Tangle - The ICJ's ruling on genocide in Gaza.

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Starting point is 00:01:00 From executive producer Isaac Saul, this is Tangle. Good morning, good afternoon, and good evening, and welcome to the Tangle podcast, the place we get views from across the political spectrum, some independent thinking, cast, a place we get views from across the political spectrum, some independent thinking, and a little bit of my take. I'm your host, Isaac Saul, and it is Monday, January 29th. Today, we are going to be talking about the ICJ, that's the International Court of Justice in The Hague at the United Nations, and its ruling on charges of genocide being levied by South Africa against Israel. Before we jump into that, a quick heads up in case you missed it. On Friday, I sat down with Tangle managing editor Ari Weitzman for our new weekly installment, this new podcast we are doing.

Starting point is 00:01:59 It came out Sunday morning. If you are a Tangle podcast subscriber, which I know many of you are, you probably got it popping up in your feed. Ari and I discussed my writing process, how typos make it into Tangle, the New Hampshire primary, an upcoming interview with Bill O'Reilly that's happening. He's going to come on the Tangle podcast, which some people object to. We talked a bit about that, the recent layoffs in the media space, and as always, our new shtick, our grievances from the week. This is part of a new weekly podcast segment we're doing together where we try to pull the curtain back on Tangle and evaluate some of our work in real time. It is part of our renewed focus on the podcast here. As some of you have

Starting point is 00:02:43 been listening have noticed, we've brought in some guests here and there for the podcast here. As some of you have been listening, have noticed, we've brought in some guests here and there for the podcast as well. We're not doing that today, but that is something we are going to try to do more regularly. And we're taking your feedback on that. So if you have thoughts about any of these changes, you have feedback on the episodes Ari and I are doing together. You have thoughts about the guests, pro, con, happy, sad, annoyed, good and bad, whatever it is, drop us a note. It's super helpful for us to hear from you to help guide our future decisions. Isaac, I-S-A-A-C at readtangle.com is the best way to reach me and put something about the podcast in the subject line of your email. And yeah, I love hearing from listeners and we are making

Starting point is 00:03:25 some changes and investing in some stuff and we want to make sure we're doing the right things here. All right. So with that out of the way, we're going to jump in today with some quick hits. First up, three United States troops were killed and dozens were injured in a drone strike on a remote military outpost in Jordan. This marks the first time U.S. troops have been killed in a Middle East strike since the war in Israel broke out. U.S. officials blamed Iranian proxies for the attack and vowed to respond. Number two, House Republicans unveiled articles of impeachment against Homeland Security Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas, blaming him for a surge of illegal border crossings and drug trafficking.

Starting point is 00:04:11 Number three, Texas has continued its standoff with the federal government over border policy, refusing the federal government's request for access to the border in Eagle Pass, Texas, and promising to erect more barriers despite a recent Supreme Court order to remove some. Number four, Peter Navarro, the longtime Trump aide, was sentenced to four months in prison for defying a congressional subpoena. And number five, Alabama carried out the first known execution by nitrogen hypoxia on Thursday night. after well over three months of constant israeli bombardment in gaza all eyes are on a courthouse more than 3 000 kilometers away in the netherlands south africa wants the un's top legal body, the

Starting point is 00:05:05 International Court of Justice, to order an immediate ceasefire as part of its interim judgment expected in a matter of hours in a case being brought under the Genocide Convention. Breaking news this morning. The International Court of Justice has ordered Israel to refrain from any acts that fall under the Genocide Convention. But it stopped short of ordering a halt to Israeli military action in Gaza. The court considers that, with regard to the present situation, Israel must, in accordance with its obligations under the Genocide Convention, in relation to Palestinians in Gaza,

Starting point is 00:05:42 take all measures within its power to prevent the commission of all acts within the scope of Article 2 of the Convention. On Friday, the International Court of Justice, or the ICJ, in The Hague, the Netherlands, issued a 29-page interim ruling on the charges of genocide being levied by South Africa against Israel. A quick reminder, the 1948 Genocide Convention was created in the wake of the mass murder of Jews during the Holocaust. It defines genocide as acts committed with the intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial, or religious group. Notably, the ICG has no enforcement mechanism and no way to forcibly compel a

Starting point is 00:06:25 ceasefire in Gaza. However, the court's perspective carries a great deal of weight with both Israelis and Palestinians, and its determinations can guide international responses to conflict. The court ruled that Israel must take action to prevent acts of genocide by its forces in Gaza, prevent and punish any incitements to commit genocide, and preserve any evidence related to allegations of genocide. It also called on Israel to allow more aid into the enclave. At least some of the acts and omissions alleged by South Africa to have been committed by Israel and Gaza appear to be capable of falling within the provisions of the genocide convention, the judges said. However, the judges did not call on Israel to suspend its military campaign, as it did with Russia and Ukraine, after it ruled that

Starting point is 00:07:10 Russia's premise for its war was based on a falsehood. And any ruling on any charge of genocide is likely to take years. The court also expressed concern about the hostages being held by Hamas in Gaza. Fifteen of the court's 17 judges voted in favor of the provisional measures, including the court's president, Joan Donahue. Uganda's Julia Sabdouni and Israel's Aran Barak voted against the central claims. The ICJ's determination received a mixed reaction in the Arab world, with some arguing the court had demonstrated Israel was violating international law, while others expressed disappointment that the court did not call for an end to the war. Israeli officials have been outraged by the trial and criticized the court for even hearing the charges in the first place.

Starting point is 00:07:53 During the hearing, South Africa argued that Israel means to create conditions of death and is waging war in a way that would kill Gazan residents both through military force and the reality of the situation on the ground. South Africa's lawyers cited comments from Israeli officials, including Israel Defense Minister Yoav Galant, who called for a complete siege on Gaza and said Israel is fighting human animals in Hamas. Israel's lawyers made the case that it has been taking extraordinary measures to alert civilians of strikes and preserve civilian life. It argued that it delayed its initial military operation two weeks to allow civilians to flee northern Gaza and has since allowed daily aid into the territories. Separately, 12 employees of the United Nations Relief and Work Agency, UNRWA, were accused of being involved in the Hamas-led

Starting point is 00:08:41 attack on Israel. The UNRWA fired nine of the employees and said it is investigating the charges. Negotiators in Israel also said they are closing in on a deal to pause fighting for two months in exchange for the release of over 100 hostages in Gaza. Today, we're going to explore some arguments about the ICJ ruling from the left and the right, and then my take. We'll be right back after this quick commercial break. First up, we'll start with what the right is saying. The right is highly critical of the ICJ's decision, arguing it raises doubts about the legitimacy of the court. Some say the wrong side is being tried for these crimes. Others say the ruling will have no practical effect, but Israel needs to be careful about how it proceeds in the

Starting point is 00:09:34 next phase of the war. National Review's editors said the ICJ discredits itself in ruling against Israel. The case against Israel is morally bankrupt. On October 7th, terrorists based in Gaza invaded Israel and massacred more than 1,200 people, ranging from babies to the elderly, set houses on fire, raped women, and kidnapped hundreds of civilians, the editors wrote. Israel has sought to minimize civilian casualties and is allowed for the flow of humanitarian aid when fighting against an enemy that hides behind civilians and steals humanitarian aid. The decision exposed as a farce the entire system of international law and government. The ICJ is an offshoot of the United Nations, which has a history of disproportionately

Starting point is 00:10:14 targeting Israel for condemnation relative to the likes of Syria, North Korea, Iran, Russia, and China, the editor said. The court has no enforcement mechanism, and because it stopped short of calling for an outright ceasefire, it will merely add to the pile of arguments over whether Israel is doing enough to protect civilian lives. But critics had hoped that a ruling against Israel would prove to be a stain on the Jewish state. Instead, it is a permanent stain on the credibility of the court. In hot air, Ed Morrissey questioned the strange and shameful ruling. In the war launched by Hamas and Gazans against Israel on October 7th, only one side has publicly and repeatedly promised genocidal extinction to the other. The International Court of Justice

Starting point is 00:10:56 has predictably decided that the target of that genocidal ambition has to answer for its self-defense, Morrissey wrote. Hamas has frequently violated the rules of war, engaged in offensive operations out of uniform, hiding military assets and operations within civilian structures, and deliberately targeted unarmed civilians for both murder and widespread rape and pillaging. Hamas is the recognized government in Gaza. If the Gazans want the war to end, they can formally capitulate to the aggrieved party and surrender Hamas leaders and terrorists, just like any other nation would have to do to sue for peace, Morrissey added. The ICJ is trying the wrong party in this war, but because it's an

Starting point is 00:11:35 adjunct of the United Nations, the ICJ's anti-Israel bias is what drove this ruling, not justice, and serves as another reminder of the uselessness of the UN and the ICJ. In The Spectator, Alexander Horan suggested it will be difficult for Israel to ignore this ICJ ruling. The Israeli government has long-standing and reasonable concerns about the political biases at the UN. However, the ICJ is a legal body, and its reasoned judgment will be more difficult for Israel and its allies to ignore. It is significant that the ad hoc Israeli judge on the court, Aaron Barak, a former president of the Israeli Supreme Court, voted in favor of the measures designed to stop incitement and to provide humanitarian assistance, Horn said. Despite concerns raised by the ICJ, one should

Starting point is 00:12:21 not conclude that Israel will be found guilty of genocide. Proving genocide will be very difficult. The ruling is clearly a shot across the bow for Israel and may result in further political pressure being brought to bear by its allies in the West. If Israel agrees to comply with these provisional measures, it may have to adapt its approach in Gaza. Israeli politicians would be well advised to tone down their rhetoric and make clear that their war aims are simply the return of the hostages and the removal of Hamas from power. Any future ruling on the question of whether the ICJ believes Israel is guilty of genocide remains some years away. In the short term, the conflict will continue. All right, that is it for what the right is saying, which brings us to what the left is saying.

Starting point is 00:13:17 The left mostly supports the ICJ's ruling, framing it as a measured rebuke of Israel's most extreme actions in the war. Some disagree and say the decision ignores the steps Israel has taken to minimize the death toll in the war. Others say the ruling should prompt the United States government to change its posture towards Israel or risk its own credibility. In the New York Times, Lydia Polgreen wrote, if we want to live in a world with rules, they have to apply to Israel too. Reading the document South Africa prepared, I wondered if the leaders of the Western world who dismissed the allegations out of hand read the same evidence that I had. It is a harrowing chronicle of a charnel house of horrors that shows in detail how Palestinians in Gaza have endured relentless bombing and displacement. I was struck by how thoroughly documented the allegations were and how selective the jurors were in their sources of evidence, Polgreen said. This is exactly the kind of dispute the International Court of Justice was created to address.

Starting point is 00:14:09 Despite the International Court of Justice's lack of enforcement mechanisms, this case matters a great deal because it speaks directly to the blunt challenges facing the American-led global rules-based order that has endured, with some bumps along the way, since the end of World War II, Paul Green wrote. When it comes to crimes like genocide and ethnic cleansing, it simply does not matter who started it. They can no more be justified than Hamas's wonton slaughter on October 7th. The best way to shore up the rules-based order is to be seen, in word and deed, as committing to the institutions and moral commitments of that order. In the Washington Post, Ruth Marcus called

Starting point is 00:14:45 the ruling a perversion of justice. This is a gross misreading of genocide. Indeed, it is a perversion of the term. It would be appalling applied against any state, but it is especially offensive wielded against Israel, a country that was forged in the ashes of the worst genocide in human history, that was one of the early signatories to the Genocide Convention and that is now responding to the greatest slaughter of Jews since the Holocaust, Marcus said. If there is a party guilty of genocidal intent and acts in this war, it is Hamas. None of this is to defend the entirety of Israel's actions before or after October 7th. I am a proud Jew and Zionist, but I am also no supporter of the Israeli government under Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu

Starting point is 00:15:27 and his ultra-Orthodox and settler allies, Marcus said. Israel has taken extraordinary steps to prevent civilian casualties and otherwise mitigate the suffering of innocents. To argue those have not been enough, or even that Israel's conduct violated international human law, is not to conclude that the actions are

Starting point is 00:15:45 genocidal. Can Indigenous ways of knowing help kids cope with online bullying? At the University of British Columbia, we believe that they can. Dr. Johanna Sam and her team are researching how both Indigenous and non-Indigenous youth cope with cyber aggression, working to bridge the diversity gap in child psychology research. At UBC, our researchers are answering today's most pressing questions. To learn how we're moving the world forward, visit ubc.ca forward happens here. The flu remains a serious disease. Last season, over 102,000 influenza cases have been reported across Canada, which is nearly double the historic average of 52,000 influenza cases have been reported across Canada, which is nearly double the historic average of 52,000 cases. What can you do this flu season?

Starting point is 00:16:35 Talk to your pharmacist or doctor about getting a flu shot. Consider FluCellVax Quad and help protect yourself from the flu. It's the first cell-based flu vaccine authorized in Canada for ages six months and older, and it may be available for free in your province. Side effects and allergic reactions can occur, and 100% protection is not guaranteed. Learn more at flucellvax.ca. In The Guardian, Zaha Hazan argued that the ruling is a wake-up call for Washington. Whether this new ruling becomes another footnote in UN lore will depend on what the United Nations member states, in particular the United States, do in response. The U.S. has been trying very hard not to acknowledge what has been taking place in Gaza since October 7th. The 25,000 Palestinian dead, mostly women and children,

Starting point is 00:17:16 are, in the U.S. administration's eyes, just the unfortunate and unavoidable costs of Israel exercising its right to self-defense, Hassan said. The ICJ's ruling should make it much harder for the Biden administration to continue to look away. The U.S. has the power to take decisive action to change Israel's approach instead of blocking U.N. Security Council resolutions calling for an immediate ceasefire. It must now lead the to that end. Instead of bypassing Congress to ship arms or proceeding with new military aircraft sales to Israel, it must suspend all offensive arms transfers, Hassan wrote. As the death toll in Gaza mounts, the U.S. is losing any credibility as a normative actor. Failing to use its leverage over Israel as it continues to destroy Gaza and its people

Starting point is 00:18:00 will be something that haunts the conduct of U.S. foreign policy for decades to come. All right, that is it for What the Left and the Right are Saying, which brings us to my take. So in a piece I wrote in early December titled, Ten Thoughts on What is Happening in Israel, I grappled with this question of genocide. At the time, I wrote that I didn't find the debate particularly useful, and I was not interested in engaging in it. Since then, my opinion hasn't really changed. No matter what you call it, the Arab bombardment has wrought intolerable horror on Palestinian citizens in Gaza. has wrought intolerable horror on Palestinian citizens in Gaza. I've watched as Israelis push Gazans to flee and then gone and attacked areas where they just told them were safe. As I argued on Thursday, I think the ground invasion has been a mistake that is making Israelis less safe and isolating Israel on the world stage. The genocide conversation is, in effect, a debate about semantics and definitions, and regardless of where you land, it doesn't change much about the reality on the ground for Israelis and Palestinians.

Starting point is 00:19:14 But that does not mean the ICJ's proceedings don't matter. As I said then, if I'm being asked to explain my position here, it is that Israel is not committing genocide in Gaza. There are several basic reasons I feel this way. Armies that commit genocide don't tend to delay their ground invasions and warn civilians to flee. They don't typically treat the wounded from the other side, even when the wounded were just attacking them. In Israel's case, they also wouldn't put their own soldiers on the front lines of a harrowing ground invasion in an urban war when they could just levy an air bombardment if all they cared about were killing Palestinians. Finally, while Israel and Egypt have done far less to allow international aid into Gaza than I would prefer, militaries committing genocide don't usually do things like open corridors for aid groups, which Israel has

Starting point is 00:19:55 done. Much of South Africa's case about genocidal intent, and the case made by many on social media, is based on comments from top Israeli officials, the actual decision makers about this war. But as Yair Rosenberg documented, many of those comments have been mistranslated, misattributed, or taken out of context. One startling example comes from Israeli Defense Minister Yoav Galat, who's been accused of calling for the elimination of Gaza when what he actually said was that Gaza will not return to what it was before. There will be no Hamas. We will eliminate it all. Golan's comments were made in Hebrew and were mistranslated by Western press all over the globe, including NPR, the New York Times, BBC, and The Guardian. His comments were also invoked by South Africa in their charges of

Starting point is 00:20:42 genocide as proof that top Israeli officials had genocidal intent. This is just one of several examples. And yes, there have been indefensible comments from lower-ranking officials that were not mistranslations, but the mistakes in quoting top Israeli officials undercut the common genocide argument against Israel. I don't want my resistance to describing Israel's actions in this war as genocide mistaken as a broad defense for those actions, nor do I want to defend this iteration of the Israeli government, including the failed leader Benjamin Netanyahu. Every war is fraught with difficult calculations, but I think Israel has shown a tolerance for

Starting point is 00:21:22 civilian deaths in a way no army should. We know, for example, that in the United States war in Afghanistan, their baseline for attacking a military target was typically to accept zero civilian casualties. We know that in a theoretical strike to kill Osama bin Laden, they were willing to accept 30 civilian casualties. It appears, at the very least, that Israel's tolerance for civilian death in this war has been much higher by comparison. But I don't think that means Israel or its war cabinet is genocidal. I think it means Israeli politicians feel the public pressure and responsibility to do everything they can to

Starting point is 00:22:01 destroy any remnant of Hamas, even if it means many thousands of Palestinian innocents die along the way. And I understand why calling Israel's determination to kill an organization with actual, open, genocidal intent an act of genocide enrages many Israelis and Zionists. This position doesn't make you a lot of friends. After the ICJ's ruling last week, one Tangle subscriber wrote in to let me know they were unsubscribing now because this is not just a matter of semantics. The ICJ has ruled that it is probable that genocide is being committed and that my opinion was pure and utter bullshit. I tried to explain the ICJ didn't actually rule that and this is actually in part

Starting point is 00:22:43 a debate about semantics, but to no avail. The same day, another Tangle reader wrote in to tell me that I was not as smart as I think, and a fallen hook, line, and sinker for low IQ talking points from liberals on Israel, and that by not standing behind a full-throttled offensive on Hamas and Gaza, I've proved I have no idea how to recognize evil and stand solidly behind those who want to eradicate it. In other words, I'm not intelligent enough and I lack the moral clarity to understand that backing Israel's actions unequivocally in Gaza is the only right thing to do. People see these issues differently, and that is fine. But the reactions above and the debate

Starting point is 00:23:21 broadly about this question point to a simple reality. This is not a black and white or simple question. As I've said before, even experts on war crimes, genocide, and human rights are deeply divided about Israel's actions and don't agree about how the ICJ should be defining it. Most of this, again, strikes me as a distraction from more important debates about the horrific conditions on the ground in Gaza, what to do with Hamas, how to mend the wounds of this war, how to rebuild Gaza, how to get the hostages home, and how Israel can stop this military campaign without making itself vulnerable to another attack. Ultimately, though, the ICJ's ruling is fine. It demands that Israel follow international law, punish genocidal incitement, and ensure it isn't committing genocide in Gaza. It notably does not tell Israel what to do with its military campaign, nor does it make

Starting point is 00:24:10 any determination about genocide in Gaza, as such a determination will and should take time and resources to investigate. Every reasonable person should support this framing, and I'm glad to, even if I think the charge itself is misguided. We'll be right back after this quick break. All right, that is it for my take, which brings us to your questions answered. This one's from Ryan in Rochester, New York. Ryan said, can you disclose your revenue financing sources and where that money goes? I ask because this is one of my hangups with most media sources in that they tend to be beholden to their financiers and their political leanings. As you grow and ad dollars become more appealing, I wouldn't blame you for tapping into that stream if you haven't already to scale this awesome publication. I do think in the name of transparency and

Starting point is 00:25:09 objectivity, posting somewhere on your page where your money comes from and where it goes would further secure the Tangles brand image as a truly independent news source. So I'm actually happy to do this because it's actually pretty simple. We have zero investors or financers. We earn revenue through premium subscriptions and selling ads. If you are a free subscriber, you'll see ads at the top of our newsletters and you'll hear them in the podcast. Those advertisements earned us about $60,000 in revenue last year compared to over $700,000 of revenue that came from Tangle subscriptions. To put that differently, 92% of our revenue still comes from Tangle subscribers. We are and continue to be a

Starting point is 00:25:52 publication that lives and dies on our readers supporting us. If you are not yet a member, now is a good time to change that. As for where that money goes, that is also, so far, still a pretty simple operation. We have a team of five full-time employees, two part-time editors, and typically a rotation of two paid interns at a time. We also hire various freelancers for tasks that come up, like our current website redesign. The vast majority of revenue goes to paying these people, aka payroll. Because our team is spread out across the country, three of our employees, including me, also pay for shared office spaces, which is another big expense. Mine is the most

Starting point is 00:26:32 expensive, as I have a room to myself that functions as a studio for YouTube and podcasting. Next up is advertising. These days, I'm trying to spend as much of what's left over from that pie on ads, because growing our audience is now my primary concern. Some ad buys are as small as $1,000. Others are as big as $20,000. We mostly advertise in other newsletters but are starting to experiment more with social campaigns, video ads, and influencer deals. Interestingly, one of our biggest expenses people probably don't think of is our own subscriptions. Given that we try to go out and find so many opinions on the news, we run into

Starting point is 00:27:09 new publications with fresh paywalls all the time, from digital publications to podcasts to streaming television. I'm a firm believer in supporting news outfits and not finding ways around their paywalls. As a result, literally tens of thousands of dollars of our budget goes towards paying for access to pieces of other publications, from the Wall Street Journal, all the way down to a small local newspaper that had a column we wanted to read. Then, of course, we have taxes, woof, legal fees, the money we spend to maintain our website and send emails, and all the various equipment, computers, microphones, cameras, that the team uses. We also have a policy of funding career development opportunities for members of the team.

Starting point is 00:27:49 We put the occasional business meal on the credit card. And right now, given that they aren't yet profitable, we spend a lot of money to produce and publish our podcast and our YouTube channel. Altogether, those expenses account for about 99% of where our money goes. All right, that is it for today's reader question, which brings us to our under the radar section. A policy suggestion has turned into a culture war flashpoint. After Democratic Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer suggested the FDA investigate Zin, the maker of one of the country's most popular tobacco pouches. Zin is the leading brand of nicotine patches and sold over 800 million units in the first three months of 2022. They are a cultural phenomenon, too, with

Starting point is 00:28:37 online influencers and comedy sketches made about their use. Schumer alleges that Zin's marketing tactics are a threat to team health. However, users suggest they are a great tool for quitting smoking, and some personalities, like Tucker Carlson, advertise them as an easy way to get a midday boost in energy. Representative Marjorie Taylor Greene, the Republican from Georgia, jokingly called for a Zinn-surrection. The Hill has the bizarre but important story, and there's a link to it in today's episode description. All right, next up is our numbers section. The number of cases heard by the International Court of Justice from its first case in 1947 through 2023 has been 192. The number of permanent members of the UN Security Council with the power to veto enforcement

Starting point is 00:29:25 of any ICJ decision is five. It's China, France, Russia, the United Kingdom, and the United States. The number of member states of the United Nations is 193. The number of member states that have formally recognized the jurisdiction of the ICJ to date is 74. The percentage of Americans who say the Israeli government's military response to Hamas' attack has been too harsh is 30%, according to The Economist and YouGov, which conducted a poll last week. The percentage of Americans who say the Israeli government's military response has not been harsh enough is 17%. The percentage of Americans who say Israel is committing genocide against the Palestinians is 35%. And the percentage of Americans who say Israel is not committing genocide is 36%.

Starting point is 00:30:10 And last but not least, our Have a Nice Day section. A new federal rule announced on January 17th will speed up health insurance company decisions on whether to authorize or deny medical care or treatments for millions of patients. The Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services rule is aimed at increasing prior authorizations, a longstanding health insurance industry policy that vet requests before allowing medical professionals to go forward with billing by requiring insurers to approve or deny requests within 72 hours. The new rule will take effect in 2026 for private Medicare, Medicaid, and Affordable Care Act health insurance plans.

Starting point is 00:30:50 USA Today has the story, and there's a link to it in today's episode description. All right, everybody, that is it for today's podcast. As I mentioned at the top, if you haven't yet, please go check out the pod we publish on Sunday morning. Ari and I chatting about all things Tangle, some upcoming stuff. These are fun, I think engaging podcasts. It's nice to have somebody to chat with. And Ari's a great co-host, asks a lot of awesome questions.

Starting point is 00:31:26 And it's, yeah, it's a good time to chop it up. And we want to give you guys something new and we want people to listen to it. So please go check it out. Let us know what you think. Don't forget, you can always reach me, Isaac, I-S-A-A-C at retangle.com. We'll be right back here same time tomorrow. Have a good one. Have a good one. Peace. podcast was designed by Magdalena Bokova, who is also our social media manager. Music for the podcast was produced by Diet75. And if you're looking for more from Tangle, please go to readtangle.com and check out our website. We'll be right back. to a crime, Willis begins to unravel a criminal web, his family's buried history, and what it feels like to be in the spotlight. Interior Chinatown is streaming November 19th, only on Disney+. The flu remains a serious disease. Last season, over 102,000 influenza cases have been

Starting point is 00:32:56 reported across Canada, which is nearly double the historic average of 52,000 cases. What can you do this flu season? Talk to your pharmacist or doctor about getting a flu shot. Consider Thank you.

Tangle - The ICJ's ruling on genocide in Gaza.

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