Tangle - The House Freedom Caucus revolt.

Starting point is 00:00:00 Based on Charles Yu's award-winning book, Interior Chinatown follows the story of Willis Wu, a background character trapped in a police procedural who dreams about a world beyond Chinatown. When he inadvertently becomes a witness to a crime, Willis begins to unravel a criminal web, his family's buried history, and what it feels like to be in the spotlight.

Starting point is 00:00:19 Interior Chinatown is streaming November 19th, only on Disney+. Chinatown is streaming November 19th, only on Disney+. From executive producer Isaac Saul, this is Tangle. Good morning, good afternoon, and good evening, and welcome to the Tangle Podcast, a place we get views from across the political spectrum, some independent thinking, and a little bit of my take. I'm your host, Isaac Saul, and on today's episode, we are going to be talking about some infighting in the Republican Party amongst House Speaker Kevin McCarthy and some of his fellow Republicans in the House Freedom Caucus, who last week basically ground Congress to a halt, which was pretty

Starting point is 00:01:14 interesting. We're going to talk about what happened, how it ended, what it means, some of the implications, lots of chatter on both the left and the right about this story. Before we jump in, though, we unfortunately have a correction to issue today. A couple of weeks ago in our June 7th edition, I accidentally made a very dumb error. We were writing about the Khakova Dam in Ukraine. We called it one of the largest dams in Europe, which is true. And then we said that its reservoir holds about 5 million gallons of water. In fact, it's about 5 trillion gallons of water. 5 million would be about the size of a small pond. This error just came to our attention. We apologize for it. This is our 85th correction in Tangle's 203-week history and our first since May 17th, we track corrections and place them at the top

Starting point is 00:02:06 of the podcast in an effort to maximize transparency with our listeners. All right, with that out of the way, we'll jump in with some quick hits. First up, former President Donald Trump pleaded not guilty to 37 charges related to his alleged mishandling of classified documents. His lawyers also requested a jury trial during his arraignment. Number two, at least 11 people were killed in eastern Ukraine after a Russian missile strike. Number three, 22 U.S. service members were injured in northeastern Syria after a helicopter crash that is now being investigated. Number four, White House Press Secretary Karine Jean-Pierre violated the Hatch Act, according to a watchdog. The Hatch Act prohibits civil service employees from engaging in political activity,

Starting point is 00:02:57 and Jean-Pierre allegedly violated it by making frequent references to MAGA Republicans. Number five, Illinois became the first state to outlaw book bans in libraries as states across the country challenge and remove literature from public schools and libraries. Speaker Kevin McCarthy struck a deal to quell internal rebellion in the House Republican Conference this week, the result of a handful of hardline members' dissatisfaction with the debt ceiling compromise. In Washington this morning, House Speaker Kevin McCarthy is facing growing calls for his removal from members of his own party. They're upset over the deal he struck with President Biden on the debt ceiling. Despite the recent threats to his position, McCarthy has embraced

Starting point is 00:03:49 the role and is pushing ahead with his agenda, which is being dubbed by some as a YOLO approach, as in, you only live once. These members have a few things in common. Some are members of the House Freedom Caucus, but one thread that runs through them, Amna, when you talk about how they voted for Kevin McCarthy on those first speaker votes, most of them voted no. On Monday, Speaker Kevin McCarthy struck a deal with a group of conservative Republicans that will allow legislation to begin moving on the House floor again after the chamber was ground to a halt for a week. Last week, after McCarthy ushered in a

Starting point is 00:04:25 bipartisan deal on the debt ceiling that did not include any deep spending cuts the House Freedom Caucus had demanded, members of the group expressed their displeasure by stopping progress on several Republican bills. Since Republicans hold a slim 222 to 213 majority in the House, the House Freedom Caucus has a lot of power in Congress, which it flexed by voting with Democrats on a procedural vote that halted two Republican bills to limit regulations on gas stoves. Since it has little chance of passing the Democrat-controlled Senate, the bill was primarily seen as messaging from House Republicans to the Republican base. Members of a party in the majority halting a procedural vote by their own

Starting point is 00:05:05 party is extremely rare in modern politics. This was the first time in almost 21 years that such a measure was defeated on the House floor. The move effectively froze legislative action in Congress for all of last week until the two sides announced a deal on Monday. In the agreement, members of the House Freedom Caucus said they want to see progress on a power-sharing arrangement with McCarthy. Otherwise, they would continue to block votes on the House floor. The group then successfully combined five bills, including the two gas stove bills, a bill to repeal a federal ban on pistol braces, and legislation to limit the power of federal agencies into one.

Starting point is 00:05:40 That bill narrowly passed the House on Tuesday. As part of their request, the House Freedom Caucus lawmakers say they are going to push for additional spending cuts in the 12 appropriation bills that Congress must enact by October 1st to keep federal agencies open, setting up the prospect of a standoff and a potential government shutdown. Republican lawmakers hope to use debate on those appropriations bills to eliminate an estimated 1,100 programs that have not been authorized by Congress and represent about $100 billion in spending. House Appropriations Committee Chairwoman Kay Granger, the Republican from Texas, said she will advance bills that cut 2024 spending to 2022 levels by reducing domestic spending while

Starting point is 00:06:21 preserving funding for national defense, the border, and veterans. The Fiscal Responsibility Act set a top-line spending cap, a ceiling, not a floor, for the fiscal 2024 bills, she said. That is why I will use this opportunity to mark up appropriations bills that limit new spending to the fiscal year 2022 top level. Democrats objected to the news of the deal, saying Republicans were reneging on a deal they struck with President Joe Biden just last week. They are disregarding the letter and the spirit of the agreement between the president and the Speaker of the House, Representative Rosa DeLauro, the Democrat from Connecticut, said. Much of the tension stems back to McCarthy's election as House Speaker. As part of a deal to win the gavel, McCarthy had agreed to several

Starting point is 00:07:04 measures, including restoring a rule that allows any single member to trigger a recall vote of his speakership. That power gives individual members more leverage in negotiations with McCarthy. Other details of the deal he made with House Republicans are still unknown. Today, we're going to take a look at some reactions to this tension from the left and the right, and then my take. First up, let's start with what the right is saying. Like Congress, the right is divided on the deal, with some criticizing the House Freedom Caucus members and others wondering who controls the House. Some argue conservative Republicans are effectively throwing a temper tantrum and have less power than they think. Others say they can force McCarthy into a more conservative agenda

Starting point is 00:07:58 and should continue to play offense aggressively. The New York Post editorial board criticized the House Freedom Caucus, saying they were tossing more toys from their cribs. And the stunt supposedly aimed at demonstrating their anger that Speaker Kevin McCarthy broke his word to them in cutting the debt limit deal. A dozen House Republicans just killed, for now, four Republican bills, the board said. Yep, it's cutting off your nose to spite your face. None of these Republicans actually oppose these bills. It's just a protest against the quote-unquote imperial speakerships as ringleader representative Matt Gaetz. But all they've really shown is that they can join with

Starting point is 00:08:35 Democrats to block perfectly fine Republican measures. It also gives the usual media suspects grist for more rounds of Republican infighting incompetent stories, which counts as a win for the Gateses and Boeberts, obsessed as they are with raising their own profiles, results be damned. Nor will Matt Gates or Lauren Boebert lose a wink of sleep if it means GOP Senate candidates next year can't argue vote for me to save your gas stove. They claim to be conservatives, but performance artist seems more accurate. stove. They claim to be conservatives, but performance artist seems more accurate. In National Review, Philip A. Wallach asked who controls the House.

Starting point is 00:09:13 For the first time in 21 years, a rule was voted down on the floor of the House. Rather than vote with our own majority party, as has been nearly automatic on rule votes in recent years, 11 Republican members voted with Democrats to sink the rule, Wallach said. Majority leaders have long assumed there will be no surprises on these votes because they structure the agenda for what legislation can be formally considered and concerns can be brought up before a vote. But defecting Republicans sunk the rule to register their displeasure with the debt limit deal. Still, the dissenters' leverage here should not be overstated. A debt ceiling deal was passed because moderate Republicans worked with Democrats.

Starting point is 00:09:47 If McCarthy's detractors wanted to become a more potent force for reshaping the House, they would need to have some positive agenda that enticed Democrats, Wallach said. Indeed, if McCarthy's critics aren't careful, they might push him permanently into the bipartisan dealmaking mode that has so enraged them already. Right now, it is the moderates in the chamber, rather than the members on either extreme, who are best positioned to take advantage of a regime where bipartisan coalitions can advance legislation without support from leadership. In the Daily Caller, David Bossie threw support behind the dissenters. Republicans had the upper

Starting point is 00:10:21 hand on Biden, and it was assumed Speaker McCarthy was fighting hard for the original House bill on the debt ceiling that passed in April. Instead, something far different came out of the talks, a typical Washington bait-and-switch, full of gross exaggeration and swampy political spin. Though Biden and McCarthy both claimed victory on the deal, that a whopping 77% of Democrats voted for it should tell you all you need to know. Try as he might to deny it, McCarthy got his clock cleaned over the debt deal. that a whopping 77% of Democrats voted for it should tell you all you need to know. Try as he might to deny it, McCarthy got his clock cleaned over the debt deal. As the months go by in the lead up to the 2024 presidential election, it will become evident that nothing in the Biden-McCarthy bill did anything to alter our country-wrecking financial trajectory. The House Freedom Caucus understands fully the damage Biden's agenda could do, which is why 11 courageous conservatives sent the message the deals cut in January must be honored.

Starting point is 00:11:10 The House should pursue spending cuts, force FBI Director Christopher Wray to testify, and introduce articles of impeachment for Homeland Security Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas. Republicans need to get on offense and stay there. All right, that is it for what the right is saying, which brings us to what the left is saying. The left is critical of Republicans, saying that killing their own rules shows their party is in disarray. Some argue that McCarthy is trying to satisfy extremists, which puts him in a baday. Some argue that McCarthy is trying to satisfy extremists, which puts him in a bad position. Others suggest the House Freedom Caucus knows they can't oust McCarthy, but can certainly embarrass him. In the American Prospect, David Dyan said that

Starting point is 00:11:56 Republicans are in disarray. It is a testament to the strangeness of the modern Republican Party that the indictment of a former president for improper retention of national security documents has united them and perfunctory House votes on a series of deregulatory bills has divided them, Dianne said. Rule votes are usually party-line affairs and haven't failed since 2002 until the House Freedom Caucus revolted last week. Ironically, the only bills that the House Freedom Caucus held in limbo were ones they've been advocating for, like the REINS Act or two bills to preserve Americans' God-given right to a gas stove, which is not actually under threat. Looking ahead, the House Freedom Caucus actions should be seen as an attempt to effectively

Starting point is 00:12:37 revise the deal at the appropriations stage, Dianne said. McCarthy is being implicitly threatened with his speakership if he doesn't hold to lower spending. Meanwhile, McConnell is getting pressured to plus up the military budget. All of that points to stopgap funding to prevent an October 1st government shutdown, which would render all the work on the debt ceiling spending caps rather meaningless. The disarray from Republicans, not the administration's negotiating, could lead to the debt limit crisis having a much more favorable outcome than expected. In the Washington Post, Dana Miliband called the proceedings a spectacular flame-out. Based on Charles Yu's award-winning book,

Starting point is 00:13:16 Interior Chinatown follows the story of Willis Wu, a background character trapped in a police procedural who dreams about a world beyond Chinatown. When he inadvertently becomes a witness to a crime, Willis begins to unravel a criminal web, his family's buried history, and what it feels like to be in the spotlight. Interior Chinatown is streaming November 19th, only on Disney+. Coming off the debt ceiling deal, McCarthy was the king of the world, but has since done the legislative equivalent of slipping on a banana peel, Milibank said. McCarthy has only himself to blame for the House shutdown, and the debt deal, which earned the votes of two and three Republicans and four and five Democrats, gave him a template for success. But instead of using it, he launched a doomed effort to win back the far right with some gaslighting.

Starting point is 00:14:05 a doomed effort to win back the far right with some gaslighting. McCarthy tried the classic culture war script, specifically that the Biden administration is coming to take away your gas stove and then force votes on legislation to counter the non-existent threat. Instead, the right-wing holdout struck without warning and voted with Democrats against the rules for debate, the first such rebuke to leadership since 2002, Milibank said. Trying to satisfy the extremists who, as McCarthy noted, haven't articulated coherent demands is pointless. As long as McCarthy attempts to appease them, any hope of actual legislative achievement will be on the back burner, and any hope for a successful speakership will go up in smoke. In MSNBC, Steve Bannon said that the Freedom Caucus can't oust McCarthy, but it can embarrass him. After House Speaker Kevin McCarthy ignored the Freedom Caucus's wishes and struck a bipartisan budget deal with President Joe Biden, the far-right lawmakers weighed their options, Bannon said.

Starting point is 00:14:56 Some in the caucus considered trying to take his gavel away, an idea which collapsed rather quickly. Then, on Tuesday, the contingents settled on Plan B, joining all Democrats to block a pair of GOP bills to protect gas stoves to express their anger over the debt deal. What party leaders did not realize was that the House Freedom Caucus, still enraged that McCarthy didn't push the United States closer to an economic catastrophe, is willing to spite GOP leaders by derailing their own party's legislative agenda, Bannon said. The fact that McCarthy wanted to score a cheap political victory yesterday was a problem. The fact that he failed made the problem worse. But worse still is the fact that the House speaker was embarrassed. McCarthy apparently had no idea his own members were poised to block the party's legislation. All right, that is it for what the left and the right are saying, which brings us

Starting point is 00:15:53 to my take. So I actually think I have a kind of unique position here. Honestly, I think it's great. I know that most of the news coverage has been framed as this is chaos or dysfunction, but I view it really differently. For years, leadership in both parties has had concentrated power and force their agenda on representatives who are supposed to represent their constituents. Now, House Republicans are bucking that trend and pulling some power away from the top. There are limits, of course. I mean, I was and remain very critical of the debt ceiling standoff. I don't think that is how you should legislate, and I certainly don't think it's a healthy way to run a country. As time has gone on, in fact, House Republicans' actions made me more convinced

Starting point is 00:16:39 that eliminating the debt ceiling is the best course of action for fiscal conservatives and for liberals alike. But wielding power and forcing negotiations on legislation and appropriations is the job of Congress, and members of the House Freedom Caucus are well within their right to exercise that power. To be clear, it's not necessary to support the House Freedom Caucus agenda to support what is happening right now. In fact, this may be an especially good thing if you don't support their hardline views. As Philip Wallach noted under what the right is saying, there's a read of this new dynamic that moderates on both sides are becoming more powerful because

Starting point is 00:17:15 of the House Freedom Caucus's punitive actions, which could result in more bipartisan legislation, which would represent a short-sighted tactical blunder by members of the House Freedom Caucus. What they've definitely done is constrain McCarthy and Republican leadership. They have made it so a few people can't simply decide something is going to become a law, and then that thing becomes a law, or that a deal is going to be struck, and now everyone has to vote for that deal. For decades, we've seen leadership on both sides run Congress in this way. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi's leadership, which is largely being framed as powerful and historic, was indeed powerful and historic for Nancy Pelosi. The other 200-plus representatives

Starting point is 00:17:56 she oversaw had little power to shape their own histories. I actually don't think that is a good way for Congress to work. The result was that the other members of Congress, the ones voted in to represent their districts, had few levers aside from showing their worth through fundraising or convincing a member of leadership to advance legislation they wanted. So let's talk about the practical implications. The House Speaker now has to consider the far-right members of his party and work with Democrats and represent the moderate Republicans who put him there. Rule changes pushed by the House Freedom Caucus could lead to more

Starting point is 00:18:29 debate on the House floor and more open consideration of amendments. Fewer bills will be brought up for procedural votes where the outcome is preordained. New coalitions among different blocks of Congress will have to form to get legislation passed. Why, again, is this a bad thing? Why are we so allergic to this possibility? I understand not liking Speaker McCarthy's leadership style. I understand worrying about the furthest right wing of Congress having outsized power, and I certainly understand why people are framing this as dysfunctional. But Congress should be a little messy. It should be interesting, and it should be less predictable. I, for one, am glad to see things shaken up a bit,

Starting point is 00:19:12 and very interested to see if we can inspire a new era of compromise, debate, and an even more even distribution of power. All right, that is it for my take, which brings us to your questions answered. This one is from Shannon in Newport, Washington. Shannon said, why do you state the label of each side when you sum up what they're saying? Why don't you say one side and the other side? I think that would be a lot more helpful in uncovering our own biases and more fun, too. So we actually get this question regularly. I think I may have answered it a couple times in

Starting point is 00:19:45 the newsletter over the past few years, but it's been long enough that it's probably worth addressing again. For starters, I think there is some upside to framing things the way we do. For instance, if you are a left-leaning person and you read an argument from the right that resonates, that is probably a good and healthy thing. It helps you respect the other side's perspective and may even make you more sympathetic to their argument or, hell, even change your mind. Second, I've also heard from a lot of readers who want to know what each side is arguing because it helps inform their vote. Sometimes we do play with the format when there are no clear dividing lines as we did in a piece on section 230 where the sections were broken up by people who were in favor of Section 230 and people who wanted to abandon it. I will keep doing that when it seems

Starting point is 00:20:30 appropriate, but for now, you can expect that part of the format to largely stay the same. I also think most readers are going to know the ideological tilt of the argument anyway, so I don't think it would really matter. For instance, if we were to put an argument up from the Wall Street Journal editorial board in an ambiguously labeled section like on the one hand, it's not as if people won't know what side they're representing. The only way to resolve that would be to not include the source of the argument, but then we run into the problem of not attributing the writers we are quoting. It is concerning to me that this structure reinforces the myth of the left and the right's intractability. It's also concerning that some readers will skip over certain sections

Starting point is 00:21:08 because they think they know that side's argument or they simply don't want to hear it. But ultimately, we are trying to both inform people and get them out of their bubbles, and I think making it clear where the partisan dividing lines are, and including a wide range of views within those lines is the best way to do that. All right, that is it for our reader question today, which brings us to our under-the-radar section. The Sunday Times has published a controversial piece on what really went on inside the Wuhan lab weeks before COVID-19 spread across the globe. The piece alleges that researchers had discovered a new kind of coronavirus in 2016 in a mine shaft in China and then transported the virus to the Wuhan Institute of Virology. There, researchers made the virus more contagious to

Starting point is 00:21:57 humans while exploring vaccine possibilities as well as biological weapons. The reporters allege the virus then leaked into the city of Wuhan after a laboratory accident, according to anonymous U.S. investigators. This piece has been the subject of much criticism, including a viral, no pun intended, Twitter thread from virologist Dr. Angela Rasmussen. We have links to both the story and the criticism of the piece in today's newsletter and today's episode description. of the piece in today's newsletter and today's episode description. All right, next up is our Blindspot Report. Once a week, we present the Blindspot Report from our partners at Ground News, an app that tells you the bias of news coverage and what

Starting point is 00:22:37 stories people on each side are missing. The Right missed a story about how 4% of the adult population, or roughly 12 million Americans, think violence is justified to restore Trump to the White House, according to a new survey. The left missed a story about BioNTech facing its first lawsuit over side effects from the COVID-19 vaccine. All right, next up is our numbers section. The number of years since a rule was voted down on the House floor by the party proposing it was 21. The number of House Freedom Caucus Republicans who helped sink the rule was 11. The percentage of members of Congress who have served for six years or fewer is 56%, according to Pew. The percentage of members of the House Freedom Caucus and its

Starting point is 00:23:24 allies who have served six years or fewer is 71%. The percentage of members of Congress who have served for 20 or more years in Congress is 13%. The percentage of members of the House Freedom Caucus who have served for over 20 years is 0%. All right, and last but not least, our have a nice day section. All right, and last but not least, our have a nice day section. The Houston Zoo is having its elephants do yoga. Every morning, the zoo's elephants participate in a static or slow motion stretching practice to help them strengthen muscle groups while stimulating their brains and bodies. During the session, zookeepers get a full look at the elephants from trunk to tail and check on their range of motion.

Starting point is 00:24:04 To help keep them motivated to move, the elephants from trunk to tail and check on their range of motion. To help keep them motivated to move, the elephants are rewarded with special treats like whole wheat bread or bananas. The elephants get to stretch their limbs and some can even do headstands. Cultivating strong, positive relationships with our elephants is critical, said Kristen Wendell, Houston Zoo Elephant Supervisor. The elephant yoga stretching sessions allow us to build that relationship using positive reinforcement to increase their range of motion and get eyes on their skin, feet, and inside their mouths. We can learn a lot about our elephants in these important sessions. Good News Network has the story and there's a link to it in today's episode description.

Starting point is 00:24:41 All right, everybody, that is it for today's podcast. Quick reminder, tickets on sale, Philadelphia, August 3rd. Be there Thursday night. Going to be drinks, guests, political debate, a chance to meet the team at Tangle. It's going to be fun. It's at Brooklyn Bowl in Philadelphia, which has awesome food and obviously some bowling, which will probably be available after the event. Yeah, you should come. Tickets are cheap.

Starting point is 00:25:05 They're like 25 bucks. And we need to sell this baby out so we can do a tour and come to your city or other cities after this. If you are in the Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Maryland, Delaware, New York, Washington, D.C. area, I think it would be awesome if you showed up. Also, West Virginia.

Starting point is 00:25:22 I mean, Ohio, if you really wanted to make a trip, fly out. Philadelphia is a great city. Tickets for the event are on sale at readtangle.com backslash live. There's also a link in today's episode description. And of course, don't forget to go check out our YouTube channel where we have a new video up right now and a new video coming out tomorrow evening on the Trump indictment. We'll be right back here at same time tomorrow. Have a good one. Peace. Our podcast is written by me, Isaac Saul, and edited by John Long.

Starting point is 00:26:00 Our script is edited by Ari Weitzman, Bailey Saul, and Sean Brady. The logo for our podcast was designed by Magdalena Bukova, who's also our social media manager. Music for the podcast was produced by Diet 75. For more on Tangle, please go to readtangle.com and check out our website. We'll be right back. about a world beyond Chinatown. When he inadvertently becomes a witness to a crime, Willis begins to unravel a criminal web, his family's buried history, and what it feels like to be in the spotlight. Interior Chinatown is streaming November 19th, only on Disney+.

Tangle - The House Freedom Caucus revolt.

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