Tangle - The Israel-Palestine protests in the U.S.
Episode Date: October 16, 2023The protests in the United States. All across the U.S., pro-Israel and pro-Palestine protests have been roiling college campuses and cities, with high tension leading to political fallout and occasion...al violence.You can read the pieces by Jonathan Katz here and here.You can read today's podcast here, today’s Under the Radar story here, and today’s “Have a nice day” story here. You can also check out our latest YouTube video, a recording of the “My Take” from Tuesday’s Israel piece here.Today’s clickables: Welcome! (0:43), Quick hits (1:57), Today’s story (3:55), Right’s take (7:58), Left’s take (12:29), Isaac’s take (17:18), Listener question (23:00), Under the Radar (25:40), Numbers (26:16), Have a nice day (27:08)You can subscribe to Tangle by clicking here or drop something in our tip jar by clicking here.Our podcast is written by Isaac Saul and edited by Jon Lall. Music for the podcast was produced by Diet 75. Our newsletter is edited by Bailey Saul, Sean Brady, Ari Weitzman, and produced in conjunction with Tangle’s social media manager Magdalena Bokowa, who also created our logo.--- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/tanglenews/message Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
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From executive producer Isaac Saul, this is Tangle.
Good morning, good afternoon, and good evening, and welcome to the Tangle podcast, the place
we get views from across the political spectrum, some independent thinking, and a little bit
of my take. I'm your host, Isaac Saul, and on today's episode, we're going to be
talking about the Israel and Palestine protests that are happening across the United States.
We're also going to give you a brief update on the current conflict. A quick note before we jump in, I want to say welcome. We have about 10,000 new Tangle readers
on the newsletter and many new listeners here on the podcast and viewers on the YouTube channel
who have joined in the last week or two. Thanks to some attention, some of our coverage of the
Israel-Palestine issue has gotten, as well as some big stories we published last week before that.
So thank you all for giving us a shot. A couple quick reminders. We do have a YouTube channel
where you can find all of our latest videos by looking up Tangle News on YouTube. Our newsletter
and podcast are 100% free Monday through Thursday. However, we do put most Friday editions of the
newsletter behind a paywall,
and we're going to start paywalling the occasional podcast in the near future. And as always,
if you're curious about what we cover, you can find our archive of the newsletters on our website,
readtangle.com, or you can just simply scroll back through the most recent podcasts,
which I encourage you to do.
All right, with that out of the way, we're going to jump in today with some quick hits.
First up, Representative Jim Jordan, the Republican from Ohio, defeated Representative Austin Scott, the Republican from Georgia, in a 124 to 81 vote for Speaker of the House.
Jordan will now face a floor vote where he'll need 217 votes to become Speaker.
Number two, federal prosecutors charged Senator Bob Menendez with conspiring to act as a foreign
agent on behalf of Egypt, adding to his indictment for bribery. Number three, following the attacks
in Israel, the Biden administration says Iran will no longer be able to access the $6 billion it had planned to
unfreeze. Number four, Attorney General Jeff Landry, the Republican, won a jungle primary
to become Louisiana's governor, surprising pollsters who thought there would be a runoff.
He will replace outgoing Democratic Governor John Bel Edwards.
Number five, President Biden's campaign raised over $70 million in the fundraising quarter that ended in September, outpacing current GOP contenders, but falling short of the fundraising
haul former President Trump had at this time in 2019. This escalating war was on the minds of so many Americans at home today,
playing out in protests, raw emotions, and heightened security around the country.
Tonight, from coast to coast, thousands are spilling into the streets
in emotional protests over the Israel-Hamas war.
College campuses across the country are divided over the Israel-Hamas war.
Leadership at Harvard in the hot seat now after failing to swiftly respond and denounce a letter posted by a student-run Harvard-Palestine solidarity group. The letter holding the Israeli regime
entirely responsible for all unfolding violence.
All across the U.S.,
pro-Israel and pro-Palestine protests
have been roiling college campuses and cities
with tension leading to political fallout
and the occasional violence.
In Times Square in Manhattan,
throngs of protesters came together to demand Palestinian independence. In Los Angeles,
pro-Palestine and pro-Israel protesters clashed. At Columbia University, hundreds of pro-Israel
and pro-Palestine protesters faced off in demonstrations. Student groups across the
country have been releasing competing messages as well, including at Ivy League institutions like Harvard, where public fury erupted after a
collection of student groups pinned the blame on Israel for Hamas's attack. Similar statements and
protests have been documented at the University of Arizona, University of California, Los Angeles,
Georgetown University, and a collection of colleges in Philadelphia. Pro-Palestine marches
took place in Atlanta, Los Angeles,
Chicago, Denver, San Diego, and Washington, D.C.
Online posts stating support of Hamas or Palestinians
are costing some people their jobs,
including a Philadelphia 76ers basketball reporter,
an Air Canada pilot, and a New York University law student
who had been hired to join a firm after college.
Even adult
film star Mia Khalifa, a Lebanese-American, was dropped from a partnership with Playboy
after stating her unwavering support for Palestinians. The demonstrations have ratcheted
up concern in Jewish communities where synagogues beefed up security over the weekend. In some
instances, tensions over the conflict appear to have turned to actual violence. Protests in Los Angeles devolved into shoving matches and volleys of pepper spray.
In Illinois, a 71-year-old man was charged Sunday with a hate crime after fatally stabbing a young boy
and wounding a woman because they were Muslim, according to authorities on the case.
Tensions are also flaring up in Europe and Asia.
In Germany and France, police have banned pro-Palestinian protests.
In the United Kingdom, flying a pro-Palestine flag may not be considered a legitimate expression of speech. And in some predominantly Muslim countries like Turkey, crowds have gathered to salute Hamas
and condemn Israel's response. Meanwhile, war on the ground is raging on. Israel's Prime Minister,
Benjamin Netanyahu, said he intends to completely dismantle
Hamas, suggesting a full-scale invasion of the Gaza Strip. Hamas is confirmed to have killed more
than 1,400 Israelis in their attack, as well as 30 U.S. citizens. 13 more U.S. citizens are still
missing and presumed to either be dead or among the more than 150 hostages, which includes babies and the elderly, currently being
held by Hamas. The Gaza Health Ministry says that 2,670 Palestinians have been killed so far
in retaliatory airstrikes by Israel. At least 10 journalists, including nine Palestinian reporters,
have already been killed in the attacks. Israel, which controls roughly one-third of drinking water in Gaza,
has partially restored that water in the southern part of the Strip. It continues to cut off the
flow of electricity and food into Gaza and ordered some 1.1 million people to evacuate the northern
part of the territory as air raids continued and some ground campaigns began. United Nations
workers say shelters in Gaza are now running out of water and hospitals are overwhelmed. Egypt continues to refuse to admit Palestinian refugees or open a
safe corridor of passage. Israel is also now defending itself in its northern border from
Lebanese Hezbollah fighters who launched airstrikes on army posts. Israel retaliated with strikes in
Lebanon. Iran, who has been accused of helping organize the Hamas
attacks, has sent a message to Israel calling for de-escalation and warning that it will intervene
if Israel's bombardment of Gaza continues. Today, we're going to take a look at some reactions to
the protests in the U.S. from the left and the right, as well as the latest developments on the
war, and then my take. First off, we'll start with what the right is saying. The right is outraged
by the campus protests that implicitly or explicitly support the actions of Hamas.
Some say it is acceptable to deny jobs and other opportunities to students who participate in these
protests and sign on to denunciations of Israel. Others say conservatives need to maintain a
consistent stance on free speech and criticize the protesters without attempting to silence them.
In The Atlantic, Conor Friederstorf wrote about how activist groups have already changed campus
politics in America by excusing the actions of Hamas. Campus politics in America irrevocably
changed this week when student groups that championed the noble goal of justice for
Palestinians endorsed the evil means of war crimes in pursuit of it, Friederstorf said.
Across America, millions of people with wildly diverse opinions on the longstanding
conflict between Israel and Palestine denounce those atrocities because it is always wrong to
deliberately target and slaughter civilians, and it is always wrong to abduct, let alone kill,
children. I naively believe that those were near-consensus beliefs on college campuses.
Then, this week, on dozens of campuses, student groups reacted to the attacks by attempting
to absolve the murderers and child abductors of all responsibility. I understand various reasons
why advocates for the Palestinian cause might keep quiet, as many supporters of Israel have done
after abuses of Palestinians. I understand why, thinking of loved ones in Gaza, they might skip
right to anticipating and preemptively denouncing
retaliatory attacks, hoping to avert the deaths of still more innocent people, Friederstorff said.
What I cannot understand is endorsing, validating, or standing in solidarity with war crimes. That
so many student organizations did so is stunning. It commits them to positions anathema not only to
the conservatives they often tangle with, but to left-leaning liberals and progressives, many of whom now perceive a frightening difference
in core values that too many had scarcely pondered before. In Newsweek, Mark R. Weaver
condemned the student protesters and argued that it's not cancel culture when people supporting
mass murder get fired. Students who signed on to statements blaming Israel for Hamas's attack
are now having job offers revoked and facing other consequences. A few cranks will claim this is the
latest example of cancel culture, but that's like calling a consumer's brand preference a boycott,
Weaver said. Publicly praising the beheading of infants and rape and murder of innocents
is an equibble about a costume or a poorly worded Facebook post.
It's a resignation letter from civil society. It's legal to send that letter and it's appropriate
for society to accept it. Those of us who are paying attention to modern trends aren't surprised
that this folly arose from a university setting. All too often, campus debates look less like an
American town hall and more like a Roman Colosseum. Attendees
are drawn to the events not for love of dialogue and discernment, but a lust for anger and agitation,
Weaver said. Students have a First Amendment right to express their views publicly, yet this right
exists side by side with moral considerations about their own and society's obligations.
Just as one has the right to speak out, others have the right to associate or dissociate based on the expressed views. In the Washington Examiner, Tom Rogan said,
shame do not silence Hamas supporters for their speech. It is the right of students at the
nation's nominally prestigious institutions to beclown themselves by pro-Hamas protests.
There is an intellectual and performative idiocy to these protesters,
who becloth themselves in face masks, the imperial eagle of left-wing identity politics,
and kefias. Still, the way to respond to those who support genocide against Jews is not to silence
them by force of law. The best response, as John Hassan shows, is to ensure the protesters are held
to the public record, Rogin said. The problem with
banning pro-Hamas protests as France has now done, or prosecuting those who wave the Palestinian
flags a la the United Kingdom, is that this approach destroys the sacred right of people
to speak freely on matters that concern them. This restrictive stance further restrains and
chills the public interest in debates on those subjects that matter most,
matters such as the current Hamas-Israel conflict. It encourages martyrdom complexes on the part of
those who are restricted, fueling extremism. It denies the public ignominy due of genocide support.
All right, that is it for the rightist thing, which brings us to what the left is saying.
Many on the left are concerned by the pro-Palestinian protests, but think activists should be protected from harassment, even if their speech is offensive. Some argue that
progressives across the U.S. are doing irreparable damage to their credibility by excusing Hamas's
actions.
Others say the protests are a justified response to Palestinian suffering at the hands of Israel.
In foreword, Harvard student Maya Bodnick called for safety, not harassment, for her pro-Palestinian classmates. I was shocked and appalled that the PSC statement failed to condemn Hamas's slaughter
of 1,300 Israelis, most of whom were civilians.
But even though I strongly disagree with the PSC, Harvard's Palestine Solidarity Committee
statement, I still believe that all students have the right to freedom of speech and, more
importantly, to feel safe on campus. In recent days, powerful right-wing figures and organizations
led by hedge fund billionaire Bill Ackman and the ironically named Accuracy and Media News Group
have whipped up a hateful mob against hundreds of Harvard students in a series of vicious doxing
attacks, Bodnick wrote. Some of the students listed online as members of these organizations
have never even attended a club meeting, much less personally endorsed this statement.
As I've sat in class this week, unable to focus as I think about Israeli girls my age being raped
and murdered, I felt deeply hurt that some of my peers signed a statement justifying this violence.
I was also disappointed by the Harvard administration's tepid initial response
to the attacks on October 9th. Yet I still feel that free speech matters because it is a fundamental
pillar of our American democracy, the first right granted to us in the Bill of Rights.
The violence in Israel has been immensely divisive on our campus, pillar of our American democracy, the first right granted to us in the Bill of Rights.
The violence in Israel has been immensely divisive on our campus, especially between the Muslim and Jewish communities. But while we may be deeply politically divided, I would urge
my Harvard classmates to find that we can agree on one thing. All students deserve to feel safe.
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In New York Magazine, Eric Levitt said many on the left are betraying their most fundamental values
by celebrating the attack on Israel. It is not hyperbole to say that many left-wing supporters
of Palestine celebrated Hamas's atrocities. The national leadership of Students for Justice in
Palestine declared the weekend's events as a historic win for the Palestinian resistance,
touting Hamas's success in catching the enemy
completely by surprise. The Connecticut chapter of the Democratic Socialists of America applauded
the Palestinian resistance's unprecedented anti-colonial struggle, pledged its solidarity
to that struggle, and vowed no peace on stolen land. All this is morally sick and intellectually
bankrupt. From my vantage, it looks as though a few leftists were eager to demonstrate their superlative
moral clarity by fighting with liberals about the legitimacy of a Palestinian uprising aimed
squarely at the IDF and conducted in the name of democratic equality, so eager that they
would not be deterred by the fact that the weekend's events bore scant resemblance to
that scenario, Levitt said.
It is a moral imperative
for progressives to condemn Hamas's atrocities, affirm the human rights of Jewish Israelis,
and reject the ethno-nationalist claim that Palestinians have a unique right to reside in
the region, and it is also a political imperative for them to do so. In Counterpunch, Gary Leop,
a professor at Tufts University, defended his campus' pro-Palestinian protesters and described their support as a spirited rally in March.
Palestinian students and their allies rallied once again in defense of the resistance movement,
the Infitada, the movement to shake off the oppressive settler state built on their suffering,
he said. What would these talking heads, experts, ex-government officials, house academics,
consultants, etc. have the Palestinian people do? They have no solution other than to insist that a two-state solution is possible. So about 300 of us on
Monday marched around Cambridge chanting long live the infatada, infatada, infatada, to Central
Square where an Israeli arms firm has its offices. Infatada, infatada. How can you say this now,
you ask, when Hamas terrorists have reportedly beheaded babies and murdered grandmothers posting
images on Facebook?
Because the world did not begin just now. There is such a thing as history. You can't choose the history you want, although you can make stuff up about yourself or your tribe or your imagined
community, Leop wrote. There is every reason to seethe with indignation at this human suffering
and those inflicting it. It has to be shaken off. That's why we chant, In fatata, in fatata.
All right, that is it for the left and the right are saying, which brings us to my take.
So, on the one hand, I find this whole thing quite disturbing. If you are someone who wants
to both criticize Israel and not throw your support behind the genocidal slaughter of citizens,
it is pretty easy to do. There are even some high-profile, pro-Palestine Jewish voices doing
it right now. See Jonathan Katz, whose pieces we have a link to in today's episode description.
see Jonathan Katz, whose pieces we have a link to in today's episode description.
This should not be hard. Many Western leftists have simply lost the plot. In case that point isn't clear enough, it is worth reminding everyone that the attack on Israel included the murder and
kidnapping of infants, the elderly, and civilians. Worse yet, many of the people killed in the attack
were peacemakers who had lived and worked alongside Gazans, which is common among those who live in the kibbutzes near Gaza. It is also common among
the kinds of Israelis you'll find at a late-night rave called the Festival of Peace and Love.
Civilians, American or Gazan, do not fully bear the responsibility of their leaders' actions.
Of course they don't. We wouldn't and shouldn't try to excuse an Iraqi militant killing a six-year-old American
because of George W. Bush's war in Iraq for the same reason why we shouldn't excuse Hamas's
killing of Israeli citizens in objection to the Israeli government, nor justify the death
of Palestinian children in response to those actions.
And yet, most people only seem capable of condemning the unthinkable violence when it's against their side.
This conflict can break people's brains.
Then there's also the timing part of all of these protests.
As many of you who regularly read this newsletter know, one their wives and children, I wouldn't go to the rally
against incarceration the next day. I'd feel deeply troubled and not at all gladdened by the news.
And yet, there are numerous instances of students or protesters stating their unambiguous support
and glee for what Hamas did. Then, on the other hand,
I can't help but wonder how much I should care about a statement from the Black Lives Matter
Chicago chapter on this conflict, or, say, the Students for Justice in Palestine at the University
of Chicago Twitter account with its less than 100 followers. Should these groups really be
making national news? Support for Israel in
the United States is still overwhelming. See today's numbers section and the takes from the
left and the right above. The pro-Palestine position is still a minority and the pro-what
Hamas did position is minuscule. To me, these demonstrators are not the power centers that
actually matter. They do not represent commonly held views that are a
priority in my mind. Instead, I'm far more concerned about a sitting U.S. senator who actually gets to
help decide the path forward, going on the most watched cable news network in America and saying
we are in a holy war before calling to level the place while talking about Gaza, where 2.3 million
people live. I'm more worried about the collective
swell of support for Hamas across the Arab world after the attacks. I'm more worried about Israel's
president denying the concept of innocent civilians on the eve of a major military offensive. I'm more
worried about Arab leaders like those in Egypt who are doing absolutely nothing to help the
Palestinian people. I'm more worried about the former leaders of Hamas, who successfully rallied tens of thousands of people into the streets
in Iraq, Iran, and Yemen with a global day of rage. And while I'm sure many of the protests
here in America include Palestinian Americans, whose voices I genuinely think we should hear,
I'm much more concerned about what is happening in those power centers than the en masse voices
of what in many cases is a bunch of college students and young liberals westernizing this
conflict and hitting the streets in support of Hamas's actions. But while we're here,
let me also say I'm glad these protests can happen in our country. Although Mark Weaver,
under what the right is saying, makes a cogent argument that a letter supporting Hamas is a resignation letter from civil society, there are documented cases of
people being fired for far less. I'm actually thankful that, unlike in France, Germany,
and the United Kingdom, where police are breaking up pro-Palestine protests,
these demonstrations have gone on here mostly uninhibited. As much as I abhor some of the
things that I'm seeing or hearing at those rallies, attempts to shut them down is both
a violation of civil liberties and antithetical to the American spirit. A lot of people have
compared this to Israel's 9-11. I'm typically allergic to these kinds of historical metaphors,
which are often overblown, but in this case, it is a pretty fair comparison. Accordingly,
we should remember all
the mistakes we made after 9-11 right now. We should expect the with-us-or-against-us mentality,
the bigotry, the blind lust for revenge, and we should be watchful of their recurrence.
Now, Israel could be on the brink of similar mistakes. In response to thousands of their
own civilians being killed, Israel has already killed thousands of Palestinians. And now signals are blaring in every direction that this battle may set off a larger regional war that could include Iran, Lebanon, and potentially even the United States, and Lord knows who else.
both sides of this conflict should understand how bad that would be for the region and the entire world and should understand that avoiding it will require necessary restraint. Otherwise,
we're just headed for more dead innocents. All right, that is it for my take, which brings us
to your questions answered. This one's from Joe in McFarland, Wisconsin.
Joe said, why is it that Democrats in the House don't use their voting power to influence which Republicans get elected as Speaker of the House? I can imagine they are holding out for some
concessions and don't want to support someone with untenable to them records. However, it seems to me
that knowing Hakeem Jeffries will never be elected Speaker, they could team up with moderate
Republicans and use their numbers to support what is for them the least bad option. It seems like a missed opportunity to me. What am
I missing? So first of all, Democrats are actually warming to a kind of half measure here. They're
thinking about empowering the interim Speaker, Representative Patrick McHenry, the Republican
from North Carolina, to pass some critical legislation. That would get them some of
what they want without having to say they voted for a permanent Republican speaker. But it is a
great question to consider moving forward, and when you game it out, you can see the catch-22
Democrats are in. Let's remember where we are. Republicans can't agree as a party who to align
with for House Speaker. No Republican consensus means that anyone who wins the speakership
has to win some Democratic votes. But Republicans would never vote for someone that Democrats would
vote for. What if they split into blocks and support different candidates? If the Republicans
are doing the same, that means no one is going to get a majority. All right, what if just 10
Democrats in the Problem Solvers Caucus say we'll support a moderate Republican? Well, see above,
it poisons the well, Republicans
won't nominate that person and they're left with nothing. So, horse trade with a mainstream
Republican? Well, any deal the Democrats want to cut with a non-moderate Republican would be one,
a deal they don't and maybe can't trust, and two, terrible optics for their base.
Then there are the reasons to want to stay aligned and continue to nominate Hakeem Jeffries. That's sort of what they're expected to do, so they lose no political capital
being Democrats voting for a Democrat and letting Republicans look bad. And on the absolute off
chance a few Republicans throw a vote behind Jeffries, they could end up winning. That is the
benefit of their strategy. Looking good to their base, a Hail Mary shot at a Jeffrey's speakership, and almost no
cost to them.
The alternative is a tenuous deal with a person they can't trust that is logically unlikely
to succeed and results in a leadership position for a lower chamber that is hopelessly divided
and whose dysfunction they would then share political responsibility for.
As much as I love a bipartisan speaker, I understand the
calculation Democrats are making. Do next to nothing and win a little, or attempt the impossible
and probably lose. All right, next up is our under the radar section. In the last 10 days,
Israel's Iron Dome missile defense system has likely intercepted
thousands of rockets and missiles launched from Gaza. Israel says more than 5,000 rockets have
been fired from Gaza since the start of the attack. The all-weather mobile system works
through a combination of radar, batteries that launch interceptor missiles, and communication
systems to track data on what is incoming. Axios has a new story explaining how
the Iron Dome works, and there's a link to it in today's episode description.
All right, next up is the numbers section. The percentage of Americans who say Israel's
military response to Hamas is somewhat or fully justified is 71%, according to a new CNN poll. The percentage of Americans
who say Israel's military response to Hamas is fully justified is 50%. The percentage of Americans
who say Israel's military response to Hamas is not justified at all is 8%, according to a new CNN
poll. The percentage of Americans who say they have a lot or some sympathy for the Israeli people
is 96%. Well, the percentage of Americans who say they have a lot or some sympathy for the Israeli people is 96%. Well,
the percentage of Americans who say they have a lot or some sympathy for the Palestinian people
is 87%. The percentage of Americans who think the U.S. has a responsibility to ensure peace
in the Middle East is 46%. And the percentage who do not think the U.S. has that responsibility is
50%. All right. and last but not least,
our have a nice day story.
When he went to prison,
Keith Corbin already had a deep connection to food.
His grandmother grew tomatoes and collard greens
in their yard and would wake up at 5 a.m.
to start cooking for people in her community.
After spending 10 years in prison,
he learned how to make good food out of anything,
like making peanut butter cups by baking syrup-soaked processed peanuts
and melting a Hershey's bar over top.
He brought that ingenuity to his Los Angeles restaurant, Alta Adams,
where he's become a successful entrepreneur and two-time James Beard Award winner.
Corbin and two other formerly incarcerated people
were recently profiled for their current success in the culinary world. The Guardian has the story and there's a link to it in today's episode description.
All right, everybody, that is it for today's podcast. As always, if you want to support our
work, please go to reetangle.com slash membership. We'll be right back here same time tomorrow. Have a good one. Peace.
Our podcast is written by me, Isaac Saul, and edited by John Long. Our script is edited by
Ari Weitzman, Bailey Saul, and Sean Brady. The logo for our podcast was designed by Magdalena
Bukova, who's also our social media manager. Music for the podcast was produced by Diet 75.
For more on Tangle, please go to readtangle.com
and check out our website.
Based on Charles Yu's award-winning book, We'll see you next time. Willis begins to unravel a criminal web, his family's buried history, and what it feels like to be in the spotlight.
Interior Chinatown is streaming November 19th, only on Disney+. What can you do this flu season? Talk to your pharmacist or doctor about getting a flu shot. Consider FluCellVax Quad and help protect yourself from the flu.
It's the first cell-based flu vaccine authorized in Canada for ages 6 months and older,
and it may be available for free in your province.
Side effects and allergic reactions can occur, and 100% protection is not guaranteed.
Learn more at FluCellVax.ca.