Tangle - The Daniel Penny charges.

Starting point is 00:00:00 Based on Charles Yu's award-winning book, Interior Chinatown follows the story of Willis Wu, a background character trapped in a police procedural who dreams about a world beyond Chinatown. When he inadvertently becomes a witness to a crime, Willis begins to unravel a criminal web, his family's buried history, and what it feels like to be in the spotlight.

Starting point is 00:00:19 Interior Chinatown is streaming November 19th, only on Disney+. Chinatown is streaming November 19th, only on Disney+. From executive producer Isaac Saul, this is Tangle. Good morning, good afternoon, and good evening, and welcome to the Tangle Podcast, the place we get views from across the political spectrum and some independent thinking without all that hysterical nonsense you find everywhere else. I'm your host, Isaac Saul, and on today's episode, we are going to be talking about the Daniel Penny charges in the New York City subway case where Penny was seen putting Jordan Neely

Starting point is 00:01:07 in a chokehold. We're going to break down what the charges are and some of the reactions to them in today's newsletter. Before we do, as always, we'll start off with some quick hits. First up, special counsel John Durham released his long-awaited report on Monday, sharply criticizing the FBI's basis for launching an investigation into Trump and calling it, quote, seriously flawed. Number two, aides to Representative Jerry Connolly, the Democrat from Virginia, were hospitalized after an assailant attacked them at the district office with a baseball bat. Number three, the Supreme Court agreed to hear a case examining whether South

Starting point is 00:01:50 Carolina's congressional map discriminated against Black people and constituted a racial gerrymander. Number four, China sentenced a 78-year-old U.S. citizen to life in prison on espionage charges. Number five, Ukraine said it shot down 18 missiles aimed at Kiev after an exceptional air attack on its capital. The Marine veteran seen on video placing Jordan Neely, a homeless man, in a chokehold on the New York City subway has surrendered to authorities. The Manhattan District Attorney's Office is charging Daniel Penny with second-degree manslaughter. Penny surrendered to New York City police this morning. He was formally arrested and processed before a scheduled arraignment.

Starting point is 00:02:42 It was adjusted and processed before a scheduled arraignment. This morning, attorneys for 24-year-old Marine veteran Daniel Penny are defending his decision to put Jordan Neely in a chokehold on a New York subway train. He was fearful for the safety of those passengers. So when he acted, his mindset was to keep his fellow passengers safe from attack. Daniel Penny, who was seen putting Jordan Neely in a chokehold on a New York subway on May 1st, was charged with second-degree manslaughter on Thursday, the Manhattan District Attorney's Office said. Penny could face as many as 15 years in prison. Shortly after turning himself in, he was released on a $100,000 bond. Penny did not enter a plea,

Starting point is 00:03:24 as the charges will go before a grand jury who will decide whether or not to indict him. The encounter between Penny and Neely began after Neely was begging for food on an F-Line train and began acting erratically, according to witnesses. Several witnesses said Neely was making threats to passengers, insisting that he didn't care if he died or went to jail. Penny, a 24-year-old Marine, approached Neely from behind and placed him in a chokehold. He then kept him in the hold for several minutes as two other passengers on the train helped him restrain Neely on the ground. A video of what happened next was posted online by an independent journalist.

Starting point is 00:03:59 About 30 seconds into the video, Neely tries to break free of Penny's grip while two others help hold him down. One of the people helping restrain Neely asks if anyone has called the cops. Around two minutes into the video, Neely goes limp. A witness tells the man restraining Neely that he has defecated himself and that they are going to kill him and should let him go. One of the men helping restrain Neely responds that it was an old stain and that Penny isn't squeezing his neck any longer. The man holding Neely's arms then releases him and asks Neely if he can hear him. He does not respond and Penny then lets him go before rolling him over onto his side in what's called a recovery position, which is meant to stop someone who is unconscious from choking on their own saliva.

Starting point is 00:04:39 Near the very end of the video, with Neely on his side, he appears to take a large breath. Medics arrived on the scene and could not revive Neely, who is pronounced dead at the hospital. The New York City Medical Examiner's Office determined that Neely died from compression of the neck and ruled his death a homicide. Neely, who is known to some New York commuters as a Michael Jackson impersonator, was also well known to New York police and social services. He was on a list of 50 homeless people in the city with the most acute needs and had been arrested 42 times, including three charges of unprovoked assaults between 2019 and 2021. People who knew Neely said that his mental health challenges began in 2007 when he was just 14 years old, after his

Starting point is 00:05:22 mother was killed by her boyfriend. Video of Penny, who is white, choking Neely, who is black, immediately went viral. It set off an intense debate about policing, mental illness, race, vigilantism, and homelessness, with some praising Penny as a hero for protecting passengers and others describing him as a murderer who overreacted. The case sparked protests across New York and in the subways, with demonstrators calling for Penny to be arrested. Meanwhile, a GoFundMe campaign to support Penny has raised over $2 million. There was no attack, Dante Mills, an attorney representing Neely, told reporters. Mr. Neely did not attack anyone. He did not touch anyone. He did not hit

Starting point is 00:06:02 anyone. But he was choked to death, and that can't stand. That can't be what we represent. Thomas Kenneth, who was representing Penny, insisted Neely was threatening Penny and other passengers and that more information would come to light during the case that would absolve Penny of any wrongdoing. There have been some video that's out. It's not all out. There's more to come, he said. I'm confident that everything that will come out will show that my client took reasonable steps to restrain someone. The decision to bring manslaughter charges by District Attorney Alvin Bragg's office was a point of contention on its own, with some wanting murder charges and others saying that Penny should not have been charged at

Starting point is 00:06:39 all. First-degree manslaughter is defined as an intentional act, while second-degree manslaughter, the charges brought against Penny, requires reckless negligence for human life. Prosecutors in New York will now convene a grand jury, which will decide whether to indict Penny and bring his case to trial, potentially change the charges, or drop them altogether. Penny turned over his passport and is not allowed to leave the state. His next court appearance is July 17th. Today, we're going to examine some arguments about the decision to charge Penny with second-degree manslaughter from the right and the left, and then my take. First up, we'll start with what the left is saying.

Starting point is 00:07:35 The left is supportive of the charges and argue there was no justification for Penny's actions. Some call out conservatives who have tried to make Penny a hero and Neely the bad guy. Others say we need a national reckoning on mental health. The New York Daily News editorial board said these charges seem about right. Set aside the chance on the far left claiming Jordan Neely was lynched on May 1st and the equally unhelpful claim that Daniel Penny did what any responsible citizen could be expected to do, the board said. There should be criminal culpability for Penny's killing of Neely, and the second-degree manslaughter charges brought by Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg seem to get it about right. Based on what we know, the Marine recklessly applied force that he should have known could well result in Neely's death.

Starting point is 00:08:16 Two things are true. One, Neely had a history of mental problems and hurting people, and it's not surprising, nor inherently wrong, that someone intervened. and hurting people, and it's not surprising, nor inherently wrong, that someone intervened. Two, Penny applied disproportionate force in the form of a prolonged chokehold that didn't just subdue Neely, but ended his life. We have questioned Bragg's judgment many times, but on this he appears to have met his responsibility to do justice. In The New Republic, Prem Thakur criticized conservatives who think it's anti-hero to arrest Daniel Penny for killing Jordan Neely. The right is somehow arguing that arresting someone for manslaughter is actually pro-criminal, Thakur said. Since the announcement of charges against Penny, right-wing figures have advanced ludicrous and vicious ideas about it all, claiming the arrest

Starting point is 00:09:00 of Penny to be unjust, the most bizarre among them being that to arrest Penny is to be pro-crime. It's pro-criminal, it's anti-hero, Fox host Greg Gutfeld said on Thursday. They are advancing the notion, sans brain or soul, that Penny's arrest symbolizes the state punishing an individual for being a hero and for sticking up against evil, Thacker wrote. If there's anything repressive or authoritarian about this case, it's not that someone is being charged for killing. It's our reaction to the already senseless killing of a homeless man who embodies the millions of people our society fails and leaves in the dust. There are corrupt power structures to be confronted in our society. Do try looking for the ones that pit you against your fellow human beings, the one happy for you

Starting point is 00:09:43 to assume the worst in others who are more like you than you realize. In the Los Angeles Times, LZ Granderson said this is just the start. Daniel Penny, a 24-year-old ex-Marine, crushed Neely's windpipe while trying to protect people who might not have been in any immediate danger. It's all awful. Neely's lifeless body left lying in his own feces on the floor of the F train, a tragic ending to a story already riddled with tragedy, Granderson wrote. This isn't so much a story about race as it is a story about a failing mental health system, given Neely sought out treatment for himself on numerous occasions. As tragic as the story of Neely is, it's not rare. Most cities have mentally ill people living on the streets, and sometimes they die there.

Starting point is 00:10:27 Sometimes they harm others, as Neely did. And sometimes they are the ones who are harmed, as he also was. Neely didn't deserve to die, that much we know, Granderson said. Neely's story should be viewed with a wider lens and prompt the kind of urgency we had after 9-11 or the war in Ukraine to devote funding to better mental health care. If nothing more comes out of this than a conviction, his death becomes even more tragic. All right, that is it for the leftist saying, which brings us to what the right is saying. Many on the right criticize District Attorney Bragg for ignoring other crimes in New York City,

Starting point is 00:11:11 though some believe there is justification for the charges. Others argue that the charges are unnecessary and only happening because of progressive activism. Some say Bragg has turned his back on the violence in his own city. The Wall Street Journal editorial board criticized Bragg for bringing these charges when he ignores other crime. Alvin Bragg, who refuses to prosecute many crimes, has decided to use this as a public example. Neely was all too typical of the mentally ill who wander New York streets and are well known to the police. Decades ago, the U.S. made a decision to end the institutionalization of all but the most dangerous mentally ill, but too many of them now wander the streets and occasionally turn violent, the board said. Was Mr. Penny wrong to intervene? The details of what happened will presumably be

Starting point is 00:11:56 presented at trial, but it's clear his intention wasn't to kill Neely. It was to protect himself and others. Based on Charles Yu's award-winning book, Interior Chinatown follows the story of Willis Wu, a background character trapped in a police procedural who dreams about a world beyond Chinatown. When he inadvertently becomes a witness to a crime, Willis begins to unravel a criminal web, his family's buried history,

Starting point is 00:12:21 and what it feels like to be in the spotlight. Interior Chinatown is streaming November 19th, only on Disney+. Perhaps he felt the responsibility as a 24-year-old veteran. We sometimes call such men good Samaritans when they intervene to stop a shooter or step between a young woman and a harasser. Even if Mr. Penny is acquitted by a jury, the charges against him will surely deter other potential Samaritans from intervening to subdue a seemingly dangerous person or even to stop a robbery or assault. If you do and something goes wrong in New York, you will be the one prosecuted. In National Review, Andrew McCarthy said New York City does not have a justice system,

Starting point is 00:13:02 but a political system run by race-obsessed progressives. It is certainly possible that there is, technically, a law violation, McCarthy said. Penny's use of force was lawful at the start. That is why he was helped in subduing Neely by other passengers. That is why, still, other passengers on the train expressed gratitude that Penny had the courage to act when Neely was threatening them. At a certain point, though, Neely was subdued. While civilian is still allowed to use force necessary to detain a threatening person until the police arrive, the force has to be proportionate to the threat. Penny was protecting himself and passengers, and he was put in that position by Neely, a predatory, mentally unstable career criminal with over 40 arrests to his name who was fresh

Starting point is 00:13:44 off a stretch in Rikers Island for punching an old woman in the face, breaking her nose and eye socket, and who habitually harassed and threatened subway riders, McCarthy said. A reasonable prosecutor would conclude that though Neely's death, like his life, was tragic, a jury of Manhattan subway riders would probably not convict Penny of manslaughter. But for the Progressive Prosecutor Project, the only fact that matters is racial disparity. Neely was black and Penny is white, so Penny must be charged. In the New York Post, Bob McManus said Alvin Bragg didn't trust a grand jury to do his bidding. In less bizarre times, that is, before America lost its bearings on matters of crime,

Starting point is 00:14:30 criminals, and simple justice itself, the case would not be complicated. A vagrant was menacing subway passengers, a strap hanger reacted, the vagrant died, and a grand jury could be trusted to do the right thing, McManus said. No one disputes that Neely was aggressively threatening strap hangers. A witness said he yelled, I would kill a motherfucker. I don't care. I'll take a bullet. I'll go to jail. Uncountable numbers of New Yorkers have been in such circumstances and surely they relate. This is what happens when a district attorney turns his back on violent predation. Jordan Neely happens, often enough so that reasonable people enter the subway system wondering when it will be their turn, he wrote, and wondering further whether Alvin Bragg will go after them if they dare to fight back. Justice? Not at all.

Starting point is 00:15:19 All right, that is it for the left and the right are saying, which brings us to my take. So my take today is going to be pretty short. These charges are appropriate, and this is the system working. Whether you believe Penny is a good Samaritan hero or a racist killer is almost relevant. Clearly, New Yorkers are divided. But the only thing that matters is the law. Someone was killed. The medical examiner's office ruled Anneli's death a homicide by compression of the neck. Penny administered the chokehold that compressed Neely's neck.

Starting point is 00:15:51 It seems obvious he did not intend to kill Neely, so he is not a murderer and not guilty of first-degree manslaughter. The question is whether his actions constitute negligence and reckless disregard for Neely's life, and the proper forum to resolve that question is a courtroom. If Penny goes to trial, witnesses from the train car will be called to testify. Their perception of what happened will matter a great deal. How threatening was Neely? Did he do anything we didn't know about? Was he just calming down as Penny restrained him, or was he becoming increasingly threatening? Did he attempt to hurt anyone on the train, or did he do little aside from asking for food and water? These questions can only be

Starting point is 00:16:29 answered by witnesses. Writers like Andrew McCarthy, under what the right is saying, make great points about the flaws of the prosecutorial system and Alvin Bragg more specifically. But McCarthy ignores the fact that a huge chunk of New Yorkers, Penny's fellow citizens, view what he did as criminal. It's not just progressive activists who want the DA to bring charges, and it's disingenuous to pretend so. New York law says a person is guilty of manslaughter in the second degree if they recklessly cause the death of another person. Reckless is defined this way, quote, a person acts recklessly with respect to result or a circumstance described

Starting point is 00:17:05 by a statute defining an offense when he is aware of and consciously disregards a substantial and unjustifiable risk that such result will occur or that such circumstances exist. The risk must be of such nature and degree that disregard thereof constitutes a gross deviation from the standard of conduct that a reasonable person would observe in this situation. Whatever his other flaws, and there are plenty, Bragg chose the right charges to bring in this specific case, and I suspect the grand jury will pursue them. Penny is out on bail, as is his right, and the judge's discretion there was correct. He is very unlikely to be a flight risk or a threat to anyone

Starting point is 00:17:45 else. As I wrote previously, I think the more details we get, the better we'll understand if his decision to intervene was warranted or not. From the video alone, I believe his actions were excessive. At least a few of the fellow subway riders seemed to agree, but a few didn't. We don't know enough to confidently convict based on those details alone, which is exactly why a trial is necessary. It's not a popular thing to say in a moment like this, but I actually think this is the justice system working. In fact, this is the justice system working about as well as it could. Nobody should be able to kill someone without being tried for a crime.

Starting point is 00:18:21 Penny is innocent until proven guilty, and the charges reflect the reality that at worst, he unintentionally took Neely's life. Now, we need to uncover more evidence and allow Penny's peers to examine his actions. The second-degree manslaughter charges provide the best way to do that. All right, that is it for my take, which brings us to your questions answered. This one's from Shelly in Burlington, North Dakota. Shelly said, I asked once before and received no response, so I'm asking again. Why don't you cover Missouri versus Biden? The attorney general of Missouri is accusing Biden and his family of quietly using their influence to silence social media posts that

Starting point is 00:19:05 they believe were politically damaging to their political careers. Is this not true? Okay, so first I want to be clear what Missouri v. Biden is about. This case is not about Biden and his family quietly using their influence to silence social media posts damaging to their political careers. I think that description actually reflects how distorted the facts about this case have become. Second, we are not ignoring it. It is actually a case about the government, beginning in the Trump era, pressuring social media companies

Starting point is 00:19:35 to silence quote-unquote vaccine misinformation. The litigants are arguing that this pressure campaign amounted to free speech violations, which then continued and escalated under the Biden administration. We have covered a similar story about government intervention and social media companies related to the Hunter Biden laptop many times in this newsletter. If you want, you can read a piece which we link to in today's episode description from one of the lawyers in the case who is suing the government. It is obviously a one-sided argument about the case,

Starting point is 00:20:03 but presents the main points about the facts of the case accurately and explains why it is so significant. All that being said, the case is still in its very early stages. We have a limited number of newsletters and an infinite number of topics. As this case moves through the court system, more evidence is presented and it becomes more and more relevant. I'm sure that we will cover it. is presented and it becomes more and more relevant. I'm sure that we will cover it. All right, that is it for your questions answered, which brings us to our under the radar section. President Biden and New York Mayor Eric Adams are on the outs. Adams was long expected to be a key surrogate for the 2024 campaign, but the president and Adams have become so crossways that he was dropped from Biden's 2024 campaign advisory board before it was announced last week, Axios reported. Adams, mayor of the biggest city in the U.S., has been a harsh critic

Starting point is 00:20:57 of Biden's immigration policies and positions on crime. His criticisms have been echoed by many Democratic state and city officials, and it's possible the feud could become a major issue for the Biden campaign. Axios has the story, and there's a link to it in today's episode description. All right, next up is our numbers section. In a May 8th survey, the percentage of Tangle readers who said, I think Daniel Penny was right to intervene but went too far and should be charged with a crime was 36.98%. The percentage of Tangle readers who said, I think Daniel Penny was right to intervene and should not be charged with a crime was 25.43%. The percentage of Tangle readers who said, I think Daniel Penny was wrong to intervene and should be charged with a crime was 11.66%.

Starting point is 00:21:48 And the percentage who said, I think Daniel Penny was wrong to intervene, but I don't think he should be charged with a crime was 3.31%. 21.9% of Tangle readers said they were unsure, had no opinion, or answered other. All right, that is it for our numbers section, which brings us to our have a nice day story. The Illinois General Assembly passed a bill to ensure certain classes taken at community colleges can be transferred to any higher education institutes in the state. The bill is an effort to help ensure community college students can transfer to public universities

Starting point is 00:22:21 without having to retake classes or start from behind. Right now, some schools only count community college coursework as elective credits. Lawmakers say the bill should help students save money on college education and graduate sooner. They spend a great deal of time and money attending community college for various reasons, and now they have the opportunity to make sure that they don't have to repeat a class and spend more money at a new institution, said state representative Tara Costa Howard. The bill is similar to a bipartisan push happening in the Senate.

Starting point is 00:22:50 My state line has a story and there's a link to it in today's episode description. All right, everybody, that is it for today's podcast. As always, if you want to support our work, please go to readtangle.com slash membership and consider becoming a member. We'll be right back here same time tomorrow. Have a good one. Peace. Our podcast is written by me, Isaac Saul, and edited by John Law. Our script is edited by Ari Weitzman, Bailey Saul, and Sean Brady. The logo for our podcast was designed by

Starting point is 00:23:25 Magdalena Bukova, who's also our social media manager. Music for the podcast was produced by Diet 75. For more on Tangle, please go to readtangle.com and check out our website. We'll see you next time. trapped in a police procedural who dreams about a world beyond Chinatown. When he inadvertently becomes a witness to a crime, Willis begins to unravel a criminal web, his family's buried history, and what it feels like to be in the spotlight. Interior Chinatown is streaming November 19th, only on Disney+.

Tangle - The Daniel Penny charges.

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