Tangle - The gun ban in New Mexico.

Episode Date: September 14, 2023

New Mexico's gun ban. On Wednesday, a federal judge temporarily blocked a ban on carrying guns in Albuquerque, New Mexico, the state’s largest city. The order, put in place by Governor Michelle Lujan Grisham (D), has stirred up national attention and controversy across the state.You can read today's podcast here, today’s Under the Radar story here, and today’s “Have a nice day” story here. You can also check out our latest YouTube video here.Today’s clickables: Quick hits (2:00), Today’s story (3:53), Left’s take (7:26), Right’s take (11:42), Isaac’s take (15:13), Listener question (20:04), Under the Radar (23:20), Numbers (24:13), Have a nice day (24:46)You can subscribe to Tangle by clicking here or drop something in our tip jar by clicking here.Our podcast is written by Isaac Saul and edited by Jon Lall. Music for the podcast was produced by Diet 75. Our newsletter is edited by Bailey Saul, Sean Brady, Ari Weitzman, and produced in conjunction with Tangle’s social media manager Magdalena Bokowa, who also created our logo.--- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/tanglenews/message Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Based on Charles Yu's award-winning book, Interior Chinatown follows the story of Willis Wu, a background character trapped in a police procedural who dreams about a world beyond Chinatown. When he inadvertently becomes a witness to a crime, Willis begins to unravel a criminal web, his family's buried history, and what it feels like to be in the spotlight. Interior Chinatown is streaming November 19th, only on Disney+. The flu remains a serious disease. Last season, over 102,000 influenza cases have been reported across Canada, which is Chinatown is streaming November 19th, only on Disney+. yourself from the flu. It's the first cell-based flu vaccine authorized in Canada for ages six months and older, and it may be available for free in your province. Side effects and allergic reactions can occur, and 100% protection is not guaranteed. Learn more at flucellvax.ca.

From executive producer Isaac Saul, this is Tangle. Good morning, good afternoon, and good evening, and welcome to the Tangle podcast, the place we get views from across the political spectrum, some independent thinking, and a little bit of my take. I am your host, Isaac Saul, and on today's episode, we're going to be talking about the New Mexico gun ban. In case you missed it, the governor of New Mexico issued an order that effectively banned open carry and concealed carry in New Mexico for about 30 days in some certain cities in New Mexico, we should say. We're going to talk about exactly what happened, explain the prohibition,

and how people reacted to it. Before we jump in, though, a quick heads up about tomorrow. Every week, we publish Friday editions in our newsletter for our 11,000 plus Tangle members. As many of you know, the newsletter and the podcast here are both free Monday through Thursday, but paying members get additional content and features like this Friday newsletter. Tomorrow, I'm publishing a piece that I'm nervous about. Let's just say I'm trusting anybody who engages with it

to read the whole thing, and I hope approach it with an open mind. Pieces that make me nervous to write but feel true to my views are my favorite and least favorite kind of writing all at once, but I want to encourage you to keep an eye out for it. Be sure to write in with any feedback or thoughts you have, and of course, if you are not yet a Tangle member, a Tangle subscriber, you can go to readtangle.com slash membership to become a member. All right, with that little promo out of the way, we're going to jump in with some quick hits.

First up, Senator Mitt Romney, the Republican from Utah, announced he will not seek re-election next year. The 76-year-old Romney in part cited his age as a reason for deciding to step down. Number two, the contract between 150,000 auto workers and three U.S. car makers expires at midnight tonight. Without a deal, strikes across the auto industry are expected to begin this weekend. Number three, Hunter Biden's attorneys are suing former Trump White House Garrett Ziegler for publishing private photos and emails that came from a hard drive belonging to Hunter. Number four, a federal judge in Texas ruled that the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals, or DACA, program is unconstitutional but did not order an immediate end to the program.

And number five, the Census Bureau released its annual review of income in the United States and reported a decrease in real median household income, that's inflation adjusted, from $76,300 in 2021 to $74,600 in 2022. The governor of New Mexico is getting a lot of criticism over a new emergency order that suspends open and concealed carry laws in the city of Albuquerque. Now, this comes after a bunch of shootings there recently, including one that resulted in the death of a child. including one that resulted in the death of a child. The purpose is to try to create a cooling off period while we figure out how we can better address public safety and gun violence. Tonight, there's a new ruling just in from a federal judge. He says the New Mexico governor is violating constitutional rights

with a new ban on the right to publicly carry a firearm in New Mexico's largest city, Albuquerque. On Wednesday, a federal judge temporarily blocked a ban on carrying guns in Albuquerque, New Mexico, the state's largest city. The order put in place by Governor Michelle Lujan Grisham, has stirred up national attention and controversy across the state. New Mexico, which is an open-carry state, has faced a spate of gun violence this year, headlined by 76 homicides in Albuquerque. In 2021, it was among the top three states with the highest gun mortality rates, and over the last few weeks, several children were killed by gun violence. Lujan Grisham said gun violence is now the leading

cause of death for children and teens in her state. In response, Lujan Grisham tasked state police with enforcing a 30-day ban on the right to carry open or concealed firearms in public with fines of up to $5,000 for violations. The ban was imposed as an emergency public health order, which Lujan Grisham framed as a cooling off period to slow down the recent spike in gun crime. It applied to all cities or counties averaging 1,000 or more violent crimes per 100,000 residents per year since 2021, and they were tracking FBI data. It also applied to any cities or counties with more than 90 firearm-related emergency department visits per 100,000 residents since last summer. In effect, the order banned open carry in the Albuquerque area. The announcement immediately sparked a string of lawsuits, along with pushback from both Republicans and Democrats in her own

state, saying it violates precedent from the Supreme Court's ruling in New York State Rifle and Pistol Association v. Bruin. Bernalillo County Sheriff John Allen, a Democrat, openly defied Lujan Grisham, saying he wouldn't enforce an unconstitutional law. This order will not do anything to curb gun violence other than push law-abiding citizens from their constitutional right to self-defense, Allen said at a news conference. It's unconstitutional, so there's no way we could enforce that order. Lujan Grisham responded by calling on Allen and the police to do more to help her stop gun violence. We've passed common sense gun legislation, including red flag laws, domestic violence protections, a ban on straw purchases, and safe

storage laws, dedicated hundreds of millions of dollars to funds specifically to help law enforcement hire and retain officers, increased penalties for violent offenders, and provided massive support to intervention programs, she said. We've given you the tools, Sheriff Allen. Now stop being squeamish about using them. I will not back down from doing what's right, and I will always put the safety of the people of New Mexico first. Along with the gun order, Lujan Grisham also promised to increase state police presence in Bernalillo County, arrest anyone with outstanding warrants, and expand capacity to deal with addiction and homelessness. The ruling to strike down the order came from U.S. District Judge David Urias, a Biden appointee, who said he understood Lujan Grisham's desire to combat gun violence, but was tasked with deciding the simple question of whether the order

was constitutional. Urias' temporary restraining order blocks it until another hearing is scheduled for October. However, Urias did leave in place other parts of the order, including directives for monthly inspections of firearms dealers, wastewater testing for illicit substances, and reports on gunshot victims at New Mexico hospitals. Republicans, meanwhile, have called for impeachment proceedings against the governor. Today, we're going to take a look at some reactions to the order from the left and the right, and then my take. First up, let's start with a little bit of agreement here. Many writers on the left and the right agree that this order isn't constitutional and represents a misstep by the governor. While

the left is sympathetic to her position and supports drastic action on gun violence, the right is much more critical of the move and calls for punishment for the governor. So let's start with what the left is saying. The left worries that the order is fatally flawed in its execution, even though it seeks to address a real crisis in gun violence. Some question the legality of the move in light of recent Supreme Court rulings. Others say Lujan Grisham is ignoring more effective means at her disposal to reduce gun violence. In the Santa Fe, New Mexican, Milan Simonik said Lujan Grisham is right to focus on curbing gun violence, but has picked the fight she cannot win with this order. Republicans eager to snipe at the government have an easy avenue,

Simonik said. They say her order is unconstitutional and odds are good they can prove their contention in a courtroom. With her overreach, Lujan Grisham has also alienated people who otherwise support her efforts to beef up policing and drug treatment programs. Because the governor acknowledges thugs, thieves, and drug dealers will continue carrying guns, her order theoretically applies only to people who obey laws, Simonik said. Ultimately, the governor's prohibition on guns brought her a wave of national publicity, but it diverts attention from workable ways of curbing crime and violence. Lujan Grisham committed this unforced error while sitting in an advantageous position, as the state is flush with billions in new revenue that could be put towards smarter ways to address gun violence. Lujan Grisham has the charisma and passion to rally the public behind those efforts, but by persisting with a blanket order banning

firearms, she has created a sideshow. In the Washington Post, Erin Blake said the order is of dubious constitutionality and hard to reconcile with recent Supreme Court rulings. The move builds up a growing tendency in American politics for governors to test the limits of their authority and effectively dare the courts to stop them, Blake said. Increasingly, Democrats have warmed to this approach, even in some cases when they had indicated they didn't have those authorities. Obama, late in his presidency, sought to defer deportations of undocumented immigrants, despite having said he couldn't do such things because he was not a king or the emperor.

Biden, last year, sought to cancel student loan debt despite fellow Democrats like then-House Speaker Nancy Pelosi having said that he couldn't do that. Now, Lujan Grisham is making a similar effort. Grisham has maintained more firmly that she has the authority on the gun restriction, but she has also cast the situation as just too serious not to try something. Her order notably comes after the Democratic-controlled New Mexico State Legislature struggled this year to pass new gun laws post-Bruin. Now, politicians and experts on the left are calling into question the legality of the move, noting that the Supreme Court decision in Bruin undercuts Grisham's proposed justification. That's because it didn't allow courts to take into account the kind of compelling

government interest that Grisham cited, reducing gun violence, for example, and instead focused on historical precedents. In MSNBC, Dennis Aftergood acknowledged the government's efforts to address the desperate problem of gun violence, but said her solution will backfire. Anyone who values public safety can appreciate Lujan Grisham's desire to protect people from gun violence. Public order and safety are, after all, primary purposes of the law. But in issuing the order, Lujan Grishin may have tripped over the rule of law herself. One cannot stand up for the legal order while at risk of violating its first principle. An executive official who uses a laudable end to justify means of questionable constitutionality

sets a precedent that could easily come back to haunt us all, he wrote. We saw this play out on January 6th when President Trump reportedly considered declaring an emergency and invoking the Insurrection Act to use the militia or the armed forces to suppress rebellions. The governor has said that she felt compelled to act, but there is a better way to resolve legal uncertainty that doesn't involve an executive's declaring a suspension of rights. Go to court and seek an emergency judicial declaration that the exigent public need justifies it. Instead, Lujan Grisham simply aimed and fired. All right, that is it for what the left is saying, which brings us to what the right is saying. The right is opposed to the order, calling it a political ploy that's unconstitutional and destined

to fail. Some wonder if this move is the beginning of a broader strategy by Democratic leaders to ignore Supreme Court rulings that they dislike. Others say it's an example of how the emergency powers that many states invoked during the pandemic can be abused. The Albuquerque Journal editorial board said Lujan Grisham shouldn't break the law to fight crime. It's not often the ACLU of New Mexico and the Republican Party of New Mexico agree on something, and it's also not often that law enforcement leaders openly defy a governor. But Lujan Grisham has accomplished both, abusing the emergency public health powers granted to the governor's administration by state lawmakers in the wake of 9-11, and it's not going over so well, even among members of her own political party.

Already, law enforcement leaders like the Bernalillo County Sheriff have vowed not to enforce it, calling it unconstitutional. The unilateral decree from the governor's administration has some good elements, like sending additional New Mexico state police officers to fight crime, allowing police to book juveniles into jail without social services permission, and monthly inspections of licensed gun dealers. But the gun ban overshadows everything else in the emergency public health order, the board said. Lujan Grisham has dug herself into a legal and political hole from which she cannot emerge successfully. In the Washington Post, Henry Olson said Lujan Grisham seems to think it's okay to

ignore the Supreme Court. The order flies in the face of the Supreme Court's recent ruling in New York State Rifle and Pistol Association v. Bruin, which held that the Second Amendment guarantees an individual's right to carry a weapon in public for self-defense. Lujan Grisham's rationale about gun violence constituting a public health emergency is twisted on its face because it says increased threats of bodily harm eliminates the means that residents would use to protect their safety. Talk about Orwellian logic. Based on Charles Yu's award-winning book, Interior Chinatown follows the story of Willis

Wu, a background character trapped in a police procedural who dreams about a world beyond Chinatown. When he inadvertently becomes a witness to a crime, Willis begins to unravel a criminal web, his family's buried history, and what it feels like to be in the spotlight. Interior Chinatown is streaming November 19th, only on Disney+. The flu remains a serious disease. Last season, over 102,000 influenza cases have been reported across Canada, which is nearly double the historic average of 52,000 cases. What can you do this flu season? Talk to your pharmacist or doctor about getting a flu shot. Consider FluCellVax Quad and help protect yourself from the flu.

It's the first cell-based flu vaccine authorized in Canada for ages 6 months and older, and it may be available for free in your province. Side effects and allergic reactions can occur, and 100% protection is not guaranteed. Learn more at flucellvax.ca. Still, the governor is no dummy. She has held appointed or elected office for nearly 20 years. She couldn't possibly be so naive to think her order would be uncontroversial, even among Democrats. So what was the real intention behind her order? It could be that,

like many ambitious politicians, she simply wants attention. Alternatively, she could be playing an even longer game and attempting a much more serious challenge to the Supreme Court's authority to circumvent rulings Democrats resent. In reason, Jacob Solem called the order a blatantly unconstitutional edict that demonstrates the hazards of emergency powers. Grisham's stunt was widely condemned as blatantly unconstitutional, but it also underlined the perils posed by the sweeping emergency powers that legislators in many states have granted governors, a problem that was abundantly clear during the COVID-19 pandemic, Solem said. Unlike gun violence, COVID-19 was a literal epidemic, but Grisham thinks that both threats empower her to act like a dictator for however long she deems necessary. Her strategy is unlikely to succeed,

though, as two gun rights groups immediately challenged Grisham's order in federal court, noting that it defies last year's Supreme Court decision upholding the Second Amendment right to possess guns in public for self-defense. The governor also admitted that her order was unlikely to survive legal challenges, Solemn said, but if it encourages legislators to reconsider the wisdom of letting governors rule by decree based on open-ended emergencies that they themselves declare, it will have served a useful purpose. All right, that is it for the left and the right are saying, which brings us to my take. This one isn't too difficult.

Lujan Grisham screwed up badly. The fallacy of what she tried to do was neatly wrapped up in an exchange she had with a reporter, who asked her if she believed a 30-day prohibition would be obeyed by criminals. No, Lujan Grisham said, before adding that she hoped it would still send a resounding message to others in the community to report gun crimes. To say that back to you, she doesn't expect this to have an impact on criminals committing gun violence, but she hopes it sends a message to law-abiding citizens, which she hopes creates fewer risks for everyone. It is as nonsensical a plan as it is unconstitutional. The best argument for Luan Grisham is that there is some limited data showing states with more permissive concealed carry laws have higher rates of gun violence, but a slight correlation is not exactly cause for a major

constitutional overstep. And, of course, there is no data for what happens when a ban like this is instituted, because it is almost no precedent. Even if you were to see that a temporary ban will have an effect, the timing is still bizarre. Albuquerque is on track to have lower homicide and robbery numbers this year than in 2021 or 2022. If she were responding to a truly unprecedented crime wave, it might make such a drastic action more palatable, but she isn't. Conversely, the arguments against Lujan Grisham's order are pretty much overwhelming. For starters, concealed carry permit holders are disproportionately not responsible for violent crime anywhere, including New Mexico. Permit holders in New Mexico only have their

permits revoked 0.002% of the time for any reason. So, telling a bunch of law-abiding gun owners who pass background checks and various other benchmarks to be able to conceal or open carry that they can't carry guns is not going to do much to slow down gun violence. In fact, it's only going to affirm the beliefs of many gun owners that the government is coming after their rights, despite there being very little evidence of that until Lujan Grisham's declaration. In other words, she's breaking the law, she's proposing a solution that won't work, she's feeding conspiratorial fears about government overreach, and she's punishing a group of people who are statistically some of the least likely to commit gun violence. When I've written about this issue before in the past, I've made a few observations I keep

coming back to. First, no national trend is monocausal. As the conservative columnist Noah Blum said after the Robb Elementary School shooting, there are just parts of our society that are unfathomably broken and they occasionally intersect in unspeakably awful and evil ways. In New Mexico, for instance, the gun violence deaths that push Lujan Grisham over the top included a five-year-old who was killed in a drive-by shooting and a 13-year-old girl who was killed by a 14-year-old boy that got possession of his dad's handgun. These outcomes were not solely caused by guns, but by the kinds of gang violence or irresponsible parenting that is often behind stories like them. Second, we just can't accept the status quo. Or, as The Onion put it in one

of its best headlines ever, there's no way to prevent this, says the only nation where this regularly happens. Roughly 500 people die each year from gun deaths in New Mexico, which has a population of 2.1 million. There are literally dozens and dozens of countries with larger populations and fewer gun deaths than that per year, and they vary widely in socioeconomic status. A small sample includes Ireland, 29 deaths, 5 million people. New Zealand, 48 deaths, 5.1 million. Cuba, 78 deaths, 11.3 million. Belarus, 108 deaths, 9.3 million. Finland, 161 deaths, 5.5 million. Nicaragua, 226 deaths of 6.9 million. And Bolivia, 452 deaths of 12 million people, and so on. 500 people dying from guns in the 36th most populated state in the United States should not be considered

normal. Lujan Grisham has imposed some other regulations to address gun crime, but there are a few easy-to-implement resolutions she has so far not touched on that Jennifer Maskey and Chip Brownlee addressed in the trace, including waiting periods for firearm purchases, compelling every New Mexico county to participate in a universal crime gun tracing program, less than a quarter of the counties participate right now, which is well below the national average, and putting some money behind actual violence prevention programs. These kinds of reforms would address the sort of gun violence New Mexico is experiencing head on. Ultimately, I can appreciate Lujan Grisham's desire to do something, anything,

to feel like she's moving the needle. But this is lazy legislating. It's bad politics, and it reeks of someone just trying to get national attention. It's a distraction, and it drives the people on opposite sides of this issue farther away from each other rather than putting energy toward a consensus solution. All right, that is it for my take, which brings us to your questions answered. This one is from Tara in Orland, California. Tara said a Republican friend said they wouldn't vote for Trump, but that he did a lot of good for the country when he was president. I do not know what he did that was good for the country. Could you tell me? Sure. So assessing Trump's presidency is inherently difficult because the last year or two of his time in office was upended by a global pandemic and the riots at the Capitol, which make it easy to forget all the things that happened before then.

I reviewed Trump's presidency in January after he left office based on the promises he made to Americans and whether he upheld them. The good things, quote unquote, he did for the country are obviously subjective and based on whether you support his policy positions or not. To that end, I think I should start with the controversial good things he did, i.e. the things he ran on but maybe half the country wouldn't support. That includes things like cutting taxes and regulations, reducing legal and illegal immigration, the former more than the latter, renegotiating our trade deals, and appointing conservative judges. The U.S. also became the world leader in crude oil production when he was in office,

and he put a lot more funding into school choice. If you're a Republican voter, Trump did the kinds of things many conservative politicians promise but rarely actually do. Aside from the conservative wins, I think he made many other big accomplishments as president that most Americans generally support. He helped cut red tape to fast-track COVID-19 vaccines, getting them to the public faster than anyone thought was possible. Pre-COVID, he oversaw a period of huge job and wage growth while also pushing many American companies to bring their jobs back to the U.S. While overseeing a humming economy, the poverty rate hit a 17-year low. He passed the First Step Act, a bipartisan bill that nudged criminal justice reform toward rehabilitation. He oversaw another stretch where violent crime rates continued to fall while he

was in office. This was true of the last few presidents, too. He did not start any new wars. He pushed allies to better fund and support the conflicts and military entanglements we are already in. He brought troops home from places like Syria, though, to be fair, the number of troops overseas was about the same when he left office as when he entered since a lot of what happened was kind of a reshuffling. He also did a lot of stuff you probably never heard about. He signed laws to make cruelty to animals a federal felony. He signed several laws aimed at making drug pricing and healthcare pricing more transparent. And he signed a number of executive orders to make it easier to import cheap drugs from Canada.

He ushered in rules that gave law enforcement more tools to fight sex trafficking. And he created a hotline for the VA that was staffed by veterans and family members of veterans. His administration seriously pared back the reach of ISIS and negotiated the release of dozens of American hostages abroad. He also greenlit lots of financial aid to farmers. There was a lot more. I linked to a list of some of his accomplishments that got fact-checked by the New York Times, which is a very interesting piece in today's episode description, but there is no doubt that Trump got a lot done while in office. Some was via executive action that has already been undone. Other trends changed post-COVID, but his list of accomplishments from the conservative view is long, and there is plenty in there that I suspect is widely supported. All right, next up is our under-the-radar section.

Columbia University ignored women, undermined prosecutors, and allowed one of its OBGYNs to abuse hundreds of patients over the course of several decades. The doctor, Robert Haddon, was sentenced to 20 years in federal prison in July. But the victims who have been trying to raise the flag about him for years are left wondering how Columbia has still admitted no fault and has instituted no reforms. Columbia has paid $236 million to resolve settlements with 226 of Haddon's victims. But at least twice, including after Haddon was arrested for assault, Haddon's bosses acknowledged and writing concerns about him and then continued to let him practice. New York Magazine and ProPublica just released a bombshell investigative report on what happened

and what the victims want now. Next up is our numbers section. New Mexico's ranking in gun deaths per capita is now sixth. The reduction in homicides in Albuquerque the first five months of 2023 compared to the same time period last year was 22%. The increase in weapons violations over the same time period in 2023 was 30%. From 2009 to 2018, the percentage of gun deaths in New Mexico that were suicides is 67%. During that same time period, the percentage of gun deaths in New Mexico that were homicides is 27%. All right, and last but not least, our have a nice day section. Venkantama and Vilak Shami are farmers in Telangana, considered one of the poorest states

in India. Farmers here grow a variety of crops, but have always been dependent on loans to buy seeds and fertilizers, and occasionally even for everyday subsistence during times of drought or crop failure. For a long time, their only source for such loans were local money lenders who charge anywhere from 36 to 60%. So they decided to become directors at a company they set up with other marginalized farmers in 2012 to eliminate middlemen from the sales process and allow small farmers to buy directly from each other and sell at market rates. These farmers were able to make

it out of the exploitative system with financial support from RangD, a peer-to-peer lending platform that has dispersed more than 16,000 low-interest loans, totaling nearly $7 million since September 2019. Loans are funded by over 8,000 social investors who lend to farmers, artists, vendors, entrepreneurs, businessmen, and women. Reasons to be cheerful has the story and there's a link to it in today's episode description. All right, before we get out of here, a quick heads up that we have a new video up on our YouTube channel. This one is asking the question, is college still worth it? I break down some of my own personal experience as well as what the numbers tell us you can check it out by looking up tangle news

on youtube and be sure to subscribe and like the channel and do all that other good stuff we'll be in your inbox tomorrow afternoon if you're a tangle member otherwise we'll see you Have a great weekend. Peace. Our podcast is written by me, Isaac Saul, and edited by John Law. Our script is edited by Ari Weitzman, Bailey Saul, and Sean Brady. The logo for our podcast was designed by Magdalena Bukova, who's also our social media manager. Music for the podcast was produced by Diet75. For more on Tangle, please go to readtangle.com and check out our website. Based on Charles Yu's award-winning book, We'll be right back. criminal web, his family's buried history, and what it feels like to be in the spotlight. Interior Chinatown is streaming November 19th, only on Disney+. The flu remains a serious disease. Last season, over 102,000 influenza cases have been reported

across Canada, which is nearly double the historic average of 52,000 cases. What can you do this flu season? Talk to your pharmacist or doctor about getting a flu shot. Consider FluCellVax Quad and help protect yourself from the flu. It's the first cell-based flu vaccine authorized in Canada for ages 6 months and older, and it may be available for free in your province. Side effects and allergic reactions can occur, and 100% protection is not guaranteed. Learn more at FluCellVax.ca.