Tangle - The Michigan school shooting.

Episode Date: December 8, 2021

Last week, a 15-year-old boy named Ethan Crumbley was charged with murder and terrorism for a shooting that killed four students and injured several more at Oxford High School in Michigan. Then on Friday, prosecutors took the unusual step of also charging Ethan's parents, James and Jennifer Crumbley, with involuntary manslaughter.Karen McDonald, prosecutor for Oakland County, Michigan, says the Crumbleys committed "egregious" acts that contributed to the mass shooting, including buying Ethan the weapon, leaving it in an unsecure place, and ignoring obvious signs that their son could be dangerous. Under Michigan law, an involuntary manslaughter charge can be filed if authorities "believe someone contributed to a situation where there was a high chance of harm or death," according to the Associated Press. Both the Crumbleys entered not guilty pleas and are being held on $500,000 bond each.Last week, a 15-year-old boy named Ethan Crumbley was charged with murder and terrorism for a shooting that killed four students and injured several more at Oxford High School in Michigan. Then on Friday, prosecutors took the unusual step of also charging Ethan's parents, James and Jennifer Crumbley, with involuntary manslaughter.You can read today's episode here.You can subscribe to Tangle by clicking here or drop something in our tip jar by clicking here.Our newsletter is written by Isaac Saul, edited by Bailey Saul, Sean Brady, Ari Weitzman, and produced in conjunction with Tangle’s social media manager Magdalena Bokowa, who also created our logo.The podcast is edited by Trevor Eichhorn, and music for the podcast was produced by Diet 75.--- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/tanglenews/message Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Based on Charles Yu's award-winning book, Interior Chinatown follows the story of Willis Wu, a background character trapped in a police procedural who dreams about a world beyond Chinatown. When he inadvertently becomes a witness to a crime, Willis begins to unravel a criminal web, his family's buried history, and what it feels like to be in the spotlight. Interior Chinatown is streaming November 19th, only on Disney+. The flu remains a serious disease. Last season, over 102,000 influenza cases have been reported across Canada, which is Chinatown is streaming November 19th, only on Disney+. yourself from the flu. It's the first cell-based flu vaccine authorized in Canada for ages six months and older, and it may be available for free in your province. Side effects and allergic reactions can occur, and 100% protection is not guaranteed. Learn more at flucellvax.ca.

From executive producer Isaac Saul, this is Tangle. Good morning, good afternoon, and good evening, and welcome to the Tangle Podcast, a place where you get views from across the political spectrum, some independent thinking without all that hysterical nonsense you find everywhere else. I am your host, Isaac Saul, and on today's episode, we are going to be talking about the recent school shooting in Michigan and some of the charges that were brought against the parents of the alleged shooter, which is raising some interesting questions and bringing some new debates to the gun control conversation. Before we jump in, as always, we'll start with our quick hits. First up, Democrats and Republicans narrowly avoided a debt ceiling crisis, striking a deal yesterday to raise the limit with an unusual congressional maneuver. Number two, President Joe Biden and Russian President Vladimir Putin had a two-hour virtual meeting as tension over a potential Russian invasion of Ukraine continues to build.

tension over a potential Russian invasion of Ukraine continues to build. Number three, House and Senate negotiators reached an agreement that would strip power from the military commanders to prosecute sexual assaults and other criminal cases, handing that power instead over to independent military prosecutors. Number four, former White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows now says he will not cooperate with the House Select Committee investigating January 6th after previously indicating he would. 5. French officials arrested and then released a man suspected in the killing of journalist Jamal Khashoggi, saying it was a case of mistaken identity. All right, that is it for our quick hits, which brings us to today's main topic. The deadly school shooting in Michigan at Oxford High School. That's about an hour north of Detroit. Three students killed, at least eight others injured, including a teacher. An alleged lone gunman, a 15-year-old student, is in custody at this hour. Police say he was armed with a semi-automatic handgun. Well, we want to turn

now to that deadly school shooting in Oxford, Michigan, where there are new questions tonight about whether warning signs were ignored. The parents of the accused gunman are now in custody, and tonight we're learning more about the intense manhunt that led to their arrests. We begin with the news out of Michigan. The parents of alleged school shooter Ethan Crumley behind bars at the same jail as their son. Last week, a 15-year-old boy in Michigan named Ethan Crumley was charged with murder and terrorism for allegedly shooting four students and injuring several more at Oxford High School in Michigan. Then on Friday, prosecutors

took the unusual step of also charging Ethan's parents, James and Jennifer Crumley, with involuntary manslaughter. Karen McDonald, the prosecutor for Oakland County, Michigan, says the Crumleys committed egregious acts that contributed to the mass shooting, including buying Ethan the weapon, leaving it in an unsecure place, and ignoring obvious signs that Ethan would be dangerous. Under Michigan law, an involuntary manslaughter charge can be filed if authorities believe someone contributed to a situation where there was a high chance of harm or death. That's according to the Associated Press. where there was a high chance of harm or death. That's according to the Associated Press.

Both the Crumleys entered not guilty pleas and are being held on $500,000 bond each. According to the Associated Press and the prosecutors who filed the charges, we have a timeline of events that we'll briefly run through here. On November 26th, Ethan's dad, James, purchased him a nine millimeter handgun at Acme Shooting Goods.

Later that day, the 15-year-old posted a photo of himself with the gun on Instagram. On November 27th, Jennifer Crumley posted on social media Mom and Sunday testing out his new Christmas present. On November 28th, a school teacher saw Ethan searching for ammunition online during class and then reported him to school officials. Ethan met with the school counselor, saying he recently went to a shooting range with his mom and that shooting is a family hobby. School personnel then reached out to Jennifer Crumley, who does not reply. While texting her son, she says, lol, I'm not mad at you, you have to learn not to get caught, end quote. Later that day, after school, Ethan records a video in which he discusses killing students, according to Sheriff Lieutenant

Tim Willis. On November 30th, a teacher finds a concerning note on Ethan's desk, including a drawing of a handgun, a bloody bullet going through a person, laughing smiley faces, and words like, quote, the thoughts won't stop, help me, blood everywhere, my life is useless, and the world is dead. The teacher takes a photograph of the note and reports it. When Ethan is brought in and talking to counselors, he tells them he is designing a video game and has already scratched out portions of the note. His parents come to school and are advised they have 48 hours to take Ethan into counseling, but they refuse a request to take Ethan home and affirm his answers to the school that he is not a risk to any other students. His parents leave to return to work and Ethan goes

back to class. At 12 51 p.m. that day, he emerged from a bathroom with the gun his father purchased and began his shooting spree. As news of the shooting broke, Ethan's mom sends him a text. Ethan, don't do it, she says. At 1.37 p.m., Ethan's father calls 911 to report that a gun is missing from his house and he believes his son may be the active shooter at Oxford High School. The weapon was kept in an unlocked drawer in the parents' bedroom. On Friday, December 3rd, the Crumleys are charged. On December 4th, they're found hiding in a warehouse in Detroit and arrested. So, now what? Charging the parents of a school shooter is very unusual. In fact, it's basically unprecedented and signals a new strategy from prosecutors, one that legal experts

and gun violence activists think could become a more common practice. There's also the possibility school officials could be charged, too. The prosecutors' moves are setting off a new debate about how to limit mass shooting sprees like this one, and also who is responsible in similar gun violence events. Below, we'll take a look at some reactions from the left and the right, and then my take. All right, first up, we'll start with what the left is saying. So the left is happy that the prosecution is trying a new strategy by charging the parents. They want a message to be sent that parents are responsible, and they to be sent that parents are responsible, and they advocate for laws that ensure people keep their guns in secure places

when they have children in the home. Shannon Watts, the founder of Moms Demand Action for Gun Sense in America, said the charges sent the right message. This is a wake-up call for the gun-owning parents and guardians of the estimated 5.4 million children who live in homes with unsecured firearms, Watts wrote. We must change the conversation in America about school shootings, which have historically focused on reactive ways school officials or police can stop an armed child from opening fire. Instead, we must put proactive policies in place to keep guns away from students and out of schools in the first place. That starts with secure gun storage. Oxford High School had many safety measures in place, a full-time sheriff's deputy, security cameras, and regular active shooter drills.

Teachers also reported the teen to school officials for worrisome behavior, including searching online for ammunition during class and drawing violent, disturbing images of gun violence. Yet all of these measures weren't enough to stop a school shooting because the students still had access to a gun at home. The simple truth is if students didn't have easy access to guns, there would be few, if any, school shootings in America. Only 23 states have some form of secure storage laws on the books. These laws should be non-partisan, non-controversial, and non-political. The state should implement them immediately so that reckless gun owners can be held accountable for their negligence. The Washington Post editorial board said negligent parents should be locked up

too. The morning of the shooting, the suspect's parents were summoned to the school after a teacher found a disturbing note he had drawn, the editorial board said. The school told the parents the boy needed counseling, but the parents did not want their son removed from school, did not ask him if he had the gun with him, and did not search the backpack he brought to the office. It also does not appear that they told school officials they had just purchased a gun for their son. School officials share blame too. Why did they allow the boy back into class? Why did no one search his backpack? the board asked. Prosecutor Karen McDonald also called for strengthening of Michigan gun laws, which currently do not require gun owners to store weapons safely.

A 2018 report on school shootings by the Post's John Woodrow Cox and Stephen Rich found that most of the gunmen, 84 of the 105 cases examined, had obtained their weapons from their homes or those of relatives or friends. In the Los Angeles Times, James Densley and Jillian Peterson wrote about what their research has shown. School shooters are nearly always too young to legally own a weapon or take it outside the home, they said. Of all the common sense gun laws typically proposed after school shootings, universal background checks, extreme risk protection orders, and assault weapons ban, safe storage is the most directly applicable. In our research, around 60% of the 37 guns brought to the scene of the 12 school mass shootings came directly from family members. Only four of the 14

shooters didn't get a gun from home. Proposals requiring school storage at home are generally popular among gun owners and non-gun owners alike. Research shows they can help prevent gun theft, suicides, and accidental shootings in addition to school shootings. One study found that keeping firearms locked up can reduce shootings in the home by 75%. 31 states have child access prevention laws, but only 11 states have any sort of safe storage legislation. Michigan isn't one of them. All right, that's it for what the left is saying, and this is what the right is saying. The right believes the prosecution is overcharging the case. While they condemn the parents, they don't believe their actions are criminal. Many are calling for caution and to wait for more details

to come out. On his website, lawyer Jonathan Turley took a look at the laws in question. The state must prove that the Crumleys caused the death of the deceased victim, that the deceased individual died as a result of their actions by one, intending to kill the victim, two, intending to do great bodily harm to the victim, or three, creating a situation where the risk of great bodily harm or death was very high, knowing that as a result of the defendant's actions, he or she knew that serious harm or death would likely result, Turley wrote. The prosecutors must also show that the defendant caused the death of the victim without justification or lawful excuse. It is obviously the third option

that is likely the basis for these charges. Based on Charles Yu's award-winning book, Interior Chinatown follows the story of Willis Wu, a background character trapped in a police procedural who dreams about a world beyond Chinatown. When he inadvertently becomes a witness to a crime, Willis begins to unravel a criminal web, his family's buried history, and what it feels like to be in the spotlight. Interior Chinatown is streaming November 19th, only on Disney+. The flu remains a serious disease. Last season, over 102,000 influenza cases have been reported across Canada,

which is nearly double the historic average of 52,000 cases. What can you do this flu season? Talk to your pharmacist or doctor about getting a flu shot. Consider FluCellVax Quad and help protect yourself from the flu. It's the first cell-based flu vaccine authorized in Canada for ages six months and older, and it may be available for free in your province. Side effects and allergic reactions can occur, and 100% protection is not guaranteed.

Learn more at flucellvax.ca. The key question is whether this level of negligence is sufficient to create a situation where the risk of great bodily harm or death was very high, knowing that as a result of the defendant's actions, he or she knew that serious harm or death would likely result. The fact that they left the gun in an unlocked drawer would not be sufficient. Unfortunately, that is all too common, and it is not a crime in a state without a child access prevention law. This demands more than simply negligence, but a recklessness that

led to conditions likely to cause such fatalities. In the National Review, Andrew McCarthy said the prosecutor is overcharging the case. To say the parents' actions reflect appalling judgment is an understatement, McCarthy said, but let's take a breath and grasp the legal context. Several states have so-called CAP, child access prevention laws, that make it a crime for adults to allow children to have unsupervised access to firearms. Such laws have repeatedly been proposed in Michigan, but the legislator has opted not to enact them. Moreover, while prosecutors insisted in announcing their involuntary manslaughter charges that the pistol should have been locked away with a safety mechanism clipped in place and the ammunition kept separate, there is no such mandate in state law. And the passion

of anti-gun advocates notwithstanding, if such a law were enacted, it would face stiff constitutional challenges. It is one thing to say that parents were egregiously derelict, just as, for example, store owners are egregiously derelict when they sell to suspicious characters, substances, including explosive powders that can be used to make bombs. But that does not make the parents' conduct a criminal violation, much less make them responsible for homicide, a much more serious crime, even in the form of involuntary manslaughter, than the cap crime that Michigan has refused to codify. In PJ Media, Rick Moran said the parents were charged with, quote, not being able to read their son's mind. Social media posts show that Ethan's parents took him to the gun store and bought the weapon as a Christmas present, Moran wrote. They didn't

lock the gun up. They weren't required to. There are no safe storage laws in Michigan. And they apparently ignored or didn't notice other warning signs exhibited by their son that may have prevented the shootings if they had intervened in some way. James and Jennifer Crumley are not ideal parents, Moran said. In fact, they appear to be horrible, neglectful parents. But the law in this case is not concerned with how good or bad the parents were in raising their son. The law is about whether the Crumleys can be held legally accountable for the deaths of four innocent kids. All right, that is it for the rights take, and that brings us to my take. So first, it's important to say that there is a lot we don't know. If there's one overarching takeaway from the numerous high-profile cases we've watched unfold recently, the Parkland shooting, the Jussie Smollett incident, Kyle Rittenhouse's case, the murder of Ahmaud Arbery, the trial of Derek Chauvin, all of those, it's that our understanding of what happened in the first few

days or even the first few weeks after the event tends to change pretty substantially over time. In this case, there are lots of relevant questions that still need answers. What other signs did the parents get besides the note or the school teacher's call? What else did Ethan's mom say during that now infamous conversation where she says LOL in a text message and says he just has to not get caught searching for ammunition? What responsibility lies with the school administrators, if any. There's also a more charitable reading of the parents here. The father, for example, called 911 when he realized his gun was gone and heard news of the shooting. The mom texted Ethan, imploring him not to do it, apparently presuming he may not have already begun his shooting spree. Were they just trying to cover their tracks?

Or is this proof of something closer to naive and irresponsible parents versus neglectful and dangerous parents? Then there's the larger question of what these charges mean. Evan Bernick wrote a thought-provoking piece in the Washington Post that every left-of-center American would probably want to read. He makes the case that this, quote, extraordinary prosecutorial response, if successful, will inevitably be expanded to be used on black Americans and only further expand our already gigantic prison population. These are all things that are worth chewing on. But then there's the other part of my brain. This is the part that just cannot fathom how so many

danger signals were ignored. The drawings, the pleas for help, the Instagram posts with the gun, the video announcing his intent, the searching for ammunition in class. If someone had written Ethan Crumley's actions into a television script, it probably would have been laughed out of the room for being too heavy-handed, and yet here we are. Equally infuriating are some of the Second Amendment advocates' responses to this. As I've written and said in the past, I personally happen to like guns. I appreciate the importance of the right to bear arms, and I'm generally skeptical of some of the mainstream gun control proposals out there. I've spent a lot of time in rural America especially, and I understand the need for firearms, and I've had plenty of fun shooting guns before. But some of

this stuff is akin to what I wrote about people's responses to COVID-19 and the pandemic, too. You can't refuse to get vaccinated, refuse to wear a mask, refuse to get tested, refuse to social distance, refuse to stay home if you're feeling sick, and then throw your hands up and say your rights are being infringed upon. The gun rights side is doing the exact same thing here, the gun rights version of that. Refusing red flag laws, refusing bans on weapons of war, refusing child access prevention laws, refusing to charge gun manufacturers, refusing gun registry databases, refusing to study gun violence at all, refusing to allow cities like New York to legislate open carry out of existence, and then throwing their hands up and saying their

rights are being violated when parents get charged in a case like this. Even worse, for the gun rights side, every strategy those activists so often point to as reasonable mitigation efforts were in place in this story and have been in place in past mass shooting events. There was a full-time deputy sheriff on campus, the school had drills to respond to a shooting, and the school had security cameras on campus. And yet four kids still died. There has to be some give to common sense. There has to be some middle ground here. Right now, I don't feel like we're close. So will the charges stick? I'm not sure. Frankly, I kind of doubt it. I think, you know, there's a good legal case that the kid

even is being overcharged. He's getting charged with terrorism. The parents are being overcharged by being charged with manslaughter. But again, we need a lot more information. What I am sure of, though, is that we have a problem, a big one, one no other nation really has. And I'm open to some novel ideas about how to address it, even charges like this, especially given how badly we've done up to this point in addressing the issue. So maybe it's more storage laws, maybe it's prosecuting parents, I don't really know, but I am getting quite frustrated with the resistance from many Second Amendment advocates who are basically not presenting any solutions to the problem,

and the ones that they are presenting are now in place and also not really working. All right, that brings us to our question and answer section. Today's question comes from Nathan in San Diego, California. He asks, what is going on with the Senate blocking Biden's nominees? Many ambassadors are being held up. Yes, Nathan, it's a huge problem. I appreciate you noticing. By my count, Biden has only been able to seat ambassadors to Austria, Canada, Israel, Kosovo, Mexico, New Zealand, Singapore, and Turkey. No other recent president has had such an anemic ambassadorship at this point in their presidency. Even Trump, who faced considerable opposition, had 40 ambassadors in place by this point in his presidency, mainly because Democrats believed it was better to have a functioning

foreign diplomacy than completely stonewall an objectionable agenda. Now, Republicans, especially Senators Ted Cruz and Josh Hawley, are doing everything they can to grind Biden's foreign policy to a halt, including stonewalling confirmation of ambassadors, which is supposed to be a fairly uneventful function. Perhaps of ambassadors, which is supposed to be a fairly uneventful function. Perhaps most worrisome is the fact that we have no ambassadors for China or Japan, despite the fact the Senate Foreign Relations Committee approved them both. A small group of GOP senators is preventing a confirmation vote and demanding Biden change course on his policy in the meantime. It's fair to point out that Biden has also been unusually slow in naming

some candidates. Nominations for the United Kingdom, Australia, South Korea, and Russia are still on hold. All of them are extremely important. But can you really blame him? I mean, there doesn't appear to be any point. And even if he were to be nominated, they'd simply be in line behind some 50 others that Senate Republicans are refusing to move forward. My opinion is that governing as an opposition party is part of politics, and I get it. I get stonewalling, I get stopping stuff, I get using tools to object to things. But refusing to play ball, as Republicans are on these picks, is not governing. It's not good for the country, it's not good for us, it's not good for our allies. It only sets a new low for what's acceptable in some kind of

obstructionist behavior in the Senate. Frankly, I find it kind of loathsome and I hope they change course soon. All right, that brings us to our story that matters today. This one is about Adam Mosseri, the head of Instagram, who will testify before Congress on the impact his app has on kids. Republicans and Democrats have found bipartisan joy in questioning the heads of major social media outlets, and Mosseri could be in for a doozy. Numerous stories and research have come out recently about the negative impact Instagram has on the mental health of kids, teens, and even adults. Mosseri announced before the hearing that the app was going to institute a take-a-break feature to alert someone who has been scrolling too long, as well as moving people

off one topic they've been dwelling on for too long. Axios has a great story about this and his testimony and what's expected today. You can find a link to it in the newsletter. All right, that brings us to our numbers section. These are all related to gun issues in the U.S. 89 is the number of instances of gunfire on school grounds between August and October of this year. 33 is the number of instances of gunfire on school grounds during the same period in 2019, the previous high for that time frame. So the number has tripled this year. 31 is the number of states with child access prevention laws. 11 is the number of states with safe storage gun legislation. And 120.5 is the number of firearms per 100 residents in the US.

All right, last but certainly not least is our have a nice day story. This one is a local story that popped up on my radar somehow, but I just thought it was awesome. A miracle baby, quote unquote, in Texas is going home for the holidays after being born 18 weeks early. Jimena JC Macias was due in September, but born on April 29th, weighing just 1 pound and 9 ounces. She was only 11 inches long. Her mother was just 22 weeks pregnant when she went into labor and was told the baby would not survive if she was born this early.

Fortunately Macias was transferred to the level 3 NICU at Memorial Hermann the Woodlands Medical Center where she was put on a ventilator and had an IV placed into her umbilical cord to help keep her alive. Doctors called it a miracle and Macias, now almost seven months old, ended up making it home for Thanksgiving where she'll be able to stay until Christmas while undergoing physical therapy.

KHOU has the story. There's a link to it in today's newsletter. All right, everybody, that's it for the podcast. As always, I appreciate you guys listening. Don't forget, if you want to support this work, throw your weight behind this podcast, you can become a supporter. You can punch to support us monthly for 99 cents or five bucks or $9 a month. There's a link in the episode description. And as always just you know spread the word tell your friends about tangle punch that five star rating do all the normal stuff you do to say you like a podcast it helps more than you know i promise all right

everybody thanks a lot and we'll be back tomorrow peace our newsletter is written by isaac saul edited by bailey saul sean brady ari weitzman and produced in conjunction with tangle's social media manager magdalena bakova who also helped create our logo the podcast is edited by trevor eichhorn and music for the podcast was produced by diet 75 for more from tangle subscribe to our newsletter or check out our content archives at www.readtangle.com. We'll see you next time. Chinatown. When he inadvertently becomes a witness to a crime, Willis begins to unravel a criminal web, his family's buried history, and what it feels like to be in the spotlight. Interior Chinatown is streaming November 19th, only on Disney+. The flu remains a serious disease. Last season, over 102,000 influenza cases have been reported across Canada, which is nearly double the historic

average of 52,000 cases. What can you do this flu season? Talk to your pharmacist or doctor about getting a flu shot. Consider FluCellVax Quad and help protect yourself from the flu. It's the first cell-based flu vaccine authorized in Canada for ages 6 months and older, and it may be available for free in your province. Side effects and allergic reactions can occur, and 100% protection is not guaranteed. Learn more at FluCellVax.ca.