palestinians in the West Bank, the blockade of Gaza, and in defense of the Aqsa Mosque in

Jerusalem, a Muslim holy site where Jews had been praying while accompanied by Israeli soldiers. The site is also the location of the Temple Mount, a Jewish holy site, and has been the scene of repeated conflict this year. The attack is also likely to undermine the U.S. brokered talks to normalize relations between Saudi Arabia and Israel, which could have resulted in further diminished Palestinian influence in the Arab world. Obviously, the Israel-Palestine issue is far too complex to capture completely in a single newsletter. It is also too complex to only share views from the right and the left through the American lens. So, today, we're going to share some commentary from voices that are generally pro-Israel and pro-Palestine in the conflict, reflecting on these latest events. First up, we'll start with what the pro-Israel side is saying.

Supporters of Israel say the country should do everything in its power to destroy Hamas. Others say there is no doubt this attack was an act of terrorism, and the international community must stand with Israel in its response. Israeli writers are split on how to respond to the attack, but some suggest Israel must go into Gaza to properly respond to the threat of Hamas. National Review's editors said Israel needs a long leash to destroy Hamas. In the days and weeks ahead, Israel will have to conduct a long, complex, and delicate operation, the likes of which have never been seen before. Israel will have to clear out southern towns and hunt down all the Hamas terrorists who remain in Israel, identify, find, and rescue hostages,

protect the north from Iran's other proxy, Hezbollah, and will have to pulverize Hamas. Israel will require a long leash to ensure that nothing like this ever happens again. The traditional rhythm of conflict between Israel and its enemies has been that Israel gets attacked and is given a small window to respond, and then the world public opinion gathers against Israel while Western leaders urge calm and an end to the cycle of violence, the editor said. The operating theory has been that dealing with a weakened Hamas that can be degraded periodically is better than pulverizing the terrorist group and depriving Gaza of any governing authority, leaving only chaos. But after what has just happened, that calculation has changed. is better than pulverizing the terrorist group and depriving Gaza of any governing authority,

leaving only chaos. But after what has just happened, that calculation has changed. Israeli leaders have now recognized that Hamas can no longer be tolerated. It must be destroyed. Biden has said the U.S. will stand with Israel, and if he truly means it, he must give Israel free reign for as long as it takes to do whatever is necessary to vanquish its savage foes. free reign for as long as it takes to do whatever is necessary to vanquish its savage foes. In CNN, Frida Gaitis argued Hamas's attack on Israel is an indisputable act of terrorism. There is much that Israel has done wrong, but nothing justifies what Hamas has just perpetrated. As many knowledgeable people have pointed out, what Hamas has done is clearly an act of, no matter what your definition, Gaitis said. The disaster is occurring at a time of deep political fractures in Israel. The time will come for recriminations and the political consequences for this failure will be severe.

But the priority is elsewhere now. Benny Gantz, a retired general and one of the opposition leaders, declared in what he said was a message to Iran, the entire people of Israel are united. There is no coalition in opposition now. For now, Israel is dealing with the immediate threat, and soon Israel will undoubtedly face withering condemnation as it always does. As sure as night follows day, Israel will retaliate, and millions around the world will blame Israel and the Jews, ignoring what happened this bloody Saturday. The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is extraordinarily complicated, but there's no denying what happened on Saturday was an act of terrorism, one that deserves clear, unequivocal condemnation. In the Jerusalem Post, Yaakov Katz argued that Israel must respond to the attack with a ground

invasion of Gaza. Any ground offensive inside one of the most densely populated areas in the world will unfortunately come at a price. Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad have had years to prepare for Israeli troops, digging tunnels, assembling powerful, improvised explosive devices, and booby-trapping homes and hothouses. Israel will have to enter Gaza carefully, Katz wrote. The other alternative is not to go inside and to continue to try and surgically strike at Hamas infrastructure from the air, as it has done in previous operations, and suffice with that. The advantage here is that it would prevent further casualties among the soldiers. But when looking at the options, the second one is not really viable.

Israel must go into Gaza for two primary reasons. The first is that it needs to defend Israel and push the line of contact into enemy territory. The second reason is because the entire region and the whole world is watching. It is true that a ground offensive that sees more casualties and destruction of infrastructure could push Hassan Nasrallah and Hezbollah into the fray, but the alternative, not going in, would be interpreted as a sign of weakness, and Israel cannot afford to appear weak any longer. Alright, that is it for what some generally pro-Israel voices are saying, which brings us to what some generally pro-Palestine voices are saying. Supporters of Palestine say Israel has only its own policies

to blame for the situation it now finds itself in. Others compare the moment to other famous uprisings against oppressive regimes and say that Palestinian fighters' tactics are justified. Palestinian writers say the attack should not come as a surprise to Israel after decades of violent oppression of the Palestinian people. In Al Jazeera, Samdeep Sen said the attack was provoked by Israeli aggression and occupation. Some have called Hamas's attack a colossal failure of the Israeli military and intelligence apparatus. Others, mostly diplomats and political leaders from the West and beyond, have labeled it an unprovoked terrorist act while insisting that Israel has the right to defend itself. But nothing about this operation is surprising or unprovoked. Neither is it just the result of

gaps in Israeli security measures. It is a response that is to be expected from the Palestinian people who have faced Israeli settler colonial rule and occupation for decades, Sen wrote. It is also not surprising that the Palestinian armed factions rely on asymmetric tactics and stealth. That is because they are up against one of the most sophisticated and well-funded armed forces in the world. Gaza has also been under debilitating siege for 16 years, which has taken a heavy toll on its people but has failed to destroy their will to resist, Sen said. But all these years of tragedy and suffering have not killed the Palestinian spirit of resistance. In fact, what appears to be the largest military response by Palestinians in decades was an inevitable development, an act of resistance, and a reaction to the suffering of

the people of Gaza under a brutal blockade and occupation. It is part of the Palestinian struggle for freedom, and it solidifies Gaza's place at blockade and occupation. It is part of the Palestinian struggle for freedom, and it solidifies Gaza's place at the heart of it. In Counterpunch, David Rovix praised the Gaza ghetto uprising, comparing the attack to the Warsaw ghetto uprising in 1943. If half-starving people with no clean water or the ability to travel outside of their ghetto launch any kind of uprising, the obvious context is the fact that they were under siege, living in a walled ghetto, prevented from importing the things they need to survive, and prevented from traveling. This is the obvious reason for any people living in such conditions to rise up against their occupying

power. But instead, we are fed a narrative that begins with the ghetto uprising without any explanation for the basic nature of the situation. That is, an occupying army is forcing people to live and starve in a walled ghetto, Rovick said. Physically fighting back against an occupying army, according to international law that all the countries in the world have signed on to long ago, is justified and is not terrorism. You'd have to be very lucky to tune in during one of the very brief moments when international law might ever be mentioned in one of these Western news stories about this uprising. International law is only apparently relevant when it comes to the Russian invasion of Ukraine or other incidents where it seems convenient to mention. In Middle East Eye, Gaza-based journalist

Maha Hussaini wrote about why Gaza's attack on Israel was no surprise. For Palestinians, being at war is an enduring reality that has shaped their daily lives for the past seven decades. Since the Palestinian Nakba in 1948, which resulted in the forcible displacement of 750,000 Palestinians from their towns and villages, successive Israeli governments have committed hundreds of human rights violations, including ethnic cleansing, apartheid, and mass killings, all of which amount to war crimes, according to international law. While Palestinians have long said that Israel's practices are part of a war waged against their very existence, Israel has managed to get away with its violations, enjoying complete impunity that has lasted for more than 75 years, Hussaini said.

While the attack is described as surprising by many, an escalation of events was undoubtedly expected given Israel's tightening of restrictions and the rise in assaults across the occupied Palestinian territories during the past few months. In the first nine months of 2023 alone, Israel has killed at least 230 Palestinians, a level of violence that has already exceeded the total death toll during 2022. It is also the highest recorded number of casualties in the ongoing conflict between Israel and the Palestinians since 2005, according to the United Nations. This rise in Israeli military and settler brutality signifies an unprecedented level of violence across all the Palestinian territories,

fueled and encouraged by a troubling sense of impunity and a lack of accountability for those responsible. Based on Charles Yu's award-winning book, Interior Chinatown follows the story of Willis Wu, a background character trapped in a police procedural who dreams about a world beyond Chinatown. When he inadvertently becomes a witness to a crime, Willis begins to unravel a criminal web, his family's buried history, and what it feels like to be in the spotlight. Interior Chinatown is streaming November 19th, only on Disney+. The flu remains a serious disease. Last season, over 102,000 influenza cases have been reported across Canada, which is nearly double the historic average of 52,000 cases. What can you do this flu season? Talk to your pharmacist or doctor

about getting a flu shot. Consider FluCellVax Quad and help protect yourself from the flu. It's the first cell-based flu vaccine authorized in Canada for ages six months and older, and it may be available for free in your province. Side effects and allergic reactions can occur, and 100% protection is not guaranteed. Learn more at flucellvax.ca. All right, that is it for what the pro-Palestine and pro-Israel sides are saying. I also want to point to some other takes. The Haaretz editorial board, a liberal Israeli newspaper, criticized Netanyahu for the attack. In the New York Times, Shimrit Amir said that Israelis let internal politics divide and distract them.

Haggai Matar, an Israeli writer, said this was not an unprovoked attack and blamed some of Israel's policies. In Tablet, Liel Leibovitz said America betrayed Israel by trying to strengthen Iran in the Middle East. And in the Washington Post, Da'ad Kutab, a Palestinian journalist, says the U.S. should respond to the attack by recognizing the Palestinian state. All right, that is it for some perspectives on this conflict, which brings us to my take. So people ask me all the time if I am pro-Israel because I am a Jew who has lived in Israel. And my answer is that being pro-Israel or being pro-Palestine or being a Zionist does not properly capture the nuance of thought most people do or should have about this issue. It certainly does not capture mine. I've spent the last 72 hours

writing, texting, and talking to Israelis, Jews, Muslims, and Palestinians. Much of my reaction is going to piss off people on quote-unquote both sides, but I'm exhausted and I'm hurting and I do not think there is any way to discuss this situation without being radically honest about my views. So I'm going to try and say what I believe to be true the best I can. Let me start with this. It could have been me. That's a hard thought to shake when watching the videos out of Israel. The concert goers fleeing across an empty expanse of desert, the hostages being paraded through the streets, the people shot in the head at bus stops or in their cars. I went to those parties in the desert.

I rubbed shoulders with Israelis and Arabs and Jews and Muslims. I could have easily accepted an invitation to some concert near Starot and gone without a care, only to be indiscriminately slaughtered or, God forbid, taken hostage and tortured. I don't believe Hamas is killing Israelis to liberate themselves, nor do I believe they're doing it to make peace. They're doing this because they represent the devil on the shoulder of every oppressed Palestinian who has lost someone in this conflict. They're doing it because they want vengeance, they're evening the score, and acting on the worst of our human impulses to respond to blood with blood, an inclination that is easy to give in to after what their people have endured. It should not be hard

to understand their logic. It is only hard to accept that humans are capable of being driven to this. Not defending Hamas is a very low bar to clear. Please clear it. It's not possible to recap the entire 5,000 yearyear history of people fighting over this strip of land in one newsletter. There are plenty of easily accessible places you can learn about it if you want to, and I've put some links in today's episode description to do so. And by the way, many of you should. Far too many people speak on this issue with an obscene amount of ignorance, loads of arrogance, and a narrow historical lens focused on the last few decades. But I'll briefly highlight a few things that are important to me. In my opinion, the Jewish people have a legitimate historical claim to the land of Israel.

Jews had already been expelled and returned and expelled again a half dozen times before the rise of the Muslim and Arab rules of the Ottoman Empire. Of course, it's messy because we Jews and Arabs and Muslims are all cousins and descendants of the same Canaanites. But Arabs won the land centuries ago the same way Israel and Jews won it in the 20th century, through conflict and war. The British defeated the Ottoman Empire and then came the Balfour Declaration, which amounted to the British granting the area to the Jewish people, a promise they'd later try to renege on, all before the wars that have defined the region since 1948. World War II was a unique moment in history, and in a world with many Arab and Muslim states and after 6

million Jews were slaughtered, the global community felt it was important to grant the Jewish people a homeland. In a more logical or just world, that homeland would have been in Europe as a kind of reparation for what the Nazis and others before them had done to the Jews, or perhaps in the Americas like Alaska or somewhere else. But the Jews wanted Israel. The British had taken to the Zionist movement. The British had conquered the Ottoman Empire, which handed them control of the land. And to put it plainly, America and Europe didn't want the Jews. As a result, we got Israel. The Arab states had already repeatedly rejected a partitioned Israel before World War II and rejected it again after the Holocaust and the end of the war. They did not want to give up even a little bit of their land

to a bunch of Jewish interlopers who were granted it all of a sudden by British interlopers who had arrived a hundred years prior. Who could blame them? It had been centuries since Jews lived there in large numbers, and now they wanted to return in waves as secularized Europeans. Many of us would have probably reacted the same way. So, just as humans have done forever, they fought. The many existing Arab states turned against the burgeoning new Jewish state, They fought. The many existing Arab states turned against the burgeoning new Jewish state, one side won and one side lost. This is the broken and brutal and violent world we live in, but it is what created the global world order we now have. So, are Israelis and British people colonizers because of this 20th century history? Sure. But that view flattens thousands of years of history and conflict, the context of World War I and World War II, and I don't view Israelis and British as colonizers anymore than Assyrians or the Babylonians or the Romans or the Mongols or the Egyptians or the Ottomans who all battled over the same strip of land from as early as 800 years before Jesus' time until now.

Jesus' time until now. The Jews who founded Israel just happened to have won the last big battle for it. You can't speak about this issue in a vacuum. You can't pretend that it wasn't just 60 years ago when Israel was surrounded on all sides by Arab states who wanted to wipe them off the face of the planet. Despite the balance of power shifting this century, that threat is still a reality. And you can't talk about that without remembering the only reason the Jews were in Israel in the first place was that they'd spent the previous centuries fleeing a bunch of Europeans who also wanted to wipe them off of the face of the planet. And then Hitler showed up. Americans have a narrow view of this history and an Ameri-centric lens that is infuriating to witness. As Lee Fang perfectly put it, Hamas would absolutely execute the ACAB lefties sharing

on horrific violence against Israelis if they lived in Gaza, and U.S. right-wingers blindly cheering on Israeli subjugation of Palestinians would rebel twice as violently if Americans were subjected to similar occupation. And yet, many Americans only view modern Israel as the powerful one in this dynamic, which is true. They obviously are. It isn't a fair fight, and it hasn't been for decades because Israel's government is rich and resourceful, has the backing of the United States and most of Europe, and has an incredibly powerful military. At the same time, Israeli leadership has made technological and military advancements that have further tipped those scales, all while the Israeli government has helped create a resource-thin open-air prison of 2 million Arabs in Gaza.

Conversely, Palestinians are devoid of any real unified leadership, and the Arab world is now divided on the issue of Palestine. Israel is unwilling to give the people in Gaza and the West Bank more than an inch of freedom to live. These are largely the refugees and descendants of the refugees of the 1948 and 1967 wars that Israel won. And you can't keep 2 million people in the condition that those in the Gaza Strip live in and not expect events like this. I'm sorry to say that while the blood on the ground is still fresh. The Israelis who were killed in this attack largely have nothing to do with those conditions other than being born at a time when Israel and Jews have the upper hand in this conflict. Some of the victims weren't even Israeli, they were just tourists. This is why we describe them as innocent, and why Hamas has only reaffirmed themselves as a brutal terror organization with

this attack, an organization that I hope is quickly toppled for the sake of both the Palestinian people and the Israelis. But as someone with a deep love for Israel, with friends in danger and people I know still missing, it breaks my heart to say it, but I'm saying it again because it remains perhaps the most salient point of context in a tangled mess full of centuries of context. You cannot keep 2 million people living in the conditions people in Gaza are living in and expect quiet. You can't and you shouldn't. It is antithetical to the human condition. Violent rebellion is guaranteed. Guaranteed. As sure as the sun rising. And the cycle of violence seems locked in to self-perpetuation because both sides see a score to settle. Israel has already responded with a vengeance and they

will continue to. Their desire for violence is not unlike Hamas's. It is just as much about blood for blood as any legitimate security measure. Israel will have the right to respond with force. Toppling Hamas will now be the objective and civilian death will be seen as necessary collateral damage. But Israel will also do a bunch of things they don't have a right to do. They will flatten apartment buildings and kill civilians and children, and many in the global community will probably cheer them on while they do it. They've already stopped the flow of water, electricity, and food to 2 million people and describe Palestinians as human animals. We should never accept this, never lose sight that

this horror is being inflicted on human beings. As the group B'Tselem said, there is no justification for such crimes, whether they are committed as part of a struggle for freedom from oppression or cited as part of a war against terror. I mourn for the innocence of Palestine, just as I do for the innocence of Israel. As late, many, many more have died on their side than Israel's, and many more Palestinians are likely to die in this spate of violence too. Unfortunately, most people in the West Bank only pay attention to this story when Hamas or Palestinians in Gaza or the West Bank commits an act of violence. Palestinian citizens die regularly at the hands of the Israeli

military, and their plight goes largely unnoticed until they respond with violence of their own. Israel had already killed 250 Palestinians, including 47 children, this year alone, and that is just in the West Bank. Every single time Israel kills someone in the name of self-defense, they create a handful of new radicalized extremists who will feel justified in wanting to take an Israeli life and retribution sometime in the future. Half of Gaza's 2 million people are under the age of 19. They know little besides Hamas rule since 2006, Israeli occupation, blockades, and rockets falling from the sky. The suffering of these innocent children born into this reality is incomprehensible to me. They will suffer more now because of Hamas's actions and Israel's response, all through no fault of their own.

There is no way out of this pattern until one side exercises restraint or leaders on both sides find a new solution. Israelis will tell you that if Palestinians put their guns down, then the war would end, but if Israel put their guns down, they'd be wiped off the planet. I don't have a crystal ball, and I can't tell you what is true. But what I am certain of is that every time Israel kills more innocents, they engender more rage and hatred and recruit more Palestinians and Arabs to the cause against them. There is no disputing this. So why did this happen now? I'm not sure how to answer that question, except to say it was bound to happen eventually. It was a massive policy and intelligence failure and Netanyahu should pay the price, politically. He is a failed leader. Iran probably helped organize the attack and the money freed up by the Biden administration's prisoner swap probably didn't help the situation

either. Israel's increasingly extremist government and settlers provoking Palestinians probably didn't help, nor is going to the Al-Aqsa Mosque and desecrating it, nor do blockades and bombings and indiscriminate subjugation of a whole people, nor does refusing to talk to non-terrorist leaders in Palestine, nor does illegally continuing to expand and steal what is left of Palestinian land as many Jews and Israelis have been doing in the 21st century, despite cries from the global community. A violent response was predictable. In fact, plenty of people did predict it. Israel is forever stuffing these people into tinier and tinier boxes with fewer and fewer resources. But if you want to blame Israeli leaders for continuing to expand and settle land that does not belong to them as I do, then you should also spare some blame for Palestinian leaders for repeatedly not accepting a partitioned Israel during the 20th

century that could have led to peace, as I do. Please also remember this. Hamas is an extremist group. The Palestinian people do not have a government or leaders who legitimately represent their interests, and it sure as hell is in Hamas. Will some Palestinians cheer and clap at the dead or spit on them as they are paraded through Gaza? Yes, they will, and they have. Many will also mourn because they loathe Hamas, and they know this will only make things worse for everybody. This is no different than how some Americans cheer at the dead in every single war we've ever fought. It's no different than the Israelis who set up lawn chairs to watch their government bomb Palestine and cheer them on too. This doesn't mean Palestinians or Israelis or Americans are evil. It means some of them are giving in to their violent impulses

and their zealous feelings of righteous vengeance. Solutions, you ask? I can't say I have any. If you came here for that, I'm sorry. The two-state solution looks dead to me. A three-state solution makes some sense, but feels out of the view of all the people who matter and can make it happen. I wish a one-state solution felt realistic. A world of Israelis and Arabs and Muslims and Jews living side by side with equal rights, fully integrated and diffused of their hate, is a version of Israel that I would adore, but it seems less and less realistic with every new spate of violence. Am I pro-Israel or pro-Palestine? I have no idea. I'm pro-not killing civilians. I'm pro-not trapping millions of people in open-air prisons. I'm pro-not shooting grandmas in the back of the

head. I'm pro-not flattening apartment complexes. I'm pro-not raping women and taking hostages. I'm pro not flattening apartment complexes. I'm pro not raping women and taking hostages. I'm pro not unjustly imprisoning people without due process. I'm pro freedom and pro peace and pro all the things we never see in this conflict anymore. Whatever this is, I want none of it. All right, everybody, that is it for my take today. We are skipping our reader question.

As always, if you want to write in, you can do that by writing to me at Isaac, I-S-A-A-C at readtangle.com. You can also use that email if you want to share some feedback to today's piece. Like I said, we're going to publish a reader reaction piece on Friday. on Friday. In the interest of space, we're also skipping our under the radar story. So I'm going to jump ahead to our numbers section. The percentage of Americans who say their sympathies are more with the Palestinians than the Israelis is now 49%, according to the latest Gallup poll. The percentage of Americans who say their sympathies are more with the Israelis than the Palestinians is 38%, according to the latest Gallup poll. In 2014, the percentage of Americans who said their sympathies were more with the Palestinians than the Israelis was just 23%, while in 2014, the percentage of Americans who said their sympathies were more with the Israelis was 58%. The number of Israeli soldiers who have been

killed in the latest violence is 120. The number of Palestinian fighters Israel says it has killed in the latest violence is 1,500. The number of Israelis that died in the attacks by Hamas was 900. The number of Palestinians that have been killed in retaliatory strikes in Gaza was 687. Before the latest conflict, the number of Israelis that have been killed in the conflict since 2008 was 300. Before the latest conflict, the number of Palestinians that have been killed in the conflict since 2008 was 6,400. All right, that is it for our numbers section. And I want to wrap up today with a have a nice day story that is a little personal. In the days since this attack on Israel, I've personally had three conversations with Palestinians or Palestinian Americans. Each of them has been rewarding, educational and healing in more ways than I can ever hope to capture here.

One was a video chat with a Tangle reader. than I can ever hope to capture here. One was a video chat with a Tangle reader, and after spending an hour sharing our different views, we exchanged phone numbers to keep in touch and keep building our relationship, each sharing how we felt better than we did before the conversation started. Despite all the news about this violence and the divisions,

there are swaths of people across this conflict working to build bridges. I personally participated in groups like Ultimate Peace, which brings Israelis and Palestinians together through the sport of Ultimate Frisbee. But there are other groups, like the Alliance for Middle East Peace, Peace Now,

and the American Friends of the Parents Circle Families Forum. I encourage you to explore these groups during this time of division. We've left links to all of them in today's episode description. All right, that is it for today's episode. Thank you all for listening. I hope you had a great holiday break if you got some time off on Monday.

We'll be right back here at the same time tomorrow. Have a good one. Peace. Our podcast is written by me, Isaac Saul, and edited by John Long. Peace. was produced by Diet 75. For more on Tangle, please go to readtangle.com and check out our website. Based on Charles Yu's award-winning book, Interior Chinatown follows the story of Willis Wu, Thanks for watching. buried history, and what it feels like to be in the spotlight. Interior Chinatown is streaming November 19th, only on Disney+. The flu remains a serious disease. Last season, over 102,000 influenza cases have been reported across Canada, which is nearly double the historic average of 52,000 cases. What can you do this flu season?

Talk to your pharmacist or doctor about getting a flu shot. Consider FluCellVax Quad and help protect yourself from the flu. It's the first cell-based flu vaccine authorized in Canada for ages 6 months and older, Thank you.