Tangle - The fraud lawsuit against Trump.

Episode Date: September 26, 2022

We're covering the New York attorney general's lawsuit into Trump. Plus, a question about food prices.You can read today's podcast here, today’s “Under the Radar” story here, and today’s “Have a nice day” story here.Today’s clickables: Quick hits (3:14), Today’s story (4:10), Right’s take (13:30), Left’s take (8:51), Isaac’s take (18:22), Listener question (22:34), Under the Radar (24:40), Numbers (25:50), Have a nice day (26:27)You can subscribe to Tangle by clicking here or drop something in our tip jar by clicking here.Our podcast is written by Isaac Saul and produced by Trevor Eichhorn. Music for the podcast was produced by Diet 75.Our newsletter is edited by Bailey Saul, Sean Brady, Ari Weitzman, and produced in conjunction with Tangle’s social media manager Magdalena Bokowa, who also created our logo.--- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/tanglenews/message Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Based on Charles Yu's award-winning book, Interior Chinatown follows the story of Willis Wu, a background character trapped in a police procedural who dreams about a world beyond Chinatown. When he inadvertently becomes a witness to a crime, Willis begins to unravel a criminal web, his family's buried history, and what it feels like to be in the spotlight.

Interior Chinatown is streaming November 19th, only on Disney+. Chinatown is streaming November 19th, only on Disney+. From executive producer Isaac Saul, this is Tangle. Good morning, good afternoon, and good evening, and welcome to the Tangle Podcast, the place where you get views from across the political spectrum, some independent thinking, without all that hysterical nonsense you find everywhere else. I'm your host, Isaac Saul, and on today's episode, we are going to be talking about Donald Trump and the lawsuit that was just filed last week by Attorney

General Letitia James in New York. Some interesting stuff going on there. And yeah, we also have a pretty good question about food prices across the U.S. and the world that we're going to jump into. Before we do, though, a couple of things. First of all, Shana Tova, I want to say Happy New Year. This is last night marked the beginning of the Jewish New Year. I'm a Jew, so, you know, I'm celebrating tonight with some of my family and friends. Wanted to wish all my Jewish brethren listening a sweet and happy new year. No matter your religious affiliation, though, you know, I love holidays like this. Time to take stock, check in with family and friends, excuse to drink some wine, eat some honey, thinking about the months ahead and just wishing everyone a

happy new year. Also, I wanted to call out something pretty cool that happened. I did not know this. It happened a few months ago, but we got a rating. Tangle got a rating from all sides, which as many of you know, probably is a website that rates the bias of media outlets. Pretty nerve wracking thing to happen when you are a media outlet that is trying to bring balance and sanity to the world. But I was thrilled to see that they gave us a center bias right down the middle, a strike. This is the quote they put in, an independent review of Tangle in May of 2022 conducted by AllSides managing editor Henry Brechter, who has a center bias himself, noted a strong effort to present both sides of issues in

a non-sensational and respectful way. That's pretty nice, man. That's rewarding to get that. On top of our placement with the AdFonts Media Bias Chart, which has just barely a smidge right of center. I actually can't really tell if it's right of center because our logo is kind of long. It's just like a little bit to the right on their graph, but we are in the middle or balanced bias. And it says we have a complex analysis or mix of fact and reporting analysis, which is what we have, a mix of fact and opinion and analysis. So I'm thrilled to see these ratings coming in. It's cool. And I bring it up because we are headed into midterm season and we are trying to get the word out about Tangle right now. We are on a huge campaign to do

that. So if you want to spread the word, this is a good time to do it. We've got the credibility of two of the biggest media bias rating companies out there. All right, so with that out of the way, let's jump in with some quick hits. First up, Israeli Prime Minister Yair Lapid called for a two-state solution with Palestine at the United Nations on Thursday, the first time an Israeli Prime Minister has supported such a proposal in years. Number two, Syrian authorities said they found 77 migrants who were killed after a boat from Lebanon sunk off the country's coast. 20 survivors were being treated. Number three, Italy elected a nationalist populist coalition of leaders led by Giorgia Maloney as their new government. Maloney could become the nation's first female

parliamentary leader. Number four, Florida Governor Ron DeSantis declared a state of emergency over the weekend as Hurricane Ian approaches the coast. Number five, Arizona ruled the state can impose a near total ban on abortions after it lifted a block on a law that was passed before Roe v. Wade. New York Attorney General Letitia James today filed an over 200 page civil fraud lawsuit against former President Trump, several of his children, business partners in the Trump Organization. I'd say he needs a good lawyer, but that's been true for a while now. For $250 million, accusing the Trump family of, quote, staggering fraud in a sweeping civil suit and looking to ban them from doing business in New York. The lawsuit accuses the Trump family of grossly inflating the former president's net

worth by billions of dollars, cheating lenders and submitting misleading financial statements. On Wednesday, New York Attorney General Letitia James filed a civil fraud lawsuit against former President Donald Trump, three of his adult children, that's Donald Jr., Eric and Ivanka, and his company in a Manhattan court. James, a Democrat and outspoken Trump critic, alleged that the family engaged in a decades-long scheme to falsely value their assets, mislead banks, and help them generate as much as $250 million in quote ill-gotten gains, as the Wall Street Journal put it. A quick reminder, since I know this is a little bit confusing, Trump is also being investigated by

federal prosecutors over the January 6th riots, by the D.C. Attorney General over alleged financial fraud on the Presidential Inaugural Committee, by the Fulton County, Georgia District Attorney over alleged criminal election interference in Georgia, by the Securities Exchange Commission over alleged rules violations and plans to take his social media company public through a SPAC, by the Congressional House Select Committee over January 6th, and of course by the Justice Department for allegedly mishandling the classified intelligence materials recently recovered from Mar-a-Lago. There was also a separate investigation by the Manhattan District Attorney over financial fraud at the Trump Organization, though two top prosecutors resigned from that

investigation, which called its future into doubt. Last month, the former Trump Organization chief financial officer also pleaded guilty to a 15-count indictment and admitted to a multi-year tax evasion scheme and a separate lawsuit. However, all of those investigations are different from this one. The new civil filing relates to a three-year investigation by James, who questioned Trump under oath in August. Trump pleaded the fifth repeatedly in the interview. James alleges in the filing that Trump's financial statements included 200 false and misleading valuations across 23 properties and assets between 2011 and 2021. This investigation was prompted by the congressional testimony of Michael Cohen,

Trump's former personal attorney, who told lawmakers in 2019 that Trump frequently misrepresented his wealth for financial gain. The complaint demonstrates that Donald Trump falsely inflated his net worth by billions of dollars to unjustly enrich himself and cheat the system, James said at a press conference. Trump responded on social media by calling the lawsuit a witch hunt, and a spokesperson for the Trump responded on social media by calling the lawsuit a witch hunt, and a spokesperson for the Trump organization said it was the culmination of nearly three years of persistent, targeted, unethical political harassment. The former president and his legal team have tried to delay the investigation, or halt it entirely over the last three years.

In April, Trump was held in contempt for refusing to comply with a subpoena. This is a civil case, meaning that even in a worst-case scenario for Trump or his family, they would not end up in prison but would instead face serious financial repercussions. James is seeking $250 million in financial penalties and an independent monitor for the Trump Organization. She's also hoping to revoke the right of Trump or his children to serve as officers of any company in New York State and to prohibit the Trump Organization from making any commercial real estate acquisitions for five years. Today, we're going to take a look at some reactions to the lawsuit from the left is saying. The left generally believes it's obvious

the alleged crimes took place and hopes James can impose a strong penalty against Trump. Some say Trump's years of fraudulent claims and exaggerations are finally catching up with him. Others say James has a strong hand to land a civil conviction against Trump. Some say Trump's years of fraudulent claims and exaggerations are finally catching up with him. Others say James has a strong hand to land a civil conviction against Trump. In Slate, Ben Mathis-Lilley summarized some of the alleged crimes. One, playing games with estimates of the value of Trump-owned land in New York State and at Mar-a-Lago that he promised not to develop in exchange for a conservation easement tax break, he wrote. In the former case, Trump is accused of receiving tax credits that would have been much smaller if

the land had been valued accurately. In the latter, he's accused of promising the government that he wouldn't develop certain land and then estimating in personal statements given to financial institutions what it'd be worth if he did develop it. He also understated the value of Trump International Hotel and Tower in Las Vegas in order to pay less in property taxes, exaggerating the value and potential value of various Trump properties so that Deutsche Bank's personal wealth division would give him favorable deals on loans secured by his net worth and personal guarantee. Flat out lying to a company that provided Trump organizations with sure T-bonds and another company that ensured the organizations against litigation risks about whether Trump's financial statements had been prepared by third parties.

They hadn't been, and whether he and his businesses were the subject of any ongoing governmental litigation that could lead to investigations, they were. The best guess of legal experts about whether her office can obtain a verdict against him at trial seems to be maybe, but maybe not. In Bloomberg, Timothy O'Brien said Trump and his spurious business face a reckoning. Trump, a wildly insecure man, has spent most of his 76 years inflating his wealth, achievements, and abilities, but James' civil lawsuit, more than 280 pages long, is the first time his carnival-esque business practices have exposed him to existential legal consequences. James's suit won't land the Trumps in prison, only criminal convictions could do that, but it seeks to bar the Trumps from running a business in New York State and may unravel the Trump organization, he wrote. Now, for the second time

in his career, he has put the family's business legacy on the precipice. Trash canning the New York remnants of what his father started about a century ago will weigh on Trump, regardless of whatever he says about it. The Trumps have characterized James' investigation as a political vendetta. An Appalachian court judge already disagreed with that assessment last spring and allowed the Attorney General's prosecution to proceed, O'Brien said. A civil case holds advantages for James. She won't have to prove to a jury that Trump intended to break the law, the high bar prosecutors must overcome in a criminal case. Trump and his son Eric also refused to answer questions posed by James' prosecutors during depositions. The Trumps

chose to invoke the Fifth Amendment's protection against self-incrimination hundreds of times, which can be used against them in a civil jury trial, something James couldn't do in a criminal case. In Politico, Renato Mariotti said James has a winning hand. James' lawsuit is full of seemingly damning evidence outlining a wide-ranging scheme to defraud lenders by vastly inflating the value of Trump's assets, Mariotti said. This is a pretty common fraud scheme. Fraud is when you lie to someone to get their money, and a common way to defraud lenders is to lie about the value of the assets used as collateral, or in this case, the assets of the person who personally guaranteed the loan, to make the loan less risky than it seemed to be.

James alleges that Trump and his kids did this approximately 200 times between 2011 and 2021, sometimes inflating the value of properties by as much as tenfold to secure more generous loans and insurance coverage as well as tax benefits. When I was a federal prosecutor, I frequently prosecuted bank fraud that looked similar to what Trump and his company allegedly did, he wrote. I even put away a rich real estate mogul who defrauded his lender. It's not an unusual fact pattern to see. What is impressive is the sheer size of the scheme. Trump allegedly obtained $250 million via fraud over a 10-year period, and the various machinations he used to inflate the values of his holding was extensive. James alleged that Trump exaggerated the square

footage of his triplex apartment in Trump Tower, claiming it was 30,000 square feet rather than its actual size of 11,000 square feet, and therefore should be valued at $327 million rather than $80 million. It's a price, James noted, that no apartment in what the left is saying, which brings us to what the right is saying. The right says the lawsuit was politically motivated and questions whether a conviction can be landed. Some say it should be thrown out because of James' obvious political partisanship. Some say it should be thrown out because of James' obvious political partisanship. Others contend James lacks both evidence and a victim. The New York Post editorial said James' allegations are just political theater.

The details are jaw-dropping, yet no surprise to anyone who listened to Trump boast about how he's the richest, smartest, and most talented man to ever walk the earth, the board wrote. Based on Charles Yu's award-winning book, Interior Chinatown follows the story of Willis Wu. The Earth, the board wrote. his family's buried history, and what it feels like to be in the spotlight. Interior Chinatown is streaming November 19th, only on Disney+. He values his own apartment at more than $300 million, three times the most expensive sale at the time. Trump overvalued to convince banks to give him money, and at the lowest interest rates possible. Whether for lack of due diligence or because they didn't care, they gave him the money. So James is rushing to the rescue of big banks, they asked? What James appears to have proven, that which blue check Twitter has spent years salivating about, is tax fraud. She's referring her case to the IRS, but provides little proof of Trump undervaluing assets to pay less tax. Trump haters have been disappointed. After years of screaming

that Trump was a crook, all that James could even allege in a civil case is a real estate developer lied to bankers. Think his voters will care one whit, the board asked? It's pretty clear now why Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg didn't pursue an indictment. This announcement by James, who has a history of performative lawsuits as public advocate, is nakedly political. She ran for office promising to go after Trump and has been grandstanding during the entire investigation. Not that Trump is wholly untroubled. This adds to his menagerie of legal problems, will dog any political run in 2024, and could ban him from being the head of any business headquartered in the state. Yet with Trump's luck, he'll sell his gold-plated tower for profit and set up his business in Florida, where he already lives anyway. In the Daily Caller,

William Jacobson said it is a baseless lawsuit that represents full-on Trump derangement syndrome. The latest salvo was a major announcement earlier this week of civil, not criminal, charges against Trump, various Trump businesses, and three of the former president's children, based on alleged fraud dating back over a decade in connection with real estate valuations provided to lenders, Jacobson said. James seeks to shut down the businesses and bar Trump and his family from doing business in New York. Yet no lender is alleged to have lost money, and even the New York Times had to admit that James will have a hard time proving the case. Quote, property valuations are often subjective, and all his loans are either current or were paid off,

some before they were due. The lawsuit also comes as polls show James in an unexpectedly tight race, possibly even trailing her Republican opponent, Jacobson added. The announcement of civil charges against Trump on the eve of the election has the clear appearance of political motivation to boost James. Tish James campaigned on and conducted her office for the purpose of investigating a political opponent and those around him trying to find a crime. That is Soviet-level prosecutorial abuse where individuals are targeted not to prosecute a crime, but to sift through their lives in the hope of finding a crime. And lacking a prosecutable crime trying to bring them down and purge them from the economic world through a civil lawsuit,

James' conduct is a disgrace to the Office of Attorney General. In Fox News, Greg Jarrett said the lawsuit should be dismissed as politically punitive. The Attorney General alleges that Trump committed fraud by inflating or overstating the value of real estate holdings, businesses, and personal assets to secure loans from banks, Jarrett wrote, but such valuations are notoriously subjective. In appraising his holdings, seeking loans, and filing tax statements, Trump has always relied scrupulously on the judgment and advice of real estate experts, lawyers, and tax accountants, proving that he defrauded lenders by following the counsel of experienced professionals is a high burden that James will struggle to meet. Try as she may, the Attorney General could never find any evidence of criminal wrongdoing. Instead, she resorted to a civil action claiming financial

fraud. But in such cases, the plaintiff must necessarily prove that a victim was harmed in some economic or non-economic manner. Here, there are no known victims who were injured, he said. Indeed, just the opposite occurred. The banks who loaned Trump money profited handsomely from the transaction when they were repaid with substantial interest. They never sued because they were never harmed. Civil fraud is not a victimless offense. As I wrote in a Fox News opinion column more than a year ago, the behavior of Attorney General James is an affront to justice, he wrote. Never mind that she was not privy to any evidence or documents showing that he had violated a single state law. Bereft of facts did not deter her from accusing Trump of defrauding Americans. She publicly denounced him as an illegitimate president and constantly

repeated her campaign pledge to take him down. Alright, that is it for the left and the right, which brings us to my take. Of all the pending litigation regarding Trump, this one is honestly probably the least interesting. What I'm less clear on is how worried Trump should be. Legally, there are two ways to look at this. On the one hand, James appears to have a strong case. Few people doubt Trump exaggerated his real estate holdings or inflated his own wealth, something he has been documented doing since long before he was president. That James has the receipt seems perfectly likely. The accusations are very specific, absurd, and Trumpian throughout. She also doesn't have to prove any criminal intent to file a civil case.

Trump and his family's decision to plead the fifth so many times can actually be used against them in a civil jury trial as evidence they had reason to worry they would incriminate themselves. James says she found other crimes in the course of her investigation that she has referred to the IRS and the U.S. Attorney's Office in Manhattan, but those details are still forthcoming. To be able to punish Trump, she just has to convince a jury he did something that even many of his allies concede he may have done. On the other hand, it's not hard for all those allies to reframe this as a giant nothing burger.

First, in a worst-case scenario for his business, Trump could just pay a couple hundred million dollars, give up some of his in a worst case scenario for his business, Trump could just pay a couple hundred million dollars, give up some of his business interest in New York for five years, and be done with it. But he may fight and win, as his team just has to convince a few members of a jury that this is just a politically vindictive attorney general making a mountain out of a molehill by prosecuting a former president for something that happens all the time in big money real estate. Finally, James will have to find her victim. Right now, it appears that the victim is supposed to be the banks that made loads of money off Trump, and I'm skeptical about that

approach. Politically, it's perhaps even less important. I've openly praised and criticized Trump in this podcast for a range of things, but I think it's increasingly obvious he's guilty of mishandling classified documents and interfering in election results, two crimes that are far more serious with much harsher penalties politically and criminally than goosing or understating your real estate holdings to avoid taxes and get loans. On top of that, James's campaign for AG in New York regularly made me squirm. She was openly partisan, openly promising to prosecute someone before a case was even opened, and her hunt, which it was for crimes, has led to this, an accusation that Trump inflated his wealth to dupe investors who ultimately made lots of

money off him anyway. It's not exactly earth-shattering stuff, and it's not coming from a person anyone views as an impartial authority, which is ridiculous given that she is the Attorney General. Trump's biggest issue in this case was that he had to plead the fifth in the first place. If this were the only investigation he was facing, he probably could have been deposed and navigated it with help from attorneys. But since he risked incriminating himself in one of the half dozen other investigations he's involved in, he had no other choice. Of course, if he were to lose this case, owe $250 million in damages and lose the right to buy and sell real estate in New York, that would be a devastating personal blow on top of a financial blow to a man who cares so much about himself and his family business and legacy's image in real

estate. But it wouldn't be a death knell politically or financially despite some of the opinions to that effect. So where does this land us? It's totally believable that Trump inflated or deflated his net worth and real estate holdings to skirt taxes and acquire loans. Not just because Trump is Trump but because it is such a common crime. James's filing doesn't contain any smoking gun emails, texts, or documents so it's tough to clearly understand how strong her case is. Nevertheless, Trump was unwilling to testify because he is in such grave legal danger in so many other places, which is a big story in and of itself. It's impossible to predict how the trial will go, but it seems likely that this will

have very little impact politically, especially given James' reputation. that this will have very little impact politically, especially given James's reputation. The upshot, though, is Trump is in trouble, both legally and politically, from multiple angles. I'm not sure I'd put this lawsuit among the worst of his problems, but it also doesn't look like it's going to go away anytime soon. All right, that is it for my take, which brings us to your questions answered. This one is from Jean in Palm Harbor, Florida. Jean said, why are food prices higher?

I understand how big demand for a limited supply of other items has caused inflation, but demand for food is what it is. I'm not eating more. Are we growing less food? Gas prices are lower. So why aren't food prices getting lower? Gene, this is a great question. Some people, including me, had speculated that energy costs going down would eventually ease the price of food, an effect we still may see, but haven't yet. Bread is 16.2% more expensive than it was a year ago. Eggs are up 39.8% and food generally is up 11.4% from August

2021 to August 2022. The reasons for food price increases are in many ways tied to inflation broadly. The pandemic, the war in Ukraine, and in this case, fertilizer. The pandemic disrupted supply chains from production to retail and we are still dealing with the fallout. Labor shortages have driven up the cost of food production since it's more expensive to hire inspectors or people from production to retail, and we are still dealing with the fallout. Labor shortages have driven up the cost of food production since it's more expensive to hire inspectors or people working in the factories. Energy prices going up means transportation of food goes up, which means the cost of food goes up. And while it's true fuel prices are down, they're still much higher than they were a year ago. And then there's the war. Russia and Ukraine are the largest producers

of wheat in the world. When the war began, many analysts speculated if it would affect food supply and prices. They were right. The two sides are working out ways to keep wheat flowing, but Ukraine is still unable to fulfill its role completely. Meanwhile, some fertilizer prices have shot up 300% as a result of the war too. Both Ukraine and Russia are major suppliers. And then, on top of all that, there's the more tangential but still important factors. A drought in Brazil, a deadly avian flu, rising demand for groceries, floods and droughts in the U.S. that damage crops, all of this is straining a system that pre-pandemic global entities were warning was at risk. pre-pandemic, global entities were warning was at risk. Next up is our under the radar section.

This one is actually tied to our reader question today, but the United Nations food chief, David Beasley, has warned of widespread famine, citing a perfect storm on top of a perfect storm globally. He urged Gulf Nation donors and billionaires to give up a few days of profits to avoid a food fertilizer crisis and prevent widespread shortages next year. When Beasley took over his post five years ago, he said 80 million people did not know where their next meal was coming from. That number went up to 135 million in 2020, which he blamed on climate change's impact on food supply. Now, after the pandemic and war in Ukraine, the number has doubled to 276 million. Within that are 50 million people in 45 countries knocking on famine's door, Beasley said.

If we don't reach these people, you will have famine, starvation, destabilization of nations, unlike anything we saw in 2007 to 2008 and 2011, and you will have mass migration. The Associated Press has the story, and there is a link to it in today's episode description. All right, next up is our numbers section. The number of federal court judges President Biden has confirmed so far in his term is 83. The number of federal court judges President Biden has confirmed so far in his term is 83. The number of federal court judges President Trump has confirmed at this point in his term is 69. The number of judges Trump confirmed while in office is 231. The percentage point lead Republicans have over Democrats on

handling the economy is now 17%. The percentage point lead Republicans have over Democrats on handling inflation is 18%. The percentage point lead Democrats have over Democrats on handling inflation is 18%. The percentage point lead Democrats have over Republicans on handling abortion is 17%, according to a recent Washington Post poll. All right, and finally, last but not least, our have a nice day section. A 12-year-old girl has made over 200 blankets for homeless people, and she's making them out of recycled chip bags. Alyssa, who lives in Wales, says she has made 200 blankets using almost 10,000 thrown-away chip bags in the last year. Each one takes about an hour to make, and she uses an iron to fuse them together in a single sheet.

The blankets then go to organizations that support homeless people. The blankets then go to organizations that support homeless people. Alyssa got the idea from a woman named Penn Hudson, who started a company called the Crisp Packet Project to make blankets and survival bags out of recycled chip bags. BBC News has the story, and there's a link to it in today's episode description. Alright everybody, that is it for today's podcast. In case you missed it, we did publish an interesting interview with Michael McDonald, the election expert, yesterday.

So if you scroll back on the podcast, you can go listen to that little Sunday special. We'll be right back here at the same time tomorrow. Have a good one. Peace. Our podcast is written by me, Isaac Saul, and edited and produced by Trevor Eichhorn. Our script is edited by Ari Weitzman, Sean Brady, and Bailey Saul. Shout out to our interns, Audrey Moorhead and Watkins Kelly, and our social media manager, Magdalena Bokova, who designed our logo. Music for the podcast was

produced by Diet75. For more from Tangle, subscribe to our newsletter or check out our website at www.readtangle.com. We'll be right back.